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Ukraine

Say Thank You

Plus: Change in Russia policy, Matt Taibbi interview, Dems try gun shows, and more...

Liz Wolfe | 3.3.2025 9:30 AM

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Ukrainian President Zelenskyy and President Trump in the Oval Office | POU/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(POU/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Donald Trump: Zelenskyy had been invited to the Oval Office for a press conference related to the signing of a rare earth minerals deal between Ukraine and the United States, through which America could maybe begin to recoup some of its funding of Ukraine's defense. Now, the deal has fallen apart, and relations look mighty fragile. Transcript and clips below, so you can make up your own mind. (Video of full meeting here.)

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Vance: "For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States' words mattered more than the president of the United States' actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That's what President Trump is doing."

Zelenskyy: "Can I ask you?"

Vance: "Sure. Yeah."

Zelenskyy: "OK. So he [Putin] occupied it, our parts, big parts of Ukraine, parts of east and Crimea. So he occupied it in 2014. So during a lot of years—I'm not speaking about just Biden, but those times was [Barack] Obama, then President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump. And God bless, now, President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people. You know what the—"

Trump: "2015?"

Zelenskyy: "2014."

Trump: "Oh, 2014? I was not here."

Vance: "That's exactly right."

Zelenskyy: "Yes, but during 2014 till 2022, the situation is the same, that people have been dying on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that we had conversations with him, a lot of conversations, my bilateral conversation. And we signed with him, me, like, you, president, in 2019, I signed with him the deal. I signed with him, [French President Emmanuel] Macron and [former German Chancellor Angela] Merkel. We signed ceasefire. Ceasefire. All of them told me that he will never go….But after that, he broke the ceasefire, he killed our people, and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange of prisoners. But he didn't do it. What kind of diplomacy, J.D., you are speaking about? What do you mean?"

Vance: "I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media. Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict."

(Video of the above here.)

Then a little bit later:

Zelenskyy: "First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don't feel now. But you will feel it in the future. God bless—"

Trump: "You don't know that. You don't know that. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel."

Zelenskyy: "I'm not telling you. I am answering on these questions."

Trump: "Because you're in no position to dictate that."

Vance: "That's exactly what you're doing."

Trump: "You are in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. We're going to feel very good."

Zelenskyy: "You will feel influenced."

Trump: "We are going to feel very good and very strong."

Trump: "You're not in a good position. You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards."

Zelenskyy: "I'm not playing cards. I'm very serious, Mr. President. I'm very serious."

Trump: "You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III."

Zelenskyy: "What are you speaking about?"

Trump: "You're gambling with World War III. And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country that's backed you far more than a lot of people said they should have."

Vance: "Have you said thank you once?"

Zelenskyy: "A lot of times. Even today."

Vance: "No, in this entire meeting. You went to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October."

Zelenskyy: "No."

Vance: "Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who's trying to save your country."

Zelenskyy: "Please. You think that if you will speak very loudly about the war, you can—"

Trump: "He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble."

Zelenskyy: "Can I answer—"

Trump: "No, no. You've done a lot of talking. Your country is in big trouble."

Zelenskyy: "I know. I know."

Trump: "You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out OK because of us."

Reactions around the web: "What unfolded between Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance turned into a political Rorschach test," writes Eli Lake for The Free Press. "For Trump's base, the 50-minute exchange was proof positive of America First foreign policy—an ungrateful freeloader gets upbraided by the populist tribune. For Americans who still cling to the now unfashionable notion that the international system should be ruled by rules and not might, Friday's incident was a horror. From the perspective of Europe, it's the beginning of the end of the transatlantic alliance."

On that note, "libertarians, progressives, and national conservatives who've been pining for a de-Americanization of European military security are experiencing their most newsworthy week on that front in at least three decades," wrote Reason's Matt Welch on Friday, before the verbal fisticuffs. "The Trump administration's ongoing negotiations and public messaging around a potential Russia-Ukraine peace deal, along with the weekend electoral victory of Germany's Christian Democratic Union (CDU), have led to the bluntest talk since April 1993 about a future without Washington's mutual defense commitments to the easternmost members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO)." Now, this assessment looks even more correct; something is about to change, and the souring of relations between Trump and Zelenskyy—which seemed awfully architected by Vance—lends credence to the idea that Ukraine will need to rely on someone other than the U.S.

Both French President Emmanuel Macron and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer recently announced increases in defense spending; "I am very curious to see how we are heading toward the NATO summit at the end of June," said German Chancellor-to-be Friedrich Merz recently, who also seems on board with more defense spending. "Whether we will still be talking about NATO in its current form or whether we will have to establish an independent European defense capability much more quickly." "The E.U. as a united political force no longer exists" is the line from Russian state media.

"The president's verbal assault on Mr. Zelensky was a stunning display of anger and resentment toward the leader of a country that has been invaded by a larger power intent on eliminating it as an independent state" is how The New York Times puts it. "No other president in memory has lashed out at a visiting foreign leader in the Oval Office on camera in such a vituperative way, not even at an adversary of the United States, much less a putative ally." I don't think the apoplectic mainstream media reaction is quite correct: Both Trump and Zelenskyy behaved poorly, not to mention Vance, who appears to have a future as a foreign policy pot-stirrer. That said, if you're Vance and you're trying to achieve the foreign policy objective of massively reducing or totally cutting American support for Ukrainian defense, this would be one way to go about it.

Now, in another escalation, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has asked the U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations toward Russia.


Scenes from New York: New York Dolls frontman David Johansen, who was huge in the '70s punk scene (and majorly influenced Morrissey), died over the weekend at his home on Staten Island.


QUICK HITS

  • Watch the latest Just Asking Questions ft. Matt Taibbi:

  • Here's him breaking down the 60 Minutes segment on German hate speech laws:

  • The movie Anora, directed by Sean Baker, won an Academy Award for best original screenplay, as well as best picture (and best actress for Mikey Madison, who plays Ani). In his speech, Baker thanked his cast, the crew, and "the sex worker community"—a frequent fascination of his, explored in the aforementioned as well as his former works (Tangerine, The Florida Project). "They have shared their stories, their life experience with me over the years," he said. "They have my deepest respect."
  • Dems try to pivot to gun shows and tailgates:

New @playbookdc: Last month, a group of moderate Democratic consultants, campaign staffers, elected officials & party leaders gathered in Loudoun County, Virginia, for a retreat where they plotted their party's comeback.

We got their takeaways. pic.twitter.com/lA1nVshriG

— Adam Wren (@adamwren) March 2, 2025

  • "President Donald Trump is on the verge of slapping new tariffs on Canada and Mexico while doubling a levy on China, moves that would dramatically expand his push to revive domestic manufacturing, tap new revenues and rebalance ties with the biggest US trading partners," reports Bloomberg. "The long-promised tariffs scheduled to take effect Tuesday would easily be among the most sweeping of the Trump era, applying to roughly $1.5 trillion in annual imports. They would put a 25% tariff on all imports from Canada and Mexico, except Canadian energy, which would face a 10% rate. He has also said he'll double a tariff on China to 20%."
  • Tulsi Gabbard, the new director of national intelligence, "got the first big thing right," writes Andrew McCarthy in National Review: "protecting our technology industry and all Americans from the Luddite demands of Britain's Labour government."
  • Last week, the U.S. experienced its first measles death in a decade, amid a West Texas outbreak that has made 140 people sick so far (and spilled over into New Mexico). There are also three confirmed cases in Bergen County, New Jersey, so far, as well as two in New York City; a handful of other states are experiencing their own outbreaks as well.

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NEXT: DOGE and Congress Should Look Hard at Reforming Social Security

Liz Wolfe is an associate editor at Reason.

UkraineTrump AdministrationVolodymyr ZelenskyyJ.D. VanceDonald TrumpRussiaVladimir PutinNATOEuropeForeign PolicyPoliticsReason Roundup
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  1. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Donald Trump

    Uh-oh.

    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      How dare they.

      He's a president. Not some bourgeoise American real estate agent and a hillbilly.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        And also a noble righteous freedom warrior. I mean, look at his fighting army man sweater.

        1. Ajsloss   4 months ago

          You know who else had sweet Hugo Boss attire?

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

            David Bowie?

          2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

            90s high school kids?

          3. Dillinger   4 months ago

            Rocky Balboa?

    2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

      Damnit Liz, are you not aware of Zelenskys meeting with Senators right before this where he was encouraged to stand up to Trump?

      1. Kungpowderfinger   4 months ago

        Yeah, not to mention Macron and Starmer trying to set up some bullshit European “peacekeeping force” for Ukraine contingent on a US security guarantee last week.

        I’m guessing the plan was agreed upon by France, UK, and Zelensky, with Zelensky figuring he’d be shaking hands on it with DJT in front of the cameras on Friday. Trump’s not going to fucking war with Russia over Ukraine and whatever bullshit Europe cooks up, which is what sent the press conference off the rails when Zelensky pushed it.

        Or you can believe mainstream news headlines that Vance and the Big Orange Monster just went postal on poor brave Zelensky for no good reason.

        My favorite moment of it was when a reporter asked the little guy if he was going to restore elections in Ukraine. That doesn’t seem to be making the highlight reels much.

      2. mamabug   4 months ago

        That explains a lot. The whole thing seemed about as 'real' as your average 'housewives' fights.

        For the reality tv show that is our political system, the dems were basically the producers telling Z how to increase his screen time.

      3. DrZ   4 months ago

        Thanks eliminated. I was surprised how shallow this article was because the meeting with Democrat reps wasn't included. Looks like we might have a case of TDS here.

  2. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    Mr. President, with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media.

    Whose idea was it for this to be in front of cameras?

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

      Whose idea was it to negotiate in front of the cameras?

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

        The democrats big Z met with before the event.

        1. Commenter_XY   4 months ago

          Well they fucked up, bigly.

          Who in the hell does Zelenskyy think he is? You have your hat in hand, asking for help, dumbass. You don't 'diss' The Donald, or his VP.

          Many young men will dies because of Zelenskyy's arrogance and hubris.

          Europe can deal with UKR. It isn't an American problem.

          1. windycityattorney   4 months ago

            He was there to sign the minerals deal. But that deal didn't get signed. Because Trump and Vance are rude assholes (along with one so-called reporter obsessed with Zelensky not wearing a suit). Zelensky wants security guarantees as part of the deal; Trump thinks the rare earth mineral deal itself is a security guarantee. Zelensky for obvious reasons doesn't believe Putin will honor any agreements that aren't backed with sufficient deterrence measures.

            Who is right here?

            Trump and Vance came off rude and belittling. They put him on a couch with cameras rolling and accuse him of litigating things to the media when he is talking about his personal experience with Putin violating agreements and the US is concerned with him saying thank you enough??? Pathetic.

            1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

              Ukraine is wrong and the US should blow them up and take them over. The facist dictatorship of Ukraine has bombed 2 nato allys

            2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

              Hey not a lawyer. You have basic facts wrong yet again.

              This was the third attempt at the signing. Big Z kept pulling back out of every agreement demanding more and more.

              I'm shocked you didn't learn to learn basic facts before issuing an argument in legal clown college.

              1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                This was the third attempt at the signing. Big Z kept pulling back out of every agreement demanding more and more.

                Maybe he read Art of the Deal.

                Or maybe he didn't want to be extorted with no security guarantee.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                  Or maybe he didn't want to be extorted with no security guarantee.

                  That fucking manlet isn't in a position to make demands anymore. His pimps are out of office and he needs to understand the reality of the situation now.

                  So he can either say "please and thank you," like the good little puppet for the US that he's been since taking office, or he can break things off and start working with Europe on a multi-national defense alliance that doesn't involve us. Good luck getting any more high-end shit that his army has been burning through for the last 3 years, though.

                  1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                    So he can either say "please and thank you," like the good little puppet for the US that he's been since taking office, or he can break things off and start working with Europe on a multi-national defense alliance that doesn't involve us.

                    I agree. It looks like he chose the latter.

                    1. damikesc   4 months ago

                      Good for him. The UK paid him 1% of what Trump was prepared to do on behalf of the USA. They have virtually no ammo, soldiers, or equipment to offer.

                      They will be grand partners, for sure.

                2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                  So he continued to demand more and more. Thanks for confirming sea lion.

                  Oddly he is now agreeing to the deal presented prior to the White House making your comment even more retarded sea lion.

                  1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

                    You misspelled "asshole".

                    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                      All sea lions are fundamentally assholes.

                      They demand you do their work for them due to their lack of intellectual curiosity, then simply ignore or deny the evidence when you do the work for them.

                3. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

                  "...Or maybe he didn't want to be extorted with no security guarantee."

                  Only lying piles of slimy lefty shit claim that requiring pay for goods = "extortion".
                  Fuck off and die, asshole.

                4. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                  Or maybe he didn't want to be extorted with no security guarantee.

                  Oh, is he the one who paid $175 billion for absolutely fucking nothing? You might want to look up the definition of extortion.

                  1. TrickyVic (old school)   4 months ago

                    ""Or maybe he didn't want to be extorted with no security guarantee.""

                    Well this is what you get living in a blue city.

                  2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                    Oh, is he the one who paid $175 billion for absolutely fucking nothing

                    It was given to him by the previous administration, no strings attached, but Trump retroactively demands payment to a nation in a desperate situation. So yes, extortion.

                    1. Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)   4 months ago

                      Biden fucked up.

                    2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Yes. Obama and Biden fucked this up real bad.

                    3. See.More   4 months ago

                      It was given to him by the previous administration, no strings attached...

                      No such thing. While the Biden administration might not have had any overt or explicit "strings attached," there is no way Zelensky was under any delusion that there were "no strings attached." When governments hand out money there are always strings. Sometimes, they're puppet strings.

                5. damikesc   4 months ago

                  He has no leverage to negotiate one and he is not going to receive one.

