ABC's Moderators Failed to Fact-Check Kamala Harris
Either fact-check both candidates or don't bother.

This week's first and possibly only debate between Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump was not nearly as consequential as the June debate, which ended President Joe Biden's political career. It also differed in another key way: The moderation was incredibly one-sided and unfair.
You are reading Free Media from Robby Soave and Reason. Get more of Robby's on-the-media, disinformation, and free speech coverage.
This was not true of the previous debate, between Biden and Trump. CNN's Jake Tapper and Dana Bash asked questions but did not interrupt or attempt to fact-check the candidates—they left that to Trump and Biden. Such an approach is preferable; politicians make so many incorrect statements that if the moderators really felt the need to intervene every single time, debates would devolve into showdowns between the moderators and each candidate, which isn't the point. There are also frequent examples of moderators asserting that a given claim is abjectly false when it may be complicated, ambiguous, or a case where reasonable minds disagree.
ABC's David Muir and Linsey Davis thrice followed a remark by Trump with an attempt to fact-check him. These fact-checks introduced valid, conflicting information; Trump said violence in the U.S. was out of control and the moderators pointed to FBI data that contradicts this, and Trump said that Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, were eating pets—a completely erroneous claim.
But when Harris made statements that could have been fact-checked, the moderators declined to do so.
Harris said that Trump had threatened there would be a "bloodbath" if he lost the election, and Harris implied that this was a threat of actual political violence; the moderators could have pointed out that Trump was describing the state of the economy under prospective progressive governance. Harris also said there were currently no U.S. military service members in active combat zones; this is flatly untrue, as American troops are currently serving in informal war zones in places like Iraq and Syria.
Then there was bias reflected in the kinds of questions the candidates were asked. Trump was deservedly grilled on his appalling conduct surrounding the 2020–2021 presidential transition, and comments he made about Harris' race. Meanwhile, Harris fielded zero questions about her complicity in the vast cover-up of Biden's cognitive decline and infirmity. When she declined to give specific reasons for her flip-flopping on fracking—or even concede that she has flip-flopped—the moderators did not follow up.
Trump largely failed to elucidate his vision for making the country a better place, and for that he has no one to blame but himself. Still, this debate was often a three-on-one affair, and there's no reason for that. Future debates should stick to the CNN model.
Raining Cats and Dogs
During the debate, Trump gestured at a viral claim on X and asserted that Haitian migrants living in Springfield, Ohio, are stealing and eating pet dogs and cats.
Springfield police have said there are no reports of stolen pets. Just because the police are not paying attention to an issue doesn't mean it's made up, but it should also be emphasized that there are no credible claims of pet-eating being made on social media. The one cited instance of a person accused of eating a neighbor's pet cat did not involve a Haitain migrant and did not take place in Springfield.
Springfield residents have claimed that the migrants hunted wild ducks and geese, killing and perhaps eating them. If people are not respecting the rules of the commons, local authorities should do something about it. But this is obviously a far milder problem. Killing people's pets is wrong; killing wild birds is not. Duck-hunting isn't even some specifically Haitian custom, as conservatives well know.
AI-generated memes of Trump protecting ducks and kittens have gone very viral on social media lately. It's fine to laugh at these. But anyone who truly believes that pets are routinely abducted in small-town America by gangs of migrants has fallen for a hoax.
Alien Transition
On the other side, some commentators who correctly identified Trump's citation of the Haitian pet-eaters as fake news nevertheless failed to note that a second wild-seeming claim—about Harris' support for gender-affirming care for detained illegal immigrants—was actually true.
"Trump made history last night for sure," wrote The New Yorker's Susan Glasser on X. "Who will ever forget him ranting on stage about immigrants eating people's dogs? Or insisting that the Vice President 'wants to do transgender operations on illegal aliens that are in jail'?"
But as CNN's Andrew Kaczynski reported earlier this week, Harris did in fact support this policy. In 2019, she answered a questionnaire from the American Civil Liberties Union indicating that she would support paying for detained migrants to undergo gender transition surgery.
TIME magazine must have missed the CNN story. In a write-up of the debate, TIME knocked Trump for accusing Harris of supporting such a policy. Finally, the magazine had to add a correction, making clear that their own fact-check needed a fact-check.
— Jesse Singal (@jessesingal) September 11, 2024
This Week on Free Media
Amber Duke joins me to discuss Harris' policies, the war on Elon Musk, Bernie Sanders admitting that Kamala has flip-flopped, and the Democratic Party welcoming the Cheney family into the fold.
Worth Watching
I neglected to mention last week that I saw Wolverine and Deadpool… and it was great! While the MCU has gone totally off the rails since Avengers: Endgame, this film succeeded in making me excited for whatever comes next. The movie did a particularly good job incorporating aspects of the Loki series on Disney+, including the Time Variance Authority—enforcers of peace throughout the multiverse—and the Void, where time-displaced variant heroes live out their days.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Just because they aren't eating pets doesn't mean they aren't eating strays or the ducks.
Fake but accurate, right?
#NotALeftist
Maybe not, but he's become a totalitarian apologist through butthurt and peevishness... and is definitely a Democrat.
Totalitarians love victimhood.
You do?
You need to learn your vocabulary. VULGAR MADMAN is not a totalitarian.
To be fair the city manager in Springfield could have a stack three feet deep of complaints regarding people of all kinds of ethnicities eating pets in front of the owners with dozens of full color glossy photos to prove it and he's going to tell CNN that nothing of the sort is happening. I mean, what city manager anywhere in the world is going to admit to a news agency that people are eating other peoples pets in his city?
Not to mention that it's not like he has to worry that CNN is going to send out reporters to verify his claim. He gave them what they wanted to hear.
Your "To be fair" crack rings as hollow as an empty peanut shell. The media have been all over Springfield before and since the debate, uncovering no evidence to substantiate Trump's pet eating rants.
Fact check: peanut shells don't ring.
Also everything you said was complete bullshit lol.
No proof is proof of a coverup.
I like how you just listen to dems and government officials as truth while ignoring citizens talking at a town hall. Shows your priorities. Lol.
Think about your conspiracy. A bunch of citizens of the town got together to make up a shit ton of stories with no unified reason to do so.
Vs.
Town officials seeking to downplay problems for the choices they make. Even though we've seen them lie about issues across the country.
Hilarious.
Trust government demands sarc.
I like how you attack me with rehearsed arguments against the voices in your head while you commute back and forth to your government contracting “job”.
Wish I could charge rent.
Maybe you'd be better off listening to podcasts, and learning something.
I'd recommend "Words and Numbers" as a starter. Reintroduce you to economics. Not sure how you'll dismiss that one by attacking the hosts. Heaton's podcast "Political Orphanage" is quite good. I know you like to dismiss him because he's a comedian, but I think comedians are great because they're not afraid to expose uncomfortable truths. I'm sure you'll dismiss "Freakonomics" because it's carried by NPR, but I think it's good.
Or you can rant and rave against arguments that exist solely in your head while learning nothing about what the people you hate (and let's face it, you really hate me) actually think.
You are so fucking stupid.
Fact Check: This is true.
When have I made this argument before. That is the summation of your post. Lol.
There is no proof that would satiate you. Citizen testimony is obviously not proof to you. Trust government. Suck the state dick. We get it.
Not even pictures or police calls regarding the issues. Trust government. Dems told you to Trust them. Trust them.
See your post here.
https://reason.com/2024/09/12/abcs-moderators-failed-to-fact-check-kamala-harris/?comments=true#comment-10721873
I’m confused. Are we accepting the proof the City Manager provided or are we accepting the proof the citizens are providing through their complaints at town hall meetings?
If you want to be honest about it, you'll note it was one person who made the claim in a single town hall, yet there was absolutely no support for the claim found. If you believe in the "one guy said" standard of proof, this is your winner
If you know that public officials lying about reports and investigations (not the "ongoing investigation" dodge, specifically saying "no credible evidence") is definitely some combination of career-ending, illegal, easily-confirmed, or subject to a lawsuit (usually all three), "city manager told the truth" will be your winner.
I dearly hope I know which side you'll come down on. You aren't usually one of the unhinged ones like Jesse, Mother, and the various paleocon Nazis that clutter up the joint, so it's a decent chance I'm right.
You claim there is absolutely no evidence, but that isn't true. The burden of proof lies on the accuser.
You're just reiterating sarc with his whole "trust us government officials" shtick. Never mind the fact that those investigations you bring up are suspect to grave error.
You lie in wait to deceive. Repent, Nelson.
The Nazis didn’t find proof of the holocaust either.
Ask Misek.
Misek and the Holocaust is a very good analogy to any Trumpkin and the cat-eating story.
Not so. The Nazis claim there was no Holocaust when there clearly was. Trump's claim of the Haitian migrants has not been disproven; as anyone with a brain knows, it is massively difficult to prove a negative, no matter how badly the media want to claim otherwise.
If anyone wants to refute Nelson elsewhere, be my guest.
The Nazis didn't get to investigate themselves like the various agencies of the United States Government get to or else they could have made that one stick.
Media looking for evidence. You slay me.
Ah yes, because the "media" have never ever ever been caught in a bare faced lie. No government official of any level of government has ever lied. They are all the most trustworthy people ever and only a fool would ever doubt any level of government.
(Cough. Cough) MK ULTRA (Cough)
Trump didn’t lie. The fact that there is no proof to back up his allegations is simply proof of a massive coverup. Everything from the election being stolen to gangs of Haitian savages roaming the streets of Springfield and killing housepets is all true. It’s true because there’s no proof, and no proof means that everyone else is in on a conspiracy to cover it up. Everyone. They’re all against poor, poor Trump. He’s such a victim. Really. He’s the true victim here. People fact-checked him, and only evil defenders of the other team do that. Fact-checking is proof of a coverup. It’s all a coverup.
Or is this one of those cases where we ignore what Trump said and focus on his record? Well, except for everything he did as president during a national emergency. His handling of that doesn’t count. Besides, Democrats! Look! Over there! Democrats!
