Trump Takes the Bait

Plus: A milestone for private space flight, judicial reform and protest in Mexico, the TSA's shameless exploitation of 9/11, and more...

Vice President Kamala Harris did not make a good case for herself at last night's presidential debate. But she did get former President Donald Trump to make the case against himself and that was enough.

Throughout the 90-minute debate hosted by ABC in Philadelphia, Harris effectively baited Trump into going on blustering, bizarre riffs that mostly served to highlight his weaknesses as a candidate.

A representative snippet was when debate moderators asked Harris why the Biden administration waited so long to place more restrictions on migrants' ability to claim asylum in the U.S. given the historic high levels of illegal border crossings.

Harris offered the briefest of defenses of her record, saying only that as a former prosecutor she's prosecuted transnational gangs and that she supported a bill (opposed by Trump) that would have created more border guards.

Then, she quickly pivoted to a dig at Trump's rallies, saying "You will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter, he will talk about [how] windmills cause cancer. And what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom."

That's a non sequitur and kind of cheap shot. It's also a massive deflection from the immediate topic at hand, border enforcement, which is a weak issue for Harris (her portfolio includes reducing migration from Central America) and a strong one for Trump.

Rather than immediately bring the conversation back to the border, Trump defended the size of his crowds ("People don't leave my rallies, we have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics"), attacked Harris for allegedly paying people to attend her rallies, and then went on an extended riff about how immigrants are eating people's pets in Springfield, Ohio, (a seemingly unfounded claim that's been circulating in the less reputable corners of right-wing media).

78 seconds of pure art pic.twitter.com/xvpOgo0eCk

— Kat Abu (@abughazalehkat) September 11, 2024

A similar back-and-forth happened time and again in the debate. Harris would offer a rudimentary defense of her record, perhaps engage in some pablum about Americans' hopes and dreams, and then bait Trump into going on extended "too online" free association that's hard to follow for all but the most dedicated Truth Social users.

The takeaways for libertarians and fellow-traveling liberty-likers were few indeed. No one on stage was particularly interested in putting themselves forward as the candidate for limited government voters.

The debate was a big government slugfest. And in that historic clash between "Facebook dad" and "wine mom," wine mom had the better go of it.

Does it Matter? The immediate post-debate polls of voters all generally show that people thought Harris won the debate.

Instant poll of debate watchers, from CNN-SSRS poll

Who won the debate?
Harris: 63
Trump: 37

Same group on who they expected to win the debate
Harris: 50
Trump: 50

— Manu Raju (@mkraju) September 11, 2024

The betting markets nimbly downgraded Trump's chances of winning the election.

Tough debate for Trump pic.twitter.com/uaWO9g2dU3

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) September 11, 2024

Conservatives and Trump supporters mostly stuck to attacking the debate moderators for their alleged pro-Harris bias—a sign that their candidate did not perform all that well.

Ironically the moderators are winning this debate for Trump by being so insanely lopsided and biased against him. They are now the story of the night. Which is a win for Trump.

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) September 11, 2024

The big question is whether this will matter for the ultimate result of the race.

Veteran debate watchers might remember Trump's past performance in his final debate with Hilary Clinton in 2016 when he was similarly blustering, unfocused, and quick to devolve into hard-to-follow riffs. At the end of the day, he won that election.

This year's presidential election is a close race and has been ever since Harris took over at the top of the ticket. People are very polarized and mostly know how they're going to vote. Odds are there are not too many people ready to be moved by a single debate performance.

---

Scenes from Washington, D.C.: The owners of Indian restaurant Indigo want to turn a vacant former corner store in D.C.'s Bloomingdale neighborhood into their next location. That sounds like a fine thing for a business to do and it's a win for the neighborhood. Opposing it, naturally, is the local Advisory Neighborhood Commission (ANC), which voted to oppose Indigo's request for a liquor license.

The new restaurant would "have a negative effect on peace, quiet, order, and parking in the neighborhood," said the ANC, per reporting from Washington Business Journal.

ANCs, basically hyperlocal central committees of busybodies, don't have any formal veto power over Indigo's plans. But their opinions are supposed to be given "great weight" by city agencies considering whether to grant a liquor license, approve a zoning change, etc.

---

QUICK HITS

• SpaceX launched an all-private crew on Thursday into orbit, with plans to conduct the first space walk of non-government employees.
• Mexico's Legislature approved an overhaul of its judicial system that will have judges elected by popular vote. The changes sparked heated protests in Mexico itself, and provoked worry among investors who fear a politicized judiciary, reports The Wall Street Journal.
• Taylor Swift makes a presidential endorsement.
• The German government is considering tougher controls on immigration.
• Inflation starts to tick back up.
• You can't say it wasn't interesting:

foreign policy debate was crazy tonight pic.twitter.com/YGyoYycRp8

— Matthew Petti (@matthew_petti) September 11, 2024

• The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) continues to exploit the anniversary of 9/11 to make the case for their useless, no-good agency.

HAPPENING SOON: Join TSA as we commemorate the 23rd anniversary of 9/11, remember those who lost their lives on that tragic day, and rededicate ourselves to our vital mission.

Watch the ceremony live at 8:30AM (Eastern) here: https://t.co/pf25ZxtREQ pic.twitter.com/xgHedvJdOe

— TSA (@TSA) September 11, 2024

 

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Vice President Kamala Harris did not make a good case for herself at last night's presidential debate.

She made the case that she can play men like a fiddle.

[Overt]

That's absurd. She plays them like a clarinet.

[Ajsloss]

Skin flute.

[Ska]

She gives blowjobs.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Here I thought she played them more like a straw. Kamalala sucks.

[Ska]

She's Mega Maid?

No, sorry, got it backwards.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Well, Kamalala does go from suck to blow.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Fun found video of Kamala being asked if she was Willie Browns daughter while they were dating.

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1833539331505770508/mediaViewer

[Mother's Lament]

Bad link. Here:

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1833539331505770508

Kamala looks like she wants to punch the questioner.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Weird. Link works for brave. Tried to just link to video.

[Mother's Lament]

I was using Brave too. Might be something to do with cookies?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Could be.

[Kungpowderfinger]

That Willie Brown clip is a fucking riot.

“Flashy Woman” Harris is about to make history…as the first sexwerker elected US President.

[R Mac]

Yas Qween!

— ENB

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Only during special "daddy" fantasy play.

[Mother's Lament]

"Big big Daddy Willy, please make me DA"
"Oh, I don't know, Honeybuns, that's a pretty big job"
"Pwwweease..."
"Oh, okay. Now commere..."

[Medulla Oblongata]

Not sure about the Pweease, but I hear that “hawk tua, slurp” was in there somewhere.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...Harris effectively baited Trump into going on blustering, bizarre riffs that mostly served to highlight his weaknesses as a candidate.

Hopefully as president she can do that to the economy.

[Longtobefree]

https://babylonbee.com/news/kamala-quietly-asks-aides-if-she-should-just-try-sleeping-with-the-economy

[Spiritus Mundi]

No doubt she will blow the economy given the chance.

[LIBtranslator]

You know what they say abt turnabout...

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's also a massive deflection from the immediate topic at hand, border enforcement, which is a weak issue for Harris...

Britches is one of the few journalists that will bother pointing that out today.

[NealAppeal]

From the starting gun she ran into the stands. I got tired after 30 minutes of both candidates going off the rails. Trump should have just stated that most of the things Kamala accused him of were untrue and said if the Democrats accuse him of hypothetical misdeeds it is because they already doing it. No need to go on and on defending yourself. The format was probably awkward for Trump since he didn't have an audience to play to. That probably helped Harris since she wants no audience.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Trump's not disciplined enough to stay on topic like that. Harris clearly won the night because her media allies weren't playing defense or making excuses in the aftermath, which is always the tell. Barring some unexpected event, she'll likely win the election at this point unless her refusal to even engage the media ends up pissing them off enough to the point that they start openly backbiting her and degrading her numbers.

And here's the thing--for all the complaints about Trump having to debate the moderators, well, yeah, no fucking shit. Any GOP candidate who hasn't understood those conditions since Romney's second debate and prepared for them is already conceding the event. Trump and his team's failure to do that is all on them.

And this was the risk that came with nominating Trump again. I've been saying for a while that the smart thing to do would have been to play kingmaker and let the younger members of the GOP carry his agenda forward as a more counter-revolutionary, nationalist party. But he didn't want to face the kind of realities involved in running again, and this is the result of that pride. So now the party's going to have to determine who will be the new standard-bearer for 2028.

With that said, the political realignment appears to have all but completed at this point, it's simply a question of what policy Harris and Walz overreach on that causes a nullification crisis to take place, and will ultimately result in the break needed to begin the process of the national divorce. My guess is it's going to either be open borders or promotion of child trannyism that ultimately does it.

[Commenter_XY]

Red, agree with first two paragraphs. I would say Pres Trump lost the debate, as opposed to VP Harris winning the debate; his closing statement was effective.

There are 7 weeks before the election, an eternity in politics. When will VP Harris hold a press conference (has not since December 2023)? When will she explain her policies (which appear to be a direct lift from the Biden campaign...no daylight, there from Crooked Joe)? What has she actually accomplished on the job to warrant a promotion (she has nothing, so keep asking that)?

A national divorce won't work; it is all or nothing. That is where are now, as a country.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

And should she win, I fear that there will not be a 2028 election to look forward to. She and Democrat ilk will try to turn the country into a one party state. Most folks don’t want the US to look like California or Illinois. As much as some areas may want a divorce from these Democrat assholes, I doubt they’ll let us have that. Should she win, things may go south before Thanksgiving.

[Mike Parsons]

All of this^

She constantly had the look of someone who knows the game is rigged for her. Making faces at things he said, and shooting looks to the mods like "can we believe this guy?" That is the look of someone who confidently hits on 19 knowing the dealer is going to find them a 2.

But Trump and any R should know that. Pointing that out, and hammering away at the *very* obvious points (she is currently in charge and things are bad, record illegals, crime, stagnant economy) should have been the goal. There were so many gimmes that he tripped over so he could address his crowd sizes, inheritance, and basically every trap she laid down for him. This is a mix of absolutely no discipline and no preparation. Anyone with the smallest bit of either would have steam rolled her.

Maybe its forgotten in 2 weeks. But most likely they will hide Kamala in the basement, have her do ultra scripted friendly interviews only, and run clips of this debate to show her competence over and over. This was basically the exact performance she needed to get a W.

[Juliana Frink]

"She constantly had the look of someone who knows the game is rigged for her."

This is the most important takeaway of the whole thing. She has unwittingly made this spectacle her defining image: a tyrant in waiting. Thankfully, people can see this exactly for what it is.

[LIBtranslator]

Shoooor they can. And the Mars landing was faked! And that one votecount out of four the Don won, that was faked too, right?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Hank, posting high is bad, mmmkay.

[mamabug]

I don't think the political realignment is nearly as complete as you think it is. Should Trump lose (which I am fully expecting, believably or otherwise) and the right heroically resists the attempts to be baited into another Jan 6th, I predict the left will massively devolve into infighting.

The right has both absorbed the populist part of it's base and created space within the party for the younger, non-GOPe cohort to gain power and influence. The left, meanwhile, is either coopting or sidelining their populists while remaining an old-age home that only admits into their ranks the DNC faithful.

If Trump is out of play, few of the other republican potential leaders have his innate ability to repulse the left to the same level of derangement needed to keep them from turning on each other.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, but the left always devolves to infighting after getting their bete noir out of office. The question is whether the Gen-X and Millennial Dems manage to finally wrest the party out of the old guard's hands or not. If they do, expect them to go in a far more radical direction, because these were the people who all got involved in politics during Dubya's presidency.

