The Trump Administration's Increasing Hostility to Basic Due Process
Vice President J.D. Vance is only the latest to indicate he sees due process, as guaranteed in the Constitution, as an unnecessary impediment to the administration's goals.

President Donald Trump has cracked down on immigration in his second term, deporting undocumented migrants and perhaps citizens next.
In the process, members of Trump's administration have demonstrated an overt hostility to basic rights of due process.
On March 12, agents with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) arrested Kilmar Abrego Garcia, an undocumented immigrant from El Salvador. Three days later, the government deported him back to El Salvador to be held in the Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), an overcrowded and dangerous mega-prison where the country's president offered to warehouse deportees from the U.S.
There is much to oppose in that action, perhaps most of all that Abrego Garcia—who had previously been granted a reprieve from deportation—was denied any semblance of due process when government agents grabbed him up, told him his protected status had been revoked, and shuffled him out of the country, all within the span of a long weekend.
The Trump administration contends Abrego Garcia is not entitled to due process, in part because he is a member of the violent street gang MS-13. "That may be true," wrote Cato Institute scholar David Post. "The government, however, has provided no evidence, to a grand jury or to a magistrate or to any third party, that it is true."
Nevertheless, the government is sticking by the claim.
"To say the administration must observe 'due process' is to beg the question: what process is due is a function of our resources, the public interest, the status of the accused, the proposed punishment, and so many other factors," Vice President J.D. Vance wrote in a post on X this week. "When the media and the far left obsess over an MS-13 gang member and demand that he be returned to the United States for a *third* deportation hearing, what they're really saying is they want the vast majority of illegal aliens to stay here permanently."
While Vance does not mention Abrego Garcia in that post by name, he alludes to the case with the details he supplied. And those details are wrong.
According to an April order by Judge Paula Xinis of the U.S. District Court of Maryland, Abrego Garcia immigrated from El Salvador to flee gang violence, settling in Maryland with his brother, a U.S. citizen. After he was arrested in 2019 and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) for deportation, he told an immigration judge he would be subject to gang retaliation if he was sent back. The judge denied his request for bond and ordered him detained "pending the outcome of his requested relief from deportation," as Xinis wrote. (By itself, a denial of bond is not indicative that he presents any danger: "The immigration judge is only taking at face value any evidence that the government provides," said David Bier of the Cato Institute. "It is not assessing its underlying validity at that stage.")
Later that year, "following a full evidentiary hearing, the [immigration judge] granted Abrego Garcia withholding of removal to El Salvador," which "prohibits [the Department of Homeland Security] from returning an alien to the specific country in which he faces clear probability of persecution," Xinis added.
While Vance is correct that a new deportation hearing would have been Abrego Garcia's third, he skips right over the fact that Abrego Garcia was granted relief from deportation at his previous hearing.
But more to the point, Vance's post is galling for how little he seems to care about due process, the constitutional provision nominally preventing the government from throwing any of us in prison for any reason it wishes. That this seems to reflect the general attitude of the administration in which he serves would be frightening even if not for the fact that its only justification is that it simply doesn't make mistakes when identifying terrorists and gang members.
"Ask the people weeping over the lack of due process what precisely they propose for dealing with [former President Joe] Biden's millions and millions of illegals," Vance wrote. "And with reasonable resource and administrative judge constraints, does their solution allow us to deport at least a few million people per year?"
This has nothing to do with deporting the undocumented: A judge already adjudicated Abrego Garcia's case and granted him a reprieve from deportation. If the Trump administration had contrary evidence indicating he should instead be deported, then it should present that evidence in a court of law.
Instead, what evidence has been presented is flimsy, to say the least. "The 'evidence' against Abrego Garcia consisted of nothing more than his Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie, and a vague, uncorroborated allegation from a confidential informant claiming he belonged to MS-13's 'Western' clique in New York—a place he has never lived," Xinis wrote. "No evidence before the Court connects Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or any other criminal organization."
Even what flimsy evidence there is has fallen apart in recent days: That single "vague, uncorroborated allegation" was lodged by Ivan Mendez, a Maryland police officer who arrested Abrego Garcia in 2019. Within days, Mendez was suspended, and would later be indicted, for giving "confidential information" about "an on-going police investigation" to "a commercial sex worker who he was paying in exchange for sexual acts," according to the Prince George's County Police Department. (Mendez's identity and involvement were verified and first reported by Greg Sargent of The New Republic, based on information provided by Abrego Garcia's legal team.)
"When Garcia was arrested he was found with rolls of cash and drugs," wrote Tricia McLaughlin, assistant secretary for public affairs at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). "He was arrested with two other members of MS-13" while "wearing what is effectively MS-13's uniform."
In an X post, the official DHS account posted a document purported to be an application for a domestic violence protection order filed against Abrego Garcia by his wife. In a statement to CNN, Abrego Garcia's wife defended her husband: "Kilmar has always been a loving partner and father, and I will continue to stand by him and demand justice for him."
Again, wearing NBA merch is not a crime. And if Abrego Garcia were actually associating with MS-13 members, or if he were abusive to his wife, then these are details that would be extremely pertinent to bring up in a court of law.
Instead, the administration has obfuscated even in the face of judicial action. Earlier this month, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously upheld a lower court order finding deportees were entitled to due process and instructing the government to "facilitate" Abrego Garcia's return to the U.S. The administration even admitted in court filings that Abrego Garcia was deported "because of an administrative error." (The attorney who filed the brief containing that language was apparently later suspended.)
