What If the U.S. Cuts Off Aid to Israel?
Ending U.S. aid would give Washington less leverage in the Middle East. That's why it's worth doing.

On March 14, 2024, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D–N.Y.), a man who 13 months prior had vowed at Jerusalem's Yad Vashem World Holocaust Remembrance Center that "as long as Hashem breathes air into my lungs, the United States Senate will stand behind Israel with our fullest support," peered solemnly over his glasses into the Senate's C-SPAN cameras and informed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that it was time for him to go.
"The Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel after October 7," Schumer declared, referring to the shock Hamas massacre and mass kidnapping event just across the militarized border separating the Palestinian Gaza Strip from the Israeli envelope around it. "Nobody expects Prime Minister Netanyahu to do the things that must be done to break the cycle of violence, preserve Israel's credibility on the world stage, and work towards a two-state solution….At this critical juncture, I believe a new election is the only way to allow for a healthy and open decision-making process about the future of Israel."
And if Netanyahu, in such an election, were to win enough votes to form another government, then continue prosecuting the war against Israel's attackers in ways Schumer doesn't approve?
"Then," the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in U.S. history warned, "the United States will have no choice but to play a more active role in shaping Israeli policy by using our leverage to change the present course."
It's an increasingly common refrain among American critics of Israeli policy, including many who are otherwise wary of Washington thumbing the scales on world affairs: The $3.8 billion that the U.S. gives each year should directly influence Israeli behavior—on war, on humanitarian assistance to Gaza, on settlements in the West Bank, even on proposed reforms to the judiciary branch—or be withdrawn.
"The Netanyahu government, or hopefully a new Israeli government, must understand that not one penny will be coming to Israel from the U.S. unless there is a fundamental change in their military and political positions," Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) said last November, reiterating a critique he and several other candidates made when seeking the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.
President Joe Biden, a stalwart supporter of Israel throughout his half-century in public office, seemed this spring to be moving closer to Sanders' point of view. Three days before Schumer's well-telegraphed speech, Politico reported, based on "four U.S. officials with knowledge of internal administration thinking," that Biden "will consider conditioning military aid to Israel if the country moves forward with a large-scale invasion of Rafah."
The Rafah offensive was indeed tabled a few days later. But then, after the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on April 1 pulverized a World Central Kitchen aid convoy in Gaza, killing seven, Biden informed Netanyahu in a tense phone call that (in the words of a White House readout) Israel needed to "announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers," or else, for the first time in a generation, the U.S. would hold up military aid.
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.) and three dozen other members of Congress sent a letter to the president April 5 urging him "to reconsider your recent decision to authorize the transfer of a new arms package to Israel, and to withhold this and any future offensive arms transfers until a full investigation into the airstrike is completed." NBC declared this a potential "turning point" in U.S.-Israeli relations.
But that turn lasted fewer than 10 days. On April 14, Iran fired more than 300 potentially lethal missiles and drones into Israel, marking the first time the Islamic republic had directly attacked the Jewish state, after decades of supporting proxy harassments from Hamas, Lebanon's Hezbollah, Yemen's Houthis, and various armed factions in Syria and Iraq. Largely thanks to the technological and regional military agreements that the U.S. and Israel have jointly forged, virtually all of the projectiles that did not misfire were intercepted.
"Now is not the time to abandon our friends. The House must pass urgent national-security legislation for…Israel, as well as desperately needed humanitarian aid for Palestinians in Gaza," Biden wrote in The Wall Street Journal three days later, in support of a supplemental $26.38 billion Israeli package. "I've been clear about my concerns over the safety of civilians in Gaza amid the war with Hamas, but this aid…is focused on Israel's long-term defensive needs to ensure it can maintain its military edge against Iran or any other adversary."
That same day, after months of delay, embattled House Speaker Mike Johnson (R–La.) announced that the aid bill would finally be introduced on the House floor. The only attached condition was imposed not on Israeli policy makers but on the controversial United Nations Relief and Works Agency operation in Gaza. So much for a turning point.
Yet the conversation about leverage is precisely the one America needs to be having while confronting yet another deadly and seemingly intractable standoff in the Middle East. A realistic contemplation of Washington's regional and global system of carrots and sticks, at a time when American imperial appetites are on the noticeable decline, might reveal some awkward if potentially game-changing truths. Beginning with: There are many on the pro-Israeli side who want the same policy result as Bernie Sanders, for precisely the opposite reasons.

End it, Don't Mend it
Three months before the October 7 massacre, the American Jewish publication Tablet published a provocative essay by Jacob Siegel and Liel Leibovitz bluntly headlined "End U.S. Aid to Israel."
The brief: "Israel ends up sacrificing far more value in return for the nearly $4 billion it annually receives from Washington. That's because nearly all military aid to Israel…consists of credits that go directly from the Pentagon to U.S. weapons manufacturers," they wrote. "In return, American payouts undermine Israel's domestic defense industry, weaken its economy, and compromise the country's autonomy—giving Washington veto power over everything from Israeli weapons sales to diplomatic and military strategy."
Critics of Israel, particularly in light of the subsequent war with Hamas, will surely blanch at the notion that Washington has anything like "veto power" over Tel Aviv. Yet America has nonetheless coordinated and consulted on policy far more closely with Israel, including during this conflict, than it has on, say, nearby NATO ally Turkey in its ongoing battles with Syrian Kurds. All at a time when the comparative purchasing power of America's Israeli aid has plummeted.
"The Israel of 2023," Siegel and Leibovitz observed, "is immeasurably wealthier and more powerful than the dusty socialist country of 40 years ago, where local electrical grids could be overloaded by American hair dryers." Boy howdy is it.
Israel now has a highergross domestic product (GDP) per capita than Japan and Italy, and is closing in fast on France and the United Kingdom. In 1981, as the hawkish former Assistant Secretary of State Elliott Abrams pointed out in Commentary last year, "the United States provided Israel with $4.5 billion in economic and military aid at a time when the entire GDP of the Jewish state was only $25.4 billion." Now? GDP is north of $500 billion.
Annual U.S. aid has gone from 17.7 percent of the Israeli economy to 0.7 percent; even with the big new cash infusion, that figure goes up this fiscal year to just 5.7 percent. And as Biden himself crassly observed when selling the supplemental, the strings attached include "send[ing] military equipment from our own stockpiles, then us[ing] the money authorized by Congress to replenish those stockpiles—by buying from American suppliers….[We're] help[ing] our friends while helping ourselves." So America is sending money that Israel no longer needs to lock in long-term contracts for the military-industrial complex. (The 10-year, $38-billion Memorandum of Understanding signed by President Barack Obama in 2018 allowed for Israel to spend about a quarter of the annual total on its own domestic defense production until this year, after which the percentage is to be ratcheted steadily down to zero.)
This close military partnership, which has been the basic bilateral setup since not long after the 1967 Six Day War, has produced benefits for both Washington and Jerusalem. Israel gets some of the world's most advanced defense tech, such as the Iron Dome and David's Sling missile-interception systems; the U.S. gets premium intelligence in a volatile region and a privileged seat at the table for making commerce-lubricating peace deals.
But it's also true those contracts could be freely entered into, without a cent of U.S. taxpayer money, just as both Sanders and anti-interventionist Republicans like Sen. Mike Lee (R–Utah) would prefer. What would happen to American influence then?
"Weaning Israel off of American assistance would have the added advantage of removing the issue of conditioning such aid or using it as leverage, ideas that sometimes surface when the United States and Israel differ on important policy issues, such as the peace process," former Israeli Justice Minister Yossi Beilin and former U.S. ambassador to Israel and Egypt Daniel Kurtzer wrote four years ago in The National Interest.
In other words, say goodbye to Schumer's—and Biden's—serially insisted-upon "two-state solution," which has been a political non-starter in Israel especially since October 7. And don't be surprised if the country's regional Qualitative Military Edge, enshrined in U.S. law, would be deployed more freely in preemptively striking Iran's offensive capabilities, whether in missile production, nuclear development, or senior-level military planning.
So would cutting aid to Israel actually lead to more, not less war? Making predictions in the Middle East is a fool's errand. But one way to think through the scenario planning, and move faster toward a world where foreign policy commitments are more commensurate with the domestic public opinion of the countries involved, is to remember a factor that too often escapes attention: Israel is hardly the only country along the Arabian Peninsula to receive billions in American military aid.
What Leverage Bought
If the U.S. permanently cut off all aid tomorrow—and even if the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the infamous "Israel lobby," were suddenly to close up shop—the bonds of affection between the two countries would still remain strong. According to a Gallup poll, Israel has for the past quarter-century been among the leading countries toward which Americans have the most favorable opinion. Eighty-five percent of the world's Jewish population lives either in the U.S. or in Israel, in roughly equal numbers (the numerical capital of Jewry is not Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, but New York City). There are some 200,000 dual citizens living in Israel; at least 33 were killed by Hamas on or after October 7, and five more were still believed to be held hostage as of May 1. Even as Americans—particularly Democrats, and the young—have soured on Israel's prosecution of the war, there remains between the countries a shared liberal democratic (and capitalistic) culture and decades' worth of human intercourse.
Now consider Saudi Arabia.
The country that has purchased more U.S. military equipment than any other—at $140 billion and counting—has been unpopular with the American public for the entire 21st century, and not only because it was home to most of the September 11 hijackers. The House of Saud's dictatorial monarchy routinely ranks near the bottom of global freedom indices, women only recently were granted the right to drive a car, and the regime infamously assassinated Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018. Saudi Arabia has been a prime mover in the brutal, decade-long Yemeni civil war, a conflict that the United Nations estimates has led to nearly 400,000 deaths, most of them civilian.
