Did the Abraham Accords Pave the Way for Total War?
Many conservatives saw the Abraham Accords as a way to get U.S. forces out of the Middle East. Now the architect of the agreement is pushing for a regime change campaign in Lebanon—and maybe Iran.

The Abraham Accords, the U.S.-sponsored alliance between Israel and several Arab states, were supposed to get the United States out of the Middle East. At least, that's what many conservative proponents argued.
In 2020, neoconservative writer Michael Doran argued in Tablet magazine that the accords were an agreement to "step up and bear more of the burden so that America can step back." Two years later, the hawkish Washington Institute for Near East Affairs claimed that the accords were allowing Washington "to gradually withdraw from the Middle East to focus its efforts and resources on the Pacific Ocean, the rise of China, and the consequences of the Russian invasion of Ukraine."
Sen. J.D. Vance (R–Ohio) has even made this strategy a large part of his foreign policy pitch. A few months before being nominated as former President Donald Trump's running mate, Vance told the antiwar Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft that "combining the Abraham Accords approach with the enduring defeat of Hamas" will ensure that "Israel, with the Sunni nations, can actually police their region of the world. That allows us to spend less time and less resources in the Middle East."
That's not how former Trump administration official Jared Kushner, a key architect of the accords, sees it. Over the weekend, he posted an essay to social media arguing that the United States should build on the "Abraham Accords breakthrough" by backing an Israeli war in Lebanon, and hinted that the time is ripe for a wider U.S. war. "Iran is now fully exposed," he wrote, adding that "it's not only Israel's fight."
Of course, the Trump administration has never pretended that the Abraham Accords were meant to allow U.S. disengagement; then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo bragged about unlocking more "defense cooperation." The Biden administration itself promised a permanent U.S. military commitment to Abraham Accords member Bahrain in order to entice Saudi Arabia to join the alliance.
But Kushner's essay moves the goalposts from a defensive commitment to an offensive one. It's now hard to pretend that the vision is anything less than a regime change campaign on the scale that old-fashioned neoconservatives could only dream of.
Kushner wrote his essay in response to the Israeli assassination of Hezbollah commander Hassan Nasrallah. Hezbollah, a Lebanese militia backed by Iran, had been engaged in a low-grade border war with Israel for the past year. Israel decided to assassinate Nasrallah after he kept demanding an end to the Israeli war in Gaza in exchange for a ceasefire in Lebanon, an Israeli official told NBC.
The Israeli army is now beginning a ground incursion into Lebanon, after the Biden administration reportedly talked Israel out of a full-on ground invasion. However, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has hinted at even larger plans, calling Nasrallah's assassination "Operation New Order" and stating that the fall of the Iranian government "will come a lot sooner than people think."
Nasrallah's assassination "is significant because Iran is now fully exposed. The reason why their nuclear facilities have not been destroyed, despite weak air defense systems, is because Hezbollah has been a loaded gun pointed at Israel," Kushner wrote. "The right move now for America would be to tell Israel to finish the job. It's long overdue. And it's not only Israel's fight," he added.
Kushner added that Iran is the "main issue between Lebanon and Israel" and brought up Hezbollah's role in killing U.S. Marines in 1983, during the last U.S. military intervention in Lebanon.
That incident, of course, demonstrates exactly why Kushner's vision might not go as planned. In 1982, before Hezbollah existed, Israel invaded Lebanon to root out Palestinian guerrillas. Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon envisioned an operation aimed at "transforming Lebanon into a reliable ally," assassinating Palestinian leadership, expelling Palestinians, and eventually overthrowing the government of Jordan, according to Rise and Kill First by Ronen Bergman.
After Israeli forces stormed Beirut, the Lebanese capital, they successfully installed their ally, Bachir Gemayel, as prime minister and forced the Palestine Liberation Organization to withdraw from the country. (U.S. Marines were sent to oversee the Palestinian withdrawal.) But Gemayel was assassinated by one of his own countrymen, and a new militia called Hezbollah emerged to fight both the Israeli and U.S. presence.
Kushner's reference to Iranian nuclear sites points to another, greater danger. As of this spring, the U.S. government believes that Iran could build a nuclear bomb within several months but has not yet made the decision to do so. The Israeli attacks on Hezbollah and the hints that more is coming have almost certainly changed Iran's calculations.
It's a given that any military campaign against the Iranian nuclear program would require direct U.S. involvement, since Israel could not do it alone, as former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and retired Israeli military analyst Danny Citrinowicz point out. Iranian nuclear facilities are hardened and scattered throughout the country; only the United States has enough aircraft, air bases within range, and bunker-busting bombs to hit all of these sites.
The U.S. president may very soon face a choice between allowing Iran to build a nuclear bomb or bombing Iran, a prospect that suits Kushner, Pompeo, and Netanyahu well. The question for Trump and Vance is whether they support this vision, too.
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The US should close all foreign military bases and stop gifting any money to any foreign nation. Let the locals deal with their issues.
"The US should close all foreign military bases and stop gifting any money to any foreign nation. "
Netanyahu doesn't approve of this message. Neither do Biden, Trump or Harris.
Trump signed the agreement to leave Afghanistan after many years of Bush, Obama, and Obama’s #2 putting the US there then staying. Trump threatened to leave NATO but didn’t. That was a disappointment but at least it started the conversation inside the beltway. And no new wars. It was better than any I can recall post WW2.
I don't think Netanyahu cared whether US was in Afghanistan or not. I'm sure he appreciated the military's involvement in the Afghan heroin trade and was happy that we saw to it that the bulk of the H ended up on Iran's black markets, but he wanted a lot more from us than that. He wanted regime change, like we did for him in Iraq. And not a botched job, either. Replacing a secular, Iran hating dictator with Iran educated Shia clerics.
Biden’s been part of the bullshit over there for several decades. It would be best to let the local figure it out. We had four years of nothing new and agreed to get rid of one.