                  There will be hell to pay if a single American is killed to protect Ukraine's border when the Democrats refuse to protect our own border.

                  1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                    He has no leverage to negotiate one and he is not going to receive one.

                    Yeah. I agree. The deal not working was the best outcome for us. We don't need to be involve at all.

                6. EISTAU Gree-Vance   4 months ago

                  Lol. Clawing back some of the 100s of billions that have been given to this little man for zero benefit is extortion?

                  Maybe little z was extorting sleepy joe and his crime family and the party is over. If you really feel the need to use that word….

            3. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

              What's truly pathetic is your side's manic obsession with taking down Russia because they didn't bow to the queer cult.

              I realize Zelensky was just parroting what his sponsors Victoria Nuland, Susan Rice, Lt Colonel Bearclaw, and Anthony Blinken told him to say, but maybe he needs to realize those pimps don't own him anymore. He's got new ones now.

              Also, let's cut the crap about Z. The guy is an actor, and he's still playing a role. He's not in charge of Ukraine now anymore than he was when he was playing it on teevee.

              1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                I realize Zelensky was just parroting what his sponsors Victoria Nuland, Susan Rice, Lt Colonel Bearclaw, and Anthony Blinken told him to say,

                What is your evidence for this claim?

                It seems like a retcon for Trump and JD's poor performance and failure to make a deal.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                  It was reported in the New York Post, White Mike. You know, the same NY Post that reported on Hunter's laptop and your side went over the top to suppress the story.

                  Looks like you're trying to run the same playbook now, too.

                  It seems like a retcon for Trump and JD's poor performance and failure to make a deal

                  Making excuses for your man Zelensky's grab-assing, I see.

                  1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                    Can you share a link? I can't find anything backing up your claim.

                    1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      Maybe it's because you're a retard, as it's the top link on Google:

                      A common criticism of Volodymyr Zelensky’s disastrous Friday performance in the Oval Office is that he failed to read the room.
                      Actually, the Ukrainian president did read a room — but it was the wrong room.
                      Before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal that the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).
                      “Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday.
                      He attached a picture of Zelensky at a conference table, with Murphy seated on the opposite side.

                      So your position is that Murphy lied?

                    2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Your source doesn't give evidence of your claim.

                      It is an opinion article. It lays out 2 facts:

                      They met with Z. before Trump.
                      Z. said he wasn't going to accept the deal.

                      Where's the part about him doing this because he was advised by these Dems?

                    3. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                      I hate linking this asshole, Chris Murphy, here:

                      https://x.com/chrismurphyct/status/1895508100595204115?s=46&t=qeA47-JjK6vq0pfnxg60dA

                      Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine.

                      The timestamp is 10:15 am, 2/28/25.

                    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      Your source doesn't give evidence of your claim.

                      Before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal that the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).

                    5. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      "The timestamp is 10:15 am, 2/28/25."

                      Always relevant.

                    6. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal that the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).

                      He states this without evidence. It's an opinion piece. It does nothing to show that Z. was influenced by this meeting.

                      It's fine though. I asked for your source and you provided. It's not proof, but it's not nothing.

                    7. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Always relevant.

                      You're better than this, ML.

                    8. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      It does nothing to show that Z. was influenced by this meeting.

                      Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine.

                    9. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      How is this different than if Zelensky decided a week or a day ago he wouldn't accept the offer, then told Murphy of his decision?

                      I find it hard to believe that Z. would change his mind based on the meeting to discuss the upcoming meeting.

                    10. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      "You're better than this, ML"

                      Maybe, but in this case it's what you were doing. The media made a pretty big deal about Zelensky visiting the Democrats before Trump.

                    11. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      You're better than this, ML.

                      No. No he is not. He's one of the worst humans I've ever met in my entire life.

                    12. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Maybe, but in this case it's what you were doing. The media made a pretty big deal about Zelensky visiting the Democrats before Trump.

                      Chronology ≠ causality. I know about the meeting. It makes the claim possible, but not definite or even probable.

                      I asked for his source. When He posted it, I stopped asking, but argued based on the facts of the article.

                    13. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      Remember Sarckles when you were insisting that you never talked ill of anyone? You're the Clive Wearing of shitposters.

                    14. JFree   4 months ago

                      That meeting was a large bipartisan group of critters who include Lindsey Graham, who sent his own tweet telling Zelensky don't talk about 'security guarantees'. It should be fucking obvious there was no conspiracy of anti-Trump Democrats trying to orchestrate anything in a large group of bipartisan critters with cameras present for a meet-and-greet.

                      I've said elsewhere - Zelensky was very unprepared for this meeting and received bad advice. But there is no question that Vance was the one who orchestrated the mugging - even if he may not have intended the full scope of it in the media spotlight.

                    15. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      That meeting was a large bipartisan group of critters who include Lindsey Graham

                      Dammit! This knowledge would have saved me a lot of effort this morning. Better late than never though. Thanks.

                    16. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      That meeting was a large bipartisan group of critters who include Lindsey Graham, who sent his own tweet telling Zelensky don't talk about 'security guarantees'.

                      LOL, even Lindsey admitted that Zelensky shat the bed. Tell us another one.

                    17. JFree   4 months ago

                      The bipartisan group that met with Zelensky before the White House meeting was either the Senate Ukraine Caucus or the Congressional Ukraine Caucus. Meeting with half a dozen or so Ukrainians who had traveled with Zelensky to DC. There is absolutely nothing untoward about this meeting. What is not a surprise is that our resident Trumpbots believe that only the act of kissing the ring of the dictator-in-chief is acceptable behavior for a foreigner.

                    18. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      More JFree spastic behavior. Don't whine about Palestine and then shit your pants over Ukraine.

                  2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                    The sea lion really is showing his true colors here.

                    All he has to do is look at the reports, the tweets from Susan Rice, or other democrats who met with Big Z before the WH.

                    But the sea lion only knows dem narratives.

                    There is a 0% chance he watched anything but what CNN or MSNBC edited.
                    Edit: see you already showed him lol.

                    1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      I'm sure, to someone that makes up claims and believe the weakest of rumors that support your preconceived beliefs, someone that asks you for evidence seems like a sea lion.

                      Remember when I used your source to debunk your claim? That's not how sea lions work.

                      And it's OK to respond directly to me. This passive aggressive technique of just tossing out insults at me indirectly to people responding to my comments looks pretty weak on you.

                    2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

                      "I'm sure, to someone that makes up claims and believe the weakest of rumors that support your preconceived beliefs, someone that asks you for evidence seems like a sea lion..."

                      You misspelled "asshole", asshole.

                    3. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                      Qb is literally trying to deny evidence directly given to him above while making this claim lol.

                      What a fucking sea lioning piece of shit.

                      How retarded do you look right now qb?

                    4. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Cartoon: “There’s no need to raise your voice. I’m right here.”

                      QB, arguing he’s not a sea lion: “And it's OK to respond directly to me. This passive aggressive technique of just tossing out insults at me indirectly to people responding to my comments looks pretty weak on you”

                    5. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      How retarded do you look right now qb?

                      I'm not too worried about it. Even if I turn out to be wrong about Z. only rejecting the offer because of Dem's advice, it's no big deal. I kinda got caught up in this tangent argument of my real point.

                      My real argument was that Z. did not intentionally cause a spectacle in a Dem preplanned attack.

                    6. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Did anyone notice I stopped asking for a source once it was provided?

                    7. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                      Oh no. Qb demands attention while claiming to not be an attention whore sea lion. Lol.

                    8. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      This passive aggressive technique of just tossing out insults at me indirectly to people responding to my comments looks pretty weak on you.

                      He gets pissy when I point out how he behaves like a catty teenage girl, and then he behaves like a catty teenage girl.

                    9. Alberto Balsalm   4 months ago

                      Did anyone notice I stopped asking for a source once it was provided?

                      I noticed that the source did not prove the accusation that the dems advised Zelenskyy to reject the deal and that he had already decided he was not going to accept it. You're arguing with intellectually dishonest assholes. Good luck.

                    10. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      I noticed that the source did not prove the accusation that the dems advised Zelenskyy to reject the deal and that he had already decided he was not going to accept it.

                      LOL, you mean the one directly quoting Chris Murphy's social media post that confirmed exactly that?

                      Talk about intellectually dishonest. Fuck off, shitlib.

                    11. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      You're arguing with intellectually dishonest assholes.

                      poTAYto - poTAHto

                      Trump defender - intellectually dishonest asshole

                      Just different ways to say the same thing.

                    12. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      LOL, you mean the one directly quoting Chris Murphy's social media post that confirmed exactly that?

                      Doesn't make it true. Politicians routinely lie take credit for things that they did not do.

                      Or is this the one time a Democrat was honest? Come on. You're smarter than that.

                    13. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      Doesn't make it true. Politicians routinely lie take credit for things that they did not do.

                      "This direct statement refuted my claim, so now I'm trying to deflect."

                      Fuck Zelensky, fuck NATO, fuck the EU, and fuck his neoliberal US sponsors.

                2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                  Question for QB: have you listened to the Nuland phone call from 2014?

                  1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                    Hi R Mac,
                    No. Tell me more, please.

                    1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Fuck off you ignorant fuck. This is the most basic of background information on the entire topic and you aren’t even aware of it?

                      It’s been mentioned and posted here numerous times.

                      Have you seen Nuland’s name mentioned here repeatedly and never had any curiosity as to who she is and why an unelected bureaucrat is so entwined with this war?

                      Is your entire purpose at this point to prove Jesse is right about you?

                    2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      I'm familiar with the call, but I never listened to it. I asked for more information thinking that there was more in that call relevant to this discussion because US entanglement in the Ukraine-Russia conflict is well known and not relevant.

                      So, I'm sorry that my knowledge is not perfect enough for Mr. "Honk Honk's" high standard of internet debate.

                    3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      So you were familiar with the call and decided to act dumb anyway?

                      If you’re not able to connect some painfully obvious dots I can’t help you.

                      As far as the honking goes, when people act like clowns I have no interest in debating their clownish statements, so I appropriately call them clowns and keep it moving.

                    4. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Meh, it's all moot now that we know it was a bipartisan meeting.

                    5. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Only if you’re living in 2015. The fact that some neocon gope lizards were involved doesn’t change my opinion whatsoever.

              2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                Hillary reset button was apparently resetting democrats and neocons to the cold war.

              3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                Victoria Nuland’s son is part of a think tank working against President Trump’s efforts to end the Ukraine War.

                Prior to Zelensky's DC visit, the group was drafting alternative "peace plans" to escalate the war and lobbying against the proposed mineral deal.

                https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1896546760350466181

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                  Are they referring to the Institute for the Study of War? It's been common knowledge that it's a Kaganite forever war institution for a while.

                  1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                    The Center for European Policy Analysis, where David Kagan serves as a Program Officer with the Democratic Resilience program, is also a recipient of several USAID grants.

                    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1896546762409615512

                    1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      Damn, that family really is a vampire squid on the American taxpayer, aren't they?

                  2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                    Kagan contributed to CEPA's “7-point Plan for Sustainable Peace in Ukraine" which demands the US “provide immediate material support” to Ukraine, engage in “maximum pressure strategy” against Russia, and paves the way for US involvement in the conflict.

                    They want the war to continue.

                    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1896546765127463046

                  3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                    The report also demands the US provide "in country training support" to Ukraine and allow the use of long range missiles.

                    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1896546767816286488

                  4. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                    Just two days before the Trump-Zelensky meeting, CEPA was actively lobbying against the prospective mineral deal.

                    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1896546770630627358

                  5. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                    Here’s the thread reader app:

                    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1896546760350466181.html

                    1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      I’m sure Dee, Jewfree and sarc will read this in their search for understanding.

                      Or remain intentionally ignorant, who knows!?!?

                    2. Truthfulness   4 months ago

                      @Don't get eliminated

                      Let's add Quicktown Brix and Alberto Balsalm to that list.

                    3. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      I think he said "Dee" to simultaneously include and disrespect me.

                    4. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Did you read it?

                    5. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Yeah. I think you misunderstand my stance here. I know Obama/Biden/Dems/Neocons were involved with the coup, getting Zelensky in power, agitating Russia to invade (not to detract from the liability Putin has for invading) and supporting the war.

                      I support Trump’s effort to end the war, or at least stop funding it. What I oppose is
                      1 claiming that Dems set up this diplomacy disaster without appropriate evidence to support the claim. It just makes us look crazy.

                      2 the minerals deal. We should not have Americans in Ukraine, nor should we try to shake down a nation struggling for survival fom an invasion we helped provoke.

                      3 acting like Trump is doing some great diplomacy instead of acknowledging he fucked this up. A few days ago he was saying the war would be over by now. Instead it looks like we're on Russia's side in a war with no end in sight.

                    6. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Then it seems like you’re going out of your way to not connect prior events to current events.

                      But sure, if everyone involved in creating these issues in the first place, who then impeached Trump in his first term to cover up their involvement and derail his presidency, just decided THIS TIME they’re going to meet with Zalinsky but not encourage him to sabotage Trump’s efforts for peace and instead go with the narrative of the people that have been lying about the issue for a decade you go right ahead.

                    7. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Then it seems like you’re going out of your way to not connect prior events to current events.

                      Maybe I am. You know when someone gets in an online argument and people start calling you names and stuff a feller can really dig his feet in and get stubborn. So yeah, I'll admit to that.

                      I have no doubt what those senators wanted is exactly what you say. What I'm skeptical of is that it was a pre-planned set up by this group to get Trump and Vance to look bad or that Zelensky is so gullible and naive that he'll just drop a good deal based on pressure applied in this meeting. I think Trump's meeting with Zelensky would have gone exactly the same without that pre-meeting.

