Rachel Maddow: Liking The Lord of the Rings Is 'Far-Right'

Yes, J.D. Vance likes J.R.R. Tolkien. So do most people.

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow thinks it's very interesting that Republican vice presidential contender J.D. Vance named his venture capital firm after a magical object from the series The Lord of the Rings (LOTR).

"Lord of the Rings is sort of a favorite cosmos for naming things and cultural references for a lot of far-right and alt-right figures both in Europe and the United States," said Maddow on Wednesday.

She further noted that Peter Thiel, a billionaire venture capitalist and supporter of Vance, also named one of his companies, Palantir, after a LOTR item.

It is absolutely true that Vance and Thiel are fans of The Lord of the Rings, the fantasy series by J.R.R. Tolkien. Many arch-conservative and probably alt-right figures are as well. Moderates also love LOTR. So do liberals, lefties, and the completely apolitical. That's because LOTR is one of the most popular and best-selling book series of all time. The films, adapted for the screen by Peter Jackson, were among the highest-grossing movies of all time. They won 17 Academy Awards.

Everybody loves The Lord of the Rings. Really.

Tolkien set the baseline for modern fantasy: The ubiquity of archetypes such as the gray-bearded wizard, the immortal elf queen, the spectral dark lord, and the brutish orc are all due to his influence. His works are not exactly devoid of political themes, and they do depict a civilized "West" triumphing over the forces of evil. Tolkien's own views were somewhere between monarchism and anarchism—he had libertarian tendencies in terms of his distaste for large and authoritarian states, though he also fretted about industrialization's negative impacts on the environment and the community. His most overtly political character, the scheming wizard Saruman, can be read as a critique of urban development, but other scholars have read him as an imperialist or even communist figure, alternatively.

That's a long way of saying that The Lord of the Rings is, like many great works, open to interpretation. It is not a far-right text, despite whatever Maddow would have her viewers believe.

For a more thorough review of the politics of The Lord of the Rings, read Reason's Christian Britschgi.

Comments

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Guilt by association runs strong with that crowd.

[Nardz]

Robby, and a lot of "centrists", still hasn't figured out that everything good, normal, and/or healthy is far right.

[Chipper Chunked Chile Con Congress (ex NCW)]

Maddow is just pissed at the LotR universe because of how her people, the Orcs, are treated in the books.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Maddow is more like Wormtongue. She even wants to fuck the princess like he does.

[JohnZ]

At the very end of the Trilogy, Wormtongue and Saruman are met with the Hobbits returning from the wars. Wormy has had enough of Saruman and slits his throat whereby one of the Hobbits puts and arrow into Wormy.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

You'd think someone as dialed in to the establishment as Maddow would know that Palantir is a glowie firm funded by the CIA.

[JohnZ]

Maddow IS most likely CIA just as Gloria Steinham was and most of the MSM hacks.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

She doesn't like it because the One Ring to Rule Them All was destroyed instead of being used for cutting off lil hobbits' bits.

[I, Woodchipper]

they are absolutely losing their minds right now. it's glorious to watch.

[Minadin]

It's like November 9th, 2016, all over again, but this time you get to watch the train wreck in slow motion.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Can't lose something you never had.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

That idiot Maddow sounds shrill and desperate. I hope she keeps it up all the way through the election.

[JohnZ]

Just wait until late October when the realization sets in that Trump will walk all over the Dems and the possibility of a Republican controlled House and Senate loom large in the mirror.
She'll need some Thorazine to quiet her down.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Oh it gets worse. Him wanting to buried bear his family is white supremacy.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-host-calls-jd-vance-wanting-to-be-buried-in-family-plot-an-easter-egg-of-white-nationalism/

[Mother's Lament]

I'm starting to believe that most NBC reporting are dares to see what the craziest shit you can get your marks to believe.

Like the "okay" hand sign is a white supremacist symbol, or Biden's mind is razor sharp.

[Ajsloss]

You’ve never seen him behind closed doors!

[Stuck in California]

You're not that far off. Some of the shit that's been propagated was literally from 4Chan trolls trying to make it a thing and dumbasses like this chick on pMSNBC repeating it.

[Bill Dalasio]

Progressivism is the ideology of the managerial technocracy. They don’t want you valuing family, history, or tradition. You’re supposed to be an atomistic cog in the machine to be utilized and disposed of when you’re no longer useful. Nobody really wants that. So call it “racism”.

[diver64]

The flailing about with nonsensical farce like Rikki and LOTR is breathtaking. The more crazy the get, the more they seem to egg each other on and apparently are oblivious Americans are really waking up to what is happening. Spending over $100 week for 2 people's groceries and opening that new car insurance bill sure is an eyeopener.

[damikesc]

I like them pretending to be at the RNC when they are, in fact, in Manhattan.

