The Mirage of China's I.P. Theft
As allegations of intellectual property theft swirl, a deeper look reveals a tale of phony numbers and twisted data.

Republican China hawks have a problem. They're eager to sell us on the notion that China is, as old GOP hand Newt Gingrich puts it, "the greatest threat to a free America that we have faced in our lifetime." Gingrich pins China's ascendancy on its "totalitarian system, extraordinary organization, and immense population," brushing aside the economic liberalization and market reforms initiated by former leader Deng Xiaoping—which ushered China out of Maoist isolation and into the global market—as mere smoke and mirrors, a "40-year-long propaganda campaign" masking the "real China."
This presents a quandary for the hawks. If they argue that China's meteoric rise is indeed the fruit of its "totalitarian system and extraordinary organization," does that mean they'll have to eat their words on the virtues of free enterprise and stop scoffing at socialist economies? Could it be that China has cracked the code on making a centrally planned economy thrive, a feat unseen elsewhere?
Fortunately for the Republican hawks, a more politically palatable theory has taken root: China's ascent to becoming the world's second-largest economy and a tech behemoth wasn't a result of economic reforms or strategic planning but rather stealing.
Behind the Numbers
In a landscape where political rhetoric often blurs reality, the narrative spun by America First Republicans and echoed by institutions from the FBI to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) portrays China's remarkable growth as the grand larceny of intellectual property (I.P.). Claims that China has siphoned off $200 billion to $600 billion annually in I.P. have found a home in numerous reports, with some hawkish voices now inflating that estimate to trillions.
These reports, echoed through the media and in the halls of Congress, have one goal, perfectly captured by Trump-era Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer. "My objective was to convince people that China is a problem, an existential threat to the U.S.," Lighthizer told The Wall Street Journal. "I think we convinced people."
Indeed they did. A recent Gallup poll reported that 50 percent of Americans now view China as America's "greatest enemy"—four times as many as in 2018. (Russia took second place, despite its war with Ukraine.)
The campaign to make Americans hate and envy China has been so successful that American media and politicians now openly urge us to prepare for war with China. Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) has claimed that "China is waging a thousand-year war against the United States." Washington Times foreign policy correspondent Bill Gertz recently posted on X that China clearly sees war with the United States as "inevitable." And in 2023, four-star Air Force general and head of Air Mobility Command Mike Minihan sent a memo to the officers he commands predicting that in two years, the U.S. will be at war with China. "I hope I am wrong," Minihan's memo read. "My gut tells me we will fight in 2025."
Beneath this crescendo of warnings, however, lie some questionable assertions. Central to the argument are two reports, one by the U.S. International Trade Commission (USITC) and another by the OECD, which have become the linchpins of the fearmongering campaign against China. A closer examination reveals that these reports, and the staggering figures they tout, are little more than sloppy guesswork grounded in speculative modeling rather than solid evidence.
The USITC study, China: Effects of Intellectual Property Infringement and Indigenous Innovation Policies on the U.S. Economy, was published in 2011. The OECD study, Trade in Counterfeit and Pirated Goods, wasfirst issued in 2008 and updated in 2016. Nearly every other report on the theme ultimately cites these two studies.
The OECD's bold assertion that China's I.P. theft tallied up to a whopping $200 billion to $600 billion annually throughout the 2010s hinges on a dubious concoction known as the General Trade-Related Index of Counterfeiting (GTRIC) for products. This algorithm supposedly crunches customs data to gauge the global counterfeit trade, attributing a significant chunk of it to China.
Delve into the mechanics of the GTRIC and you'll find it operates on a blend of educated guesses and less educated assumptions. Modelers assign two "propensities": the propensity of a given country to export counterfeits, and the propensity for certain product types—like sneakers or watches—to be counterfeited. Comparing these figures with data on all international trade, the model generates estimates of the total volume of counterfeit goods from various source nations.
The critical moment in the model's calculations, and the place where the methodology raises eyebrows, is the determination of a "fixed point"—essentially, a guess at what percentage of goods in a specific category are fake. Depending on which number you pull out of the hat, the scale of counterfeiting can swing wildly from mere billions to an eye-watering trillion dollars annually. Therefore, determining the most accurate fixed point to use is vital for the results of the study to be trustworthy.
So how did the OECD wizards arrive at their fixed point? They took a stab in the dark. Initially setting their sights on a 20 percent figure for "counterfeit or pirated apparel, leather articles, and tobacco products exported from Asian economies," they dialed it back to 5 percent after deciding 20 percent "appeared excessive." Noting that the amount "could be higher" and needing to establish a "credible ceiling" for counterfeit trade, they picked 10 percent as their high fixed point.
This manifestly arbitrary methodology was then glorified in various reports as "rigorous." Further guesswork was needed to factor in how much counterfeit merchandise customs actually seize—a variable that drastically swings the estimated total of counterfeit trade from less than $40 billion to over $200 billion.
Ultimately, the OECD planted its flag on a $200 billion estimate for 2005's counterfeit trade, with the caveat that it could be much more. Thus, a figure of legend was born.
Fast forward to 2016, when the OECD unveiled a headline-grabbing figure: "In 2013, international trade in [counterfeit] products represented up to 2.5 percent of world trade, or as much as USD $461 billion. This is the equivalent of the GDP of Austria, or the combined GDP of Ireland and the Czech Republic."
This 2.5 percent figure has since become a talisman for anyone keen to substantiate claims of rampant I.P. theft by China, despite the foundation of these claims being as solid as quicksand.
Even with all of this guesswork at play in the OECD reports, the 2011 USITC report makes them look like high scholarship. Focusing on I.P.-intensive U.S. firms operating in China in 2009, the report claims these firms "reported losses of approximately $48.2 billion in sales, royalties, or license fees" due to I.P. infringement. Yet a closer look reveals the range of estimated losses, stretching from $14.2 billion to $90.5 billion, was based not on direct reports from companies but on third-party guesstimates from industry associations. Essentially, these firms were parroting back guesses fed to them by industry groups with a vested interest in painting the grimmest picture possible to grab government attention. The claim that the oft-cited USITC report was based on accounts by victim companies is a fraud.
We're Talking About Sneakers
But the plot thickens—or rather, the truth thins out. Though these two reports are wielded in accusations that China's tech ascendancy is owed to stolen I.P., neither has anything to do with high tech. The "I.P." allegedly stolen mostly consists of trademarks affixed to faux high-fashion sneakers (a perennial leader), watches, handbags, and other accessories, or copyrights on pirated music. Most shipments intercepted are in retail quantities, often fewer than 10 items. Most come by mail.
Somewhere in China, Mom and Pop are ripping off Rolex, Louis Vuitton, and probably Taylor Swift. They may have some bad karma coming their way, but they are not the reason China is rich.
Yet that is what we are meant to believe. Nearly every commentary on the subject promotes itself as evidence that China stole its way to technological prowess and then cites these irrelevant numbers as the sole quantitative evidence. Again and again, we are told "China steals hundreds of billions or trillions in intellectual property," with no mention that we're talking about sneakers.
Without these phony numbers, the China hawks' fearmongering campaign would lose its legs. No reporter would write this story without such eye-catching numbers to cite.
Diving deeper into the quagmire, a collaboration between PricewaterhouseCoopers and the Center for Responsible Enterprise and Trade used "several proxy measures" to conclude "that trade secret theft could be estimated to be between 1% and 3% of [U.S.] GDP"—yet another exercise in creative estimation.
These audacious leaps in logic are how we came to believe that China stole its way to becoming an economic and technological powerhouse.
If It Were Any Other Country
These flawed findings keep company with claims that China's engagement with "open-source intelligence" is espionage rather than what it genuinely represents: a commendable dive into the world's collective knowledge pool.
