Bovino Put Out To Pasture

Plus: Vance gets Kamala'd, positioning aircraft carriers near Iran, and more...

Unwinding the damage: "I am sending [border czar] Tom Homan to Minnesota tonight," said President Donald Trump yesterday. "He has not been involved in that area, but knows and likes many of the people there. Tom is tough but fair, and will report directly to me."

("Separately, a major investigation is going on with respect to the massive 20 Billion Dollar, Plus, Welfare Fraud that has taken place in Minnesota, and is at least partially responsible for the violent organized protests going on in the streets," he continued. Good! Welfare fraud in Minnesota needs to be investigated and stamped out.)

Greg Bovino was removed from his post as the guy in charge of the immigration enforcement campaign in Minnesota and the public face of the operation. Some of his agents will go with him. Word has circulated that Bovino plans to retire soon. (Translation: He is being put out to pasture.)

Saving face: "Mr. Bovino is a wonderful man and he's a great professional," White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said, rather diplomatically. "He is going to very much continue to lead Customs and Border Patrol [sic] throughout and across the country. Mr. Homan will be the main point of contact on the ground in Minneapolis."

Wow. Per @priscialva, DHS has suspended Gregory Bovino's access to his social media accounts effective immediately. He spent yesterday responding to people who were criticizing him and raising questions about his unverified claims about Pretti.

— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) January 27, 2026

But the GOP backlash has been mounting, with the killing of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti by federal law enforcement serving as a galvanizing moment. "Officials who rush to judgment before all the facts are known undermine public trust and the law-enforcement mission," said Sen. John Curtis (R–Utah) on X. "I disagree with Secretary Noem's premature DHS response, which came before all the facts were known and weakened confidence. I will be working with a bipartisan group of senators to demand real oversight and transparency, including supporting calls from @RandPaul for leaders of these operations to testify, so trust can be restored and justice served."

"[Trump] is a dealmaker, and he's getting bad advice right now," was how Oklahoma's Gov. Kevin Stitt framed it, on CNN. Maximally conciliatory.

"If I were President Trump, I would almost think about, OK, if the mayor and the governor are going to put our ICE officials in harm's way and there's a chance of losing more, you know, innocent lives or whatever, then maybe go to another city and let the people of Minneapolis decide, 'Do we want to continue to have all of these illegals?'" asked Rep. James Comer (R–Ky.) on Fox. Immigration officials might be "better received" elsewhere.

Republicans know that Trump is highly sensitive to falling public opinion. They know he always needs a fall guy. The strategy seems pretty clear: Give him space to walk back the campaign, give him outs. Trump doesn't worry about seeming inconsistent; he worries about people disliking him.

Of course, there was never a way to do soft and gentle immigration enforcement. But I think many Republicans—both voters and legislators—expected more proceduralism, less of a show.

It's impressive that immigration enforcement in Minnesota managed to go so poorly that even Republican allies of Trump feel it's worth it to speak out. "Immigration, broadly, as one veteran senator granted anonymity to speak candidly told me over the weekend, is for the GOP what health care is for Democrats—a 'home game,'" reports Politico's Jonathan Martin. "Yet with viral images of Americans being shot in broad daylight replacing migrants stampeding across the country's border, that advantage is quickly dissipating."

Or, to put a finer point on it:

They're gonna take Kristi Noem out back only for her to see a dog holding a shotgun https://t.co/ZVTK9lx48H

— Armand Domalewski (@ArmandDoma) January 27, 2026

---

Scenes from New York: My baby son, Solomon, was operated on yesterday. It went well. Many readers reached out, and some of you even took the time to pray for us. I just wanted to say thank you, you have no idea how much it means to me. I'll go back on maternity leave soon to give him my full attention as he recovers and possibly moves toward being released from the NICU.

---

QUICK HITS

• J.D. Vance is getting Kamala'd:

JD you're getting Kamala'd right now, becoming the face of a toxic policy.

— Zaid Jilani (@ZaidJilani) January 25, 2026

• "The aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln and its accompanying warships have entered the Middle East, U.S. officials said, giving President Trump additional offensive and defensive capabilities should he choose to move forward with an attack on Iran," reports The Wall Street Journal. "Though Trump has indicated that he is still deciding on military action, the ships' arrival comes amid a significant buildup of combat power in the region….'We have a big force going toward Iran. I'd rather not see anything happen, but we're watching them very closely,' Trump said Thursday."
• Inside possible coercion cases in Canada's assisted suicide program. My pro-lifery is showing, but I have a very hard time trusting the state to be good arbiters of who qualifies to make decisions to live or die. They have their own incentives, don't they?
• Israel has received the very last body of the hostages taken by Hamas on October 7, 2023. The corpse of Ran Gvili, a 24-year-old special forces policeman, was finally brought back to his family. "The return of Gvili's remains is expected to mark the end of the first phase of the U.S.-backed ceasefire in the war in Gaza," notes NPR. "It could also pave the way for another big step. The Israeli government said it would allow Gaza's border crossing with Egypt to reopen again for Palestinians to enter and exit."
• Curious about how the NRA will position itself in the wake of the Alex Pretti shooting:

This sentiment from the First Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California is dangerous and wrong.

Responsible public voices should be awaiting a full investigation, not making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens. https://t.co/9fMz3CL29o

— NRA (@NRA) January 25, 2026

• More skewering of the terrible tweet:

Carrying a firearm is not a death sentence, it's a Constitutionally protected God-given right, and if you don't understand this you have no business in law enforcement or government. https://t.co/pWPNo9dmLO

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) January 25, 2026

• Huge:

Ye, fka Kanye West, takes out a full-page in the Wall Street Journal to apologize to the Black community, and for antisemitism:

"I lost touch with reality" pic.twitter.com/Po8s4gNz5P

— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) January 26, 2026

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Bovino Put Out To Pasture

Oh, Elizabeth.

[Fist of Etiquette]

My baby son, Solomon, was operated on yesterday. It went well.

NEVER HAD ANY DOUBT.

[Quicktown Brix]

Great news!

[Idaho-Bob]

Very good news!

[Bubba Jones]

I too am praying for Solomon, but it is a bit too "on brand" for a libertarian media company to keep her working on the day her baby is getting surgery.

Being libertarian doesn't *require* being callous assholes.

I am aware that some people use work as an outlet when they are feeling overwhelmed and helpless. There isn't much for a parent to *do* while their baby is in the NICU and is too sick to be held.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Im just happy you didnt make a Solomon split the baby joke.

[mad.casual]

Of course, antisemitic commentators gotta anti-Semite.

Of the 110% Liz gives, we aren't owed even 10%.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Who is anti semetic?

[ML (now paying)]

The AZ in Jesse's handle stands for Auschwitz.

[mad.casual]

I thought he picked it up closer to the time the Azov Division became conspicuous on the international stage? 🙂

[damikesc]

I'm not seeing the anti-Semitism in referring to the Biblical story of Solomon.

[mad.casual]

If you can't insinuate someone making jokes about cutting Semitic babies in half in front of a mother whose infant, named Solomon, just got out of surgery is a ghoulish Nazi, even in jest, who can you insinuate is an inhuman, ghoulish Nazi, even in jest?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely laugh at a well-used racial epithet, consider the "24 hour rule" more of a guideline than a rule, and have even coined a dead baby joke a time or two. But if you think it's all fun and games, can't read the jokes or the room, and can't roll with the punches of loose insinuations, maybe you aren't the fun-loving eclectics you think you are.

[Sailor1989]

MASSIVE leap there casual. Jesse's history shows he is no antisemite. A bad joke does not equal "qhoulish nazi".

[mad.casual]

A bad joke does not equal "qhoulish nazi".

You're not convincing me that you understand how jokes work.

[Use the Schwartz]

Sending good vibes, Liz.

[Horatio Cornblower]

Very glad to hear the good news.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Yes, and once he is fully recovered, Liz needs to get her family out the hellhole that is NYC.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

Good news. 🙂

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Best of wishes for Solomon and the whole family.

[Eeyore]

For a second there, I thought this was about the failure of another brand of lab grown meat. Bovino is a great brand name for fake beef.

[Quicktown Brix]

Good call

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

But no grazing jokes?

