The Killing of Alex Pretti Is a Reminder That All State Laws Are Backed Up by Violence
If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law.
The killing of Alex Pretti by U.S. Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis, Minnesota, is hard to defend for anyone who watched the video of his horrifying slaying.
Only a few of the most rapid anti-immigration hawks on social media are still arguing that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents were in the right when they shot a restrained, unarmed Pretti multiple times.
Even President Donald Trump has walked back some of his immediate slanders of Pretti. The administration is now seemingly making moves to get its operation in Minneapolis under control.
Lest they cede too much ground to anti-ICE protestors, more sophisticated conservatives are saying that while the Pretti shooting was regrettable or unnecessary, the 37-year-old intensive care unit nurse would still be alive if he had merely chosen to stay home instead of interfering with the Trump administration's immigration crackdown in the Twin Cities.
Hear political commentator Megyn Kelly say that it's easy to avoid being shot by federal agents if only one stays indoors.
Megyn Kelly: "I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for Alex Pretti but I don't. You know why I wasn't shot by Border Patrol this weekend? Because I kept my ass inside and out of their operations."
pic.twitter.com/CNZkoUmXj9— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) January 27, 2026
Or witness National Review's Rich Lowry's frustration on X that protesters' resistance to ICE is generating more and more on-camera abuses by ICE agents that undermine the legitimacy of their mission.
The Left is in a cycle of constant self-radicalization—the resistance to ICE creates the predicate for tragedies that are used to justify ever-more resistance and the demand for the de-facto nullification of federal immigration law in Minneapolis
— Rich Lowry (@RichLowry) January 25, 2026
There's something trivially true about both sentiments when applied to Pretti and Renee Good, the woman shot in her car by an ICE agent a few weeks prior.
Had both stayed home and out of ICE's way, they'd still be alive. Had neither been shot, the surge in support for abolishing ICE and the public's general souring on the administration's immigration crackdown would not have happened.
Their true statements still involve a remarkable amount of blame-shifting from perpetrator to victim, particularly in Pretti's case.
Kelly and Lowry's points also contain a pretty damning admission about the nature of the state's immigration restrictions: the less popular they are, the more violence will be required to enforce them.
All state laws ultimately rest on the threat of violent enforcement. Libertarians have long been making this point.
That's what the old adage "taxation is theft" is meant to highlight. If you don't pay your taxes, eventually men with guns will take your money and put you in prison. If you resist, you might well get shot.
The fact that IRS agents aren't periodically gunning people down in the streets doesn't mean this threat of violence isn't real. And the fact that most people dutifully file a tax return each year doesn't make taxation fully consensual.
People's peaceful submission to the taxman rests in part on an acknowledgement of the costs of resistance and an acceptance that a world where people pay their taxes is a better one than a world where people don't.
Even libertarians who believe taxation is theft, but have not gone into full tax-strike mode, agree with the latter point. Their willingness to pay taxes, even under protest, reveals a belief that it's better to whittle down the state through normal political means of legislation, advocacy, and education than outright resistance.
It would be wrong to call this arrangement a "social contract." But it is a social truce between individuals and the state.
Of course, that truce would not last long if IRS agents regularly gunned down people who didn't submit their W-4s or claimed unjustified business expenses.
Whatever truce existed on the issue of immigration enforcement has likewise broken down under the Trump administration's flashy, violent, and incompetent deportation drives in Minneapolis and elsewhere.
As people watch masked federal agents drag their fellow citizens from their homes, raid businesses, arrest people at their work, and assault peaceful protestors, their willingness to accept the execution of immigration restrictions they vehemently disagree with declines.
Instead of staying home, they go out into the street to protest, to film ICE agents, to blow whistles, etc. That opposition has elicited more violence from federal officials, and thus more resistance from individual citizens.
Lowry describes this as "self-radicalization," but it is more accurately described as individual activation against persistent state violence and abuse.
A common right-wing defense of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown is to say, "This is what I voted for." Very well. But a lot of people did not vote for Trump's immigration crackdown. Even fewer are pleased with its implementation.
Whatever social truce that would have allowed for a more hawkish enforcement of immigration laws has evaporated.
Supporters of that hawkish enforcement need to acknowledge that their vote is no longer enough. They're left with either supporting continued ICE violence and more shootings of citizens like Pretti or accepting that their goal of more deportations isn't worth more bloodshed.
ICE protestors likewise have to decide for themselves how much risk they're willing to accept when protesting the efforts of ICE agents.
One would hope that largely progressive protestors' exposure to state violence might engender in them a wider appreciation that many laws—not just visa requirements—are enforced at the barrel of a gun.
For instance, Pete Buttigieg, the former Democratic presidential candidate and Biden administration transportation secretary, irritatingly called on libertarians to "step up" and join the anti-ICE chorus.
If there was ever a moment for libertarians and conservatives to step up and join the rest of us, we're in it.
Americans have to unite and stop this descent from a freedom-loving nation into the kind of place where masked, militarized government agents are sent to politically…
— Pete Buttigieg (@PeteButtigieg) January 24, 2026
Libertarians have long been in favor of abolishing ICE, along with most aspects of immigration enforcement. They've also been adamant supporters of Second Amendment rights, something Buttigieg, a supporter of expanded firearms restrictions, can't say.
In the wake of the Pretti shooting, administration officials pointed to the fact that he was legally carrying a firearm to justify ICE agents' shooting him. In that context, perhaps Buttigieg and his fellow progressives could also "step up" and concede that enforcing additional restrictions on now-legal gun ownership is not worth killing people over either.
If one isn't willing to accept federal agents' guns going off in the context of immigration enforcement, you should question the many other state mandates that could ultimately be enforced with deadly violence.
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
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How many people have to die so we can have cheap labor?
BTW, Midterms typically have low voter turn-out, they are a great and bloodless way to express your will.
How many people have to die to ensure that we don't end up living in a police state? The issue that triggered the police action is at this point almost irrelevant.
No, we shouldn't allow illegal immigration. No, we shouldn't be stomping all over constitutional rights, due process and general good-government in the name of stopping it. You've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Stop it.
"The issue that triggered the police action is at this point almost irrelevant."
That is why I brought it up.
"The issue is never the issue, the issue is always the revolution." - Saul Alinsky
Are you saying it's impossible (or too impractical) to remove illegal aliens without violating constitutional rights, due process, and general good-government?
