They Said They Didn't Want War With Iran. Now They're Cheering on War With Iran.
Many of the Washington hawks calling for war with Iran had sworn up and down that more pressure was not a path to war.

Drop a frog into boiling water, and it jumps right out. But put the frog in lukewarm water that is being heated gradually, the legend goes, and you can boil the unsuspecting creature.
We are now in boiling water. After years of tension with Iran, war looks to be on the horizon. Iranian-backed militias have been clashing with U.S.-led forces across the region for the past several months. This weekend, the U.S. military stepped in directly to defend Israel from a direct Iranian missile attack for the first time ever.
Many of the hawks calling for war today used to swear up and down that they weren't seeking war. We just want a little bit more pressure on Iran, politicians insisted, and certainly wouldn't call for a full-on invasion. Boil the water slowly.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) has been one of the loudest voices in Congress calling for war over the past few months. In the wake of the October 2023 attacks on Israel, he called for bombing Iran even if there was no evidence that Iran was behind the attacks. After Iraqi militias killed three U.S. troops in December, the senator declared, "Hit Iran now. Hit them hard." Referring to an Iranian military headquarters, Graham urged President Joe Biden to "blow it off the map."
A few years ago, Graham was terribly offended by the idea that he would call for war with Iran. In 2015, when then-President Barack Obama said that a deal to halt Iran's nuclear program was the only alternative to war, Graham issued a joint statement with the late Sen. John McCain (R–Ariz.) attacking the "false choices" that Obama was presenting.
"No one believes that military force can and should solve all problems. No one believes that diplomacy, including diplomacy with adversaries, is tantamount to weakness," Graham and McCain stated. "The alternative to this deal was never war; it was greater pressure on Iran and insistence on a better agreement."
Commenting on Graham's attitude, Max Fischer noted in Vox that "Iran hawks can't be honest about what they really want" because "a repeat of what we did in Iraq…is not a politically palatable idea." At least not yet.
Graham got what he wanted; former President Donald Trump tore up the deal that Obama had made, began a "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran, and brought in Graham as an adviser. They never did get that "better agreement," but the United States did come close to bombing Iran several times, with Graham as a cheerleader for escalation.
Along with Graham, the neoconservative Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD) was one of the most important actors advising Trump on Iran. FDD had a cozy relationship with the administration and even kept a member of Trump's National Security Council on its payroll.
Like Graham, the foundation's CEO Mark Dubowitz had insisted that his goal was to "fix not nix" diplomacy over the Iranian nuclear program.
"One thing we don't want to do is go to war with Iran, and we're trying to find peaceful ways to stop the Iranians and all the malign activities," Dubowitz said in a 2016 interview on C-SPAN.
Would it be surprising to hear that Dubowitz is now calling for war? On Monday, he mused that "it is time for friendly foreign powers to commit to a crushing preemptive attack on Iran's nuclear weapons program as well as giving Israel all the support it needs to destroy Tehran's terror armies."
He made it clear on social media that "friendly foreign powers" means the United States: "It's geopolitical malpractice for the US to subcontract the destruction of [Iranian Supreme Leader Ali] Khamanei's nuclear weapons program to Israel, a country of 10 million people. The Islamic Republic is one of our most dangerous enemies."
Dubowitz had also claimed in 2019 that he wasn't pursuing "regime change" in Iran because that would involve "mechanized US troops invading Iran like [in the] Iraq War." He then argued in 2022 that he had always been calling for "regime change" but only "through support for the Iranian people."
What do the Iranian people actually want? The Iranian opposition inside and outside the country is bitterly divided on whether Iran should be freed through foreign intervention.
But whenever the threat of war flares up, American media likes to give the hawkish faction a megaphone. One of the most prominent commentators is Masih Alinejad, an exiled Iranian journalist who now works for Voice of America, the U.S. government-funded news outlet.
After Israel bombed the Iranian consulate in Syria earlier this month, killing seven Iranian military officers, Alinejad told CNN's Jake Tapper that "Iranians are celebrating" the attack.
Alinejad once denied that she supported this kind of campaign. On the sidelines of the Halifax International Security Forum in November 2022, she urged a journalist in Persian to ignore anti-interventionists "who tell you 'don't launch a military attack, don't close the embassies,' because no one is calling for a military attack."