"It would be best to let the local figure it out. "
The 'local figure' - I suppose you mean Netanyahu - figured it out long ago. Israel can't defeat their neighbors without US aid and eventually military involvement. Time you figured it out too.
"We had four years of nothing new and agreed to get rid of one."
It's been going on for longer than 4 years. I know you are in the tank for Trump, but give it a rest for god's sake, man.
The locals.
Now you are just gaslighting. Back to your, “Spouting nonsense is an end in itself.”
You're not refuting what I write. You have to fall back on bluster and insults like the other morons here.
I claim that Netanyahu long ago realized Israel couldn't defeat her neighbors without US aid and military intervention.
I also claim that the conflict in the middle east wasn't caused by Biden or didn't start with his term.
The locals. You’re not reading.
Netanyahu is a local, isn't he? He lives in Israel. I'm not following. Local to where, exactly? And what exactly is best left to locals to figure out? You can be a little more expansive.
Locals. Perhaps after sarc gets that dictionary, he can loan it to you.
The local being the Lebanese. When they figure out that Israel is at war with them, and by proxy the US.
Already pariahs on the worlds stage, committing a holocaust in Gaza, the stolen apartheid religious nationalist state tail wags the dog.
Stop Israel.
"...Stop Israel..."
FOAD, Nazi scum.
Israel would have dealt with the issues LONG ago if the US did not continually demand they pull back.
Let them do what they deem best.
Israel wouldn’t exist without the hundreds of billions of dollars it has taken from US taxpayers over the last 76 years.
That shitty terrorist religious nationalist state that’s on trial in the UNITED NATIONS for committing genocide in Gaza.
Listen and abide to the UN decisions we are signatory to
OR
Toss aside everything that the UN stands for to renege on our signatory obligations and support with funding, arms and our military lives a holocaust committed by a religious nationalist apartheid state.
“The world stands upon the edge of a knife: Either we travel collectively towards a future of just peace and lawfulness – or hurtle towards anarchy and dystopia, and a world where might makes right.””
The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (UN Human Rights)
September 18, 2024
“The Court has reaffirmed that the realisation of self-determination cannot be left to bilateral negotiations among two unequal and asymmetrical parties – the occupier and the occupied. It called for Israel to immediately cease its illegal settlement activities and withdraw from these areas as swiftly as possible. More importantly, the Court provided unequivocal directions concerning the responsibilities of States and international organisations, with regard to Israel’s unlawful occupation.
Despite these adamant directions, States remain paralysed in the face of the seismic shift represented by the Court’s ruling and appear unwilling or unable to take the necessary steps to meet their obligations.
Devastating attacks on Palestinians across the occupied Palestinian territory show that by continuing to turn a blind eye to the horrific plight of the Palestinian people, the international community is furthering genocidal violence. Gaza remains under siege and intense bombardment, with homes, schools, hospitals and densely populated displacement camps sheltering thousands, routinely attacked. The extent of the resulting environmental destruction and contamination in Gaza are still to be fully assessed. The scale of destruction of Palestinian landscape and urban fabric, including schools and universities, hospitals, the violations of housing, land and property, the pollution and degradation of the environment, and exploitation of natural resources, is extreme in Gaza and spreading across the rest of the occupied territory, prompting allegations of domicide, urbicide, scholasticide, medicide, cultural genocide and, more recently, ecocide. Extreme violence and intimidation against Palestinians in the West Bank, and military assaults against the cities of Jenin, Nablus, Tulkarem Tubas, and in rural areas, where Palestinians practise pastoralism, are all escalating.
States must act now. They must listen to voices calling on them to take action to stop Israel’s attacks against the Palestinians and end its unlawful occupation. All States have a legal obligation to comply with the ICJ’s ruling and must promote adherence to norms that protect civilians. Therefore, States should:
1.Immediately review all diplomatic, political, and economic interactions with Israel to ensure they do not support or provide aid or assistance to its unlawful presence in the occupied Palestinian territory.
2.Abstain from recognising or take steps to reverse any recognition of any changes in the physical character or demographic composition, institutional structure or status of the occupied Palestinian territory, including in their treaty relations with Israel, and while acting as members of international organisations.
3.Take all measures to ensure that the Palestinian people in the occupied Palestinian territory can fully exercise and realise their right to self-determination including by recognition of the State of Palestine.
4.Impose a full arms embargo on Israel, halting all arms agreements, imports, exports and transfers, including of dual-use items that could be used against the Palestinian population under occupation.
5.Ban goods and services emerging from both the colonisation of occupied Palestinian territory and other unlawful activities that may be detrimental to Palestinians’ rights, from entering their territory and markets, and take measures to label and permit goods and services emerging from Palestinian individuals and entities in occupied territory.
6.Cancel or suspend economic relationships, trade agreements and academic relations with Israel that may contribute to its unlawful presence and apartheid regime in the occupied Palestinian territory.
7.Impose sanctions, including asset freezes, on Israeli individuals, entities including businesses, corporations and financial institutions, involved in the unlawful occupation and apartheid regime as well as on any foreign or domestic entities and individuals subject to their jurisdiction that supply goods and services that may aid, assist or enable occupation and apartheid.
8.Prevent all of their citizens who hold dual citizenship with Israel from serving in the Israeli military or other services that contribute to the occupation and apartheid regime or from buying or renting property anywhere in occupied Palestinian territory.
9.Investigate and prosecute those subjects to their jurisdiction, who are involved in crimes in the occupied Palestinian territory, including dual citizens serving in Israel’s military, including mercenaries or those involved in settler violence.
10.Rescind legislation and policies that criminalise and penalise advocacy in support of Palestinian rights to self-determination and non-violent opposition to Israel’s occupation and apartheid, including support for the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement.