The book Chinese Industrial Espionage: Technology Acquisition and Military Modernisation by William C. Hannas, James Mulvenon, and Anna B. Puglisi sheds light on this extensive journey, tracing its roots back to Mao Zedong's era. By the mid-20th century, China had already begun assembling an impressive repository of global scientific and technological knowledge—including 11,000 science and technology periodicals, half a million published research reports, more than 5 million patents, and more than 200,000 industry standards—a practice that has expanded over the decades to provide invaluable resources to millions.
Had it been undertaken by some obscure, impoverished nation, this effort would likely be hailed as an extraordinary leap toward enlightenment and development. After all, the West does not benefit from the rest of the world being poor and illiterate. It does benefit significantly when other nations adopt its technological standards and contribute to the global knowledge economy.
Despite these vast repositories of information, China's technological landscape under Mao remained largely barren. Little advancement was seen until economic reforms in the 1980s triggered a boom powered by the unleashing of market forces and entrepreneurial spirit.
It was freedom, not spying or stealing, that made China rich.
And yet, despite the open, almost academic nature of this endeavor, the hawks inevitably characterize the Chinese open-source effort as nefarious, pointing to "nontraditional" researchers, who may be employed by the Chinese security apparatus. No doubt these bureaucrats—like our own—gleefully report to their masters on their "intelligence yield." It's still just going to the library.
The final piece in the "we wuz robbed" argument is the claim that Chinese companies "steal" the I.P. of their American partners in joint ventures. China's prowess at the negotiation table is undeniable, and it wields its bargaining power aggressively to trade access to Chinese markets for learning. Yet the American companies that claim to be victims enter into these agreements freely and rarely come out net losers. These U.S. businesses have raked in trillions in sales and pocketed hefty profits—a testament to their ability to navigate the competitive landscape.
The hawks vastly overestimate the value of any I.P. that can actually be stolen. Clueless about the technologies that most concern them, the hawks fixate on the blueprints without appreciating the craftsmanship required to bring them to life. After all, the secrets of technological innovation aren't hidden. The recipes for making microchips have been available in university libraries for almost 70 years, but building them takes far more than just following instructions.
The Innovation Curveball
At the heart of technological breakthroughs is the learning curve, a phenomenon as influential as it is elusive. It illustrates how, with each doubling of accumulated unit volume, costs plummet by 20 percent to 30 percent. The learning curve summarizes economic progress in the industrial era. Even Moore's law, the doubling of transistors on a microchip every two years, is the curve at work. It looks "special" only because unit volume doubled and redoubled so rapidly. Yet the essence of this curve—the tacit knowledge and hands-on experience that truly drive innovation—remains a captivating mystery.
This leads us to a crucial realization: The true driver behind technological advancement isn't theft or coercion but a natural and admirable process of discovery and learning.
When American companies set up shop in China, they're not just outsourcing labor—they're exporting a wealth of knowledge far beyond what any textbook or lecture could offer. Viewing this exchange as theft oversimplifies the complexities of knowledge transfer and undervalues the process of learning. Only if you think knowledge should be locked up and workers are your property can learning be seen as stealing.
Despite China's vast open-source effort reaping the rewards in tech, innovation proved challenging long after Deng's economic reforms. Designing and manufacturing a microchip crammed with billions of transistors ranks among the industrial world's most daunting tasks. Sure, you might get a head start from scholarly articles, but the real breakthroughs come from hands-on, often costly, experimentation.
The journey of Morris Chang, the ex–Texas Instruments executive who established Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) and transformed it from a modest operation into a semiconductor behemoth, exemplifies the real essence of innovation: It's not just about knowing the recipe but mastering the art of creation through practice and adaptation. TSMC's beginnings were humble, focusing on basic, nearly outdated tech. It was through embracing the learning curve that TSMC evolved into a semiconductor titan. Chang's story isn't just about business strategy; it's a testament to the transformative power of learning by doing.
In the real world, that's how it's done. The path to technological leadership is paved with learning and experimentation, not the mere acquisition of existing knowledge. This is how progress is made—not through appropriation or coercion, but through the diligent application of learning and the relentless pursuit of improvement.
The Two Chinas
Sure, Beijing has its hands in the espionage cookie jar, tapping into its sprawling security network to swipe a secret treat when it can. Case in point: In March of this year, a federal grand jury indicted Chinese national Linwei Ding, charging him with four counts of theft of trade secrets in connection with an alleged plan to steal proprietary information related to artificial intelligence from Google, aiming to kick-start his own AI venture back home.
But the real bone of contention isn't about occasional theft. Critics of China argue that the nation's economic boom and tech triumphs are largely built on these underhanded tactics. They paint a picture of modern China as merely a glossy cover over the same old Maoist playbook, suggesting the U.S. brace for imminent war.
Yet nearly half a century since China began opening up, it's clear there's more to that story. Today's China is a land of contradictions: part authoritarian regime, part burgeoning hub of entrepreneurship and innovation. It's a place where the state's heavy hand and the dynamism of free enterprise are in constant tug of war.
These two visions of China have been struggling for dominance since the death of Mao. It remains to be seen if President Xi Jinping, the current leader of the autocrats, will drag China back into the shadows. One thing is clear: Denying the roots of China's explosive growth—a blend of learned American innovation and a push toward greater economic freedom—isn't the answer. Instead of gearing up for conflict, we should champion and nurture the entrepreneurial spirit that's as much a part of China's DNA as it is America's. That's the path to a richer, more collaborative future.
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The greatest threat to a free America is Washington DC. The Madison Ave boomer groomer system requires a boogeyman.
^THIS. People want to pretend China is totalitarian and the USA isn't. That is where the shady info is. It's simply not true anymore. The USA has been busy building a very powerful [Na]tional So[zi]alist regime.
When do we get our own Uighurs?
What do you suppose the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of unaccompanied minors that crossed the border that DHS has lost track of are up to?
Yeap.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/25/us/unaccompanied-migrant-child-workers-exploitation.html
Lying Jeffy’s wet dream.
https://x.com/saras76/status/1797326574431199254?t=WBA8MuyCYSd0K-PXxxZsWg&s=19
Pro Palestine protesters block Philly Pride Parade.
The confusion from the alphabet gang must be overwhelming
[Video]
Love it.
The revolution eats its children.
What students have gotten run over by tanks?
What a dishonest propaganda piece. It admits that China engages in espionage, but insists that the extent of I.P. theft is "sneakers". It doesn't even mention, much less rebut, specific examples of much higher-tech and larger-scale theft given at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_property_theft_by_China (high speed rail, wind power, the long campaign by the APT 41 group, networking gear from Huawei, filament LED light bulbs, and so on).
Yeah, the article seems to use IP theft and counterfeit products interchangeably when IP theft covers so much more than selling fake branded products.
For those who say China doesn't innovate, though, that's not entirely true. DJI is ridiculously far ahead of, and much larger than, every US drone company. And perhaps at least somewhat due to the FAA's to-this-day draconian drone regulations.
Only true for public drone sales.
Many of those reading this likely did not live through the explosion of innovation in the 1980's and following in Silicon Valley. This was largely due to companies playing fast and loose with IP -- hiring away technical staff from other companies to gain knowledge of their technology being one of the major paths for this.
This sharing of knowledge resulted in one of the largest expansions of technology and wealth we have ever seen in a short period of time.
If the Federal government could get its head out of its collective ass, it would drop the ridiculous embargoes and tariffs, and have a renaissance of innovation as those in the two countries (and others as well) freely share IP to the benefit of both (all).
The West STOLE gunpowder (and guns and rockets based on gunpowder), water clocks, water-wheels, compasses, and wheelbarrows from China... When will we finally PAY for all of this IP? Ye hypocritical THIEVES ye!!!!
Fuck you're retarded. China and the West have been exchanging tech since the Romans. China gave Rome finer silks, and Rome gave them glassware and crystal. China gave medieval Europe gunpowder and they gave China guns and ultrahigh-carbon steel.
That has zero to do with industrial espionage and IP theft today.
Just like with Section 230, you're always so appallingly ignorant of the subject you're pontificating on.
