Officers Spend Year Busting Ginseng Diggers (Don't Cops Have Better Things to Do?!)

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Officers Spend Year Busting Ginseng Diggers (Don't Cops Have Better Things to Do?!)

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What's worthy of a yearlong investigation involving 15 officers? Tracking down a serial killer? Busting a human trafficking ring? How about arresting ginseng diggers?

State officers in West Virginia proudly posed next to 190 pounds of the seized root, which is coveted in Asia for its purported healing qualities. Cops also came across $30,000 in cash, which was funneled into law enforcement coffers.

Eleven men were arrested for shoveling up out-of-season ginseng. First-time offenders face fines, and repeat offenders could spend up to six months behind bars.

In other West Virginia news, criminals wanted for child porn, sexual assault, and malicious wounding are still at large.

1 minute, 48 seconds.

Follow the show on Twitter (@DontCops), and submit your nominees for next month.

"Don't Cops Have Better Things to Do?" is written and directed by Ted Balaker (@tedbalaker). Produced and edited by Matt Edwards (@MattChrisEd). Music by audionautix.com and "The Contessa" is by Maurice and the Beejays (Magnatune Records).

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Comments

[derpules]

Nothing left to cut.

[antisocial-ist]

Eleven men were arrested for shoveling up out-of-season ginseng.

What the fuck does this even mean?
Is ginseng like deer, you can't kill it until the right time of year to ensure enough baby ginsengs for the next season?

[WTF]

They were caught poaching roots upon the King's land. They shall be dealt with harshly.

[Adans smith]

Yes,they have a season,and large areas are owned by the state or feds,

[IceTrey]

That's the time they have put on berries which must be planted at the site of the harvest.

[Zeb]

Ginseng roots take a long time to grow, so a good ginseng patch can easily be destroyed by uncareful harvesting. Whether it should be a crime to take it from public lands is a valid question, but there are pretty rational reasons behind the rules. As usual, private property right would probably be the best solution to the problems.

[sarcasmic]

Freedom means asking permission and obeying orders. This is certainly the land of the free.

[Adans smith]

Having rafted and fished in southern WV I can tell you these people do what they can to live\,Hunt sang,rattle snakes and shoot a deer when they need meat,Nice folks really.Much of the area is national forest,so you can't use it for logging,mining ect.They do what they can.By the way,great white water.

[OneOut]

What is a sang and how is it hunted?

[Adans smith]

slang there for ginseng,and by walking through the woods.Haven't spent much time around hill folk huh?

[RealCrankyYankee]

I just learned what "hunting sang" is from reading Robert Morgan's novel "Gap Creek". Great book!

[Bryan C]

Serfs, living at the pleasure of their feudal lords.

[Bryan C]

I mean that as an indictment of the government, not as a slur against the folks who are smothered under it.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

And considering how they've been treated by various "Progressive" governments, it astonishes me they don't shoot lawman on sight.

[Purple People Eater]

I live in WV and anytime WV makes national news it's never for a good thing. There's been 3 or 4 dead body's found lately and yet the cops are hunting ginseng differs. God help us.

[Purple People Eater]

*diggers

[Aresen]

WTF? A ban on ginseng? Why?

There are literally thousands of acres of (legal) ginseng farms in the British Columbia interior. It is a huge cash crop here.

[sarcasmic]

It's not banned. You just have to ask permission first, and then harvest it only when they tell you to. Freedom.

[IceTrey]

You don't need a permit to dig ginseng.

[Zeb]

It's a ban on harvesting wild ginseng at the wrong time of year because if it is not done properly it doesn't grow back. I'm not approving of the arrests or making it a crime, but it is not an arbitrary rule. I think that a lot of people in Asia who will pay a lot more for wild American ginseng, creating big incentives for this kind of harvesting. It's sort of like the market in tiger penis or rhino horn or whatever. And as with overhunting of big mammals, property rights are probably the best solution to the problem.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Does the law apply to private property?

Who does the crop on private property belong to, the property owner or the state?

If I don't manage my wheat crop properly it doesn't grow back (as well). Do I need the state to provide regulation as to how I manage my crop? And should I pay them a little sumthin sumthin for the privilege?

