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Trillion-Dollar Deficits Are Nearly Here. Thanks, Republicans!

At nearly every opportunity, the GOP has made the nation's fiscal outlook worse.

Douliery Olivier/ABACADouliery Olivier/ABACAThe Congressional Budget Office projected in April that the federal budget deficit would hit $804 billion this year, and would top $1 trillion by 2020, two years earlier than previously projected.

Last week, the CBO reported that the federal government had already spent $895 billion more than it brought during the first 11 months of the fiscal year, an increase of $222 billion over the same period of time last year. Trillion-dollar deficits are very nearly here.

It's no secret why. Over the past year, Republicans at the federal level have cut taxes while signing onto bipartisan deals to increase spending. They have made the deficit larger at nearly every turn, and there's no sign they plan to stop.

Just this morning, President Donald Trump tweeted his displeasure with a bipartisan spending measure that passed in the Senate earlier this week. "I want to know, where is the money for Border Security and the WALL in this ridiculous Spending Bill, and where will it come from after the Midterms? Dems are obstructing Law Enforcement and Border Security." Trump had demanded $5 billion in spending for a border wall; the deal Senate Republicans cut with Democrats provides $1.6 billion. Trump, in other words, was upset because the plan doesn't spend more.

Yet the foundation of the latest budget deal, much like the spending planned signed earlier this year, is an agreement to spend more—on everything. The deal spends $11 billion more on the Labor, Education, and Health and Human Services departments than the Trump administration requested. That's what Democrats wanted in exchange for agreeing to a $17 billion year-over-year increase in military spending, according to The Washington Post. The two parties reached a deal by giving both sides what they want: more spending.

President Trump, meanwhile, wants even more spending—a lot more—in the form of a trillion-dollar infrastructure bill financed entirely by debt. Indeed, according to Axios, Trump rejected a proposal from former White House adviser Gary Cohn to spend $200 billion in federal funds in hopes of leveraging state and local dollars. Trump preferred an idea put forth by Democrats to put the entire infrastructure bill on the federal tab. "We've just gotta spend money on this," Trump reportedly said.

Trump wants to spend money—but Republicans don't want to raise more revenue to pay for it.

Last year's tax bill added more than $1.5 trillion to the next decade of federal deficits, and now House Republicans are pushing a second package of tax cuts that would add another $3.2 trillion. The second round of tax cuts isn't likely to become law, but a separate bipartisan package rolling back a variety of health care taxes has a real shot. That plan, which is driven by Republicans but has previously found some Democratic support, would add $59 billion to the deficit over the next decade—and more like $73 billion including interest.

Trump's top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, said this week that he was skeptical that tax cuts drove deficit increases. Kudlow, who earlier this summer falsely argued that last year's tax bill had already brought the deficit, said that he wished the current deficit were lower, but it's "not a catastrophe."

Anyway, he said, deficits are a product of too much spending. "We spent too much, I absolutely agree," Kudlow said. "Down the road of course we'd like to slim that down as much as possible." This is the way it always is with Republicans: tax cuts now, spending reductions later.

The federal deficit is a product of the difference between tax revenues and government spending; when countries, including the United States in the 1990s, have reduced their deficits, it has typically involved a mix of spending cuts and tax hikes. Kudlow, like most Republicans, wants to look only at one side of the ledger.

It is of course possible to substantially reduce the deficit exclusively via spending cuts. But Trump and his fellow Republicans have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no interest in the cutting spending at the scale that would be necessary. On the contrary, they have shown that they will accept higher spending for Democratic priorities in exchange for higher spending on Republican priorities, and they will pair these spending increases with tax reductions that increase the deficit even further. Kudlow may want to reduce spending down the road, but his party appears bent on increasing it now. And that, of course, is the same path that Republicans took under President George W. Bush. When the GOP has had power, it has cut taxes, but the spending cuts to match have never arrived.

Years of rank deficit hypocrisy on the part of the GOP helped pave a political pathway for Democrats who would like to increase spending even more whenever they have the opportunity. Republicans have contributed to an already troubling political dynamic that is likely to make the problem worse.

Kudlow may be right, in a narrow sense, that this year's high deficit is not a catastrophe—at least for the moment. But just because fiscal ruin has not yet descended upon us does not mean it will not arrive eventually; the nature of debt crises is that everything is basically fine until, one day, it's not. The federal government's debt and deficits have been a catastrophe in waiting for years, and under Trump the Republicans have made the problem worse.

*CORRECTION: A previous version of this story incorrectly stated that the CBO had updated its deficit projection for the current fiscal year to $1 trillion.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Every good libertarian should know that it's not loss of tax revenue but state spending. As for the GOP, voters don't want to give up any government programs.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    It appears they are going to give up the Republican Party instead.

    Let's hope the Democratic Party responds wisely.

  • bvandyke||

    Good luck with that, like the Democratic Party is fiscally responsible.

  • ||

    Or good at responding wisely.

  • BigChiefWahoo||

    The Republicans have merely come to the same conclusion that Democrats came to years ago: You can't buy votes with balanced budgets or smaller government. Staying in office means making sure your constituents are getting the benefits. Legislators-as-Santa Claus.

  • JesseAz||

    When have democrats ever responded wisely instead if with emotional hysteria?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    New Deal Republicans excuse their slurping at the gummint teat, by squealing TAX CUTS DON'T INCREASE DEFICITS! REVENUE WILL STILL INCREASE THIS YEAR!!!

    How much new revenue?
    A staggering $24 billion revenue increase is forecast!

    The deficit will increase an estimated $334 billion
    ALL FROM HIGHER SPENDING!

    Higher spending is forecast at $190 billion
    SEE!

    What causes the other $144 billion higher deficit?
    ....................

    WHAT CAUSES THE OTHER $144 BILLION DEFICIT?
    MAGA

    Left - Right = Zero

  • Red Tony||

    ...from now on, Ima respond to you with Super Kami Guru quotes from DBZAbridged.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    It isn't the GOP, it's the faggot RINO pieces of shot in the leadership. This is why they're fighting so hard to keep Jim Jordan out. We might have a chance if he's speaker, amd Trump keeps his promos that the current omnibus spending bill was the last one.

    It would also help if we could teach democrats their place. But that would take a real fire breathing AG willing to put them all in prison where they belong.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Trump keeps his promos that the current omnibus spending bill was the last one.

    (lol) He made the same promise last year. He also promised to pay off the debt in 8 years. Instead he has INCREASED the 2025 debt by $10.5 billion. ... which is MORE debt than Obama added AFTER 8 years!
    And you poppets STILL swallow his bullshit.

    PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
    When has ANY President EVER increased the deficit by OVER 50% ... in a single year ...with a booming economy?

    It would also help if we could teach democrats their place. But that would take a real fire breathing AG willing to put them all in prison where they belong

    MORE PSYCHO THAN TRUMP!
    JAIL every Democrat in Congress!

    This is why they're fighting so hard to keep Jim Jordan out.

    The dictator mentality. Pay attention, chump.
    Changing the Speaker does not change how Republican members vote. And YOUR thugs are less than 15% of the electorate,

    But, keep snarling, Sluggo (sneer)

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    All that work you put into your posts and no one gives a shit. So pathetic of you.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Suck it up AGAIN dumbass.

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL -- 8-year debt
    $ 9.6 T Obama (after 8 years)
    $10.7 T Trump (in only TWO years, wants MORE)

    Obama's 8-year debt (billions) 19,539.6 - 9,986.1 = 9,553.5

    Trump's 8-year debt
    $30,042 August Forecast (804 estimate 2018)
    ++++196 (New estimate 2018)
    =$30,238 (2025 Debt)
    ---19,549 (Trump inherited)
    ==10,689 (Trump already)

    Trump, first President to EVER increase deficit by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy (OMFG) (same link)

    Obama inherited 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited longest recovery EVER for an incoming President -- FROM OBAMA!!!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL == WORSE THAN OBAMA

    (sneer)

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    You're right that they're really going crazy with the insane spending, but you would have way more credibility if you didn't whine like a bitch and implore them to surrender and give your hero Obama virtually everything he demanded during the "shutdown" fiasco.

    You lying liberal democrat fucktard.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Whimpering, half-educated bigots might be my favorite faux libertarians.

  • TuIpa||

    So you're your favorite " libertarian"?