You mean to PervFectly say, then, that in ancient days, people were wise enough to engage in mutually beneficial trade and enlightened self-interest, and the common good of all peoples worldwide... But NOW we are FAR smarter than that, and so, instead, engage in short-sighted tribalistic self-righteousness?
IP theft and industrial espionage isn't "mutually beneficial trade", you fucking idiot.
People like him and sarc see themselves benefitting while ignoring those who assume losses from the thefts. Sarc and sqrsly are just thieves.
Did the grey box actually say that in between devouring chunks of its own shit?
Don’t know why no one has euthanized it yet. Do any of you guys have time to drop it off at the vet to be put down?
Hey Punk Boogers! HERE is your “fix”! Try shit, you might LIKE shit!!!
https://rentahitman.com/ … If’n ye check ’em out & buy their service, ye will be… A Shitman hiring a hitman!!!
If’n ye won’t help your own pathetic self, even when given a WIDE OPEN invitation, then WHY should ANYONE pity you? Punk Boogers, if your welfare check is too small to cover the hitman… You shitman you… Then take out a GoFundMe page already!!!
Hopefully the regular staff will get him back on his meds tomorrow.
China traded a lot of silk with the West, but the secret of silk production was a highly guarded trade secret. Remember Marco Polo (at least the Netflix version....)? His father was going to be executed for trying to smuggle out silk worms.
Not to mention rice and silk and tea, the really valuable stuff.
I’m just shocked Boehm didn’t write this.
Look, you shitty fatass Americans should be happy that your cheap materialistic crap keeps flowing.
/Corporatists
And shut up about inflation.
Makes you wonder who's paying the bills at Reason....
Not "Viewers like you"!
1) IT’S NOT HAPPENING
2) IT’S NOT HAPPENING ON A REGULAR BASIS
3) OKAY IT’S HAPPENING BUT IT’S NO BIG DEAL, WHY DO YOU CARE
4) IT’S HAPPENING AND HERE’S WHY IT’S A GOOD THING
I think we are getting a lot of 1-3 in the article and posts, and even some 4) from the more idiotic commenters
Fuck Joe Biden
- UFC 302 crowd chant the familiar appraisal of the current administration
Russian fighter Islam Makhachev defended his lightweight title with a dramatic fifth round choke of American Dustin Poirier. The crowd cheered when Makhachev was victorious.
Donald Trump turned up and was cheered by the crowd.
After the event, UFC head Dana White said that if the UFC were to be held in Russia, he would want to invite Vladimir Putin to it.
“Fuck Joe Biden” etc. …
Well yeah, sure, butt butt-fuck fat-ass Donnie Trumpie ass well! “Fair and BALANCED”, ya know!
#BeenTrumpledUnderfootForFarTooLong
“Fuck Joe Biden!”, they demand, over and over and over again! And that fat old geezer, Joe Biden… He is SUCH a BIG Meanie!!! He NEVER lets them fuck him!!! How greedy and selfish can he get, anyway?!?!?
Unread
Ignorant, uninformed, uneducated, and unwilling to learn!
And PROUD of shit to boot!!!
I for one can’t STAND the idea that a casual reader here of a libertarian news and commenting site would read the vapid and vile comments, and conclude, “Oh, so THAT’s what libertarians are all about!” No, it’s just that libertarians (and VERY few others) still believe in free speech, so the troglodytes come HERE, where their vile lies & vapid insults will NOT be taken down!
The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been feared and resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!
“Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .
In conclusion, troglodytes, thanks for helping me to prove my points!
Then they crucified Jesus, 'cause Jesus made them look bad! ALSO because Jesus made them look bad FOR THEIR STUPID, HIDE-BOUND TRIBALISM! "The parable of the Good Samaritan" was VERY pointed, because the Samaritans were of the WRONG tribe, in the eyes of "Good Jews" of the day.
Instead of KILLING Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., we’d be better off VOTING for these kinds of people! But we will NOT, ’cause they Hurt Our Precious Baby Feelings, by giving tribalism and do-gooder derogation the disrespect that they (we self-righteous tribalists) SOOO thoroughly deserve!
“and unwilling to learn!”
You’re one of the most ignorant fucking posters here. Half the time you have zero idea of what you’re babbling about. At best you copy and paste some midwit buffoonery you read at Salon.
There’s absolutely nothing that anyone can learn from you.
The best thing to do with you, is to spamflag your longer copypasted shitposts. So that they can’t ruin thread readability and to thwart your heckler’s veto.
That Legion of Groom member’s super power is the heckler’s veto.
Just muting him outright is an easier option.
You can look at "Show username" and be glad that you ain't reading it.
I watched the Roast of Tom Brady. They gave Dana White a chance to speak in the audience. He was calling out liberals
China's economy sunk like a rock during the 2008 recession. Their wealth status is entirely dependent on other nations. They're but a 'slave-labor' export camp with 4-Times more population than the USA.
There isn't anything there the USA needs to mimic and calling the USA 'protectionist' is a joke. The Union of States was created precisely to 'protect' the USA from foreign volatile slave-labor camps (influences). The International affairs government precisely.
And I could be mistaken but didn't Reason itself run the article about how China's manufacturing policy required the wavering of all I.P. claim on China manufactured goods?
Richard,
You are a retard. The chink steal ip all the time. And yes there is a huge cost to the US. Slit your wrists you evil sub human.
The US should sue China for releasing the Wuhan flu.
The hate-boner is STRONG with this one!!!
"Slit your wrists you evil sub human." Is that you or your hate-boner talking?
Conservaturds making friends, gathering votes, and influencing people by... PEDDLING KOOL-AID AND SUICIDE!!! How's it workin' for ya, servant and serpent of the Evil One?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
He’s truly, completely a necrophiliac,
His brain, squirming toad-like, is REALY, really whack!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
Ruin this troll's Heckler’s Veto. Use the spamflag, folks.
Do the gray boxes scale with the length of the screed? I do get a kick of seeing much much crap SQRLSY poops out.
The grey squirrel grey box is just two lines tall. Anything it posts becomes a mute point.
Chumpy-Chump AGREES with those who push suicide!!! Chumpy-Chump LOVES death and those who push shit! Let shit be known!!!
Chumpy-Chump and Spermy Daniels will sperminate their death-loving ideals across the land, far and wide! Sperminate them ALL; Sperminate ALL who fall short of the Ideals of Pervfected Trump-Worshit!
Chumpy-Chump and Spermy Daniels are Sperminators from the future, whom lust after sperminating us all!!! Beware!!!)
(Chumpy-Chump and Spermy Daniels are the Sperminators
Edit button mangled what I said!
Chumpy-Chump and Spermy Daniels are Sperminators from the future, who lust after sperminating us all!!! Beware!!!
Don't say that no one warned you!
Dude, make sure you tell the weekday staff that you missed all your meds since Friday.
The problem with that game is we paid for the Wuhan Flu.
Yes and the people that did that should also be executed
Reason is contradicting the narrative again. Know what that means. Attaaaaack!
Facts don't matter. Only True Tribal FEELZ matter! Get with the program; the dog-pile is nipping at your heels!
BARK-BARK-BARK, WOOF-WOOF-WOOF! Snarl, then BITE!
(I actually suspect that most of them can't actually bite. They're all snarled-up all-barks without any actual bite, except when practicing "displaced aggression", beating up their poodles, cats, and pet rabbits, 'cause their Insignificant Udder or work-boss or social worker or parole ossifer talked back to them. Why do I think this? Because they pick scapegoats to beat up and look down upon... Illegal sub-human immigrants and that them thar ferriner-type workers, who are ALL "slave laborers"!)
Ruin this troll’s Heckler’s Veto, and use the spamflag, folks.
In order to prove my spermy "boner fides", and to maybe (dare I DREAM?) be accepted among the "Cool Kids", I will now criticize Spermy Daniels, who BETRAYED The Donald!!!
Under the Trump-dump sail
Over the reefs of monkeyshines
Under the skies of stolen erections
North, north west, the sperms of Spermy Daniels
Under the Arctic lies
Over the seas of slutience
Hauling on frozen dopes
For all my days spermaining
But would Spermy Daniels be true?
