The Truth About 'Rural Rage'
Our research was cited in a new book on “white rural rage.” But the authors got the research wrong.

White Rural Rage: The Threat to American Democracy, by Tom Schaller and Paul Waldman, Penguin Random House, 320 pages, $32
A new book, White Rural Rage, paints white rural Americans, a small and shrinking minority of the country, as the greatest threat to American democracy. The authors, political scientist Tom Schaller and journalist Paul Waldman, try to buttress this argument by citing scholarly publications. We are two of the scholars whose work they cite, and we cry foul.
The overarching argument of White Rural Rage is that ruralness can be equated with racism, xenophobia, conspiracism, and anti-democratic beliefs. But rigorous scholarship shows that rural identity is not reducible to these beliefs, which are vastly more numerous outside rural communities than within them. To get to a conclusion so at odds with the scholarly consensus, Schaller and Waldman repeatedly commit academic malpractice.
Consider the "ecological fallacy" of political geography, on which some of the most salacious arguments in White Rural Rage depend. Most people know that you cannot argue something about individuals because of how groups to which that individual belongs behave. The most famous example of this poor reasoning is thinking that because the richest states of Massachusetts and California vote Democratic, rich people everywhere vote Democrat. The opposite is true.
But Schaller and Waldman depend on this well-known fallacy to support their most provocative claims. Because authoritarianism predicted support for Donald Trump in the 2016 Republican primaries and because rural residents tend to support Trump, they say rural residents are the most likely to be authoritarian. Because white evangelicals are most likely to support Christian nationalist beliefs and because 43 percent of rural residents identify as evangelical, they say the hotbed of Christian nationalism is in rural communities. Perhaps the most egregious form of guilt-by-association comes in a weakly sourced analysis of who supports "constitutional sheriffs": Not a single study of rural attitudes is cited in that section of the book.
It gets worse. In several instances, the authors misinterpret what the academic research they cite says. For example, they use a report by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats to argue that "rural Americans are overrepresented among those with insurrectionist tendencies." But the actual report concludes exactly the opposite: "The more rural the county, the lower the county rate of sending insurrectionists" to the January 6 Capitol riot. Moreover, when a peer-reviewed article in the journal Political Behavior compared rural and non-rural beliefs on whether politically motivated violence is a valid means for pursuing political change, it revealed that rural Americans are actually less supportive of political violence.

Another example comes when the authors rely on a report from the Public Religion Research Institute on QAnon conspiracy theories. The report has its own fundamental problems, including a suspect measure of QAnon support in the first instance, but what Schaller and Waldman do with those data is more egregious yet. First, the authors do not even interpret the model output correctly, writing that the results mean that "QAnon believers are one and a half times more likely to live in rural than urban areas." But the report presents odds ratios, which means that living in a rural area increases the likelihood by just 30 percent. Inaccurate interpretation aside, if they were more statistically literate they would see this is probably not a model worth citing. On the exact same page, the model output suggests that, compared to white Americans, being black increases the likelihood of believing in QAnon by 90 percent! Weird results like this are red flags that should make us ask questions, not confirm our priors.
Beyond issues of sparse and selective citing, the book misrepresents the findings of multiple scholars who have built careers conducting research on rural politics and identity.
The authors characterize the academic concept of rural resentment (the less headline-grabbing academic term that Schaller and Waldman have apparently rebranded as "rage") as necessarily including racial resentment as a constitutive component. But academic work on rural identity has overwhelmingly shown that these two are distinguishable. They are different concepts.
Indeed, as we have painstakingly demonstrated in our own work, rural resentment involves perceptions of geographic inequity. Many rural people see inequity in who politicians pay attention to, which communities get resources and which don't, and in how different types of communities are portrayed in the media. This is not racial prejudice by another name.
Schaller and Waldman favorably cite our research showing that there is a modest correlation between rural resentment and racial resentment, a commonly used attitudinal measure of negative racial stereotyping. What they fail to note is the only statistically and intellectually sound conclusion that could be drawn from our data: While this slight correlation exists, rural resentment is an attitude distinct from racial prejudice.
In another peer-reviewed publication that Schaller and Waldman erroneously cite, we found that rural resentment strongly explains rural preferences and behavior even when one controls, statistically, for a litany of factors, including racial resentment, that Schaller, Waldman, and others conflate with it. The value of our academic work has been to elucidate the place-based dynamics of American politics—to say that there is much more than rage and rebellion in the heartland. It's distressing to see a book citing our work to support misleading arguments.
At a time when trust in experts is on the decline throughout America, flawed analysis like the ideas in White Rural Rage may be a greater threat to American democracy than anything coming from the countryside. It is popular these days to say "follow the science." Well, the science shows that there is no mystery to rural rage: Years of neglect, abandonment, and scorn have driven rural America to view "experts" like Schaller and Waldman as the enemy.
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Did they get it wrong or did they deliberately misrepresent it? My guess is the latter.
Like most social "science" they started with a conclusion and worked backwards from there.
It's hard to tell with motivated reasoning where the boundary lies.
+1
Conditions in NYS have become so desperate that the Hideous reprobate NY governor has been forced to deploy the military into the streets.
Can anyone truly say they ever imagined things could become this dirty and poor?
I can’t wait to leave ny.
Rural people (Black & White & Whatever) very much tend to be anti-authoritarian and therefore, obviously, anti-government.
This is why they must be hated and forced into the gas chambers.
A progressive lie his ass off never
I'm just sick of being scapegoated.
“deliberately misrepresent it” is a really nice way of saying they lied. And yes, they lied.
Of course they got it wrong. On purpose.
I saw them on MSNBC. They're eliminationist sociopaths. There's not a lick of difference between their book and a Goebbels speech or an article in Der Stürmer.
Watch these sociopaths rant.
I don't need to read the book or hear anything they say. One look is enough to clarify that the true title of the book is, "White, Liberal Ivory-Tower-Dwellers Declare Anyone And Everyone Except Themselves A Threat To The Ivory Tower".
Exactly.
The seething hatred is undeniable. There are ten stages of genocide. This is a clear case of Stage 6 – Polarization.
I’m guessing the authors gave a solution to fix rural white rage. A final solution.
Schaller and Waldman are indeed the narrow-minded idiots and bigots they accuse everyone else of being.
But at the same time, you’ll notice that the authors of the article, Jacobs and Kunis, did not deny the existence of Qanon, simply the source of Qanon’s base of support.
In the Information Age, ideas and culture can come to and from anywhere and can take root anywhere in the right conditions. This here Small-Town Secularist Libertarian is proof of that.
Not only are the authors guilty of mind-rape in the guise of science, $32 for 320 pages!!.
Why bother fact-checking what is obviously culture war propaganda for the party.
Another pseudoscience window into the sociopathy of the left and their problem with race.
Its White Fragility all over again.
If you are white, you are a problem. You can try to be one of the good whites, but know that your whiteness is an issue.
It's just an excuse to 'other' and ostracize people with opposing political views and paint them as evil. We have seen this playbook many times
Its White Fragility all over again.
Pretty much.
"If you are a rural white person, you embody all of these horrible things against Our Democracy. You can never be cleansed of these sins, but to demonstrate your fealty, you can continually self-mortify yourself for the rest of your life. If you resist this label we're putting on you, it's proof that we're right. If you self-mortify, it's proof that we're right."
It's basically the same old marxist dialectic, where they provoke reactions that prove, in their mind, the dialectic of their dumb oppressed/oppressor theology.
"If you resist this label we’re putting on you, it’s proof that we’re right. If you self-mortify, it’s proof that we’re right.”
