California Senate Hopeful Barbara Lee Wants $50 Per Hour Minimum Wage
If you’re going to set arbitrary prices for labor, why not shoot for the moon?

Minimum wage advocates are often asked why, if they think prosperity can be achieved by setting a floor on what people are allowed to charge for their labor, they don't just hike it until everybody is wealthy? A candidate for the U.S. Senate has now risen to that challenge, proposing to set wages as high as $50 per hour. That could be a pathway to making everybody wealthy—if only the minimum wage made sense as policy, which it doesn't.
This week, the four leading candidates for the U.S. Senate seat opened by the overdue departure of Dianne Feinstein met for a televised debate. Under California's open primary system, Democratic Reps. Adam Schiff, Katie Porter, and Barbara Lee, Republican Steve Garvey, and all other candidates for the seat will go against each other March 5, with the two top vote-getters facing off in November.
Unsurprisingly for California and the year 2024, the spotlight was on bad ideas.
You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.
More Prosperity by Law
"Porter and Lee both support a $20 to $25 an hour minimum wage," according to Clara Harter of the Los Angeles Daily News. "Lee, who is pitching herself as the most progressive candidate in the race, has said that she would consider $50 per hour a living wage in the Bay Area, which she represents."
Lee based her argument on a 2021 study by United Way that claimed that one in three California earn less than the "real cost measure" of living in the state based on neighborhood demographic analysis and what the organization called "household dignity budgets." In San Francisco, "a family of four would need to make $127,332 each year just to meet basic needs," SFGate reported at the time. For context, Lee's $50 wage, multiplied by 40 hours per week and 52 weeks each year comes in at $104,000.
United Way's methodology for arriving at a "poverty measure that points the way to a decent standard of living" is more than a bit squishy, but California cities are notoriously expensive. Still, waving a magic policy wand and mandating that employers pay everybody "a living wage" based on fond wishes isn't going to make everybody able to afford the state's costs. It might put them out of work instead.
Higher Costs and Fewer Jobs
Just before the new year, Pizza Hut announced "it would lay off about 1,200 delivery drivers in Los Angeles, Orange, and Riverside counties," Reason's Eric Boehm noted. The layoffs were planned to take effect "just weeks before the new, higher minimum wage hits" in California, hiking wages to $20 per hour. Remaining workers might get higher pay (assuming their hours remain the same—a big "if"), but fewer people will be employed.
The cost of buying meals is expected to rise, too, as restaurants adjust to California's new wage law.
"Minimum wage for California fast-food workers is set to rise to $20 an hour in April, a 25% increase from the state's broader $16 minimum wage," The Wall Street Journal's Heather Haddon wrote earlier this month. "Restaurants including McDonald's, Chipotle, Jack in the Box and others say they will raise menu prices in California in response, with some McDonald's franchisees estimating hundreds of thousands of dollars per restaurant in added labor costs."
Higher price tags are likely to reduce demand for fast food as people make their own meals or turn to other alternatives. That's what happened when Seattle mandated higher compensation for food delivery drivers, driving up the cost of meals and giving would-be diners second thoughts.
"Assuming that you are working constantly, then yes, you're going to be making that much money," Mia Shagen, a driver, told King5 News earlier this month. "But that's not what's happening right now. Because people are not ordering as much anymore."
Economists Know Better
It's no surprise that higher labor prices raise costs and reduce the demand for labor. In 2021, the Congressional Budget Office researched the impact of a proposal to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour from (still current) $7.25.
"The number of people in poverty would be reduced by 0.9 million," the study predicted. But "employment would be reduced by 1.4 million workers."
Government officials can dictate a price, but they can't make it worth people's while to pay that price. That's why most economists oppose minimum wages. A 2015 survey of economists found "nearly three-quarters of these US-based economists oppose a federal minimum wage of $15.00 per hour." The survey also reported a "majority of surveyed economists believe a $15.00 per hour minimum wage will have negative effects on youth employment levels (83%), adult employment levels (52%), and the number of jobs available (76%)."
"So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages?," economist Paul Krugman wrote in 1998. "Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."
Having morphed since then into a political columnist, Krugman now endorses government-set prices for labor. He insists "the market for labor isn't like the market for, say, wheat, because workers are people." But he explicitly mocked that argument a quarter-century ago, writing: "Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor—unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments—can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects."
Pundits like the modern version of Krugman and politicians like Barbara Lee might want prices for labor to be different than other prices, but economic laws remain in the way. People's labor is worth what others are willing to pay and artificially hiking the price by decree means fewer jobs and reduced income for many real people who were falsely promised benefits from the law.
"Government-mandated minimum wages are always arbitrary and almost never based on any sound economic/cost-benefit analysis," economist Mark Perry wrote for the American Enterprise Institute in response to the eternal debate over this issue. "Why $10.10 an hour…and not $9.10 or $11.10 an hour? Why $15 an hour and not $14 or $16 an hour or $25 an hour?"
Like many politicians, Barbara Lee must have heard some version of that question. Her response is to raise the ante to $50 per hour in a bid for votes. But hiking the price people are allowed to charge for their labor always pays off in higher costs, lost jobs, and less prosperity for those on the receiving end.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Idiots.
