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Rand Paul's Violent Neighbor Motivated by Brush Piles on Paul's Property

Some pundits blamed the victim, but the attack that broke six of Paul's ribs was motivated by aesthetic rage, not some actual fault of Paul's.

One of the more peculiar politics-adjacent stories of last year was November's brutal attack on Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.). Paul's neighbor Rene Boucher was formally charged for the attack in January.

ReasonReason

At the time, pundits hostile to Paul quickly victim-blamed for the vicious assault, which gave Paul six broken ribs and lung lacerations. GQ declared him an "asshole neighbor" who is one of those troublesome "Libertarians [who] don't want to follow the rules that we as a society have agreed upon, because they feel those rules step on their freedoms." (Apparently, someone accused Paul of "believ[ing] in stronger property rights than exist in America" because he composts and grows pumpkins on his property.) The New Yorker similarly praised attacker (and Democrat!) Boucher as a "near-perfect neighbor" and looked suspiciously on the libertarian-leaning Paul for thinking all that property rights stuff maybe meant he shouldn't be sent to the hospital by his "near perfect neighbor" for things he did with his lawn.

Politico saw Paul's inability to come to a Coasean solution, irrespective of property rights, of whatever grievance prompted his neighbor to break his ribs as a sign that "one or both of them is a jerk. I believe that this is an excellent working hypothesis. I've seen Senator Paul up close. He is, let us say, pretty high on himself." USA Today gave the developer of the two men's housing association space to condemn Paul, without much in the way of actionable specifics, for wanting to control his own property too much.

Now the specifics of what motivated Boucher—unknown, it should be stressed, by all the above pundits and reporters who were sure it was Paul's fault—are more well-established in the public record as Boucher seeks probation instead of jail time for his crime.

Boucher was very upset, apparently, by piles of brush on Paul's property, though within sight of Boucher's. He had been reacting to these offending brush piles by paying to have them hauled to dumpsters, then by setting a yard fire to destroy them (so carelessly that he gave himself second-degree burns), and eventually by attacking Paul.

In addition to the brush piles in his neighbor's property, Boucher also insists that Paul's use of a lawnmower the day of the attack blew some leaves onto Boucher's property—the only activity of Paul's that sounds even close to a legitimate complaint, though obviously not a "send neighbor to hospital" level of complaint. Sometimes, even a person with libertarian leanings doesn't deserve to have six of his ribs broken for believing he has some rights to use his own property.

UPDATE: Sen. Paul's office provided this statement about Boucher and his claims:

Before Senator Paul was violently attacked from behind, he had no conversations or discussions with the attacker. There was no "longstanding dispute." This description is untrue. It is impossible to have a dispute when no words of disagreement were ever spoken--neither immediately nor at any other time before the attack occurred. In the decade prior to the attack, Senator Paul had no contact with the attacker. The attack was a pre-meditated assault that broke six of the Senator's ribs and was complicated by fluid and blood around the lung and recurrent pneumonia. Any description of this attack that implies a "yard dispute" justifies such violence misses the point.

Correction: An earlier version of the post and its sub-headline stated that Paul had only five ribs broken.

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  • lap83||

    What would be a legitimate reason to tackle someone from behind, on their own property, hard enough to break their ribs?

  • Get To Da Chippah||

    The person being tackled is a Nazi!

    ~Resident of Progtopia

  • lap83||

    I guess I would be touchy too if I thought half the country should be on trial for war crimes

  • greasonable||

    My best friend's ex-wife makes Bucks75/hr on the laptop.


    Don't you believe it

    Reason said:

    not

    Reference

  • JWatts||

    Or a Republican, but that's really the same thing.

    ~Resident of Progtopia

  • Árboles de la Barranca||

    My theory has always been that Rand cast an anti-war vote in the Senate and set off his violence-prone war-progressive neighbor.

  • Just Say'n||

    It should be noted that other neighbors dispute the lie that these publications have parroted.

    www.washingtonexaminer.com/ran.....le/2640090

    The neighbor, along with democratic partisans and the media (but, I repeat myself), have a vested interest in pushing the narrative that it was over yard waste as he would face a stiffer penalty if the attack was about politics

  • Zeb||

    That provides some reason to doubt the "landscaping dispute" story, but doesn't exactly contradict it.

    Normal, sane people don't attack their neighbors over yard waste or over politics, so who knows? But I don't think posting partisan political crap on Twitter is evidence of a tendency to violently attack Senators.

    I wonder what Rand thinks motivated his neighbor to attack him? Has he said anything?

  • Just Say'n||

    He forwarded the article before via Twitter, per another news article.

    Regardless, in a span of a few months someone tried to shoot Paul during that baseball game and then his neighbor tackles him and breaks his ribs. And Paul wasn't carrying during either incident? Who's not armed when you're at baseball practice? This has put a real dent in his libertarian street cred

  • Zeb||

    And Paul wasn't carrying during either incident? Who's not armed when you're at baseball practice? This has put a real dent in his libertarian street cred

    That' the real scandal here.

  • Zeb||

    But seriously, if Rand thinks it had some political motivation, that would incline me more toward believing a political motivation.

    Whatever it was, the guy probably deserves to do some time.

  • Paloma||

    I think the "aesthetics" was an excuse. Had a white Republican dentist tackled a black Democrat senator, nobody is going to blame the lawn.

  • Ariki||

    To people that are filled with irrational hate I can see how the landscaping issue could become the straw that broke the camels back.

    As such I would say that this attack is the natural conclusion of TDS.

  • Zeb||

    Or really stupid political tribalism in general. There will always be a few shitheads who take things way too far.