            4. Weigel's Cock Ring   4 months ago

              Zelensky better get it through his stupid fucking head real fast that the United States is NEVER going to send our troops over to be killed in a hot war against Russia right on their doorstep, nor are we going to use them as pawns in another permanently created "tripwire". Not even pathetic Sleepy Joe Biden was willing to escalate things to this degree or make those kinds of commitments, what the fuck makes him think that Trump would ever agree to do?

              Zelensky has better pray like hell that Europe gets serious about building that Army of Europe that he recently called for, it's literally the only good idea he's come up with since the war started.

              1. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

                The Euros couldn't handle Serbia/Kosovo and dragged the US in claiming it was a NATO issue. Good luck with France, Germany and the UK trying to build an army. The only ones willing to join up will be their newly imported Muslim "refugees" and once they are armed they'll turn around and start shooting the natives.

            5. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

              I really want to know whose idea it was, since I'm getting conflicting stories. The last thing I heard was is that Chris Murphy met with Zelensky before the Oval Office meeting and convinced him it was in his best interest to ask for the cameras to remain and then to goad the president.

              If so, it's a blunder, as Zelensky needed more from the meeting than Trump did.

              1. JFree   4 months ago

                Zelensky was never going to get anything from a meeting with Trump. He should have known that before he accepted the meeting with Trump.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                  Zelensky was never going to get anything from a meeting with Trump. He should have known that before he accepted the meeting with Trump.

                  He certainly blew it by meeting with the opposition party and taking their stupid advice.

                  And Zelensky is the one who wanted to do all this shit in person. This all could have been done behind the scenes without a lot of fanfare, but he wants to continue acting as if he's a Real World Leader and not some moby for the Kaganites.

                  1. JFree   4 months ago

                    There is zero reason this mineral deal benefits Ukraine - in private or in public. ZERO. It benefits Trump. Trump was never offering anything in return and he sure as fuck was never going to say 'Oh well Z offers a yooge return on Biden's 'investment' of sending military stuff to Ukraine' so maybe I'll get involved'.

                    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      The benefit is the US having an economic interest in the integrity of Ukrainian territory, dumbass.

                    2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      If you aggressively ignore people’s arguments, then you can claim there’s no argument!

                2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                  He already was given the chance to get something from Trump the 2 prior times he didn't sign the agreement dumdum.

                3. Truthfulness   4 months ago

                  He sure as hell wasn't going to have the status quo, set forth by the Biden administration, continue if he didn't visit Trump, that's for sure.

                  1. JFree   4 months ago

                    Inertia is always the default. For Trump to do something 'new', he has to order something new done. Whatever has been delivered has been delivered. Whatever may still be yet-to-be-delivered is almost certainly not ever going to be delivered. And the mineral deal had nothing to do with that (if it even exists).

                    If offering the 'mineral deal' is simply the price for Z to get a meeting with Trump, that is a recipe for Trump seeing weakness and being a bully.

            6. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              Well said.

              1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                Hardly. The spastic is trying to deflect because his side's big-brained effort to make Zelensky look like Big Man blew up in their face.

                1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                  I think he's right on. Trump's so-called security guarantee is no guarantee of anything, while Putin is guaranteed to not hold up his end of the deal. So Zolensky's concerns were legitimate.

                  He's also right that Trump and Vance's behavior was not befitting of the office. It was embarrassing. Not only that but it was less than honest.

                  Personally I think there's something else going on. Based upon how the attacks on Zolensky were obviously rehearsed, I think that they sabotaged the deal on purpose for reasons we don't know about.

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                    Did you even watch anything more than the 30 second clip of the meeting on MSDNC, dumbass? Zelensky tried to start something about 25 minutes in, and it was Trump who quelled it. Zelensky then tried later on, and that’s what you see.

                    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      Did you even watch anything more than the 30 second clip of the meeting on MSDNC

                      Lol, fuck no. And I doubt he even watched that.

                    2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      He did not.

                  2. Commenter_XY   4 months ago

                    Zelenskyy attempted to 'diss' VP Vance (and POTUS Trump) in the Oval Office. Bad move. Zelenskyy was properly put in his place.

                    Zelenskyy needs America a lot more than America needs UKR.

                    Zelenskyy blew it, and many, many more young men will die b/c of that, which make Zelenskyy a poor excuse for a leader.

                    1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      What you're saying is that Zelenskyy didn't kiss ass hard enough, and that offended Trump and Vance. Their hurt feelings justifies scuttling the entire deal and continuing the war.

                      That's just plain embarrassing. I never had any respect for Trump, and any respect I had for Vance just went down the shitter.

                    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      What you're saying is that Zelenskyy didn't kiss ass hard enough

                      He's a puppet. He always has been. Kissing ass is a requirement of puppets, not making high-handed demands with fake assertions that Ukraine is the only thing keeping the so-called Russian steamroller from sweeping through Europe.

                    3. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      "What you're saying is that Zelenskyy didn't kiss ass hard enough"

                      No. If you weren't an absolute fucking retard and actually watched the conversation leading up to the blow up, you would've seen Zelenskyyy insulting and attempting to bully Trump and Vance many times.

                      But you're too much lazy garbage to even do that.

                    4. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      The ghost of Neville Chamberlain thinks appeasing Putin is a bad idea. Whatever.

                    5. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      How does the ghost of Chamberlain disagree, Sarkles? What the fuck does "appeasing Putin" even mean?
                      You don't want a peace deal? Fight to the last dead Ukrainian?

                    6. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      The ghost of Neville Chamberlain thinks appeasing Putin is a bad idea. Whatever.

                      Yeah, I know, it's forever 1938 for the last 80 fucking years. It really was a mistake turning World War II into the US's creation myth rather than the Revolution.

                    7. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Losing the argument because he’s ignorant of the topic, poor sarc retreats to WW2 bumper sticker.

                  3. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                    Trump's so-called security guarantee is no guarantee of anything, while Putin is guaranteed to not hold up his end of the deal. So Zolensky's concerns were legitimate.

                    None of his concerns are legitimate. He's an entitled little dwarf that needs to know his place.

                    He's also right that Trump and Vance's behavior was not befitting of the office. It was embarrassing. Not only that but it was less than honest.

                    Hardly. The guy openly campaigned for Trump's opponent, and then showed up in his Brave Little Soldier actor getup. He's not in a position to be demanding anything.

                    Based upon how the attacks on Zolensky were obviously rehearsed, I think that they sabotaged the deal on purpose for reasons we don't know about.

                    Maybe Chris Murphy openly bragging that he and the Dems advised Zelensky not to take the deal had something to do with it.

                    1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      I thought you were more principled than that.

                      So it all comes down to Democrats. He listened to Democrats so he had to be curb stomped. The war must continue to spite Democrats. Fuck, man. That's horrible.

                    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      I thought you were more principled than that.

                      What is this glittering generality? That's the reality of situation. If you, Zelensky, the Dems, and their Squealer press allies can't face that, it's hardly my problem.

                    3. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      "I thought you were more principled than that."

                      Interesting how one of the least-principled trolls here thinks he can talk about principles. Sarc's only principle is to do whatever he thinks will make Jesse maddest.

                    4. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                      It's funny seeing sarc not claim to be a neocon yet he continues to demand the US secure Ukraine.

                      He doesn't even make people mad ML. Everyone laughs at him lol.

                      Watch how angry he gets when I don't respond to him. Been fun going days without direct responses and he gets Ken mute list unhinged.

                      Sarcs only principles are MSNBC narratives and Trump hatred.

                    5. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                      Watch how angry he gets when I don't respond to him.

                      I like it, actually. A lot better than when you used to childishly leave multiple turds on every single comment of mine in a childish effort to make threads difficult to follow. As long as you're going to behave like a child, this childish behavior is much preferred.

                    6. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                      "I like it, actually."

                      No you don't, you're the world's biggest attention whore. It absolutely killed you when Ken and Chumby muted you. That's why you make such a big show about muting others. You can't imagine a worse punishment than being ignored.

                    7. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                      Which is why Sarc mutes those he has a strong dislike for, but not strong enough so he can still get attention. That’s why people like I and Dlam get muted, and you and Jesse don’t.

              2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                You’re pathetic, feeling the need to white knight just because someone says something contrary to one of your imagined “mean girls”.

            7. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

              You stupid lying fvck, he could have signed it without coming to DC, which was his idea

            8. JFree   4 months ago

              This event is going to become a case study in - Be Prepared.
              Zelensky could easily have predicted that Trump doesn't like him and likes Putin, has no interest in helping Ukraine and wants to switch sides, hates underdogs and prefers the bully side, doesn't want to be 'persuaded' by anything because he doesn't listen.

              Hard to even know why he agreed to meet Trump at this time. The 'mineral deal' offered nothing to Ukraine and was just kissing the ring of a thug. The only reason Trump wanted that deal was to show Putin that Trump could get Ukraine to agree to surrender to Putin's terms. But Zelensky did what he did.

              Best advice for any other leader in future. Think twice before meeting with Trump if there is any chance that sucking up will achieve nothing. And get a fucking translator to slow things down and prevent being trolled.

              1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

                "...Zelensky could easily have predicted that Trump doesn't like him and likes Putin,..."

                Why do steaming piles of lefty shit lie so transparently?

              2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                Best advice for any other leader in future. Think twice before meeting with Trump if there is any chance that sucking up will achieve nothing.

                Best advice for any other leader in the future. Think twice before following Democrat advice on how to negotiate an agreement with Trump, or following their advice on anything in general. They aren't the ones running the show.

                1. JFree   4 months ago

                  I don't believe D's were the ones who orchestrated anything with Zelensky. Trump and Vance and WH staff orchestrated the entire event. Cite ACTUAL evidence if you have it. Right wing American media is not evidence. It is merely narrative.

                  It doesn't surprise me that R's who are a bit shocked at what unfurled will try to make this all about DeRp. It has nothing to do with DeRp.

                  Vance (in that first speech) sucked up to Trump about being the best diplomat ever. It really had nothing to do with Ukraine.
                  Zelensky completely misread the speech and responded by talking about Putin and why Ukraine needs protection from him. As I said - completely unprepared and in need of a translator to slow any response down.
                  Vance then did his absolutely pre-prepared ambush. Maybe that wasn't intended to take place in front of the camera but for Vance this is a continuation of him being the pro-Putin anti-Europe attack dog following DeRp script. Foreign policy based on appealing to a domestic US audience.

                  1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                    Chris Murphy just above rerard.

                    1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      Democrats saying they did something isn’t evidence that democrats did something to a Democrat apologist.

                      Leftists are so inherently dishonest it’s impossible to have honest debate with them.

                  2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                    So you're saying Chris Murphy lied?

                    1. JFree   4 months ago

                      No one here is talking about what Chris Murphy said. They are talking about what the NYPost wrote.

                      What Chris Murphy said (on Twitter - 40 mins before Zelensky arrived at the White House):
                      Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine is not something that indicates some blowup about something unknown and unreasonable. That is in fact EXACTLY what anyone would expect from a leader of Ukraine and what has been repeated for years BY Zelensky.

                      Further - there is no context about the logistics of that meeting. Which is what actually confuses you and thus lean towards conspiracy as an explanation. I can assure you - no one in history has gone straight from the airport after a long flight to a meeting at the White House. It would be a bit odd if the meeting was in Murphy's office. It would be completely normal and expected if the meeting was at the Ukrainian Embassy where one would expect Ukrainians and friends of Ukraine to be there at a prep meeting before heading over the White House. If Murphy is that then that is what he is.

                      But of course your ilk does not remotely want to understand what actually happens in the world. To you it is all narrative and conspiracy to DeRpty DeRpty DeRp. In EXACTLY the same way that the media around the world - which was NOT invited to the WH on the demand of the WH - selected its own video tidbits in order to support its textual/headline narrative about the event. It is how the media manipulates your tiny little lizard brain.

                    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                      No one here is talking about what Chris Murphy said.

                      "Just ignore the multiple times his tweet was cited in this thread."

                      The rest of your post is just a bunch of retarded handwaving.

                      Fuck Zelensky, fuck NATO, fuck the EU, and fuck his neoliberal US sponsors.

              3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                This post was a case study in TDS.

            9. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

              "...Who is right here?..."

              Not you, slimy pile of dishonest lefty shit. Nor Zelenskyy, who is a supplicant and should act like one.

            10. Moonrocks   4 months ago

              Zelensky wants security guarantees as part of the deal; Trump thinks the rare earth mineral deal itself is a security guarantee. Zelensky for obvious reasons doesn't believe Putin will honor any agreements that aren't backed with sufficient deterrence measures.

              Those are the kind of details you work out before the high-profile signing ceremony in front of all the cameras. Saying that he'll sign the deal only to start arguing about it when the cameras were rolling was a massive blunder on Zelensky's part. He won a lot of praise and adulation from Trump haters at the cost of relations with his biggest benefactor.

              1. JFree   4 months ago

                Trump has said for months that he is not a Ukraine benefactor. This blow up certainly makes for a precipitating excuse for him to actively withdraw all aid. I don't really think that was 'part of the plan' by Trump/Vance. I think they merely wanted to humiliate Zelensky. But no one on this planet thinks that Trump is a Ukraine benefactor going forward.

                The point of a mineral deal is so that Trump can exact a price from Putin for breaking that mineral deal when Putin thinks its time to break any ceasefire.

                1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

                  "...I think they merely wanted to humiliate Zelensky..."

                  That's because you're a TDS-addled slimy pile of shit.

            11. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

              Everything you post is ignorance.

            12. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

              "...Because Trump and Vance are rude assholes..."

              You're a lying pile of steaming lefty shit. Fuck off and die.

            13. DrZ   4 months ago

              "Trump and Vance came off rude and belittling"

              Watch a video of the meeting. Trump and Vance held back with politeness for a long time. It was Z that started poking the bear.

        2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

          Are you joking, Poe?