Yet in the absence of any American sympathies at all, Riyadh has still been a key strategic partner with Washington for going on eight decades. Why? Oil production is certainly part of it, though Russia and Venezuela also have tons of the stuff. The truth is that the kingdom has been deft enough diplomatically, and flush enough with spendable petrodollars, to keep insinuating itself into whatever preoccupations the American empire has at the moment: the Cold War, the Gulf War, the Iraq War, containing Iran, and doing the often messy work of behind-the-scenes negotiations on military logistics, CIA skulduggery, and peace deals.
It is in that latter category that the Saudis find themselves yet again the object of not-quite-requitable American desire, this time in the form of a tantalizing peace pact with Israel, one that could potentially dwarf in practical and symbolic significance the historic 2020 Abraham Accords between the Jewish state and Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan, and the United Arab Emirates. The Saudi asking price thus far? Just a military security guarantee, the likes of which America has only with Japan, South Korea, and the members of NATO.
Such are the realities of American leverage in the Middle East. Washington now includes among its major non-NATO allies Qatar (circa 2022, in exchange for help with U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan), Tunisia (2015, for its role in the Arab Spring), Morocco and Kuwait (2003, for assistance in the war on terror), Bahrain (2002, ditto), and more than a dozen other countries, including Israel and Egypt.
When states are both relatively poor and militarily insecure, as Israel was in the 1970s and Egypt remains to this day, the lure of access to the world's dominant military can persuade otherwise reluctant leaders to do things they and/or their populations would rather not. Like siting U.S. military bases, or taking the American side in a regional conflict—or recognizing Israel's right to exist.
Israel since its 1948 inception has been the single largest recipient of U.S. aid, at north of $300 billion in constant 2024 dollars. Clocking in at No. 2, with more than $150 billion, is Egypt. This American money bought the modern Middle East's most foundational peace treaty. That 1979 deal, brokered by President Jimmy Carter, not only formally ended the longtime antagonists' various wars; it marked the first time an Arab country formally accepted Israel's existence. For that move against the preponderance of his country's public opinion, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat paid two years later with his life.
Such are the inherent and ongoing tensions of bribing authoritarians to make unpopular deals, particularly in countries predisposed toward resenting Israelis and/or Americans. The basing of non-Muslim U.S. troops near Saudi Arabia's holy Islamic sites of Mecca and Medina was the original radicalizing complaint of Osama bin Laden. The Jordanian population, long encouraged to treat neighboring Israel as the enemy, was ill-prepared to accept King Hussein's 1994 signing of mutual recognition, nudged in part by President Bill Clinton's promise to forgive $700 million of the country's debt. A 2022 poll of the Hashemite kingdom by the Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies found opposition to diplomatic recognition at a staggering 94 percent.
That number would almost certainly be lower if the Jordanian monarchy didn't choose to stoke anti-Israeli sentiment in public while cooperating privately to such a degree that the country shot down several Iranian missiles before they could even cross into Israeli airspace. King Abdullah II called for three noisy days of national mourning last October over the deadly explosion outside of Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital even after Israel's involvement and the initial death toll had both been convincingly debunked. Queen Rania that same month told CNN that the world "silence" in the face of Israel's war was "deafening," and that "to many in our region, it makes the Western world complicit." The kingdom tamps down criticism of the normalization deal (which it still publicly defends) and prevents protesters from ransacking the Israeli embassy but otherwise keeps the rhetoric ratcheted.
A poor country with rampant unemployment, Jordan is a top-10 recipient of U.S. aid, and it relies heavily on Israel for trade and resource cooperation. Caught literally between Iran and Israel, home to a large and restive Palestinian population, beset by months of anti-Israel protests, the monarchy is increasingly fragile and constantly triangulating. If the U.S. were to suddenly pull the rug out from underneath Jordanian aid, some 6 percent of the country's GDP would go poof.
It is easy to look upon such realities as an excuse to keep perpetuating the American foreign policy status quo. If leverage in the authoritarian Arab neighborhood has bought peace deals with Israel, the reopening of the Suez Canal, and the forging of an anti-Iran axis in the Persian Gulf, why threaten to unravel these projects by beating a hasty retreat?
That question implies a far-too-rosy picture of the status quo, and it ignores the extent to which American public opinion deviates from the conventional wisdom in Washington.
Imperial Autopilot
The American-led world order, with its emphases on international cooperation, tariff reduction, and mutual military treaties, arose out of the ashes of World War II as a bulwark against communism. That comprehensible project, while the source of semi-constant controversy in implementation, was broadly popular in the United States; it was articulated regularly by every president from Harry Truman to George H.W. Bush. With the end of the Cold War, and the failure to secure an explicit postwar settlement, came the end of domestic support for America's starring global role.
What happens when institutions wheeze on long after their rationales have collapsed? Elite corruption and populist revolt.
Corruption doesn't necessarily have to mean self-enrichment, though surely the people near the top of the American foreign policy pyramid rarely have to scrounge up their next meal. It's more about the temptations of using America's unmatched power. In the immortal 1993 words of the United States' then-ambassador to the United Nations, Madeleine Albright, spoken to the more restraint-oriented Colin Powell, "What's the point of having this superb military that you're always talking about if we can't use it?" Albright's interventionist point of view ended up winning the battle for Clinton's foreign policy, and then Powell became the chief salesman for President George W. Bush's disastrous war of choice in Iraq.
Afghanistan was America's longest and least popular war, yet imperial autopilot, along with the fallacy of sunken costs, meant that it took more than two decades until Biden finally (and messily) ended it. NATO, and Washington's preeminence within it, is still the dominant military paradigm on the decidedly non-American continent of Europe, even with the open skepticism about the alliance expressed serially by the former and possibly future president Donald Trump.
America has already retreated under both Trump and Biden from its legacy role in reducing global tariffs, embracing instead the kind of made-in-America mercantilism that generations of their predecessors had mostly resisted. Wherever there is some 75-year-old, Washington-forged institution and commitments thereof, there is active domestic politics railing against it.
Washington's leading role in the Middle East is somewhat younger, at around a half-century, but similarly archaic. We no longer need to counter the Soviet Union, no longer depend on foreign oil, and no longer cling to the messianic delusion that liberal democracy in the region can be spread at the point of a gun. If you could somehow wipe the slate clean and craft a new U.S. approach to the Middle East that would better align with public opinion, what would that look like?
Almost certainly, the vast majority of foreign aid to this and other regions would vanish overnight. Nos. 3 through 10 on the 2022 aid-recipient list—Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan—would be cut off. But Nos. 1 and 2 might well remain.
The Intolerability of October 6
The Republicans who unsuccessfully opposed the $95 billion aid package to Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan were onto something, as have been such presidential candidates as Pat Buchanan, 1992 Clinton, and 2000 George W. Bush. Americans are generally weary of throwing billions abroad at problems that should be solved by someone else, particularly when there are unresolved problems galore at home.
But specifically, Americans favor helping with the defense of Ukraine (No. 1 on the 2022 aid recipient list), Israel (No. 2), and Taiwan. In the absence of a coherent and comprehensible strategy, one that reflects the more modest ambitions of voters, foreign policy remains subject to the temporal emotions and legacy attachments of the public. Jordan probably wouldn't win an up-or-down referendum on U.S. support; Israel almost certainly would. Both, however, could benefit from being cut off.
The Israeli case for independence is largely about latitude, but not only: Having to spend $3.8 billion a year rather than receive it means making some responsible choices about budget priorities. Authoritarian Arab governments, too, need to take, rather than continue to shirk, responsibility.
The horrors of October 7 revealed that the seemingly operable status quo of October 6 was in fact untenable. It was, and is, untenable for Israel to live next to neighbors, to the north and southwest, who regularly fire rockets into the country and sporadically dig tunnels to execute acts of terrorism. It's untenable for Gaza's residents to live under the dictatorial whims of a theocratic death cult that takes money from foreign governments not to build prosperity but to harass and murder Israelis. It's untenable for the region's autocrats to loudly pin the blame for their own heavy-handed misgovernance on American and Israeli scapegoats while quietly reaching out for assistance from Washington and Tel Aviv.
Qatar enjoys the status of being a major non-NATO ally with the U.S. while also financing and sheltering the leadership of Hamas. That too is untenable, and the designation should be withdrawn. Residents of the Palestinian West Bank live in a harassed and conflict-ridden uncertainty and emasculation, with second-class property rights and lousy government services. Untenable. Iran flexes its muscle to turn parts of Israel's neighbors into vassal states rather than fully fledged independent entities. None of this is tenable.
Meanwhile, the U.S. floats above the whole region, handing out aid and military contracts like a grand seigneur, hoping on Mondays to build peace, on Tuesdays to launch airstrikes, and on Wednesday try to tamp down the resulting messes from spreading into a regional war. It does deals with some of the most hideous regimes on earth while the captive populations seethe.
It is axiomatic, yet catastrophically underappreciated in Washington: Those with the most power will inevitably behave corruptly, and those without responsibility will inevitably behave irresponsibly. An Israel less tethered may feel less constrained, sure, but it may also find itself more isolated on the world stage, and therefore a tad more cautious. Arab leaders without the American security blanket may find themselves having to speak blunt truths to their populations, including about the true sources of their comparative lack of prosperity and freedom. And a United States less compromised by getting its thumbs in every pie will potentially have more, not less, moral standing in the world.
So cut off Israel. And Egypt, and Jordan, and Saudi Arabia as well. Let them bear the responsibility of their own actions, and the costs of their own security. It's time to consciously manage America's imperial drawdown, rather than careen between fading Atlanticism and resurgent populism. What's the point of having this superb military? To defend America.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "Cutting Off Israel."