I'm not saying it is going on or that Trump is right. I'm saying that a phone call by CNN to a city manager isn't proof of anything. Just like the FBI saying violent crime rates are down is meaningless since they've been caught lying so often. So their "fact checking" is bullshit. Liars lying about lies isn't fact checking. It's just several layers of liars lying.
Abc, not cnn.
It was on CNN. Wasn't it?
The citizens are all liars. Trust government. You just objected but here you are confirming it.
I’m really trying to understand his position.
It isn't difficult. His position is how does it affect Trump. If it hurts him, that is the position he takes.
"The citizens are all liars."
You know it was only one guy who made the claim, right? Or do you just not care?
#onetruelibertarianforauthoritarianmarxism
Fake? Illegal Haitians have been caught walking down the street with dead geese in their hands (police call to prove it) and eating cats (actual video of this).
If I took a goose out of season the very least I would get would be a hunting out of season and hunting without a license ticket. Killing animals in public parks is always against the law.
Well let's take a look, shall we?
First, the Hatians in Springfield, OH are legal, not illegal immigrants.
Second, the picture of the man (who was not a Hatian, immigrant or otherwise) with the dead goose in a public park was from Columbus, not Springfield.
Third, there was no credible call to police about a Hatian walking down the street in Springfield carrying a dead goose.
Fourth, there was no video of a Hatian eating a cat in Springfield, period.
Finally, if there were someone who killed a goose out of season or in a public park, they would absolutely have been doing something illegal. But the police have found no evidence of hunting out of season (of is it hunting without a license?)
So except for the evidence part, the illegal immigrant part, the Hatian part, the cat part (actually, pets of any kind), and the Springfield, OH part, Trump was telling the truth.
So what does that leave us?
A single person at a single town hall made a claim without any evidence (and no evidence has ever been found that makes it seem even a little bit credible). Someone may, possibly, have killed a wild goose without a license, perhaps in a public park, perhaps in Springfield (or maybe Columbus), but there is no evidence of it.
Sound about right?
Oh, and Donald Trump had a press conference today tripling down on the illegal part, the Hatian part, the cats/pets part, and the eating part, despite the fact that he had to know it was no longer just a batshit crazy story, but a batshit crazy story that has been proved to be baseless on almost every single word. And the result of Trump being Trump was bomb threats and school evacuations.
Way to go, MAGA! Gold star! You can get it after they have swept the elementary schools for bombs.
Those are free range cats.
Killing people’s pets is wrong; killing wild birds is not. Duck-hunting isn’t even some specifically Haitian custom, as conservatives well know.
Motherfucker said duck hunting. How many Haitians attended hunter safety classes, bought licenses, bought migratory bird stamps, used non-tox shot in shotguns modified to only hold three shells and obeyed seasonal restrictions?
Until the Haitians comply with all of that shit, what they are doing is in fact wrong in the eyes of the law. Including federal fucking law.
Hang ducks and geese! Hang Mike Pence!
If shit's good for the goose, shit's good for the gander! If shit's OK to hang Mike Pence, shit's OK to hang ducks and geese!
Trump offers to pay legal bills for violent offender at Trump rally…
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-20160313-story.html
Trump’s endorsement of violence reaches new level: He may pay legal fees for assault suspect
Trump agrees with “Hang Mike Pence!”
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics/donald-trump-january-6-mike-pence-chants/index.html
Trump reacted with approval to ‘hang Mike Pence’ chants from rioters on January 6
Never happened, Shillsy, and I know that you know that now.
Yes, all LIES from the Lizard People! Audio captured from the Lips of Dear Leader do NOT count!
ONLY the Amphibian People can be believed any moah!!!
“Hang Mike Pence”!!! Dear Leader agrees!!!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-defends-jan-6-rioters-hang-mike-pence-chant-newly-n1283798
Trump defends Jan. 6 rioters’ ‘hang Mike Pence’ chant in new audio
The audio captured part of an interview ABC News’ Jonathan Karl conducted with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in March for Karl’s upcoming book.
But I DO firmly agree with you, all about the below!
Yes indeed, I can NOT understand HOW it is, that pro-reason, pro-freedom, pro-free-markets Reason-dot-com is all, TOTALLY on board with the Demon-Craps and the Lizard People, in advocating installing MIND CONTROL DEVICES into all of us!!!
How DARE they?!?! Ye TRUE Faithful Adherents to the One True Party of the Trumptatorshit, git ye ALL, right NOW, foursquare into the backing of the pro-freedom, Patriotic Amphibian People, as directed by the One True TrumpfenFuhrer, and His Most Devout Disciple, Pepe the (Amphibian Person) Frickin’-Frog!
WHO is gonna SPANK Trump?!?!
Melania won’t do it, “Team R” won’t do it, “Reason” commenters won’t do it, Taylor Swift won’t do it, Putin won’t do it, Biden won’t do it, Pepe the Racist Frog won’t do it… WHO will, at long last, give Trump the SPANKING that He SOOO thoroughly deserves?!?!
(Yes, I know, Spermy Daniels will, butt she won’t do it the RIGHT way!!! And her prices are sexploitative and even SEXORBITANT!!!)
Once again, Kristi Noem *writes* about *legally* shooting *her own dog* on her own property and people go ape shit even though it’s squarely within the law and culture of more than half the country.
But a part of the country where duck hunting isn’t entirely unknown says, “The immigrants flown into our community over the past few years are threatening little old ladies, making a mess of the place otherwise, *and* are eating the local quasi-domesticated fauna.” and people declare ‘Fake News!’.
Indicating, once again, they don’t actually care about diversity or culture or property rights as much as they care about making the people they don’t like, right now, bend the knee, right now. Even less and more, respectively, than Donald Trump does.
I've shot 2 dogs. Didn't like it but when it's the middle of the night and your miles from a vet you do what you have to do to stop the suffering.
As for eating geese, big deal. I goose hunt and just had some guys set up on a field across from the house and take several. The problem is the illegals did it within city boundaries and with no hunting license. The bigger question is why the hell are they there in the first place to illegally take migratory birds?
True. I need a license and a waterfowl stamp to hunt ducks. I'd say, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" but the levels of punning would be way too high in the case.
Hunting of waterfowl is highly regulated. If it wasn’t, the birds would have been extinct a century ago. Nearly all wild birds and animals larger than a squirrel would be in danger if hunting was not limited in some way - and semi-tame ones such as flocks of geese living in city parks could be wiped out in days. Immigrants that want to take wild meat need to understand and obey the hunting laws, or they will deprive everyone else of their fair share.
Cats and dogs are not in danger of extinction, but most are someone’s property, and loved. Taking them is not only theft, but in most cases will have an emotional impact on their owners that far exceeds their tangible value. It is unacceptable to let thieves enter our borders and operate with impunity.
Do you not recognize the difference between hunting without a license and illegal immigrants killing and eating cats?
Or do you just not care, even if it results in bomb threats?
ABC's moderators were weak, and I think they favored Trump. He replied out of turn several times without asking, and they let him. They even turned his mike on. She *asked* for a reply out of turn once, and they didn't let her. They let Trump have 2 1/2 minutes more of time than she got. So much for rules.
They gave him as much rope as they could to hang himself. Are you stupid or just disingenuous?
Yes, that summarizes it perfectly. They gave him as much rope as they could to hang himself, and he did.
LOL, sure thing. Try looking at undecided voters instead of your leftist media talking heads. It wasn't a stellar performance against all 3 of his opponents but Kamala didn't have that handicap and couldn't manage anything at all.
He doesn't want to. One true libertarians like DemSalad trust only corporate media.
Has demsalad even claimed to be libertarian? I assumed he was just a bog standard statist and wouldn’t bother pretending otherwise.
See roundup 2 days ago. He claims to be the libertarianist libertarian ever.
Yet I've never seen him actually cite or reference a single libertarian.
Pretty sure it is Mike.
Hahahahahahaha
“ABC’s moderators were weak, and I think they favored Trump.”
Got to be parody.
I live in Ohio, and the report about Haitians eating geese was on local TV news. Also the Ohio AG backs it up.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/sep/11/ohio-attorney-general-dave-yost-backs-claims-about/
Yes, everyone knows that
“There’s a recorded police call from a witness who saw immigrants capturing geese for food in Springfield. Citizens testified to City Council,” Mr. Yost said on social media.”, which erroneously uses the plural to refer to the single citizen at the town hall
And
“In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats. They’re eating the pets of the people that live there,” are exactly the same thing.
Oh, wait, they’re completely different.
The scariest part is that those are the quotes from the article. The Washington Times thinks those two things are the same. I get random MAGA zealots, but this is purportedly a newspaper serving one of the largest metro areas in the country.
Sad.
Robby, continuing to be the one red-pill adjacent staffer at Reason. And people say there's no hope.
Robby is a very pale pink as far as red pilled goes. He hasn’t completely lost touch with reality, just mostly with spells of lucidity.
Yeah, he's gonna be in the dog-house for this take. Everyone else claims it's just cope to point out that the moderators were less than fair.
Please shut up
They didn't fact check Harris because those two are too fucking stupid to even know the facts. The Trump probable lies for the debate were on cue cards in front of them, written by a tad less retarded intern.
Next debate when the moderators "fact check"
Trump he should say I'm here to debate Harris not you
There isn't going to be another debate, until the polls drop for Kamala.
So next week you say? Unless of course you're only polling media rooms.
According to half the post debate polling it would be tonight.
Well, Harris already invited Trump to another debate, immediately after she kicked his ass in the first one, and he wanted no part of it. Trump doesn't have the courage to get played that badly on national TV again.
Let's face it, Trump is too easily manipulated and too willing to say batshit crazy things for his campaign to let a shitshow like that to happen again.
Tucker Carlson could moderate and Trump would still come off like an angry, confused old man who will say any crazy thing someone tells him. Because he is.
Clay Travis of Outkick the Coverage had an excellent idea:
Let each candidate pick the questioner for their opponent.