  • DenverJ||

    Not being part of the collective. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

  • perlchpr||

    They're about to commit an obvious murder. Like, "Killing a five year old with a fire axe" sort of obvious murder.

  • ThomasD||

    Politics, and government power having become so intertwined in our daily existence, has become an extremely contentious prize. So while political violence is wrong it is at least someheat understandable.

    That the precipitating issue was neighborhood aesthetics in no way minimizes the act.

    That he's a nut who loses his shit over yard debris who also happens to have different politics than Paul is likewise not coincidental.

  • Just Say'n||

    Bull. I don't buy this garbage excuse. And we all know that Rand's neighbor is just a patsy. He wasn't even involved in this whole fiasco. The real perpetrator remains at large. Turn yourself in, Ken. The long arm of the law awaits.

    (just kidding, Ken)

  • $park¥ leftist poser||

    If you're talking about "Ken Shultz" you're crazy. I think "Ken Shultz" would have a hard time breaking a squirrel's ribs.

  • Just Say'n||

    Ken's not a big Rand fan. It's a joke

  • $park¥ leftist poser||

    Sorry, didn't realize I couldn't make a joke off your joke.

  • Just Say'n||

    Now you know.

    I didn't gather that you were cracking a joke at first. My mistake

  • RogerNorthup||

    Is this what's known as a joke-off? Or a circle-joke?

  • SQRLSY One||

    This joke is broke, you bloke!

  • Just Say'n||

    You'd understand the joke if you were woke

  • kevrob||

    ...or if you were awake. Someone awaken him. We should have woken him long ago.

    (I'm so white.)

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I do know that Ken is an avowed fan of the Circle Jokes.

  • Dillinger||

    we just get by however we can...

  • Entropy Drehmaschine Void||

  • DenverJ||

    Ooh look everyone, an internet tough guy talking shit from the safety of his terminal.

  • $park¥ leftist poser||

    Duh, that's what we do out here on the Internet. Clearly you're new here so we'll give you a pass this time.

  • General_Tso||

    All we need is some reasonable, common sense brush pile control.

  • SQRLSY One||

    Agreed! I have known some babes with WAY outta-control brush piles!!!

  • SQRLSY One||

    It occurs to me that perhaps there may be some sort of "evolutionary arms race" between "brush pile control" and "birth control". Those women who do NOT exercise at least SOME moderate degree of "brush pile control" have NO need for "birth control", while those who use "birth control" are less likely to birth, and raise, those kinds of young girls who will grow up to be "wild and wooly", and therefor, need ANY kind of "brush pile control".

    Wow, I have managed to confuse even myself! Boolean logic, if, else-if, else, not-if, WHAT do we need here-hair!??!

    Let A = "brush pile control"
    Let B = "birth control"

    Hypothesis, A-not negates need for B, and both A-Not and B = less reproductive success.

    Hypothesis, B (being representative of those who treasure "control" in general) will lead to more "A" offspring, and less "A-Not" offspring.

    Both of these two above seem reasonable. If you want reproductive success (evolution will NOT argue with you here!), then you want both A and B-not! So the conclusion is... If'n ye are looking for reproductive success in the first place... Is...

    B-not! Be Naughty, then!!!! GO for it!!!!

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I read your website last week, and I still haven't recovered.

  • SQRLSY One||

    OK then GREAT!

    Then can we get the FDA to read it at http://www.churchofsqrls.com/ in the profound hope that...

    ...They, too, shall NEVER recover!?!?

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    All the evidence is there that they never recovered either.

  • gormadoc||

    I didn't realize it was real. Oh boy is it real.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    Do try to understand that not everybody shares your fetish.

  • Will Nonya||

    What about some common sense tackle people from behind reforms?

    Since this is in the news it's obviously hitting critical levels. The latest statistics clearly show that millions of people a day suffer these types of attacks. When will the madness stop? We must do something!

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Paul's use of a lawnmower the day of the attack blew some leaves onto Boucher's property—the only activity of Paul's that sounds even close to a legitimate complaint, though obviously not a "send neighbor to hospital" level of complaint

    Sounds like blatant trespass to me. Paul is lucky the aggrieved property owner didn't shoot him.

  • Sevo||

    "Boucher was very upset, apparently, by piles of brush on Paul's property, though within sight of Boucher's. He had been reacting to these offending brush piles by paying to have them hauled to dumpsters, then by setting a yard fire to destroy them (so carelessly that he gave himself second-degree burns), and eventually by attacking Paul.
    In addition to the brush piles in his neighbor's property, Boucher also insists that Paul's use of a lawnmower the day of the attack blew some leaves onto Boucher's property—the only activity of Paul's that sounds even close to a legitimate complaint, though obviously not a "send neighbor to hospital" level of complaint. Sometimes, even a person with libertarian leanings doesn't deserve to have five of his ribs broken for believing he has some rights to use his own property."

    Lefty imbeciles, like the asshole above, are given to violence over the slightest issue.

  • Zeb||

    I really don't think that's peculiar to lefty imbeciles, or even lefty assholes. Assholes with poor impulse control can be found all over the political spectrum.

  • Entropy Drehmaschine Void||

    yet they DO tend to skew "Lefty"

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Your disregard of property rights, and sympathy for trespassers, is noted and disdained.

    Carry on, clingers. More superstition, bigotry, and protectionism, please!

  • damikesc||

    ....says the open borders troll...

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    ....says the open borders troll...

    That's a long and awkward substitute for "libertarian," you authoritarian rube.

  • damikesc||

    I didn't expect you to notice your own hypocrisy, bless your heart.

  • Sevo||

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|6.12.18 @ 4:25PM|#
    "Your disregard of property rights, and sympathy for trespassers, is noted and disdained."
    Your poor concept of property rights and general idiocy is noted and rates a 'fuck you'.