Exactly one year later, at the next Halifax conference, Alinejad called for a military attack. "If Israel or any allied democratic country were to strike Iranian nuclear sites," she said in another Persian-language interview, "I would naturally welcome it. Not just me but the people of Iran, too."
Others in the Iranian opposition disagree. Nasrin Sotoudeh, a human rights lawyer who has been in and out of Iranian prison for the past decade, issued a statement on Monday condemning both Iranian and Israeli actions. "We don't want war by any name," she wrote.
Americans are no strangers to the anti-war to pro-war switcheroo. The Iraq War had unfolded in much the same way. In the aftermath of the Gulf War of 1991, many American leaders insisted that regime change in Iraq would be going too far. A decade later, they insisted that regime change was the only way forward.
"I was not an enthusiast about getting U.S. forces and going into Iraq. We were there in the southern part of Iraq to the extent we needed to be there to defeat his forces and to get him out of Kuwait, but the idea of going into Baghdad, for example, or trying to topple the regime wasn't anything I was enthusiastic about," former defense secretary Dick Cheney said in a 1996 interview. "I felt there was a real danger here that you would get bogged down in a long drawn-out conflict, that this was a dangerous, difficult part of the world."
Just six years later, speaking as vice president, Cheney attacked the idea "that opposing Saddam Hussein would cause even greater troubles in that part of the world, and interfere with the larger war against terror. I believe the opposite is true. Regime change in Iraq would bring about a number of benefits to the region."
We've been boiled once. Will we get boiled again?
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I think I hate Lindsey Graham as much as I hate Mit Romney. Not as much as I hate Liz Cheney though.
Fucking RINO scumbags. Bad as the (D)s.
How the hell does his constituency association still keep nominating him? How come they haven’t done to him what Cheney’s did to her?
Also you forgot to mention McConnell.
Nominate? God knows. He is exceptionally powerful here.
He keeps winning because the D running against him is so damned awful.
Israel is on trial in the ICJ for committing genocide in Gaza.
Israel initiated the use of force by attacking Iran first.
Any nation, particularly signatories to the UN Convention, who are aiding Israel are not only complicit in the genocide but are defying their vows to the UN and the world at large.
The US continues to ignore its signatory obligations to the UN by sending bombs, money and troops to support Israel’s genocide in Gaza.
Now for the US to go to war alongside Israel who initiated the attack on Iran, its credibility on the world’s stage is nonexistent and its role has become an isolated pariah like North Korea.
For what? What dirt does Israel have on the US to coerce it to sacrifice everything, every US citizens reputation, to support these genocidal Israeli terrorists?
Refuted.
Refuted.
Much simpler isnt it?
You do you.
You do you by turning yourself in to yourself for lying to yourself!
And Fuck Off, Nazi!
But not as fun as telling him why he is wrong and why he should go Fuck Off.
The Mullahs of Iran attacked Israel's Embassy in Buenes Aires, Argentina in 1992 and attacked the Jewish Community Center there in 1994!
And the Mullahs of Iran have funded Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and Hamas attacks on Israel for all the years from then until now!
The Mullahs of Iran have long since had it coming!
Quit lying to yourself, furn yourself into yourself, and, of course...
Fuck Off, Nazi!
I have refuted any and all idiotic claims that I am a “Nazi”, by issuing the as yet unmet challenge to prove that I either am or advocate National Socialism. None who use that term in a feeble attempt at ad hominem have ever met the challenge.
By demonstrating that those who make the claim have Zero evidence to support it I have met the criteria for the definition of “refuting” the claim.
I refute idiots, like you, all the time.
You know there is a primary. You could vote against him then.
Remember when you voted for Romney because he is a white?? That was weird. 😉
Hey Pluggo, remember when you started supporting George Soros because he wants to legalize child molestation?
Sick burn, bro.
You're not denying it, bro.
Your failure of denial speaks volumes, Shrike.
Can we draft all the Gen Z Progressives and send them?
The ruling elites in both parties want a war, if for no other reason, to cover up their incompetence and corruption.
Not to mention the incipient monetary system crash due to their neverending spending spree. Oh that? That's overdrawn because we were at war.
