Reason Staff Bitterly Divided on Planned Parenthood Defunding: Podcast

Civil debate, whether on Trump/Russia, gun policy, or fungible abortion funding, begins in the workplace.

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Reason Staff Bitterly Divided on Planned Parenthood Defunding: Podcast

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Is President Donald Trump's plan to enforce a "bright line" separation between Title X funding recipients and even referring to the practice of abortion a good start or a self-defeating political stunt? It depends on who you ask. Including, at least to some degree, within the Reason staff.

On today's Reason Podcast, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, Peter Suderman and yours truly duke it out over the lines between conscientious objection and hypocritical stunt, between government imprimaturs and nonprofit branding, between fungibility and non. The quartet also tangles over Trump/Russia, post-shooting argumentation, and Reason's staff dress codes over the years.

Subscribe, rate, and review our podcast at iTunes. Listen at SoundCloud below:

Audio production by Ian Keyser.

Relevant links from the show:

"Trump Purportedly Planning Grant Ban for Groups That Don't Disavow Abortion: Reason Roundup," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Mississippi Bans Abortions After 15 Weeks, Faces First Legal Challenge Today," by Nick Gillespie

"Why Is Planned Parenthood So Popular? Because Government Thwarts Alternatives," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Why I Am a Pro-Life Libertarian," by Stephanie Slade

"Libertarians Should Look Twice at Planned Parenthood Defunding Efforts," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Abortion & Libertarianism: Nick Gillespie, Ronald Bailey, Mollie Hemingway, & Katherine Mangu-Ward"

"Why Big Government Is Offensive," by Matt Welch

"Why does Trump get away with corruption? Because Bill and Hillary Clinton normalized it," by Josh Barro, Business Insider

"What Can Be Done To Stop School Shootings Without Shredding the Constitution?" by Nick Gillespie

"California Cities Are Free to Regulate Gun Stores Out of Existence," by Declan McCullagh

"2 New Court Decisions Are Quietly Eliminating Californians' Second Amendment Rights," by Declan McCullagh

"New York Officials Weaponize Regulatory Power Against the NRA," by J.D. Tuccille

"New York Politicians Want to Suppress Free Assembly Rights for Gun Rights Supporters," by Brian Doherty

"Tom Wolfe Is Dead but the 'Me Decade' Lives On (and That's a Good Thing)," by Nick Gillespie

"RIP to Tom Wolfe, whom I met only once," by Katherine Mangu-Ward

"Will McCain-Style Conservatism Live On?" by Matt Welch

Don't miss a single Reason Podcast! (Archive here.)

Subscribe at iTunes.

Follow us at SoundCloud.

Subscribe at YouTube.

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Comments

[$park? leftist poser]

I think I see ole TJ's hand sliding up that skirt.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

He had consent.

[$park? leftist poser]

That picture may have been taken 30 seconds before KMW told everyone to leave so she could have some alone time.

[SusanM]

By that smile on TJ, I think it's 30 seconds after.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

He awarded her bronze for coming in third place.

[SusanM]

My, goodness, who was second!

[Agammamon]

She was.

And, like most men, he came in first.

[Nardz]

She didn't
#TJtoo

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[$park? leftist poser]

And did you not invite Robby and Lizzie because you didn't want to end up with an actual hair pulling slap fight?

[colorblindkid]

Did KMW ask for his consent before she sat on his lap?

[JWatts]

I'm doubtful there's a legitimate Libertarian position in favor of Federal money to fund Planned Parenthood.

[Napoleon Bonaparte]

There are no legitimate libertarian positions. You're a libertarian if you identify as a libertarian. With a little imagination, you can even be the Emperor of France. If it's good enough for Reason, surely it's good enough for France!

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

You kind of have a point, though. Who should be the authority on the proper definition of "libertarian"? Are we not opposed to top-down solutions? Let us respect each person's individual definition of what it means to be a libertarian, as long as they are not violating the NAP!

[Harvard]

And you do not think a government hand on your wallet is violating the NAP???

[DavidTaylor]

Is there a legitimate Libertarian position in favor of any federal money to pay for health care?

[Morbo]

No, unless you can conceive of a way for it to be funded entirely voluntarily.

[damikesc]

So, some writers for a Libertarian site OPPOSE the government cutting funding to a quite wealthy "non-profit" group?

Yeah, that makes sense.