Nevertheless, the administration insists it has no ability to retrieve Abrego Garcia from the Salvadoran prison where the U.S. government is currently paying $25,000 to house him—what Reason's Damon Root called "a naked assertion of unchecked power." In the Oval Office, Trump and Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele each claimed they were unable to return the man mistakenly deported and housed in a facility intended for terrorists.
There is a lot not to like about the Trump administration's actions so far. But its flagrant hostility to the basic tenet of due process is among the most chilling.
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Biden eliminates all reasonable processes to properly vet immigrants and actively encouraged millions who wouldn't have otherwise been allowed entry.
If they're here illegally then they need to go home. It's that simple. If we can establish that fact then I give zero fucks about anything else you consider "due process."
We as a nation have no requirement to allow anyone to enter and remain without regard to their conduct. Go advocate this bullshit to other nations with far more strict rules and restrictions for immigrants.
We as a nation do have a requirement to follow due process before exercising government force simply to prevent the type of authoritarian abuses you seem to yearn for.
So on 2019 when the pos gang member was ordered to return home because his claim the he would be procecuters for the crimes he committed did not qualify, was that due process? Or did that not count because the illegal didn't get to stay?
To a leftist due process means as many trials as it takes to get their preferred outcome.
also what kind of due process and where did they find their special due process
To be fair, it was decided he shouldn’t be sent back to El Salvador, but that he should be sent somewhere.
He won’t answer.
One thing people don't often know about gangs in Latin America is that members often don't get much of a choice to be in them or not. If your options are "join the gang or we'll murder your family", then there isn't much of a choice. Would you let your family die to avoid joining a gang? Probably not.
And the police are either on the take or their families get threatened as well, so they won't do anything about it. We've had it pretty good in the US for a long time and now people don't think about how difficult life can be in other counties.
How difficult life is in other countries is not our problem. That's one reason we live here and not there. You bleeding heart liberals will be the death of this country. However, this person didn't claim asylum until seven years after he was in this country and still didn't even when picked up by ICE. The guy is full of shit. He's here illegally, end of story.
We as a nation deserve to learn what due process actually means in regards to current laws and precedence of due process. Hint. It doesn't require months of trial for every form of due process.
Due process was given. The immigration court handles asylum claims, the BIA handles the appeal. He went before the immigration court and was denied asylum. Either he did not file an appeal with the BIA within the required 30 days, or the BIA appeal supported the immigration court denial, or his appeal before the BIA is still in process.
Other courts cannot unilaterally decide to get involved just because the asylum was not approved.
So he was denied by the BIA.
"The IJ also determined that he was a flight risk. Abrego-Garcia
appealed, and the Board of Immigration Appeals upheld this bond decision in an opinion issued
on December 19, 2019, citing the danger Abrego-Garcia posed to the community. """
""7. On March 29, 2019, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) served Abrego
Garcia with a Notice to Appear, charging him as inadmissible pursuant to Section
1182(a)(6)(A)(i) of Title 8 of the United States Code, “as an alien present in the United States
without being admitted or paroled, or who arrived in the United States at any time or place other
than as designated by the [Secretary of Homeland Security].”
8. During the course of his proceedings, Abrego-Garcia remained in ICE custody
because the Immigration Judge (IJ) with the Executive Office for Immigration Review denied
Abrego-Garcia bond at a hearing on April 24, 2019, citing danger to the community because “the
evidence show[ed] that he is a verified member of [Mara Salvatrucha] (‘MS-13’)]” and therefore
posed a danger to the community. The IJ also determined that he was a flight risk. Abrego-Garcia
appealed, and the Board of Immigration Appeals upheld this bond decision in an opinion issued
on December 19, 2019, citing the danger Abrego-Garcia posed to the community. ""
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815/gov.uscourts.mdd.578815.11.3.pdf
There is not a set of things that equal due process. Due process simply means following the law. I notice we didn't bother following the law in Mr Garcia's case in the past. But now it's paramount even if it's simply a technicality?Convenient.
Biden admitted at least 10 million illegal immigrants over his term. Asylum courts currently have a six year waiting time to review claims. If everyone who entered illegally is to face a court, it will take decades to see everyone, which is the apparent aim of those demanding full judicial review.
Arrest those suspected of being in the country illegally. Allow them to prove they have a valid visa or are citizens and release those who can, with some reparation. Send the rest back to where they came from. Courts can not handle millions of cases in a year or even ten.
700 judges. 4M asylum claims. Millions more with orders to appear for being here illegally.
Reason demands months of trials for every one of the 20 million illegal immigrants here. While they ignore the due process here is simply a finding of legality here. While reason continues to ignore the actual laws passed by Congress regarding visas and green cards.
It is wild reasons refusal to learn or understand what due process requires with current laws in regards to illegal immigrants.
And every other legal and bureaucratic process, from environmental reviews to simple permits. When "due process" by definition is denial of action--at least in your lifetime--then it should be circumvented.
Then you have Sullum agreeing with Boasberg Trump is guilty for not following the judges illegal order as stated by SCOTUS. Just like he eas fine with the Garland DoJ using a law tonconvict J6ers the SCOTUS said was not valid.
Reason is an extreme far left, global socialist propaganda publication.
Case closed.
I guess the Supreme Court is also a extreme far left, global socialist institution.
