Assad Gone at Last
Plus: AOC ascendant, China preps for tariffs, Haitian deportation, and more...

Looters in the palace: Rebels toppled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime over the weekend. The former dictator has received asylum in Moscow.
In the past, Russia "had intervened in Syria's 13-year civil war in an effort to keep [Assad] in power," per the BBC. This time, neither Russia nor Iran really came to Assad's aid, aside from that offer of refuge. Another Assad ally, the Lebanese terrorist group Hezbollah, was also distracted by its own recent conflicts.
The Islamist militant group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) and a few other rebel factions are responsible for the Assad ouster. Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani, also known as Ahmed al-Sharaa, is widely seen as the leader of the main rebel group, HTS, which has gone through several rebrands after being affiliated with Al Qaeda.
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The fall of Assad happened over the course of the last few weeks.
"An armed rebel alliance charged across Syria over 11 days," reports CNN, "sweeping through major cities and reigniting a conflict that had been largely static since a 2020 ceasefire agreement….Syrian and Russian jets had targeted rebels in Aleppo and Idlib but opposition forces seized a second major city of Hama and quickly advanced on Homs—the gateway to the capital Damascus." After Homs fell, the rebels came into Damascus and declared Assad desposed. Prisoners were freed across the country, and the presidential palace was ransacked. Border checkpoints were emptied of guards.
Assad was a brutal tyrant, but it is not clear that HTS, and the factions they're uniting, will be an improvement. The country has been plunged into greater chaos, and antagonists in the region are behaving opportunistically, as one might expect.
"Israeli ground forces advanced beyond the demilitarized zone on the Israel-Syria border over the weekend, marking Israel's first overt entry into Syrian territory since the early 1970s, officials said," reports The New York Times. Israeli authorities claim the incursion is temporary, "hoping to head off any threat that could emerge in the fallout of president Bashar al-Assad's overthrow," per Reuters, and that airstrikes in the area are aimed at stamping out remaining stores of weapons.
The Turkish military "fired on U.S.-backed Kurdish forces in northern Syria over the weekend," reports The New York Times. It adds that this "illustrates how the interests of Turkey and the United States diverge over support for the Kurds, who have been instrumental partners for the U.S. in fighting Islamic State."
Meanwhile in domestic politics: Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) announced Friday that she wants to be the top Democrat on the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, a vacant position that would customarily be filled by someone more senior—in this case, 74-year-old Rep. Gerald E. Connolly, an eight-term incumbent from Virginia. If she gets the job, Ocasio-Cortez would become the youngest Democrat to lead a House committee; the mere act of seeking the job signals that she's serious about rising, both within the House of Representatives and within her own party.
A third Democrat—California's Ro Khanna—said he had been mulling a run but that he would move aside to allow Ocasio-Cortez to lead.
"The Oversight Committee position became available after [Maryland Rep. Jamie] Raskin, 61, successfully challenged Representative Jerrold Nadler, 77, of New York for the top Democratic slot on the Judiciary Committee," reports The New York Times.
Scenes from New York: "A judge granted a motion from Manhattan prosecutors to dismiss the more serious charge of second-degree manslaughter against Daniel Penny on Friday in his trial over the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a New York City subway last year," reports CNN. "The ruling clears the way for the jury to consider a remaining lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide. It came after a Manhattan jury said they were deadlocked twice on the manslaughter charge and Penny's defense attorneys renewed their motion for a mistrial."
It remains to be seen whether the jury can come to a consensus. More background on Penny and Neely here.
QUICK HITS
- Did bitcoin win the election? Zach Weissmueller and I asked Nic Carter, a great and worthwhile follow if you're interested in this cluster of topics:
Genuinely clownish article by @amacker at WaPo, betrays total lack of expertise on the topic. Embarrassing "let's ask the critics and call them experts" kind of piece. https://t.co/cC1U5ssXFK
— nicmas ???? cheerter (@nic__carter) December 8, 2024
- We are VERY close to our Just Asking Questions subscriber goal for December. If you enjoy this podcast—which Weissmueller and I pour our hearts into—would you mind subscribing to its new channel on YouTube, and maybe sending an episode link along to a friend who might enjoy it? We have Lee Fang doing a Democratic Party autopsy; Vinay Prasad breaking down the good and bad of letting RFK Jr. lead our health bureaucracy; Michael Brendan Dougherty discussing the history of immigration, how modern immigration can be improved, and whether assimilation matters. We also went on Dave Smith's show Part of the Problem, which you can see here:
- Wow, that was a lot of self-promotion, I feel queasy, but can you, dear reader, stomach just a little more? We are nearing the end of Reason's Webathon—that time of year when we harass you all for a little dough to help support our journalism. If you like JAQ or Reason Roundup, please mention this in the comment of your donation.
- "China's top leaders plan to loosen monetary policy and expand fiscal spending in 2025, as Beijing braces for a trade war when Donald Trump takes office," reports Bloomberg. "Top officials on Monday also made direct pledges to 'stabilize property and stock markets' and for the first time promised 'extraordinary' counter-cyclical policy adjustment—Communist Party speak for more uncommon tools to boost the economy. Boosting consumption was given greater emphasis, something foreign officials including US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen have stressed is crucial."
- Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.
- "A Missouri lawmaker wants to create a program which would give residents $1,000 payouts for reporting illegal immigrants in their communities to authorities," reports Newsweek. Forgive me, but I don't think giving normal people incentives to become bounty-hunting vigilantes will be a net positive for liberty.
- Will they ever learn?
"Democrats began their meeting on Thursday with a "land acknowledgement," a symbolic gesture that grants that the land a person is standing on previously belonged to Native Americans…" https://t.co/RsMgAorS16
— Anthony LaMesa (@ajlamesa) December 8, 2024
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Rebels toppled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime over the weekend.
TULSI DIDN'T GET IN IN TIME TO STOP IT!
RebelsAl Qaeda islamists toppled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's regime over the weekend.This is not a good thing.
I have been led to believe religious tolerance wins the day with this new guy.
Well he's former ISIS and Al-Qaida, and they're well known for their tolerance of religious pluralism. Just ask the Syriac Orthodox and the Yazidi.
I'm sure nothing will go wrong.
exactly. I prefer optimism as well.
one US-backed coalition defeated a separate US-backed coalition.
Taxpayer dollars at work.
Jus Soli citizens ship would never be abused.
"Under an Obama-era policy, Chinese nationals can visit the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands without a visa," Tiffany wrote on the social media platform, X. "Chinese women visit the islands to deliver their babies who automatically become U.S. citizens."
According to reports, there is a policy that was implemented under the Obama administration that allowed Chinese nationals to visit the northern Mariana Islands without a Visa.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/wisconsin-rep-slams-china-using-mariana-islands-get-us-birthright-citizenship
Another Turkey Shoot is in order?
Clearly a "it's not happening and it's a good thing" moment.
China producing all their future spies. I guarantee you the CCP is forcing the women to go there and give birth there.
What? No!
I’m sure they’re just trying to flee the tyranny of the CCP. There couldn’t possibly be any nefarious scheme going on.
The Islamist militant group Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) and a few other rebel factions are responsible for the Assad ouster.
Sounds like blue skies ahead for Syria.
Better than a militant group of Homeowners Association (HOA) extremists I guess.
HOA shenanigans would be more exciting with more AKs.
A Tale of Too Syrias.
It was the worst of times, it was the worster of times.
Syriasly?
Will someone please just tell me what the heck is a leppo?
Noice
Blue skies filled with chemical gas by chance?
You mean a blue glow?
CNN headline:
Watching with trepidation and glee, Netanyahu orders military to seize Syria buffer zone
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) announced Friday that wants to be the top Democrat on the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability...
Let's take a look at that resume first...
Female, PoC, and didn't suck Willie brown's dick. Sold.
She might be qualified for House bartender.
you know she whined if anyone ordered more than a margarita.
With mix. Not fresh.
course not.
Where did she work again, prior to being in the House? TGI Friday’s?
Remembertkhe quip about AOC : The only waitress that brings nothing to the table.
IF you listen to her you find the following "fact" unbelievable except on the assumption that Boston University is not a good school
AOC cum laude from Boston University in 2011 with a bachelor's degree in international relations and economics.
She says utterly stupid things about both , that not much experience would show to be wrong
Everybody's favorite big booty Latina.
By resume do you mean jiggly dance Tik Toks?
Meritocracy = white supremacy
All words mean whatever is necessary to be good for Leftists and bad for others with no definition ever being confined to previous uses.
Humpty Dumpty'sJeffy's 1st law.Why the alternative is 74 years old. Even in the Catholic Church the dude would be year short of mandatory retirement. Beside the job might teach AOC a few things about governing. Easy to throw out verbal crap when your low down on the totem pole. The top cat has to be a little bit wiser.
Any advance in gov't is just another bully pulpit for AOC. She's just a POC female version of Bernie. And just as stupid.
Moderation is over-rated
Dietrich von Hildebrand criticized Aristotle's "mesotes theory of virtue" for reducing the distinction between virtue and vice to a spectrum of extremes and means.
A third Democrat—California's Ro Khanna—said he had been mulling a run but that he would move aside to allow Ocasio-Cortez to lead.
She does have more Insta followers, after all.
The Democrats haven’t learned their lesson from 2024 yet. I see they want to double down on dumb.
IDK, Ro Khanna's "Ladies first..." could be reluctant and strategic.
Her turn?
"Why get in the way of letting someone fall on their face?" - Dillinger
EPA staffer caught on camera admitting the deep state is issuing grants left and right to dem friendly NGOs, billions of dollars.
Efron reportedly told Project Veritas that the EPA is rapidly distributing billions of dollars in grants to nonprofits as an “insurance policy” against Trump winning the election. He described the situation as “throwing gold bars off the Titanic,” referring to the urgency with which the agency allocates funds.
“Now it’s how to get the money out as fast as possible before they come in … it’s like we’re on the Titanic and we’re throwing gold bars off the edge.”
The move is every bit as cynical and self-serving as it is insidious.
Efron even admits that the EPA is scrambling to push money out the door for projects originally designed for a Kamala Harris presidency.
So committed are these staffers, Efron confesses, that they plan to work right up until the final moments on inauguration day, rushing to ensure that every possible tax-payer dollar is disbursed before a Republican administration can turn off the spigot.
…Efron openly admits how the EPA uses nonprofits as a political buffer against Republican administrations—and reveals how he could later reap personal rewards with a cushy job at one of the nonprofits he helped fund during his tenure.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2024/12/epa-special-advisor-admits-to-giving-out-grants-to-trump-proof-bidens-green-new-deal/
Many of the staffers expect to join these groups post Jan 20.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/revolving-door-may-allow-biden-admin-top-officials-continued-influence-over
Isn't that essentially embezzling money from the American people?