    "Carry on, clingers. More superstition, bigotry, and protectionism, please!"
    Carry on, asshole, more idiocy expected.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    It's interesting, actually. Rev K comes here looking to provoke people, gets what he wants, and keeps coming back. Proving that you get more of what you subsidize.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    If I provoke right-wingers by noting their hypocrisy, backwardness, bigotry, and faux libertarianism, I am content.

  • damikesc||

    You seem far less in tune with your own hypocrisy, son.

  • Jack Klompus Magic Ink||

    Every human being on the planet would celebrate for days if you were repeatedly run over by a garbage truck.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Just the bigots and authoritarian, backward, half-educated right-wing goobers.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Honestly, mostly nobody would care if any of us died. Except Crusty. Even those who don't know him would feel an unexplained sense of relief.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    So, prior to the attack, he's been trespassing on Paul's property, and stealing from him?

  • MarkLastname||

    If that's what it sounds like to you, then you're retarded.

    But do tell us agai how you, an overt supporter of political violence who is indifferent to the rule of law and due process, are enlightened and civilized, and the rest of us are backwards.

  • ace_m82||

    Justice is repayment to the victim... in proportion.

    An eye for an eye, and all that.

    The WORST you could demand if someone blew leaves on your property would be to blow leaves on their property.

    Stop strawmanning.

  • Tony||

    Who grows pumpkins?

  • Just Say'n||

    Who drinks soy lattes?

  • Tony||

    The lactose intolerant?

  • Just Say'n||

    Oh, come on. Just drink it black then. Or just deal with the diarrhea

  • Tony||

    I do not drink soy milk because I do not want man boobs.

    However, the best sesame chicken I ever ate was made of tofu.

  • Ron||

    Soy has fewer hormones than your average steak. That said i gave up soy milk since it turns out to be five times worse than beer if you are a gout sufferer.

  • ravenshrike||

    No, soybean oil has fewer hormones than your average steak. Which is a worthless comparison since most people are talking about soybean products with significant nutritional value.

  • ||

    I do not drink soy milk because I do not want man boobs.

    You know that flax seeds contain triple the amount of estrogens as soybeans and like 30X the amount of soy milk right? Even sesame seeds are relatively 'high estrogen' compared to soy milk. Not that I don't think soy milk is garbage as a food product, just that your fear seems more superstitious than legitimate as the estrogens and flavones you're worried about aren't water soluble and don't really turn up in soy milk as much as they do (flax)seed and (flax)seed oil.

  • Tony||

    Guess how often I eat flax.

  • Jack Klompus Magic Ink||

    Do you honestly think anyone is interested in any details about your pathetic miserable life?

  • Ariki||

    the best sesame chicken I ever ate was made of tofu.

    The derp, it hurts.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    So it was sesame tofu, not sesame chicken.

  • Tony||

    Spiced and shaped to taste and appear like chicken. The whole menu was like that.

  • kevrob||

    Who protects us from "food fraud" like tofurkey and facon?

  • Bubba Jones||

    lactose free milk?

  • lap83||

    Hitler?

  • gormadoc||

    Is this one of those Tony tantrums I've heard so much about?

    But seriously, lots of people.

  • Tony||

    For what?

    I have used a single pumpkin to make a pie, roasted seeds, and a jack-o-lantern, but it's a pretty seasonal thing.

  • Just Say'n||

    Pumpkin is delicious. Nine out of ten white girls will tell you that

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Its all in the seed.

  • lap83||

    and that pumpkin you used had to be grown by someone somewhere /dripping condescension

  • Tony||

    Yeah a freakin pumpkin vendor.

  • lap83||

    Do you think pumpkins magically spring up in the back room of the Whole Foods? Someone grows the pumpkin and they sell it to a store or at a farmer's market. Why couldn't it be Rand Paul?

  • Tony||

    So full-time senator, part-time pumpkin farmer? And we're surprised he got his ass handed to him?

  • lap83||

    "pumpkin farmer"

    I loled. There is nothing else to talk about here

  • lap83||

    Is it a point of pride for liberals to sound like they don't know where food comes from?

  • Zeb||

    Only the sophisticated urbanite types. There are also the liberals who think that "farm to table" eating is going to save the world or something.

  • Tony||

    How were we supposed to know it comes from Rand Paul?

  • lap83||

    Yeah, how can I eat a vegetable if I don't know the farmer's political views? We need some new legislation to address this problem immediately!

  • damikesc||

    Sucker punch equals "getting ass handed to him", eh?

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Tony certainly has a low threshold for violence.

  • Just Say'n||

    It never ceases to amaze me that the same crowd that claims that words are violence are the first ones to applaud actual violence against their political enemies

  • Zeb||

    If I'm not mistaken, that's exactly how they justify the violence against political enemies.

  • Tony||

    Funny, because it constantly amazes me how defensive you guys will get when I'm, for example, pretending to care about Rand Paul's pumpkins.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I'm defending a victim of assault. You're the one who seems to be justifying it by saying it was about pumpkins.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Pacifists are among the most violent people you'll ever meet.

  • ||

    And we're surprised he got his ass handed to him?

    I don't think anyone anywhere is surprised he got his ass handed to him. I think, at most, they're standing on the principle that the fight, were it to be conducted, should've been conducted in an upstanding, face-to-face fashion.

    Not that Paul would've won as there are plenty of 6'4" 225 lbs. pro athletes who wouldn't stand up to the tactics that were employed against him, but regardless of the outcome, the method was underhanded by some of our most brutish social standards.