Once I was on a ship. Captain of the ship was Captain Joeseph Sleepyhead. For some unknown reason Captain lost his mind and made big holes in the ships hull. Rest of the crew and passengers rightfully felt threatened and immediately led to a coup and managed to put a new Captain who happened to be Orange Grump.
Orange grump however said he is going to fix the hole by applying radioactive material to the hole to stop the water gushing in. It so happened that the ship was carrying some material in special containers.
When some crew protested, Captain Grumps supporter immediately said "Where were you when Captain Sleepyhead was making these holes? It is now our turn to be reckless".
Wise people get the point.
What a shit analogy.
So deportation of illegals is dangerous akin to nuclear waste? Lol.
It so happened there was a passenger who said
> You are saying it is dangerous to plug the hole in the ship's hull ? Captain Drump is saving this ship.
What analogy?
It's the parable of the Storm on the Sea of America as told by the Federalist Society to the Heritagites
Bullshit. Fuck off and take your fake website with you, asshole.
Cool story fag.
And I thought Jeff's bear in a trunk was a retarded analogy.
It must be painful to be as stupid as you appear to be.
Wise people? Dude, it was a stupid analogy you beat us over the head with. If you think it takes "wise" people to get your point, you're a dunce.
I hate the "the other guy did bad things so it's okay that our guy does bad things, too" argument. Maybe we should elect somebody who won't do any bad things?
Also, you do know that our economy would collapse if every illegal was deported, right? Did you see what happened to the farms in Georgia when they tried to get rid of all of the illegals? What we need is a better process to bring in seasonal laborers to do the jobs that Americans don't want to do.
You're inferring wrong. I am saying that another guy's illegal actions created a problem involving millions of people violating our laws. It takes a lot of work to clean up that mess. All the "due process" I care about is positively identifying an illegal immigrant and kicking them out in short order. Due process isn't allowing a crime to be perpetuated indefinitely as resources are burned to file a litany of appeals that fail to meet any reasonable justification.
I'm not arguing against due process. I'm arguing against a process that makes laws irrelevant and justice impossible
"...All the "due process" I care about is positively identifying an illegal immigrant and kicking them out in short order..."
They are here illegally; they are criminals. Deport them NOW!
"our economy would collapse". Hahahahaha!!!! Now that's stupid.
No one disputes that Biden did fuck-all to stop people from coming in to the country. Many more came in under his tenure than under Trump's first, but Biden was certainly not the only President to ever allow it to happen. There are millions of illegals who have been here for decades. Some immigrants came here legally. Some came in illegally in an effort to escape danger, and were then granted asylum. Some are legal residents, some on student visas, some on H1-B or other employment visas. I realize MAGAts believe anyone with a foreign accent is a member of MS-13, but regardless of your own paranoia, there are people here for good reasons. Due process is how we figure that shit out. Doing things that affect real peoples' lives without bothering to see if what you are doing is justified isn't making America great again. It does make easy to spot the assholes though.
"...but Biden was certainly not the only President to ever allow it to happen..."
Irrelevancy, nonthinksman.
Oh, douche bag much? No, shithead. MAGA doesn't want illegals here regardless of their fucking accent. Take your "racism is my answer to everything" low IQ beliefs and shove them up your ass.
We don't care their good reasons. They are here ILLEGALLY! Do you not fucking understand the concept? EVERYONE has a good fucking reason for everything they do!
Biden stripped due process entirely from January 6 defendants, with many held longer than is legal before arraignment, denial of attorney and family visits and even medical care. Biden stripped the due process restored under Trump from Title IX proceedings at universities, resulting in the railroading of young men.
But you went pretty damn easy on him, compared with the way you used to evenhandedly cover abuses by both sides.
The new Reason slogan - actually quite some years overdue, should be, "If you used to love this magazine, you might still like a post here and there, so please re-subscribe!"
I subscribed for a long, long time, but not now and never again. You no longer deserve my money.
You are no longer even handed, and without that, you've no credibility left.
Biden stripped due process entirely from January 6 defendants
Liar. But even if it were true, how is that a defence of what Trump is doing?
A. It is true you fucking leftist moron.
B. Garcia had final deportation orders you fucking leftist moron
The Left doesn't care about due process for citizens, goes out of their way to bitch about illegal aliens and terrorists... Wonders why their approval ratings are at an all time low.
It doesn't matter what the left believes. What matters is that the regime is denying due process to Garcia and others. To bring up Biden, the left, the J6 rioters, etc. is pure deflection.
“I demand that you stop holding us to any moral or logical standards!”
Was he given final deportation orders? Yes or no shrike.
He doesn’t care.
If you actually read the whole comment (assuming you can read), you'd have known it wasn't a defense of Trump or his actions, but an indictment of Reason Magazine.
Illiterate moron.
Fuck off, you lying POS. You claimed that Biden denied due process to the J6 rioters. It was a lie. I don't have to address every point you made in your whining about Reason.
It's funny how many cultists keep bitching and moaning about Reason, yet keep infesting this place.
It wasn't a lie. You can check. I kept up. In one case the defendant was extradited to DC, and the time limit to file charges expired, but the feds kept him anyway, and the DC judge let them, despite the clear wording of the relevant statute.
Leftists on believe in revolutionary truth.
Rather, their "lived truth" trumps (!) facts.
Trump needs no defense. His actions are within existing law. Period. We know you don’t like that, as you are an international socialist, or an InterNazi.
"If you used to love this magazine, you might still like a post here and there, so please re-subscribe!"