Stop doing these ambushes the GOP always deals with in these debates.
Or pair debates. In one debate the Democratic nominee gets to choose the moderators in the other the Republican nominee gets to name the moderators. In one election cycle the Democratic nominee gets to choose for the first debate and the next cycle the Republican nominee gets to choose the moderators for the first debate.
Half expect Dem nominee to pull out of the "Republican debate" each time and the press will side with them over it.
FNC is markedly more fair than ABC, but the press would be AGHAST if a Dem dared to allow FNC to run a debate.
Best would be for the moderators to ask the questions to both without inserting commentary and then let them answer correcting the other. Moderators are there to prevent the debate from turning into a shouting match and make sure the rules are followed not to expound on any subject.
Maybe they once were.
What's the odds they had a meeting before the debate about how to handle Trump?
Yeah, public debate and speaking are not Trump's strengths. But to be fair if he were a polished public speaker would he be as popular with his base?
Actually, when was the last time we had a polished public speaker who could speak clearly without a teleprompter run for president in this nation? Ronald Reagan was the last one I can think of.
Gary Johnson, duh.
I can't remember anything he ever said.
Jeffsarc is going to be an agry drunk today.
An angry, fat drunk.
"I neglected to mention last week that I saw Wolverine and Deadpool… and it was great!"
Aye.
I guess I am the only one who thought it was not great. I laughed and it was worth my money, but it was hardly great. It even had some great parts- good one liners, and the villainess was pretty awesome. But that was marred by completely boring action scenes (the multiverse Deadpool fight at the end was not only silly, but also just pointless, since everyone with a 3 second memory knows that Deadpools er...generally don't die.) The plot was forgettable, and Jackman was very underutilized.
Maybe I am just too jaded to enjoy Marvel any more, but the only good parts in Deadpool I had seen already in the previous 2 movies, save for Jackman who was great, but not enough to make the movie more than okay.
Maybe it's just me, but "I laughed and it was worth my money" is high praise considering how most new movies just plain suck.
Last night I watched "Mr Right", which I had never heard of, from 2016 with Sam Rockwell, Anna Kendrick and Tim Roth and it was really good. It was kind of an action/comedy. Anna falls for hitman Sam.
That movie is great!
Anna is also in "the Accountant where she falls for the anti hero of the movie
Do you think anyone in the writers' room had the guts to even suggest a joke about Kitty Pride?
""ABC's Moderators Failed to Fact-Check Kamala Harris."
Oh, please.
ABC is part of the democrats' propaganda wing.
They weren't about to fact check Comrade Kamala and make her look stupid.
Dana Walden, head of ABC News, is a family friend of Kamala and Doug. Meaning there was zero bias.
Oof.
Bree A Dail
@breeadail
CONFIRMED—@ABC Linsey Davis, who moderated last night’s Presidential Debate, had a MAJOR conflict of interest:
She is a sorority sister of @KamalaHarris, and bragged about it on record, years ago.
Videos
https://x.com/breeadail/status/1834028685189427207
"You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge. These people went to the same universities and fraternities…" - George Carlin
To be fair, they were in the same sorority... operative word "sorority". Meaning there's a 72.9% chance they hate each other.
Or willy brown had some really good nights.
I bet he burns when he pees now
You’re really trying to get me to make a curry joke aren’t you.
Indian food is the shittiest of all spicy ethnic food. At least that’s the word on the street.
Depends, I'd say. I've had Indian food that I thought was just weird, unidentifiable glop and Indian food that was fantastic. I think it's the vegetarian stuff that I don't really like that much.
"Linsey Davis, who moderated last night’s Presidential Debate, had a MAJOR conflict of interest"
So the definition of a major conflict of interest is that two women, 15 years apart in age, who went to different universities, lived in different states, and followed different careers, belonged to the same sorority?
Are you people demented?
Trump is quite capable of damaging his own campaign without any help from ABC news blow-dries. By making their bias so blatantly obvious the "moderators" are actually helping Trump salvage his ridiculous rants. Harris came off looking vacuous and inexperienced with or without fact-checking by the biased "moderators" - America is doomed ... DOOMED! I tell you ...
Most. Important. Election. Of. Our. Lifetime.
Just like the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that...
You should realize the scope and power of government keeps ratcheting up. It's not going the other way. It's probably already too late to turn it around. Is that funny to you?
Oh I fully realize that government is a one-way ratchet and that it is way past the point of no return. What I find funny is that every election both sides are saying it's the most pivotal election of our lives. What I find sad is that millions of dumbasses believe it.
It really is this time, and you're too bitter and butthurt to realize it.
That is how the fearmongers manipulate you to 'hold your nose' and vote for a shit sandwich.
Don't fall for their lies, don't vote for either team.
That's how you get more Team Blue.
If eating a shit sandwich is the only thing that will stop you from getting shot in the head with an elephant gun, eat the shit sandwich.
Trump supporters should threaten to move to Canada if Harris wins.
But maybe your “Eat The Shit Sandwich: Vote Trump” bumpersticker would work also, give it a try.
So you want them to act like your allies?
That's right folks. If Team Blue wins, Kamamlama is literally going to go to your house and shoot you in the head with an elephant gun.
Meanwhile, if Team Red wins, Trump is literally going to go to your house and kidnap your wife and daughter in order to start Handmaid's Tale.
This type of absurd crap is how you get shit sandwiches in the first place. Each team knows they don't have to present ideas or policies, all they have to do is scare you into thinking "if the other team wins, they're gonna blow up the planet if they win!" It is their *deliberate* and *cynical* strategy to purposefully frighten you.
Plus, don't forget, ML is a self-admitted Trump shill so he will absolutely do Team Red's bidding and play along with their cynical games so that his Orange Demigod wins.
She has literally said she would “buy back” firearms.
Are you saying she didn’t say that?
See her David Muir interview just a few years ago.
Plus, don’t forget, ML is a self-admitted Trump shill so he will absolutely do Team Red’s bidding and play along with their cynical games so that his Orange Demigod wins.
He's more of a Democrat hater who has glommed onto Trump. He really and truly hates all Democrats. He has an emotional reaction to the name of the party. It's visceral. He hates them, and if he was honest he'd say he wants to kill them. He'd cheerfully murder a hundred million people if they were all Democrats. They're not human. Only with a purge, a final solution, will he be satiated. He's shilling for Trump not because he supports Trump, but because he believes Trump can solve the Democrat Problem.
More projection. Citation. You in every thread critical of a dem.
Any liberty minded person rightly should hate them (the Party at least).
For all their talk about social issues, the only thing they are even remotely good on is abortion and possibly immigration*. There is not a single policy where libertarians could drag them over the line to our position.
*good if you support 0 abortion restrictions and open borders.
Yeah but Kamala used to smoke up back in the day with Snoop Doggy Dog or some such.
Kamala is going to lift up people rather than knock them down. She will give us money for a new house and loves small business.
She smoked up to Tupac and Biggie 5 years before they released their first albums.
You sound mad. Maybe you should get some free counseling, I think Kamala is going to pay for that too.
Sarc sock? Where is the anger? Lol.
Act Blue continues to send their worst.
No bro, U mad.
ooh.....give me some free shit, Kommiela!
I'm having a really hard time deciding if this is sarcasm or serious.
Poe’s Law gets a daily beatdown thanks to “the true libertarians” here.
Right?!
"killing wild birds is not . . ."
It's illegal, like 9 different ways, to kill a wild Canada goose in a public park.
Not just that- I really don't understand why people- especially Soave- think there is this bright line between killing pets and killing animals in a park. Maybe they aren't a specific family's pet, but these geese and ducks are not really wild, either.
Indeed, for many people, geese and ducks in parks are close to pets. They go to these parks to watch them swim around and feed them. They watch in spring as the babies are born and follow their parents around. Killing them is extremely uncivilized and creepy as fuck, but Soave is like, "well, no pets were killed so who is the real bad guy here?"
I seem to recall an article several years ago where some cop shot an elk that was beloved by the town, snd they treated it with the same opprobrium as copds shooting dogs...I can't figure out how this is substantially different...
I'd say that killing people's actual pets is much worse. But also that taking fowl from a park isn't no big deal, as you say.
I feel like the whole deal about making the distinction is mostly just so they can call Trump a racist liar about the pets claim. He should be more careful about what claims from twitter he repeats. But it's hardly the case that "well they were only taking waterfowl from parks, not pets" thoroughly refutes his point.
But it’s hardly the case that “well they were only taking waterfowl from parks, not pets” thoroughly refutes his point.
I completely disagree. There's a world if difference between poaching wild animals and killing domesticated pets for food. As Trump would say, the difference is uuuuge.
Not only that, but some similar story makes the rounds whenever there's a wave of immigrants. Remember when immigrants were eating all the pigeons, and cities were no longer going to have any winged rats? Me too. Did the pigeons go away? Nope.
As I said, I do think eating someone's actual pet is a lot worse. And I really have no idea what the actual facts are to this. But I don't find it particularly unbelievable either. Shit's pretty fucked up in Haiti. I doubt there's a lot of small game wandering around there that doesn't get eaten pretty quickly.
Trump was pretty stupid to uncritically repeat the "eating pets" thing. Moving 20,000 migrants into a small city like that is crazy enough on its own.
It's also pretty fucked up that there are, supposedly, 20,000 refugees in a city of 60,000 people. That kind of sudden population explosion is going to cause a resource crunch such that it's unsurprising for rumors of this sort to happen.
It is more like 12,000-15,000, and they have been steadily arriving since 2022. They did not all arrive at once. Furthermore a great many of them were not "imported" there by Biden. They freely migrated there on their own because of family connections.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/haitian-immigrants-fueled-springfields-growth-now-us-presidential-debate-2024-09-11/
Oh 15,000 in 2 years that's nothing they're just racist.
Nothing says "nothing to see here" than sarc's own estimate of illegals making up 25% of the town's population in 2 years suddenly appearing.
They freely migrated there on their own because of family connections.
It's just all of the residents' cousins coming over, so no worries about it.