[diver64]

Yeah, even Jack Tapper threw the flag on them.

[diver64]

Jake

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Biden = Theoden under Wormtongue's influence, and without his redemption.

[Zeb]

That's way too generous to Biden.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Yeah I guess so.

[JohnZ]

Whose mind was taken over by Saruman.

[diver64]

Rikki gets more ridiculous by the day. Keep reaching for insane reasons people should hate the side that thinks our borders should admit everyone on planet Earth including plague and measles carriers who immediately go on welfare, kiddy diddlers in bathrooms, state governments promoting your kids getting surgery to change their sex without you noticing, drag queens pushing porn in kids library hours and such other crap. Keep doing that, Rikki. Remember, Biden is the best most coherent version of a President and Foreign policy genius we have ever seen until he suddenly wasn't when the polls shifted.

[JohnZ]

Just wait until after the elections.
You may want to keep the volume on the TV set wayyyy down. The screeching will be heard all the way to Iowa.
She may even send out her flying monkeys.

[diver64]

Oh no. I will be on the internet as I don't have a TV like I was in 2016 watching the complete breakdown of the left.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

The LOTR movies are overrated.

I cannot pass judgment on the novels since I gave up about 2 / 3 through the first one. Couldn't force myself to care about that lengthy talkfest at the elves' domain.

Anyway MSNBC should stick with its far more potent anti-Vance attack: "Kamala's gonna cruuuuuuuush him in the debate!!!!"

[Zeb]

If you have to force yourself to care, then yeah, the book isn't for you. I think it's great and have read it maybe 10 times. No accounting for taste. I had some issues with the movies, but they were beautifully made.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

I had already watched the movies when I tried to read the book. So every chapter was either "Yeah, I remember this scene from the movie, whatever" or "I don't remember this scene in the movie, and the movie was coherent, which suggests this scene isn't necessary."

OTOH I had no problem getting through the first 3 Dune books after enjoying the Denis Villeneuve movies.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Always read the books before the movies.

[Minadin]

Hey, at least she's not complaining about how they left out Tom Bombadil.

[Idaho-Bob]

That was, and is, my biggest complaint!

[Mother's Lament]

^THIS

[Minadin]

What's the Scouring of the Shire, chopped liver?

[Ersatz]

its a made for tv movie or a streaming animation like the starwars stuff

[Trollificus]

That, me bucko, is an exceeding rare example of Hollywood "passing up easy money"; as a mini-sequel to the multiple denouemont of the movie has got "money-printing potential" written all over it.

Plenty of material there and if the stakes aren't existential-level, there are at least plentiful villains and tons of relatable protagonists.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

It just like how the Star Wars films left out Emperor Palpatine’s ne’er do well cousin, Jimmy Palpatine, from the New Jersey part of Naboo. The studio could easily have included him in the prequels. Joe Pesci would have been dream casting.

[tracerv]

He ran heuers out of Mos Eisley for a while. A real stunad.

[JohnZ]

That part of New Jersey that resemble Newark. Lordy!

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I didn't want to mention that part... big disappointment.

[diver64]

True but I think most who have read LOTR realize there was no way to make a movie having everything in it. 3 movies were not enough.

[markm23]

On the one hand, Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire were two of my favorite chapters in the books, neat little stories, complete in themselves, about good people doing good by behaving well. On the other hand, they were the two most obvious places to cut a very long story that made a ridiculously long video. They were totally aside from the main plot and left no dangling threads. The 3 movies together were nearly 9 hours without these bits, and stretching the series by another hour to include them would have been the opposite of an improvement.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Very true. Deep Throat is proof of that.

[JeremyR]

The Hobbit is a fun read. The LOTR books are not. Like War & Peace but not as interesting.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

I never even finished the Hobbit movies. I know I watched the first and possibly the second, but didn't bother with the third.

[Mother's Lament]

The Hobbit movies were fucking terrible. It turned a charming fairytale into an edgefest car chase.

From 10 years old to 20 I lived and breathed everything from the Hobbit to The Book of Lost Tales.

[Trollificus]

Really.
A 60-year lover of Middle Earth here, and I was bitterly disappointed in the Hobbit expansion,

The barrel chase/escape with amusement park ride design in mind, the excessive CGI orc mine collapse, Peter Jackson-worthy spider battle, everything bloated and and CGI'd to excess, the invented romance and mcguffin from nowhere... Ugh.

[diver64]

The thing that really turned me off was that idiot guy in the town who ran around in a dress or something and I guess was supposed to be funny? I'd have shot him myself just to get him to shut up

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

I always felt the Rankin-Bass animated version of The Hobbit was very underrated. Unlike Jackson’s Hobbit, it followed the story at least, and even did a decent job with the songs.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Where there’s a whip, there’s a way.