  • Tony||

    Not the most gentlemanly way of handling things, and Rand is a midget. But you know he can definitely be annoying enough to provoke this from even a rational person. He can barely get through a sentence Randsplaining economic bullshit without rolling his eyes at you.

  • Agammamon||

    Because he's explaining, for the umpteenth time, basic economic concepts - to a moron.

  • damikesc||

    Some gay dudes are excessively irritating. Guess they ALSO should have the shit kicked out of them if they bug folks.

  • MarkLastname||

    Tony, "jeez guys I was just kidding; but beating the shot out of him was totally rational and understandable. Why are you guys so sensitive?"

    Leninist dipshits like you are the best case against democracy.

  • Paloma||

    Are we surprised that a progressive democrat uses underhanded tactics?

  • Sometimes a Great Notion||

    So full-time senator, part-time pumpkin farmer? And we're surprised he got his ass handed to him?

    Jimmy Carter- part time president, full time peanut?

  • Tony||

    Who got beat badly... by a part-time lucid, part-time monkey wrangler.

  • damikesc||

    How does it benefit you to demean the dude who BEAT you?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to build them up as a God?

    Obama was a brilliant politician with an intense mean streak and a willingness to lie with impunity and a press that thought he was dreamy. He was a fucking abysmal President, but he was a great campaigner. Never has a lack of shame been used so impressively.

  • Trinian||

    Wasn't Jimmy Carter the president who got attacked by a rabbit while swimming?

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Burst out laughing. Thanks.

  • gormadoc||

    Soup, roasted, seeds, pie, starchy vegetable, fried, ... It's great a lot of ways.

  • gormadoc||

    I use it quite a bit in season like other gourds. It's good in curries, too.

  • lap83||

    I make pumpkin bread. It costs me less to make one loaf than Starbucks charges for one slice of theirs

  • gormadoc||

    I do that too. It makes fantastic bread and Jack o'lantern pumpkins with fine for that.

  • Agammamon||

    That's your problem Tony, you don't do it so you don't understand why it might me an imposition on someone else if they're prevented from doing it.

    'Why can't everyone just like what I like!?'

  • Bubba Jones||

    You have to plant the pumpkin in the spring if you want to roast the seeds in the autumn.

  • Zeb||

    I have grown pumpkins. Then there are those weirdos who grow 1000 pound pumpkins just to show they can.

  • Dillinger||

    my grandfather did that when he worked up in Alaska for a decade. buick-sized everything

  • Zeb||

    My favorite are the giant cabbages.

  • Dillinger||

    they look like loungers or beanbags

  • kevrob||

    I live within walking distance of pumpkin farms. The farmers run "pick your own pumpkin" operations in October, before Halloween. It's a nice family outing. You want the smaller "sugar pumpkins" for cooking and baking. Sweet corn, cucumbers, green beans, potatoes, strawberries, tomatoes, squash are all grown nearby. The farms are usually small, and most have a roadside farm stand. There's a dairy farm 2 miles away, where, if I wanted it, I could buy raw (unpasteurized) milk. Is their ice cream ever good!

    I suppose if you want to make artisanal honey on a Brooklyn rooftop, that's OK with the leftoids, but a pumpkin patch just goes to far! As mentioned previously, maybe it isn't sincere enough? [/L Van Pelt]

  • BYODB||

    Why do women wear such short skirts? It's like they're asking for it, right?

    /sarc

  • MarkLastname||

    If the woman getting raped isn't a leftist, then Tony probably agrees.

  • Scotticus Finch||

    I do, and I also live in Kentucky. They're super-easy and really big (like your mom), so my small kids freak the hell out about seeing them grow. And (so far) they come back every year. Best $0.39 I ever spent (other than on your mom).

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Haha! Growing stuff is great fun and rewarding.

  • ace_m82||

    My brother. My mother.

    How do you think you get them during Halloween/Thanksgiving? Magic?

  • widget||

    I believe Paul's home is in one of those gated communities with an HOA. His neighbor was just enforcing the HOA rules a bit too vigorously.

  • Sevo||

    Pretty sure it's also in a municipality; Paul could have enforced self-defense rights by shooting the scumbag.

  • croaker||

    And in Pennsyltucky that might have actually worked.

  • widget||

    Shooting your neighbor, or just discharging a firearm, is also a violation of HOA rules. Lawmakers should live among the people they represent, like ghetto troll Maxine Waters does.

  • kevrob||

    You are only allowed to shoot visitors who don't sign in at the gate?

  • ||

    I don't doubt it's a gated community and that there's an HOA around or involved. I'm fairly certain that it's against City Ordinance in Bowling Green to burn brush openly and I can't imagine the HOA doesn't have some manner of in kind policy on the matter.

  • Just Say'n||

    I've lit a candle at my Ron Paul alter every day since this attack and offered a silent prayer ("in the name of the Mises, the Rothbard, and the gold standard") hoping for a speedy recovery.

  • ace_m82||

    While that's legitimately funny, I don't think the good Christian Ron Paul would appreciate having an altar made in his name.

  • croaker||

    I call bullshit. Stuff him in GenPop.

  • libertynugget||

    Libertarianism is great.
    Both men have the right to be as big an asshole as they want.
    Bobby Boucher's asshole-itudeness infringed upon Paul's civil liberties in the form of broken ribs, therefor Boucher is an 'illegal' asshole.

    I'm still free to support Rand's assholeneology and don't have to compromise any of my principles.

  • Dillinger||

    five broken ribs from a tackle in the yard screams for more milk and vegetables

  • Tony||

    Pumpkin--not a great source of calcium.

  • Dillinger||

    everything *except* protein and D in a pumpkin so no bone help, no

    nobody says you have to wait until October to bake a pie btw

  • gormadoc||

    Well, without the D there's no hope for bones!