We see what's happened. The question is why.
Why would people with another agenda want to be identified with the former one here? It didn't seem that valuable. It's like, why would the maker of a luxury car model want to take over the Lada brand?
While this is not true, the J6 and Trump's trial was more of a lawfare than a genuine search for justice.
But we need to remember that all of us, irrespective of which political party we support are extremely weak against the power of the state. The due process exists for all the citizens to be protected by governments and wider it is applied better it is for the citizens.
It is in the interest of an average US citizen to demand due process to everyone including illegal immigrants and gang member.
Lack of due process actually benefits the real criminals and gang members. The government officials can hide behind lack of due process and go after ordinary people by labelling them as gang members, show excellent statistics while actually totally ignoring the real harmful criminals that require to be treated with hammer of justice.
What the fuck do you think court hearings are. It isn't like Biden threw people in jail without trial. If you have to manufacture bullshit whataboutisms in order to make your point you have no point.
This is so much like CA-law that entitled their trespassers so much people just started squatting in empty-houses and ended up being entitled to those houses someone else owns.
How much 'due process' is required to kick someone out of your house?
They demand the same process as house squatters. Borders and property doesn't exist to Marxists at reason.
Abrego Garcia's wife defended her husband: "Kilmar has always been a loving partner and father, and I will continue to stand by him and demand justice for him."
His wife literally sought a restraining order against him for beating her in 2021.
The democrats really know how to pick their heroes.
Beating women and pointing guns at pregnant bellies is the hill to die on.
This kind of trash really IS their hero. Look at how democrats swoon for a cold blooded executioner like Luigi Mangiome.
It’s time to cleanse America of the democrat party.
They are also fans of pedophiles, based on their hatred of Rittenhouse killing one is anything to go by.
Really?
I have not read that.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wife-deported-maryland-man-abrego-garcia-hit-scratched/story?id=120882240
And DHS just released the Maryland police report on Garcia when he was picked up.
Abrego-Garcia was loitering with three other men either known or suspected MS-13
One of the men had an extensive and violent criminal history, including a conviction four months prior for MS-13 gang activity
Abrego-Garcia and another man at the scene were "detained in connection to a murder investigation."
Two bottles with marijuana inside were recovered at the scene
Abrego-Garcia was in attire associated with MS-13 members, those being a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie with rolls of money covering the eyes, ears, and nose of the presidents on the separate denominations (meaning, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil - in other words, don't snitch)
A confidential informant advised Prince Georges County investigators that Abrego-Garcia was a member of the MS-13 Westerns clique
The confidential informant said that Abrego-Garcia held the rank of "Chequeo" and the "moniker of 'Chele.'"
Abrego-Garcia admitted that he entered the US illegally in 2012 through McAllen, TX, and was a citizen of El Salvador.
While no criminal record was found, Abrego-Garcia had received numerous traffic violations for which he never appeared in court.
One section of the report says Abrego-Garcia did not claim to be fearful of returning to El Salvador, but another section states that he did claim to be fearful.
https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2025/04/16/new-info-about-kilmar-abrego-garcias-arrest-and-who-he-was-with-should-humiliate-dems-but-it-wont-n2187951
I have a problem with basing stuff off of “confidential informants”, mostly cause you get a lot of bullshit like that couple in Houston a few years ago.
Civil rules of evidence here, not criminal.
Anyone with a spouse who sought a restraining order doesn't deserve due process. Great point. Due process is not a right. It's a privilege to be granted by the government. Like life, liberty and such. All privileges.
Hits a little too close to home for you?
+1
Sarc is telling us why his ex left him.
We already know CPS visited him due to his actions against his daughter.
And yes retard, domestic violence voids green cards and visas. Which this gang member didn't even have.
He had due process 4 times by my count at this point. 2 immigration judges. 2 police interactions from beating his wife.
Your criminal hero received his due process in 2019. Twice.
I'm not the one worshiping at the altar of a convicted felon.
Funny how you Trump defenders say the law is the law is the law unless it applies to Trump. Then it's lawfare.
Lol. And sarc goes full maddow. Weird a week ago he didn't say he was celebrating that piece of lawfare against Trump.
Sarc is a Democrat.
The law here says Garcia was ordered deported retard.
He's not asking you to do that. He's just asking you to acknowledge that he did in fact go before the immigration court.
I'm not the one worshiping at the altar of a convicted felon.
#34orange_felonies!!
Maybe people cry foul cause that case, the Law&Order SVU case, and the property valuation case were all obviously unmitigated bullshit?
Funny thing about the property valuation case, looks like Leticia James did the same thing she prosecuted Trump for.
The left really does accuse you of what they are doing.
https://x.com/DHSgov/status/1912567112733753563
And Ivana Trump once said Donald raped her. All you're doing is making the point that people should have their day in court before they are subject to punishment by the federal government
Something doesnt make sense.
America is the only country where there's school shootings and gang violence. People point out that every time there is a mass shooting, it only happens in America and doesn't happen in civilized countries.
So why would Garcia seek asylum here. Shouldn't he have sought asylum in a civilized country like Singapore?
Very good point.
The Hate America First crowd seems to actually welcome mibgrants instead of warning them to stay away!
What doesn't make sense is the federal government treating allegations as fact and imprisoning or deporting people based on a claim which even they have said was a mistake. You fuck up, you own it and make it right. Unless you're a total piece of shit. Which kind of makes this a cyclical argument.