It’s basically the same old marxist dialectic,"
Its the basis for their struggle sessions and the same unfalsifiable crap they keep repeating over and over. Really is a religion without forgiveness
Any intelligent person knows it's total bullshit to claim disagreement is equal to guilt.
And they can't figure out why they are losing people's interest.
If only we can encourage more mental breakdowns and suicides among the nihilist class.
I’m hoping self-immolation becomes a fad.
I saw a video of a girl that was observing hot lava when she slipped and slid right in. She disappeared in a burst of steam. One second she existed and the next second she didn't and there was no trace she had ever existed. That's the version of self-immolation that I'm hoping for.
Was she hot?
Yes, For about 2 seconds.
You can't slip into lava - it is far too dense. Your video game needs a rewrite.
It does say, right in its thinks it's oh-so-clever dig at the righties & libertarians screen name, that it cannot reason. That, its history of bullshit, and the lack of a URL to prove the claim cements the full of shit again status.
I love how the "far right" is both authoritarian and antigovernment. It would seem to be a bit of nuance lost in the demonization.
These people are marxists in the theological sense. When you realize that you're actually dealing with a bunch of religious fanatics who can't stand the competition, their actions and statements make a lot more sense.
It makes more sense, and provides a caution to not waste time in debate. But it limits effective options to keep them in check.
Marxist shitheads aren't exactly known for nuance.
Marxists have no souls. So anything you do to them is ok.
No one has a soul, but most of us have minds that are not deluded by ideology.
Elmer, buddy, pal, whether you stay here or join those of us who are letting things lapse, save the bullets for when you are actually threatened.
The “far right” is both authoritarian and antigovernment... Opposed to the Government Almighty THAT HOLDS POWER RIGHT NOW!!!! They want to replace it with THEIR flavor of Government Almighty!!! It is THAT simple!
Is this NOT true of EVERY not-in-power-right-now power-pig asshole who has ever lived?
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/elbert_hubbard_122580
Every tyrant who has lived has believed in freedom for himself.
There's no nuance about it, they're just insults. It's exactly the same as a street marxist yelling "Fascist! Nazi! Russian Puppet!".
"I love how the “far right” is both authoritarian and antigovernment. It would seem to be a bit of nuance lost in the demonization."
Not really. Hitler was both authoritarianism and antigovernment. He followed the Führerprinzip, slavish devotion to a charismatic leader, and had scant interest in governance, leaving the task to underlings jostling for his approval.
"Hitler was both authoritarianism and antigovernment."
No, he was not.
He was vigorously opposed to the Weimar system, but he was not anti-government in any sense of the term.
"He followed the Führerprinzip, slavish devotion to a charismatic leader, and had scant interest in governance, leaving the task to underlings jostling for his approval."
That is not anti-government. That is anti-democratic or anti-representative government. Not the same thing at all.
The Jordanians you are so fond of in Gaza loathe the same things Hitler did. And believe many of the same things he did. Does not mean they hate government.
"He was vigorously opposed to the Weimar system,"
Hitler wasn't interested in governance. He followed the Führerprinzip, a slavish devotion to a charismatic leader. Hitler was not interested in governance or the Weimar system. Throughout Hitler's rule, the Weimar constitution remained the law of the land, such was the extent of Hitler's indifference to such matters. The Weimar constitution was only replaced after the war at the insistence of the Allies. Hitler's regime was more of a personality cult than a body of laws and practices that constitute governance.
Gazans aren't subject to a personality cult. Hamas is an Islamist organization and doesn't elevate any particular leader over others.
"The Jordanians you are so fond of"
I'm not sure which Jordanians you are referring to. Do they have names?
Do you not grasp how stupid you sound?
Hitler was 'not interested in governance' because he didn't set up a government like the one he overthrew.
This is news to all those who suffered under the government he set up.
And are you not aware that the Gazans--and all Muslims are part of a cult of personality? They wipe their asses in te manner that Muhammed did because he was 'the perfect man'.
"Do you not grasp how stupid you sound?"
No.
"he didn’t set up a government like the one he overthrew."
Yes, because he wasn't interested in governance. He left the governing of Germany to loyal cronies who maneuvered and intrigued to gain advantage over other cronies and please and impress Hitler. Hitler stressed the Führerprinzip, loyalty and obedience to the leader. He was authoritarian but wasn't interested in government or how it operated. Mickey Rat expressed doubt that the two positions could simultaneously be held. I've given a counterexample.
"And are you not aware that the Gazans–and all Muslims are part of a cult of personality?"
Gazans, whether they are Christians or Muslims follow a religion and the teachings of a prophet, rather than a charismatic leader. I don't see any charismatic leadership of Gaza today. Whom do you have in mind? The Gaza leadership met Putin in Moscow a few days ago. Do you recognize any of them? To say that Gaza is under the spell of a cult of personality without being able to point to the required charismatic personality, indicates you don't know the meaning of the words.
Without any sense of the irony, you are displaying exactly why Marxists and their insufferable gaslighting and hairsplitting make them pointless to argue with.
Hitlers specific leadership style, and your arbitrary reliance some abstract concept of “governance” to validate your bullshit definition of “far right” has fuck all to do with the reality of the Nazi state.
"has fuck all to do with the reality of the Nazi state."
Hitler was the reality of the Nazi state. There wasn't much else to it. The word Führerprinzip should tell you all you need to know. Hitler was authoritarian and wasn't interested in government or its operation. Mickey Rat was confused about how someone could hold both views simultaneously. I gave an example.
" make them pointless to argue with. "
Don't get ahead of yourself. You've yet to come up with anything like an argument. Name calling and red baiting doesn't constitute an argument, even in these pages.
Except there was an actual state. A totalitarian and socialist (yes, socialist) one, in fact.
My argument was that “fuhrerprinzip” isn’t the get out of jail card you think it is. And that your arbitrary magic word “governance” isn’t either.
Furthermore, neither of these things are what the authors were using to rectify the logical disconnect between nazi equalling “far right” ” and “far right” being “anti-government”. They’re just calling anyone they disagree with “far right”. And by extension, “Nazis”. But you know this.
"Except there was an actual state."
That's no thanks to Hitler. There was a state before Hitler, during Hitler and after Hitler. It wasn't his doing. Similar with the constitution. Hitler never bothered to write up a Nazi constitution, and was content to leave the Weimar constitution in place. Not because he approved of the Weimar way of doing things, but out of apathy about government its foundations, and its workings.
" They’re just calling anyone they disagree with “far right”. And by extension, “Nazis”. But you know this."
No, I don't know this. I haven't read the book, and don't intend to. Mickey Rat expressed doubt that the two positions - authoritarian and antigovernment - could simultaneously be held. I’ve given a counterexample. If you can come up with a better, more up to date one, I'd be happy to hear it.
He radically altered the constitution via laws and decrees. And he directly put men in control not only of the state apparatus but the military, labor, and industry too. The “privatization” the Nazis supposedly engaged in was actually nationalization via party members (in direct subservience to the 3rd Reich) being sold controlling state bank shares.
So just on the face of it , your point is factually untrue.
But even if it were, no one here or anywhere (except for Marxists using it as a momentary expedient) shares your arbitrary assumption that some one is only “pro-government” if they write a constitution out of whole cloth and they meet your equally arbitrary definition of “governance”.
Also, you’re shifting between Hitler and National Socialism and the Nazi state as if they’re factually the same thing. They’re not. Regardless of Hitler’s rhetoric.