Trump will absolutely get sidelined after this whether he likes it or not. He's already gotten more grace from GOP voters than they normally give to their candidates by being nominated again, mainly due to him having to deal with a color revolution in 2020. But if he can't do to Harris what Tulsi did, they'll move on. Promoting their interests isn't going to matter if he's not in office to at least fight for it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Also, the neocons aren't going anywhere from the Democrats any time soon even if Trump is no longer in the picture. They're too despised by the GOP base, and they're getting enough payouts from the Dems now to stay on that side for a while.

[Number 2]

Early in the debate Harris blamed Trump for forcing Biden to “inherit” the COVID pandemic. Here was a golden opportunity for Trump to take credit for Operation Warp Speed and the development of the vaccines - and to remind people that Harris’ initial response to the vaccines was to call it a lie and oppose their use. But instead he went off on some other tangent.

But how many times over the past 10 years has Trump had an opportunity to try to present himself as a serious person, and has flubbed it?

[Bubba Jones]

But she did a great job calling out how he killed the border bill.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

A border bill that had nothing to do with the border.

[Longtobefree]

As I recall, it enshrined a few million illegal crossings per year - - - - - - - -

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

False. It legalized illegally crossing.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Sorry, should’ve said nothing to do with actually defending the border. It had everything to do with the desires of the Uniparty.

[DesigNate]

There’s still a border bill sitting on Chuck Schumer’s desk…

[Fist of Etiquette]

Odds are there are not too many people ready to be moved by a single debate performance.

An assassination attempt didn't really move the needle. This election won't be about big events any more than it will be about policy.

[Randy Sax]

What is moving the needle? How many "undecideds" actually exist?

[Longtobefree]

The real question is how many suitcases are under the tables?

[Mother's Lament]

That's why poor Jeffy's only been putting in half time here. He's got stacks and stacks to fill out.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

According to recent article from the NYT, there are about "18%" who are undecided.

Well, they exaggerate, distort and lie about everything else, so why not that?

But as for last nights debate, "odds are there are not too many people ready to be moved by a single debate performance" seems about right.

[Randy Sax]

I'd bet it's mostly undecided between "I will vote" vs "I won't vote" not between who to vote for.

[Rick James]

An assassination attempt didn’t really move the needle. This election won’t be about big events

Bigger than the assassination attempt?

[Fist of Etiquette]

There was an assassination attempt?

[LIBtranslator]

The women who commented within my earshot were disappointed the kid didn't elevate Orange Hitler to martyrdom like Horst Wessel or Ernst Vom Rath. I am covering side bets among educated folks with names and publications to their credit. Trouble is, none of those want to bet cash that the women Christian National Socialism seeks to enslave and kill will let the bastard win--what with the 19th Amendment and all.

[Fist of Etiquette]

ANCs, basically hyperlocal central committees of busybodies, don't have any formal veto power over Indigo's plans.

I don't have any respect for a brick-and-mortar that can't bribe its way past local nimbys.

[Moonrocks]

Inflation starts to tick back up
starts

Are you fucking kidding? Not a week has gone by without something or other on my shopping list jumping up in price for the last four years.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Time to again adjust which products count for official inflation numbers.

[Longtobefree]

If they take out everything, the inflation rate will be zero!

[Mother's Lament]

Britches mom still cooks him supper so he hasn't bought groceries since college.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Food gas and housing don't count in the inflation numbers

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You're right. We should set inflation policy according to Moonrocks' shopping list.

[R Mac]

Lying Jeffy supports the government lying about inflation. Shocking!

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

To be fair. Him and math are like oil and water so he doesn't even understand the issue.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh how cute, Jesse tries to pull a Kamamalama and bait me. So when did you first figure out you were a fan of KamKam?

[R Mac]

This made sense.

[Fist of Etiquette]

SpaceX launched an all-private crew on Thursday into orbit...

And maybe we should respect that crew's privacy.

[Randy Sax]

When you nut in space it pushes you backwards.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Ready for reentry?

[Mother's Lament]

Teenage boys will get us to mars.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

In space Noone can hear you meme

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Kathleen Kennedy begs to differ. Can even have fires in space.

[R Mac]

We don’t even know their pronouns.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

David Muir won the debate

[Ska]

I didn't watch it. I feel like I have to be in contention for biggest win.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

You, me and probably more then half the nation.

[Rick James]

Two kinds of people watch the debates: Journalists and Democrats.

Wait, that's one kind of person. Never mind.

[Mother's Lament]

And Linsey Davis, don't forget the hard work she put in. Kamala isn't just going to win this thing herself.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The changes sparked heated protests in Mexico itself, and provoked worry among investors who fear a politicized judiciary...

Heaven forbid Mexican officials be tempted by personal gain.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Taylor Swift makes a presidential endorsement.

At least if she had ever been in the Trump camp Swifties could get a nifty little breakup song out of her.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The German government is considering tougher controls on immigration.

You know who else wanted purity?

[Spiritus Mundi]

Dove soap.

[Roberta]

You mean Ivory. And now it doesn’t even float!

Actually before Dove, Lever had Swan, which did float.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Water filters.

[Anomalous]

Brig. Gen. Jack D. Ripper?

[Randy Sax]

Walter White?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Robespierre?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

That guy in charge of Eden?

[Kungpowderfinger]

Kid Charlemagne?

[Dillinger]

crossed a diamond with a pearl ...

[Moonrocks]

The German government, regarding beer?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Jewelers?

[Rick James]

Ponytail libertarianism?

[LIBtranslator]

His 1920 platform plank was plain to understand: 8. Any further immigration of non-Germans is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, be forced to leave the Reich immediately. 23. We demand legal measures against the conscious political lie and its propagation through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand that:
a. all editors and contributors of German language newspapers be folk comrades;

[Fist of Etiquette]

Inflation starts to tick back up.

That's why they're eating dogs.

[HorseConch]

I'm looking forward to my chance to buy some Schnauzer futures on the CME once the market gets booming enough.

[Kungpowderfinger]

Even Libertarians should avoid Haitian food trucks.

[Jerry B.]

Trump will never win a debate. At least according to the MSM, which in this case will include Reason.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Biased moderating aside, he did this to himself. If he hadn't taken the bait she would have been lost on a strategy. Hopefully he learns.

[Zeb]

Yeah, Trump is not very good at "give them enough rope to hang themselves". If he could just learn to shut up sometimes I think he could broaden his appeal a bit.

[Bubba Jones]

She called early that "he's going to rant about illegal immigrants all night" and ... he did.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

His close was the strongest part. Asked if people were better off under Biden Harris the last 4 years, call back to Reagan.

But having a 3 v 1 like that will tend to infuriate anybody. It started 10 minutes into it.

[Anomalous]

His problem is that he can't focus. If he had stuck to one theme like the one in his closing, the outcome would have been different, perhaps.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Imagine spending 2 hours of you debating shrike, Jeff and sarc.

How long would your focus last?

CNN moderators at least stuck to just asking questions. Even Romney got rattled by Candy Crowley.

[Mother's Lament]

"Imagine spending 2 hours of you debating shrike, Jeff and sarc."

Jiminy cricket!

[sarcasmic]

Wouldn't be much of a debate.

"Um..."

"You're a leftist!"

"I..."

"You're a Democrat!"

"Well..."

"You voted for Biden!"

"Actually..."

"You've got TDS!"

*screamer declares victory and storms off*

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Poor sarc.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yeah that would pretty much be it. If ML and I had a 2-hour debate, it would be about 1 hour 59 minutes of him screaming at me and calling me a Nazi.

[Mother's Lament]

You are a Nazi. Literally, not figuratively. Swap "Jews" out for "Israelis" and your beliefs line right up.

[DesigNate]

That’s not fair ML.

Jeff would have to believe in borders to be a Nationalist.

[sarcasmic]

Yep. If me and Jesse had a debate I would have to waste all my time refuting all his lies and false premises because he'd claim implicit agreement for anything I did not address, and I'd never have a chance to say anything else.

[Mother's Lament]

This is what sarcasmic actually thinks happens the next day.

It reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC0968-36s4

[Commenter_XY]

Pres Trump knows better, is the point. That is part of his unpredictability (which is what keeps adversaries wondering WTF he might actually do, which keeps us safer ultimately). Pres Trump lost the debate, as opposed to VP Harris winning it outright. He did it to himself and he knows better, that part should piss off The Donald.

[sarcasmic]

His close was the strongest part. Asked if people were better off under Biden Harris the last 4 years, call back to Reagan.

If he had won the election there still would have been inflation thanks to all those checks with his name on them.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yes. You’ve made this dem defending talking point before. And when I pointed out the actions they’ve done the last 4 years you started with dehumanizing language to avoid the harsh truths.

Nothing would be different. We get it. Dems are never at fault. Good intentions. All that bullshit you tell yourself.

IRA had no effect.
6M new illegals had no effect.
Expanding Medicaid had no effect.
Studen Loan forgiveness had no effect.
Retarding energy production on federal lands had no effect.
Disallowing permits on new energy refineries had no effect.
Funding Ukraine had no effect.
Increased regulations had no effect (only tariffs increase prices in your dumb little world)

We get it. You can stop repeating the same retarded claim over and over.

[sarcasmic]

That’s quite the strawman you’ve erected there, all to claim that the checks with Donald Trump’s name on them had no effect on the money supply, and thus did not cause any inflation.

Any failure on my part to refute lies and false premises should not be misconstrued as implicit agreement of said lies and false premises.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Man. You came back with even more retarded arguments. Congrats buddy.

[Medulla Oblongata]

He lost the debates in 202 because he couldn't just keep his mouth shut and let Joe wander away.

[Quicktown Brix]

He did pretty well against our dementia-ridden incumbent with a poor approval rating and the short term memory of a house fly.

Unfortunately, as bad a Kamala is as politician and would be as a president, she is smart enough to know how to dangle yarn in front of a kitten to get it to swat and nip.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

We've already seen with Tulsi that someone who's more focused can cut Harris down quite easily. It's all on video. But that's not Trump.

[Quicktown Brix]

Yes, and the sad fact is she'd be easy to destroy. Like Dave Smith pointed out: just ask her why she lied to the American people that Joe Biden was fine, sharp as a tack etc.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Anytime Trump went on a talking point in that manner Muir cut him off and said they had other topics to get to. Happened a dozen times at least.

[DesigNate]

Well letting him do that may have made Kamala look bad.

[LIBtranslator]

Dave Smith and Charles Manson--oh! and Robert Dear the Jesus Caucus Army of God Baby Saver--where faceless mindless socks go for predictions.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Trump will never win a debate.

Except that first one.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) continues to exploit the anniversary of 9/11 to make the case for their useless, no-good agency.

Make America Groped Again

[Spiritus Mundi]

Gloria Allred has entered the chat....

[LIBtranslator]

Ah yes, the Transport Sozialist Arbeiterpartei, brought to y'awl by Georgie Waffen Bush Jewnyer, as the cherry on top of the 2008 faith-based asset-forfeiture grab that wrecked all mortgage-based equity by nationalizing "drug" houses!

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

“The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) continues to exploit the anniversary of 9/11”

I fly quite a bit, and I don’t pay for the cut-the-line pass (“TSA Pre-Check”).

I’m required to stand inside a chamber, hold my arms up, while my entire body is scanned for contraband.

Immediately before this full body scan, I take my shoes off…

Does this make any sense at all??? If it’s a full body scan, why take off your shoes? I’m asking honestly, for anyone with technical knowledge.

[Longtobefree]

Because it reinforces the power structure, and keeps you conditioned to obey the most ridiculous instructions from a government flunky. It has nothing to do with technology or security.
That is just how fascism works.

[R Mac]

^

[Mickey Rat]

My brain rationalizeds perhaps the scan does not see feet very well. My gut suspects it is to further the humiliation of the traveler.