We are surrounded by Idiots.
Surrounded by idiots, outnumbered by fools.
Is it any wonder I'm singin' I'm singin' the blues!
Lyrics by Mr. Burns with Smithers on the guitar.
I thought it was 'clowns to left of me, jokers to the right'?
it's 2024.
Why not both?
Both apply quite well to Clownworld.
Steelers Wheel. Stuck in the Middle with You.
I'm referring to an album called "Simpsons Sing the Blues." One of the songs is sung by Montgomery Burns with Smithers on the guitar.
However it can often feel like Steelers Wheel had the right of it.
She has my vote. Just sayin'.
Sarc or stupidity?
The minimum wage is zero.
For illegals yes. This is why we need more illegals. Part of the dem economic plan.
For anyone you economic ignoramus. Setting a price floor on labor means people who can't earn don't get a job and are thus paid zero. It's the seen and the unseen. You see people with the high minimum wage jobs. You don't see the people who never get hired. But you've made it clear that the unseen doesn't exist. Especially with regards to immigrants. If you can't measure it then it didn't happen.
....except illegals can be paid below minimum wage and under the table. What can they do? Complain?
Illegals are little more than a slave class. Importing more is a really bad idea, but Dems have supported importing slave labor for as long as they've existed.
….except illegals can be paid below minimum wage and under the table. What can they do? Complain?
They can say no and take another job.
Illegals are little more than a slave class. Importing more is a really bad idea, but Dems have supported importing slave labor for as long as they’ve existed.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I think it means exactly what he said. Democrats have always been the BIG ON SLAVERY party. Heck they fought a civil war to keep it. They've toned down their racist part of it previously but the underlining desire is still full-on obvious and the racism is back again.
You realize that the people who fought in the civil war are dead, right?
Apples and Trees.
Let's call them "exploited underclass". I can even accept the term "peasant class". But the word "slave" has an explicit meaning that doesn't apply here. So while it's good for shock value, it actually reduces support for your point because you are saying things that are objectively untrue.
Considering how a lot of the human smugglers work, enslavement, or at best indentured servitude is actually fairly apt. Work for us or else, pay who said anything about you getting paid.
Anyone can be paid below minimum wage on the same terms illegals are. Plenty of people get paid under the table.
Checking the 'law' ... Well that's not really as true as you propose it to be. If it's not illegal to hire invaders it's a downright lie.
JesseAz and others on this site would be well advised to wander over to Mises.org and buy a few books, read some articles, listen to a few podcasts before commenting on such things as a minimum wage.
May I suggest "Economics In One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt as a starting point?
The true minimum wage is, and has always been, zero. Barbara Lee is ignorant which is bad enough. However, she is also stupid since she refuses to even attempt to understand why her proposal would do more harm than good. You can cure ignorance but you can't cure stupidity.
If you raise the minimum wage to $50, then a burger would be $30, your fries $20, and your soft drink $15.00.
"The true minimum wage is, and has always been, zero."
Because if the value of someone's labor to an employer is less than the legal minimum wage then that person will not be employed at all.
No, we just make it illegal to raise prices. Then we make it illegal to stop producing burgers at a loss! It'll work this time, I promise!
The left doesn't even want us to have burgers. Unless they are made from ground bugs.
or super expensive lab grown meat
Which is just ground bug slurry, filtered and fed to a fake beef cell. So, still bugs.
"...If you raise the minimum wage to $50, then a burger would be $30, your fries $20, and your soft drink $15.00..."
And you won't sell many, but you'll lay off a bunch of people and probably go broke.
Wait until you see what it does to the price of groceries.
Barbara Lee's problem is standard-issue "progressive" myopia. As nonsensical as $50/hr for a minimum wage seems in general, working full time at that rate is basically the local "poverty line" in the area she's used to representing. That area has also been subject to non-stop "progressive" governance at the local level for 50 years, and at the state level for well over a decade without a break. Unfortunately for the true believers who continue to choose that style of "leadership", part of the inherent myopia is the inability to comprehend the unintended consequences of their policies and the multiple ways in which such governance is ultimately counter-productive to what its alleged goals are supposed to be.
There are some geographic factors which contribute to the housing shortages which have had the housing costs in the area for a long time, but those are exacerbated at every turn by policies making it virtually impossible to increase the local housing supply to any significant extent.
The "good news" for the people in CA is that this November, we'll likely get to choose between her and Adam Schiff for who will be replacing Feinstien in the US Senate. The bad news is that we'll likely be forced to choose one of the two of them to replace Feinstein instead of having the option to elect someone who isn't at least as hostile to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights as DiFi was for decades.
This proposal is outright criminal. Enticing people to vote for you based on the promise of a $50 minimum wage while knowing it would never happen should result in instant disqualification from running for any public office.
Well, I know this is going to raise some shit, but it has to be said. This is why women shouldn't be allowed to vote. This is a purely emotional argument that will attract emotional thinkers like women and beta males.