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    I still wish that someone would show up there at 8113 Sun Meadows Court in Fort Worth, Texas and put you out of your misery, Mary Stack.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    Sorry, the value of your home is too low for me to bother with. My regrets...

  • No Yards Penalty||

    whimpering, half-educated bigots is all that's left around here. The fauxbertarians migrated over from The Federalist and drove the libertarians away.

  • Eman||

    "Fauxbertarians"? Lame.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You must be one!
    Not just the Federalist, The craziest ones are followers of Ron Paul's cult, many or most also alt-right.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Speaking of crazy, since we know who you are and where you live, you might want to worry about being civilly committed you fucking wacko.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Who is "we" psycho? And how do you thugs get the power to "civilly commit" anyone?

    we know who you are and where you live

    Which delusion do YOU swallow, Last of the Shitheads,
    Am I Hihn or Mary Stack? Which conspiracy today, Trumptard?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    You're the moron who posts as Hihn, amd if you're the real one, it might be about time to look and see if you should be remanded to a nuthouse where you belong.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    You're the moron who posts as Hihn, amd if you're the real one, it might be about time to look and see if you should be remanded to a nuthouse where you belong.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Suck it up AGAIN dumbass.

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL -- 8-year debt
    $ 9.6 T Obama (after 8 years)
    $10.7 T Trump (in only TWO years, wants MORE)

    Obama's 8-year debt (billions) 19,539.6 - 9,986.1 = 9,553.5

    Trump's 8-year debt
    $30,042 August Forecast (804 estimate 2018)
    ++++196 (New estimate 2018)
    =$30,238 (2025 Debt)
    ---19,549 (Trump inherited)
    ==10,689 (Trump already)

    Trump, first President to EVER increase deficit by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy (OMFG) (same link)

    Obama inherited 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited longest recovery EVER for an incoming President -- FROM OBAMA!!!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL == WORSE THAN OBAMA

    I think you have conclusively proven now that you are the reincarnation of Goebbels.

    You now a PROVEN psycho, sonny
    (sneer)

  • No Yards Penalty||

    Trump's Cock Holster, shoudn't you be whining like a Contard bitch over at The Federalist with the other rubes? Or are you just LC1789's sock-puppet?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Good call!

  • Red Tony||

    It's your first time, so I'll be gentle.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Good call!

  • Red Tony||

    All downhill from here.

  • David Nolan||

    Welcome to the GOP New Deal!

    Trump has already added more 8-year debt. in less than 2 years, than Obama did after 8 years. Obama had inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s, and handed Trump the longest recovery ever for an incoming President. Never, ever, have deficits risen sharply, in a booming economy. With a trade war likely to cause a crash, like the 1930s. Imagine a recession starting with trillion dollar deficits ... all to Make America Great Again! Suckers.

    Kudlow describes the New Entitlement. Only spending increases debt. Tax cuts let us keep our own money. Even Rand Paul is an entitlement hustler. Fiscal conservatives once explained what should be obvious -- debt-financed tax cuts are stealing from your own children and grandchildren, without their vote. Fiscal conservatives still say that, of course. Many, even in this commentariat, snarl that tax cuts are free money, their "entitlement."

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    Over 60% of Americans self-identify with libertarian values, fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But 91% of those libertarians reject libertarianISM, the ideology. (Per Cato) The ism is now a cult, like the Moonies and Davidians, drinking the same Kool-Aid as Jim Jones' Peoples' Temple.

  • Red Tony||

    Yep. Would be a real dick move to die right now.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Again with Trumo's cock? You are supremely unoriginal.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Again proud of being a "shitlord" (which means bigot. Literally)
    How original is that?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    It doesn't mean bigot you stupid, stupid piece of shit. Now go to hospice.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Suck it up AGAIN dumbass.

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL -- 8-year debt
    $ 9.6 T Obama (after 8 years)
    $10.7 T Trump (in only TWO years, wants MORE)

    Obama's 8-year debt (billions) 19,539.6 - 9,986.1 = 9,553.5

    Trump's 8-year debt
    $30,042 August Forecast (804 estimate 2018)
    ++++196 (New estimate 2018)
    =$30,238 (2025 Debt)
    ---19,549 (Trump inherited)
    ==10,689 (Trump already)

    Trump, first President to EVER increase deficit by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy (OMFG) (same link)

    Obama inherited 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited longest recovery EVER for an incoming President -- FROM OBAMA!!!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL == WORSE THAN OBAMA

    (sneer)

  • Rich||

    The federal deficit is a product of the difference between tax revenues and government spending

    Are you bringing that economic multiplier thingie to bear?

    This "trillion" stuff if getting out of hand. Time to implement the nuevo dollar.

  • Don't look at me.||

    Time to print that trillion dollar coin they invented in the last administration.

  • DiegoF||

    They might not do much right but I liked Slate's design choice. Remember this was shortly after the 2012 Olympics.

  • CE||

    They're going to need a lot of them.

  • jonnysage||

    Revenue is up. Spending is up more. Thanks to DEMOCRATS and Republicans who both voted for spending increases.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I have no love loss for the Republicans and their flagrant spending. I think it's weird that they are the only ones called to task for it though. The article mentions briefly that the spending is bipartisan, but everything else puts blame solely on Republicans.

  • Magnitogorsk||

    Probably because Republicans control both the branch of government that proposes spending and the branch that approves it

  • TuIpa||

    But these deals don't get done with just Republicans. Your reason is probably true, and as BUCS says, not a verty good one.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    But they are not dominant, and this is not a sudden change where Democrats when they were in control were financial responsible. There is a tendency to paint this along partisan lines, but in a case where it is so clearly bipartisan that makes it come off as bald faced bias.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    And just to clarify what I mean by "They're not dominant." The current make-up is 51-49 in the Senate, 236-193 in House. This is not complete domination. Particularly as there are Republicans who do vote against these budgets.

    The budget ultimately passed 93-7. This does not happen without major support from Democrats. They are not free of sin. And painting this as if it's purely one side, is just Partisanship. But it's also Suderman, who is a bitter partisan.

  • Just Say'n||

    Suderman should mention, though, that all the "no" votes were from Republicans, with the exception of Bernie Sanders who voted "no" due to the military spending increase (I'll tip my hat to Bernie on that one).

    That fact undercuts the woketarian argument that continues to be pushed here that somehow we'll get restrained spending from Democrats

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Can you link me to the vote? I actually looked for it, but was having a hard time finding this specifically.

  • Just Say'n||

  • Just Say'n||

    From the link:

    NAYs ---7

    Flake (R-AZ)
    Lee (R-UT)
    Paul (R-KY)
    Perdue (R-GA)
    Sanders (I-VT)
    Sasse (R-NE)
    Toomey (R-PA)

  • Just Say'n||

    I thought I'd never say this, but "well done, Bernie"

  • Azathoth!!||

    Based on this--


    NAYs ---7

    Flake (R-AZ)
    Lee (R-UT)
    Paul (R-KY)
    Perdue (R-GA)
    Sanders (I-VT)
    Sasse (R-NE)
    Toomey (R-PA)
    ;

    The Republicans are the only party to show any fiscal restraint at all. The Dems were all in for spending.

    Sanders is a member of no party.

  • PTSD||

    Obviously, they're both guilty. The problem is that Republicans constantly claim to be the party of "small government," and they used to rail regularly against spending. It's like all those Catholic priests who intone against child molestation, while spending their weekends raping the parish kids. Bad optics, you know.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    A rare voice of reason in the Reason commentariat.

    The right-wing puppets refuse to accept

    1) Trump and the Republitards have ALREADY added MORE new 8-year debt than Obama added AFTER his 8 years!!! (Obama actual vs CBO forecast debt for 2024, based on GOP tax and spending bills.

    2) Trump and the Republitards are the ONLY ones to have EVER increased the annual deficit ... by OVER 50% ... in ONE year ... with a booming economy.

    3) Obama added LESS debt, despite inheriting the 2nd worst recession since the Depression.

    4) Trump added MORE debt, despite inheriting the LONGEST recovery EVER (7 years) ... from Obama!

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    No democrat should have a goddamn ting to say about fiscal restraint. Ever.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    BUY A CLUE, TRUMPTARD

    In less than two years, Trump has added MORE 8-year debt than Obama added AFTER his 8 years.

    When has ANY President increased the deficit by over 50% in a single year ... with a booming economy? YOU CALL THAT FISCAL RESTRAINT???