[ducksalad]

It’s in honor of Richard Reid, who gives a loud evil scientist laugh in triumph everytime he reads about a new record for the number of people de-shod in one day by TSA.

Thank god he didn’t put that bomb somewhere else.

Serious answers:
1. As Long says, it really is partly about conditioning. On certain days they don't want the shoes, and bark at you if you take them off. Stand up, no sit down, hey I told you to stand up.
2. The technological excuse is that the millimeter waves can't penetrate thick leather very well. Of course they can't penetrate a closed mouth or clenched buttocks either; it's more about what they judge people will put up with.

[LIBtranslator]

So they can beat a confession out of you by swatting the soles of your feet. Standard Transport Sozialist Arbeiterpartei Christian inquisition methods. The fire marshal meddled too much for burning at the stake to detect a hemp seed.

[BYODB]

One guy had a bomb in his shoe, and no TSA didn't catch that just like they haven't caught most of the 'test' bombs they use to test out TSA efficiency.

Furthermore, it's unlikely that their millimeter wave tech can actually penetrate something as thick as shoe leather. I could be wrong there, but it doesn't penetrate people so there isn't a great chance it can penetrate cow skin either.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Ryan Saavedra
@RealSaavedra
Went through the debate transcript and counted:

Trump was fact-checked 4 times
Harris was fact-checked 0 times

Muir/Davis pressed Trump 6 times for follow-ups
Muir/Davis pressed Harris 0 times for follow-ups

Trump made ≈14 false statements
Harris made ≈16 false statements

A few things really showed the ABC bias last night, but we knew that going in as the head of ABC News is a close friend of Kamala.

The moderators were set on helping Kamala. Trump questions were about prior scandals with constant interruptions, while Kamala was given soft interview style questions without purpose.

Some examples.

J6 was brought up and 10 minutes were spent on it. Trump was clear regarding his speech, how he offered troops, etc. Muir says the question was not about Pelosi despite it being the answer Trump gave regarding Pelosi being in charge of security.

J6 was brought up, but the assassination attempt was not. The one time, when asked about his legal issues (not dem lawfare), Muir quickly interjected to stop the answer saying they had to get to other topics.

When asked about Ukraine Trump said his goal was to end the war and stop the deaths. 3 times Muir ignored and kept asking solely if Trump wanted Ukraine to win, ignoring Trumps response to end the war.

The one maybe hard question received was on flip flopping where she didn't answer the question then lied about being middle class and talked about her friend getting sexually assaulted, completely avoiding the question.

Kamala was able to lie at will with Project 2025, bloodbath, fine good people.

Anytime Kamala was faltering, one of the moderators stepped in. When Trump got a hit the moderators would set up a simple question to help Kamala respond.

The moderators even had a candy Crowley moment when she said there were no abortions after birth. This I'd false as 5 states do not require palliative care, meaning a born alive baby is allowed to die post birth. And she made this comment after Trump talked about abortions in the 9th month.

Of course the likes of jeffsarc were on last night saying how amazing Kamala was, just like Jennifer Rubin was. But the main take away was the utter open bias of the corporate media.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

attacked Harris for allegedly paying people to attend her rallies, and then went on an extended riff about how immigrants are eating people's pets in Springfield, Ohio, (a seemingly unfounded claim that's been circulating in the less reputable corners of right-wing media).

Hey Liz...

They have police calls regarding it.

https://thefederalist.com/2024/09/10/exclusive-police-audio-report-confirm-haitian-goose-hunting-in-ohio-they-all-had-geese-in-their-hands/

If you watched the debate you saw how slimy corporate media is with this. Muir stated "the city manager stated there were no credible reports", with credible doing the heavy lifting for denials.

And let's remember the medias use of credible, including Soave, for stories like Balsey Ford. And adjective used to make idiots like shrike and others dismiss the stories for which there is evidence.

[Social Justice is neither]

Give Liz a break, this is Christian. Liz may be on the left but Christian is a full on antifa cheering propagandist for them.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Fair. Apologies Liz.

[Longtobefree]

Never apologize, mister. It is a sign of weakness.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

What if I didn't mean it?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Just grunt and ask for a sandwich?

[Spiritus Mundi]

Townhalls in Ohio = less reputable corners of right-wing media.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

It’s not Liz today. It’s Britches. I wouldn’t expect Britches to be either knowledgeable or fair.

[Zeb]

Are the geese pets? I could be behind on this, but my impression is that what is supposedly debunked is eating of actual pets, like cats and dogs and that the (illegal) hunting of geese and ducks actually has been happening. I have no idea if there is good evidence or not for the claims about eating pets.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I mean the story is ducks, geese, and pets. Focusing on just one of the three to dismiss all 3 seems a bit dishonest. But that’s what the city manager and Muir did.

There was one woman on video eating a neighbors cats. But no information on if she was a migrant.

[mad.casual]

There's also the same old, same old "Can you believe Trump fed the whole block of food to the goldfish?" aspect to the issue.

As usual, it wasn't like these were MAGA-hat wearing Trump supporters filing these claims. It was people who ride their bike to work, people who otherwise be identified as someone who was a burgeoning rapper, and 90 yr. old ladies phoning up their city manager and going to board meetings to say, "Hey, these people are eating the wildlife, tipping over garbage cans, and tossing flotsam and jetsam into peoples' yards and the streets."

This is the real-world flip side of the cry of "Unfair!" shouted by the natives of Martha's Vineyard and not only do Kamala, the DNC, and the friendly media not give a shit. They're actively downplaying it.

[Zeb]

I agree it's dishonest/misdirection. I'm just trying to figure out what the actual claim is.
Maybe it doesn't matter, but I think it could help Trump if he just toned it down a bit and stuck to claims that have good evidence beyond the latest trending videos on twitter. I don't think that people who like his style and personality would be turned off from voting and I think he could broaden his appeal a bit being a little more careful about what he says.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

If you watch the videos of the angry citizens it is the fact there ate 10k migrants imported into a city if 60k that are causing chaos through littering, killing wildlife, destroying parks, increasing crime, etc.

Media wants to focus on the smallest aspect to dismiss the citizen concerns. Learned it from Fact Checkers.

[Zeb]

And he should have stuck to that. Forcing lots of migrants into relatively small towns/cities is obviously happening and seems like something that a lot of people would see as a negative.

[LIBtranslator]

"A lot of people" is Christianofascist code for my and my circle jerk buddies at the Klavern. It's the Lizard's fave armwave...

[DesigNate]

lol, imagine trying to smear Zeb with that insult.

Goddamn man, just stop.

[R Mac]

15k

[Medulla Oblongata]

"True, but..."

[sarcasmic]

it could help Trump if he just toned it down a bit and stuck to claims that have good evidence

Evidence? Seriously? Evidence is proof, and lack of evidence is proof of a coverup.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Poor sarc.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Pour Sarc.

[R Mac]

Poor, pour, sarc.

[Mother's Lament]

"Evidence? Seriously? Evidence is proof, and lack of evidence is proof of a coverup."

Except for all the mountains of evidence that has been continually posted here that you deliberately ignore because CNN didn't say so.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The only evidence that is needed are one-sided anecdotes that confirm the narrative.

[Mother's Lament]

And video, court testimony, documentation, etc. but your going to ignore all that for your narrative.

[ducksalad]

“Focusing on just one of the three to dismiss all 3 seems a bit dishonest. ”

LOL.
This whole issue is about you – not just your side, but also you personally – focusing on just one incident to dismiss all immigrants as pet-eating monsters. That’s what’s dishonest.

[R Mac]

The issue isn’t about the people that had 15k Haitians trafficked into their city for political power?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

DemSalad is another sarc like open borders acolyte who will never admit there is a single negative aspect of unchecked illegal immigration. He is consistent on this point.

[Mother's Lament]

15,000 jobless third-worlders into a city of only 60,000, but demsalad says "suck it up, racists".

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Did this make sense to you demsalad? I mean it is shrike yesterday showing RS, Muir laast night, and all your other corporate media narrative fact checkers solely focused on the city manager saying no credible reports of pets retard.

Why are all you liberaltarians so dishonest? It was shrike who brought it up yesterday. CJ and the moderators regarding the debate.

Such a fucking dishonest dumbass. Lol. All so you can avoid the actual problems of your beloved open borders. You, sarc, the left in general do everything you can to deny the costs associated with unfettered immigration from crime to costs. Because you're fundamentally dishonest and ignorant people.

[R Mac]

This story really isn’t about open borders. These people were flown from Haiti to Springfield using tax dollars.

[ducksalad]

Even if every single thing about the Springfield story was true, including the eating of petnapped cats, it would still not be some national crisis requiring a strongman leader and dramatic action. It would be a local news story, and even then only because it’s man-bites-dog.

The parts that actually might be true? A big so what. Nothing shocking about eating ducks and geese. Of course stealing ducks and geese is wrong but stealing fowl been an everyday crime since the dawn of civilization.

So much wrong, but sadly characteristic, with your take here. Adding a few lies about the cats to juice it up. Cherry-picking a local incident to make a dishonest and innumerate larger claim. Accusing others of your own personality defects.

[Mother's Lament]

The national crisis is 15,000 illegals shoved into a city of only 60,000.

And is the strongman the one that has the FBI illegally spy on his opponents campaign, quietly withdraws Secret Service protection from his opponent so he ends up shot, has the DOJ invent novel charges to tie his opponent up in court, or the other guy?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

15,000 illegals

they are not illegal immigrants. Why are you conflating legal and illegal immigration?

[Mother's Lament]

Because they are illegals. Why are YOU lying about their status?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

the Haitian refugees in Springfield are in the country legally.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/haitian-immigrants-in-springfield-legally-under-temporary-protected-status-heres-how-that-works/UUG36RNJAVHBJCTMGCVL6FP25Q/

Why are you conflating legal and illegal immigration again?

[ducksalad]

the strongman the one that has the FBI illegally spy on his opponents campaign, quietly withdraws Secret Service protection from his opponent so he ends up shot, has the DOJ invent novel charges to tie his opponent up in court, or the other guy

Your core cognitive problem is this false binary. They’re both doing the strongman thing. Now, only one of them openly swaggers about how strong he is and how much he admires other strongmen. The other just quietly had his subordinates do the job, and now the subordinates completely run the show while he vegetates.

Anyway, your man Trump is the one who decided to make it about the eaten cats instead of the 15,000 immigrants in a town of 60,000. Maybe if he’d focused on that he’d be getting ridiculed less today. Well, OK, we’d still ridicule him but it would have been something less effective.

He just looks like complete idiot on this cat thing, and his defenders here are only a little better. At least y’all have enough self-awareness to try to deflect to geese or ducks or pretending the 15,000 immigrants weren’t let in under existing laws, which means they’re not illegal. But Trump himself? No, he’s the Cat Man, he’s doubled down, he owns it, cat, cat, CAT, cat, cat.

[sarcasmic]

Your core cognitive problem is this false binary.

Did you say something bad about Trump? That's praise for Democrats!

Did you criticize Republicans? That's praise for Democrats!

Did you criticize both sides? That's praise for Democrats!

Did you criticize Democrats without praising Trump or Republicans? That's praise for Democrats!

Did you promote the Libertarian candidate? He's a fag so that's praise for Democrats!

Basically anything other than attacks on Democrats paired with excessive praise for Trump and Republicans equals praise for Democrats.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Got enough straw there, Sarckles?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The Trump shills will NEVER admit that the story of Haitians eating pets is false, because that would mean implicitly admitting that Trump told a big huge lie last night. So they will ALWAYS misdirect and deflect and say “well AKSHUALLY the REAL issue is all of those people who were suddenly brought in…”

There are several overlapping issues at play here:
1. Should refugees be granted asylum at all in this country?
2. If so, what is the fairest way to try to resettle these refugees?
3. How can the residents of a town try to integrate refugees into a town?
4. What kind of support should the refugees get, and who pays for it?