You can make an argument that the wildlife on private property belongs to everyone as they can move. Far as I can tell Ginseng doesn't migrate.

Richards said illegal diggers are "killing the ginseng population" and hurting the efforts of legal diggers who rely on the plant for income.

There is your answer.

[The Original Jason]

If I don't manage my wheat crop properly it doesn't grow back (as well). Do I need the state to provide regulation as to how I manage my crop?

Yes.

[Patrick Smash]

In WV, if *wild* ginseng is growing on your property, you are bound by the season restrictions, but you can harvest it so long as you get a permit (or you can sell the rights to someone with a permit). The permit process did not look hard to satisfy.

If you want to plant ginseng on your own property, you have to get it inspected to confirm that there is no wild ginseng there already. After that confirmation, you can plant and harvest just like any other crop.

[Brandon]

Heroes. History Channel-watching heroes.

[OneOut]

Was this a Dunphy led operation ?

[Swiss Servator, CH yeah!]

Appalachian Dunphy

[Invisible Finger]

Inbred Dunphy.

I realize that may be redundant.

[Roger the Shrubber]

What is the inflated street value of that haul? Looks to be at least $5M.

[Bob G]

The information is good and timely, but it's time to retire the FauxBoCop.

[pronomian]

They were after the money and used the ginseng as an excuse to steal it. I would bet a dollar to donuts, pun intended, if civil forfeiture laws weren't in place they wouldn't have wasted their time.

[toadboy65]

This may be a regional problem, but it is a serious one. Ginseng is a high dollar crop, and these are people who sneak onto land they do not own, and steal not only the mature ginseng, as well as the plants that might not be ready to harvest for another three years. One year I had 2500 ginseng plants stolen from our farm. It is hard to get the stuff to grow at all, and it takes years to mature. This is serious crime, with real money at risk. That being said, the poachers know that they will be shot if caught, so they are often armed and very willing to shoot anyone stumbling across them while they are sneaking around stealing. I had a group of them shoot at me on my own property while my toddler was in the truck with me. I had not seen them there until they fired. The shot went over our heads, but I will never know if they aimed to kill us.

[toadboy65]

sorry for the grammar mistake.

[TongueWagger]

Thanks toad boy for the other side of this.

[Mark22]

You're wrong; you are confabulating what you think the article is about, as opposed to what it is actually about. What you describe would be trespassing and/or theft, and would be prosecuted as such.

The article is about digging Ginseng out of season in WV. You also can't grow, sell, or possess Ginseng without a permit, even on your own property.

The relevant regulations are described here:

http://www.wvforestry.com/gins.....ll=ginseng

There is no valid public interest served by these regulations. Harvesting from public or private lands without permission already falls under generic trespassing laws and resource extraction laws. The Ginseng-specific laws are probably an attempt at rent seeking by established growers--people like you.

[toadboy65]

I did not know about the West Virgina laws. I am in North Carolina. However, I think we are talking about the same basic group of people. And I am not rent seeking. I just want these people to stop sneaking onto my property and stealing my crops.

[Mark22]

However, I think we are talking about the same basic group of people.

No, we are not talking about the same group of people. There is no indication that these people trespassed.

And I am not rent seeking. I just want these people to stop sneaking onto my property and stealing my crops.

I pointed out that the law was likely passed by WV Ginseng farmers as a form of rent seeking, and that you are a Ginseng farmer. That is not an accusation of rent seeking against you personally.

The article is a legitimate complaint about stupid legislation and government overreach.

[Patrick Smash]

Maybe you should be more careful about throwing around accusations, especially in a situation you know very little about.

[kbolino]

Yeah, accusing people who grew a crop on their own land of being armed robbers is quite the uniformed accusation.

[Patrick Smash]

They weren't on their own land and they didn't plant the crops they were digging up. The factophobia around here is spreading like Ebola.

[kbolino]

They weren't on their own land and they didn't plant the crops they were digging up.

Indeed, I am quite phobic of "facts" you pulled out of your ass.