[Use the Schwartz]

"Bovino Put Out To Pasture"

I thought it was chuckleworthy, especially in light of the lame and humorless headlines of late.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I am sending [border czar] Tom Homan to Minnesota tonight...

He'll make sure no one crosses state lines.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

But why is CBP in a border state?? - Autumn

[Idaho-Bob]

That was ridiculous. I see CBP trucks in CDA, Idaho. Fairly often and for years.

[mad.casual]

And, again, back in the day, Reason was "Why do we have CBP 100 mi. inland (when they should be at the border)?" but, really, they were trailing and leaving off the parenthetical because they were fanatical lunatics.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

They even cross through Spokane.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

"Officials who rush to judgment before all the facts are known undermine public trust and the law-enforcement mission," said Sen. John Curtis (R–Utah) on X.

Seems like Sen. John Curtis is also rushing to judgment.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Welfare fraud in Minnesota needs to be investigated and stamped out.

Hear! Hear! And it should be investigated without regard to the skin color of the Somalian perpetrating it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But I thought we are allowed to persecute pale-faced African Americans.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...maybe go to another city and let the people of Minneapolis decide, 'Do we want to continue to have all of these illegals?'"

Check that man's bank account for daycare money.

[MasterThief]

A dumb stance. "Political partisans are getting excessively insurrectiony and terroristic so we need to stop enforcing the law."
No, it doesn't mean that the federal government needs to back off. It means the MN government needs to stop permitting and encouraging lawlessness.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

If Minnesota cut themselves off the federal tit, id be fine with it. As long as they control their state borders to keep the illegals there.

Since illegals are all profit, they should be fine.

[mad.casual]

[tilts hand]

If I wanted to live near Somalia, I'd move to the HOA. If you can't even take care of your own children without massive corruption, I'm dubious about the rigorous enforcement of other imaginary social constructs.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

I would rather just imprison/exile/execute all the Marxists, then do finish deporting the illegals without interference. Which should be the. Idea for all 50 states.

There should never ever be compromise with malignant, mendacious, moronic, Marxist monsters.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Let the people of South Carolina decide - do we want to have all these slaves?

Let the people of the University of Alabama decide - do we want to have all these black students?

Let the citizens of CHOP/CHAZ decide - do we want to have all this autonomy?

[Idaho-Bob]

Let the guy in Bonner County Idaho decide - Do I want to manufacture MG's, suppressors, SBR's, etc?

[Quicktown Brix]

Yes.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Sounds good to me. And at the rate Spokane and Washington Stare are being communized by democrat filth, I may have to have there soon.

Or maybe Trump will put Washington under martial law, and clean out all the Marxists.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

My state's rights are speech; your state's (claimed) rights are fascist MAGA patriarchal Nazi racist oppression.

[mad.casual]

Borders are just imaginary social constructs until I don't want you here.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yet with viral images of Americans being shot in broad daylight replacing migrants stampeding across the country's border, that advantage is quickly dissipating.

And you guys thought corporate media had lost its foothold.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Separately, a major investigation is going on with respect to the massive 20 Billion Dollar, Plus, Welfare Fraud that has taken place in Minnesota, and is at least partially responsible for the violent organized protests going on in the streets"

What? Does anyone else know about this?

[Mickey Rat]

So we are suggesting that the violent organized protests are in, at least part, support of continuing massive welfare fraud?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Maybe. But we definitely are suggesting that creating a media storm about immigration enforcement has memory-holed the welfare scam story.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Apparently the call with Waltz changed the strategy of MPD. As they were allowed to be deployed to stop leftist riots.

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/2016021103295017276

Maybe trump mentioned to Waltz that his cabinet was involved with the organized insurrection?

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/minneapolis-signal-gate-alleged-anti-ice-low-level-insurgency-command-exposed-messaging

Meanwhile leftist coworkers of Pretti show their true empathy by begging for money to be sent to them.

https://x.com/MaxNordau/status/2015682301460459659

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Meanwhile we keep seeing leftist retards here claim trump and ICE enforcement is the issue when violence isnt happening in over 40 states. Claiming trump is targeting blue areas, see sarc the retard. Reality...

Kevin Bass
@kevinnbass
23% of all ICE arrests occur in Texas

2.2% occur in Minnesota

A 10-fold difference

Yet far more ICE-related violence is happening in Minnesota

Why? Because Democrats are promoting and provoking violence in Minnesota

Democrats do not hate violence

Violence is their goal

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

O'Keefe is being threatened by these peaceful legal observers for the act of reporting.

James O'Keefe
@JamesOKeefeIII
URGENT UPDATE: I’ve never experienced anything quite like today in my life. I’ve interacted with the Cartel and have witnessed some crazy things in the desert in ‘24. But what strikes me is how organized these agitators in Minneapolis are. They have spotters everywhere in the city and suburbs, on street corners, even 30 minutes away from downtown. They have people at hotels that work with them and signal to them which made it making it difficult for us to lose our tail once my cover was blown. Usually I lose a tail. Not this time. We switched locations THREE times. I recorded and posted this while leaving Wayzata, while they were STILL surveilling. We all agreed we must make the threats public ASAP, even if we had people still in the field with the hidden cams.

Earlier around noon, while
@camhigby
released his report on the Signal threads, I was inside what appeared to be a fully autonomous Zone. No police presence. The police were told to leave. I identified myself as Press and they said they will kill Press and will not let me leave. My skin was fully covered because it was so cold. But because they couldn’t verify who I was, they screamed and started throwing ice bottles at us. One hit,
@SKRUCHTENMMA
, a marine who was with me. They patted him down like THEY were the authorities, attempting to confiscate any weapons. They were set to destroy our vehicle before we even got to it. I will have a full video report shortly.

But the bigger picture here is more important. I am angry. But not at the agitators. I find myself already angry at the people who don’t understand what we’re dealing with and will do nothing about it. When I got to the suburbs I felt like I was in a simulation.

I believe the American people need to wake up. This moment is a warning about where we’re headed. Fear pushes people to care only about their money and their families—I get it. But when fear turns inward, when self-preservation and greed replace moral courage, evil goes unchallenged. And history shows that what we ignore today will come for all of us tomorrow.

Ironically and incredibly, I see that these Communists do not fear death in the same way most good people seem to. The only thing the Communists fear is exposure itself. And that’s good news because it may be our only option.

I’m dead serious about investigating the prosecutors themselves if they don’t hold these Minnesota fraudsters and violent mobsters accountable for what they’re doing. Stay tuned for the videos.

[Mickey Rat]

O'Keefe is not a legitimate reporter to the "press freedom" crowd as he tends to embarrass progressives.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Death to Kulaks!"

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

they screamed and started throwing ice bottles at us. One hit,

Lefties throw like girls.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

But to lighten the mood, highly intelligent awful tries picking up flashbang to throw back. Hilarity ensues.

https://x.com/KimKatieUSA/status/2015801256795885712

[Minadin]

LARPers.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Needz more blood.

[Murray Rothtard]

wow. thank you so much. she's in so much pain and i'm such a sick fuck that watching it brings me joy. thanks for spreading the good feels to all us subhuman scum.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Did you cry for your retarded ally doing something dumb?

Always amuses me watching the least charitable retards on the planet use empathy as a weapon when you've shown none.

Everything is a weapon to you retards.

Just yesterday you were angry about DHS detaining a citizen harboring 2 illegal pedophiles. Where's your empathy for the children?

[Idaho-Bob]

Crying "MEDIC!" is more evidence that this an organized event, complete with trained medical services. She's an enemy combatant. Nothing more.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Sure. The self-induced pain of a cosplay retard means we have to defund all law enforcement, right?

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

No, you're a Retard, Retard. Fuck off and die.

[mad.casual]

she's in so much pain and i'm such a sick fuck that watching it brings me joy.

So, if picking up a live grenade would've brought about whatever end to immigration action you desire, would you encourage them to do so?

Most of the rest of us have seen America's Funniest Home Videos, Jackass, Ridiculousness, Professional Soccer, etc. and objectively recognize that when you play "Let's Make A Deal" sometimes people win goats.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Come on, man. Most women and Democrats don't get cave man humor. Or really any humor.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

I’m having trouble telling if you’re a sadist or a masochist. Could you please clarify?