It is embezzlement. And nothing else will happen.
I would assume so. But if we look into it it is vengeful retribution. So best not ask any questions.
I believe that is the actual definition of an insurection
No, that's government contracting 101, with a slight twist, being they are spending it all at the beginning of the year instead of Q3. Spend it or lose. And yes there is a conflict of interest, contracting and then jumping ship to the company but again gov contracting 101.
And not defending the practice, it's one of the things I'm hoping DOGE tackles. Though I am not to certain I like some of the non-compete policies floating around for gov contracting leaving to work in the private industry.
So if the EPA spends all their budget in Q1, the agency has to shut down for the rest of the year, right?
It is about intent. They intend to enrich themselves.
NGO's are a fascist instrument, so there's that.
'Efron openly admits how the EPA uses nonprofits as a political buffer against Republican administrations—and reveals how he could later reap personal rewards with a cushy job at one of the nonprofits he helped fund during his tenure.'
So, not exactly non-profit for everyone, eh?
Harvard is non-profit.
The value of Harvard's endowment grew to $53.2 billion after the Harvard Management Company boasted a 9.6 percent return on its investments in fiscal year 2024
Sounds like a great first stop for Elon and Ramy to start cleaning house.
A judge granted a motion from Manhattan prosecutors to dismiss the more serious charge of second-degree manslaughter against Daniel Penny...
THE TRUMP EFFECT.
Of course in reality it's a craven tactic to get past an obstacle they created by overcharging in the already unwarranted prosecution.
The lawyer giveth and the lawyer taketh away.
Normally this would be a mistrial. But more novel legal maneuvers are needed to ensure just us is served.
Luckily this time it didn't work, as the jury just acquitted. But the fact that this wasn't shut down by the judge, who instead allowed the jury to consider only the lesser charge, means this practice of intentionally overcharging to make it easier to convict on the lesser charge will continue.
Fuck, the judge did everything he could to get the jury to convict. If he had been convicted, the judges actions on Friday would have been more than adequate grounds for appeal.
Bogus charges against Trump, The Right, and Dan Penny, are attacks against ME. Today it’s Dan Penny, yesterday it was skipping Trump homes in NC, before that it was Anti-lockdown gym owners, and on, and on, and on…
I fully support using the same weapons against my enemies they use against me.
Jail. Persecution. Assassination. Fire bombings.
Shooting up their campaign headquarters. Propaganda. Ban them from social media. Lawfare.
The Left ALREADY DOES ALL THIS AND MORE!!!!!
Obama pulls a jeffsarc. Imagines what the right may do even as him and his team do what he complains of.
There are going to be times, potentially, when one side tries to stack the deck and lock in a [long pause] permanent grip on power—either by actively suppressing votes, or politicizing the armed forces, or using the judiciary and the criminal justice system to go after opponents.
In those circumstances, pluralism does not call for us to just stand back and say, ‘Well, I’m not sure that’s okay.’
In those circumstances, a line has been crossed, and we have to stand firm.
https://redstate.com/mike_miller/2024/12/06/o-the-irony-obama-warns-one-side-is-going-to-rig-elections-and-weaponize-the-justice-system-n2182875
Sounds insurrectiony to me.
Nevermind pre-emptive pardons. The uberlibs claim pre-emptive victimhood.
And default mandate to rule.
He's pretty good at drawing lines. But not so good at connecting dots.
I wonder if he is aware of Crossfire: Hurricane.
Like having the IRS, target your political rivals?
Destroying democracy, again, in order to save it. Or save the iron grip of the righteous. Same thing, right?
Libs of TikTok
@libsoftiktok
.
@msad_11
school board tried ramming through a vote to create a “confidential” health clinic at school where kids can receive vaccines, lab work, and more. The school board snuck in a vote right before Thanksgiving, hoping nobody would realize.
.
@CourageHabit
spread the word so parents showed up and the meeting got heated. Then in middle of the meeting, the superintendent resigned. They were forced to push off the vote.
They will most likely try sneaking it back in.
https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1865790587750040039
They are desperately trying to keep things in the "its not happening" phase, just like CRT
Is that the same as a silent coup?
But remember, Brian Thompson is the real bad guy deserving three in the back here.
And this sentiment is something the tankie globohomo commies arent taking into account when they call for normalization of what happened to that CEO.
When the line is "you, in my opinion, did really bad shit, so I get to exact street justice in the name of God/Allah/Good/etc" its a very slippery slope and pretty much anyone can end up in that scope.
But then again, not understanding slippery slopes and unintended consequences is a requirement for being a tankie left commie retard, so thats a conundrum.
That's a good point.
Theres no logical stopping point.
I read someone else make this compairosn.
If it was okay to murder him, that what about drunk drivers who cause a crash that kills someone else?
https://www.threads.net/@rnmomof11/post/DDA_ds1y5yH
Why don't their victims' families get to murder THEM?
And why don't Thompson's family and friends, and their UHC allies, get to bomb a few Neo-socialist neighborhood meetings?
A big factor in this whole "is it ok if this person was murdered in the street?" thought experiment seems to be "do they have more money than me? If so, I'm glad they were shot in the street like an animal."
Does that include drunk drivers?
Or are they some sort of oppressed class?
The penalty for drunk driving resulting in a crash and somebody dying is punished way more harshly than a DUI with no crash. But that penalty is set by law by each state.
Its also typically less than the penalty for intentional murder because the decision to drink and drive, while intentional (or reckless or negligent) doesn't mean they intended to kill. And our laws, for better or worse, differentiate accidental killing with intentional/premeditated killing. Hence, the offense of reckless homicide vs first degree murder.
Thank you high school MADD speaker.
Are you sure you're an attorney?
Probably not, but he stayed near a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Which aregues for treating initial offenses harder .
It is the reasonging behind the "Broken Windows" theory in Criminology, a principle most parents alreayd know:)
"is it ok if this person was murdered in the street?"
"seems to be "do they have more money than me? If so, I'm glad"
This is precisely why the marxist oppressor/oppressed framework is toxic, and is absolutely designed to cause society to destroy itself, so it can rebuild it into something else.
Rebuild it with THEM in power.
Not once ever never, has ‘power to the people’ resulted in any power to any people except oppressive rulers.
Then the people have to actually fight back.
Alllllllways.
I'd remind the leftie reporters that cheered it --- the media is not more popular.
This shit is why I keep saying that the "I'm not corrupt enough to be in government" pretense of the Reagan era needs to get out to sleep. Wherever the left inhabits inevitably becomes politicized to push left wing policies.
Resistance is these people's kryptonite, which is why you have to be a civic minded person and stop using the "I just want to BBQ" excuse as a reason to not push back. They RELY on your apathy to grow their power.
UK rushes forward with the slippery slope of euthanasia.
“Sudden And Unexpected”
@toobaffled
The UK government has announced plans to offer cash incentives to the relatives of elderly citizens who opt to be euthanized.
According to a disturbing report in the Telegraph, “terminally ill pensioners could end their lives earlier to spare loved ones six-figure tax bills under assisted dying legislation, experts have warned.” Under the current rules, pensions “are passed on free of income tax if the person dies before 75 years old.”
https://thepeoplesvoice.tv/uk-govt-to-offer-cash-bonuses-to-families-who-euthanize-their-elderly-relatives/
Hey man, there are queues as far as the eye can see, and lots of costs associated with giving everyone (and all the migrants) health care...
Gotta cut costs somehow!
They could require by law that all medications contain pork.
Making people die on waiting lists is cost free.
Not if they're on the dole.
As if the incentive to die weren't macabre enough, even the cash incentive is really actually a "We won't steal their pension from them and you because they're still alive." incentive.
This is really kind of mindblowing when you think about it in the context (in this country) of "You can't cut Social Security, that would be stealing/theft!"
Yes, it would be stealing. Stealing the government's ability to offer people their own cash as an incentive to die.
Fun, dark question: The unrealized capital gains of a euthanization couldn't be taxed, right? RIGHT?!?
Hey mom - your birthday is tomorrow - we can't miss your appointment.
"But I don't want to go on the cart!"
“Oh, don’t be such a baby.”
Hurling Day!
Id imagine there would be a benefit-tier list as well.
"If we off mom at 65, we would get like 10k more than if we waited until 70!"
I wonder what will stop the Jeffsarcs of the world from bringing in random old people for extra cash?
They wouldn’t be much different than those bringing in cobras for the bounty in 19th century India.
Or rat catchers in Medieval and early modern era France, some of which actually bred rats for the bounty.
How close are we to Soylent Green? We must be close.
I mean once we are paying to off people, it would be wasteful and an affront to Gaia to waste that good carbon and not put it to some use...
Can vegans eat other vegans?
I would think that the testicles removed during trans surgery would be ethical meat.
Rocky horror oysters.
KJP takes a play from sarc.
Townhall.com
@townhallcom
KJP: We didn’t lie or mislead about Hunter’s pardon. The circumstances changed!
https://x.com/townhallcom/status/1865119578717560914
Those circumstances being, the election was over
We refused to pardon ourselves reluctantly and strategically when we didn't believe there would be any negative consequences for our criminal actions.
The line of "I promise not to pardon Hunter, so long as the DOJ plays nice and also, this is limited up to and including the election only, not after" wouldnt have has the oomph of "nobody, including my son, is above the law"
Did I say oomph? I meant blatantly misleading lying
Joe Biden is rotten to the core.
The election was over AND Joe decided to fuck the DNC as much as possible before Jan 20.
Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.
2016 Cattle-car investments finally paying dividends.
re: Land acknowledgements
Reminder, retard progs: The largest group support for Trump, more than whites, was Native Americans. Wasnt even close.
So keep pushing the white-saviorism progressive retardation. Please. Land acknowledgements and Latinx for all! Please keep this up so we can keep President Vance in 28
Draft of a land acknowledgement:
"We hereby acknowledge that we took this land by force of arms from a group that had taken this land from a different group by force of arms that had taken this land from a different group by force of arms . . . .
Shut up and be glad we didn't just kill all of you.
Ellipsis foul: ... to advance our policies of giving it to the immigrants, whom, like the current natives, we totally aren't ripping off for votes.
They make a Monty Python Political Party look intelligent and legit by virtue of (lack of) self-awareness.
Shut up and be glad we didn't just kill all of you.
Yeah, we let 5-10% of them live as long as they stayed on remote and barren land. It was a generous gift, really.
They got a temporary monopoly on most state casinos too.
"It was a generous gift, really."
Should probably have just offered them the same deal they offered to whatever tribe they conquered to get the land
Don't say "slavery".