[toadboy65]

There is nothing in the article to suggest that they grew the ginseng on their own land. If they had, they could have sold it legally. I also does not say that all or most of the ginseng came from public lands. In fact, they are not saying where it came from, only that it was dug out of season. My personal experience is that ginseng poachers are dangerous criminals who seek the roots anywhere they can find them. The original article notes that the officers seized illegal firearms from some of the culprits.

[kbolino]

There is nothing in the article to suggest that they grew the ginseng on their own land.

Nor is there anything to suggest that it was not grown on their own land. Nobody bothered to investigate the source of the ginseng as far as I can tell. The only substantiable allegation is that the ginseng was harvested out of season.

If they had, they could have sold it legally.

Actually, the provenance of the ginseng appears to be irrelevant. All that matters, according to the article, is the condition of the root and when it is sold.

In fact, they are not saying where it came from, only that it was dug out of season.

Indeed, so making further accusations is not justified.

My personal experience is that ginseng poachers are dangerous criminals who seek the roots anywhere they can find them.

Armed robbery and trespass are indeed crimes, and no one here is contesting their justified illegality.

The original article notes that the officers seized illegal firearms from some of the culprits.

Since that falls into the same territory of "not asking permission", it is an irrelevant detail.

[Mark22]

There is nothing in the article to suggest that they grew the ginseng on their own land. If they had, they could have sold it legally.

That is incorrect. Why don't you read the regulations and the article instead of continuing to confabulate?

[Patrick Smash]

The public interest served by these laws is preventing a tragedy of the commons scenario. From the linked article (which again, the Reason blogger apparently failed to read):

The Division of Forestry regulates harvesting of the plant. To maintain American ginseng's sustainability, Forestry requires that all plants dug are at least 5 years old and have at least three prongs. When a plant is harvested, all of its red berries, which indicate that the plant is ready to germinate, must be planted into the soil where it was found. This ensures that the plant will reproduce.

Looking at the seized ginseng, Officer Joshua Toner said, "Every single root you see here will not reproduce. It was dug prior to the season."

Toner said he attended a tri-state meeting on ginseng and learned that, "if it is dug at the current rate, in about 25 years, there may not be any more wild American ginseng."

And yes, you can grow ginseng on your own property so long as there is no wild ginseng already there. You can sell and possess ginseng out of season if you have a weight receipt. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good diatribe.

[kbolino]

In other words, it's your property, except all the ways in which it's not.

[Mark22]

The public interest served by these laws is preventing a tragedy of the commons scenario.

"Tragedy of the commons" is not a sound economic principle and cannot be a justification for economic policy.

So, you're bullshitting: instead of coming up with a sound justification, you're just pulling some fancy sounding phrase out of your ass.

And yes, you can grow ginseng on your own property so long as there is no wild ginseng already there. You can sell and possess ginseng out of season if you have a weight receipt.

I.e. you cannot grow it, possess it, or sell it without government permission, for no good reason.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good diatribe.

You should take that to heart.

[IceTrey]

Well at least if they are busy with this they won't be out shooting unarmed teenagers.

[Paper Wasp]

It's really going to put the cops behind on their dog- and unarmed-teenager-shooting quota for the year. They shall have to redouble their efforts to catch up.

[Heroic Mulatto]

*turns to the class*

So, which formal fallacy of quantificational logic is Moses' statement an example of?

Is it:

A.) Existential Fallacy
B.) Inappropriate Generalization
C.) Illicit Conversion
D.) Quantifier Shift

[Notorious G.K.C.]

E) Being a total asshole

[Heroic Mulatto]

Is that the upside down "A"-thingy or the upside down "E"-thingy?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

How did you know my "E" was upside down? Most people can't tell.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I've read enough Camus.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I'll pretend to understand the joke, so you won't think I'm a hick.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Here.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Oh, I see - existentialism, existential qualifier!

I'm beginning to have flashbacks to my logic class in college.