[rswallen]

Never heard of schadenfreude before?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Well, you ARE a sick fuck. But I doubt you or this dumb bitch learned a goddamned thing from this (hilarious) incident.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

The deal
1. MN looses all federal funding
2. No non profits in MN Wil be recognized. All entities in MN will be switched to for profit, including universities and churches.

[Eeyore]

Better deal.
1. We end all federal funding of all of the programs in question entirely

[damikesc]

That should be done post haste and inform the courts that the executive is not obligated to facilitate fraud and the executive, in fact, will not facilitate fraud.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Super dream deal. All marxists in Minnesota are rounded up and summarily executed. Then we denaturalize any Somalian or other immigrant who gained residency/citizenship through fraud. And lastly, all illegals re deported.

THAT will solve the problem.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We have a big force going toward Iran. I'd rather not see anything happen, but we're watching them very closely...

So we're not doing Greenland now?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

The war ended. It was a terrible war.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

All 30 seconds of it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Did we all die again?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

At least twice.

[Spiritus Mundi]

I got better.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Shut up and get on the cart.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

I don't want to go on the cart.

[Fist of Etiquette]

JD you're getting Kamala'd right now, becoming the face of a toxic policy.

Well let's hope Vance can string a few non-nonsensical sentences together to get himself out of that.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

If JD wont do what democrats want, they will shame him good.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Odd response from Reeeeason that it has been discovered local government officals have been organizing the obstruction of ICE via Signal chat groups.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

But the media isnt reporting on it, so let the democrats win. Welcome to reason. Where narratives are valued over the truth.

[ML (now paying)]

Reason doesn't look at anything unless it first hits the front page of the New York Times.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Sounds like treason. Better round them all up right away.

[mad.casual]

Yeah, one rather cogent post isn't quite the same as stepping up to babble drunken nonsense on behalf of a dementia-addled nonsense-babbling administration.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

' the killing of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti by federal law enforcement'

For fucks sake. Liz, please stop the dramatized reporting bullshit. Why does it matter what Pretti did for a living? Do you really personally feel more sad because he was a noble nurse, and not just a regular HVAC repairman?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Did you see MSNow is even photoshopping his picture to make him look better? The reverse Rogan.

[damikesc]

They failed in the effort.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Did they photoshop the dress off of him?

[Ajsloss]

#MarylandDad

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

For fucks sakes EHS, stop the reductionism of HVAC Repairman. There is nothing "just a" or "regular" about a tradesman.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Most of my male relatives are/were in the trades. And most of them (and I) think of people in the trades as "regular". That is a complement, not an insult.

[ML (now paying)]

Most of the trades have gotten so technical now that you have to know way more about applied engineering and physics than your average journalist could ever understand. For example classical mechanics, materials science, heat transfer and thermodynamics, electricity and magnetism.

Plumbers and pipefitters need to understand fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, materials science, basic chemistry (corrosion, scaling), in order to diagnose and repair pressure loss in pipes, flow rates, thermal expansion, and chemical compatibility of pipes and fluids.

Welders have to know materials science, metallurgy, heat transfer and understand structural mechanics to understand diagnose and repair heat-affected zones, stress concentrations, fatigue cracking and weld procedure qualification.

Carpenters and framers need to understand structural engineering principles and materials science (wood behavior) to calculate load paths, shear vs. bending, creep and moisture movement and code tables that come from physics, not guesswork

Trades are the most honest form of applied physics there is. Which is why when in ten years all the contract lawyers, financial analysts, HR workers, accountants, coders, researchers and middle management have their pink slips, these guys will be riding to work in their limos.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

As long as those limos are electric since we know the progtards will ban ICE (haha) by then for our own good.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Never going to see "nursing student Laken Riley burtually raped and murdered by illegal immigrant" here at Reeeason.

[HorseConch]

Or "nursing student Laken Riley brutally raped and murdered by illegal immigrant who was arrested and released multiple times by sanctuary state and/or city of NY" here at Reeeeeeason.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"...The death of a heavily armed man interfering with an arrest..."

Fixed

[Eeyore]

After COVID I have to ask myself if a nurse or doctor is one of the evil ones who supported vaccine passports and all that other nonsense - in which case it's ok with me if they die. Tainted profession. I have yet to meet an HVAC professional I had these same thoughts about.

[windycityattorney]

Put your money where your mouth is Eeyore and promise to never go see a doctor or nurse again. They are tainted and deserve to die, after all.

No exceptions.

Perhaps your plumber can help if you ever need to clear a clogged artery.

[ML (now paying)]

Fuck you're a retard, Kirkland.

You’re trying to turn skepticism about mandates, passports, and firings into an absolute so you don’t have to address the substance of the concern.

Eeyore can question how a profession behaved during a crisis while still recognizing the value of medical care. Those are not mutually exclusive.

[Eeyore]

It did make it obvious just how hard it is to find a good healthcare provider.

The large hospital networks sometimes seem closer in structure to organized crime than anything else.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Is this legal advice?

[windycityattorney]

Yes it's legal advice. My advice is for you, Eeyore, Sevo, MichaelP and XY and a few others to refuse to be treated by the medical covid conspiracy complex (which necessarily includes ALL medical staff at all facilities) ever again.

I hear Alex Jones has some supplements for whatever ails you for sale but this is not an endorsement - just a friendly suggestion.

And there is ivermectin, in horse paste form, for whatever Jones' can't help it.

Take it in copious amounts even when you are not ill.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Walz +10

It will be good when you’re executed as a Marxist traitor. I may even volunteer to put you through the wood chipper myself.

[Marshal]

OP comment clearly noting the criticism is to a limited subset:

After COVID I have to ask myself if a nurse or doctor is one of the evil ones who supported vaccine passports and all that other nonsense

Idiot comment pretending the criticism is of all medical personnel:

refuse to be treated by the medical covid conspiracy complex (which necessarily includes ALL medical staff at all facilities) ever again

They're just not that bright.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

How about we ignore you and all nanny state doctors when it comes to advice about how to organize and manage a free society.

You can fuck off and take your totalitarian ass to North Korea. I bet people there REALLY follow government rules.

[damikesc]

How about the nurses making videos about hurting Republicans they are supposed to be treating?

That OK with you?

The social trust is dying a death. The Left is causing it.

[mad.casual]

But if there aren't any COVID Tiktok dancing videos, how else are you going to know that he was a hero?

[damikesc]

Not an ICU nurse for several months now according to his parents. But he WAS behaving very oddly.

And he did erase his entire social media history the day before he got himself shot.

[Quicktown Brix]

And he did erase his entire social media history the day before he got himself shot.

I challenge you to try to verify this for yourself.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Inside possible coercion cases in Canada's assisted suicide program.

Look, the true north, strong and free, cannot survive a bunch of burdens to the state.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

No worries. China will soon take care of that, eh?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Yes, Carney will likely turn governance of Canada over to the ChiComs at the first opportunity.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Of course, there was never a way to do soft and gentle immigration enforcement. But I think many Republicans—both voters and legislators—expected more proceduralism, less of a show.'

Sure. Are these Republicans the same ones who have consistently rolled over when progressives Resisted! on every issue for the past 30 years? Maybe some people finally realized that (1) it takes a degree of energetic confrontation to succeed and (2) the progressives actually seek public confrontation as a tactic.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Poor Damon and sullum as 8th circuit removes injunction against DHS.

We accessed and viewed the same videos the district court did. What they show is observers and protestors engaging in a wide range of conduct, some of it peaceful but much of it not. They also show federal agents responding in various ways. Even the named plaintiffs’ claims involve different conduct, by different officers, at different times, in different places, in response to different behavior. These differences mean that there are no “questions of law or fact common to the class,” that would allow the court to decide all their claims in “one stroke.”

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mnd.229758/gov.uscourts.mnd.229758.113.0_2.pdf

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Cam Higby follows up his infiltration of the ice watch signal group showing leftists fleeing like cockroaches after exposure. Rushing to get out of the state and country. One responding "we are so fucked."

https://x.com/camhigby/status/2015562523819295067

[Spiritus Mundi]

They are not fucked. Nothing is going to happen to them.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

So youre saying we are the ones who will be fucked... damnit. Fair though.

[Spiritus Mundi]

*continued to be fucked.