I think the Europeans honored the standard deal of conquest: get out or die.
And in that vein, they should be happy they enjoyed a significantly greater benefit than 99.999999% of the people in the history of the human race.
And in that vein, they should be happy they enjoyed a significantly greater benefit than 99.999999% of the people in the history of the human race.
How do you figure? Most conquests are incomplete and result in a largely mixed populations. DNA research reveals few populations (none that I know of) that were so thoroughly destroyed and displaced (in US territory at least).
Check out the flathead reservation, it's not all barren....
It's worth keeping in mind that the entire continent had been MASSIVELY depopulated by the time of Jamestown, the first permanent English settlement. That's part of why they were able to just set up colonies, there was a ton of empty/unused land. It's not like the Native Americans had never had agriculture, it's just that the diseases spread by Spanish explorers had ravaged the continent for a century or more. Early Spanish explorers who visited Florida and Georgia made contact with tribes that no longer existed by the time later expeditions arrived.
And the Powhatans (Pocahontas' tribe) still exists within Virginia, which was there from the first Jamestown settlement. Not to say there were never conflicts, and even enslavement of the Powhatans, but there was also a ton of intermarriage so there's a ton of Powhatan/Algonquin DNA in families who have lived in Virginia/Maryland/Delaware for a while.
When it comes down to it, I don't even know how much there is to feel ashamed of even if I imagined I was a second-generation settler. There was violence, but we're talking about a few hundred killed here and there. The fact is that the ~500,000 who lived there before 1600 became around 15,000 by 1650, and it was impossible for the 2,500ish English settlers to have intentionally killed that many even if it had been their goal.
Yeah, good point. The natives were mostly wiped out by disease and this was going to happen no matter what.
Also, I'll add I think this is why European colonization of N. America was so complete and very different from Africa/India. There Europeans were on the losing side of the biological warfare.
Yep. The only parts of Africa amenable to European settlement were the highlands in the east (Kenya, Tanzania), and the south (Zimbabwe, South Africa). In the case of South Africa, the Dutch got there before a majority of the Bantu tribes. India, on the other hand, has never really been hospitable to European settlement.
"The only parts of Africa amenable to European settlement were the highlands in the east (Kenya, Tanzania), and the south (Zimbabwe, South Africa). "
The Ptolemies (Macedonians) in Egypt and the French in Algeria. Interesting to note that the southern United States weren't conducive to European settlement until millions of Africans were imported to do the heavy work.
Sub Saharan Africa. The northern coast has always been far more hospitable to European settlement. And yes, it is notable how hostile the southern US was until a) the importation of Africans who were more suited to the environment, b) the elimination of malaria in the region, and c) the invention of air conditioning.
That said, only a small trickle of Africans went to the South. The vast majority went to Brazil and the Caribbean.
"That said, only a small trickle of Africans went to the South. "
I suppose they found Brazil and the Caribbean more to their liking.
The Brazilians and islands had more of an appetite for slaves. As did the Arab world (which had a larger and far longer sub Saharan slave trade). Except that the Arabs tended to castrate their male slaves whereas the West did not.
"Except that the Arabs tended to castrate their male slaves whereas the West did not."
The West were more into serfdom than slavery. Granted, prisoners of war were delivered into slavery, but it was a marginal thing until the colonization boom took hold around the time of the Renaissance. The slaves of the Arab world were also more marginal economically, and not vital to production as was the case in the Americas,
The Spanish and Portuguese brought in African Slaves probably because they died of tropical diseases less than Europeans and Amerindians (Yellow Fever and Malaria were likely introduced fairly early in the period post Columbus, unintentionally possibly even by one of Columbus's voyages).
It's not mentioned much, but the three big killers of the Amerindians were likely smallpox, Malaria and yellow fever, which also were also had higher mortality for Europeans. Europeans just had a slightly higher survival rate than the Natives. Also, most first generation European colonists would have been immune to smallpox, likely having it and surviving it as children (the ones who didn't survive obviously didn't get to immigrate to Americas). It did mean, however, that subsequent generations of Europeans, the descendants of the original colonists, were less likely to have been exposed to smallpox, and whenever a large number of Europeans showed up (especially in more rural areas) like during time of war, there were predictable smallpox outbreaks among the colonial inhabitants of the the Americas. Which usually resulted in outbreaks among the Amerindian tribes.
It does appear that European (and Asians) do have a slightly more robust immune system than Amerindians, likely the result of that massive natural selection event known as the Black Death. Africans (sub-Saharan and further south) have different mutations in their genetics that appear to help them deal slightly better with Yellow Fever and the most virulent and mortally forms of Malaria (the forms of Malaria in most of Northern Europe is less virulent and less mortal).
But even among Africans Malaria and Yellow Fever had something like 60% mortality in the Southeast US (based upon birth and death records of the time) during the period from the first importation of African slaves into the British colonies to the end of slavery importing around the start of the 19th century. European indentured servants had a mortality rate of 80-90% and Amerindians had 95-99% mortality rates per the records of the time. African slavery probably became a practice in the Americas because Amerindians and Europeans died too quickly, while Africans survived a little bit better.*
* This was probably never a conscious decision on anyone's part but just a function of the need for workers (especially in the two big cash crops, which are labor intensive, tobacco and sugar) that would survive at least one growing season. **
** Also, it should be noted that African slavery had been a practice in Spanish and Portuguese America for about a century before it became a practice in British or French America. The Spanish probably brought the first Africans to America because of the high mortality of other workers. Not because they were expected to survive but because they needed labor and African slaves were relatively cheap to purchase.
The vast majority of Amerindian deaths were the result of unintentional introduction of germs. By several historians research, Amerindians probably (at least in the US) killed more Europeans intentionally than Europeans killed Amerindians intentionally. And for the most part, the US and Canada (and their predecessors the British) did try and make treaties to live in peace with the Amerindians (neither side had a very good record of sticking to the treaties).
Yeah, just keep rubbing their nose it the land we stole from them. Good plan.
"And whoever claims to have gotten here first has to atone for raping the holy unspoiled environment."
*Gretta voice*
“How DARE you…!”
Where are land acknowledgements made, apart from American history classes and American history museums?
The University of Washington.
Colleges, which is where this shit started. This is why academia is going to have to be brought to heel.
My local college seems to be mostly over it.
I believe you have to make one to purchase a coffee in any given store in Canada
Usually made by the other type of Indian.
"Dots, not feathers"
Wasn't at least a substantial amount of land in North America acquired in legal fashion?
If "stolen" means "they accepted a payment far below what we think they should have paid for it," then a whole bunch of people in this country are getting their labor "stolen" from them. IE, slavery.
The US did acquire a great deal of land from the natives legally...in a system where legal is what the strongest say it is, dead people don't complain and people that do "complain" become the former.
Dems can shove their land acknowledgement up their asses, but native Americans have a legitimate gripe, as do countless other groups farther back in time. My Irish and Polish genes hate my English and German genes. My Neanderthal genes hate my homo sapien genes. Maybe my great grand children's black, native American and latino genes can hate their white genes too. It's all history.
"but native Americans have a legitimate gripe, as do countless other groups farther back in time. "
And in the end, if you go back far enough everyone can play victim olympics.
And everyone who can play victim olympics, also probably has ancestors (maybe the same ones) whose people also oppressed or victimized someone else.
Its just a pointless exercise in futility. Though it is useful for those elites who like to ensure we spend our time fully focused on fighting with each other while they pilfer the treasury in quiet peace
I think you and Brix both are nebulously criticizing the same fatal flaw of post-modernism; the oppressor-oppressed ideology can be played by anyone.
It’s the *lens* that sucks, is toxic, and has led to Marxism and untold suffering for billions of humans over the past 100+ years, in the name of “power to the (our) people!”
native Americans have a legitimate gripe, as do countless other groups farther back in time.
This is the bit that kind of bothers me. Sure, the native population of this continent got it in the shorts from European settlers but pretending these native groups were pure as driven snow and weren't engaged in the same or worse activities before 'white people' ever set foot on the continent is giving the natives a wide pass for what they did to each other and to the early settlers from Europe.
There is a reason those tribes didn't ally themselves to push the Europeans out until it was far too late to matter, and that reason is because they were worse to each other than the settlers ever were.
Note that isn't an excuse, but once you realize this fact it starts to become clear that maybe looking at what happened hundreds of years ago through the moral lens of today is an absurd waste of time. By that measure, everyone in the past was a giant asshole and nobody was a good guy so why do we waste our time trying to reform native tribes outside some bizarre guilt for what happened hundreds of years ago by people you probably aren't even related to anyway.
I mean, shit, those cliff dwellings were not built to protect the peaceful tribes of the region from Europeans. They were built to protect those tribes from other tribes. The hilarious part are the tribes that killed and/or enslaved those peaceful tribes pretend that they have no idea what happened to those farmer tribes. Yeah, sure they don't. If it doesn't make it into your oral history it must not have happened, right? It's the same reason they get offended when it's shown that South American influence caused some of those tribes to be cannibals for a time. It didn't happen because it somehow didn't make it into those oral histories despite physical evidence from bones from the southwest United States.
And those cliff dwelling tribes likely practiced cannibalism according to the archeological records. So, even they had issues.
I live in SW Colorado and have learned a bit about pre-pueblo and pueblo cultures. Beyond the defensive architecture, there is physical evidence of lots of regional to local warfare, with excavations of entire villages where almost all the male skeletons, and most of the others, show indications of violent death. Of course, this info is never included in the stories told to tourists.
Which would track. Anthropologists have long maintained that warfare became both more violent and more frequent as cultures progressed from hunter gatherers to agriculturalists. It's much harder to migrate to another area when resources are threatened when you have built cities and have crops planted, plus agriculture has periods of high activity and low activity whereas hunting gathering the level of activity tends to be more even (except in winter). Plant in the spring, war in the summer, harvest in the fall, everyone takes the winter off (to hard to move or feed an army on the winter). It's a pattern that was largely followed up into the 20th century.
With the Industrial Revolution and rise of Post-Modernism and fall of fighting ‘for king and country’ or wars off invading hordes, or pesky mountain raiders, humans empathy was hacked and “power to the people” has largely resulted in most of the conflicts this century.
And don't forget that the first things natives did was seek alliances with one or more European "invader" groups, and their assistance in waging war against traditional native enemies.
"the first things natives did was seek alliances with one or more European "invader" groups,"
"Listen, I dont know you well John Smith, but fucking SittingBull next door keeps blowing his grass clippings in my yard and parking in my driveway, so I would like to propose a plan..."
"And don't forget that the first things natives did was seek alliances with one or more European "invader" groups, and their assistance in waging war against traditional native enemies."