11.Disseminate the Court’s findings widely, ensuring that the occupied status of the West Bank including east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, and the illegality of Israel’s presence are reflected in public documents and education systems.
12.Make submissions to the ICC so that it investigates international crimes included in the ICJ opinion.
13.Convene General Assemblies of States parties under the Rome Statute or the Fourth Geneva Convention, to ensure full compliance by all parties in Palestine and Israel with international humanitarian law and international criminal law.
14.Ensure full protection of Palestinians, especially women, children, persons with disabilities, and older persons by establishing a protective presence and ensuring safe and full access for independent experts and mechanisms charged with monitoring and investigating human rights violations and international crimes in the occupied Palestinian territory.
Decisive action is needed. Facing irresponsible inaction by most governments, it is now incumbent upon civil society organisations and National Human Rights Institutions to mobilise and call on their states to comply with the ICJ’s landmark Advisory Opinion. It is time to knock on the doors of every political leader and responsible official ministry across the world to bring an end to Israel’s illegal occupation, apartheid, oppression of, and onslaught against the Palestinian people, and ultimately ensure truth, justice and accountability. We owe this especially to women and children, who have been disproportionately affected by the current catastrophe.
Failure to act now jeopardises the entire edifice of international law and rule of law in world affairs.”
https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements/2024/09/un-experts-warn-international-order-knifes-edge-urge-states-comply-icj-advisory
Refuted
"...the colonisation of occupied Palestinian territory and other unlawful activities that may be detrimental to Palestinians’ rights, from entering their territory and markets.."
Use lies as premises, end up a plie of brain-dead Nazi shot like Misek.
What more evidence than what we already have against Israel, does the world need to act?
Is this the new global reality?
Being a signatory to the United Nations genocide convention is meaningless,
All nations can commit holocausts.
Or is it just JEWS and the US who can get away with genocide.
Depends who you talk to.
Misek, have you recovered from your injuries from last week?
So you're pro-Biden? He not only didn't start any new wars, he got us out of Afghanistan. I never would have thought it of you, Chumby.
he got us out of Afghanistan
Do you ever wonder if Putin's invasion of Ukraine, and the 10/7 massacre were in any way spurred on by Biden's fiasco in Afghanistan?
Which is now spun as a success by morons like Mr. "Conservatives donate to ActBlue!" Nelson
“Do you ever wonder if Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, and the 10/7 massacre were in any way spurred on by Biden’s fiasco in Afghanistan?”
No.
“Which is now spun as a success by morons like Mr. “Conservatives donate to ActBlue!” Nelson”
I have been vocal and unequivocal in saying the withdrawal was an absolute clusterfuck.
And only you and your fellow idiots think donating a cup of coffee to ActBlue has any relevance in the face of the conservative beliefs of the two shooters.
Of course you didn’t. You have a tiny mind with stunted dreams. You’re also a democrat drone and think whatever you’re told to by your elite democrat masters. Without the slightest critical thought going through your primitive little brain.
You’re a retard.
Biden voted to go in Afghanistan, he was then assistant manager there for eight years, then unilaterally extended the deadline so he could have some Sept 11 victory lap presser. The Taliban had other plans and Brandon drone striked eight kids and an aid worker on the way out. Biden-Harris left tens of billions in materiel there. Biden was so bad the UK parliament censured him over it. Merkel and Macron also called him out.
There is the proxy war in eastern Europe that has cost a nation a generation of young men in part due to Biden and BoJo prohibiting Zely from staying with the Minsk agreements. It cost the US hundreds of billions from Biden’s adventurism gifts to a band-era dictator not to mention the unintended consequences of Biden weaponizing the dollar such as more BRICS interest, global south cooling on the US, and death of the petrodollar. Team Biden-Harris is trying quadruple down against a nuclear warning. Russia would have preferred to avoid the situation where the east leaning people of Donbas had been assured more autonomy but instead they received genocide. Biden is on the wrong side of Cuban Missile Crisis and Zimmerman telegraph territory.
"Biden-Harris left tens of billions in materiel there. Biden was so bad the UK parliament censured him over it."
Don't forget the fighting season. ISIS can only carry out suicide bombings when the weather is warm and sunny.
Strawman from the nonsense man. The deaths had gone down outside of the fighting season.
There was also Biden-Harris abandoning the two runway Bagram base that included high risk prisoners that mysteriously vanished afterwards. One escapee after Biden walked out was reportedly behind the later bombing in Kabul that killed almost two hundred people including thirteen American servicemen.
No, the 'fighting season' talking point is a linchpin in the arguments of the pro Trump crowd here. You seem to have forgotten it and I'm taking the liberty of filling in the blanks you left.
"The deaths had gone down outside of the fighting season."
That's the ticket. Yeah, the fighting season.
"There was also Biden-Harris abandoning the two runway Bagram base "
Bagram is in Afghanistan, the country we'd occupied for more than 20 years. I am glad we abandoned it. Trump could have abandoned it himself had he the courage of his convictions.
Yeah, there were fewer US casualties outside of the fighting season. Hence the original schedule that Biden unilaterally extended into the fighting season. A brilliant move on his part.
Trump negotiated the exit after inheriting it from Obama-Biden and Bush-Cheney. Biden unilaterally extended the withdraw to Sept 11 so he could have his big day. The big day ended up looking a lot like the fall of Saigon. People outside of MSM and their declining viewership don’t take kindly to breaking agreements. Afghanistan was one example and eastern Europe is another. Close allies called Biden out on that debacle.
Team Biden isn’t celebrating this time in retrospective. It is nit dissimilar to Carter’s botched rescue mission of the hostages in Iran.
"Yeah, there were fewer US casualties outside of the fighting season."