Not to mention the part where the state enforced nazification on every single aspect of every citizens lives. And viciously punished and incarcerated and executed those who didn’t fit or comply. How was this achieved? Spontaneous order?
"Also, you’re shifting between Hitler and National Socialism and the Nazi state as if they’re factually the same thing. "
That's not true. I've been writing about Hitler. Mickey Rat was confused about the ability to be anti-authoritarian and anti government simultaneously. I gave Hitler as an example. There's no shifting. Hitler was a dictator who believed in the Führerprinzip, demanding obedience from his underlings and wasn't interested in government, its foundations, or workings.
I agree that Hitler's hold on power penetrated all aspects of German life, that those who opposed him were persecuted and worse, but that doesn't overturn my original contention, that Hitler anti government. Everything you mentioned was accomplished by his cronies, and the formal mechanisms and features of modern government were bypassed or ignored.
Misconstruman spouts nonsense as an end to itself.
He manufactures nonsense to support his current narrative.
Interesting point. Conceivably they're anti-government unless it's their government, all others being regarded as illegitimate, or they're anti-government when it affects them, but strongly pro-government when it affects "those people".
That's EXACTLY what is going on! YOUR authoritarianism is BAD! MY authoritarianism is GOOD!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump will have no choice after his second term. I know some people like to pretend he won't leave which is simply fear mongering.
Also Trump likes to say shit to rile up the dems.
Also Trump lies at everything so why would you believe him?
"Trump will have no choice after his second term. I know some people like to pretend he won’t leave which is simply fear mongering."
Why (will He have no choice butt to leave), because of the USA cunts-tits-tuition? Ha!!! HERE is how much respect He has for said USA cunts-tits-tuition!!! https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html . . . Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social post
Or because He will be then TOO OLD to wield the rings to Rule Us All, any more? Ha!!! He will then Rule Us All from His severed head held in a jar! The Boys from Brazil have already shown us how to do shit! https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/boys-brazil-1978#:~:text=The%20Boys%20from%20Brazil%20is,to%20restore%20the%20Nazi%20movement.
Oooops! My goof! See the below instead of "The Boys from Brazil"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Saved_Hitler%27s_Brain
They Saved Hitler's Brain
"Also Trump lies at everything so why would you believe him?"
Lies do NOT have to be true, to PROPERLY scare the shit out of us! Especially if TOOO MANY stupid power-hungry assholes WANT to believe the Big Lies! About stolen erections, for example!!!
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump's Big Lie and Hitler's: Is this how America's slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
Vic, did you upset it? Mi see three gray boxes. Undoubtedly full of gibbering.
It should be put down. Given it’s overall lack of coherent sentience, it isn’t really a person in a any practical sense.
Pretending that the right hasn't well-deserved the LIMITED government narrative of the two parties is EXACTLY the kind of BS this entire book is based on. Pure LIES and BS....
Just like You and SQRLSY.
Rarely do you dipsh*ts ever make a point that isn't a blatant LIE, Manipulation or Deception.
And where the F did this so-called Christian [Na]tional So[zi]alism BS come from. Christians ESPECIALLY Rural Christians are massively against Socialism. The Indoctrinating BS is in over-drive.
Pretending that the right hasn’t well-deserved the LIMITED government narrative of the two parties is EXACTLY the kind of BS this entire book is based on. Pure LIES and BS….
Because all the big government initiatives favoured by the right are things you approve of, no doubt.
Think Constitutional Government versus a Democrat-ic Nazi-Empire.
Since at least the French Revolution, rural communities have been consistently resistant to the radical social and political ideas of the urban centers, and the urban political leaders have always despised rural communities for that resistance.
In some ways. During the first 20 years or so of the 20th century, a lot of rural communities became commie enclaves, usually anywhere that extractive industries flourished. The Knights of Labor and then the IWW used to be quite pervasive in the American West in particular. Granges functioned in a similar fashion, but these communities really tended to form around itinerant immigrant labor such as miners and loggers, that had been radicalized in Europe before coming to the US.
These places typically fell apart because they couldn’t be self-sustaining, or were suppressed by state governments as insurrectionist communities when they inevitably started causing violence.
Their critical weakness is that marxism abhors stability, and you can’t have a high-trust society based on belief systems that demand perpetual revolution until the communist utopia takes place. The fact that most of these movements and direct action tended to be driven by people who weren’t long-term residents of the communities–either because they didn’t stick around as workers, or traveled from town to town stirring up trouble, such as Frank Little and Mother Jones– eventually discredited them because they were seen as a disruptive presence to good community relations, which is critical to the social survival of small towns.
Don't forget the different farm laborer unions and farmers unions (the Farmers Union is still a progressive hellhole BTW, Farmers Federation is more right leaning) that were strongest in the upper Midwest. My dad's uncle was a card carrying communist, but some of that was just to be provocative (my family is like that).
Edit I meant Farm Bureau is more right leaning.
According to ZZ Top, La Grange also had "a lot of nice girls-ah! AH-HOW!-HOW!-HOW!-HOW!"
🙂
😉
A parting note before Reason bars me from the avocado toast fest:
The Founding Fathers were not "high trust" when it came to people holding absolute power, so much so that George Washington didn't trust himself to be made King of the U.S.
And the "On You Honor" produce stand died back when my Grandparents were young. I'm beginning to suspect it was all just a Country Legend anyway.
"Can it be that it was all so simple then? Or has time rewritten every line?..."
🙂
😉
when a peer-reviewed article in the journal Political Behavior compared rural and non-rural beliefs on whether politically motivated violence is a valid means for pursuing political change, it revealed that rural Americans are actually less supportive of political violence.
Well that's obvious. The only people in the US who regularly do political violence and even defend it in writing are black bloc types, who are exclusively urban and usually white and affluent. Probably why the authors of "Rural White Rage" are so eager to deflect.
Yeah, Timothy McVeigh only blew up one government building. Weather Underground and its radical left allies blew up dozens over a 25-year period, including the Capitol on two separate occasions, as well as college campus buildings. And that's not even taking into account their destruction during the Floyd riots.
These authors are making the case that rural residents need to be massacred if they don't go along with the communist revolution, just as their 20th century forebears did, which is why they're so desperate to eliminate the 2nd Amendment and private gun ownership. The last thing they want is these people defending themselves.
I dont know how many pieces of the Russian revolution and cultural revolution in China need to be copy and pasted into our society, complete with people arguing for actual communism, for people to realize the warning signs.
This isnt history rhyming, they are saying the exact same shit
Yup, they went from a cargo cult of the New Deal to a cargo cult of Beria and Stalin.
That's more a matter of degree rather than schematics.
This isnt history rhyming, they are saying the exact same shit
"History never repeats itself but malignant tumors comes back from remission all the time." - Squints*
*Unable to tell if Susan Sontag or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is the more ironic reference for my apocryphal quote.
Timothy McVeigh only blew up one government building. Weather Underground and its radical left allies blew up dozens over a 25-year period, including the Capitol on two separate occasions, as well as college campus buildings.
That's your defence? The number of buildings?
It is when that is the example the left always uses to say the right is inherently more violent. A single data point to dismiss their plethora of data points pre and post-dating this incident
A single incident versus multiple ones over a period of 25 years, many of which were specifically done in the name of overthrowing the United States?
Yeah, I’ll take that comparison any day.
Was Mcveigh pardoned by a Republican president?
Haha, predictably shrike shows up to defend leftwing terrorists.
It is a shame that the right wing are actually competent at destroying things. Let us appreciate the utter incompetence of the left.
Still not shrike, you lying cunt.