Not true. The Tlaxcalans fought many battles with Cortez, and could have wiped them out, before entering into an alliance with them.
One exception doesn't negate the pattern, moron.
Perhaps you're not familiar with Cortez. What I describe was the pattern, and not at all exceptional. He would meet with natives, who were hostile, and after some skirmishing he would convince them of the wisdom of an alliance. He was a lawyer by training, and a crafty one at that. He knew that divide and conquer was the only way his small party would have a chance to survive.
You are not a moron, just ignorant of the history of the continent. No doubt the product of a mediocre public school education.
Conquistador: Hernán Cortés, King Montezuma, and the Last Stand of the Aztecs by Buddy Levy has the information you need.
At the time the people who lived then had a legitimate gripe. That doesn't mean all of their descendants have a legitimate gripe forever. We need to stop using this bullshit collectivist language. People are not their ancestors, nor are they defined by their ethnic heritage. This is the world we live in.
That's a fair point too. My family came over from Ireland in the late 1800's and never owned a single slave nor shot a single native.
According to these same collectivists, I'm still guilty because we are among the whitest of the white.
Amusingly, this belief system means the natives who are alive today are guilty of genocide many times over again which sort of makes moot the idea that American settlers were guilty of anything. Isn't it considered a good thing by todays measure to take out groups who are guilty of genocide?
It's just more of the same white savior/white guilt narrative that says that white people are the only people with agency and morals and thus are responsible for everything bad that happens. Yes, it's extremely racist but somehow that doesn't register to this crowd in particular.
They sometimes excuse this type of thing because of 'power imbalance' which is notably not applicable to the native population. They, by far, had the numbers in North America and the colonists were in just about all respects the extreme minority on the continent at the time.
Again, this isn't an excuse it's just pointing out that the whole thing is retarded from start to finish. For fucks sake, the Bureau of Indian Affairs is still a federal agency and it's been one for just about exactly 200 years. That's got to be a great fucking job if you can get it, since you have to do just about nothing today.
And the BIA has probably done more than any person or organization to keep Indians in a state of helpless poverty. Should have either left them a decent piece of the country where they could have their own truly sovereign state, or just made them normal citizens like everyone else a long time ago. The perpetuation of the reservations and federally recognized tribe system isn't doing any good for anyone except the grifters getting rich off of casinos and other special privilege ventures.
Their current descendants, of course, literally would not exist but for those injustices done to those ancestors. Which sperm fertilizes an egg is highly contingent. Even very, very mild changes to someone's life before they conceive a child will change which sperm fertilizes the egg, replacing the child with a sibling.
So, insofar as someone considers their own very existence an injustice, I am willing to sympathetically acquiesce to their demands that the United States immediately, decisively, and permanently repair that injustice.
Exactly. There is no alternative world where we could all exist in a state where the injustices of history didn't happen. It would be a completely different world populated with different people. Not relevant at all to the actual world we live in.
It's like when people talk about how lucky people are to be born into comfortable lives in stable countries with decent parents. No, there is no luck there at all. There is literally no other condition or place I could have been born into and still be the individual I am.
And considering that something like only 5% of Amerindians have no European ancestry, this goes a lot further.
My cousin (my Dad's little sister's oldest) is part of one of the French Canadian Tribes. We were swimming one time, and she says to me 'your people stole my people's land'. I was like 'girl, we have the same grandparents'.* (It was also factually incorrect because our family didn't immigrate from Scandinavia until the latter half of the 19th century, and settled in Minnesota and South Dakota, and her tribe was from Canada).
*For the record she is far more Norwegian and Danish than Amerindian.
I agree with everything you say. If I came off like I thought the native Americans were totally peaceful and innocent, I represented my point poorly. They were humans doing human things who met other more advanced humans doing "more advanced" human things.
Nah, I didn't interpret your comment that way I just wanted to go down the rabbit hole on why the people who actually do think that way are a bit retarded.
Everyone hates the Mongolians.
I would love to see a land acknowledgment at a woke conclave gathering somewhere in Syria. It would take hours and hours to relate the known history of the chain of never-ending land-stealing that took place there.
"It would take hours and hours to relate the known history"
Wouldn't it be easier? The people who've settled in Syria are settlers who have strong ideas about land, land tenure and ownership. The Indians of North America were nomadic and not strongly tied to a piece of real estate. The had sacred grounds, burial grounds, and hunting grounds, but their ideas of the relationship between a people and a particular piece of ground has to be different from that of sedentary people.
Aztecs stole all the land they had about 200 years before the Conquest.
Nuh-uh! My local shaman told me it was all peace and harmony and love and kisses and totally gender equality and never, ever, never war, and genocide, and slavery like white people.
The Sioux and Cheyenne didn't take the Blacks Hills until 1840 and didn't conquer the Powder River Basin until the mid-1860s, yet they still recognize these lands as Sioux and Cheyenne lands (much to the chagrin of the Crow in regards to the Powder River Basin). The Sioux still maintain that these lands are their ancestral lands, despite not taking them from previous tribes until the Civil War Era (in fact, Europeans had settled in the Dakotas before the Sioux entered the Dakotas, the British had a trading post on the Missouri starting in the early 18th century, when the Sioux were still living along the Great Lakes).
"when the Sioux were still living along the Great Lakes"
I do a land acknowledgement every time I get some butter from that one brand
Another example, the Comanche didn't arrive in the southern Plains until the mid 18th century. The Spanish colonists recorded when they arrived. The Spanish authorities complained about trying to protect the colonists and the Pueblo's from this new, encroaching tribe, which had not been seen before. The first written record by the Spanish authorities in Texas and New Mexico was in the 1740s (the Spanish arrived two centuries before that for reference). There are others, like the Iroquois moved west after the Europeans arrived. The Cherokee moved west and south (before they were forced to relocate). The list goes on and on (hell, the Navajo and Apache are most closely related to tribes in Northwest Canada and Southeast Alaska and arrived in the southwest roughly around the same time as the Spaniards). One of the biggest movers were horses and guns. The tribes that acquired horses and guns moved and displaced tribes that didn't have many horses and guns. Of course this meant tribes that had contact with Europeans were the ones who went on to conquer their neighbors (or relocate all together to a different part of the country).
Of course some migration occurred before the introduction of horses and guns, but for a number of the larger tribes we now associate with a certain region, really only gained control of those regions because of the Europeans.
There was also a massive continents wide civilization collapse in the first part of the 15th century, and populations were already slightly in decline, before Columbus arrived. The Mississippian culture, the proto-Pueblo/Anasazi culture, the Mayan, the newly discovered western Amazonian, and the culture that predated the Incan (I can't recall it's name right now) all collapsed around the end of the 14th, beginning of the 15th century and had been declining for a couple centuries. Archo-geological data suggests there were a series of severe droughts in this period, and it's hypothesized that these were the result of the Little Ice Age. Which isn't surprising as civilizations/dynasties across Eurasia also declined or collapsed, often due to famine brought on by the weather changed associated with the Little Ice Age.
But these movements did occur. The Navajo (Dene) moved south from northern Alberta and NWT to the Four Corners (with the Apache) about a thousand years ago.
Not a thousand years ago. About the 1400s per the archeological records. They might maintain it was a a 1000 years ago, but the archeological records show it was in the 15th century. So, they essentially were contemporaries, historically speaking, of the Spaniards (hell, they probably helped bring about the collapse of the Anasazi cultures, which were already threatened by poor harvests as I mentioned above). Additionally, the Apache and Navajo probably started their migration around the 13th century, but the archeological evidence shows they spent quite awhile on the northern plains and a long the front range, and only arrived in the Southwest around the 15th century. The point is that most of the tribes we associate with certain geographical regions arrived there either around the same time as Europeans or, like most of the Great Plains tribes, after European contact.
When I worked for Montana State University Extension they did a land acknowledgement statement as part of our annual conference (they did it once and then not again because of the incident I'm going to relay). They showed a map of the tribes to acknowledge the 'natives lands'. It was a map based on the Fort Laramie treaty from just before the Civil War. The Fort Laramie treaty was widely rejected by all tribes, but most especially the Crow, and was even widely ridiculed by most whites who had any familiarity of the area, because it followed no historical precedence for the land allocation (the Crow got majorly screwed) and would have given the Blackfoot, Sioux and Cheyenne control of vast areas that were traditionally Crow lands, including the Powder River Basin. But the Crow were largely our allies and we were trying to make peace with the Sioux and Cheyenne. The Crow would eventually lose most of the Powder River area over the next couple years but still controlled it at the time. Several agents, myself included, recognized this and pointed it out (gee, agricultural agents in Montana study Western history as a hobby, who would have thought). That's the last time they tried a land use acknowledgement at our annual conference.
Hey, those Blood Temple sacrifices with the beating heart don’t perform THEMSELVES.
You think it’s easy, cutting out still beating hearts?
Btw if you ever want a good laugh, listen to “Fall of Civilizations: Aztec Empire” and how far he bends over backwards to explain away Human sacrifice as totally not a thing, but if it were, it’s just cultural differences and totally not savage AF at all…(they all are extremely excellent episodes IMO)
I think the exit poll results showing the high Indian vote for Trump may not be very good quality. Just saw something about that today.
It would be a huge reversal if they were. I wonder if they based them on voters in reservation counties, not realizing even on most reservations, there tends to be more Europeans than Amerindians living on the rez, and very few counties are wholly within the reservation (for no other purpose than for property taxes, states usually drew up county boundaries to include areas outside the reservation to insure that there was some form of tax base to support county functions).
That said, some counties are entire reservations such as Menominee County, Wisconsin (Ojibwe), and Oglala Lakota and Bennett Counties, South Dakota (Oglala Sioux).
Yeah, there are a few, but generally speaking states tried to avoid it (in fact in Montana it's actually state law, my county has long debated splitting at the reservation border but can't, the eastern portion would like to join with the county North of us but then the county and the other counties bordering the reservation (actually they have portions of the reservation in them to, but much smaller portions than my county) don't want to add even more of the reservation into their counties.
Make Native Acknowledgement Attack Vehicle Names Again!
My understanding is the US Army still is going to use Amerindians names for its helicopters into the future. The tribes actually got upset when they proposed changing it. The Cobra was about the only one that didn't follow this naming tradition, even the Huey was officially the UH-1 Iroquois (of HU-1 Iroquois under the older nomenclature, which is where the Huey nickname comes from).
There are a lot of tribes pissed off at the name erasure crappola. All but one Sioux tribe voted for the University of North Dakota to remain the Fighting Sioux. One said no. The Chippewa keep having to fight the NCAA over keeping the name and mascot for Central Michigan University.