Because the Taliban, a militia that lives off the land, fight according to a fighting season. But ISIS, an international terrorist outfit, doesn't, and by the time we're discussing, ISIS had supplanted Taliban as the enemy. The ISIS bombing you brought, mentioning the deaths of 13 Americans, fails to note that Taliban militants also died, along side the Americans, providing security at the airport. The fighting season is irrelevant is what I've been trying to say, and I brought it up only as a joke, adding it to the laundry list of lame Biden blaming talking points. And lo and behold, you pick it up and run with it. (It being the fighting season jibe at Joe.)
" The big day ended up looking a lot like the fall of Saigon. "
It's not every day you lose a war, Chumby. As Beckett wrote, Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Perhaps Trump would have lost better. He had his chance, but chose to pass it along to Biden.
"People outside of MSM and their declining viewership don’t take kindly to breaking agreements. "
There was no agreement with ISIS to be broken. Good lord, man, you swallow these bullshit talking points with gusto, don't you. Keep them to yourself, if only to save yourself the embarrassment.
Mtrue, stop lying. You’re just pissed because Chumby is right. Everything he said is correct. So GTFO.
One of the ring leaders of the ISIS bombing was someone reported to have been released by Biden when Biden suddenly walked away from Bagram.
It was an unwinnable war that Biden, having served in congress during the end of South Vietnam, should have had first hand experience knowing to avoid. Biden should have had second hand experience while also in congress during the failed Soviet invasion. But that was going to be different! His vote and support to invade, his continued oversight for eight years (Eight Years!) as VP, then extending the occupation by himself for reasons…while not evacuating Americans set the stage for the disaster.
I’m not sure many would have thought it was going to be a feel good moment for the US at the end of the Bush, Cheney, Hillary, McCain, Biden, et. al. disaster. As Obama has been quoted as saying, “Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up.”
Beckett is dead, as are those people reportedly due to Biden allowing ISIS out of Bagram.
Despite mshitman’s ignorant bluster, the fighting season in Afghanistan is indeed a real phenomenon. The US military finally started scheduling unit rotations around it, at least by 2010-11. Insurgent attacks do go up during that time frame.
Is it the end-all-be-all or “linchpin” as mshitman is trying to strawman? No. But if you’re going to withdraw from the country, which you have been in for 20 years, wouldn’t you try to set yourself up for success in every way possible? This would also include using Bagram.
The problem with Bagram as the evacuation point is that it is 10x further from Kabul than the airport is from Kabul. That's where evacuees were coming from
Two long runways at Bagram and start evacuating months before. Biden-Harris fucked that up so poorly that the UK parliament censured the Democratic Party president.
It was also, unlike Kabul airport. securable. That made it infinitely preferrable.
Bagram not being in the middle of Kabul is another pro, not a con, Mr brainfree.
The problem: the entire thing was a shitshow, from start to finish. The only way it could have been worse is if we'd stayed there for another four years.
"And no new wars"
Here are the goalposts you set in your post. I merely pointed out that Biden not only didn't start any new wars, he did what Trump didn't (got us out of Afghanistan).
Gee, I wonder why you moved those goalposts so hard..
Biden didn't start any wars besides giving Putin the green light for a 'limited invasion into Ukraine.' Besides giving Iran, twice, the green light to attack Israel.
Yeap, leaving billions of dollars of equipment, abandoning US citizens and allies in Afghanistan was great!
Harris said we don't have any military in a war zone which is news to the troops.
You know defending your team at all costs makes you an idiot. I know it was too late because you already were an idiot.
Biden is sharp as a tack. Harris hasn't lied for years about him. He's doing a great job on wars, hurricanes, and aliens
"Biden didn’t start any wars"
Correct. Biden has no power in Russia. Putin was going into Ukraine no matter what. He doesn't give a shit what an American President thinks or does.
"Besides giving Iran, twice, the green light to attack Israel."
What the fuck are you talking about? We literally helped Israel stop the Iranian attack.
"Yeap, leaving billions of dollars of equipment, abandoning US citizens and allies in Afghanistan was great!"
Nope. And I never claimed otherwise. Quite the opposite, I have been 100% on the "this couldn't have possibly been any worse and the fact that it was Trump's plan doesn't make the slightest difference" side. It was a shitshow from the jump.
"Harris said we don’t have any military in a war zone which is news to the troops."
I think that's probably a "technically true, but only technically" statement. We don't have troops on the ground in a war zone, but we do have advisors and trainers in Ukraine, for example. But it isn't some wildly unlikely statement.
"You know defending your team at all costs makes you an idiot."
I don't have a team. I am a split-ticket voting independent. Until a Tea Party whackjob beat him in a primary, I was a Mike Castle voter and supporter.
I am, however, 100% against Trump because he has been awful (or worse) at everyhting he's done except Project Warp Speed.. I am 100% against the anti-liberty culture war nonsense of today's GOP. I am 100% against pre-viability abortion bans and 100% against deficit spending.
Bring back the GOP that existed before Trump and I'll be back to split-ticket voting for national races. I've always split my votes locally, especially for treasurer and county executive.
"Biden is sharp as a tack."
No, he isn't. Neither 80-year-old white guy was, but fortunately the less-sharp old guy dropped out.
"Harris hasn’t lied for years about him."
Lied about what? Be specific with your accusation, please.
"He’s doing a great job on wars, hurricanes, and aliens"
Wars, yes. Hurricanes, yes. Aliens? I don't care about UFOs.
But if you mean illegal immigration, no. We need to make major reforms to our immigration system, but building a wall in a world full of ladders is a stupid plan and collosally wasteful spending wrapped into one. But no, Biden is not strong on illegal immigration.
If Trump miraculously overcomes Democrat cheating and wins, he needs to shed his advisory team of all the war-mongering neocons, including his idiot son-in-law Kushner as well as Pompeo. God help him if he ever lets Bolton through the White House doors again. We are beyond bankrupt and need to spend what meager money we have on our own internal needs.