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Fat lot of good it's done them so far
Israel is rich enough that they don't need our help. One more thing we could shed to cut the budget down to size.
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and ANY signatory to the UN genocide convention is violating their agreed obligations by supporting them in any way.
Israel was created, supported and only exists because it receives more aid from the US than anyone else.
Why do you think the cost of living has soared? Genocide is expensive.
When Israel is recognized as the terrorist state it is, anyone sending a single shekel to them will be breaking the law. Money is worthless when your resources are limited and you’re boycotted.
Israel is surrounded by the people it has oppressed with western support for the last 76 years.
Stupid fucking Jews have brought this upon themselves, like they always do. The difference is that this time the truth shared and stored with social media is defeating propaganda for all time.
Controlling mainstream media no longer controls communication.
Worst genocide ever.
Refuted!
The fuckwit brain trust demonstrates that it can’t refute.
Most people would call the perpetrators of a genocide, terrorists.
Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general and is opposed to Israeli apartheid of Palestinians.
In the following video he puts into perspective what you won’t see in our western propaganda.
Between 40:40 and 43:45 in the video he describes the Israeli terrorism of Palestinians.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
But I learned it from you. First person to shout "refuted" wins.
This is the way.
Misek is a unique type of faggot who will scream at the top of his lungs that a genocide witnessed by millions and testified to by its on perpetrators never happened, but a ‘genocide’ witnessed only by Hamas and nobody else, is totes real.
Why does he? Because it’s demonic.
Also: Refuted.
Hey! There's no need to besmirch faggots by associating them with Misek.
Refuted!
Faggots in the 4chan sense. Not a bundle of sticks or gay men.
True, there is a wide spectrum of faggots.
Refuted.
Refuted, motherfucker.
"Israel is committing genocide in Gaza..."
The Nazi asswipe Misek,
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Misek never reads the articles, goes straight to the comments section, shouts "GENOCIDE" and responds to pushback with more bullshit propaganda. Thank god for the MUTE function.
The bigotry button. Press it and you don’t even see counter arguments much less recognize the need to refute what you deny.
Has anyone refuted anything that I’ve said? You know, proven it wrong aka “refute”.
Prove it. Describe what you think has been refuted and post a link to it.
How many times have I challenged you fuckwits to do this and you’ve never done it?
Sucks to be you.
Remuted
I keep him unmuted so I know what misconstruemans next argument is.
How does it feel to never have refuted anything that I’ve said?
Irrational?
You've been thoroughly refuted dozens of times here by many people, and the "evidence" you present always turns out to be some unhinged rant by an idiot, and never actual evidence at all.
You're nothing more than a liar. A psychotic little perverted liar.
No cite. No proof. No refute.
You’re the demonstrated liar Kol Nidre boy.
Linking to someone screaming about Joooz and how they hate them isn’t a cite, proof or refutation of anything, liar.
Never, not even once, have you provide one piece of concrete evidence backing your stupid little lies.
Also, how the fuck is Kol Nidre an insult?
Oh, fuck. My apologies, Misek. You were right all along:
https://babylonbee.com/news/gaza-health-ministry-confirms-8-billion-dead-in-israeli-hostage-rescue
First you say I’ve been refuted, you can provide no examples, then you say I’ve presented nothing to refute.
Which is it fuckwit?
Calling someone a “Kol Nidre boy” is only an insult if they value truth. Jew don’t.
Refuted, dork.
First you say I’ve been refuted, you can provide no examples
Hundreds of thousands of witnesses from the Soviet, American and British armies, tens of thousands of German soldiers, thousands of German civilians who were forced to walk through the death camps, the camp commandants themselves, the guards, the SS planners who survived, surviving Nazi leadership, German newspaper men and Allied war correspondents, all the fucking infrastructure, the film reels, the photographs, the impeccable Nazi documentation, and all the prisoners who survived say the Holocaust happened.
But you, you shitty little lying shill, say that well over a million witnesses are conspirators and mountains of physical evidence are lies, just to nurse your fucking derangement.
You claim you have evidence but never once have you produced it, just linking to evidence-free rants by those possessed by demonic forces.
Fuck you. Fuck you, you dishonest garbage and fuck your lies.
I’ve refuted that BULLSHIT propaganda story, victim gold card crutch, countless times and to date none of you have ever refuted anything that I’ve said.
There are only two possible explanations for this.
First, I’ve shared the truth that cannot be refuted.
Second, you’re too stupid to refute what you deny.
Which is it?
The following points refute key elements of the embellished WW2 holocaust with logic and science. Truth can’t be refuted.
There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. There is no physical evidence. Any activity that demonstrates and shares evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.
The fact that all evidence that refutes the holocaust is criminal in every nation where it allegedly occurred is especially relevant if you are accepting any evidence at all from those nations.
Refusing to consider evidence is the definition of bias, bigotry and a disregard for justice.
Without objective forensic evidence all we have is a story made up of piecemeal recollections of events from paid and coerced fuckwitnesses.
I refute those stories with correctly applied logic and science.
The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That couldn’t have happened as claimed. The story is bullshit.
Jews have published books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging piles of gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.
But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it years later.
Those Jews lied.
Anyone who ever saw the naked body of somebody who died from cyanide asphyxiation would NEVER forget the red skin colour. The bodies necessary reaction to being unable to process oxygen.
Not a single surviving fuckwitness ever mentioned it.
Also, no dark cherry red skin discolouration was visible in any supposed photographs of bodies of so-called victims of the holocaust.
The fact is that it can’t be explained it and only bigotry prevents you from recognizing the ONLY logical conclusion.
Not a single fuckwitness testimony or alleged photograph of bodies was of anyone who died from cyanide exposure.
So much for the “evidence” of a holocaust.
And so it goes with every bullshit story told by paid and coerced lying Jews. The facts prove otherwise.
Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.
Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of.
Here are some actual enigma decrypts from Bletchley park in 1942 when deaths were at their highest.
Covering the period 3rd Aug. 1942 – 25th Sept. 1942
A further examination is made of Concentration Camp figures; deaths from typhus have reached a very high figure in AUSCHWITZ.
A suspected case of typhus is reported from AUSCHWITZ (223b/42). It is probable that on the 6th August Nachschubkdtr. Russland Mitte requests typhus vaccine for 50 men and spottenfever serum for 20
For the first time returns are given for deaths of prisoners (223b/14,24,43,50): the figures for August are: NIEDERHAGEN 21, AUSCHWITZ 6829 (or 6889) men, 1525 women;.
Firstly the number of dead for the month are nowhere near what is necessary to support the holocaust narrative.
Secondly, notable is the concern over typhus deaths and the requests for medical supplies to treat.
Thirdly, are you willing and eager to perform the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?
That would require you to really believe that Germany INTENTIONALLY lost the war to cover up the holocaust while ostensibly leaving lying witnesses alive in the prison camps to tell their stories as they retreated.
The contradiction refutes the story.
Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.
The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.
The story is told by one Jewish survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.
She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.
They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.
Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.
There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.
There are military aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.
Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school.
The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.
The Red Cross was founded in 1863 with the purpose of protecting the interests of victims of conflicts.
The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.
The holocaust fairytale requires us to believe that they were so unaware of what might be happening that they completely missed 95% of the victims in prison camps.
AND that they had not so much as an inkling that a holocaust was going on right under their noses even though allied media propaganda was reporting it and it was their sole mission to identify it. Because there is no evidence of any Red Cross document suggesting they did.
Are you performing those feeble mental gymnastics?
Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used for years before and during the war widespread and throughout Europe among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.
Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.
Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.
According to the testimony of the so called survivor, the timing entering the chambers immediately, the details shirtless survivor, piles of bodies with unvented cyanide gas pockets in every space between bodies, death from repeated exposure as per testimony would have been necessary, not just possible.
All Jews saying they did that necessarily lied.
According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.
Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.
If Germans had used gasoline engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though Germany had plenty of gasoline for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.
Somebody is lying. They weren’t both steam chambers and diesel gas chambers. Which stupid lie is more believable? Does it even matter to you?
The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.
There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.
Head of British Psychological Warfare Executive (Propaganda), Victor Cavendish-Bentick in a handwritten note, wrote on Aug 27th, 1943,
“We have had a good run for our money with this gas chamber story we have been putting about, but don’t we run the risk eventually we are going to be found out and when we are found out the collapse of that lie is going to bring the whole of our psychological warfare down with it? So isn’t it rather time now to let it drift off by itself and concentrate on other lines that we are running.”
Public Record Office Document F0371/34551 revealed by Stephen Mitford Goodson, ‘Inside the South African Reserve Bank’.
Jews had been publicly claiming holocausts of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945.
You are really bad at this. There is always the third option, which you don't mention. That you are just wrong and badly informed.
Refuted.
Not that there's much use in pointing this out, but I see that you're still peddling that fake Victor Cavendish-Bentick quote I discussed with you some months ago.
This post on the Stormfront.org forum (https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t808720/) lays the evidence out fairly clearly, but you may have to be willing to engage your brain (or do additional research) to fully understand the evidence presented there. Maybe I can help? Here's what it says there:
"On August 27, 1943, Cavendish Bentinck made the following observation:
"In my opinion it is incorrect to describe Polish information regarding German atrocities as "trustworthy". The Poles, and to a far greater extent the Jews, tend to exaggerate German atrocities in order to stoke us up. They seem to have succeeded....