[$park? leftist poser]

I think the argument was that the government wasn't cutting spending, they're just not giving it to PP anymore. Or something. See last Friday's Roundup.

[gormadoc]

Yeah, the general pool of grant money doesn't change size, it just changes who it goes to.

[damikesc]

Still do not see why Reason has a problem.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Listen and you'll see that it's mostly Gillespie who seems to have a problem with it.

[SIV]

Listen?

My time is far to valuable to listen. Russia only pays me to read and COMMENT.

[diakznc]

Yes, we are aware that some of the staff are not Libertarians.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Some meaning "almost all".

It's rather amusing though listening to some of them pretend that they just wrap their heads around "Operation Crossfire Hurricane", John Brennan, Christopher Steele, and the dossier of dung. Concerns about the dangers of domestic surveillance are so yesterday's news now.

[$park? leftist poser]

Everybody knows that real libertarians are Republicans.

[John]

I would hope real libertarians were not keen on FBI spying on people

[SIV]

Lol!

The bureaucracy exercises an absolute check and an infinitely weighted balance against the deplorables' misguided electoral whims.

[Rufus The Monocled]

lol.

It's painfully obvious.

[Citizen X - #6]

Reason's staff dress codes over the years.

Is your preferred shorts/backpack/bowtie combo allowed, or not?

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Only with socks and sandals.

[BestUsedCarSales]

They agree on those three. They disagree on whether to do so with suspenders or not.

[Citizen X - #6]

Ok, so add socks, sandals, and suspenders. GILMORE's gonna shit himself until he dies.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Should have brought Stephanie Slate in for this one.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Stephanie Slade. Someday I will turn off autocorrect.

[Eidde]

Stephanie Slade v. ENB would have been interesting.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

And they could have a debate afterwards!

[Rufus The Monocled]

lol.

Jello or mud?

[Eidde]

This is why, for any given party, you're on whatever the opposite is of Virginia Postrel's guest list.

[Citizen X - #6]

Postrel's hired party security has Shoot On Sight orders for any member of the Hit'n'Run comment mob.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

But they only shoot rock salt, and the sting of highly kinetic rock salt turns Crusty on.

[CVR08]

yes available in this site: https://crvscience.com/

[I'm Here, for MOAR Hihn]

I see what you did there

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Reason staff divides on cuck lines. Predictable.

[BestUsedCarSales]

White Cuck Lines is my favorite alt porn series.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Thank you Nick Gillespie for demanding we "stop saying congeal". It's a terrible word.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Fine. You come up with a better way to convince yourself it is time to get up and clean your belly.

[Shirley Knott]

Might as well post video of any family's Thanksgiving Day 'celebrations'.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

@1420: I agree with Nick Gillespie on the gun issue.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I was with him until he threw some shade at Waffle House. In fact, I believe he should be tried for Treason now.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Waffle House food should only be eaten in the shade.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's good whenever. It's good wherever.

[$park? leftist poser]

Would you eat it on a boat?
Would you eat it with a goat?

[BestUsedCarSales]

Yes. And I have once in Macon.

[Citizen X - #6]

Any food consumed in Macon is inevitably eaten in the company of a goat. It is known.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I know. And I almost felt like I was winning on a technicality. But winning is winning.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Where do you think the idea of goat yoga came from? A New Yorker driving through Macon mistook a Waffle House-induced projectile diarrhea pose for downward dog.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

This is where libertarians run into trouble with regular people. I've had people IRL ask me "You're a libertarian? Isn't that like an anarchist?" We need to work hard to fight this misunderstanding.

As libertarians, of course we acknowledge there are some legitimate functions of government. Enforcing national borders is obviously not among them, but funding Planned Parenthood? Heck yes! Accessing abortion care is the second most fundamental human freedom, and PP's federal funding is not even a rounding error in the government's annual budget. It's a net win for freedom if a tiny percentage of taxpayer money goes to supporting the nation's leading provider of high quality reproductive health care.

#StandWithPP

[DavidTaylor]

Open writes "Accessing abortion care is the second most fundamental human freedom,"

But technically federal money doesn't pay for abortions, so the only question is whether the other services provided by PP are worth preserving.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

I'm saying that even if federal funds directly paid for abortions, the correct libertarian position would still be to support giving taxpayer money to PP.

[Libertymike]

OBL, that is amateur hour. You can and have done better.