Us metaphorically. A bunch of women and children literally as we can no longer deport illegal rapists because that would be facism or something.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

Andy Ngo also has a report about getting inside their Signal chat. He’s numero uno on Antifa’s hit list.

https://www.ngocomment.com/p/i-got-inside-the-signal-chats-used

In recent weeks, numerous Antifa-linked revolutionary anarchist collectives have promoted organizing guides that explicitly instruct extremists on how to carry out obstructionist campaigns. These materials consistently recommend the encrypted messaging app Signal as the primary tool for coordination. Alex Pretti and Renee Good, two militant leftist activists shot dead this month, may have been part of these groups.

What are militants saying to one another inside these chats?

The prevailing mood inside these groups is one of distrust and paranoia. Public scrutiny, particularly from users on X, has focused increasing attention on the role these Signal chats play in coordinating obstructionist conspiracies. Nearly all users operate under aliases. Administrators are actively purging participants they suspect to be “right-wingers” or federal agents. Auto-deleting messages are enabled by default to destroy evidence.

“Right wingers are trying to get into many chats right now,” warned an administrator using the moniker “Moss.” “Never put anything in Signal you would not want read back in court. No Signal group can fully protect you from unfriendly eyes.”

“Under this admin, anything could be illegal,” warned one member. Another responded: “It’s like when my parents divorced.”

Soon after, users accused one group of being fully compromised and urged members to delete the chat entirely.

My time inside these chats was limited, but it offered insight into the internal dynamics of these groups. Participants are deeply paranoid right now and increasingly fractured. Many are retreating into smaller, supposedly vetted cells — classic behavior consistent with clandestine, criminal organizing.

Signal is only one of many platforms in use. These networks are also highly active on Reddit, Bluesky, and Instagram. Dozens of groups are coordinating efforts aimed at intimidating the U.S. government into halting deportations. The ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild are functioning as the legal arm of these leftist militants.

Other actors involved include a web of nonprofits, unions, legal aid organizations, mutual aid groups, riot suppliers, Latino open-border organizations, anarchist street-defense groups, and socialist political organizations (including DSA), such as:

Defend the 612 (Defend612); Monarca Rapid Response Network; COPAL (Comunidades Organizando el Poder y la Acción Latina); Unidos MN; Minnesota Immigrant Rights Action Committee (MIRAC); Immigrant Defense Network (IDN); TakeAction Minnesota; Immigrant Law Center of Minnesota (ILCM); ACLU of Minnesota; Minnesota Interfaith Coalition on Immigration (ICOM); ISAIAH MN; MN ICE Watch; Richfield MN Rapid Response Network (also known as Richfield Community Safety Network); Twin Cities Coalition 4 Justice; Minnesota 50501; MN Anti-War Committee; Twin Cities DSA; Freedom Street Health; FRSO Twin Cities; MFE59 – Minneapolis Federation of Educators; Veterans for Peace.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But what about membership cards?

[ML (now paying)]

They have to be notarized too.

[Super Scary]

"Another responded: “It’s like when my parents divorced.”"

Come on now, these people have GOT to be trolling.

[windycityattorney]

"Alex Pretti and Renee Good, two militant leftist activists shot dead this month, may have been part of these groups."

Totally serious reporting here gents.

Yes people use signal to warn others where ICE agents are. Or to track their movements. Yes people blow whistles to warn others within ear shot when they are near.

It's this very foreign concept: the desire to help others. Perhaps their most grievous sin to the authoritarian sadist pricks.

[ML (now paying)]

There's nothing helpful about taking Democrat color revolution money to riot on behalf of criminals and pedophiles and distract from massive fraud.

There is zero difference between what Homan was doing for Obama and what Homan was doing for Trump aside from the fact that one is a Republican.

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

Nothing more sadistic than enforcing laws.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Fake lawyers hate the laws the most.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yup, helping people disobey laws and escape prosecution.

Isn't there a legal term for that, you ignorant cunt?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Starmer forced to pull bill that would hand control of an island with a US base to china.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/humiliating-retreat-starmer-forced-pull-chagos-bill-after-trump-backlash

[Minadin]

Why was the UK considering giving the islands over to Mauritius in the first place?

[Mickey Rat]

Nobody really knows.

[ML (now paying)]

It was insane. The Chagos Islands has had no history of being owned by Mauritius aside from both being owned by France at one point and no sizable Mauritius population.

If you view Starmer as an evil alien who wants to destroy the UK utterly, only then do his actions begin to make sense.

[Mickey Rat]

The bill would have not only granted Mauritius sovereignty over the island, but the UK would have paid so much money to Mauritius to do so, that the Mauritius government was contemplating lowering their domestic taxes. Apparently, this had been pushed by a foreign born British civil servant from New Delhi.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Israel has received the very last body of the hostages taken by Hamas on October 7, 2023.

And people thought Trump didn't earn that broad's Nobel.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Carrying a firearm is not a death sentence, it's a Constitutionally protected God-given right, and if you don't understand this you have no business in law enforcement or government.'

Uh, sure. And carrying a jug of gasoline into a burning building is also a natural right.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

As long as you dont shout fire.

[mad.casual]

Yeah, it's kinda sad when even Massie is getting flamboyantly incoherent and generally dodging issues of free choice and individual agency.

Probably Trump's fault.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

My baby son, Solomon, was operated on yesterday. It went well.

May he have a speedy recovery.

[ML (now paying)]

Amen.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.

He ain't wrong. Second Amendment protections, my ass.

[Bubba Jones]

We can split hairs and say "legally protected from any consequences" as opposed to "justified."

Potato, Tomato.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I admit that I generally hate the feds, but I do also want immigration laws enforced and hate useful idiot protesters just as much. Outside of this particular shooting, which was a clear fuckup regardless of how understandably chaotic the scene, my problem is that law enforcement IN GENERAL needs to make peace with the fact that the right to armed self defense is God given and protected in the United States by the supreme law of the land.

The uncomfortable truth for anyone who currently support our federal institutions is that the Second Amendment is there to make those federal institutions less comfortable with the heavy hand. At some point each of us has to decide how much liberty we're willing to cede because we support the work the feds are doing today.

I know this sounds like I'm excusing the nurse whose name I can't be bothered to remember, but I'm not. The dude had agency and stepped into the fray willingly. Just because I don't like him or his cause, I can still want feds to get used to an armed population and to take their use of deadly force a little more seriously. Nothing is more important to liberty than our absolute right to bear arms. But what do I know.

[HorseConch]

I agree with this take, but I would never do what he did because I know the consequences are almost certainly negative. I choose not to risk martyrdom.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I admit that I generally hate the feds, but I do also want immigration laws enforced and hate useful idiot protesters just as much.

This is something that I have difficulty understanding. How could you hate both groups "just as much"? The feds are the ones who wield actual power. They are the ones who have the legal authority to throw you in jail and tax and regulate you to oblivion. No protestor has the LEGAL authority to do any of that. Many protesters may advocate for horrible or awful things, but they have no power on their own to enact any of those things. Only the government can.

[ML (now paying)]

Jeff is:

Reordering moral concern based on power, not conduct

Rejecting “both sides are bad” as intellectually lazy

Using state authority as the ultimate moral multiplier

He’s not defending protesters; he’s arguing that only the state deserves existential suspicion, and anyone who disagrees has lost sight of where real power actually lives.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Mobs also wield power and my heart is big enough for much hate.

[damikesc]

Ask Robespierre how little power the mob has.

I mean, the mob DID kill Louis XVI. And, eventually, Robespierre. Nothing has more power than the mob.

[Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)]

The left will never let us have an honest dialog on this. They refuse to acknowledge Pretti's agency, his failure to obey the law while carrying and continued resistance, just as they refuse to acknowledge that Babbitt was defenseless in that moment and given no warning. That is what allows them to maintain their polar opposite conclusions in regards to appropriate force.

Personally, like you seem to, I have a nuanced position which never gets voiced because the left refuses to ever agree to the facts. It is a tactic. A way to forestall the honest debate they know they will lose.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What is your nuanced position then?

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

It’s plain stupid to fights cops on the street.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

I’ll bet it ain’t selective.

Asshole.

[Social Justice is neither]

2A is not a bullet shield. When you start fighting officers and reaching for where your gun is supposed to be you might just have Darwined yourself.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But your comrades will make you a martyr for the Holy Crusade!