I think that we weaken our case against the Germans by publically giving credence to atrocity stories for which we have no evidence. These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the stories of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie and led to the true stories of German enormities being brushed aside as being mere propaganda." [2]
[1] Victor Cavendish-Bentinck Minute, August 23, 1943, Public Record office, FO 371/34551
[2] Victor Cavendish-Bentinck Minute, August 27, 1943, Public Record Office, FO 371/34551"
That's allegedly what Victor Cavendish-Bentick had written, in a handwritten note, memorialized as "FO 371/34551". (I say allegedly, because I have not seen the actual handwritten note, and I've never seen anyone other than Paul Norris claim to have seen it.) In any case, let's assume for the moment that this is an accurate quote from an actual document written by Cavendish-Bentinck.
The Stormfront.org forum post then goes on to quote infamous, discredited historian David Irving, who gave a speech in 1988, saying:
"In one memorandum, Victor Cavendish-Bentinck, the Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee, writes a handwritten minute to this effect: 'we have had a good run for our money with this gas chamber story we have been putting about, but don't we run the risk that eventually we are going to be found out and when we are found out the collapse of that lie is going to bring down the whole of our psychological warfare effort with it. So isn't it rather time now to let it drift off by itself and concentrate on other lines that we're running'."
You don't have to be especially bright to see clearly that in his speech Irving was paraphrasing (badly, and deviously) what Cavendish-Bentinck's supposed handwritten note had said. (The first clue was the words, "to this effect"...) Obviously, Irving was neither providing nor claiming to be providing a brand new Cavendish-Bentinck quote from the same source document.
But you have ignorantly (or intentionally) attributed David Irving's delusional interpretation of what Cavendish-Bentinck had written to Cavendish-Bentinck himself. There is no evidence Cavendish-Bentinck wrote those words in 1943, but there is evidence that David Irving said them during a speech in 1988.
I have pointed these facts out to you several times in the past, which you have seen and acknowledged, so your repeated false attribution of them to Cavendish-Bentinck can be nothing other than a lie, and you are a liar. Have a nice day.
“ In any case, let’s assume for the moment that this is an accurate quote from an actual document written by Cavendish-Bentinck.”
By all means let’s…
Therefore Cavendish, the psy ops man responsible for spreading the tale of gas chambers AKA THE HOLOCAUST STORY to the public during WW2 admits that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support the propaganda.
Thats why I’ve used Cavendish as a reference to refute that part of the holocaust narrative.
As before you admit that you haven’t seen what else Cavendish also said and cannot refute my reference from another source.
Even though it’s entirely plausible that he would have said it given that we agree he knew there was no evidence of a holocaust.
In the end, you agree with with me about what Cavendish knew but disagree with some irrelevant details that you can’t refute.
I’m having a great day.
Shorter Misek, when refuted. “Nuh uh!”.
Hey, Bob Misek,
When you're taking flak, it means you're over the target. Hasbara trolls are tryin' to get that bonus.
Flak would indicate a threat.
These fuckwits can’t recognize much less refute truth.
They better hope they’re paid by the hour.
And now Misek is samefagging his posts.
You haven't used Cavendish to refute the gas chamber evidence; you have used David Irving.
I don't know why you insist on falsely attributing Irving's words to Cavendish (because his actual words could still be considered to support of your argument), but you do--and you continue to do so even after being informed of your error. You're not making a "mistake".
That leads me to conclude that you simply have no interest in the truth, and that you are an unrepentant liar. You're worse than Trump in this regard, because he at least has mental issues which prevent him from differentiating between truth and fiction. What's your excuse?
This is from your quote attributed to Cavendish which YOU agreed to accept as genuine. It’s what you base your argument on.
“ I think that we weaken our case against the Germans by publically giving credence to atrocity stories for which we have no evidence. These mass executions in gas chambers remind me of the stories of employment of human corpses during the last war for the manufacture of fat, which was a grotesque lie”
Here CAVENDISH says the gas chamber story is like “a grotesque lie”.
As the chief allied propagandist, that completely refutes allied propaganda of gas chambers.
If it were actually occurring why would he call it a grotesque lie?
You really should save this discussion and link for the next time you try to claim that you’ve refuted anything that I’ve said or support the bullshit WW2 holocaust story in any way.
You know, as proof.
I know I have.
The record will simply show that you are conveniently forgetting that your bald-faced lie is not that Cavendish-Bentinck had expressed scepticism in 1943 about the Polish and Jewish gas chamber claims, but the fact that you keep claiming that David Irving's sensationalist words were actually Cavendish-Bentinck's.
Either you are incapable of admitting error (and thus continue to lie simply to avoid doing so) or this particular false quote is extraordinarily important to your cause.
Maybe you just don't want to talk about David Irving for some reason...
Irving is irrelevant.
You’re a useful idiot who has refuted the gas chamber story without wanting to.
I will definitely keep posting my quote that you can’t refute.
I hope you respond similarly so I can post this discourse again and again and again.
Thanks fuckwit.
No, thank you. You have exposed yourself (no doubt not for the first time!) as an unrepentant liar whose pathetic cries of, “no one has ever refuted me,” are as empty and hollow as his pitch-black soul.
I am quite sure that you will continue to lie, we will continue to know, and you will die having convinced not a single rational person of the perverted “truth” you incessantly hurl into the void.
It doesn’t matter what you want.
If you ever again dare to say that you’ve refuted my cavendish reference, I’ll simply challenge you to prove it with a link.
Whether to do or not is still a win win for me.
I’m pleased with these optics.
You're only "pleased with the optics" because you're unhinged. The same defect which prevents you from admitting error or learning from your mistakes. So, I'm absolutely sure you will continue to repeat your lies (the one I point out is probably a very minor one) until the end of your days. Like David Irving. (If he's still alive.)
Another thing you don't understand is that Nazis and antisemites are not evil because they do evil things, but because of who they are. I personally don't care whether the Holocaust occurred in exactly the way we have been told or if it has been exaggerated (as Cavendish-Bentinck had speculated).
Nazis and antisemites, along with racists and every other stripe of authoritarian and bigot the world has produced are evil because of who the are. What they manage to do in furtherance of their evil nature is merely evidence.
(You are clearly an antisemite, but are you a Nazi, too? I mean, admittedly and proudly a Nazi?)
Are you one of the “chosen people” or was it “the master race”?
Which secret satanic pyramid scheme society do you belong to, the Freemasons or the Thule?
Do you chant the Kol Nidre plan to lie to people?
It doesn’t matter, you advocate it just the same.
Refuted. There. Youre wrong again.
There’s no need to refute such idiocy. It does it all on its own.
Telling yourself that only feeds your bigotry.
You’re obviously disturbed by it.
Rational people recognize that you can’t refute what I say.
I’m pleased with the optics.
Refuted, Nazi scumbag.
Rational people see you for the Holocaust denying, Nazi scum you are.
Again, I have to say that definition of Genocide you are working from is utter bullshit. Under the UN definition you love to dig out every war ever has been Genocide. Thus making the term useless as it becomes a synonym for war.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say Israel is pure as the driven snow. They seem to enjoy war with their neighbors too much for my taste. But Genocide? No.
Both Israel and the US are signatories to that definition of genocide.
Planning to and implementing killing women and children, starving the population and bombing refugee camps is what Israel is doing in Gaza.
That is genocide, not simply “war”.
Planning to and implementing killing military units and terrorists hiding amongst women and children, starving military units and terrorists hiding amongst the population and bombing military units and terrorists which have embedded themselves within refugee camps is what Israel is doing in Gaza.
That’s not what Netanyahu and his ministers are on record saying.
Netanyahu told the IDF to commit genocide by referencing the Jewish biblical “god approved” genocide of women and children with the story of AMALEK. Clearly inciting genocide. With over 24,000 non combatant women and children intentionally targeted and killed and IDF soldiers on record rejoicing about it referencing Amalek. The effect of Netanyahus instructions are clear.
Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant said Israel was fighting “human animals” and that they will be “starved of food and water” which Israel has done and continues to do.
Amichay Eliyahu, the minister for heritage, suggested dropping a nuclear bomb on Gaza. Israel isn’t even supposed to have nuclear weapons. Saddam Hussein was hung for crimes against humanity and he didn’t even have WMD much less threaten to use them.
The country’s mainly ceremonial president, Isaac Herzog, who described Palestinians as “an entire nation out there that is responsible” demonstrates the Israeli genocidal intention.
These statements in combination with their actual execution clearly meets the UN definition and criteria for genocide aka holocaust.
If they weren’t stupid fucking Jews they might not have tipped their hand, and tried to lie their way out of the repercussions for genocide and crimes against humanity, like you are.
Why don’t you just admit that you advocate genocide in Gaza like they already did?
wow! jews must be pretty stupid!….
You
what proportion of nobel prizes in sciences have be won by people of jewish descent?
Copilot
Of the 965 individual recipients of the Nobel Prize and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences between 1901 and 2023, at least 214 have been Jews or people with at least one Jewish parent, representing 22% of all recipients1. This is a significant overrepresentation considering that Jews comprise only 0.2% of the world’s population. Here’s the breakdown of Nobel Prizes in sciences won by individuals of Jewish descent:
Chemistry: 36 winners (19% of total)
Economics: 38 winners (41% of total)
Literature: 16 winners (13% of total)
Peace: 9 winners (8% of total)
Physics: 56 winners (25% of total)
Physiology or Medicine: 59 winners (26% of total)
This data highlights the remarkable contributions of Jewish individuals to the fields of science and economics.
You
what proportion of nobel prizes in sciences have be won by islamic people
Copilot
As of 2023, there have been fifteen Nobel Prize laureates who were Muslims1. Out of these, four have been awarded for their contributions to the sciences. Here’s a breakdown of the Nobel Prizes in sciences won by Muslims:
Chemistry: Three Muslim individuals have been awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry1.
Physics: One Muslim individual has been awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics1.