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

            No, you fucking vermin. Trying to deflect from your side tripping on the carpet?

            1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

              Can you provide some evidence for this claim that the democrats wanted to meet on camera? How dumb would Trump have to be to fall for that?

              I don't have a side. I want the truth. I am seeing a lot of excuse making and what appears to be retcons but have yet to see any supporting evidence.

              1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                LOL, you vermin really enjoy playing dumb when your hand's caught in the cookie jar.

                A common criticism of Volodymyr Zelensky’s disastrous Friday performance in the Oval Office is that he failed to read the room.
                Actually, the Ukrainian president did read a room — but it was the wrong room.
                Before meeting President Trump, Zelensky met with anti-Trump Democrats who advised him to reject the terms of the mineral deal that the president was offering, according to Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.).
                “Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky here in Washington. He confirmed that the Ukrainian people will not support a fake peace agreement where Putin gets everything he wants and there are no security arrangements for Ukraine,” Murphy’s office posted on X at 11:15 a.m. Friday.
                He attached a picture of Zelensky at a conference table, with Murphy seated on the opposite side.

                I don't have a side. I want the truth.

                Bullshit.

                1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                  Shocking. Mike the sea lion has ignored this post twice now.

                2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                  This is a different claim. This claim is that it was televised because of the Dems.

                  Sevo: Whose idea was it to negotiate in front of the cameras?

                  JesseAz: The democrats big Z met with before the event.

                  1. Truthfulness   4 months ago

                    Deflection? You gotta do better.

                    Nothing changes the fact that Zelensky met with Dems and was told to reject Trump's mineral deal.

                    1. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

                      Ahead of his meeting with Trump, Zelenskyy also met with a group of bipartisan Senate lawmakers, including Sens. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., Chris Coons, D-Del., and Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn. Zelenskyy reportedly told the group that he would not "support a fake peace agreement" during that meeting. ..."Just finished a meeting with President Zelensky (sic) ...no security arrangements for Ukraine," Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., posted to X on Friday morning.

                      In a bipartisan meeting?

      2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        The people who manipulate the companies that operate the cameras.

        1. Idaho-Bob   4 months ago

          Yep, this. ^

      3. Thought about __ all my life   4 months ago

        This is to prevent another Sen Collins travesty " MR Kavanaugh tricked a poor backwoods simple Senator, Waaaaah"

  3. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    From the perspective of Europe, it's the beginning of the end of the transatlantic alliance.

    Lol. Yeah, let them pay for their socialism and their own defense. They'll swallow whatever they have to in order to keep whatever financial portion of that alliance intact.

    1. Moonrocks   4 months ago

      I love how the end of the transatlantic alliance is us dealing with Russia after consistently asking Europe to put in even a token display of doing their part to prepare for war with Russia and getting told "no, that's not our problem, you handle Russia yourself".

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        But like all true nanny socialists, they want to tell us how to spend our money. Assuming they let us keep our money.

      2. damikesc   4 months ago

        WE also should not notice that Europe has given Russia more money than they gave Ukraine.

  4. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Shocking. Mexican Drug Cartels have reduced their attacks and activities in Mexico after terrorist designation by Trump. Mexico has begun arresting known leaders and transporting then to the US for trial.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/02/world/americas/mexico-cartel-fentanyl-trump-tariffs.html

    The shocking part is the NYT covering it.

    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      That can't be right. I'm not going to believe anything until Sarc and Jeffy weigh in.

    2. Super Scary   4 months ago

      I'll cover the dem's talking point for this: "Why is Trump importing criminals into the US?!?!"

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        Also, "Why is Trump persecuting minority business owners?"

  5. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Boston mayor sends condolences to family of man attacking people with a knife being shot by police.

    Bostonians Against Mayor Wu
    @AntiWuCoalition
    Tonight, a knife-wielding attacker tried to kill multiple people in Boston

    Police stopped the threat and shot them

    @MayorWu
    went on television offering condolences—to the criminal

    Unbelievable. This city cares more about protecting criminals than residents

    Watch below
    Video

    https://x.com/AntiWuCoalition/status/1896030227404636510

    1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

      What the fuck is wrong with progressives!?! We see the same shit from people like Jeffy and Tony here.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        At this point, it has to be collective brain damage.

    2. Idaho-Bob   4 months ago

      Saw this over the weekend. It wasn't just the mayor offering condolences to the criminal.

    3. Medulla Oblongata   4 months ago

      Reading this sort of thing always reminds me of this clip:

      https://www.bet.com/article/f5n4lg/homeowner-kills-teen-burglar

      A homeowner whose property had previously been burglarized wasn’t going to let another home invader get away with it again.

      The 54-year-old woman in Northwest Miami-Dade shot and killed her would-be burglar as she saw him trying to exit the rear of her home. Now, 17-year-old Trevon Johnson’s family is fighting back, saying she had no right to end his life because how else could he “get his money to have clothes to go to school.”

      Due to her previous home invasion, the woman bought a licensed gun and put a security system with cameras around the property. The security system is what alerted her to the break-in and, with police already on the way; she rushed home to find the teen leaving through a window.

      After a confrontation, one shot was fired, police said. Johnson, who was a student at D.A. Dorsey Technical College, was pronounced dead shortly after at the hospital.

      “I don’t care if she has her gun license,” Johnson’s cousin, Nautika Harris, told local news. “That is way beyond the law.”

      The family argues that the deceased teen, who was described as a funny, goal-oriented teen big on education, didn’t take anything out of the home and couldn’t understand why she shot him even after authorities were called.

      “You have to look at it from every child’s point of view that was raised in the hood,” Harris continued. “How he gonna get his money to have clothes to go to school?”

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        But we have to respect cultural diversity. Just because one culture believes in private property rights does not mean that others have to. Also Racism!

      2. Truthfulness   4 months ago

        Zayda Rivera is an activist, not a journalist.

    4. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

      Zelensky - guy running around with knife

      JDV - cop who shot him

      At least they are consistent

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        You forgot US liberals apologizing to Zelensky's family.

      2. rbike   4 months ago

        JDV is wrong. Of course.

    5. Thought about __ all my life   4 months ago

      “Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent”

  6. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Dammit. Trump was right again.

    Disclose.tv
    @disclosetv
    NEW - German industry begins calling for a return to Russian natural gas as the economy is on a path of decline — Bloomberg

    1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

      The Germans are implementing the Morgantheau Plan all on their own.

    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

      Gosh, maybe they shouldn't have allowed the US to blow up their easy source of energy delivery.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        No, no, no. Russians, Russians, Russians!

      2. Moonrocks   4 months ago

        Maybe they shouldn't have destroyed their domestic energy production and grown dependent on Russia to begin with.

        1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

          ^+1

        2. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

          This. And unfortunately, you can't just flick a switch to get your nuclear plants back online.

          1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

            Can you restart them by sticking a couple of watermelons in the reactor?

        3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

          Why do you hate the planet?

        4. Jefferson Paul   4 months ago

          And not laughed at Trump when he suggested exactly that during his first term.

    3. Eeyore   4 months ago

      A monkey with encephalitis could have predicted that Germany's energy policies would fail.

      1. Vernon Depner   4 months ago

        What about an organ grinder monkey boy?

        1. Eeyore   4 months ago

          Probably even one of those smoking monkey toys from 50 year ago.

      2. Thought about __ all my life   4 months ago

        Run by a woman with no children. Get to the HEART of it.
        Same with Macron and May, no children, no care for the future, no heart, no fellow-feelling. Same with gay IRish PM , what's it to him if sexual perverts prey on children. absolutely nothing.

  7. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    How well were immigrants for Joe's parole program vetted? One kills 3 people in under a year after coming here.

    https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-assists-fayetteville-police-department-arrest-alien-charged-3-murders

    1. Michael Ejercito   4 months ago

      Michael Moore pointed out that he might one day cure cancer.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

        Cancer dies if you die. Check mate for Mr Moore.

      2. Idaho-Bob   4 months ago

        MM should be concerned with someone solving the morbidly obesity problem.

        1. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

          1. He's still a thing?
          2. If so surprised he wasn't the first on Ozempic

      3. Longtobefree   4 months ago

        Sorry, Mikey, the guy to cure cancer was aborted 10 years ago.

        1. Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)   4 months ago

          Zing!

  8. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

    Sarc and Boehm's favorite experts, economists, give bad economic advice.

    1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

      Yes-men are saying "Yes, man"?

      I'm shocked.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

        Economist are only experts when they say stuff you agree with. Who is the yes man again?

        1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

          Trump said the biggest mistake of his first term was not surrounding himself with loyalists (yes-men). He has not repeated that mistake. So of course everyone in his administration is going to agree with everything he says. If they don't then they're fired.

          That said, I skimmed through the article. The "economist" is saying that sending everyone a $5000 check is a great idea, and that inflation is on the way down to 2%. As in inflationary spending will lower inflation.

          This guy is as much of an economist as Paul Krugman.

          1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

            Again, the only real economist are the ones who support your opinions. I got it.

            1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              Inflating the money supply by sending everyone checks is how we got that last round of inflation, dumbass. That's fact, not opinion.

              This guy is saying that sending everyone $5000 will not be inflationary, and that's a fucking lie. That's fact, not opinion.

              If you idiots judged things by what instead of who then you'd see that. But you don't and you won't.

              1. Heedless   4 months ago

                When they implement this and inflation goes back up to 9%, it will be hoarders and wreckers (or fake news and the deep state).

                It's always hoarders and wreckers eventually.

                1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   4 months ago

                  They might even call it “transitory”. That makes it ok.

        2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

          Sarc and sarc lite still can't wrap their heads around that there are varying schools of economic thought making their appeal to authority hilarious. They can never actually articulate their arguments.

          1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

            Let me help them by example. This economic expert is a idiot because even with the DOGE savings we are still running a deficit. So we would have to print or borrow those $5000 checks.

            1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              Wow, you said something that was economically literate. Too bad you were being sarcastic.

              1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

                We can add sarcastic to the Sarctonary: A Book of Drunken Malapropisms.

                1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                  Haha, I like it. Have you found a publisher yet?

                  1. VinniUSMC   4 months ago

                    Who would want to publish a book that big? It'd weigh at least as much as the moon.

                    1. tracerv   4 months ago

                      Cosmo Kramer?

            2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

              Ahh. Nirvana fallacy. And hatred of government not taking from taxpayers. Got it. That's a type of argument i guess.

              It is still always the spending.

              Lock gov spending growth to zero and the deficit goes away in 8 years.

              But if we can't have it all in one year, tax citizens more. Got it.

              1. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

                Lock gov spending growth to zero

                Maybe 10 years ago. Now we need spending cuts and at the very least a re-work on SS and Medi. Obama, Trump and Biden spending sprees have bankrupted the nation and pissed away the time to reduce the need for more drastic cuts. The interest on the debt is just far to great to wait 8 years to finally balance the budget deficit.

                That isn't to say I'm against tax cuts, our budget problems aren't on the revenue side.

                1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                  Not really as long as there is zero growth. See the growth of tax revenue. This includes offsetting increases to SS and Interest on the debt.

                  I'd like to cut more, don't get me wrong. I just don't think the fucks in Congress will. So taking what I can get.

      2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

        Strong words, Sarckles. So a top government economist's words only count when a Democrat is president?
        Good to know.

        1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

          That's not what I said you lying sack of Canadian shit. The job of a government economist is to justify what politicians want to do, not to do economics. Doesn't matter which party is in power. You're just projecting the fact that you judge everything by who, not what.

          1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

            He didn't lie. You think the economist's opinions you cite are (D)ifferent.

            1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              He did lie, because I never once said government economists' words count. He's just doing what you guys always do, which is to lie and say "You like it when Democrats did it!" and then argue against the strawman.

              1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

                You cite 'economists' all the time in an appeal to authority. Then reject any criticism of them with the stawman, economists are leftists. Get help, your memory is crap.

                1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

                  Appeal to authority? An appeal economics is an appeal to rational thought. You guys are citing government economists. That is an actual appeal to authority.

                  As usual you're accusing me of what you are doing, while you are doing it.

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                    Yes, you appeal to authority all the time when you’re not busy producing strawmen and false equivalencies.

                    1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

                      He still doesn't get this whole thread was to point out his laughable appeal to the experts by pointing out an expert saying stupid shit. Which he promptly defended by pointing out his experts, which are infallible, are (D)ifferent.

                    2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                      He’s really this dumb.

              2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                You do like to try to weasel out of what you said, Sarc. I’d say you give weasels a bad name.

          2. Medulla Oblongata   4 months ago

            If we ignore all the insults, projection, and butt-hurt, I can agree that there's a grain of truth in Sarcs inflationary claims. Borrowing money (aka printing money to buy new T-bills) to hand out $5000 checks will of course be inflationary and a bad idea all around.

            1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              If you were an economic advisor to Trump, what you just said would have gotten you fired.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                Man, your TDS has got to be stage IV or something.

                1. TrickyVic (old school)   4 months ago

                  Even when someone throws him a bone he's not sure how to act.

                2. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

                  His cirrhosis is.

          3. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

            That's not what I said you lying sack of Canadian shit

            It's hardly lying, you inebriated wife-beater.
            Its the only conclusion that can be gleaned from your accusation, as you've used Biden administration economists to argue against Trump.

            You were either a lying hypocrite then or a lying hypocrite now.

            1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

              you've used Biden administration economists to argue against Trump.

              Nope. You're lying, as always.

              1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

                You definitely have, and I don't think it's your whiskey-brain making you forget this time. You're telling lies.

              2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                In addition to TDS and JDS, Sarc also has a severe case of MLDS.

        2. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

          Only when they support his opinion. Otherwise, he dismisses any criticism of his experts with the strawman 'economists are leftist, reeeee.'

      3. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        You get triggered and taunted easily. I’ll bet you were a joy on the playground as a target for the other kids.