The Haitian migrants are here legally. They are not "illegals".
Why are you conflating legal and illegal immigration?
Jeff, that's horse shit. Just because the current administration has decided not to enforce the law, doesn't make it legal.
Someone not muted by Lying Jeffy should ask where the executive branch got the authority to traffic 15,000 Haitians into a city.
Libertarians still question whether the government doing something makes it legal, right?
Watch the fat regime apologist defend the regime.
This doesn’t really make it better…
And I’d note that many towns in Texas have instituted building freezes because of the intrastate immigration overwhelming our infrastructure, so handwaving away the concerns of that kind of population increase with a “well actually it’s been over two years” is ridiculously tone deaf.
I'm not "handwaving it away". I'm setting the record straight.
The way some people have talked around here, it is as if 20k people showed up overnight on buses driven by Biden himself. that's not true.
Thing is, they score point with those zingers, and when you fact-check you take the zing away. The only possible reason to do that is that you’re defending whatever it is that they are attacking. It’s not because you wanted to set the record straight. Nobody does that unless they’re defending something. That’s what these people believe. And I think many of them tell lies to deliberately bait someone into setting the record straight, so they can then attack that person with strawman arguments.
Dumb regime apologist defends regime again.
He’s not a leftist though.
“showed up overnight on buses driven by Biden himself.”
Lying Jeffy is a disgusting, dishonest, piece of shit authoritarian boot licker.
Not even sure where the racism angle comes in, as it is a known tradition extended from Haitis slavery day.
https://www.haitianreport.com/2019/03/does-haitian-eat-cats.html?m=1
Eating cat meat is not a daily activity or a nationwide practice in Haiti. However, some Haitians do eat cats on December 24th in a national festivity called "Reveyon" which is a big Christmas party.
This is a practice exclusively known to a select group of Haitians found mostly from some countryside villages.
Not gonna try either, but I heard from a Reeve I know that did aid work in Haiti last year, that cat is stringy and sour tasting but dog is actually delicious.
Moutain lion is delicious, while bobcat is okay. Not trying domestic cat unless it's TEOTWAWKI.
Sounds like the people crying racism are not being very culturally sensitive to Haitians.
It is like the cries of racism for people mentioning bat soup from China.
Weren't there numerous VERIFIED reports a few months ago about cannibalism in Haiti? Why is it so objectionable and "racist" to ask about the possibility of Haitians in Ohio eating cats or dogs?
I don't think it is actually happening, as opposed to the park geese being poached which is documented, but it's not some wildly outlandish theory.
Maybe because – get this – not all Haitians are the same?
"Weren't there numerous VERIFIED reports of Americans shooting up schools? Why is it racist or bigoted to ask about the possibility of Americans casually murdering children?"
Roman Senator: “Not all Visigoths are the same.”
Why do you always use this same strawman argument? When did I say all Haitians are the same? There are Haitians who eat cats (though it sounds as though that's a small percentage of Haitians, and it's not a normal meal even for those who do eat cats), and there are/were Haitians engaging in cannibalism. It doesn't mean ALL Haitians are eating cats and people, but it also doesn't mean NO Haitians do so either. So it's at least plausible (but not confirmed) that the Haitians in OH COULD be doing it. I don't accept the claim, though, as I haven't seen sufficient evidence supporting it. I just find it absurd that the mere suggestion it could be happening is treated as "racist." People from other countries eat food that we Americans might find gross or odd. Especially true for some poor countries that don't have regular access to what we would consider "regular" food.
When did I say all Haitians are the same?
No, but your strong implication was that the practice of cannibalism in Haiti - which is a rare, socially unacceptable, and ILLEGAL practice - is more commonplace than it really is, so much so that it would seem reasonable to consider if random Haiti natives in Ohio would be cannibals too. As if you were asking random Brits if they drink tea, or something. It really is not much different than assuming that a random American is going to start murdering children in the street. It's offensive and it reveals a bigoted attitude towards those against whom this assumption is made.
There is cannibalism in America, too - remember Jeffrey Dahmer? But it would be absurd to think to ask Americans living abroad, "hey, are you a cannibal?" So why is it reasonable to ask random Haitians if they are cannibals?
Shocking new bodycam footage shows moment woman with ‘fur on her lips’ arrested for eating cat in Ohio
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13844919/bodycam-eating-cat-Ohio-trup-pets.html
Check it out. A deranged American-born woman 170 miles away from Springfield eating a cat is proof that Haitian savages are killing and eating pets in Springfield. You can’t tell me that’s not proof.
No, you lied and got caught.
I appreciate though that you’ve given up all pretense and now consistently lie on behalf of the federal government.
Chemjeff, you're such a dishonest interlocuter. Any time anyone posts anything that is negative about someone who belongs to a group you prize you engage in this same bullshit fallacy. I specifically said it's PLAUSIBLE that some Haitian in OH could be eating cats, as there is precedent for that in Haiti. I even stated that I don't think the story is true in OH, and was commenting on people--like you--who can't even admit to the possibility, and insult anyone who does. You're dishonest, because you know it's possible. Instead you have to CONCERN TROLL (remember that) on any fucking story about migrants. You're so warped on this subject (and others) that you gave a stupid, and frankly disgusting, mitigation for the migrants in Germany who raped the German girl.
Also, you didn't reply to the post I made below where I take your bait, and answer honestly, that, yes, there probably are people in America who want to murder children. I don't see anything wrong with that statement, as there are sick people in every country. It's only wrong if you meant it applies to EVERY American, which would be applying your stupid fallacy to the statement.
As a rational person, I don't fly off the handle and accuse people off applying the part to the whole. I used Sarc's favorite resource, Google:
A fallacy of composition involves assuming that parts or members of a whole will have the same properties as the whole. This leads to wrong conclusions because what is true of the different parts is not necessarily true of the whole.
If you said it's plausible that some number of Americans want to casually murder children, I'd say you're right. I'm sure there are some. I wouldn't take it to mean you are saying ALL Americans want to casually murder children, but it sounds as though you think it would mean that.
Stereotypes exist for a reason. In any group a large percentage will live down to their stereotypes while a small percentage will not. For every stripper with a heart of gold trying to make it through college while being a single mother there are ten meth addicts with a half dozen kids whose fathers aren't known.
Trump didn't mention geese or ducks. He mentioned pets.
And here is why the distinction matters.
If the matter was only about geese or ducks, then killing geese or ducks is fundamentally no different than what hunters do all the time. The only real issue here is that the migrants killed the waterfowl without following the proper regulations. Sure that is illegal and a crime but the act itself is not fundamentally problematic.
But if the matter was about killing household pets, then that would demonstrate that the migrants are depraved on some level. Who does that? Only weirdos and sickos. That's what it would demonstrate the migrants to be - weirdos and sickos who don't deserve to be here among 'normal people'.
That’s what it would demonstrate the migrants to be – weirdos and sickos who don’t deserve to be here among ‘normal people’.
That’s why his defenders are still defending what he said. It confirms their belief that migrants are subhumans. So even if it’s not true, it’s still accurate. According to Jesse above, a small, exclusive group of Haitian savages supposedly eat cat on Christmas. That means all the migrants eat cat every day.
He even gave you a fucking link, but you're going to ignore it so your lying ass call call him a ‘racist’.
You’re such a piece of shit, Sarckles.
Such an emotional defense of your buddy Jesse. Bravo. Been sucking down the maple whine again. Can smell your breath from here. Be careful around open flame.
Watch the alcoholic deflect with charges of alcoholism.
That has been his new favorite projection lately.
Maybe people are tired of your cries of victimhood while you post drunk, ignorant bullshit every day?
There is only one Victim, and His name is Trump.
Now let us pray.
I’ll buy you a gun if you promise to use it on yourself.
That's what makes you really angry. You own victimhood.
Jesse, you must calm down and pray. Pray to the True Victim. We know who His name is. Just pray. Pray for Him to Smite the Democrats! Pray for Him to Smite China! Pray for Him to Smite illegals! Pray for Him to be appointed to the Presidency, where He can Smite all of your enemies! It will be glorious! Glorious Smiting!
Did this make sense to you sarc? How deep are you into 40s tonight? Lol.
That is an impressive strawman. Did you get both heads patted by Jeff for that one?
Sorry, but yes there is a fundamental difference between going on a wild duck or goose hunt and walking into the local park and bagging one like you’re shopping at an open air Costco.
I am referring to the choice of target, not the circumstances surrounding how the target was killed.
We get it, you’re a shitlib.
“then killing geese or ducks is fundamentally no different than what hunters do all the time.”
This is what you said. I’m saying you’re wrong and it IS fundamentally different than normal hunting.
"And here is why the distinction matters."
No I don't think you guys actually do care about this distinction.
We hear nothing from Soave when venezuelan gang members take over apartment buildings. We hear nothing when they are going into parks and murdering the semi-domestic animals there. We hear nothing when the people of Springfield are screaming about people squatting on their lawns and leaving their shit all over the place.
But this one exageration goes out there, and everyone jumps on it. SUDDENLY all the left wanted to talk about the complaints. Because by focusing on the one untrue complaint, they can delegitimize all the actual valid complaints.
Round here it's illegal to feed the wild waterfowl because they shit up the sidewalks.
We should definitely stop feeding YOU.
He is probably extra sensitive from his days of homelessness and not having any friends to let him crash on the couch.
And they didn’t let him crash because he barfed on the couch.
Wrong, moderators should be factchecking every politician on every stage / platform at all times... and so should the citizenry. Taking people's word for things or believing tribal rhetoric is how we got into this mess in the first place. Think ! Don't just follow a party line. If either one of them lies, they should be shamed off the stage. (or as NYPD puts it ... 'assisted to the ground'.)
So moderators are the designated finders of fact in your view. What if they're as stupid and uninformed as you are? What then?!
Ad hominem is the tool of a person with no legitimate argument.
And letting the moderators fact check during debates is virtually an appeal to authority (moderators) logical fallacy.
