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Strippers

Florida Lawmakers Vote To Raise Stripping Age to 21

Employing an 18- to 20-year-old at an adult venue could mean 15 years in prison, even if the young person used a fake ID.

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 3.11.2024 11:44 AM

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Women's high heels on stage | Photo by <a href="https://unsplash.com/@rexcuando?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash">Eric Nopanen</a> on <a href="https://unsplash.com/photos/woman-in-gray-platform-stilettos-72eYgGJVzQM?utm_content=creditCopyText&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=unsplash">Unsplash</a>
(Photo by Eric Nopanen on Unsplash )

Florida celebrated International Women's Day last week by treating the state's young women like children. On Friday, state lawmakers approved a bill banning 18- to 20-year-olds from being strippers or from working in any other capacity at an adult entertainment venue.

Like a similar bill passed in Texas in 2021, the Florida bill claims to be a blow against human trafficking. As with so many attempts to "protect" people from sex work, this one has major potential to backfire and make abuse and exploitation worse.

It's also part of a growing movement across the U.S. to push up the boundaries of childhood, making all sorts of things once legal for 18- to 20-year-olds now off limits.

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Felony Failing To Spot a Fake ID

Under the new measure, Florida adults under age 21 will be barred from working at strip clubs, burlesque establishments, adult bookstores, or any other businesses that fit under Florida's definition of adult entertainment. Currently, people can do so legally upon turning 18.

On March 5, the Florida Senate voted nearly unanimously to raise this minimum age to 21. Only three senators voted no. A few days later, only three members of the Florida House voted against it.

The measure is now with Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis. If he signs it, the law will take effect July 1.

Young adult strippers and adult venue staff would not themselves be subject to penalty. Rather, the bill would make it a crime to knowingly employ, contract with, or otherwise permit someone under age 21 to work in these businesses.

Doing so would be a second-degree felony—punishable by up to 15 years in prison and/or a fine of up to $10,000 if the young person shows any part of their butt, (female) breast, pubic area, or genitals "with less than a fully opaque covering," or shows "covered male genitals in a discernibly turgid state." It would be a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment of up to a year and/or a fine of up to $1,000, if the young person remains fully clothed.

And it doesn't matter if an establishment is tricked by a fake ID.

"For purposes of this section, a person's ignorance of another person's age or a person's misrepresentation of his or her age may not be raised as a defense in a prosecution for a violation of this section," the bill states. (It also says the employment must be done "knowingly," so it's unclear exactly how these two standards can coexist, unless you take knowingly to simply mean "you knew the person worked there" but not necessarily "you knew they were under 21.")

A person who uses a fake ID to get a job wouldn't be punished at all, mind you; only the folks who fail to catch this deception are in trouble. It's a topsy-turvy view of criminal liability, in which someone who intends to break the law is innocent and someone trying to follow it is guilty.

Basically, the only way for an adult business to avoid liability under this law is to run background checks on all workers or contractors or avoid allowing anyone who seems even remotely young to work.

Worse still, liability doesn't stop at the person who does the hiring or runs the business: It extends to "an owner, a manager, an employee, or a contractor" who lets the young adult work. Theoretically, this means anyone employed at a strip club where an under-21-year-old worker slipped through the cracks could be liable for not reporting it.

'Sex Slavery' Panic, Again

Florida lawmakers say the measure is meant to stop sex trafficking. (Sex trafficking is legally defined as prostitution involving force, fraud, coercion, or minors.) Young adults working at strip clubs are "likely to be trafficked and sold into prostitution and sex slavery," Rep. David Borrero (R–Doral) said during legislative debate. "We ought to be on the side of young girls who are barely legal."

But neither Doral nor anyone else marshaled evidence that strip clubs are sites of "sex slavery," nor that requiring strippers to be 21 or older could put a dent in this supposed scourge.

Even if sex trafficking is an issue at strip clubs, it's unclear by what mechanism barring young adults from stripping would stop it. The whole thing with criminals is that they don't tend to care what the law says. Are we really supposed to believe that someone willing to force someone else into prostitution will suddenly stop because their victim can't legally work at a strip club?

If a young woman is being coerced into sex work, she will almost certainly still be victimized after this law takes effect. But now that will take place in a more private venue, with fewer people around who might help the victim.

Likewise, if a young woman is independently determined to do sex work, this likely won't stop her. But instead of working in a relatively safe setting such as an official strip club, she may choose to work at an underground venue go into full-service sex work (which is illegal) instead. That is, she'll turn to black market options that increase the likelihood of exploitation or abuse.

I've heard people argue that the issue is actually underage people working in strip clubs, and that raising the minimum age will make it easier to stop this. But again, no one produces evidence that underage strippers are really an issue.

In any event, cops are still going to have to investigate people's actual ages to suss out the validity of any reports that a stripper looks too young. Only now, "too young" will be an expanded category, giving authorities more impetus to drop in for age checks.

Infantilizing Young Adults

In short: Laws like these do nothing to plausibly "stop human trafficking," and they may make it worse. Meanwhile they give the authorities more power to police strip clubs and the people who work at them. Even when a business isn't doing anything wrong, cops can always claim a "tip" that someone looked young to go in and check the identities of people working there.