[Flinch]

Everybody has their two star days. I had one yesterday, making the mistake of writing something before my morning coffee. Since I don't have an editor to save my bacon... I went back to bed.

[Bubba Jones]

I liked it because it was, well, not a parody...

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Weaksauce with weak sauce on top.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Come on! Say "Chinese Room" again!

[BestUsedCarSales]

Getting saucy.

[Praveen R.]

it saves money for the country in the long run to have proper planned parenthood services. Less unwanted babies in dysfunctional situations. Some womens services that they would otherwise not seek.

[Bubba Jones]

They got it backwards. You are supposed to kill the parents and enslave the orphans.

[rbulldog]

With factories and monocles for all.

[EscherEnigma]

You know, most days I read posts by OBL and think "this is too over the top, no one can mistake this for sincerity, it's obviously parody".

And then I read the responses...

[Diane Merriam]

If we could just get everyone to put the /sarc after their comment so the less discerning among us get it. 🙂

[ThomasD]

No

/sarc

[Elias Fakaname]

OBL, that is some damn fine trolling performance art.

[esteve7]

PP funding isn't about some noble goal, it's about punishing your political enemies. It'd be like if I got the government to fund the NRA for it's gun safety programs, because I'd be forcing leftists to fund a group they oppose.

[damikesc]

Well, the NRA has killed way fewer people than PP...

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

If you have information about a murder, the sole reasonable course for a decent adult would be to alert the authorities.

If you do not have information about a murder, the sole decent course would be to stop spouting superstitious nonsense while adults are engaging in reasoned debate.

[Agammamon]

If you have information about a murder, the sole reasonable course for a decent adult would be to alert the authorities.

That kind of depends on the situation surrounding the murder - and whether or not the 'authorities' were the ones who did it in the first place.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

This is "reason."

Adults neither offer nor accept superstition-based argument in reasoned debate.

[Finrod]

That lets you out, leftist.

[Violent Sociopath]

I'm going to take a wild guess that Suderman was enthusiastically in favor of continuing to hand federal money to Planned Parenthood.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Guess again.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm going to guess he somehow ties this debate into star wars.

[Eidde]

Oh, I get it, he *did* guess again!

[John]

Then who was on which side?

[Eidde]

Yeah, only a select few people will listen to the whole podcast.

[John]

They are called masochists

[Citizen X - #6]

When the masochist says "Hurt me," the true sadist says "No."

[Violent Sociopath]

I'm going to take a wild guess that Suderman was enthusiastically in favor of continuing to hand federal money to Planned Parenthood.

[Flinch]

I don't see a need for division: support the choice [keep it legal], but oppose the taxpayer funding - as long as there are people there will be abortions, law or no law. I'm guessing some people forgot who Margaret Sanger really was: a racist, that put forward a template for a silent, slow motion genocide where the vast majority of "clinics" were placed deep in minority neighborhoods because she and her ilk subscribed to dark skin being on par with full on mental retardation. It's a deeply personal decision and it should stay that way. Didn't the progs once give voice to the government "staying out.."?

[Brett Bellmore]

"- as long as there are people there will be abortions, law or no law."

I'm pretty sure the same is true of rape and murder...

[Agammamon]

And the government shouldn't subsidize those either.

[ThomasD]

Well yeah, but if you have to pay for it is it really free?

So much freer to force others to pay for it.

[John's broseph]

How can you possibly make a libertarian argument for pointing a gun at someone and forcing them to give you the money in their wallet? The fact that ~30-40% of the population thinks your forcing them to finance murder is just icing on the cake.

Libertarians have the moral high ground because we are generally logically consistent in our opinions, and we are the least hypocritical in our views.

Libertarian writers who support government funding of something they like, while advocating for the removal of funding for stuff they don't like are not libertarians, they are Republicans and Democrats.

[Harvard]

In Reason's case, mostly Democrats.

[Flinch]

I blame journalism schools. Quit hiring those people as the world doesn't need more minions, and...in most cases, we would be just as weakly served by having an AP feed on tap [it's mostly government bilge], without the middleman trying to convince us they did something other than carry the water.

[John's broseph]

Eh it's more of a republican thing, because Democrats never want to cut any program. Generally there aren't many openly Republican government programs.

Of course Democrats did freak out when the state was giving cash to churches for school related programs.

[Flinch]

If a program begins to produce republican [or independant] voters... you can bet your arse the dems will step up and cut it.