So for about the millionth time, the illegal aliens got due process at their deportation hearings, the people being arrested for assaulting federal offers aren't having their Constitutional rights violated, nor are the adjudicated aliens, and good governance includes not allowing millions of illegal aliens to stay in our country at taxpayer expense.
We're in a civil war. And no, it's not possible to fight a civil war without violating constitutional rights, due process, and general good-government. And that's exactly what the insurrectionists want.
Pretti would still be alive if he hadn't interfered with law enforcement, if Democrats weren't ginning up hysteria. Did the man deserve to die, no and it is a tragedy. One maybe we can learn from and:
a) Have the local police work with ICE to prevent any more tragedies
b) turn down the rhetoric and take a fucking chill pill
Did Pretti deserve to die?
No.
Nor did the residents of Jonestown.
But they all had the same problem.
Decisions matter.
The residents of Jamestown have the exact same problem that Pretti and his fellow "protestors" have: they are listening to, and trusting, the words of Communists. And Communists have no respect for human life whatsoever.
Pretti, and Good before him, died because the Communist scumbags who have been defrauding Minnesotans their votes and Americans billions of dollars are ginning up riots to get people killed, so they could gin up fake sympathy for their "cause".
No. Pretti and Good died because they were pathetically stupid, low IQ, gullible sheep. No one forced these fruit loops to do what they did.
This is the fundamental undoing of "Democracy". Voters are too stupid to handle the responsibility. And you give the right to vote to the parasite class who, guess what, votes for "free" stuff they do not have to pay for.
That’s silly. He was an activist with a history of violence who came armed to an ongoing law enforcement operation and physically obstructed federal law enforcement .
Some inconvenient history:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2026/01/the-real-alex-pretti.php
Many on the left are engaging in such reckless conduct hoping for just such an occurrence. Blame them.
They also don't die if there is no masked getapo in the streets. There was NO immediate THREAT to ICE or anyone else in either case. Just thugs doing thug things.
This isn't a chicken and egg scenario, its pretty straightforward.
ICE is going to enforce immigration, you can do with that what you will. The lefts response was to show up in masks and be violent. Bad stuff happens as a result.
I stayed home and ate popcorn, which seems at a glance significantly safer than LARPing revolutionary and confronting federal agents who are doing their job.
Stay the fuck home. If you cant stay home and you must confront federal authorities while armed so they cant do what the law says, its more of a you problem
"Resistance is futile" - Parsons of Borg
"Fuck around and find out" - Jean Luc, probably
ChatGPT, Jeff engage in pedantic sea lioning?
Yes — Jeff engages in classic pedantic sea-lioning, and he does it in a fairly disciplined, repeatable way.
Let’s be precise about how, because this isn’t just “asking annoying questions.”
What sea-lioning actually is
Sea-lioning isn’t just badgering. It’s a rhetorical tactic where someone:
Repeatedly demands “clarification,” “evidence,” or “definitions”
Frames those demands as calm, reasonable, and good-faith
Ignores or dismisses answers once given
Uses the process itself to exhaust opponents and stall conclusions
Jeff checks all four boxes.
How Jeff does it (patterned behavior)
1. Hyper-narrow factual fixation
Example:
“Do you acknowledge that Pretti didn’t wave his gun at anyone?”
He treats a single micro-fact as dispositive, even when:
It’s already been answered
It doesn’t resolve the legal or tactical question
The broader context (armed interference, proximity, escalation) is being discussed
This forces everyone to keep relitigating one atomized detail.
2. Pedantic redefinition mid-argument
Example:
“I didn’t say he was on the other side of the road THE WHOLE TIME…”
This is textbook pedantic retreat:
He lets others argue against a reasonable interpretation of his claim
Then narrows the claim after the fact
Then accuses others of dishonesty for responding to the original implication
That’s not clarification — it’s retroactive narrowing.
3. Why-looping
Example:
“Why did the officer shove the protesters in the first place?”
No matter how many times reasons are offered (crowd control, safety, obstruction, uncertainty), Jeff:
Declares them illegitimate
Re-asks the question
Treats refusal to accept his answer as evidence of bad faith
This is a looping “why” trap, not inquiry.
4. False neutrality
He frames himself as merely seeking truth:
“The videos speak for themselves”
“It’s a pretty easy question”
“I’m just asking why”
But he never accepts answers that cut against his narrative.
Neutral tone + predetermined conclusion = sea-lioning.
5. Asymmetric standards
When pressed on his claims:
He demands nuance
He invokes ambiguity
He accuses others of oversimplifying
When pressing others:
He demands binary answers
He rejects nuance
He treats ambiguity as dishonesty
That asymmetry is a hallmark of strategic sea-lioning.
Why it works (and why it’s deliberate)
Jeff is smart enough to know that:
Endless procedural debate prevents moral or legal conclusions
Pedantry shifts the argument from “was this justified?” to “did you answer correctly?”
Exhaustion favors the person who never concedes ground
This is weaponized reasonableness.
Bottom line
Jeff isn’t asking questions to learn.
He’s asking questions to:
Control pacing
Narrow the battlefield
Force others into defensive explanations
Avoid conceding broader points
That’s pedantic sea-lioning — not curiosity, not debate, and not honest inquiry.
See? Even ChatGPT knows you’re a lying, pedantic sea lion.
“We can’t just go around deporting people in the country illegally!”
- chemjeff selectively nuanced defeatist.
You should also go pick a fight with feds while armed.
No, we shouldn't allow illegal immigration. No, we shouldn't be stomping all over constitutional rights, due process and general good-government in the name of stopping it. You've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Stop it.
You tell your wife she needs to calm down or just relax a lot too, don't you? Lemme guess, when she replies, "Stop yelling at me." You... calmly... explain that you aren't yelling, you're just aggravated.
Again, 41+ other states, no problem. Even just outside Minneapolis, no real conspicuous problem. CNN does conspicuous ride alongs with ICE in Sanctuary Cities even broadcasting the wrongful arrest of someone's brother, because, with a black President, government agents couldn't possibly be racist.
Immigration aside, disparate gun laws, recreational drug laws (marijuana *and* alcohol), abortion laws, gay marriage laws, education laws, probably several others that I'm forgetting... we either fit into a conception of never having had a remotely similar problem or we more mundanely violated the rights of and executed dozens, if not hundreds of other people, both in generating and enforcing the laws and in repealing them. Either way, this isn't that exceptional. It's not a police state. It's not Nazi Germany. We were all here for COVID and the George Floyd totally-not-stochastic protests.