    Welcome to the Republican New Deal of Donald Trump!
    And his puppets dancing on a string.

    Pathetic.

  • CE||

    Yeah, no dodging this one. Republicans are awful on the budget.

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    But when fake libertarian Suderman's hero Barack Obama was president, he still put all the blame on republicans, and then that one time it looked like there might possibly be a "government shutdown", he whined about it like the little dishonest bitch that he is and said the republicans should just shut up and pass the spending bill.

  • No Yards Penalty||

    Trump's Cock Holster, you might not have noticed by Obama is no longer president. Try to keep up, rube.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Again with that shit. You're a big sloppy bottom faggot for Trump, aren't you?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    you might not have noticed by Obama is no longer president
    Again with that shit.

    He is correct, Sluggo, Obama is no longer President!.
    It's now Donald Trump. It's been in all the news for 20 months. Here's the proof, if you insist!

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    But when fake libertarian Suderman's hero Barack Obama was president,

    You are SO full of shit. On both lies.

  • JesseAz||

    Magnito... Learn how government qlactually works. Kthxbye

  • David Nolan||

    Welcome to the GOP New Deal!

    Trump has already added more 8-year debt. in less than 2 years, than Obama did after 8 years. Obama had inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s, and handed Trump the longest recovery ever for an incoming President. Never, ever, have deficits risen sharply, in a booming economy. With a trade war likely to cause a crash, like the 1930s. Imagine a recession starting with trillion dollar deficits ... all to Make America Great Again! Suckers.

    Kudlow describes the New Entitlement. Only spending increases debt. Tax cuts let us keep our own money. Even Rand Paul is an entitlement hustler. Fiscal conservatives once explained what should be obvious -- debt-financed tax cuts are stealing from your own children and grandchildren, without their vote. Fiscal conservatives still say that, of course. Many, even in this commentariat, snarl that tax cuts are free money, their "entitlement."

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    Over 60% of Americans self-identify with libertarian values, fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But 91% of those libertarians reject libertarianISM, the ideology. (Per Cato) The ism is now a cult, like the Moonies and Davidians, drinking the same Kool-Aid as Jim Jones' Peoples' Temple.

  • Here for the outrage||

    The federal government's debt and deficits have been a catastrophe in waiting for years, and under Trump the Republicans have made the problem worse.

    Enjoy your 401k and cocktail parties

  • Idle Hands||

    But Trumps not a "real" conservative. Fuck all these people they deserve far worse than Trump. Whose up for nominating a horse?

  • ||

    Why not? We've been electing horse's asses for years. Might as well try the whole animal.

  • SQRLSY One||

    Either a hooker or a horse, of course... Or maybe even Caligula? We could use a little-boots-boost around here!

    Or maybe combine the hooker and the horse; why not a hooker-horse?

    ANYTHING would be better than Trump, so let's trump (and dump) the Trump!

  • sarcasmic||

    How's about some Caligulove?

    link is to a song by Them Crooked Vultures which is a trio comprised of Josh Homme (Queens of the Stone Age), David Grohl (Nirvana, Foo Fighters) and John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin). They kick ass....

  • SQRLSY One||

    Caligulove
    Them Crooked Vultures
    In the temple (I was an offering)
    Of the heartless (I was an offering)
    I was humbled (I was an offering)
    And reborn
    Into a god.
    Darling,
    A sensitive soul is just,
    A tyrant who enslaves,
    All those around him,
    To make certain he
    Is hurt, always
    I don't need a reason baby,
    Put your arms around me.
    Hold me real close,
    Clap me in irons,
    C'mon caligulove me,
    C'mon caligulove me.
    You can hear it (as an offering)
    If you're a good girl (as an offering)
    A righteous choir is singing (as an offering)
    No, screaming,
    As they burn.
    Darling, there are no taboos
    In lust.
    My veins coarse blood that's so
    Venomous.
    When heartless hears a heartbeat
    He's jealous, so jealous.
    I don't need a reason baby,
    Put your arms around me.
    Hold me real close,
    Clap me in irons,
    C'mon caligulove me.
    I already gotcha baby,
    Put yourself upon me.
    I'm in lust,
    A slave to desire,
    When you caligulove me.
    C'mon on,
    Love me.
    Hold me real close
    Love me.
    I need your caligulove girl.
    Caligulove.

    As sung by Trump, to all of us peons!

  • sarcasmic||

    Jesus, dude. You trying to get lc to cream his jeans?

  • Dillinger||

    JPJ is Bass God.

  • sarcasmic||

    Citizens! In all times, two political systems have been in existence, and each may be maintained by good reasons. According to one of them, Government ought to do much, but then it ought to take much. According to the other, this two-fold activity ought to be little felt. We have to choose between these two systems. But as regards the third system, which partakes of both the others, and which consists in exacting everything from Government, without giving it anything, it is chimerical, absurd, childish, contradictory, and dangerous. Those who parade it, for the sake of the pleasure of accusing all governments of weakness, and thus exposing them to your attacks, are only flattering and deceiving you, while they are deceiving themselves.

    Bastiat

  • mpercy||

    "But as regards the third system, which partakes of both the others, and which consists in exacting everything from Government, without giving it anything, it is chimerical, absurd, childish, contradictory, and dangerous."

    So, basically, the 42% who pay no federal income taxes?

    Or at least the 24% who have zero or negative sum of income and payroll taxes (i.e., their EITC and other refundable credits offset or more than offset their income taxes--they're not paying into Social Security or Medicaid, effectively, but will certainly draw on it given a chance).

    Or the additional 15% that paid neither any income or payroll taxes in the first place?

  • Moridin||

    So spending is okay for dems but not the GOP? I remember when Obummer was first in office and the dems were spending all that money and a dem acquaintance of mine said to me, "We [dems] are okay with spending tons of money. Just not when you guys [he presumed I was GOP since I was against Obummer] do it." Fo sho.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    It's not okay for either, I just wish there was more taking to task for both.

  • Just Say'n||

    You're not going to get that from woketarians. The virtue signal is their highest principle.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You folks understand ... right? ... that Trump has already added more new debt, in less than 2 years, than Obama added in 8 years?

    Now tell me, at what other time has the deficit increased nearly 50%, in a booming economy?
    MAGA = Morons Are Governing America!

    Sheeple to the right of me. Sheeple to the left of me
    Libertarians, nowhere to be seen.

  • Sigivald||

    I was not aware that Presidents controlled the budget.

    Because they don't.

    Neither Obama nor Trump "added debt".

    Congress does that.

  • David Nolan||

    whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

  • Red Tony||

    Fool. If I had trained him in the new way, he might've stood a chance.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Congress does that.

    The budget is submitted by the President. He can also veto any revenue or spending bill. That puts him in charge. It's in that Constitution thingy. I fully understand why you make any and all excuses to cover up all Trump's massive failures.

    He also campaigned on paying off the entire federal debt in 8 years.
    AND cutting taxes
    AND increasing spending.
    AND providing universal health care/
    ALL with NO cuts in Social Security and Medicare.
    (which you now say was an outrageous pile of smoldering bullshit)

    What does that tell us about his voters

  • Red Tony||

    Now relax as I reach deep inside you and grab hold of your essence.

  • mpercy||

    He could veto it, but with only 7 Nays in the Senate (I forget the House vote) it sure seems like a veto is just procedural, destined to be overridden.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    It takes 2/3 in both houses to override a veto

    it sure seems like a veto is just procedural, destined to be overridden.

    So you also flunked math.
    But he did have the largest inaugural crowd ever.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    93 is over 2/3. And in the House, 359-49. Now about flunking math...

    Now go spout about how Trump has added more debt in 2 years than Obama did in 8. Let's see what Treasury says:

    August report (last available): 21,458,850MM (We'll be generous and round up to 21,458,851,000,000)
    09/30/2017 20,244,900,016,053.51
    09/30/2016 19,573,444,713,936.79
    09/30/2015 18,150,617,666,484.33
    09/30/2014 17,824,071,380,733.82
    09/30/2013 16,738,183,526,697.32
    09/30/2012 16,066,241,407,385.89
    09/30/2011 14,790,340,328,557.15
    09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
    09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75
    09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49

    So Barry either went from 11,909,829,003,511.75 to 20,244,900,016,053.51 = 8335071012541.76 or he went from 10,024,724,896,912.49 to 19,573,444,713,936.79 = 9548719817024.3. Using the latter standard, "Trump" has added 1,885,406,286,063.21, which is about half of what Barry added in his first two years.