All colors bleed to twat-red
Asleep on the ocean's bed
Drifting on empty sperms
For all my sperms remaining
But would sluts be true?
Why, sluts, why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Dark angels follow my germs
Over a godless sea of sperms
Mountains of endless falling,
For all my sperms remaining,
Twat would be true?
Sometimes I sperm your face,
The stars seem to lose their place
Why must I think of you, Spermy Daniels?
Why must I?
Why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Why would you want me to?
And what would it mean to say,
That, 'I spermed you in my fashion'?
Twat would be true?
Why should I?
Why should I cry for you?
Why should I sperm for you?
Ruin this troll’s Heckler’s Veto, and use the spamflag, folks.
So then I will SNOT be accepted among the “Cool Kids”?!?! Despite my heartily, dutifully, thoroughly despising Spermy Daniels, who BETRAYED The Sacred Donald?!?! I will now go and cry my eyeballs out!!!!
SHIT'S SNOT FAIR!!!!!! Why won't The Donald HELP me?!?!?!
Muted. And refuted.
They are pushing a false narrative you retarded fuck. One you agree with because you openly support theft because you benefit at the cost of others. Youre a fucking thief just like sqrsly. Theft is not free trade you leftist thieving fuck.
Youre too dumb to even realize you're also a victim. A lot of their aviation, defense, space, and nuclear technology is stolen US technology, funded by tax payers to hundreds of billions of dollars. They steal and you now spend MORE taxpayer money trying to stay ahead of them. But youre so retarded you support these costs and rail solely again tariffs which are much lower than the costs you support. Because youre fucking dumb.
You think sarc is a net tax payer?
Like in paying for the nets they use to subdue him at the public mental hospital?
Wait, how do you really feel?
(I feel the same, just yanking the chain)
Or, and walk with me here, don’t fall for blatantly obvious bullshit.
I can literally hop on a plane tomorrow to Shanghai and go to a factory where they’ve used ip theft (and some halfway decent reverse engineering) to make the machines that make the things I make. To the point that our state side suppliers make us sign agreements that we won’t even get parts for our machines made there because they’re worried about them figuring out and mass producing their profiles.
Lol. Imagine being Libertarian and spending 1000 words to defend open theft in a “free market.”
The theft is occurring. It occurs often.
IRAD and IP costs get subsumed as part of costs sold. Allowing open and rampant theft decreases future IRAD for a few reasons.
Market advantages for investing in IRAD disappear if you allow theft.
If you spend 100M to reduce costs by 200M, you have to still sell enough to recoup your investment. If someone steals the improvement and implements it, they can reduce the full cost of sales by 200M instead of the 100M delta for the person who developed the IP.
It also increases costs of goods sold as corporations now spend tens if billions on security systems, lawyers, and such. This again is added as a cost to the consumer.
Imagine calling yourself a libertarian and ignoring these costs and instead defending the rampant theft from countries like China. It is unbelievable. Just pure short sided thinking funded by Billionaires profiting from the theft of others.
This is from personal experience. Work is required to create and implement this IP. Just because it is on paper, it still leads to improvements of physical objects. We often spend more time on IRAD than in low rate production. Costing more than the materials into the goods. So reason can fuck off.
For fucks sake.
Richard Vigilante
Richard Vigilante, a former columnist for New York Newsday, was founding editor of the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal, credited by The New Yorker with creating “a new center” in New York politics. A former White House speechwriter, he has contributed to numerous national publications, including The New Republic and The Wall Street Journal.
He isn’t even a fucking libertarian. No wonder sqrsly and sarc love the guys idiotic views.
Just more open capture of LP and LP adjacent entities.
If you check out his Reason profile, he wrote one other article for the periodical - back in 1985.
"For fucks sake.
Richard Vigilante
Richard Vigilante, a former columnist for New York Newsday, was founding editor of the Manhattan Institute’s City Journal, credited by The New Yorker with creating “a new center” in New York politics. A former White House speechwriter, he has contributed to numerous national publications, including The New Republic and The Wall Street Journal.
He isn’t even a fucking libertarian. No wonder sqrsly and sarc love the guys idiotic views.
Just more open capture of LP and LP adjacent entities."
Hey, that's more than I got reading this.
NOW, it says (this is final paragraph and afterwards):
"These two visions of China have been struggling for dominance since the death of Mao. It remains to be seen if President Xi Jinping, the current leader of the autocrats, will drag China back into the shadows. One thing is clear: Denying the roots of China's explosive growth—a blend of learned American innovation and a push toward greater economic freedom—isn't the answer. Instead of gearing up for conflict, we should champion and nurture the entrepreneurial spirit that's as much a part of China's DNA as it is America's. That's the path to a richer, more collaborative future.
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NEXT: SWAT Goes to College
Richard Vigilante"
They edited out everything else.
I pulled from his own bio on a journalist biography site. Self submitted.
Will this turn into you quoting Chase Oliver’s website then people contesting that you are not representing him properly on the issues?
Oh, Reason decided to not include any info on why this guy was being published here? Seriously?
FFS.
Not all libertarians / individualists bow to the throne of intellectual "property".
Property is defined not as possession but control; that's how rental contracts work, for instance, giving tenants some temporary control, and why eviction bans were theft.
Once you sell something, you no longer have control. That's why CCRs, HOAs, and IP are invalid -- you can't control something after you've sold it. If you want to retain control, then rent it out instead of selling it.
Same thing as whining that your neighbor can't put a vegetable garden in his front yard, or park cars on his lawn to work on them, because it lowers your property value. If you want that control, then negotiate a contract. And pay your other neighbor, the one with the award-winning garden, for raising your property values.
The only way to keep a secret is to keep it secret. Once you've "sold" it, it's no longer yours.
If someone violates an NDA to "steal" your idea, sue for that violation, but don't pretend it's theft. If someone copies your $10,000 handbag design and misspells the brand name as "GUCC1", that's still fraud for trying to fool shoppers.
Well, one thing China most certainly stole from the United States are the plans for creating nuclear weapons which they have produced an unknown number of and keep underground to evade satellite recon on specific numbers on how many nuclear weapons they have actually made.
If a 'trade partner' steals the most potent weapon every designed by man from you, and then builds an unknown number of them that they actively hide from you, does that tell you anything about what else they might do?
They steal a lot more from each other than they get from the US, if that makes you feel any better. It's probably safe to say there isn't a successful product in China that doesn't have its counterfeit counterpart readily available on the market. The quality is typically not as high. There's even a saying in China - every in China is counterfeited except atomic bombs. (And maybe they counterfeit those too.)
What's that got to do with the concept of intellectual "property"?
It sounds more like that idiotic libertarian purist argument against stealing a 5 cent part to fix the rocket which can blow up the comet which is going to destroy the Earth.
If you want to argue the existence of intellectual property itself, that's your business. I have no interest in going down that 'what if' rabbit hole.
Amusingly, the current model of 'own nothing, rent everything' is exactly what you appear to advocate for so off the cuff one could simply say it's already heading in a direction you'd be happy with.
As an example, in the past I could purchase a copy of software and run it myself forever. Now, I'd have to rent a license from the developer and need to pay monthly or yearly for the same basic functionality. As a bonus, technically I need to purchase a license for each individual that will be using the technology lest I be in violation of the contract. It also relies on an 'always on' connection to the internet to constantly validate that it's a legal copy.
Most people don't consider this development a positive, but I'd suppose this is progress to you.
Actually his view on IP is a company can never rent or sell software, it all has to be FOSS. Because if someone stole the software code it is now free to use by anyone for any reason.
His viewpoint is to remove all profit incentive for new technology.
Potentially, although at this point the software doesn't even run on a machine at the office it runs on a server at the developers office so there isn't really a way to get access to the source code even if I was so inclined.