I am not defending left-wing terrorists (another lie). I am implying that McVeigh was worse because of how many people he murdered. Interesting that a right-winger or two here is more concerned about property than lives.
So it’s body counts that matter to you.
So it's only property that matters to you.
Hey shrike. If number of people killed is your metric why do you caterwaul about J6 and not the BLM summer of love?
I'm still not shrike, you lying cunt.
I don't do either.
Just remember the atf was told not to show up to work that day, and Terrance yeeky was killed
While rural people are not by and large violent with their politics, where do you get this shit that violence is only The Black Bloc? So what are The Order, The Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord, The Unabomber, the Animal Liberation Front, Robert Eric Rudolph, Anders Brevik, and other Manifestoistas? They don't meet this description.
By the bye, as my parting shot before Reason changes the door code for the speakeasy, Thomas Jefferson reviewed your book and called it "the ravings of a lunatic."
🙂
😉
So fascists are lying propagandists?
Well, damn. Whodathunkit?
Gee, I wonder why:
Maybe when "experts" pump out useless tripe like White Rural Rage rural people reach the obvious conclusion: they don't like you, never liked you, don't want you to exist, and in fact they hate you.
As far as "following the science" goes, I'll say it again: social science isn't actual science, it's starting with a conclusion and then torturing whatever data you can find to work backwards to the conclusion you already made, even if it means outright lying about what the data shows.
Maybe when “experts” pump out useless tripe like White Rural Rage rural people reach the obvious conclusion: they don’t like you, never liked you, don’t want you to exist, and in fact they hate you.
"Do not forget that these people want you broke, dead, your kids raped and brainwashed, and they think it's funny."
One of the reasons they might view those guys as the enemy, is reciprocity. If they didn't view rural whites as the enemy, why write the book?
Some people are legitimately totalitarian: everything is subservient to their personal politics. Everything.
Rural America did not vote for Trump because rural Americans are authoritarian, they voted for Trump because in the two party system the alternative was... Hillary Clinton.
It's that simple.
Now I'm not defending Trump. I think he is one of the worst candidates ever. But Hillary would have been an even worse president. The problem we face is that our system bumps the worst to the top.
Besides growing up and living in the rural west, I can assure you most everyone I know takes a 'leave me the fuck alone' attitude, especially towards the government. Largely because for the most part all the government, especially the feds, do is make our lives and livelihoods harder.
I would like to think that our founders had more awareness if not support for the "leave me alone" citizen. But as you know, "activism" is the opposite. And the American left has been driven by activist factions since, well, forever.
And the American right has supported slavery from its origin up until WW2, and actively opposed later civil rights legislation, so spare me your bullshit narrative. Both left and right are activists, you just approve of right-wing activism, and not of left-wing activism. They both suck, but rightwingers are more prone to lying - like when that monomaniacal clownTJJ2000 insists that the GOP is the party of limited government.
Anyone moronic enough to say "But the Democrats!" as though Southern Democrats were not of the right may be dismissed as a lying confederate apologist.
"American right has supported slavery from its origin" ... "but right-wingers are more prone to lying"
WOW ... Just WOW.
In the land where right is left and left is right.
The Dixiecrats would like a word with you about the KKK.
Absolutely correct. You cannot possibly understand why someone would support either Biden or Trump in isolation.
If you could vote for Dolly Parton instead of those two old fools, would you do it?
We have let our political parties lock us into a horrible bargain, forced to make choices none of us want to make, choices so obviously bad that even a completely ridiculous alternative would be better by comparison.
The most powerful and influential group of racists in America today are white people who hate other white people. The bigotry of low expectations has never actually been "soft", but it is now the most prominent and detrimental form of institutional racism, and it hurts people of every race.
The most powerful and influential group of racists in America today are white people who hate other white people.
This actually isn't an exaggeration. Actual surveys have shown that self-described liberal white people are the only ethno-political demographic that has a negative view of their own race. Every single other one of these demographics--liberal non-whites, moderate whites and non-whites, and conservative whites and non-whites--views their own race in a positive manner. That's what makes white people like Schaller and Waldman so dangerous, is that they're calling for the suppression of people who look like them, but don't share their theology.
Rename their brand of Woke Leftism "Fundamentalist Leftism" and it all makes sense. They are religious zealots, and the first step in creating a religious theocracy is creating an ethnocentric identity.
If they have their way, when they are done, the White race will be ideologically pure- people whose ethnic identity is inseparable from the belief in Original Sin- I mean white privilege.
"The most powerful and influential group of racists in America today are white people who hate other white people. "
There's also a sizable contingent of bigotry against Latin Americans. The media is full of stories hand wringing about the 'crisis' at the border, and fear mongering of their threat to democracy. I'm not aware of any similar campaign against white people.
" I’m not aware of any similar campaign against white people."
Are you being sarcastic? This entire article is about a book trying to do exactly that:
"For example, they use a report by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats to argue that "rural Americans are overrepresented among those with insurrectionist tendencies."
Sounds like fear mongering white people as a threat to democracy to me.
Are you being sarcastic? This entire article is about a book trying to do exactly that:
Yeah, I can walk into any American university and have a plethora of course choices where this is the de facto belief of the professoriate, and they aren't at all shy about expressing it because academia is a marxist seminary.
Not to mention the same movement taking place in mass media since about the mid-2000s, or the "dead white guy" and "whiteness" bullshit that I had to read and sit through in college and grad school in the 90s-00s, or the "hey hey ho ho western civ has got to go" nonsense in the 70s and 80s. It all comes from the same marxist hatred of western culture and western "bourgeois capitalism," or whatever else they use as a placeholder, like "whiteness," as the boogeyman for why the heaven on earth they've envisioned for themselves hasn't come to pass.
It seems like you are overly resentful to any study devoted to 'non white' studies. I welcome the change. When I was studying in university, there were only a handful of Asian language courses taught. The east Asian languages, Hindi, Arabic, as well as Sanskrit and Pali. The rest were European languages and there were dozens of them. There were even separate departments devoted to Russian and Ukrainian. What the university didn't offer were courses in Ojibwe, Mohawk etc, languages that were indigenous to the area, but were not spoken by white people, not even white Marxists.
That's changed today. The languages from the old world are still taught, but also now study of indigenous languages is also on offer. And I suspect the teachers teaching them aren't even necessarily Marxists.
For universities to live up to their name, they have to be universal, not focused solely on European and Asian culture. Universities being more universal, more inclusive, is a positive to my thinking.
The problem isnt studying anything that is "non white" its that a large portion (definitely the majority) of these courses/studies is dedicated toward the general premise that white = bad, western=bad, capitalism=bad and that is all just a funnel for the marxist cause of "the current system is inherently bad and needs to be overthrown through revolution"
Add to that, most of the technological advances, humanitarian advances, and general improvement in the human condition in current day is at least highly attributable to western society and capitalism. But that fact is inconvenient to them.
None of this is my experience. I studied the Japanese language for a couple of years and there wasn't a hint of Marxism or anti-white sentiment. I did have one avowedly Marxist professor I recall, a student of P.K. Dick, teaching a course in science fiction novels. I knew the prof was a Marxist before I started and but the contents were not especially political.
"But that fact is inconvenient to them."
Inconvenient to Marxists? Marx celebrated technical achievements and saw capitalism as a necessary stage on the road to a communist utopia. Hardly inconvenient.
""For universities to live up to their name, they have to be universal,""
Univeral would mean you don't try to shut down people you don't like.
Did you support shutting the "enemy" down the other day?
"Did you support shutting the “enemy” down the other day?"