    Again, 9.5TT is greater than 1.8TT, but you ran out of fingers and toes to do your 'rithmetic.

    Christ you're a moron.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Which is about half of what Barry added in his first two years.

    I said Obama's EIGHT years. Did you waste much time on that?

    Pay attention while I educate you

    Trump has already added more new debt, in less than 2 years, than Obama added in 8 years

    Find the debt forecast for 8 years from Trump taking office. Compare that with Obama's 8 years. Or do 10 years for each. Apples and apples. And what I said, not your diversion.

    Lesson #2. When has the deficit EVER increased by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy?

  • Red Tony||

    This is why we need TV!

  • David Nolan||

    Welcome to the GOP New Deal!

    Trump has already added more 8-year debt. in less than 2 years, than Obama did after 8 years. Obama had inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s, and handed Trump the longest recovery ever for an incoming President. Never, ever, have deficits risen sharply, in a booming economy. With a trade war likely to cause a crash, like the 1930s. Imagine a recession starting with trillion dollar deficits ... all to Make America Great Again! Suckers.

    Kudlow describes the New Entitlement. Only spending increases debt. Tax cuts let us keep our own money. Even Rand Paul is an entitlement hustler. Fiscal conservatives once explained what should be obvious -- debt-financed tax cuts are stealing from your own children and grandchildren, without their vote. Fiscal conservatives still say that, of course. Many, even in this commentariat, snarl that tax cuts are free money, their "entitlement."

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    Over 60% of Americans self-identify with libertarian values, fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But 91% of those libertarians reject libertarianISM, the ideology. (Per Cato) The ism is now a cult, like the Moonies and Davidians, drinking the same Kool-Aid as Jim Jones' Peoples' Temple.

  • Red Tony||

    Do I look Catholic to you?

  • mpercy||

    Trump (so far)

    Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    01/20/2017 14,403,704,176,388.94 5,543,600,378,823.55 19,947,304,555,212.49
    09/20/2018 15,760,417,329,521.12 5,707,051,193,365.25 21,467,468,522,886.37

    Obama

    Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding
    01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.08
    09/20/2010 8,970,291,578,710.76 4,499,050,879,423.41 13,469,342,458,134.17
    01/19/2017 14,403,768,885,198.20 5,540,660,331,908.57 19,944,429,217,106.77

    Increase under Trump so far is about $1.52T.
    Increase under Obama by the same time was about $2.843T.

    Total Increase under Obama was about $9.318T, it slowed down later in his administration, to average about $1.16T per year over 8 years. It remains to be seen whether debt increases faster later in Trump's administration or declines--currently his increase is higher than Obama's overall rate, but way below what Obama added in his first year+.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You can't get that right either. How much time did you waste.

    The 8-year forecast for Trump is $11.5 Trillion bs Obama's 9.3 Trillion. Trump added morte 8-year debt, in less than two years, then Obama added after 8 years.

    You also may need to learn that Obama inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s -- but handed Trump the longest recovery EVER, for an incoming President.

    Now tell how Republicans have created THE largest debt increase EVER ... in a booming economy!
    Has ANYONE ever created massive newe debt in a booming economy? Anyone at all?

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    The 8-year forecast...

    Huh, too many letters in that word for you to understand?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    forecast -- which you fucked up here.

  • mpercy||

    I know what FORECAST means..., which is why I said "It remains to be seen whether debt increases faster later in Trump's administration or declines--currently his increase is higher than Obama's overall rate, but way below what Obama added in his first year+."

    A forecast is a prediction, which may or may not come true. Thus, the ACTUAL future deficit growth may or may not be what was forecast, it could be worse or it could be better. I'll repeat that for the slow readers: the forecast may be right or it may be wrong, the actual deficits may be higher than predicted or may be lower than predicted.

    Who knows what the future truly holds? Perhaps the Democrats gain a slight majority in both the House and Senate, but not enough to override any veto. Then Trump vetoes all Democrat spending plans and we face shutdowns and CRs that do not increase spending. Perhaps Trump loses in 2020 and has no "8-year deficit".

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    MOAR evasions and diversions. (hence boldface)
    STILL LIES ABOUT MY STATEMENT.

    Now tell how Republicans have created THE largest debt increase EVER ... in a booming economy!

    No answer. Diversion. Rephrase.
    When has ANY President EVER increased the deficit ... by OVER 50% ... in a single year ... in a booming economy?

    You also may need to learn that Obama inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s -- but handed Trump the longest recovery EVER, for an incoming President.

    but way below what Obama added in his first year

    EVASION Shameful

    I'll repeat that for the slow readers:

    YOU NEVER SAID THAT

    the forecast may be right or it may be wrong, the actual deficits may be higher than predicted or may be lower than predicted.

    EVASION. NOT IN DISPUTE
    1) This year's forecast was TOO LOW by 20% -- $200 billion.
    2) Trump wants ANOTHER trillion for infrastructure.
    3) Congressional Republicans want ANOTHER $1.3 Trillion in tax cuts.

    Trump promised to pay off the federal debt in 8 years -- also a forecast! -- but will ADD over $10 trillion.

    ***THIRD REQUEST. When has ANY President EVER increased the deficit ... by over 50% ... in a single year ... in a booming economy?

  • jonnysage||

    Not possible. Debt now from when Trump took office has increased by about 1.5 trillion. for Obama it was 10 trillion. Also Obama is responsible for everything that happens until 2020 or 2024. This is called the Bush rule.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Not possible

    Read it again. The 8-year forecast for Trump is over $12 trillion ALREADY, vs Obama's less than $10 trillion. And Trump wants even more!

    And you FAIL to answer:

    Now tell me, at what other time has the deficit increased nearly 50% (in a single year), in a booming economy?

    I'm waiting.

  • jonnysage||

    Read your own post. "Trump has already added more 8-year debt"

    He hasnt. A forecast is the future, not the present.

  • David Nolan||

    Based on spending increases and tax cuts passed under Trump. Or do you think they're gonna increase taxes and cut spending!!!

    Now tell me, at what other time has the deficit increased nearly 50% (in a single year), in a booming economy?

    I'm waiting.

    STILL waiting. Why does EVERYONE run away from that one???

    That 50% in one year continues and keeps growing. The Republican New Deal!

    Anything else?

    Left - Right = Zero

  • Azathoth!!||

    Michael, you said, using both your 'Nolan' and 'Wyatt' socks that;

    "Trump has already added more new debt, in less than 2 years, than Obama added in 8 years"(Wyatt)

    "Trump has already added more 8-year debt. in less than 2 years, than Obama did after 8 years" (Nolan)

    See that bolding? It's not for "defense against aggression", it's for emphasis.

    "Has already" means that something has already happened, Michael. That it's in the past.

    Forecast, as with this--

    "The 8-year forecast for Trump is over $12 trillion ALREADY"

    means that something hasn't happened yet. It's in the future.

    This means that all your statements about this are, based on how you're saying things, categorically wrong.

    Simply because something that has been 'forecast' cannot have 'already' happened.

    See?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    The forecast tells us the consequences of tax and spending bills already passed.
    Every business uses forecasts to measure the anticipated consequences of various actions,

    Anything else?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    P.S, My name's not Michael.
    But Trumptards see conspiracies everywhere.

  • Dillinger||

    *anyone* holding office.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Krugman must be happy as a clam.

  • David Nolan||

    Yep. Krugmam would endorse Trump's New Deal.

    a) 50% deficit increase, in one year, with a booming economy
    b) ALREADY added more 8-year debt than Obama added AFTER 8 years (unless tax hikes or spending cuts)

  • SQRLSY One||

    I wonder how many libertarians are like me? Want to cut-cut-cut spending, except for MY favorite spending?!?!?

    My favorite spending would be REAL science and tech… Assuming Government Almighty could get efficient and smart about it, and not spend all of our money on fake or stupid tech and science… Which I know is a GIANT assumption and risk!

