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No, Jill Stein Did Not Cost Hillary Clinton the White House

Senate Russia investigation leads to new rounds of innumerate analysis and bad-faith dot-connecting.

The December 17 reports commissioned by the Senate Intelligence Committee on Russian attempts to influence the 2016 presidential election have breathed new life into the old Democrat complaint that Green Party nominee Jill Stein cost Hillary Clinton the presidency.

Here's a representative reaction, from former FBI counterterrorism specialist Ali H. Soufan, that was retweeted by former Democratic National Committee Chair Howard Dean:

This apparently is a lesson that requires re-learning and re-re-learning, no matter how many times Howard Dean says batty stuff like, "Had Stein not been on the ballot we might not have Trump." Even granting Dean's anti-competitive hypothetical of removing either a disfavored second-time candidate or an entire political party that has been in the presidential arena since 1996, there is zero reason to believe that a Green-less campaign would have resulted in a Trump-less White House.

Take the most plausible of those figures above—Stein receiving five times the number of votes in Michigan that separated Trump from Hillary Clinton. How would Stein voters have voted without Stein?

While the answer is unknowable, we do have national exit polls that shed some light. For instance, CBS News asked Stein voters what they would have done if faced with a ballot featuring only Clinton and Trump. Result: 61 percent said they wouldn't vote, 25 percent said they'd vote for Clinton, 14 percent said Trump. Applying that formula to Michigan would not be enough to make up that 10,704-vote gap:

You'd have to take an additional 10 percent of the Michigan electorate out of the wouldn't-vote camp and move each and every one into the Hillary camp to cover that Trump-Clinton spread. But wait! Keep in mind that the exit poll removed all third-party candidates as options, even though the Michigan ballot also included Libertarian||| Wall Street JournalWall Street Journal Gary Johnson (who received 3.59 percent in the state), Stein (1.07 percent), U.S. Taxpayers nominee Darrell Castle (0.33 percent), and the Socialist Party's Angela Nicole Walker (0.05 percent). Given the record-high unfavorability ratings of the two major-party candidates, I think it's more likely that surgically removing only Stein's name and party from the ballot would reduce, not increase, the amount of would-be Green support that exit polls found for two-party candidates.

Don't take my word for it? Try FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver: "[B]oth pre-election polls and the national exit poll suggests that a lot of [third-party voters] wouldn't have voted at all, if they'd been forced to pick between the two major candidates. The breakdown might have been something like 35 percent Clinton, 10 percent Trump and 55 percent wouldn't vote. That doesn't wind up netting very many votes for HRC."

Or the Wall Street Journal's Byron Tau:

[A Wall Street Journal] analysis, in which third-party votes [in eight swing states] were reassigned to both Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton, finds that Mrs. Clinton would have needed to win 70% of the vote share that went to the Libertarian and Green parties across all eight states to claim victory….In another scenario, even if every one of Ms. Stein's left-leaning supporters is assigned to Mrs. Clinton in those same eight states, she still would have needed to win more than 50% of Mr. Johnson's supporters to flip enough states to win the election.

Or Vox, or the Washington Post, or whoever looked at the issue with rationality instead of emotion.

Then there's the fact that a post-election poll giving voters a chance for a do-over showed more, not less, support for both Stein and Johnson, with the only real pro-Clinton reversal action coming from those millions of people who sat the election out (including millions of people who voted in November 2016 but left their presidential ballots blank).

There are other bad Stein-related arguments making the rounds in the wake of the Senate Russia reports. For instance, this widely cited NBC News analysis engages in some rhetorical sleight of hand:

There's nothing in the reports to suggest that Stein was aware of the influence operation, but the Massachusetts physician has long been criticized for her support of international policies that mirror Russian foreign policy goals.

Note the almost infinitely elastic use in that sentence of the word but. Did Stein's Russia-related foreign policy depart noticeably from that either of the Green Party or the progressive left writ large? The article is silent on the question, but the general answer is decidedly "no." Here, for example, is the most successful Green Party presidential candidate in history, Ralph Nader, writing in 2014 in direct response to Russia annexing Crimea:

The Russians have their own troubles, of course, but they do have a legitimate complaint and fear about the United States' actions following the collapse of the Soviet Union. Led by President William Jefferson Clinton, the United States pushed for the expansion of the military alliance NATO to include the newly independent Eastern European countries. This was partly a business deal to get these countries to buy United States fighter aircrafts from Lockheed Martin and partly a needless provocation of a transformed adversary trying to get back on its feet….

