Free Minds & Free Markets

Democrats Should Trade Legalization of Immigrants for a Wall That'll Never be Built

Denying Trump a symbolic victory isn't a good reason to play with the lives of Dreamers.

President Trump needs a face-saving way to call off his government shutdown. No matter how much he tries to blame the Ice ArrestLucy Nicholson Reuters via Newscomsituation on the Democrats, he went on live TV and said he would be "proud" to own the shutdown, and there is simply no spinning that away. That's why the incoming White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney is now desperately tying to find a way out, even signaling that Trump will accept an unstated amount less than $5 billion for his wall.

Democrats should acquiesce on one condition: That Trump legalize all the DREAMers (people who were brought to this country without proper authorization as children) whom he jeopardized when he scrapped the Obama-era DACA program and all those whom he kicked off their "temporary protected status."

This would no doubt be hardball. But given that Democrats are poised to take control of the House next year, they have a far stronger political hand than during the January shutdown when they were forced to back down because Republicans controlled all the branches of government.

The wall is, of course, dumb. It will waste taxpayer money while accomplishing diddly in terms of national security. Drug smugglers will find ways to breach it given the enormous profits at stake. And it will do nothing to keep out visa overstays, half of the unauthorized population. It will also simply never be completed because $5 billion is less than a quarter of what would be required to cover the entire 2,000-mile-plus Southern border and what Trump — the "great negotiator" — walked away from during the last shutdown.

But how much harm would a partially-built wall really do? Funding it would not even qualify as a drop in a $4 trillion budget. Meanwhile the potential upside of a deal, if Democrats are effective, is huge.

The mystery is why they haven't already put a wall-for-DREAMer deal on the table. It's not like they have any major moral qualms about the wall. After all, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer along with 23 other Democratic senators voted "yay" for the 2006 Secure Fence Act that put up seed money for the first installment of the wall.

Democrats claim that Trump has already ruled out legalizing DREAMers so there is no point asking for such a deal. But they have to know his posture is just a negotiating tactic. Trump owns the shutdown and if he walks away he'll look even worse, not just with Hispanics but the vast majority of Americans who want the DREAMers legalized.

The more plausible explanation is that now that courts have barred the administration from scrapping DACA and TPS, Democrats no longer fear that mass deportations of DREAMers are imminent. Hence, they'd rather not fight for full legalization if that means denying Trump a symbolic victory on the wall. Plus they want to keep the issue alive for the 2020 election to encourage Hispanics to turn out to vote.

That is not just cynical, but a massive miscalculation.

The administration's efforts to scrap DACA and scale back TPS are on sound legal footing. (TPS holders, remember, are folks fleeing natural disasters or turmoil who have been given permission to live in the country on a renewable basis till things stabilize in their native countries. But Trump cut six countries including El Salvador, Haiti, and Nicaragua from the program, setting up about 98 percent of TPS recipients for deportation if they didn't voluntarily leave by the end of this year.) Even though liberal lower courts have ruled against the administration, the conservative Supreme Court isn't likely to go along.

The Immigration and Nationality Act hands the president vast prosecutorial discretion to set immigration enforcement priorities as he sees fit. That's why former President Barack Obama was perfectly within his legal rights to implement DACA and defer the deportation of DREAMers. But, by the same token, Trump can reset these priorities and scrap the program.

The TPS program, likewise, is up to the president's discretion. As its name suggests, it only lets affected immigrants temporarily stay in the country and it's up to the executive to decide when their time is up. Just because previous presidents have let these migrants stay for decades does not mean that Trump is legally required to do so.

Should the Supreme Court rule for the administration, there would be literally no avenues left to prevent this administration from conducting mass deportations of people who have built lives in America. Furthermore, having missed their big opportunity to fight for DREAMers' permanent status, Democrats will be in no position to make the moral case to let them stay.

The political upshot of this will be that while the deportations will energize the president's base, it will demoralize the Democratic base already sour from all the deportations that President Obama conducted.

It would be smart politics — and good principle — for the Democrats to use Trump's desire for the wall to drive a hard bargain and force him to back off his assaults on DREAMers and TPS holders.

The government will finally reopen. The question only is if Democrats will squander the leverage that Trump's shutdown gambit has handed them or use it to do some good.

This column originally appeared in The Week

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  • Ken Shultz||

    Trump has little or nothing to lose for keeping a campaign promise, and if Pelosi doesn't like eating crow, then maybe she shouldn't have climbed way out there on that limb.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    The worst possible thing Trump can do is stop fighting for the wall.