    Anyway, I wish that they could throw a "mere" $5 billion to Elon Musk and BFR development while they are at it… It is a MUCH better investment than that stupid SLS that they've got going! See http://reason.com/blog/2018/09.....nt_7476168 and http://www.quora.com/Will-Spac.....S-obsolete

    I justify my cut-spending –but- don't cut MY faves, hypocrisy, in the name of "market failure"… If Elon Musk's investments save the human race from the next asteroid impact, HOW can he collect $0.79 (efficiently) from every human on the planet? Can't be done, so maybe a place for Government Almighty spending…

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I've been doing some research in a type of flute, a plastic device one can blow on. I don't have a name for it yet, but I'm wondering if you think the government should fund me.

  • SQRLSY One||

    Yes!!! And make sure that a device that costs $3 or $5 at most, to manufacture, costs me $55, and costs the MFG $30 million to get approved by the FDA, and, last but not least, make sure that I have to get a PRESCRIPTION for it!!!

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I'll try my best. I just hope the government is okay with creating a new task force and council for the dissemination of my tool. The more layers there are to accessing it, the better I think.

  • SQRLSY One||

    I've been trying to disseminate my tool for YEARS now, and they'e been telling me it's too old and moldy... Maybe I will have to market it as blue cheese instead!

  • DiegoF||

    If a link to this comment could be forwarded far and wide I think it would rid the world of the intactivist movement--or at least of the world's lunch--instantly, once and for all.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Wasn't there one of those in the Starr Report?

  • SQRLSY One||

    Yes, you COULD even build one for yourself, if so criminally inclined and criminally insane, but that would be an unspeakable crime, in so, so many ways, you couldn't even shake a "lung flute" at a number that high!!! So don't be a criminal, don't do it!!!

    Precise details on what NOT to do, to stay on the GOOD side of Government Almighty, are to be found at http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ ...

  • PTSD||

    I have a flute made of skin that you can blow on. For free!

  • CE||

    Just cut it all. People will have more money left over to spend on what they want, including REAL science and tech.

  • Just Say'n||

    "I wonder how many libertarians are like me? Want to cut-cut-cut spending, except for MY favorite spending?!?!?"

    You're reading the leading publication of that brand of "libertarianism". They frequently attack attempts to de-fund Planned Parenthood (which is a large advertiser here) and tax payer funded abortions.

    Paul is the only representative that votes in favor of all spending cut bills. Amash votes "present" on spending cut bills that would take the government out of the bedroom and Massie votes "present" on spending cut bills that would impact his district.

    Guess which representative Reason loves?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Fucking liar

    They frequently attack attempts to de-fund Planned Parenthood (which is a large advertiser here) and tax payer funded abortions.

    ONLY because the Christian Taliban LIES about their funding, which is Title IX family planning -- when you understand sex, you'll learn how contraception has SLASHED abortions in the inner city

    Their major funding is ... Medicaid. They are the ONLY Medicaid provider for millions of low-income women -- but fuck 'em they're just niggers. BECAUSE abortions pay the overhead, PP can AFFORD to treat Medicaid patients for as little as $17 per visit. (Brainwashed dumbasses say that Medicaid subsidizes abortion, because money is fungible. They're dumbassses for two reasons. They don't know what fungible means, and bat-shit crazy -- they think money-losers subsidize money-makers!!) Do you have any clue on Medicaid funding?

    There are no taxpayer-funded abortions.

    Paul is the only representative that votes in favor of all spending cut bills.

    ... AND the tax cuts, which makes him an even bigger phony

    Guess which representative Reason loves?

    All three. Equally crazy on tax cuts.
    Guess who's the most brainwashed commenter on this page.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    David Nolan?

  • Sigivald||

    Which enumerated power is "science and tech spending", again?

    (But, hey, not everyone has to be a Constitutionalist while they are or aren't a libertarian; the two positions are isomorphic.)

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    Fucking Obama. This is all his fault.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Yeah, that fucking Kenyan inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s ... handed Trump the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President .... so it's Obama who caused Trump to add more new debt in less than 2 years, than Obama added after 8 years, the goddamn commie.

  • Sigivald||

    Presidents Are Sun Kings!

    As Long As That Theory Credits Democrats, At Least!

    Jesus. Christ.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Left - Right = Zero

    Only losers choose either (a shrinking minority)

  • Red Tony||

    I saw a bird. It was pretty. Kick its' ass.

  • Red Tony||

    Kill it like the rest.

  • bvandyke||

    Does Reason even remember complaining about spending under Obo? It really doesn't sound like they do.

    It is Government spending - not Repub or Demo - Government. Take the focus off of a party and focus on the whole problem. Take the partisan politics out of it, the spending sure isn't partisan.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Does Reason even remember complaining about spending under Obo? It really doesn't sound like they do.

    1) Do you even remember when Democrats postured as fiscal conservatives?
    2) Trump has ALREADY added more new debt. than Obama did (8-year forecast vs actual)
    3) Do you even remember when the deficit increased nearly 50% in one year ... during a booming economy?

  • Red Tony||

    ...that SLUT!

  • Sigivald||

    1) Yes. They occasionally pretend to think it's important - generally when they're not in power and can blame Republicans. (And let's be fair, since I'm not the partisan you seem to be - the Republicans do exactly the same stupid thing. "No one is without sin.")

    2) Congress controls the budget, not the President. It's in that "Constitution" thing, and it's one of the parts we actually still follow!

    3) What year do you have in mind? I don't see here any such thing in the past decade. Could you be specific?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Trumptard makes public fool of self!

    What year do you have in mind?

    OBVIOUSLY this year.

    I don't see here any such thing in the past decade.

    (lol)
    2017 deficit = $665 billion, (YOUR OWN LINK!
    2018 deficit = $1,000 billion (if and when you get around to reading this page, or ANY news source))

    NOW SUBTRACT
    1,000
    - 665
    = 335 (Am I going too fast for ya?)

    NOW DIVIDE
    335/665 = 50.3% higher deficit for Trump, in one year, despite a booming economy - per your own data!

    Your #1 and #2 are also bullshit.

    Congress controls the budget

    TRUMP FUCKING LIED THAT HE COULD DRAIN THE SWAMP!!! It's in that "Constitution" thing.
    Vetoes are for Presidents with balls.

    He did say you'd even lie to defend him from murdering someone in broad daylight.

    Anything else?

  • Red Tony||

    I saw a fish. That is all. Go back outside now.

  • BSL1||

    Did you really just try to say that the difference between 665 and 1000 is 50.3 percent, not 33.5%?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You divided by the wrong denominator ... AFTER I SHOWED YOU THE CORRECT MATH!

    335/1000 = 33.5% FAIL

    335 is an increase on 665.

    So, what we do is ... 335/665 = 50.376%

    When has ANY President EVER increased the deficit ... by over 50% ... in a single year ... especially with a booming economy?

    Anything else?

  • Azathoth!!||

    Michael, you don't know how to do arithmetic.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    My name's not Michael.
    And this is your 1,056th major fuckup on these pages.

    HIS/YOUR fuckup is the increase as a percentage of the NEW total. NOT the percentage of change
    MINE is a percentage of the original total ... which is HOW we measure the CHANGE from ... the ORIGINAL

    He STILL won't get it! .. so try this.

    If my wage is $30 per hour and I get a $10 hours increase, what is my gain?
    I say 10/30 = 33%
    GOOBERS say 10/40 = 25%

    (He's still drooling)

  • chipper me timbers||

    It's not MY debt, it's THEIR debt.

    There is no political will to significantly raise taxes, and it's unlikely that will change. Once debt servicing starts to eat up the budget they WILL have to make difficult decisions HAHAHAHA. Can't wait.

  • ThomasD||

    "Once debt servicing starts to eat up the budget they WILL have to make difficult decisions "

    The decision will not be difficult. They will decide to do what all governments have done since time immemorial.

    They will inflate the currency.

    Thus transferring the debt to everyone who transacts in that currency.

    As it is also the worlds reserve currency that means pretty much everyone other than some of those tribes in the remote regions of the Amazon.

  • chipper me timbers||

    Of course you're right. They will definitely debauch the currency.

    This is real bad for the holders of the debt, not quite as bad for everyone else. And.. still not my debt. It's THEIR debt.

  • ThomasD||

    Currency debasement affects everyone who holds currency, it's a stealth tax.

    Won't be as bad here as in places with more kleptocracy - in those places economic growth with decline, and quite likely go negative.

  • CE||

    The federal debt is approaching 21 trillion with a T. Long term interest rates are around 3 percent, so debt service is already 600 billion dollars a year (12 billion a week if you prefer).

