The 5 Best Libertarian TV Shows Ever
After a long day of Bitcoin mining, even libertarians like to kick back with the intoxicant of their choice and turn on the TV.
Here are five television shows all libertarians should watch.
The Prisoner (1967-1968). The Prisoner follows a British secret agent who wants to walk away from it all but ends up a captive of the very government he once served. Late '60s psychedelia. Paranoia. Long philosophical disquistions about the meaning of life. Series finale set to the Beatles "All You Need is Love." It's all here and the charming insistence that "I am not a number, I am a free man."
House of Cards (2013-present). What more do you have to say about a political soap opera in which a disgruntled congressman lies, cheats, and murders his way to the Oval Office in just two seasons? This Netflix original series is a bracing and long-overdue response to decades of treacly depictions of politicians, journalists, activists, and crony capitalists as motivated only by principle and idealism.
Penn & Teller: Bullshit! (2003-2010). Hosted by the most memorable duo since Cain and Abel, Bullshit! trained a skeptical eye on everything from bottled water and feng shui to the war on drugs and the death penalty. Never slow to fly their libertarian freak flag, Penn and Teller didn't just debunk popular wisdom, they showed us all how to think more critically, especially about the things we cherish most dearly.
The Wire (2002-2008). Widely considered one of the greatest TV shows of all time, this Baltimore-based drama has been called a visual novel that explores and analyzes class, race, and politics from multiple viewpoints and perspectives. Different seasons keyed in on different institutions—schools, police, the media—and the ways in power was exercised and abused, often in the name of helping the underprivileged.
South Park (1997-present). Now in its 18th foul-mouthed season, South Park has lampooned and satirized everything from pompous Hollywood celebrities to Al Gore's super-cereal campaign against global warming to murderous Islamic terrorists. Along the way, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have taught us all real media literacy by showing us how to identify and spot phony philosophizing, moral panics, and self-interested crusaders a mile way.
About 3 minutes.
Written and narrated by Nick Gillespie. Shot and edited by Meredith Bragg.
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The original Scooby Doo series taught kids that when shit got weird they would have to take care of things themselves, without the help of grown ups. And all the paranormal bullshit going on around them was just some guy in a suit.
Don't stop there- you were getting to the best part.
The costumed antagonist was always trying to exploit fear and ignorance to further his/her agenda, and were usually harmless. Authority figures were often portrayed as no help, either comically incompetent or involved in the conspiracy.
I think the "meddling kids" may have rubbed off on the generation of kids who grew up watching the show in the 70s-80s.
And don't forget that the key meddling kids were the stoner and the lesbian.
Scooby doo fondlez broccolo dear... hate to G ya.
I fear that many watching House of Cards miss the point the way so many did with Scarface. But those who secretly lust for power love HoC because they like to picture themselves as two steps ahead of everyone and competent.
I nominate Veep as the perfect counterpoint to HoC. Veep is quite realistic and very funny. It's an excellent libertarian show.
"Veep" would get honorable mention, in my book. It's a little too preachy about all the liberal hot-button issues, although it compensates by making Selina Meyer look like an incompetent hack when talking about them. But it also strikes me as one of those shows that will eventually go off the rails when its writers decide to make the preaching more overt and serious because there are some issues "too important" to joke about.
I would also rate "Parks and Recreation" above "Veep". The most centered character in the show is Ron Swanson, and although he's a parody of libertarianism, the writers generally show respect to the character's core values instead of going for a cheap caricature. Also, all of the politicians involved are horrible people, clueless incompetents, or some combination.
Preachy? Preachy about what? She is weakly pro-choice (happy to ban it after 20 weeks), and that's about it.
And the entire fourth season should disqualify P&R.
Fifth season is when I quit watching. Fourth was still excellent, IMO...fifth is when they neutered Ron, to my great annoyance.
Veep is a documentary.
If you like Veep you should watch The Thick of It by the same creator. It's probably more cynical about politics than even Veep.
The Malcom Tucker character Aline makes it worth watching.
Fuckity-bye
If the House of Cards remake (original my ass) gets a nod, then what about the original which was much, much better?
Yes, Minister might be even more libertarian, since it argues that the civil service runs everything and therefore implies that voting is pointless.
It also shows the elected officials only want to talk about reform, once in they want nothing of substance to change.
Absolutely agree. I was thinking the same thing. You come away from the American House of Cards thinking politicians are ambitious pricks. You come away from the BBC House of Cards thinking politicians are a Shakespearean evil.
I think if Nick and Meredith and their respective partners were in a group sex orgy with either the creators of South Park or the characters of South Park- which isn't terribly verboten considering the characters of SP are mental figments sketched and thrust upon the screens of time. That might be truly off-galaxy.
Actually, SP creators, if you created a show with Nick and Meredith and their respective partners fucking in an orgy of Libertarian lust with yourselves joining in and THEN playing a simple game of Trouble afterward I'd probably call that the best TV ever made whilst all other media would collapse due to pure and unadulterated righteous horror.
not gonna be shaking your hand if we ever meet.
Blackjack...? Way fucking worse than fucking in an orgy, dummy.
Dude, just a little joke.
Btw, I've done both and I'm undecided, still. I guess I'll have to try more, just to see.
I can't help but notice that at least two of these shows are not libertarian. At least, while they have things in common with the libertarian agenda, the creators certainly wouldn't call themselves libertarian.
It was only within the last year that David Simon was ranting against capitalism and saying Marx was right about a few things:
http://www.theguardian.com/wor.....ricas-wire
So, redistribution controlled by top men. Not only do the audiences miss the point of their own art. Sometimes, so do the creators themselves.
Joss Whedon for some reason can't help but create essentially Libertarian characters.
The man himself seems anything but Libertarian though.
I would have put Firefly and Yes, Minister higher than some of those.
I would put Firefly first....
Yeah, I'm wondering how the hell it didn't even get on the list...
