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Women

How Do We Feel About Women's Work?

Plus: Rampant illiteracy, teen-suicide rates and screens, and more...

Liz Wolfe | 7.10.2026 9:33 AM

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Stay-at-home moms | Adani Samat/titovailona/Envato
(Adani Samat/titovailona/Envato)

Stay-at-home moms: Reader, let me take your hand and guide you to a realm of the internet that I inhabit, which you probably don't even know exists. Welcome to Mom Twitter, where the discourse vacillates between dumb and enlightening. Today's topic? What exactly the term "stay-at-home mom" means, and whether "work"—presumably meaning formal participation in the labor force—disqualifies you.

moms on TikTok that are like "SAHMs what are you doing to make income from home 🥺 I need to make $200 a week" and the comments are all giving them suggestions…..idk how to tell them that they aren't SAHMs. they are working.

— bunnie (@CuriousBunnie12) July 7, 2026

An online creator I follow was like "yeah I'm a SAHM but I make an income from here and it's more than my husband's so it's a bit different". That's called work from home, not stay at home. You're the main breadwinner. You're self-employed. Why cling to the SAHM label so much? https://t.co/LhcmNguuJH

— pasiem kone na betóne (@Sabrina45X) July 7, 2026

"Stay-at-home mom" means "primary caregiver for her own children." It does not mean "mom who doesn't work at all" (in fact, the primary caregiverness of it all sure is a whole lot of work!) just as it does not generally mean literally "stays at home all day." https://t.co/3LhuOawD9x

— Liz Wolfe (@LizWolfeReason) July 9, 2026

Perhaps you're thinking, Why should I, a reader of Roundup, care about any of this at all? There are a few reasons. One, at some point in the past, you probably benefited from the work of a stay-at-home mom or homemaker. A wife who fielded the domestic work and raised the kids, or maybe a mom who made sure your clothes were neatly pressed and that dinner was on the table by 5 p.m. each night, or maybe even a very 1970s mom who made you a latchkey kid, throwing some benign neglect your way that ended up helping you develop independence (and keeping the bills paid). Maybe the homemaker was you.

The Reason Roundup Newsletter by Liz Wolfe Liz and Reason help you make sense of the day's news every morning.

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Two, as an economic phenomenon, the fact that there are plenty of syncretic options available to women—serving as primary caregiver for the kids and doing some laptop-job work part-time on the side, or selling stuff on Etsy, or watching a neighbor's kids in addition to her own—is an underdiscussed component of our labor market that we still don't really know how to characterize (and that the Social Security Administration sure as hell doesn't know what to do about). It's also the type of person that socialists like New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani pretend doesn't exist: Universal childcare solves problems (at a very high cost) for one segment of the working-parent population, but what about the many industrious mothers who actually want to have their children at home with them? Or those who also want to pursue other types of work simultaneously? (Mamdani could serve this population by loosening restrictions on home daycares, homeschooling co-ops, and the like, but he doesn't seem to want to serve this constituency.)

Part of the reason policymakers don't seem to know what to do is because this type of person has long existed but is often denigrated. "No woman gets an orgasm from shining the kitchen floor," wrote Betty Friedan in The Feminine Mystique (1963), proving she's never met a true homemaker. Friedan continued:

"Millions of women lived their lives in the image of those pretty pictures of the American suburban housewife, kissing their husbands goodbye in front of the picture window, depositing their stationwagonsful of children at school, and smiling as they ran the new electric waxer over the spotless kitchen floor. They baked their own bread, sewed their own and their children's clothes, kept their new washing machines and dryers running all day. They changed the sheets on the beds twice a week instead of once, took the rug-hooking class in adult education, and pitied their poor frustrated mothers, who had dreamed of having a career. Their only dream was to be perfect wives and mothers; their highest ambition to have five children and a beautiful house, their only fight to get and keep their husbands. They had no thought for the unfeminine problems of the world outside the home; they wanted the men to make the major decisions."

It's possible the women Friedan was writing about truly had "no thought for the unfeminine problems of the world outside the home," but I doubt it. She's portraying women as vapid and unconcerned, not legitimate contributors to the household that powers, and could even be considered part of, the economy. Friedan goes on to describe, at length, "the problem that has no name"—comparing the home to a "comfortable concentration camp." What she describes sounds an awful lot like depression, which she attributes to the domestic realm these women have been seemingly forced to inhabit. "We can no longer ignore that voice within women that says: 'I want something more than my husband and my children and my home,'" Friedan writes. And indeed, we didn't. Women's liberation followed, along with the flourishing of choice that allowed many women who would have otherwise succumbed to a lifetime of ennui the option to lead meaningful, important careers. But somewhere along the way, Friedanism got mighty powerful, such that smart, educated women began to believe that domestic life shouldn't even be on the menu of options before them.

"The cultural messaging seemed to me that I would waste my potential by not doing something professionally," says my friend Meredith Thornburgh, mother of two and a historian of the domestic economy who studies "technological change in the modern home," as well as our "thinking about the economy and what counts as work."

Many such cases.

Now, our thinking about domestic work frequently falls into meme form: Should girls grow up to become girlbosses or tradwives? (Ill-defined terms that don't encompass the majority.) The truth is less memed, less likely to go viral, and more serious: many women desire careers they can ratchet up and down to accommodate the years of childrearing; work that allows for time spent with children and time spent away (mentally away, if not physically away); to be meaningful contributors to their household budgets either by removing childcare as a line-item or by adding income, or possibly both. The more we embrace these realities, the better we'll be able to meet the economic moment and take seriously the cultural moment. (After all, The Two-Income Trap was kind of right, even if Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) is smoking crack when it comes to all the solutions.)


