Mike Rowe on the Hidden Cost of Compliance

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Mike Rowe on the Hidden Cost of Compliance

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"There are an army of angry acronyms out there and they each have a very specific agenda," says TV personality Mike Rowe, best known as the longtime host of Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs, in this ReasonTV interview excerpt. "None of them are there to make your life easier. They are there to make you more compliant."

You can watch ReasonTV's full in-depth interview with Mike Rowe here.

Aprrox. 1 minute. Hosted by Reason's Nick Gillespie. Cameras by Meredith Bragg and Joshua Swain. Edited by Bragg. 

Scroll down for downloadable versions and subscribe to Reason TV's YouTube Channel to receive automatic updates when new material goes live.

Comments

[Suthenboy]

Compliant. A single word that in most contexts inspires the rebel in me.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, you WILL fall into line. Or else.

[Suthenboy]

A lot of people are still waiting for that.

[Rollo]

You know what's a Dirty Job? Fixing the country after the inevitable result of 8 years of jungle economics. Mike Rowe should do a show on cleaning up the pig sty politics that Bush and his fellow proto-Tea Party Republicans left us in 2008.

[Episiarch]

D-. Shriek already has this sockpuppet niche. You fail. Try and be original next time, poseur.

[Rollo]

It's hilarious to see libertarians trying (and failing ) to be funny.

[Episiarch]

It's hilarious to see morons trying (and failing) to troll.

Don't get too butthurt, though. You've at least provided some good amusement as the utter failure you are.

[Dweebston]

Not especially. I'm confused by "jungle economics," and it sounds vaguely racist.

[Suthenboy]

Vaguely? I was sure he was talking about president 'Not my fault' until I got to the Bush part. In the first half second I was sure it was American.

Look Rollo, shreek is one of the dumbest trolls we have ever had and you are worse than he is. Go shit on some other threads...huffpuff maybe.

[Dweebston]

You will address him by his full title: President Barack Hussein "Bush III" Obama.

[Entropy Void]

You misspelled:
President Barack Hussein "Il Duche Redux" Obama, Rider of Unicorns, Uniter of All Progdom, Cashier of Junkers, Immaculate Father of St. Travon, Prince of Solyndra, Insurer Emparator of the Americas, Sultan of Nairobi, Demi-Marquis of the Caucasus (via his mother's side), Margrave of Guantanamo, Despoiler of Sweden, Baron of Benghazi, Recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize Before He Had the Office to Do Anything About It, Confiscator of Firearms, Droner of Waziristani Matrimony and Maker of Boondoggle Trains Run On Time.

[Atanarjuat]

Tip o' the monocle to ye, Entropy Void, that was a work of art.

[Rollo]

How does the economy get run in the libertarian world? The same way it gets run in the jungle, not at all. Ergo jungle economics. You think you're a lion but you're only a meerkat.

[Sevo]

Rollo|12.14.13 @ 5:29PM|#
"How does the economy get run in the libertarian world? The same way it gets run in the jungle, not at all."

Oh, goody. Another lefty ignoramus here to explain libertarianism to us!
So tell us, did evolution require an intelligent designer?

[Rollo]

We don't have 65 million years to wait for a decent economy to evolve after the Republican version of the Chicklube asteroid.

[Irish]

This is the greatest performance art that I have ever seen. This is definitely fake, but whoever is running this sock puppet is a genius.

There is just no way that a real person would be smart enough to know that the Chicxulub asteroid exists but then spell it Chicklube.

[Sevo]

Rollo|12.14.13 @ 6:00PM|#
"We don't have 65 million years to wait for a decent economy to evolve after the Republican version of the Chicklube asteroid."

Well, in that case, we'll just have to appoint *you* the food czar, charged with getting the right amount of food into NYC!
Have at it. Let's see a daily plan by, oh, sometime before dawn tomorrow. Those people can't be allowed to starve and obviously without a TOP MAN to direct the economy, they will.
GO!

[DesigNate]

Holy shit, you're like all of the batshit insane of shriek and the complete retardation of tony all rolled into one.

[Irish]

The same way it gets run in the jungle, not at all.

This is hilarious. Pretty much every third world country on Earth has a government that is highly invasive and requires kick backs to open any sort of business. They also tend to take property whenever the ruling class desires.

The bad economies of 'jungle nations,' a term that actually strikes me as vaguely racist, are almost always kept down by the government having no checks on its authority.

[Rollo]

I was talking about the animals in the jungle OK? Racist? Most jungle dwellers are Asian races, Borneo, Vietnam, Brazil, etc. LOL

[Irish]

Most jungle dwellers are Asian races, Borneo, Vietnam, Brazil, etc. LOL

??? I hate to break it to you, but you can be racist against Asians. Also, people in Brazil are not Asian.

I'm going with fake troll.

[Rollo]

Where did the Native South Americans come from, pigdick? It's not Spaniards living in the Amazon.

[Irish]

Where did the Native South Americans come from, pigdick? It's not Spaniards living in the Amazon.

This is amazing. Keep going. You're on a roll.

[wadair]

Rollo|12.14.13 @ 6:03PM|#

Where did the Native South Americans come from, pigdick? It's not Spaniards living in the Amazon.

Brazil was a colony of Portugal--you historically challenged numbskull.

[Sevo]

Now I'm beginning to lean toward imbecile. The "LOL" is pretty damning.

[XM]

"Most jungle dwellers are Asian races"

You put a guy from Seoul or Tokyo in a jungle without a functioning cell phone, and they'll be dead within a week.

[Dweebston]

I'll bet some of your best friends are from "jungle countries," racist.

[Sy]

Meerkats live in prairie land. Not the jungle.

[Irish]

Yeah, but based on Rollo's definition I think technically they're Asians.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Shit.

Another one.

/face palm.

[pan fried wylie]

You think you're a lion but you're only a meerkat.

Neither of which live in the jungle.

[Rabban]

So I am talking about asians if I use the pejorative "jungle bunny"? Hmmm, might want to check the urban dictionary on that one.

[Entropy Void]

Well, I certainly liked the "jungle economics" reference ... I thought you were speaking of the Kenyan Fascist currently inhabiting the White House.

[Jeff]

Pro tip: you don't clean up Bush's mess by acting like Bush on steroids.

[Sevo]

Rollo|12.14.13 @ 3:33PM|#
"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!"

Got it. Used up.
And if you think Bush was a 'tea-party republican' you have problems no one here can help with.