Too subtle, but great libertarian fare.
This is anything but subtle.
Then there's this: http://youtu.be/1VR3Av9qfZc
I think this may be THE best Libertarian dialog on Firefly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehNW5ZpoK60
I expected Firefly on the list too.
The Wire is not libertarian at all. Just because Simon was willing to point to the futility of the drug war or the corruption of unions and newspapers doesn't make it so. Firefly is a much more libertarian themed show than almost anything in your list. Even South Park tends to be more "common sense" than libertarian.
The Wire was unintentionally libertarian, except for that horrible last season. I think David Simon meant to give off one message about needing to reform government at the city level, but put across a very different message that overly powerful city government is inherently corrupt and dysfunctional.
Simon wrote a libertarian show in spite of his intentions and personal hostility towards libertarians.
UCrawford, I agree completely.
I would have thought The Wire Libertarian if I had not seen the commentary and interviews. Now it's just ironic.
It's still awesome. I just pretend that David Simon and his asshole opinions don't exist and take the show at face value. 🙂
Ed Burns is more libertarian than David Simon because Ed Burns was a cop and a teacher, Simon was a newspaper writer. No surprise the weakest season was the "newspaper" season.
I give David Simon credit for knowing he needs a writing partner to tone down the soap box-iness.
South Park is more common sense than Libertarianism? South Park is a fucking volcano of goddamn shit shat from the ass of the galaxy god designed to make some dudes getting drunk and coked up with a huge team of writers quite wealthy whereupon these moral geniuses make for the New York hills and create babies and wives and picnics after the many millions.
Best way ever to get rich.
All must grant that at a stroke of a keyboard you create quite the vivid imagery.
I'd say that was a stroke *at* a keyboard, myself.
Definitely stroking *something* at the keyboard...
Like Tony with his 'Progressive Men of 2014 calendar'. You know he wants to be the meat in a Chuck Schumer/ Bernie Sanders sandwich.
The Wire is pretty much public choice theory in action. It's unintentionally libertarian.
Ditto for Deadwood, which should be on the top of every list. Fucking good show.
Absolutely. Deadwood beats onything on this list. Bullshit is libertarian, but it isn't that great a show.
The Wire is a great show, but it's mostly Simon pointing out "THIS system sucks" rather than "SYSTEMS suck."
Not only that, I would argue the first 50 or so episodes of Homicide: Life on The Streets was more libertarian precisely because the preachiness wasn't there.
What's the difference between common sense and Libertarian?
lol that was the sound of poor David Simon having a stroke
(loved The Wire!)
It's funny the lengths libertarians will go to to convince themselves that theirs isn't a fringe ideology, with little support from either the ruling class or the general population. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
You haven't spent much time here have you...
I think it's funny how people hostile to libertarians ignore the fact that in the last decade "libertarian" has evolved from a word that the average person has never heard into something referenced in almost every single political analysis.
Ten years ago, people gave me quizzical looks when I said I was a libertarian. Now, about a third of the people I meet self-identify as that. Perhaps you should stop getting your impressions of libertarianism from newspapers and magazines and move into the 21st century.
Now, about a third of the people I meet self-identify as that.
Another resident troll above. Not the guy I'm quoting (UCrawford).
I strongly disagree with the idea of a 'libertarian moment.' I would love for it to be true, but everything I see around me tells me otherwise.
People may self-identify as libertarians, but a lot of those are just pissed off Republicans who will revert to being statist assholes when team red has the power.
I don't think there's any kind of cohesive libertarian "movement" either. Actually, that kind of goes against the inherent nature of libertarianism. I just see a lot more people who realize that there are options besides Republican/conservative and Democrat/liberal because a lot of people realize there are things they like and despise about those party affiliation and ideologies.
They may not be "pure" libertarian, but they're more open to the idea that it's wrong for politicians to make a lot of those choices for us. And I think that's what we should care about.
I and most of those I know are registered Republican who are well aware of the sickness in the party. I most certainly am not going back. But then I've never been any kind of statist.
I have been a grass roots organizer for the LP for 30 plus years in over 30 states. I would say that most of the self-identifying libertarians are more former populist than republican. Most of the disagreements I encounter with self identified libertarians on facebook is over immigration and the minimum wage. Sad that they haven't got a better grasp of the non-aggression principle and apply it consistently but hopefully that will come.
Agreed.
One third? Where the hell do you live?
He couldn't possibly live in as enlightened an area as you do, I'm sure.
Recently? Midwest, Southwest, Pacific Northwest, and Appalachians. I've traveled and lived in a lot of places the last decade. Also, I work around military people all day (about half of whom immediately identify themselves as libertarian when they discuss politics in the office).
I won't pretend that my sample is anything other than anecdotal, but I meet a hell of a lot more people who like libertarianism now than I did 10 years ago.
UCrawford, I have been doing libertarian outreach for over 30 years, registering voters, running for office and putting libertarians on the ballot. I agree whole heartedly.
Ten years ago, people gave me quizzical looks when I said I was a libertarian. Now, about a third of the people I meet self-identify as that
I was reading the first sentence, and I truly expected the next one to be "Now, about a third of them put themselves between me and their children."
Are you a hammer or nail, bitch?
I'm a fucking chain saw asshole!!!
or maybe a philips head screw driver. i'm never too clear on these tool analogies...
I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!
Ruling class...RULING CLASS?! What the fuck country do we live in that there is a ruling class? Oh right, a country that was once free, racing as fast as it can towards slavery....You go ahead and pledge yourself to your ruling class, I'll fight to regain my freedom.
The Wire was great, but the premise of its title is dated. Remember how the judge had to be persuaded to issue a wiretap warrant? How quaint! NSA don't need no steeenking warrants, and will offer parallel construction for your drug cases.
I didn't particularly care for The Prisoner when it came out, and a year ago I watched an episode on YouTube and still thought it was a snooze.