Scenes from New York: "The New York attorney general on Thursday sued several chemical and manufacturing giants, including 3M and DuPont, accusing them of continuing to expose consumers to products containing chemicals linked to health problems and environmental damage, long after the companies knew of their danger," reports The New York Times.


QUICK HITS

  • Inside the fight between evolutionary psychologist Peter Gray and Jonathan Haidt over whether phones and social media are to blame for the adolescent mental health crisis. One thing I'm wondering about: Teen-suicide rates fell by 40 percent from 1990 to 2010—a time when teens were undoubtedly using the internet. Gray seems to believe this is helpful for his hypothesis. But isn't this exactly like other forms of screen time discourse, where the specific mode and medium matter an awful lot? Internet users growing up during that time were using desktop computers and laptops to browse message boards and Wikipedia, use AOL instant messenger and Tumblr, and listen to Napster and Spotify and YouTube. But that was undoubtedly before smartphones had become pervasive; before influencers had optimized every inch of YouTube to serve their ends; before short-term video was king; before infinite-scroll social media ruled the day. Is it possible we're just talking about two very different internets? I think about this a lot in the realm of 3-year-olds: watching Fiddler on the Roof with my son in the family room on a rainy day is undoubtedly a very different experience than giving him Cocomelon heroin on a personal iPad when we're out at dinner—not just in terms of the inherent qualities of the media (rate at which screen changes; complexity of plot and characters) but also in terms of what the child ends up missing out on. The same could be true about the internet and could explain some of the Gray-Haidt disagreement.
  • Very true:

People in NYC used to say that Trump was "a poor person's idea of a rich person"--which was supposed to be a dunk and actually described his political appeal. Dems trying to tap that same populist energy instead selected a rich person's idea of a poor person. https://t.co/ihlW9oAiyh

— Megan McArdle (@asymmetricinfo) July 8, 2026

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NEXT: Graham Platner Dropped Out, but His Shadow Lingers Over Democrats and U.S. Politics

Liz Wolfe is an associate editor at Reason.

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  1. MollyGodiva   2 months ago

    Traditional gender roles are a relic of the past and need to be left in the past. There should not be woman-work and man-work, just work.

    1. Ajsloss   2 months ago

      And all of it should be government work. Right, Tony?

      1. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 months ago

        And we should all dress the same.

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   2 months ago

      The work will make them free

      1. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

        Rev posts this in the conviction (wrong conviction) that everybody on here is stupid. He's on his pro-Nazi thing and laughing that you don't get it. but many of us did

        "Arbeit macht frei" is a German phrase meaning "Work makes [one] free". The Nazis placed this slogan over the entry gates of many concentration camps

        The rev can get back to his gay lover and have a good laugh

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          "laughing that you don't get it. but many of us did"

          Ummm........

          1. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

            Yeah, woosh.

          2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

            See, even when you deny you show you are lying.

        2. Marshal   2 months ago

          SDF

        3. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

          Are you telegraphing your desire to fill that role for him? Or perhaps you prefer he use his roll to fill you?

      2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

        Nazi stuff or cut-and-paste , both likely with you

    3. TJJ2000   2 months ago

      You're Right.
      Work is not complaining like a women?
      Work requires paying husbands alimony?
      Work requires being sent out to give their lives defending the nation?
      Work requires taking responsibility for business deals signed onto like coverture.

      It's time to end the 'Traditional' special-me Woman and start treating them like Men.

    4. Zeb   2 months ago

      There are a few differences between men and women that are relevant to what kind of work each will tend to favor. And women are equipped in certain ways that make them uniquely well suited for caring for young children. Traditional women's work, particularly in child care and other domestic work, is really important and crucial to our existence. It's really disgusting that so many denigrate it as somehow less important or worthy of respect. No, it doesn't pay a lot, but it enables everything else productive that happens in the world and it's rightly a source of pride for those who take it on.

      1. Nelson   2 months ago

        “ And women are equipped in certain ways that make them uniquely well suited for caring for young children.”

        I have to push back on this. What is it (other than conservative tradition) that makes women “well suited” for childcare? Since milk can be easily pumped and stored (or parents can choose to use formula, although I’m not sure where the pendulum’s is on that particular endless debate), the woman isn’t even necessary for breast feeding.

        So what does a woman bring to childcare that a man can’t?

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          More stupidity.

        2. Zeb   2 months ago

          Tradition ("conservative tradition" is kind of redundant here) doesn't exist for no reason. It's not just an accident of history that women are traditionally primary caregivers. In addition to being the primary food source for infants, women also have evolved psychologically since before humans were humans to be mothers. I'm not saying all traditions are worth keeping, but a lot of them are there for good reasons. People should do what they think best for their own situations, but it's silly to pretend that there aren't real differences that matter between men and women both physically and psychologically.

          1. Zeb   2 months ago

            I'll also add that I never said it wasn't possible to raise a child without a mother providing primary care. But I wouldn't think it should be too controversial to say that it is better, in general, for children when their own parents take care of them instead of hiring others to do it for them. And if for a particular couple, it makes more sense for the father to fill that role, that's fine too. But that's a less common situation.