I still support it. Standing by and letting your enemy organize and recruit when you have the means to prevent it, is the height of unserious foolishness.
Then you do not support the concept of universal.
Tribal people never understand that terms like universal, inclusion, all, ect. includes people not of their tribe.
"Then you do not support the concept of universal."
I try to, but I also make room for exceptions. I don't think political disagreements can be wished away by sentimental appeals - 'if we only took a moment to understand the hardships young Adolf underwent as a child and young man, then we could come to terms with the aspirations of the German nation...' It's bullshit. Don't fall for this facile foolishness.
No, I’m overly resentful of academics who blame white people for being inherently evil.
Your non-sequitur about languages doesn’t even address that. And that's because you can't refute it.
"Your non-sequitur about languages doesn’t even address that. "
I've never encountered the things you're complaining about. Look, professors are perfectly within their rights to love whites or hate them. If you wanted to be taught by professors who loved whites but instead studied under those who hated whites, you have only yourself to blame. Next time, weigh your options and choose more carefully.
I’ve never encountered the things you’re complaining about.
A pig doesn't see anything unusual about their pigpen.
Look, professors are perfectly within their rights to love whites or hate them. If you wanted to be taught by professors who loved whites but instead studied under those who hated whites, you have only yourself to blame.
You're deflecting again.
Next time, weigh your options and choose more carefully.
Destroying academia sounds like a good option.
You wrote of your college experience, I wrote on mine. If you don't like it, tough titty. Now that you've graduated, I hope you've finally been able to surround yourself decent white loving people.
You wrote of your college experience, I wrote on mine. If you don’t like it, tough titty.
Right back at ya, pig.
Now that you’ve graduated, I hope you’ve finally been able to surround yourself decent white loving people.
Of course, they aren't white leftists. But I still attend the conferences to keep up on the enemy.
"This entire article is about a book trying to do exactly that:"
One book does not a campaign make. And the article goes to great lengths to debunk the book. Turn to any media outlet on any day, you'll see coverage of the threat to democracy posed by immigrants from Latin America. Presidential candidates from both major parties head down to the border to exploit the fears generated by the media and pander to the electorate. I don't see anything like this directed towards white people.
"Turn on any media outlet on any day, you’ll see coverage of the threat to democracy posed by immigrants from Latin America."
Really? I tune into CNN and they are going to be talking about immigrants being a threat to democracy? Not the best thing since sliced bread? You're delusional.
"and they are going to be talking..."
A picture is worth a thousand words. The folks at CNN are well aware of this, believe me. Fear sells, if it bleeds, it leads. You need to be more skeptical about the workings of propaganda.
Misconstrueman misconstrues. Misconstrueman knows he misconstrues. We know misconstrueman misconstrues. Misconstrueman knows we know he misconstrues. Misconstrueman misconstrues and is an antisemitic bigot as well.
That was as intelligent as the average Sevo post.
Still, could be worse. Could be one of your "boaf sidez" comments.
Politer , too!
"" The media is full of stories hand wringing about the ‘crisis’ at the border, and fear mongering of their threat to democracy. I’m not aware of any similar campaign against white people.""
I take it you have never attended a class on anti-racism.
One trainer mentioned white culture = white supremacy.
So how do you get rid of white supremacy under that definition?
The fact that he makes this statement, unironically, in the comment on an article rebuking a book about how white rural people are evil is all you need to know about MNaziman. Oh and he has a favorite Nazi and doesn't know what the word genocide means.
"in the comment on an article rebuking a book about how white rural people are evil"
It's one book. The demonization of non whites in America is vastly more prevalent. I understand you are rural and white and are sensitive to the existence of a book that presents rural white people in a non flattering light. It's natural. I urge you though to step back and take a look at the bigger picture. The demonization and scapegoating of Latin American migrants evident on an hourly basis across the entire media landscape by both political parties will become clearer. It may even cure you of your pathetic desire to don the mantle of the victim.
You seem to think the "demonization" on "migrants" is based on skin color. It is not. It is solely based on millions of unvetted people crossing with a hand out. I won't even get into the vast number of border crossers who are not LA's.
"You seem to think the “demonization” on “migrants” is based on skin color."
I don't. If anything it seems to come from country of origin. There are plenty of other people who would make perfectly good scapegoats for the ills of society. Take the homeless, for example. They come in all colors, are poor, dispossessed, hopeless, parasitic, sick, weak and desperate. Perfect scapegoats, in other words. What's the difference between them and the Mexican migrants? Country of origin, of course. For all the faults of the homeless, at least they had the gumption to be born and raised American.
They are being imported to murder and replace the native population.
This isn’t going to end as well as you think, you genocidal creep.
"They are being imported to murder and replace the native population."
The more the merrier. The native population includes a good portion of the jerks of the planet.
So you’re copping to your anti-Whiteness. At least you’re finally being honest
"At least you’re finally being honest"
Now that's a crisis.
The demonization and scapegoating of Latin American migrants evident on an hourly basis across the entire media landscape
What a transparent lie. Nobody is scapegoating migrants. What they are doing is calling attention to the massive waves of illegal border crossers and faux “refugees” who are not fooling anyone when they cross 3 or 4 other nations to request asylum in the US. Actual migrants can legally work and are desperately needed to fill the jobs you Marxist shitweasels consider below your station.
Go gaslight somewhere else, you crazy old fuckwit.
" Nobody is scapegoating migrants. "
How about Biden and Trump, visiting the border to do some fear mongering and pander to the rubes? Or the media who can't stop ranting on about the 'crisis' at the border? How much time do the politicians and the media devote to the threat from rural whites? Next to nothing, but you can't accept that, so keen you are to play the part of the victim. You're just as pathetic as soldiermedic76.
How about Biden and Trump, visiting the border to do some fear mongering and pander to the rubes? Or the media who can’t stop ranting on about the ‘crisis’ at the border?
Dissemble, deflect, distract.
How about you respond to what I actually fucking wrote? Nobody is scapegoating MIGRANTS. There are REFUGEES stacking up at the border. Refugees from a bunch of nations that are requesting asylum from the wrong fucking country. Last time I checked, Mexico was not involved in a civil war or suffering from political unrest, which means any Mexicans are not refugees. Which part are you confused about?
Or are you just so fucking racist that you consider anyone that doesn't speak English must be Mexican? It certainly wouldn't surprise me.
I happen to work for 2 gentlemen in their 20s from Mexico who together own 3 US companies that do more than 8 million in US business annually. I do my best, but these guys still end up paying a shitload in US taxes.
I have no problem with "migrants". Refugees, who gamed the system to get here and who are not allowed to legally work in the US? People should have a problem with that.
"I have no problem with “migrants”. Refugees, who gamed the system to get here and who are not allowed to legally work in the US?"
Same here. I have no problem with migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, Mexicans, or Latin Americans. I'm a Christian. Love thy neighbor and all that. And if these migrants have the gumption to game a system whose rules were written to benefit wicked and corrupt politicians, and those who pull their strings, so much the better.
And if these migrants have the gumption to game a system whose rules were written to benefit wicked and corrupt politicians, and those who pull their strings, so much the better.
Understood. Thank you for being honest about your argument instead of running back to the motte.
You have no problem with false asylum seekers and illegal border crossers entering the US because you are a Christian and because corrupt officials take political and economic advantage of them. So very egalitarian.
I could even get on board if it required sponsorship by a citizen or group of citizens who would assume fiscal responsibility for the migrant.
"Thank you for being honest about your argument instead of running back to the motte."
I've been honest from the get go.
"So very egalitarian."