Trump seems eminently bribable. Entrusting your internal needs to such a conman as Trump or Biden seems the height of folly.
Why would a man with Trump’s money be “eminently bribable”? That doesn't even make sense.
When Joe Biden, Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi got into politics they were all thousandaires, and made their millions while in office.
Trump on the other hand entered politics with $4.5 billion and lost $2 billion during that time. Literally the opposite of anyone else in DC.
We know why the Big Guy would take 10%, because politics are the family business. But why would Trump bother with a million dollar bribe? It’s not worth his time.
"Why would a man with Trump’s money be “eminently bribable”? That doesn’t even make sense."
Probably because he is a terrible businessman (Treasuries have a better ROI since he inherited half a billion dollars from his dad) with massive outstanding debts to service and a decreasing ability to grift from his marks ... I mean supporters.
I would say you should stop getting your talking points from Act Blue, but don't want to call you a conservative.
Only an idiot thinks a $15 protest donation to ActBlue has any weight in counterbalancing the actual beliefs of a person.
Well, an idiot or someone who really, really, really doesn't want to accept that "conservative" and "violently opposed to Donald Trump" are highly compatible beliefs to hold.
You understand that Trump isn't the litmus test for conservative beliefs, right? It's quite easy to be an ideological conservative and hate Trump.
Can you accept that?
Hummm, how did Sanders get rich? What about Biden?
President Biden and first lady Jill Biden have a net worth of about $10 million - on a teacher and government employee salary.
Seems legit right?
Joe was a US Senator since he turned 30 and Jill was a professor, not a teacher. Both jobs have a decent salary and Joe's benefits were amazing. 200k a year in household income in the 70s makes saving and investing a breeze.
If you actually invest wisely and live simply (which anyone who knows anything about Biden knows he did), have platinum health insurance that costs you nothing, have an amazing retirement plan, and don't spend money on tacky gold toilets, it's pretty easy.
"Why would a man with Trump’s money be “eminently bribable”? That doesn’t even make sense."
It doesn't have to make sense. Do you think his obsession with and extreme sensitivity to crowd sizes makes sense? Is it worth his time?
Mtrue, you’re a lying retard. Trump isn’t bribable. History has proven that.
So fuck off. Maybe look into suicide.
trueman seems totally full of shit.
They should throw candy to children and sing a rousing chorus of Auld Lang Syne. Then they can book a ticket on the next ship home and click their heels twice. Once the bell rings and the angel gets its wings, we will be back in Kansas again.
It's now hard to pretend that the vision is anything less than a regime change campaign on the scale that old-fashioned neoconservatives could only dream of.
Huh?
After Israeli forces stormed Beirut, the Lebanese capital, they successfully installed their ally, Bachir Gemayel, as prime minister and forced the Palestine Liberation Organization to withdraw from the country. (U.S. Marines were sent to oversee the Palestinian withdrawal.) But Gemayel was assassinated by one of his own countrymen, and a new militia called Hezbollah emerged to fight both the Israeli and U.S. presence.
This is a rather factually-incomplete rendition and/or contravened by the facts retcon.
Namely:
- He was their ally, but he won. They didn't install him.
- The PLO was going out either way.
- He was like the second or third member of the family to have an assassination attempt against him for his moderate and/or pragmatic position.
For all the re-interpretation of The Abraham Accords being cast at the former Trump Administration, you sure don't seem to have a problem revising more factual history in support of violent religious and nationalist ideologues.
And the Marines weren't sent "to oversee the palestinian withdrawal" so much as sent to provide additional peacekeeping so that Arafat would agree to leave Lebanon in the first place. There was no plan for what to do with the remaining Palestinians when Arafat went to Lybia.
Hezbollah came out of the refugee camps and the slaughter at Shatila (done by Lebanese militias, but the Israelis didn't stop them) which was a response to the slaughter of Christians half a dozen years earlier. Sharon was in command of the Israeli army and wouldn't let the refugees leave during the slaughter, which was a dick move. But the whole mess was part of the power vacuum from the civil war, and the growth of Hezbollah was from those events, Syrians and Syrian money, and then Iranian money taking advantage of the radicalization opportunity.
note: Nobody wanted the Palestinians, which is why they were in refugee camps in Lebanon. Jordan didn't want them because they'd take out the king, they were toxic worldwide after the Munich olympics massacre, and had completely painted themselves into a corner, with no easy solution to the refugees anywhere. Syria was happy to leave them in Lebanon and causing Israel trouble by proxy.
in other words, it was WAY more complex than Petti's retcon.
in other words, it was WAY more complex than Petti’s retcon.
And I could totally understand a "Narratives are muddled, good/bad people on several sides, but this is my take." interpretation, but that doesn't support the foregone conclusion of his propagandizing double-speak.
Taken altogether it comes across as very "And then, for no particular reason at all, the German people voted for Adolf Hitler to bomb Pearl Harbor."
Hezbollah came out of the refugee camps and the slaughter at Shatila
Shatila was the Palestinian refugee camp. Sabra was the Shiite neighborhood of Beirut that Shatila was in. Both places were where the massacre happened.
Hezbollah is Shiite and Lebanese not Sunni or Christian Palestinian.
You're right that that massacre was what created Hezbollah.
Petti is a retard. So... Of course he's going to get shit tragically incorrect.
Reason is desperate and flailing. They are going full kitchen sink in their Koch funded efforts against Trump.
Insanely. Embarrassingly. To the point that, if I'm someone like Liz, I'd almost be wondering if I or anyone at the magazine will be getting a paycheck in December.
First the Israelis wanted the Palestinians out of Israel. Then they wanted them out of Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon and anywhere else within 1000 miles. And they will turn any place that has Palestinians into a wasteland.
It’s not a stretch to realize that the Palestinians are – in Biblical terms – Amalek. The permanent enemy who provide a permanent reason to stay on a war footing and keep it active. Israelis are even being taught that Palestinians are responsible for the Holocaust
The Palestinians are good boys and didn't do nuttin', then?