  9. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Improper payments are widespread across nearly every government program, but some are more outrageous than others. The worst offender in 2024 was the Farm Service Emergency Conservation Program, which spent 45 cents out of every $1 on improper payments.

    In the Earned Income Tax Credit program, or EITC, 27 cents out of every $1 was an improper payment in 2024. The EITC’s total of $15.9 billion in improper payments equals the entire annual incomes of 200,000 typical households.

    And the government’s health insurance programs — Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) — combined sent out $88 billion in improper payments in 2024. That’s enough to pay for the health insurance premiums of 9.8 million individuals or 3.4 million families.

    https://thefederalist.com/2025/02/28/time-to-end-big-governements-improper-payments-that-cost-you-14000-every-10-years/

    1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

      Feature, not a bug.

    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

      This goes back to my assertion that a lot of the costs of healthcare in this country could be mitigated simply by going after medical monopolies and auditing these hospitals for what they're charging. Since they're getting federal money for their services, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the feds putting a scope up their ass and finding out if a normal birth and two nights in a private room really should cost $25,000, versus the $1,000 inflation-adjusted cost that it was 60 years ago.

      1. Longtobefree   4 months ago

        Sounds right to me; $1000 for the birth, $24000 for federally mandated procedures and paperwork.

        1. Medulla Oblongata   4 months ago

          Sounds right to me; $1000 for the birth, $8000 for federally mandated procedures and paperwork, and $16000 for the lawyers being paid for suing the shit out of the hospital, doctors, suppliers...and the layers defending those suits.

        2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Hey, all those non-STEM majors have to make a living, too!

        3. Vernon Depner   4 months ago

          How much for assigning the baby's gender?

          1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   4 months ago

            Priceless.

      2. BYODB   4 months ago


        finding out if a normal birth and two nights in a private room really should cost $25,000, versus the $1,000 inflation-adjusted cost that it was 60 years ago.

        Well, as someone who had a child about five months ago I can tell you a home birth cost about $5000. There are good reasons to have a hospital birth for at-risk pregnancies, but $25000 for a hospital birth is neither necessary or warranted for the vast majority of births. In short, it's a con that relies on fear tactics aimed at mothers. Lots of 'could happens' and 'safety' arguments that apply to very few births here in the United States but are sold as very common. They aren't.

        And, of course, they never once mention that hospitals are ground zero for most diseases. Sure, lets have a baby in the same facility that see's MRSA on a daily basis and where disease controls by the medical staff are often subpar or barely understood.

        I worked in hospitals for a decade and in the hospital industry for even longer, this is an open secret. Hilariously, it was still the case during COVID. It's amazing that otherwise intelligent medical staff really believed that paper masks did anything when it was directly covered in their education that they don't.

        Fear is truly the mind killer.

        1. VinniUSMC   4 months ago

          I worked in hospitals for a decade and in the hospital industry for even longer, this is an open secret. Hilariously, it was still the case during COVID. It's amazing that otherwise intelligent medical staff really believed that paper masks did anything when it was directly covered in their education that they don't.

          My grandma caught COVID after the nursing home locked down and refused to allow any visitors. Obey "The Science!"

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

          Even $5000 is still five times what that inflation-adjusted cost was 60 years ago in an actual hospital. Shit, it's not like we were some Third World cesspit 60 years ago.

          1. BYODB   4 months ago

            There are a lot of reasons for that, of course, and they are too numerous to get into here but you can thank a mix of government intervention, professional associations, and insurance company shenanigans for the vast cost inflation. It's not just one political party that led us here, either, but rather a bipartisan group of idiots which sadly includes even Ronald Reagan.

            Compassionate conservatism is neither.

  10. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    ...have led to the bluntest talk since April 1993 about a future without Washington's mutual defense commitments to the easternmost members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

    Could it be that even our friend Welch is recognizing that we're out of damn money? You think a world without a NATO financed almost solely by American taxpayers is bad? How well will the world fare when the United States has the kind of financial collapse that we're spending ourselves toward.

    1. BYODB   4 months ago

      It's also worth mentioning that the entire premise of NATO was, in essense, invalidated by Russia's disasterous invasion of the Ukraine. We're still acting like Russia is a world power and a danger to Europe when Russia just proved they are not.

      Russia's only claim to be a 'world power' is their nuclear arsenal, and notably Putin directly threatening to use that nuclear arsenal did nothing to slow the Wests support of Ukraine...and nothing else happened.

      Thus it's questionable if NATO serves any actual purpose anymore beyond insulating Europe from the costs of their own self-defense and forcing Europe to work together by an outside actor given that the people Europe hates most are also members of the EU. Those countries have been at war for at least the past 600 years, what the fuck makes us think they can operate as one today?

      Arguably, all the Europeans who were capable of working together left for America a few centuries ago.

      1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

        The people promoting this keep trying to invoke the Ghost of Hitler to ramp up support, but the rhetoric and propaganda methodologies all look way too much like Vietnam to my eyes.

        And back then, there actually was majority support for the war, or at least not bugging out altogether which is what the left wanted, all the way up into the early 1970s. Nixon's whole re-election strategy was based on it. Most people now wouldn't mind seeing Ukraine win, but don't want to commit US resources to do it anymore.

        1. BYODB   4 months ago

          I honestly don't care who 'wins' in this scuffle between two kleptocratic nations anymore, if I ever really did. There is no good guy, even if Putin is marginally worse it really does not matter.

          Europe is clearly not at risk, which wasn't something that was certain at the outset of the war but is certainly clear now.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

            A lot of this activity seems to be a clear act of desperation on the part of the Deep State to ultimately get back the control of Russia (not just Ukraine) that they had in the 90s, before their puppet Yeltsin fucked things up so badly that the Russians turned to Putin to straighten it all out.

            For all of Russia's corruption, it's an insanely resource-rich nation that the Deep State has been salivating over ever since the early 1990s.

  11. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Judge allows lawsuit to proceed vs Meta for referencing cheaper H1B workers over Americans in violation of multiple laws including the H1B program.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/judge-says-meta-must-face-lawsuit-alleging-hiring-bias-against-us-citizens

    1. Commenter_XY   4 months ago

      It is about time. H1b has been abused by Big Tech.

  12. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    Writing an email of 5 bullets about what you accomplished last week is the same as living in north Korea. Woman spends longer on TikTok stating this than just sending a quick email.

    https://x.com/anammostarac/status/1894934435583439025

    1. Idaho-Bob   4 months ago

      I have to send status updates three times a week. My boss also wants a "highlights" email once a week. Good stuff that happened, not just bad news.

    2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      "Hey, Mother's, what are you guys working on right now?"

      It feels like rape.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

        Sarc actually claimed that.

    3. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

      Part of me wonders if their strategy is that they'll actually get their workforce numbers down to the targeted level simply by seeing who acts like a passive-aggressive bitch about having to do a Weekly Activity Report, something that isn't all that uncommon in the military, ironically enough. They don't even take that long and are a pretty common feature of most jobs, even government ones like teachers.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        Works for me.

      2. BYODB   4 months ago

        by seeing who acts like a passive-aggressive bitch about having to do a Weekly Activity Report, something that isn't all that uncommon in the military, ironically enough.

        Reminds of that government worker who said these people are wearing their 'second uniform', pretending that everyone in Civil Service is former military, which begs the question of how they aren't used to such reporting mechanisms.

        Of course, it was just a lie and an obvious one at that.

        "We've gotta protect our phoney balony jobs, gentleman!"

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

          Honestly, most of the complaints about it I'm seeing are coming from women who've had their hand held from childhood all the way in to the professional ranks. Accountability, even mundane shit like this, to these bitches is like sunlight on a vampire.

          1. BYODB   4 months ago

            I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but it does remind me of my favorite line from the film As Good As It Gets from Jack Nicholson.

            Woman: How do you write women so well?

            Nicholson: I think of a man, then I take away reason and accountability.

    4. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

      How are these people not identified or what department they work in? It's not like they're wearing masks.

  13. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    ...if you're Vance and you're trying to achieve the foreign policy objective of massively reducing or totally cutting American support for Ukrainian defense, this would be one way to go about it.

    Forcing Europe to take a lead role in its own members' defense is something Hitler would do.

    1. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

      To be fair, a liberal press is not Vance's biggest personal concern here. They're all but toothless at this point. But defense contractors will Hillary's phone number...?

      1. Spiritus Mundi   4 months ago

        He should stay out of small planes and gyms.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          And Arkansas?

          1. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

            Arkansas is the safest place to be these days. The old bitch won't go anywhere near it.

    2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      Remember when Hitler didn't want to invade Russia, and wanted France, Belgium and Poland to build up their military?

      We're all reliving the nightmare.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        This time, can we fast-forward to the end and drop an A-bomb on Japan?

  14. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

    BBC admits they were duped by Hamas.

    @NiohBerg
    BREAKING:

    The BBC actually takes responsibility and accepts that their Gaza documentary, whether intentional or not, was Hamas propaganda and will never be aires again.

    Hell freezing over.
    Document

    https://x.com/NiohBerg/status/1895200181374886334

    Luckily our favorite truth tellers here will never admit this.

    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      Wow. They really miss that USAID money.
      Wasn't it like a third of their budget?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        They might be forced to increase their TV license fee.

      2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        Not just the money, but also the comradely of fellow one-world elitists.

      3. BYODB   4 months ago

        The BBC probably doesn't give a fuck, they are genuinely nationalized and funded by the UK government itself.

        One of the many reasons why using BBC sources is...unwise. It's basically taking the governments word for whatever the story happens to be.

        1. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

          The BBC is bravely portraying all those African Englishmen that made England great and history has covered up.

  15. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    Watch the latest Just Asking Questions ft. Matt Taibbi...

    So far it's pretty interesting.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

      Don't watch it. Dont fall for Lizs youtube demands. Listen on a podcast service.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        YouTube is tolerable if you have a very strong ad blocker, as I’ve been using.

        1. Randy Sax   4 months ago

          For podcasts I do pandora, not for music though. 30 seconds of ads after every song. Unlistenable.

        2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

          Brave browser blocks it all. I haven't watched a YouTube ad in years.

      2. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

        Yes, that's what I am doing, as the police frown on my watching YouTube whilst driving for some reason.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Nazis!

  16. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    The movie Anora, directed by Sean Baker, won an Academy Award for best original screenplay...

    Top prize! (I assume.)

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

      Over 100 movies were disqualified, such as Reagan, for not having a 30% DEI metric for unrepresented classes of people.

      1. Idaho-Bob   4 months ago

        Please tell me this is sarcasm.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

          Sadly, no it’s not. The Academy Awards are that far gone.

          1. A Thinking Mind   4 months ago

            I wanted that shitty musical about a transsexual drug lord to win because it’s extremely stupid and the Academy deserves it.

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

              And it would help convince the few normies who still admire Hollywood, and the Oscars, to let it go.

            2. Eeyore   4 months ago

              Is that the one where the trans woman is played by a biological woman? That can't win. Having a real woman play a fake woman is the biggest sin in the book.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                Isn’t that the whole plot of Victor/Victoria?

              2. Square = Circle   4 months ago

                Is that the one where the trans woman is played by a biological woman?

                No, the trans woman is played by a trans woman, but one who hates Muslims. And the Mexicans are played by Spaniards.

                Who they thought was going to like this movie is anyone's guess.

                1. BYODB   4 months ago


                  Who they thought was going to like this movie is anyone's guess.

                  Movies like this aren't made for an audience. I have to imagine some producer had money to burn. It's an open secret that 'trans' in film is just about a sure-fire failure, although maybe they were hoping that the Oscar committee would be swayed by their wokeness.

                2. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

                  And the Mexicans are played by Spaniards.
                  It's 1519 all over again.

        2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

          Not sarcasm, racism. DEI is what MLK Jr. marched against.

          1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

            Mlk Jr marched in order to have the black community be wholy dependant on the goverment.

        3. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

          It is not.

        4. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

          X-Men ESG: The Last Stand.

        5. TrickyVic (old school)   4 months ago

          He's not.

          https://www.bizpacreview.com/2025/03/03/reagan-biopic-disqualified-from-oscars-over-failure-to-meet-dei-criteria-1526275/

        6. TrickyVic (old school)   4 months ago

          Also,

          https://movieweb.com/the-oscars-disqualified-over-100-films-for-best-picture-this-year/#:~:text=The%20Academy%20of%20Motion%20Picture%20Arts%20and%20Sciences,already%20been%20excluded%20from%20the%20Best%20Picture%20category.

          1. TrickyVic (old school)   4 months ago

            From the above article,

            ""There are some potentially heavy hitters among the 116 listed by The Academy. Ben Taylor's moving drama about the discovery of IVF, Joy, Anna Kendrick's directorial debut, Woman of the Hour, and the Barry Keoghan-led drama, Bird, all failed to meet the necessary criteria from The Academy to qualify. The official ruling states:""

            I wonder if Anna Kendrick feels mugged over the exclusion.

  17. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    Last month, a group of moderate Democratic consultants, campaign staffers, elected officials & party leaders gathered in Loudoun County, Virginia, for a retreat where they plotted their party's comeback.

    Are they willing to break ties with the woke community? If not, they're wasting their time. Just jeep your heads down and wait for the GOP to fuck up instead.

    1. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

      Lol, reading that list. Own the failed governance of cities? They didn't fail at shit, as lining the right pockets was their goal and they achieved it in fucking spades.

      1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

        Standard leftist ideology is to rebrand their failures every time they fail. This is that.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Not surprising since leftist ideology became religious dogma, and, by definition, the holy doctrine cannot be wrong.

      2. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

        Read the comments. The white wimmens and the soyboy slackers are having none of it. They're so behind the times they are still complaining about millionaires and billionaires though even Bernie has moved on to only castigating the billionaires alone.