The thing that gets me is that so many mascots use names and symbology that isn't consistent with the heritage of the names. The Vikings didn't wear horns on their helmet (and the toast Skal is probably a more modern thing). The Vandals also likely didn't wear horns (possibly wings on their helmets but these likely were ceremonial, in combat protrusions on your helmet would be detrimental). The fighting Irish. But those are okay. But not Amerindian mascots? Why? It makes no sense. As for the depictions, most even enlightened Amerindian detections tend to be stereotypical, generally of the plains tribes (feathered head dresses and such). Even the (especially) the white saviors are guilty of this.
All but one Sioux tribe voted for the University of North Dakota to remain the Fighting Sioux
Too lazy to look it up, but was that the Standing Rock branch? They've been notable for being the most spastic of the Lakota bands.
A couple years ago I read that jeep was dropping the grand Cherokee nameplate. Not sure if they followed through.
China's top leaders plan to loosen monetary policy and expand fiscal spending in 2025, as Beijing braces for a trade war when Donald Trump takes office...
Trump forced the Chicoms to go Keynesian? Now I've seen everything.
Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.
The Dominicans love their cats, too.
Cages make good neighbors
"A Missouri lawmaker wants to create a program which would give residents $1,000 payouts for reporting illegal immigrants in their communities to authorities," reports Newsweek. Forgive me, but I don't think giving normal people incentives to become bounty-hunting vigilantes will be a net positive for liberty.
Does taking taxpayer money, roughly 5800 a year each, and giving illegals free housing, food, cash, Healthcare, legal representation, etc become a net positive for liberty?
Is this the utilitarian view of liberty? Take from the few to give to the many? Although in this case it is take from the many to give to the few.
A better, and cheaper, policy would be to grant citizenship to any illegal who turns in ten or more other illegals.
Will it be live streamed?
El hombre que corre!
Does taking taxpayer money, roughly 5800 a year each, and giving illegals free housing, food, cash, Healthcare, legal representation, etc become a net positive for liberty?
No. So let's stop doing that first. Government created perverse incentives that exacerbated the problem. It's always best to first stop doing the stupid thing before adding more government action to mitigate the problems caused by the original stupid government action.
Until it stops immigration has to be fixed. Because we all know it won't stop. When Reagan pushed the 86 amnesty with promises of future immigration fixes, those fixes never arrived.
Nobody should fall for it again.
So now it is deport and go after illegal crossings until the welfare state is fixed.
How much liberty are you willing to sacrifice in order to deport all those filthy stinky illegals?
It won’t affect my liberty at all.
Why would any legal alien or citizen sacrifice any civil liberties here? What part of illegal alien don’t you get, Jeffy?
All of it.
How do you expect that the state will find all those dirty filthy illegals? Round up all the brown people? Random checkpoints where police ask for papers? Raids on businesses (including ones owned by citizens)? What's the plan here, that doesn't involve violating the liberties of citizens?
Dingbat, a good number of them they already know who they are from the catch and release practices at the border itself. How do you think those Haitians were working at the plant in Springfield, Ohio, anyway?
The same actions the government would use against me if I missed a court date would work for some.
Maybe stop catching and releasing them as they come over and deport the over 1million they actually have in custody for breaking other laws?
Awwww, there goes that selectively nuanced defeatist again, doing what he does best!
Yeah Jeff, best to not even try. Throw up the white flag, there’s nothing we can do.
Idiot.
Oh, there is definitely something that you can do. But I posit that everything you and your team try, will come at a cost, and that cost will be not only tax money but also human liberty of citizens as well as foreigners.
So sure, go ahead and establish your 'Papieren Bitte' regime, but don't pretend it is a cost-free exercise.
The flood of illegals is compromising my liberty. Don't be obtuse.
Being obtuse is in Jeffy’s nature. Were he not obtuse, we’d never have these arguments with the asshole.
How much liberty are you willing to give up in order to get rid of them all?
My liberty or your liberty?
Your liberty
Dude, we’ve deported illegal aliens before with zero effect on civil liberties. You’re just being an obnoxious asshole.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't illegal for an employer to hire an employee who wasn't a legal resident.
Also, how exactly are all those border guards paid for? Is it via tax money? I think it is. Don't you and your team want to hire more border guards?
So am I, dudette, but they did anyway. Don’t you remember the raids on chicken processing plants in the 80s and 90s?
Spell it out.
Exactly what liberties am i giving up by removing illegal aliens? I'm lukewarm on the mass deportations but I am not losing sleep over it. what exactly is the infringement on my liberty?
How do you expect the state to find all of these illegal immigrants? Explain how this can be done without violating the liberty of citizens.
The same way fugotoves and deserters are found.
Fugitives and deserters are, in general, known to the authorities before the manhunt begins. The illegal immigrants, on the other hand, are in general unknown to the authorities. So how do you find people whom you don't even know who they are?
Spell it out.
Okay, you can't answer the question. Got it.
Jeff believes liberty is supporting his and democrats demands. That is all.
He thinks he and his party have the right to take from you and give you others, screaming liberty.
Jeff is a fascist, not a libertarian.
As soon as someone takes from another, they are violating the NAP. Yet Jeff demands this.
It would be one thing if illegals turned down these benefits but they brag about taking them online.
As soon as someone takes from another, they are violating the NAP. Yet Jeff demands this.
Let's review: My preferred immigration policy is that the government spends next to nothing on migrants, at least compared to today. Government shouldn't be giving welfare to migrants, and also government shouldn't be throwing penniless Guatemalans in cages, who are not a threat to anyone.
Jesse's preferred policy, on the other hand, is that the government spends an ever-increasing amount of money on border security, which means spending money to pay men with guns to throw grandmas into cages, spending money to pay men with guns to raid workplaces to make sure the "wrong people" aren't working there, and spending money to pay men with guns to continually erode our Fourth Amendment liberties. Just like with the War on Drugs.
Jesse is the one who wants the state to steal from you to fund his policy preferences, not me.
Lol. And then when it turns out that there aren’t enough jobs, and the ones there are don’t pay enough to keep your new slave class sheltered and fed without government goodies, what then, jeff?
Your team ran wild with this shit and allowed way, way too many to come in. Time to fix that. We can settle on a number that benefits this country later. Overindulgence has a cost.
And then when it turns out that there aren’t enough jobs
Why would that happen? Do you really believe in the 'fixed economic pie' of jobs and prosperity? That if someone gets a job, that person "stole" that job from someone else?
If you want Top Men to manage the 'correct' number of jobs that should be allocated to the 'deserving' citizens, then just say so. But that sounds rather socialist to me.
Jesse loves to throw around that $150 billion per year figure that he claims is spent on illegal immigrants. What he doesn't tell you is that fully 1/3 of that figure represents border enforcement and law enforcement expenses that Jesse not only *fully supports* but thinks should be even higher.
Jesse is a dishonest cunt who blames illegals for the costs that he imposes upon the state for his priorities.
So we can go from $150 billion down to $50 billion in spending?
Deal.
The flood of illegals is compromising my liberty.
Be specific - how does the mere presence of a migrant without papers violate your liberty?
Let’s see…
1. By being undocumented, they are subject to having their civil liberties violated and used as slave labor.
2. They use resources, police, fire, medical, that should be used for citizens and legal aliens. Then they don’t pay for them, contributing to the closure of places like hospitals.
3. As they are currently, in most Democratic jurisdictions, they get preferential treatment under the law over citizens and legal aliens.
1. By being undocumented, they are subject to having their civil liberties violated and used as slave labor.
That would be a violation of their liberty, not yours.
2. They use resources, police, fire, medical, that should be used for citizens and legal aliens. Then they don’t pay for them, contributing to the closure of places like hospitals.
Again that is a result of how public services are funded, not about whether a person is here legally or not.
But let's just consider your argument for a moment - by your same argument, those visiting on tourist visas should also be banned from coming here, since tourists don't pay taxes either and they also use some measure of public services. Right?
3. As they are currently, in most Democratic jurisdictions, they get preferential treatment under the law over citizens and legal aliens.
They actually don't, but this answer is revealing, because it demonstrates what I have been saying for a while now - that you and your team view liberty in hierarchical terms, not as a birthright of all people. Only those who are judged to be "worthy" of liberty get its full measure, everyone else less so.
1. It’s still a violation of civil liberties that has an effect on us. Or are you a libertarian for slave labor?
2. The number on tourist visas are known, and they come in documented. Typically, at a hospital, they either use their own insurance or pay for it outright (see Canadian and UK medical tourism in the US).
3. So you just want to dismiss people like Kim Foxx and Alan Bragg?
1. Illegals are counted in census counts. This is an absolute violation of my local govenment, my voting power, and my money. It is a deliberate attack on my liberty and the architects behind it have even explicitly admitted the point of this is to stack the deck for their preferred voting outcomes.
2. Illegals migrants are given money, housing and food stamps on my dime, THEN pushed to grant amnesty citizenship. This a clear and deliberate attack on the liberty of the electorate.
3. Illegals are given preferential treatment and spending from many programs that should be helping americans.
4. Illegals with violent criminal backgrounds come across the border and are housed in my neighborhood on my dime. I'm literally paying to make myself unsafer and violate my own liberties in my own neighborhood.
1. Illegals are counted in census counts. This is an absolute violation of my local govenment, my voting power, and my money. It is a deliberate attack on my liberty and the architects behind it have even explicitly admitted the point of this is to stack the deck for their preferred voting outcomes.
The "architects behind it" are the Constitution's Framers. It says that the census should count everyone, not just citizens. And I'm pretty sure they did not put that clause in there to "stack the deck" in favor of illegal immigration, because in their day there was no such thing as illegal immigration.
It was a deliberate choice on their part, as they explicitly said that while slaves were property and not citizens, they deserve to be counted in the census anyway because they are not completely the same as inanimate pieces of property - they still retain some measure of human liberty and dignity even as slaves, such as for example with laws against their mistreatment. In this way their interests deserve to be represented even indirectly. It is a similar argument for all non-citizens who are residing here - they are not slaves, but they nonetheless have interests regarding liberty that deserve some measure of representation.
Here is Hamilton's argument on the matter, in Federalist 54.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-04-02-0203
So if you disagree with this argument, then please argue against this.
2. Illegals migrants are given money, housing and food stamps on my dime
Not as a result of merely being here without papers. And whatever liberty that you lost from having tax money confiscated from you to pay for their welfare, your liberty was lost at the point when your tax money was stolen REGARDLESS of to whom it was given. So the deprivation of your liberty in this regard is exactly the same whether or not the money goes to an illegal immigrant or it goes to a native-born citizen. And since the vast majority of welfare goes to native-born citizens, I have to wonder why you are not proportionately upset about the much greater affront to your liberty that their welfare expenses cause.