But no no no, instead of talking about any of these substantive issues, the right-wing morons around here bring up the most inflammatory and false one – OMG THEY’RE EATING PETS – and use THAT to try to discredit and smear the entire refugee community.

It’s just one more part of the same playbook that they use on all of the culture war issues:

“Look, there are some books in school libraries that we don’t like, for lots of different reasons. But instead of trying to make the case for each book, we will take the most inflammatory example of KIDS GIVING BLOWJOBS and use that one to smear ALL of the books that we don’t like, even ones that have zero sexual content whatsoever.”

“Look, there are some topics taught in the school curriculum regarding race that we don’t like. But instead of trying to make the case on each element of the curriculum, we will take the most inflammatory example and call it CRITICAL RACE THEORY and use that to discredit ALL of it, even the parts of the curriculum that have nothing to do with genuine critical race theory.”

It is dishonest and wrong every time that they do it. They are fundamentally incapable of arguing these issues rationally and in good faith. They always take the most inflammatory extreme example, go on an emotional binger with OMG IT'S AWFUL and use that to try to sweep the whole issue away.

[Jefferson Paul]

Your lack of self-reflection is bordering on the absurd now.

They always take the most inflammatory extreme example, go on an emotional binger with

You shat up the comments a month or two ago posting one story after another about individual "hate crimes" against LGBT. You were choosing the worst examples you could find in an attempt to make it look as bad as possible, something you constantly criticize others for doing with examples of illegals committing crimes in this country. In an amusing self-own, though, many of the examples you gave turned out to have the attacker be an immigrant or LGBT.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I just hope the non-citizens in Springfield, OH don't eat the whole gander of geese (or citizens cats), lol.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

EVEN IF everything you say about me is absolutely true:
When are you going to criticize Jesse’s team for doing the same thing?

If I am no better than Jesse's team on this score, why are you only giving me the 3rd degree over it?

[Jefferson Paul]

I'm just using your own damn standard and applying it to you. Jesse et al. aren't the ones claiming that if you highlight stories about illegal immigrants committing crimes it means every illegal immigrant is going to rape your grandmother--you are.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

The hilarious part was those stories were primarily related to illegal immigrants.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Didn't answer the question. When are you going to call out Jesse's team for their bad behavior?

if you highlight stories about illegal immigrants committing crimes it means every illegal immigrant is going to rape your grandmother–you are.

No, that is NOT what I am claiming. I am claiming that when Jesse et al. post story after story about immigrants behaving badly, he is doing so as a deliberate strategy to create an *impression* that all immigrants act that way. Not that they actually ARE all violent criminals.

Jesse and his troupe of mean girls come here day after day after day and spew bile and bullshit about immigrants and you say nothing. I post a bunch of articles about LGBTQ individuals being treated poorly, as examples of the type of world that Jesse would like to see, and you give me the third degree over it. You are just a concern troll on the matter. Fuck off.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jefferson Paul, when you lift one tiny finger in opposition to the mountains of crap that Jesse and his team shovel onto these forums on a daily basis, then I will believe your 'concern' is sincere.

[Mother's Lament]

“Didn’t answer the question.”

He did answer the question. Why are you lying that he didn’t?

"Crap that Jesse and his team shovel onto these forums on a daily basis"

"Crap" that is backed by links, videos and citations while your claims that they are lies are backed by nothing. There's a good reason why everyone here calls you shill and Lying Jeffy.

[sarcasmic]

When are you going to call out Jesse’s team for their bad behavior?

Never. He's too much of a coward to risk being in their crosshairs.

[Jefferson Paul]

Never. He’s too much of a coward to risk being in their crosshairs.

Fuck off, sarc. I avoid commenting at you because it's pointless. You're broken, and almost everyone who has read the comments can see it.

I actually have a job that requires my time, so I usually don't have time to respond to every fucking comment. Some days I don't even get to read the articles, much less comment.

Don't you always say sarcastically to Jesse et al. that not condemning something means one must support it? Now you're calling me a coward for not calling out Jesse? Do you follow this simple logic and see how much of a hypocrite you're being, or will you engage in name-calling or fallacies to avoid it?

While I disagree with Jesse sometimes (I'm an atheist, don't like how Israel is conducting the war in Gaza, want all drugs legalized, think most cops are bastards, just to name a few issues), I tend to agree with his reasoning quite a bit more than I do with you and your team. And it is a team. You constantly come by to defend YOUR TEAM (Bushpig2, chemjeff, etc.), while decrying team politics.

You, more than anyone, do the things you claim to oppose: identity and team politics, personal attacks, lies, logical fallacies, playing the victim, etc.

Work on yourself before you try to attack me.

[sarcasmic]

You constantly come by to defend YOUR TEAM (Bushpig2, chemjeff, etc.), while decrying team politics.

That’s cool. You’ve redefined team in the context of politics from supporting and defending a candidate, politician or party, to agreeing with people who do not support any particular candidate, politician or party. Pretty nifty.

Unless you're a binary-thinker like Jesse who equates not supporting his team with support for TEAM EVIL.

But you'll never call him out on that. Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of all his bullshit.

[Jefferson Paul]

"If you don't condemn something, you support it."

[chemjeff radical individualist]

While I disagree with Jesse sometimes (I’m an atheist, don’t like how Israel is conducting the war in Gaza, want all drugs legalized, think most cops are bastards, just to name a few issues)

When have you ever publicly disagreed with him or his team on these issues? Let alone, called him out for his lies and mendacity and his distortions of truth?

Frankly I think sarcasmic is right here. You don't want to publicly disagree with him because you're afraid he will call you names and then his whole tribe of mean girls will gang up on you and call you a Nazi pedophile or something. You don't want them harassing and stalking you in the comments all the time.

You attack me because I'm viewed as the easy "soft target". That's why. You're a coward.

You constantly come by to defend YOUR TEAM (Bushpig2, chemjeff, etc.)

LOL do you even read the comments? What you described almost never happens. What actually happens, is that Jesse or his pals say something outrageous and false, and then a bunch of us criticize him for it - we are not defending each other, we are criticizing Jesse and his pals. It's Jesse's mean girl squad which constantly rush to each other's defense, not sarc rushing to my defense or me rushing to SPB's defense. ML is the worst of them all. He is very much a tribalist who rushes to the defense of his tribe. You are literally projecting their team's behavior onto me.

This is all just one giant exercise in concern trolling. Jesse is by far the worst example of dishonest narrative-pushing behavior in these comments, by a huge margin. When you lift even the teensiest of fingers against his crap then maybe I will give a shit about what you think. Until that time, suck a bag of dicks and fuck off.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You, more than anyone, do the things you claim to oppose: identity and team politics, personal attacks, lies, logical fallacies, playing the victim, etc.

Oh and one more thing. While I don't claim to be a saint, many of the complaints about me are based on superficial comparisons only for the purpose of trying to manufacture hypocrisy where it doesn't really exist. For example, "playing the victim". Is it not well understood that there is a strong sentiment on Team Red which views them as basically the victims of modernity, and specifically victims of all the evil progressives which want to hold them down? E.g., the bullshit "war on Christmas" and all that. Yes I criticize them for always playing the victim card when it is not merited to do so.

And then here, on the Reason comment forums, you have despicable people like Jesse, ML, RMac, etc., who really do say vile and ugly things about me, insinuate that I'm guilty of some of the worst crimes imaginable. So they do attack me viciously and unfairly, and yes I am a victim of their disgusting slander about me.

But, here comes Jefferson Paul, holier than thou, who thinks that I criticize Republicans for playing the victim card when they aren't really a victim, that I have no right to complain about me being a victim *even when I really am a victim!* That is a bullshit standard, you know it, that is only offered in bad faith because you are just looking for some cheap way to call me a hypocrite.

According to Jefferson Paul, I suppose, anyone who complains about anyone else "playing the victim card" is not allowed to go to the police if they are the victim of a crime, because otherwise "they'd be a hypocrite". Idiot.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

personal attacks

You're damn right I use personal attacks, against people who use personal attacks against me, and against people who are completely dishonorable in their argumentation. That now includes you.

But I don't use personal attacks *as a way to advance an argument*. That is the difference. Jesse and his team does. He repeatedly uses name calling and slander and other personal attacks as a SUBSTITUTE for arguing against the substance of the matter.

[Jefferson Paul]

You’re damn right I use personal attacks, against people who use personal attacks against me, and against people who are completely dishonorable in their argumentation. That now includes you.

Where is Sarc to sarcastically say, "it's okay if they did it first"?

My attack of your flawed reasoning and hypocrisy is "completely dishonorable" because I didn't do a Boaf Sides and attack Jesse? Wow. That's sad. You're also smuggling in the assumption that you are correct in your reasoning at least as much as the others, like Jesse, so I should be attacking him equally. From my perspective, you're not. You're often wrong, so I challenge your reasoning since I see it as incorrect. Do you make sure you attack Sarc as much as you do Jesse? No? Is it because you agree with Sarc and his reasoning more than Jesse? Probably. It would be fallacious for me to delegitimize your criticism of Jesse just because you didn't also call out Sarc. I already listed issues I disagree with Jesse over: abortion, police, Israel, full drug legalization, atheism, etc. He's free to challenge me on any of them.

You play the victim all the time. You're doing it now by claiming I'm attacking you because you're seen as "the soft, easy target" and not because I find your reasoning to be poor and hypocritical.

And by the way, I don't care if you attack me personally with cheap insults (since you've said I'm "completely dishonorable" and that opens the door for you to attack me personally). I'm still not going to resort to that level, a level you think is fine if the other guy did it first. I'm still going to focus on YOUR ARGUMENT and its flaws, which is what I've done. Frankly, that's all I need to do, as you've made some outrageous statements and claims over the years.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

My attack of your flawed reasoning and hypocrisy is “completely dishonorable”

You are concern trolling. You are doing the equivalent of castigating me for going 10 mph over the speed limit, while completely ignoring the Jesses who are zooming along at 100+ mph over the speed limit. It is dishonest and dishonorable.

You said I deliberately picked examples of LGBTQ people being horribly victimized. Yes I did. I did it to make a point of the type of world that Jesse wants to live in, where violence against LGBTQ people is normalized and accepted. I *didn't* do it to try to make a point about the attackers or the victims themselves.

And you criticize me for doing this, because I castigate Jesse for the same thing. Actually, Jesse is not doing the same thing, he deliberately picks examples of immigrants behaving badly because he wants to push a narrative that they are ALL violent thugs.

So you criticize me for allegedly not completely living up to the standards that I set for myself, while completely ignoring the guy who has no standards and shovels mountainfuls of bullshit into the forum every single day. That is why your criticism is bad faith crap.

Once you start holding Jesse and his team to ANY standard of reputable behavior whatsoever, then we can talk about how unsaintly I am. I am 1,000,000 times better than Jesse and his crew around here when it comes to personal integrity. I don't stalk people in the forum and harass them. I don't bring up people's personal life details and try to use them as a weapon against them. I am not continually accusing them of horrible crimes like pedophilia. I don't call them Nazis. Jesse and his team do this DAILY, over and over.

Jesse is a bottom-feeding asshole and you are spending all your time criticizing me because I haven't reached saintly status yet. Well fuck that. Your 'concern' is bad faith.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You’re also smuggling in the assumption that you are correct in your reasoning at least as much as the others

No I'm not. Nothing in this discussion is about the reasoning of any particular argument on some government policy. It is about personal integrity and the standards you hold people to. You try to hold me to a lofty standard while you hold Jesse to no standard whatsoever. This isn't about who has the better argument about some policy. This is about YOUR complete hypocrisy in your concern trolling.

Do you make sure you attack Sarc as much as you do Jesse? No? Is it because you agree with Sarc and his reasoning more than Jesse?