[Rollo]

Sevo|12.15.13 @ 9:47AM|#
"lalalalalala not listening!"

Surely you can do better than that, dinkhole.

[Irish]

Bush increased spending 53%.

Clinton increased spending 12.5%.

If you seriously think the problem with George Bush was 'austerity, Tea Party jungle economics' then Bill Clinton must have been an anarchist.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Neither increased spending. That is a Congressional power.

[Irish]

So when Obama continued virtually all of the Bush administration's policies that was...what exactly?

[Austrian Anarchy]

Social Justice, I think. My neo-Marxist buzzword file is a little dusty.

[Austrian Anarchy]

1) Your handle is racist, unless you really are Lamont's hoodlum friend.

2) The Tea Party began in opposition to Bush policies. Obama's continuation and amplification of those policies only grew their ranks.

[Episiarch]

The hidden costs of compliance are staggering. I don't think we can even comprehend how staggering. Just think of the armies of accountants who are hired to process tax returns every year. These are people whose job is solely and only to deal with compliance. They cost money. They could be doing something productive. But instead they're interpreting how much money the government gets to steal from you, and that's all they do/i. And that's just one agency, the IRS (and state equivalents). Then there's every other agency that wants to force your compliance as well.

If you removed even a portion of these regulations and burdens, the economy would go into hyperdrive.

[Rollo]

Armies of accountants losing their jobs will make the economy go into overdrive?

[MJGreen]

Then, they remark that, in the transition from one system to the other, there will be some displacement of labor.

Next, they expatiate on the sufferings that this displacement must, according to them, necessarily entail. They exaggerate these sufferings, enlarge upon them, make them the chief subject of discussion, representing them as the sole and final consequence of the proposed reform, and strive in this way to enlist you under the banner of monopoly.

This is, in fact, the very same stratagem that has been used to defend every kind of abuse; and I must frankly acknowledge that it always disconcerts the proponents of reforms, even of those most desirable for the people.

The reason for this is easily understood.

Once an abuse exists, everything is arranged on the assumption that it will last indefinitely; and, as more and more people come to depend upon it for their livelihood, and still others depend upon them, a superstructure is erected that soon comprises a formidable edifice.

The moment you try to tear it down, everybody protests; and the point to which I wish to call particular attention here is that those who protest always appear at first glance to be in the right, because it is easier to show the disorder that must accompany reform than the order that should follow it.

[Rollo]

Plaguerizing like your hero Ron Paul? LOL

[Irish]

Okay, this is either a fake troll or a moron.

It was Rand Paul and it was plagiarizing, not...whatever that word is supposed to mean.

More importantly, I'm not sure how someone plagiarizes when he makes it obvious it's not his own words, and he's writing it in a blog comment.

[Sevo]

Irish|12.14.13 @ 5:41PM|#
"Okay, this is either a fake troll or a moron."

I'm going with the first, since imbecility of this magnitude would pretty much make typing a skill beyond his/her capability.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Okay, this is either a fake troll or a moron.

Can't it be both?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Rollo doesn't support raising the minimum wage to $15.

He supports $20!

[cavalier973]

$20? What is he, a jungle economist? Everybody knows that a $100/hour minimum wage is what is needed to jump start the economy!!

[Sevo]

Piker! Since raising the MW means more jobs, we need $300/hr! And we need it now!

[Irish]

If we just hired everyone to be a government accountant the economy would roar! /liberal economics

[Fist of Etiquette]

Regulation compliance is a jobs program.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

*Walks into thread...

...whistles...

...turns around and leaves*

[hamilton]

This. Except I wanted to say how much more I like Mike Rowe every day. Nick, did he convince you to come back to Scouting?

[BakedPenguin]

This. In addition to freeing up people to perform productive work, the time spent by already productive people on BS compliance stuff would disappear.

[Rollo]

Right because there's so many companies desperate for someone to hire right now. Good grief.

[Irish]

Those companies would be more desperate to hire people if they weren't spending large amounts of time and money on compliance costs.

I like when liberals use the failures of their own policies as evidence that their political opponents are wrong.

"We've made small businesses impossible to start through massive regulation and high compliance costs! IT'S THE LIBERTARIAN'S FAULT!"

[cavalier973]

"Government is good at only one thing. It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, 'See if it weren't for the government, you couldn't walk.'" - ~Harry Browne

[Brian D]

plaguerist!

[Sevo]

Rollo|12.14.13 @ 3:57PM|#
"Right because there's so many companies desperate for someone to hire right now. Good grief."

Yep, your heroes have tried their damnedest to make hiring VERY expensive, but they haven't yet killed commerce.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Right because there's so many companies desperate for someone to hire right now.

Life in the Age of Obama--what are you going to do?

[SusanM]

Oh, but don't you know that everyone who opens a business is a billionaire who has plenty to spare for regulators and regulations?

[Irish]

No middle class or poor person has ever been put out of business or stopped from opening one due to unnecessary regulation.

Those hundreds of Detroit businesses shut down by government crackdowns in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings were all run by the billionaires that we all know live in Detroit.

[Dweebston]

They were heating their dismal shops with trashcan fires! Off with their heads!

[Sevo]

And they were just junk businesses. I'll bet they didn't even pay their employees a 'living wage'.
So they all get the real minimum wage: Zero.

[Dweebston]

If you like your job, you can keep your job. Certain conditions apply, see reverse for details.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Apparently, the Colorado shooter was a top debater, track athlete, Eagle Scout, submitted questions to a Senate debate, interviewed in media about Colorado quarter (the coin?).

He got mad when the coach threw him off the debate team. That's the coach he was looking for the day of the shooting.

And he allegedly planted a couple molotov cocktail bombs, if so the cops were on the right track looking for bombs.

http://www.worldmag.com/mobile.....p?id=28621

[Dweebston]

Headlines: Coach Bullies Student, Sparks School Shooting.

[Eduard van Haalen]

And from a link furnished by a commenter, I know which side he liked to debate on.

Hint: progressive

[Sevo]

I mentioned this in the 24/7 thread:
The Chron is distributing an AP feed that says simply he "held communist views".
Given the Chron's editorial bias (they long ago capsized to the left), it must burn the editor's ass to run that, but I think AP has rules about fiddling with the feed.

[Eduard van Haalen]

See below

[Sevo]

Well, the Chron didn't 'fiddle' with the AP copy which stated the guy "held communist views", they just shortened the story to delete that.