[Ben of Houston]

I was thinking Goblin Town personally. Properly set the scene for the threat of the orcs.

[Zeb]

I never understood people who think LOTR is a difficult or boring read. But then I think The Silmarillion is a fun read.

[Minadin]

Book of Lost Tales is a bit difficult.

And I usually stick to the prose works, though I've read the Narn i Hin Hurin and the Lay of Leithian each at least once.

[Trollificus]

Listen to the Christopher Lee audiobook version. That sonorous voice rolling out the names of places and characters...absolutely beautiful. The entire book sounds like a tone poem in an unknown, but beautiful, language.

[JohnZ]

I enjoyed both. It was my fun read when spring came around. I have the Scillymarillion and could not get through it though.

[Minadin]

I know a bunch of left-leaning LOTR nerds who are going to be absolutely devastated to hear that they are officially MAGA now.

[mad.casual]

[A Thinking Mind]

"Lord of the Rings is sort of a favorite cosmos for naming things and cultural references for a lot of far-right and alt-right figures both in Europe and the United States," said Maddow on Wednesday.

Okay guys, we've lost. When someone this moronic has a devoted following, we're seriously days from the end of civilization.

[Jefferson Paul]

For next week's Maddow show, she will up the ante by telling us all how Vance was seen making the "OK" symbol with his hand to demonstrate covertly that he's on board with the white supremacist agenda for the next Trump administration.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You say that in jest, but………..

[mad.casual]

I’ve got my fingers crossed that, for her next trick, she tries to bring back the term ‘porch monkey’.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Maddie resembles such a creature.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

She does kinda look like Randall from clerks.

[JohnZ]

IF they remake the Wizard of Oz, she could be the Wicked Witch of the West.
Anybody gotta pail of water?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Hmm, since I am the expert on the far right here I feel you Peanuts need some guidance.

There IS some controversy concerning Tolkien and how he depicted Orcs and other creatures in LOTR. Racial hierarchy is the favorite stomping ground of right-wingers.

It is summarized here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_race

But how can a writer create fictional character groups without assigning uneven attributes to them?

After reading the above Wikipedia article it is hard to seriously claim that Tolkien was a racist.

#NotaLOTRfan

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

After reading this Wikipedia article anyone can see you are such a liar, you even lie *in your username.*

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Sandy, the Jan 6 Jihadists and the 9/11 Jihadists had exactly the same motive - to destroy the secular globalist new world order.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Nope!

Stated motives:
Support of Israel by United States
Bin Laden's strategy to expand Al-Aqsa Intifada
Sanctions against Iraq
Presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia
Environmental destruction
American immorality
Conflict in Somalia, Chechnya, Kashmir, Lebanon and the Philippines
Liberation of Muslim lands

Inferred motives:
Religious motivation
Globalization (meaning revenge for "'humiliation' of the Islamic world," NOT the "you support open borders because you're a globalist" usage)
Provocation of war with the United States

Again, that's zero out of eleven overlap.

Whereas leftist hostage-poster-rippers have at least one gripe in common with Mohammed Atta: both object to "Support of Israel by United States"

And finally, don't forget your twin Jimmy Buttplug. His tactics (try to murder as many as possible) were the same as Al Qaeda's. Your loser brother only managed to get himself killed, fortunately.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Shrike is too stupid to understand any of that.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

These past couple weeks have been quite stressful. He's having trouble focusing. The President he's been cheerleading for 3.5 years might quit the race because his own party isn't sure he can win.

#Ouch

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Yes. It’s hurting him. And I want it to go on hurting him. Soon, even his child porn viewing won’t be a comfort to him.

[JohnZ]

The mood within the Democrat Party headquarters is doom and gloom from what I've been reading. They've all but conceded the race to Trump.
There is no hope for the liberals this time. And the thought of fronting Harris is so abhorrent to most of that crew, they won't even speak of it.
No hope, no hope, no hope, no hope.........

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Thanks for this, especially after your spot-on analysis of the trump assassination attempt.

“A “bullet” did not graze his ear. It was broken shards from the teleprompter.”

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

That was how Donnie's injury was initially reported.

Kind of like how you wingnuts claimed the shooter was some Antifa dude named "Mark Violets".

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

You held onto some pretty obvious bullshit for quite awhile there.

Don’t forget this one as well:

“I suspect some MAGA type was playing with his gun and it went off.”

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

“I suspect some MAGA type was playing with his gun and it went off.”

That was a good one. Pure Occam's Razor application.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

No, you’re just pure stupid.

Maybe you want to GTFO. You’re really getting smacked around now. And your democrat pals are gong to make that progressively worse. And I can’t wait to see what it will be like for you should Trump prevail.

[JohnZ]

The headlines from every major news outlet was so misleading and worthless as to be totally dismissed.
It was unbelievable what they printed.