I don't know what I'd replace it with. Firefly was anti-state in a silly sort of way, and fairly entertaining, but the crew were more like pirates rather than libertarians.
South Park and Penn & Teller are pretty much pure libertarian. House of Cards just shows how vile the state is, along with the lobbyist and non-profit parasites. It doesn't appeal only to libertarians as an anti-state story; statists probably watch it as something to aspire to.
Upon reading the comments, for its hilarious ridicule of the state, Yes, Minister should replace The Prisoner. Best British comedy ever. (I'm not a Monty Python fan.)
Anyone who thinks The Prisoner sucks is beyond my understanding.
+6
Amen Remnant Psyche. I don't want to know anybody who thinks "The Prisoner" sucks. That is the ultimate libertarian show and I don't freakin' care what anybody says.
It doesn't appeal only to libertarians as an anti-state story; statists probably watch it as something to aspire to.
This. People watch these shows, but just like with the creators...they miss the point. Most people watch and admire the 'villains' or just find it entertaining.
I have met many smug individuals who watch the wire and consider themselves realists. Yet, none of that is reflected when they go to the voting box. They are never able to make the simple connection. They view corruption in the abstract. When it comes to the particulars or individuals, they are delusional.
Penn and Teller are pure Libby-otarian but South Park? Really? I love you, Cato, but suck my dick. South Park is a multi-year dick spew of a calculated read on 8 million people in NYC.
South Park has NOTHING to do with anything beyond NYC. Even tho their shows desperately claim otherwise.
South Park deserves kudos for fucking with the gentry for a decade. That's all. Other than this they are brilliant dicks I rarely watch.
Wow, you must be really drunk. Not only are you incoherent, but South Park is about NYC? Show us on the doll where Trey, Matt, and Manhattan touched you.
South Park is about the sweet LOVELY town the creature Episiarch grew up in folks...
Just trying to help, old timer.
Get drunker, it seems to be something you're good at. Typing coherent insults...not so much.
What the fuck is Episiarch. Is that a condition where my face wants to suck more clits?
Your an idiot. Your comments and trolling aren't even funny and their useless. Now I know your pissed because your mom took away your video game privileges and now your stuck in your basement for a week but don't take it out on everybody else. You should've went to bed when your mom told you to, you could of avoided that.
Stupid is often confused with drunk, but while drunk is a temporary condition Cyborg will always be Cyborg.
I'll always want to put you on my sandwich, broseph.
Drunk Agile Cyborg is much more entertaining than the trolls:
Tony
PB
Dunphy
Michael Hihn
(The above list is not comprehensive.)
More than Mary? Is it Mary?
The nonsensical insults, interspersed with "honey" and "sweetie", as well as the obsessive replying sure sound like Mary.
Craiginmass is the worst.
Actually, that Rendell guy is pretty hilarious. I enjoy him because his writing is so illiterate as to be funny.
I like how josh comes in 6 or more hours after the thread is dead to post
The thread isn't dead
until the Kochtopus 1%
kills it with chlorine gas
in order to reap obscene profits
(parody?)
thread ash goes for 36 dollars a bushel
I wish we could go back to the old days when we traded a bushel of thread ash for a barrel of oil.
That is because out of all of them, he is the true believer.
If you give The Prisoner a chance as a whole set (the entire series isn't that long), you'll get the killer subtext. Seeing random episodes on PBS, I didn't get it... but watching it from beginning to end was very satisfying...
They just don't write like that anymore.
Frankly, nobody except McGoohan and the staff of "The Prisoner" wrote like that ever. It's a show that you can't really compare to anything else...or at least no other show I can think of.
Give the single season of Nowhere Man a look. Inspired by The Prisoner, but, in the creator's own words (paraphrased), "Where The Prisoner was more concerned with the intellectual, Nowhere Man is more concerned with the emotional."
Not every episode is a winner, but it's one of my all-time favorites.
The Prisoner is a good show, but it's mostly what was going on in McGoohan's head as he was trying unsuccessfully to get out of continuing the Danger Man series.
statists probably watch it as something to aspire to.
My understanding is they do. It's apparently quite popular with the beltway crowd.
When have judges ever needed to be persuaded to issue warrants?
I can't believe The Drew Carey Show isn't on the list.
And if you want a brutally libertarian, non-American, show, then you should watch "The New Statesman", starring the late Rik Mayall. Any show in which the primary character is a politician named Alan B'Stard is not a love note about the benevolence and wisdom of government.
I just fell asleep bitch
Sorry, were you making a point or did you learn a new word from your older brother and decided to post it on the Internet with mommy and daddy's computer?
I think UCrawford needs a fucking Sharpie stuck in his dome. That's all.
Since that'll never happen, and because I hate to see a Sharpie go to waste, feel free to jam it up your own ass in the meantime. It'll be a more productive activity than your writing,
Off you go, troll.
My sentiments exactly, UC. Agile reminds of that annoying kid in school who thought he was funny and laughed at his own jokes but everybody else thought he was stupid, embarrassing and annoying. Looks like he hasn't figured out yet that we aren't laughing and only he is laughing at his own lame jokes.
my co-worker's mother makes $79 /hour on the internet . She has been out of work for 9 months but last month her check was $18246 just working on the internet for a few hours. over at this website....
???? http://www.netjob70.com
She must give a mean blowjob.
You ever had a mean blowjob, bro from the sea? A true teether?...
I love Crawford now so.... Bro... yo don't want fucking teeth grinding on your dickhead... I mean, it's ok if your a punk... Punks tolerate buses dropped on their heads.. . I can't do that...
However.... teeth can SlIDe across your dickhead but you don't want the munCH. brutal... Like being killed...
Agile you sound like a expert in that, have alot of experience don't you?
I am so happy you included "The Prisoner" from so long ago. Being a "Free Man" is the ultimate rejoinder to all those that try to rule with an iron fist. It shows the fight that one individual must bear to become "free".