Nope. I have faith in markets and individuals. Why do people buy original crappy paintings when they can buy Van Gogh prints? Because they like originals. There was no shortage of books and music and art before copyrights, and there won't be a shortage if they disappear again.
Besides, you are arguing for the results you want rather than any kind of principle of liberty. You aren't even honest enough to object to copyrights extending 75/90 years after death, or patents on trivial extensions of existing technology, in spite of "not obvious to someone skilled in the arts."
Look at of of the subjects of this typically stupid modern Reason article, Gucci knockoffs. People don't buy Gucci because it's so much better than the knockoffs, they buy Gucci to show off, and they will continue doing so. There was an article a few years back about someone who had mass produced original designs looking as good as Gucci et al, but priced at 1/10 the price. They didn't sell for shit; the people that wanted Gucci cachet wouldn't be caught dead with something so cheap, and the people that could afford it would rather buy a cheaper Gucci knockoff. He didn't get any good sales until he raised he price into Gucci territory.
As for technology, you have a misguided view of what that is. Copying any technology is a dead end; the copycats don't develop any useful inhouse knowledge. They don't provide any support. They can't provide new features or bug fixes. They are always behind the curve. People who are satisfied with cheap copycats are always behind the same curve. People who want bug fixes and support go to the original.
Please examine to us how theft of others work is the principled stance lol.
Just because you don't value what other people spend time and money on, doesn't take away their ownership.
Youre entire view on IP is honestly sophomoric. You want to steal peoples labor for your own free use.
Do you even understand what IP is? Honest question.
A few examples.
Any electronic. Apple spends hundreds of millions in Engineering to keep improving the product. You demand they give the IP from those costs away for free.
Industrial efficiency improvements to lower product costs. You demand the company give that IP away for free, reducing their incentive to keep reducing costs.
Your views on IP are quite frankly ignorant.
My knowledge of history and being in the tech industry tells me how ignorant you are. My knowledge of history and liberty tells me how unprincipled you are, and that you are arguing to get the results you want regardless of the means.
Nobody believes you're in the fucking tech industry lol.
Again, your principle seems to include the theft of other people's labor. So get the fuck out of here with that idiocy.
If a company pays you 1M to build them a database or program, can you then, after completion just sell that same program to their competitor? Under your understanding the answer is yes. Youre a thief.
And there is no fucking way you're in tech or you would understand how IP costs and IRAD get rolled into price of goods sold as a cost. It is a cost born by an individual or company to produce something, and you support selling that. Even in the cases they also pay for security costs.
Youre a fucking thief man.
Sure you are in tech. Go look up cases:
YouTube vs Viacom.
Motorola Vs Apple vs Samsung and Google.
BlackBerry vs Typo Products
And get back to us. You seem to think IP is selling. It's not.
We can even go lower - you make cake with a specific recipe. I see your recipe and copy exactly down to the gram. Did I steal from you?
I work with space contractors. There is a lot of IP/priority information we have to have firewalled between.
Quick question for you.
You spend 3 weeks building a shed. Your labor can't be controlled and it isnt physical.
Can I just come over, steal your shed, and replace it with an unbuilt one? No issues at all. Not theft?
Try making a sensible argument next time. If you copied my shed, I'd have no loss.
God that's a sarc level argument. You can do better than that.
And proof you dont understand the issue lol.
You think IP is a trademark patent. Holy fuck youre ignorant.
This IP isn’t being copied dumbass, it is being stolen even when protected through security measures dumb shit. Especially given the case of industrial production IP, where the IP never leaves the fucking company. Youre a moron on this issue. The level of sarc lol.
Again. Youre not in fucking tech if you don’t understand this fact. Lol.
" That’s why CCRs, HOAs, and IP are invalid — you can’t control something after you’ve sold it."
What about the software in the car you buy? You may own the car, but you don't own or control the software in it. I believe it's safe to say the same thing about any product that has any sophisticated software component.
" If someone copies your $10,000 handbag design "
My acquaintance in the pirating business set me straight. It not someone copying your product and passing them off as the real thing. It's that Luis Vuitton, say, orders a factory in China to make 1000 handbags. The factory does this, but unbeknownst to LV, they go on to make 1000 more, same quality, material and workers with the first 1000. These are sold for a significant discount to customers who may or may not know or care about their provenance. The profits are pocketed by the factory owner, without LV getting a fen. (100 fen = 1 yuan)
Just curious. Can people rationally buy something (land and house) and voluntarily agree to mutual restrictions on use?
People can agree to anything. They can also violate all agreements.
I can agree to not throw my leaves in my neighbor's yard. Doing so isn't theft.
I can agree to not steal my neighbor's BBQ grill. But that's theft whether or not I agree to not steal it.
I can agree to not copy my neighbor's garden layout. But it's not theft to violate that agreement.
I can agree to not steal my neighbor’s BBQ grill. But that’s theft whether or not I agree to not steal it.
Yet above you fully advocate China hacking into someone’s company and steal the product of millions of dollars of investment into a product because….
It is like you’ve never talked to anybody who designs something, writes code, or anything else.
You also make the same mistake as the author and seemingly assume IP is just design patents. Youre wrong.
All you’ve done is say you don’t consider the work product of someone else valid because it leads to IP.
Do you even know why the patent system was invented? To encourage disclosure. But I guess that’s no longer needed because you think we should just encourage theft.
Youre credit card number is just a series of information. Please just post your credit card number here so everyone can see it. Please include expedition date and security code.
Youre social security number and name are just information. Not a real thing. So please post it here as well.
Identity theft is no longer theft so please put your beliefs into action.
Show me on the doll where I said this.
Good grief Jesse. You're better than that. Stop posting such drivel.
You are literally dismissing IP as a product just above saying it isnt a tangenible thing while confusing it was trademark patents dumbass.
Youre so fucking dumb on this topic.
Chinas IP theft is not just copying someone else. If thats what you truly think uoure completely ignorant of the issue.
You’ve gone full sarc on this issue dumbass.
What the fuck do you even think IP theft is lol.
Youre not better than this because you pull this same dumb bullshit everytime someone brings up IP. But now you add in youre in tech. If you were you'd understand it isnt just copying that is being taken. That the industry spends over 100B a year on security costs of their IS systems. But you keep claiming the issue is only copying which shows an utter ignorance of the damn issue.
You dismissing these costs and the real issues shows you support the theft as these costs are from IS intrusions on companies. You are supporting theft.
Either youre fucking ignorant or that is the only argument youre making. The issue is not about fucking copying products dumbass.
Even by your own definition it is regarding control. Just like a thief can go into your house and steal, China enters illegally into a business to steal IP.
I get it. You don't work in research and design or technology. So you put no value into it. That is your own bias.
But just as much work goes into IP development as building a fucking house.
Just because you want cheaper shit despite the control on IP others develop, doesn't make your theft justified.
Youre completely wrong as this issue as you only focus solely on your benefit. Ironically you ignore the costs to develop and protect IP add to the costs and also retard future development. All so you can have an immediacy on price reductions due to theft.
You dont have a libertarian view here. Real money goes into the shit you dont care about. Real work and effort goes into the development, but you dismiss it. It is a sad view really.
Yeah, this is what I argued, all right.
What part of illegal entry does NOT violate my control of my property.
Quit gobbering. That's just plain stupid.
Now you're even inventing crap out of thin air like sarc. I've probably been in the tech business longer than you've been alive.
China is literally hacking into company servers or putting people into companies to steal their information.
What is seriously wrong with you? Are you this fucking ignorant on the topic?
And like sarc you’ve gone full sarc. Lol.
Nobody believes you if you dont even understand why your company spends money on security against intrusions.
Nobody. Believes. You.
Trust me when I say I have my name on more patents and trade secrets than you do.
Hacking is no different than breaking and entering, and would thus violate the NAP. Using the ill gotten gains from that would obviously be theft. And that’s not the argument that alphabet is making, at least the way I read his posts.
“Republican China hawks have a problem.”
Hawks like Nikki Haley who this magazine actually pushed?