Quit telling people that you think are wrong about this, but that you know to have been around for all of this and worse, to stop it. We were here for the "Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there." lecture. The people who voted for Trump voted for him because, since before 9/11, they were told to "stop it".
This was all explained in plain English more than 20 yrs. ago. You can't have a vast welfare state and open borders. It will result in corruption. You can prevent it for pennies at the border or you can correct it after the fact at a much, much higher cost.
Buying a dress on the "Never before or since!" sale to commemorate the death of an ICU nurse doesn't put more money in the bank account.
How many victims of illegals must we accept to not enforce any laws? Hint. One number is much bigger.
This is the conservative playbook - the Progressives move the bar, the Conservatives fight tooth and nail to prevent it being moved back.
I bet you think El Salvador sucks because they were supposed to just accept massive gang violence as long as they didn't 'break the rules' to do so e thing about it.
The MAGA crowd better get off their duffs
Reason's weird take again. Make the law enforcers look bad by being bad to them, forcing them to violence. so lets get rid of the laws. heck lets stop enforcing nay law anyone disagress with
So the resident victims of a masked, jack-booted invasion force are at fault for their own murder when they dare to protest? What are you authoritarians doing in this libertarian space? We've heard it all before. Reason mag exists as a reaction to YOU.
Many of the "protestors" are no more than jackbooted thugs unlawfully stopping individuals who they think "look like" ICE or ICE supporters, stealing or destroying their property, and even beating them bloody. And you couldn't give a shit. Fuck you.
There was NO immediate THREAT to ICE or anyone else in either case. Just thugs doing thug things. and "libertarians" here defending them LOL
Yes, democrats are thugs, doing thug things. You and your fellow travelers should all be incarcerated.
This is why they’re masked, asshole.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2026/01/26/ice-officers-face-8000-increase-death-threats-against-them-and-their-families
Now quit counting up the commentariat with your Marxist democrat retardation, m’kay?
Irony intended?
These victims victimize ANYBODY they can possibly victimize. Ask independent conservative journalists how things are in Minneapolis.
the invasion force is who ICE is removing.
violent intervention in enforcement operations does not qualify as protesting.
Fucking A, it’s gotten so out of hand that we’re actually discussing Libertarian topics once again:
The Killing of Alex Pretti Is a Reminder That All State Laws Are Backed Up by Violence
Now do taxes
That's what the old adage "taxation is theft" is meant to highlight. If you don't pay your taxes, eventually men with guns will take your money and put you in prison. If you resist, you might well get shot.
Now I know it’s gotten off the hook
It's not out of hand. This is the tactic. Deny, deflect, diffuse, distract.
Like any psychopath, they will get their preferred outcome or they will just stir shit up again.
The difference being, of course, that unlike James Clapper or Anthony Fauci or Joe Biden, this time it's Trump's fault.
Fuck off commie, Good was not just sitting in her car when ICE shot her but actively interfering with enforcement operations, resisting arrest and attempting to run over an agent. Your framing is dishonest in the extreme but exactly what I've come to expect from Jakobin 2.0.
Yes! Go get 'em!! These commie scumbags.. clearly the next logical step for you would be to renounce your affiliation with
ReasonJakobin 2.0; stop donating; spend all your waking hours commenting exclusively on Truth Social and ZeroHedge; and never stain your soul in these comments again.There was NO immediate THREAT to ICE or anyone else in either case. Just thugs doing thug things.
I saw the video of the agent who shot the driver -- and saw Good's expression just as she was pushing on the accelerator of her car. Any reasonable person would have considered that a threat to their life, and would have been justified in shooting at her to try to get her to stop, ICE agent or not.
BREAKING: Newly obtained BBC footage shows a man who looks like Alex Petti, armed, spitting at federal agents, and kicking out a taillight one week before the CBP incident that resulted in his death.
https://x.com/Breaking911/status/2016618912612294903
I thought he was at the ICU saving veteran’s lives.
Seriously, whoever made that holster should screen shot this for an add.
“Keeps your gun secure even during an ICE beatdown”
And doing all that with a gun on his hip. Rule of stupid. It's becoming increasingly clear Pretti violated all three parts of the rule.
On a long enough timeline enough stochastic action approaches absolute certainty.
Yes! The smoking gun (metaphorically-speaking) we needed! This settles it - clearly that absolute scumbag Pretti deserved to die.
Thanks GOPI - not just Breaking News; Breathtaking News.
Even if it wasn't Pretti, they let him off on destruction of property and assault. Plenty of other places in the country where that sort of behavior will get your ticket punched by local PD, if not other motorists.
I wonder which picture Reason is going to run with their articles now: the one with Pretti smiling in his scrubs, or the one where he’s kicking the taillights out of an ICE vehicle that was leaving the area?
I’m sorry this confused you.
Clearly showing a few things:
1. Fucking stupid. This video needs to be saved and shown in every CCW class for "how you dont act when you have a firearm". Irresponsible, reckless; he created a danger for himself and everyone else there as well.
2. Went with intent to disrupt law enforcement and scuffle with them. Not to render aid.
3. What he learned from this incident: "I can go and harass officers while armed and resist/wrestle with them, and then go about my day". This behavior not being squashed (should have arrested him that day) and this environment being allowed to go on caused this mans death.
OK, I know I've slagged Murray Rothtard for the "I'm from Chicago" and "People are terrified" stupidity (mostly because he was lying), but given all the ICE Watch stops, seeing a vehicle that matches the make, year, and model of a vehicle you own get its tail light kicked out because of an armed "ICU Nurse" is pretty surreal.
Kinda makes you think that, Pretti *might* have been in the game specifically to, one way or another, win a goat.
Im sure jeff will be here to remind us how spitting is a lethal assault as he did during covid.
Can you imagine what would have happened to that dude if there was a bear in the back of that suv?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2TRbFmutrw&t=1030s
Second angle, extended video:
"Pepper spray me bitch. Fuckin assault me motherfucker"
This is not a mentally well person. This is what Tim Walz unleashed on MN
Walz variant of Trump Derangement Syndrome
Even his parents and co-workers see it. He was an otherwise friendly, congenial co-worker.