[Sevo]

Now they've got a new AP feed: "he was outspoken about his Communist-leaning political views."
The lefty press is trying all sorts of contortions to not admit one of their own was as whacky as they are.
'Centralized planning leads to centralized killing', Tony Judt.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Of course, so MSM will have him in the Tea Party before Christmas. Lee Harvey Oswald all over again.

[MJGreen]

David Henderson at EconLog points out how one news piece takes an awful long time to point out that the shooter was progressive, pro-gun control, etc.

I would laugh that this guy criticized Republicans as being "pro-death," and then went to school with a shotgun. But then again, he's a teenager. Teenagers are fucked up.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

This is what progressives actually believe

We cannot properly attribute the catastrophe in Greece to labor protection, nor can we attribute it to government borrowing. What is the cause, then? The World Health Organization has the answer: austerity. "Austerity" is a bloodless term for gross economic mismanagement, animated by heartlessness. That robotic cut-cut-cut mentality that deprives us of jobs, of public services, of safety, of health, of infrastructure, of help for the needy, and -- ultimately -- of our economic equilibrium and the ability to survive. The mentality that ushers in, and welcomes, a vicious war of all against all. Austerity is destroying an entire country, right before our eyes.
[...]
In America, we have a rich and powerful lobby that has the same prescription for every economic malady: austerity. Cut-cut-cut. Cut Social Security and Medicare. Cut teacher and police and firefighter jobs. Cut health care. Cut pay and cut pensions. It all boils down to that one ugly word: austerity. And austerity always brings disarray, disaster, decay and death.

...I'm against pain and suffering. Especially avoidable pain and suffering. And therefore, I'm against austerity. It begins with seemingly innocuous budget cuts. It then leads inexorably to the destruction of countless lives.

[Dweebston]

In other words, "I read a few articles by Krugman, none of which really addressed or even properly defined European 'austerity,' and certainly none of which tries tackling thorny issues of hyperregulatory regimes paired with expansive social programs, and now I'm going to put my scant understanding of complex economic issues in terms of a ruthless medical intervention and let's pretend any of what I've just said makes a great deal of sense or even gets at the heart of the matter."

I'm against pain and suffering. Especially avoidable pain and suffering.

But not, it seems, against causing headaches for strangers over the internet.

[Irish]

Germany's retirement age is 69, Greece's is 58.

In 2007 Germany raised its retirement age from 65 to 67 and the German government is now talking about increasing retirement to age 69 for full pension payments to start. On the other hand Greek workers now retire at age 58 with 80% of pension payments and the country's workers are currently agitating for a lower retirement age.

Retiring at 58 with 4/5 of your lifetime income: EVIL AUSTERITY/NOTHING LEFT TO CUT!

I'm sure it's a total coincidence that Germany is a European juggernaut and Greece is an economic basketcase.

They both had 'austerity' measures. Why did it work in Germany and not in Greece?

[Raven Nation]

I agree with you on the German/Greece distinction. But, the Germans are not blameless in this either according to a lot of people. I don't remember all the details now, but it had something to do with the pressure the Germans were putting on the Greek banks over debt & bonds (I think).

(And, also fully realize you were not necessarily exempting the Germans by your statement. Just wanted to add my bit).

[Irish]

I'm not exempting the Germans from the problems going on in Europe. I'm pointing out that those problems didn't manifest within Germany because Germany is comparatively economically free and has a very hard working population.

[Raven Nation]

Got it.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

In a rather meek, non-dynamic Greek economy I might add.

A few of my Greek friends, though, feel spurned because Greece helped Germany after WWII.

http://www.theguardian.com/com.....ny-recover

[Sevo]

From the link:

"Suicide rates rose 40 percent in the first six months of 2011 alone.
Murder has doubled.
9,100 doctors in Greece, roughly one out of every seven, have been laid off."

My goodness. Those people are dead-set against living within what they earn, aren't they?
Oh, and the MDs? Just wait'll Obo finishes with the US medical bizz.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Holy Moly. Writing that took some serious ignorance.

The government should just employ everyone and provide for everyone, history has demonstrated that it works every time.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Works out pretty well for the poets, minstrels, dancers, and teachers. Ever wonder why the various Communisms are so well represented in the arts and academia?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

And remember guys, this man is a lawmaker. He is our superior, a Top Man that democracy says should be dictating policy.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Grayson is a special breed of crazy.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

...I'm against pain and suffering. Especially avoidable pain and suffering. And therefore, I'm against austerity. It begins with seemingly innocuous budget cuts. It then leads inexorably to the destruction of countless lives.

Which is why, should he or one his children ever get cancer, Congressman Grayson will stick to principle and avoid chemotherapy as it causes pain and suffering.

[Sevo]

..."It begins with seemingly innocuous budget cuts. It then leads inexorably to the destruction of countless lives."...

Yep, slippery slope right there. Why, the gov't started with the SEKWESTER several months ago, and look now! S/S is gone, medicare is cut to the bone, and you can't even get an O'phone in the color of your choice!

[Suthenboy]

"Austerity is destroying an entire country, right before our eyes."

Yes. I remember when the sinister austerity began, right at the height of prosperity, when the economy was roaring and everyone had plenty of money. The start of austerity is when the economy began its downward spiral.

[PapayaSF]

Kind of like a guy who never brushed his teeth complaining that his problems began when he went to the dentist. After that, there was a lot of pain and expense! Damn those dentists!

[Francisco d Anconia]

Cut-cut-cut.

Um, what's been cut, exactly? I believe the debt has grown from $10T to $17T in 5 years.

Damn this austerity!

[MJGreen]

But it could've grown to $18T, and everything would've been fixed! You heartless bastard!

[Dweebston]

I finally installed reasonable. Can't believe I've been lurking h&r like a chump all this time rather than posting in style.

[Irish]

Cato Unbound's anti-prostitute side of this debate is hilariously moronic.

It is no argument to say as McNeill does that animals practice prostitution and we are, after all, animals. Some animals kill their young, and we do too, but we don't therefore make it legal. It is no argument to say that prostitution has always been with us; so has slavery but we don't make it legal.

Wait...who benefits from slavery?

Contrary to Weitzer's claims, legal prostitution in Nevada is not without problems. Quite the opposite. Nevada has the highest rates of domestic violence-related homicide in the United States, and rape and sexual assault are rife.

This couldn't have anything to do with the fact that people go to Nevada to drink excessively and do drugs. Nope. Must be the legal hooking.

When women are viewed as nothing more than receptacles for men, when they can be purchased and are rated as consumer products on line, it makes a statement.