Yeah, the Global Financial Meltdown was Barney Frank’s and Pelosi’s fault—they strong armed the huge flappy pussy Bush for his 8 years as president. U r smart!
KAR obviously doesn't know what the word "incipient" means. But U r dum everyone else.
Joe Biden is probably going to lose his re election campaign because he is doing everything he can to prevent a major war.
Watch Trump weaponize whatever Biden does or doesn't do. Trump has no principles except Trump.
Biden funded the war in Ukraine by raising energy prices so Putin could afford the war.
Biden gave Iran the green light to launch missiles at Israel.
Trump, for all his flaws, helped bring about the Abraham Accords and started zero new military conflicts.
You live in a fantasy world.
Under the last two Democratic Presidents, Russia has launched an invasion. Maybe you should consider why this keeps happening. Is it the weakness, the lack of patriotism, misguided foreign relations, economic policies, or all of the above?
We are energy dominant…you’ve got bad information.
America could be energy dominant. It isn't because a senile old man puppeteered by gaia cultists keeps blocking pipelines and drilling on public land.
America is energy dominant. My advice to you is to spend less time fantasizing about raping little boys and more time reading current events and then you won’t come across as such as ignoramus. Btw, you are Mother’s Nightmare! I feel gross even being around you sickos virtually!
Iran doesn't stop trying to kill Jews and Americans just because you "don't want a war" with them. Placating them does not work. Ignoring them does not work. What do you do with people who cannot, will not leave you alone and will persistently keep trying to kill you to death because they hate you until they die or you do?
Iran is more than willing to fight against Israel to the last Arab. See what happens when Persians start getting killed.
Iran is the opposite of Saudi Arabia in a sense.
In Saudiland the aristocracy are whisky-soaked libertines while the populace are hardliners.
In Iran the ruling clerics are hardliners while the populace is anything but.
Great comment. I suppose it matters whether the Persians getting killed support the current government.
The Iranians generally consider an Arab Sunni to be about half a step above a Jew.
Why do they hate the US?
Because the people who ended up on top of the pile in Iran (Islamic communists) derived their legitimacy through opposition to the Shah and his major backer: the US. The shah doesn't exist anymore, but the US does, so they hate that.
The US doesn't unquestionably fucked up that country, but fucking up Iran is not part of our core identity. The only unifying ideal in Iran is deadly hatred of Jews and the US. They have to fight America or they'd be forced to fight each other, and that is why their national slogan is "Death to America".
Iranian people are pretty cool. It's their oppressive theocratic government that sucks.
"It’s their oppressive theocratic government that sucks."
And what about the American people? Everyday they are becoming closer and closer to Iran's way of looking at things. In October last year, Americans were overwhelmingly supportive of Israel and against Palestine. Now this has reversed. American hatred of Jews is becoming the norm. It's only a matter of time before American city streets ring with 'Death to America' chanting.
Don’t confuse beliefs of loud minorities with that of the silent majority.
I'm going by what the polls say. Americans, particularly young Americans, are increasingly supporting Hamas and are critical of Israel. Exactly what you'd expect of polls in Iran. America's old folks must realize that if there is going to be a war against Iran, the sooner the better.
"beliefs of loud minorities "
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
― Margaret Mead
the quote can otherwise be summed with the word bullies
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
I'm trying remember the name of that small, thoughtful and committed group of citizens in the 1930's that changed the world. What was their name?
The thirties was a time of reaction. The changes were much more profound the decade before. Look at the advances in the field of physics, for example.
That’s because of the democrat party. Which has always been fundamentally anti-Semitic.
It's also been the party attracting the most Jewish voters and most Jewish contributions. Why, it's like Masada all over again. (Masada is a fortress where Jews holed up, drinking their own piss until they all topped themselves.)
Why, it’s like Masada all over again. (Masada is a fortress where Jews holed up, drinking their own piss until they all topped themselves.)
But enough of your freaky fantasies, Watermeoon Rickshaw Nazi Boy!
Today's Masada would be equipped with LRAD and would have Israel's enemies killing themselves to escape the pain.
The Republican Party in most of the US is basically theocratic.
No it isnt.
"No it isnt."
As Margaret Mead would have told you, it's that small group of committed god botherers that determine the GOP direction.