[Brett Bellmore]

Indeed, the only category of illegal alien the previous administration thought worth acting against was boat people from Cuba. Guess how they vote if they get citizenship....

[ThomasD]

Swingsets for religious based schools is clearly wrong use of public monies.

So much better that it goes towards killing the spawn of the underclass.

[Jerryskids]

What exactly is Trump's plan to cut funding for PP? Call them sad losers on Twitter? Bomb the shit out of them and take their oil? Threaten them with sanctions until they make vague promises about talking about considering giving up their nuclear weapons programs? Build a wall around their abortion clinics and make them pay for it? Recycle some old RINO campaign talking points they use every other year to rile up the base? Let me know when I start getting warm.

[John]

Change the regulations the govern the funding to make it impossible for any organization that performs abortions to accept funds

[Jerryskids]

Recycle some old RINO campaign talking points they use every other year to rile up the base it is.

[John]

No that is what he is going to do. It is what it is

[Flinch]

I think the plan is... to get technicians to tweet back so much, they forget to perform half their scheduled abortions on account of being pissed off at him stepping on their racket. The public treasury is a velvet vise as strong as any narcotic: very difficult to put down. It will tell you when to get up, where to go, and when to go to bed.

[Eidde]

Of all possible uses of "government money" (i. e., yours and your grandkids'), I would put paying hired killers to whack babies at priority negative 100.

[Eidde]

(Yes, I know, the money goes into one pocket while they pay for abortions out of the other pocket, OMG that makes so much difference!)

[loveconstitution1789]

I thought Reason was in favor of removing all statues of slave holders?

#musterasehistory

[BestUsedCarSales]

Man, ENB really surprised me on this one. Teach me for being such a fucking bigot.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Man, talk about being a bigot. I meant KMW. I'm straight up just confusing women on the staff.

[Elias Fakaname]

Don't they just end up confused whenever the subject moves from what shade of lipstick to wear, or what flavor of pie to bake the menfolk?

[Rufus The Monocled]

Why is it even a debate?

Let PP have a pledge drive like they do on Vermont PBS if they're so important to people. As we say in Italian dialect 'peesh'a cash'. Fork it over if it matters so much to you. If not, don't look at me.

Why do taxpayers who don't agree with what they do be forced to pay into it? Just like union dues. Coercion is NOT a libertarian principle.

Up here, I use the same argument with the CBC. I don't generally read or listen to the CBC so why should my taxes go to it? Give me a choice.

Really. Is this a libertarian site or is it in name only?

[Rufus The Monocled]

One of the reasons people who think billions in taxes going to the CBC is good is because they 'bind the country together from coast to coast'.

Lol.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

No CBC, no Canada. That would be like not having a Tim Horton's on the corner. Or the sounds of Stompin' Tom Connors going silent.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Well, he is dead.

[SusanM]

Rufus, you mad fool! There would have been no Kids in the Hall!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEnqC1uPu0

[Rufus The Monocled]

I admit they've had some pretty good stuff over the years.

Rex Murphy and TKITH among them.

[Echospinner]

Leaving abortion out of it as no federal funds go there.

Two things planned parenthood provides. STD treatment and contraception. This is done by a mix of funds including government grants.

A libertarian issue is public health funding in general.

If we are talking about that consider tuberculosis for example. I would argue that a legitimate program for prevention and treatment of TB is no different than a fire department. The disease is a direct threat to everyone. I think STDs are no different. There is no way to fight communicable disease without some sort of coordination.

If your house is on fire and it is next to mine the fire is a direct threat to me so I am willing to fund a fire department. Viruses and other communicable diseases are the same thing.

Contraception is a more personal choice. It would take more than I have in word limit to talk about that. It would be great if everyone took personal responsibility for that however that is not reality.

[EscherEnigma]

Leaving abortion out of it as no federal funds go there.

If you leave out abortion, then you leave out the entire reason Trump is tweeting about taking away gov. funding.

And it's not like the funding just goes away if it doesn't go to PP, it goes to someone else.

So the debate isn't "public health funding or not", it's "public health funding for PP or public health funding for someone else that's like PP but doesn't talk about abortion and probably has a religious angle".

[Eidde]

It's between "public health funding" and "funding for Planned Parenthood."

[Elias Fakaname]

Doesn't PP take their cut and hand the rest back to the DNC?