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Maybe he even just enjoyed growing pumpkins.

  • Ron||

    depends on how you land

  • croaker||

    Matt Baker needs to put down the crack pipe. His client put a serving US Senator in the hospital, 21 months is light. Probation is Right Out.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    The American justice system may go light on him, but the Great Pumpkin sees all, knows all...

  • Agammamon||

    Let's not get into 'Top Men' worship here. Paul is just a man. None of this 'special rules for the rulers' bullshit.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    You mean the same natural rights and civil liberties that we would defend for anyone else in this scenario? I've seen that doublespeak used to justify turning a blind eye toward political violence before.

  • DajjaI||

    This was clearly terrorism. I don't understand the apologism. Attempt at satire? Anyway these attacks on Rand have only vindicated his politics.

  • Zeb||

    How can people live in places like that? If I want to pile shit in my yard or not mow my lawn, then that's what I'll do.

  • Tony||

    Depressing your neighbors' home values is a little like stealing, no?

  • Just Say'n||

    Wouldn't that same logic work for when the government tries to build affordable housing next to your home? I don't think this is a road you want to go down

  • Tony||

    The road to the concept of externalities is one we need to go down if we're going to make any progress on turning libertarian economics into something that to some small extent has any relation to reality.

  • Just Say'n||

    That's nonsense. There are zero externalities from storing branches in your own backyard.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Libertarianism has yet to deal with the externality of my neighbors houses all ruining MY view.

  • ||

    There are zero externalities from storing branches in your own backyard.

    Not to take Tony's side too much (nobody seems to have provided evidence of Paul's alleged infractions) but, yeah, piles of wood and branches attract rodents and vermin as well as colonizing insects. Depending on the situation, the rodents and vermin can attract more dangerous predators. I certainly agree that 'Your wood pile will attract dangerous coyotes that could attack children.' is an obnoxious whataboutism, but at the same time, I know of at least a half dozen people who've had to contact exterminators year-over-year, at cost, about ants and termites that were nesting in a wood pile on a neighbor's property having the lowest-cost, one-off solution denied to them because neighbors.

  • Zeb||

    That is a thing. But I live in the woods, which is full of vermin, coyotes and carpenter ants, so I don't think I'm contributing much. And I'm not that messy. Though my mom was making fun of me the other day for looking like Appalachia because of all the old tires and scrap metal and old windows. I told her that technically we are Appalachia and that I'm trying to maintain realistic property values.

  • Just Say'n||

    It sounds like you live either a really fascinating rugged life or a really lonely writing a manifesto kind of existence. I'm always surprised by what you say, Zeb

  • ||

    But I live in the woods, which is full of vermin, coyotes and carpenter ants, so I don't think I'm contributing much.

    I didn't exactly mean in your specific situation or any time wood is piled as much as the fact that there are plenty of places where the myth of 'zero externalities' is easily busted.

  • Just Say'n||

    "there are plenty of places where the myth of 'zero externalities' is easily busted"

    True. You could find externalities for anything. But, then you have to way the cost of the externality versus the violation of someone's property rights

  • Zeb||

    I just like an excuse to talk about my fascinating, rugged life.

  • Just Say'n||

    Just be sure to post your manifesto here first

  • Just Say'n||

    Or at Reasonoids

  • Bubba Jones||

    It would be a damn shame if that wood pile caught fire.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Sounds like the sort of problems that are solved by a positive and civil dialogue with one's neighbors. It's not always possible.

    It also depends on what you (and now referring to other posts) would consider "vermin". To some people it's just wildlife. Some rodents, birds, insects are a joy to have visit one's property - or, are some people here now defending the narc who ensured the state-enforced destruction of old Mrs. Gillespie's butterfly garden?

  • kevrob||

    Termite and deer ticks don't respect property lines.

    Now if Paul were a greenie with a compost pile, and a ghod, guns and guts SoCon who is in love with his riding mower lived next door, and was the one to exhibit Lawn Rage, most of the commentators in the non-libertarian media would switch positions.

  • lap83||

    what are the externalities of having Tony as your neighbor, I wonder

  • Tony||

    Gentrification!

  • Just Say'n||

    Pass. Yuppies are the worst.

    I'd have you as a neighbor, though, Tony. As long as you promised not to tackle me when I wasn't looking.

  • Tony||

    I never make the first move anymore what with #metoo.

  • Just Say'n||

    Well played

  • Ariki||

    THIS, obviously.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    NSFW by the way. At least where I work.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    All the old straw men strewn across his front yard.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Do I get the feeling Tony scowls at people he perceives to be driving too fast (20 in a 35), or too loud, or driving a pickup truck (racist!) or hanging a flag (racist!), or growing pumpkins (should be regulated so only big ag is doing it!), or mowing their own lawn?

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    I do get the feeling, whether or not it is accurate. Tony I apologise if you are in fact not just a judgmental, cynical statist bootlicker who blanket judges the rest of us to be rubes, idiots, and theocrats just because we don't fawn at the words of the NYT.

    Oh wait, I might be describing Arty, or OBL. Eh.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    The irony of dropping the hyper-accusational smite bomb on Tony is not lost on me, but I'm having fun (talking to myself)

  • Paloma||

    Having an HOA depresses home values. So do high property taxes. Both kind of like stealing.

  • DenverJ||

    No

  • Zeb||

    Increasing my home value is similarly stealing because it increases my property taxes. SO I think it's a wash. And I'm not close enough or visible enough to my neighbors for it to matter.

  • Muzzled Woodchipper||

    No one is guaranteed a particular property value, or steadily rising property values.

