The People Cheering Brian Thompson's Murder Can't Have the Medical Utopia That They Want
Whether private or public, third-party payment for health care is a huge problem.

Evoking a collective scream of despair from socialists and anti-corporate types, police in Pennsylvania arrested Luigi Mangione, a suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Thompson, they insist, stood in the way of the sort of health care they think they deserve and shooting him down on the street was some sort of bloody-minded strike for justice.
The assassin's fans—and the legal system has yet to convict anybody for the crime—are moral degenerates. But they're also dreaming, if they think insurance executives like Thompson are all that stands between them and their visions of a single-payer medical system that satisfies every desire. While there is a lot wrong with the main way health care is paid for and delivered in the U.S., what the haters want is probably not achievable, and the means many of them prefer would make things worse.
You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.
"Unlimited Care…Free of Charge"
"It is an old joke among health policy wonks that what the American people really want from health care reform is unlimited care, from the doctor of their choice, with no wait, free of charge," Michael Tanner, then of the Cato Institute, quipped in 2017.
The problem, no matter how health care is delivered, is that it requires labor, time, and resources that are available in finite supply. Somebody must decide how to allocate medications, treatments, physicians, and hospital beds, and how to pay for it all. A common assumption in some circles is that Americans ration medicine by price, handing an advantage to the wealthy and sticking it to the poor.
"Today, as everyone knows, health care in the US can be prohibitively expensive even for people who have insurance," Dylan Scott sniffed this week at Vox.
The alternative, supposedly, is one where health care is "universal," with bills paid by government so everybody has access to care. Except, most Americans rely on somebody else to pay the bulk of their medical bills just like Canadians, Germans, and Britons. And while there are huge differences among the systems presented as alternatives to the one in the U.S., third-party payers—whether governments or insurance companies—do enormous damage to the provision of health care.
Third-Party Payers, Both Public and Private, Raise Costs
"Contrary to 'conventional wisdom,' health insurance—private or otherwise—does not make health care more affordable," Jeffrey Singer, a surgeon and senior fellow with the Cato Institute, wrote in 2013. "The third party payment system is the principal force behind health care price inflation."
In the U.S., the dominance of third-party payment, whether Thompson's UnitedHealthcare, one of its competitors, Medicare, Medicaid, or something else, makes it difficult to know the price for procedures, medicines, and treatments—because there really isn't one price when third-party payers are involved.
Several years ago, the first Trump administration required hospitals to publish prices for services. My local hospital offers an Excel spreadsheet with wildly varying prices for procedures and services, from different categories of self-pay, Medicare, Medicaid, and negotiated rates for competing insurance plans.
"A colonoscopy might cost you or your insurer a few hundred dollars—or several thousand, depending on which hospital or insurer you use," NPR's Julie Appleby pointed out in 2021.
That said, savvy patients paying their own bills can usually get a lower price than that paid by insurance.
"When government, lawyers, or third party insurance is responsible for paying the bills, consumers have no incentive to control costs," Arthur Laffer, Donna Arduin, and Wayne Winegarden wrote in the 2009 paper, The Prognosis for National Health Insurance. After all, the premium or tax is already paid, right?
Other Countries Struggle With Similar Issues
Concerns about rising costs, demand, and finite resources apply just as much when the payer is the government.
"State health insurance patients are struggling to see their doctors towards the end of every quarter, while privately insured patients get easy access," Germany's Deutsche Welle reported in 2018. "The researchers traced the phenomenon to Germany's 'budget' system, which means that state health insurance companies only reimburse the full cost of certain treatments up to a particular number of patients or a particular monetary value." Budgeting is quarterly, and once it's exhausted, that's it.
Last year in the U.K., a Healthwatch report complained: "We're seeing a two-tier system emerge, where healthcare is accessible only to those who can afford it, with one in seven people who responded to our poll advised to seek private care by NHS [National Health Service] staff." Britain's NHS remains popular, but it has long struggled with the demand and expense for cancer care and other expensive treatments.
And Canada's single-payer system famously relies heavily on long wait times to ration care. "In 2023, physicians report a median wait time of 27.7 weeks between a referral from a general practitioner and receipt of treatment," the Fraser Institute found last year. "This represents the longest delay in the survey's history and is 198% longer than the 9.3 weeks Canadian patients could expect to wait in 1993."
You have to wonder what those so furious at Brian Thompson that they would applaud his murder would say about the officials managing systems elsewhere. None of them deliver "unlimited care, from the doctor of their choice, with no wait, free of charge." Some lack the minimal discipline imposed by what competition exists among insurers in the U.S.
We Need Less Government Involvement in Medicine
"Policymakers need to understand that the key to 'affordable health care' is not to increase the role of health insurance in peoples' lives, but to diminish it," Cato's Singer concluded.
My family found that true when we contracted with a primary care practice that refuses insurance. We pay fixed annual fees, which includes exams, laboratory services, and some procedures. My doctor caught my atrial fibrillation when he walked me across his clinic hall on a hunch to run an EKG.
The Surgery Center of Oklahoma famously follows a similar model for much more than primary care. It publishes its prices, which don't include the overhead and uncertainty of dealing with third-party payers.