The NATO provocation was only one of the West's arrogant treatments of post-Soviet Russia, pointed out in the writings of Russian specialist, NYU professor Stephen Cohen (see his pieces in The Nation here). That sense of disrespect, coupled with the toppling of the elected pro-Russian President of Ukraine in February, 2014 (which was not lawful despite his poor record) is why Mr. Putin's absorption of Crimea and his history-evoking speech before the Parliament, was met with massive support in Russia even by many of those who have good reasons to not like his authoritarian government.

You can disagree with the America-provoked-Russia-by-expanding-NATO argument, as indeed I do, without tagging those who believe it—including many and perhaps most libertarians—as Russian stooges. The modern history of anti-interventionism was filled with don't-poke-the-bear analysis and skepticism about America's expanding global role long before Vladimir Putin was a household name.

Yes, it's weird that Stein attended that RT dinner in Russia attended by future admitted felon Michael Flynn (as well as 2012 Justice Party presidential nominee Rocky Anderson!), but the intimation that she was somehow working in parallel with Putin would seem to require more data points. Here's NBC News's best effort:

[T]he Stein campaign parroted the Russian position on Ukraine in 2016 and criticized the U.S. for installing a government in Kiev "hostile to Russia."

Yes, Stein serially criticized the U.S. for backing regime change in Ukraine, and for provoking Russia via NATO expansion—both reasonably Putinesque points. But she also in this August 2016 Washington Post interview explicitly rejected "moral equivalence" between Washington and Moscow, and when asked "What do you think Putin's goals are?" answered "Not good. Not good. I would have no faith and trust in Putin, but on the other hand I think to be needlessly militarizing this conflict is not in the interest of the American people."

Does that qualify as "parroted"?

The only other specific foreign policy area NBC News gets into is this:

In the closing weeks of the campaign, RT quoted Stein suggesting that Hillary Clinton could lead the U.S. into a nuclear war with Russia and saying Trump was a safer choice.

"On the issue of war and nuclear weapons," Stein said, according to RT, "it is actually Hillary's policies which are much scarier than Donald Trump who does not want to go to war with Russia."

This passage seems pretty Russia-focused and Trump-positive, but the source material is actually about Syria, and is not kind to the Republican. Here are the words that immediately precede the above quote:

It is now Hillary Clinton that wants to start an air war with Russia over Syria by calling for a no-fly zone. We have 2000 nuclear missiles on hairtrigger alert. They are saying we are closer to a nuclear war than we have ever been. Under Hillary Clinton, we could slide into nuclear war very quickly from her declared policy in Syria. I sure won't sleep well at night if Donald Trump is elected, but I sure won't sleep well at night if Hillary Clinton elected. We have another choice other than these two candidates who are both promoting lethal policies.

Again, this is pretty standard analysis from America's anti-interventionist tradition, left or right. And let's not forget Clinton's recent response to Trump's announced troop-withdrawal from Syria:

The Mueller investigation may yet uncover actual ties between Stein and Moscow, as opposed to the non-earth-shattering evidence that Russian social media outfits sent pro-Stein messages into the world. But I wouldn't count on it. Americans who don't like the existence of left-leaning third parties will eventually have to confront the reality that such presidential candidates tend to do better in elections following eight years of Democratic control of the White House, and that one of the main points of policy difference will be a desire for less U.S. involvement in war. As Jesse Walker memorably observed, when it comes to sowing discord in America, Russians can't compete with Americans.

Photo Credit: Van Tine Dennis/ABACA/Newscom

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  • colorblindkid||

    The fact that the 4.5 million Gary voters are still completely ignored by the press and both parties is ridiculous.

    I revel in the thought of ruining elections for people, and being blamed for "throwing away my vote". Everybody who says such a thing can fuck right off.

  • SchillMcGuffin||

    I second your sentiment. I've replied in a variety of ways to those who've claimed entitlement to my vote, but I think the most persuasive is "The major parties can have my vote when they start pandering to me".

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    I expect America to continue to progress, and nicely, without devoting too much attention to impractical malcontents.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Arthur L. Hicklib's programming kicked on again.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    You do not seem to be enjoying your lifetime of obedience to liberal-libertarian progress and the crushing of conservatism in the culture war.

    I am content.

  • Curly4||

    That view is the reason that the United States is less than it should be. Every body wants to know what the government will do for them and not what they can do for the nation.
    Make America Great first. So far America has only been mediocre because every body is out for themselves. Then after America becomes Great then Trump can MAGA.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Every body wants to know what the government will do for them and not what they can do for the nation.

    Yo holmes did you just paraphrase JFK paraphrasing FDR?

  • Qsl||

    Ya.

    If we are honest, neither Stein nor Johnson were incredible candidates. Losing any votes to them has got to be salt in the wound.

    But the fact a goodish portion of people did prefer them to either of the major candidates speaks more to the failure of the major parties than the home-wrecking nature of third parties. The corollary is that if all the Hilary supporters voted for Stein, we'd be looking at a very different presidency now. I see no reason why the onus should be strictly on third parties to bridge the gap.