I wear a hat that says "Live Free or Die" and my avatar on twitter is "Diogenes" looking for an honest person.
Succinctly wrapping up how I feel. All the rest are very good on their own.
I do have that fondness for "The Prisoner".
Unfortunately, the people of Britain didn't agree and the unhappiness with the finale of that show basically drove Patrick McGoohan out of England.
The only thing you needed from the finale was the final scene. That said it all. Brilliant.
He was Canadian anyway.
I agree, however, that the show is excellent.
Aren't most private eye shows at least somewhat libertarian in that it shows that there is an alternative to relying on a government service for a critical task?
If the government was willing or, most usually, able you would not need the private dick.
Well, probably not Magnum P.I. (much as I loved it), as the main character life was built off of sponging from a wealthy benefactor.
On a different note, as I've gotten older and re-watched the show, the character of Higgins has just gotten better and better. John Hillerman was extremely underrated as an actor (especially since he's from Texas, not Britain).
Strange. I thought you were an old stamp trashed by millenials deserving of a head-stomping until...
Higgins has just gotten better and better.
Now I just want to love you.
Hells Angels Forever. Those guys are anarchists.
The boy who eats bologna posts about anarchists. God you've moved beyond cutting lawns, ol jackie baba.
Why don't you try using some of that agility to move yourself into a better state of mind?
How about you just fucking create the world's next jesus, Blackie jack? How about THAT ol' fukin thread lord?
You just need to live for the LORD man. Yo simple silly putty man. I'm OFF to thjings whipppy and whappy
I love the (almost) ending scene with All You Need Is Love being played while a gunfight goes on between the escape prisoners and the guards.
I'd vote for Blake's 7.
Good one. It's right behind the Prisoner in my list. (it's a short list. 🙂 heh)
Bought myself a region-free DVD player to get the box set of the show from Australia.
ANY man who loves Higgins on that strange show called Mustachiod Hunk of gorgeous Sellek with helicopters We ALL Wish to be is a raw and simple man... A man capable of grasping the mountains of Nietzsche and Kant. A true nasty gent.
The Life & Times of Tim
I find most people could watch a completely libertarian program and never actual make the connection to state and corruption. Most people just treat it as entertainment and don't really see past that to put it into the context of the real world. I know people who watch all of these shows and are not libertarian.
I also have a theory that most people have grown up with a limitless government as the default and just regard it as "the way it is". They don't spend much time thinking about politics and so only think in terms of TOP.MEN.
Well... yes. darling... they are called Republican and Democrats. booooobooooooooooooboooooooooo.....
Cyborg, while you are still barely awake, make sure to drink several big glassfuls of water and take a couple of aspirin before you pass out, or you're going to have a killer hangover in the morning. You're probably not going to remember much of tonight, which is probably for the best; I wouldn't recommend re-reading your posts tomorrow.
OT: Rolling Stone writes a Koch hit piece.
Expect the usual blathering of idiots. My favorite bit, from the facebook comments: "Like the idiots who yell about Soros. He may donate, but he seems to have little influence and that benign. He's not out to fucking destroy the republic like these two sociopaths"
Are you sure there's no such thing as Peak Derp?
peak derp sucks Cowboy cock
Soros "seems to have little influence"? This is hilarious from a leftist. I guarantee you that commenter hates Citizens United because "money isn't speech" and money corrupts politics and that low-budget Hillary movie was an outrageous attempt to influence an election, and yet the hundreds of millions of dollars Soros spend on political causes has "little influence"? LOL
You can split libertarian shows into two categories. Shows like Firefly and The Prisoner that directly espouse libertarian viewpoints. And shows like the Wire and Yes, Minister that merely critique conventional/non-libertarian viewpoints.
"Subsidy is for art, for culture. It is not to be given to what the people want! It is for what the people don't want but ought to have!" -Sir Humphrey
So. the worlds oldest fake bitchin slut on the hard stone wants to suck Treyarch dick?
I'd add Firefly to that list.
Ironically, David Simon, as great a writer as he happens to be, is a braindead leftist, politically.
I visited his blog as one of the countless "fake" Obama administration scandals was heating up... I think it was the IRS stuff.
What was he righteously blogging about, speaking truth to power? Chris Christie interfering with traffic. "Oh, he knew. Make no mistake: he knew." No sense of perspective or shame, apparently.
It was personally depressing to suddenly wonder if The Wire might have come not from an objective look at the "War on Drugs" but from a place of white guilt.
The Wire might have come not from an objective look at the "War on Drugs" but from a place of white guilt.
yup.. you fukin slut. Whites might be the worst losers known to evilotion.
Ah, that's cute! "Evilution."
That WAS intentional, right? I assume so, as terribly clever as you've proven yourself to be on so many occasions.
(Blow me, statist.)
Actually, he said "evilotion". It's what your orphan child labor rubs on you to make you more of a plutocrat.
I thought it was a hand cream that gave you a rash.
The Wire might have come not from an objective look at the "War on Drugs" but from a place of white guilt.
David Simon's a hardcore Jewish leftist. I suspect "white guilt" is the last thing he's projecting.
And if I can put on my Television Hipster Fedora for a minute here: this list is a joke without Nowhere Man, especially since The Prisoner was mentioned.
Oh, Nowhere Man? You probably haven't heard of it... [/hipster]
(Long live Larry Hertzog.)
That was Bruce Greenwood as the photographer with the photograph the government was looking for, right? It aired late night Sunday where I am.
Yes, indeed! Right after Voyager, on a fledgling UPN. (But don't hold that against the show.)
Even when the occasional weak episode came up, Greenwood's performance really sold it. He's so underappreciated as an actor
He's talented, but his presence in a show is a kiss of death. Once he shows up in the cast, cancellation's soon to follow.
Even more potent than the infamous Ted McGinley.
Once you recognise that an 'objective' look at something as complex as the War on Drugs is a purely theoretical thing, it makes more sense.