It’s important to note that the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine and the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences have not yet been awarded to Muslim individuals. The proportion of Muslim Nobel laureates in the sciences is relatively small compared to the total number of Nobel Prizes awarded in these fields. However, each laureate’s contribution is significant and a source of inspiration.
Are you going to admit that you advocate for the genocide in Gaza like the Israeli government did or not?
It’s also irrelevant that Arabs invented math.
you keep using that word… "genocide"
I advocate for the eradication of every person that participated in the slaughter of Jews on Oct 7th and of all the people that Hamas is hiding amongst that support said slaughter.
As to the ones they are hiding amongst that are effectively hostages of the people they voted in to be mistreated by - "sow the wind, reap the whirlwind". Its an unfortunate but predictable consequence of voting in psycopaths to be your governors .
Yes the entire world is using the term genocide to describe what Israel is doing in Gaza. Thats why they’re on trial for committing genocide in the ICJ.
Eradicate everyone who enabled October 7 eh?
Then you want to eradicate the Israeli government and military.
All those pooor jews on your list.
October 7 was an inside job.
The following video is the best compilation of evidence to date that proves October 7 was an inside job coordinated by Israel as an excuse to commit genocide in Gaza.
https://richardgage911.substack.com/p/new-documentary-on-gaza-october-7
The video proves that Israel, funded, coordinated and enabled the October 7 attacks.
It shows that Israel opened the gate to welcome trucks carrying Hamas through the wall.
It shows how Israel not only ignored repeated warnings from their many surveillance sources but withdrew all defences from the wall and emptied their military bases just hours before the attack and had ZERO response for more than 6 hours.
It shows and proves that the IDF attacked the concert goers and the kibbutz’s with Apache helicopters and tanks.
It shows that they sacrificed dozens of their IDF forces to blame Hamas.
It shows that only handfuls of Hamas soldiers wandered for hours through the evacuated areas looking for soldiers to fight but finding none.
It shows that the hostages that were taken by Hamas said they were treated well.
It shows that Israel has funded Hamas with billions in cash in suitcases in the backs of cars
October 7 was an inside job.
-you
Yeah – not a conspiracy theory at all!
Pleeeeeze! the Israelies aren’t Hamas – they dont plan for and faciliate the murder of their own people for a photo op or strategic\political advantage and sympatetic press. Hamas does, though.
“ they dont plan for and faciliate the murder of their own people for a photo op or strategic\political advantage and sympatetic press”
That’s exactly what they do.
“The Hannibal directive”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
They invented a numeric system. The Greeks invented mathematics. You may notice that most of the geometry proofs have Greek names, not Arabic.
What do you do with a numeric system besides math?
but hey!… maybe the Hamas portion of the muslim inteligencia can win a new prize for killing the most of their own people by using them as human shields.
It may not be a science prize but surely something they can take pride in.
The contribution to the world brought by Jews it pales in comparison to the benefits brought to the world by Hamas in eliminating their own population by hiding amongst then when they are being hunted.
You
what proportion of the world population is muslim
Copilot
As of the latest available data, Muslims make up over 24% of the world’s population1. Islam is the second-largest religion globally, with more than two billion followers, and it is projected that Muslims could outnumber Christians by the year 2050
I don't care who all signed it. The wording is bullshit. An enemy in war sucking at their job doesn't make it genocide.
Of course the perpetrators and advocates of genocide want to redefine it.
Biden is demonstrating that the US is Israel’s genocidal bitch. That’s on every US citizen.
What kind of lying genocidal wastes of skin, sign, ratify and renege when caught in the act?
You tell me Kol Nidre boy.
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
The US Code also defines ethnic cleansing as genocide. Under that standard, then, yes, the Israeli actions in Gaza constitute genocide.
Did the US and it's allies in WWII commit ethnic cleansing against the Japanese? After all, the US Army Air Corp dropped a shit ton of explosives on Japanese cities. Hell, the only two nukes used in war were dropped on Japan by the US. So was that genocide, ethnic cleansing or just plain being an asshole?
Mksek, fuck off. Hamas are the murderers. Israel just defends itself. And only a subnormal fool (like you) would believe Hamas casualty data.
If this comment isn't removed after all these flags, literal racist diatribes, why do we even have that system?
You can’t refute what I say so you want to censor it.
You’re an irrational bigot and opponent to free speech.
People like you are why free speech is 1a.
The buttons are there for fuckwits like you to feverishly push in your circle jerk of bigots.
Bigots? You’re an anti semite. You’re the bigot. You support terror organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian regime.
Seriously, fuck off back to Stormfront you neo Nazi faggot.
You read too much of Israeli Hasbara (propaganda). As a Rothbardian AnCap Libertarian, I rather like Hamas and Hezbollah. I find no attacks by them to be unprovoked. Yes, I said it. All of Hamas & Hezbollah's attacks were justified. Every claim by Israel has later been found to be a lie.
Misek, this is pathetic, even for you. I suggest suicide. Best thing for you really. Your comments are going nowhere.
If you’re hoping to refute this guy and claim refuting me, you’re delusional…more delusional.
Anonymous coward identity is your schtick not mine Kol Nidre boy.
You need to look up the word genocide.
You need to look up the word signatory.
You need to commit suicide. Just to teach us a lesson.
As soon as you use the word genocide the rest is tuned out. I'd say your own fantasy laws against lying would be used against you.
Arguing while “tuned out” is bigotry.
I don't know. Maybe if you didn't have hostages this might have been averted?
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-horror-movie-scenes-as-210-palestinians-killed-during-israeli-rescue-mission-hamas-claims-13150084
More than 200 Palestinians were killed as Israel raided Gaza to free four hostages, Hamas claims, in one of the bloodiest days of the war.
How about heroic being in quotes? Remember, you can never hate journalist enough.
During the mission, hailed as "heroic" in Israel, the military said it freed the hostages under heavy fire and responded with strikes "from the air and from the street". Nuseirat, a historic Palestinian refugee camp, led to scenes like a "horror movie", according to residents.
I do loathe journalists, but quotation marks in that usage makes sense, since they were quoting what was being said in Israel.
I see your point but, I think the author could have done without that particular word quoted. It seems he is putting emphasis on the word to signal which side he is on, imo.
Yeah, it's kind of a tough one. Certainly, words often are scare quoted to repeat them sarcastically, and it's a lot harder to tell when it's a single word like that. I believe it would have been equally correct from a grammatical perspective if it has been written as: During the mission -- which has been hailed as heroic in Israel -- the military said it freed the hostages under heavy fire and responded with strikes “from the air and from the street”. Nuseirat, a historic Palestinian refugee camp, led to scenes which residents described as "like a horror movie”.
Except for the part where the phrasing "Nuseirat led to scenes", of course. Perhaps "The mission in Nuseirat [...] led to scenes", or the like.
Anyway, I do see your point. I dunno. Maybe I'm just too inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt even after they've repeatedly demonstrated they don't deserve it, and, indeed, do not yet hate journalists enough. 😀
Awesome reply.
I think we are pretty much on the same page. Anyone who hates the journalist class can share a beer with me anytime too! Nice to have a civil back and forth.
Have a great Sunday and take care my friend.
How many thousand Palestinian hostages does Israel have right now?
The media call Palestinian women and children hostages “prisoners”.
Zero, but you're going to pretend that 25-year-old sociopathic Hamas regulars are "women and children", aren't you, you lying freak.
To be fair, Hamas regulars are mentally equivalent to children. Also, Misek is a worthless bucket of bilge slime.
All the Palestinian hostages are currently being held by Hamas - they are the people Hamas terrorists are forcing to let them hide behind
You swallow Hamas propaganda like you swallow cock at your local glory hole.
Israel has ~8500 Palestinian prisoners that are held w/o any sort of due process whatsoever. Ages ranging from 4 y.o. on up. Some of these prisoners have had their organs harvested (Israel is known to be a top destination for organ transplants).
Almost all of the Israeli hostages taken were in the IDF as evidenced by the rank listed in front of their names in the newspaper. The kibbutzim surrounding Gaza are well known to be highly militarized, for logical reasons.
Everyone in this thread should look up The Hannibal Directive. This explains the large death toll on 10/7.
Cool story sahib.
“Jerusalem
CNN
—
Israel has transferred hundreds of Palestinian detainees out of the shadowy detention facility of Sde Teiman in Israel’s Negev desert, a state attorney told Israel’s Supreme Court on Wednesday during a first-ever hearing about the facility where prisoners from Gaza have allegedly been held under conditions of extreme abuse.
State attorney Aner Helman told the court that 700 inmates had been moved to Ofer military facility in the occupied West Bank, with another 500 set to be transferred in the weeks to come. Around 200 detainees will remain in Sde Teiman, said Helman, who added that the state would provide an update on their status within three days.”
Is CNN antisemitic too?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/05/middleeast/israel-top-court-sde-teiman-hearing-intl/index.html
So Hamas's claim is that they were keeping the hostages in a refugee camp?
One of the hostages was kept at a journalist for Al Jazeera home.
Good old Al Jazeera. Just a neutral bunch of journalists.
I'm sure it was a mostly peaceful refugee camp where the children learn to fire rockets and be human shields.
I think the Biden Administration and Hamas have the same PR flack.
Easiest place for Hamas to get a ready supply of meat shields.
FAFO
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Yeah. I have a plan that will end Israeli action in Gaza within 24, and possibly as little as 12 hours.
1.) Return all of the hostages, whether they are still alive, or they are dead.
2.) Turn over anyone involved in the actions of October 7th, including all of Hamas.
3.) Invite a team of truly multipartisan inspectors in to look for the bodies of any hostages they no longer have, and to search for further war making capability on the part of Hamas.
Boom. Done.