[Jerry B.]

Both the teleprompters were still intact after the shooting. And no, there were not three.

[mad.casual]

And that’s not how bullets or glass or teleprompters or physics work.

[Ajsloss]

Exactly what someone who doesn’t trust the science would say.

[mad.casual]

It was a teleprompter!

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Yeah, but are we sure that climate change didn’t have something to do with it?

[CE]

Obsession with race and racial identity is the obsession of the left now. The right wants one law for everyone.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Which side moaned about the fake-controversy CRT for two years?

Agree, race grievance is a preoccupation of progressives. But the MAGA dude bases his campaign on Fear of Other Races.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

^Needs more minstrel affectation to be a true vintage butplug post about race.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Bet you have an orc lawn jockey.

[Mother's Lament]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttplug_and_race

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 3 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Uncle Clarence has had his hand out for over 20 years.
GIMME DAT WHITIE MONEY!
That fucking cop lover.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Taking on Katanji Brown Jackson for lowest IQ affirmative action hire
Uncle Clarence a candidate.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 19 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Sandy, I had a genuine fear that a Senator Walker would be shucking and jiving us good liberty-loving Georgians every day.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Many have asked for an update to the Buttplug Horse Race:
Tim Scott 400-1 Whuffo Bro? Whuffo is you in dis race fo, bro?

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Dude, I am from the South. You can’t troll me on race.
Do you remember Spermin’ Herman Cain? He sounded like a slave extra from Song of the South.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
No, you’re a fucking snowflake who only gets offended when one of your Lawn Jockeys is criticized.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 28 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Groveling like a shoe-shine boy, Tim Scott humiliates himself for Fatass Donnie.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 38 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
SE Cupp is a conservative commentator who is ashamed of Tim Scott’s groveling ‘Happy slave” act concerning Donnie.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 3 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Tim Scott’s Vice Presidential Debasement Is Almost Complete
Debasement? Are you for real? This smacks of racism.
Tim Scott’s twerking and jiving is just him feeling that ole-timey religion.

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 7 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Fact checking Tim Scott – Trump’s black friend/shine boy:

Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
How many little lawn jockeys are in your yard? I bet it looks like a scene from a Tarzan movie out there.

After reading the above Wikipedia article it is hard to seriously claim that Buttplug isn't racist.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

I suspect he’s one of the few remaining Klan members in Georgia. It’s long Democrat tradition there.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

He is a Klansical Liberal. Just ask him.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Nice.

[Scooter]

They've never forgiven the Republicans for freeing the slaves.

[Eeyore]

There has never been a human being more highly overpaid.

[CE]

I don’t know, have you seen some of the recent NBA salaries? Below average players are making 20 or 30M a year now. Guys who used to be good are making 50M.

[Eeyore]

Somehow they deserve it more.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Anyone who votes Democrat should have all their assets confiscated and pay 100% tax above $100k per year. There should be no such thing as a rich socialist.

[Chipper Chunked Chile Con Congress (ex NCW)]

You put too many zeros in that. $10k per year.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Ok, twist my arm. Or we could just indenture them to the government. That’s what they believe in.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

"There has never been a human being more highly overpaid."

Even including Butplug's $.50 ???

[mtrueman]

"There has never been a human being more highly overpaid."

How about the gym teacher at the University of Alabama? $10,000,000 a year for a season of 15 games.

Compare to Albert Einstein's salary at Princeton, where he was the school's highest paid staff member. He was paid $10,000 a year, worth about $178,000 yearly, making him the highest paid scientist in the country.

[JohnZ]

And most of his theories were crackpot.
Plagiarist and fraud.

[mtrueman]

Who was Princeton's gym teacher back in the 1930s? Clearly the guy doesn't get the recognition he deserves what with foreigners like Einstein and Godel hogging all the limelight with their 'theories.'

[Truthfulness]

The gym teacher at least knows how to do his job and the results show. He would've been fired had that not been the case.

Maddow on the other hand continues to lie over and over again, including lying about Tolkien and his fans, and keeps her job smearing others. That's not worthy of a penny.

[mtrueman]

"Maddow on the other hand continues to lie over and over again,"

She's a talking head on TV. That's how Trump started out. They're not the first people to make a career out of offending good people like us.

[JeremyR]

Have you missed the last 20 years? It’s been deemed racist for a while because orcs are considered (or “coded”) black, Muslim, or American Indian, or apparently even Mexican (probably someone at Reason agrees with this view) and that the whole thing is just a white supremacy fantasy about hordes of non-white people invading and being defeated by White Christians

They’ve had to change orcs in D&D from being Tolkien-esque to being, well, something. They can't quite decide what to make them that isn't offensive.

[JeremyR]

Oooh, and half-orcs are about white man's fear of white women marrying non-whites.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

More like black women’s fear of black men marrying white women. And for that ,after, the real racism against interracial relationships comes from the left.