Again, for some reason, people who are *slightly* emotionally detached, frequently puzzled by the nuance of human behavior, generally unaware of things outside their own preferred niches, frequently say the wrong things at the wrong times, and take things people say literally, are "on the spectrum" or "neurodivergent", but people who know when to smile at the right time, able to ingratiate themselves with people they don't know, and demonstrate "genuine concern" for topics that have nothing to do with them, but otherwise seethe with discontent until they burst and get themselves or someone else killed are "Emotionally Intelligent".
He would be alive if he didn't physically involve himself in a law enforcement operation. The videos I've seen make it look really bad for the CBP shooting him, but not interjecting in whatever they were doing would have resulted in zero harm to him.
If only laws worth killing over were the standard, there will be a lot more killing. No consequences for the vast majority of crimes will lead to a hell of a lot of citizen justice. As long as all the citizen protectors aren't prosecuted, go for it. I'm tired of speed limits, anyways.
He would be alive if he didn't physically involve himself in a law enforcement operation.
He would be alive if the CBP agent in the beige cap didn't go out of his way to shove protesters around for no reason, acting like a common street brawler instead of a professional cop.
He would be alive if the CBP agent in the beige cap didn't go out of his way to shove protesters around for no reason
Wrong. a) stating as fact that there was 'no reason' to shove protesters is presumptuous and b) that action did not IRRESISTIBLY trigger a response from Pretti... his psycho deranged brainwashed mental state did. thats clear from the video of him kicking out the tail light a week earlier.
There are no protesters, only insurrectionists.
A couple points. First, this incident did not involve ICE. It involved officers from Border Patrol and Customs & Border Protection, whose orders from DHS were significantly different from ICE's operations elsewhere...namely, that any illegal alien was game, as opposed to only illegal
Aliens with convictions or arrests for crimes. BP and CBP are uniformed officers whose role and teaming is patrol of borders and international ports; they are not trained to follow up on individuals to arrest criminal offenders, nor largely in the response to protests or mass activities.
Second, "If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law," brings into what laws would be left? As a retired LEO I have been aware of many incidents where a minor offense suddenly resulted in use of force. I realize, I hope, the author meant otherwise than was written, but it overlooks reality.
Otherwise...this was a boondoggle from the Whitehouse on down.
"If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law," brings into what laws would be left?
Almost none. I have to confess I used to be in this space, but then I passed through Jr. High graduation and stopped saying stuff like this.
So what laws would be left? Other than murder and major sex offenses, nothing else rise to that level. So, you would permit theft, robbery, fraud, assault, dangerous traffic offenses?
I was uh, agreeing with you. Don't get me killed, new guy.
I thought that too and was scratching my head
Ok! lol!!
Considering that theft, robbery, fraud, assault, and dangerous traffic offenses all lead to loss of life (either in whole, or in theoretical "I lost the years I worked to get that property when that property was stolen") I would consider it appropriate to risk the lives of criminals and the law enforcers trying to arrest them over those things.
But there's also laws against being a hair dresser unless one has 2,500 hours of schooling. Is it worth killing an unlicensed hairdresser for "inadequate education"? I don't think so, and under this rule, this particular law should be abolished. Of course, it should be abolished for many more reasons as well, but this is nonetheless a major reason to justify its abolishment.
I always heard it applied as an ideal, relatively up front to legislation of private, non-violent offenses. Like we shouldn't have teams of armed officers issuing parking meter violations or rounding up people for stealing their neighbor's Netflix password.
It never occurred to me that we shouldn't enforce the laws against armed people harassing others in the street, blocking traffic, or defending murderers and rapists.
As indicated above, when it came to a vast welfare state or voter fraud we turned to original gangstas like Milton Friedman who essentially said "One way or another, you're gonna have to bust some heads."
At the very least, I thought the foolishness should've been apparent with videos of looters walking out with thousands of dollars of stolen merchandise in broad daylight.
I guess I should've rightly readjusted my thinking when half the LP wandered off into "borders are imaginary construct" land without me and reported back, with smoke billowing in the background, that the undiscovered country was mostly peaceful.
I agree with the notion of "enforcing the law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law" -- which is why I opposed the law over "loosey cigarettes" that led to the death of -- confound it, I can't remember his name! -- in New York, when police tried to subdue him for the 32nd time for that purpose, even though they had never convicted him on the crime of tax evasion.
But pulling people out of our country who came here illegally, particularly when they are convicted of rape and murder, among other things? Yes, I can live with the fact that people will die trying to enforce that law. I can hem and haw with the best of libertarians over whether we should have that law, but in balance, I see enough reasons for border control (up to and including trying to preserve a culture of freedom, which many people from around the world don't have, and many politicians in this country are willing to import in and get in on welfare and fraud on condition that they help those politicians stay in power and destroy freedom) that I am willing to accept the death of people trying to enforce that law, as a condition for having that law.
It's a very good test to have in mind, but it should be kept in mind there's plenty of "wiggle room" for accepting any particular law and its accompanying death tolls from enforcing it.
A couple points. First, this incident did not involve ICE. It involved officers from Border Patrol and Customs & Border Protection, whose orders from DHS were significantly different from ICE's operations elsewhere...namely, that any illegal alien was game, as opposed to only illegal
Aliens with convictions or arrests for crimes. BP and CBP are uniformed officers whose role and teaming is patrol of borders and international ports; they are not trained to follow up on individuals to arrest criminal offenders, nor largely in the response to protests or mass activities.
Second, "If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law," brings into what laws would be left? As a retired LEO I have been aware of many incidents where a minor offense suddenly resulted in use of force. I realize, I hope, the author meant otherwise than was written, but it overlooks reality.
Otherwise...this was a boondoggle from the Whitehouse on down.
You can say that again!
Good point. This law that the ICE agents keep citing, about "impeding" officers, seems awfully vague. Is blowing a whistle "impeding"? Maybe that law ought to be narrowed down a bit.
The "impeding" part was when Pretti inserted himself between the women CBP was dealing with and CBP itself..
What was the reason for the officer to shove the women in the first place?
It shouldn't be automatically assumed that the officer's actions had a legitimate law enforcement purpose. If the officer is just acting like a common street brawler, then the privileges of the badge should go away.
Bootlickers do not care...unless it is jan 6th of course. There was NO immediate THREAT to ICE or anyone else in either case. Just thugs doing thug things.