You want to know what else makes a statement? The idea that women can't make their own choices and need to be protected by busybodies like you.

[Episiarch]

Nevada has the highest rates of domestic violence-related homicide in the United States, and rape and sexual assault are rife

What in fucking hell does that have to do with the existence of a few highly regulated, extremely expensive bunny ranches? Prostitution isn't even legal in Clark County.

[Dweebston]

I thought I read "sexual assault rifle."

[optimusratiostultum]

don't worry those will be banned

[Jeff]

So when you hire a guy to work on your car do you "purchase" him as well? What a stupid argument.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Denver Post online profile of Colo shooter quotes a clasdmate calling him a socialist. Then later, they delete the quote from the story without explanation.

#thingsthatmakeyougohmm

http://www.mediaite.com/online.....l-shooter/

[Suthenboy]

The left's failings are always someone else's fault.

All they have are failings so when they arent blaming their failings on someone else, they are trying to rewrite history (The National Socialists were right wing, dontcha know) or disown the monsters that have always waived their banners.

I am shocked they let the 'socialist' word through the first time.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Paraphrase, not quote

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Gunz!

The Second Amendment crowd is misreading the amendment in whose name they struggle, but they're not wrong about everything. There is a cultural divide over guns. As one who has used guns recreationally off and on for many years, and who has lived in the major capitals of the East and well outside them, I've seen that divide firsthand
[...]
Much of the rest of the country is still living out the pioneer fantasy forged in the 1800s ? and that fantasy is still fulfilling the same economic purpose: to distract them from the true imbalances in power that rob them of agency and economic power. They may not have money or a good job. But with a well-stocked gun cabinet they can feel that personal power is, in the words of the Rolling Stones song "just a shot away."

We're not here to judge them, but there is a through-line that reaches from their innermost fantasies to the deaths of children in Newtown. We've all been programmed with internal fantasies, with consequences we can dimly understand at best. But theirs is an especially deadly fantasy. It fuels Tea Party rage with a violent individualistic ethos that rejects collective action, even when that action is in their own interest. And it prevents the kind of legislation that could prevent future Newtowns

Why gun control will never catch on: the condescension of these people is suffocating.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Yeah, it's marginalized working class and poor people who cling to guns. Historically, the rich have preferred to go around unarmed - because they never felt they needed weapons.

[Metazoan]

Probably because their guards had weapons.

[Eduard van Haalen]

I was joshing. The rich - at least if you include the ariztocracy - have generally insisted on wearing weapons on their persons. They're the ones who tended to become military officers, where they not only needed guns yonshoot at the enemy, but had guns handy in case they had to fight duels.

[MJGreen]

The well-stocked gun cabinet may also protect them from real human and non-human threats, you condescending prick.

File this under "comfortable progressive writer doesn't think poor people should be allowed to protect themselves."

[Rollo]

If you have more guns than people living in your house, you're not obtaining them to use them to protect yourself. Whether it's due to a fantasy and secret desire for mass violence or an innocent hoarding disorder, it's unhealthy and better off stopped.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

If you have more guns than people living in your house, you're not obtaining them to use them to protect yourself

And how would you know this, Karnac? Projection of your own inability to control yourself?

[Rollo]

If the mafia or the EPA or the latest NRA boogeyman comes to invade your house and violate your so-called individual rights, running after them with ten guns on your belt isn't going to help you defend yourself.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

If the mafia or the EPA or the latest NRA boogeyman comes to invade your house and violate your so-called individual rights, running after them with ten guns on your belt isn't going to help you defend yourself.

Which wasn't your point--you were arguing that people who had more guns than residents in the house were mentally disturbed--but hey, why not try this bit of misdirection when your own psychological deficiencies are identified?

[Rollo]

Dumass, NO. I'm proving that acquiring more guns than people in your house is obviously not for protection, obviously for other reasons. Other reasons are pretty much limited to irrational and unhealthy reasons.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I'm proving that acquiring more guns than people in your house is obviously not for protection, obviously for other reasons.

Actually, you haven't proven shit.

[Irish]

Actually, you haven't proven shit.

That's because this guy is a fake troll that's here to dick around.

No real human being could be dumb enough to say that Ron Paul 'plaguerized.' No actual person would know about the Chicxulub asteroid but call it 'chicklube.'

These are pretty clear tells that this isn't a real progressive but is a regular dicking around for kicks.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I have several placed in various spots throughout my house so they are readily available if needed.

Your premise is still faulty.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Regardless, how would the number of guns I own be ANY of your business?

[Rollo]

It's not any of my business, it's any of OUR business. You think of "I", I think of "we". Pronoun number equals destiny.

[Francisco d Anconia]

You think of "I", I think of "we". Pronoun number equals destiny.

Well, your "we" has no moral authority to impose your will upon "me", until "I" somehow infringe upon the rights of "another".

So, until then, fuck off slaver!

[Sevo]

"Pronoun number equals destiny."

OK folks, picture this:
Closeup of healthy, loyal peasant driving a tractor, staring off into the middle distance at sunset.
And we already HAVE a caption!
Whadaya think?! Do we have a winner or do we have a WINNER?!

[Irish]

Other reasons are pretty much limited to irrational and unhealthy reasons.

I think you're fake, but I actually hear this ludicrous argument a lot and it bugs me.

If someone has multiple guns because they like to target shoot, then that's no more an irrational reason to own guns than having a bat is irrational if you use it for baseball.

Someone making a decision you would not make does not mean it's an irrational decision.

[Rollo]

If you have 10 different kinds of bats and say it's because you play baseball, there's something wrong with you. You only need one bat to hit a ball and you only need one gun to shoot a target.

[Irish]

What. A baseball player having multiple different bats is somehow a mental illness now?

I hope you only have one of everything, because if you have more than once chair that you just kind of carry around with you from place to place, then I think that you're a scary chair hoarder that needs to be stopped.

[Rollo]

I don't carry chairs everywhere I go, I use the chairs that are kept at the places I like to sit. Are you willing to just use the guns that are kept at the places you like to shoot?

[Corning]

You only need one bat to hit a ball and you only need one gun to shoot a target.

One shotgun too shoot birds one rifle to shoot deer one handgun to keep near the bed for home defense.

Can we have 3 guns Rollo? Pretty pretty please?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

If you have 10 different kinds of bats and say it's because you play baseball, there's something wrong with you.

Actually, someone who owned 10 different kinds of bats probably plays in a league.