[Heroic Mulatto]

This is the only logic class you need.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Just a heads-up, you must have linked to the wrong video. There weren't any women shaking their asses, there was just this old guy talking about cribbage.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Here's some ass shaking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olcEhDSd2iA

[Heroic Mulatto]

Poetry.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

E) Being an asshole

[Homple]

Musical interlude: "Ginseng Sullivan" by Norman Blake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJuhaNY9fqk

[Francisco d'Anconia]

WV has a Ginseng digging season?

What's next a fucking season? Perhaps a permit to fuck with stiff fines for anyone caught fucking out of season? Or a baseball season and permit? A car washing season? A wood chopping season?

WITHOUT SUCH RESTRICTIONS, THERE WOULD BE ANARCHY!

[JeremyR]

No, without these regulations, there would be no ginseng left.

When was the last time you saw a buffalo?

Deer were almost exterminated in the same way, the only reason they are still around is because they are managed by the state conservation department.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You mean a bison? I saw one, in the form of steaks, the last time I went to the supermarket.

Deer were almost exterminated in the same way, the only reason they are still around is because they are managed by the state conservation department.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Purple People Eater]

There's a herd of bison on Barker's Ridge.

[Purple People Eater]

Also, during WW2 deer were a rare sight in WV and people brought them in as pets and then the were allowed to breed all over the place, and now we have an over abundance of deer. WV car insurance is so high because of the huge number of deer accidents on roadways. It has also been found that deer flourish in suburban areas, which also contributed to their population explosion. Kill all the deer.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

When was the last time you saw a buffalo?

Last week.

As for Ginseng...who fucking cares?

[Heroic Mulatto]

I like how the work of private outdoorsmen conservation groups in the 1930's automatically becomes property of state conservation departments.

[croaker]

That's what happens when you don't shoot politicians and overbearing government officials when they step out of line.

You think we'd have driver's licenses and license plates on cars if we'd stood up and dealt with the idiots when they came up with this shit?

[Patrick Smash]

Probably because the private outdoorsmen wanted the stuff they conserved to last even if their group didn't.

[kbolino]

Is that supposed to make some kind of sense?

[Patrick Smash]

The people who want to buy it and the people who want to sell it. You know, the stuff that libertarians usually want to enable.

[kbolino]

The people who want to buy it and the people who want to sell it

So, not the WV cops discussed in the article?

[DesigNate]

You mean the thing that prevents the commons tragedy?

[Patrick Smash]

When was the last time you saw a dodo, Tasmanian tiger, passenger pigeon, quagga, Caribbean monk seal, Carolina parakeet, sea mink, Bubal hartebeest, etc.

The bison did almost go extinct and today's bison population has extremely limited genetic diversity.

And of course, plants can't migrate and hide like animals can.

[Homple]

Why should I care to see any of these creatures at all?

[Mark22]

And of course, plants can't migrate and hide like animals can.

Of course, plants also don't need a lot of space in order to survive. Regulating the harvesting and sale over an entire state to preserve one insignificant plant species would be total overkill even if the plant were important and even if it were at significant risk.

[John C. Randolph]

When was the last time you saw a buffalo?

Bad example. Over-hunting of buffalo was a government policy to starve the plains indians. Tax money was spent to make it happen.

-jcr

[Purple People Eater]

There should be a required permit for fucking season, and the fat nasty WV welfare whores can't get one.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I ain't saying he's a ginseng digger
But he keeps boasting that his hoe is bigger

[Agammamon]

Ah lawdy, reposting stories only a day after their original publication.

This would have never happened when Postrel was editor.

[C. Anacreon]

You just want me to drink.

[cavalier973]

OT:

The Ninth Circuit issued an order on May 13 allowing same-sex marriages to commence in Idaho on Oct. 15. Two days later ? the folks at the Hitching Post received a telephone call.

A man had called to inquire about a same-sex wedding ceremony. The Hitching Post declined ? putting them in violation of the law.

[cavalier973]

Serves the bigots right. How dare they try to claim they have a right to their own labor, and as a consequence, the right to own and use property.

Thank Darwin we still live in a country where Christian Bigots can be forced to embrace marriage equality by threatening their livelihood.