    Alienate your potential voters less, and maybe we can start talking about major parties stealing away third party voters, but I doubt it.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    Yeah, being ignored even in the above.

    The Green party isn't so much a third party, as a fourth; Stein got a third the votes Johnson did, and didn't even manage ballot access in every state.

  • Fats of Fury||

    Gary IN doesn't have 4.5 million voters.

  • colorblindkid||

    To put it in scale: Gary Johnson got around the same number of votes as the entire population of Ireland. America is fucking huge, which is why whenever people compare us to small homogeneous European countries I tell them they're frickin morons.

  • A Lady of Reason||

    Hillary's lies and dishonesty did... I want a woman president within my lifetime, but not one who is just as dirty as any male politician!
    https://aladyofreason.wordpress.com/

  • Agammamon||

    Why do you want a *woman* President? Aren't we trying to get away from the focus on people's skin color or genitals?

    That's how you got G.W.Bush's 3rd and 4th terms.

    You'll get a woman President once people stop wanting a woman President.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    And Nillary Clinton is only marginally human. As they don't check for a soul.

  • I'm Not Sure||

    "but not one who is just as dirty as any male politician!"

    What makes you think there are any?

  • esteve7||

    This whole push has always been because democrats cannot fathom how their golden girl lost. They live in such an echo chamber and didn't know a single Trump supporter, so there's no way that guy could ever be president!

    People say Trump had a cult following. No, Hillary did. Her supporters deluded themselves into thinking she was this amazing candidate, and ignored all of her faults ---- everyone who didn't like her was evil, you know.

    Well their world came crashing down. Unable to actually do some soul searching, they lash out as conspiracy theories instead. They could never accept Hillary was the most flawed, unlikable candidate to ever run for president in the modern times.

  • Dan S.||

    They both had "cult" followers, and they both had other supporters. Hillary had more total people voting for her, but they were not distributed across the country the way the Electoral College system requires, so she lost.

  • Social Justice is neither||

    Your second sentence would only matter if states like California had votes that mattered for the opposition party. There was no representation for anything beyond Democrats on the ballot and the winner-take-all electoral college rules mean there isn't representation there either so why bother? There were some ballot measures to vote on but for representation my voice counted for zero meaningful possibilities beyond measures like "more total people voting for them" with zero value beyond ego stoking if it works.

  • Agammamon||

    Sooooo, does anyone want a German Shepherd, female, spayed, 1-1.5 years old? Great with people, dogs, and other animals her size, will murder the hell out of everything else smaller than her.

  • Freddy the Jerk||

    I'll see your German Shepherd and raise you a Chihuahua that subsists on a diet consisting solely of child fingers. And who would gladly chew its way through your Shepherd's entrails.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Honey-chihuahua don't care. Hone-chihuahua don't give a shit.

  • Dillinger||

    i want all the dogs.

  • Agammamon||

    I'm serious. She's incredibly well mannered - its just that she's killed two goats and two rabbits now. The rabbits . . . well that was basically all the rabbits' fault as they dug out of their pen and she snagged them in the yard. But the goats man. She had to work to get to them.

    On the plus side, that was when they were new to us. She's been socialized with them under supervision long enough that she won't kill the new ones if she's left alone with them during the day.

    I don't know, maybe I'll keep her. Going to have to tear the rabbit pen down and rebuild it though. Gonna get a load of cement and dig a trench to set the fence in so the next ones can't dig under it.

  • Dillinger||

    (amateur opinion - Dillinger Millan) extensive walking / working Shepherds helps keep them *less* insane but that's all I ever tell anyone - walk your dog! ... good luck!

  • Agammamon||

    I do walk her daily. Plus she has free run of 3/4 acres of the lot and another dog to play with all day.

    But in the time between when she gets up in the morning and I get up in the morning she's . . . very determined to find trouble.

    I had to rebuild the fence because she *climbs* it. Not jumps, climbs up the chain link. She can't get over it now but the ground is soft so she'll start trying to dig soon - good news is I found out the electric fence works (its intended to stop goats from getting out and coyotes from getting in - and a GSD is about as determined and tough as a coyote) so a wire extension at ground level will prevent that.

  • Ecoli||

    Maybe you should run her for president.

    She has a vagina, though non functional.

  • Robert||

    Pussy cats?

  • TuIpa||

    Fuck off Hihn.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Hihn should run for President. He can challenge Weld for it. Just imagine him incoherently crashing LP primary events. Ranting and raving about the shit he pukes out here.

    Pure comedy gold.

  • Mock-star||

    That would be awesome

  • Rat on a train||

    Is her name Blondi?