[Echospinner]

No

[Echospinner]

Bill Gates recently was quoted recently that in a conversation with Donald Trump he was asked by Donald three times to explain the difference between HPV and HIV.

"I am a very stable genius".
Donald Trump.

He is neither.

PP does provide public health and is paid for that in part from federal grants. Anyone can go there and get basic GYN treatment (for Trumpists GYN is gynecology, female parts like uterus, vagina, and ovaries, diseases and treatment including surgery thereof, it is a branch of medicine. Takes at least 4 years of post graduate clinical training to even qualify for board exam). .

Once again there is not one federal dime paid to abortion.

I am not in favor of elective abortion. Therefore if contraception can be provided with reasonable expense and proven methods I am all for it.

[Echospinner]

No the funding does not just go somewhere else.

There is a well known hospital institute in my city. Good luck getting an appointment with the OB/GYN group there without top drawer insurance.

[Agammamon]

Given that there are basically *no* STD's that you can catch off a toilet seat and there are several mitigation actions that can be taken to reduce your chance of catching an STD to nil - no, STD prevention is not a public health crisis.

Its a consequence of a set of lifestyle choices. Choosing to sleep around, choosing to do so without using condoms, etc. Others are consequences of illicit drug use. And *those* problems are caused by government efforts to eradicate drug use. So you're not going to convince me that we need to fund efforts to manage Hepatitis when its spread is mostly due to the money I've been forced to give to fund efforts to prevent users from accessing clean syringes that directly lead to syringe sharing and the spread of blood-borne diseases among users. Its paying the government to mitigate a government screwup.

The certainly are not in the same class as communicable diseases like TB, the Flu, or Ebola.

[Diane Merriam]

It's not that there are more or fewer mass school shootings, it's that the number killed in each one is going up. And that *is* a matter of "competition" with previous shooters. Many of them even refer to previous shootings and their desire to kill even more. If an incident only has two or three killed, the national media barely even cover it. If they want the "fame," to make their grievances and identity known by everyone, they need to kill a lot of people.

Call them all John Does. Use the standard silhouette picture. No, we can't *force* the media to do so, but it would be a big step in the right direction to the extent it can be done.

[JacobsHayek]

Exactly! I don't think the "crime is overall down" statistical argument really works anymore as there are definitely more fatalities in each mass shooting and more instances of aspirationial shooters specifically at schools. I think Peter's argument for mutually agreed-upon radio silence was a good one.

[Eidde]

JEFFERSON: "Ho, ho, ho, what do *you* want for Christmas? I already know what *I* want."

[AlmightyJB]

Fuck you, cut spending.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It was very open-minded to invite the local chapters of Libertarians For Government Micromanagement Of Clinics and Libertarians For Government Authoritarianism To Flatter Superstition to participate in the discussion!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It was very open-minded to invite the local chapters of Libertarians For Government Micromanagement Of Clinics and Libertarians For Government Authoritarianism To Flatter Superstition to participate in the discussion!

[Sevo]

"It was very open-minded to invite the local chapters of Libertarians For Government Micromanagement Of Clinics..."

It's not surprising you misspelled "Buy Your Own Damn Contraceptives".
You're sort of a fucking ignoramus about stuff like that. And a bunch of other stuff, too.

[Elias Fakaname]

So what about non religious people who are against abortion on a scientific basis? Eh, Arty?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

There are a few authoritarians whose position on this issue has not been shaped by childish gullibility. So what?

[Finrod]

Stop being so hard on yourself.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

So where's the transcript? Come on REASON... get with the program!

[Agammamon]

I'm honestly confused as to how the Reason staff could be bitterly divided over defunding PP.

If the divide were 'there are other 'charities' that deserve to have their funding cut *first* - but they all need to have their funding cut' . . . maybe.

Because, in my view, this is just a *good start*. Now move on to something else.

How about this Progs and SJW's - now its your turn to pick something dear to to the yokels. After all, *its only fair* (snicker). You lost Planned Parenthood, take something away from the cousin-fuckers!

[Brett Bellmore]

No need to be confused. Reason has been overtaken by the march through the institutions. (Which must be nearly complete, to have bothered with Reason.)

At least half the staff aren't really libertarians anymore. They're lefties who like pretending they're libertarians.

[Barry Gold]

I'm not willing to sit through a voice-speed podcast. If what you have to say is worthwhile, put it in print or on a webpage and I'll read it. And maybe comment on it.