[Francisco d Anconia]

There are many different uses for guns. I have a handful for self defense, several for hunting and several for sport shooting.

Your premise is faulty.

[Rollo]

Then you wouldn't mind if we kept them secure at the places you go for sport shooting and hunting. Right?

If not, that means either you want to have them just to have them (hoarding disorder) or you intend to use them for other reasons (crime).

[Irish]

Oh good Lord, I know you're a sockpuppet and still can't stop responding to crazy shit like this.

Owning an item magically makes you a hoarder now? If I own an X Box just because I enjoy X Box's am I now an X Box hoarder?

[Eduard van Haalen]

The People's Revolution will know how to deal with hoarders. Also wreckers and Kulaks.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Then you wouldn't mind if we kept them secure at the places you go for sport shooting and hunting. Right?

Of course I'd mind. You have no authority or justification to do so.

[Rollo]

Your minding indicates that you are not in a good mental place, which is authority of justification IMHO.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Your minding indicates that you are not in a good mental place, which is authority of justification IMHO.

So your opinion is that if I will not allow you to force me to your will that I'm mentally disturbed in some fashion?

Anyone who's upset that Rollo wants to control them is crazy. Institutionalize them.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Soviet psychiatry, everyone. If you oppose the edicts of the state you are mentally ill.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Your minding indicates that you are not in a good mental place, which is authority of justification IMHO.

Please stop trying to punish society for your daddy issues.

[DesigNate]

Your opinion means dick. And if you weren't a sock is tell you to go DIAF.

[Corning]

Then you wouldn't mind if we kept them secure at the places you go for sport shooting and hunting. Right?

But i have a man cave all set up for cleaning my guns...can i take them home for that?

Pretty pretty please???

[cavalier973]

Who, exactly, is "we"?

[Sevo]

cavalier973|12.14.13 @ 9:25PM|#
"Who, exactly, is "we"?"
Pretty sure Rollo has something stinky in his pocket.

[Francisco d Anconia]

it's unhealthy and better off stopped.

Oh, so you claim to prescribe what's best for others? When were you endowed with this great gift and who is going to do the stopping?

Another immoral pig. (Actually, I'll give better than even odds it's Tony under another handle.)

[Rollo]

If you don't know what's best for others, why don't you punch everyone you see on the street? Maybe it's best for them to be punched?

No. You know what's best for others. You can't function in society without knowing what's best for others. But your ideology make you feint ignorance.

[Francisco d Anconia]

If you don't know what's best for others, why don't you punch everyone you see on the street?

Liberty is what's best, for everyone.

And, unlike yours, our philosophy doesn't allow the initiation of force.

[Rollo]

Within 13 minutes, you went from chiding me for thinking I know what's best for others to proclaiming that you do. Hippocracy incarnate.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Unlike you smart alec, he doesn't believe it should be coerced.

[Francisco d Anconia]

Are you claiming liberty is bad?

[Corning]

Actually, I'll give better than even odds it's Tony under another handle.

He is too over the top. I think it is a libertarian spoofing a progressive.

[Francisco d Anconia]

I think it is a libertarian spoofing a progressive.

As opposed to Tony?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Ooo, Rollo knows what's good for people.

I own a 7000 sq ft lot home and plan to sell it within the next three years to buy at least 25 000 sq ft.

Is that ok with you presumptuous asshole?

I mean, what the fuck do I need 25 000 sq feet, amirite?

And before you babble like a brainwashed, left-wing ignoramus baboon, I own two shot guns.

And I'm Canadian!

You do realize there are different guns for different sports, hunting etc., right?

Fuck off you piece of shit.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Make that, 'what the fuck do I need 25 000 sq feet for, amirite?"

I have a feeling Rollo is one of those grammar jerk offs.

[General Butt Naked]

I own a 7000 sq ft lot home and plan to sell it within the next three years to buy at least 25 000 sq ft.

and then...

I own two shot guns.

Lookie here Joe "Two Shotguns" Biden, you're gonna need more than one gun/12.5k ft^2, dude. I worry about your state of mind.

[BSubversive.com]

I've got lots of guns because I well... enjoy guns. Like being able to shoot a 1911, or an M9 or a PPK or a Sig because they are each unique works of art. I need to make some money so I can add to the collection. I'd like an HK and a SW. Yeah, I know I'm the devil and I need to be stopped from doing something I enjoy. Fuck You with WARTY's spiked DICK.

[Sevo]

..."and that fantasy is still fulfilling the same economic purpose: to distract them from the true imbalances in power that rob them of agency and economic power."...

Well, it's pretty clear what is robbing people of moral agency, and it's not some claimed "fantasy".

[Dweebston]

Mm. Could the same be said of a fully-stocked liquor cabinet or wine cellar? What about a library filled with trashy romance novels, or a penchant for ST:TOS reruns? Or Honey Booboo, for that matter? What about meeting up with liberal friends and kvetching about the unappealing habits of conservative neighbors? Or, hell, volunteering regularly at a soup kitchen? Or raising children?

All of these peculiar habits distract from those "imbalances in power that rob them of agency and economic power," and provide a sense of fulfillment?else, why keep them up? And no devotee of any hobby would be especially content seeing their diversions criminalized. Why should it be any different for owning firearms?

The author conflates criminals who use guns with the broader class of gun owners, and conflates laws passed to prevent gun crimes with the broader topic of gun crime prevention. The very foundation of his flimsy rhetorical edifice crumbles beneath it, since his conclusions stem from those premises: that gun owners collectively share guilt, and that gun laws actually prevent gun crimes. He may as well argue that porn fetishes drive child prostitution, that fast food drives obesity, that playing the lottery drives gambling addiction, that CoD and the tactical shooters it apes drive schoolyard violence...

And he wants to discuss "agency." Right.

[Rollo]

"Mm. Could the same be said of a fully-stocked liquor cabinet or wine cellar? What about a library filled with trashy romance novels, or a penchant for ST:TOS reruns? Or Honey Booboo, for that matter? What about meeting up with liberal friends and kvetching about the unappealing habits of conservative neighbors? Or, hell, volunteering regularly at a soup kitchen? Or raising children?"

None of those things are capable of killing 20 children.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Alcohol causes more deaths every year than guns. But I'm sure you won't let that get in the way of your hoplophobia.

[Irish]

How many children are killed in drunk driving accidents, killed by an alcoholic parent, left to starve or freeze due to parental negligence when Daddy is out looking for some vodka to keep his buzz going?