[windycityattorney]

*where your gun used to be

Which begs the question, where did the gun go? If only there was video that could answer these important questions.

[Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)]

"Which begs the question, where did the gun go?"

No it doesn't. You have to watch that video in super slow motion for there to be a detectable amount of time between when that gun is pulled and when the first shots occur.

Any defense attorney would show the video at full speed in response and ask the jury, "can you tell me exactly where the gun is when the agent makes the decision to fire?"

[windycityattorney]

For the record, I have watched the videos and I don't recall seeing the victim reaching for where his holster/gun would be. I don't agree that it even happened OR could happen given the circumstances.

Its seems just as likely one of the multiple agents was pulling an arm back to put him in cuffs/restraints. Its not like it was very coordinated between the agents themselves. What with one beating him with a can of pepper spray and others holding him down and tussling with him and all.

I am sure there will be plenty of excuses once the investigation is complete. And yes, a good defense attorney would in fact highlight the rapid nature of the events and the chaotic nature of the whole scene. That is their job and they are paid to do it.

So what's your excuse?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Carrying a firearm is not a death sentence, it's a Constitutionally protected God-given right, and if you don't understand this you have no business in law enforcement or government.

I think I'll take advice from someone who didn't irresponsibly lose all his guns in a boating accident, thank you.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Watching reason glam on to the same retarded talking point as every anti gun democrat yesterday was sickening.

The carry wasnt the issue. The resisting arrest while doing so was.

[Murray Rothtard]

dude... JD Vance, Bovino, and Noem MADE carrying the issue. Of course people are going to respond.

The goal posts moved once the NRA was like "what the fuck??" and now you guys are pretending democrats started it. hilarious.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Who here quoted those 3 retard? Notice none of us did.

Are you truly that retarded?

This just proves my point above. You see this as a game of narratives instead of a game for truth. Youre a brain dead leftist.

[Murray Rothtard]

Cool. I am glad that everyone on here seems to agree that Noem, Patel, Bovino, and Bessent were being total retards when they tried to make carrying a gun the issue.

Sorry for including you in the list. It's nice to know you don't agree with them.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

You didnt answer the question.

Can't think past talking points you read on reddit?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

You’re just kind of dumb, aren’t you?

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Retard trying to make sense. And failing.
Fuck off and die, Asswipe Retard.

[5Arete22]

Sevo, remember: _Private_ hand flapping and vocalizations.

[Mike Parsons]

"The carry wasnt the issue. "

I will say, a disturbing amount of bumbling interviews from admins on this issue made carrying the issue.

Kash Patel and Bessent in interviews specifically state that carrying alone at a protest is inappropriate.

Noem and Bovino portrayed him as "having intent for mass casualty", and if carrying with one extra mag qualifies as that, then literally every person I know who carries is guilty.

I still think he's an idiot for planning to go to a place where scuffles with LEOs are happening, while carrying, wouldn't do it myself. Or resist arrest. Both idiotic. But the admins comments are grossly anti 2A

[Ron]

I wouldn't say grossly anti 2a I think they are just uninformed about each states laws. Example in California it is illegal to carry to a protest. I disagree with this infringing law but if you have a CCW then you have to abide by the laws of that state. In Petti's case he purposely left his ID at home, no one does that without intent, however if he had real intent for terrorism he would of had more than just 2 magazines on him. the whole thing is a complicated mess that yes Administration spoke to soon about.

[mad.casual]

then literally every person I know who carries is guilty

Are you perpetrating the same or a similar hyperbole as they do here or do you just not know very many people who concealed-carry?

I know lots of people who carry knives. Somebody carrying more knives than they have hands isn't planning on simply using the knives to defend themselves.

It would be one thing if he were an LEO in a gritty part of LA or Chicago or Baltimore or whatever, paid to enforce peace at high or all costs, but he's a nurse.

And regardless of what you *feel* about the 2A, facts on the ground are, if having a Punisher Skull on your weapon can be rightly considered as a sign of intent by a jury, 60+ rounds can be also. Again, many pro-2A people would prefer that it be "Alec Baldwin pointed the gun at someone and pulled the trigger killing them and the person behind them. Case closed.", but it's not.

Kyle Rittenhouse carried 30 and used 8. Eli Dicken had 20 and fired 10. Loughner had 66. Lanza had 300. Recognizing a distinction is not irrational. At some point you, objectively, pass from the question of defense of self and others and into the question of armed insurrection (or plain mass murder) or defense against tyranny, which reasonable people can rightly question. Your 2A right, rather specifically, doesn't extend to preventing them from speaking on it (separate from litigation) or rationalizing it one way or the other.

SSDD - Anyone picking up a gun to defend themselves, others, or their community and country against *tyranny* should know this. It's likely Pretti knew and believed it and pretending he just accidentally carried 60+ rounds to a protest inherently speaks against his agency.

[Mike Parsons]

"At some point you, objectively, pass from the question of defense of self and others and into the question of armed insurrection (or plain mass murder) or defense against tyranny, which reasonable people can rightly question."

Which one do you think it was, from the video, genuine question, not a smart ass. What's your read

"Are you perpetrating the same or a similar hyperbole as they do here or do you just not know very many people who concealed-carry?"

Do you carry, and know a significant amount of people who do? Am I reading the situation wrong? Did he not have a loaded mag and a spare? I have spent exorbitant amount of time at ranges, doing trigger mods, talking guns, and there was a time I did EDC. Im at a more...comfortable phase of life now, but regardless...ive been immersed in this culture for a long time, and most of my buddies are as well. Most of them consider it standard to have a second mag on their person. Maybe we came up at a different time or something, but this is in no way abnormal, and is more then norm than it isnt, in my circle. But first responder +/- military experience is the norm as well with these folks, so maybe my judgement is clouded.

"Somebody carrying more knives than they have hands isn't planning on simply using the knives to defend themselves."

This analogy fails in so many ways ill just leave you to ponder them on your own, there are at minimum 3 glaringly obvious issues. But to start, are you really comparing someone with a back up mag to "someone with more knives than hands". Jesus man, I might try and get you a job at CNN in Don Lemon's old spot with this rhetoric.

To reiterate: he was dumb for doing it. But the rhetoric has been shit, and the shoot was bad IMO

[mad.casual]

Which one do you think it was, from the video, genuine question, not a smart ass.

He clearly wasn't using the weapon to defend himself or others. If that was his intent, he failed.

Do you carry,

Not daily, but yes. Never without a license. Even sports hunters like myself know better than to be caught with a carcass without a tag.

and know a significant amount of people who do?

One immediate family member, half a dozen extended family members, half a dozen more guys from various social groups including range buddies, and a few other outdoorsmen and hunters (who overlap a bit with the range) on top of that.

Even if I didn't, recognizing the entry point for handguns on the market is something anyone can do from home. Even children can do it for all kinds of things, from cars to houses to appliances. Similarly, the number of rounds to survive, e.g., a mugging vs. fend off an invasion of home or other is pretty readily available. Experts may disagree as to the exact number of rounds, but the debate has been had, down to the caliber and, traditionally, people euphemistically "right within an order of magnitude" are generally recognized as wrong.

And, to be clear, none of this speaks to the legality of carrying 300 or more rounds on your person or on a pallet in the back of your truck in whatever county in whatever state you may be in. We're talking about adjudicating a specific case in a court of law, in the case of QI a civil suit no less, which the 2A, like the 1A, abides, not legislating from Congress.

Am I reading the situation wrong? Did he not have a loaded mag and a spare?

Are you asking me to be responsible for your awareness of the situation? Charitable guy that I am, despite the fact that the information is out there for you to find for yourself and has been repeated ad nauseum, here you go: loaded magazine and *two* spares. I even said 60+ rounds. Again, most people who aren't professionally required to be armed recognize that most shootings are over in less than a magazine, certainly two. Again, just objectively, it would seem that you're one of these people or at least trying to pass yourself off as one. Further, once again at some point, you aren't talking about defending yourself against one or two or even three opportunistic attackers, but a sustained gunfight that even trained soldiers wouldn't wade into without the ability to call for support.

This analogy fails in so many ways ill just leave you to ponder them on your own, there are at minimum 3 glaringly obvious issues.