            1. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 months ago

              It's interesting that more and more commercials show just this, the man filling that role, while the women are shown as the breadwinner or not there at all. This in in targeted campaigns, a lot of home decorator and reno commercials, along with household products such as laundry detergent.
              It will be interesting to see if society evolves in this direction and men become comfortable staying at home. It is certainly easier. I think the Trad Wife movement is already a response to this. And, as we've seen so often, once women see that men have it differently than they do, and men seem to like it, women will not be happy there either.

              1. Zeb   2 months ago

                I'd love to be the one in charge of and responsible for domestic affairs and have a woman who brings home the money. But I don't think that's in the cards for me.

              2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

                IF you are married and have a child you are already trad wife! We are just playing with words now. You didn't kill the child in the womb so presumably you intend to raise the child , in a home, in a family, with the child's best interests first. That can only mean Trad Wife, ask any child.

      2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

        I don’t know that “so many people denigrate it” as it’s just something chicks use to project a persecution complex.

        Chicks do that, ya know.

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          That's most of what I'm thinking of here. All the feminists who make it out as if domestic work and childcare is not worth as much as whatever employment people are supposed to aspire to. Men who take on that role also tend to get a lot of shit, perhaps from a slightly different direction.

    5. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      MG should fuck off and die.

    6. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

      Everyone should just live how they want and shut the fuck up about everyone else.

      1. Agammamon   2 months ago

        No. That simply does not work. We have seen what happens when you let other people just live like they want - there are a ton of people that just want to hurt you.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          The fact that someone, living their own life without outside imposition of values or influence, might for some unknown reason suddenly become a danger to others doesn’t justify infringing on their liberty.

          What is so potentially dangerous to you about others living their own beliefs? Which beliefs do you feel you need to stamp out to make the world your safe space?

          1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

            Islam.

          2. NealAppeal   2 months ago

            Bake the Cake! signed the Alphabet people

      2. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

        Everyone should shut up but Brix that is, the Nazi self-indulgent voice of self-haters. 🙂

        I and many others ask ourselves : When someone posts such a self-condeming piece of juvenille nonsense do they have no friends or family to say "Hey, brix, that is really stupid , you are doing what you are complaining about"

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          Oh great. Just what this place needed; another "I'm gonna read way too much in to every comment and call everyone Nazi" troll.

          1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Sounds like something a Nazi would say!

            1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

              Well I never said I wasn't a Nazi.

          2. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

            sounds like something a Nazi would say

          3. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

            Also this sounds like something a Nazi would say.

        2. Zeb   2 months ago

          So no one is ever allowed to tell people to mind their own business because to do so would be failing to mind one's own business?
          This is why I didn't go into professional philosophy.

          1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

            Yeah, that and the total lack of applicable jobs

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              And definitely not a field where they'll pay you to be a grad student.

          2. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

            You didn't go in because you realized that obvious stuff was not going to make a name for you. You can tell people to mind their own business but not because you are the only person whose opinion matters. Too hard for you. Well philosophy involves language says Wittgenstein

            1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

              Well Sophia Penis Jr. is just making friends left and right, isn't he?

            2. Zeb   2 months ago

              Yeah, you got me all figured out, buddy.

              1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

                They’re still not sending their best.

        3. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

          Everyone should just live how they want and shut the fuck up about everyone else.

          Everyone should shut up but Brix that is, the Nazi self-indulgent voice of self-haters. 🙂

          Ah, yes. Hitler was renowned for telling everyone to do their own thing and leave others alone.

      3. minus the clever name   2 months ago

        I see after a few days most people on here think you are a moron. But did you get the message 🙂

    7. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

      All those women running out to do construction, underwater welding, bricklaying, concrete, mechanics, ect.

      Nothing is stopping them.

      1. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

        Logging, septic tank clean out, high steel work...

    8. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      Shut your mouth, commie scum.

    9. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

      Molly stlll loves the modern 2 gay perverts splitting the work so they can stay at home and pervesely murder their adopted baby.
      I mean they both tortured, split the work, had fun , progress

      Same-sex UK couple guilty of sexually abusing, killing adopted baby
      Jun 16, 2026

      1. Nelson   2 months ago

        Oh for Christ sake, Minus.

        Creating a sock seems like a pointless waste of time and effort to me, but since you chose to do do, at least put in the minimum of effort and don’t post the exact same irrelevant story that the Minus account obsesses over.

        And certainly don’t cut and paste it so it’s not only the same immoral opinion “supported” by the same irrelevant-to-the-topic-at-hand story, but is literally identical in format to the several dozen times Minus has posted it.

    10. Rick James   2 months ago

      Transphobic much?

    11. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs?

      Those who can must work to produce for those who have "needs".

      I suspect part of the disconnect will lie in the definition of “what they need”. Humans all around the world demonstrate how little is truly required to survive. This might be one definition of “what they need”, but is probably not close to what progressive liberals mean when they say the words “what they need”, which apparently has come to mean “providing means for everyone to live a U.S. standard lower middle class lifestyle without any further requirements or responsibility on the recipients’ part”, i.e., an air-conditioned home or apartment with an assortment of electronic gadgets, cable TV, broadband internet, free cell phone, free food, reduced electric bill, reduced gas bill, a car and oh yeah, toss in some walking-around money.

      1. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

        actually you illustrate the only problem, someone else telling ME what I need. look around : nobody spends someone else's money as carefully as they spend their own. And -- not what you think--- the problem will be , good solution or not, they will take your money to washington , skim a hefty sum off, send it back , and expect you to say "I thanks ya Missa"

    12. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      Require women to register for the draft.

      1. Nelson   2 months ago

        I agree that they should.