Nobody, and certainly not anybody who has lived their years in any society could ever objectively look at, or portray the WOD objectively. Tge realization is liberating because it's much easier to address one's own 'lens' if one recognises that truly being able to grasp anything like the WOD without one is impossible.
Implicit in libertarianism is accepting that, in Russel's words we ALL look at the world thusly.
I have heard many self-satisfied smug libertarians make claims that they of course are able to do they unlike progs, neocons, etc etc just like some people in those groups will make the same claim
Simon started out as a true activist journalist - inspired by Watergate and eventually became pragmatic and embraced the idea tgst journalists are largely ineffective.
His time embedded with the cops helped develop his pragmatism and IMO THAT is why he us so good - his pragmatism
His hardcore socialism etc don't hurt him at all imnsho
Total respect for his talent
You're still doing this whole thing? C'mon.
Ceaselessly making politically correct, ass-covering, obvious statements such as, "Of course, NOBODY is actually objective on any subject," is the purview of weirdos trying frantically to avoid "triggering" others. You'll excuse me if I refrain from participation. I'll just keep typing as if the people I'm talking to understand the sometimes imprecise nature of casual human communication.
I agree that Simon's politics don't hurt his shows. I'm watching Homicide: Life on the Street now. I thought I couldn't stand watching another police procedural, but it's SO damn good.
Again, most of the libertarian-ness of the show comes from Ed Burns. David Simon is mostly a cop-groupie, the kind of statist that ruined newspapers.
I'd suggest Jeopardy!, or perhaps even better, Sale of the Century. On both shows, you get where you are based on sheer merit. There's almost no luck (with the exception of the "Fame Game" board on SotC), and no partner to screw things up for you.
SotC also has the added benefit of rampant consumerism and showing what prices would be like if the Federal Reserve hadn't inflated the money supply to beyond worthless for a hundred years. That and a history lesson on how the prices of technology have come down quite severely and we're all much more prosperous for it. GSN ran an episode from 1985 the other day offering a computer that normally cost $1799 for the low Sale of the Century price of only 15 dollars. I shudder to think how powerless that computer was.
Ted, are you drinking or enjoying a burger?
I had a cup of coffee and a bowl of mint chocolate chip ice cream. You got a problem with that?
The Twilight Zone.
They didn't leave it to an all powerful federal government, they left it to Beaver.
WTF is going on here?
Is Mary posting as Agile Cyborg?
On meth, yes.
I'm surprised that Black Sails did not make the list.
I watched one episode of that and thought, "meh".
Too bad, too.
It gets better in the third episode.
Oh Nick. By now you should know that the 'intoxicant of our choice' is all of the intoxicants.
All the intoxicants, Nick. Don't make me choose.
Looking upthread, Agile Cyborg appears to have actually done all of the intoxicants. Point proven.
And then disappeared. I think her 105lb frame just couldn't take it.
105? C'mon, son!
No Firefly/Serenity? Come on, that series has a bloody scene where the bad guy literally argues mass murder for the Greater Good and new Soviet Man. He seems to be a bit more self aware that sociopaths in reality though.
The Operative: "We're making a better world. All of them, better worlds."
The Operative: It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Mal: So me and mine gotta lay down and die so you can live in your better world?
Dr. Caron: There's thirty million people here, and they just let themselves die.
[Everyone jumps at the sound of a brutal attack in the distance.]
Dr. Caron: I have to be quick! About a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to the Pax. Their aggressor response increased beyond madness. They have become...
[A crash is heard in the background, now closer]
Dr. Caron: [sobs] Well, they've killed most of us. And not just killed? they've done things...
Wash: [Realizes] Reavers... They made them.
Dr. Caron: I won't live to report this, but people have to know. We meant it for the best... to make people safer.
Mal: "A year from now, ten, they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people?better. And I do not hold to that. "
Book: A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned.
Simon: Now you're quoting the Captain.
That was the movie, not the tv show.
Even young River got it: People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right.
The UK's Peep Show deserves a mention for this quote alone:
Mark Corrigan: And listen, while we're at it, there are systems for a reason in this world, economic stability, interest rates, growth. It's not all a conspiracy to keep you in little boxes, alright? It's only the miracle of consumer capitalism that means you're not lying in your own shit, dying at 43 with rotten teeth... and a little pill with a chicken on it is not going to change that. Now come on, fuck off.
Tell me more about this show?
One of my favorite comedies. Available on Netflix.
- Every camera shot, excluding scene establishing shots, is from a character's P.O.V.
- The audience "peeps" into the minds of the two main characters, hearing what they think (which is, of course, often at odds with what they say).
- Everyone in the show is a bad person, a la Seinfeld.
Mark Corrigan is the stodgy, more conservative character. His friend, Jeremy, is a "free spirit" slacker-type. It's a convention that works well.
Good summary.
It's one of my favorite comedies, too. In fact, I sort of think it's a model of what a great comedy should be. Most sitcoms have stock characters who change according to the writer's whims and plotlines. But if your characters' personalities are the foundations of the stories, like with Peep Show, you have something really special.
No Little House on the Prairie?
Jeez, I'm old.
That show supported intellectual property. So no.
OK, I'm a regular around here at times, but not all the time, so this may be a stupid question, but is Agile Cyborg always like this? That's some really sustained and insane trolling. Not boring contrarian trolling like Tony, or high energy snark like Shriek, but something crazier. Or pretending to be crazier. All over the map, baiting and insulting. It's reminding a bit of Mary, as if she were trying to disguise her writing style. And maybe drunk or high.
Sheesh. All I wanted was the last thread for an off-topic post, and I encounter all that....
It's not just this thread.
Seems reasonable in some threads, similarly obnoxious in others. No idea what's going on. Foreign substances likely involved.