[Dweebston]

All of which only indicates that those things should be outlawed, too.

Laws != compliance, and compliance != reducing crime. I don't know how much more simply this could possibly be spelled out.

Gun control is a cargo cult. Like most leftist superstitions, it's an article of faith predicated on hoping that, given enough time and finagling new laws, an era of peace unknown to humanity will descend like a downy comforter. We need only to arrange things such that it looks like guns are strenglich verboten, and the problems will disappear. That it hasn't worked in the past and ends up being a dragnet capturing many innocents in its wake is just part of the cult mentality.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"None of those things are capable of killing 20 children."

Ah yes. The piece de resistance in the progressive arsenal: The appeal to emotions.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I have to sets of bad ass Sanelli knives right on my counter for cooking.

I mean, at any minute I can 'snap' and stab people.

Come to think of it, I have bleach and various cleaning products under my sink.

Shouldn't all this be under lock and key?

I swear this guy Rollo - whoever he is and where he comes from - is getting on my nerves.

Seriously.

And these people think they're 'rational.'

[Rollo]

I never said I was rational. I just follow what reality tells me, liberal bias and all. 🙂

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Thanks makes absolutely no sense. None.

Stay away from my kid. I read liberal bias is contagious.

[Old Man With Candy]

I swear this guy Rollo - whoever he is and where he comes from - is getting on my nerves.

That is the whole point of a troll. Yet you feed him. So do others. I truly do not understand this.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I know. You're right.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

We're not here to judge them

:Proceeds to go about doing exactly that:

[Irish]

I would just like to point out Buzzfeed has a section devoted to books.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that the purveyor of listicles and GIFs thinks that anyone who regularly looks at that website can actually read.

[BSubversive.com]

How did you find the link then??? Hu??

[The Late P Brooks]

We're not here to judge them, but there is a through-line that reaches from their innermost fantasies to the deaths of children in Newtown. We've all been programmed with internal fantasies, with consequences we can dimly understand at best. But theirs is an especially deadly fantasy. It fuels Tea Party rage with a violent individualistic ethos that rejects collective action, even when that action is in their own interest. And it prevents the kind of legislation that could prevent future Newtowns

What in the fuck?

The problem is not individualistic rage, you blathering cretin. The problem is people who (due to mental illness? shabby education?) cannot think three steps ahead. The overwhelming majority of people, gun owners or not, will after the briefest contemplation realize that shooting somebody will be the beginning and not the end of their problems.

The GUN is not the problem. The gun is just a tool. The problem is an individual who cannot clearly comprehend the consequences of his actions; who believes shooting people is a solution to his problems.

[Warty]

What I liked is his assertion that people who want the boot on their neck to be eased up slightly have a "violent individualistic ethos". There has to be an explanation for why all these paste-eating retards have trouble realizing that government is violence.

[cavalier973]

But it's "good people violence", not "ungood people violence".

[SusanM]

TOP. MEN.

[BSubversive.com]

You know, if I voted for a law that systematically destroyed the entire healthcare system, I wouldn't really want the people to be armed either.

[Dave Krueger]

Wait. PETA?

[Atanarjuat]

Well, they do impose compliance costs on movie productions, for example. I just heard a concern troll interviewed on NPR the other day complaining that the "animals were not hurt during the making of this movie" certification was private, not government mandated, and wasn't strict enough, etc.

PETA has probably lobbied various government agencies to over-regulate all kinds of agricultural and animal husbandry-related enterprises. So they don't directly impose compliance costs, but have an agenda of increasing them.

[Old Man With Candy]

Not to bring up the sensitive issue of tin again, but... in order for companies to comply with the Conflict Minerals section of Dodd-Frank (basically, anyone who has tin, tungsten, tantalum,or gold has to jump through major regulatory hoops, regardless of how little they use), they now are using a registry run by iPCMP. A German company. So not only does pointless regulation saddle US companies with a large regulatory cost (our cost to comply is about one hundred times what we spend for the minuscule amount of tin compound we use), but the "jobs" created by this sort of abortion are outsourced to Europe.

We can thank a Republican for this one, Brownback, who added this in to Section 1502. Because they're all about deregulation, see?

[Warrren]

Innovate around the problem!

[Old Man With Candy]

Getting customer approvals for formulation changes ranges between "ain't gonna happen" to "no fucking way." The money I *could* have used to hire another chemist is now carted off to Germany. The number of lives saved in the Congo (the intention of this POS law) is zero.

[Irish]

Huffington Post: Help! I've been censored because a private company didn't want to run my story about lesbian cousins having sex with a snake in the Missouri woods!

The story I submitted, called "Cottonmouth," was inspired by a scene from Truman Capote's Other Voices, Other Rooms that had never left my head, in which two teenagers have a freaky encounter with a snake.

Okay.

Having never had to deal with issues of legality in my work before, I panicked. But after spending some quality time brushing up on U.S. obscenity law, it became clear to me that there was indeed no legal issue with my story. "Cottonmouth" simply made Cleis Press nervous. But why?

One of the arguments I have heard repeatedly in hashing out this situation among friends, colleagues and peers is that Cleis is just a middle-of-the-road publisher that hasn't done anything exciting in a long time, and that my "edgy" and "out-there" piece therefore just needs to find a different home.

I like that the term 'edgy' has been so degraded that it now means "Any terrible story involving bestiality/incest/pedophilia."

Or in this case, all three!

[Sevo]

"Or in this case, all three!"

Alternatively:
'Thank you for your submission, but we find the subject matter outside the areas of X publisher's readers' interests'
IOWs: "Your writing stinks and we don't want to get in an argument with you"

[Rufus J. Firefly]

This doesn't sound 'edgy' at all. I think we're a pretty open, eclectic bunch when it comes to art and entertainment but that doesn't strike me as 'edgy.'

If anything it stinks of some punk person who is trying too hard. Taking it to Huff and whining about it doesn't help the cause either. So a publisher passed on it. Get over it you pompous clown.

I wouldn't buy that book so the publisher made a rational, judgment call.

Go to another publisher.

These are the same sort of folks who believe the government should fund the arts and that they deserve money "just because." Just because they believe they should be heard.

How about this? In the wise words of Mordecai Richler who said, after being asked what should writers do if they don't government support, "write better."

[Eduard van Haalen]

"I suffered for my art - now it's the taxpayers' turn"

[SusanM]

No Skin Off Your Ass...

[VG Zaytsev]

Or self publish through Amazon.