If sarc started BEHAVING like Jesse then I would call him out for his shitty behavior too. You on the other hand would apparently stand idly by and say nothing but then criticize the guy who didn't use proper punctuation or something.

[Jefferson Paul]

Fight your own battles with Jesse and stop trying to bring me into it, as it's pathetic. That's what all of this boils down to: I'm mostly attacking your reasoning and holding you to the standard you cry about all the time. You see Jesse as some monster, so you're angry that I don't attack him for it. (I don't find either of you to be "monsters," although, to me, you've posted some horrific takes on things--the worst I've seen on this site except for Misek.) I don't like the stupid name-calling that is rampant on this site, yes, by both you and others like Jesse, but that's not what started this back-and-forth. I applied your reasoning and standards to you, and you immediately started asking why I'm not getting on Jesse's case for other things.

Have I made personal insults against you? Have I called you fat, a pedophile, or a Nazi? I've only ever referred to you as chemjeff. Not "creamjeff" or some other jejune play on your name. So stop it already.

I'm pretty much done with this conversation. I'm finally leaving work. If you do have something else to say, I'll check back in tomorrow, but I don't think either of us is changing the mind of the other.

[Zeb]

Asylum simply because life sucks in the home country is not practical or sustainable. There are probably hundreds of millions of people in situations like that. Outside of very particular situations where the US had something to do with the bad situation I don't think there is any moral obligation to give people asulum.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Maybe we could have this discussion, if there wasn't so much screaming and yelling about OMG THEY'RE EATING FLUFFY

[chemjeff radical individualist]

But more seriously, I think on the topic specifically of the Haitians, one big reason Haiti is a fucked up country is that they have been continually meddled with for centuries, first the French and then later the Americans.

I think asylum is what generous and magnanimous people do, and I would like to think that Americans broadly are that way.

[DesigNate]

Generous and magnanimous individuals, maybe, though I foresee the wholesale importation of an underclass of people (asylum seekers who supposedly aren’t allowed to get gainful employment legally, correct me if I’m wrong on that) leading to some pretty bad abuses by the individuals doing the importing.

It’s hardly generous or magnanimous to do that and force others to pay for it.

(It also ignores the fact that asylum isn’t for shitty economic conditions.)

[Zeb]

So do we just invite all of Haiti to come live in the US? The asylum system is just not made for mass migrations. And I think it is completely reasonable to not like it when the government crams tens of thousands of people into a small city. I'm all for more organic immigration where people come to work and be self-sufficient and make a good life. But mass relocations like this aren't that.
I think asylum is what generous and magnanimous people do, and I would like to think that Americans broadly are that way.
As individuals, sure. Governments can't be magnanimous or generous. All they have is force. If individual people want to sponsor and take responsibility for asylum seekers, great.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I think asylum is what generous and magnanimous people do, and I would like to think that Americans broadly are that way.

No, that's pathological altruism. Sorry, but it's not our duty to take in the entire population of the third world, your dumb appeal to emotion aside.

[LIBtranslator]

The Uranium Savages wrote a song about Idi Amin. One verse goes "In my block people feelin' so low, since he ate my dog and shot the man next door." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV_kg2sh-UI

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Even when told it isnt only about pets, but that is what is used to dismiss all the citizens speaking at the town hall about the problems, you can’t help but pretend it is only about the pet thing. Lol.

And then you transition to okay it may be happening but so what? It is illegal to hunt birds in parks dumbass. The crime they commit is illegal. The vandalism and destruction is illegal.

This is all a cost you refuse to admit to in your open borders ignorance. It is amazing. You don’t care for the truth. Always it isn’t happening to straight to it is a good thing.

What a fucking joke lol.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Literally no one is dismissing all the citizen complaints. That is yet another one of your strawmen.

We are specifically dismissing the BULLSHIT story about Haitian immigrants EATING PETS. It is bullshit and wrong. Can you say it with me?

Saying the story about pets is wrong is not the same as dismissing all of their complaints.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

But your side is using the pet story to do exactly that. The same thing's happening with the Venezuelan gangs in Aurora.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

The selectively nuanced defeatist strikes again! Haha.

[sarcasmic]

It’s the same tactic used by the leftists he hates when it come to something like a school shooting. They keep it in the news and harp on about it for months until the next one happens, then repeat. It gives the appearance of school shootings being a constant thing. They then use that as an excuse to go after our rights.
He and his ilk do the same thing with regards to immigration, with the ultimate goal being actual concentration camps. Not quarantines where people walk in sick and leave healthy, but camps to house politically disfavored subhumans until some final solution can be found.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Oh. That explains my use of statistics and full up costs. Totally makes sense.

Have you ever tried to make an intelligent argument that wasn't pure projection?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I mean the story is ducks, geese, and pets.

No, the story is PETS. That is what Trump brought up last night. It is dishonest of YOU to try to lump a more credible claim about illegal poaching of geese, with a far less credible claim of immigrants EATING PETS, in order to try to lend credibility to them both.

[Mother's Lament]

Here come KKKemjeff to lawyer over the dictionary so he can pretend that the story is a lie because stray cats and park ducks don’t count as “pets”, and that the story was actually solely about people eating “pets” and totally not about people eating stray cats and park ducks.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Park ducks are not pets. No.

Illegal poaching is not the same as stealing household domesticated animals and eating them.

But what is the point of arguing with you. You are a self-admitted Trump shill who lacks the intellectual integrity to ever argue any issue in good faith if it might possibly make Dear Orange Leader look bad.

[MT-Man]

Sorry dude - you are trying to obfuscate from the point, norms of society are disregarded is the point. The word use misdirection like the bleach stuff does get tiring.

[Mother's Lament]

Of course he is. He’s paid to obfuscate and redirect here.

Obviously not enough if he's going to try and make it all about the word "pet" instead of the actual accusation, though. That's not really high tier shilling. Kinda farm league stuff. That's why he's stuck at Reason and not the NYT.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Same thing DemSalad is doing so they can ignore all of the other citizen complaints about the immigrants. Find one part of the story to ignore the costs, issues, violations of the NAP. Consistent behavior for open border liberals pretending to be libertarian.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

People who value truth over narrative, object to lies.
People who value narrative over truth, tolerate the lies in order to advance the narrative.

[sarcasmic]

Tolerate? Dude, these guys celebrate lies. They only way they get ahead is by telling lies about the people who value the truth. That way they discredit the truth by discrediting people who promote it. It's pretty disgusting.

[Mother's Lament]

Literally what you are doing right now, clowntits. Self-awareness is really not your superpower huh?

True or false, Sarckle: Haitian Migrants in an Ohio city are eating the stray cats and ducks and geese at the park.

[sarcasmic]

Oh, nifty. You've moved the goalposts from pets to strays. Where do they go next?

[DesigNate]

the goal posts were never at just pets….

[Mother's Lament]

People who look Haitian have been killing stray cats but because nobody asked for their ID to prove it, the story is a lie.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

This is how CATO proved illegals didn't commit crimes in Texas since they don't determine citizenship at the time of the arrest. Post booking data where identity was determined was much different.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"People who look Haitian"

Because everyone knows, Springfield was lily-white before all of those immigrants came there, so if any dark-skinned person did anything wrong, that person must have been one of those damned illegals. Right? And that's not racist or bigoted at all.

[Mother's Lament]

If you say you can't tell an African American from a Haitian by sight, you're lying.

And even if they did look the same, have African Americans suddenly started eating stray cats and ducks, Lying Jeffy?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Lol. Look at Jeff take the bait. Too easy.

[Quicktown Brix]

I’ve been trying to find credible evidence that any migrant has been killing pets or wildlife.

So far I have found:

Jesse’s phone call above. A guy saying he saw 4 Haitians carrying 4 geese. We have no context of how he knows they were Haitians, how sure he was about the geese or any confirmation this was not a mistake or a hoax.

A woman named Allexis Telia Ferrell who killed a cat in Canton (insert Chinese food joke here) Ohio by stomping its head and eating it in front of neighbors and was arrested. Some claims that she is a US citizen, but nothing reliable. Whatever she is nationality-wise seems irrelevant, there are mental issues there.

Do you have any reliable sources for people eating dogs, cats, ducks, geese or sea lions?

Edit: or just killing without eating.

[sarcasmic]

The fact that you can’t find any evidence is proof that the media is covering up the fact that illegals are killing and eating housepets.

No proof is proof of a coverup. Duh.

Only leftists wait for evidence to believe something.

[Quicktown Brix]

Yes, well, that may be the argument from some, but I hope someone will offer some more evidence that convinced them about this story.

The thing is, these conspiracy theory sounding things that trip my bullshit detector turn out to be correct sometimes, but that is no reason to go hook line and sinker every time. This one seems over the top.

[sarcasmic]

Funny thing about conspiracy theories is that nobody remembers the ones that were wrong. So to true believers they’re all accurate.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You call everything negative to the state a conspiracy theory.

[Mother's Lament]

A "conspiracy theory" is something that Sarckles knows to be true but reflects poorly on the Democratic Party.

[Jefferson Paul]

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I don't think the few citizen reports about Haitians kidnapping pets to eat them is true. (But at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out it is true. I just don't accept it until there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate that it's true.)

Trump screwed up by brining this specific thing up, instead of just hammering home how the Biden/Harris administration is flying all of these migrants in and settling them in small towns without the consent of the town's citizens.

This was a bad debate for Trump-period. Yes, he was having to debate the moderators in addition to Kamala, but he did poorly on his own as well.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

He just listed evidence in the post you responded to retard.

Ironically more evidence than most of the Lawfare you support like the Carrol suit lol.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Part of this has got to be the "Dan Rather" strategy at work here. Recall that Dan Rather fell for a hoax about George W. Bush going AWOL from the Texas National Guard, and even after it was revealed to be a hoax, he still defended it because he said it was "fake but accurate". Meaning that it doesn't matter if the actual AWOL story was fake, what was important was to call attention to the broader story (which was something like W. evading active combat in Vietnam by manipulating his draft number into service in a cushy NG unit).

It has got to be the same thing here. "It doesn't matter if the eating pets story is false, it is 'fake but accurate' because it calls attention to the problems associated with immigration in Springfield".

[sarcasmic]

Exactly.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The ironic part is, it was the 2004 version of the "too-online Right" which revealed the hoax and took down Dan Rather. But it is now the 2024 version of the "too-online Right" which has EMBRACED the 'fake but accurate' tactic and uses it overwhelmingly to push their own narratives.

[sarcasmic]

Democrats did it first. That makes it ok.

[DesigNate]

Isn’t that just another way of saying you can’t hold Democrats to their own standards or use their tactics against them?

I don’t see the logic in hamstringing yourself in a political fight.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Kinda like the media trying to deny Biden's decline?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

The videos from the town hall meeting are also available.

And there is at least one photo available.

But again. This isn't the actual point. It is what dem media wants you to focus on instead of all the other issues and costs surrounding the large importation of illegal immigrants.

[Quicktown Brix]

And there is at least one photo available.

This one?

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2024/09/10/goose-photo-columbus-springfield-ohio-haitian-immigrant/75159844007/

I feel like this is the kind of thing I’d get caught doing, being a country hick moved urban.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The most chilling part of all of this is, there is someone - probably multiple someones - who deliberately copied that photo, KNOWING it had nothing to do with Haitian immigrants in Springfield, and deliberately presented it as if it were 'proof' that the migrants are going wild and eating geese on the streets. They did it to deliberately manipulate and inflame popular opinion. And even when the evidence is revealed to the Jesses out there that the pictures mean something different, they direct their anger against the people revealing the truth to them, and NOT at the people who deliberately lied to them about the pictures in the first place.

[sarcasmic]

Shooting the messenger is a longstanding tradition.

[LIBtranslator]

There is. Evidence thrown down or planted by entrenched Kleptocracy Republican looters is "good" by definition.