And there's an even simpler reason why these laws are no good: They impinge on the freedom of young adults for no good reason. Just because some people would prefer a society where no 19-year-old tries to dance sexy for money, it doesn't follow that no 19-year-old should have the right to do so.

"This is just another way for women to be controlled," said Rep. Michele Rayner (D–St. Petersburg) during the debate about the bill last week.

It's also another way to keep defining adulthood up, so that people previously granted most of the rights and responsibilities of adulthood are increasingly defined as legally and morally equivalent to children. These days, 18- to 20-year-olds are often barred not only from drinking legally but also smoking, stripping, and vaping.

These bans should be successful, considering how well the minimum drinking age has stopped young people from consuming alcohol…right? AHAHAHAHA. If anything, setting a minimum age of 21 to legally purchase or drink alcohol has made alcohol consumption among young people more risky. But like the people who look at the failed war on drugs and think we just need to drug war harder, some people see the disaster that is banning college students and other young adults from drinking and think: Yeah, let's try that with more things.

It's madness. But infantilization of young adults is all the rage these days. And then we wonder why so many of them are depressed, anxious, or convinced it's everyone else's job to make them feel "safe."

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NEXT: Cheering From the Press Box

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

StrippersSex WorkOvercriminalizationSex TraffickingHuman TraffickingCriminal LawFloridaRon DeSantis
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  1. Incunabulum   1 year ago

    oh dear, how sad, never mind.

    1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

      ENB needs to focus on getting us our sandwiches.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   1 year ago

        You’d better check her ID.

    2. Mark Twine   1 year ago

      Makes perfect sense to me. It's illegal to prance around shakin' cakes for the nice gennulmens, but at 18 you can get airtight on a porn movie set (plus one in each hand). They're from the government, and they want to do good to us.

      1. Randy Sax   1 year ago

        It really is kinda hilarious that sex for money is illegal, unless.... you film it and sell the film. Weird loophole.

        1. Jerry B.   1 year ago

          I remember Al the 18 to 20 year olds who were with me in Viet Nam. Maybe they shouldn’t have been there, exposed to the Philippina strippers in the EM club.

          1. markm23   1 year ago

            How old were those strippers?

        2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          It's a wonderful more pimps don't take advantage of that little loophole. Just build your whorehouse with lots of places for hidden cameramen behind one way mirrors and such. When the cops come to raid show them the camera men and explain you don't sell sex, you sell the John a tape of him having sex.

          Sure, the overhead I higher but the lack of a perp walk and pictures in the newspaper would make it worth the extra cost. Er.. for the Betamax tape of your porn debut of course.

    3. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

      It’s more important to have a maximum age for strippers.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   1 year ago

        Usually the market sees to that.

      2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Spandex is a privilege. Not a right.

  2. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

    "Well this is outrageous. Where else can 65 year old men leer at 18-year-olds publicly? The lapdance is always sweeter when the stripper is crying" - t. Pluggo

    1. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

      In some places, you could do a bit more than leer.

      1. Michael Ejercito   1 year ago

        Like what?

        1. Stuck in California   1 year ago

          Well, they might have a nice buffet.

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   1 year ago

            Sandwiches?

      2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        I never got the idea of strippers. Paying to see them take some clothes off... no matter how much you spend and how much money you make they are going back to their trailer with a guy who has a spider tattooed on his face, meth teeth and no job.

        Women who strip clearly don't have a good relationship with their father.

  3. sarcasmic   1 year ago

    So much for strip joints putting women through college.

    1. Eeyore   1 year ago

      I guess they can still get a pimp and do some hooking on the street.

      1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

        I'm serious. When I was in college you'd see ladies wearing t-shirts from the local strip club bragging about how many of their employees paid for their degrees by showing their titties.

        1. Quicktown Brix   1 year ago

          If only this was Biden's debt forgiveness plan.

          1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

            Showing titties can get men to forgive lots of things.

            1. LIBertrans   1 year ago

              Not 81-year-old Florida senators.

        2. Moderation4ever   1 year ago

          Among famous urban legends for the City of Madison is this one. A businessman was in town for a conference. He and colleague had dinner and then decided to go to the Dangle, a club operating in late 60's and 70's. Well, the man and his friend are enjoying the show when he sees his daughter, attending the local college, is one of the strippers. After the show the man confronts his daughter who explains that college cost more than he thinks and she making ends meet. Embarrassed the man cut a larger check for his daughter college expenses. She takes the money spends the summer in Paris and goes back to stripping in the fall semester.

        3. Eeyore   1 year ago

          I always thought the tits were just marketing and the paycheck was giving handies in the back room.

    2. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

      you paint that as somehow a good thing. But wrong on two counts
      1) No job you would be going to college for would relate to that kind of work
      2) College students who have jobs are much less likely to graduate than their privileged peers, shocking study finds

      1. CE   1 year ago

        So therefore make it even harder for them to graduate, by taking away a well paying evening job option?

        1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          As Chris Rock said there are no clear heels on campus. No strippers with a heart of gold and no medical school students paying for their degree by swinging on a pole.

          I've known too many strippers over the years. They live in trailers with sketchy dudes who have too many tattoos and no jobs.

          1. Zeb   1 year ago

            It's possible your experience is not typical. I've known not very many strippers. But the few I have known do not meet that stereotype (though I don't doubt that many do). They weren't dilligently working their way through college either. But sometimes people do get over their wild youth and get their shit together.