[cavalier973]

"Incestual Bestiality" might be a good name for a rock'n'roll band.

[cavalier973]

Meh. Thinking it over, it sounds better as the name of an album.

[DK]

Hey, Rollo, I thought you offed yourself yesterday in Colorado.

[Sevo]

Can't be! That twit was supposedly good at debate; Rollo wouldn't make Jr Varsity.

[Corning]

Public schools.

Any left wing nut job who defends union run schools will be praised as a debate master.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Debate master?

You had gold in your hands, Corning, and you wasted it! Gold, Corning...GOLD!

[Sevo]

"Corning...GOLD!"
Not sure it's THAT good, but it sure got me laughing!

[Sevo]

Oh, and I'd much rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Depending on what's in the bottle, it may feel like a pre-frontal lobotomy afterwards.

I refer to tequila, of course.

[SweatingGin]

The kid was too young to be Buttplug or Tony. Are there any kid-trolls we haven't seen lately? Maybe a missing KosKid?

[PapayaSF]

I say it's a Media Matters intern on Christmas break.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Rollo says Bush fucked up the economy?

Rollo! Eight years of Bush and he left the Great Recession, -9% GDP, trillion dollar deficits, -750,000 jobs a month and two lost wars?

How can you say he REALLY fucked up though? Like - we are not in Mad Max territory!

[cavalier973]

DON'T do it! Kimber! Rollo didn't save on his car insurance with Geico!

[Rollo]

Finally someone gets it. Odd that it's a Sarah Palin supporter.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I only support the fecal matter that dribbles out of her main orifice.

[cavalier973]

See, it's comments like this that mark you as a trolling sock puppet.

Seriously? "Odd that it's a Sarah Palin supporter."
I mean, seriously?

[Palin's Buttplug]

How would Rollo know that?

There are plenty of libertarians who laughed at the Snow Snooki. Right here in fact.

Your presumption is that all libertarians are Bible-beating hicks.

[cavalier973]

Presumption? What? "Bible-beating hicks"?

I don't even know what you're talking about, and it's quite clear that neither do you.

Your name is "Palin's Buttplug". It's a derogatory handle. If he assumes you are a "Palin supporter", then he's probably dead, now, because he's too stupid to breathe.

[Rollo]

Now I know it's derogatory, but how many times have you heard men wish they were a sexy woman's tampon? There are multiple interpretations. Fuck you and your binary thinking.

[cavalier973]

Right back at ya, Slick.

[Rollo]

The P.W. Herman school of debate. LOL

[Heroic Mulatto]

Actually, all thinking is, by definition, "binary". A neuron can either be excited or not.

Jus' sayin'

[Rollo]

Your priggish definition quoting is almost as funny as your name! e.g. not at all. LOL

That this site allows people to name themselves with derogatory racial terms for our President is simultaneously totally inappropriate and very fitting.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Now I know you're a troll.

[cavalier973]

And a sock puppet. I suspect he's one of the regular posters.

[Old Man With Candy]

Now I know you're a troll.

Then why are you feeding it?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

A tag team?

Progman and Mr. Classical Liberal.

Ugh.

[Sevo]

This is GREAT! Two prize-winning imbeciles dukeing it out!
Go, Rollo! Hit him with a right! Go shreek, try a left hook! Kick him in the nuts!
But please, both of you, please bleed only on yourselves; this site doesn't look good in red.

[cavalier973]

...how many times have you heard men wish they were a sexy woman's tampon?

That would be zero, until now. But it's the sort of thinking I would expect from you, if you were real, and not a trolling sock puppet.

[Rollo]

Do you think Prince Charles is a fake sockpuppet too?

[Palin's Buttplug]

There are so called "libertarians" that rush out to defend Bible Spice whenever she is mentioned here.

You know that.

'John' the GOPist gets a fucking fever whenever I post out of lovesickness for her.

Don't play stupid.

[Sevo]

Don't let 'em get away with that, shreek! Hit him with your 'superior logic'!
Great battle! Hit him again!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Shut up, Sevo.

You bite the empty air.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|12.14.13 @ 10:28PM|#
"Shut up, Sevo."

shreek! Don't let him sucker-punch you like that! Get back in there!

[DesigNate]

Ok, "Bible Spice" made me chuckle. Otherwise you are still a raving inbred retard demfag.

[Rollo]

Dar dar dar ... keep defending her, maybe she'll put out for you. LOL

[Corning]

Rollo meets Shrike!!!

Another fucking magical Christmas season moment at hit and run!!

[anon]

Drunk and spent too many hours playing Catan with the in-laws; this particular sentiment made me laugh.

[Sevo]

"Like - we are not in Mad Max territory!"
Give your fave lying POS time, asshole. He's trying.

[SusanM]

I think that might have been better.

Anyway, how've things gotten better? Are we living in Progtopia yet?

[Palin's Buttplug]

No, we are living in Capitalistopia. If you are not making money with record corporate earnings and record market highs you are fucking loser douchebag.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|12.14.13 @ 10:03PM|#
"No, we are living in Capitalistopia. If you are not making money with record corporate earnings and record market highs you are fucking loser douchebag."

Yep, just like record RE values meant everyone was livin' on Easy Street in 2008!
Pathetic.

[PapayaSF]

I LOVE IT when progs defend Obama's miserable economic record by pointing at the stock market, something they'd excoriate a conservative for doing. Hey, never mind high unemployment, the rising cost of living, and more homelessness. They don't care about that stuff when Top Man (D) is in charge.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I can't speak for "progs" but I can for capitalists and I will bludgeon you like a fat tick.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|12.14.13 @ 10:22PM|#
"I can't speak for "progs" but I can for capitalists and I will bludgeon you like a fat tick."

What happened? Did Rollo kick you out of the ring?
Get back in there, champ! You can beat him!
He's a rank amateur compared to your stupidity! Hit him from the left and claim it's right!

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I can't speak for "progs" but I can for capitalists and I will bludgeon you like a fat tick.

The only thing you've ever bludgeoned is your pecker in front of an Obama poster.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Again, Palin, I want to know are you actually invested in the market?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Now all I need before bed is for Tony to show up and add to this sad, miserable spectacle.

I need a Zantac.

Worse, Dexilant.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

As usual, Palin doesn't answer my question.

[Corning]

you are fucking loser douchebag

So progressive.

[DK]

Hmmm... Looking at one of Rollo's comments above, the copied timestamp has been shifted 18 hours ahead. That would put him in New Zealand (or some other Pacific island). Are there any regulars from New Zealand?