  • Tony||

    Non sequitur. Nobody's guaranteed to make a profit selling, let's say, pumpkins, but it would still be stealing if I plucked it out of your yard.

  • MarkLastname||

    That this is how leftists think of property rights is truly horrifying. But you can see how these people would want to hang people for buying too much gasoline or food: they're 'steaking' By driving up prices!

  • ||

    No one is guaranteed a particular property value

    Wait, so if your neighbors and the bank conspire to reduce your property value to zero, as a libertarian you're OK with that? Like, in your mind, communism is just a form of libertarianism where all the property values have been depressed to zero (or vice versa)? Zero is a free market value after all!

  • Zeb||

    That's a rather different situation from complaining that your neighbor isn't doing everything he could to make sure your property value is maintained.

    And I'm actually serious when I say that if my neighbor gets to complain that I lower his property value because mine isn't as aesthetically pleasing as it could be, then I get to complain that he raises my property taxes by improving his property and increasing my property value.

  • ||

    That's a rather different situation from complaining that your neighbor isn't doing everything he could to make sure your property value is maintained.

    I think the issue is that we're talking about (new and unneeded) policy prescriptions for what are ultimately civil issues.

  • MarkLastname||

    No. Stop eating lead paint chips.

  • DJF||

    Nobody is asking the real questions

    What are Rene Boucher ties to Putin?

    Is he a Putin agent?

    Was he planing an attack on Hillary?

  • Zeb||

    This guy gets it. Obviously Putin hates Rand Paul and wants him dead because he isn't cooperative enough with Trump.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    This is exactly how Seth Rich died.

  • Jerryskids||

    HOA's are the belief that homeowners in the association know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.

    If Rand wants to grow pumpkins, keep a brushpile on his property or mow his lawn before 9 on a Saturday, he shouldn't be living in the sort of place that has rules against that sort of thing because the sort of place that has those sort of rules attracts the sort of people who like living in those sort of places. Tight-assed miserable bastards looking for any excuse for petty vengeance on the neighbors for life's having stuck them with a fat shrewish ball-busting wife. But I'm pretty sure if you check with the HOA, there are rules for reporting violations of the HOA rules and tackling your neighbor hard enough to break his ribs is not part of it.

    Although this is the first I've heard the neighbor's named Rene Boucher - no wonder Rand doesn't want to talk about it. Bad enough if the neighbor was named Jennifer, but Rene? You got mugged by a French poodle, Rand!

  • Tony||

    ou got mugged by a French poodle, Rand!

    Perhaps it was simply attempting to mate with his hairdo.

  • Zeb||

    OK, I laughed.

  • KerryW||

    If Rand wants to grow pumpkins, keep a brushpile on his property or mow his lawn before 9 on a Saturday, he shouldn't be living in the sort of place that has rules against that sort of thing because the sort of place that has those sort of rules attracts the sort of people who like living in those sort of places.

    I've seen a lot of vague comments about Paul violating HOA rules, and a list of things he did (pumpkins, brush piles, etc.), but nowhere have someone actually said explicitly that those things were against the rules there. Maybe they were, but the reports have been rather cagey, and I wonder if any rules (as opposed to ribs) were actually broken.

    But I'm pretty sure if you check with the HOA, there are rules for reporting violations of the HOA rules and tackling your neighbor hard enough to break his ribs is not part of it.

    This.

  • MayneDeWayne||

    Rand Paul's violent neighbor motivated by anti-American guerilla warfare martyr sentimentality, and blames it on lawn care.
    Sound about right?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "During this process, Rand Paul stepped away from his lawnmower, gathered several branches from an adjacent pile of trash and placed them in the exact location where the last pile had been burned just one day prior," Baker said in the filing.

    Boucher trained his neighbor that this was the spot where you put your shit if you want it hauled away for you.

  • Agammamon||

    +1

  • ravenshrike||

    Or he kept yard waste separate from trash because the local garbage service collected them separately. We've got a service that once a month will take branches and stuff too big for the bin if you pile it up on the curb, and on another day take anything that's just too big for the trash bins.

  • Agammamon||

    Look, all Rand knows is if you put your yard waste in this spot it goes away. He doesn't know how it goes away and never felt the need to look into it. Maybe the city was taking it away. Maybe some hippies living in the woods were using the materials to make some sort of . . . hippy nest. Rand doesn't care, he's a 'live-and-let-live' kind of dude. How was he to know his neighbor was some sort of freak that liked to collect other people's yard waste. Not that he'd judge. Neighbor could have just asked and he'd let him have it. Live and let live, after all.

  • HGW xx/7||

    At long last, the much-promised and promoted left-libertarian alliance appears to be bearing fruit!

  • Tony||

    And it's a squash!

  • Agammamon||

    Ba-dum tish!

  • HGW xx/7||

    You know, Tony, don't ever change. I may disagree with you on a majority of things, but at least you have a sense of humor and you stand up for the first amendment. I don't say this often about those on the left, but I genuinely believe you are a riot at parties.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Yeah I laughed and feel bad for smiting Tony above. Actually no I don't, but I did laugh.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    In September 2017, Paul piled limbs and remnants from freshly-trimmed shrubs onto a spot on Paul's property but just off the property line with Boucher. This pile measured about five feet high and 10 feet long, according to Baker's filing.
    On Oct. 10, Boucher gathered up the pile of debris, placed it into portable dumpsters and had it hauled away.
    "Even though this debris was not on Dr. Boucher's property, he viewed it as unsightly – as it was placed directly in his line of sight from his patio and the back door of his house," the memorandum states.
    The brush pile was reconstructed on Oct. 13 or 14, and Boucher had the debris removed a few days later, only for a new pile to be made in the same spot on Oct. 20 or 21.
    "Dr. Boucher had discussed this situation with at least two members of the Rivergreen Homeowner's Association throughout this relevant time frame," Baker said in his filing.
    On Nov. 2, a day before the tackle, Boucher used gasoline to burn a pile of yard debris that had been constructed just off the property line with Paul.
    A fireball created from the burn caused Boucher to sustain second-degree burns on both of his arms as well as the left side of his neck and face, for which Boucher began seeking medical treatment Nov. 7.