Those examples point to a better health care system than what exists in the United States—or in most other countries, for that matter. They're probably not the whole answer, because it's unlikely that one approach will suit millions of people with different medical concerns, incomes, and preferences. But making people more, rather than less, responsible for their own health care, and getting government and other third-parties as far out of the matter as possible, is far better than cheering the murder of people who supposedly stand between us and an imaginary medical utopia.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Socializing medicine leads to the government promoting patient suicide as a cost saving measure as is happening in Canada and tge United Kingdom.
You cannot avoid 5ge issues of scarcity, and sovia,ism has no answer to that problem other than to wish it away.
Hey Rat, someone must not like you and slipped warfarin in your morning coffee... symptoms showing up in your post - either that or you need your keyboard replaced.
Why not just have price controls on health care?
We all know it is doctors' greed that makes health care so expensive.
The penalty of charging even one cent over the legal limit should be execution, and trials should be by military tribunal, bypassing the courts.
Price controls solve everything, and between that and executing doctors who step out of line, I don't see any possibility that your suggestions would lead to shortage of available care and long wait times, or anything like that at all.
Arent there price controls on paper bags and plastic bags in California?
I thought bags are outlawed in CA, and good citizens can earn bounties by turning in illegal baggers.
For execution, the one exception to the Dems’ opposition to capital punishment.
Healthcare is no different than any other infrastructure required for society.
Just like clean water is necessary for society.
Once people become unhealthy they can’t work.
Healthcare is service, not infrastructure. Insurance is a method of paying for healthcare.
People can't work without housing. Should the government pay for housing of every human being in America?
People are infrastructure.
The profit motive is a greedy wasteful system that served a purpose in an environment of unlimited resources and corrupt people but it is a system doomed to failure.
As resources become limited and other factors like pollution threaten it, society either develops and enforces rules for success or it fails. More greed and waste isn’t the solution. Consider a mars colony or the military.
The only reason that better systems to rule society haven’t been developed is that greedy corrupt people hold the positions that would develop them.
Therefore the first step in creating a successful society is to eliminate corruption.
Criminalizing lying is the necessary next step into the future.
Probably the Ames’s fault, right Misek?
You know who else improved his nation's infrastructure?
Studies show that when you remove the profit motive, which is a means to determine how efficient a hospital operates... people tend to waste more money, treatment becomes more expensive, and people who cannot afford care receive less free care.
In hospitals that are for profit, costs are managed better, treatments are less expensive, and they make enough money to provide more free treatment to charity cases.
"Why not just have price controls on health care?"
Better still, why not simply issue a license to practice medicine to all those, regardless of merit, who graduate high school? It's called Deregulation and it would be a blow to creeping credentialism.
" and trials should be by military tribunal, bypassing the courts."
As I understand, military tribunals are courts, and they also take the protection of defendant's rights more seriously than civilian courts.
Agree. And we should have price controls on whatever *you* do for a living, for good measure.
I think Z was being sarcastic.
Hard to tell, but based on stuff further down, yeah, probably.
Oh, I'm 100% sure of it.
How about a "price control" on GOVERNMENT!
"Socializing medicine leads to the government promoting patient suicide"
What are the statistics of those in the US under private medical care who end up killing themselves because of dissatisfaction?
Or the terminal elderly who kill themselves to avoid the last two years of estate-killing costs
Or the terminal elderly who kill themselves to avoid the last two years of estate-killing costs
Let me understand your position: other people should pay so they can leave their own money to their families?
Why exactly do their families deserve my money more than I do?
Because they outnumber you and want to take your stuff.
You omitted....and largely vote Dem.
I think they mostly vote "Me".
We do have at least one recent and notable case of someone killing someone else due to dissatisfaction.
That was in America. The idea here is to ignore the deficiencies of the American system and focus on Canada and the UK.
Because the health systems in Canada and the UK are horrifically bad.
And now the socialists are promoting CEO homicide, so costs will go up after every CEO adds a security detail.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/07/business/executive-security-unitedhealthcare/index.html
^THIS. +100000. Socialist Healthcare *is* the problem.
Go over to Reddit and read wtf these guys have been saying.. I don't think younger people care, they just want to be heard, everyone knows someone who was denied care they needed, unless all the libertarians on Reason are rich fat cats that is.
The people cheering on the murder of Brian Thompson helped create the current health care 'dystopia' that they so loathe. The power and (near) guaranteed profit of health insurance companies today are a direct result of the Affordable Care Act, and related policy changes since its passage.
And their solution always seems to be to go to 'single payer' (full-on, government only) health care. Which only makes things worse. There are good reasons that people from Canada and Europe travel to the USA to get health care.
I don't know how these people imagine health care works in a single payer system. I think they probably imagine it's just like US healthcare (where you can usually get pretty much what you need fairly quickly) but you never have to pay anything.
Like every idiot who shouts "Medicare for all", and has no idea that we still pay monthly premiums.
Ah, but Medicare makes sure the rich pay their fair share!