I would definitely remove House of Cards (or at least recognize the British original, for crying out loud). Veep and, I'd say, Deadwood deserve a spot. Firefly deserves an honorable mention (Serenity is totes libertarian, but the show only had 13 episodes and couldn't delve all that deeply in its anti-authoritarian attitude).
As was said above, most of these shows are just saying "it sucks when the wrong people are in charge". The point of libertarianism/limited govt in general is that the wrong people are always going to be in charge and you have to have a system that limits the amount of damage they can do.
I notice you guys didn't put "The Independents" on this list either -- are you admitting it's low quality programming or opining that Matt Welch isn't a real libertarian? My list:
1. Firefly
2. The A-Team
3. Shark Tank
4. The Dukes of Hazzard
5. South Park
Sadly, "The Independents" IS low-quality programming; and Matt Welch is NOT a real libertarian (neither is Kennedy).
Add to your list:
BONANZA
GUNSMOKE
I used to like the old Dennis Miller show on HBO, the one where he'd do one of those "I don't want to go off on a rant here, but..." in the first segment. I recall listening to him and telling my wife, "listen to what he's saying -- he's clearly a libertarian!"
I think he may be more of a conservative than that now (probably due to hanging around O'Reilly so much), but the other day on his radio show he described himself as an Objectivist. I don't know if he was joking or serious.
He's subject to the "Dennis Miller ratio".
Only one person in a million would get that reference!
OT: So apparently the Ebola guy was vomiting all over the place as he was put in the ambulance. (Remember, he'd been misdiagnosed by the hospital, which had been recently trained about Ebola, and was sent on his way with antibiotics.)
Even better, he's unemployed, single, from a nation with a very high overstay rate, was living in Ghana and not Liberia, and was a first-time traveler to the US "visiting his sister." That adds up to a neon sign that says "I will overstay and become yet another illegal alien," so why in heck was this guy given a visa to come here at all, much less from a country with an Ebola epidemic?
And what's the total bill for his treatment, and who's paying it? Haha, I know that: the taxpayers. And his treatment? Six figures already, at least. Heck, one night in intensive care is like $25,000. The full isolation biohazard version could be five times that per day, easy. Maybe C. Anacreon or another doctor can tell us.
Oh yeah, no reason to be concerned, folks. Nothing to see here. Don't listen to those silly worriers. Top Men are in charge and will be keeping us safe.
We're going to need a bigger fence...
Yup. Given that much of the world is devolving into tribes and religious wars, it would behoove us to remember some proven classics, like quarantines for epidemics.
Yeah, I know they're old-fashioned restrictions on liberty, and also very politically incorrect. ("Disparate impact! Racism! Blaming the victims!") But I am less interested in ideology when it contradicts common sense.
And no, that doesn't make me a "utilitarian."
Yes, it does...but I prefer to call it pragmatic.
I'm a libertarian because I believe it generates the best long-term outcomes for the most people. I don't do it because I think it generates the best outcomes for everyone (which would make me a utopian), because I think rights are God-given (because there is no God), or because I see it as part of some inviolable moral code.
If somebody could demonstrate that communism or socialism provides better outcomes than libertarianism, I'd probably move towards communism or socialism. Since communism and socialism lead to starvation and mass murder, however, I think that people who defend communism and socialism are both stupid and assholes, as well as shitty utilitarians.
Regarding the cost, I've noticed the full bill for just simple hospital stays on medical-surgical floors is already $25K/day (though this is usually done because the insurance company will have a contract saying they will pay 40% of the billed cost up to $10K, so what do you know? 40% of the billed cost amazingly works out to $10K!). You are correct, they probably have this guy in his own closed-off wing or ward, so you can pick just about whatever number you'd like and you would probably be close.
Typically there are a number of patients in quarantine/isolation in the hospital, that in and of itself is not unusual, and it just means that the patient's situation has led to special precautions for people entering and exiting the room (must wear gown, gloves, mask, etc.) Sometimes there is a "negative pressure" room where all the air gets sucked out rather than being able to circulate within the hospital.
Most commonly you see isolation for MRSA cases (methicillin-resistant staph aureus infections), but it looks like Ebola will be a whole different situation. Hopefully we won't have to see for ourselves.
Thanks for the info. Given the many thousands of people who die from hospital-acquired infections every year, I am not confident about their ability to handle an Ebola outbreak.
I spent three days in ICU recently
The bill JUST FOR MEDICATION was over 20k
Of course insurance pays a fraction of that based on certain formulas and the hospital accepts
One benefit of policework at least in my department is the department pays 100% of the premium and it's really bitchen insurance
E.g. Coverage for 60 massages per year
Hey we are worth it!
Smooches
Haven't you heard?
Reason has determined that borders are evil. EVIL! Ebola Man has a Reason given right to be here. If you want to keep him out, you're worse than Hitler.
I think a much more interesting discussion would be about a list of the best libertarian movies. That way I can recommend wonderful obscurities like The Promoter (1952).
Tonight's South Park is "Gluten Free Ebola".
Watching it now. Love the title.
"Well I've been gluten-free for about a day now, and I feel great."
"Get that second-hand gluten away from me!"
OK, it just got great.
"We are the USDA. Without us, people would be eating dirt and chairs!"
I love the high-tech war room. "It's dinner time on the East coast in ten minutes, people!"
If that line didn't prove they are libertarians, nothing will.
Just another hero cop and I realise that is redundant saving a life
Prior to the body Camera Era we so rarely would hear of these stories although those of us working the streets see it happen often
Booyah body cameras because now with the video, departments will be more likely to issue press releases and the press will be more likely to report them
And hey with the Internet we no longer need the press we can report stuff in our own sites, with video, something that some forward thinking agencies are now doing
http://www.policeone.com/polic.....om-bridge/
That'll get him a couple of 'five free dog shootings' and 'taze a person when they're down' coupons with the department.
Don't you have peoples dogs to shoot, motorists to harass, or something ?
Love it! Just last night, great libertarian quote from South Park.
"We're the USDA! If it wasn't for us, people would be eating dirt and chairs!"