[Sevo]

I missed that, but timestamps don't lie. Could be eastern Oz also, but none come to mind.

[Eduard van Haalen]

David Bernstein, a law professor at George Mason, considers this hypothetical: what if a caterer and a photographer refused to cater/photograph a bris because of moral objections to circumcision? I mean, alldecent people agree this would be bigoted and wrong, but is it anti-Jewish discrimination in the nondiscrimination-law context? Or is it rather simply an irrational but not intrinsically anti-Jewish objection to a particular ceremony? And anyway, how does catering a bris make you complicit in it?

(Some of the questions are from the prof, some from me)

http://www.volokh.com/2013/12/.....tion-jews/

[Heroic Mulatto]

but is it anti-Jewish discrimination in the nondiscrimination-law context? Or is it rather simply an irrational but not intrinsically anti-Jewish objection to a particular ceremony?

Well, does he also refuse to photograph Muhammad ibn Muhammad's Khitan as well?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Well, *someone* photographrd Muhammad's kitten:

http://cheezburger.com/1909372160

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

They aren't the same. The caterer is objecting to the bris because it involves circumcision. It has nothing to do with the customer's Jewishness. If Gentiles who circumcised their sons made a celebration of it the caterer would still refuse to take part in it by providing food.

By contrast, the Colorado baker does provide service to weddings, but he arbitrarily decided to not serve gay customers. Now of course the libertarian would say that is his right under freedom of association, but the courts interpret it differently by saying that if you offer a service to the public you must serve all or none.

So while the baker can put up a sign saying "I don't bake wedding cakes" he can't put up a sign that says "I don't bake wedding cakes for gay weddings."

[Heroic Mulatto]

So while the baker can put up a sign saying "I don't bake wedding cakes" he can't put up a sign that says "I don't bake wedding cakes for gay weddings."

Because I'm bored and just want to speculate, what if the baker set up his business as a private "club"? That is, you pay a monthly fee to be part of the club and one of the benefits of being part of the club is ordering a cake from the bakery? Private organizations can have certain restrictions on membership, right? (Think: The Boy Scouts)

[Eduard van Haalen]

He can call it the Master Baker Club.

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

It's true what they say about Catholic boys and gutter minds.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You have to scroll back to @9:35 to really appreciate it.

[Sevo]

HM,
It was a GOOD ONE, but you're casting pearls before swine.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Your honor, it wasn't my fault, I fell among libertarians.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

You could do that, yes. As long as you aren't offering a public accommodation or service to the public.

Of course the courts could try to circumvent that by saying the bakery is involved in interstate commerce. And there are myriad of ways the state and local governments can crackdown on you with property taxes and zoning and such.

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

The courts are unlikely to uphold that; having a bris is a proxy for being Jewish.

Otherwise, the cakemaker could easily avoid serving gay weddings by saying he will not bake cakes for weddings if the spouses intend to engage in anal sex or cunnilingus.

[Heroic Mulatto]

The courts are unlikely to uphold that; having a bris is a proxy for being Jewish.

Depends on how deep it goes into the courts. If they reference Jewish law, they'll find that while brit milah is strongly recommended for Jewish males, it is not a prerequisite.

[Eduard van Haalen]

I hadn't known that.

[Heroic Mulatto]

According to Jewish law what makes a newborn Jewish is that his mother was a Jew. While circumcision is seen as fulfilling Abraham's convent with God, still considers a boy born of a Jewish mother Jewish even if he wasn't circumcised. Likewise, male converts to Judaism aren't required to be circumcised.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wow, what makes the male convert Jewish, then?

[Heroic Mulatto]

IANAR* but as far as I know a male convert goes to a rabbi and declares his desire to practice Judaism, and after a short period where the potential convert studies up on Judaism and basically tries to prove that they are sincere, the take a dip in the ritual bath, and then say the Jewish pronunciation of faith "Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One." After that, they take a Jewish name, to be used in prayer and ritual and from then on, he is considered fully Jewish. Some converts do perform a ritual of pricking...no...piercing their foreskin to draw a drop of blood, but again, it's not a prerequisite to be Jewish.

*I am not a Rabbi

[Heroic Mulatto]

I would like to reiterate though, Jewish law states that circumcision is something all good Jewish men should do, but for the purposes of religious law, a boy born of a Jewish mother who was never circumcised for whatever reason is still considered Jewish.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I would like to reiterate though, Jewish law states that circumcision is something all good Jewish men should do, but for the purposes of religious law, a boy who was never circumcised for whatever reason, but born of a Jewish mother, is still considered Jewish.

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

Uh, yeah, but he's a Jew who's breaking the covenant, which is worse from Judaism's POV than not being a Jew at all. It would be like BO arguing in court that a baptized Catholic who procures condoms and abortions for his employees is still considered Catholic, therefore the Obamacare requirements to pay for those things don't violate free exercise.

[Warrren]

Let's not make a mountain out of a Mohel.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Cut it out.

[Winston]

This subthread is a real schnorrer.

[Warrren]

I don't believe in the initiation of foreskin.

[Winston]

Hmm, I was reading about the novel Die Hard was based on. Hans Gruber's name was Tony and his goal was too prove the oil company was in league with Pinochet. I guess they were supposed to be Baader-Meinhoff Gang? Also it was a sequel to a novel that was filmed with Frank Sinatra in the lead!

[Warrren]

And Sinatra had to be offered the role in the sequel. Can you imagine an aging and doddering Sinatra in the Willis role?

I can, and it's glorious.

[JeremyR]

Pretty good novel, though the movie is better.

Instead of a cop talking to him, it's a guy on a CB radio.

Instead of his wife, it's his daughter.

And Frank Sinatra sent Bruce Willis an engraved watch, I think the inscription was "From one detective to another". Pretty cool of him.

Too bad his supposed son is such a tool

[cavalier973]

The fake interpreter.

Favorite comment:

"Obama speaks in B.S.; the guy signs in B.S. What's the problem?"

[Winston]

Do they play Horse Hockey?

[cavalier973]

Yet another reason to homeschool.

What do you expect, taking prayer and Bible reading out of public school?

[LIFE.time.opertunity]

my neighbor's sister-in-law makes 61 USD/hour on the internet. She has been laid off for eight months but last month her pay check was 19482 USD just working on the internet for a few hours. why not find out more
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[alaamiah]

Thank you very much

[alaamiah]

Muito Obrigado