And why just “Republican China Hawks”?
The Biden administration just boosted Trump’s 25% tariff to 100%, literally citing “China’s forced technology transfers and intellectual property theft” as the reason. And yet somehow, Mr. Vigilante, in your whole article you fail to mention what the Democratic administration actually in control is doing.
… and I think that we all know why.
Is it because Democrats are expected to be hostile to trade based upon lies while Republicans are expected to support trade and take the high road, but now it’s difficult to see a difference?
Theft is not trade you anti free market shil.
No.
It's because modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats
Republicans are expected to ... take the high road
Sarcasmic is so principled he can hold the parties to two different sets of standards.
As opposed to having no principles at all and judging everything by who, not what, like you do? Yes.
The strawmen you make are exquisite. You’re a true craftsman, Sarcasmic.
Also, NO U!!!
That explains why I consistently oppose protectionism on principle, while your brain buckles when a politician you hate does the same thing. Strawman. Sure.
Another thing I have never done. You just can't stop lying, huh?
You dont have principles.
You even try to protect the DNC with dozens of posts regarding good intentions. Lol.
Imagine posting this right after saying it’s different based on which party does it.
Lol. Yeah, I was gonna say…
Republicans are expected to … take the high road
Politics ain't noble, and playing like that is playing to lose.
Sarc lets the Democrats have a gun, while the Rethuglikkkans must use Marquess of Queensbury rules fisticuffs.
It's the "High road".
If that’s how you describe having principles and a moral sense, sure.
You could only argue that it would be principled and moral, if you were a psychopath preying on the stupid.
It’s not principled to tie one groups hands behind their backs because you expect them to play nice, especially while acknowledging that the other group came to play with knives and brass knuckles.
And now we have reason defending the rampant theft and increased domestic security costs, all added to cost of goods sold to consumers, that dwarf the cost of tariffs.
They really should stop hiring journalist and polic sci majors to be economists. Not a single one of them has ever produced a single damn thing. They have no understanding of costs. They've never had to run budgets for IRAD, security, etc. They are just ignorant.
The reluctant and strategic libertarian free trade voters who supported Biden conveniently overlooked the fact that his 2020 campaign pretty much copied Trump's "tough on China" talk and policies, because they were popular with voters.
If Trump supporters had any principles they’d be cheering Biden on trade.
But they won’t. They can’t. Because that would mean judging what, not who.
"If Trump supporters had any principles they’d be cheering Biden on trade."
Why?
Why would they be cheering Biden on trade if they had any principles?
Try to avoid using a strawman in your response.
Because it is the only bumper sticker he can think of and doesn’t realize how retarded he sounds repeating it.
Don't dare to even mention nobody here defended Trumps protective tariffs.
I admit I defended his anti market tariffs to force China to stop their anti free market actions. Sarc won't admit it forced China to cut down on it. Gladly Joe came back and they can run rampant again.
Principled people oppose both Trump and Biden’s trade policies.
You support and defend Trump’s trade policies while being silent about Biden’s, except to reluctantly or strategically admit that they aren’t much different.
You are just like the people you hate lol.
You support and defend Trump’s trade policies
I supported the USMCA, and many of Trump's excellent trade policies.
However, I never once supported tariffs, and you are trying to imply that I did, because you are a liar.
I have yet to see a tariff article where Trump supporters were shitting all over Biden’s policies.
In at least some fairness to Reason, they publish all kinds of idiots.
It is pretty bizarre to pretend this is a Republican only position though. It’s rather like skipping over Obama telling Romney that the 1980’s wants it’s foreign policy back only to flip immediately to ‘Russian election interference’ at the drop of a hat. Nobody even batted at eye at how hilariously out of touch that little nugget turned out to be.
Especially since Clinton herself was a part of both the ‘reset button’ and behind the ‘Russia is a dangerous election meddler’ within just a few short years. If that doesn’t scream incompetence at a baseline level, I don’t know what does.
Republicans, even Mitt Romney, being more consistent and correct on that issue should give people pause.
In fact, that comment aged about as well as this article probably will.
China would never steal IP from other companies and sell cheap knockoffs.
Yet the American companies that claim to be victims enter into these agreements freely and rarely come out net losers.
Because the cost of compliance is always less than the unrealized profits.
Could you be any more of a shill for materialism?
I mean, shit, you could make this exact same argument for justifying any regulation.
"It costs more to prosecute and punish shoplifting (and auto theft and grand larceny) so to avoid the net losses we have decided to legalize crime."
https://x.com/FromKulak/status/1797135530422857829?t=SYffqdD5mkvCN-TkD4QURQ&s=19
The end result is the goal.
They hate small business owners. Satan himself does not hate God as much as bureaucrats making 120k hate business owners making 60k.
They hate the fact people are doing honest work and enjoying freedom as a result. So they destroy them.
[Link]
From the comments: The purpose of the system is what it does.
Touched a nerve for me there. I managed to support myself for about 40 years as a small business owner. It's nothing to brag about. I probably could have done better for myself and my family if I had just slogged away at a job. But I'm not wired up that way. I actually consider it a personality flaw. What scares me is that people like me won't ever have the opportunity to succeed or fail on their own. Something like the end of the American dream. I hope I'm wrong.
Chinese style authoritarian "capitalism" with sweetheart government partnerships, slave labor camps, muzzled press, and billionaires. What's a Koch-brand libertarian not to like?
China is the blueprint for the WEF/Davos crowd.... tight, centralized government control, with private ownership of the means of production (i.e. textbook fascism) and business owners allowed to become wealthy, as long as they tow the lion.
Dreamy.
https://x.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1797246146252779650?t=bh5eDCScSFcvOJP8TklQ_A&s=19
The constitution was made for a moral and religious people, it is wholly inadequate to govern what we’ve become
Which is why it doesn’t
[Link]
The constitution was made to protect people from powerful centralized government, because people back then weren’t moral either. They had no “angels in the form of men” to govern in the 18th century, either.
What about angels in the form of government bureaucrats and police officers? I mean, how else can we justify a massive and comprehensive government mission and program?
I've been saying for quite some time that China, despite the ruling party's name, isn't communist. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at China, set aside all the CCP propaganda and come to the obvious conclusion that they are fascist not communist nor socialist. The evidence speaks for itself.
As for China being a threat, perhaps if it stops the genocide in Xinjiang, forced relocation of Hong Kong residents to the mainland, incessant threats against Taiwan, and thuggish behavior in the South China Sea with their nine/ten-dash line nonsense attacking everyone else's boats, causing severe damage with their high pressure water cannons then maybe, just maybe, I wouldn't consider them the biggest threat the US has.
Then again we could go fully into the Firefly universe and create the Sino-American Alliance and go to every other country and show them the picture of a cut up snake and say "comply or die, 懂吗."
That "join or die" flag is racist though....
The world only has differing degrees of fascism.
The actual danger coming from China is that they are dumping trillions in US treasuries. They've been practising vendor financing for decades so the federal government can max out the credit card. They obviously don't want to destroy the US economy, at least not yet. But if that day ever comes the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.
So it turns out that "record high" temperatures in 2023 weren't due to global warming, but due to the COVID lockdowns, which led to a big reduction in pollution and allowed more sunshine to hit the Earth..... sort of the opposite mechanism of the so-called greenhouse effect....
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/30/termination-shock-cut-in-ship-pollution-sparked-global-heating-spurt?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us
Until 2020, global shipping used dirty, high-sulphur fuels that produced air pollution. The pollution particles blocked sunlight and helped form more clouds, thereby curbing global heating. But new regulations at the start of 2020 slashed the sulphur content of fuels by more than 80%. The new analysis calculates that the subsequent drop in pollution particles has significantly increased the amount of heat being trapped at the Earth’s surface that drives the climate crisis.
Kind of like when CFCs were banned to fix the hole in the ozone layer, and temperatures also rose.... turns out less pollution means higher temperatures.