  • Tony||

    Why? Because the morons who are obsessed with the wall will dump him for someone else? After everything they've put up with until now?

  • TuIpa||

    Because it will make you happy. And you are a detestable human being who doesn't deserve even a sliver of happiness.

  • Tony||

    You weren't given many toys as a child, were you?

  • TuIpa||

    Oh I was just speculating on his motives, I personally find you delightful.

  • Fancylad||

    This from a guy who goes apoplectic over Christmas.

  • Tony||

    I liked it when all I had to do was get toys.

  • TuIpa||

    That would certainly be better than the 5 dollars for a handy you get now.

  • Ecoli||

    "I liked it when all I had to do was get toys."

    What an utterly perfect summation of the progressive left!

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    "I liked it when all I had to do was get toys.".........

    .............Is something a narcissistic sociopath says

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    The worst possible thing Trump can do is stop fighting for the wall.

    That seems to be the official position of Libertarians For Squandering Billions Of Taxpayer Dollars On A Pointless Wall To Appease Authoritarian Bigots.

  • TuIpa||

    No one cares what you think and you know it which is why you try so hard.

  • Earth Skeptic||


    Les-bot DOA pew-tab?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I hadn't considered that. Could Arty really be a bitter leftist dyke?

  • TuIpa||

    So in that other other other other other other thread I made the judgementless observation that sparky seems to constantly be scolding people, and the not very bright Fagamammon proved he doesn't know the difference between scolding someone and observing thwir behavior.

    It was deeply embarassing for both the scold, sparky, and the idiot, fagamammon.

  • SQRLSY One||

    Intruder alert!!! Intruder alert!!! Fire red klaxons right and blue photon cannons left!

    A model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg from the future has arrived HERE, to exterminate ALL rational discourse, with grade-school insults!!! Batten the hatches, and clutch DESPERATELY, to the hope that the model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg will find some grade-school site to retreat to, and leave the rest of us the Hell alone, to have adult conversations!

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    This site has adult conversations?

    Who knew?

  • TuIpa||

    I am always fascinated by people like him who are obviously in dubious contact with their faculties. They make the choice to engage someone and then, they insist it is the person who they engaged that is at fault.

    No one is making anyone read anything here. It's like he is crazy AND has no personal agency.

  • TuIpa||

    "leave the rest of us the Hell alone, to have adult conversations!"

    "Intruder alert!!! Intruder alert!!! Fire red klaxons right and blue photon cannons left!"

  • SQRLSY One||

    Nice parroting, plus nothing, pirate! Arrgh, ye scurvy dawgs, avast!

    Did you notice at that ALL of the model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg mindless comments have been flushed down the memory hole, as well they should be? Even a mindless computer's database (at finds your comments to be soooo utterly mindless, that a mindless computer has flushed them down to a well-deserved fate!

    If that hurts Your Precious Baby Feelings, then I suggest you ask a VERY talented psychologist, like the highly respect Phillip Zimbardo, to give you some counseling. Good luck to even the best of the best, like Phillip Zimbardo, in tackling this probably-impossible mission...

  • TuIpa||

    "Intruder alert!!! Intruder alert!!! Fire red klaxons right and blue photon cannons left!"

  • TuIpa||

    "Did you notice at that ALL of the model 3,666 Tulpanator Robot Anthropoid Cyborg mindless comments have been flushed down the memory hole, as well they should be?"

    Nope, I would have to be a weirdly obsessed cyber stalker to even bother looking.

  • TuIpa||

    Wait, you look through TWO MONTH OLD THREADS because of ME!?!?!?

    Ahahahahah what the fuck is wrong with you!!!

    Holy Shit I literally own your soul!!!

  • TuIpa||


    Ahahhahaah how fucking pitiable!!!

  • SQRLSY One||

    Only evil people try to own other people's souls (or, get off on the illusion that they are doing so). I believe in freedom, in freeing people from evil people... Dictators and others who get off on "owning" people. If you won't wake up to your own evil, at least I can warn other people about you.

    Get thee behind us, ye Hihnister Satulpatanic Satanulpinipulator ye!

    Yer lies will not be believed here; we believe in REASON, not your obvious LIES, ye Evil One!

  • TuIpa||


    Ahahhahaah how fucking pitiable!!!

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    The only thing that might stop him is a nose flute...

  • SQRLSY One||

    My lung flute is bigger than your lung flute!!!