Tell us, if the government steals $100 from you and gives it to an illegal immigrant for welfare, do you think that this is a greater loss of liberty than if the government steals $100 from you and gives it to a native-born citizen for welfare?
3. Illegals are given preferential treatment and spending from many programs that should be helping americans.
You mean, the spending that shouldn't exist in the first place?
And I would really like to see a concrete example of a government program to benefit citizens that actually ran out of money because illegal immigrants jumped the line. Part of the reason for the huge debt is because the government DOESN'T stick to a budget.
4. Illegals with violent criminal backgrounds come across the border and are housed in my neighborhood on my dime.
I agree that this is a problem. But you know what would make it easier for the Border Patrol to catch criminals trying to sneak across the border? If you didn't insist that they spend their time hassling penniless Guatemalans and throwing them into cages instead. Let peaceful migrants come here, and that will free up their resources to go after the genuinely 'bad hombres'. Insane border restrictionism makes you LESS safe, not more.
“2. Illegals migrants are given money, housing and food stamps on my dime
Not as a result of merely being here without papers.”
Pretty sure NYC is not giving every person there money, housing and food stamps. But they ARE to the illegal immigrants that were bused there.
The indigent citizens in NYC already get their own welfare programs, just like the indigent citizens everywhere else. Are citizens eligible to get the exact same thing that migrants get? Well, no. They get their own thing.
You are arguing in favor of unfettered illegal immigration to the country. Why?
Instead of trying to invert the burden of proof, why don't you try to address the arguments that I made.
1. Why should non-citizens be excluded from the census, given that even the Constitution's Framers thought that even slaves should be represented in the census albeit in an indirect manner?
2. Why should the tax money that is stolen from you to give to illegal immigrants be considered more egregious than the same amount of tax money that is stolen from you to give to citizens?
Do you see value in the concept of a nation? If so, what laws and actions do you support to protect your nation?
I see value in the concept of borders. They are the extent of a sovereign's jurisdiction.
I don't see much value in the concept of a 'nation' when that concept is understood to be some collective identity that we all may or may not share. There is no single trait that every single "authentic American" shares and I am not interested in trying to force some type of social conformity onto everyone. Instead, we all create our own communities in our own way, perhaps in person, perhaps virtually, etc.
I don't see much value in the concept of a 'nation' when that concept is understood to be some collective identity that we all may or may not share.
That's how nations have defined themselves for milennia, you stupid fat fuck.
Jesse, above: "Vigilantism is terrible when it's about health care CEOs!"
Jesse, here: "Vigilantism is okay when it's about illegal immigrants!"
Make up your mind, bootlicker
Dipshit, one is someone committing a murder. The other is turning in a criminal. And yes, Jeffy, crossing the border without properly reporting is a crime. I dare you to cross the 49th that way and see how far you get.
I love this. You all are so deranged that you now are trying to justify vigilantism.
An individualist supports victim prosecution instead of government prosecution. What does that make you?
Again, I dare you to cross the 49th without reporting to customs and see how far you get.
That’s not vigilantism. The worst you could call it is bounty hunting.
But considering it’s a tip line, it’s more akin to the COVID snitching that you weren’t against.
A Missouri lawmaker wants to create a program which would give residents $1,000 payouts for reporting illegal immigrants in their communities to authorities...
Inviting feds in will not end well for anyone.
Except for the fedboys, of course.
This is modeled after Texas' weird abortion bounty statute. They try to incentivize citizens to do this so when someone challenges the law itself...they say 'the state govt isn't doing anything its private actors.'
Its rather dubious because there used to be case law that says the the govt can't do something indirectly if doing it directly would have been a constitutional problem. Its still unconstitutional with extra steps. Without looking at more details, this seems another attempt to put one layer of removal between Missouri agents and the law. Which, by the way, Missouri police aren't really in the business of enforcing federal immigration laws in the first place and are nowhere near the border.
This attorney is going to be shocked when he finds out the FBI has payments leading to arrests of criminals.
You mean “attorney “.
He’s definitely windy and shitty though.
When it comes to Windy the quotation marks are implicit.
Crime stoppers rewards or whatever is not the same as Texas' abortion law and if the Missouri law is modeled after Texas abortion law, then it won't be the same either. The whole point of this type of law is to attempt to shield the government from being primarily responsible so as to attempt to avoid responsibility for what the vigilantes do.
I.e, they are outsourcing orwellian tyranny to your neighbors. Which if you agree with that then there is nothing to discuss here because it isn't a question of liberty - its whose boots you want to be on the neck of the suspected illegals. To the illegal it doesn't matter if its a missouri state trooper or jim bob the local town drunk.
You are by far the dumbest and most ignorant fake attorney on here.
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/charlotte/news/reward-to-capture-fbi-ten-most-wanted-fugitives-increased-to-up-to-250000
Need another?
Payments for waste, fraud, and abuse.
Are you sure you even went to college?
Fuck, bounties have been the norm since the country was founded. In fact, deputy Marshals like Sam Bass didn't receive a salary in their day, they got paid through the bounties they collected (this is also mentioned in the novel and movies True Grit). In fact, for most of the history, deputy Marshals (federally sworn officers) were paid by bounty not by a government salary (Marshals on the other hand were an appointed position, who selected the deputies, and monitored them). Many early and frontier law systems also followed similar patterns in the US. Either that, or the lawman received a small payment. I believe as a deputy in Dodge, Wyatt Earp and Bat Masterson made something like $10 a month, but got bonuses for arrests and such. For comparison a rider on a trail drive averaged about $30 a month. I don't think Hickock made anymore when he was town marshal in Abilene. So, bounties have long been a part of US policing (and British in the day as well). Payment for tips has also a long history in both British and American legal systems.
Also, for the most part the wanted dead or alive thing is a western trope. Most court issued bounties actually penalized you for bringing in a dead suspect. Yeah you get some bounty (usually) but it was considerably less than if you brought them in alive.
Also, most bounties in the West were fairly small, $5-10, so the Marshals would try and arrest several of these offenders in a trip, which required them to need help guarding and feeding the prisoners. They had to pay for this help out of their bounty pay. They also were responsible for their own gear (horses, saddles, guns, ammo, often manacles, prison wagons etc). About the only thing the government gave them was their badges (cue Blazing saddles reference 'Badges, badges. We don't need no stinking badges.').
NONE OF THAT IS RESPONSIVE to my post. FBI rewards for information leading to arrests or convictions are simply not the same as Texas' abortion bounty law; which authorizes citizens to enforce anti abortion laws via courts with fucked up rules of procedure and evidence with limited defenses and cost shifting maneuvers.
Every time you comment you show your ignorance of US law and your inability to address comments substantively further shows your idiocy. The State of Missouri isn't responsible for enforcing federal immigration laws. Deputizing citizens of Missouri to enforce federal immigration laws doesn't make the practice any better; likely a whole lot worse.
Pray tell... when one of the vigilantes goes to kidnap a brown person and gets shot and it turns out the brown person isn't even illegal... what is the State of Missouri going to do then??? Maybe they refer back to your stupid ass comments here. "The FBI has rewards for most wanted fugitives huurrr durrr."
Democrats began their meeting on Thursday with a "land acknowledgement..."
The kind of people who do land acknowledgements are not the kind of people who learn lessons from voters.
They dont want their voters going off the reservation
And How.
Top news story of the day
"Dominicans are putting Haitians in cages ment for livestock: this is an improvement for the hatians, as they are not eating each other"
Below the fold: "Price of cat meat skyrockets as Haitian cats flee to the Dominican Republic".
Surprising no one, the ceasefire that wasn't. Hezball-less continues to violate the ceasefire, moving their people and weapons south of the Litani River. Israel keeps killing and destroying them.
Now that Syria has fallen, I expect an exodus of hezball-less terrorists to attempt emigrate to Lebanon. Lebanon is no longer immune; Israel stated that explicitly.
The best thing for Lebanon for the sake of the future of Lebanon is deny hezball-less terrorists entry.
Mike of course was blaming the Jews.
Haitians in cages!
P Diddy party?
Forgive me, but I don't think giving normal people incentives to become bounty-hunting vigilantes will be a net positive for liberty.
Unclean! Heretic! Apostate! Unforgiven!
Impious!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSTJsjEaUaw
Assad Gone at Last
At last, another unstable country full of Islamist, Caliphate-wanting, bomb-throwing plotters.
'After Homs fell, the rebels came into Damascus and declared Assad desposed. Prisoners were freed across the country, and the presidential palace was ransacked. Border checkpoints were emptied of guards.'
Ex-cons in the workforce, a J6 moment, and open borders. Which of these fit the Reason policy scheme?
It all sounds very Koch-style libertarian.
"Trump says he can't guarantee tariffs won't raise US prices and won't rule out revenge prosecutions"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-can-t-guarantee-tariffs-won-t-raise-us-prices-and-promises-swift-immigration-action/ar-AA1vueEv
Shorter headline:
Trump knows there are costs and will prosecute those who broke the laws.
'The Turkish military "fired on U.S.-backed Kurdish forces in northern Syria over the weekend," reports The New York Times.'
Just curious: where else did hegemonic militaries fire on US-backed forces last week?
'"A judge granted a motion from Manhattan prosecutors to dismiss the more serious charge of second-degree manslaughter against Daniel Penny on Friday in his trial over the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a New York City subway last year," reports CNN.'
And still absolutely nothing on Penny in the WSJ. Too local or not local enough?
You do have to appreciate Reason's just-the-facts-ma'am reporting on this, when they seem to be capable of getting positively breathless over some procedural sentencing-aberration with someone who was involved in a triple murder of a family sleeping in their beds.
Verdict just came back NOT GUILTY.
Hallelujah! Now he gets to be sued by the asshole’s father in civil court. 🙁
That clown show won't last long, I'd predict.
So they were deadlocked on shafting him good and hard but the current sentences just aren't worth it?
"China's top leaders plan to loosen monetary policy and expand fiscal spending in 2025, as Beijing braces for a trade war when Donald Trump takes office"
Just like Democrats!
'Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.'
And it's still an upgrade!
I mean, it's generally wild and feral animals that feed on regional wildlife and/or domesticated pets. Livestock get fed.
Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.
I wonder if this is a reaction to anything or this just popped up out of thin air randomly.
the cat ate the mouse and the Haitian ate the cat and the Dominican ate the Haitian ...
Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock.
Trump was right, again.
Shithole country filled with shithole people.
>>A third Democrat ... would move aside to allow Ocasio-Cortez to lead.
why get in the way of letting someone fall on their face?