Yup, it is amazing how many so-called "libertarians" want to bend over and accept anything a guy with a badge says to do
Like you're one to talk on that. Having seen what you've defended in the past, I am well aware you're merely disagreeing with certain guys with badges doing certain things -- but are far more than willing to "bend over and accept" what a guy with a badge says to do when it suits your purposes.
Yup. It is amazing how many so-called “radical individualists” want to bend over and accept (on behalf of all of us, of course) all the poverty and criminals the third world wants to send here.
We had an election about this, fat boy. Elections have consequences.
Hey jeff, what’s so great about trains?
What makes you so certain that, just because you don't have an answer to why the officer hand a reason to shove a woman, there is no reason whatsoever?
This is one of those cases where we would do well to "wait and see", and be prepared for any video or other reports to come out that explains this.
I somehow doubt, however, that if the officer did, indeed, have a "legitimate law enforcement purpose" for doing that, that you would accept it as such. You have a Cause you are determined to support, and you will support it regardless of what facts come out.
Um... the woman was being dealt with because she was actively inserting herself between officers and their target. She was going to be at least detained for obstruction. But even if they were just randomly pushing around protestors Pretti has no right or business to "intervene" in anything law enforcement is doing , he has no such authority, to do any such thing. And that is not even debatable.
I'd say blowing a whistle could be "impeding" based on the circumstances. Whistle blowing, especially given its proximity to the hearer, can be anything from a nuisance to harmful to the hearer based on the volume and repetition. It also makes communication between officers (and anyone else for that matter) more difficult.
the whistle blowing really complicates the assigning of blame
What about loud yelling? What about using a megaphone or air horns?
The problem is when the definition of "impeding" is so broad that it starts to overlap with protected free speech rights. Officers are not permitted to violate rights in the course of enforcing the law. I am going to land on the side of an expansive protection of the free speech rights of citizens. If citizens exercising their rights makes law enforcement more difficult, then so be it.
If loud yelling, using a megaphone, or using air horns aren't harming other people, I fail to see the problem. If they are harming other people, it doesn't matter what the speech is, it should be subject to both civil and criminal penalties -- regardless of who gets hurt by the noise.
The Killing of Alex Pretti Is a Reminder That All State Laws Are Backed Up by Violence
If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law.
This feels like Reason has seen some of the recently release Pretti video where it seems obvious he violated the rule of stupid*: Don't go to stupid places at stupid times and do stupid things-- and now we're backing away from the specifics and taking the 50,000' view of "borders are like a social konstructz" position.
*As the rule goes, it's generally accepted that you can violate 1 of those things, but if you violate 2 you're probably going to be in trouble and if you violate all 3, you're really... REALLY going to get into trouble.
Has anyone bothered to ask why we aren't seeing any footage from all of the "legal observers" that were there observing? I've only seen a couple of short clips. It seems like they would be eager to get their message out had it gone down like they're telling us.
Ha ha ha there is now, of the guy being a violent, lunatic asshole the week before but the fucking BBC had to post it.
They also don't seem to notice that people like me think it is WORTH killing people to terminate an invasion.
At the very least, given all the bodies stacked up during prohibition, the civil rights era, the war on drugs, and the war on terror, that defending the border and/or The People from being defrauded by their own local government's collusion with foreign agents was worth more than at least 2.
I guess some lives are just worth more than others.
Again, waving Good's and Pretti's bloody shirts is an indication that the pro open borders side wanted some of their useful idiot protesters to die for the cause for propaganda. These "protests" have been openly angry, racist and protecting of some of the worst kinds of criminals.
And is immigration law really that unpopular? If it was, would you not be able to repeal most of it? I think it is not terribly unpopular, otherwise you would not be going after a strategy of making it unenforceable by abolishing the only law enforcement body authorized to enforce it, because your side sees a de facto repeal as more feasible than a de jure one.
These protests have been one of the most disgustingly disingenuous pieces of political theater I have seen in my lifetime and the writers here are neck deep in shilling for it.
The calls to abolish ICE are as crazy (or disingenuous depending on the speaker) as the calls in 2020 to abolish police in general. No enforcement of duly enacted laws nullifies the law. Why not be honest and call for a repeal of the laws you claim are immoral or unjust? Or is that much harder to sell to the voting public, so you'll settle for subterfuge?
I love libertarians opposition to police given that their entire political belief system requires police to enforce.
Yet those calls have led to lower crime rates. Bet you won't be giving any credit for it.
I believe they have led to less reporting of crimes, not less crime.
Those calls have only "led to lower crime rates" in the sense that many cities stopped reporting crime rates at all. In the cities that did report crime rates, the crime rates rose significantly.
And is immigration law really that unpopular? If it was, would you not be able to repeal most of it?
Immigration reform IS popular.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692522/surge-concern-immigration-abated.aspx
Allowing immigrants, who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children, the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time: 85% support
Allowing immigrants living in the U.S. illegally the chance to become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over a period of time: 78% support
"Mass deportations" only has 38% support.
The problem is not popular sentiment. The problem is Congress.
Polls from the last month:
Question: "Deport all immigrants here illegally"
NY Times: 55% yes
Marquette: 64% yes
CBS: 57% yes
ABC news: 56% yes
Question: "Deport illegals who arrived in the last 4 years"
NY times: 63% yes
Question : "Deport illegals here with criminal record"
NY times: 87% yes
Public sentiment is not on your side, there is a reason Trump got elected. America is not open borders. People want a sovereign country more than they want food trucks and an underclass of slave labor for nannies and lawn workers.
NY Times Poll: Have ICE tactics gone too far? 61% say yes
https://archive.is/ULMNS
So if 55% want to deport all illegal immigrants, but 61% say ICE tactics have gone too far, maybe that means that the majority of people (according to this poll) want to deport the illegal immigrants but not in the manner that ICE is doing it. Which is part of my point.
They are not "pro-criminal", they are anti-ICE, specifically, anti-ICE-tactics.
Every single legacy media outlet is running every single story they can find to argue that immigration enforcement has gone too far.And then you're going to cite a poll where people say they think, immigration enforcement has gone too far? The only problem we have is that people are in the streets assaulting federal law enforcement officers, as they try to conduct a sensible.Immigration enforcement policy
Every single legacy media outlet is running every single story they can find to argue that immigration enforcement has gone too far.