    This guy thinks piles of plant debris on your property that he doe snot like means that he can come onto your property and remove the debris and/or burn it.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    He hopefully got the message that this type of busy-body trespassing is not to be tolerated and certainly not assaults.

    More than a few months in federal prison would probably get the point across. Nobody has mentioned if Rand Paul has sued the neighbor for injuries sustained.

  • Echospinner||

    No and he will not do a civil suit.

    Look up Dr. Boucher. Interesting guy. Anesthesiologist and pain management doc. Now retired he has no active license in Kentucky. He invented a belt or pad made with rice to relieve back pain and marketed it.

    Dr. Paul is also interesting. I think he keeps his medical license active and does a few things to keep that but is really a Republican libertarian-ish politician.

    Maybe the two of them because of medical background see the legal system as the briar patch. The last place you want to be.

  • RoyMo||

    Well maybe its because I am a westerner, but slash and brush piles are the a bit of a red flag to me since where I live they are a fire hazard and that is the sort of collective action problem that absolute libertarians are poorly suited to deal with. So this almost made me sympathetic to the assaulting neighbor, but then I learn about his firebuggery and dangerous incompetence, and my western soul quickly shuts that down.

  • Agammamon||

    Well, they're in Kentucky - its far wetter out there than out here.

    But even out here in southern Arizona, I can do burns on my own little chunk of land.

    Though, reading the descriptions, I don't see what this dude's problem was. A brush pile 5 ft high and 10 feet long? That doesn't sound particularly unsightly to me. If it was there for a month I might mosey on over and ask when the fuck Paul planned on hauling it away/burning it/whatever.

  • Bubba Jones||

    I am actually sympathetic to his complaint. Rand probably put the brush pile where *he* didn't have to look at it while drinking soy lattes on his porch.

    If it were near the property line, it was probably in an easement, but since it's not a permanent structure, it probably didn't violate any HOA rules.

    Sounds like Rand was being a dick. But not a set yourself on fire and then break his ribs level of dick. More like a toss a flaming bag of poop on his front doorstep level of dick.

  • ||

    If it were near the property line, it was probably in an easement, but since it's not a permanent structure, it probably didn't violate any HOA rules.

    Sounds like Rand was being a dick. But not a set yourself on fire and then break his ribs level of dick. More like a toss a flaming bag of poop on his front doorstep level of dick.

    At the very least, seems like you might start with a "Mind piling your shit somewhere else?" or "Sure is taking a long time to get rid of those ugly limbs!" or "Most people have the dumpster waiting rather than leave all the crummy trimmings in their yard." dick move first and ramp up from there.

  • DenverJ||

    My favorite is how he keeps hauling the piles away on his own dime, and Paul keeps replacing them. It's hilarious. Paul be like "thanks, Brush Faerie".

  • Bubba Jones||

    So... what was Rand planning to do with this brush pile? What's the point of trimming your trees if you are just going to leave a giant pile of debris on your lawn?

  • Brett Bellmore||

    For all we know, he was calling a yard service to remove the brush, and was unaware his neighbor was removing it before they could arrive.

  • ravenshrike||

    Neighbor claims anything that would lessen his crime.

    Reason - Totally plausible and nothing to see here.

  • Thor||

    I'll be disgusted if this does not result in a jail sentence. This man is a threat to the public at large. I don't give a shit what Rand thinks about it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I don't want to live in a world where you can no longer punch a nazi.

  • Eidde||

    I presume that it's in this defendant's interest to show that his motive was something other than targeting a U. S. Senator for his politics.

    I suppose it's like a hate crime law?

    The attack is the same whatever the motive, but it's in federal court because the victim was a member of Congress and Congress happened to pass a law against attacking its members, I imagine.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    "Rand Paul's Violent Neighbor Motivated by Brush Piles on Paul's Property"

    I don't see any particular reason to credit his claim of non-political motives. What was he going to do, confess himself into a federal terrorism charge?

    Just because he's unreasonably violent doesn't mean he's stupid, too.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    "Rand Paul's Violent Neighbor Motivated by Brush Piles on Paul's Property"

    I don't see any particular reason to credit his claim of non-political motives. What was he going to do, confess himself into a federal terrorism charge?

    Just because he's unreasonably violent doesn't mean he's stupid, too.

  • Echospinner||

    Couple years ago two of my neighbors were involved in a dispute. One had installed some motion detector lights which were annoying the other one. After some shouting one of them went and retrieved a shotgun. The second guy wisely retreated to his house. Cops came and no physical harm done. Nobody charged with anything legally.

    I have had disputes like that but will not bore you with details.

    This story is totally believable.

    Actually I like Rand Paul even more. He has handled this like a mensch.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah, that dude was totally reasonable and justified. Fucking dick.

  • Cyto||

    I am continually shocked at the level of projection and motivated reasoning that is taking place in this country.

    I don't know. Maybe it has always been like this. But it doesn't feel like it. Watch any progressive-friendly show and they'll smugly tell each other just how divisive and violent the right is. When Obama was running for President, they seriously talked about just how violent white conservatives are, and how they'd certainly be trying to assassinate him. With Trump running they talked about Nazis and white supremacists and jew-hating klansmen. As soon as Trump was elected, images of swastikas began appearing all over the news... more evidence of hate-filled Nazis everywhere. This, even though most turned out to be hoaxes or left-wing perpetrators.