    Sad to say, lung flutes aren't worth a damn in the first place, certainly not for me...

  • TuIpa||

    So adult.

  • a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf||

    Lucky SEVEN coming up soon, and probably EIGHT right after.

    I've never seen Tulpa so agitated over such a flimsy figment of his imagination. I wonder if his parole is up at the end of the year.

  • TuIpa||

    You ability to cry about it iso vociferously is fascinating as well.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    But how much harm would a partially-built wall really do?

    There's still the issue of private property rights.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, Pelosi and Trump are just tying themselves up in knots over private property rights.

  • Ken Shultz||

    They can't sleep at night because they're worried sick over property rights.

  • JFree||

    No there isn't. Fact is those property rights in land originate from a govt grant - not some insane pseudo-Lockean labor theory of value.

    My great-great-grandaddy peed on that tree and in so doing fertilized it so it could grow better fruit. So I now own all the land within his pee markers and it is up to govt to provide - for no incremental cost to me and preferably at a discount cuz my family pee is so fertile it benefits others merely by trickling down my leg - the title claim, the inheritance transfer, the eviction of anyone else foreign or domestic, etc.

    Dumbest bunch of feudalist BS ever propounded by the propertarian contingent.

    For everyone who owns land at the boundary of US sovereignty, it is up to the US govt - and ONLY the US govt to decide whether they (the allodial owner of that land) will be coerced by a fee-simple landowner into continuing to provide all the services that the allodial owner provides to the fee-simple owner. If a landowner doesn't like that arrangement, the US govt can sell/transfer its allodium back to Mexico - and that landowner will now become a foreign landowner within Mexico trying to influence the Mexican court system in defending their fee-simple title claims. Good luck with that.

  • Wizard4169||

    Plus, the more we spend on Donny's Magic Wall, the more some will argue that we therefore we must spend even more to finish it. Never underestimate the power of the sunk cost fallacy.

  • Ecoli||

    We need a wall-right-of-way buyback program!

  • Tony||

    Get something real for real humans in exchange for a promise to stroke Trump's ego that can easily be cancelled once sane people occupy the white house... not the worst compromise I've ever heard of.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Not sure which same people you think are coming. It sure isn't your commie democrat friends. From that drooling crone Pelosi, to the psychopathic Hag, all the way down to the bat shit crazy stupid Occasional Cortex.

    Yeah, really same. Go drink your Drano Tony.

  • Tony||

    I'll give you this, you are unpleasant in so many ways.

  • TuIpa||

    So you're jealous.

  • Jerryskids||

    That sounds so reasonable, trading a wall for security. But since when have politicians ever done anything for other than political reasons? Both sides have painted themselves into corners they can't get out of without suffering political damage. It's funny, too, because the Dems have always been amoral, hard-headed realists willing to make a deal with the Devil if it furthers their long-term goals but their TDS base won't allow them to give an inch to Trump and Trump considers himself a master negotiator and dealmaker who obviously couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag.

  • Azathoth!!||


    It's not like he's a billionaire president married to a model who got elected with everyone from both parties and the media against him.

    I mean, THAT would take some serious persuasion.

    And we all know that Trump "couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag."

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Amd as a political neophyte too. Running against "the most qualified candidate in US history" no less!

  • Wizard4169||

    Which is probably what put him over the top: people voting against Clinton's arrogance, dishonesty and incompetence.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    The democrats could have backed Jim Webb in the primary. He's not awful. Not my guy, but I could live with him four years knowing he wouldn't wreck the country. Plus he isn't a criminal sociopath or a raving Marxist. I think he even has principles.

    The democrats acted like he was radioactive and wouldn't go near him. Typical.

  • Wizard4169||

    Trump is great at making deals. That's not the same as making good deals. Good, bad, who knows, who cares, by the time anybody figures out how good (or, usually, bad) his deals are, he's long since moved on to the next deal and left some other poor schmuck holding the bag. And we don't really have anything but his word to prove he's a billionaire. His finances are so opaque, no one else has a clue.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    Not that garbage again! Forbes is pretty sure he's a billionaire. And I don't think they're going on his unsupported word.

    I really do not understand this impulse to deny that he's a billionaire. It's like some people, disliking him on a personal or policy level, feel the irresistible urge to deny he's successful in any way whatsoever. Just because they don't like him, he's got to be ugly, bankrupt, stupid, and have smelly arm pits.