    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

      To be fair, they're recognizing that wokeism is political poison right now. But changing course involves actual sincerity, and they don't have it. The appeals to patriotism and American iconography stand out, because these people have been slagging such displays for well over 55 years at this point. Their love of the US is entirely contingent on their side being in charge, whereas the right actually does love the US as a nation, regardless of who's running the place, because their devotion is to the nation itself, not a marxist theological construct.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        I am not sure the left, even the DNC, can detach itself from progressivism, given the number of gender-confused blue hair types in their institutions.

  18. lwt1960   4 months ago

    If you're going to rely on the transcript to make your case, you need to do it as an unedited stenographic transcript would and show all the constant interruptions and talking over by Zelenskyy. He wasn't exactly following Roberts Rules of Order. You might also note Eli Lake's article was part of a four-part point-counterpoint the FP published and was just one point of view. Backing it all up with a quote from the NYT is downright silly, as is your conclusion about Vance's motives.

    1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

      Or, you know, start from the beginning, not the part where JdV starts in.

      This is officially Bad Liz

      1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

        It was very disappointing. I like to give Liz the benefit of the doubt sometimes because she’s got to get up and release a newsletter covering several different stories by 9:30, so sometimes just grabs some headlines and toss them in. This happened Friday though. She’s had all weekend to look into this.

    2. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

      I feel like I wandered into MSNBC

      JD Vance didn’t ambush anybody, Zelensky did. The deal could have been signed twice before Friday, he insisted on a WH visit. He was advised by Susan Rice to do this. He turned a photo op into a renegotiation. Vance was there because they saw this coming.

      Lost in all this is that the Minerals deal IS a Security Deal. We can’t put boots on the ground in Ukraine, Putin would never stand for it (nor should he). Zelensky wants WWIII so that Russia is expelled (at the cost of millions maybe billions of lives). Rice and Obama want Trump embarrassed. So many idiot Journos are all too compliant.

      1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

        To put things in terms even Bad Liz can understand, let’s suppose Chrystia Freeland becomes PM of Canada.

        Freeland is scared Trump will invade Canadia, so she invites China in as a security partner. What would you suppose would happen if the Chinese put 3 Divisions in Southern Ontario? Would that be a security threat to the US? Would that spark a real war?

        Instead, if Freeland gave the Chinese the maple syrup business, the Chinese could put in a lot of people and non-military equipment, it would not be a direct threat to us, and we still couldn’t invade without risking war with China.

        1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

          Chrystia Freeland becomes PM of Canada

          It terrifies me every day knowing that either her or Mark Carney will end up as interim PM for a while.

          1. Lester75   4 months ago

            The ‘51st state’ bullshit freaked out the Canadians. They won’t vote for anyone who was ever remotely pro-Trump. Good work Mr. President.

      2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

        He was advised by Susan Rice to do this

        What is the evidence for this claim?

        1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

          HE MET WITH “Anti-Trump Democrats” BEFORE THE WHITE HOUSE - ACCORDING TO ANTI-TRUMP DEMOCRAT CHRIS MURPHY.

          Susan Rice was immediately on TV with the talking points.

          Do 5 seconds of your own research, and GFY

          1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

            The sea lion doesn't care about easily found things that contradict his narratives.

          2. Quicktown Brix   4 months ago

            HE MET WITH “Anti-Trump Democrats” BEFORE THE WHITE HOUSE - ACCORDING TO ANTI-TRUMP DEMOCRAT CHRIS MURPHY.

            So What? I ate breakfast before I wrote this, but that doesn't mean my breakfast caused me to write this.

            Let me clarify the question: What is the evidence that Zelensky was convinced to orchestrate this feud in his meeting with Dems that occurred before his meeting with Trump?

            1. Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)   4 months ago

              His behavior?

            2. Juliana Frink   4 months ago

              Evidence? Well that's simple. Just play the video of the meeting the Dems had with Zelensky and see exactly what was said... Right?

              ...Oh wait, you mean the Dems didn't record THEIR meeting with Zelensky for transparency?

              ... That's odd... I mean, who would think that recording an important meeting with the president of a country wouldn't be a great way to show the world that everybody is being honest???

              1. Heedless   4 months ago

                It's almost as if high level negotiations should be carried out in private, so no messy disagreements can ruin the photo op.

                I'm still trying to figure out who thought it was a good idea to put Z and Trump (neither of whom is known for sticking to the script) in an extended press conference together.

                Fight in private, stand together in public. Anything else projects weakness and disunity.

                1. Juliana Frink   4 months ago

                  I don't disagree, with respect to diplomatic protocols. But seriously, when have the democrats EVER exposed themselves to sunlight?

                  1. Heedless   4 months ago

                    Diplomacy isn't supposed to take place in sunlight.

                    Too many big egos, too much opportunity to take offense, and too much to lose.

                    1. Juliana Frink   4 months ago

                      I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you assumed I said the opposite of what I said with respect to DIPLOMACY. On the other hand, I was making a joke about the democrats and THEIR meeting with Zelensky, suggesting they should've made IT public.

                      But the more I think about it, the democrats had no business meeting with Zelensky right BEFORE his meeting with Trump, and can only be seen (as boasted by Chris Murphy) as an attempt to derail an agreement that was considered a done deal. Gee... maybe it was more like an obstruction of an official proceeding or something...? Yeah... if we only had a tape of THAT. But like I inferred, democrats are allergic to sunlight.

      3. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        It’s also quite bizarre and surreal that every European leader sent out the exact same copypasta text supporting Zelensky at about the same time. This was coordinated.

        1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

          Yup.

          You'd think that they would've made it a little less obvious, you know, switch up the words a little. Not copy line for line.

          But it's exactly the same wording in far too short a time to coordinate the feat between themselves. So it brings up the disturbing question; who ordered all these prime ministers, presidents and defense ministers to post it?
          Who has that kind of power?

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

            WEF? That’s my best guess at this point.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

              It reeks of an Atlantic Council gayop, but I wouldn't be surprised if that Hun whore Ursula van der Leyen was the one who coordinated it.

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                Possible, but some suspect she’s not high enough in the food chain to make such an order.

              2. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

                QB: wHo iS Ursula van der Leyen?

                I wonder who she ment when she said “US partners”? I’m sure she meant Trump, right? Lol.

                Had good exchanges on the phone this weekend with
                @EmmanuelMacron
                and
                @Keir_Starmer
                .

                We discussed our unflinching support to Ukraine, financially and militarily.

                We shared updates on our contacts with US partners and discussed plans for the defence & security of our continent.

                https://x.com/vonderleyen/status/1893652551947403424

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

                  She's clearly referring to their Deep State contacts and various think-tank officials. Because it damn sure isn't the current administration.

            2. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

              I'm starting to suspect that the WEF, Club of Rome and Trilateral Commission are all just CIA fronts.

          2. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

            From 2014, this is how the EU views NATO and defense (tee hee)
            https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/first-five-women-defense-chiefs-shatter-natos-glass-ceiling-n39931

      4. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        "So many idiot Journos are all too compliant."

        Does compliant include rabid Trump hate and DNC-WEF support?

        1. damikesc   4 months ago

          It should be noted that, for the WEF, Zelensky was willing to wear a suit.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

            Of course. Zelensky views us as the purse, but the WEF as his bosses.

            1. Stuck in California   4 months ago

              the Bee brought this up Friday as well.

  19. Use the Schwartz   4 months ago

    Candidates should get out of elite circles and into real communities (e.g. tailgates, gun shows, local restaurants, churches).

    "How do you do, fellow kids?"

    1. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

      I think they already did that in their "what is a man" commercial or whatever that thing was.

      1. A Thinking Mind   4 months ago

        A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough of this! Have at you.

    2. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

      They forget to tell those candidates to leave the moral hectoring at the door. Ruining a tailgate because your concerned the charcoal grill is causing global warming is no way to make friends and influence people.

      1. Use the Schwartz   4 months ago

        Trans dude rollin' into the lot in a Leaf with some tofu for the grill:

        "Gather 'round and let's talk about Palestine! Don't worry I have plenty for everyone!"

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          "Well, everyone except white males. You guys sit in the corner over there and watch us oppressed people eat."

        2. Jefferson Paul   4 months ago

          You don't win friends with salad!

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Kj17oVHAk

      2. Ajsloss   4 months ago

        Ruining a tailgate because your concerned the charcoal grill is causing global warming is no way to make friends

        Nor do you win friends with salad.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

          No good story ever started with someone eating a salad.

          1. Jerry B.   4 months ago

            Brain salad surgery?

            1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

              I got to que my insecurity

              /just in time for Lundi Gras.

        2. Randy Sax   4 months ago

          Beer for the gents, jell-o shots for the ladies, and you can never go wrong with brats.

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

            And ridicule for the gender-indeterminate vegans.

            1. mad.casual   4 months ago

              In fact, forget the tailgating...

        3. Jefferson Paul   4 months ago

          Damn it. I didn't see your reply before I posted mine.

    3. mad.casual   4 months ago

      It's worse than that. I think they under appreciate the degree to which they've largely diminished and destroyed these institutions and how (not) welcome they would be there as such.

      When they say 'gun shows', do you think they mean "We need to go to SHOT Show", or do you think they mean "We need to buy more jerky, custom knives, and shot out M1s from retirees."?

      But, yeah, still clinging to the "The fundamental ideas that lead us to adopt the insanely evil progressive policies that everyone hated is good, we just need to do better about hiding the insanity and getting our message out."

  20. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

    "Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Donald Trump:"

    Well, it appears Liz is now also nothing but one more TDS-addled lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
    Fuck off and die, asshole.

  21. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

    Sucks for Ukraine, but they probably should be checking the USA debt clock for advice more than Nuland.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

      But she promised them a good time!

  22. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    President Donald Trump is on the verge of slapping new tariffs on Canada and Mexico while doubling a levy on China, moves that would dramatically expand his push to revive domestic manufacturing...

    Unions are still a thing in the U.S., aren't they?

    1. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

      Yes, unfortunately those parasites still exist. And still haven't learned that it is their own doing that caused the collapse of American manufacturing - from donations to Ds who support increasing the cost of doing business to demanding everyone buy their shit by force if necessary.

      1. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

        US manufacturing has NOT collapsed. The number of employees has been dwindling since 1943. The percentage of GDP has been steady, although COVID and Biden have made of a mess of all statistics.

    2. Longtobefree   4 months ago

      Not so much in the private sector.

      1. Randy Sax   4 months ago

        Depends on the industry. All my Ironworkers are union. And my carpenters.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Not in Texas, are you?

    3. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

      A Eugene Levy and one for his sister Meegene.

  23. Commenter_XY   4 months ago

    @LizWolfe....Ok, I generally like your take, BUT, this is total ignorance:

    Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Donald Trump

    Do better.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

      Narratives from New York - Liz

    2. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

      It’s worse than ignorance. It’s a coordinated marketing hatchet job she is propagating

      1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

        I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and say it's from ignorance.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Could it be too much Reason Koolade?

    3. Mike Parsons   4 months ago

      "appears to have masterminded a whole blowup "

      Maybe he got pissed that Z was trying to pull some shit, and called him out on it. He is echoing the sentiment that in part got him and Trump elected. Is that so bizarre?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        Looking at the video, it appears Vance was answering a question from someone off-screen, not even addressing Zelensky at all.

        1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

          That’s not where it started.

          The LAPD did not roll up on Rodney King laying on the street. Derek Chauvin did not tackle George Floyd from behind and choke him to death. USSR was not minding their business when the Nazis attacked them. Israel did not set out to genocide Gaza one day.

          1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

            There is a steady contingent of leftist "libertarian" thought that means to never respond to other aggressors. They always demand we ignore bad acts by favored groups, never responding. That's not what the NAP is.

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

              Nihilist Appeasement Policy?

              1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

                “Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.”

      2. windycityattorney   4 months ago

        You didn't say thank you enough! You are disrespecting our sacred oval office. You are not kissing Trump's ass enough. How dare you!

        And why aren't you wearing a suit?

        1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

          Retard detected.

          1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

            You left out the "asshole" part.

            1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

              No. I think he is so retarded he believes what he spews.

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

          With all the billions he's gotten, you'd think he'd be able to skim off $500 for something from Men's Wearhouse.

        3. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

          @IfindRetards

        4. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

          Refuted!

        5. Super Scary   4 months ago

          You didn't mention not having cards. 2/10

        6. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

          Nobody believes you’re an attorney.

        7. damikesc   4 months ago

          When you are begging for money after being given a lot and have virtually nothing to offer --- yeah, you'd best learn how to behave.

  24. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

    Did he also thank the Saigon whore that but his nose off?

    *for the academy award blurb

  25. Mike Parsons   4 months ago

    "a group of moderate Democratic consultants, campaign staffers, elected officials & party leaders gathered in Loudoun County, Virginia, for a retreat where they plotted their party’s comeback."

    Honestly their prescriptions are pretty damn solid. You could add it it a refocusing of the actual working class as opposed to catering to 'educated' elites, that would also be a huge help. Add to that 'stop shitting on whites as they are the largest voter demo' and you could win.

    The rub: democrats would have to get past their kryptonite - the optics of being called a racist/bigot/transphobe. All of the above will piss off the activist grifters, and the only possible way forward is to tell those grifters to fuck off and leave the party, as they are radioactive.

    I dont see dems doing that, they built their current 'obama coalition' brand completely on a foundation of victim identity politics.

    1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

      That's easy, the democrats should push for mor us involvement in foreign wars, more comics for trannies in Peru, and more radical marxism

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        All delivered in a flaming-trans candidate who likes to scold people.

    2. Marshal   4 months ago

      Honestly their prescriptions are pretty damn solid.

      True enough, several of these sound like a solid path toward decency. The first problem though is they are described as proposals, not adopted plans or resolutions.