Shouting medicare for all in a crowded theater should be illegal.
with well funded healthcare people would imagine correctly, if ya look at England, those fucks over there cut taxes to the point of no return for a good healthcare system. They should just forgo it and start acting like America's totally fucked up healthcare - the one where the rich get richer and the poor die.
No reason to blame the Affordable Care Act entirely, all the basic factors were already in place. But unfortunately the ACA doubled down on it all, adding huge subsidies to increase the overall coverage rate.
"The people cheering on the murder of Brian Thompson helped create the current health care 'dystopia' that they so loathe. "
I thought that the legislation was written by lobbyists of the health care/health insurance industry. I don't think they are cheering to murder of one of their own. More likely they are securing their homes and looking into hiring bodyguards.
And it was supported by most Democrats. Do you know what "helped" means?
"And it was supported by most Democrats."
That's hardly surprising. The lobbyists who wrote the legislation donate large sums to Democratic candidates. This willful naivety on your part is not a good look. And if you believe that health care/health insurance lobbyists are cheering on the murder of one of their own, willful naivety is the least of your problems.
how's that???
" There are good reasons that people from Canada and Europe travel to the USA to get health care."
There are better reasons to go elsewhere for medical treatment. According to my sources the top destinations for medical tourism are:
Costa Rica
Singapore
Mexico
Thailand
Colombia
South Korea
Malaysia
India
Hungary
Brazil
Poland
Argentina
Albania
The US doesn't even appear on the list. There are good reasons for this.
Yes, and people go to those places for completely private, free market health care.
There are good reasons why US doesn't appear on a list of the top destinations for medical tourists. What could they be?
Try looking in a mirror for your answer.
The reason costs for even private health care in the above countries is cheaper than the US is because the core health coverage in ALL those places is socialized. That is what determines the base income of specialists since reimbursement is not on a fee-for-service onesie-twosie transaction basis but on a wholesale risk-pool basis. If specialists want more income - and private patients want to avoid lines - THEN a true free market transaction can be arranged without the field being tilted to the point where only one side has market power.
That is why eg - arthroscopic knee surgery (not replacement - just ligament/cartilage repair type stuff) in the US will cost an average of $19,000. It costs $4,000 - $10,000 - no insurance private pay - in most other countries.
This is nonsense - which can be proven by noting the price discrepancy still exists for non-covered services like liposuction, butt lifts, and other cosmetic surgeries. The reason first worlders go to foreign countries is that the cost of living and regulatory differences create extreme differences in pricing.
WTF does the cost of living have to do with anything? Cost of living is the PROVIDERS problem - not the customers problem. Further - Singapore has a very high cost of living. Further further - the reality is that many of those specialties DO in fact do work within the socialized system as well - eg reconstructive plastic surgery. They may be doing tummy tucks and botox lips outside the public care but they do work within the public system that requires far more certification/training/regs/etc
You people ALWAYS find excuses for why the US health care system isn't really shitty. Always based on ignorance, ideology, and a hefty helping of bullshit. It is why you people are completely irrelevant to any real world discussion. oooh oooh let's pretend liposuction is the solution to high cardiology costs. Totally fucking stupid.
WTF does the cost of living have to do with anything? Cost of living is the PROVIDERS problem - not the customers problem.
You are so economically illiterate your asking this is like requesting me to teach a two year old how to ready the WSJ. It's not that the WSJ is tough to understand, but you don't have the knowledge to follow a single complete sentence. It's just astonishing anyone would claim this. You're using prices as a stand-in for quality but can't figure out that pricing differences between countries impacts that. You people are clowns.
Then Singapore is what disproves everything you said. The cost of living is 30% higher than the average US. And that is the providers problem. IF they can pass those costs on to the customer, then they can do so. If they can't, then they can't - and it remains the providers problem.
Then Singapore is what disproves everything you said.
This just proves your dishonesty. This shows something else is happening in Singapore, not that the issue doesn't exist elsewhere. Everything is cheaper in almost every country on that list, housing, school, groceries, because everyone makes less. Yet you pretend the difference in your made up health costs is that their systems are government paid. Fucking ridiculous.
The difference in cost of living is not remotely comparable to the difference in prices for medical procedures. Nor are prices for different medical treatments in a particular country consistent with a 'cost of living' comparison. Nor should anyone who understands free markets believe that should be the case. Prices do not depend on irrelevant costs. They depend on competition, perceived value, etc. What you pay for residential rent is your problem.
One of the main problems is 'health insurance' covers way too many things. It was medical insurance for major health problems and emergencies . You paid for basic costs and office calls were lower. Now a doctor has to have extra staff just to file claims then wait on payment. Same with dental . My parents didn't have a lot of money when I was young, but, they could afford a doctor's visit or to get a tooth pulled.
Yeah, it's idiotic. I want a catastrophic plan with something like $20k deductible. That's all I need. Actual insurance against a catastrophic injury or illness.
Let's hope RFK Jr. gets right on that!
I want an HSA to which me, my employer and anyone else who wants to contribute can do so. I want to be able to buy catastrophic insurance with a $20k deductible using funds in my HSA. I want to be able to pay for Direct Primary Care from my HSA. I want my HSA to be part of my estate and inheritable by whomever I decide to give it to on my departing from earth.