    No, sorry, however much it rankles you, he's a smart billionaire married to a super model who won the Presidency against the best efforts of two major parties and the news media to defeat him. That doesn't make him a moral icon, however you personally measure that, but it's still true.

  • JWatts||

    "Not that garbage again!"

    Ironically, it's much like Trump's birtherism. So, somewhat karmic that Trump would be the victim of the same conspiracy type theory and also doubly ironic, because people propounding the theory were likely to be pushing back against the birtherism conspiracy.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Of course Trump is a billionaire.

    "He owns a mansion and a yacht!"

  • retiredfire||

    Demoncraps are "realists"?
    This must be satire.

  • JesseAz||

    In 2013 Democrats voted for 600 miles of wall building in their amnesty bill. Trump is asking for 200 miles. We are still waiting for the Democrats to honor their 1986 agreement. Fuck Democrats and their lying bullshit.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    The only deal to be had with democrats is if they perform 100% first. If not they will go back on any deal they make. It is their way.

  • A Lady of Reason||

    Idk about that... Still brings in crime and 3rd world values!

  • IceTrey||

    The solution is to end drug prohibition and persuade their governments to give them their liberty and to make the dreamers US nationals so they can stay but not vote or hold office.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Good requirement for Dreamers. And (even more unlikely) would be a demonstration that the next wave of underage illegals will NOT get the same amnesty.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    The wall will curtail the numbers in that wave.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    In my experience, when the solution to YOUR problem requires somebody else to solve THEIR problems first, it's a non-starter. You're far better off solving your own problems with something YOU do, because... they might actually get solved.

  • IceTrey||

    Their problem is US drug prohibition and support for despotic regimes to help carry that out.

  • Echospinner||

    The dreamers for wall exchange has been on the table before.

    It is not on the table now.

    Dems will try and pass a stopgap bill and put it on Trump's desk.

    Next move.

  • Echospinner||

    This is a common tactic. Say we are negotiating a contract and there is a gap. We do not agree about something.

    Side B breaks off direct negotiation. Instead side B draws up a contract ready to sign and faxes it to your office at 4:30 pm on Friday.

    Anyone who has bought a car has seen the same tactic. The dealer brings out the manager who has made you wait, can I get you some water or coffee, with a deal ready to go. Just sign here and it is yours. There are some small concessions but do you want the car or not.

    Surely the master deal maker knows better than just ask for more and take less. Any three year old has mastered that skill.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Poor Shikha. Coming to the realization that Trump is even more powerful now that Democrats wont he House.

    He can refuse to do anything and blame the Democrats because their TDS wont allow them to work with Trump.

    He gets more popular every day by fighting the lefties assholes.

  • Echospinner||

    " "So I will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. I'm not going to blame you for it — the last time you shut it down, it didn't work. I will take the mantle of shutting it down. And I'm going to shut it down for border security."

    Donald Trump

    Kinda hard to walk away from that. If that is a negotiating tactic it is unusual to paint yourself into a corner and then claim something else. First rule: never burn bridges. Second rule: always give yourself a way out Third rule: shut your mouth. Let the other side make mistakes.

    Looks like his opposition has decided this hand is over. They will reshuffle the deck and put out new cards.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Your rules just are not the end-all to negotiation.

    Trump is rocking his political opponents.

  • Echospinner||

    No they are not even close to it.

    Then again I would not even attempt to sell myself as a genius. Let alone take responsibility for the welfare of the most powerful country in the world.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Echo, so what? Do you know who gives a shit about govt. shut downs? People who comment on websites like this, and the beltway crowd. None of whom have votes in play I. The next election.

    Do you know who doesn't give a shit, or is even aware of govt. shutdowns? EVERYONE ELSE.

    No one changes their vote at election time because of some govt. shutdown a year or two earlier.

  • Wizard4169||

    More popular? Only with his Banana Republican base, since they're the only ones dreaming of Donny's Magic Wall. As for the Dems, their base certainly isn't going to punish them for sticking a finger in Trump's eye.

  • JWatts||

    "More popular? Only with his Banana Republican base,"

    Trump's popularity has been steady or climbing with independents over the past year. At the start of last year it was 32% at the end of the year it was 39%.


  • retiredfire||

    Hey, you dumb see-you-next-Tuesday, the goal is to discourage further illegals coming here, not encourage them.
    Why would anyone, except someone as dumb as you, make a deal that included the single most sure-fire way to get more illegals to flood the nation - an amnesty?
    If you think that Trump will lose his base if he capitulates on the wall, but are too dumb to realize he will lose it, even faster, if he gives out an amnesty, it is a wonder you are capable of drawing your next breath.
    I hope Trump realizes it too or he will be one-and-done Trump.