1. Don't care about deportations one way or another; each admin will be strict or lenient as they see fit. Usually based on the political mood at the moment, which is too say democracy.
2. Dude shouldn't be locked up in super max if he hasn't been convicted of serious crimes (murder, rape, extortion...). Especially so since the US taxpayer is paying for this.
He left elsalvador because he has a long wrapsheet there. This was ajudicated in2019
Adjudicated?
As in due process?
Due process is leftist.
He had due process retard.
"He had due process..."
And the judge granted him temporary protected status, which the government just ignored. If you go to court and are found innocent should the government still be able to lock you up? I can't believe the same people who claim the second amendment protects them fro a tyrannical government and then go ahead and support tyranny anyway. What the fuck is the point of your gun then? Don't you get that the gripe is not about wanting to protect a gang member. The gripe is that he was never proven to be a gang member, regardless of was that tiny fuck-in-the-mouth Stephen Miller barks as he twitches.
Yes. Twice.
Two different judges declared him an MS13 gang member.
Why are people still acting ignorant about this?
They aren’t ignorant, they’re lying.
He left elsalvador because he has a long wrapsheet there.
Can anyone verify this? The only information I can find contradicts this saying he was never convicted of a crime in the US or El Salvador.
Judge Xinis has said Mr Ábrego García has no criminal record in the US or El Salvador
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20z63gr8mzo
No, no one can verify this. If anything had been verified there would be no outcry. If he had been proven in court to be a gang member no one would look sideways at his deportation. This was never about deporting a criminal. It was always about there being no evidence besides what that little bald fuck Stephen Miller asserted.
The reporting I read said that he left El Salvador due to threats by gang members trying to extort protection money from the family business.
Maybe the article left some things out, I do not know.
Obviously the reporting you read was leftist because it conflicts with the narrative. You should know by now that any facts that contradict the narrative are to be ignored because they're leftist.
The reporting he read was his defense lawyers retard. You have zero interest in the facts.
I simply have learned to distrust reporting directed against Trump because it has turned out too many times that important facts were elided from the story in order to make the narrative sound better.
If reporters could refrain from gilding the lily, I might not be so skeptical.
I have learned to distrust anything coming from pro-Trump people because they take great pride in lying by omission.
It really hurts you that a fellow child abuser got justice, doesn’t it?
The article you read is reporting his lawyers version. Posted the actual contents of the court case in 2019 above.
The reporting I read said that he left El Salvador due to threats by gang members trying to extort protection money from the family business.
Weird that the whole family didn't come here for asylum. They must all be dead by now, right? Or, lying gang-banging, illegal alien is a liar?
Criminally convicted in a USA court of a serious felony? Otherwise we shouldn't be paying for his detention in El Salvador. It's that simple. If he committed crimes in El Salvador then that is on them to punish and pay for his detention as they see fit.
He had final deportation orders. He has zero right to be funded by or be in the United States.
He is now in the country he is a citizen of. In the judicial system they are in control of.
The US is paying for detention of Venezuelans. Not el Salvadorians.
He is an El Salvadorian. In El Salvador. Where Bukele has locked up gang members for years.
We should not be dictating El Salvadorian legal policy.
Was he criminally convicted of a crime by the USA or state government? If not, we shouldn't pay for his detention.
I am not advocating for us to be involved in El Salvador's legal system, Trump is though by paying them with our tax dollars to lock up their criminals.
You keep asking a question that has zero actual relevance to anything.
He was given final deportation orders. He is in his country of citizenship. Why keep asking nonsense questions?
Do you actually even care what the judicial process for removal of his withholding order was? A single interview with CIS.
Wr aren't paying for his detention. The US is paying for the detention of the Venezuelans. TdA. Due to maduro refusing repatriation. El Salvador holds sole jurisdiction for MS13 Rl Salvadorians. They were just deported.
You are advocating for the US to be involved. And asking questions with no relevance.
Yes, he was.
Both an original court and an appeal court found he was an illegal entrant to the US, and subject to deportation (just not to El Salvador).
He got all the process due an illegal entrant.
I would agree he should not be in El Salvador, but it is just as true he should not be un the US.
You said nothing when Biden exposed millions to what is going on now. Let them as illegals, keep them as illegals. To me you are the worst kind of hypocrite
"Whatabout Democrats doing it first you hypocrite! So shut up about Trump! He can do what he wants! Besides, whatabout illegals, huh? Whatabout! Whatabout whatabout whatabout! What! A! Bout!
Whatabout!"
Ideas™ !
Well, retarded ideas.
Glad to see you've now merged with your SQRLSY sock.
Hey Joe how much of your money goes to paying for these illegals. If the answer is anything less then all of it fuck off. You want to push costs on us while you virtue signal thinking your a superior being. You are evil
AFAICT, free speech, free association, free religion, free expression on the internet, bodily autonomy, private ownership, education, public infrastructure, technology, diversity and sex/race relations, and science have all been far more grievously, if not mortally, wounded from being poisoned and stabbed repeatedly in the back by Reason and DNC-sympathetic news outlets for at least 8, if not 16, if not 30+ yrs. than they have by any frontal assault from Conservatives/Republicans.
Taxation, spending, and gun control are about the only issues where frontal assaults have made clear progress and Conservatives/Republicans are only fractionally responsible on those.
The boxes of liberty work both ways. The ammo box is not the only means by which people lose life and liberty.
ouch. this. ^^
Due process has been and will always be weaponized by the D's.