[Mark22]

Well, as long as atheists can be forced to embrace Christianity by threatening their livelihood, I don't see why Christians shouldn't be forced to embrace marriage equality by threatening their livelihood.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Has it ever been argued that the Civil Rights Act violates 14A?

[Patrick Smash]

So the only tangible effect of legalizing gay marriage has been to force businesses to either (a) do something that violates their beliefs, (b) go out of business, or (c) get fined by the government.

Way to go, cosmotarians. Most important libertarian issue of our times my ass.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Perhaps if you Socons hadn't put all your effort into stopping the inevitable and instead concentrated on something worthwhile, like freedom of association, you MIGHT have actually been able to stop things like this. Instead, you died on the wrong fucking hill.

Sucks to be you.

[cavalier973]

We should also not resist the inevitable expansion of the Welfare/Warfare State, the demolition of the U.S. economy, and the spread of Ebola.

Let's be realists, here...

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Yes, because gay marriage is EXACTLY LIKE EBOLA.

It's things like that that kind of make you people look crazy, you know?

[cavalier973]

Were you born this stupid, or do you just work really, really hard at it?

[Patrick Smash]

Right, anti-discrimination laws are totally the fault of social conservatives' inaction!

Cosmotarians, on the other hand, are never responsible for the easily foreseeable real-world effects of their dogmatic crusades. When your next crusade comes to fruition and we have open borders and amnesty plus citizenship, with all the extra welfare spending and leftist Democrat electoral dominance for generations, you'll be complaining about how social conservatives should have ended the welfare state and made themselves more appealing to third-world peasants.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Right, anti-discrimination laws are totally the fault of social conservatives' inaction!

More or less, yes. If you had gotten in early--say, before the courts had started striking down the bans--and said that you'd allow secular marriages so long as people who didn't want anything to do with them didn't have to, you MIGHT have gotten a compromise.

Instead, you tried to command the tide and just got wet.

[Patrick Smash]

No flerking way would the other side have settled for a compromise.

And from a tactical POV, they shouldn't have -- they held all the cards, an activist judiciary, a dishonorable administration that refused to defend the laws it was constitutionally bound to execute, and a smattering of cosmotarian puppets who cared far less about freedom of association themselves than getting govt pieces of paper and pats on the head for gay paramours.

I do have to admit that the cosmos really didn't matter in the end, they have so little power and influence, but watching them strut about and preen with every judiciary revocation of popular will did get annoying. You can only take listening to The Toady for so long.

[kbolino]

a smattering of cosmotarian puppets

The secret libertarian cabal that rules the world!

[kbolino]

Most important libertarian issue of our times my ass.

The strawmen in your head have some seriously messed up priorities, I agree.

[MJGreen]

Yes... the only tangible effect has been what's been foisted upon a few businesses...

[Patrick Smash]

Name another tangible effect.

No, a piece of paper from the state doesn't count.

[Another Phil]

Yeah, no. You don't get to arbitrarily dictate what "counts."

[Francisco d'Anconia]

So the only tangible effect of legalizing gay marriage has been to force businesses to either (a) do something that violates their beliefs, (b) go out of business, or (c) get fined by the government.

No. The primary tangible effect is that homosexuals are equal under the law.

Forcing private citizens to act against their conscience is an abomination and an entirely different issue.

Conflating the two issues is mendacious and you know it.

[Homple]

Predicting expected consequences and seeing predictions come true doesn't strike me as mendacious conflation. But that's just me.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yes, it's just you.

You want to deny people their liberty simply because a separate, government caused, negative consequence may result?

Morality check.

Hows abouts we do the right thing and then address the abomination which is protected classes?

[Zeb]

Yes, that's the thing. Having protected classes and public accommodation laws is the problem and that problem exists whether or not there is gay marriage. It is not a new problem created by gay marriage. Anti-discrimination laws can apply to gay people even without gay marriage.

[Patrick Smash]

Anti-discrimination laws can apply to gay people even without gay marriage.

There's a big difference between being forced to sell a lawnmower to a person who will go home and do things you disapprove of, or being forced to hire an accountant who will go home and do things you disapprove of, versus being forced to participate or host a ceremony which is celebrating and normalizing what you disapprove of.