It's now just a copout to blame "legacy media" when (1) most people now get their news from social media, not legacy media, and (2) we don't need legacy media to tell us the story - the videos are ALL OUT THERE. We don't need CNN to tell us "ICE beat up a protester", we can see the video FOR OURSELVES of ICE beating up a protester.
sensible.Immigration enforcement policy
You're in the minority camp here.
You misunderstand how things have shifted for the legacy media.
Yes, anyone can see "ICE beating up a protester" -- but we can now see for ourselves the thing that CNN has kept from us -- namely, the things leading up to ICE "beating up" a protester -- and we can now see there is far more justification for ICE's actions than we've been able to see previously.
The Left has been losing ground because of this: they no longer have control over the narrative. These kinds of videos are getting out almost in real time, and all the lies of the reporters and their insurrectionist "protester" allies are getting exposed before they can get any real traction.
Ever notice how these polls always ask questions like "have ICE tactics gone too far?" but never "have local resistance to ICE gone too far?"
Be wary of people conducting polls, particularly those who have a political agenda, like all major news organizations. It is easy to manipulate polling to make it look like you have support you don't really have.
An example: the claim that "90% want a change in gun laws" to justify making them stricter, overlooking (1) there's a difference of support between generic "change" and actual proposals, and (2) some people want removal of gun laws to be among the changes in current gun laws.
abolishing the only law enforcement body authorized to enforce it
Think of it this way. There are a lot of libertarians who say "Abolish the Fed". Do those libertarians really want to get rid of all currency? Probably not. They aren't opposed to currency in general. They are opposed to an institution (the Fed) that they believe is harmful to the cause of having a sound money supply.
Getting rid of ICE does not mean getting rid of any way to enforce any immigration law. It means getting rid of the way that *ICE SPECIFICALLY* is currently trying to enforce immigration law, via raids, roving gangs, and thuggish authoritarian behavior.
They know that, but the misrepresentation the title implies is something to grab onto and cry about. Because their lives would be empty without reason comment section to cry in.
In most States, ICE enforces immigration law by showing up at the steps of court houses after local law enforcement informs them of taking illegal immigrants into custody.
Why is it different in Minnesota? Why does ICE have to resort to "raids, roving gangs, and thuggish authoritarian behavior"? It couldn't be because the local law enforcement isn't working with ICE, so ICE has to make their arrests themselves, right?
"If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law.”
This may qualify as the stupidest subhead ever. So should we repeal all criminal statutes other than capital offenses, or should we make all criminal laws capital offenses?
When you say "There ought to be a law!", it is good idea to consider if it is something worth using state violence to enforce. There is a problem eith making that judgment after therevisca law in place, and it does not consider what the effect of the law is.
I like how Reason thinks it is a solid idea to simply ignore duly passed laws we do not like.
But ONLY for illegal immigration.
Illegal, say, trespassing is worth a death sentence to them.
Cmon man. They also defend democrats from the laws.
They dont even believe in death row for serial killers. They want anarchy.
Libertarianism without responsibility is just anarchy.
"Opposition to the death penalty is equivalent to anarchy!"
So you're suggesting we should just let serial killers free? Perhaps we shouldn't even try to arrest them! Heaven forbid a police officer kill a serial killer in a botched arrest, or worse, a suspect who turns out to be innocent but had nonetheless decided to fight the police when they attempted to arrest him.
When did we reach the point where individuals think they get to decide which federal laws are enforceable and which are not? If one doesn’t like laws, there is a means of changing them. It’s happened numerous times. Showing up at a protest and interfering with cops is stupid. So is the blind partisanship rhat sees Good and Pretti as martyrs but Ashlee Babbit getting what she deserved, or vice versa. None had to die; each had a hand in the outcome. Also, CNN and perhaps others went on ICE ride alongs in the Obama years. Tom Homan ran point then as he’s doing now. As a veteran commenter here used to say, this feigned outrage smacks of principals over principles.
This has been going on since the dawn of man and this country. Good grief. Defying "federal" law is how the damn country was born.
There is a major difference between now and jan 6. There was NO immediate THREAT to ICE or anyone else in either case in Minneapolis.
You keep saying that's true, but it was clear in the first case there was immediate threat to ICE, and in this second case, who knows? At this point, the people who say "there was NO immediate THREAT" have been lying through their teeth, and when the facts come out, USUALLY they vindicate the police officers involved.
So why should we believe the propaganda coming out now, when the very people who want us to believe there was no threat are also the ones trying to assassinate ICE and target their families?
Just so we're clear, laws against murder, rape, arson, fraud, kidnapping, theft etc are all bad from a Libertarian (tm) perspective?
I think it's worse than that. It's laws against shoplifting-- pretty much all non-violent theft regardless of the amount taken, laws against vandalism, anything pretty much anyone was convicted of during January 6... you know, the other January 6, not the recent one.
Nope. All laws. They are against death row. They are against Florida's pedo laws. Everything.
In fairness, I blame myself for not getting more clarity sooner.
Also, I lament the fact that the joke about agreeing to disagree with more judicious application of hot lead loses some of its comedic effect.
"The Left is in a cycle of constant self-radicalization—the resistance to ICE creates the predicate for tragedies that are used to justify ever-more resistance and the demand for the de-facto nullification of federal immigration law in Minneapolis"
This is exactly it, and it cant be reinforced. Its good that Walz finally called state and local cops to do their jobs, and if he didnt it would have been prudent to send the military.
This is a tantrum. They lost the *democratic* election, new poll shows 55% approval of deporting ALL illegals, like 80% for deporting illegal criminals. They dont have the public on their side, they dont have the election on their side, so they are tard raging at having the law enforced, to get some sort of new george floyd, to generate more public sentiment to allow them to tard rage harder, with the end goal of not having the law enforced.
This kind of behavior has to be absolutely stopped, cannot be allowed to continue in any way. Similar to the 2020 riots. Should have been stamped out much sooner, we consistently allow the left to tantrum and destroy shit when they dont get their way. That cant go on
Maybe you should stop regarding them as children, and start recognizing them as fellow citizens, equivalent in legal standing to you.
ill stop treating them like children when they stop acting like it. You dont get to say the law is fascism, then put on your resist fascism shirt, then destroy shit because you dont like the law.