[JohnZ]

Deys baby mommas gots nutin to be worryin' bout, nome sayin.
Deys still be all gettin pregnint an sheit.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Perhaps the Nazgul were only trying to immigrate to the Shire.

Rangers’ protection of The Shire = Trump’s border wall?

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

And speaking of walls, don't get me started on the Rammas Echor.

[Mickey Rat]

Apparently, they decided to make orcs Mexicans.

https://medium.com/@volkcolopatrion4/orcs-were-never-racist-untill-now-wizards-of-the-coast-4d47a933685f

[mad.casual]

Oh, Hey-Zeus! Not even "Like the orcs you used to know, just more brown-skinned and dark-haired and with the exaggerated features kinda... you know..." but full-on Looney Toons "What if we made our orcs look more like Speedy Gonzalez?"

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Just get rid of woke people. Problem solved. No more racism.

[mtrueman]

"Have you missed the last 20 years? It’s been deemed racist for a while because orcs are considered (or “coded”) black, Muslim, or American Indian, or apparently even Mexican "

They are coded to represent the things you hate. In Ukraine, they call the Russians Orcs, in Israel, it's the Palestinians. In America, it's only natural that Mexicans, Indians, Muslims and Blacks are identified as Orcs. It's not racism, as Russians and Ukrainians are the same 'race,' as are the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's just 'other.'

[Truthfulness]

They are coded to represent the things you hate.

Utter projection with absolutely zero evidence to support your claims. Tolkien was not thinking of any particular real life race when it came to the orcs, and you shouldn't either, let alone accuse others of doing such.

Stop defending stupid thoughts like you and Maddow have proposed.

[mtrueman]

You don't think the Ukrainians hate the Russians? Or Americans hate Mexicans? I can't believe you're serious.

[Truthfulness]

Non-sequitur fallacy. I'm serious on calling you out for committing it.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

MSDNC is wholly insane. Who didn’t know this before this week?

The “Boaf Sides” comparisons to FNC are a scurrilous insult to Fox

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

The trilogy His Dark Materials is definitely leftist though. I recall some conservatives boycotting it.

But Gone With The Wind is some righteous right-wing historical fantasy.

[Spiritus Mundi]

How about you favorite book, Lawn Boy?

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Is it about a Marxist pedophile and his grooming/raping activities?

[Mother's Lament]

The trilogy His Dark Materials is definitely leftist though.

A YouTube-tier antitheist's attempt at Narnia for Reddit-tier atheists.

[CE]

I always thought Tolkein was far-left. Lots of odd looking little people, and every race is assumed to have certain attributes, good or bad.

[Zeb]

Nah, he was a conservative Catholic anarchist.

[sarcasmic]

He was a man of his time.

[A Thinking Mind]

every race is assumed to have certain attributes, good or bad.

Races in his works are more like different species. They actually are different, with different physical attributes. Nobody would dispute that lions and house cats have distinct attributes, even if not all lions and not all house cats look identical to each other.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Maddow cannot create, she can only mock.

[Rick James]

What does liking The Rings of Power make you?

[Minadin]

I'm not sure, but it definitely doesn't make you a Tolkien fan.

[Mickey Rat]

Something that does not exist in Nature?

[A Thinking Mind]

Clearly this, yes. Something described by Lovecraft, clearly, which cannot physically exist.

[Chipper Chunked Chile Con Congress (ex NCW)]

Completely devoid of taste?

[AT]

Gay.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Gay nerds.

[Rick James]

Oh, speaking of Rachel Maddow, you know what I learned this week? Bill O'Reilly has a show.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug - Jan 6 = 9/11 (same motive)]

Saw him on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Interesting that they both got fired - Apple fired Jon for criticizing corporations and Bill-O got fired for sexual harassment.

Both causes very typical of their party alignments.

[Mother's Lament]

Yes, because Epstein, Weinstein and Clinton are Republican.

[JesseAz (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You forgot good ole Joe.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Most democrats are rapists and/or pedophiles.

[JohnZ]

Jon Stewart aka Jon Liebowitz

[Longtobefree]

"Everybody loves The Lord of the Rings. Really."

Except Rachel Maddow.
Which tells us a lot about Rachel Maddow.

[mad.casual]

Which tells us a lot about Rachel Maddow.

Kathleen Kennedy fan.

[Flaco]

I recall from when I used to watch the Colbert Report that he is a massive fan of LOTR. Wonder if Rachel thinks he's right wing also?

[Ska]

Yeah, one of the few things I like about Colbert is that he's done LotR faceoffs with people on his show and the dude knows that shit inside and out. Not just LotR; the whole Tolkien universe.

Colbert, alt-right edgelord.