Let's see... I can take a seat on the Oversight and Accountability Committee ahead of AOC and have to duke it out against DOGE for 4 yrs. while getting stabbed in the back for exercising my privilege by simply having seniority (and experience) over a more vocal female POC, all while my party tries to sort its shit out or... Ladies first!
Ro Khanna was also rumored to have allowed his wife to have her "me time" and go Black Friday shopping by herself.
"awww the cutie little Latinx wants to be president how adorable" ~~Ro
"Ro Khanna was also rumored to have allowed his wife to have her "me time" and go Black Friday shopping by herself.'
Im confused, is this come kind of cucking euphemism?
I believe the quote is, "shit before the shovel".
was Assad tooling around Damascus in the Ferraris?
@toobaffled
The UK government has announced plans to offer cash incentives to the relatives of elderly citizens who opt to be euthanized.
Anyone who did NOT see this coming should be stripped of their right to vote immediately. Too dumb to take part in that process. You should let the grownups handle it.
it's like they don't even have to jihad to win England.
I think that this is pandering to the Satanists more than the Muslims.
The crazy thing is offering $10000 bounties on the elderly to put them down before their time is probably still cheaper than actually treating them.
I can already predict what the British left will say, and it's almost certainly 'conservatives won't fund the NIH enough' despite the fact 'enough' in this particular case is everything the entire country has and more.
I suppose it's the gift that keeps on giving to the left over there since they get to endlessly claim the right is heartless while ignoring the fact no amount of money would ever be enough for that program. Actually, reminds me of social security right here at home. If they had any balls at all, they would outright cancel the entire program since they're going to be called heartless no matter what.
Might as well do what you actually want in that scenario since you'll be the devil either way.
>>[Maryland Rep. Jamie] Raskin
dude's ick proceeds him by like 75 feet
>>Wow, that was a lot of self-promotion, I feel queasy, but can you, dear reader, stomach just a little more?
yes, but do it Broadway style or no beans.
>>A Missouri lawmaker ... would give residents $1,000 payouts for reporting illegal immigrants in their communities to authorities
snitches get Clevelands.
>> "land acknowledgement," a symbolic gesture that grants that the land a person is standing on previously belonged to Native Americans..."
does anyone ever account for the Mayans who lived in Georgia?
Is there any indigenous tribe that didn't steal its territory from a previous tribe? Where are the Paelo Indians who first crossed from Asia?
Short answer: no.
And they were guilty of invading a pristine wilderness. According to Greta, that is worse than genocide.
This is why I laugh every time I hear American Indian tribes referred to as "First Nations" (as if they had been there in some static state right up until Europeans arrived). "Second to last Nations" would be a lot more accurate.
Ok, that made me laugh. Nice one Zeb.
^ +1
Could be a few cases where the current inhabitants genuinely moved into terra nullius. Easiest cases to prove would be recently settled islands.
Mascarene Islands? Svalbard?
On this continent, parts of the far north Canadian arctic and Greenland look like they had been totally abandoned for centuries before the current people moved in, so maybe not really a "steal".
One can make an argument the Inuit stole Greenland from the Scandinavians, if we want to discuss so-called “stolen land”.
Random bitching: It's bad enough some radio stations are playing Christmas songs 24/7 (before Halloween, no less), but when did Christmas become about sappy, romance-novel love stories? Just asking.
So the original Christmas Story (Mary, Angel of God, Joseph, Jesus) isn't a love story?
Well, the "Um, honey, an angel did it" storyline could be fun to explore.
garnered upmteen seasons of Ancient Aliens ...
there is certainly a rule 34 for this
> So the original Christmas Story (Mary, Angel of God, Joseph, Jesus) isn't a love story?
Well... I mean... it's certainly a cuckold story.
When a man stayed with his questionably pregnant wife in a stable as a sign of true love.
#cuckcity
I don't really mind that, but since we're bitching, the thing that really pisses me off is when corporations are doing their best to make bank off of Christmas, but they refuse to identify it as such.
Hanukkah was the Jewish equivalent of St. Swithin's Day before enterprising American Rabbis realized they needed something for the kids, and there really are no other religion's festivals.
So when they call it the "holiday season" and use festive but non-committal iconography you know what they are saying is "We want to make tons of money off of you and your religious celebration, but you and those primitive sky fairy beliefs are so repugnant to us that we refuse to mention it by name out of concern for offending others who also hate you. Now give us your money".
As Michael Jordan might say: "Atheists buy tennis shoes too."
This is so emblematic about how you and your team view yourselves as the center of the universe. When companies try to broaden their reach by appealing to all customers during the holiday season, even those who don't celebrate Christmas, you complain. When companies try to broaden their reach by appealing to all customers, even transgender ones (e.g. Dylan Mulvaney), you complain.
It's as if you think your team is entitled to be the sole focus of attention of all companies everywhere.
You can go fuck yourself, bigot.
If you want to ignore Christmas, fine, go ahead. I'll grump on Anti-theist-Stick-up-the-Ass-Day or whatever you goat-worshipping Satanists celebrate too.
But when you try to make money off of Christmas while simultaneously acting that it's too disgusting to publicly name then you can go fuck yourselves.
No, we all get it. The majority gets to set the social rules, and the minority does not. So if the minority feels excluded from the marketplace because stores are celebrating a holiday that they do not celebrate, then that's their problem and they should just suck it up.
Companies have a duty to cater to the straight white male Christian demographic and everyone else can go to hell.
Of course, if the conservative point of view is a minority one anywhere, and the majority decides that they don't want to tolerate the minority conservative point of view, then that's an affront to all that is good and noble and it's probably government censorship somehow and why can't we have a 'culture of free speech' and we need the government to step in and mandate that all platforms host all content for the sake of the poor, poor persecuted conservatives.
No. You don't get to pretend that profiteering off of someone else's beliefs while pretending they're gross is the same thing as setting social rules, Lying Jeffy, you piece of shit. You're trying to redirect, as usual, away from the fact that these people are trying to simultaneously exploit and suppress.
Also, what you're advocating for is tyranny of the minority. A small segment of bitter anti-theists gets to forbid the vast majority's celebrations because, what, you hate them? That's not a good fucking reason for suppression.
But I guess this is just par for the course for guys like you: The Nazis Fought the Original War on Christmas
and
The Nazis’ War on Christmas
Oliver Cromwell and the Puritans thought Christmas was too popish to their taste. They banned it long before the Nazis appeared on the scene.
The Jehovah's Witnesses banned celebrating this reindeer ridden pagan festival from the get go and still refuse to join in today. December 25th is not mentioned in the bible and there is no proof that Jesus was born on the day.
Yes, but Lying Jeffy isn't a Puritan or a Jehovah Witness but he is a Nazi.
"December 25th is not mentioned in the bible and there is no proof that Jesus was born on the day."
You really are the most midwitty of all the midwits who have ever midwitted before. Walk into any church and they'll tell you the same thing. The date was picked by early Christians for the feast of the nativity because of an old Jewish tradition that the greatest prophets die on the day of their conception. Work forward nine months from Easter and voila.
Sieg Heil baby!
" Walk into any church and they'll tell you the same thing."
The Witnesses and the Puritans took their bible more seriously than we 'holiday season' celebrants do.
". The date was picked by early Christians for the feast of the nativity because of an old Jewish tradition that prophets die on the day of their conception. "
Now do elves.
Cite?
Just ask Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer if you're curious about what the good book says about Christmas, Boxing Day, New Years Eve or any other day of the holiday season.
Most churches don't know why December 25th was chosen, they mutter about Jesus' birth. Just like they don't know why the Catholic Church moved the Sabbath to Sunday.
No, we all get it. The majority gets to set the social rules, and the minority does not. So if the minority feels excluded from the marketplace because stores are celebrating a holiday that they do not celebrate, then that's their problem and they should just suck it up.
I don't get this collection of words and syllables.
*thinks*
Ok, so I move to a middle Eastern country and I'm an atheist, not a Muslim Atheist, but a western Christian atheist just like Richard Dawkins. I don't celebrate Ramadan. We make up a tiny minority in a country of millions. In addition to that, there ARE Muslim Atheists who, like Christian Atheists in America, actually celebrate Ramadan. During Ramadan, there is a push to eliminate the word "Ramadan" from any mention of the time when Ramadan is celebrated by vendors and merchants, but its absolutely clear that it's Ramadan that's being celebrated, because Christian Atheists buy sneakers, too.
Shorter: Imagine living in Israel and all the stores selling "Holiday Menorahs".
In the setting of the left being actively hostile to Christians, them also making an effort to get people to stop saying "Merry Christmas" at Christmas time probably pisses some people off.
This is an ongoing trend, in which left leaning people "just want to be inclusive" of their thing, and definitely arent making an effort to defocus the thing they dont like, but conveniently have another option available they have placed directly next to the thing they dont like.
I didn't hear a mention of Columbus day in school communications for the kids this year, it was 100% indigenous people's day stuff.
My town (blueish city in a red state) had a bigger fireworks (like 15 minutes) display and a parade for Juneteenth. They set off like 3 minutes of fireworks for the 4th of July.
Insisting the black national anthem be played along with the national anthem (that the left encourages people to protest) at the super bowl.
Pattern recognition isnt in your favor here Jeff.
If Trump wanted to troll super hard, he would do exactly what the left has been doing and make February "All races history month". What's the problem? You dont want to be inclusive of all races? Are you a bigot? June could also double as both pride month and heteronormativity appreciation and child bearing month.
Good for the goose, right Jeff? To be inclusive of everyone?
Insisting the black national anthem be played
I'll admit, I had no idea that was a thing. Weird.
Why is the Black national anthem sung before the Super Bowl?
The NFL began having a singer perform "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing" before the Super Bowl in 2020, in the wake of racial and social justice protests in the United States following the death of George Floyd.
Nah, it's just a simple historical fact. The "Holiday season" is a thing because of Christmas. All of the marketing uses colors, shapes and icons that are traditionally (at least for the last 150 years or so in northern European cultures) Christmas related. Pretending that it's not about Christmas is just dishonest.
Personally, I don't really care that much. I'm not going to complain because someone says "Happy Holidays" (though I will be annoyed if someone complains about saying "merry Christmas"). And I think the "war on Christmas" thing is way overhyped. But it's still a stupid pretense that "the holidays" are there for any reason other than it being Christmas.
There probably would be a holiday season of sorts in late December anyway. The Romans celebrated a festival at that time, and it is believed that the birth of Christ was moved to it coincide with the winter solstice. A fair number of Biblical scholars believe that the birth probably happened in September due to the descriptions in the Gospels.
OK, that's a fair point. The scheduling of the Christian festivals did have a lot to do with pre-existing religious celebrations. But you still would have needed Christianity, or something similar to keep those Roman and other traditions going for the last few millennia.