            1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              No doubt you are right in your personal experiences. However a stereotype exists because so many people in a given group live down to that stereotype.

              For every single mom on welfare who is using it as a safety net while getting an associates degree in something useful to get back on her feet because her husband died young and didn't have sufficient life insurance to cover her and the kids there are ten welfare queens with three generations of welfare lifers living in the same section 8 apartment.

              I suspect my experience is closer to the norm because so many people live down to their stereotype. But there must be a fraction who seek to better themselves while using their youth and beauty to put food on the table.

    3. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      Barefoot, illiterate and pregnant is the new Orango.

  4. Incunabulum   1 year ago

    >considering how well the minimum drinking age has stopped young people from consuming alcohol…right?

    I mean, it pretty much has. In a way total prohibition hasn't done for drugs. How many 16 year olds are binge drinking every weekend?

    1. Sometimes a Great Notion   1 year ago

      Me and most of my HS class, circa 1998.

    2. JoeJoetheIdiotCircusBoy   1 year ago

      me and most of my class circa 2000...and most of the ones that weren't were stoned out of their minds, tripping balls, and/or tweaking out.

    3. soldiermedic76   1 year ago

      I drank more before I turned 21 than I did after I turned 21 (fuck, our first sergeant basically gave us permission as long as we didn't fuck up and make him come in on his weekend to deal with it).

      1. soldiermedic76   1 year ago

        Of course, soldiers being soldiers, it was pretty much guaranteed someone was going to fuck up at some point.

    4. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      No. Kids get booze with minimal difficulty. They did when I was a teen in the 80s and they did when my son was a teen in the 2010s. There are always adults willing to buy for kids. Some because they don't care and others because they charge a commission.

      1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

        Generally it's because they hope to have sex with the kids.

        1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          That doesn't matter. The kids get the booze.

          1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

            It doesn't matter if kids get fucked by men who bought them alcohol?

            1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              If that's what the kids are willing to trade for their case of cheep beer then so be it. Most just want money enough to buy their preferred booze. That is based on personal experience. None of my friends had to perform sex acts for beer. We just had to pay for the wino's Popov Vodka.

              1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

                That is based on personal experience.

                I actually knew a boy who was raped by the man who was supplying him with beer and weed. So, I guess our "personal experience" colors our view of this.

    5. Zeb   1 year ago

      I found it easier to get weed and psychedelics in high school (mid 90s) and also easier to stay out of trouble staying away from the drinking scenes. But it was hardly difficult to get alcohol if that's what you wanted.

  5. Eeyore   1 year ago

    Are they still allowed to walk around naked as long as you don't see them get naked?

    1. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      Hans Christian Andersen and small boys will nevertheless see that nakedness. But the Florida Senate can prolly be counted on to again vote that blinding is neither a cruel nor an unusual form of law enforcement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinding_(punishment)#In_mythology_and_religious_law

  6. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

    So ENB is put out that Florida is treating women below the age of majority as minors? Remember, 18 to 20 year olds are not allowed to drink alcohol in the strip clubs they might have been working in.

    1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

      It's really hard to get upset over the vote unless you're really invested in watching teenagers strip.

      1. Ersatz   1 year ago

        ^THIS^

        of all the governmental overreaches... this one doesnt rank so high on the outrage-omometer

        1. Roberta   1 year ago

          True, but it's always possible to shave the outrages finely enough to pass the filter. This one's just the margin of the general movement against sex. They're even taking the word away and genericizing it into "gender".

          1. SQRLSY One   1 year ago

            I promise you that I won’t be offended if’n ye ask to “have gender” with me… BUTT, you had BETTER use my preferred pronoun!!!

            (Zey ALL want to cum to they's and zine place to have gender with ZEEEE!!!) ... There, did I do that at least KINDA right?

          2. soldiermedic76   1 year ago

            In my experience,most dancers are shaved. Oh you weren't talking about that kind of shaved.

      2. Liberty_Belle   1 year ago

        Nah , it’s very easy to get upset that the government man thinks that I need saving from my own decisions on where to work. Ever think maybe young women want to work at a high earning potential , low skill job ? While I wouldn’t do it (I don’t even like speaking in public & sure as heck would take a firing squad rather than strip); the fact remains that it should be every woman’s choice if she wants to or not. Stop trying force choices on us, we can /should / and will make our own choices for ourselves.

        This is literally “the Patriarchy” running around trying to decide what is best for you whether you like it / agree with it or not. Keep government out of my private decisions.

        1. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

          Which part is the "Patriarchy"? The legislators passing a law saying that you must be of age to work in a strip club or the middle aged dude going to pay a twenty for a teenager to grind her ass on his crotch for 4 minutes or so?

          1. Liberty_Belle   1 year ago

            The government telling me what job I can and cannot have: Wife, Handmaiden, or a Martha.

            1. Mickey Rat   1 year ago

              We go to the feminist's favorite dom/sub fantasy.

              1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

                They actually LARP as handmaidens. It's some weird persecution/50 Shades of Grey fantasy rather than a cautionary tale.

                The equivalent of guys who pay to have women step on them with high heels.

        2. Nobartium   1 year ago

          Women who want to be sluts don't deserve much respect.

          1. Liberty_Belle   1 year ago

            Politicians and authoritarians who want to force their world view on others don't deserve much respect, either.