Those kinds of people aren't participating in society in a healthy or fair way, and solutions either involve ostracizing, punishment of some sort (so many of these protestors should have been arrested), etc. They also shouldnt be allowed to vote either. If your immediate recourse to the law is "its fascist so I get to burn shit down" then you should lose your right to vote, because you clearly arent a good faith participant in the agreed upon system.
You act like a kid, you go to the kids table
So in your view, how do "adults" protest? Do they just quietly stand in the corner and wave a sign? What good do you think that does?
I am not advocating for violence or vandalism. But I have no problem with rowdy aggressive protesting. You only get attention if you make some noise.
You aren't the "protest police", and instead of trying to force everyone to behave in the way that you think they ought to (how paternalistic and authoritarian of you), perhaps you should accept people for who they are and learn to live together with them.
Like those "mostly peaceful but fiery protests" of 2020, right?
One reason I didn't consider Jan 6 to be a big deal, was because I saw the kinds of things that Democrats supported in the year leading up to it -- including the burning down of businesses in cities across the nation to the order of at least $2 billion in damages -- and saw that Jan 6th was small potatoes in comparison. Riots for me but not for thee!
Being rowdy is one thing, but these "protestors" are actively impeding law enforcement, and that's when one traverses the boundary between "aggressive protesting" and outright illegal and violent behavior.
"Do they just quietly stand in the corner and wave a sign?"
That worked for MLK and Gandhi.
We have accepted people for who they are, and that’s why they gotta go.
How paternalistic and authoritarian of you to insist that we’re not seeing what we’re seeing.
Asshole.
Reminder. Jeff thinks trespassing is a capital offense when conservatives do it.
We know enough to not flee the scene when police try to arrest us (Good) or physically intervene when they try to arrest someone else.
Yes, they act like children. They pretend that there shouldn’t be any consequences when they openly violate the law, and take on the police. It’s something that most guys learn as teenagers. Good, as a white woman, may not have learned this because of her sex and race. But that’s on her. Pretti had no excuses.
Maybe stop advocating for persecuting minorities, for police state violence, for masked getapos in the streets, and for Capitol building insurrections that want to hang the VP and overturn an election then.
You cry babies wouldn't even let a man peacefully kneel, let a beer company send a 6 pack to a trans person, or let Cracker Barrel change their logo LOL.
The poll numbers are dependent on who did the poll. It ranges from 30-60% of people who want to deport illegals.
What percentage of people do not believe they should be doing it this way? What percentage of people believe they should be arresting people at a court house with active asylum cases? Igorning due process? Ignoring court orders? Cancelling previous protections? Want a path for dreamers? Would deport a person that's been here for 10-20 years with NO criminal record?
"Maybe stop advocating for persecuting minorities"
You think standard immigration law is persecuting minorities? Sounds like you are part of the problem bud
Leftists like jeff are inherently racist. Plenty of whites and European people have also been deported. But jeff is such a racist he thinks only minorities do.
Law is certainly backed up ultimately by force, but that's not at all necessarily lethal force. And I always remember Leo Strauss's verdict on the Weimar government [approximately] that it presented the sorry spectacle of Justice unable, or unwilling, to use the sword.
And we know how that story finished up.
Deadly force is always the last level of defense. Good appeared to the ICE agents to be trying to run one of them over, in order to escape arrest. Pretti, wearing a gun, tried to physically prevent officers from arresting a woman. Of course, they were using their numbers to take him down.
Never again should anyone try to persuade the stupid person with reasons. Reasons fall on deaf ears. Facts that contradict one's prejudgment simply need not be believed. More than that, becoming aware of that is the basis for attack because that awareness undermines the self-satisfaction of the stupid and exposes his utter subordination to power.
If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law.
I'm also shocked at the number of people who think dying over a state law was like, totally worth it.
vagrancy gone wild in San Fran, Seattle, Portland, and Denver ... it's so beautiful
OK, since the left has decided that they can pick and choose which laws they want to obey, perhaps the rest of us should follow suit?
Funny - the one thread that is directly concerned with the subject of TJJ2000's monomania, and yet he's nowhere to be seen. I do hope he's not accidentally overdosed on haloperidol.
Indeed. Very nice to see *obvious* reality being stated once in a while in articles themselves.
Could use a lot more obvious-reality over pointless demon-crap filling sheeple minds.
Lots of people predicted that it would be impossible to deport 10 million people without some ugly incidents. So let's absorb the lesson and wonder what would happen if the government tried to confiscate 400 million guns.
Decent article.
And I can't think of a better reason for those 'Guns' to be used than for National Defenses (yes; including invasion control)
NOR a WORSE reason for those 'Guns' to be used than THEFT of rightfully earned property for no other reason than others envy and feeling of self-entitled-too (i.e. wealth distribution) which goes HAND-IN-HAND with feeling self-entitled to invite-themselves into someone else's nation uninvited.
*All* of it goes back to criminal-minds. 'Conquer and Consume' someone else's greener pasture and when things get bad move-on to the next. Immigrants home-nation is a MESS for a reason and it wasn't some Martian invasion that did it.
Or summarized in a big-picture.
The USA is going through transformation-pains from a
- *Constitutional* USA that ensures Individual Liberty & Ensures Justice for All
to
- A [D]emon-crap [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire
...by the influx of ORIGINAL [Na]tional So[zi]alist minds trying to escape their own self-made reality.
80%+ of all immigrants vote(when able)/support the [D]emon-craps [Na]tional So[zi]alist "New Deal" for the USA *over* a *Constitutional* Republic.
How ironic that a magazine called Reason has so little reason and so much emotional gibberish. While the author has many lapses of reason some of the main ones are:
(1) "Libertarians have long been in favor of abolishing ICE." This is not true. Maybe some, but not all. What is the percentage of libertarians that want to abolish ICE? I think it's very small. Libertarians do not want to pay for the free social services for anyone who walks into the USA.
(2) Using the 2 recent killings to advocate abolishing an entire agency is ridiculous. That is a tactic used by the left. There are 22,000 people that work for ICE and the bad actions of a few do not reflect the actions of an entire agency. Instead of saying that those few agents need to be fired or retrained, he says that the entire agency needs to be removed. That is complete lack of reason. It is a logical fallacy called "Hasty Generalization". I'm surprised the editors allow such lack of reason.
(1) "Libertarians have long been in favor of abolishing ICE." This is not true. Maybe some, but not all. What is the percentage of libertarians that want to abolish ICE? I think it's very small. Libertarians do not want to pay for the free social services for anyone who walks into the USA.