  • Rockabilly||

    When democrats win, the election was fair, when they lose, the election was somehow rigged (Russian robots) and/or the 3rd party candidate (Jill Stein) stole Hillary's vote.

    It was Hillary's turn, everyone said so. And Obama said she was the most qualified candidate ever. Even more qualified than Jefferson, Adams, and Lincoln.

    So tears....endless tears...

  • The Last American Hero||

    I really didn't think I'd be drinking salty ham tears at this point, but I think the supply may last another 6 years.

  • JesseAz||

    Wait for the honorary fake president awards when she dies.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    The eulogizing by the leftists will be insufferable. But I will have many opportunities to cackle in between.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Now you're starting to understand how your betters have felt about making your stale, bigoted, authoritarian right-wing references irrelevant in the culture war.

    Your obedience has been appreciated. Whine all you want.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Democrats are entitled to Green votes and Republicans are entitled to Libertarian votes. How dare those rubbishy little third parties steal what doesn't belong to them!

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Just the libertarians - stealing violates the NAP.
    Greens are Ok with stealing, particularly if it's an authoritarian government doing the taking.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    I voted for Gary but Weld wanted me to vote Hilary. Go figure.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Quite the Sunday surprise there.

  • TuIpa||

    "Yes-huh!"

  • Dillinger||

    Howard Dean is still a thing?

  • NoVaNick||

    I took the progs' obsession with him as the first sign that they were seriously mentally disturbed.

  • Weygand||

    His was the most re-affirming collapse in American political history.

    God that was fucking enrichment to my soul.

  • Robert||

    We got doctors, they got doctors.

  • TuIpa||

    Fuck off Hihn.

  • Hoofddorp Haarlemmermeer||

    It's hard to believe anyone quotes that guy anymore.

  • ||

    Yeh and he wants his war with Syria because Trump.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    "Howard Dean is still a thing?"

    Yes, I should say so. Far more than he is a person.

  • Mcgoo95||

    Of course Jill Stein didn't cost the Helldabeast the presidency. However, Comey very may well have. Perhaps his guilt is why he behaves like such a twot these days.

  • JesseAz||

    Comey forced Huma to forget she was sending classified Clinton emails to her husband's computer for convenience?

  • Mcgoo95||

    Of course not. Might've been just bad timing. Doesn't really matter why he opened the investigation, only that he did so publicly and quite vocally. He could've kept it out of the public eye until the election was over, which was less than a week away.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Hopefully Mueller will arrest Jill Stein and then Hillary will finally be president.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    That's just crazy enough to work!

  • NoVaNick||

    As usual, Democrats blame everyone but themselves for their failure.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    Remove Stein from running? She was the best straight man in comedy during every debate. Why does everyone want to take away my entertainment?

  • Ken Shultz||

    The basic logic on the left goes like this:

    Trump is to blame for Hillary losing.

    Trump is not the reason why he won.

    That seem strange? It's consistent. Here's another example:

    Trump is to blame for the Dow falling 500 points on Monday.

    Trump is not the reason why the Dow spiked 1,000 points today.

    Claro?

    Have you ever had a girlfriend, where once she moved in, somehow everything that went wrong in her life was your fault, and if anything goes right (in your life or hers) somehow it was all in spite of your efforts but certainly not because of them?

    Trump deserves credit for some things. His tax package and deregulation did wonders for the economy--and the stock market. The trade war has been a downer, but the volatility we've been seeing is mostly about the Fed unwinding their Bernanke/Yellen era bond-buying activity. That's life and human nature. We take credit for good things that often have little to do with our input, and we blame bad things on other people.

    Something bad happened to the Democrats in November of 2016, and the Democrats have to blame on somebody. Obviously, it can't be their fault! But it can't be that Trump outsmarted them at their own game either, so, yeah, if Jill Stein weighs more than a duck, she's a witch!

  • Tony||

    Timely.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Did Jill Stein make Hillary shit out that "deplorables" snark? That's what cost her the election. Stupid, arrogant bitch.

    -jcr

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    People in the 'basket of deplorables' prefer political correctness to an accurate accounting of their failures and deficiencies.

  • Sevo||

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|12.26.18 @ 6:01PM|#
    "People in the 'basket of deplorables' prefer political correctness to an accurate accounting of their failures and deficiencies."

    Assholes like you prefer thuggery to negotiation.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Arty should run as Hihn's running mate for The 2020 LP nomination. The entertainment value of those two deranged idiots trying to rderail Weld........

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Good heavens. Hillary was referring to the alt-right Nazis with her "deplorables" comment. It was the right-wing media types who twisted her comment into Hillary calling all Republicans "deplorables".