            1. Nobartium   1 year ago

              Vote them out then.

              Failing that, move away from their influence.

              1. Zeb   1 year ago

                Good luck with that. There is some practical utility to that advice, but it's a pretty shitty take if you actually care about respect for basic rights. And being a slut if that's what you want to do is a pretty basic right.

          2. Ghatanathoah   1 year ago

            Why not? They're making an honest living by doing a job that brings a lot of people joy. That seems pretty respectable to me.

            1. Nobartium   1 year ago

              They are selling their bodies.

              There is no intrinsic nobility in that, and there never will be.

              After all, do you support your future or existent children doing so?

              1. Harvey Mosley   1 year ago

                Do all actors, singers, and dancers sell their bodies? If not, what's the difference?

                1. soldiermedic76   1 year ago

                  Yes, actors and athletes do. Singing is more an art, but yes, I guess you can say they're selling their bodies. Don't have a lot of respect for most of them either. Doesn't mean I should ban them, but their worth to society is pretty low in my estimation.

                2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                  In Rome, back in the days of the Republic, actors were on the same social level as prostitutes.

                  1. The Margrave of Azilia   1 year ago

                    Likewise in Louis XIV's France.

                    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                      Think of how better the world would be if we continued that fine tradition today. Who in their right mind would give a shit what a whore thinks about the environment.

              2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   1 year ago

                It offends your moral sensibility so it should be illegal?

                Fuck off.

              3. TheReEncogitationer   1 year ago

                Don't all physical laborers doing any job do the same?

                And where is the "nobility" of unpaid internships for politicians, lawyers, or media companies, or monatic work with Vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience under The Vatican, all of these being the scummiest people to work with ever?

                Stripping and prostitution are both better economicslly and morally than working for these low-lifes!

              4. Azathoth!!   1 year ago

                Everyone who works for someone besides themself sells their body.

                The only reason anyone has a problem with their kids doing any work they want -including stripping and the like-- is because so many moral scolds control too much of the public discourse.

                Absent the sneers and attacks of prudes the world would be a very different place

              5. Zeb   1 year ago

                So what? Who says people need to be engaged in some noble pursuit to have their rights respected? If you want your children to do respectable things, then don't be a shitty parent and they'll most likely be alright. And perhaps for some minority of people it is possible to have a good and happy life being a stripper or a prostitute.

                1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                  Very true. Strippers as a rule don't have a very good relationship with their parents.

        3. BYODB   1 year ago

          Kind of agree, kind of disagree.

          If an 18 year old can decide on her own to terminate a human life, this doesn't seem like a bridge too far. It's another aspect of the 'my body my choice' agenda, although unfortunately too many women don't extend that logic to drugs or decisions they find distasteful (decisions like stripping for a living, amusingly).

          To be totally honest, this is less of a patriarchy thing and more of a 'women against women' thing in my view. Talk to a liberal woman about abortion and they're all for it, but as soon as you veer into their daughters stripping for a living suddenly all that support dries right up.

          If it was a patriarchy issue, one would expect men to generally be in favor of young strippers...right?

          1. DesigNate   1 year ago

            Patriarchy is whenever a man in power does something a woman doesn’t like.

            Just ignore that women are 50% of the population, and hold all manner of powerful positions.

            1. LIBertrans   1 year ago

              And finally got the 19th Amendment! Let's see how many take Marjorie Greene Teeth as a role model and political advisor.

          2. Liberty_Belle   1 year ago

            Not necessarily in favor of young strippers. Patriarchy doesn't always mean hostile misogyny . A pack of well-meaning know-it-all's with White Knight syndrome is just as patriarchal as a pack of "get-back-in-the-kitchen" types. It's men making decisions on behalf of women instead of letting them make their own decisions... especially when there is no public concern, just a private choice that only affects the individual such as where or where not to be gainfully employed; I'm generally against anyone doing that, regardless of sex.

            When I see bodies of government that are 70% male dictating what should be a personal decision by the individual, it gets my hackles up. If it was more 50-50 , I wouldn't call it patriarchy ... but I would still say it's wrong and none of their business.

            https://cypp.rutgers.edu/florida/#gender-breakdown

            1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

              "Patriarchy doesn’t always mean hostile misogyny"

              Patriarchy means a system in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line. Every other definition is generally pseudo-scientific bullshit.

            2. BYODB   1 year ago

              I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am saying that women tend to have more of a problem with this kind of thing than men do.

              Generally speaking, women are far more vicious and judgmental of other women than men. I've seen it personally many, many times and it's especially applicable when speaking about matters of sexuality and especially against younger women.

            3. Zeb   1 year ago

              From what I can tell, "patriarchy" as it is used today just means all of the existing power structures.

        4. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          I'd argue lowering the age to drink makes more sense than raising the age to strip.

      3. MasterThief   1 year ago

        18, 21, whatever age we decide is considered a legal adult is when this should be legal. Frankly, I find justification in barring girls from stripping and getting railed on camera for money until they are out of high school a couple of years.
        In my state you can't buy a handgun, tobacco, or alcohol until you're 21. I'd say that if you can't do those things then you sure as fuck shouldn't be voting, stripping, doing porn, etc. The government needs to set an age for adulthood and full rights and stick to it. This partial bullshit isn't justified

        1. Nazi-Chipping Warlock   1 year ago

          This is my take. Pick an age and stick with it. They're either adults or they're not.