[A Thinking Mind]

I'm sure he thinks black people are orcish.

[gnome]

I'm with J D on the subject of the mad cow. Alex Jones is just a harmless eccentric, but she is pure evil.

[sarcasmic]

Libertarians want to throw the ring into the fire because they don’t believe anyone can use it responsibly, while Democrats and Republicans take turns proving them right.

[Mike Parsons]

LOTR better or worse than the "OK" symbol, in terms of white supremacy? Please, in need of further instruction as to how I can label every random thing as "alt/far right"

Seriously, Colbert is a massive Tolkien fan, and had segments devoted to LOTR stuff.

Or are we going by modern standards now, where a book/movie that features lots of white/European people, and is also liked by a lot of white/European people, must inherently be a KKK white supremacy fest because god forbid the King isn't a black disabled person and the townsfolk look like downtown LA during pride month

[Brandybuck]

Do you know what Frodo did NOT do? Use the power of the state to wage culture war.

[Truthfulness]

Tell that to Maddow and the Biden administration, not us.

[Sal Paradise]

She has a face made for radio

[Ghatanathoah]

Next up she will expose how bread is a secret right-wing "dog-whistle." After all, most far-right types eat it!

[Stuck in California]

I think that's Mayonnaise.

[JohnZ]

I think you two are on to something here. Send a package to Madcow with a loaf of white bread and mayonnaise in it. Almost forgot....a bottle of WHITE milk.

[AT]

So do liberals, lefties, and the completely apolitical.

Sure they do. Same with Star Wars. That's why they go to great lengths to bastardize them. To turn classic hero stories of Good triumphing over Evil into woke narratives where the bad guy is actually just "misunderstood" and the good guy has lots of bad traits (unless he's black or she's a woman, in which case they're flawless from the start and always have been).

Liberals and lefties love these stories so much, they just can't wait to husk them out and gut everything that might suggest morals, values, goodness, courage, or heroism (especially if any of that is tinged with Christianity) - and then fill the empty corpse with a bunch of marxist nonsense, and parade it around hoping that the existing fanbase will affirm said nonsense because it trades off nostalgia. And then, when things like Rings of Power or The Acolyte get ratioed straight to hell on Rotten Tomatoes, they blame the audience and accuse them of racism, sexism, or otherwise just not being as "enlightened" as them.

You are smoking crack, Robby, if you think liberals and leftists love these stories. They hate these stories with every fiber of their being. Because these are stories of greatness. They're stories of sacrifice. They're stories of achievement. They're stories of nobility. They're stories of courage. They're stories of righteousness.

And there is nothing lefties and wokes hate more than any of that. That's why they say garbage like this:

That's a long way of saying that The Lord of the Rings is, like many great works, open to interpretation.

Nonsense. If you think "urban development" was on Tolkein's mind when he was writing Saruman then, again, you must be smoking crack. That's not "open to interpretation." That's you cherry-picking it to gear it towards your asinine and incorrect narratives. (Same way that one dork here was trying to do with the Bible the other day.)

That's you trying to destroy the story, to subvert and pervert it, because you hate it.

Maddow is just dispensing with the subtext. She knows what those stories are - and that's why she wants to discredit them, by equating them with "far right" and "alt right." Because God forbid someone watch (let alone read) them - they might learn dangerous things like hope, triumph, and goodness.

[mtrueman]

"Robby, if you think liberals and leftists love these stories. They hate these stories with every fiber of their being."

I agree, but not every fiber. Some of my fibers don't mind Tolkien. I don't like fantasy in general. Any book with a picture of a sword, elf or cave on the cover, I won't read. I've read Tolkien's books, even a few dozen pages of the Silmarillion. I like books with maps and an alternative world. It was the hippies who first popularized Tolkien back in the 60s when paganism and anticapitalism were the zeitgeist.

"That’s you cherry-picking it to gear it towards your asinine and incorrect narratives."

There are no 'incorrect narratives' to Tolkien. Asinine ones, yes, but no incorrect interpretations. That's the greatness of Tolkien, and all great literature, we get out as much as we put in, and everyone puts something different and unique in.

[AT]

we get out as much as we put in, and everyone puts something different and unique in.

"Obviously this was a literary reference to the modern transgender fad that didn't exist when the book was written."

*eyeroll*

[mtrueman]

"Obviously this was a literary reference to the modern transgender "

Not at all. It's essentially paraphrasing Jacques Derrida from the 1960s, when Tolkien first became widely read. Not everything is a part of this modern transgender fad you're so invested in.

Have you actually read any Tolkien? Your comments might make more sense if you did.

[AT]

My point was that narrative peddlers are always saying nonsense like that. “Obviously Huckleberry Finn was about the dangers of unchecked AI.” “All throughout his works, Edgar Allen Poe was clearly concerned with drone warfare.” “A Tale of Two Cites was about the ethical implications of terraforming another planet.” Stupid. It’s stupid on its face.