  • Tony||

    Doing the math (like a nerd) is to deliberately obscure the point. She could very well have cost Hillary the election like Nader did Gore. That's what 3rd party candidates do, they spoil. That she possibly didn't quite get the numbers over the finish line in those all-important (and lovely, I'm sure) states doesn't mean that the principle isn't true. All it means is that her Russian backers didn't get enough Facebook morons to finish the job. Luckily for them they didn't need her.

  • John C. Randolph||

    What utter bullshit. Gore wasn't entitled to the votes that Nader got. He failed, and trying to blame his failure on Nader, or any other candidate, is nothing but a whine.

    -jcr

  • Tony||

    If you can say the Electoral College is a super swell way of electing a president, even when that president got millions fewer votes of the people he's going to be president of, then I can say third party egotists are bad for the system in which only one of two parties will win the seat.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|12.26.18 @ 5:26PM|#
    "If you can say the Electoral College is a super swell way of electing a president, even when that president got millions fewer votes of the people he's going to be president of,"
    The EC is a wonderful way of keeping fucking scumbags like you from enforcing your thuggery on the rest of us.

    "...then I can say third party egotists are bad for the system in which only one of two parties will win the seat."
    Given your stupidity, no one here is surprised at you posting such bullshit.

  • Tony||

    You like the EC because it keeps putting Republicans in office against the majority will of the American people. If it did the same for Democrats, you'd revile it. That's the truth and there's no point in denying it.

    Principles over whatever the fuck my goddamn ass.

  • TuIpa||

    " If it did the same for Democrats, you'd revile it. That's the truth and there's no point in denying it."

    You sound like a fat southern hick preaching at the dinner table.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|12.26.18 @ 5:58PM|#
    "You like the EC because it keeps putting Republicans in office against the majority will of the American people. If it did the same for Democrats, you'd revile it. That's the truth and there's no point in denying it."
    I prefer the EC since it helps keep murderous fucking scumbags like you at bay. That's the truth and there's no point in denying it.

    "Principles over whatever the fuck my goddamn ass."
    Perfectly understandable from a scumbag who has none.

  • Tony||

    Unlike radical pacifist G.W. Bush.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|12.26.18 @ 8:32PM|#
    "Unlike radical pacifist G.W. Bush."
    Post when you're not fucking incoherent-drunk, scumbag.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    I think most of us would like a system wherein 3rd parties could actually be a viable alternative to the republicrats. The EC only saves us from the pure democracy you crave
    At least when it comes to presidential elections we're still a republic.

  • WoodChipperBob||

    "keeps putting Republicans in office against the majority will of the American people"
    You keep saying that word 'majority'. But it doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean more than the other guy, it means more than half. A majority of the American people voted against Clinton. A majority of the American people voted against Gore. A majority also voted against Trump and against Bush.

  • Brian||

    Tony:
    "...against the majority will of the American people..."

    Actually, the majority will of the American people was to skip voting entirely. There's no reason to take that as an endorsement of Clinton, but I see why you'd like pretending so.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't feel like amending the constitution must because about 27% of people didn't get their pony.

  • TuIpa||

    "If you can say the Electoral College "

    What I say is irrelevant on the matter. The rules of the game are the rules of the game. Feel free to change that or leave for greener pastures.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Our system's structural amplification of yahoo voices -- in the Senate, in the Electoral College -- is one of three legs of the Republicans' remaining electoral strategy (gerrymandering and voter suppression are the other things that keep conservatives electorally relevant).

    As our electorate improves, however, the rickety nature of the Republican electoral life preserver becomes more apparent. Trump needed an improbable three-cushion bank shot to become president, and I doubt right-wingers will benefit from too many of those longshots.

    Change or die, Republicans. I vote "die."

  • TuIpa||

    Sounds like just more of you complaining because you lost to an orange clown.

  • Hoofddorp Haarlemmermeer||

    Rev. Arthur L. Twatwaffle: "Only Californians should be picking the President, not any of those little unenlightened yahoo states."

  • Social Justice is neither||

    Go right ahead Arthur. (Note to DAs: this is not intended as advise or encouragement of a deeply troubled individual for which I and not he will be held responsible for any action taken, it's sarcasm.)

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Arty, you have a fraction of my intelligence, and none of my education. You are a garbage pail person, acting as if he is somehow elite.

    You are not elite. In fact, you are not even adequate. If you and your friends push too hard, my friends have all the guns and the training to use them. Your attempts at tyranny will not go well.

    Best you just GTFO now, while you can. Venezuela is warm this time of year, and they practice the kind of shit you worship slavishly. I sure you will enjoy the comraderie their.

    Now off with you shitbag. Be grateful you have been tolerated this long.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    You've been getting your right-wing ass kicked in the culture war throughout your lifetime, and all you have to show for it is a bunch of whimpering and a nice record of obedience. Your all-talk coping mechanism is noted, and disdained.