Years ago, I had a Jewish acquaintance who told me a story about how she put up a little Christmas tree in her room when she was a kid because she thought it was pretty. Her parents freaked the fuck out. Because it's just a 'holiday tree'.
"But it's still a stupid pretense that "the holidays" are there for any reason other than it being Christmas."
I wouldn't care but for the fact that their trying to get Christians to buy their product strictly because Christmas, while at the same time acting like their holiday is too toxic to mention. It's the most disgustingly arrogant thing you can possibly do.
" It's the most disgustingly arrogant thing you can possibly do"
It's almost as bad as stealing a festival from pagans and pretending it's got something to do with the bible and Jesus.
"We can mostly, sorta, tolerate the family values portion of your message for the ends of breeding more consumers. So, let's agree, we to advertising and you to consuming (and making more consum... families), on that."
Jesus sees everyone else getting gifts on his birthday and it makes him sad.
Jesus thinks you're a jerk.
Is that a bumper sticker? Should be.
I made it into a bumper sticker at one point.
I should note: credit for the phrase to Frank Zappa.
>
JesusKyle sees everyone else getting gifts onhis birthdayChristmas and it makes him sad.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUJ5VvMpXh8
The attendants at the home you stay in took the TV remote away again didn't they?
1915
https://corporate.hallmark.com/holidays-occasions/christmas/#:~:text=Hallmark%20made%20its%20first%20Christmas,gift%20wrap%20industry%20in%201917.
"Genuinely clownish article by @amacker at WaPo, betrays total lack of expertise on the topic. Embarrassing "let's ask the critics and call them experts" kind of piece."
Well at least now I know where Lying Jeffy got his debanking narratives from this weekend.
"After Homs fell, the rebels came into Damascus and declared Assad deposed. Prisoners were freed across the country, and the presidential palace was ransacked. Border checkpoints were emptied of guards."
I've yet to see any reports of sectarian pogroms, massacres, beheadings or other atrocities. The rebels are also stressing the importance of a unified Syria rather than breaking it into pieces. The toppling seems to be bad news for Israel which has favored the weak rule of Assad, and the new leaders of Syria threatening to take Jerusalem and Gaza.
JOOOOZZZZZ!!!!!
Jooozzz, dooooogs, and caaaaats!!
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/12/09/the-daniel-penny-trial-has-exposed-the-moral-rot-of-the-left/
The Daniel Penny trial has exposed the moral rot of the left
The speed with which this case was racialised speaks to a deep ideological sickness in ‘progressive’ circles.
The Daniel Penny / Jordan Neely case has a significance that extends beyond the outcome of the trial itself. It speaks to a sickness in parts of the left-liberal psyche. To sympathise more with the convicted criminal threatening to kill other people than with a man who put his own safety at risk to protect his fellow citizens requires an ideologically distorted view of right and wrong. It rests on the flipping of values that, across time and across societies throughout history, have been near constant. Most people find this hard to fathom, or stomach.
Worst of all, all this was entirely predictable. As soon as the story broke, we all knew that moral entrepreneurs on the left would use Neely’s death to try to whip up racial grievances. We knew that the same activists who claim to want ‘justice reform’, and who routinely seek reduced sentences for violent killers, would now demand the harshest sentence possible for Penny. We knew that parts of the media would paint the man who was restrained as a poor, unfortunate soul and probable victim of racism, and would seek to avoid any frank discussion of his appalling behaviour.
The woke’s cynicism, hypocrisy and dogmatic commitment to ideology over basic decency – the worst aspects of progressive cultism, in other words – have all been on display in this single tragic story.
The fact the judge let the DA call Penny thr white man throughout trial...
Then allowed the DA to drop charges DURING deliberation to stop a mistrial...
Judges are often a corrupt lot, but New York's judiciary really take the cake.
""Then allowed the DA to drop charges DURING deliberation to stop a mistrial..."'
Well that didn't work out for the DA.
"The speed with which this case was racialised speaks to a deep ideological sickness in ‘progressive’ circles."
It was racialized before the killing even occurred. Remember this is America we're talking about, where a racial aspect is baked into every conceivable issue. The notion that a white man can choke a black man to death, or vice versa, without it becoming 'racialized' is disingenuous or childishly naive.
or vice versa
If Penny were Black and Neely were white, there would have been no charges filed, and we would not have heard of the incident.
"there would have been no charges filed"
Maybe not. Why? Because of race. As I wrote, every conceivable issue is racialized. And you likely would have heard about it unless both of those involved were of similar skin tone. The idea that a black man could choke to death a white man without anyone taking notice is either disingenuous of childishly naive.
> If Penny were Black and Neely were white, there would have been no charges filed, and we would not have heard of the incident.
Oh, we would have heard of it, but the narrative would have been something along the lines of, "heroic black man saves commuters..."
You're obviously new here. Race baiting is what we serve up here. If the black man in question were a wealthy celebrity, he may get a sympathetic hearing. Otherwise we'd bend over backwards to find fault with the black choker.
Yeah, but I see progressive motivation consistent with most human (and pre-human) values: my tribe over your tribe. The reasons claimed may vary, but most people operate on this level.
And the verdict is back on the second charge against Daniel Penny: not guilty. He's free to go. What a ridiculous prosecution.
This one was almost as good as Rittenhouse, except St.Kyle eliminated a convicted kiddie rapist and a grandma-slapping drug addict, which puts him over the top.
good for Mr. Penny.
Meanwhile, in Haiti (from the WSJ):
Haiti Gangs Kill More Than 180 Mostly Elderly People in Capital
A warlord ordered the slaying of elderly slum residents he suspected of giving his son a severe illness through witchcraft, the U.N. and human-rights groups said.
As CNN says, it is just a handful of grandparents murders. Why the outrage?
Jealous of the UK program to reduce the senior citizen population?
"A warlord ordered the slaying of elderly slum residents he suspected of giving his son a severe illness through witchcraft"
Those silly savages. We in progressive society know that the severe illnesses are instilled in the children through govt propaganda. Pffffft, witches.
And government vaccines.
Jimmy Cherizier's Journal. Dec. 9th, 2024:
Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This country is afraid of me. I have seen it's true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Do you want Grandma to die? Even if it only saves one child?!"...
...and I'll look down, and whisper "Yes."
"Haitians are being deported in the Dominican Republic, rounded up and put in cages meant for livestock."
You are never more than 200 miles from the Haitian border in the Dominican Republic. A three and a half hour journey at the most, a one and a half hour journey from Santo Domingo.
It's also not like the Dominicans are not 80% mixed African or particularly rich, but they are hard working and don't want the failed state next door tipping into them.
"It's also not like the Dominicans are not 80% mixed African or particularly rich, but they are hard working and don't want the failed state next door tipping into them."
And the democrats saw that and said "Springfield seems like a good place for them"
At this point we have to abandon Hanlon's razor when considering Democrats.
Failed state?!? The Clinton's made millions for themselves and billions foe their friends. Success!
I mean, not particularly rich, but higher per capita GDP than Haiti by a factor of 5+ (based on exchange rate) or 9+ (based on PPP).
"higher per capita GDP than Haiti by a factor of 5+"
Yes, but that's everyone. You don't get poorer in the western hemisphere than Haiti.
Isn't that kind of the point? I mean, what's the explanation for Haiti being THAT much poorer than the DR? Conjoined twins, practically speaking, would tend to have similar GDP. What can we say about Haiti that differentiates it from the DR? Maybe it's the French background?
"Failed state?" It's been this way since 1804. At what point do we need a different term for Haiti?
I offered to donate $300 if Reason fires, trades, or bodily transmutes the Jesus Lizard to Heaven. That offer stands and would increase what I just gave. Donald MacDonald has been declared winner by their count, so the Jesus caucus and nazi Trojan Horses can disband, to back to trying to lynch Stefan Moritz and throwing stones at pregnant women approaching women's clinics. The outcome was paid for by the Nixon campaign law all legal a sea salt. So git back to Alabammy.
"I offered to donate $300 if Reason fires, trades, or bodily transmutes the Jesus Lizard to Heaven."
I think the old retard is referring to Liz. He sure hates her. I was saying he was Sqrlsy and Buttplug's dad, but maybe he's White Mike's?
Also, is he requesting a hit?
And yes, it does sound like he’s calling for a hit. I believe such a thing is a bannable offense.
You mean he’s not referring to the band?
Cope harder.
Reported, Hank, as this seems like you want a hit on an article writer.
I just assumed that's Hank's flirting.
Hank's the kind of 70's dinosaur who'd grab a female stranger's ass and then call her a stuck-up bitch when she slapped him.
Smokey & The Bandit was also an instruction manual.
Oh! Susanna, Oh don't you cry for me!
For I come from Alabammy with my banjo on my knee.
Merry Christmas Hank!
My agency was doing the land acknowledgements at the top of the DEI meetings. But it went away. I guess I wasn't the only one that thought it felt more like spiking the ball that you won than honor natives.
Syria was scolded and badmouthed for not banning hashish in 1928, when the League of Nations was worried that weed would lower the price of smack. Syria is what happens when gangs of foreign mystical prohibitionists struggle to wreck a country decade after decade by banning it's production and trade for about a century. Look at Nazi Argentina!
I love how topical and contemporary old Hank is with his criticisms.
hashish in 1928, when the League of Nations was worried that weed would lower the price of smack. Syria is what happens when gangs of foreign mystical prohibitionists struggle to wreck a country decade after decade by banning it's production and trade for about a century.
Are you referring to Russia here?
"BREAKING: Daniel Penny acquitted of all charges with Jordan Neely"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_78_r_03aM
How about that. Looks like the jury got this one right.
But the DA ought to be swinging from a lamp post.
Joining Mike Nifong in a cell, anyway.
"Man being questioned in Pennsylvania in connection with killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RsDqNWrVXA
FBI: He was on our radar
https://nypost.com/2024/12/09/us-news/person-of-interest-in-fatal-shooting-of-unitedhealthcare-boss-brian-thompson-idd-as-luigi-mangione-an-ex-ivy-league-student/
Contra to that video they do know his name: Luigi Mangione. He's from Towson, a Baltimore suburb. He want to an elite private school, Gilman, and then U-Penn. His family is rich and politically connected.
He was groomed by the FBI , no question
"the mere act of seeking the job signals that she's serious about rising, both within the House of Representatives and within her own party"
too bad she's repeatedly shown herself to be fundamentally unserious about governing, indifferent to critical details of fact, and lacking in any sort of visible ability to engage in serious deliberation or consideration. raw, naked ambition should not be the criterion by which we evaluate our elected officials.