Hans Blix, please pick up the red courtesy phone.
https://youtu.be/UIPSvIz9NDs?si=5WWXjEs5ngAXp7n-
Fuck you Hans Blix!
“Why is erryone so fucking stupid?”
“I’m ronely, so ronely.”
If Hamas were to surrender, IDF would massacre/starve/destroy the entirety of the Gazan civilian population.
If Israel were to surrender you only have to read the original Hamas charter to find out what Hamas would do.
Hamas kills it's own people on purpose.
Fuck off Misek.
200 number is suspect. The same group who claimed the hospital hit by a Hamas rocket claimed 500, ended up being under 30.
That was my first thought as well. They have been giving false numbers since the get go.
Remember those generators are about to run out of gas at the hospital!
https://babylonbee.com/news/gaza-health-ministry-confirms-8-billion-dead-in-israeli-hostage-rescue
It’s a genocide!!!1!1!1!! - Herr Misek
Is it correct to refer to a 14 year old boy as "herr"?
It would be more appropriate to refer to Misek as "her".
The Misek Caucus is the nazi wing of the LP.
Fuck you.
Yeah, we knew it was you bitch. All those loads you swallowed at the local transit authority men’s room probably rotted your brain.
Refuted.
""The Netanyahu government, or hopefully a new Israeli government, must understand that not one penny will be coming to Israel from the U.S. unless there is a fundamental change in their military and political positions," Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) said last November, reiterating a critique he and several other candidates made when seeking the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.
That is not a "critique", that is a demand that fools like Bernie Sanders be allowed to dictate foreign and defense policy to Israel.
Remember, cutting aid to Ukraine will show our allies they cannot trust us.
Doing so to ISRAEL, however, somehow will not.
^x10 The degree of "Not just cutting aid to Israel either, and in both directions." cannot be overstated.
I don't like cutting aid to Israel, but I understand it. There is no sense, none, in funding/defending Ukraine over Israel. It's like 10:1. To the point that Israel can almost certainly succeed without us, assuming we don't impose or allow political fallout to eviscerate them and Ukraine cannot succeed, despite not facing a nominally existential foe, even with our help and, even if they could, would be a desiccated husk of a former democracy that's dropped half their population into a meat grinder.
"Former democracy"? I suppose, but I guess the memory hole has consumed the general impression of Ukraine just 5 years ago, as more corrupt and despotic than Putin's Russia.
Yeah. I think the fact that a significant portion of the population has been herded, by their own government, between the mines planted by their own military (https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/06/30/ukraine-promises-inquiry-banned-landmine-use) along imaginary social constructs and into the meat grinder but, yeah, desiccated husk of a former kleptocracy, desiccated husk of a spun off failed state, desiccated husk of a former democracy... take your pick.
I mean, I'd be one of the first to point out that the military group or faction that would plant mines against it's own civilians in such an unknown, uncontrolled, and even rogue fashion would, in an unbiased analysis, seem to be the most likely candidate to perpetrate a war-crime against NATO in their own favor and against a mutual enemy. I'd also be the one to further point out about how cries of 'Genocide!' in Israel conveniently drown this out the fact that we would be funding the side of this violent rogue, arguably terrorist, state in the conflict. But we can go on about whether Ukraine was a kleptocracy or failed former democracy if you like...
It’s one of those delightful leftist projections that “anti-imperialism” and “anti-colonialism” involves the US and/or some arbitrary world government body telling a sovereign nation it can’t defend itself.
Supporters of “intafada revolution” surround White House:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/protesters-surround-white-house-call-for-intifada-revolution/
“Protesters chanted “Globalize the intifada,” “There is only one solution, intifada revolution,” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” only steps from the White House. The protest was organized by a range of pro-Palestinian organizations, including CODEPINK and the Council on American–Islamic Relations.
A group in keffiyehs and black ski masks held a banner that read “Jihad of Victory or Martyrdom” and “Al Qassam.” They chanted “Hezbollah, Hezbollah, kill another Zionist now.”
A man wearing a black ski mask and holding a megaphone approached me and asked if I was “Zionist” or “Israeli.” When I did not respond, he followed me and shouted through a megaphone, “Stay away from the Zionist.” He told me he was “with the H-Team, the people who start with ‘H.’”
So CODEPINK is pro-war now (at least as long as the war is against Israel)? As well as kidnapping and rape as a tactic?
You know, it’s funny… Darfur/Sudan, Yemen, Yugoslavia, South Africa, Myanmar, Uyghurs, Hong Kong… all the unprovoked, oppressive, genocidal, colonization, I don’t remember any CODEPINK/campus protests like this. I remember talk of genocide in some/many of the discussions, but not from progressive, leftist CODEPINK types. Matter of fact, I remember a bunch of protests over a check-forging drug addict and being told “Now is not the right time.”
Almost like they don’t actually care about black people or genocide or colonization or Muslims/Islam or even defunding anything… they only care about defending violent murders and rapists and destabilizing and destroying nations and communities they don’t like.
Well, there aren't significant quantities of Jews in those places, so there's no point in advocating for their deaths there either, to these folks.
All radicals and socialists are pro-war, at least in the sense that they support large scale violence as a means to overthrow the establishment and impose their ideological regime.
“Protesters chanted... “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” only steps from the White House... They chanted “Hezbollah, Hezbollah, kill another Zionist now.”
Those Democrats are just overly passionate and got carried away, but you know what the real antisemitic threat is in America?
When Patriot Front (Who totally aren't masked FBI) have a march.
Don't you know that in 21st century American threats are rated by a committee of purple-haired baristas with BAs in grievance studies, coordinated through MSNBC with sponsorship from the Soros Foundation?
Actually the ratings are done by the Souther Poverty Law Center, which is neither southern or poor. They will declare Joe Biden to be a Nazi of you give them enough money.
And yet they'd be so upset if they got what they're asking for. I don't think they understand that if they try to throw their "Intifada Revolution", sane people are going to fight back.
How much does Hasbara pay you?
How many loads do you take up your ass daily?
Much more relevant question.
"Afghanistan was America's longest and least popular war,..."
It became the "least popular" because of the drawn-out nation building phase. The part about retribution on the regime that harbored Al-Qaeda was rather popular. The problem was much of the "captive population" of Afghanistan was rather into tyranny. This is a problem throughout much of the Muslim Middle East, they may not be happy with their current tyranny, but they are looking to replace it with a tyranny more to their liking of their group.
The forlorn hope that all the "untenable" situations will resolve, much less resolve well, if only the USA was not the Western hegemon is not a plan.
It's only the 'least popular' because people have the attention span of a gnat. Vietnam was way less popular both from it's start and overall, but the people who were shipped over there are outnumbered by the people who were born way after it ended.
Also, yes, it was extremely popular on both sides of the aisle when we were going to go over there are fuck them up and turn them into a democracy. Eventually it was learned that those goals were never going to happen, but of course Obama was happy to continue George's war and then hand it over to Trump who actually tried to end it.
Of course, Biden will be remembered for it's ending and one wonder's how favorably that will be written into history books by Democrats in academia. In some fairness, withdrawing from Afghanistan was never going to go well but one does wonder if it could have been botched any worse.
What If the U.S. Cuts Off Aid to Everyone?
What if we stopped playing world police and king-maker? What if we overtly rejected global visions and one-world governance? What if we gave up trying to manage the affairs of people and institutions, both at home and abroad?
Crazy, right?
Sure, but nobody in power is talking about doing that.
If this were some suddenly (and nigh heart-stoppingly shocking) principled stance on the part of Congress to declare that they'd realized they'd been wrong all of these years, and countries were going to need to stand on their own feet, that'd be great.
But this isn't that. This isn't even close to that.
True. But I can dream.
Sure, but nobody in power is talking about doing that.
Given Reason, I’m pretty confident in the statement, ‘Virtually nobody out of power… at zero risk of being anywhere near any sort of real power… is talking about that.’
This is, sadly, also accurate. :-/
Well, personally I imagine that wouldn't go over well because all those nations we support via international welfare would need to actually figure out how to sustain their own welfare states off a whole hell of a lot less money.
Their own tax payers love the wealth redistribution, but it has to come from somewhere and their own tax base sure isn't willing to foot the bill.
Sure, but I don’t care about them.
Biden (D) keeps thinking that giving aid, giving weapons, drone striking, color revolutions, threats, and other unAmerican activities are appropriate components of US foreign policy where stopping the flow is not too likely with him at the helm.
The realization that none of that is affordable may eventually dawn on whoever is in the White House. An historical analogy might be Rome leaving Britain.
I was going to say that Americans would not abide the same actions foreign governments take against their own people and immediate neighbors, that we fund, if our own government took those actions against us at home. But I realized I might be wrong.
The summer of love. Covid lockdowns, vaxxing, and restrictions. J6ers. Foreign nationals pouring over the southern border.
Now I need a drink. But I don't want to turn into Sarc, so maybe a bike ride.
Trump made noises about doing that, and see how well that worked out for him?
So, no, no politician is going to go for that. It would certainly hurt their portfolios, and that's the most important thing for them to protect.
I suspect the first politician to suggest that would be suicided by the CIA.
"If Israel will not change their policy of not allowing Hamas to rape, kidnap, and murder their citizens, and to ultimately allow Hamas to destroy them, we will have no choice but to cut off our support for Israel," continued Sanders.
Cutting off American "support" would be the best thing ever for Israel. Without the State Department deliberately hamstringing them every chance they get, they could have settled things with the Arabs back in the sixties.
But a peaceful and stable Middle East hasn't been in the MICs and CIAs interests ever.
I agree, but I just like pointing out what Sanders actually means. He certainly isn't saying what he's saying because he wants less American control over Israeli actions.