No pondering required. I didn't choose it frivolously. You understand that most officers carry tourniquets rather than a(nother) spare magazine now because a tourniquet is *far* more likely to save a life, including their own, relative to 8 or 19 more rounds, right? The assumption that more bullets solves everything reduces your situational awareness.

To reiterate: he was dumb for doing it. But the rhetoric has been shit, and the shoot was bad IMO

So, dodges and contextually-askance tactical declarations aside, was he complicit in his own demise or is there no shadow of doubt? AFAICT, there's even a not insignificant question as to whether Sig might be implicated. If the guy is non-compliant and has his hand in his waistband when the Sig someone pulled off of him goes off... whose to say?

What I can say is the guy cosplaying on the internet like a retard after the video has been put up and after multiple people have has said 60+ rounds, including to the cosplaying retard directly, is probably less reliable than anyone ICE or other, at the scene.

[HorseConch]

They may be wrong to call it inappropriate, but as a lifelong gun owner, it's still fucking stupid.

[Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)]

I don't know what Noem was thinking, but Patel and Bessent are not wrong. SCOTUS has always recognized the right to disarm individuals at locations where law enforcement is present and responsible for public safety, like a courthouse.

Carrying to a protest, the planned aim of which is to interfere with armed law enforcement agents, runs counter to that interpretation of the 2A. The expectation is that law enforcement agents are responsible for public safety during active law enforcement operations. Just pull a pistol in the presence of a police officer if you want to confirm this.

As for Noem's poorly explained logic, who was Pretti pretending was going to take actions that would require Pretti to use lethal force in defense? It is an obvious conclusion that he was armed to exchange fire with ICE if he felt threatened.

It is also equally plausible that he was a CCW permit holder who didn't listen to instructions and broke the law and resisted arrest while armed only to find out why they give specific warnings against that. This, however, does not explain why he didn't have ID on him as required.

[mad.casual]

It is an obvious conclusion that he was armed to exchange fire with ICE if he felt threatened.

I wouldn't even say this.

Relatively armchair writers from Reason have recognized the "stochastic" nature here. Wading in with a bomb strapped to his chest wins the PR war on behalf of ICE. Wading in repeatedly, escalating with a gun in his belt, until it goes off, is specifically intended to sway public opinion, just as any terrorist would.

Again, unless you're going to call Nancy Rommelman a Noem/ICE/Trump-loving counterterrorism spook a week before Alex Pretti may-or-may-not-have suicided by cop, it was obvious where this was going. Even Mayor Frey said as much and, rather than deploying the MPD like they've done now, let the situation fester to the point where Pretti happened.

This last point should be exceptionally noteworthy as Trump is responsible for enforcing Federal law in MN, but isn't and cannot enforce, let alone take responsibility for, State law. Frey is *supposed* to be the primary insurance of peaceful obedience to the law in the city.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ye, fka Kanye West, takes out a full-page in the Wall Street Journal to apologize to the Black community, and for antisemitism...

WHO LET THE PR PEOPLE GET TO HIM?

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

The jews?

[Mike Parsons]

got the call!

[Longtobefree]

" . . . and there's a chance of losing more, you know, innocent lives or whatever . . . "

I counted three federal felonies committed before the shooting.
Not an innocent life.

[Mike Parsons]

"Kanye West, takes out a full-page in the Wall Street Journal to apologize to the Black community, and for antisemitism: "

I see he's out of the manic episode and on meds again, and looked at his bank account

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

Who will apologize to the white people?

[Longtobefree]

"Who will apologize to the white people?"

No one.

[Marshal]

"Officials who rush to judgment before all the facts are known undermine public trust and the law-enforcement mission," said Sen. John Curtis (R–Utah) on X. "I disagree with Secretary Noem's premature DHS response, which came before all the facts were known and weakened confidence.

I thought this might lead to criticizing Dem officials who called it an execution before they knew all the facts, but of course no one holds Dems to the same standards they apply to Reps. This is because instinctively we all know Dems are liars and propagandists and expecting them to meet any standard at all is futile. Meanwhile as the only adults in the room Reps are hyper-criticized for any deviation from perfection.

[Mike Parsons]

"Canada's assisted suicide program...make decisions to live or die. They have their own incentives, don't they?"

They have literally the worst incentive: they are caring for a person who potentially is of the highest cost to the universal health care they offer, and is going to be an ongoing high cost for the remainder of their life, and all of that goes away the second you off them. MAID makes universal health care a heck of a lot more doable.

[Mickey Rat]

They actually do seem to think that government loves them as an individual and would not make a badly motivated decision about anyone's welfare if it was in charge of health care.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Are you a sick person who would kill grandma to save 5 bucks?

[Eeyore]

Due process becomes a closed door meeting between two psychopaths with medical licenses. Someone on death row has more rights.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Are you a sick person who would kill grandma to save 5 bucks?

[Neutral not Neutered]

Are you a sick person who would kill grandma to save 5 bucks?

[Super Scary]

"with the killing of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex Pretti "

How come you guys aren't giving Pretti the lauded "legal observer" title? Does "ICU nurse" rank higher in the lefty social hierarchy or something? I need a flow chart.

[Spiritus Mundi]

With the left is is a ladder. Charts are white supremacy.

[HorseConch]

How about Venn Diagrams?

[damikesc]

ICU nurse does not exist in his case. Quit months ago.

[Moderation4ever]

Best wishes for Solomon and your family. I hope his surgery and treatment are successful, he has a full recovery and a great life.

[Moderation4ever]

It is too bad that the Trump administration had to kill two people to learn their lesson in Minneapolis. The murder of Renee Good should have been enough for a pull back and reflection. A lot of Republican are speaking out now when they should have been speaking out after Renee Good was killed.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Parody.

Far more have been killed and raped for your open borders demands. Yet you haven't changed your own position. Why?

[Spiritus Mundi]

How many people did the targets of the ICE raids murder? Why no tears for their victims?

[Moderation4ever]

Well according to the CATO institute 65% of the ICE targets have no criminal record and 93% have no record of a violent crime record. I have sympathy for anyone or their family if they suffer from a violent crime that sympathy is without regard to the immigration status of the perpetrator.

https://www.cato.org/blog/65-people-taken-ice-had-no-convictions-93-no-violent-convictions

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Now do rapists. And "rapists".

[Super Scary]

You'll be disappointed to learn that ICE is still in Minneapolis and now the local PD is actually helping them.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Mod4: "Law enforcement bad, mkay?"

[Neutral not Neutered]

You are more of a murderous thug voting to allow millions of violent criminals, rapists, murderers, terrorists, child abusers, into America than the ICE agents defending themselves from other violent thugs like you.

[Moderation4ever]

To Representative James Comer, yes, those we want those immigrants, document and undocumented, that are working hard, paying taxes, and contribute to our community. The promise was to get the worst of the worst. Not the children, not the college students, not the preschool teachers, and not all the other just keeping their heads down and minding their business.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Seeing as over 40% of illegal families are on some form of welfare, I see you support deporting at least half of them. Right?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Who the fuck is "we"?

Many of the "we" who voted for Trump expect him to undo 10 million illegal immigrants. Period.

If you don't like that, move to all the other countries who allow unlimited immigration. Oh, wait...

[chemjeff radical individualist]

And many of the people who voted for Obama in 2008 expected "free health care". They didn't get that either.

The math is simply not there, and we have seen that the heavy-handed tactics just don't work to accomplish their goal.

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

Walz +7

[ML (now paying)]

1) Expectation deflation via false equivalence

By comparing Trump voters’ deportation expectations to Obama voters expecting “free health care,” Jeff is downgrading a concrete policy mandate into a vague, unrealistic wish. This frames mass deportation not as a debated enforcement goal, but as an unserious fantasy voters should have known better than to expect.

The move isn’t to argue whether deportations are right, but to suggest they were never plausible to begin with.

2) Shifting from legitimacy to logistics

He pivots the argument away from:

who has authority

what the law allows

what voters endorsed

and toward:
“The math is simply not there.”

This is a classic technocratic escape hatch: once framed as a numbers problem, moral, legal, and democratic arguments are sidelined.

3) Preemptive failure narrative

“Heavy-handed tactics just don’t work” is asserted without evidence, but it serves a purpose:
If enforcement fails, it proves the tactic was wrong; if it succeeds, it’s dismissed as unsustainable or cruel.