They abuse the system with the explicit cooperation and support of the deep state, academia, news media, cultural media etc... and they when corrections are attempted the 'due process' is invoked to gum up the works and prevent meaningful correction.
We see that with deportation of illegals, each and every individual will need a personal review ... every one of the 20million plus... before anything can be done to ship them out. Why? 'due process'. Of course - letting 20-40 million in illegally was not following due process... but THAT was ok. Now that you want to fix it... sorry! follow due process.
Yes - we need to follow due process... in its best form it is there to protect the republic. But this is why the ratchet is only going one way. D's get to abuse it while bad actors provide cover.... and correction becomes effectively impossible. Also ... probably 70% of due process that is being invoked is undoubtedly bogus and added as chaff for distraction and to further gum up the works. Thats why it takes 20+ years to execute self-confessed serial killers or mass murderers.
"You didn't complain when Democrats did it you hypocrite! That makes anything Trump does ok!"
Poor sarc
You literally just called Trump a felon for a law even Sullum refuses to agree to. You defended 20 years for even non violent J6Ers.
didnt say that... just pointing out why there is the frustration and tolerance for the 'elasticity' in interpreting how to follow due process.
They overload the system by ignoring due process and then demand the cleanup abide by the due process you got a pass on to destroy the system.
That elasticity is built in to the so-called Rule of Law, which is always interpreted by Men, thereby becoming Rule of Men. The only practical difference between judges in robes and knights in armor is that knights make their decisions faster.
What is the use of written laws when judges can strike down parts of them on their own without involving legislators? Strike them down entirely, or leave them alone; anything else is literally legislating from the bench.
What is the use of precedent when courts can change it on a whim 20 years later?
What does Due Process mean when Congress and the courts can define even the slackest of procedures as due process? "We took six months to decide you didn't follow Rule 28(a)(7), and oh gosh, what a shame, the time limit of filing an appeal has expired, too bad, so sad."
Rule of Law is a fig leaf covering the naughty bits called Rule of Men.
^THIS is the bug they are calling a feature now.
It's not just the D's, it's the statists. More D's than R's are statists, so they get most of the blame, but plenty of R's like the power of the State too.
Then sarc whines like a baby because D's have set themselves up as the party of the statists and properly get blamed for the crap they pulled.
I can’t disagree with this take. Well put.
It goes back before Biden and immigration. Look at all this woke shit at universities. Look at all the COVID lockdowns.
The problem is, and always has been, government. Dems gut the Second Amendment seemingly every day. Where was due process for all the j6 trespassers? What happened to the Constitution's requirement that revenue bills originate in the House when the Senate gutted a House bill to reuse for Obamacare?
I'll believe the anti-Trumpers are serious about reining in government when they try to actually rein in government, itself, and not just the current occupant's application of government power.
As to whether Trumpies give a shit about due process, whiners ought to pay a little more attention to how lawyers twist words into legal jargon. The Rule of Law and Due Process are both just separate examples of "it means what the judges say today, not yesterday, and not tomorrow." Due process has nothing to do with fairness. It means following whatever ritual the courts have settled on. Eugene Volokh likes to say lawyers' true super power is turning every question into a question of procedure.
You didn't follow rule 28(a)(7) in your brief? Great, we'll take six months to decide that, because we're not in the mood to actually decide the merits of your case. But you got your due process, so suck it.
You appealed to the wrong court, and by the time that court decided they were the wrong court a year later, the time allowed to appeal had expired. Too bad, so sad.
Oh, you were in jail and the county sent their back taxes complaint to where you lived six years ago so you never saw it? Oh gee, no, demolishing your house wasn't a taking, they gave you proper notice. There's your due process.
Fuck government. That's the problem. Always has been, always will be. The current occupant is just another in a long line of occupants.
Fire KMW.
Get out of DC.
Publish some principled libertarian content.
I'll believe the anti-Trumpers are serious about reining in government when they try to actually rein in government, itself, and not just the current occupant's application of government power.
I'll believe the pro-Trumpers are serious about reigning in government power when they don't react with hostility towards anyone who wants to change the law instead of flouting it.
Idiot. "Reigning in" does not mean what you want us to think you mean. Fuck off, sycophant. If you want your vaunted discussion, respond as in a discussion. Stop hijacking threads for your tired old partisan rant.
I'm stating that we have a government of laws, not a government of men. That means that if you want to reign in government power, the laws must be changed. Interesting that you are so hostile to that concept. That tells me that you have no interest in reigning in the government. No interest at all. And then you call me partisan? If I was partisan then you'd see me praising my team. But I don't praise either team because I don't have a team. Meanwhile you, with the exception of economics, are indistinguishable from Jesse. You couldn't be more of a toady if you tried. So fuck you and your pretended concern about government power. You're a piece of shit liar who always argues in bad faith, just like Jesse.
We do not. Men interpret laws. Men change their minds on a whim. We do not have Rule of Laws.
I didn't say rule of law. I said we have a government of laws. So you're lying right off the bat just like Jesse. Always bad faith, just like Jesse. With the exception of economics you two may as well be the same despicable waste of carbon. Let's see what your next lies are, Jesse Junior.
You actually think a quibble like that leads to fruitful discussions? And who do you think you are insulting -- me? Jesse? More like you've insulted yourself with such a transparent quibble.