        But oh, the howls of outrage from conservatives would cause hearing loss in the red states if it ever happened.

      2. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        And make prostitution an MOS.

    13. Jefferson Paul   2 months ago

      Traditional gender roles are a relic of the past and need to be left in the past. There should not be woman-work and man-work, just work.

      Except for trans people, right, where conforming to traditional gender roles of the opposite sex is the top way to demonstrate that you've "transitioned."

    14. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      I blame you for this post Fist.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   2 months ago

        That is one of my sockpuppets.

    15. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

      So your non traditional gender role is bending over to get gangbanged at your local bathhouse?

  2. TJJ2000   2 months ago

    Maybe how [WE] Identify-as isn't important.
    Maybe the import part is Individual Liberty & Justice for all.

    Course the whole Our [WE] Identify-as [D]emon-craptic mob-RULES collectivist minds that gets to STEAL from and oppress those 'icky' people *requires* the Identify-as nomenclature doesn't it.

    While Women are Individuals far too many have turned their womanhood into Identify-as *I'm special* that gets to legislate (use 'Guns') to entitle themselves to unjust irresponsibility and ?free? sh*T (like Gun-Forced jobs and wages) refusing to *EARN* in a just society. As all [D]emon-craps have done because of; see paragraph 2.

  3. But SkyNet is a Private Company   2 months ago

    In addition to being the Rich Persons idea of a Poor person, Platner was also the the insane persons version of normal, and the feminized man’s and AWFL version of rugged masculinity.

    1. Fats of Fury   2 months ago

      For a while there he was the embodiment of inTOXICating masculinity.

    2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

      I went to a prep school, saw this type ever afterward with utter clarity.They do certain things. Abuse women, act tought, talk stupid, have to be popular. Anti-intellectual most of all.

  4. But SkyNet is a Private Company   2 months ago

    RIP FOE

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

      Everybody gets a day off.

    2. Ajsloss   2 months ago

      He was worn down with his early week sweeps. You'd think a pro like that would know to pace himself.

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        ^+1

      2. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

        Which ones constitute the sweep? Round up, brickbat and..??

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          FOE is the listener question every Monday.

        2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

          I thought it was more along the lines of being the first to drop a snarky comment about each main bullet point of the roundup. Or maybe the top 4?

  5. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

    Chicks continue to make simple things complicated.

    1. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      They were conned by the bears.

      1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

        Minivans don’t have trunks.

  6. mad.casual   2 months ago

    Why cling to the SAHM label so much?

    Virtue signalling, hedging, and deflecting. This is not new. Decades ago if you asked a Mom what she did for a living, "I am a Mom." would get thrown in. If you ask a guy what they do for a living, virtually none ever say, "I'm a Dad." You might get "I'm a single Dad." It's state of being, not an activity.

    Further, if you went on to discuss their routines with them, a fair number had kids who were pre-teens or older, cooked maybe a couple of times a week, and made sure everyone had a month's worth of clothes so that getting behind on laundry didn't mean people wore dirty clothes or went without. Some would even include scheduling playdates and meeting mom groups as part of the SAHM "occupation". Running to Starbucks with another "co-mom" in the building and sitting in the park while your kids play is not a job. You and your husband taking turns telling the kids to bring their dishes and laundry to the respective machines and loading and unloading them yourselves doesn't make you a "working mom" any more than it makes him a "working dad" and, other than loading 2 (or 3 or 4...) times the amount of laundry, you aren't doing anything you (both/all) wouldn't be doing individually anyway.

    Some women (and men) grow out of it. Some women (and men) maintain the "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression." trap from their teen years well into their 50s.

    1. mad.casual   2 months ago

      "No woman gets an orgasm from shining the kitchen floor,"

      Once again, despite 2,000 yrs. of almost every woman in the Western world being attached to one and ~1,500 yrs. of backwards, cave-dwelling Islamists "surgically" removing them left and right, women finally get a "map" of their own genitals (NSFW?). Handed to them of a team that's ~70% male.

      Patriarchy's fault for not having Phase Contrast X-ray Tomography 2,000 yrs. ago and forcing this depression on women like that, of course. Men really should've been trying harder longer to figure out how to please women (NSFW.).

      1. Zeb   2 months ago

        What was going on before 2000 years ago? Do I want to know?

        1. mad.casual   2 months ago

          I was being generous and conveniently fudged the number a little; no "West". But you're right, >20,000 yrs. of each sex having their own genitals and virtually all males figure out (self-) gratification before their late teens while some women still struggle well past menopause. "Our" fault.

      2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        "women finally get a "map" of their own genitals (NSFW?)"

        Well that was disappointing.

        1. mad.casual   2 months ago

          Personally, I find my copy of the braille version to be pretty stimulating. YMMV.

  7. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

    "...The fact that he was cast as a man of the people by elites, while the working class rejected him, seems kind of emblematic of the whole progressive project right now..."

    Aw, you were watching Tom Steyer's gubernatorial ads...

    1. minus the clever name   2 months ago

      At least in this comment you are obviously off.

      The person you are responding to is right and facts have borne him out.

  8. Agammamon   2 months ago

    >One, at some point in the past, you probably benefited from the work of a stay-at-home mom or homemake

    Yes, I have. You still have not explained why I should care about what labele these people slap on each other.