They have a wretched history of picking fights with the Israelis that they cannot win and trying for the extra mile when they get more favorable terms for peace then should be able to expect.
And the Jordanians, and the Lebanese, ...
There's a fucking million good reasons why NO ONE wants the Palestinians.
"There’s a fucking million good reasons why NO ONE wants the Palestinians."
Who wants Palestinians is not the issue. Israel is bound to take in and provide for Palestinians whether they want to or not. It's part of the treaties and international agreements the Israelis signed on to when they became an officially recognized state. With those rights come responsibilities, and humane treatment of refugees is one of those responsibilities.
"...It’s part of the treaties and international agreements the Israelis signed on to when they became an officially recognized state..."
Which were immediately voided when the Arabs attacked; trueman's sophistry and outright lying know no bounds.
FOAD, asshole.
If you want the Boot, Max wants you.
This is kind of ridiculous. All the Abraham Accords did was establish that Israel and its Arab neighbors would normalize relations, putting aside the issue of the Palestinian conflict. The underlying calculus was that the U.S. imbroglio in Iraq had empowered Iran to the point that the Arab neighbors needed to focus eastward toward Iran. There's nothing in that agreement that obligates the U.S. to anything in the region (Biden's stupid security guarantee rhetoric is not binding), despite what Jared Kushner and a bunch of Israeli politicians want to believe. Hell, the stuff I've heard out of the Israeli and Arab leadership is that America was a late-signer on the agreement.
And after years of telling us that an Iranian nuclear threat was mostly a bogeyman, trying to trot it out to attack an agreement is just silly.
" All the Abraham Accords did was establish that Israel and its Arab neighbors would normalize relations, putting aside the issue of the Palestinian conflict"
Americans never seem to learn. Back in the the 80s when the Americans were still refusing to officially recognize the PLO, and Hamas didn't exist, Reagan tried to organize a regional peace deal between Israel and her neighbors. Also 'putting aside the Palestinians' - essentially ignoring them, and negotiating over their heads. But the Palestinians weren't having it. They hijacked a luxury liner, the Achille Lauro, and murdered an American passenger/hostage. Leon Klinghoffer was the man's name. A tense situation ensued but was eventually resolved with Reagan caving in and officially recognizing the PLO. They would henceforth be given a seat at the table at any future talks regarding their future. The Abraham
Accords are essentially a replay with a change of actors. Americans can dabble in middle east politics but they really should stick to places where they are willing to learn the lessons of their muddles.
A tense situation ensued but was eventually resolved with Reagan caving in and officially recognizing the PLO. They would henceforth be given a seat at the table at any future talks regarding their future. The Abraham
What exactly was that tense situation?
"What exactly was that tense situation?"
The tense situation that arises in any hijacking/hostage crisis the US is involved in. It's a matter of life or death, and careers and reputations are on the line. You can research it if you are interested in the details. Your probing questions indicate you are.
So, what I am getting from you mtrue, is that Israel should just kill every last "Palestinian" and eliminate the problem.
Pretty harsh...yet fair.
" is that Israel should just kill every last “Palestinian” and eliminate the problem."
That seems to be the position of Biden and Trump. Full support of Israel's genocide. I agree that it is harsh, but I don't see the fairness. The Palestinians were not born Jewish - nobody deserves death for the crime of being gentile.
They deserve it for their habit of killing Jews.
We're not going to lose much if those Jordanians...oops, "Palestinians" are no longer around
"We’re not going to lose much"
It's not the issue, how much we lose. It's doing the right thing that counts. Genocide is a war crime and we shouldn't be supporting it or assisting in carrying it out. Just out of curiosity, are there any other war crimes you favor, or have you not yet thought it out fully? I assume you support rape and torture of Palestinians, but anything else?
Well, it wouldn't be a 'genocide'.
Invading Arabs are not in any danger of being wiped out. And that is what 'palestinians' are. There are plenty of Arabs, keeping Arabic cultures and people going.
And as an added bonus, there are Palestinians who are Israeli citizens, living and working with other Israeli citizens.
So you just get rid of the ones who can't seem to grasp the idea that wanton murder is a bad thing and the sane ones will keep 'Palestinian' going.
Problem solved.
"Invading Arabs are not in any danger of being wiped out. And that is what ‘palestinians’ are. "
An Arab is a speaker of Arabic. Palestinian is a native of Palestine. Two different things. One is a language, the other is a geographic location.
"So you just get rid of the ones who can’t seem to grasp the idea that wanton murder is a bad thing and the sane ones will keep ‘Palestinian’ going."
Armed resistance to military occupation is not murder. It's recognized as legitimate under international law and custom.
All the Abraham Accords did was establish that Israel and its Arab neighbors would normalize relations, putting aside the issue of the Palestinian conflict.
The Abraham Accords were ENTIRELY about the Gulf states creating an alliance with the US. They don't give a shit about Israel (and vice versa). To them, the cost of an alliance with the US was to recognize Israel. The only way in their view to hold the US to that alliance commitment was to tie Israel in because they also understand that the US doesn't give a shit about the Arab states but is Israel's poodle.
The Israelis I've spoken to had something good to say about the Accords. Flying from Tel Aviv to New Delhi or Bangkok used to be expensive and inconvenient. With the accords, Israelis - typically young backpackers just completing their military service - could stopover in Dubai on their way east. It was much cheaper and convenient.
"The Abraham Accords were ENTIRELY about the Gulf states creating an alliance with the US."
And yet oddly enough the accords didn't have the US as a signatory. Just Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Israel and Bahrain. Both of whom already had shitloads of agreements with the US from military to economic.
The lies you make up to justify your rage, J(ew)Free, are always baffling.
" Just Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Israel and Bahrain."