Well said!
True. Also, it's way over used. It should be like car insurance, only used for major issues.
Health clinics have helped cut down on some over-usage.
Theres no logical stopping point.
I read someone else make this comparosn.
If it was okay to murder him, that what about drunk drivers who cause a crash that kills someone else?
https://www.threads.net/@rnmomof11/post/DDA_ds1y5yH
My daughter was killed 10/30/22 by a drunk driver. Claire Wenzel, Forever 26. Her drunk driver spent 2.5 months in jail. I've got a lifetime sentence without my precious daughter.
Why don't their victims' families get to murder THEM?
Do we REALLY want to go there?
Hey, the end of this path is the "right" to murder anyone you feel has wronged you. That should be fun.
Let's have The Purge, but in reverse. On one day each year, it's illegal to murder anyone you want to, but the other 364 days are the Purge.
Then there will be no lore democrats.
Celebrating the murder of anyone is wrong. Even if the murder victim was a terrible person.
Even Nickleback?
Look at this photograph!
Not until it's Friday. Friday!
Nickleback is a great band. You’ve made an enemy for life Jesse!
Well, the root cause is federal government laws, rules, and regulations the 'evil executives' are following, so maybe the shooter had the wrong target?
And given these types insist we live in a democracy and are fully behind the laws that enabled the current regime, they might want to turn that fire inward along with any bullets.
"unlimited care, from the doctor of their choice, with no wait, free of charge."
The first thing I learned in college economics is that resources are limited; you cannot have everything you want whenever you want it.
Want to impose prices controls on health care via a single payor system? Then sign up for rationing and very long wait times. What makes our current system "work" is the presence of private insurance reimbursements to offset the loss from Medicare and Medicaid. Take away the mixed payor system and what he get looks a lot like the VA, only worse.
"The first thing I learned in college economics is that resources are limited; you cannot have everything you want whenever you want it."
Obviously, you went to Trump University. Such MAGA talk is not allowed in our woke DEI education system.
I don't believe in DEI, MMT [magic money tree], intersectionality, trigger warnings, "WOKE" or any variation of magical thinking either. Guess that really puts me off the reservation.
Welcome to the Alt-right.
If you substitute almost any other good or service for "healthcare" in these outrageous discussions, it would look as ridiculous as it should be. For example, "What Americans want is unlimited cars, from the models of their choice, whenever they want a new car, free of charge." Or try "home" or "food" or "electricity" ... but somehow "healthcare" has magically achieved the status of "essential" when clothing, food, water, electricity, petrol, electronic devices, internet access, automobiles and "a job" have not yet made the cut.
Just call "X" a "human right" and there you go; economics no longer applies.
[I know you're being sarcastic...]
Health care is not a right.
Nor is housing, food, or any number of other things socialist nanny/welfare states try to say are fundamental human rights.
To me, it is a self-evident truth that your rights do not trump mine. If the only way you can afford food, shelter, clothing or health care is to force your fellow citizens to pay for them, then you have essentially decided that it is worth enslaving others to meet your needs.
Here's how we can see that health-care is not a right. Imagine that tomorrow every doctor, nurse, P.A., EMT, etc.--every health-care provider--decided to quit their jobs and refused to practice medicine. How then will you exercise your health-care "rights"?
Many people will say that doctors will have to be forced to provide care. And those people have just espoused slavery.
Slavery does not trouble them as long as it is for the common good and not for the profit of the slave owner. Such people who hear your accusation could not care less as long as they can pretend that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and justify socialism. Their narrative is impervious even to proof that implementing their system always and everywhere has resulted in massive failure accompanied by socioeconomic catastrophe, as long as they can pretend that previous attempts were not carried out correctly and that the next revolution will surely result in the peoples' paradise.
Nothing makes our system 'work'. It is a shitty expensive system and the ONLY reason people seem to think it works is because 20% of the population under 65 incurs zero bills in a particular year and 60% incur less than $1000 or $2000. They pay a ton for insurance but have no fucking clue what medical bills will show up if they ever need medical care.
The big reason people who have incurred medical bills had the reaction they did to the assassination is because they have the experience of knowing that insurance will cover you as long as you pay the premium and will then deny claims when you need coverage. With UNH being apparently the company most likely to deny claims.
There may not be many people who understand how to fix the system, but they know a scam and a broken system when they see one.
From a health care reimbursement perspective, the problem with Medicare is that is barely [if then] covers your expenses. And that is only if you are very careful and efficient in the operation of your clinic etc.
If it were not for private insurance reimbursement [four times Medicare on average] you would not have any health care services to speak of. I am not saying this does not have its problems, but it is what keeps the gears moving.
The private insurance average is not 4 times medicare, that's the published list price often called "Usual and Customary". That is what an insurance company will pay if they are not contracted with a particular provider, or what an uninsured care recipient will receive on their initial bill. However every provider I've ever dealt with will discount uninsured patient bills to a much lower average rate.