          And at this point, I'm old enough that I don't much care what age they pick, it's going to be lower than mine.

      4. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

        ONly someone without children would see it that way.

      5. freedomwriter   1 year ago

        Or if you believe in freedom. I do not go to strip clubs and I do not tell adults what they can and cannot do.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   1 year ago

      As they serve alcohol, the patrons probably can't be under 21. If the patrons can't be under 21, then why should those on stage be under 21?

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Grocery stores sell wine and beer, sometime hard liquor, yet they hire school aged kids to work there. They just don't handle the booze. Either as stock people or at checkout.

  7. TrickyVic (old school)   1 year ago

    Well I guess it's going to take longer for girls to get to college.

    1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

      Nah. Onlyfans probably pays better anyway.

      1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

        Safer.

        1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

          And more scalable

    2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      FLASH! Florida Senate Raises Female Enrollment Requirement To Age 40.

  8. Dan S.   1 year ago

    People can only act on the information that's available to them. That's a basic fact of reality. Have these "ignorance... or a person's misrepresentation... may not be raised as a defense" laws ever been directly challenged on that ground? I wonder what the Supreme Court would say about he matter.

  9. Roberta   1 year ago

    It's just the marginal manifestation of the movement to keep people from any sexual interest that distracts them from repopulating Europe after the plagues and crusades. Why young people in this case? Because it's an easy enough chunk for them to bite off.

    Even the wars on drugs are just magickal extensions of or substitutes for the war on sex.

    1. BYODB   1 year ago

      It's a war on straight sex in particular if you think about. Weird sex kinks are celebrated, straight sex or having kids is destruction of the planet.

      1. Roberta   1 year ago

        But that's a recent thing. The war on sex kinks is of much longer duration and still going on under the surface. The pope didn't want anything that might attract people away from making babies to fight in the crusades.

    2. sarcasmic   1 year ago

      Puritanism — The Haunting Fear That Someone, Somewhere, May Be Happy

      1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

        Sarc's happiness:

        "Yes, a lap dance is so much better when the stripper is cryin'
        Well I find it's quite a thrill
        When she grinds me against her will
        Yes, a lap dance is so much better when the stripper is cryin'
        Day or so had passed when I popped the clutch,
        Gave the tranny a spin and slid on into
        The Stinky Pinky Gulp N' Guzzle Big Rig Snooze-A-Stop.
        There I was browsin' through the latest issue of "Throb",
        When I saw Bambi starin' at me from the back of a milk carton.
        Well, my heart just dropped.
        So, I decided to do what any good Christian would.
        You can not imagine how difficult it is to hold a half gallon of moo juice
        And polish the one-eyed gopher when you're doin' seventy-five
        In an eighteen-wheeler.
        I never thought missing children could be so sexy.
        Did I say that out loud?"

        1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

          Looked it up. Only tune of theirs I knew was the Bad Touch. Funny.

          The Dead Milkmen did a documentary about your dad.

          I’m gonna beat my wife
          I’m gonna beat my wife now
          Gonna smack her with a lead pipe
          Gonna smack her with a 2×4
          Run her over with a Brink’s truck
          Chase her down with a lawn mower

          Next time leave a link to the song. I bet you fuck men in the ass and don’t have the courtesy to give them a reach around.

          1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

            Sorry Sarcasmic, but unlike in your childhood, my parents loved each other and never divorced.
            Now, shall we ask your ex-wife about wife-beating?

            1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

              He was never married. Just another drunken delusion. His brains are headed to Bidenville.

          2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

            Useta be only Texans were that. Now Flaridians who present as male rednecks are self-brushing with the same tar, AND adding flamingo feathers.

      2. SRG2   1 year ago

        As Macaulay said, the Puritans opposed bear-baiting, not because it brought pain to the bear, but because it brought pleasure to the spectators.

        1. Mother's Lament   1 year ago

          The Puritans were right. The pain to the bear was not a matter of moral indifference, but the pleasure of the spectators was grotesque and sufficient reason for abolishing that entertainment. Just like somebody enjoying watching a rape or child abuse.

          1. SRG2   1 year ago

            The Puritans were right to disapprove of the pleasure in the specific instance but morally wrong not to consider the bear. And Macaulay's point was, I think, more broadly that it was pleasure in general that the Puritans disapproved of, and he chose a pithy way of saying so.

            1. The Margrave of Azilia   1 year ago

              I remember reading about a case in Puritan Massachusetts where the church ordered a couple married members to have sex – they were attempting to be abstemious with each other, and the church said no, they needed to do their marital duties.

              It was the Hester Prynne stuff they objected to, not sex as such.

        2. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

          Macauley was wrong. He didn't see the moral background of sumptuary laws , at all

          Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be having a good time.

    3. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      The once-proud Methodist White Terror is today's doddering Senile Anti-Sex League.

  10. Nobartium   1 year ago

    It's also part of a growing movement across the U.S. to push up the boundaries of childhood, making all sorts of things once legal for 18- to 20-year-olds now off limits.

    As lifespans increase, this is unavoidable.

    1. BYODB   1 year ago

      I don't think that's true though. Just because I might live to be 100 instead of 60 doesn't change my maturity at age 18.