[shadydave]

How many times have we gone through this cycle with the media? Claiming something is a silly right wing conspiracy theory and eventually it's shown to be true.

In any event, if a Columbus suburb has absorbed 20,000 Haitian immigrants in a short period of time, that is insane. There's nothing natural about that sort of migration pattern, that was an intentional decision by somebody.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Democrats cried when 20 were sent to MV. Yet Joe has been doing this to small towns as policy. Seems to be intentional regional takeover by migrants to garner more power like with Somalians in Minneapolis.

[R Mac]

No no, it’s just freedom of movement! Those Haitians all swam from Haiti to central Ohio on their own.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Up the Mississipi down the Ohio river.

[mad.casual]

A few things really showed the ABC bias last night, but we knew that going in as the head of ABC News is a close friend of Kamala.
...
But the main take away was the utter open bias of the corporate media.

My favorite part was the live stream of the debate on Disney+. No better way to demonstrate the abject to-the-soul level of corruption of American culture of the DNC-captured media.

They will sacrifice the hopes and dreams that your grandparents built for their grandchildren if they think it might afford their candidate a chance to look better.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Another great example. Last night Kamala said she never wanted to take away people guns, she was a gun owner. No push back at all. Yet a clip from her telling Muir just that from just a few years ago.

https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1833717828890845374

[ducksalad]

Summary:

Ultra-tough guy Trump, who will end the Ukraine war in one day simply by threatening to get angry, was flummoxed and humiliated by two meanie pro-Harris reporters.

I guess we’ll be fine as long as the Iranians, Chinese, Russians, and Houthis don’t send in their crack teams of meanie reporters.

[Commenter_XY]

The Houthis already defeated the USN; the Suez Canal is basically shut down.

[ducksalad]

Thankfully the Houthis just used crudely made Iranian missiles and drones. Imagine if they’d deployed a pair of well-dressed ABC reporters trained in bias techniques that violate all the rules of warfare.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Sad your team, with the world's largest military, can't stop crudely made Iranian missiles and drones from shutting down one of the world's busiest shipping lanes. FOUR MOAR YEARS!!!

[ducksalad]

Chase Oliver and the libertarian wing of the Libertarian Party don't have the world's largest military. They don't have any military.

However, if "my team" did control the military, they wouldn't be perpetually taking sides in Mideast conflicts. Without US support, it is likely the Saudis would not have involved themselves in Yemen in the first place. At a minimum they would have used somebody else's weapons to do so.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I'm shocked the Democrat you are wants to continue a war instead of ending it.

Apparently wanting to end wars instead of funneling money to corrupt nations is bad. Did you get a hard on when Kamala said Russia was going to invade Poland next like the good little war hawk you are?

[ducksalad]

If you read the rest of this thread, you’d see that I already stated clearly that Trump has the better Ukraine policy:

Trump had the better points on Ukraine: it’s mainly the European’s problem so they should be the ones mainly paying for it; there are practical limits to what you can do to a nuclear-armed power; and at times it has been the Biden administration urging the Ukrainians not to settle.

But as expected he botched it by making it about himself and how he’ll solve all through the immensity of his own greatness.

One day it seems like you’ve actually got a reading comprehension issue, another day it seems like plain old gaslighting. I guess you'd find the second less insulting, so in charity I’ll go with the gaslighting.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yet you still criticized him for it because you’re a sad little man lol.

An emotive little man.

What is Chase's plan for getting out of Ukraine since you seem to be saying Trump has no plan. I'll wait.

[sarcasmic]

Nice blouse. The way you talk I'd have thought you would be taller.

[ducksalad]

His quote: "End aid being directed to nation-states currently at war. This includes Israel and Ukraine."

Of course, he can't do that without Congress, and neither could Trump. So I'll be voting LP for senate as well. The Republicans kicked our house candidate off the ballot by requiring a large cash fee, supposedly to offset the cost of a primary, even though there was no primary.

By comparison, Trump simply repeats that he's the greatest leader ever and they'll stop fighting out of respect for him. What utter bullshit.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

By the way, get why you, sarc, and Jeff love Chase. He was a Democrat 4 years ago just like you guys. Pretends to be libertarian just like you guys. Has no depth of libertarian theory just like you guys.

He is your perfect sheep in wool clothing.

[sarcasmic]

We get it. Chase is a fag, and all fags are Democrats.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

Trying to put words in someone else’s mouth again, Sarc? Don’t you think you’ve built enough straw men today?

[ducksalad]

First, you don't know shit about libertarian theory; second, most of us moved past arguments from authority a long time ago. If someone like Rand or Rothbard is wrong, they're wrong. I don't have to parrot their ideas. And AFAICT your talking points come mostly from an anti-immigrant propaganda organization, CIS, that has nothing to do with "libertarian theory" at all.

But I did forget to thank you for one big laugh you gave me a couple weeks back. When you compared yourself to Howard Roark. You do realize he's a fictional character? Not even really a character, more of talking symbol. Rand's obsession with strong men is the weakest part of her work. But leaving all that aside, can anyone imagine Howard Roark spending his time chasing down (wrongly) suspected former Democrats on the Internet?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Lol. I have more libertarian books within eye sight as I write this than you’ve ever read.

We’ve been through this. Last time I listed a dozen books while you did none. Lol.

The only time you even mention a libertarian by name is when you're dismissing them. The likes of rothbard, mises, hoppe, etc. You know as much as sarc which is basically nothing. Probably read a few Bastiat quotes like him, but never an actual essay.

You're child. Lol.

[ducksalad]

Me: you don’t know shit about libertarian theory
Your response: I have more libertarian books within eye sight as I write this than you’ve ever read....rothbard, mises, hoppe, etc.

1. Name dropping is cheapest and lowest form of the argument by authority fallacy.

2. Owning a book and understanding it are two very different things.

3. You have trouble comprehending Reason articles, and get confused by things like the author first raising a point on one side in order to refute it later. “To be sure” completely throws you off your game. Until you get past that there’s no point in you reading serious non-fiction written at the college level.

[Rick James]

Ryan Saavedra
@RealSaavedra
Went through the debate transcript and counted:

Trump was fact-checked 4 times
Harris was fact-checked 0 times

Muir/Davis pressed Trump 6 times for follow-ups
Muir/Davis pressed Harris 0 times for follow-ups

Trump made ≈14 false statements
Harris made ≈16 false statements

That's what I was wondering. I didn't watch the debate because I don't watch debates, but I'm guessing Reason and the Media will be full of lawyerly definitions of 'skyrocketing' and 3 year moving averages of GDP growth over inflation etc.

So I guess the question is, how were those 14 "false statements" in comparison to the 16 "false statements"? Did Trump say, "The earth is flat" vs Kamala saying "Sharpest Joe Biden ever" or was the impact of the 14 relatively on par with the 16?

[mad.casual]

So I guess the question is, how were those 14 “false statements” in comparison to the 16 “false statements”? Did Trump say, “The earth is flat” vs Kamala saying “Sharpest Joe Biden ever” or was the impact of the 14 relatively on par with the 16?

You're also assuming Trump false = Kamala false and giving a lot of credit to the 'fact-checking' as truth or anti-disinformation or truthiness or lived experience as well.

I don't watch the debates either. The only thing I saw was Kamala talking about a pregnant woman bleeding out in the parking lot of a hospital because she couldn't get an abortion.

Now, of course, there was no woman bleeding out in a parking lot and hospitals are required to save her whether they offer abortion or not. The hypothetical isn't even honestly plausible, let alone plausible as some sort of policy correction. Along the lines of what you're suggesting, I have no idea whether that counts one big falsehood or a series of serious falsehoods necessitating a vote for Harris as POTUS to prevent pregnant women from bleeding out in hospital parking lots.

[Rick James]

I don’t watch the debates either. The only thing I saw was Kamala talking about a pregnant woman bleeding out in the parking lot of a hospital because she couldn’t get an abortion.

*spits drink all over monitor*

Was that part of the 16?

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You missed her proving she had values because her high school friend was raped.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

When the moderator lied about the late term abortions I left the room because it was obvious where it was going. But from what I saw Trump was taking the bait and missing easy opportunities anyway.

[Medulla Oblongata]

And one of those states is Tim Walz's home state, and due to a bill he helped pass and sign. Above and beyond that, he removed the requirements to report instances--I guess if there's no reports of born-alive infants after botched abortions, then they didn't happen...like election fraud.

[HorseConch]

Kamala sure thought she was Winston Churchill while giving herself a verbal tugjob over her brilliant trip to Ukraine 3 days before the invasion.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Conservatives and Trump supporters mostly stuck to attacking the debate moderators for their alleged pro-Harris bias

Britches is displaying a sarcasmic level understanding of the meaning of alleged.

[mad.casual]

Because only Conservatives and Trump supporters would laugh out loud at the accidentally funny assertion that major media outlets aren't in the bag for anybody with a D after their name that can fill a suit.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Likewise, only people with "TDS" would say Trump is a bad candidate who's been a gift to Democrats in 2018, 2020, 2022, and now 2024.

Election Betting Odds has Harris' chances of winning up almost 5 percentage points since yesterday. Must be some severe "TDS" over there.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

What’s been the variability on those sites Sandra? Weird taking a small impulse change as gospel to try to get a dig in.

This is the shit shrike does to prove the greatest economy ever.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Harris is obviously a below-replacement-level Democrat. That's why her 2020 campaign went nowhere. And why Biden tried to run again. And why many progressives insisted Biden stay in the race even after revealing the extent of his brain damage.

Trump did so poorly in a debate against a subpar Democrat that betting sites downgraded his chances of winning *in real time.*

Consistent with my longtime assertion that Trump is, in fact, a bad candidate.

[Rick James]

Harris is obviously a below-replacement-level Democrat.

That's why we need a Great Replacement!

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Again your description of so poor is based on an agreement with the corporate media narrative. Many are saying it was essentially a wash. She didn’t help herself. Trump was Trump. No actual surprises.

Her team is even asking for a 2nd debate. If she won so handedly why would they?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Seriously? After last night, why wouldn't she want a chance to let her media support pets humiliate him again? The last four years have clearly shown that Democrats no longer need to do any heavy lifting of their own in elections, because the media will do it for them.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Her team is even asking for a 2nd debate. If she won so handedly why would they?

Her team is asking for a second debate for the same reason that you post here day after day - they never tire of trolling and baiting.

[Mother's Lament]

Fuck off, paid shill. You have the least right of anyone who posts here to say that.

[Medulla Oblongata]

OTOH, he did beat Clinton.

She lost 5 states that Obama carried twice, but did win the non-existent "popular vote".

If this were a football game, an analogous case might be: Clinton had 610 yards of total offense while Trump had 604 yards, but Clinton lost by 4 touchdowns after having 5 turnovers. She simply failed to do the things necessary to score.

The rookie Trump strategically and tactically outplayed the veteran--her, the master politician and "most qualified person to ever run for the office",?!

And he is perhaps the most vilified person (and not without cause) ever to run for the office and before the election Obama had campaigned more for Democrat Hillary Clinton than any modern sitting president had for his party’s nominee.

Clinton, veteran politician and "the most qualified person ever to run for the office" lost to a rookie disliked by his own party. And she outspent him 4:1 or so, and still lost.

It took four years of constant negative pressure from media and a pandemic and MASSIVE "fortification" to allow Biden to squeak out 75-80k vote victory.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""She simply failed to do the things necessary to score.""

Unlike her husband.

[mad.casual]

I'm seriously having trouble distinguishing between Sandra's argument and Matthew Yglesias' argument.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

TDS in both cases.

[mad.casual]

Election Betting Odds has Harris’ chances of winning up almost 5 percentage points since yesterday. Must be some severe “TDS” over there.