Why should they be the arbiters of truth during a debate? Shouldn't the debate opponent be the one to call out the falsehoods? Wouldn't the biases of the moderators, which already skew the debate by choosing the questions, further skew the debate? Why is this better?
No, for the same reason you don’t let one sports-ball team be the one to call fouls / penalties against the opposing sports-ball team. You need a 3rd party referee (or several) to make the calls. Can you imagine a Superbowl with no refs and the teams get to make penalty calls against each ? It would be chaos and non-productive / non-viable. A moderator is the ref.
This is a dumb analogy since all reporting of political contributions of reporters show an extreme bias for Democrats. Refs who show a bias for a team get fired.
Yes, that Fox News is so biased towards Democrats. Rupert Murdock's entire media empire spends all its time promoting Dem propaganda. Foreign media too, they are all being paid by the secret Dem shadow media Illuminati. Cool story , bro.
Refs are making calls based on what they see with their own eyes. Not holder of truths. They even make bad calls.
No, a better analogy would be letting the refs veto one team's game plan or play call. What you're advocating for amounts to this.
And you don't think that "fact checks" are mostly rhetoric and propaganda? And that debate moderators don't have their own agendas? Some facts are easy to check, but most are pretty hard to nail down. Trump certainly makes shit up and repeats untrue rumors sometimes, but a lot of his supposed lies come down to arguing over definitions or facts that are still in dispute.
No, I think factchecks are the exact opposite of rhetoric and propaganda. When Trump said Haitians are eating your pets, the moderator was correct to step in and say there is no credible reports of such an occurrence and to name the source by which he got that information ... and then shut up. Not give his opinion on why its incorrect, not wax on about the character of the participants; no, just state the fact and move one. I swear people have forgotten what the point of journalism is , which is to provide factual information to the public. Not everybody has the time, education, nor bandwidth to keep up with every topic; journalism was our first line of defense before we warped it into the political poo-flinging that we have now. It is still our duty to factcheck politicians, but the first line of defense is not to let known or easily debunked falsehoods be spoken on your watch; especially if you are the host working on the behalf of the public.
When the lies are real zingers that score points and make the other team look bad, pointing them out is viewed as defense for the other team. Especially in today's political landscape where neither side cares for the truth one bit. They're just out there scoring points.
I mean the entire point of media and your team saying Kamala wom was bases on her getting under Trumps skin. Awkward.
And speaking of truth... have a great example from you ignoring information just above to try to get a retarded strawman in. Lol.
When Kamala said Trump is going to enact Project 2025, should they not have said that her statement is not true?
How about her discussing the "very fine people" nonsense?
When Kamala said Trump is going to enact Project 2025, should they not have said that her statement is not true?
Well, I am sure ML will be along shortly to remind us that "a prediction cannot be a lie". Right ML? Right?
And since they refuse to do any reporting, there won’t be any credible reports.
So you think stupid shit. Even after the hilarious fact check correction from Time.
Taking people’s word for things or believing tribal rhetoric is how we got into this mess in the first place.
Yet we should blindly take the words of journalists?
No, but they are the first line of defense. Due diligence on our part is the price of democracy.
You mean: “Our democracy” right?
Despite the thousands of examples of them being wrong?
Stop justifying how easily you fall for propaganda.
This is as retarded as sarc citing google.com for everything. Then again he does also love citing Jen Psaki.
Citing "google" just means "do your own research you lazy fuck."
Or… your sources is media corporate narratives like Jen Psaki.
This is extra hilarious as you admit you refuse to read links or information that goes against your biases.
Also hilarious as everyone not a liberal fuck has read the studies on googles search bias. Yet you are dependent on it.
In fact out of anyone here you refuse to cite evidence for your assertions more than anyone. You know it would expose you or you fear you'd realize how fucking wrong you always are lol.
Or… your sources is media corporate narratives like Jen Psaki.
Sure. Except I’ve never cited her directly. One time I cited a Wikipedia article that cited her. So once I cited her indirectly.
Then you go around every day claiming she’s my main source of info.
You’re a lying sack of shit. I really don’t understand how everyone doesn’t dismiss you for it. I guess it’s because my failure to refute all of your lies in all of your posts is taken as tacit agreement. That and the fact that you and the rest of the Trump minions are only interested in scoring points, even if everyone knows what you say is a lie. You really should have gone into law enforcement. You'd have done well.
You actually cited her. Then defended your citation by citing wiki citing her. Lol.
While rushing to defend Jeff.
It was quite amusing. But since it matched your biases you did it unabashedly.
I should have gone into law enforcement? Why so you could send me after your ex wife?
What did I lie about? You just admitted to it. Granted you lied about most of it. But you admitted half of it.
And a city on me saying she is your primary source? Oh. Another one of your lies. I said Google was just above retard.
Fucking pathological. Lol.
You realize that unless you go back in time and eliminate all the tribes from all of human history (and actually probably closer to the dawn of invertebrates depending on when you consider animals to have formed social structures), the problem of "Taking people’s word for things or believing tribal rhetoric is how we got into this mess in the first place." will persist, right?
Not if we stop being lazy and do our part. We invented the scientific method & we invented logical reasoning. If people even gave the smallest effort to use either in their daily lives we'd all be better off.
Not if we stop being lazy and do our part.
You just said your part was trusting biased journalists. Lol.
CNN fact checker Dale stated Kamala only lied one time for fucks sake. Lol.
No, you just made that up in due to incomprehension or being intentionally contrarian. I said, "No, but they are the first line of defense. Due diligence on our part is the price of democracy."
That in no way means blindly trusting journalists as that would be them doing 'their part' while we aren't doing ours. I don't expect everybody to be up to date with every topic possible at the time of the debate; what I do expect is for people in their spare time to take the initiative to investigate / factcheck on their own. That is each person's 'due diligence'.
Yes. You are trusting them to be arbiter of the truth despite the many many many times are wrong. They are not in anyway a port of defending truth. They are often propagators of lies.
You are just proving your intentional bias an intellectual laziness.
I mean fuck, half of them were calling out Trump regarding his comment regarding Kamala and see surgeries for illegals DESPITE CNN reporting on it a day before. They push lies all the time. They are not arbiter of truth lol.
You're just biased and intellectually lazy.
No, you just made that up
Jesse does that a lot. You should get used to it.
Jesse also engages in a lot of simplistic, black/white thinking.
"Journalists are not 100% correct all the time, therefore they are 100% wrong and can't be trusted to do anything."
"Masks don't work 100% to stop viruses, therefore they are 100% useless."
"Illegal immigrants aren't 100% pure saintly people, therefore they are 100% violent thugs."
Not if we stop being lazy and do our part.
False. By the same logic and scientific method you lazily claim to be a part of the tribe who invented it despite your lazy implementation of it. No amount of action in the predicate changes the antecedent. No matter how much better we practice logic or the scientific method, taking people's word for things and/or believing tribal rhetoric will still be what got us to where we are.
You aren't dispelling tribalism or compartmentalization or duck typing, nor are you advancing science, reason, and logic (entirely letting alone things as lofty as morals and ethics). You're standing with the other retards of your tribe on what used to be a runway with lit tiki torches and coconuts on your ears hoping that if you wishcast correctly the metal bird gods of the sky will make your desires come true.
Stop and ask yourself at what point did I say to blindly take someone's word for it ? Go back and read , I'll wait. You will notice that at no point did I say to take someone's word for it; that it was JessieAz who said anything close to that. My whole position is to not take someone's word for it , double so when talking about a politician. Don't even take a factchecker's word for it , if you can duly factcheck it for yourself. That is due diligence.
As for who invented logic and scientific method , I wasn't referring to any 'tribe' but humanity as a whole. You have tribalism on the brain like it shapes your entire worldview. I say "we invented" and instead thinking of the accomplishments of humanity as a whole, you immediately phrase it as some kind of "them vs us" scenario. That's your projection, not mine.
You keep calling them a line of defense for the truth. Without any introspection on how many times they are wrong lol.
The moderators about states not allowing born alive babies to dir was literally fucking wrong. But you trust it because you accept them as truthful. Less than a third of the country thinks they are truthful. There are too many examples of them lying.
You keep calling them a line of defense for the truth. Without any introspection on how many times they are wrong lol.
Jesse Logic:
"The US military *claims* to be the line of defense for the nation, but since they sometimes screw up, therefore the US military can't be trusted at all to defend anything."
If the military screwed up defense of the homeland as much as the media has straight up lied over the past 40 years, you would be right to doubt their ability to defend anything.
Stop and ask yourself at what point did I say to blindly take someone’s word for it ?
Why? That would be imprecise and lazy as you didn’t say that to me and I didn’t say you did.
It’s almost like you don’t believe in even the tenets of anything you write and even relatively naive people would be able to see that you’re a dishonest shitbag who prefers to fuck people over rather than engage with people honestly or rationally.
you immediately phrase it as some kind of “them vs us” scenario.
I didn’t say ‘versus’. And it’s not tribalism, it’s compartmentalization. If I met a talking orange and the orange said “We apples.” I’m neither suggesting that oranges oppose apples (nor bananas nor grapes nor kumquats...) by pointing out that the orange doesn’t fit the semantic statement of “We apples”. Further, oranges and apples (and bananas and grapes and kumquats...) could be, but aren’t necessarily, tribes.
Once again, you continue to demonstrate that you don’t really care about words or logic or or science or reason or making the world a better place. You just want to exploit your own ignorance in order to torture people.
For those keeping score at home we've had Robbie, Veronique and even Christian (if that is in fact his real name) manage to write articles for Reason that did not devolve into TDS rants. I can only assume that the Koch libertarians are acting strategically if also reluctantly.
Oh, come on. Did anyone really expect the debate to be run in a fair and impartial manner?
/sigh
Facts don't matter in presidential elections any more. Now, they are simply, unabashedly, popularity contests. That is just one of the problems with appealing to the idea that "democracy" is somehow the pinnacle of good governance. Democracy is a logical fallacy: "argumentum ad populum" (i.e. Appeal to Popularity).
https://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html
And by "democracy" I am assuming you mean all forms of democratic governance such as parliaments, constitutional monarchies, republics, etc.