  9. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

    There is the recurring claim among Rosseauian romantics that humans are 'inhabiting the home of wild animals'. Bullshit; humans are the apex predator and we live where we please, and those animals exist at our pleasure.
    So, such romantics have outlawed hunting of catamounts, bears and wolves (now returning to CA), and those animals no longer have fear of humans, some finding them 'tasty'.
    Further, ranchers have maintained that they are a threat to cattle herds. Well:

    "California wolves' main food source isn't wild"
    [...]
    "DNA analysis of scat from two Northern California packs showed cattle in 72% of samples; small mammals appeared in 51% and mule deer in 45%. Researchers also detected bison, chickens, and pigs, likely from farm waste or garbage. The results highlight a tension at the core of the predator's comeback: "Their conservation success is because of livestock producers in the state," study co-author and UC Davis economist Tina Saitone tells the Los Angeles Times..."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/california-wolves-main-food-source-isn-t-wild/ar-AA27zpT4?ocid=BingNewsSerp

    (some) Didn't see this coming!

  10. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

    Met Police were chased out of London last night by hordes of Muslims.

    One officer in hospital with serious injuries.

    No Keir Starmer addressing the nation?

    Telling they'll face the full force of the law?

    Sadiq Khan not saying how "welcoming" London is?

    https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/2075518751147970618

    1. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      Didn't Starmer resign?

      1. damikesc   2 months ago

        Very slowly...

    2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Multiculturalism means having foreign citizen riots right down the street. Why dont you respect culture?

  11. Ajsloss   2 months ago

    No woman gets an orgasm from shining the kitchen floor

    Perhaps try a wobbly washing machine?

    1. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

      No woman man gets an orgasm from shining the kitchen floor, so we are even.

      1. Ajsloss   2 months ago

        Come to think of it, I've never got one from sitting at my desk either (though, sometimes watching my spreadsheet work is borderline erotic).

    2. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      It depends on how they hold the floor buffer, I suppose.

    3. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

      Some of us saw that John Candy movie where Annette Bening says exactly that.

    4. TrickyVic (old school)   2 months ago

      You would think witches would know what to do with the stick end of the broom (or mop).

      I'll see myself out.

  12. Marshal   2 months ago

    The better comment about Platner:

    Dems have spent the last three decades calling white men rapists and fascist. Platner was their way of showing that rapists and fascists are welcome in the Dem party as long as they hate Jews enough.

  13. mad.casual   2 months ago

    Cocomelon heroin

    Not. Even. Once.

  14. Rick James   2 months ago

    Stay-at-home moms: Reader, let me take your hand and guide you to a realm of the internet that I inhabit, which you probably don't even know exists.

    Is this the American version of Mumsnet?

  15. Rick James   2 months ago

    Today's topic? What exactly the term "stay-at-home mom" means, and whether "work"—presumably meaning formal participation in the labor force—disqualifies you.

    Liz Wolf, meet Mary Harrington.

  16. Rick James   2 months ago

    Perhaps you're thinking, Why should I, a reader of Roundup, care about any of this at all?

    Because it tweaks the noses of the "omg, stop it with the kultur war hurr durr- this resident is of two minds- this comedian is 'more interesting than the woke-baiters'" types. It's fun!

  17. Rick James   2 months ago

    or watching a neighbor's kids in addition to her own—is an underdiscussed component of our labor market that we still don't really know how to characterize (and that the Social Security Administration sure as hell doesn't know what to do about).

    Liz, meet Mary Harrington, radical feminist.

    1. mad.casual   2 months ago

      There's also an interesting inversion to 'the mother-shaped blind spot' as well.

      And by inversion, I mean here's Andrew Tate, founder, king, and CEO of the man-o-sphere, evil misogynist extraordinaire, proudly talking about how the first thing he did when he got rich was set his mother up for retirement. *And* going on about how his principled, disciplinarian Dad, who taught him everything, had one regret before he died, it's that he let his principles prevent him from setting his (ex-)wife up better (even after their divorce).

  18. Rick James   2 months ago

    It's possible the women Friedan was writing about truly had "no thought for the unfeminine problems of the world outside the home," but I doubt it.

    Liz, meet Mary Harrington.

    1. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

      Betty Friedan didn't know the ugly future with Germaine Greer and
      Gloria Steinem, women you'd kill even if they were your mother.
      It's one thing to be for women another to hate everything that isn't a woman

  19. Zeb   2 months ago

    So, mom Twitter is just like regular twitter. Everyone finding new ways to be assholes and nitpick at each other.

  20. See.More   2 months ago

    (Mamdani could serve this population by loosening restrictions on home daycares, homeschooling co-ops, and the like, but he doesn't seem to want to serve this constituency.)

    Mamdani's pathology ideology requires that the government take over childrearing to mold them into good, obedient little socialist cogs.

    "No woman gets an orgasm from shining the kitchen floor," wrote Betty Friedan

    Maybe if they'd invented a riding floor buffer with the seat angled just so. . .

    1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      I’m pretty sure they have, I’m just not going to search for it and link it here.

      1. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

        All I can think of here is the South Park wheel thing invented by Mr Garrison.

        http://hackaday.com/2011/06/02/edward-the-vehicle-of-the-future/

        1. mad.casual   2 months ago

          6/10. Needs more gimbal-stabilized cupholders.

    2. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      Marx:

      10. Free education for all children in public schools.
      Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form.
      Combination of education with industrial production,
      &c, &c.

      Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this
      infamous proposal of the Communists.
      On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based?
      On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family
      exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its
      complement in the practical absence of the family among the
      proletarians, and in public prostitution.
      The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its
      complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
      Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by
      their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.
      But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace
      home education by social.
      And your education! Is not that also social, and determined by the social
      conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or
      indirect, of society, by means of schools, &c.? The Communists have not
      invented the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to
      alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the
      influence of the ruling class.
      The bourgeois clap-trap about the family and education, about the
      hallowed co-relation of parents and child, becomes all the more
      disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties
      among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed
      into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.

  21. Rick James   2 months ago

    "The cultural messaging seemed to me that I would waste my potential by not doing something professionally," says my friend Meredith Thornburgh, mother of two and a historian of the domestic economy who studies "technological change in the modern home," as well as our "thinking about the economy and what counts as work."

    2nd wave feminists were beneficiaries of the patriarchal invention of technological advances in home appliances, thus liberating women from the crucial economic contribution they had made for the last 100,000 years.

    No one (especially Libertarianism Plus/Libertarianism Adapted for Modern Audiences) ever stops to think about the consequences of technology on the job market/lost employment.

    When we introduced automation into the home, women (who are being referred to as SAHMs in this thread) quite literally lost their jobs. Their labor which previously was a significant contributor to the economy was redundant and/or superfluous (you know, like that team that assisted the researcher collating data pre-AI).

    I'm not making a statement about the need to return to that pre-industrial state, but I am going to point out the effects of the techno-industrial state. When 'women's work' was utterly crucial to the development and functioning of society (even though their name may not have been on the deed (to quote Mary Harrington)) and then suddenly *poof*, that crucial work can be done at the touch of a button, reducing tasks to minutes which used to take hours-- that's going to create some pretty big upheavals. Especially when those women are still frustratingly tied to their millions-of-years-established biology: Weaker, get taken out of the productive labor pool for ~9 months if they get pregnant etc.

    This of course is why 'techno-capitalism' (as Harrington calls it) demands women reject their own biology' and ( in my opinion) why they become an order of magnitude happier when they finally accept it... you know, like Nick Gillespie's young bride is beginning to.

    1. Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)   2 months ago

      "get taken out of the productive labor pool for ~9 months if they get pregnant"

      2 months. Most work right up to delivery and recover within 6 weeks.

      1. Rick James   2 months ago

        I work in an industry that has a pretty good distribution of women and men. Nearly 100% of the young women who got pregnant while on the job either dramatically reduced their work hours and/or went on 'maternity leave' both before and after the pregnancy-- for a total time that probably came close to, or even met (or exceeded) 9 months.

  22. Rick James   2 months ago

    I have to confess, I do smile a bit when I see women discovering the "women-shaped hole" in feminism.

    1. Rick James   2 months ago

      'mother-shaped-hole'. Sorry. But actually, in 2026, it's also got a woman-shaped hole...

      1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        We need a whole new field of biology to study holes.

        1. Ajsloss   2 months ago

          Some of those holes are just inverted penises that become dick sleeves.

    2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

      Women generally reject your view

      "women’s equality can’t be premised on our interchangeability with men. We are different, with fertility being the most obvious asymmetry. You can try to disguise or destroy the differences, or you can decide what it means to advocate for women as women, not defective men."

  23. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

    Somewhat on theme, but topical...

    Saw where the WNT will receive 50% of the winnings of the MNT from their World Cup stint, with people snidely saying "pay the women more, they actually win World Cups".

    I had this discussion with a relative a few years back (before the new WNT contracts were done).

    ------------

    I think this is part of the problem...Megan Rapinoe thinks that her job is to play soccer.

    “I’m a member of the LGBTQ community with pink hair, and where I come from, I could have only dreamed of standing in the position I am today at the White House. I’m also a professional athlete, and I’ve helped — along with all of my teammates virtually here today, one teammate literally here today — win four World Cup championships and four Olympic gold medals for the United States,” Rapinoe said.

    “Despite those wins, I’ve been devalued, I’ve been disrespected and dismissed because I am a woman. I’ve been told that I don’t deserve any more than less because I am a woman. You see, despite all the wins, I’m still paid less than men who do the same job that I do,” she continued. “For each trophy — of which there are many — and for each win, for each tie, and for each time that we play, it’s less.”

    The lawsuit argued in part that "the female players have been consistently paid less money than their male counterparts. This is true even though their performance has been superior to that of the male players."

    In reality, her job, like all professional athletes, is to put butts in seats, sell tickets, sell merchandise, sell ads on TV coverage of her games. As Mises economists put it:

    "Revenues follow from the entertainment value of the play. When it comes to compensation, what matters is the ability of the players to entertain. Pro athletes, after all, are fundamentally just entertainers, no different from the buskers who do handstands on the street corner. Some people may mistakenly believe that chasing a ball around constitutes some sort of highly-valuable enterprise in itself — but unless consumers are willing to pay to watch it, it has no large-scale economic value.

    The lawsuit for equal pay reflects this notion, too, by attempting to focus on the fact that the WNT has won more games than the MNT. Indisputable fact. But winning games is not the reason athletes are paid!

    The last World Cup for the men generated over $6B in revenue, with $400M going to teams in prize money (about 7%). The last World Cup for the women made about $130M, with $30M in prize money for the teams (about 23%).

    The WNT's lawsuit for "equal pay" was dismissed by a federal judge. Why? Because the WNT was offered the exact pay schedule as the men, but they rejected it:

    In dismissing the women's claim that they are paid less for the same work, Klausner pointed to differences in the structure of the men's and women's contracts — contracts to which they agreed in collective bargaining.