Margaret Mead was an idiot who's seminal work is now regarded as garbage because the Samoans she worked with spent most of their time bullshitting her for kicks.
"Margaret Mead was an idiot who’s seminal work is now regarded as garbage because the Samoans she worked with spent most of their time bullshitting her for kicks."
What a pity she didn't stick around for today's god bothering assholes of the GOP. Idiocy is no barrier.
The coalition that runs Israel today is thoroughly theocratic. Any of them when pressed, inevitably hearken back to scripture to justify their atrocities.
So true. I distinctly remember October 7th when they invaded Gaza to murder and rape the innocent. They used victims phones to send video of their atrocities the families and quoted scripture the whole time. Oh sorry. That was the people you support. Never mind. The IDF is losing soldiers by trying to sort out the terrorists from the innocent, instead of carpet bombing Gaza as I would do.
Remember all those rabbis convincing young Yeshiva graduates to blow themselves up in subways and kill infidels in major European cities?
Misconstrueman remembers.
"Remember all those rabbis convincing young Yeshiva graduates to blow themselves up in subways and kill infidels in major European cities? "
Better yet, get the goyim to sacrifice themselves. Remember when Israel promised us that all their problems would be solved if only somebody (non Jewish somebodies) would get to work removing the evil Saddam Hussein of Iraq? Thousands of Americans sacrificed their lives, and Iran was immeasurably strengthened in the resulting fiasco.
You fucking war mongerers are sickening, if only for refusing to learn from past mistakes.
Remember when the USS Liberty was bombarded by the Israeli Air Force for 12 hours while Israeli forces were invading their neighbors? The USS Liberty was flying an American flag and broadcasting in the clear that they were an American ship. Didn't matter.
He really is an animal.
And you'll be chanting with them, huh, Watermelon Rickshaw Nazi Boy?
I never meant to imply that there is something genetic about what people who are/were born in the territory known as Iran believe one way or another. In my posts above I tried to be as careful as I could to distinguish between "Iran" the country, the nation, and the oligarchical but not quite monolithic group of people who largely control it and "Iran" the group of people who happened to be born within its borders or descended from those who were. To be sure, some of the people who have fled Iran did so explicitly because they do not agree with how things are working there. However, it must also be noted that though Iran's government is, in fact, oppressive and theocratic, it enjoys broad popularity among its people (some of them anyway) and many of those who are dissatisfied with it are so because they wish it was more extreme than it is. As always, each person needs to be evaluated as an individual.
Be ruthless with systems. Be kind to people.
My thoughts exactly, though much more fleshed out.
The local Iranian family I know left Iran in the early Eighties and hated the Islamofascists for what they did to their nation. They also hated the 19 Islamo-Kamakazis of 9/11/2001.
The Grandparents were either Christian or Ba'hai and the Son was a wild, worldly, fully-assimilated American. He married an American "black" woman and had sweet kids. Last I seen him, he owned apartments, a laundry, and several convenience stores. He wanted to sell one and it had a big post in the center. He asked me: "Hey, ReEnco! You think I could convert this store to a strip club?"
I smiled mischievously and said: "Weeeeell! That's a possibility!"
🙂
😉
Thanks. Good answer. I mostly agree.
I think their hatred for the US would subside after a generation or so if the US stopped meddling the Middle East. It's not just that we fucked up, but we keep fucking up.
The rulers if Iran are the opposite of communists. They shot all the communists aa soon as they took power back in the 70s.
The biggest supporters of the Islamic Republic were the merchant class, the bazaari. Right leaning pundits like Canada's Fraser Institute even noted an improvement in Iran's business climate over the previous regime of the Shah.
You want that list in alphabetical order or in order of importance?
Americans are no strangers to the anti-war to pro-war switcheroo.
Yet they fall for it every time, and keep electing the same pieces of shit to office.
You’re part of the problem. You know that, right?
But you aren’t?? You still masturbate to your videotape of Fox News’ coverage of shock and awe!?!
Goddamn Shrike, that’s incredibly weak. Even for you. All that child porn must be really rotting your brain out.
Project much??
It's KAR, formerly DOL, not Shrike.
Ah, makes more sense with the tone.
Piece of shit number 1,2, or 3, what's the difference?