      Secondly because this group is not a cross section of Dem leadership but specifically a group of "moderates" it's likely these were already this group's recommendations before the last election cycle and we saw they had effectively no influence within the party.

      The last problem is that while this approach puts Dems more in touch with voters it splits them from their activist base and propaganda machine. I don't believe Dems can be competitive without these elements and thus the majority of their party will always reject these types of proposals. It's not even clear to me this is a legitimate political movement, it could easily be a propaganda effort to convince the public these types of Dems exist and have influence.

      So while the existence of any small amount of reason among Dems is an improvement it isn't much of one.

    3. BYODB   4 months ago


      The rub: democrats would have to get past their kryptonite - the optics of being called a racist/bigot/transphobe. All of the above will piss off the activist grifters, and the only possible way forward is to tell those grifters to fuck off and leave the party, as they are radioactive.

      That's not a real rub though given that the only people amplifying the message of those fringe groups happens to be the Democrat party itself. If Democrats decided to stop doing that, and their partners in the Media simply didn't report on it, the whole issue would disappear overnight.

  26. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

    Pleas read George Washington's farewell address. He explicitly says don't get involved in Europe.

    1. Mike Parsons   4 months ago

      I think we need to just be concerning ourselves with the major world powers. The EU is a fucking joke of a society, coasting on past greatness, and is a lazy, fat and decadent society that produces nothing and frankly doesn't have sway anymore.

      We should gtfo

      1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

        It’s a society who’s elites are intentionally allowing them to be invaded by hoards from the 3rd world.

        1. Muzzled Woodchipper   4 months ago

          They’re not “allowing” it. They’re facilitating it.

    2. A Thinking Mind   4 months ago

      Well, who can blame him? The Terror had happened just a couple years prior, and basically half the continent had decided France was major liability and declared war on them. He was writing this at a time when General Bonaparte was fighting the Austrians in Italy.

      Yeah, it would have been wise to stay out of it. And then did we listen? Nope, 1812 dragged us into it.

      1. Sometimes a Great Notion   4 months ago

        And what really, really dragged us in was the failure of Europe to create a lasting peace after WWI. Since then the USA took control of securing the world and despite our own failures, did a heck of a job compared to the European powers prior.

        Here's hoping Europe has learned from us and grown up since the days of letting their petty squables burn the world.

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

          And what really, really dragged us in was the failure of Europe to create a lasting peace after WWI. Since then the USA took control of securing the world and despite our own failures, did a heck of a job compared to the European powers prior.

          It's not even just WW1--Western Europe's been on a complete holiday from history since 1989. This is the first time they've been worried about their own security in over 35 years. The people in charge right now were all in their teens and early 20s during a period where the left was telling them that Ronnie Raygun was going to provoke global thermonuclear war.

          On top of that, they've gone to outright canceling any election result where the "wrong" person won. We've sponsored some pretty nasty assholes in our time, but that's expected in Third World diplomacy. Western Europe is supposed to be above this kind of desperate petty shit.

          Now Daddy's talking about kicking them out of the house and telling them to get a job, and they have no clue how to react except by throwing temper tantrums.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

        Yeah, it would have been wise to stay out of it. And then did we listen? Nope, 1812 dragged us into it.

        To be fair, we didn't really have much of an option after the limeys started conscripting American sailors. Hell, Jefferson started an undeclared war on the Barbary pirates because they wouldn't stop fucking with American ships.

    3. Jerry B.   4 months ago

      "He explicitly says don't get involved in Europe"

      That ship sailed in 1917, or maybe 1898.

    4. Heedless   4 months ago

      Wise advice for a small, newly created nation of farmers in dealing with the expansionist and richer, more populous, and militarily superior nations of Europe is not necessarily good advice for a huge, wealthy, and established nation at the center of a global trade network when Europe is weaker and poorer than we are.

      1. Truthfulness   4 months ago

        Actually, it still is very useful. We wouldn't have Europe so dependent on us economically. Washington certainly wouldn't have wanted such a dependency to happen.

  27. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    ...protecting our technology industry and all Americans from the Luddite demands of Britain's Labour government.

    Can you blame them for being Luddite? Pre-tech reminds them of the era when they had an empire.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

      Be fair. They ruled the world with Tech 1.0: steam engines and coal mining.

  28. Fist of Etiquette   4 months ago

    Last week, the U.S. experienced its first measles death in a decade...

    I heard measles patient zero was the bear RFK, Jr., had in his trunk.

    1. Longtobefree   4 months ago

      Any serious "journalist" would be checking the documentation of patient zero.
      A whole lot of unvetted, unvaccinated people "leaked" into the USA during the reign of what's-his-name.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        Actually, the outbreak is centered in a rural Texas Mennonite community (though they do connect with colonies in Mexico).

        1. mad.casual   4 months ago

          "Oh, native Mennonites rather than illegal immigrants? Well then, by all means, purge them with mandates and fire." - Reason/MSM

        2. BYODB   4 months ago

          One would need to ask where such an insular community would come into contact with measles, of course.

  29. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

    "For Trump's base, the 50-minute exchange was proof positive of America First foreign policy—an ungrateful freeloader gets upbraided by the populist tribune. For Americans who still cling to the now unfashionable notion that the international system should be ruled by rules and not might, Friday's incident was a horror. From the perspective of Europe, it's the beginning of the end of the transatlantic alliance."

    But what about for the WEF Star Chamber types, and their NPR sycophants, who believe that the international system should be run by them?

  30. Moonrocks   4 months ago

    Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has asked the U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations toward Russia

    I thought that our policy has always been that we not engage in offensive cyber warfare when we're not at war. Has that change at some point or is Hegseth simply reaffirming it?

    1. Lester75   4 months ago

      So, unilateral cyber disarmament? When are the Russians going to stop the cyberattacks? Did we miss their stand down?

  31. JFree   4 months ago

    New York Dolls frontman David Johansen, who was huge in the '70s punk scene (and majorly influenced Morrissey), died over the weekend at his home on Staten Island.

    RIP. New York Dolls were the most English of the American rock and roll bands then. The only American 'glam rock' band though Iggy Pop was similar. Fit in well with the English glam rock scene of Bowie, Mott the Hoople, T Rex, Slade, Roxy Music, etc (including the crossover to theater of Rocky Horror). Which in turn 'helped' 'arena rock' bands like Queen and Elton John go overboard. None of which had much influence in the US until Kiss and more significantly the whole hair metal stuff of the 1980's. But a harder rocking amateur garage sound - which influenced the Ramones - who then came over to the UK for the one concert (July 4 1976) which kicked off punk (Sex Pistols, Clash, and the Damned all formed).

    Been decades since I've listened to that debut album. Looking forward to it.

  32. Boomer   4 months ago

    > Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded

    I think that's debatable. Trump and Vance appeared to be as surprised as the reporters in the room. It's just as likely that Zelensky planned for this to force this discussion in front of the cameras.

    1. windycityattorney   4 months ago

      How could Zelensky have forced this in front of the cameras? Is Zelensky in charge of cameras/media at the oval office suddenly?

      Trump is turning the presidency into a reality tv show.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   4 months ago

        Retard. Who controls the international media deliberately present at the interview? Hint: the same people that control Zelensky.

        1. JFree   4 months ago

          The White House took control of the White House press corps on February 25. That's why they barred AP and Reuters (the two 'permanent consolidators' who provide their feeds to any press that aren't there). Why they invited TASS instead.

          Indeed - if there is anything premeditated about how Zelensky was going to be ambushed - this is it. The WH selected the media in that room.

          1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

            Wow you are retarded. The ap is no longer invited to the oval office. They are still in the press briefings. Foad

          2. Truthfulness   4 months ago

            AP and Reuters are still free to attend and report the news, they just lost certain special privileges.

            1. JFree   4 months ago

              They are not free to attend 'events'. Meaning events like the meeting, locations like the Oval Office or Air Force One. Not free to attend anything except the White House Press Conference. Read the fucking link - and the White House source itself. Including the statement by Trump.

              Are they free to make shit up? Of course I guess. But AP and Reuters are aggregators. Their function is to provide information/feeds to the thousands of media/journalists who don't have DC branches.

              You are saying that asking questions is a 'privilege' for the media. It is NOT. That is in fact merely parroting the exact words that the WH press secretary is using.

              It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Reason has not mentioned this story. After all - they are basically useful idiots for an ideology of the donor class. Which is certainly not Trump's ideology unless it overlaps with his donor class. But Reason aren't really journalists and they certainly don't give a shit about the First Amendment. Which fits with most commenters here.

              1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

                Those events are always limited in number dumbnuts.

      2. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

        Did Zelensky not see the reporters and TV cameras? Was he unaware of them?

        Do tell.

      3. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

        "zELenSKyY diDn'T kNoW tHeRe wOuLd bE cAmeRaS tHerE"

        1. mad.casual   4 months ago

          I prefer for all my peace/war negotiations to take place off camera and behind closed doors where tin pot foreign dictators can shake down foreign leaders for money without their populations knowing.

          1. Heedless   4 months ago

            Well, yes, because grown-ups understand that the negotiations should take place in private.

            Heads of state should only go on camera when all the details have been nailed down to deliver a scripted celebration, because otherwise you risk embarrassment for all involved, and that a $500 billion treaty gets blown up because the principals started bickering in front of the cameras.

      4. sarcasmic   4 months ago

        Trump is turning the presidency into a reality tv show.

        Pretty much.

        1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

          Yeah, I thought a little goosestepper like you would be angry about government being practiced in sunlight with full transparency. Just like Hitler, right?

          1. sarcasmic   4 months ago

            Is that why you guys say FOIA requests are lawfare?

          2. chemjeff radical individualist   4 months ago

            "Full transparency" means kicking out Reuters and instead putting MTG's boyfriend in as a "reporter". Right.

            1. Truthfulness   4 months ago

              Reuters is still free to attend and report the news, they only lost certain special privileges. The White House has actually been transparent about that.

              Being transparent does not allow abuse of giving away information, like doxxing.

        2. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

          And the Dems turned Biden into an unreality TV show. I know which one I prefer.

      5. Super Scary   4 months ago

        "How could Zelensky have forced this in front of the cameras?"

        By talking about it in front of the cameras that were there. What kind of question is this?

        1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

          The kind posted by a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.

  33. Longtobefree   4 months ago

    "Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and President Donald Trump"

    Wait, what??!!
    J. D. Vance is a democrat? Was he at that meeting?

  34. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

    The archetype Reason libertarian:

    Senate Bill 3: Gun ban contortions belie Polis’ ‘Free State of Colorado’ claims

    Sooo dreamy.

    1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

      It is amazing who Reason falls for in their quest for a Democrat libertarian.

      1. Michael Ejercito   4 months ago

        Are any apologies coming?

      2. Eeyore   4 months ago

        Pro food truck and pro ass sex libertarian.

      3. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

        2A just isn’t one of their prominent issues.

        1. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

          It's Sullums only libertarian lane.

  35. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

    When even Jake Tapper notices:

    Interesting study: “EU imports of Russian fossil fuels in the third year of the invasion surpassed the EUR 18.7 bn of financial aid they sent to Ukraine in 2024.”

    1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

      No comment from the pro-EU leftists in the crowd?

  36. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

    Polish PM Donald Tusk:

    “500 million Europeans are asking 300 million Americans to defend them against 140 million Russians.”

    1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

      Looks like the Euros have the numbers to go it alone.

      1. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

        There are a lot of idiots claiming the domino theory, that if we don't stop Putin right now, he's gonna roll through Poland, Germany, and France, and control all of Europe.

        1. Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)   4 months ago

          Might be an improvement.

          1. mad.casual   4 months ago

            Given the fallen dominoes around other contemporary foreign invaders, if the Russkies simply pay for the girls they rape it's light years ahead of where they're at.

        2. Longtobefree   4 months ago

          Historical reminder: the domino theory in southeast Asia turned out to be correct.

          1. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

            Historical reminder: it did not. Where exactly did communism show up after South Vietnam went from just plain corrupt to corrupt communism?

            1. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

              Falling domino's update. We finally won the Vietnam War.

              https://dominos.vn/en

            2. Truthfulness   4 months ago

              Pol Pot

        3. Vernon Depner   4 months ago

          Germany and France have already fallen to the Caliphate. They should welcome the possibility of being liberated by the Russians.

        4. Jefferson Paul   4 months ago

          Schrodinger's Russia:

          Russia is simultaneously a powerful nation that will steamroll the rest of Europe if it's not stopped now, and simultaneously also a weakened former super-power that can be easily defeated if US and NATO just give a little more support to the Ukrainian freedom-fighters who are beating the pants off of Russia.

          Russia exists as both of these mutually-exclusive states
          until it's determined which reality needs to be invoked in a debate to further the MIC war machine.

          (I'm aware that I use the "Schrodinger's X" set up a lot.)

          1. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

            Schrödinger's Schrödinger

            https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/7268073/erwin-schr%C3%B6dinger

    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   4 months ago

      Damn, I didn't think I'd see that USAID thrall Tusk go off script.

    3. BYODB   4 months ago

      Yes, this has been pointed out and it's been crickets every time it's mentioned.

      The real threat of Russia these days, as it's been for a while, is their nuclear arsenal. Their conventional forces have been revealed to be impotent.

      Of course, having nuclear submarines and nuclear weapons makes them a threat still, but a threat that can never really be used without being destroyed themselves. It's a MAD theory catch-22. Without the fear of their conventional forces, they aren't left with any other sticks beyond their energy export business that also hurts them if they try to leverage it.

  37. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

    It can’t be overstated how central hatred of low-caste whites is to the identity and status of the left

    The idea of being ruled by one of the untouchables causes them to drop all pretense

    1. Michael Ejercito   4 months ago

      This explains their hostility against private gun ownership.

      It is not motivated by a desire to suppress street crime.