So glad I'm not eating dirt and chairs. Thank you, USDA!
Can't believe no one mentioned "The Thunderbirds!"
What's more libertarian than a privately owned and operated international rescue service saving lives and property when governments prove incapable of doing even their basic functions of maintaining public safety?
I am sure Jesse Walker has some problems with the episode "Ricochet" where Jeff Tracy makes some intemperate remarks about pirate broadcasters.
Yes, this might well be the most libertarian show ever... a non-state armed paramilitary philanthropic rescue organisation supported by a capitalist business!
I wouldn't go so far as to call Babylon 5 wholly libertarian, but it had a very strong resistance-to-government streak. Also some good moments about weaseling press, weapon ownership, religious freedom, and petty bureaucrats. Now if only it hadn't had the anti-drug "dust" nonsense in the early episodes.
The saving grace to the "dust" nonsense is that it was ultimately shown to be a government (in the form of Psi Corps) plot.
Southpark will always be king.
http://www.Anon-Planet.tk
You missed Firefly.
Holy crap. I created this account just so I could point this out.
Then I went to leave a comment, and the first thing I see is your comment. For a second, I wondered whether or not I had already created an account and left this comment...
Twilight zone...
Honorable Mentions
The Incredible Hulk (1977 - 1982): A brilliant scientist in the private sector has to go on the run from the government, who consider him a threat in spite of the fact that he repeatedly stops to right wrongs everywhere he goes.
Doctor Who (1963 - 1989 ; 1996 ; 2005 - Present): A Time Lord from Gallifrey steals some high-tech equipment from his government in order to explore the universe, picking up human companions and righting many wrongs along the way. At one point his people confined him to Earth and he was coerced into working for the British government agency U.N.I.T. where he continued to confront self-appointed authority figures with his intelligence, charm, and trusty screwdriver. As longtime fan and TV host Craig Ferguson eloquently put it, "it's all about the triumph of intellect and romance over brute force and cynicism."
Firefly (2002 ; feature film in 2005): A ragtag crew on a rundown spaceship take whatever jobs they can get, legal or not, in order to keep flying and stay beyond the reach of an oppressive interplanetary government. When they discover the Alliance's dirtiest of dirty secrets, they decide to stop running and confront tyranny head-on. As Captain Mal says, "I aim to misbehave."
Batman (1966 - 1968): When anything more serious than a traffic violation plagues Gotham City, the police department is completely helpless and has only one choice left: Call an anonymous private citizen to save the day for them.
how could you leave "firefly" off this list?
not shiny!
Blake's 7. Especially the first few episodes.
Spoiler Alert!
I watched that show once. "I wonder what this is."
Weird show. Everyone is getting killed. What the hell is going on?
Turns out it was the last show.
My argument would be that the Wire was no more Libertarian than a Holder/Yoo/Cheney/Obama golf foursome.
Recall in Season 4 when Carcetti was elected and it was a new day! Things were getting better. MORE POLICE getting paid to do "policing."
But then accounting dysfunction prompted Carcetti to pull the plug. No more money available for the activist Carcetti administration to set things right. And without the government money? All goes back to its primeval condition of rampant fuckitude.
During the leadup to Season 5 there was some sort of "making of" special where some sort of educrat/urban dem machine type in the real Baltimore was on and on and on about how we needed more INVESTMENT to fix the City. This woman was just on and on and on and on about it. I got the sense from the interview that she and DS were pretty tight too.
I almost think that to the extent the Wire had an overall message it was this. Also the port Union. Their entire path to salvation was to bribe enough legislators to turn on the money faucet for a grain pier and dredging. Again - salvation of the working class via big government spending.
Like many of his loony tunes political orientation, I suspect David Simon has never thought this out as a coherent whole. He is just a disparate collection of far-left cause celebres.
Ah, but so fucking what! Cracking good show nevertheless. But not "libertarian" by a damn sight. DEADWOOD is where you go for famous HBO dramas with that message.
Don't forget Firefly!
How can you NOT have Firefly on this list? Fix that or I aim to misbehave!
Surprised Continuum didn't make the cut. House of Cards is a stupid choice because it is junk fiction. Not believable and I accept that, but it was entertaining.
"The Prisoner follows a British secret agent who wants to walk away from it all but ends up a captive of the very government he once served. "
It's not clear he is a prisoner of his own government, another government that has subverted parts of his government, or another organisation that has subverted parts (all?) of his government. Each intro contains the question "Whose side are you on?" the answer "That would be telling.". It would be very telling indeed. The ambiguity makes it more sinister. If it were his government what would change? Nothing really.
Can't believe most folks have forgotten Gene Roddenberry. Star Trek "TOS" was a libertarian tour de force. A couple of years ago I also watched the new "Battlestar Galactica" and that had some excellent libertarian slants.
And hey, there's this show called "The Independents" that I'm watching that's pretty good too.
Interesting... I never would have made the connection between Star Trek and libertarianism.
Roddenberry had a very... um, optimistic belief in how the future would turn out. Most would describe his rosy vision of the future as socialist. I like all the Treks up through (some of) Voyager, but thank goodness DS9 came along & painted an arguably more realistic future.
Roddenberry had a very... um, optimistic belief in how the future would turn out. Most would describe his rosy vision of the future as socialist. I like all the Treks up through (some of) Voyager, but thank goodness DS9 came along & painted an arguably more realistic future.
Depends on which episodes (and hence which scriptwriters) of which series you're watching. There's a lot of variability. Most TOS episodes are neither here nor there libertarianism-wise, unless I'm missing a uniquely-libertarian angle on dealing with your spaceship being engulfed by a giant space amoeba. But there were some good anti-authoritarian episodes, notable "Patterns of Force", "Space Seed", and the various "Kirk overthrows the computer" stories.