IMO, Medicare is a poor system from all sides. At core, Medicare was simply chosen as a government payor for an existing insurance based system. Except that before Medicare, there was no insurance for the elderly because the existing insurance system was employer-employee. Which also meant there were very few specialists because the under-65 just can't support that many specialists compared to the over-65.
Most other countries configured their public system from the ground up which also meant a public discussion re what we will pay for via taxes and what via private means. And in most cases, they also understood that a bulk buyer (a monopsonist - like socialized health can be) also has to deliver volume to providers as well as lower prices for taxpayers. That changes the nature of the provider-payor relationship. I'm sure most specialists much prefer the annual income they can earn here in the US - but in other countries, they don't need to run a paperwork/insurance business.
HSAs should work better than a mixed payer system.
HSA owners, employers, government or anyone can contribute to an individual's HSA. People decide how to spend funds from their HSA. HSA holders can buy catastrophic insurance with HSA funds. Doctors are paid directly in cash for most visits. Direct Primary Care will hopefully flourish, but the choice is the individual's on whether he wants a DPC physician or a non-DPC.
Can I settle for a free lunch, then?
I've heard that nothing is free is someone is paying for it.
That's why we need to make "The Rich" pay for it.
Bernie Sanders in 2016: "The millionaires and billionaires have gotten away with not paying their fair share."
Bernie Sanders in 2020 (after he became a millionaire himself, with three houses): "The billionaires have gotten away with not paying their fair share."
'"It is an old joke among health policy wonks that what the American people really want from health care reform is unlimited care, from the doctor of their choice, with no wait, free of charge," Michael Tanner, then of the Cato Institute, quipped in 2017.'
No, what Americans want is immortality, hot bods, and perfect health without any effort or restrictions on behavior. And they want others to make sure that happens. Any person, enterprise, or government agency that fails to deliver, or even suggests that American wants are delusional, is evil and will be attacked.
Go big or go home hungry.
Since the implementation of Obama Care, things changed and not necessarily for the better.
Where I was employed at the time, I lost a premium part of my health insurance, one that I gladly paid. Sorry, you don't get that anymore thanks to Obama care. The next best thing to happen was the closing of our little doctors office that served our village that had done so for decades. Shuttered, for sale no possibility of ever opening again.
Thank you Obama and congress for that. Now healthcare is doled out in "factories" like the local consortium called Family health Care Centers made up of "health care professionals" whose only real job is selling pills, and other expensive procedures. I loath them. I don't think I will continue to use their "services".
health insurance has become a scam as well.
BTW last weekend in my junk mail was a scam for United Health Care. Yup, only a day or two after the murder.
Their vision is medicine as a regulated utility.
The criticism I've been hearing of health insurance companies and their CEOs is that the health insurance companies take money from people, but then refuse to actually pay when the coverage is really needed.
Care to try a bit narrower brush there, or can we assume just outright propaganda?
This "criticism" is totally false. The vast majority of claims are paid off. When the "critics" say these things they leave out the part where the denied claims are for controversial or experimental or unproven treatments and tests; or where the treatment requested is not appropriate for the diagnosis. Desperate patients are willing to try long-shot treatments and there is no good reason for government to try to prevent that. But that doesn't mean that insurance companies should be required to pay for them! When insurance companies refuse to cover such things (as clearly specified in the insurance contracts) they are refusing to pass outrageous expenses on to the rest of their less desperate customers and I, for one, don't want to pay for someone else's witch doctor with higher premiums, thanks very much!
People should pay attention to this. UHC's medical loss ratio, the amount it pays to providers in relation to premiums taken in, is over 85% this year. The cost of doing business is about 10%, and the rest, as you mention -- about 4%, is profit. If it did not gate keep some of the demands for payment the premiums would necessarily be a lot higher.
I am a medical doctor and I disagree with that statement.
I have seen plenty of denials for obviously medically indicated tests/procedures.
The most recent one I saw was denial of a chest x-ray, and patient suspected of a lung cancer.
You could argue that a chest CT might be a better initial test, but that is not what the insurance company said.
So our medical doctor had to call and have a peer to peer conference to get the x ray authorized.
It happens but it's rare. I mean we can all agree that all doctors only have your interest in heart. They don't run any extra tests or procedures for a buck right?
I do agree that for a basically protection service, CEO are making 11 million a year is hard to swallow sometimes.
"UnitedHealth Group, primarily an insurer, claims over 147 million customers"
So if you divide $11 million by 147 million, it comes out to eight cents per premium. So you basically swallow elephants whole while straining at gnats. CEO's make convenient and not very sympathetic scapegoats, that's all there is to it. A typical profit margin for health insurance companies is four percent. Although healthcare insurance is bad for costs across the board, individuals tend to prefer it to cash-as-you-go for unforeseen illnesses and injuries, so it's here to stay. I personally can afford to pay for routine and minor acute illnesses so I prefer cash plus catastrophic insurance coverage, but my employer provides healthcare insurance as an employee benefit so I have it on that basis.
And Harry Truman (D) owns this mess.