    "The WNT [Women's National Team] rejected an offer to be paid under the same pay-to-play structure as the MNT [Men's National Team] and ... the WNT was willing to forgo higher bonuses for other benefits, such as greater base compensation and the guarantee of a higher number of contracted players," Klausner wrote. "Accordingly, Plaintiffs cannot now retroactively deem their CBA worse than the MNT CBA by reference to what they would have made had they been paid under the MNT's pay-to-play structure when they themselves rejected such a structure."

    As those Mises economists have laid out, the way the women will get paid more is to make their product something that everyone is willing to pay to see:

    Ultimately, however, whether or not the women get "equal pay" depends not on the team owners, but on the consumers. If the women's team wants just as much pay, it will need to generate just as much revenue. That is, these things will need to happen:

    * The consumers are willing to pay at least as much ( in terms of ticket prices) to see women play as to see men play. They'll also need to watch broadcasts in numbers similar to men's broadcasts, thus driving up ad revenue for the women's team.
    * The women's teams will then generate more revenue.
    * Thus, female athletes will then produce more revenue than male athletes.
    * Female athletes are therefore paid more by the owners.

    If the fans want the women to be paid more than the men, the consumers will have to spend more.

    Even some of the players recognize this. Earlier this week, US women's team member Megan Rapinoe outlined how consumers can support a pay hike for the women's team : "Come to games ... buy players' jerseys ... become season ticket holders."

    Rapinoe is right. When the consumers pay more to see the women, the women will be paid more to play.

    1. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

      Ain’t gonna happen.

    2. mad.casual   2 months ago

      Saw where the WNT will receive 50% of the winnings of the MNT from their World Cup stint, with people snidely saying "pay the women more, they actually win World Cups".

      Steering back towards SAHM; Despite the fact that there is literally a movie, lauded by feminists, titled Bend It Like Beckham with two teenage girls as protagonists, I'd bet World Cup sums of money that the number of men and boys saying "I want to play soccer because of Megan Rappinoe." exists entirely within a spectrum between 0 and 1.

      Edit: Further, I bet the number of men and boys who want to play soccer like David Beckham or football like Tom Brady because of Victoria Beckham and Gisele Bundchen is several orders of magnitude larger than... [Googles] Sue Bird.

      1. Rick James   2 months ago

        Edit: Further, I bet the number of men and boys who want to play soccer like David Beckham or football like Tom Brady because of Victoria Beckham and Gisele Bundchen is several orders of magnitude larger than... [Googles] Sue Bird.

        Meme:

        *Man with son looking at old dude with hot chick* Study hard, young man.

        *Man with daughter looking at old dude with hot chick* Study hard, young lady.

        1. mad.casual   2 months ago

          *Both look at Rapinoe and Bird* Seriously, you guys need to go study.

        2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

          You still have the defect of not knowing what a woman thinks

          "Our culture talks a lot about women’s empowerment, but underneath that, I think there’s actually a deep discomfort with femaleness and the implicit belief that women should become as a much like men in order to be successful and free"

    3. TrickyVic (old school)   2 months ago

      Bill Burr has a funny take on that.

      Also, Rapino sounds like a woman that believes women should have everything they get plus half of what men get.

      1. Mike Parsons   2 months ago

        Rapino is a bog standard feminist:

        Selfish, entitled, narcissistic, and wanting the double standard of being treated like a woman when it benefits her, but also wants privileges men enjoy too.

        The soccer contract was an example of the same double standard; she wanted the benefit of the safety of the contract the women wanted, that provided a safe guarantee of pay, but then when she did well she wanted the benefit that the men would have gotten, because they picked a riskier win-based contract. Its the most standard shit feminists do, and they always do it.

  24. Rick James   2 months ago

    Now, our thinking about domestic work frequently falls into meme form: Should girls grow up to become girlbosses or tradwives?

    Neither. They should grow up how they want... but what we shouldn't do TO them is nudge, or outright tell them to reject their own biology.

    1. mad.casual   2 months ago

      NB re: motherwoman-shaped hole; unless their "biology" tells them to mutilate themselves. Then nudge.

  25. Rick James   2 months ago

    Teen-suicide rates fell by 40 percent from 1990 to 2010—a time when teens were undoubtedly using the internet.

    Not making a comment on the correlation between smart phones/social media and teen girl suicide rates, but the 1990-2010 internet was a different galaxy from the one we have now.

    That's almost correlating a specific technology with the existence of electricity in the home.

    1. mad.casual   2 months ago

      That's almost correlating a specific technology with the existence of electricity in the home.

      +1 In the US, deaths from electrocution indoors initially rose from 1882 and then gradually declined until 2001 when Mark Burkett was tased to death* in a Florida jail cell.

      *Technically, died with of excited delirium "acute exhaustive mania with no drugs in his system".

  26. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

    With the best of intentions, what could possibly go wrong...

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/san-francisco-plots-risky-socialist-bank-modeled-after-controversial-experiment/ar-AA27B1ij

    San Francisco voters will decide whether the city should have a public bank after city supervisors this week approved such a proposal to appear on the November ballot.

    The city would be the first in the nation to have a municipal government-owned bank. Only the state of North Dakota runs a major public bank in the nation.

    But the city’s proposal gives no answer as to where the estimated $325 million in start-up costs will come from as the city faces a $643 million budget deficit.

    Socialist Supervisor Jackie Fielder, who just returned from a months-long mental health leave, indicated that future legislation would figure out a revenue steam. Supporters of a bank wanted to get ahead of a 2028 expiration date for a state law that gives cities the power to create their own public banks.