It wasn't until TNG that Roddenberry's socialist leanings became obvious. It did, however, have a very good collectivism-vs-individual component in the Borg-related stories. Ironically, they're the best (albeit unintentional) logical distillation of socialism since Ayn Rand's Anthem.
"All right, think of it this way. Every time you talk about yourself, you use the word we. We want this, we want that. You don't even know how to think of yourself as a single individual. You don't say, I want this, or I am Hugh. We are all separate individuals. I am Geordi. I choose what I want to do with my life. I make decisions for myself. For somebody like me, losing that sense of individuality is almost worse than dying."
There was also that episode of Voyager where that philosopher Q wanted to kill itself and the Q Continuum wouldn't let it.
"We are all separate individuals. I am Geordi. I choose what I want to do with my life. I make decisions for myself. For somebody like me, losing that sense of individuality is almost worse than dying."
Unfortunately, Geordi seems the exception, rather than the rule.
I don't think you can apply 20th century economic philosophies to a future where technology has made the necessities of life essentially free.
There's also the fact that trying to figure out what Federation civilian life was like from Star Trek would be like figuring out American civilian life from 300 hours of documentaries about US Navy submarines. Only DS9 dealt with civilians more than cursorily, and needless to say it was set in an unusual place in the Federation.
Why the fuck is 'Firefly' not on this list? I haz disappoint.
Did this get mentioned elsewhere? I just stumbled on it this morning.
Cindy Sheehan calls Democrats hypocrites for being quiet about wars under Obama because Obama is black and Democrat.
Oops... I meant to post this on another thread, not a recycled one that folks might not see.
Two questions:
How many times will this article be recycled?
and
Will the lazy fucking intern who's recycling it ever delete the old comments before doing so?
Agile Cyborg has quite a body of work. I say keep it.
Ah, his drunk thread. Okay. keep it.
Firefly can't be on this list; the protagonists (mostly) come from an expy of the Old South Confederacy, and there is a Christian Pastor among the crew who isn't a slobbering idiot, so, not libertarian.
Are you sure Shepherd Book was Christian? It was never really pinned down as I remember.
I don't think the Independents had slaves either, kind of an important attribute of the Confederacy.
Are you sure that the Independents never had slaves? It was never really pinned down as I remember.
Yea, anyone who prefers self-determination and believes in 'consent of the governed' must want to own slaves. I mean, that's the only reason anyone would want to secede or not be forced at gunpoint & bloodshed into centralized union.
//cavalier973
...yes, and all the "American System" economics dogma that went with it - fiat currency, central banking, Hamiltonian crony capitalism / mercantilism, regionally unbalanced protectionist tariffs - as well as the "imperialist glory" of meddling in other nations' affairs, federal income tax, "incorporation doctine", etc.
Not like any of that stuff helped build the shit sandwich we're eating today or anything.
Point out the realities of the 1850s U.S. and someone indoctrinated by federally-controlled, compulsory public ed. is guaranteed to pull out the SLAVERY! card, as if it was the only card in the deck back in 1861.
The South put up with all that other stuff until they felt slavery was threatened. The Confederate Constitution was brimming with references to slavery. For example, what was the only bar to a state being admitted to the Confederacy by a majority vote of the Confederate Congress? I'll give you a hint: it's not anything about tariffs.
It's very clear that, at least from the Confederate POV, secession was primarily about slavery. The Union's reasons for going to war were initially more complex, but that's irrelevant.
Lear Dunham|10.4.14 @ 8:55PM|#
"The South put up with all that other stuff until they felt slavery was threatened."
This is the ass Tulpa, hanging out here in the hopes of the attention he so pathetically craves.
Hey, Tulpa! Isn't there ONE site on the entire web that values your bullshit? Not ONE?
No. The South didn't put up with all that stuff. And obviously you've never actually read the Confederate Constitution, which included things like line item veto, State-level control over federal judges and specific language to abolish crony capitalism.
Also, there was that little matter in 1832, i.e., the FIRST time the federal government directly attacked the South economically with regionally unbalanced protectionist tariffs.
After So. Carolina's nullification and subsequent inclination toward secession, the federal government backed down and rolled back the tariff. Note: the legitimacy of secession was not questioned then (nor at the Hartford Convention or at any other time), and the issue was NOT about slavery. The same factors were in play in 1860.
Slavery was in no way "threatened" in 1861. On the contrary, Congress had just voted to PROTECT the institution of slavery in perpetuity, and that resolution was in the process of being ratified as the (first) 13th Amendment when Lincoln provoked his war. Secession was a direct response to federal usurpation of political and economic power.
The South sure didn't mind meddling with other states when it came to enforcing The Fugitive Slave Act. All the more reason the War of Southern Liberation was, at its core, a freedom project.
Since you've forgotten (or never knew), the Constitution had very clear and unequivocal language - which every State approved upon their ratification of same - regarding State responsibilities regarding the issue of fugitive slaves.
"there is a Christian Pastor among the crew who isn't a slobbering idiot, so, not libertarian."
It's Progressives who think all Christians are slobbering idiots, not Libertarians.
This atheist libertarian finds Christians much preferable to Progressive Theocrats, both politically and intellectually.
Politically, Christians are relatively averse to theocracy. Intellectually, Christians are often not that sophisticated, but Progressives are much worse, as they're purveyors of anti epistemology.
Late to the party, but Les Revenants (The Returned) is rather overtly anti-Government. The ostensible villain is a cop who has full surveillance over the city, and uses it to creepy ends.
It's also just a hell of a show.
I once watched the premier of FireFly. It sucked. Its movie Serenity was good though.
Freedom Watch!
I would like two say two things before this topic dies. "Hell on Wheels" is a great show, and the new "Dr. Who" should be re-named "The Romantic Adventures of Clara The Umpossible Girl"
People still watch South Park?
Where in the FUCK is firefly? It is DRASTICALLY more libertarian than House of Cards and The Wire. I've never seen The Prisoner, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's more libertarian than that is as well.