All anti-private discrimination laws are bad, but the effect of SSM legalization is that people can now be forced to participate in something they consider immoral.

[Homple]

Gays are now a protected class. Gay marriage without gays as a protected class would be fine with me.

We're never going to get rid of protected classes, you know. Libertarians can help get pot legalized, maybe, but protected classes are here to stay despite Reason's rhetoric.

[Patrick Smash]

Gay marriage has zilch to do with liberty.

No one was being coerced by the previously existing marriage laws.

[kbolino]

No one was being coerced by the previously existing marriage laws.

People opposed to miscegenation don't exist in your world?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

No one was being coerced by the previously existing marriage laws.

derp

[kbolino]

Predicting expected consequences and seeing predictions come true doesn't strike me as mendacious conflation.

Indeed, passing constitutional amendments that say:

Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions. This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage.

has the predictable consequence of incensing and mobilizing the opposition.

[Homple]

Results of making gays a protected class under public accommodations laws were perfectly predictable, irrespective of proposed amendments or anything else.

When a group gets the power to push people around (as gays given protected class status plus public accommodation laws) people of that group will start pushing people around.

[kbolino]

When a group gets the power to push people around (as gays given protected class status plus public accommodation laws) people of that group will start pushing people around.

So let me get this straight (no pun intended): your takeaway from me citing a (Virginia) constitutional amendment preventing the courts from recognizing any relationship outside of one man-one woman marriage is an illustration of how gays have too much power?

[Homple]

They have no more power than any other protected class. Whether that's too much, I couldn't say. But like any protected class, they can use the government to push people around. So they're pissed at a failed state constitutional amendment, that doesn't mean that they should sic the courts on someone who would prefer with whom to associate or not.

[kbolino]

So in other words the aggression of some is excusable but the aggression of others is not?

[Patrick Smash]

The primary tangible effect is that homosexuals are equal under the law.

Assuming for sake of argument that's actually a change from what the law said before, it's still not a tangible effect.

[Another Phil]

Cool story, bro!

[kbolino]

If state licensed marriage has no "tangible effects" then why do so many man/woman-pairs seek it out?

[Patrick Smash]

Alcohol, parental nagging, gold digging, societal opprobrium for leaving one's spouse.

Mostly alcohol.

[kbolino]

Mostly alcohol.

I, uh, I'm at a lack for counterexamples, here.

Joking aside, there are tangible effects (not all positive!) to marriage with respect to taxes, inheritance, insurance, property ownership, medical treatment, etc.

In theory, most of these effects (everything except taxes, really) can be emulated through contracts and other legal arrangements, but those arrangements are not always respected.

The Virginia amendment I cited below was a particularly egregious example, but it outlawed any form of relationship except one man-one woman marriage. That is both an hypocrisy (instead of abolishing state-sanctioned marriage, it embraced and strengthened it) and a grave injustice (forbidding voluntary association the protection of contracts).

[kbolino]

The Virginia amendment I cited above...

[Mark22]

Well, that's the same choice atheists have faced since the Civil Rights Act.

If religious groups want freedom of association for themselves, they should be willing to grant the same right to others. So far, the position of Christian conservatives on gay marriage has been hypocritical; that's not the way to defend individual liberties.

[dlwickham]

These cops work for the state Department of Natural Resources. Their job is to enforce the laws that deal with that department and not crimes like child porn, sexual assault, etc.

[Carl ?s the level]

And god knows they could never be switched to a more useful department!

[SIV]

Why do you hate game wardens?

We're not abolishing public lands anytime soon so until we do there is going to be a system regulating and policing the taking of resources from the commons.

[kbolino]

We're not abolishing public lands anytime soon so until we do there is going to be a system regulating and policing the taking of resources from the commons.

In other words, a system for ensuring that only the king's men can partake in "the taking of resources from the commons".

[SIV]

The hillbillies who wait for the official start of ginseng season, or hunting season, or release under and oversized fish are "the king's men"? I think almost everyone but you would call them "law abiding citizens".

[kbolino]

Who owns "public" property?