Either way, the conclusion is locked in.

Bottom line

Jeff is:

Minimizing voter intent by recasting it as naïve expectation

Reframing policy disagreement as logistical inevitability

Using feasibility arguments to avoid normative debate

He’s not engaging with whether deportation should happen; he’s arguing that it can’t, and therefore shouldn’t even be seriously attempted.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

A. Free health care - There is no such thing. So someone expecting it is an idiot or thinks 'free' means they don't pay for it but someone else does.

B. The math is there. Every deported individual is one less individual that should not have been here anyway. The other math that works? A country that is unwelcoming to illegal immigration and open to deportation of such does dissuade more illegal immigration from coming.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Just because demonrat voters are particularly stupid doesn't change the fact that millions of illegals must be deported as mandated by the sensible 70% of Americans.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Ah, there goes chemjeff selectively nuanced defeatist with his bullshit again. Might as well not even try.

Asshole.

[Moderation4ever]

"We" is a large number of people that is growing larger everyday. The fact is that most people wanted what they were promised that the deportation would be the "worst of the worst". What they are seeing is indiscriminate action targeting people without regard to whether they are a threat to the community.

Many people did vote for Trump in 2024 and many of those same people are finding themselves unhappy with their choice.

[Marshal]

The fact is that most people wanted what they were promised that the deportation would be the "worst of the worst".

This is two lies in one: that they were promised only the worst of the worst would be deported and that most people only want this. People both wanted and were promised immigration enforcement including deporting illegals.

The only time the "worst of the worst" was mentioned is in prioritizing.

[Moderation4ever]

But the Trump administration did not prioritize they set quotas instead and only cared about the number of scalps collected. Gang member or school teacher it did not matter to DHS and that is why people felt lied to.

[Marshal]

But the Trump administration did not prioritize

Of course they are, you claim they are not because you don't care whether it's true only whether it will help your team. It takes far more effort to locate and catch the "worst of the worst" because they are actively hiding. Because of this the numbers will always skew to the routine cases even when most of the effort is spent on the difficult cases.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I dare you. Just come out and admit that you want open borders and zero immigration enforcement.

[Incunabulum]

Turns out that all the ones they were taking away were fraudsters, murderers, and rapists.

[Neutral not Neutered]

FIFY

To Representative James Comer, yes, we want those LEGAL immigrants, documented, that are working hard, paying taxes, and contributing to our community.

The promise was to get the worst of the worst, first.

But ultimately removing the millions of illegal aliens allowed entry by the Biden Admin must occur because paying for these folks with some illegal welfare program is unsustainable and the American people voted for Trump to deport them.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But is Ye still confused about fish sticks?

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

“Yo, that is messed up, yo. I am not gay, and I sure as hell ain't no fish, all right?!”

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Does Carlos mencia really not have a dick? Seems too random for Parker and stone who tend to throw in real life celebrity foibles for their episodes. Like Bruce Jenner running over someone with a car. Or Alec Baldwin using homophobic slurs in public.

Doubt they would make up the no dick thing from whole cloth, but maybe it’s a metaphor?

[Get To Da Chippah]

Good luck to little Solomon, Liz.

[Mickey Rat]

Poking a bear with a sharp stick is not a death sentence. Performing gymnastics on the parapet of a skyscraper without safety equipment is not a death sentence. Going to protest law enforcement operations intending to physically interfere with the LEOs carrying out their duties while armed is stupidly reckless behavior that has many likely bad endings for you. You should be giving all those situations a wide berth.

This "didn't do nuttin'" narrative is really tired and dishonest.

[Eeyore]

Poking a black bear - you might get away with. Poking a grizzly? I'm betting on the bear.

[InsaneTrollLogic (smarter than The Average Dude)]

The only question is, which trunk does the bear pop out of?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, man, Pretti not only "didn't do nuttin'", he was like a holy warrior and super-duper angelic savior and champion of (D)emocracy!, plus a totes innocent bystander.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Heavily armed man goes to a riot, interferes with an arrest, gets shot and dies.
The story from end to end. My 'sympathy' mask seems to have gone missing.

[Eeyore]

Why doesn't anyone empathize with the emotional abuse ICE agents have undergone for weeks and months in a row? Like an abused spouse who finally snaps and finally kills her husband.

[mad.casual]

The video of the ICE agent bleeding while shouting "Where is the local law enforcement?" and then restraining himself from answering while the *gaggle* of reporters shout back (e.g.) "What is your message to the Mayor?" at him was mind-boggling.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

yes, why doesn't someone think of the poor, poor thugs being treated poorly for their thuggery

[Mickey Rat]

And there we go with a blanket libel.

If any of these "protester" truly thought the ICE agents were really just thugs, would they be antagonizing them? The behavior does not match the rhetoric.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

They are documenting the thuggery for the world to see. Yes they are all risking harm by being out there. Some people think that the risk is worth it in service of a higher principle. Do you understand that some people might think this way?

[Marshal]

Some people think that the risk is worth it in service of a higher principle.

The protesters are thugs, how others act in response does not change this. Jeffey is quite practiced at ignoring facts he wish didn't exist but the rest of us see this not only by participating in a street army but also by joining roving mobs assaulting people they think might be ICE.

[ML (now paying)]

Jeff is doing three overlapping rhetorical moves here, all of them consistent with the rest of the thread.

1) Moral inversion and dehumanization

When he says “poor, poor thugs being treated poorly for their thuggery”, he’s not arguing facts. He’s pre-emptively stripping ICE agents of moral standing so that any harm directed at them becomes self-justifying.

Once they are labeled thugs:

empathy becomes illegitimate

abuse becomes deserved

escalation becomes principled

That’s why he mocks the abused-spouse analogy rather than engaging it. Accepting it would require acknowledging ICE agents as human actors under pressure, which would collapse his framing.

2) Heroic reframing of provocation

When challenged, Jeff reframes antagonism as virtuous witness:

“They are documenting the thuggery for the world to see… in service of a higher principle.”

This is a key move. It turns:

harassment → documentation

interference → moral courage

risk-seeking → noble sacrifice

It also conveniently absolves protesters of responsibility for escalation. Any harm that follows is reclassified as evidence of systemic brutality rather than a foreseeable outcome of deliberate provocation.

3) Implied moral coercion

The closing line:

“Do you understand that some people might think this way?”

is not genuine curiosity. It’s norm enforcement.

The subtext is:

If you don’t accept this framing, you lack moral imagination

If you empathize with ICE, you’re siding with “thugs”

Disagreement becomes a moral defect, not a judgment call

This is how he avoids debating whether the behavior is effective, prudent, or responsible.

Bottom line

Jeff is:

Dehumanizing one side

Sanctifying the other

Rebranding provocation as moral witness

Using moral language to shut down practical or ethical critique

This is not an argument about tactics or evidence. It’s a moral sorting mechanism: once you accept his frame, the conclusion is predetermined; once you reject it, you are cast as morally suspect.

That’s why the conversation never resolves. It isn’t meant to.

[damikesc]

Gotta say, ML's long breakdowns of the laughable arguments used by some here are a legit highlight.

[damikesc]

The same ones who demand citizens they do not like show them their IDs and threaten violence routinely? Those angels?

[Neutral not Neutered]

They are painting a completely false image of what is really happening.

Allowing their hate, prejudice and brainwashed idiocy to control them instead of thinking honestly.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Because they are thugs illegally in the country and should have never been let in but now must be deported.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"Thugs", eh? That must have been in the DNC talking points memo, since this word suddenly appeared in hundreds of activist posts on many sites.

[Bill Godshall]

Liz Wolfe should have been put out to pasture long ago, as her daily anti Trump tirades got old after her first week on the job.

Seems like Reason's goal (ever since Trump announced his presidential bid in 2016) has been to anger and upset its libertarian readers in order to obtain more $$$$$$$ from Koch.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

KMW cares about Kochbucks, not journalism or libertarianism.

[5Arete22]

BG, my impression of _Reason_ differs from yours. I donate to the Reason Foundation and think that the magazine has an acceptable quantity of articles exposing and opposing Trump's anti-libertarian behavior, just as it did for Biden, et. al.