So what is the better alternative?
A beautiful international supra-governmental organization, funded by governments around the world and 1,000 member companies (all global enterprises with more than five billion US dollars in turnover).
Its mission would be "improving" the world using business, political, academic, and other leaders of society to shape the planet.
That would lead to utopia for sure.
Why can't you just give up all decisions to a global government of unelected elites like Jeff wants?
So no serious answer then. Got it.
asking one anonymous person to define a government model more successful than what has yet to be created.
“Democracy “ isn’t mentioned anywhere in the declaration or the constitution, kind of big oversight if you planned on establishing such a corrupt form of government.
Well because, unlike Jeff, the founders were actually educated on politics and knew the dangers of pure democracy from ancient Greece.
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” attributed to Churchill
You would cite a fellow alcoholic.
He also wouldn’t realize Britain has never had a pure democracy. While applauding them now for locking his enemies up for speech.
And by “democracy” I am assuming you mean all forms of democratic governance such as parliaments, constitutional monarchies, republics, etc.
Any thing based on the (paraphrased) premise that "majority rule is best rule" is based on the argumentum ad populum fallacy and is, therefore, fallacious.
So what is the better alternative?
Beats me, but just because I don't know of a "better alternative" doesn't mean I'm not wrong about democratic governance being based on a logical fallacy.
"So what is the better alternative?"
Personally, I think Infomacracy showed a great way. By the end of the trilogy, of course. Getting there was a hot mess.
OT: Javier Milei has defeated an attempt to increase spending on pensions in Argentina after the country’s opposition parties failed to secure the votes they needed to override the libertarian president’s veto.
Milei 2024!
Let's be clear Trump lied pretty much through the whole debate. The moderators questioned him on a few egregious statements. They also let a lot of Trump's lies pass without remark. Had the moderators questioned the candidate at a level that would have caught Harris, then they would have spent much of the evening just questioning Trump. You can disagree with Kamala Harris but she is working from framework of facts, while Trump is simple weaving stories from thin air.
Not exactly from thin air. He's repeating stuff that a lot of other people are saying. Often sloppily and he should be a little more concerned with what claims actually have good evidence to back them up.
People are also awfully quick to assume a lie from an incorrect statement. It's not a lie if you actually believe it.
It’s not a lie if you actually believe it.
The Costanza Principle!
Also part of the definition of the word "lie". There has to be an intent to deceive for something to be a lie.
"It’s not a lie if you actually believe it."
We really have no way of knowing whether he believes it or not. There's an interesting book On Bullshit. The liar has some concept of true and false, right and wrong. The bullshitter has other fish to fry.
You would know.
"You would know."
I wouldn't. Neither would you. That's my point. Whether he believes it or not is essentially irrelevant. Because it's bullshit. You can read the book too, if you're curious.
Is a religious person a liar because they believe in things you don’t?
A liar is a person who says things they know to be untrue. According to Harry Frankfurter's monograph on the subject, a bullshitter attempts to persuade without regard to the truth or falsity of what they say.
The liar cares about the truth and attempts to hide it; the bullshitter doesn't care whether what they say is true or false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit
Which one is sarc? Which one jeff?
""A liar is a person who says things they know to be untrue""
Like the people who have been saying Biden didn't have cognitive issues.?
I think you’re being partisan and uncharitable. Those defending Biden probably thought he was having age issues. (He’s over 80.) His cognitive abilities were more or less normal for a person of his age. ie memory loss, and general physical decline.
A liar, as I wrote previously several times, is someone who knows the truth but says otherwise.
""Those defending Biden probably thought he was having age issues.""
Didn't someone say as sharp as a 20 year old?
Why are you making excuses for what was obviously gaslighting?
"Didn’t someone say as sharp as a 20 year old?"
Maybe, and you were a fool to be taken in. 80 year olds are not as sharp as 20 year olds. May you live long enough to find out for yourself.
"Why are you making excuses for what was obviously gaslighting?"
Because I think Biden's cognitive abilities are normal for a man of 80 - ie memory loss and general slowing down, as I stated earlier.
"he should be a little more concerned with what claims actually have good evidence to back them up."
It's cute that you think Trump cares whether his claims have any truth to them.
"People are also awfully quick to assume a lie from an incorrect statement. It’s not a lie if you actually believe it."
So facts are relative? No. Facts are things that are true. Evidence and accepting it when something you said is shown to be false is also important.
Tripling down on a lie, leading to bomb threats and forcing school evacuations? That's pathological lying. That's Donsld Trump.
Really, he was ? Name three of those "lies". And ill give you three kamala harris lies that were twice as egregious. Oh and are we counting Trump saying he was being sarcastic as being one of those "lies"?
Mod won’t, because aside from lying, he only knows what Brian Stelter told him at breakfast.
At best he’ll lawyer about the definition of “pets”, and then lie about the born alives left to die on operating tables in Minnesota.
Well, you can start out with the few times Trump did get called on the carpet. Suggesting that abortions are performed in the ninth month, suggesting that migrants eat people's pets, saying that there was fraud in the 2020 election. You can also go to ABC's real time check of the debate.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fact-checking-kamala-harris-donald-trumps-1st-presidential/story?id=113567997
You will see that Harris claims that were called out often needed context, while Trumps claims called out were mostly false.
I mean I just posted examples of 8 times a born alive baby was allowed to die in just Minnesspta or the 5 states that don't require palliative care.
Your fact check on the pets thing is a city manager saying there were no credible reports while ignoring citizens at a town hall. I'm sure that city manager ran a full investigation. Let's also ignore the ducks and geese stuff we have audio calls and pictures of.
I'm glad your using the org whose news chief is friends with Kamala as your source though.
Your fact check on the pets thing is a city manager saying there were no credible reports while ignoring citizens at a town hall.
Jesse's version of a fact check:
"There is no tangible evidence of a Haitian immigrant eating a cat. However, some random person said it was true at a town hall, therefore we rate the claim TOTALLY TRUE!"
You have way too much faith in politicians and bureaucrats doing their jobs.
Jeff's usually completely in the tank for the far left, but that doesn't mean he's always wrong.
In this case pointing out that "one guy said" isn't considered evidence by anyone who wants to be taken seriously is, in fact, a very valid point. Especially when subsequent investigation makes it more, not less, clear that the story isn't true.
You don't even need to look to politicians and bureaucrats. The best the people who desperately want to "prove" Trump isn't a pathological liar have been able to come up with is a picture of a man (not Hatian) carrying a wild (not pet) duck (not cat or dog) in Columbus (not Springfield). So except for every single element of the story, it is true.
Unless you think "man kills wild goose, maybe without a license in Columbus" and "illegal Hatian immigrant kills and eats pet dogs and cats in Springfield" are anything like each other?
"I mean I just posted examples of 8 times a born alive baby was allowed to die in just Minnesspta or the 5 states that don’t require palliative care."
Both of your "examples" are gross mischaracterizations of what actually happened/happens in those situations. And none of it is abortion at or after birth, nor is it legal anywhere in America to kill a baby after it's been born. But you know all this.
"while ignoring citizens at a town hall"
Not citizens, plural. One citizen. "This one guy said" isn't evidence, especially when ne supporting evidence is ever found.
"Let’s also ignore the ducks and geese stuff we have audio calls and pictures of."
You mean the one audio call (made by the same guy from the town hall)? So one guy who said the same untrue thing twice?
You will see that Harris claims that were called out often needed context, while Trumps claims called out were mostly false.
But that's what most of these left-leaning fact check organizations do: if the truth is ambiguous and they're fact-checking a right-leaning person they claim it's a lie; if it's an outright lie from someone on the left, they claim it needs "more context."
NYT just did that today regarding the illegals sex change story.
Abortions are performed in the 9th month, albeit very rarely.
There was fraud in the 2020 election. The greatest part too, is it was Trump supporters that got convicted, so your statement just shows how bought into the lie you are.
Several of her comments didn’t need “context”, they were flat out lies.
Challenge accepted:
1) Illegal Hatian immigrants are killing and eating pet cats and dogs in Springfield, OH. 100% false.
2) Democrats (hell, anyone for that matter) support abortion after live birth and it's legal in blue states. Granted, that's technically two, but fortunately there are so many clear, knowing falsehoods by Trump that I don't have to be stingy.
3) Trump won the 2020 election and there was widespread fraud. Yes, that's also a two-for-one, but once again, he's the dishonesty gift that keeps on giving. No matter how often everyone begs him to stop.
Seriously, finding those five was easier than falling off a log.
OK, your turn.
Oh. So Kamala screaming project 2025, fine people both sides, IVF, bloodbath (all debunked lies even Snopes admits to) weren't to the level of lies like....?
fine people both sides
Funny you mention that. The people defending "fine people both sides" are using the same "fake but accurate" playbook that you all are using now for the "eating pets" claim. That even if Trump didn't *technically* call Nazis "fine people", it still demonstrates an overall 'truthiness' about Trump's sympathy towards right-wing extremists. So even if the Haitian migrants didn't *technically* eat any household pets, it still demonstrates an overall 'truthiness' about how problematic the migrants are. You all really are just two sides of the same coin.
>>The people defending “fine people both sides” ... same ... the “eating pets” claim.
nope. one a (six year?) malicious misquote and the other a (three-day) meme
"That even if Trump didn’t *technically* call Nazis “fine people”"
He SPECIFICALLY condemned them.
"it still demonstrates an overall ‘truthiness’ about Trump’s sympathy towards right-wing extremists. "
You could have just typed "lie". Much shorter and more accurate word.
Jeff is probably the most ignorant and dishonest person here. He has been given the videos and transcripts of Trumps actual words dozens of times over the years. He doesn’t care.
Also never use statistics with him because he doesn't understand them.
Jesse doesn't even realize what I just did.