[Patrick Smash]

It is managed by the govt on behalf of the people.

[kbolino]

It is managed by the govt on behalf of the people.

What people?

[Zeb]

Well, they'd probably do something horrible in a more useful department too. I'm no big fan of this or a lot of other things that police do. But the argument that there are more important crimes they could be worrying about is kind of silly. Should the police spend no time investigating burglaries until all murders, rapes and assaults have been solved? The question should be about the validity of the law at all.

[Patrick Smash]

It is funny to see Reason implying that crime could be totally taken care of if we just had more police working on it.

Don't worry, tomorrow the cognitive dissonance will do its work and they'll be back to implying that all cops are good for is using puppies for target practice.

[kbolino]

So, in one case, Reason wants cops to carry out actual police work, and in the other case, Reason wants cops to carry out actual police work.

Why, the inconsistency is baffling!

[Patrick Smash]

State officers in West Virginia proudly posed next to 190 pounds of the seized root, which is coveted in Asia for its purported healing qualities. Cops also came across $30,000 in cash, which was funneled into law enforcement coffers.

That's $30K to help with hunting down the kiddie porners and malicious wounders, no? Why the long face, Reason?

[kbolino]

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization, and if the police steal $30k from you, well clearly civilization got more expensive!

[The Bearded Hobbit]

Slightly OT:

We recently had a large pot bust in my area. We're a medpot state and don't have enough for the patients registered but the cops destroyed thousands of plants anyway, I guess because that's what they do.

http://www.kob.com/article/sto.....EM5mFeEzd4

The best part of this? I have been told that a group on local kids knew the back way into the area and harvested many pounds before the cops could get to them.

Mountain kids: is there anything they can't do?

... Hobbit

[rogerfgay]

The Chinese Mafia has also been hauling away fruits and mushrooms from Swedish public land for many years. Sweden supports a large amount of public land, especially in urban areas that are broken up by natural wooded areas. These yield large amounts of berries (especially blue berries, but also others) and mushrooms. Swedes have enjoyed going out and plucking enough for themselves, and mostly leaving the rest for others to enjoy. But as I've personally seen around the Stockholm area, Chinese work crews (likely illegal) show up early and work like a locust swarm, reducing the annual crops to broken twigs. It's a large and serious organized criminal problem and well worth the attention of police.

[Ted S.]

In other words, the Tragedy of the Commons.

[Patrick Smash]

Maybe the cosmotarians should have fought for getting rid of the national forests before bitching about enforcement of sustainable digging laws.

[kbolino]

I think you've twisted the word "cosmotarian" beyond any recognizable meaning at this point.

[AlmightyJB]

I think the point is that you have a year long investigation involving 15 cops to bust people on misdeamers. It would seem to be an inefficient use of recources. It's one thing to catch them in the normal course of a day but this does seem like they probably have at least twice the number of cops they need if they gave that much time on their hands.

[Patrick Smash]

Maybe they shouldn't be misdemeanors. $30K is not petty theft.

[kbolino]

$30K is not petty theft.

Yet the cops who stole it seem to be celebrating, not preparing for their upcoming prison sentences.

[SIV]

I'd like to see us have so few criminal laws that cops would go after petty crimes. The ginseng poachers are threatening a communally held resource and stealing from those who follow the perfectly reasonable-sounding rules.

[kbolino]

It is amazing how you can throw so many words together without bothering to address the logical contradiction of communal ownership and theft.

[kbolino]

Furthermore, the linked article does not make it clear where in fact the ginseng came from. It apparently doesn't matter to the law whether the ginseng was grown on your own property or not, and so of course the cops and the reporters didn't bother to find out, either.

[Mildred111]

my co-worker's mother makes $71 /hr on the laptop . She has been unemployed for 9 months but last month her payment was $17334 just working on the laptop for a few hours. published here

http://shorx.com/onlineatm

[Mildred111]

my co-worker's mother makes $71 /hr on the laptop . She has been unemployed for 9 months but last month her payment was $17334 just working on the laptop for a few hours. published here

http://shorx.com/onlineatm