Yes, I was just making comment to what you posted, rather than disagreeing with your motive for posting it.
Yeah, I figured, I just... had to make more words happen.
Text is hard. 😀
Saudi Arabia is not renewing the 50-year Petrodollar agreement & it expires on June 9, 2024.
https://t.me/LauraAbolichannel
Called it.
Well, oil be damned.
ISWYDT.
Well... that's going to truly suck.
I better buy a scooter or some shit.
Yeah, people do not realize how fucked this makes the US.
Good job Biden.
This is going to ruin the US government's ability to offshore inflation.
Not good for the US. Very good for the BRICs, the Euro and the Yen.
Biden is the anti-Midas. Instead of gold, everything he touches turns to shit.
And yet, not even a sort that can be safely used for fertilizer.
No such article exists at your link.
You have to shovel through a lot of antivaxx bullshit to find it, but there's a link to a Xitter post there. It wasn't a "50-year agreement" in the sense that was its term, but it was a 5-year agreement which had been renewed nine times before being allowed to expire on 9 June 2024. Saudi Arabia is now free to price oil in currencies other than the USD. Just in time to capitalize on the end of the petroleum era, I suppose.
Whatever market reaction would have happened earlier this week.
The word will be a better place without bernie sanders.
Nobody needs 23 kinds of socialism?
Nobody needs 23 different socialists.
For DC cocktail parties, Reason absolutely needs 23 social lists.
What we need is bigger helicopters.
As Ron Paul once explained, foreign aid takes money from poor people in rich countries and gives it to rich people in poor countries.
The fed takes money from poor people in the us and gives it to rich people who hat the US, like vanguard, black rock, all ngos
Why else have a central bank?
Polling Data Election Prediction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV6BRI2Sd7o
Yeah, Trump confirmed for assassination. Nothing else seems to work and there's no way that the ruling class will ever let 2016 happen again.
Either that, or a triple-plus hair-on-fire national emergency that will foster national panic (guided by our Official Media) and force Biden to invoke Super Emergency Powers and suspend the election.
My bet is a fake pandemic caused by a deliberate release blamed on MAGA subversives. Lockdown 2.0 and national gun confiscation.
I'm hoping for "Bird Flu" lockdowns, because WWIII with a nuclear Russia is scarier.
I hate to get all Rogue Nation/Dr. Manhattan, but the lessons learned from a nuclear conflict with Russia would be more permanent. "Bird Flu" is just going to be another stepping stone, another kick of the can, to something worse further on down the road.
I understand and don't disagree with the motivation to wish for Bird Flu but, at the same time, "If there must be trouble...".
At least a WWIII with a Nuclear Russia will be over very quickly for me. No point in worrying about it, if it happens, I'll be gone before I even know it has started.
Rogue NationFallout (duh)... "There cannot be peace without first a great suffering. There greater the suffering, the greater the peace."If the Saudi’s really do step away from the petrodollar, that’ll be enough for them to declare an emergency.
1. The US should stop funding isreal
2. If the isralies killed every palistienian animal the world would be a better place
I know some nice "Palestinians". It's the Hamas psychopaths and the PA kleptocrats that are the problem.
Palestinian-Christian citizens of Israel have the highest educational attainment and income of all demographics in the country.
Plus millions of loyal Israeli-Arabs were called "Palestinians" under the British Mandate.
Racist much?
Trashman Returns: North Korean "Poop" Balloons Go Southbound Again
Apparently in response to anti-Pyongyang activists dropping propaganda leaflets over the DPRK - reportedly criticising leader Kim Jong Un - North Korea has responded on Saturday with yet more trash balloons.
Seoul's military issued a public message to inform people not to touch or go near the balloons. Hundreds were flown into South Korea last week in waves, while balloons with USB drives containing K-Pop music went the other way.
Last year, a 2020 law that criminalised the sending of anti-Pyongyang propaganda was struck down - determining it as an undue limitation on free speech. Kim Jong Un's sister mocked their neighbours, calling the trash "freedom of expression."
This is ballooning out of control
Just a bunch of hot air.
Inflation is rising!
while balloons with USB drives containing K-Pop music went the other way.
Cute, but does anyone actually think North Korean's would know what to do with a USB stick?
Even if they knew what to do with one, what exactly would they plug it into to play it?
Chickens don't have USB slots?
Oh wait. North Koreans probably don't have chickens, either.
(This attempt at humor started at "cow" and rapidly ran down the list of barnyard finds to "chicken" and I'm still not sure I've gone far enough. "Cabbages"?)
Damn, now I'm just left feeling bad for North Koreans again.
They'd probably eat them.
Even supporters of Israel (like myself) are hard-pressed to argue the crux of this argument. Israel is a wealthy country, with an advanced economy and sophisticated military. If they want to wage war on their terrorist enemies - Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran - then they should be able to do so without American-made bombs.
I'm asking this because I have no idea & looking for a answer. No sarcasm on my part.
Do we just give Israel munitions or do they buy them from USA? Or is it just straight cash then they go and buy them? (I guess I could ask the same questions about Ukraine or any other countries we give aid to.)
In the Ukraine we give the munitions and straight cash. Not sure about Isreal.
I don't know what restrictions the US puts on the aid to Israel. Generally the aid requires purchasing US weapon systems. That's why you see Third World Dictators arming their goons with M-16 rifles. However that doesn't seem to be the case since Israeli troops use their own designs of rifle. I don't know that they have a lot of US leftover gear there so I suspect the aid goes I to their home grown weapon building companies. But I am not sure.
Why without American-made bombs?
We should be more than free to sell them anything they need.
Sell.
Once they buy it, it is not our problem.
Israel is a wealthy country so why are we still giving them aid? Palestine could really use that aid money.
Yup, rockets aren't cheap.
You mean Hamas could use that aid money don’t you? I bet the peoples of Palestine are getting bupkis. Then again, Palatine/Hamas is the same thing.
Palestine could take delivery of the ordnance we sent over, at several thousand fps. We should deliver some to a certain hotel in Qatar as well.
We should deliver some to a certain hotel in Qatar as well.
That's probably the more critical location, honestly.
Palestine gets the most aid per capita. Fuck them.
We have a nice, new pier their to deliver it all. LGB!!!
Want about Iran? We’ve only given them billions since the people who prop up Biden took charge. They need more!
Austrian nationalists leading EU election poll projections
Projections put Austria's firm nationalist Freedom Party (FPÖ) ahead in the country's election for the European Parliament on 27%, just ahead of the Conservative Austrian People's Party (OVP) on 23.5% and the Social Democrats (SPÖ) on 23%.
The forecast is based on surveys of 3,600 people carried out in the past week for national broadcaster ORF, Puls 24 TV and news agency APA, with a 2.5% margin of error.
Official results from across the EU are expected to start coming in around 23:00 GMT Sunday evening.
Make Austria Great Again? Other EU nations seeing their citizens rejecting unipolar globohomo parties and shift inward
I’m happy to see globohomo’s collapse in popular support, but like in the US their bureaucracies are completely captured and will require serious housekeeping.
The Milei path is the only way forward.
This is really the larger problem.
And even if the bureaucracies themselves magically disappeared, the regulations would still remain. And I'm not sure Americans have enough gumption left to just go build something without a permit, even if the agency that would issue the permit no longer exists, and there's no one left to enforce it.
*sigh*
OK, yeah, I'm pretty damned blackpilled this weekend, apparently. :-/
"Make Istanbul Constantinople Again!"
Nobody's business but the Turks'.
The Byzantine Greeks beg to differ.
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam.
1. People are really bad at estimating the net benefit of foreign economic and military aid and they're just as bad at estimating the size of foreign aid to begin with. According to a poll I read a couple years ago, people guesstimated that foreign aid must be some 25% of the federal budget and the majority opined that it should be way less, maybe 10 percent or so. Yet in reality, foreign aid is less than 1% of the federal budget, which is to say: peanuts. For this reason alone I would find it difficult to go against that peanut, as oppose to going against the gigantic peanut butter jar that is social security. At least as long as we have priorities or something. I'd much sooner argue to nuke the SSA from orbit and replace it with something far more efficient e.g. with a Central Provident Fund (CPF) a la Singapore, along with a Citizen's Dividend scheme financed by LVT i.e. taxes on economic rent and royalties derived from natural resources extraction (just like Alaska).
2. But back to the net benefit of foreign aid: I'm pretty sure that Israel is the best investment in that respect, because I'm pretty sure that each dollar spent on them has the largest ROI, especially compared to the alms given to poor countries. Yes, Israel is rich and that's a good thing for us too. Israel is also smart, efficient and innovative, which is also good for us too, because it benefits us too.
3. What many people don't realize (in addition to all the above) is that the aid going to Israel, at least in the past few decades, could have only be spent on US military equipment, some 99% of it. In other words, that "aid" is basically a discount, a credit line that Israel receives in exchange for doing business with us. The aid (at least prior to 10/7, I'm not sure about the new balance) was less than 1% of the Israeli GDP, although it was a significant portion if we compare it to the Israeli military budget (which ofc ballooned because of the current war).
4. Now this is not to say that the aid must go on forever, or that it should be increased, or that the article was wrong about its main position. At least the article is honest in claiming that it doesn't give a single flying F about influencing the ME. But it must be mentioned that this was factored into the whole damn thing, just as it is an important part of the agreement concerning the Iron Dome. I mean... just think about it. Obama et al didn't want the so called Palestinians, especially the blood-thirsty Gazans to disappear. So they sold Israel the idea that they can create a rather impenetrable barrier to have a defense against Hamas attacks. It largely worked, for a long time. But because of that, one must understand that the Iron Dome defended Gazans even more than it defended Israel. Because with Iron Dome, Israel didn't have a good enough reason (or so the mainstream believed) to glass the whole strip. So anyone from the Left complaining about the Iron Dome money or the aid in general for Israel don't realize that they would only harm the so called Palis. Personally, I believe this is one of the best, if not the best reason to stop aiding Israel.