    If inflation hits and rates edge up to 5 percent, debt service will be one trillion dollars per annum.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Fucking Trump and his New Deal

  • Red Tony||

    This is very serious. I must put on my war face.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    One of the reasons I support President Trump is that I don't revel in the screaming anguish of others. I mean, can you imagine the blood pressure of the average Reason commenter if we were running 5% 30 year mortgage rates and trillion dollar deficits under Obama in a period of economic expansion? Why, there'd be a lot of coronary heart disease and strokes around here. I'm not a sadist. I want you guys to live a long time, ok?

  • JesseAz||

    You're really really bad at parody.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    How loudly are YOU screaming that Trump has increased the deficit by nearly 50% ... in a booming economy?
    Can you tell us WHEN the deficit has EVER increased sharply in a boom?3
    Or why Trump has already added more new debt than Obama did in 8 years? (8 years, forecast vs actual)

  • Red Tony||

    Oh, hello. I'm Super Kami Guru, and I'm the guy who's not judging you on your appearance.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    How loudly are YOU screaming that Trump has increased the deficit by nearly 50% ... in a booming economy?

    Can you tell us WHEN the deficit has EVER increased sharply in a boom?

    Or why Trump has already added more new debt than Obama did in 8 years? (8 years, forecast vs actual)

  • Red Tony||

    Nail, prepare to retrieve the Dragon Ball. And the body.

  • NoVaNick||

    Lets get this straight-neither major political party has ever given a shit about fiscal responsibility.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Yep. The GOP buried Reagan's massive spending cuts, which would have totalled $10 trillion by 2000
    So he asked for a line item veto -- against his own party
    Unlike the current pussy in the White House.

  • Red Tony||

    That's how old I AAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMM!

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    But relevant.

  • Red Tony||

    I AM AN ADULT!

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You're a 6-year-old.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    "It is of course possible to substantially reduce the deficit exclusively via spending cuts. But Trump and his fellow Republicans have demonstrated repeatedly that they have no interest in the cutting spending at the scale that would be necessary."

    However the converse, that it is possible to substantially reduce the deficit exclusively via tax increases is not necessarily true.

    Historically, nearly every time congress has increased taxes, they have increased spending by even more than the projected revenue from the tax increase and actual revenue from the tax increases have almost always fallen short of projections.

    Beyond reversing tax cuts made during the Trump administration, tax increases should be off the table until both parties have demonstrated both interest in and actual capability for spending discipline.

  • chipper me timbers||

    ^This

    There will NEVER be a long term balanced budget. The deficit is always a function of revenue. Always.

    Starve the beast not only works, it's the ONLY thing that works.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    However the converse, that it is possible to substantially reduce the deficit exclusively via tax increases is not necessarily true.

    Historically, nearly every time congress has increased taxes, they have increased spending by even more than the projected revenue from the tax increase and actual revenue from the tax increases have almost always fallen short of projections.

    They have?!?! Boy, i'm glad I come here to listen to my fellow Trump supporters and libertarians. I learn something every day! Wow!

  • CE||

    It's all spending increases. Spending is more than double what it was when Bill Clinton was president.
    How often do tax cuts actually decrease revenues to the Feds?

  • CE||

    Federal tax receipts were 3.268 trillion in 2016, 3.316 trillion in 2017, and estimated to be 3.340 trillion in 2018 (after the tax cuts kick in). Revenues are continuing to go up. The increased deficit is entirely due to spending hikes.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Your own marth says you're full of shit. Revenues increase $24 billion!!! (gasp)
    How much will the deficit increase?
    (over 330 billion)
    How much will spending increase?
    (190 billion)

    Do the math.

  • Red Tony||

    Every party needs a pooper that's why they invited you. Party POOPer. Party POOPer.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    I've been pooping on bullshitters for decades

    Left - Right = Zero

  • Red Tony||

    So. Dende. Sucks about your family.

  • mpercy||

    For about the last 30 years or so, revenues have lagged spending by about 5 years. And the spending curve tends to increase faster than the revenue curve, so the lag is increasing (now about 7 years).

    For example 2015 revenues were $3.249T, while 2010 spending was $3.457T.
    In 2010, revenues were $2.162T, while 2005 spending was $2.471T.
    In 2005, revenues were $2.153T, and spending in 2000 was $1.788T.
    In 2000, revenues were $2.025T, and spending in 1995 was $1.5T.
    In 1995, revenues were $1.351T, and spending in 1990 was $1.252T.

    The big question is, with $3T spending in 2008, and $4T spending now, what are we getting from the government for the extra $1T that we weren't getting in 2008?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    You love useless data. This one is worse than your Obama vs Trump debt. Because this one has nothing at all to do with the debt.

    When has the deficit EVER increased the deficit fby over 50% .... in a single yerr .. with a booming economy?

  • mpercy||

    This comment was a reply to posters comment: "Historically, nearly every time congress has increased taxes, they have increased spending by even more than the projected revenue from the tax increase and actual revenue from the tax increases have almost always fallen short of projections."

    So yeah, it had nothing to do with debt or any of your rantings, except that in the abstract it is interesting to note than even in years in which we have all-time record revenues or all-time year-over-year revenue increases, spending grows even faster. Spending increases are the primary cause of the deficit and accumulated debt.

    And sure, Trump and Republicans have spent the money this time. Did they spend more or less than similarly situated Democrats? We know that Obama and Democrat Congress spent $800B in "temporary stimulus" that is now baked into the budget forever. And Obamacare costs just keep going up.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    This comment was a reply to posters comment: "Historically, nearly every time congress has increased taxes, they have increased spending by even more than the projected revenue from the tax increase and actual revenue from the tax increases have almost always fallen short of projections."

    It was a DIVERSION. Irrelevant.. Useless

    We know that Obama and Democrat Congress spent $800B in "temporary stimulus" that is now baked into the budget forever.

    Fucking liar. PATHETIC FUCKING LIAR.
    That was one-time infrastructure and temporary tax cuts

    IT'S REPUBLICANS FUCKING US FOREVEER.

    Bush's Medicare Prescriptions were "paid for" by LOOTING THE INCOME TAX ... forever.
    Up to 45% of ALL Medicare spending (not just prescriptions) are now subsidized by general revenues.

    Pay attention. Last year's Medicare deficit -- over $300 billion -- was paid for by income taxes, not the Trust FUND.. which has only $290 billion ... and would have gone bankrupt years ago ... but Bush needed Democrats votes and SOLD HIS SOUL: TO BAILOUT A LIBERAL PROGRAM!

    WHY? BECAUSE BOTH PARTIES SUCK..

    Left - Right = Zero.

    (You are WAY above your class. Add this to your tribal nonsense on Trump/Republican New Deal debt. )

  • Azathoth!!||

    It was a DIVERSION. Irrelevant

    No, Michael, it wasn't a 'diversion. Mpercy simply wasn't speaking to you. You have to let others speak to each other if you want to stay out of your room.

    Do we need to get an orderly?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    No, Michael, it wasn't a 'diversion. Mpercy simply wasn't speaking to you.

    IT IS A DIVERSION FROM THE ISSUE.
    That means he changed he subject ... ahs NOTHING to dp with WHO he was speaking to.

    That's your fourth major fuckup on this page.
    (Not counting your confusion on who I am.)

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    When has the deficit EVER increased .... by over 50% .... in a single year .. with a booming economy?

    Evasion
    From in-con-veeeeeeeen-yent facts.
    And another diversion.

  • CE||

    Two have a balanced budget, federal spending would have to be cut way back to 2008 spending levels, when the federal government was so small people were starving in the streets, the world was unpoliced by the USA, interstate highways were shut down and all the federal government workers were complaining that their pension checks bounced.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Did you mean to say back to 1930 levels?

  • David Nolan||

    Welcome to the GOP New Deal!

    Trump has already added more 8-year debt. in less than 2 years, than Obama did after 8 years. Obama had inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s, and handed Trump the longest recovery ever for an incoming President. Never, ever, have deficits risen sharply, in a booming economy. With a trade war likely to cause a crash, like the 1930s. Imagine a recession starting with trillion dollar deficits ... all to Make America Great Again! Suckers.

    Kudlow describes the New Entitlement. Only spending increases debt. Tax cuts let us keep our own money. Even Rand Paul is an entitlement hustler. Fiscal conservatives once explained what should be obvious -- debt-financed tax cuts are stealing from your own children and grandchildren, without their vote. Fiscal conservatives still say that, of course. Many, even in this commentariat, snarl that tax cuts are free money, their "entitlement."