      It is motivated by their animus against the White male conservative.

  38. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

    I am tired of being the world's policeman. People and countries need to stand up for themselves, and it especially irks me the way the EU levies billion dollar fines on US companies because their green raw deal needs other people's money to survive and because they aren't getting enough of our money in government military spending to protect their sorry socialist asses.

    Yes, Putin's the aggressor, a dictator, and all round bad guy.

    But Zelenksy canceled elections due to some Ukraine territory being occupied by the Russians; Even Lincoln didn't do that when 1/3 of the country was in rebellion. Zelensky also shut down newspapers and other media outlets, which is no big deal considering what John Adams, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and Biden also did. But it's still the sign of a dictator, not a democracy.

    Ukraine "lost" $100 billion, half, of our aid to fight Russia. Magic 8-ball says Ukraine apparently doesn't want aid as much as Zelensky says. I've loaned money to family and friends, sometimes given it, and I can say for sure that if any of them couldn't account for half of it, they sure as hell wouldn't get any more.

    I don't give a shit if JD Vance or Trump were looking for an excuse to make Zelensky look bad; he's made himself look worse, losing $100 billion and acting like a thug dictator at home.

    If Ukraine were not corrupt as hell; if my own government weren't stealing taxes to send to corrupt cronies who paid Hunter $1 million for access to Joe, and then impeached Trump for having the gall to tell Ukraine to investigate that corruption; I would probably be sending money to help Ukraine fight Putin.

    But that's not reality. Fuck being the world's policeman to every slacker socialist corrupt cesspit.

    1. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

      "Yes, Putin's the aggressor, a dictator, and all round bad guy.
      But Zelenksy canceled elections"

      This is pretty much my opinion too.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

      +1.

    3. Dillinger   4 months ago

      >>Zelenksy canceled elections

      and church.

      1. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

        I didn't know that. What happened?

        1. Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)   4 months ago

          He declared eastern ortodox Christians are subversive and banned them.
          He also consolidated all Ukranian media into a single gov entity

    4. Super Scary   4 months ago

      It's certainly nice that so many countries are tacitly agreeing that the US was in the charge of the world and now we're "giving it up."

      1. Use the Schwartz   4 months ago

        LOL, spot on.

    5. chemjeff radical individualist   4 months ago

      But Zelenksy canceled elections due to some Ukraine territory being occupied by the Russians; Even Lincoln didn't do that when 1/3 of the country was in rebellion.

      Ukraine's constitution permits the canceling of elections during times of martial law. The US Constitution does not permit this. It is not great to cancel elections, but it is also understandable: trying to hold elections during wartime would make polling stations tempting military targets.

      Ukraine "lost" $100 billion

      Not true. Instead, only about $75 billion of the $175 billion was direct aid to Ukraine. The rest was indirect support. For example, the cost of deploying extra American soldiers to Poland was counted as "aid to Ukraine" even though it didn't directly benefit Ukraine, it was only done in response to the war.

      https://www.csis.org/analysis/where-missing-100-billion-us-aid-ukraine

      losing $100 billion and acting like a thug dictator at home.

      So he didn't actually "lose" $100 billion, and he was acting according to his nation's constitution when he canceled elections, even if we here might disagree with that decision.

      With this new information, does your opinion of him change?

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        Ukraine's constitution permits the canceling of elections during times of martial law.

        So you suppprt them being a dictatorship even during times of war? You do realize that that is one reason Zelensky doesn’t want peace, right?

        Do you think we really should be supporting a dictatorship?

      2. Stupid Government Tricks   4 months ago

        What does this have to do with morality? Suddenly you're all about rule of law, no matter how unfair and immoral.

        Ukraine's constitution permits ...

        The Enabling Act which turned Hitler into a dictator was constitutional. So was the Holocaust and the whole damned war, according to the constitution in effect at the time.

        Mussolini became dictator legally and constitutionally.

        Stalin followed Lenin legally and constitutionally.

        SO WHAT?

  39. Dillinger   4 months ago

    >>Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded a whole blowup

    c'mon. nobody reading this thread believes your take is this stupid.

    1. Longtobefree   4 months ago

      Maybe so, but damn if didn't still click through - - - - - - - -

  40. Mother's Lament - Buttplug = Neocons (same motive)   4 months ago

    Now Alex Soros is going to have to use his dad's money instead of all of yours.

    (opinion piece) It's Official: USAID Is All But Dead

    1. Dillinger   4 months ago

      how about Jen Psaki's better looking sister stealing from us too?

    2. JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)   4 months ago

      Musk had a really good comment about Soros and his understanding of arbitrage. Soros would invest 1M in an NGO, then have given mental funds it in the 10-100M a year.

      He did this with his businesses as well. I posted an article a few weeks back where Soros started companies in Europe to hire refugees, then in the same article was demanding European governments to grant refugees at least 15k in euros a year. Basically subsidizing his businesses.

      1. InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)   4 months ago

        It always boils down to greed with these guys, Soros and the WEF.

  41. SIV   4 months ago

    New York Dolls frontman David Johansen, who was huge in the '70s punk scene (and majorly influenced Morrissey)

    Millennials are fucking retarded about most all of the popular culture that preceded them. David Johansen influenced a lot of people but, other than liking the band, it doesn't show in Morrissey's music at all. The New York Doll most influential on the "punk scene" was guitarist Johnny Thunders.

    1. Dillinger   4 months ago

      most influential Smith was Johnny Marr as well.

  42. Dillinger   4 months ago

    >>New York Dolls frontman David Johansen

    Trash! r.i.p. Buster Poindexter

  43. Dillinger   4 months ago

    >>Tulsi Gabbard, the new director of national intelligence, "got the first big thing right," writes Andrew McCarthy in National Review

    McCarthy finally tired of looking retarded all the time?

    1. Don’t get eliminated   4 months ago

      We should start a game called “Who was completely funded by USAID?” where we look at everyone changing their tunes all of the sudden.

      1. Dillinger   4 months ago

        shorter game who wasn't on the take?

        1. Ajsloss   4 months ago

          "Hey, you did me twice!" -Clancy Wiggum

          1. Dillinger   4 months ago

            lol I just used "you missed the baby, you missed the blind man ..." at lunch

        2. Fats of Fury   4 months ago

          Hitler?

  44. Dillinger   4 months ago

    >>"The long-promised tariffs scheduled to take effect Tuesday ...

    have time to achieve their goals without being levied.

  45. Marshal   4 months ago

    As far as Zelensky goes everyone has the wrong focus, maybe by design. The question is how the Ukraine expects to end the war without negotiating with Russia. It's been three years, is their plan to keep fighting until every last man not part of a government kidnapping squad has been killed at the front, then give up the whole country instead of the Donbas?

    There's a scene in the movie the Battle of the Bulge where the Nazi leader says that staying in uniform fighting is their victory. This drives the Sgt to transfer because it shows him leadership already understands they will never win and that his sons, the next generation, will suffer the impact of war as well. At the time this was meant to demonstrate the heartlessness of the Nazis.

    Are we now adopting this for ourselves? And the only reason the left thinks anyone has to oppose it is that they support Putin? What morally and intellectually bankrupt fools.

    1. Super Scary   4 months ago

      "And the only reason the left thinks anyone has to oppose it is that they support Putin? "

      It's certainly weird that, in the minds, nearly every bad thing that happens in the world can be traced back to Putin.

      1. Marshal   4 months ago

        nearly every bad thing that happens in the world can be traced back to Putin.

        Everything Dems do is driven by domestic politics. Right now everything bad is Putin because their brand demands it to support the Russian Collusion Hoax and Russian Influenced Election hoaxes. But remember both Obama and Hillary Clinton sucked up to Putin before he became useful to attack Republicans. Obama famously criticized Romney for opposing Russia then later told Medvedev to tell Putin he'd have more negotiating freedom after his re-election. Hillary gave Putin a "reset" button which symbolically blamed Bush for the animosity between our countries. Dems are pushing the anti-Putin hardline so people won't remember they sucked up to Putin themselves.

        This is similar to how Dems flipped sides on covid. When covid was first spreading Nancy Pelosi and Bill DeBlasio were encouraging people to join Chinese new year events and hug a Chinese person because concern over covid was racist. As it spread they changed policy to a hard-line stance to cement in everyone's memory they were the anti-covid party.

        This is why their positions are so contradictory and illogical.

        1. JFree   4 months ago

          Everything Dems do is driven by domestic politics

          Everything Americans do is driven by domestic politics. It can't really ever be otherwise because Americans are complete idiots when it comes to even identifying anything outside the US. Regular folks who have no need to 'know better' and 'career' type deep staters who can't even speak a language other than English.

          Read the words by Vance above - who is the audience of those speeches? He's not even talking to Zelensky and certainly not to anyone outside the US. He's talking to his base - through media invited there by the WH. That's domestic politics.

          It's why he can respond to a snarky question by Zelensky - Have you ever been to Ukraine to see what's happening there?. With basically. I've seen it on TV so I know what's happening there. Domestic politics.

          1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

            "...It can't really ever be otherwise because Americans are complete idiots..."

            It's amusing when smug imbeciles make blanket statements like this, not realizing they called themselves an idiot.

  46. Incunabulum   4 months ago

    >Vice President J.D. Vance appears to have masterminded

    Oh, it was JD Vance, not the people who met with Zelensky and pressured him into being confrontational?

    More BlueAnon conspiracy theories.

    Lie, misdirect, and obfuscate - just throw shit out there and see what sticks to the wall. They've been doing this since 2014 and you guys still take it seriously.

  47. Incunabulum   4 months ago

    > For Americans who still cling to the now unfashionable notion that the international system should be ruled by rules and not might

    You know what's sad? These people believed this.

    They never asked *why do the people making the rules get to make the rules?*

    Because they had power. So they made rules benefit those making the rules. Now other countries have power - and they're changing the rules to benefit them.

    Its always been about might.

    1. Longtobefree   4 months ago

      Tell it to the Vatican.

  48. Flaco   4 months ago

    "Now, in another escalation, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has asked the U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations toward Russia."

    I'm surprised Liz wrote that. How is ENDING offensive operations "another escalation"?

    1. Longtobefree   4 months ago

      Welcome to Reason.

  49. Flaco   4 months ago

    Vance was correct about how Zelensky campaigned for the Dems in Pennsylvania during the election season. It was written about at the time:

    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4897284-zelensky-vance-pennsylvania-republicans-criticize/

    And what Trump and Vance forgot to mention in the meeting was the Ukrainian oligarchs giving Hunter money for nothing.

    Ukraine made some bad mistakes by alienating one of America's two major parties.

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

      Not to mention a good portion of the electorate, including some in CA!

  50. edbeau99   4 months ago

    The article leaves out what Trump said just before Vance's comment: "Time for one more question."

    In other words, this was a wrap-up and the real negotiations were about to begin behind closed doors. Then Vance made that first comment. At that point Zelenskyy had three options:

    1. Agree with Vance, mention the restrictions and delays the Biden administration had put on weapon deliveries or, if he wanted to do a full Keir Starmer suck-up, thank Trump for the Javelin missiles that helped to turn back the initial Russian attack; or

    2. Say nothing; or

    3. Go into a two minute rehash of the history of the Russian aggression with aspersions cast on the U.S.

    Obviously option 3 was a highly questionable tactic. It is almost as if Zelenskyy wanted the whole deal to blow up, which is why he had to cram that controversial statement in before the press left and they went into the real negotiations. There are some rumours that Victoria Nuland (of the phony Ukraine impeachment) and Susan Rice (of the Russia Collusion Hoax) talked to Zelenskyy before the meeting and suggested getting tough with Trump.

    1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   4 months ago

      The negotiations were over 2 weeks ago

      Supposedly

  51. MWAocdoc   4 months ago

    "Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has asked the U.S. Cyber Command to halt offensive operations toward Russia."

    The line between offense and defense here is especially blurred. If a foreign power (or sponsored elements within a foreign power) are constantly probing our defenses for weak spots and taking advantage of those weak spots by attacking our cyber structure, is destroying their capabilities offense or defense? Is it possible to concentrate solely on maintaining an impenetrable defense, or is the shadow war unavoidable?

  52. MWAocdoc   4 months ago

    "Last week, the U.S. experienced its first measles death in a decade"

    You idiots won't get immunized because immunizations are a commie plot. Plus you idiots can't immunize illegal aliens because you illegalized them and can't find them long enough to immunize them against measles. Forget the United States of America - what we have here is the Confederacy of Dunces!

    1. Vernon Depner   4 months ago

      How 'bout we make sure they're immunized BEFORE we let them in?

    2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   4 months ago

      Lol. What idiots are you referring to doc? Cuz all the “idiots” who were leery of the covid vaccine are immunized from measles long ago.

      Ah, but this gives you a chance to insert your pet issue of virtue signaling your anti racism re the illegals coming in from the south, who you allow are likely a transmission vector due to low immunization rates in their homelands.

      This of course does not make them idiots, just poor brown people in need of a white savior like you.

      Lol. Double standards, virtue signaling and smug elitism. The douchebag trifecta. Nice job, doc.

    3. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

      "You idiots won't get immunized because immunizations are a commie plot."

      Can anyone offer a better example of slimy pile of TDS-addled shit?
      Didn't think so.
      Hey, MWAocdoc, please fuck off and die so your family doesn't have to apologize for the ignoramus in the attic.

  53. jagjr   4 months ago

    that White House diatribe by Trump and Vance was utterly embarrassing. watching POTUS & VP acting like poorly raised toddlers in a public forum was just cringe-worthy.

    1. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   4 months ago

      "that White House diatribe by Trump and Vance was utterly embarrassing."

      That comment should be embarrassing if you had the 4th grade intelligence capable of embarrassment.
      Fuck off and die, slimy pile of imbecilic TDS-addled shit.

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