    A city bank, supporters say, would unlock financing for thousands of housing units that lack funding to address the housing crisis. It could finance climate goals or lend to small businesses in the area.

    The bank would be run by qualified bankers appointed by an oversight committee whose members would be selected by local officials. While it does not establish a revenue stream, the ballot measure would at least enshrine the bank’s rules, structure and mission in the city’s charter — including a provision that it would never lend to fossil fuel corporations or weapons manufacturers.

    1. TrickyVic (old school)   2 months ago

      ""A city bank, supporters say, would unlock financing for thousands of housing units that lack funding to address the housing crisis. It could finance climate goals or lend to small businesses in the area.""

      It's easy to throw money around when it's the taxpayer that absorbs the risk.

      1. Zeb   2 months ago

        And, as we have learned, that always works out well.

      2. mad.casual   2 months ago

        The idea of a bank as a sort of public, for profit, financial laundromat rather than a private business that makes money securing people's savings and investments is nuts.

        Bank: Let's lend people money on mortgages they can't afford *and* insure against losses using CDSs. Win-win!
        Citizen: Oh, hell no! Then, if the housing market cools, the insurance backing people's securities goes along with it. There ought to be a law to make sure banks don't get over-leveraged that way.

        "Bank": Let's take peoples' savings and invest it in "climate goals" or small businesses that totally never fluctuate or go under.
        Citizen: Sounds like a great idea! With the best of intentions! What could possibly go wrong?!

    2. Medulla Oblongata   2 months ago

      Meanwhile...

      The [San Francisco international airport] is hoping to build a brand-new terminal exclusively for passengers who pay a premium, gaining access to a luxurious airport experience complete with private security lines and valet service from terminal to tarmac. It will service commercial flights, not business or corporate jets, and the terminal will have its own Transportation Security Administration (TSA) lines as well as Customs and Border Protection (CBP) lines for international travel.

  27. MWAocdoc   2 months ago

    "Part of the reason policymakers don't seem to know what to do?

    ... and the rest of the reason policymakers is that they should not be policy makers in the first place. The whole concept of policy makers is deeply flawed from the get-go! There is one and only one fundamental government policy: stay out of private lives and activities completely. The only other policy for government officials should be to do the minimal tasks required by the Constitution and ONLY those required tasks. Do not go looking for ways to expand the scope and power of government authority - EVER. And We The People should never ALLOW government to expand its scope and authority.

    1. Philosophia Perennis Jr   2 months ago

      Except this is the exact opposite of the American Founding. You are entitled to your addle-pated bullshit but NO ONE HAS RIGHTS without government and the FIRST role of government is to do what you don't want them to do at all

      Let me quote a Pope while you consult Roget's Book of Filthy Synonyms

      Pacem in Terris , Pope John XXIII is my guide on this
      “Responsibilities of the Public Authority, and Rights and Duties of Individuals

      60. It is generally accepted today that the common good is best safeguarded when personal rights and duties are guaranteed. The chief concern of civil authorities must therefore be to ensure that these rights are recognized, respected, co-ordinated, defended and promoted, and that each individual is enabled to perform his duties more easily. For “to safeguard the inviolable rights of the human person, and to facilitate the performance of his duties, is the principal duty of every public authority.”

      1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        "Pacem in Terris , Pope John XXIII is my guide on this"

        A superstitious guy in a funny hat is your guide? Do you really want us to know that?

        1. minus the clever name   2 months ago

          You are such a childish moron. Always with 'US' when you get cornered , a real sissy boy. Hey , you talkin to us

        2. minus the clever name   2 months ago

          Love it when you make a public fool of yourself. Yes that is the Pope QUOTING THE THOUGHT of philosopher Jacques Maritain, an architect of the UN Declaration on Human Rights. You lazy child (as you would say 🙂

  28. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

    "they wanted the men to make the major decisions."

    Always a good idea.

    1. minus the clever name   2 months ago

      This still misses the point and does so by picking a point in the causal chain that suits what you intend to say and evidence be damned

      The men who make the best decisions often are that way because of MOM. you know , the hand that rocks the cradle

      Abraham Lincoln said, "All that I am or hope to be, I owe to my angel mother".

      1. Mike Parsons   2 months ago

        "The men who make the best decisions often are that way because of MOM. "

        Tons of data from the inner city proves this exactly wrong. DAD being present, and both parents being there, seems to be what makes for success. Men raised by women alone more often have issues. Good fathers seem to be one of if not the most important variables

        1. minus the clever name   2 months ago

          Mike , don't be your typical self. I never said anything about Dad. I never said 'women alone' . The whole topic is feminism, women, roles. GROW UP , YOU DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

        2. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

          That's right. What gets called "toxic masculinity" is actually effeminacy.

  29. minus the clever name   2 months ago

    First you are a human then a man or woman. And not even that at the beginning and the end of life. The only rights we ever have are as human beings....delineated by our actual circumstances but all reducing to just plain human rights. Marriage adds a sacred bond but some will argue against that because of the 'sacred' part

  30. HarrietLi   2 months ago

    I really don't like it when blogging is used as an example of how mothers on maternity leave can earn money. Millions of people manage social media, but only a small fraction achieve significant success. On the other hand, there are many other options for making money online. I tried my hand at football betting and got off to a really good start. Anyone can download the app and devote a few hours a week to this activity. By the way, pay attention to updated 1xbet registration download info. Create an account, receive bonuses and take advantage of every opportunity.

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