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    Over 60% of Americans self-identify with libertarian values, fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But 91% of those libertarians reject libertarianISM, the ideology. (Per Cato) The ism is now a cult, like the Moonies and Davidians, drinking the same Kool-Aid as Jim Jones' Peoples' Temple.

  • JesseAz||

    Too dumb, didn't read.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Too dumb

    Yes, you are. All down this page.
    Your biggest fuckup was just downpage a littlle

    didn't read.

    Then how do you know it's dumb?
    NOT the brightest bulb on the tree!

  • Red Tony||

    Oh, tell me you didn't let him inside.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    It's crackers to slip a rozzer, the dropsy in snide.

  • Mark22||

    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts. Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    You need to brush up on your libertarian values. It's taxation that violates the NAP, not government deficits or government spending.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Mark22 - Cowardly diversion? Stupid?? Liar???
    All three?????

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    WHERE are "libertarian values ... to be seen?"

    PAY ATTENTION, TRUMPTARD:
    NAP deals with force. Deficits are paid for with FUTURE taxes.
    Unpaid spending AND tax cuts are BOTH money stolen from future generations, WITHOUT THEIR VOTE.
    YOUR "VALUES" no better than Bernie, Elizabeth and Obama.

    MOAR PROOF: Left - Right = Zero

  • mpercy||

    This guy Hinh used to post exactly like this and everyone hated him. You've got him down, kudos for the parody values.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    COWARDLY DIVERSION ... PERSONAL ATTACK ... TYPICAL CONSERVATARD

    Democrat New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free stuff.
    Republican New Dealers borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts.
    Libertarian values? Nowhere to be seen.

    mpercy is punishing me for calling out his bullshit on Federal deficits by our Republican New Dealers and President

  • JesseAz||

    Federal tax revenue is up. It's a spending problem. You can't grow government spending faster than the economy can grow. The only problem from Republicans is the cowardice to cut spending.

  • chipper me timbers||

    Cowardice would imply that they really deep down inside WANT to cut spending but just can't find the will.

    That is of course completely inaccurate.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Federal tax revenue is up.

    + $24 billion

    It's a spending problem.

    + 190 billion.

    YOUR MATH.
    $190 billion spending increase
    - 24 billion revenue increase
    =====
    $330 billion deficit.increase

    You voted for Trump, right?

  • Red Tony||

    OH GOD! GLOBAL WARMING!

  • JesseAz||

    Your comment proves me right. You know you're an idiot right? Did you see the comment about not growing spending faster than the economy? I swear hihn, you need help.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Your comment proves me right.

    You're too fucking stupid to understand such simple math?

    You know you're an idiot right?

    Those words are why this is bold (sneer)

    Did you see the comment about not growing spending faster than the economy?

    Cowardly diversion. IRRELEVANT to this fuckup:.

    Federal tax revenue is up. It's a spending problem

    One more time for Trumptards.
    Deficit is $335 billion higher
    Tax revenue is up ... $24 billion (pees pants laughing)
    Spending is up $190 billion.

    STILL CONFUSED?

    335 - 24 - 190 = $121 BILLION OF DEFICIT FROM TAX CUTS

    And why Trump has already added more 8-year debt, in less than 2 years, than Obama added after 8 years

    New Deal Democrats borrow trillions to pay for fee stuff
    New Deal Republicans borrow trillions to pay for free tax cuts (stolen from their own children!)

    Left - Right = Zero

    Anything else?
    (will be ignored)

  • Red Tony||

    I don't care who you are! Now clean my jowls!

  • Furzeydown||

    And like having to pull the trigger to remove the ACA when given the opportunity, they will flinch. Cutting spending is politically (read : power) impossible, as doing so would likely see them back in the minority of Congress.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    And like having to pull the trigger to remove the ACA when given the opportunity, they will flinch

    They had NO replacement ... after all those years of whining.
    So Obamacare is now more popular than ever. Also single-payer. It was dumbass Republicans who created Obamacare -- refused the original bipartisan package, which would have killed single-payer forever ... forcing Obama to his far left!

    Under Kennedy -- before Republicans became the STUPID party -- they worked with Kennedy on his tax cuts -- which were strongly opposed by the far left in Congress, the AFL-CIO etc.

    So Kennedy's tax cuts launched the first of only two postwar booms. Reagan's was the other, and he copied Kennedy's exactly to also get bipartisan support

  • Red Tony||

    Nail. Don't take his coat.

  • Cloudbuster||

    Thanks, Republicans!

    This has been a fully bipartisan, multi-generational effort.

  • BYODB||

    The only people that voted against it were Republicans, yet somehow Democrats have no culpability in their 100% agreement that spending must go up.


    Seems legit.


    Anyway, he said, deficits are a product of too much spending. "We spent too much, I absolutely agree," Kudlow said. "Down the road of course we'd like to slim that down as much as possible." This is the way it always is with Republicans: tax cuts now, spending reductions later.


    Yeah, because Democrats aren't going to let them cut spending. No, seriously, it's true. Republicans would need to be as united as Democrats are in favor of less spending to have any hope, but there are plenty of Republicans that like more spending to buy votes just as much as Democrats love it.


    That you skewer the only party that even mentions deficits is telling. In no scenario were deficits going to vanish, yet somehow no one mentions that the baseline is a deficit. Go figure.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    That you skewer the only party that even mentions deficits is telling

    Yeah, but it's all talk and no action.bullshit. For their puppets, who are clueless that the GOP is the largest debt creator ever,

    That you defend the party which has already, in less than two years, added more 8-year debt than Obama did after 8 years is telling.

    The party with the ONLY massive debt increase EVER, in a booming economy, Go figure.

    Obama inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited the longest expansion EVER, for an incoming President - from Obama.

    When an Obama kicks the shit out of you ... less debt in a worse economy -- that's what we call a massive fucking failure,

    New Deal Democrats borrow trillions to provide free stuff.
    New Deal Republicans and faux libertarians borrow trillions to provide free tax cuts.
    Both stealing from their own children and grandchildren (who have NO vote in the matter)

  • Mark22||

    Yeah, but it's all talk and no action.bullshit.

    You should be very familiar with that.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Marl22 -- conservatard THUG -- humiliated AGAIN here.
    (sneer)

  • turco||

    I am listening to a podcast about the French revolution right now. And really what did the ancien regime in was massive debt that could not be financed anymore. The King tried many times to reform taxes , and cut some spending and limit rent-seekers, but vested interest thwarted him eventually. Until the interest on the debt became too much, and it all blew up.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Religious, girl-bullying, bomb-dropping, prohibitionist looters are still looters. Not my party...

  • Jerry B.||

    But trillion dollar deficits are already here. 2009 to 2012 were all trillion dollar deficit years.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Are you serious? Those include the second worst recession since the 1930s.

    Herr Trumpster did ift in a booming economy, And this year, he'll increase the annual deficit by 50%, in a booming economy. And Obama handed him the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President.

    Even crazier, Herr Trumpster has ALREADY added more to 8-year debt than Obama added AFTER 8 years,
    Make American DEBT Greater Than Ever,

  • Jerry B.||

    Nevertheless, trillion dollar deficits aren't NEARLY here. They've already been here. Maybe the headline should have been "Trillion Dollar Deficits Are Nearly Here Again".

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Evasion?

    And this year, he'll increase the annual deficit by 50%, in a booming economy. And Obama handed him the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President.
    Even crazier, Herr Trumpster has ALREADY added more to 8-year debt than Obama added AFTER 8 years,
    Nevertheless

    Facts are SO inconvenient. So let's evade reality and focus on trivia.

    trillion dollar deficits aren't NEARLY here. They've already been here

    Why do you people all recite the same nonsense? Is Sunday nearly here? Can a payday be nearly here? My next phone bill? Why can't you people handle elementary English? And how does THAT compare with Trump's disgraceful results on debt?

    1) In less than two years, he has added more new debt than Obama did in EIGHT years? (Latest CBO forecast)

    2) When has ANY President EVER increased the deficit by 50% ... in ONE year ... with a booming economy?

    Well?

  • Mark22||

    In less than two years, he has added more new debt than Obama did in EIGHT years?