And I like freedom more than the corrupt, greedy jack booted thugs who make the rules. I also believe that dividing the planet into endlessly squabbling fiefdoms is a recipe for disaster. Finally, if I hear a politician or the media, telling me over and over there is some 'crisis,' I know with near certainty it's bullshit. You should try to cultivate the same skepticism.
"I take it you have never attended a class on anti-racism."
Correct, but I have read a number of books on the subject. I think 'White Fragility' was the most strident. My impression is the establishment/elites/oligarchs or society are happy to highlight and emphasize the problems of race at the expense of class. Hence the handwringing over the 'border crisis.'
So you are aware that it's more than just "one book."
It's more than one book. Still, I don't get the feeling of being overwhelmed by society's hatred of rural whites. Unless I'm mistaken, the nation's political, legal, corporate, military and cultural leaders are overwhelmingly white. Less so than before, I grant you, and mostly urban rather than rural white, but there are non white groups, like the migrants coming across the Mexican border, who are scapegoated and demonized to a far greater extent. You only need to read the comments at Reason. Who do you think is the greater threat to a peaceful, prosperous society, the rural white or the Mexican migrant?
Who do you think is the greater threat to a peaceful, prosperous society, the rural white or the Mexican migrant?
Offering a completely fallacious false choice? How magnanimous of you.
Whom do you feel more threatened by, rural whites or Mexican migrants? Judging by the comments I've read here, and the general fear mongering evident daily in the media, I'd say Mexican migrants. I am wrong?
Yes, you are wrong. But by all means, keep the fallacies coming.
It's a question, one you feel uncomfortable answering, at least when I ask it.
Uncomfortable? I already answered it twice. I don't feel remotely threatened by either. That is why it is a fallacy. A false choice.
" I already answered it twice. "
I missed it both times. In one response you said I was magnanimous, and the other you claimed my question was fallacious. Nowhere did I detect anything resembling an answer. Until now, when you claim not to fear rural whites or migrant Mexicans. Something we both share incidentally.
"That is why it is a fallacy."
Check your dictionary. There's certain to be a more suitable word than that.
Check your dictionary. There’s certain to be a more suitable word than that.
Nah, that's the correct one.
"Nah, that’s the correct one."
It is incorrect. A fallacy asserts something that is false. I aksed a question:
"Who do you think is the greater threat to a peaceful, prosperous society, the rural white or the Mexican migrant?"
It's a question. No assertion made, no fallacy enunciated. I get that Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP) doesn't like the question. That doesn't mean it's 'fallacious.'
It is incorrect. A fallacy asserts something that is false. I aksed a question
"A false dilemma is a fallacy that misrepresents an issue by presenting only two mutually exclusive options rather than the full, nuanced range of options."
"A false dilemma is a fallacy "
It's hypothetical. That's still not falsity. There's no issue between Mexican migrants and rural whites. Both groups have members who are potentially a threat to the peace. Which group poses the greater threat? If the question doesn't interest you, Given the hourly scare mongering by politicians and the media, I'd have to say the answer is overwhelmingly Mexican migrants. None of this is to imply that rural whites and Mexican migrants are the only threats to peace. There are drug gangs, greens, reds, pinks, blacks, browns and whites and so on. There are Muslims, Jews, Christians and Atheists. It's just that the politicians and the media are giving us full on Mexican border crisis at the moment, and the article is a review of a book about rural whites. There's nothing false about pairing the two.
I suspect this is more about your need to see yourself as a victim and are resentful that Mexican migrants might horn in on your victimhood and sour your self pity. Pardon the mixed metaphor and the unsolicited psychological profiling. The rest of your blather is unconvincing log rolling. (To mix it even further.)
It’s hypothetical. That’s still not falsity.
"“A false dilemma is a fallacy that misrepresents an issue by presenting only two mutually exclusive options rather than the full, nuanced range of options.”
I realize that trying to redefine the actual meaning of things is what marxists love to do, but that doesn't change your fallacious reasoning.
I suspect this is more about your need to see yourself as a victim and are resentful that Mexican migrants might horn in on your victimhood and sour your self pity.
Marxists also love to play psychoanalyst and try to redirect back on the person they're arguing against, rather than admit to their own fallacious position.
"but that doesn’t change your fallacious reasoning"
Except it's not reasoning, not an argument. It's a simple question, which is the bigger threat, A or B?
"Marxists also love to play psychoanalyst and try to redirect back on the person they’re arguing against"
There's nothing wrong with playing psychoanalyst. Just keep in mind I'm not a professional. Before acting on any advice I give, I implore you to seek professional care. You're not making any argument. You're feeling resentment that Mexican migrants are usurping your status as victim. I understand your reluctance to answer or even consider the question, as it unmasks you as a moral coward, no matter how you twist and turn. It's not unlike the Israelis who resist the charges of genocide as it undermines their treasured status as victims of the Nazi genocide. All very shameful, but there you have it.
Who do you think is the greater threat to a peaceful, prosperous society, the rural white or the Mexican migrant?
Ask Laken Riley. Oh wait, you can't.
"Laken Riley"
She was an urban white, worse yet, a university student. Try again.
And if your point is that her assailant, a Latin American migrant, is a greater threat to society than rural whites, well that's exactly what the media and politicians have been telling us. You're only repeating their message. And you're not disagreeing with any of the comments I've made here on the subject.
Worrying about your federal government forcing open the country's border to admit 11 million people in without vetting them at all -- a bloc larger than the population of all but 5 US states! -- is not bigotry.
'The overarching argument of White Rural Rage is that ruralness can be equated with racism, xenophobia, conspiracism, and anti-democratic beliefs.'
Make that anti-Democratic beliefs. And that is the worst crime (sin) of all.
Anti-marxist.
Counter-revolutionary?
I think the fact that rural areas tend to vote R and urban D is well established.
And being that the D's are out and proud racists, seems like the urban areas are more for racism.
That wasn't too hard
"seems like the urban areas are more for racism."
More fear and contempt for the poor and downtrodden, too. Which often enough amounts to the same thing.
Odd that any locale with racist cops and discriminatory laws --- ALL have Democrats governing.
Weird.
Even the "racist" areas of red states --- tend to be the blue parts of said states.
"Odd that any locale with racist cops and discriminatory laws — ALL have Democrats governing."
How is it odd? Cities tend to democrat. We established this 2 hours previously when I wrote:
"I think the fact that rural areas tend to vote R and urban D is well established."
Because urban life is becoming so expensive, you need subsidies. Ds are more likely to hand out tax payer dollars to anyone.
Granted. Now why is it that way?
'Most people know that you cannot argue something about individuals because of how groups to which that individual belongs behave.'
What? How dare you contradict our noble elite CRT academics and political leaders!
"you cannot argue something about individuals because of how groups to which that individual belongs behave.’"
You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group. That's what the human sciences, sociology, economics, linguistics etc are all about.
""You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group.""
Appeal to stereotypes?
Do looting.
Do violent crime.
In fact, do violent crime and try to air that statistic on any MSM news network without calls for your cancellation and probably execution.
Collectivism and collective guilt are only OK as a one way door to them
Yep.
You get into trouble pointing out that much of NYC's crime problem is gang related.
"Appeal to stereotypes?"
There wouldn't be human/social sciences without stereotypes. Probably the same with physical sciences, as well. We don't discuss each hydrogen atom as a unique individual entity, even though that's the case, instead we stereotype them according to their collective statistical properties. It is no wonder we apply the same approach to the object of human sciences.
"Do looting."
That's criminology. It's another human/social science like economics, sociology and linguistics. Same idea applies.