Hmm, enforced cuts in sulphur oxide emissions reduced atmospheric reflectivity and increased surface temperatures--proving global warming.
Can we spin this as another conspiracy?
I'm all in for more pollution but I like the warm weather more.
Seán Ono Lennon
@seanonolennon
Man the new White House make over looks pretty sweet.
“No Burger King tonight, kids. We’re strapped on cash so we’re going to Ruth’s Chris.”
Just wait until your government job pays you in vouchers to be used only at approved government vendors, staffed by approved government workers, paid in (you got it) vouchers.
How else can we have a "fair" economy?
I sold my soul to the company store
What happens when the company is the state?
One thing we learned in the 1990s was that a surefire way to reconnect the fortunes of working people at all skill levels, immigrant and native-born alike, to the growing economy is to let the job market tighten up. A tight job market pressures employers to boost wage offers to get and keep the workers they need.
One equally surefire way to sort-circuit this useful dynamic is to turn on the immigrant spigot every time some group's wages go up.
Open borders + welfare is about subverting the free market.
"Open borders + welfare is about subverting the free market."
China's average wages have been growing across the board for decades now. Closed borders and no welfare.
LOL border restrictionism is the opposite of a free market. It effectively creates a labor cartel where the native-born labor is artificially priced higher than comparable foreign-born labor. Try to rationalize it any way you want, but it isn't free market.
LOL outlawing slavery is the opposite of a free market. It effectively creates a labor cartel where free labor is artificially priced higher than comparable slave labor. Try to rationalize it any way you want, but it isn’t free market.
Free markets have base principles that include rule of law, property rights, and self ownership.
So slavery isn’t compatible.
What's going on isn't the free market.
Now you're defending slavery to attack me and jeff. Pathetic.
"Now you’re defending slavery to attack me and jeff."
War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength
Sarcasmic and Jeff are now officially in Orwell's "1984" territory.
Rule of law like the one’s that say how many immigrants we allow in through legal channels?
Slavery is a violation of fundamental human rights. Simply being born in another country is not.
Literally the opposite of your claim is true. A tight job market in a laissez-faire economy pressures employers to boost wage offers to get and keep the workers they need.
But what you and your ilk are advocating right now is introducing foreign workers who are tax and regulation free and subsidized with free housing, medical care and a salary, to deliberately subvert the natural balance.
You guys couldn’t be destroying the free market more effectively if you tried, Nazi.
Let me explain this in small words so that even you can understand it.
In the absence of border restrictions on labor, then the market price of labor is determined by the overall supply and demand considering all the pool of workers willing to work in that field.
But if the government makes it illegal for a certain portion of those workers to even have a job in the country, then that creates an artificial shrinking of the labor pool and reduces the supply of workers, driving up the price of that labor.
Which is the whole point of border restrictions from a labor point of view. To protect domestic labor from foreign competition.
I'll also point out that you are pulling a Shapiro with your smuggling in of hidden assumptions. In this case, you implicitly assume that the "natural balance" is one with tons of government mandates and regulations restricting foreign labor from competing in the domestic market. That is not the "natural balance" from an economic perspective. That is the government-created situation with an artificially small labor pool.
If you want what is effectively a labor cartel enforced by government, then just say so. But don't pretend that it is "free market".
Jeff and saec continue to intentionally ignore both welfare and labor requirements for citizens and they call it a free labor market lol.
Jeff, do you know what group of employees is waived for companies to pay ACA taxes for? Immigrants. Artificial market disruption. And you support it.
Then you subsidize the 50% utilization of government benefits for immigrants households.
Youre entire spell ignores reality intentionally.
If there was no welfare, no regulatory structure on labor markets, your assessment would be accurate. Thats not the fucking world that exists and you support the welfare and benefits from migrant laborers over citizens.
". . . we should champion and nurture the entrepreneurial spirit that's as much a part of China's DNA as it is America's. That's the path to a richer, more collaborative future."
Well, we thought it would be, when Nixon opened up China, when Jimmy Carter cautioned against taking a stance over the Tiannmen Square massacre.
It's not working out as advertised.
We were keen on Pinochet's Chile, an economy conceived and put into place by America's most revered economists.
What is your feeling about the integrity of China's business press? I remember hearing that a free and open press was absolutely vital to a well functioning capitalist economy, and pundits speculated whether or not China was willing to sacrifice the control over information for a growing economy.
Turd’s old employer wasted a lot of money.
https://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/courtdocs/clk/GeneralOrder2024-J.pdf
Since May 16, 2024, the Clerk of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has received over 1,000 judicial complaints against Judge Cannon that raise allegations that are substantially similar to the allegations raised in previous complaints. These complaints appear to be part of an orchestrated campaign...
Many of the complaints against Judge Cannon request that the Chief Circuit Judge remove her from the classified-documents case and reassign the case to a different judge.
Everything that the Democrats do is crooked and slimey.
Some genius once said 'the best way to complain is to create.'
Britain had the right idea. On Oct. 5th 1962 the first James Bond film Dr. No was released. On the same day, the Beatles released their first single, Love Me Do. The two went on to dominate their respective fields for decades to come. They represent the tension between establishment control, (Bond hated the Beatles,) and working class liberation, (Ringo married a Bond girl.)
Next installment of 007 will be a woke friendly remake called Cocktopussy
OR...woke friendly remake entitled "Doctor Maybe".
>It was freedom, not spying or stealing, that made China rich.
You're saying that people in China have freedom?
I can't quite figure out the motivations for this articles wrongness. Is it just wrongness that's responsible for its wrongness, or is it a disdain for "America First Republicans" (While the Biden administration is literally preparing for war with China) that's responsible, is it its comically cartoonish myopia (you can't blame the raindrops for the flood!) or it just a flagrant propaganda piece?
or it just a flagrant propaganda piece?
This. Totally.
Ideas aren't property
No, they're not. Exclusive use of an idea through patents and copyrights is a privilege extended by government force, not a property right.
Another person who doesn't understand patents. Lol.
Parents are a trade of exclusive limited monopoly for disclosure. Companies also keep trade secrets. When you steal those protected secrets it is literal theft.
Go join ABC and sarc in supporting theft.
exclusive limited monopoly
A privilege extended by government, not a property right.
He doesn't understand the difference.
The point he wants to make requires ignoring the point you actually made. Unrelated. This isn't "talking past each other", more like "going into different rooms and talking to someone else about an entirely different subject".
It seems to me, in my reading of everyone’s comments, that they aren’t discussing things that are secret (which would require some kind of actual theft to be made public).
I could be wrong though.
Forced mobilization in Dnipro in native region of Zelensky in Ukraine. Daily number of such videos of forced mobilization in different regions of Ukraine increased significantly after his new mobilization law came into effect two weeks ago. Those who want to fight to the last Ukrainian do not volunteer to fight themselves.
https://x.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1797000448345288826
Reason: Meh.
Where can I get my “I stand with Ukraine” flag delivered to my room in my mom’s basement?
Uh...I'm actually only "willing to post the Ukrainian flag to the last Ukrainian".
How much virtue do I accrue?
I've had my own IP stolen by a Chinese company, it was a test run to see if we could automate production there. The next season, copies of our product line were available from all sorts of vendors at all the major trade shows.
Not much we could do about it - except learn our lesson.
As long as Americans can justify stealing music and movies without reimbursing those that own the rights, your loss is worth it (to them).
The real value of a recording of a song is $0.
“You didn’t build that”
- looter class
It is amazing what non producers will use to justify their theft.
When someone copies a song, nothing has been "looted". All previous copies still exist.
You’ve stolen the content without compensating the owner for what they have asked unless they have given you or universal permission to do so freely.
Nope. Everyone who had the content still has it. Nothing has been stolen. A government-imposed monopoly has been violated. Not the same thing as theft.
You are taking something from someone that has created that something and not compensating them for the amount they have established. You are justifying your theft; it is still theft.