Are you quoting Election Betting Odds two months out from the election because you believe it to be a strong predictor of the outcome, because you think it doesn't or couldn't reflect a self-reinforcing media narrative, because you don't think people know about Election Betting Odds, or because you think more people need to hear the message about how much better Kamala did last night and what a terrible, horrible candidate you know Trump to be?

P.S. - Have I ever actually *said* you've had TDS? If it wasn't clear, my position has pretty consistently been that your behavior or messaging, at best, frequently falls into a reluctantly and strategically Reason-aligned vibe at very convenient times and does so in a manner exceptionally difficult to distinguish from, e.g., sarcasmic's "This article is critical of Democrats and therefore doesn't exist." schtick.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

If reason would stop criticizing Democrats, sarc wouldn't have to keep trying to distract from the criticism.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

I'm quoting the movement in EBO's numbers because they indicate the consensus is Trump did badly enough at the debate to lower his chances of winning.

In a debate against Kamala Harris, the unpopular VP whose handlers know she's not a great speaker.

[Commenter_XY]

Sandra, agree with the assessment; Pres Trump lost the debate and did lower his chances to win.

What would you be telling The Donald to do to recover?
What delivers a Trump victory in 7 weeks?

[mad.casual]

Jesus.

Commenter_XY 1 day ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Sandra…how does the election look to you today? who wins?

What do you think the debate will be like tonite?

Sandra (formerly OBL) 24 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
After Biden’s debate performance ultimately led to him quitting in shame, I don’t expect anything nearly as game-changing this time. (The media will probably declare Harris won the debate no matter what happens.)

I still think Harris is being underestimated by the analysts calling the election a tossup. Still expect her to retain all the states Biden won in 2020, or at worst let 1 or 2 smaller ones slip away which would still result in a narrow Democratic victory.

Commenter_XY 22 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Agree = (The media will probably declare Harris won the debate no matter what happens.)

I’ll check back in a few weeks. I appreciated the detailed explanation you gave while back (months back), which is why I periodically check in to see what you think.

So, after predicting up front that the media would call a Harris victory no matter what happens even if it meant being wrong, Sandra comes here and cites narrative-based indicators that Harris won like it's some profound revelation, ignoring the previously ignored "even if they're wrong", and Commenter_XY shows up in sycophant fashion to agree with the assessment already agreed to ahead of time and check back in 'in a few weeks' even though the indicator can/does shift overnight.

The two of you need to get a room so you can jill each other off to predictable media narratives of Kamala Harris' victories or find some Harvey Weinstein creep that you can both credibly accuse of sexual assault or something.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

If MSM analysts were near-unanimous that Harris won the debate BUT betting sites didn't budge, or moved in Trump's favor, that would be one thing.

That's not what happened though.

One more time: Harris is a terrible candidate too. She crashed and burned quickly in 2020, got the VP nod due to DEI, has been consistently unpopular as VP, and lied about Biden's brain damage. Or, worse, she's so clueless she didn't even know about Joe's dementia until the first debate made it undeniable.

She has a history of supporting unpopular far-left ideas like reparations for slavery. She's part of an Administration that oversaw the botched Afghanistan exit. American allies Ukraine and Israel are in worse shape since Biden / Harris took over. Biden's immigration record is so awful, Harris has to distance herself by insisting "Actually I wasn't the 'border czar.'" And voters don't like the Biden / Harris economy.

And despite all this great material to work with, Trump still couldn't beat her in a debate.

[ducksalad]

What would you be telling The Donald to do to recover?

Have a life-changing born-again moment in which he reflects on his own faults and failings and decides to do better; humbly seek guidance from his advisors and colleagues, some of whom aren't completely crazy; and ask for a second debate where he soberly makes the case for his own policies without exaggeration or bombast.

What delivers a Trump victory in 7 weeks?

What is really needed is a major Harris fuckup. Harris has almost no policy, what policies she had she is running away from, and what little policy remains is bad. Unfortunately, despite all that, the debate showed that she can be disciplined and stick to a message and a plan. She can also successfully simulate being a reasonably normal person. If she sticks to generalities and acting normal, Trump is in trouble.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Maybe someone on your side can take another shot at him. Wait. Media would ignore that too.

You're as broken as sarc lol.

[ducksalad]

Yes, the media's suppression of the assassination attempt. Not one single story on CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT. We only found about it through the heroic reporting of Breitbart, aided by brave foot soldiers like yourself who spread the word in the face of massive resistance. If I didn't come to this comment section, I would not have realized it had happened.

[sarcasmic]

He says that media doesn't cover stories he feels are important, then has links to all those stories.

I guess his sources don't count as media. FOX News certainly doesn't.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

How quickly did that story disappear dummy? Yet we had a direct question about J6 again just last night.

Are you and sarc seriously this much in denial?

I mean media initially reported it as loud noises, Trump fell down

What is wrong with you two.

[ducksalad]

Jesse, your pathetic attempt at a comparison wouldn’t be so idiotic if (a) the assassination attempt had been participated in by 10,000 or so Biden supporters, (b) hundreds of the assassins were still defending themselves in court and filing appeals, and (c) swarms of Biden supporters, including some Democratic politicians, were still defending the assassination.

If any of that was true, the assassination would still be in the headlines everyday, dummy.

In reality, unlike your stupid delusional fever dream, (a) a single assassin carried out the attempt, (b) he’s dead and therefore settled, and (c) no known Democratic politicians, or for that matter even dumbass Reason commenters, are defending or ever have defended the assassination.

Meanwhile (I'm walking you through this step by step) (a) 10,000 Trump supporters participated in J6, (b) thousands of them are still alive, kicking, and justifying what they did in terms that indicates they'd have no problem doing it again, (c) and you and lots of other Trump supporters keep turning up to defend what happened and keep it in the news.

Then you go and complain that it's in the news.

To summarize, dumbass, the assassination is over, the assassin is dead, and it's no longer news. Meanwhile, since you're still defending J6 after 3.5 years, and appear to be alive, it was quite reasonable for ABC to ask if y'all are planning to do it again.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Lol. You’re pathetic man. Look at you still defending a single day as if it was the greatest harm to the country.

Do you do this to justify locking up nearly 1k people who committed no violence or vandalism. Quite libertarian of you buddy.

So now the qualifications is 10k people. Okay. Let's talk about the BLM riots you've defended. 2B and 20+ deaths for a political movement. Weird. That didn't get brought up. Just the j6 thing.

How fucking ignorant do you have to be to not see the bias so obvious a blind man can see it? The problem is you see it, you just agree with to. Like a good little dem narrative pusher.

[ducksalad]

Donald Trump is the one who can’t stop talking about the 2020 election, specifically including his righteousness on January 6th. He talks about it over and over, every week if not every day. Then if anyone talks back, you wail that it’s old news and no one should talk about it. The word to describe this behavior is crybully.

You want people to forget it and move on? Start by forgetting and moving on yourself.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

What is really needed is a major Harris fuckup. Harris has almost no policy, what policies she had she is running away from, and what little policy remains is bad.

Hell, she isn’t even laying out her policies herself. Her staff is doing that, or is even taking ones proposed by Trump, like the no tax on tips proposal.

Like I mentioned above, the one thing she could really do at this point to fuck up is to keep avoiding the media. They may support her, but they still expect access and her current "likeability" is entirely manufactured by them. It's not organic.

With Biden, they overlooked a lot of that because he wasn’t all there anyway. Harris, on the other hand, has all of her faculties and there’s no excuse for her to ghost these people, especially if Trump and Vance keep scheduling interviews and showing that they actually give a shit about talking to them. At heart, these people are extremely insecure and mainly want to know that they’re valued. Vance in particular ought to be hammering on that every time he sits down with them.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

If I'm Trump's campaign managers, I'd be setting aside 3-4 half-hour time slots, every single day for the media people assigned to him to sign up for interview him or Vance. "We have these times available for you to sit down with Trump or Vance tomorrow, first come, first served." Getting face time with these guys is always a pain in the ass because they're so busy with everything. Get the media to jockey over these slots, then during the interview, thank them for taking the time to sit down and tell them how great it is to be able to talk with them. Meanwhile, their counterparts are practically begging for anything more than a drive-by from Harris or Walz.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Trump is such a fundamentally defective candidate that it's difficult to imagine him course-correcting. His best hope is to get another lucky break.

Maybe if voter perception of the Biden / Harris economy gets even worse over the next few weeks? Or someone unearths video of Harris burning American flags in college? That might diminish her momentum.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

And yet he just pulled way ahead in Nate Silvers model the last few weeks. Despite being in front of people almost daily. But betting markets are all that matters now I guess. Despite her being up near 60 prior to the convention and down as low as 20 before the coup.

Betting markets even had a tick not seen in polling for the convention. Almost like they have wide variance on recency. Huh....

[Commenter_XY]

An October surprise will be needed.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Betting markets aren't a consensus metric. They are also highly variable to responses to story of the day. Kamala has been much higher and much lower in betting markets. Using a single day change as proof is again very shrike like.

[Mickey Rat]

The fact that they apparently did not "fact check" anything Harris claimed at all Isa big indicator of bias, as the idea Harris did not tell any whoppers is absurd on its face.

[Ska]

Looks like Liz Wolfe must have lost the drinking game, which is its own brand of win.

[Anomalous]

The hangover probably doesn't feel like a win. I don't know because I don't get hangovers.

[R Mac]

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

— Sinatra

[Bill Godshall]

If Harris actually desires another debate, Trump should insist the same rule Harris did at last night's extremely partisan 3 on 1 WWE tag team fiasco (where two Trump hating Harris campaigners deceitfully posed as debate moderators, asking Harris lots of softball questions that contained accolades for her and/or denouncements of Trump (with no fact checking of her thousands of lies), while asking Trump about past controversies that were lies the Democrats (and their left wing media propagandists) have deceitfully repeated for many years.

Trump should simply agree to another debate with the same debate platform that Harris insisted upon for last night, with Newsmax hosting and Greg Kelly and Greta Van Susteren moderating, or with Fox News hosting and Dana Perino and Charlie Hurt moderating.

Unlike Trump, it is doubtful that Harris could make it through 3 on 1 tag team match.

[Kungpowderfinger]

it is doubtful that Harris could make it through 3 on 1 tag team match

Somewhere Willie Brown is having a laugh

[Dillinger]

>>it is doubtful that Harris could make it through 3 on 1 tag team match

you know Willie has that video somewhere.

[Mother's Lament]

Love Yggles zoom in on the graph to make a drop from 51 to 49 in the betting pool look like he went from 90 to zero.

[Ajsloss]

Cheapfake

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yeah. I laughed at that too. Typical.

[sarcasmic]

The takeaways for libertarians and fellow-traveling liberty-likers were few indeed. No one on stage was particularly interested in putting themselves forward as the candidate for limited government voters.

So totally leftist.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yes. Yes you are. Also broken.

[R Mac]

I like how one candidate clearly being the anti-war candidate doesn’t offer anything for “libertarians”. Then again sarc supported the war in Ukraine until Lying Jeffy told him not to.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Sarc also now supports tax increases as long as they aren't Trump tariffs. No mention of Biden Harris tariffs.

[sarcasmic]

The fact that you don't bookmark comments where I condemn Biden-Harris tariffs doesn't mean they don't exist. It just make you a liar. And my saying that tax cuts that aren't paired with spending cuts means I support tax increases is just another case of you raging against the voices in your head.

Tell me, when you rehearse these arguments on your drive to your government contractor "job", do you do it outloud?

[sarcasmic]

Edit: ...my saying that tax cuts that aren’t paired with spending cuts is irresponsible policy means I support tax increases...

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You just admitted to supporting tax increases on your response. With the stupid dem talking point that spending doesn't go up with revenue despite decades of blue states doing just that.

You're either really stupid or you agree with dems.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Good for the anti-war NAP libertarians: Kammy noted that for the first time this century the US had no occupying troops engaged in war.