Ah yes. Another Typical Collectivist. Equating people with atoms and the physical sciences with the social sciences. Do you pal around with CrumJiff? Or are you him under another name?
What have you got against atoms? Or statistics? Or social or physical sciences? What's bugging you?
Are you talking about tendencies, or about how good tribal citizens conform and heretics must be cast out, in order to preserve racial justice or democracy, or some other cultural Marxist bullshit?
I was trying to explain how the social sciences work. If you don't like my answers, find someone else's ankles to nip.
I was trying to explain how the social sciences work.
You were trying to explain how Marxists would like the social sciences to work.
I never mentioned Marxists. Earth-based Human Skeptic was confused about how the social sciences work, and I tried to explain. Here's the original response I made:
"You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group. That’s what the human sciences, sociology, economics, linguistics etc are all about."
The idea is that membership in a group, whether it's skin color, geographic location, or whatever, gives one an indication of what any member of that group likely believes or feels. It's only an indication, mind you, a probability. Not a certainty, but still it's the foundation of all social sciences, and sciences in general. As I mentioned every hydrogen atom is distinct and unique, but we treat them all as if they were all one, otherwise science would never get off the ground.
The idea is that membership in a group, whether it’s skin color, geographic location, or whatever, gives one an indication of what any member of that group likely believes or feels. It’s only an indication, mind you, a probability.
I understand probability. You are intentionally misrepresenting the role of probability in social science. Individuals can never be said to engage in probabilistic behaviors. That is ludicrous. Individuals engage in specific behaviors.
An ethical social scientist will only make inferences regarding behavior within the group and will not infer anything as to the specific behavior of an individual.
Your comment – You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group. – is demonstrably false.
To say that a Christian is likely to believe that abortion should be illegal makes sense. To say that I am likely to believe that abortion should be illegal because I am a Christian would be wrong. I have a specific belief, not a probabilistic range of beliefs.
It would also literally be wrong because I don’t believe abortion should be illegal.
" Individuals can never be said to engage in probabilistic behaviors."
I didn't make myself clear. An individual who is a black woman over the age of 60, and lives in an area which historically has returned D, the individual has a higher probability of voting D than otherwise. But that is only a probability. She may vote for some other party or not at all. However, if you're a canvasser for one of the political parties, you're going to assume she'll vote for D, and devote your precious time and resources accordingly.
" I have a specific belief, not a probabilistic range of beliefs."
This is true, but if I don't know what your specific beliefs are, but do know that you are a Christian and attend church regularly, I wouldn't be out of line assuming you probably oppose abortion. I could be wrong, of course, but I'm safer assuming you oppose rather than support. Because of the group you belong to.
I didn’t make myself clear.
Yes, you did. Ignoring my proof and explaining again does not make it correct.
I wouldn’t be out of line assuming you probably oppose abortion
Yes, you absolutely would. Even after the fallacious way you shifted from my definitive, "believe abortion should be illegal," to the nebulous, "probably oppose abortion" in an attempt to make your shitty argument sound somewhat reasonable.
Again, your comment – You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group. – is demonstrably false. While I could predict that a Marxist would resist the logic in that statement because the philosophy is steeped in rhetoric regarding collective guilt, it would be silly to predict that you would, because you could so easily make me wrong by admitting to it.
"Ignoring my proof and explaining again does not make it correct."
I'm not sure what you believe you've proved or where you proved it.
"you shifted from my definitive, “believe abortion should be illegal,” to the nebulous, "
Nebulous is about as good as it gets in social sciences. They rarely if ever definitively prove anything. Proof is for mathematicians and alcoholics. Social scientists have to make do with probability. Such is the way of this cruel world.
"While I could predict that a Marxist would resist the logic in that statement because the philosophy is steeped in rhetoric regarding collective guilt, it would be silly to predict that you would"
Perhaps it would be silly. The point is it would be sillier to assume the opposite, given that the rest of your assumptions are correct. I'm sure if you take a moment or two to meditate on the question, you'll see I'm right.
You can argue about the probability of how an individual behaves according to the group.
Another fallacy. Perhaps you should have attended an ethics class?
You can use social science to argue about the probability of how many individuals will exhibit a behavior according to the group, but attempting to do so for any individual is unethical.
"but attempting to do so for any individual is unethical."
Unethical, sure, but not illegal. They called the folks on Madison Avenue Mad Men, not criminals. Same with Facebook or Google.
Either you are stupid or being deliberately obtuse. It is boring.
I am agreeing with you. It is unethical. It continues nevertheless. Are you offended by the notion that advertising depends on the same principles that drive the social sciences? You shouldn't be. I beg you to avoid a knee jerk response put a little more thought into it.
You are not agreeing with me. I claimed that what you wrote was fallacious. You responded with a non sequitur about advertising, either with the intention to deflect from my claim or because you didn't grasp there was a claim. I pointed that out, and you responded with an elaboration on your non sequitur, claiming to agree with me on something I never claimed.
Dissemble, deflect, distract. You are consistent.
"You responded with a non sequitur about advertising, either with the intention to deflect from my claim or because you didn’t grasp there was a claim. "
I didn't make myself clear. Advertising and social sciences both use statistical measures of large groups to target or come to conclusions about individual choices and behaviors. Not surprising as marketing is a social science like criminology, economics, sociology or linguistics. I thought you found this unethical. Now it turns out you don't. As I said, you should try to avoid knee jerk responses, and give the matter serious thought.
Add demonize, and when all else fails, DARVO. Also Chuck, trueman has shown itself to be stupid and deliberately obtuse.
Now imagine a contingent of Americans who still prioritize individual liberty, free markets, and limited government. And who see massive political movements and parties trying to eliminate these fundamental values, and more. Are these Americans justified in feeling a bit of rage?
"Are these Americans justified in feeling a bit of rage?"
Are rural Americans more justified than urban Americans? The book seems to argue yes while the article no.
Are the rural people in NY and California a threat to the democracy?
The urbanites of NY and California certainly think so.
They are Californians , sooo ... maybe ?
also
The overarching argument of White Rural Rage is that ruralness can be equated with racism, xenophobia, conspiracism, and anti-democratic beliefs.
I had to burn a certain set of sheets in a chest in the attic when my Grandpa died. They all tend to have the same viewpoints in that area, which is why my parents left.
Yes, we know, anything that resists leftism is just like the KKK.
Plus Hitler times Trump.
"Are the rural people in NY and California a threat to the democracy?"
If they crossed over from from Mexico illegally, yes.
I saw nothing but farmers, rednecks and hicks destroying cities across the country in the summer of 2020. They are definitely the violent angry ones.
"I saw nothing but farmers, rednecks and hicks destroying cities "
Actually it was their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Rural blacks from the south, Okies and their ilk spent a good deal of the last century migrating from rural areas to the cities.
So, cities turn people violent. And Democrat policies also tend to do that.
Got it.
"So, cities turn people violent. "
Poverty and desperation turn people violent. I'm sure if you look carefully, you'll find city dwellers who lead comfortable, contented non violent lives.
Sure. And the comfortable, contented city elite are the ones setting policy that push the desperate people into dysfunction and poverty, right? And what party do both groups claim to support?
American oligarchs lavishly fund both parties, and are handsomely rewarded in return. The elections this year will cost over a billion $US. The notion that the elite fund only one party is foolish nonsense.
"And what party do both groups claim to support?"
We call these groups marginal. It means their participation is marginal and unimportant. The influence of the poor and dispossessed on the direction our society takes is negligible. Better to look to oligarchs and wealthy if you want to see who really wields influence. Your desire to scapegoat the poor and downtrodden is playing into the hands of the elite. You should be more skeptical of the elite and their role in society.