[MWAocdoc]

"Good! Welfare fraud in Minnesota needs to be investigated and stamped out"

No, what needs to be stamped out, in Minnesota and everywhere else, is WELFARE. The fraud is inseparable from the government largesse. One might even conclude that the fraud is the goal of government largesse. Wealth transfers are, almost by definition, payoffs in political contexts. "If you vote for me, I will take money from these other guys and give it to you!"

[damikesc]

Getting rid of welfare will take a very long time.

Any reason we should not, you know, punish criminals?

[Spiritus Mundi]

Inside possible coercion cases in Canada's assisted suicide program.

It is ok for governments to kill patients, not nurses.

[I, Woodchipper]

let the people of Minneapolis decide, 'Do we want to continue to have all of these illegals?'" asked Rep. James Comer (R–Ky.) on Fox.

No. Jesus christ you idiot.

The whole POINT of importing all those illegals into Minneapolis was to stack the deck for Dems against the american people. You have to send them all back.

[Murray Rothtard]

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/ice-unloads
^interviews with current ICE agents on how they view the Pretti shooting. Most of it is what i've been saying on here for days: inexperienced noobs are fucking up royally and jeopardizing the entire operation that they support. Those of you here that are huge fans of immigration enforcement might want to listen to the pros here.

trigger warning: off-record interviews so of course you don't have to believe a word if you don't want to.

[Murray Rothtard]

"I’ve listened to the stories and the beefs of immigration officers in Minneapolis across the country, and to a person, they all blame the shooter, one of their own. The major media is stuck on framing the killing of Alex Pretti as some national and partisan battle, highlighting Republicans breaking ranks, the NRA protesting, MAGA wavering, and Chuck Schumer doing whatever he’s doing, but no one is really capturing what the federal law enforcement officers on the ground are thinking. The truth is that they’re fed up and have been for weeks."

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Ha, should have read your post first

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

trigger warning: retarded takes by Retard.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I read that. It's certainly not unusual for veterans in any field to bitch about management and claim the new guys are fucking things up. That is not to say that their opinions have no merit but as with any large organization it's usually impossible to get the ear of anybody who can do anything about it. For the record I fully support the removal of all illegal aliens without prejudice if they are eligible to reapply for legal residency and with prejudice if they have committed any crime in the US including defying an order of removal. I think Noem, Miller et al have handled this matter very poorly. They could have built a politically palatable narrative by exercising a little restraint for a few days. Walz and Frey could have done the same but they obviously didn't. Both sides are preaching to their choir but the agnostics in the pews are left with freeze frame vertical videos. Trump believes, correctly, that deportations are politically popular but he's allowed the open borders zealots to gain the upper hand because the media has convinced the public that the methods are not justified. Trump has a lot on his plate dealing with critical issues worldwide. But he's finally realized that he has to put out this fire. He's making changes to enforcement in MN and saying nice things about Walz and Fry. Their public statements on the other hand continue to be belligerent. Defunding or abolishing ICE is not going to happen and it's absurd that it's even a topic of conversation but that's where we are.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

I warned ya. Like finding workers who gripe about management.

[mad.casual]

There's actually a "history rhymes" aspect to it all.

Like with COVID. Like with castrating children. People said as CBP and ICE were creeping away from the border that, while the mission creep wasn't good, ignoring the border wasn't any more stable or socially coherent. Virtually everything foretold... corruption, crime, welfare fraud, voter fraud, social instability, resulting crackdown and austerity... came true.

But, of course, those people were stodgy, ossified, evil, racist Conservatives, like Pretti's Dad telling him not to get involved because he'd wind up getting himself hurt or killed.

[Neutral not Neutered]

You need to find something to do. Seek help.

It must get tiring regurgitating other people's lies day after day.

The anger you must feel when your gaslit world is debunked over and over and over can't be worth it.

[Murray Rothtard]

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Here is a left-of-center voice talking about the quality of recent ICE recruits.

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/ice-unloads

He makes the point that they really aren't Gestapo. I agree with that. They're not. They are instead more like Police Academy but without the humor. They are poorly trained, acting more like thugs than professionals, or in some cases, acting like mercenaries, more interested in the paycheck than in doing their jobs well.

“As much as I support this administration there needs to be more common sense in situations like this, not a knee jerk damage control narrative that does not line up with the evidence on video,” one Border Patrol agent said in a private chat group that was shared with me. “This individual was shot 8 to 9 times while unarmed.”

“We can’t always support what happens just because it’s one of us,” he adds.

An ICE agent was even more critical. “Yet another ‘justified’ fatal shooting … ten versus one and somehow they couldn’t find a way to subdue the guy or use a less than lethal [means],” the agent said. “They all carry belts and vests with 9,000 pieces of equipment on them and the best they can do is shoot a guy in the back?”

It also goes on to mention that from the DC point of view, the operation more resembles Baghdad ca. 2005 than Minneapolis: a "counter-insurgency" operation in a faraway land (faraway from DC), with a government overly concerned about optics.

[damikesc]

Som we can cite Alex Jones and you won't refer to him as a hack or anything now?

[Neutral not Neutered]

You need to find something to do. It must get tiring posting hate and lies day after day and the anger you must feel when your gaslit world is debunked over and over and over can't be worth it.

[Incunabulum]

>Do we want to continue to have all of these illegal

He is an idiot. Why don't we get a way when we are the ones who are going to have to pay to support them?

[windycityattorney]

Pour one out for the midget Bovino. Who could have predicted that the tiny field commander with the questionable wardrobe and public face of chaos would be the sacrificial lamb of the Trump admin?

Sad!

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

windycitybullshitter bullshitting! Sad!

[windycityattorney]

If you want to build a tiny shrine to Bovino; might I suggest Star Wars legos??

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

windycitybullshitter again bullshitting! Fuck off and die, windycityasswipe.

[Neutral not Neutered]

It is sad, the level to which you will drop believing lies just to sling your hate.

Seek help

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Hmm. Turns out Pretti's last dance wasn't his first dance.
https://nypost.com/2026/01/27/us-news/alex-pretti-known-to-feds-had-rib-broken-in-anti-ice-protest-a-week-before-he-was-killed-by-border-patrol/

[Z Crazy]

He is looking to be a bad guy and not just someone who was helping a woman that tripped and fell down, as some have said.

[Murray Rothtard]

So now that you know that a week earlier, he was tackled and attacked by agents for... checks notes... pulling over his car and blowing a whistle (both fully legal), you think he's WORSE than you thought before?

This is just more evidence of unnecessary ICE brutality.

[Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)]

He didn't get tackled in his car, you nitwit. There is obviously more to it.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

^ This is just more evidence of retarded posts from Retard. Fuck off and die, asswipe.

[Minadin]

Meanwhile, Democrats in Virginia have been on a progressive tear. Yesterday they introduced a bill that would ban just about every modern firearm manufactured in the last 50 years.

https://lis.virginia.gov/bill-details/20261/SB749/text/SB749SC1

[Longtobefree]

Go for over a century - - - - - -

The first commercially successful centerfire semi-automatic rifle was the Remington Model 8 (or Remington Autoloading Rifle), designed by John Browning and introduced in 1905

(not so much progressive as full on fascist)

[Minadin]

It also only exempts them if the ammunition used is no longer in production.

[I, Woodchipper]

1. import a kid from Bangladesh
2. elect him to office
3. he introduces most restrictive gun ban of any state

amazing

[I, Woodchipper]

we MUST severely limit immigration including illegal immigration.

We must closely vet any potential new american to ensure they bring AMERICAN values. No commies, no socialists, no jihadists, etc. We used to do this. We can do it again.

[damikesc]

I am stunned that the moderate Dems of VA are not moderates. Weird how the press always falls for this thing.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

And by press you mean Reason?

[Chuck P. (Now with less Sarc more snark)]

Scroll to the bottom. "Forfeiture of weapons, etc., that are concealed, possessed, transported, or carried in violation of law."

Transporting a firearm in the back of any vehicle without a trunk would qualify. They are, in fact, coming for our guns.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Oh gee, the fight brought by the illegals and the demonrat sheeple and paid global Marxists trying to destroy America is elevating and the lies and fake news stories have climbed to new heights as their stupid supporters put themselves illegally in harms way.

Perhaps the lawful and legal actions of ICE and DHS to secure the country and make it safer for American citizens should stop?

Seriously? Just give in? Quit? Let it all go to hell?