    Carry on, clinger. So far as your betters are willing to tolerate your bigoted right-wingery, but not beyond that.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Arty, all I've seen out of,you is the same tired bullshit over hundreds of comments. You're stupid and weak. If Reason ever had a Vegas convention, I would love to person. Just to see you beg and grovel before me.

    Stupid bitch. Your break is over. Back to your glory hole.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    And it's arrogant for any democrat to assume that those third party votes would all magically be cast for the democrat in the third party candidate's abscence. In Stein's case, some of those people would have written some one else in, voted for Johnson or Trump, or just stayed home and not voted at all.

  • Brian||

    Maybe letting people skip voting spoils elections.

    Or letting people Facebook spoils elections.

    Or letting practically anyone run for president spoils elections.

    It's almost as if voters spoil elections.

    Try harder. Yawn.

  • Agammamon||

    Would be so much better if there were only one party allowed, amirite?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Amd with lots of 'superdelegates'. So things don't get messy.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Well certainly it wasn't Hillary's own fault that she lost!

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Of course not. It was all the white women who vote for whoever their husband/boss/boyfriend tells them to.

  • Mickey Rat||

    That still is funny as hell that Hilary would publicly say something like that. It shows what a tin ear she has for public relations, as well as being an awful endorsement of identity politics. By her lights, women would naturally be Democrats except they are dominated by the men in their lives. She lost because that is actually how she thinks and the voters sense it.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    It doesn't surprise me. Bear in mind that she thinks 1984 was the feel-good story of the year.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    I told my concubines to vote Stein. I probably single handedly gave Trump the win.

  • Tony||

    She had high unfavorability numbers. No denying that. So among the many causes of the election outcome, she shares some blame. Of course she wasn't as unfavorable as Trump, so that's an iffy metric to hang it all on, isn't it? For that matter, Trump has the charisma of a live chainsaw in a pet store and is shrill as fuck.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    I know you voted for Hillary like I did, but you're being unfair here. Her high negatives were the result of a decades-long right-wing smear campaign that began when she was First Lady. And even with this abhorrent treatment, nevertheless, she persisted. She put together a fantastic record as Senator and Secretary of State, and it seemed like the Presidency was within reach.

    Unfortunately, the powers that be wouldn't allow it. The media manufactured an e-mail scandal out of nothing. In a display of raw sexism, people speculated she wasn't physically healthy enough to serve 4 to 8 years. Then her minor fainting incident was endlessly replayed, as if it somehow confirmed the talk about her health. With such relentlessly negative coverage, of course she didn't have a high favorability rating.

    #StillWithHer

  • Hoofddorp Haarlemmermeer||

    Yep Hillary Warmonger was a great Sec. of State - "C'mon Barack, let's bomb Libya - it'll bring freedom! And votes! But mostly freedom!"

  • Sevo||

    Tony|12.26.18 @ 5:29PM|#
    "She had high unfavorability numbers."

    She is and was a despicable human being with a baggage train long enough to require her own Porters Union local.
    Fuckwits like you still don't seem to understand selling political access as SoS and running your own comm system to avoid the FOIA sort of makes you stink to high heaven.

  • Tony||

    We wouldn't want a president who is corrupt with baggage.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Where "we" =/= half-educated, no-count, disaffected, gullible bigots.

  • TuIpa||

    Yes, you, he said that.

    Jfc...

  • Sevo||

    Tony|12.26.18 @ 5:58PM|#
    "We wouldn't want a president who is corrupt with baggage.
    report spam"

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|12.26.18 @ 6:06PM|#
    "Where "we" =/= half-educated, no-count, disaffected, gullible bigots."

    You two half-educated fuckwits deserve each other. Go whine somewhere else that the hag lost, losers.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    The Democrats' loss in 2016 could turn out to be great for them over the medium to long term. The Republican Party is being branded with bigotry, backwardness, corruption, and failure for at least a generation. Younger, educated Americans are forming lifelong voting patterns in an environment in which the conservative cause is perceived as elderly, stale, intolerant, rural, ignorant, and superstitious.

    Carry on, clingers.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I could totally see Tony and Arty fucking each other. Maybe they could apply for,joint domicile.

  • John C. Randolph||

    She had high unfavorability numbers.

    Yeah, that kind of goes with the territory of being a narcissistic, power-hungry cunt.

    -jcr

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    If the major party wankers are so superior to the third party candidates, why don't they engage the third parties and demolish them with their awesome major party talking points?

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    The major parties demolish the third-party fringe players every time when it counts.

  • Furzeydown||

    Except when they have their votes literally stolen from them apparently.