    I think you have conclusively proven now that you are the reincarnation of Goebbels.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Suck it up AGAIN Trumptard!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL -- 8-year debt
    $ 9.6 T Obama (after 8 years)
    $10.7 T Trump (in only TWO years, wants MORE)

    Obama's 8-year debt (billions) 19,539.6 - 9,986.1 = 9,553.5

    Trump's 8-year debt
    $30,042 August Forecast (804 estimate 2018)
    ++++196 (New estimate 2018)
    =$30,238 (2025 Debt)
    ---19,549 (Trump inherited)
    ==10,689 (Trump already)

    Trump, first President to EVER increase deficit by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy (OMFG) (same link)

    Obama inherited 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited longest recovery EVER for an incoming President -- FROM OBAMA!!!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL == WORSE THAN OBAMA

    I think you have conclusively proven now that you are the reincarnation of Goebbels.

    You are now a PROVEN psycho, AGAIN (sneer)

  • Charles Barr||

    The DEBT is not the DEFICIT. And the DEFICIT is not the DEBT.

    Government BORROWING drives up the debt, not government SPENDING.

    The solution to our debt problem is simple: STOP ISSUING DEBT-BASED MONEY! Begin issuing pure "unbacked" fiat money to fund the deficit, rather than going further into debt. The inflationary impact of unbacked dollars is no worse than the inflationary impact of the same amount of debt-backed dollars. Issuing unbacked dollars will halt the increase in the national debt and its crushing $430 billion in annual interest. Paying off part of the maturing debt each year and rolling over the rest will eventually bring the national debt (and its taxpayer-financed interest payments) down to zero. See www.fixourmoney.com .

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Government BORROWING drives up the debt, not government SPENDING.

    What causes the borrowing?

    Your link is bat-shit crazy.
    a) There is no such thing as debt-based money.
    b) You want to run the government on Monopoly money. Just PRINT whatever dollars are needed to cover the deficit.
    c) Then print ANOTHER $20 trillion to pay off the debt, but slowly so your INTENTIONAL INFLATION is spread out over time.

    The inflationary impact of unbacked dollars is no worse than the inflationary impact of the same amount of debt-backed dollars.

    That's how you got suckered,

    What your braying-ass web site says is that we now do BOTH. Borrow money to pay the deficit. AND print money to pay the SAME deficit, which is double-counting/ THEN he says we can skip the borrowing, just print money. So why are we borrowing at all?

    Here's the crazy bullshit

    because the amount of money in circulation at any time is tied to the government's accumulated budget deficit.

    (laughing) Only if we're already doing what he proposes, which he says would NOT create debt, but we have over $20 trillion in debt. Double counting.

    The moon is made of green cheese. Obama was born in Kenya. And Donald J Trump is NOT a raving psychopath.

  • Mark22||

    "Nearly?" We have had trillion dollar deficits most years since 2008.

    And by "deficit" I mean "increase in the national debt", which is really all that counts, any other measure being a meaningless accounting trick.

  • David Nolan||

    FALSE
    Trumpsters, like Trump, keep inventing whatever they need at the moment.

    Like THIS:

    And by "deficit" I mean "increase in the national debt", which is really all that counts, any other measure being a meaningless accounting trick.

    FALSE
    That's is NOT what deficit means. NO CONSPIRACY!!. Proof!

    PLUS

    1) Trump promised to pay off the entire debt in 8 years. Instead, he's ALREADY added over $11 Trillion, which is MORE than Obama added AFTER his 8 years, ($9.5T) = MASSIVE FAIL.
    Obama inherited the 2nd worst recession since the 1930s and handed Trump the LONGEST RECOVERY EVER, for ANY incoming President.

    2( Today's New Deal Republicans have increased the deficit over 50% in one year ... with a booming economy.Nobody has EVER been so fiscally shameful.

    Welcome to the Republican New Deal!

    Left - Right = Zero

  • Mark22||

    Trumpsters, like Trump, keep inventing whatever they need at the moment.

    I wouldn't know not being a "Trumpster".

    I do know that you are a senile old fool who is lying through his teeth.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Suck it up AGAIN, dumbass Mark22

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL -- 8-year debt
    $ 9.6 T Obama (after 8 years)
    $10.7 T Trump (in only TWO years, wants MORE)

    Obama's 8-year debt (billions) 19,539.6 - 9,986.1 = 9,553.5

    Trump's 8-year debt
    $30,042 August Forecast (804 estimate 2018)
    ++++196 (New estimate 2018)
    =$30,238 (2025 Debt)
    ---19,549 (Trump inherited)
    ==10,689 (Trump already)

    Trump, first President to EVER increase deficit by over 50% ... in one year ... with a booming economy (OMFG) (same link)

    Obama inherited 2nd worst recession since the 1930s.
    Trump inherited longest recovery EVER for an incoming President -- FROM OBAMA!!!

    THE REPUBLICAN NEW DEAL == WORSE THAN OBAMA

    I do know that you are a senile old fool who is lying through his teeth.

    You are now a PROVEN psycho, AGAIN!!! (sneer)

    Left - Right = Zero

  • mpercy||

    How do you keep your sock puppet accounts straight?

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    How do you avoid being publicly humiliated?, Trumptard?

  • Duelles||

    Spending is out of control. Freebies to the victims of living in the wealthiest country ever need MORE. Somehow the dirt turds are winning. WTF are they thinking in Washington.WTF!!!

  • Jr12||

    Is this a big tent libertarian inclusion effort to attract the numerical majority of university indoctrinated, politicized bigots and thieves of the left. What does libertarianism offer to those electing political enablers to help transfer to themselves, the cooperatively earned incomes and opportunities of others. Nothing. What does the Democratic Party offer but the lionization of thieves as the fake morally superior champions of social justice. What does the fake Republican opposition party offer, nothing but a useless repository for opposition votes. Why is Reason siding with Democrats, as though Republicans were the cause of political exploitation and its adverse consequences, when the cause is the thieving racist scum electing Democrats to steal whatever they want from whoever has it.

  • Jr12||

    P.S. The next step for the thieving left when they run out of other people's money is always property confiscation. Did Reason not recognize that Hillary's campaign promise of 65% death taxes will force numerous businesses into bankruptcy with impossible to pay amounts due D.C., allowing D.C. to profit from the sale of property confisacated via unpaid political debt. While certainly it is better to position the libertarian party as supportive of the winning left in any unopposed leftist welfare state, the left has a record documenting its treatment of those who will not stand for the theft of anything, from, anyone for any reason. Reason's cowardly, self serving betrayal of the anti-theft libertarian constituency is contemptible, not the political clarity of accurate thought.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    Wow. Pay attention

    1) Other than Trump, name ANY President or party that INCREASED deficit spending ... over 50% ... in a single year ... notwithstanding a booming economy.

    2) How have Trump and Republicans managed to ALREADY add more 8-year debt ... than Obama did AFTER 8 years? (Obama actual vs CBO forecast for 2024) .... and planning to add ANOTHER $2 trillion?
    Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression
    Trump inherited the LONGEST recovery EVER for an incoming President -- from Obama.

    not the political clarity of accurate thought.

    Umm, why are you so easily manipulated by the political; elite?

  • Jr12||

    So your argument is that since Democrats added less debt to an outrageous trillion dollar deficit than Republicans, libertarians must vote Democrat. Funny that used to be the same excuse that demanded Republican votes from libertarians, whenever Republicans accidentally crapped up by not stealing as much as Democrats.

  • Ellis Wyatt||

    So your argument is that since Democrats added less debt to an outrageous trillion dollar deficit than Republicans, libertarians must vote Democrat.

    COWARDLY diversion,
    Moves you from a bullshitting windbag to ALSO a psycho

    1) Other than Trump, name ANY President or party that INCREASED deficit spending ... over 50% in a single year ... notwithstanding a booming economy.

    COWARDLY EVASION
    PROVES you a full-of-shit blowhard,.

    2) How have Trump and Republicans managed to ALREADY add more 8-year debt ... than Obama did AFTER 8 years? (Obama actual vs CBO forecast for 2024) .... and planning to add ANOTHER $2 trillion?

    COWARDLY EVASION
    PROVES you a full-of-shit blowhard,.

    Umm, why are you so easily manipulated by the political; elite?

    COWARDLY EVASION
    PROVES you a full-of-shit blowhard,.

    Left - Right = Zero
    This is WHY we've been ridiculing both of you for a half-century
    Brainwashed puppets on a string.

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