What is the difference between rule of law and government of laws? Explain. I doubt you can. You will fall back on some nonsense about me being too damned stupid and you won't waste your time.
When did you ever engage in a fruitful discussion? You just attack people and lie about what they say, which is why I call you Jesse Junior.
Government power comes from laws. Yes laws are subject to interpretation, but they have to exist to be interpreted. If you want to reign in government power, you must change or eliminate the laws that give it power. Without the laws then there is no excuse. Yet you attack anyone who suggests that. Why? Only thing that makes sense is that you're a mendacious piece of garbage like Jesse. Can't have a fruitful discussion with you because you're a liar who argues in bad faith, just like Jesse. So fuck off you dishonest piece of shit. Pretend to have principles to someone else, because I see right through your bullshit.
In other words, you cannot tell the difference between government of laws and rule of laws; they are the same.
Then use shift into how to change laws while leaving the broken system in place.
What laws are being flouted? Every EO has the legal justification in it.
You've been told this dozens of times. Which means your argument is one of narrative but facts.
The story yesterday about the guy whose Cadillac was stolen by the city is a good example. He got years of due process and a big FYTW in the end after he died of old age. But we have to give 20 million illegals the same magical due process to satisfy Reason. That could drag on into the next century. Which is probably the real goal.
It’s 100% the goal of open borders zealots. Has been since the 80’s at least.
We might not be here if they hadn’t kept kicking the damn can down the road.
"who had previously been granted a reprieve from deportation"
A flat out lie. Welcome to Reason.
All that court said was he could not be deported to EL Salvador.
Anywhere else on the planet except the US or El Salvador.
after that ruling the Biden admin quit pursuing the next steps of due process
So why is he in El Salvador?
He's their citizen. Courts cannot mandate where somebody can be sent to if their proven members of a designated terrorist organization --- which he is. The US, honestly, has no right to refuse to repatriate a person back to his home country if here illegally.
Do not get why you're going to bat for a criminal so hard, but you do you.
*deleted comment*..duplicated comment in wrong section
There is much to oppose in that action
Like what?
JD Vance tweet in full:
Consider that Joe Biden allowed approximately 20 million illegal aliens into our country. This placed extraordinary burdens on our country--our schools, hospitals, housing, and other essential services were overwhelmed. On top of that, many of these illegal aliens committed violent crimes, or facilitated fentanyl and sex trafficking. That is the situation we inherited.
The American people elected the Trump administration to solve this problem. The President has successfully stopped the inflow of illegal aliens, and now we must deport the people who came here illegally.
To say the administration must observe "due process" is to beg the question: what process is due is a function of our resources, the public interest, the status of the accused, the proposed punishment, and so many other factors. To put it in concrete terms, imposing the death penalty on an American citizen requires more legal process than deporting an illegal alien to their country of origin.
When the media and the far left obsess over an MS-13 gang member and demand that he be returned to the United States for a *third* deportation hearing, what they're really saying is they want the vast majority of illegal aliens to stay here permanently.
Here's a useful test: ask the people weeping over the lack of due process what precisely they propose for dealing with Biden's millions and millions of illegals. And with reasonable resource and administrative judge constraints, does their solution allow us to deport at least a few million people per year?
If the answer is no, they've given their game away. They don't want border security. They don't want us to deport the people who've come into our country illegally. They want to accomplish through fake legal process what they failed to accomplish politically:
The ratification of Biden's illegal migrant invasion.
President Trump and I will not stand fori t. (sic)
https://www.npr.org/2025/04/07/nx-s1-5308051/deportation-timeline-cost
"Immigration law decisions, including whether someone gets a final removal order, fall under the Executive Office for Immigration Review within the Justice Department. That office had more than 4 million pending cases in the last quarter of 2024."
""People referred to the immigration courts might end up waiting years before they have a hearing determining their case," said Bush-Joseph, from the Migration Policy Institute. "And when someone files for asylum, those cases can actually take even longer because of the complex nature of the claims."
"As of the last quarter of 2024, there were 1.5 million pending asylum cases in immigration court and 1 million with the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services."
"About 1.4 million people have pending deportation orders, according to ICE, but there are challenges to sending many back to their home countries. One reason is that their home countries have not agreed to accept them."
More than one journalist slammed Vance’s notion of ‘jury hearings’ for immigrants including Leighton Woodhouse, who replied to Vance: “You're well aware that immigration courts aren't ‘jury hearings.’ They typically last a matter of minutes, often with no defense counsel present. You're deliberately misleading people into believing we'd be burdened with millions of OJ Simpson trials instead of the rocket docket that immigration courts are.”
Vance replied to Woodhouse: “Are you aware that years before Biden's migrant wave, this system was already overwhelmed? Now, you cavalierly assume that they can ‘rocket docket’ themselves into a solution despite all actual evidence to the contrary, because sometimes a deportation order can be handled in ‘minutes.’ I'm sick of abstract bull[expletive] arguments. What your proposal does, whether you know it or not, is ratify the presence of millions of illegals aliens in our country. I reject that.”
Woodhouse, who directed the 2017 documentary Trumpland: Kill All Normies, replied: “Yes I’m aware that before Biden the immigration courts were overwhelmed, because I went to those immigration courts in LA and reported on it during Trump’s first term, when he was deporting a hell of a lot more people than he is now. Have you ever personally watched an immigration hearing, JD?