You are uncomfortable with the idea that creative people are the recipients of a government benefit when they enjoy a monopoly imposed by government force, because that seems to violate libertarian principles. You are justifying that benefit by fantasizing that a mere idea can be "property", and the rights to that "property" empower the "owner" to control the behavior of others.
You are justifying indulging in consumptive urges aka feelingz without compensation. Stop being a thief.
Just admit that there is no such thing as "intellectual property" and that copyrighting is a government benefit, then we can discuss whether and under what conditions copyright protection is a good idea.
You're stealing a base. Per Vernon's point above, you're assuming I/we would pay anything above $0 rather than just do without or move on to the next free item.
This is distinct from Minadin's issue where they're selling against him in the market (of people who are willing to pay things for his/the products).
I’m not assuming you are willing to or have the ability to pay more than $0.00 for content that has a price. When do you take it without meeting the owner’s compensation demands, it is theft.
There is no “owner”. Only the beneficiary of a government-imposed monopoly. There is no “theft”. Only non-compliance with a demand from the government.
The person that retains the rights at its creation owns it. Snowflakes aren’t entitled to taking content without proper compensation. To do so is theft. Stop stealing content.
There are no such "rights". Copyright protection is a government benefit.
I feel like this argument in the comments shows a clear divide between people that used Napster and people that didn’t.
(All the Gen Zer’s: What the fuck is a Napster, grandpa?)
It feels very S230 retcon-esque, walled gardens/manufactured ecosystem, or WEF “Own nothing and like it” the way I could freely record just the songs and shows I liked OTA on VHS and cassette for 2-3 decades until, all of a sudden, copying things became illegal.
Probably me just imagining things that weren’t really better when I was 11-15.
Babylon Bee prophecy is almost complete
Progressives are making the Bee's job impossible.
Out: Internet trolls pretending to be ex-Navy SEAL hedge fund managers with underwear model spouses.
In: Internet trolls pretending to be ex-Navy SEAL hedge fund managers with underwear model spouses who've never had monkeypox.
Did Alvin Bragg break the law in his prosecution of Trump?
If he broke the law, then which one? Whichever one it is, he himself should be prosecuted for whatever law that he broke.
But if he did not break the law, and the law itself permitted this unjust result to occur, then fundamentally it is the law itself which ought to be reformed to prevent this outcome from occurring in the future. If this is the case, then how should the law be reformed?
Stop justifying state abuse Jeff.
Braggiterally ran a campaign to get Trump. Even the New Yorker and fucking NYT stated how this was a completely novel theory. But like most authoritarians you support it.
The same questions you have here are the same ones against Jack Smith by Bob McDonnell. The USSC struck down the criminal findings of Jack Smith as an unconstitutional reach of the law. But democrats promoted Jack Smith because McDonnell was now broke and no longer on Congress.
So to answer your question, it is statutory.
But then again using the expansive definition of law by your team against Trump, Bragg and Merchan can be charged with deprivation of rights when this is over turned. Death penalty an option.
Keep asking for the elevation.
Like any evangelical ideology, TDS can justify anything.
Long TDS. Or is his case, wide TDS.
Bragg and Merchan can be charged with deprivation of rights when this is over turned. Death penalty an option.
Here's the statute:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242
Oh so you're opposed to QI now.
I have been for as long as I've been posting here.
Oh and let's look at how Trump is responding to his conviction.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/02/politics/donald-trump-possible-jail-time-house-arrest/index.html
Of course, this is Trump who thought that there was an Article 12 of the Constitution (there isn't) and who claimed: "I have an Article 2 where I have the right to do whatever I want as president" (no he doesn't). Oh and he "joked" about being dictator "for a day". Yeah. That guy is totally on the side of the Constitution.
And it's a little bit hard to believe that he is so, so concerned about Melania's mental health when the whole reason he is in this mess is because he cheated on his former wife with a porn star. He doesn't seem like a guy who really gives a shit about what his wife thinks about his actions. He is such a con man.
If you weren't retarded you could look up the McDonnell case and see the constitutional question. But youre retarded. And fat.
What a pathetic douchebag.
Now Trump claims he never said "lock her up" referring to Hillary.
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/i-didnt-say-lock-her-up-trump-distances-himself-from-call-to-jail-clinton
Almost every Dem DA ran on locking Trump up. Yet you defend their actions when they follow through.
Are you that big a fucking hypocrite ?
Stupid Trump. He says all sorts of illegal things in his crass way, and never does them. Why he can't be more sophisticated like Democrats, and just use their insider connections to actually break laws.
It means that Trump says whatever happens to zip through his brain at any given moment to make himself look good in front of whatever audience he is in front of. He has no conviction and no principles. It is all about himself. This is just one more reason why he cannot be trusted with power. Because he cannot be trusted to "do the right thing", because for him, the only "right thing" is whatever makes him feel good in the moment.
How much Chinese IP theft is tolerable, Dick?
Don't ask Dick. Ask Dong. ie any Chinese dude named Dong. The Chinese have been tolerating IP theft for millennia. More than 2000 years ago they invented paper. Used it tea bags, toilet paper, books and money. 800 years later, thieving traders introduced paper to the Muslim world, and 300 years after that it made its way into parchment using Europe. Parchment was extremely expensive and literacy had dropped to almost nobody save a few monks and the aristocracy. Paper made the Enlightenment possible.
Why do so many Chinese take the trouble and expense to study in American universities? It's a lot to do with the low standards at Chinese universities, where cheating, plagiarism, and lots of other bad practices are common if not the norm. This sort of license to IP theft is deeply ingrained in Chinese culture. Americans aren't going to change that. America's hope lies in its ability to create and innovate, and set an example for the rest of the world in popular cultural circles, music, movies and so on. Better copied against than copying, to quote the bard.
America’s hope lies in its ability to create and innovate, and set an example for the rest of the world in popular cultural circles, music, movies and so on.
So you're saying we're screwed.
There's always other countries out there. But as long as the Chinese see American products and ideas as worthy of copying, you needn't worry. When they decide that nothing America produces is worth copying, then you can start worrying.
'mom and pop' companies do not create fake watches.
It is not designer junk that is the problem
bearings
measuring equipment
tools
car parts
only retail quantities?
because of cheap shipping due to negotiated rates people buy in retail quantities, but by the hundreds of thousands
What about shipments to other countries?
American and Japanese brands are still valued worldwide
The author has no idea what he's talking about. I worked as a semiconductor engineer at a U.S. company for 21 years. Chinese nationals at the company were pretty blatant about sharing their newfound knowledge with their buddies at home. Eventually, the company started firing American engineers and hiring Chinese engineers in their stead. Nobody seemed to care.
We're 3 - 4 generations behind the Chinese (and other countries) in semiconductor manufacturing technology and falling further behind every day. In a few years, we're going to wake-up to find that we're a 3rd world country with no manufacturing base, and a bunch of woke idiots running the country.
"In a few years, we’re going to wake-up to find that we’re a 3rd world country with no manufacturing base, and a bunch of woke idiots running the country."
But enough about 2014.
Richard and Fiona sitting in a tree.
No other countries do any wrongs but the US. Ignore all the Chinese sneaking across the border. Ignore any theft unless it's done by the cops.
How low has Reason sunk. Bring back Drew
"Critics of China argue that the nation's economic boom and tech triumphs are largely built on these underhanded tactics. They paint a picture of modern China as merely a glossy cover over the same old Maoist playbook, suggesting the U.S. brace for imminent war."
Wow. That is an epic strawman argument.
Believe it or not, one can believe that China has been systematically stealing IP AND also believe that China's recent growth is largely due to a liberalization of its economy. The two ideas are not mutually incomptable, and even if SOME knuckleheads think that the ONLY reason for China's growth is stealing IP, that doesn't mean that an intellectually honest author would focus on only these knuckleheads.
One can also believe that pointing out China's rampant IP theft (which is often state-sponsored, INCLUDING the government requirement that entering China can only be done in JVs, in contravention of WTO rules and certainly not just the result of private negotiation) can be done for reasons other than warmongering.
Do better.