  • tinwhistler||

    Deport them all and let God sort them out.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Let the Saint of drug dealing sort them out at least.

  • Benitacanova||

    Shiksa. Shiksa Shiksa Shiksa. What are we going to do with you.

  • CLM1227||

    Isn't this the same deal made in the 80s? While the Rs are absolutely stupid, the voters absolutely would not let this go without repercussion a second time.

    While a wall might be unpopular with the majority of voters, controlling immigration and border security is popular with a majority of voters. Amnesty is not popular, even among 1st gen hispanic (lega) immigrants.

  • Richard Stallman||

    An incomplete border wall _can_ do harm -- to local ecosystems such
    such as that in the National Butterfly Sanctuary. environment/2018/dec/13/ butterfly-sanctuary-border-wall-mission-texas

    The deal proposed here might make sense if it can prevent the next year's
    wall construction from affecting those parts of the border.

  • JCCC1||

    "The mystery is why they haven't already put a wall-for-DREAMer deal on the table. It's not like they have any major moral qualms about the wall. After all, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer along with 23 other Democratic senators voted "yay" for the 2006 Secure Fence Act that put up seed money for the first installment of the wall."

    It's not really that much of a mystery. While the sane Democrats would be fine with it, there are an emtire generation of true blue Progressives out there that DO have qualms about it.

    In fact, I think there's a case to be made that the Dems' hands are more tied than Trump's is. Trump can explain away a negotiation and just BS his way through, but the left flank won't accede to him getting wall funding at all.

  • josh||

    "It's not really that much of a mystery. While the sane Democrats would be fine with it, there are an emtire generation of true blue Progressives out there that DO have qualms about it.

    In fact, I think there's a case to be made that the Dems' hands are more tied than Trump's is. Trump can explain away a negotiation and just BS his way through, but the left flank won't accede to him getting wall funding at all."

    I know I want Trump to "lose the shutdown", but I'm not sure the Dems deserve to win if they're not a little more imaginative. I tend to think this article has the right idea, but your points are valid, so we're basically just waiting this all out until Trump gets bored or enough Republicans start getting antsy.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    You want Trump to lose? So you hate America, got it.

  • ranrod||

    'Secure Our Border First Act' Deception | Frontpage Mag
    If purportedly securing our southern border is "first" the obvious question is: "What is second?"
    "Second" this has nothing to do with enforcement but rather with providing unknown millions of illegal aliens with lawful status. As I have noted in many of my articles, this is a bad idea for a long list of reasons, but let's begin with the fact that there is no way to interview these foreign nationals in person. There is no way to conduct a sufficient number of field investigations that fraud would be deterred.
    The 9/11 Commission identified immigration fraud as the key entry and embedding tactic of terrorists, and not just in the case of the 19 hijackers who so savagely attacked the United States on September 11, 2001, but in the case of other terrorists that the 9/11 report scrutinized.
    Let us consider just some of the many ways that illegal aliens and potential criminals and terrorists can gain entry into our country:
    1. Running the Mexican border.
    2. Running the Canadian border
    3. Stowing away on a ship.
    4. Entering the United States through a port of entry under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program. (This enables aliens from 38 countries to enter our country without first applying for and obtaining a nonimmigrant visa.)

  • ranrod||

    This is beyond myopic and foolish -- it is a betrayal of America and Americans.
    Time and again the issue of compassion has been raised by the open borders immigration anarchists. They claim that America must be compassionate to millions of illegal aliens who violated our nation's borders and immigration laws.
    The point is that you cannot identify the criminals and terrorists without a score card and, to put it succinctly, "Undocumented Aliens" have no scorecards.
    As for the money earned by foreign workers, much of it is sent home. Collectively the remittances (money wired home) last year by foreign workers, both legally working and illegally working in the United States, amounted to more than $125 billion. This is a massive amount of money that was not earned by American workers or by lawful immigrant workers. This is money that was not spent in the United States and money that was not invested in the United States.
    Politicians promise the folks they hope to persuade to vote for them that they will help create jobs, while ignoring the obvious -- enforcement of our immigration laws could liberate jobs. This is a fact that is never discussed by political "conservatives" or "liberals," for that matter.