Narrative peddlers always try to take culturally significant art/events of the past and tie it to the present on subjects that didn’t even exist in the past.

Like the LGBT pedos suddenly peddling the “Lincoln was gay” narrative. (In fact, ask the pedos and they’ll tell you that EVERY significant historical figure was gay in one way or another – except Hitler. Never Hitler.) Give me a break. Because homosexuality was so prevalent and mainstream prior to the American sexual revolution. *eyeroll*

The Lord of the Rings was not about urban development. There is no way to “interpret” that from Tolkien unless you’re actively TRYING to because you want to legitimize the axe you’re grinding. There IS a correct answer as to the themes and ideas contained in LOTR – but urban development is not one of them. But that's what the left wants to do. They hate these stories, so they want to take them and twist them into things they're not; mutilate their greatness and apply it to their stupid asinine marxist narratives.

[mtrueman]

"Stupid. It’s stupid on its face."

It's not stupid. You shouldn't be so dismissive. Great literature is timeless. Thousands of years later we still find relevance in Homer or the bible, and consult them to understand the problems we face today.

I don't know what pedos you are talking to about literature, but you should also try to sound out non pedos for their opinions are just as valid.

"The Lord of the Rings was not about urban development. "

I think it's well known that Tolkien, an old style Tory, not a Whig or Liberal, was concerned with preserving and conserving English country life and environmentalism in general, and no booster of capitalism. It's only natural that readers seek out such influences in his work. It's there in Tom Bombadil or the Ents, the talking trees. I'm not sure if these are featured in the movies, but they're in the books, which I again urge you to read before passing judgement.

[AT]

It’s not stupid. You shouldn’t be so dismissive.

It IS stupid, and it SHOULD be dismissed. "Finding relevance in..." is not the same thing as "This was specifically about..."

If the narrative peddlers were being honest about reading their own prejudices into the stories, I could understand that. But they're not. They're declaring that the authors were echoing their own modern sentiments.

If you believe that Star Wars was ever about the social class struggle of bipoc lesbian space witches, then you're intentionally perverting the story to serve your own ends.

[mtrueman]

"If you believe that Star Wars was ever about the social class struggle of bipoc lesbian space witches,"

Star Wars is not great literature. It's genre and formulaic. Essentially hackwork, lifted from greats like Kurosawa Akira. Don't confuse it with something like Lord of the Rings which is a heck of a lot more substantive. If your pedophiles are telling you that Tolkien's masterpiece is at the same level as Star Wars, you need to find new pedophiles to teach you about literature and interpretation.

Tolkien was a life long Tory and lover of the English countryside. Intrepid readers have read his rich work sifting through it looking for evidence of his beliefs. There's nothing shameful or dishonest in the practice. No more so than readers looking for Capitalist apologetics in the work of Ayn Rand. Her work is at the Star Wars level, lacking subtlety and depth, but the principle is the same - the author's personal beliefs and history wind up in the work they produce, and readers are free to tease them out if they wish, or like you, stick to the surface.

[AT]

Star Wars is not great literature.

I didn't say it was. But it does have the same cultural impact, and it's why it's so brazenly exploited by those who want to wear it as a skinsuit to make their own asinine ideology seem mainstream.

Intrepid readers have read his rich work sifting through it looking for evidence of his beliefs.

There's a difference between "looking for" and "making up to shoehorn into an agenda."

People who think Tolkien was about urban development are the same morons who think that Joan of Arc was a feminist who would have defended abortions. Of course, they don't ACTUALLY think that - they're just exploiting the story to advance their own narratives.

[mtrueman]

"But it does have the same cultural impact, and it’s why it’s so brazenly exploited by those who want to wear it as a skinsuit to make their own asinine ideology seem mainstream. "

Maybe you should consider a career as a writer for Maddow. You seem to have a rich imagination and are able to express yourself well. Do you think Star Wars is being exploited by the unscrupulous to promote pedophilia? Can you expand on that?

"There’s a difference between “looking for” and “making up to shoehorn into an agenda.”

I'm not sure. You have to look for 'something' and you have to know what you're looking for and you have to want to find it. All scholars have an agenda. It's hard to imagine them spending several years on a project, writing a scholarly book for example, if it didn't fulfill their needs and desires.

"they’re just exploiting the story to advance their own narratives."

There's nothing wrong with this. It's not illegal and it's even constitutionally protected under the first amendment, and thanks to the wisdom of our beloved founding fathers, has been since the founding of this once great nation. Besides, give me someone advancing their own narrative over another who's content to advance somebody else's narrative, every day. The one advancing another's narrative is likely to be an insincere hack and their opinion is to be automatically discounted.

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

Preach.