*cough* you defended Ukraine funding *cough*
Biden has played everything perfectly—we got great value for defense spending as Russia’s military has been degraded and we are energy dominant having replaced Russia’s natural gas market share in the EU. Btw, the natural gas we export to Europe comes from Speaker Johnson’s district.
Anything prefaced with Biden has played everything perfectly is best dismissed as clown shit.
We are energy dominant. Russia’s military has been degraded. American combat deaths are at the lowest point in over 20 years. America is stronger than it’s been since the 1990s after we hit our weakest in 2008/09.
Neocon much, KAR?
Nope, I’m a NeverBush Republican…I was pro-Trump until he started appointing neocons to positions like Secretary of State.
Russia’s military has been degraded. American combat deaths are at the lowest point in over 20 years.
And it only cost 500,000 dead Ukrainians and $100,000,000,000. Amazing that Trump managed to crush Russia's economy with nothing more than cheap energy, and he didn't blow up the economy to do it.
America is stronger than it’s been since the 1990s...
Sure it is.
Trump crushed our fracking industry in 2020 with a record amount of bankruptcies. Russia’s energy industry was strong when Trump was president and Gazprom even built a skyscraper HQ that looks like something out of the Avengers movies.
Trump crushed our fracking industry in 2020 with a record amount of bankruptcies.
2020 you say? Strange that there were so many bankruptcies that year--a year just like any other.
The thing is, cumulative inflation is 20.68%, disastrous foreign policy has brought us to the brink of WWIII, illegal immigration is costing American taxpayers $150,000,000,000 every year, and the national debt is increasing by $1,000,000,000,000 every hundred days. Nobody believes you.
So with immigration and gasoline prices you use 2020…but if they make Trump look bad you go with “buh Fauci”.
You whine about “inflation” while I am a property owner whose portfolio has doubled in value over the last several years…sorry you are a loser! And American combat deaths are at a 20 year low…why would I care about combat deaths in other countries??
Hey, Sam! Why don't you practice some "Effective Altruism" on yourself? Go, Man, Go!
🙂
😉
" In the wake of the October 2023 attacks on Israel, he called for bombing Iran even if there was no evidence that Iran was behind the attacks."
This is daft. Iran sponsors Hamas, a terrorist organization. Israel has the right to hold Iran accountable.
The US supported the Afgans when the Soviet Union was invading Afghanistan. Sent them missiles, guns, ammo, etc...
By your logic the Soviets should have nuked the US for supporting terrorists.
I don’t think we would have supported them had they targeted civilians. They became terrorists but at the time they targeted Soviet military in their country and not civilians.
There weren't many Russian civilians to bomb in Afganistan. If those iron age goat herders could have exported death to the Soviet Union you think they would have stood on principle and not killed themselves some Russian civilians? So you seriously think the CIA would have stopped backing them over dead Russian civilians?
It’s all about escalation and blowback. Heck, I support torture in principle but acknowledge that the blowback it produces probably makes it not worth it.
Iran clearly had nothing to do with last October. In particular, the timing was terrible for Iran. Iran funds Hamas but Hamas does not take orders from Tehran.
But the Mullahs of Iran fund Hamas becuse they support Hamas' goals, including the destruction of Israel and Jews.
Graham got what he wanted; former President Donald Trump tore up the deal that Obama had made, began a "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran, and brought in Graham as an adviser.
Donnie forced Iran to nuke up - which was like Viagra to Lindy's war boner.
You'd have to be an absolute moron to belie....oh wait, saw who wrote the post.
He’s so fucking stupid.
And a liar.
Yes, yes he is. And an unrepentant child molester.
You do know that that’s blasphemy, right? That’s almost as bad as saying that terrorist attacks are blowback from drones bombing weddings and blowing up schools.
It isn’t blasphemy. It’s just an incredibly stupid thing to say and not based in reality. The sort of moronic thing your drunk retarded ass would say.
Remember Trump’s first military order for SEAL Team 6 to assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends?? Apparently she called Trump a “poop head” and so she had it coming. And all it cost was a dead member of SEAL Team 6 killed by a babysitter defending the children in her care and the mission was a bust…I don’t remember reading about that in the Babysitter’s Club!