He is the same type of person who believes Trump called Nazis 'fine people'. It's the same argument that your team is currently using to defend the 'eating pets' claim.
And when Jesse calls me dumb or says I don't understand something, it's because he cannot successfully argue against what I claimed on the merits, so he has to make up shit and generate an alternate reality and try to will it into being by repetition.
Jesse has got to be one of the most statistically illiterate people on the planet. But he will never admit it and so he has to try to tear everyone else down in order to 'win'.
You’re not dumb, you just ignore facts that you disagree with.
That's not fair. He is also pretty fucking dumb.
He once claimed he was doxxed because someone found his X account using the same name. Lol.
Um Nazi were socialists, its the their name. Socialism is closely related to Marxism which would fall under Left Wing Extremism. Furthermore is it not the Left Wing supporting the Jew hating "Free Palestine" bowel movement?
The fact is Adolph knew Germans wouldn’t accept Socialism because they knew what was happening in Russia.
So he altered his views accordingly.
No state ownership of the means of production, but the state did control the means of production.
He also added a bunch of stuff that appealed to traditionalists.
The second word war was really a socialist civil war.
"Nazi" is an abbreviation of the German term Nationalsozialist.
Walz and I are both gun owners, we’re not taking anyone’s guns away
Oh really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C6tEmqziE0
my kittycat went out hunting a few weeks ago & didn't come back ... I just figured I need to be mad at the neighborhood coyotes but now this
I may or may not be responsible for your missing cat and I find the willful stupidity around fact checking "ducks" vs. "pets" to be morally repugnant on several levels.
this one was too cute for even you to kill. followed me everywhere.
I had made a joke about it, but I see below you were serious about losing your pet, so I deleted it as the joke was tasteless (no pun intended).
no worries I would have laughed. it's never too soon.
I had a cat return after several weeks once. I think she got stuck in the neighbors garage.
hopeful I am one of those stories but it is getting less likely, bummer
Fingers crossed they’re just on a Homeward Bound style adventure.
word, thanks.
>>Killing people’s pets is wrong; killing wild birds is not. Duck-hunting isn’t even some specifically Haitian custom
also nobody hunts geese (or ducks) in local public parks jeebus fucking cripes that may the stupidest thing I’ve ever read w/your name attached.
"also nobody hunts geese (or ducks) in local public parks"
That's a good thing, isn't it?
ya Dick Cheney would be picking kids off the monkey bars "accidentally"
"picking kids off "
Ducks and geese I understand, but baby goats?
Please don’t talk about kids.
We know about your proclivities.
You know, I bet someone does. I mean, they're just sitting there, ripe for the taking.
lol bound to happen I suppose. seems even more unfair.
Did you forget his credible Balsey Ford articles? Yes multiple.
probably memory holed yes. anything in favor of her is stupid by axiom.
2024 is the gift that keeps on giving:
‘Don’t eat cats and dogs,’ Biden tells voters while wearing Trump hat
“Trump’s claims angered the father of an 11-year-old boy who was killed last year when a minivan driven by a Haitian immigrant collided with his school bus. He accused Trump and JD Vance, his running mate, of using his son’s death for political gain.”
How does that guy get from “Immigrants are eating people’s pets and park animals” to using his son’s death for political gain? I don’t understand the leap in logic.
How does that guy get from “Immigrants are eating people’s pets and park animals” to using his son’s death for political gain? I don’t understand the leap in logic.
He just hears the words “Haitian immigrant” and in a totally-not-rabidly, insanely, racist, xenophobic, and bigotted fashion, ties everything even remotely related to it into a explosive package of venom waiting to spew forth in all directions.
It’s almost sad/insulting/immoral/offensive on behalf of the journalist. Like, if they guy had developed Tourette’s as a result of the accident and they pulled him up saying, “GODDAMNEDFUCKINGTRUMPHATIANIMMGRANTSFUCKINGKILLEDMYSON! HE’SDEAD!” and then asking “Can we quote you on that?” Which is kinda incredible after all the idiocy we've been through about ‘microtrauma’, triggering, and gaslighting.
Hilarious. It's honestly the best bit of earned PR in his entire presidency. He's very likeable in that clip
"The moderation was incredibly one-sided and unfair."
What's wrong with that? Will the next president enter discussions with Putin, Netanyahu and others go into them assuming their opposite is dedicated to fairness and even handedness? The notion that we owe presidential candidates softball questions and kid glove treatment, ignoring their lies and deceptions out of 'fairness' is absurd.
What’s wrong with that? Will the next president enter discussions with Putin, Netanyahu and others go into them assuming their opposite is dedicated to fairness and even handedness? The notion that we owe presidential candidates softball questions and kid glove treatment, ignoring their lies and deceptions out of ‘fairness’ is absurd.
I 100% agree with all of this. Presidential candidates should not be given biased handling, softball questions, and kid-glove treatment, while their lies and deceptions are ignored. After all, the candidate in the debate might need to take a hard stance talking to Netanyahu, Putin, Zelenskyy, Modi, or even our own neighbors.
Zero self-awareness detected here.
"a hard stance talking to... even our own neighbors."
Forget about Putin and our enemies to the north and south. Trump has told us repeatedly that the press itself, including ABC, are traitorous communists, enemies of the people etc. But forget all that. Now the beef is that they are unfair and lack even handedness? It doesn't add up.
Communists aren’t people.
Worse, they're not fair.
You’re all about fairness, no matter how many people have to die.
We all have to die, Vulgar Madman. Nothing lives forever.
And most are as imbecilic as you.
They are enemies of the people.
Just not because of their abject hatred of Trump.
>>What’s wrong with that?
nothing. T killed it anyway.
"What’s wrong with that? Will the next president enter discussions with Putin, Netanyahu and others go into them assuming their opposite is dedicated to fairness and even handedness?"
One candidate won't speak to anybody who is not fawning in approval of her. Also cannot negotiate to save her life.
Putin didn't attack anybody under Trump. He did under everybody else. Must be a coincidence.
"The notion that we owe presidential candidates softball questions and kid glove treatment, ignoring their lies and deceptions out of ‘fairness’ is absurd."
We do not. However, we do not owe it to ALL candidates, not JUST to ones two news readers do not like.
"One candidate won’t speak to anybody who is not fawning in approval of her. "
That's her choice. You are free to choose another or her if you want.
" Must be a coincidence."
Putin probably thought he could manipulate Trump without attacking. I doubt it's a coincidence.
"Also cannot negotiate to save her life."
That's why we have diplomats. When amateurs like Trump and his son in law take on the task of 'negotiations' we give all sorts of concessions without getting anything in return. See Trump's recognition of Israel's sovereignty of Golan heights, moving the capital to Jerusalem, releasing Pollard etc. What'd we get in return? Bupkis, that's what!
"However, we do not owe it to ALL candidates, not JUST to ones two news readers do not like."
That's why you need more venues, and more than just two candidates involved. Every venue will have different biases, different people which should give viewers different perspectives. Assuming that one venue, ABC in this case, is going to satisfy all the requirements of everyone is crazy. The more the merrier, I say, and that includes venues that are avowedly unfair and uneven handed. It will give viewers a better look at how the candidates will do in the real world, where our adversaries and friends alike have no interest in fair and even handedness. They are out for themselves and the stakes are much higher than ABC's ratings or reputation with Trump supporters.
Except Kamala won't agree to a debate hosted by Newsmax or even Fox News.
That's her choice. You can either support her or not. That's your choice. My question is why on earth Trump agreed to ABC, an outfit he repeatedly tells us is staffed by communist, America hating traitors.
Because it's his choice?
Yes, if you believe it's him who's making the decisions. I have difficulty understanding why Trump would willingly subject himself to the public humiliation meted out by the Marxist America haters of ABC, don't you?
I mean Kamala admitted happily she never met with Putin when she was trying to stop the invasion. That worked out well.
To be fair Putin would be doubled over by laughter after the translator delivered her first remark. Probably not a productive endeavour. Better all around if she stays in DC and works on ven diagrams.
Would the translator even translate her word salads?
I’m pretty sure Hawk Tuah is universal.
Should we send the ABC moderators to all negotiations President Kamala has with Putin or Netanyahu?
Hmmmm...rumors are swirling about X that a whistleblower from ABC News is preparing to file an affidavit stating Kamala received the questions in advance.
Dunno if true, obviously.
saw that. equally likely KH gave ABC the questions lol. "here, ask me these"
Do I think it is true? Could be. Don't know.
BUT...Her answers were AWFULLY rehearsed.
Not remotely actually answering of any questions, but hella rehearsed.
No shit. Take away ABCs broadcast license. Or, abolish licensure altogether. You pick.
Assuming affidavit turns up, surely N C and CBS will jump right on this story and attack their competition, right?? They wouldn't be matching in lockstep, right? Right Liberty dumbBelle?
No doubt both candidates had a very good idea of what questions would be asked and what topics would be addressed. This isn't rocket science. Were there any questions asked of either that you think took them by surprise? The debates are TV shows that are even more formulaic that their cop shows. Nobody is surprised when the cops triumph over the robbers.
There is precedent for it happening in the past. 2016 Democratic primary debate had Donna Brazil, one of the CNN moderators, slip Hilary the questions in advance.
I don't see the necessity for it. Any more than you need someone telling you the cops win in the end. Were there any questions asked of either of the candidates that you believe prior knowledge would have helped them? Both candidates seemed to studiously avoid answering the question asked of them, and use them merely as jumping off points for their own vaguely related hobby horses. I didn't watch the whole thing and not all that carefully, so if you have anything specific in mind, you can lay it out for me. To me the thing was entirely predictable and formulaic.
"What is A Leppo?"
If a candidate chooses not to prepare, that's on them. The moderators are merely following a script that a sincere and diligent candidate should be familiar with.
I think we underestimate the difficulties of running for office. People now ask 'how can Biden remain president if he can't even campaign?' I think this is exactly backwards. It's presidenting that's the easier job, while campaigning for the president is physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting.
But are you ignoring that dems giving a candidate a question in advance has been done before.