And Donnie lies with ease but could not lie to BFF Vlad about Ukraine - he obviously wants the Soviets to expand into its former satellite countries.

Foreign Policy = Big win for Kammy.

[ducksalad]

Trump had the better points on Ukraine: it’s mainly the European’s problem so they should be the ones mainly paying for it; there are practical limits to what you can do to a nuclear-armed power; and at times it has been the Biden administration urging the Ukrainians not to settle.

But as expected he botched it by making it about himself and how he'll solve all through the immensity of his own greatness.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

So right policy but you hate his presentation so it overrides the policy. Lol. God damn. Form over function. Every. Fucking. Time.

[ducksalad]

Basically, yes. An irresponsible, dishonest, untrustworthy, incompetent, mercurial egomaniac who happens, purely out of luck, to temporarily come down on the right side of an issue is not a good pick. He could change his mind tomorrow. (And you’d have to change right along with him, like your humiliating reversals on whether H1B professionals are good immigrants. Where are you on that one today?)

And that's true every fucking time, as you say.

Leaving aside that he’s massively wrong on issues that are much more important to me than the Ukraine, which is mostly none of our business. We’re wasting money on Ukraine but it’s not at the top of the list of stuff we waste money on.

[Mother's Lament]

"An irresponsible, dishonest, untrustworthy, incompetent, mercurial egomaniac who happens, purely out of luck, to temporarily come down on the right side of an issue is not a good pick."

Wow. An egomaniac.
That's almost as bad as a plagiaristic and corrupt, bribe taking drug warrior with dementia who tried to molest his daughter, or an idiot whore puppet who slept her way to success.

[ducksalad]

That’s almost as bad as a plagiaristic and corrupt, bribe taking drug warrior with dementia who tried to molest his daughter

We more or less agree, although I believe they’re equally bad on the whole.

an idiot whore puppet who slept her way to success.

Strangely enough, the only place I’ve been to where prostitutes invaded regular neighborhoods, rather than stick to some unofficially designated red light district, was in Abbotsford, BC. Actually came into a coin operated laundromat and propositioned me while my wife and I were just trying to get our clothes folded. Guess it’s a Canadian thing?

Having said that, I don’t care how Harris got into power. Her policies are bad to the extent they have any substance at all, and that's sufficient reason to vote against her. On the other hand, if some libertarian woman could manage to sleep her way to the presidency, I’d be fully supportive of that.

[Mother's Lament]

I said "whore", not "sexworker".

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Can you show me the substance of Chase's policies?

I mean you guys keep dismissing his support of identity based policy at the federal level. That's about the most detailed plan he has given. Oh and allowing castration drugs on minors for a mental illness.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

So again. You care about the form, not the function. Truly intelligent and libertarian.

You would applaud a benevolent dictator wouldn't you.

[Medulla Oblongata]

"he could change his mind tomorrow."

Fuck, Harris has changed her mind about 5 times today. There's almost NOTHING in her past policy positions that she says she supports now. Flippity floppity. Not a principled position in there anywhere.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Form over function.

In other words, Jesse's reason for dismissing Chase Oliver.

[Mother's Lament]

"iTs bEcaUsE hE iS gaY", totally not because his Covid stance was terrible... kinda like yours was.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Good for the anti-war NAP libertarians: Kammy noted that for the first time this century the US had no occupying troops engaged in war.

Yeah, that's a lie, too--we still have SOF guys in Syria and Africa carrying out operations right now.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

And just had 7 service members injured in a raid on ISIS in Iraq in the last week or 2.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Those troops blown up in Syria weren't occupying a foreign country or engaged in war.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Get real. A suicide bomber does not make a "war".

You're like that fucking idiot "John" that used to post here. He claimed the US was in a war with Libya when the locals killed that scumbag leader of theirs.

Do we meddle in other countries affairs? Sure we do.

Meddle =/= war.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the TDS-addled ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Shut up, Sevo. Go back to the kiddie table.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the TDS-addled shit-stain of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[R Mac]

You want to fuck sevo now too?

[Spiritus Mundi]

^^Didn't read the article^^

[R Mac]

Doesn’t matter. He’d lie either way.

[MT-Man]

What makes an insurrection?

[Spiritus Mundi]

Also, this is a good reminder of how Harris lied with impunity and gullible rubes lapped it up.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the shit-stain of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Rick James]

Masterful.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"Good for the anti-war NAP libertarians: Kammy noted that for the first time this century the US had no occupying troops engaged in war..."

And if Trump were POTUS, we'd have that and we would have avoided the disastrous retreat from Afghanistan caused by that master fuck-up, leakin' Joe.
But then turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[R Mac]

You were banned for posting a link to child porn.

[LIBtranslator]

Trumpanzista packing the court with Christian National Socialists eager to enslave and kill women who have sex was the big win for Kamala's party. They got beaten when Libertarian Gary Johnson drew off some 4.3 million leveraged, law-changing spoiler votes. THAT got their derelict attention quicklike. GOP mohammedans, slower to learn. Result so far: Donnie beat in Popular vote twice, electoral once for one in four. Betting outlook: Donnie beat in popular vote thrice, electoral vote twice, for one in six. Betting on elections was legal as sea salt before prohibitionists...

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Taylor Swift makes a presidential endorsement.

When did the NFL start funding Reason?

[NoVaNick]

Her endorsement will get all the parents of teenage girls who might be on the fence to vote for Kamala I’m sure…

[ducksalad]

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Somebody needs to get in touch with Mayor Quimby in Springfield to ask about the migrants who are eating all the dogs, cats, and ducks like Donnie says is happening.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Factio Democratica delenda est 5/30/24)]

I’m glad you asked, Turd, as someone actually is there now looking into this.

Tayler Hansen, and he’s posting it all on X.

https://x.com/taylerusa/status/1833860464629194931?s=46&t=qeA47-JjK6vq0pfnxg60dA

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Muir and democrats will just claim these aren't credible reports and deny all of it. Exactly what they did yesterday.

[DesigNate]

He’s not a real journalist. /s

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I am shocked no hand waiving by demsalad, Jeff, or sarc yet.

[R Mac]

You should turn yourself in for your crimes against children.

[LIBtranslator]

VIDS or it never happened!

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"Keurig to pay $1.5M settlement over statements on the recyclability of its K-Cup drink pods"
[...]
"...In annual reports for fiscal years 2019 and 2020, Kuering stated that its testing with recycling facilities “validate(d) that (K-Cup pods) can be effectively recycled.” However, according to the SEC, Keurig failed to disclose that two of the country's biggest recycling companies had expressed significant concerns to the company about the commercial feasibility of curbside recycling of K-Cup pods at that time and indicated that they did not presently intend to accept the pods for recycling..."
https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/wireStory/keurig-pay-15m-settle-sec-charges-related-cup-113549791

Pretty sure the only material which can be commercially recycled is aluminum; will the SEC go after paper mfgrs next?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Yeah. Lots of stuff is technically recyclable but there is no feasible way to do it profitably. Aluminum is the exception. As an environmentalist, I try to do my part by drinking large amounts of cheap canned beer.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Seems we were shipping a lot to China where it was 'recycled' as land fill, burning quite a bit of diesel to get it there besides.
It would make greens a whole lot more sympathetic if they quit lying to us.

[DRM]

Depends a lot on what you specifically mean by "commercially" there.

Beyond aluminum, metals of all kinds recycle pretty well, which is why there are large criminal enterprises involved in theft of the more expensive ones (copper, catalytic converters, etc.) now that prices are up from the early 1990s nadir. Which ones are the most profitable economically varies with current metal prices; on extraction-from-ore effort saved by recycling, aluminum is consistently best.

Iron/steel used to be the most recycled material by total tonnage, and is still generally worthwhile (most modern steelmaking plants assume a significant fraction of scrap as part of the input stream), though the relative decline of steel production in the US made it economically more marginal here.

In total US tonnage annually recycled, iron/steel was actually overtaken by asphalt, of all things, a few decades back. Nobody's going to make money gathering it up and selling it, but when doing road replacement, companies are no longer landfilling the stuff they remove, and not purely out of environmentalist appeasement.

Post-consumer paper was always marginal. Sorted, dry post-consumer newsprint was somewhat worthwhile once upon a time (which is why "newspaper drives" existed; if the quality control was done for free, the result was worth, well, less than the time of the people expended, but something, and it's not like the Boy Scouts were being taken off productive jobs to do the work). The decline in demand for newspapers plus the subsidized glut of other kinds of paper being collected in municipal recycling bins means nobody will pay for paper anymore. If we eliminated subsidized municipal recycling, the demand for paper to recycle might be enough to revive paper drives, it might not.

Glass bottles/jars theoretically could be worth recycling if they were reliably sorted separately (that is, consumers absorbed the labor expenses of gathering, separation and delivery), but it's an expensive hazard (breaking into sharp shards) in American single-stream "put it all in the blue bin" recycling systems, and glass bottles have been heavily displaced for consumer packaging by plastic anyway.

Plastic just really can't be done cheaper than converting petroleum. Which you'd think people worried about global warming would appreciate; turning petroleum into landfill means it doesn't get burned. But environmentalists are congenitally unable to prioritize, and so we increase carbon emissions in order to slightly reduce demand for landfills (which are less than 0.1% of US land use).

[Medulla Oblongata]

I've seen a new all-aluminum k-cup that's supposed to be recyclable with aluminum cans.

[rbike]

The Keurig guys really want to be environmentalists. But the bucket loads of money seems to get in the way. I was involved in a project to make the top seal pealable so that the user can peal the foil lid off and place it in the proper location. Also the plastic cup and filter and grounds need to be separated. Never going to happen in practice. But it would let them print "RECYCLABLE" on the labels. All about feelings.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

EU fines Apple $15 billion for Irish tax shenanigans.

That is why we have to be globalists.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Mother's Lament]

That's like saying we have to be globalists because people wear crocs to the supermarket.

[NoVaNick]

My lifelong dem wife was not particularly inspired by Kamala’s performance last night, or surprised by anything Trump said or did. Not sure why all the media outlets are jizzing themselves about it.
One thing that surprised me though was that Kamala flaunted her endorsement from Dick Cheney, someone most democrats I know considered a war criminal not that long ago.

[Ajsloss]

most democrats I know considered a war criminal not that long ago

That's been memory-holed, my good sir. Try to keep up.

[R Mac]

The left, including the fake libertarians at Reason, have given up all pretense of caring about war.

[Mother's Lament]

Since defecting neocons now make a large portion, why wouldn't they.

[LIBtranslator]

Break out the Trump butthurt salve. Apply liberally! Cry...

[Commenter_XY]

Sometime today, spare a moment for the 3,000 Americans killed 23 years ago in NYC, Washington and PA. I will never forget the day it happened; I was in mid-town when the first plane went in. The sound was incredible. The worst part was walking by billboard after billboard of pictures of the missing and lost, personal stories, for months; all were heartbreaking.

I know that I will be saying Mourners Kaddish, just for them, this afternoon at Mincah services.

[Mother's Lament]

Oooh, Aramaic. Cool.

[Dillinger]

lol we took a walk during the debate. all my neighbors seem interested in letting you know what they watch though, so you could see it from the street at about every other house

[Dillinger]

>>The immediate post-debate polls of voters all generally show that people thought Harris won the debate.

did you post the C-Span one that was 75%-25% in T's favor?

[Dillinger]

>>Taylor Swift makes a presidential endorsement.

Brittany Mahomes was stealing attention.

[Mother's Lament]

Trump gets RFK Jr., Elon Musk and Tulsi.

Kamkam gets Dick Cheney, Taylor Swift and Vladimir Putin.

Amazing.

[LIBtranslator]

Like Nick Sarwark said: “Your tears are delicious and your parties will die!”