Shrike, this is pathetic. Just commit suicide already.
Trump then lied to the SEAL’s father what happened…great Commander in Chief. He knew what he signed up for, right?
You renting an AirBnB with shrike again? You keep falling for his bald narratives.
Do you know how long it took for Iran to violate the Obama deal? Less than a month. But thankfully Obama funded and legitimized it for them.
Bush/Cheney inadvertently strengthened Iran and weakened America. Bush/Cheney purposely strengthened China. You voted for them. lol.
I see we’re still plumbing the abyssal depths of Shrike’s retardity. And we still haven’t reached bottom.
That little girl called me a “poop head”, I order SEAL Team 6 to take her out! It’s my constitutional right as Commander in Chief!
President Don John Trump
"even if there was no evidence that Iran was behind the attacks"
What planet do people like Petti live on?
The whole article is shit. Exactly what we’ve come to expect from Reason.
Everything was fine until the Mullahs of Iran convinced Palestinians that apartheid and life under Israeli occupation wasn't such a good thing.
"no evidence that Iran was behind the attacks"
Evidence? Who needs it? Our war with Iraq was started without evidence and look how well that turned out.
But those babies being tossed out of incubators!
Oh, wait. That was bullshit.
Sadam has Weapons of Mass Destruction...
Fuck. Bullshit too.
I got nuttin.
"Evidence? Who needs it?"
^This is the mtruman credo.
This is all Biden’s fault. Never would have happened if Trump remained in office.
Is it also Biden’s fault you have a severe cases of ding dong don’t work?? Just hangs there like a coonhound’s jowls. 😉
You’re thinking of yourself. The only way you can get it up to watch child rape videos of little boys.
You are really obsessed with pedophilia!?! Hopefully you’ve triggered the FBI’s surveillance and they can keep an eye on you.
Yeah, war with Iran seems like an exceptionally bad idea, for many many many reasons.
First, why exactly is this a cause that is worth American blood?
Second, we can't afford it.
Third, that would be one way to guarantee widening the conflict far beyond even the Middle East.
Just because every attempt to topple a government and install one in our image has resulted in anarchy or despotism over the last three quarters of a century doesn’t mean it won’t work in Iran.
Well put.
Lol. Does this make sarcs transition to pushing leftist narratives blindly complete?
Sark is against all this stuff, and supports the people that are trying to make it happen. Simultaneously, he viciously attacks the people that want to stop them from doing it.
Well, shit, he did get himself an “atta boy” from M4e as well as white knighting the Pedo and Jeffy. What’s next, Sarc starts supporting misconstrueman and Misek?
More importantly, war with Iran would bring the world economy to a halt. Too many Americans are invested in a functioning world economy for a war to be an attractive option, no matter how corrupt our politicians are.
Destroying the regime in Iran would no more solve Israel's problems in Palestine than taking out Saddam Hussein did in 2003.
Republicans in Congress voted Lizard Cheney into leadership in January 2021…I still laugh about that.
I support any war in which we send the politicians that vote for it to fight first. I am willing to suffer any consequences of this as long as I get to watch Mitt Romney and Lindsey Graham parachute into Iran to kick ass. I'd also like to watch Chuck Schumer bring death to the Russians in person.
Your 3 points are accurate. Should we get entangled in some other misguided war, there is a reasonable possibility China will take that as a signal to take Taiwan. That could lead to WWIII. The first two point are so obvious only an elected politician would need them explained.
Too bad that wasn’t your standard in 2003 when you supported the dumbest war in history. Bush’s daughters partied in Austin while working class young people were sent to slaughter innocent Muslims.
The biggest difference in our war mongering over the past 20 years has been the absorption of the ''anti-war left' into the War Party. Leftists realized that they could pursue their social agenda internationally through these wars.
Hence we promoted women's rights in Afghanistan and oppose Putin in Ukraine because he hates gays.
My friend that wears Reagan/Bush shirts whined about “women and children” in Afghanistan in August 2021…methinks your analysis is flawed like everyone else commenting here other than me. ????
Oh, we’re energy dominant thanks to Putin’s asinine invasion and so it’s been great for America.
I'm heartened to find your lack of reasoning skills hasn't discouraged you from trying to up your troll game, woeful as it is. Oh, and don't worry about all the negative Nellies around here--they're only laughing at you because you're not very good at this.