That's their failure. The big prize was Saudi Arabia. The al Aqsa Flood put the kibosh on that. As it stands the accords managed to save young Israelis a few shekels on their travel arrangements, and little else besides.
“…the US doesn’t give a shit about the Arab states but is Israel’s poodle.”
There’s the old Jew hate inspired conspiracy thinking..
Pompeo is one of those End-Times Armageddon-loving nut jobs so his goal has been some Apocalyptic nuclear war to usher the Second Coming. But the Iranian Non nuclear treaty was an impediment to this wet dream of his. Luckily Donnie played useful idiot and green lit the Iranian nuclear program.
The stage is set for their imaginary Final Conflict. War boners are near full mast.
Your comment on Pompeo is purely speculative and unsupported by anything he has said or written. Your comment that Trump "greenlit the Iranian nuclear program" is ridiculous. Please explain your logic with examples.
You’re gonna be waiting a while.
Have you met the pedo? He just pushes TPM/media Matters/Schiff narratives.
Very polite - certainly not the norm here.
Pompeo -
Mr. Pompeo talks about the rapture. "We will continue to fight these battles," he said at a "God and Country Rally" in 2015, because there is a "never-ending struggle" until "the rapture."
...
"Be part of it," he said at the meeting, at the Summit church in Wichita, Kan. "Be in the fight."
...
In November, Mr. Pompeo told a reporter for The New York Times Magazine that the Bible "informs everything I do." The reporter noticed an open Bible in his office, with a Swiss Army knife marking his place at the end of the book of Queen Esther.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/30/us/politics/pompeo-christian-policy.html
This mumbo-jumbo has no place in international policy. If I offended your religion I apologize. This is "Reason" - Free minds is in the motto.
"Until the rapture."
So standard Christian. No where in your quote does he say it is occurring soon.
Another pedo fail.
There are flavors of Christianity that believe they can hasten the rapture by creating war in the holy land.
No there aren’t. In fact all think it’s the height of blasphemy and wickedness to try and immanentize the eschaton. That's Satan and the Antichrist's job they believe.
But since you’ll insist otherwise because you heard some Reddit anti-theist say so, I’ll ask you to name one.
Name one Christian denomination that believes they can hasten the “rapture” by creating war in the “holy land”.
It’s called Dispensationalism. Everyone who reads the Left Behind series – 65 million sold. Everyone who reads the Scofield Bible. Any megachurch whose pastor went to Dallas Seminary. Jerry Falwell and John Hagee for two notable names. John Hagee’s organization – Christians for Israel has 10 million members
Mother's Lament does have a point here. Most mainstream Christians, Anglicans, Lutherans etc, including the Catholics view the rapture as a heresy. Believers are mostly nondenominational.
All of which are in the West and none of which think Arab Christians really exist.
"...Very polite – certainly not the norm here..."
"Polite" is a waste when dealing with lying piles of lefty shit like you.
Pluggo is too stupid to articulate much of anything. With the exception of how much he loves sodomizing young children.
Pompeo is part of the war-mongering deep state and should not be part of Trump’s 2nd term team.
Agree. Pompeo was mostly loyal to Trump's mostly anti war agenda. But he is a full on neocon and can't be trusted not to pursue own agenda. Trump needs to do better this time.
Previous Petti articles:
"Could Kamala Harris Be an Anti-War Candidate?"
"At the Republican National Convention, War Is Peace"
"Trump and Vance's Foreign Policy Is More War Disguised As Anti-War"
Anyone want to give me odds on his vote?
nobody would take the bet. His bent is modern progressive standard, and he does way more than provide a vote. He provides propaganda.
Petri is another leftist traitor.
EL OH EL.
Where does Reason find these dildo eating writers?
From whatever cesspool contains the all the slithering leftist columnists
Institutional capture by the left.
Any prestigious J-School?
At the cocktail parties.
the U.S. government believes that Iran could build a nuclear bomb within several months but has not yet made the decision to do so.
Iran has been 'within several months' of building nukes for going on several (or at least two) decades now. They are going to regret not building them while they had the chance.
You do tell the stupidest lies. Why would Obama have negotiated the agreement with Iran to stop researching the program if they were just several months away from having a working bomb?
Iran has had a nuclear program since before Obama was born – under American auspices. In the early 70’s, the goal was to construct 23 reactors by 2000. After 1979 with the first two reactors a year or so from opening, the US pressured everyone to stop supplying nuclear material. Which is when Iran realized they would have to enrich their own supply. In 1984, the Germans first reported that Iran was two years from having enough HEU for a bomb.
Iran has known how to build a bomb for many decades. Those agreements are about how to get material for reactors – and the fear is - bombs
As an aside, this is why nuclear power is no solution for clean energy. Supply is far more politically controlled than oil.
Kushner wrote his essay
Hahaha. Sure he wrote it.
Good God, this is the most convoluted, tortured argument I've ever seen. A week out from the anniversary of the terrorist state of "Palestine" (read: Iran) carrying out butchery and atrocity we rarely see in the modern age, no less.
And in response, Israel has carried out the most surgical, casualty-minimizing response the world has ever seen. But instead, "Reason" is going to take the stance that the Accords - which predate the butchers of Palestine slaughtering (and worse) innocents) are to blame for increasing violence.
You know what? I'm glad Israel has let its dogs off the leash. Honestly, if they were being completely indiscriminate between terrorists and civilians, I'd probably still support it at this point - precisely because of garbage like this. Israel knows that the American government/media is against them. They're on their own.
Enough with the ceasefire and peace talks, Israel - go on and do what's been long overdue. Kill every Islamic radical and destroy every Iranian proxy state you can. And then turn the nukes on Iran itself.
According to conservatives, the Abraham Accords were a signature accomplishment of Trump foreign policy. I've never understood why, but supposedly it was an amazing Middle East triumph.