Actually, violence makes poverty
Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump are wealthy. If they feel their property or themselves are under threat, they only have to make a call and an army of jack booted thugs with guns and knives will come running.
"We should choose the most racist and classist title we can for our book. That'll get 'em selling like hot cakes!"
No, but it will get you an interview on MSNBC.
a small and shrinking minority
Uh, by my estimation something like 3 billion people living in rural settings have become white adjacent in the past couple of years making it the fastest growing "minority" in the world. If, confined just to this country, you throw in the "ain't blacks" and the older generations of not-Immigrants and non-Latenes... your assertions don't stand up to (some of your own) logic.
Weird results like this are red flags that should make us ask questions, not confirm our priors.
That's exactly what you'd expect a rural, cis, het, white, mansplaining conservative would say.
The most famous example of this poor reasoning is thinking that because the richest states of Massachusetts and California vote Democratic, rich people everywhere vote Democrat. The opposite is true.
Is it?
Its counterpart, Black Urban Rage, dedicated to the memory of St. Floyd, however, will be mandated in kindergartens nationwide.
White people in the rural areas are now the enemies of the American people?
The same white rural living Americans who raise food for us to eat daily?
Those Americans?
Yes, we in Iowa are all that and more. Now going out to clean my guns and wax the ropes.
Well, see that those are meant for self-defense. I've had to warn AT about using those against the innocent, but he seems to be jonesing for a Viking funeral on land.
So racial collectivist redneck Trumpanzees are not as collectivist, bigoted or mystical as what you see them doing--all day every day. That's the new message? Redneck girl-bulliers are reeeeally desperate for someone else's platform to preach, exhort, hate and mooch votes from. Rotsa ruck.
oh look an unhinged tr**n. Who would have thought
I suppose we should file this one right next to the threat of "Christian nationalism."
And not ask who exactly was burning down the cities most recently.
If there's anything the Left does on a daily basis, it's projection. Everyone else is guilty of doing the exact same things the Left is doing currently.
Subsequently, it was easier for me to understand the 2 of them on MSNBC if I substituted "BLM" and "antifa" when they said "Christian nationalist" or "rural Americans".
A classic case of misdirection.
"I substituted “BLM” and “antifa” when they said “Christian nationalist” or “rural Americans”.
It's not a good idea and will likely lead to further misunderstandings and difficulties on your part. I urge you to watch again sans substitutions or any other embellishment that strikes your fancy.
Christian nationalists are loners who bomb buildings or shoot abortion clinic workers. And that's only a tiny minority, most are law abiding, and perfectly decent people, notwithstanding their god bothering bigotry. The BLM is a Marxist/anti imperialist/anti colonialist movement which believes in mass action whether it's demonstrating or throwing rocks at corporate windows or police cars. At least that was the way it was back in the good old days. Now, the leadership is corrupted, and they've come in from the streets, and are peddling ID politics.
**Now** the leadership is corrupted? They were robbing donations from the jump and rioting. Their antiWhiteness has been apparent from the beginning
"They were robbing donations"
That's the corruption I mentioned.
"Their antiWhiteness has been apparent from the beginning"
Perhaps so, but it was their antiBlackness that impressed me. When media darling Al Sharpton showed up at Ferguson to address the crowd, the locals had the sense to refuse him. That to me shows good sense and good political instincts. I can't say the same thing about Christian nationalists, their terror bombing and assassinations are things I could never support. Perhaps you have good things to say about Christian nationalists, but not me.
In any case, I urge you not to watch media coverage of Rural Rage while substituting BLM for Christian nationalist. I've given reasons why this would be a mistake and lead to misunderstandings. If you've already watched the media coverage making those substitutions, I humbly aks you to rewatch sans substitution. Thank you for you time and cooperation.
The takeaway from this is to recognize how researchers act when their work is misprepresented to push a political agenda. Compare this to other examples where we constantly here this is true.
For example, the usual suspects here often defend CRT by claiming there is a legitimate core the the discipline and the manifestations we see in public are corruptions the core researchers don't support. If that is true, why have e literally never seen an article like this from them? The reason we have never and never will see one is that CRT is intentionally designed to support those programs and the left wing defenders who deny it are lying.
The same is true with climate change. Activists who pose as scientists produce the most extreme conclusions they can. If these were real scientists they would speak up when political activists made even more extreme claims unsupportable by the data. Yet we see none of these rebuttals, instead we get jeffey and the other left wingers trying to protect the movement by insisting the criticism applies only to the fringe.
Activism means political actors working together in different roles. Once you recognize them the game becomes transparent.
I think I'm with you in spirit on this one, but not necessarily in the letter. I've been in many a spirited discussion of claims about CRT and climate change, and I've seen those on the left make some detailed, factual defense. But now that you mention it, I've not seen it much here in the VC, but in other forums such as Slashdot which (ostensibly) has a more technical focus.
One problem with discussion threads in general is they tend to degrade into did-not/did-too slug fests very quickly. I'm thinking that's because people are generally unwilling to say "you've got a point" online for some reason.
Dave,
I've not been around for a few months. Can you provide some details for these 'detailed, factual defenses' of CRT and climate change? The user name, date should get me in the ballpark. I recall the insistence that actually CRT was just an obscure legal ideal, no way no how was it being taught in schools, and certainly it wasn't malignant racist wishcasting a la the vast majority of racist/sexist social theory. I remember similar for climate change, no science not based on models that weren't clearly risible.
"Years of neglect, abandonment, and scorn have driven rural America to view "experts" like Schaller and Waldman as the enemy."
This is because "experts like Schaller and Wlldman" ARE the enemy.
"Most people know that you cannot argue something about individuals because of how groups to which that individual belongs behave."
Is that really true of most people? Doctors don't understand the 'ecological fallacy' (a subset of the fallacy of division). Many if not most prescriptions of antihypertensives and statins are made on the basis of statistical data about populations instead of anything to do with the individual patients.
For that matter, the FDA drug approval process is based on the same fallacy.
I'm am an airline pilot, have been for 13 years, plus weekend warrior-National Guard....got to see first hand all the big blue city crime, violence, insane homeless population increase, mobs and riots ("peaceful" protests), masked protesters (identity concealing brown shirts) and political protesting related to Trumps win in 2016....that all tells me these "white rage" authors are ass covering Dem cucks and can blow me.
I moved out a very modest house in small community hours outside of the Minneapolis metro after the 2020 summer of love... and that house was snatched up by 2 lesbian doctors from Minneapolis who offered WAY over our asking price. I almost turned them down on principle...stay in your damn crime ridden blue city.
Point is you libs all hate us country folks then "mysteriously" want to move out by our "violent" asses.
Dear Blue City People;
GO
THE FUCK
AWAY
.
Frankly, I think it’s a mistake for anyone to give these posers any attention at all. Their whole premise is just so obviously guilt-ridden and shame-based.
I recently spent a few days in the hospital. I had a chance to speak with a diverse group of people . I was pleasantly surprised by opinions of my caregivers. White Black Hispanic Asian I didn’t find anyone who isn’t outraged by the current state of America today . From immigration to crime inflation just about any issue rage doesn’t come close to how people feel today . This book is just another example of how out of touch most woke liberals are the current state of affairs. If this keeps up I hope the Republican states stop cooperating with the Federal Government in a similar way that some Democrat cities have done with sanctuary cities or how Texas is ignoring the recent Supreme Court decision to remove the barb wire they installed on the border.