  • Mickey Rat||

    The Democrats ran a terrible candidate, but they do not want to publicly admit they ran a terrible candidate, presumably because the Clintonistas are still influential and vindictive.

  • middlefinger||

    Can't wait till the debates, 6 months away!! Greatest show on earth.

  • Brian||

    I'm sorry, but if you can't take responsibility for losing, then you don't deserve to run the free world. Dems the breaks.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Jill Stein is a hapless kook. Most of her voters are impractical nuts at the fringe. Her dalliance with Russia seems strange, and it would be good to know more about plenty of aspects of Russia's involvement in American electoral matters, but kooks such as Jill Stein act in strange manners. That's part of what puts them in the "kook" category. Whether she was counterproductive enough to make the difference in the election appears to be destined to be a point of enduring mystery.

  • Sevo||

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|12.26.18 @ 5:57PM|#
    "...it would be good to know more about plenty of aspects of Russia's involvement in American electoral matters, .."

    Ask that loser hag, asshole. Pretty sure she contracted with some Russkis in the hopes of digging up stuff on Trump.

  • Curly4||

    Many people may be blamed for Hillary's loss but truly there is only one person that is to be blamed. That person is Hillary herself. It is the choices that she made that cost her the presidency and her lack of a view of what could be.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    It's not her fault. It's the fault of those Applebee's diners who didn't recognize her, when she was disguised so that she didn't have to interact with common people.

  • middlefinger||

    The party is very angry at other members in the party, TDS? Apparently Perez is in-fighting with his own state D reps on collection of D voter data? I don't know what is going on, but its getting entertaining...stay tuned.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Unlike other Republicans cross-dressing as libertarians, Matt has serious problems with very simple arithmetic. The Libertarian party covered the gap in something like 13 states, swinging around 90 electoral votes, and is not the 900-pound gorilla in the room wherever Republicans plot to bring back Comstock coathanger abortions or eminences grises among the Dems seek to list electric power stations as Schedule 1 controlled substances. It is true that the law-changing clout works for looters. That's how the income tax, prohibition and everything else libertarians seek to repeal got enacted. The entire election hinged on energy, and half the voters (LP + GOP) were for, and the Communist, econazi and pansy left Bernouts were agin. I am thrilled that the GOP are still antichoice bigots and the dems communist puppets. Voters can see this, but do not realize their spoiler votes COULD change the laws--thanks to mendacities spouted by mental midgets like Matt and his looter sources.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    OMG! This video is GREAT!

    "We wish you a Mueller Christmas"

    #TrumpRussia
    #ItsMuellerTime
    #Impeach
    #Resist
    #NotMyPresident

  • Hank Phillips||

    Here are the vote counts on the energy planks: https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycev3gmv
    My spreadsheets indicate the LP weakened both parties within about 2%, and any fool can see energy split the popular vote count dead even. The county votes, more knowledgeable about electric power, won in the electoral college.
    If you are seeing this now it is because electric power is working where you are. If you don't, you may be in Venezuela, Puerto Rico or Northern Australia, or perhaps Germany or Denmark. The GOP never mention this except in their platform, and the Dems would do good to quit trying to drag the world back into the Dark Ages.

  • Jerryskids||

    The Dems are not trying to drag us back to the Dark Ages, they intend to march us at gunpoint. We talk a lot about how crazy the #MeToo intersectional gender-is-a-social-construct progressively Maoist Left is, but consider that they think they're perfectly normal centrists and realize that "Nazi" and "racist" and "misogynist" are not just knee-jerk epithets they hurl with abandon, they really do believe half the country is made up of irredeemably evil deplorables. These people would have no qualms about exterminating the rest of us given the chance.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    Everyone should follow Alyssa Milano on Twitter for insightful political commentary.

    Trump becomes first president since 2002 not to visit troops at Christmastime.

    Totally unacceptable. Know how I've been saying we need to vote Democrat if we want politicians who are pro-military and strong on national security? This is a perfect example.

    #SupportOurTroops:VoteDemocrat

  • Hattori Hanzo||

    Democrats stopped Stein's efforts to recount votes in MI. Why is that? Could it be the fraudulent vote totals in Wayne County where they stuffed ballot boxes and still couldn't win?

  • ||

    Hillary is just pure rotten, corrupted incompetence. A loser. An ill-tempered, arrogant, unimaginative elitist with the personality of mutated sea bass.

    It frickin says a lot this is still a frickin story in 20frickin19.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    She lost because she couldn't attract enough votes from half-educated, superstitious, ignorant, irrelevant. resentful, left-behind bigots in states with important Electoral College votes. Trump attracted enough of those votes to become president.