We're talking about now, though. What questions do you suspect were needed to be leaked beforehand? I already asked Jefferson Paul the same question and he never answered, so don't put a lot of stock in what appears to be an idle rumor. But you do, apparently. I didn't see the whole debate and didn't pay that much attention to what I did watch, so help me out here. What I saw was pedestrian, formulaic and predictable.
How about leaking the questions to Trump? Do you also believe that? Given that ABC is full of evil America haters, it's conceivable they leaked the questions to Trump, only the wrong questions, you see, screwing up his preparations and ensuring his humiliation before millions of American voters.
Dude, I only check the comments when I'm at work. I posted those last night before leaving. To answer your question, knowing the questions in advance would have helped someone like Kamala who has struggled mightily in the past with speaking off the cuff, without a teleprompter. Did you see her interview on CNN with Bash? She had a really tough time answering those mostly softball questions. I don't think she got those questions in advance, as CNN allowed her camp to pick what parts of the interview were aired.
Yeah, she would have been able to guess some of the topics. But knowing the order of the questions and being able to prepare her canned answers in order would definitely have helped her. Also, knowing what questions ABC would NOT ask her helps her devote all her debate prep time to the real questions.
I don't know that she got the questions in advance. Based on how one-sided and biased the moderators were, it certainly wouldn't have surprised me. Also the difference in her performance in the debate and the sit down interview with Dana Bash seems to point to this as well.
"I don’t know that she got the questions in advance. "
I don't know either. I also don't see the point in idle speculation. You may be right, it's all theater, anyway, and there are more serious charges you could make about the whole debate thing, not just Tuesday's ABC show. But I warn against dismissing Harris as an idiot as Trump does, incapable of thinking on her feet. A lawyer, used to making a case, extemporaneously in court before a judge and jury, a senator and VP. Trump took her for a moron and paid the price.
Sorry that I dismissed you prematurely for not responding to my question.
Well we can thank damikesc here for doing his part to spread unverified rumors.
The overpopulation of geese in public parks is a real problem. I wish more people would take some.
Not just public parks but parking lots and large ditches and drainage lots... and I agree.
But ‘asylum seekers’ and refugees strangling them willy-nilly while we fine hunters for using lead buckshot and killing more than two *and* fine geese removal companies for operating without a license is fundamentally anti-liberty, inhuman, anti-social and dishonest by a number of tenets not all of which I agree with.
Once again, the issue isn’t and never was the geese. It wasn’t even Haitians or immigrants. The issue is that citizens are forced to pay in even to government schemes they don’t agree with while non-citizens are more free to reap the benefits, or not, and pay in, or not.
The "bloodbath" fact check claim is unwarranted. Trump has continuously preached violence for years, and especially in connection with the January 6, 2021 Capitol attack. His comments about this during the debate fell just short of illegally advocating sedition even by Reason's libertarian free speech standards, which I agree with. Advocating violent overthrow of the government by condoning it is not now and has never had First Amendment protection when there is or has been a realistic attempt to carry it out.
Ah, look kids. An idiot.
Yup, ad hominem. Because expending the effort to make your gibberish into some semblance of an argument is not worth my time.
Such as? Meanwhile one of your whackos shot at him. Kamala bailed out violent rioters. Biden gave a red speech. Dems defend antifa violence.
Act Blue employees are the dumbest of people here.
"...Trump has continuously preached violence for years..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Stuff your TDS up your ass to give your head some company, and then FOAD, shit-pile.
...Jake Tapper and Dana Bash asked questions but did not interrupt or attempt to fact-check the candidates—they left that to Trump and Biden.
AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED.
...Trump said that Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, were eating pets—a completely erroneous claim.
Trump, ya factchecked!
Just don't know how robby can call the claims of multiple people erroneous but then call the claims of one person who tried getting people to agree with her testimony and they all denied it to go after Kavanaugh.
Would really love Robby to give us his metrics on erroneous vs credible. I think I know.
Springfield police have said there are no reports of stolen pets.
Maybe they didn't want any remaining pets shot.
"Either fact-check both candidates or don't bother."
And I want a pony, too.
Vermin Extreme can hook you up!
"Duck-hunting isn't even some specifically Haitian custom, as conservatives well know."
Duck hunting no, voodoo yes.
As Robby (to his credit) noted, these are allegations made by residents of Springfield, not Donald Trump, the dreaded right wing, bloggers, pundits, or WaPo. They are either telling the truth, lying, or attributing some isolated incidents that had nothing to do with Haitians.
Let's say they're all lying. To what end? Because they're all racist xenophobes? They want to kick Haitians out of their communities? They all did their research on Haitian voodoo and independently decided upon a campaign of misinformation based upon that aspect of their culture?
Don't fail to see the forest for trees. When you cram in 20,000 Haitians in a town that small, the entire community will feel the strain. As far as I can tell, the stories about Haitians driving without a license, driving erratically, and clogging welfare offices have not been disputed. Some are alleging that they're replacing American tenants and workers. If no Haitian ever ate dogs and cats there, that town is still experiencing a minor crisis.
"that town is still experiencing a minor crisis."
Fuck the town. I'm worried about how this will affect Trump's standing with non pet eating Haitian voters.
Fuck trueman with a barb-wire wrapped broomstick.
"fake but accurate"
I don't know how they do things in Springfield, Ohio but most of the "park" ducks and (some) geese I'm familiar with are domesticated breeds, not wild animals. Muscovies, Mallards, Pekins etc. The Canada goose is a wild animal even when they give up the migratory life and become vicious urban panhandlers and street-shitters.
ABC News failed to disclose that Kamala Harris and ABC News anchor Linsey Davis, who co-moderated Tuesday night’s debate between Harris and President Trump, are sorority sisters in the influential Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority.
How convenient.
Fact checking by the partisans David Muir and Linsey Davis who were simply masquerading as moderators was to it's core wrong.
As an independent these antics don't give me a better impression of Vice President Kamala Harris or the corporate media shills. It actually softens my negative opinion of mediocre former President Donald Trump because of the levels that the anti-Trump crowd will stoop to.
Fact Checking by moderators should not be done nor for moderators to take the role of debating one of the candidates. Fact Checking is the responsibility of the candidates during the debate. The media can write articles with their own biased version of fact checking after the debate when they are attempting to spin the narrative and gaslight the voters.
There was a period of about 10 minutes of the moderators essentially pressing and arguing with Trump. I'm curious to see how time was divided between Trump, Kamala, and the moderators. It felt like Kamala mostly disappeared for much of the debate.
""Fact Checking is the responsibility of the candidates during the debate.""
And the viewers.
But the "viewers" are already disrespected by the dem party media when they were gaslighting the country about Biden's mental state.
" It actually softens my negative opinion of mediocre former President Donald Trump because of the levels that the anti-Trump crowd will stoop to. "
Pity is not going to win Trump much in the way of votes. The world is an unfriendly place and if Trump has difficulty coping with a couple of reporters calling out his lies, just think of the mince meat leaders like Putin or Netanyahu are going to make of him.
" Fact Checking is the responsibility of the candidates during the debate. "
Clearly not true. The candidates are not allowed to have notes or computers. The moderators have both notes and computers on hand and are able to consult them. You haven't thought this through.
How many presidential debates have you seen where the moderators have fact checked a candidate?
I don't pay much attention to them. Years ago I used to look forward and watch them with great interest. These days I watch a few excerpts and pay more attention to the post debate spin.
In any case, your idea that candidates themselves should fact check their opposites is wrong headed. It could work if the candidates were given a half hour instead of a minute to respond, and had access to a library they could consult. But the networks would never go for that. Neither would the audience. Hence it's not really debates we see, but parallel press conferences, as I heard someone characterize them. The candidates are discouraged from responding to each other, and everything is channeled through the moderators.
Harris's fibs bent the truth. Trump's blew up the truth. Fact checking would have taken up half the time of the debate if every bending of the truth were challenged. Meanwhile, the moderators did not turn off Trump's mike when it was not his turn to speak, and they allowed him a lot of extra time for replies. In balance, I think they both got a fair shake. Both got off the hook for not answering questions. I suggest that in future debates, if a candidate does not answer the question, it will be repeated.
https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-makes-completely-ludicrous-claim-that-kamala-supports---oh-wait-its-true-heres-why-its-essential-for-democracy---op-ed-by-garth-struddelfudd
I prefer:
https://babylonbee.com/news/woman-who-made-career-singing-about-her-bad-decisions-endorses-kamala
CNN's Jake Tapper and Dana Bash asked questions but did not interrupt or attempt to fact-check the candidates—they left that to Trump and Biden.
One might assume the first debate was intentionally trying to end Biden's career and this time around was to build up Kamala's career.
I mean, that's the sort of but not really conspiratorial take. Personally I doubt very many Democrats want Kamala Harris but they'll take her over literally anyone with an (R) after their name even if they are a vapid sex worker and a former prosecutor that would normally be the exact type of person BLM / MeToo wants to see out of the job forever.
The fact she's the type of politician that the usual suspects in the rabble rousing wing of politics hate is apparently not going to slow down the Democrat machine. Women and minorities be damned when it comes to king making, I suppose.
“I mean, that’s the sort of but not really conspiratorial take. ”
It’s not nearly conspiratorial enough, to my refined tastes. Why would Trump agree to take part in a debate intended to replace Biden with Harris? Obviously Harris was offering something that Biden wasn’t prepared to offer. What could that be? A life of golf and leisure as opposed to spending the rest of his life in the slammer eating his meals off an aluminum plate, that Biden was offering. Therefore, the switcheroo, which Republican power brokers like the Cheney clan are clearly in favor of. While the Democrats might lose the support of their radical wing, they more than make up for with their new support from the Republicans.
Good morning.
"But anyone who truly believes that pets are routinely abducted in small-town America by gangs of migrants has fallen for a hoax."
Is anyone claiming that "pets are routinely abducted in... America... by gangs of migrants"? This seems to have been a pretty specific social media-led story out of a specific small town.