The left is only ever anti-war when it's politically expedient.
Remember when you thought torturing and slaughtering innocent Muslims would make you happy?? Good times. 😉
I don't blame you for being twelve and stupid. You'll grow out of it.
No wonder I’ve caught your eye—you think I’m 12!! This comment section is like a NAMBLA convention and you are the president! 😉
So you're familiar with NAMBLA? Perhaps it's not too late for you to apologize to your victims and turn yourself in. You may deny you have a problem, but denial is the first step to recovery.
Once again, projection much??
"Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) has been one of the loudest voices in Congress calling for war over the past few months."
What an odd timeframe to limit your observation to. Did you mean to say decades?
Many of those calling for war with Iran can do so because all they do is talk and are not in a real position to take any actions. If they are so sure that war with Iran is the right course, why not vote for a declaration of war from Congress?
Iran poses no threat to the American homeland. They do pose a threat to soldiers and sailors overseas but we should be bringing troops home so our overseas footprint is as small as possible irrespective of Iran’s intentions.
I personally would have no issue with wiping Iran off the face of the earth so long as no ground troops were involved…but obviously we can’t do that because then China and Russia would flip out and think they were next and the escalation wouldn’t be worth it…because Iran poses no threat to the American homeland.
Iran has been at war with the U.S. ever since the mullahs came to power in Tehran. Recognizing and responding to that is long overdue.
Really? Then why was the Reagan Administration selling arms to Iran?
Just for the record, is it your opinion that the Reagan administration never made an error?
No, what I am saying is that our relationship with Iran is more complicated than simply being at war. What bothers me also is that opportunities to engage with Iran have been lost. We have forsaken dialogue with more moderate Iranians in our zeal to confront the religious conservatives.
Who runs Iran?
Many of the hawks calling for war today used to swear up and down that they weren't seeking war.
For the record, I've been 100% transparent with my position. I am absolutely seeking a war with Iran. They need to be exterminated. We should have exterminated them 45 years ago.
It's funny you bring up the boiling frog metaphor, because that's what this pattycake game we've been engaged in for half-century has gotten us - while they plot and scheme and sabotage and murder their way forward, slowly turning up the temperature with asymmetric warfare and using our own media to fight us - to the point that you've got Americans waving the flags and repeating the slogans of our mortal enemies who literally rape women to death and put babies into ovens.
But no, let's pretend it's the people being kinda wishy-washy in the language they use to rightfully defend the absolute need to exterminate Iran that are the problem.
"But no, let’s pretend it’s the people being kinda wishy-washy in the language they use to rightfully defend the absolute need to exterminate Iran that are the problem."
I would have thought the much bigger problem was the people of the rest of the planet. I read recently that they hand over some 40 to 50 billion dollars a year in exchange for Iranian oil and gas. Your idea to exterminate the people of Iran seems intemperate and impractical. Why not simply prevent them from exporting fossil fuels? Biden showed us the way when he had the pipeline carrying Russian gas to Germany destroyed. It wasn't necessary to exterminate the Russians to cripple their fossil fuel exports, so perhaps Iran should be similar.
Biden didn’t blow up Nord Stream…and NS2 is currently operable and thus if the EU decided to import natural gas from Russia they could make just as big profits exporting less natural gas to Europe. Ukraine probably blew it up and the day it was blown up was the day Russia came closest to winning the war because the hurricane in the Gulf could have veered towards Louisiana and spiked natural gas prices…which is why Biden initially blamed it on Russia because they had the most to gain from blowing up 3 of the pipelines while leaving one operable.
I read recently that they hand over some 40 to 50 billion dollars a year in exchange for Iranian oil and gas.
Yea, we should just take that. Iranians (or any of their proxies) aren't necessary to that equation.
Iran could easily bring a good portion of the world wide flow of oil to a standstill. Imagine the consequences. The price of oil will rise. In a way, they don't need nukes, they have it within their power to bring down the civilized world by shutting off the straits. Trouble is with nukes you have a specific target, a city perhaps, while shutting off the oil affects the entire civilized world indiscriminately. It's also a kind of suicidal act. The desperate kind of thing religious zealots might do if they knew the end was coming and decided to take us all down with them.