5. And it would be a good thing for Israel too. I have read many Israeli opinion pieces and comments on the subject, and they too realize that:
a, over-reliance on the US is a bad thing, especially if the US feds are controlled by Team Blue, especially from a national security perspective
b, the Israeli economy would benefit vastly by increasing their domestic military production even further
c, all the other strings would be cut, which means the US/Dems would stop having any influence on Israeli domestic politics
So I'm sure that apart from the ever shrinking Israeli Left, all would be glad to ditch the whole US aid handcuff thingy.
6. And yet, I must add that the timing of that article is highly questionable. Israel is a US ally, in the middle of a multi-front war, which is an existential threat to Israel. I can appreciate the sentiment from both directions, from Israelis and from US libertarians (but obviously not from US far-leftist freaks) alike, but it would be much less problematic to talk about this AFTER the war against Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis is over. It would be much less problematic to phrase the whole thing as a "renegotiation" rather than the "cut the whole thing" way, even if it would benefit both sides eventually.
You're not counting military commitments and spending as foreign aid.
Accurate. A significant portion of the US Military budget could be counted as "foreign aid", because by us having a the largest military on the planet by rather a lot, it frees them up to not have as large of one, and thence to spend the money they save thereby on "social programs".
We need to cut the cord with NATO. Let Europe defend themselves.
"We need to cut the cord with NATO. Let Europe defend themselves."
Europe's biggest threat to their security is the massive influx of refugees from North Africa and the Middle East, as a result of their immoral and ill conceived military adventures there. Europe increasing their military budget - more fighters, bombers and tanks, will do nothing to address this threat, no matter what the neocons are telling you.
"because I’m pretty sure that each dollar spent on them has the largest ROI,"
There's an ROI on the billions 'invested' in Israel? Are you making the argument for even more money to be 'invested' in Israel, for an even greater ROI?
"So they sold Israel the idea that they can create a rather impenetrable barrier to have a defense against Hamas attacks."
The Hamas rocket attacks are almost entirely symbolic, though they may be responsible and explain the costly and demoralizing evacuation of tens of thousands of Israelis who used to live in the 'Gaza envelope' - the the area of Israel surrounding Gaza. The attacks by the Party of God from Lebanon are another kettle of fish. The Lebanese have demonstrated the ability to destroy Iron Dome batteries and strike at will. Israeli cities, desalination, nuclear, power generating plants, and transportation and military infrastructure are all vulnerable, and only Lebanese self restraint has kept them safe. It goes without saying that whatever the Lebanese can do, the Iranians can do better. Your hand wringing over the dangers of Hamas rockets is quaint and misdirected. The irony is that Israel's weapons, doubtless developed in part or in whole by US funding, are self defeating:
"Some pro-Iranian netizens, opposed to Israel, expressed their jubilation by emphasizing the capability of Iranian weapons — from “shared to Almas.” The Almas is believed to be an Iranian-made copy of Israel’s Spike anti-tank loitering weapon, produced by Rafael.
As per claims, the missile has been created by reverse engineering the Spike missiles that Hezbollah captured during the 2006 war with Israel and then brought back to Iran for use. Hezbollah is alleged to be supplied by Iran and has been using a host of Iranian weapons to attack Israel since October last year."
"And it [cutting off aid] would be a good thing for Israel too."
Israel is not obliged to accept any aid from the US or anywhere else. If Israel chose, they could decline to accept, perhaps suggesting US legislators find other ways to spend taxpayer dollars.
"but it would be much less problematic to talk about this AFTER the war against Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis is over."
Isn't this ultimately a war between Israel and Iran? Wouldn't the defeat of Iran cost the US taxpayer even more than what they are currently contributing? Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis are, after all, mere militias without an air force or navy. Iran has it all, plus the capability of easily bringing the entire world economy to a stand still by shutting off the oil supply at their Hormuz choke point.
1. Just because there are bigger budget items that should be slashed doesn’t mean the smaller unnecessary budget items should be retained. Someone facing foreclosure due to a lack of funds should find more affordable housing as well as cut out smokes, their drinky-drinks, scratch-offs, Netflix, and dinner at Mickey Ds.
2. Coercing money from US taxpayers to play Santa elsewhere is not an investment for those taxpayers.
3. If only Israel had more broken windows that US tax subsidized glazers could repair…
4. I think we agree the US govt should stop funding and meddling in the ME.
5. Let the locals figure out their local issues.
6. The US govt should never give foreign aid to anyone ever. Pay off the debt, then sunset income taxes, allowing the citizens to send the money they earned to destinations of their choice including to nowhere. The time to stop the funding is yesterday.
Thank you for providing the RT perspective, as usual.
You mean the Libertarian perspective.
Reason editors used to be regular guests on RT TV back when reason editors still were something that resembled "libertarian"
"6. The US govt should never give foreign aid to anyone ever."
I don't think the US government is running the show here. That would be the oligarchs, or 'deep state' to you. They are joined at the hip with the oligarchs of Israel in all things regarding money and ideology.
I saw a surprising example of this. MSNBC is almost daily vilified as an Islamist or Communist mouth piece and propaganda outfit."
"Earth-based Human Skeptic 5 hours ago
Don’t you know that in 21st century American threats are rated by a committee of purple-haired baristas with BAs in grievance studies, coordinated through MSNBC with sponsorship from the Soros Foundation?"
Yet the reality is that MSNBC is no different from the line taken by the Israeli government or Biden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y554wYAhIog&t=605s
It shows that slavish devotion to empire and imperial aspirations goes way beyond the US government and is infecting the entire ruling class of both countries, the corporate world and their stooges.
Macron Finis
Marine Le Pen’s anti-immigration nationalist party has just beat Emmanuel Macron’s party in the French EU Elections, winning 32% of the vote.
Nationalist parties in Germany (AfD) and Austria (FPÖ) expected to also make gains. The Belgian PM just resigned following the electoral defeat of his party.
- Bellum Acta
Another July Crisis unfolding as a ruling coalition in the EU parliament will be difficult to establish.
Time for a national/continental crisis or three.
I love it. Israel rescues some of their hostages, and the very next day Reason is here trying to snub them.
Amazing. Incredible. You're going to hell.
Going to New Jersey? Really? Are you paying for those trips?
Genocide or welfare state. One or the other.
Which one is self-induced?
Aren't they both? The genocide is thanks to Israel's absurd policy of funding and encouraging Hamas, even allowing them free rein to govern Gaza, and what's even more unbelievable, despite warnings, to allow Hamas to breach a billion dollar security fence and attack surrounding towns and military bases. The welfare state - free health and education for everyone - is down to Israel's parliament. And they're both thanks to the generosity of the US tax payer.
Israel has nukes and likely would be more than willing to use them if their survival were ever at stake.
Half of Israel hold foreign passports and would be more than willing to use them if their survival were ever at stake.
What If the U.S. Cuts Off Aid to Israel?
Well. I suspect my ass would hurt from all of the flying monkeys that would pour out because I am am fairly sure those monkeys would fly out if the US ever cut off Israel.
This is an add argument.
If one of our states was hit by a massive earthquake and Tsunami, should we refuse aid from other nations, on the grounds that it would put us beholden to their interests? The outside world put more tariff and restrictions on our products than we put on their imports. Such imbalance has never concerned libertarians.
What alliance is pure in terms of motives? What alliance doesn't involves at least one side giving free stuff to others to curry favor? We've dealt with Russia as frenemy because they gave us air space and intel on the ME region. Now, most of that is out the window. Now imagine losing Israel as intel source / ally in that region, either due to them losing the war or acting in retaliation. The amount of money we would have to spend is astronomical.
Most Americans recognize that Israel is a democracy surrounded by darkness. They're targeted by barbarians daily. If Korea was routinely attacked by the north, we'd give them more aid than we're giving now. Any of these regions being overran will kill the American economy, especially if China gets involved.
You want to cut off aid to the middle east in general? Fine, then we also close our borders to the most hostile regions there. We're not playing this game where we accept billions of refugees in wars we don't even in participate in. That cost incurred by that will offset whatever money we saved on foreign aid in literally seconds. You can't have it both ways.
"The amount of money we would have to spend is astronomical."
As long as we persuade Mexico to pay for it, what's the problem?
"What alliance is pure in terms of motives? "
And what was our motive in freeing Jonathan Pollard?
"We’re not playing this game where we accept billions of refugees in wars we don’t even in participate in. "
We let Europe play that game for us. Only it's millions rather than billions.
I don't know, XM, I've never such apologetics for empire building and neocon ideology for quite a while. You fit in exactly with what Biden and MSNBC take such pains to tell us.
Israel gets free rein and we get to keep our money?
I can live with this.
No, the United States should not be sending financial aid to Israel. No, Chuck Schumer doesn’t know any more about how to end the cycle of violence in the Middle East than anyone else does (which is near zero), and no, we should not be any less skeptical about trying to “influence” Middle East affairs vis a vis Israel than we should be about American interventionism anywhere else in the world. See? You didn’t need a thousand words to say that, Matt.
The whole Middle East is a snake-pit of international politics on a useless mound of sand that has only meant decline and disaster to all that have tried to "rule" it.
The US should totally withdraw from any aid or entanglement with the area assume an attitude of benign non-interference. Even our "alliance" with Türkiye is questionable.
Oh, and anti-zionism is NOT antisemitism.