      First world living and reliance on the trappings thereof might make an 18 year old much less mature than one 100 years ago though.

  11. GroundTruth   1 year ago

    The age of majority needs to be decided on, and enforced, uniformly. Either 18 or 21 or 26. Doesn't matter which to me, but pick one. Then that's it. Contracts, marriage (w/o parental approval), abortion, military service, stripping, health care responsibility, drinking, gun ownership. The whole nine yards. Pick one!

    1. DesigNate   1 year ago

      18 works fine for me.

    2. Jim Logajan   1 year ago

      Why do others get to choose when another person may exercise their freedoms? Because that has always been the way it has been done?

      1. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

        No, and you contradict yourself. Anything promoting decay of marriages or family or even the maturing of future citizens should concern everybody.
        YOu call it freedom only because it is was you demand to be free about. But that is hardly justification. Am I free to pee on the sidewalk, sleep on a park bench, eat what I want?
        On that last score you must be too young to have seen this :

        LOCAL NEWS
        Bloomberg Strikes Again: NYC Bans Food Donations To The Homeless
        newyork
        March 19, 2012 / 8:33 PM EDT / CBS New York

        NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) -- Mayor Michael Bloomberg's food police have struck again!

        Outlawed are food donations to homeless shelters because the city can't assess their salt, fat and fiber content, reports CBS 2's Marcia Kramer.

        So there freedom really really hurt the homeless. I want to give them food, they need food and would accept it and millionaire Blomberg talks sht about salt and fiber content.,,.,Now that shiould show you how wrong you are 😉

      2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

        True Conservatism™

    3. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      That makes no sense at all. People mature in different ways at different times. The ages at which the average person is competent to get married, use alcohol or drugs, sign a contract, join the army, make health care decisions, serve on a jury, etc., have nothing to do with each other.

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        True. But how does an Army Recruiter or a Liquor Store clerk determine maturity?

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          They don't, for individuals. We set standards based on what the usual level of maturity is for people of a certain age. That's the best we can do.

          1. Bmk149   1 year ago

            But wouldn’t that violate the individual freedom and liberties of some under whatever subjective arbitrary age is defined by the state while allowing some others who are above that age but may not be mature enough to handle the responsibility. Or maybe you do you not hold the value of individual freedom and liberty in high regard. Which is fine BUT then why post on a libertarian forum except to be a contrarian troll.

  12. jimc5499   1 year ago

    So Elizabeth, do you support lowering the age to drink alcohol to 18? How about the RIGHT to own and carry a gun? Then there's the ability to buy and use tobacco.
    On the flip side, I was stationed in Florida in the 80's. There was a topless bar that I frequented. The girls that were dancing went to a local college. The reason that they danced there was that the owner ran a totally clean place. He'd even have one of his bartenders load a bunch of sailors in his truck and take them back to their base. One girl that I dated told me that she could cover her rent and put money back for tuition after a Navy payday.

    1. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

      But that only proves that it is the easiest way out. You say nothing about strip clubs except to give reasons why we should overlook that they have no basis in themselves. So you say "Okay, but since somebody can make rent off it, it must be okay" I mean, REALLY ??????

    2. Cloudbuster   1 year ago

      This has to be the most naive thing I've ever read.

    3. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      I'm not going to call you a liar. I am willing to accept as true what you say. Your experience has to be almost unique in an industry of meth addicts and girls with daddy issues.

  13. SRG2   1 year ago

    Florida intentionally undermining one of its major industries.

    Can we now expect Florida legislators to pass a law to stop trying children as adults?

    1. SRG2   1 year ago

      Traditional industries rather than major industries, to be accurate.

  14. SIV   1 year ago

    Child labor laws need to go! Not that it applies here because 18 y/os are adults

    1. In Canis Credimus   1 year ago

      It's funny how MAGAs want to bring back the London work houses of the 1800s for kids but also want to take away more rights from adults. Smells a little like facism to me...

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        I voted for Trump twice and will do so again of the GOP doesn't manage to torpedo him in the convention somehow.

        If you want to watch 14 year old girls strip for you I wont get in your way. I also won't get in the way of their fathers when they come to cut off your dick and shove it down your throat.

        1. SRG2   1 year ago

          No-one here is advocating for 14yo girls stripping. What have laws changing the age from 18 to 21 to do with 14yo's? Do you agree with the legislation?

          I note that Trump was quite happy to go into the changing room of under-18 girls, but I guess you don't care about that.

      2. DesigNate   1 year ago

        That’s because you don’t know what fascism is.

        It’s ok little buddy, most people don’t.

    2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      Suuure they are... in SOME States.

  15. Jim Logajan   1 year ago

    The government owns your ass. And pretty much the rest of "your" body. So it gets to set the rules on when and where that ass or any portion of "your" body may be displayed to others. /s

    1. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      Thank Anthony Comstock, True Christian™ book-burning Republican.

      1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

        Nah. It’s the democrats that want to ban everything. Your just too stupid and senile to understand that.

        1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          Depends on the Era. In the 80s and 90s it was the religious right burning stuff. D&D books, rock and roll albums, books they considered Satanic. Usual stuff. I watched them do it. It's why I'm an Atheist and don't trust religious people.