America is now the biggest fossil fuel producer and the biggest LNG exporter. Everything oil does can be replaced by natural gas and EVs. So natural gas be transformed into kerosene and diesel and EVs are essentially natural gas vehicles…and we have more natural gas than we could ever use AND it’s cheap AF!!! Iran is China’s problem and not our problem thanks to the fracking industry.
Trouble is with nukes
You keep talking about things I haven’t said.
Like you’ve predisposed yourself to the notion that war equals nukes.
Like some kind of child. Some kind of grossly ignorant retarded child.
Your plan is to exterminate the people of Iran and take their oil. Nuclear explosions over their cities would be the way to go. It would be quick and no American need die. If you have any idea on how you achieve your plan without using nukes, I'd like to hear them. You don't seem to have put much thought into this. It's all just emotional bluster.
Your plan is to exterminate the people of Iran and take their oil.
You say so. I've said no such thing.
I said to exterminate Iran and take the oil. You've instead presented a different argument that you then try to counter. Like you're talking to yourself. Like a crazy person.
Or, as I said, a grossly ignorant retarded child.
Nuclear explosions over their cities would be the way to go.
You say so. I’ve made no such claim.
Has it dawned upon you yet that you’re actually debating yourself here? I may as well not even be in the equation.
I agree, but I wouldn’t sacrifice one American life to exterminate them. And that includes blowback that gets an American killed. The reality is they aren’t our problem and Bush/Cheney did the “world police” thing and it was an unmitigated disaster. So Trump/Biden are on the right track—reduce our Middle East footprint and focus on other issues.
Well lucky for us we live in an age of smartbombs and drone warfare. (And soon, if we let Boston Dynamics and that crazy space man do their thing, robots.)
I agree that “world police” (and “nation building”) were unmitigated disasters. I’m advocating neither. But they are our problem, as evidenced by the fact that all their newest homegrown useful idiots are out blocking traffic and shouting “Death to the Great Satan, Death to America!” while their enemy agents and combatants are waltzing through our open border and setting up shop.
We definitely need to reduce our footprint. It should just be one, that when lifted leaves nothing of the nation behind but ash. (And plundered resources. Especially the oil, which we should just pump directly into our depleted strategic reserves.)
So you’re going to enlist tomorrow then?
You’re a piece of fucking shit
Language.
Also, your question makes two presumptions: 1) that I'm eligible; and 2) that I haven't already. Both of which I'll address by gazing off into the distance and whistling nonchalantly, leaving you to base your reply on pure speculation. Like an idiot.
But I will thank you for the opening, and ask you the same question: will you? Do you care at all about the future of America enough to enlist? If not, why?
"I agree that “world police” (and “nation building”) were unmitigated disasters."
Ditch the world police bullshit, sure, how about world crooked cop instead.
I didn't bring the term into the conversation. Are you sure you replied to the right person?
Yes. I checked the quote. From 'AT.'
Check again. Maybe try using that thing between your ears. It might hurt on account of atrophy, but power through it please.
Does he remain Lindsey Graham, accountable for his past standing -- or has his he begun to lose his identity to a machine of greater power to out-define or re-define? Can no one call him to accountability for apparent shifts in positions of policy on Iran? Were these the final crunches and twists of the machine's gears churning out a new political player left to his own devices without real-world input?
Stupidest thread yet on Reason, just horrible.
Agreed. We don’t have either appease the Mullahs, nor do we have to turn Iran into a sheet of glowing glass.
All we have to do is:
Destroy Iran’s capacity to wage war by undercutting their oil revenues with our own petroleum production;
By destroying their facilities for producing munitions, including Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Weapons (NBC);
and
By giving diplomatic support to anyone who overthrows the Mullahs and replaces them with a Secular, Free, Capitalist polity.
Everything could be done by full justification of the Mullah’s bloody record at home and abroad, can be done within Constitutional bounds, and could be done in short order if we had the will.
It is said that only a great fool fights a war on two fronts. The US is looking at... let's see, brewing trouble with China, building to war with Russia while supporting the Ukraine, supporting Israel against all comers and taking on Iran. FIVE fronts! Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of all fools fights a war on 5 fronts.