“What you’re literally arguing is that Trump’s electoral mandate is to ignore due process. That Americans voted for him to not follow the law. Let me ask you this, as a lawyer: If there’s no due process for illegal immigrants, how am I as a US citizen protected against your administration accusing me of being a foreign-born criminal and deporting me to El Salvador? Who am I going to show my US birth certificate to? Is the arresting ICE agent in effect my judge?”
Too much "what-aboutism" from the Team Red members of the commentariat; this is supposed to be a libertarian community on Reason. It sucks when it's from Team Blue and it sucks just as bad when it's from Team Red.
The Constitution limits government action, Period. Not just for citizens, but for ALL people. Even some druggie wetback gets due process, lest we start deporting "accidentally" American citizens that we find abhorrent. I don't like it, but no one has yet to demonstrate a better way to guarantee the natural rights of the 99.99% of us who try to hew with the grain.
"Due process" does not mean a lengthy court hearing. That is one TYPE of due process, but it is not the only one.
The thug deported here GOT due process. Years ago. He does not get MORE.
I love when team blue pretends to be team neutral but isn't fooling anyone.
Bingo. The proper Libertarian answer is that it's wrong whether the Republicrats or the Demopublicans are doing it. The legacy duopoly is so two-faced in that when they're in power, they're in favor of whatever they want to do, and when they're out of power, they're suddenly against it when the other side wants to do it. It's wrong on all sides.
No, lying pile of lefty shit the proper answer is that he is a criminal, here illegally. Deport him.
GUARDS! Someone is shouting "fire" in crowded theater!!
It's amazing how this case has made every apologist, lilly-white journalist an expert on gang paraphernalia.
Wow. Racist much? White people can't be expert on gangs?
Shame on you.
Journalists are just failed English majors.
Slightly better than teachers, but not by much.
Collectivism is about gangs as opposed to individuals.
"The government, however, has provided no evidence, to a grand jury or to a magistrate or to any third party, that it is true."
I call bullshit.
In 2019, an immigration judge deemed Garcia a member of the MS-13 and ordered his deportation.
So, Garcia's due process rights were not violated and his return to El Salvador is justified.
Only a complete leftist idiot would believe otherwise.
How much column space did this rag give to the extrajudicial droning death of American Citizen Anwar al Awaki?
Like this adjudicated criminal gang member with a lawful deportation order, an unsympathetic figure. Did the congressman from his home district fly to the Middle East to find his body? Of course not.
Now how about the extrajudicial killing of his 16yo son Abdulrahman weeks later? Wholly unjustified.
GFYs, you concern trolls. Reason is basically a Residtance mouthpiece with 0 credibility.
While "due process" is a fine goal, I'd like to point out that the legal process is hugely unfair and is commonly used to punish and intimidate the normal citizen. This is common right to left and top to bottom. Reason itself has a lot of examples in its files.
Joe Lancaster's increasing hostility to the truth makes it clear he's a steaming pile of lying TDS-addled shit.
Vance's claim that "due process" is an impairment to the executive's goals is the executive's problem. Due process is an impairment for all governments everywhere. Due process is a protection for humanity against injustice. If the executive's goals clash with justice, perhaps it is the executive that needs to be deported or replaced.
"Vance's claim that "due process" is an impairment to the executive's goals is the executive's problem."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Vance's claim is that your definition of "due process" is bullshit. The man was here illegally, was seen as a probably gang member and was deported under that required "due process" sufficiency.
Neither you, nor he, nor any other steaming pile of lefty shit get to invent huge bureaucratic impediments to deporting those CRIMINALLY residing in the US.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Due process is the euphemism for what is left after individual rights have been successfully abolished. Would you like a cigarette and blindfold with your firing squad?
He was not granted a reprieve from deportation. He was granted a stay of deportation back to El Salvador. He should have been deported somewhere else immediately, but then other countries have ACTUAL laws preventing illegals from coming into THEIR countries. Oh wait, we do to, you just don't give a shit about those. And that was 2019! DHS is well within its right to rescind any stay of deportation, as well. Story is as follows: El Salvador citizen who was in the US illegally now back in El Salvador. The end. If you don't want to go to jail stop breaking the f****** law!!!!
"...El Salvador citizen who was in the US illegally now back in El Salvador. The end. If you don't want to go to jail stop breaking the f****** law!!!"
That would be a good idea if you wish to remain where you are at the pleasure of others who really don't give a shit about the desires of one more illegal immigrant.
Do you know the difference between Reason and all the other hyperventilating media? There isn't any. There used to be, but not anymore. Reason is interchangeable with CNN, MSNBC, PBS and NPR.
All of a sudden, it's all about 'due process'. Where was due process on J6? Where was it in any of the Trump persecution? Well, yes, there WAS due process. Democrat judges and democrat prosecutors held trials in democrat controlled districts, and we're all supposed to accept that it was 'due process."
I will never vote democrat again. And this garbage that Reason is publishing is just another reason why not.
Due process? These people did not respect the “process” when they entered our country. They didn’t apply for a visa. They didn’t subject themselves to background checks. They didn’t provide for their own financial support. They just walked in. If they can just walk in, we can just walk them back out. They are NOT Americans. Screw their due process.
Once libertarian parties are represented in governing bodies of every nation, we should be able to safely dispense with a lot of paranoid hedges against diasporas from looter satrapies and exportation of fifth columns.
Another Austrian Christian National Socialist leader got around such obstructionist machinations by getting the Reichstag to pass the Law to Remedy the Distress of the People and the Reich in 1933.