  16. Dillinger   1 year ago

    what 18 once was is not what 18 is now I'm not certain it's not a bad idea

    1. I woke up when Hillary talked about Reconstruction   1 year ago

      Wow a triple negative to avoid having an opinion !!!!
      I'm not certain
      That it is not
      a bad idea
      Call the Logic Ambulance, NOW

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Fuck... I don't remember how to diagram a sentence. Where is a liberal arts major when you need one!

        1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   1 year ago

          At the strip club, of course.

          1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

            Good one. I suppose it pays better than McDonald's or Starbucks and today's women are all about calling sex work "female empowerment".

        2. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

          On welfare?

    2. Zeb   1 year ago

      Wouldn't further infantilizing 18 year olds just make it worse?

      1. Bmk149   1 year ago

        Bingo. Funny to think from a biological perspective and throughout most of human history, once you reached puberty you were considered a full member of the tribe. You had all the same rights and freedoms as well as the same responsibilities and accountability as the other members. Today's youth as so infantilized and babied it's ridiculous. And it's getting worse. Just look at the number of man children in thier 30's and 40's today. Perpetual childhood just like the state wants it.

  17. Ron   1 year ago

    funny thing is Florida being a republican state if it had lowered the age form 21 to 18 we would also be hearing about how awful missoginist Ron Desantis is on every channel out there

    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      You are not wrong. No matter what Ron does he's in the spotlight and will get a ration of shit. Not that he isn't earning that ration now and again.

      1. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

        He’s still a million times better than Charlie Crist.

  18. CE   1 year ago

    Once again denying lucrative job opportunities to those without a college degree. I thought we were past that....

    But there should be one age of adulthood. Old enough to vote, old enough to get drafted, old enough to drink or for anything else. I'd make it 19 for everything, not 18 or 21, so everyone would be out of high school first. (Including driving a car, 16 and 17 year olds are dangerous.)

    Or better yet, let each state set the age of adulthood laws, since that's what the Constitution requires.

    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      I think that's what we are discussing. Florida's age of consent legislation. Is it wrong or right.

  19. Ed Reppert   1 year ago

    Either 18 year olds are adults, with all the attendant rights and responsibilities of that status, or they're not. We the people should make up our minds.

    If 18 year olds are not adults, they can't on their own enter into contracts. They can't volunteer for the military. They can't be drafted or required to register for the draft. They can't be "charged as adults" if they commit a crime. They can't vote or register to vote. They can't drink alcohol. They are still subject to their parents' instruction. All my opinion, of course, but if we're going to rule they are children, they should be treated as such in all respects. The only "out" for them is legal emancipation.

    Good luck with that.

    1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      So, the first time you let your nine-year-old walk to the corner store by herself, you might as well hand her the car keys, a revolver, and a box of condoms? It's all or nothing, right?

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Pretty much. This business of driving during the day at 16 and then any time at 18. Voting and joing the military at 18 and buying Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms at 21 is a pile of shit. Make it one age for all the benefits and responsibilities of adulthood if for no other reason to be consistent. To know at a certain point parents are no longer in charge or responsible.

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          Ridiculous.

          1. Azathoth!!   1 year ago

            Actually, it is your attitude that is ridiculous.

            This endless fracturing of the age of majority has resulted in a childhood shattered to so many pieces that it now extends in some ways to 26.

            One age. 18. The age at which you can volunteer for the military. And the age at which they've given themselves the right to simply take you.

            Is everyone equally mature at this age? No.

            But if men can have their lives taken, then women can choose to give their lives to them.

            One age.

            1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              Now, makes too much sense. They have to complicate it so people are committing crimes without knowing it.

            2. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

              Apples, oranges, and doorknobs.

    2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      So collectives have minds to make up? That idea brought Christian National Socialism and Soviet International Socialism into control over a large number of people. Lucky for them their dwindling life expectancies spared them many of the consequences.

    3. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      The other option used to be voting Libertarian. But that was before Alabama Austrian christianofascist girl-bulliers took over the LP.

  20. Eeyore   1 year ago

    Lots of blue states require you to be 21 to own a handgun. I guess states ban what they don't like for young adults?

    I guess everyone likes it when citizens die in war, because nobody had tried raising that to 21.

    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      I think the 21 for handguns thing is federal law. It's part of the federal form. I live in South Dakota, as red a state as you can get, and it's 21 to buy a pistol and pistol ammunition.

    2. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      In Blue kleptocracy states, looter altruists rob, enslave and oppress demented suckers. In Red kleptocracy states the reverse is true.

  21. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

    run background checks on all workers or contractors

    That's already SOP in most businesses. I haven't gotten a job without a background check since the 80s.

  22. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

    Fortunately, with puberty blockers, people in their 20s can now easily look like they're underage. Hiring performers a little older need not spoil the vibe for the Viagra set.

  23. Cloudbuster   1 year ago

    Florida celebrated International Women’s Day last week by treating the state’s young women like children.

    If a young woman can’t figure out that becoming a stripper is a stupid idea, she deserves to be treated like a child. The only drawback to this legislation is that it should be extended to men and women of all ages.

    1. markm23   1 year ago

      So you want to control women of all ages.

      If you can't figure out that fascism is a dangerous idea, you deserve to spend your life in a padded room - not to protect you, but to protect us.

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        It is a very rare female that has a good relationship with her family that becomes a stripper. Most live in trailers with men who have too many tattoos and no job because they know love will change him.

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          Spot on.