Bingo. Get employers out of selecting or offering health insurance and eliminate the tax incentive for doing so. If insurance has a role, then make it be like car insurance. Still sucks. Still too complicated and paperwork-heavy with the ridiculous 67 page policy, 37 pages of which are exclusions, but way better than having the employer decide what your coverage is. This change would solve half of the problem, because changing this forces change to losts of the rest of the current system. By eliminating the cost of the health insurance benefit, in theory, the employer could pay each employee $15,000 more. They could use that to buy their own coverage or not, just as we do with car insurance.
I get there are problems with this, especially since 20% of the population consumes 80% of the health care resources. Somebody has to pay for care of the fatties and the old/sick. But getting employers out of the middle is essential to move anything else forward.
While you're at it, get corporations out of liability protected status and get the government out of chartering corporations. If a corporation causes a tort, the owners of the corporation should be liable for the damages.
"Owners" is broad group - mutual funds own shares of hundreds or thousands of companies. There's little reason for individual liability as long as the collective corporation pays in full for damage it causes. It can do that through a liability policy or its own assets. Not a problem 99.99% of the time. If a company is deliberately undercapitalized and causes losses in excess of insurance or its own assets, there already are ways to get at the owners. I'd definitely settle for just getting employers out of the health insurance equation.
> ... but way better than having the employer decide what your coverage is...
It's not just the employer deciding your coverage, though. The government has mandates (prenatal care, mental health coverage, addiction treatment coverage, etc.) which jack the base price of all insurance options up.
And I cannot opt out. My wife and I have reached the stage in life where, for reasons, we cannot have kids. Not even accidently. But we can't save money on insurance premiums by selecting a plan that does not cover pregnancy,
There is nothing new here. I've been posting to Reason for over two decades that cash or short-term finance payment plans for routine care and inexpensive catastrophic medical insurance for only the most rare, unexpected and expensive life-saving medical treatment is the only sensible "system" for healthcare. The only possible role for government in such a system might be as a safety net for the few people who cannot take care of themselves for one reason or another if private charity doesn't cover them. It used to be expected that doctors would provide a certain amount of free care for the indigent, but now that the vast majority of doctors have been collectivized under Medicare as employees of medical care organizations, that is no longer a possibility. In any sensible healthcare system, society would easily take care of people in need of charity medical care. Socialists are idiots and dreamers, but who lets them get away with their scam?
What are you, some kind of Nazi?
/s
BTW, shouldn't the pillars in the photo say "reloading"?
Government has fucked up the health insurance and health care system so badly that many people think they want to move to socialism health. The real answer is to get the government out of health care completely. Eliminate every single regulation and governing body related to health insurance and medicine now. America would have the best health care system almost overnight if that happened.
Government has fucked up the health insurance and health care system so badly that many people think they want to move to socialism health
Democrats: leaping the country forward one Cloward and Piven strategy at a time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy
I don’t think it would be that fast and I’m sure it wouldn’t be painless, but that’s no reason not to try this approach.
I made it to the second paragraph and said, "Oh, this is clearly not Liz."
I do have to say I was surprised a few years ago. Minor surgery . It was 2500, but the hospital said if I pay it all today it would only be 2000.
Some of it is insurance, some of it is people just not paying (be it overpriced or what). I know it's not any illegals using the hospitals and not paying. Reason says that's impossible.
It would be nice for one bill. That was the bill for the hospital. You still get a bill for the doctor too.
The structure of the system just can't be legal. I should be able to know the upfront price of a procedure and either pay it immediately or be billed for the known and agreed to amount. Insurance makes it even harder to know what you're going to owe before committing to hundreds or thousands of dollars in services.
Health care cost inflation is due to government meddling, increased systemic bureaucracy, and eliminating the ability for an informed consumer to fairly market goods and services.
If I walk in to get a cut stitched up then they should be able to tell me how much it's going to cost me. If it's too much then I'll grab some superglue and take care of shit myself. It is insane to get 3 different bills for it 3 months later for hundreds of dollars each. I would have declined the $83 advil if given the choice. It's fucking theft.
I don't usually do hypotheticals, but the emotional reaction to this murder and the ensuing widespread debate has got me thinking. Had the murder occurred earlier, say in October, would it have changed the result of the election? Would it have caused candidates to change their platforms? If not October, how about the summer? Say, for argument's sake, switch the unsuccessful attempt on Trump's life with a successful attempt on the CEO. As it was, Harris, of course, offered the public nothing on the improvement of health care/health insurance. Would the murder cause her to change her course? Or Trump his?
I'm not sure what the motives of the murderer were, but I wonder if he considered doing the deed before the election to influence public debate on the issue.
No one can have any sort of Utopia. Period.
That's not even worth mentioning.
What people can have is deep and meaningful reforms.
A system that, while not perfect, serves more people far better.
Dismissing unrealistic desires with black-and-white analysis?
It's neither insightful nor helpful.
Pot, meet kettle.
Some people wonder why junior doctors are going on strike in Korea, one of their objection being the government plans to increase enrollment at medical schools. Wait, isn't that a good thing?
They're on strike because they work 36 hours shifts for near min wage. They get paid way less than doctors in big city hospitals. Increasing future medical students is tantamount to the democrats calling for illegal immigration - cheap labor is the goal.