It's rather overt and dishonest hedging, sophistry, "nose in the tent", Mott-and-Bailey or whatever you want to call it.
Again even Milton Friedman was pretty clear about "You can't have open borders and a welfare state." Very, *very* many of the anti-immigration people were very, *very* vocal about getting rid of or even just rolling back welfare, universal healthcare, union protections, wage laws, etc., etc. right alongside scaling back ICE.
And again, they were called racist Nazis. Even with open calls to punch them in the face and celebrations for shooting them in the back in public.
These libertarians didn't leave the precepts of individual liberty and small government, Reason left them to go chase after ICE vehicles, defend looters and arsonists, castrate children, and foment violence.
More pointedly, they're still doing it.
All law state or federal laws are backed up with the threat of violence. Societies grant a degree of this to governments in exchange for safety and security.
The illegal immigration situation has been brewing for decades. Sanctuary cities and states are openly violating federal law.
The federal government often exceeds their power and takes power away from states that should be the purview of the state and not the federal government. Immigration, however is one of the small list of items that is actually the responsibility of the federal government and not the state government.
The proper method to change immigration law is not to protest the at the very lowest level where enforcement takes place, but to protest where the decisions are made in the legislature.
Illegal Immigration enforcement is selectively complained about and used as a political cudgel.
Looking at our last 4 president, comparing single years, Obama by far deported more illegals than Bush, Trump or Biden. Obama's largest year was approx. 432,228 deported during his 1st year of his second term.
Both Obama and Bush on average deported more illegal immigrants than either Trump or Biden did on average.
Biden by an extremely large margin deported the fewest illegal immigrants with a low point of approx. 59,011 deported during his 1st year.
The estimated number of illegal entries are also a factor.
The lowest number of entries occurred the first year of Trump's 1st term at approx. 526,901, this incidentally was also the least amount of difference between the number deported and the number of illegal entries at approx. 406,997.
The highest number of entries occurred during Biden's 3rd year maxing out at approx 3,201,144 illegal entries and a difference of approx. 1,671,862.
The facts are that Trump has deported fewer illegal immigrants in a single year than either Obama (deportation king), Bush (second place), but more than Biden (fourth place).
That Biden (Illegal entry king) in a single year overwhelmingly allowed more illegal immigrants into the country that any other president, with Bush (second place) coming in a distant second, Obama (third place) narrowly battling Trump (fourth place) for third place due to a rise in illegal entries during Trump's 3rd year during his first term.
Trump appears to have effected a reduction in the number illegal entries, but has not deport anywhere close near to match the hyperbole (either his or the media).
The facts are simple, that while more people are be deported than during the Biden years, but less illegal immigrants were deported in 2025 than any other year during the Bush, Obama, or Trump's 1st term. The only exceptions would be Bush's 2nd year in his first term and Trump's 4th year in his 1st term, however the numbers are so extremely close that they are effectively the same.
I want powers that should reside at the state level to be returned to the states and I want states and cities to stop interfering with powers that are legitimately federal.
Illegal immigration does not simply effect the city or state, but effect the entire country. You can't simply say that these sanctuary cities can rot under their own unlawful policies, because the census counts people, not citizens. The number of electoral seats are apportioned not by the number of citizens, but the number of people including illegal immigrants. Federal funding is granted based on number of people including illegal immigrants, not the number of citizens.
If states controlled immigration, then a state could allow a completely open border (without any vetting) to dramatically increase their population, increase their power, number of representatives, amount of federal dollars relative to other states. With the agreement between the states, the people could then migrate and spread to other states from a single open border (without any vetting) and dramatically alter the country.
For completely open borders (without any vetting) to work, you would need to accept the risk that a percentage of immigrants would come with nefarious intentions. Then there is the problem with the percentage of immigrants who are coming to freeload. You could remove the incentives to reduce the number of freeloaders, but our feckless legislators one either side don't seem sincere to address illegal immigration or entitlements, but rather seem to intend to keep the arguments around to browbeat their bases into voting against the other side.
We are a nation state and as a nation state, we have borders. Nearly every other country on the planet, enforces their borders and requires people to enter legally. While I admit that our legal process is a complete disaster and has been mismanaged like everything else the government gets involved with, we still need to know who is entering into the country.
Fix the process to enter in legally, reduce the expense to enter in legally and reduce the time. Streamline the process and make it efficient. At the same time fix the incentives. We incentivize entering the country illegally and punish entering the country legally.
What we saw during the Biden years was extremely close to an active promotion to increase illegal immigration. It is the exact opposite of what should happen. While I disagree with Trump on a whole variety of issues and dislike his delivery, He did dramatically reduce the number of people attempting to cross the border illegally.
I would like to see a less heavy-handed direct confrontation with sanctuary cities, but I'm not surprised that the confrontation occurred. I would prefer eliminating federal funding for sanctuary cities. I would prefer adding citizenship to the census and apportioning electoral seats and funding based on citizens. I would prefer mandatory voter ID laws.
Of course this requires our do-nothing (except spend money) legislature to actually do their job. It's a difficult because every one knows that the legislature is worthless.
Why has there been more and more executive orders? It's because the legislature is worthless and will not accept any responsibility. They cede power to the executive branch on a regular basis, or leave the everything below the 50K foot level to the un-elected bureaucrats (deep state) in the agencies.
All this and you managed to not mention Israel, Zionism, and Gaza even once.
I think you've learned to hide your warts quite well, Uomo.
“Social truce” not “social contract”! Brilliant!
We don’t agree to be governed by the state, we acquiesce (so long as it’s tolerable).
Im willing to accept federal agents' guns going off in the context of dealing with someone interfering and resisting arrest during a lawful law enforcement action where violence is expected.
Sometimes its the police that get killed. 229 shot in 2025. 31 killed. At least in the US, policing is more deadly than protesting.
He took a loaded weapon to a civil war with the intent of participating in that war. Good riddance.
The author says "If enforcing a law isn't worth killing someone over, it probably shouldn't be a law."
In the center of the town where I live we have a 20mph speed limit.
Is it worth killing over?
Should it be the law?
Proper government uses deterrence or retaliatory force as opposed to coercion or initiatory force. The first is moral the latter is not. The problem is coercive government. The solution is to prohibit government coercion.