    Yet what did we see? Multiple violent attacks by leftists with political agendas.

    When Obama took office, the operative phrase was "elections have consequences". They refused to work with Republicans. They didn't need them.

    But the mantra has been "Republicans are divisive". Watch any progressive-friendly show and they'll happily tell you that the tone in Washington has been poisoned by divisive Republicans and their nasty, hate-filled rhetoric.

    Not that there aren't nasty, partisan republicans. They are plentiful.

  • Cyto||

    But the level of projection on the left is truly stunning. They are so deeply inured with their partisan belief system that they regularly proclaim their own violent actors as right wingers. Jarred Loughner springs to mind. Ask 100 democrats who was behind the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and I doubt you'd find more than a dozen who told you that it was a left wing democrat who was obsessed with her. I'd also wager you'd find twice that many who remember that it was Sara Palin who was responsible.

    Or they spring to label killers like Omar Mateen as right-wing gay-bashers instead of a jihadist who just wanted to kill a bunch of Americans. Remember how he was a self-hating closeted gay dude? They are still so married to that narrative that the Wikipedia page about that shooting prominently features that narrative, while only later mentioning that the FBI doesn't believe that anti-gay sentiment played a role at all, and he was just a straight-up jihadist.

    Every news story that breaks runs the risk of releasing an avalanche of false reports spinning things with a partisan angle. We've gotten so meta with our partisan bashing that we write entire articles about what someone says in a tweet - and then take it wildly out of context and use that as further evidence that everyone on that side of the isle is a raving lunatic.

    It is amazing just how easily manipulated people have proven to be.

  • Tony||

    Don't forget to mention the scourge of identity politics.

  • Cyto||

    I suppose that is the root of the whole thing.

    We must have a wiring in our brain that defends the tribe. So when the tribe we belong to is threatened, we automatically believe our tribe is the victim and we are the righteous. Our brains will go to any length to ensure that this is the outcome... because only by pulling the tribe together can we prevail against outside threats.

    That explanation is not exactly comforting. Nor is the knowledge that there are plenty of folks who seems to have fairly intimate knowledge of this phenomenon and are perfectly willing to make use of it for their own purposes.

  • Cyto||

    And into the teeth of all of this comes Trump. As near as I can tell, he never had much of anything to say on most topics. Just "it'll be great, I promise!"

    But he didn't back down. Even when he was called out for being completely wrong. Or utterly uninformed. Or wildly inappropriate. He just stuck it in their eye.

    And amazingly, that's all a huge chunk of the voting public needed to hear. After all of the BS, projection, political correctness, naked spin, collusion among the press and outright lies... just having someone who stood up straight and had unwavering confidence in himself was persuasive. Even if he had literally not one more thing going for him... that was enough.

    I suppose it shouldn't surprise me any more. After reading Podesta's emails that let us know that the DNC, the major news media and the Clinton campaign were all conspiring together to not only help Clinton win, but to even rig the Democrat primary.. and not a single person seems to remember that any of this happened or is the slightest bit concerned. You'd think that this would be enough to make me completely jaded.

    And yet my reaction is still a stunned silence, every single time. People are really, really scary in how easily they believe the unbelievable - if it fits their narrative.

  • Cyto||

    Right now in India they are suffering a rash of violent attacks in rural areas against "outsiders". It seems that people have been spreading rumors about outsiders snatching kids. So mobs attacked and murdered people who are just passing through.

    I'd like to think that we are beyond this sort of primitive thinking here in the US. But we are all people. And people are scary-stupid in groups. When group-think kicks in, people seem to believe just about anything that the group expects them to believe.

    When I was a kid hearing about all-white southern juries acquitting accused lynchers, I assumed that the people on the jury were giving a wink to the defense table and voting "not guilty" when they knew full well that he was guilty. Then I saw the OJ Simpson trial, and I learned that people will actually believe it - at least at the time. Somehow this is much more terrifying. The notion that people would "take care of their own" and set a killer free with full knowledge of what they are doing is pretty awful. But not even knowing that they are doing that.... that they would actually believe something so unbelievable.... That is really shake-your-world scary.

    And now we are surrounded by it... all the time. Just turn on Fox. Or CNN. Or MSNBC. etc. You'll see a bunch of really, really smart people who are really well educated and really informed. And you'll see them completely believe their own bullshit.

    That is scary enough to Godwin the thread.

  • Paloma||

    If it fits their narrative and makes them feel better about themselves.

  • MikeP2||

    Is boucher set fire to a brushpile on rands property, how is it possible that there were no words exchanged, or a longstanding dispute???

    The properties are not that big....arson would get noticed.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    We have no idea what size the brush pile was at the time Boucher torched it. Just that he says he tried it with gasoline and the resulting fireball burned him.

    Might have been a no consequence fire aside from that.

    At this point I wouldn't really believe anything Boucher says without independent confirmation: The only thing we really know for sure about him is that he's the kind of guy who'd tackle an elderly neighbor from behind without warning, and put them in the hospital. While that doesn't logically prove he's a liar, too, it's not exactly a glowing character reference.

  • Will Nonya||

    Isn't the real problem is that Paul isn't elite enough to have someone else mowing his lawn?

    If he were a real politician wouldn't he have 6 illegals doing this work in exchange for not having their employers business raided by ICE?

    Isn't it likely that this sort of snub to the staus quo is more likely to have trigger this attack than this long standing, very public dispute over leaves?

  • Butler T. Reynolds||

    NIMBYs aren't concerned about "my back yard". It's always about other people's back yards.

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