The libs in this country hear that "MRIs in Korea are only 50 bucks" and think single payer is like healthcare candy store. If the government can pay healthcare personnel next to nothing, you can enjoy that kind of privilege. Meanwhile you still have to worry about hospital bills and terminal patients are sent home to save hospital beds.
Korea is like the worst place to live in with the best internet. Most of the world is a banana republic. You have to pay a shit ton of money in taxes to get what's basically medicaid in America. I had to wait like 6 months to get a root canal. Medicaid for in America all would basically ensure that I see a doctor every 7 years. Do these lunatics realize how many illegals enter their country every year?
So much irrelevant crazy in here. The point is simple: in our late-stage, Gordon Gecko-on-stilts, apocalyptic capitalism, the cravenness of greed has exceeded all worst-case scenarios. The most visible sign of this is the denial of formerly routine claims by AI bots used by insurers to save yet more $ and drive profit. THAT is why the highly intelligent insurance victim acted, and THAT is what people are responding to. Not that anyone favors murder. Just that what else can warn them that the pitchforks are coming?
Maggie Mahar's book, Money-Driven Medicine, refuted all these arguments 20 years ago. The proposal by the author is just another, "if you can't afford healthcare, just suffer and/or die quietly." His claims to the contrary, nobody shops care for the best price. The idea is prima facie stupid.
The competition in the healthcare industry is a scramble for the shiniest penny. Which hospital will you choose - the one that offers you an X-Ray, or the one that offers an MRI? Naturally, you will go with the MRI that costs 5 times as much as the X-Ray, even though it provides no demonstrable improvement in treatment. Whereas the cost of the X-Ray equipment can be measured in the thousands, the cost of the MRI equipment will be over a million dollars. Naturally, the hospital with the MRI is going to charge you that much more to pay for it.
Forcing sick or injured people to poll the local medical industry in search of the best price is a ridiculous idea. But, "competition" is a useful buzzword that makes you all go bobbly-head without any thought of what it entails out in the real world. Let me repeat: the healthcare industry does not compete on price, it competes on technology and treatment programs. "I found the cheapest place to get my wife treatment for her cancer," should be ashes in your mouths. When my wife was hospitalized, I wanted the absolutely best care for her, and cost be damned. Apparently, there aren't many other people here with that idea.
I practiced Bad Faith Insurance litigation for well over 35 years. I always wondered why there were not a lot of murders of insurance executives. In my opinion, Sandra Day O'Connor's opinion in Pilot Life Ins vs Dedeaux (1987) was mass murder and she maimed and killed more Americans with that opinion than were killed in all of America's war.
Violence is not reform and Luigi and on-line supporters are not so naive as to think it is, but they know that millions of Americans every day are needlessly suffering and dying and not one will do a damn things about it! It would be more efficacious to knock off 1,000 the corrupt judges all at once like Israel had Hezbollah's pagers explode, but I do not advocate that.
Who are the real villains: the insurance execs, the politicos who write the pro-insurance company laws, or politicos who propose absurd solutions like Single Payor Plans or Medicare for All, or the judges who allow the insurance companies to violate what few laws there are? Or may be it is the voters!
Voters are like blindfolded men searching in a dark closet for a black hat, but refuse to turn on a light and take off their blindfolds.
We've been members of a Christian healthcare sharing ministry and it puts us front-and-center in making consumer decisions about which medical treatments are really necessary and at what price we will agree to do them. The over-reliance on third party payers is absolutely the reason why medical costs have skyrocketed. Any time you add consumer discipline to the process, prices are far more reasonable.
The other thing: stop acting like society owes us a pain-free, immortal existence! We are all going to die, and most of us will go through an uncomfortable illness beforehand. That is how life goes! We can't order perfect health served up like it's GrubHub. Once we accept our mortality, and take personal responsibility for our health (getting government and insurance companies the hell out of the process), costs will come down.
And maybe, just maybe, in the process we will value life more.
One solution to the high prices is to let the people who don't like it to DIY. We need a law to prevent sites like YouTube from taking down videos that show people how to provide their own M.A.I.D. services, so they can learn how to provide their own medical care.
Look what has happened with pet insurance. 30 years ago, no one insured their cats and dogs. As people started getting pet insurance, the cost of veterinary care skyrocketed to the point where now you *have* to have insurance.
I am surprised you don't, or can't, see why the right and the left both see this the same way. It is not even about politics. It is about economics. No working class American is siding with the CEO or corporations. Even people in other countries understand what you fail to see. Neither the government nor the corporations are the answer. BOTH are the problem.
This is, in fact, the seed of discontent being planted for the new Labor movement to grow from.
For such a ?hard? problem.
The answer was quite simple before 1900s.
It was called a FREE-MARKET.
The worst part of Socialist/Marxist imbeciles is they think MORE failure = a success. They'll 'Gun' down the whole planet before admitting their BS is a complete and utter failure. And they do it over and over and over and over again throughout human history.
NEVER LEARNING A GD THING.