  • Eddy||

    Maybe you're right:

    "...a critical part of the 2016 equation: the millions of voters who switched from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016. Given the extremely close margins in some states, particularly the Rust Belt trio of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, these voters played a crucial role in handing over the White House to the GOP."

    https://bit.ly/2Ten9iq

  • Brian||

    Actually, Trump voters are typically higher income and more successful than Clinton voters.

    Really, she needed to appeal to more successful on average people to make a dent.

    Just sayin'.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    It was the bigotry and superstition that turned the tide.

  • You're Kidding||

    RALK is a Russian plant for sure.

  • Sevo||

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|12.26.18 @ 11:31PM|#
    "She lost because she couldn't attract enough votes from half-educated, superstitious, ignorant, irrelevant. resentful, left-behind bigots in states with important Electoral College votes. Trump attracted enough of those votes to become president."

    Lefty assertions are presumed to be 'arguments' by lefty assholes like the asshole posting this.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    You keep whining inconsequentially. We'll keep winning the culture war.

    The natural order.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    The person who cost Hillary Clinton the White House was Hillary Clinton.

  • Trigger Warning||

    The Hag cost The Hag Her own ascendancy. I think almost anyone else would have beaten DJT. I thought She was going to anyway.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    I'm not so sure anyone else COULD have beaten Trump, at least anyone the Democrats were at all likely to nominate. The arrogance and elitism that lead Shrillary to make the 'Deplorables' comment is pretty standard among the Donks. And before they had the 2016 wake up call, their bench was aging badly, so it's hard to say that a non-Shrillary candidate would have had a lot more energy. They were coming off of eight years of an administration by a clown who was elected largely on bullsh*t and who had no more qualifications to be in the White House than he did to be starting quarterback in the Super Bowl. They had elected that clown not once, but TWICE. They thought they had it locked, and that Trump was a joke. Shrillary lost by an electoral landslide, but I'm not convinced a different Democrat nominee wouldn't have lost, just a little less humiliatingly.

    Mind you, if anyone is responsible for Shrillary getting the bums' rush, it's Shrillary. But the faults that made it that way are all over the Left.

  • CE||

    Jim Webb would have some midwest centrist appeal, but the Dems laughed him out of the debates.

  • I am the 0.000000013%||

    If Lincoln Chafee, Lawrence Lessig, Martin O'Malley, Bernie Sanders, Jim Webb, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Jim Gilmore, Lindsey Graham, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, George Pataki, Rand Paul, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, and Jill Stein hadn't run Gary Johnson would be President now.

    Damn those Russians!

  • CE||

    California has top 2, and it's achieving its obvious aim of gutting third parties.

  • Steve_I_Am||

    This well-sourced article completely DEBUNKS the Democratic, NeoMcCarthyite, attacks on Green Party Presidential candidate, Dr. Jill Stein.

    I am proud to have been General Counsel to the Stein campaign in 2012.

    To paraphrase Joseph Welch, from the infamous Army/McCarthy hearings in 1954 - "Let us not assassinate this [good woman] further, [Democrats]. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?"

    Steve Justino
    Centennial, Colorado

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Why was she playing footsie with Putin? Other than general gullibility and haplessness.

  • You're Kidding||

    Because:

    1) Bill was off boffing some little hussie again.

    2) Because Putin is such a comparative hunk. Just look at his selfies.

    3) Because she was in denial about her sexual orientation and attempting to prove it by physically engaging an alpha male. Her daughter was so ugly that it was questionable that she was actually the mother.

    4) Because she wanted to ensure gainful, lucrative employment so she didn't have to go back to Hope, AR if she lost. After all, she'd tasted the good life and wasn't about to give it up.

  • ||

    122818 blaming every one except hillary for loosing 2016.

    un reason strikes again with another off point, 2016 election story.
    Hillary lost the campaign to Trump : to Obee... she is a lousy candidate.

    The crux of the 2016 campaign Hillary thought she could rig the Dem nominating convention against Bernie.

    Her critical mistake was talking her life long political confederate, Trump, into running as a Republican so when he did not get the nomination Trump would do a third party run - split the votes of alienated dems, repubs, minor party voters... ensuring Hillary's victory ! but,

    Trump figured out the republicans were lousy 'good old boy primary candidates' and Hillary is such a lousy candidate he could beat her by running on National issues outside of the 5 most indoctrinated dem 'stupid 'Kommunism' toady voter cities in America.

    To get even with Trump, in 2018, the republican political class ran campaigns about nothing in support of their democrat henchmen's vacuous lies.

    2020, if Trump wants to win, he must put up with obstructing repb : dems for a few weeks; then begin a county - state - federal campaign for a "New Government" - a clean sweep out of the entire political class occupying the elective and administrative offices of American government.

    Is Trump going to do this ? only if he has not sold out... so, we will know in a few weeks.

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