  • ranrod||

    Conservatives may frequently make the claim that the government does not create jobs, but they ignored that effective enforcement of our immigration laws could remove illegal aliens from the work force so that American workers could get back to work.

    Illegal alien numbers - Youve been lied to for decades!
    ALL media sources repeat the same old media/political lie of only 11-12 illegal aliens in the USA!! Whenever these politicians and their media regurgitate these numbers you will know them for their cover up!!
    2008 - Univision(Spanish) boasted 50 million
    2010 - Retired INS M. Cutler writes of 40-50 million would receive amnesty if granted..
    2012 - Debbie Schlussel writes of 40 million..
    CAPS Study 2007 reports of up to 38 million..
    2016 - Coulter writes of 60 million invaders already here

  • Tionico||

    We a;ready HAVE a proceedure for IMMIGRANTS to be here legally. Those who want to live here but ar citizens of somewhere else CAN do that.

    the definition if IMMIGRANT is someone who works through the established proceedures to come here in full compliance with our laws.

    Anyone who refuses/fails to go through that process is NOT an "immigrant" but an invader.

    Get over it.

    The ROOT issue is one you refuse to acknowledge, because of your bias going in. That issue is that there MUST be a clear line defining what dirt is inside, and what dirt is outside, the United States of America. Once that clear line is established (it already is, its called our "border" or "boundary". ) the next necessary thing is to seal that line against those who do not presently belong INSIDE of that line.

    Doubt me? Just try and cross our northern boundary with Canada. If you present yourself for entry, they will confront you, demand government issued identification proving who you are and where your legal residence is. If you are from certain nations, they will turn you right round and tell you to go away and don't try to come back. They will ask you questions about where you work, your income, marital status, legal status (criminal past, under indictment, etc). They will ask you how much money you have with you, whether the car you are driving is yours, and more.

  • Tionico||

    How do I know this? I used to cross that boundary on a regular basis, and so have been asked ALL of that and more, going either way. ,Even on a bicycle they asked me those sorts of things. Once I established my US citizenship, they could not refuse me entry into the US. My then residency in Canada, legally established, often required my showing proof of that status. I did not mind. I understood the need for both governments to assure I was not a threat or burden as I passed.

    WHY do you make our current administration out to be some sort of perverted illegal cabal for continuing to do this? You make no sense. They are all after preserving the integrity and security of this nation. SOMEONE needs to.

  • Tionico||

    I have also travelled extensively in Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, arriving by air or car in all three. Crossing into Mexico took well above an hour, and they DEMANDED I prove the car I was driving had THEIR worthless insurance covering it. Had to prove ownership, they had to inspect the car, verify all the serial numbers matched the documents, and Guatemala even played a charade of "disinfecting" the car by squirting some poison on the tyres......... all four of them.... but ONLY on the outside face of the tyre, not the inside, which, if there HAD been any bugs present would have been on that side as well..... and of course I had to pay a fee for the "service". My personal belongings were regularly searched as I proceeded through Mexico, I had to identify myself and prove ownership of the car at least a dozen times as I travelled.
    Entering Guatemala took over three hours. Several "fees for service" were imposed for various stages of the process. My own documentation was examined multiple times.

    My question to you is, if THIS is standard treatment for rich Yanquis entering those countries, WHY do you rail against the restrictions and cautions imposed by the US government, who are tasked with maintaining the security of this nation?

  • Gary in Texas||

    If leftists want to abolish immigration laws and allow unlimited immigration from what used to be called third world countries, they should say so. If they want citizenship for all illegal aliens now in the country in order to help the Democratic Party, they should say so. If their opponents think they have reasons American society cannot stand an unlimited influx, they should say so. If they are afraid of the country being handed over lock, stock, and barrel to the Democrats because of the votes of former illegals, they should say so. Both sides should lay their cards on the table and cut back on the emotionalism whether over the plight of illegals at the border or of American victims of crimes committed by illegals in this country. Resorting to maudlin acts to persuade fools may work, but it is neither good for the country nor a reasonable way to debate. I wish we were a free enough country to have open borders as was the case in much of the 19th Century. However we are not, and I generally accept the ideas that one cannot have unlimited immigration to a welfare state and that millions of new voting Democrats would be likely to elect governments even worse than the ones we now enjoy. So I reluctantly support "border security" while sympathizing with people who want a chance to come here and have better lives.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Leftists/Democrats are in favor of anything that destroys America and western civilization. So if you want to stand starving in bread lines and have Antifa Maoists machine gunning people in the streets, by all means, vote Democrat.


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