  24. In Canis Credimus   1 year ago

    So I can go die for my country in a war started by old white men but I can't strip, drink alcohol, or smoke weed. Now this is what winning must feel like.

    1. LIBertrans   1 year ago

      See? Its like Johnson and Nixon all over again.

      1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   1 year ago

        Lol. Yeah hank, you and CC are definitely living in the past.

        Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair!

  25. LIBertrans   1 year ago

    The Fifth Amendment, as remangled by the Suprema Corte, makes it OK for them to raise the voting age to 30 or maybe 50. The 21st Amendment offers federal assistance if they again ban beer and declare twigs and seeds, vaping and everything elsee a chain-gang felony. More Americans are stripped of voting by being branded felons by Christian National Socialists than voted for Gary Johnson on the 2016 choice and repeal platform. Kleptocracy apathy is its own punishment.

  26. LIBertrans   1 year ago

    So the Trumpanzista retirement village has elected geriatric dementia victims to make its laws and use deadly force to make them stick.

    1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   1 year ago

      Lol. You’re a hoot, hank.

    2. I…….. Fudd   1 year ago

      No Hank. No one has elected you to decide anything.

  27. TJJ2000   1 year ago

    And in other news 'Government Tyranny. It's for the children!!!'.

    Why 21? Why not 45? If the arrogant politicians can make the 'children' mark at 45 just think how many they can enslave then!

    1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      By that logic—why not 11?

      1. TJJ2000   1 year ago

        In most aspects; why not? Only politicians with 'Guns' of enslavement can raise other peoples offspring? Why isn't it the parents responsibility to 'control' what their offspring does? It would be wiser to make the situation 'child abuse' at the State level than to keep entertaining this 'everyone's kid' narrative.

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          You're almost channeling Jeffy.

      2. DesigNate   1 year ago

        Because we don’t recognize 11 year olds as adults in some respects and then coddle them in others?

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          What we should do is recognize the reality that people become ready for various duties, responsibilities, and privileges at various ages, and there is no Magic Birthday at which it is appropriate to grant en masse every liberty and impose every burden that anyone might associate with being an "adult". There is no reason why the minimum age for a driving license should be the same as the minimum age to be a senator.

          1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

            I've known plenty of young drivers who were more responsible than Senators. But to be fair that doesn't take much.

          2. TJJ2000   1 year ago

            ^THIS^ ... as the [WE] narrative rises again. The USA isn't based on [WE] governing but instead Individual Liberty and Justice for all.

  28. IceTrey   1 year ago

    No one wants to look at a 21 year old grandma.

    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      Except the 31 year old great grandma.

  29. jcorriveau   1 year ago

    So many dumb conservitarians in the comments.

    Not even the FL lawmakers assert that it’s immoral for an 18 year old to strip. They are legal adults, and should be treated as adults.

    As the article mentions, this will lead to MORE sex trafficking of 18-20 year old women. This law creates incentives for more black markets. And by refusing to prosecute 18-20 year old adults who are attempting to break the law, it creates incentives for them to lie about their age to get hired, or to work in those black markets.

    This law has nothing but downsides.

  30. Use the Schwartz   1 year ago

    Illegal Stripping? Even spicier!

    I joke but these kinds of laws always have weird unintended consequences.

  31. Tim Broweraz   1 year ago

    18 or 21, it should all be that way just need to decide. That means not an adult till 18 or 21, for everything (contracts, draft, ....). But picking and choosing all over the place is going to be well accepted.

    1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      Why?

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        If you are responsible enough to drive a ton of vehicle down a road at 75 mph and join the military where you may be asked to fly drones into weddings why not drink booze, smoke tobacco and go to/work in strip clubs? I mean, if you blow up a wedding you're going to need some hard liquor, a pack of smokes and some imaginary comfort from a stripper.

  32. AT   1 year ago

    Something tells me that if Liz and the Reason folks could get it down from 18 - to maybe 14, or 12, or even 8-10, they'd be all for it.

    Don't make me tap the sign.

  33. The Margrave of Azilia   1 year ago

    The varying ages of majority for different activities – vote at 18, tobacco and booze at 21, and now stripping at 21…these are interesting but not the cutting-edge issues of America’s descent into despotism.

    If strippers get more money than young women at more respectable jobs, then independently of their right to do it there’s a late-Roman-Republic vibe of moral corruption.

    1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

      Have you seen the movie Cabaret? It's a warning that when a society sinks into debauchery, the Nazis are always waiting in the wings.

      1. TheReEncogitationer   1 year ago

        Uh, the Nazis are the ones to be warned about, not the Cabaret! Dummy!

        1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

          Right. When a society undermines itself by choosing the chaos of self-absorption and cheap gratification over the wisdom of principles and tradition, the totalitarians are always standing by to take advantage of that chaos. A society that is weak and rootless because "life is a Cabaret" is easy pickings for the Nazis.

    2. TheReEncogitationer   1 year ago

      A free and prosperous Rome could have strip clubs too…It’s just that you’d put Gold coins in a pouch on the stripper’s G-string instead of a handful of salt.
      🙂
      😉
      Also, you’d have to earn that Gold coin instead of sitting in the dole line. You gotta work for your jollies in a truly free society.
      🙂
      😉

      1. Vernon Depner   1 year ago

        Imperial Rome was a slave society.

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