I'm sure there's a simple, obvious solution to the problems every country in the world faces in managing health care. Unfortunately, I don't know what it is, and anyway, simple obvious solutions are invariably wrong and always make the problem worse. I think oh bummer care was a simple, obvious solution.
Also unfortunately, too many people who have given the problems little or no thought, are willing to proffer their solutions, forcefully and without a shred of doubt.
Still, it's nice to see one of the predators of the healthcare industry slaughtered in the streets. I'm a declared moral degenerate, but I'll defend my record against the parasites and predators of the health finance industry any day.
I don't believe in celebrating or advocating the murder of anyone, and that includes telling people to kill themselves. I don't believe in a "bad person" exception to the murder laws (even if we accept the murderer's word that the victim was a bad person).
Does that make me a minority here?
Minor quibble with the concept of 3rd party payors as the problem. The problem is the disconnect between buyer and seller interrupting the price signals.
All insurance involves 3rd party payors and works well. You get in an accident, you get repair estimates, submit to the insurance company to approve and pay. Everyone is happy. I don't know about other states, but in California, a written estimate is required.
The medical industry gives a weak solution of providing price lists, as opposed to estimates. The system is designed to obfuscate and confuse they buyer/patient. Does a layman really know how to put together an estimate for a surgical procedure. In the dental space, where most procedures are either not covered or have a low max (usually $1,500 pa), estimates are common. The medical industry should do the same and provide written estimates.
As to insurance making health care more affordable, who ever said that was a goal, assuming one can even define "affordable"? I guess I need to ask the same people who decide what a "fair share" of taxes might be. Competition is what moderates prices. Interruption of price signals is anti-competitive and results in higher prices. The goal of insurance is to avoid shock losses and spread risk among a large population. Again, just like every other type of insurance. Cradle to grave coverage for every health desire is not insurance. It's insanity.
People do not realize that the corrupt courts have allowed the health care insurance industry to rape the American people. Unless one knows about Pilot Life Co vs Dedeaux, 481 U. S. 41 (1987), one cannot understand the horrible alliance between the health insurance companies and the courts.
One pre-Dedeaux true life example is Takeda/Whitten vs Northwestern Insurance which was systematically underpaying health insurance claims. Their polices required Northwestern to pay 80% of the Usual, Reasonable and Customary costs for the treatment area, e.g. usually Zip codes. Instead, Northwestern was paying about 50% of an outdated Workers' Comp Schedule. (Worker Comp schedules never apply to private health insurance because Worker Comp doctors accept much less for their services because they are guaranteed a huge steady supply of patients and under treatment was a the general rule.)
The case took years thanks to corrupt Judge William P Gray, Central Dist Ct California) since Northwestern's defense firm had hired his mistress as an atty. This was back in the early 1980's. Judge Gray was overturned since the appeals court knew the behind the scenes true story. Anyways, finally years later, Federal Judge Davies certified our class action complaint which was similar to drawing the card to Advance to Go and Collect $200 in MONOPOLY.
About two weeks later, Judge Davies called us into his office and said that since was newly appointed to the bench, he did not know that the presiding judge Manny Real had a deal with the insurance industry to never allow a class action lawsuit against an insurance company to be certified. Thus, he had to dismiss our lawsuit. That meant that Northwestern could continue to underpay claims costing the insureds hundreds of millions of dollars.
Because so many health insurance companies were cheating millions of insureds with so many scams, there was a proliferation of lawsuits. In order to stop these lawsuits, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor authored the Dedeaux Case, granting all insurance plans under ERISA de facto immunity from lawsuits for cheating insured people. The result was the needless deaths and suffering of tens of millions of Americans and the gigantic profits which men like Thompson UnitedCare's CEO was and still are making.
Luigi Mangione was correct that he did not know the entire vast story of insurance-judicial corruption, otherwise, I suspect he would have targeted judges and not an insurance executive.
ObamaCare did end some of the most hideous practices like companies excluding pre-existing conditions from any coverage. The bad parts of health care insurance, which ObamaCare could not change, are still there due corruption congressmen, corrupt court judges and lastly corrupt insurance execs.
Imagine if groceries were provided by a government food plan...
The grocer would get X dollars per person with a government food card. They would find that the first few people into the store would take all the filet mignon, the nice wine, the best fruit and vegetables, leaving no "nice" food for everyone else.
SO they would just grind up the whole cow and offer it as "beef". Take it or leave it.
The fruit would likewise be chopped into fruit salad. Lots of rinds I there. Take it or leave it.
Wine would be removed from the list of free items and we would find that it probably cost more than it did when the store was trying to manage their profit. Without having a profit calculation to see how efficient they are, they just double the price of every bottle and treat it as a luxury item.
Prices are needed by both the retailer and the customer to serve as a measure of the cost of various goods. When government messes with prices, especially when it has pushed the third party insurance system. There are NO prices, everyone just shows up and expects unlimited service. It seem obvious that this would not work for food. It should seem obvious that this system would also fail to provide other limited resources to everyone at no cost.
“… Canada's single-payer system famously relies heavily on long wait times to ration care.” NO NO NO!
The Marxists CLEARLY tell me this is a Republican lie - so it cannot be true! /sarc