[NoVaNick]

I didn’t know who was more retarded-Maddcow or her audience, but now I think she is actually pretty smart for understanding just how retarded they really are and will eat this shit up. The Chronicles of Narnia are another classic series that lefties hate.

[AT]

Wait for it. They got the woke fembitch that did Barbie to direct their new ones.

$100 says she doesn't realize - or worse, does realize - that Aslan is Jesus. And perverts the heck out of it.

[mtrueman]

" I think she is actually pretty smart "

I'm sure she's very smart, and hard working, too. But she's a talking head on TV, and she has to come up with something new and different every time she appears. Who else in the MSM is talking about JD's taste in literature, and generating dozens of thoughtful reactions in the comments of Reason and god knows where else?

[JohnZ]

It's called "catering to your audience" .
Sorta like Colbert, Kimmel and what's his name.

[mtrueman]

Trump made a fan of The Sound of Music the ambassador to Austria. If this vice president thing doesn't work out maybe JD could be our next ambassador to Middle Earth.

[Truthfulness]

Hank is that way, mtrueman. Go babble your antisemitism with him.

[mtrueman]

Trump hired the ambassador to Austria on the strength of the guy's love of The Sound of Music. Apparently, he knew it back to front. Of course Middle Earth doesn't exist and I referenced it to make a joke which you seem to have found antisemitic. C'est la vie, mon ami. A big mozel toff to all your Jewish friends.

[cavehobbit]

So we get the name of Thiels' firm, Palanitir, but not Vance' firm?
And Maddow gets it wrong claiming it is Naria so she could claim it was just Arian swapped around, which is also a misspelling. She is so desperate to get a hit on the guy she has to misspell a word to swap it to get another word to damage him, and the correct word would have made a 'correct' misspelling.

Is she really that stupid?

[Dan S.]

LOTR was once associated with hippie culture, which was associated with the left. Before the live-action movies, there was the animated version by Ralph Bakshi. And Led Zeppelin has a few Tolkein references in their songs. Doesn't sound very right-wing to me.

[JohnZ]

Who really gives a flying f*** what that nasty, ugly, ignorant lesbian says?
What is it about PMSNBC that has so many near literate, morons featured? There isn't much entertainment value at all.

[Dan S.]

I don't know anything about Maddow's sexual orientation, and I'm skeptical that you do. In any event, it is utterly irrelevant. But it does seem like she is talking nonsense here.

[r]

Babylon Bee: Within 6 Months Humanity Will Run Out Of Things To Call Racist

When the Bee is reporting real news, you know the crazy has hit the fan.

[JohnZ]

Indeed. No matter how outrageous, sooner or later it becomes reality.

[Winston in Wonderland]

Tolkien was no warmonger, but like other men of his generation, served several months in the trenches of France. He endured numerous artillery barrages, and gas attacks. He went "over the top" more than once, and eventually contracted trench fever from lice in the trenches.

He lamented having to command men.

Perhaps not uncoincidentally, most of his worst experiences were along the "Ourcq" River in France.

[David Emami]

Only tangentially related to the story, but watch the scene in "1917" with the river choked with dead bodies, and you get some idea where Tolkien's idea of the Dead Marshes came from.

[JohnZ]

Makes one wonder where the creature Gollum was inspired by?
Woodrow Wilson? Randolph Herst? Winston Churchill?

[David Emami]

"He is in great fear, not knowing what mighty one may suddenly appear, wielding the Ring, and assailing him with war, seeking to cast him down and take his place. That we should wish to cast him down and have no one in his place is not a thought that occurs to his mind. That we should try to destroy the Ring itself has not yet entered into his darkest dream."

Which pretty much sums up many authoritarians' perception of libertarianism.

"Everything except Rules got shorter and shorter, unless one could hide a bit of one's own when the ruffians went round gathering stuff up 'for fair distribution': which meant they got it and we didn't."

Which nicely summarizes socialism.

[Ben of Houston]

If Trump said the sky was blue, the media would bend over backwards declaring that it's purple. This goes for anyone associated with him too, and it's absolutely absurd.

[David Emami]

"You shouldn't smash your hand with a hammer. Bad idea. Believe me. Hurts a lot. Super painful. Even Slow Joe agrees. Worst move ever."

[Panhandle]

When you have to start making these types of comparisons, you have literally run out of things to talk about. Even stupid things.

[John C. Randolph]

"J. D. Vance enjoys great literature" isn't quite the smoking gun that she thinks it is.

-jcr

[mtrueman]

Have you read his book? Pretty good. I liked how he didn't indulge in sentimentality or self pity, even though he portrayed a horrific childhood. How Vance turned out as an adult is another story. Yale? It's the most coddling of the Ivy League schools. A career in law and politics? Even yuckier. Iraq? Yuckier still.