It has changed nothing. It certainly hasn't helped prevent war and conflict in the Middle East. It hasn't done anything and no one should have expected it to. Because it was a useless and pointless document that Trump trumpeted (which should have been the first clue it was garbage) because he pushes useless and pointless things as qwesome all the time. It's his brand.
The pro-Palestinians and the faux sophisticates, such as Petri, always hated the Abraham Accords. The ugly fact is they’d rather see perpetual conflict than a peace not predicated on the wishes of the Palestinians. But, you never get a peace as long as the Palestinians have a veto over the Arab states’ making peace. As long as they can count on continuing support from the Arab states, their incentive is to continue to demand the same maximalist “solution” they’ve been demanding and Israel has been rejecting for the last 55 years. Honestly, the best thing for the Palestinians would probably be the Arab states agreeing in concert to a peace with Israel and throw them under the bus. At least then, their leaders might have to come to terms with the idea of coexistence with a Jewish state.
The conflict in the middle east is between Israel and the Palestinians. It's not between the accord signatories like Morocco or Bahrain. A peace agreement between nations that are not at war, is nothing to boast about, especially considering the raging conflict on Israel's border that continues and grow worse, while the accords do absolutely nothing to address it.
It takes those countries out of the conflict. They’re no longer providing aid and support to the one of the belligerents.
An agreement removing the U.S. from the Ukraine war wouldn’t be significant?
"It takes those countries out of the conflict."
They were not in the conflict. Taking a country out of a conflict it isn't involved with in the first place is about as vacuous an exercise I can think of at the moment. For goodness sake's man, they're US puppets. The conflict was and remains between Israel and Palestine. Resolving that conflict would be something to brag about. Between Morocco and Israel? Not at all.
"An agreement removing the U.S. from the Ukraine war wouldn’t be significant?"
An agreement between who and who? The US is capable of unilaterally removing itself from the conflict in Ukraine, isn't it? There are no treaty obligations, after all. But Democrats and Republicans seem willing to stay involved.
There’s only one belligerent re Israel and Palestinians. The US supplies one side, the black market supplies the other.
Hell the easiest way to get arms into the global black market is to buy in the US and cross the border. Not the cheapest though. That is those areas where the US is fighting permawars - Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
Easy to forget Iran is totally non-involved.
Totally easy to forget.
Well, if you try hard enough.
How much do you think Iran supplies to Hamas?
brainfree's "the black market" does a lot of heavy lifting there.
It’s pretty funny that, as soon as I note the pro-Palestinians and faux sophisticates hate the idea of Israel normalizing relations with its Arab neighbors without giving the Palestinians a veto, the usual suspects show up to prove me exactly right.
Exactly
With or without a peace deal with the Palestinians, it's an empty exercise. If the events of the past year haven't made that clear to you, then I just don't know. You are impervious to facts.
The USA needs to stop trying to be the policeman in the world. We are causing as much havoc and we are preventing. Having a big stick to protect yourself is one thing, but if you are constantly swinging it, then you are nothing more than a bully.
I don't advocate isolationism, but we have been at a constant state of war since WWII even though our government is dishonest and has not formally declared war for any war since WWII. I don't want to be involved in any conflict over 30 days for an emergency unless there is a formal declaration of war.
I don't pretend that Trump is anti-war, but he is less pro-war than the Biden regime which Vice President Kamala Harris is a member of.
"he is less pro-war than the Biden regime"
Maybe so. Certainly Trump's rhetoric has some nods to the anti-war camp, but he actions speak otherwise. He surrounds himself with war hawks like Bolton, Pompeo, and the like, and he's either too weak or too feckless to reign them in.
"...he actions speak otherwise..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
FOAD, asshole.
OK, this is remarkably stupid: What paved the way for total war in the Middle East was two successive Democratic administrations deciding that the best thing they could do was to airdrop billions of dollars to terrorist sponsors in the Middle East.
I mean, you give Iran several tens of billions of dollars, what do you expect them to spend it on? Promoting peace?
Billions of dollars over several years for a country that has a GDP of almost half a trillion? The phrase "rounding error" comes to mind.
Iran has always had the resources to fund their proxy armies. Nothing Obama or Biden did changed that.
Do you really think that Iran wasn't able to fund their terrorist proxies until they got a few billion dollars unfrozen, are you?
Even if you made it $10 billion instead of $6 billion, that would only be about 2% of their annual GDP.
The unfrozen funds made absolutely no difference in Iran's behavior. And you know it.
Slippin' & Sliden
Is the world slipping and sliding towards nuclear war while Americans argue over killing the unborn still in the womb? Remember, World War One began over a letter of apology after the assassination of an Archduke.
It has been said that to be an enemy of these United States is dangerous. To be a friend is fatal.
The Biden/Harris response to the Iranian attacks against Israel has been less than enthusiastic. If anything, Harris would seem to lean towards the so-called Palestinians for domestic, political purposes despite her husband being a Jew of The Left or maybe because of it.
The only way to destroy the Iranian nuclear factory is with blockbuster bombs, which Biden/Harris refuse to give to Israel, being more worried about "Innocent lives" among the enemy than the survival of our ally. In assessing that position, we might recall Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well as Dresden 1945.
As a nation, these United States have lost their sense of direction as we slip and slide farther down into the depths of depravity. That a dim-witted ignoramus like Kamala even could secure the Democratic nomination let alone be the possible winner of the presidency testifies to how lost this nation has become. Her being elected while pounding the gavel for abortion will signal the end of the American Century.
Reason - democrats great. Trump, and now Vance are wrong on everything.
Ignore democrat lies. Ignore to save democracy we have to elect someone that never received a vote, won't do interviews, can't string a sentence together without help, and has no polices.
Chemjeff, Sarc, Shrike, Nelson, wet themselves reading the articles.
I was born in a middle class family