That was a stupidly sexist comment. I know quite a few economically literate women who are as outraged by these kinds of proposals as you and I are. And I know lots of economically illiterate men who can't see the obvious consequences. I agree that this is a "purely emotional argument" but you are flat wrong to believe that men are immune or that women are somehow more susceptible.
lol... As-if "women are somehow more susceptible" hasn't been completely solidified over and over again throughout all of human history. You're right on an individual level but your selling BS on a larger scale.
Where would you categorize Janet Yellen?
There are exceptions of course, but the handful of economically literate women who understand business are rare. Excluding them from the voting process is a cost to pay for the vast majority who vote with their emotions and put waves of socialists in office because socialism feels good.
Since the 19th Amendment passed we stopped electing a majority of statesmen to office and began electing a majority of pandering politicians who offer such schemes and win elections because it feels good to want to help people.
Yes, there are stupid men who vote with their hearts. The system can afford their feel good votes because they are a minority of the male electorate. They'd probably stop voting in protest to be in solidarity with women since they are mostly beta males.
Nothing new here. The math is almost identical to the Universal Basic Income of $100k. But instead of UBI, it's WBI (Workers Basic Income). I'll call it UUBI.
You mean socialism.
In the early 70's, they almost called it "Nixonomics", but that's gone down the memory hole along with how much more like "baseline GOP principles" Bill Clinton's economic policies were and how little actual difference there was between the policies of the "W" and Obama administrations (the main actual difference being that the Bush/Cheney/Rove regime never had the stones to collect the kinds of powers into the executive branch that Obama did, especially regarding extrajudicial killing of US Citizens).
You can call it that. I'll call it stupid.
Stupid isn't a heavy enough word.
Stupid is driving too fast on icy roads. Stupid is not being able to do long division. Stupid is running downhill. Even Forest Gump would be able to reason this a bad idea.
This it catastrophically idiotic. Not only does it show an inability to understand the very fundamentals of how businesses run but it shows an inability to perform basic reasoning.
This, my friend, is what we of an older generation reserved the word "retarded" to describe. This is an act of someone who is severely developmentally disabled. The kind that is incapable of being potty trained and must wear adult diapers.
The only people more retarded are the masses that will vote for her because they like this retarded idea.
Let's call it retarded.
Has a nice ring to it...
She doesn't need to understand how businesses run. In her worldview, operating a business for the purpose of generating any kind of profit (especially if that leads to income for the "owners" of said business) is a fundamentally criminal enterprise.
Increasing the difficulty of doing so is the best she can do until the left can devise some kind of pretext for imprisoning those who attempt to do such things.
She probably imagines employers are making many times more in profits than is actually the case, and so they can afford to pay that much for the same jobs and still make money.
Why not just pass a minimum-wage law requiring all employees to be paid at least 55% of the median wage?
You should apply to be her campaign manager. But I don’t envy you trying to explain median to her.
Beautiful.
This is ridiculous and mathematically impossible. The median wage is what half of the workers earn less than, and the other half earn more than. Raising wages for any group of workers automatically raises the average wage which means a raise in the median wage, which means a raise in the average wage, which means a raise in the median wage, etc. As worded, there is no end to that cycle. The goal is impossible to reach. Think harder.
It was sarcasm.
This only makes sense if you realize she expects every job to support a family of four.
California should pass a bill that the minimum wage is $100.00 per hour effective in one year. This will allow all companies one year to exit the State of California and move all operations to another state where there isn't the insanity of California. California is a beautiful state, but it's being run by complete idiots.
Speaking of California idiots .... The state MW is $16 per hour EXCEPT for fast food workers. Those jobs have a MW of $20 per hour, for obvious reasons.
Remember the old days when we all naively thought 'Fight for $15' was just union grandstanding?
In any major city in CA, anyone working full time at $20/hr either live in their cars, have multiple jobs (or some other income stream), still live with their parents, or have at least 2 people per bedroom sharing an apartment and maybe have one vehicle amongst them.
I agree with the assessment that the idea of a minimum wage that's a "living wage" is untenable. What's happened in CA is that the "progressive" governance combined with the presence of some of the most overpaid industries (Entertainment, tech) on the planet and artificial shortages which create an environment where housing speculation only stops when the speculators get priced out of the market (which is why Blackrock and other PE outfits are getting to own huge chunks of residential real estate since they can afford a much longer timeline) has driven the cost of living up to a point where wages that sound ludicrous in most of the country are barely enough to cover the cost of living on the street in some places.
Even Ryan Grim (left-progressive true believer who writes for the Intercept) has called Los Angeles a "failed experiment" after visiting the area on a book tour (he didn't believe the claims of $7-8/gallon gas until he saw it for himself). If only he could be forced to acknowledge who has been conducting that experiment, and what ideas they were trying to prove out....
How can that be. I'm told all the time by sarcasmic that all the immigrants running from their Mexican-Socialism ideology into CA just wanted to work freely even if it's at $1/hr. How in the world did the state ever elect someone mandating $50/hr?
Propaganda is the only line of confusion. History has a perfect record demonstrating how Socialists cannot sustain themselves and always ends up running (emigrating) away and conquering someone else's greener pasture. After all. If it wasn't for all the BS propaganda everyone would see right away the very ideology *IS* the ideology of conquer and consume.
Barbara Lee walks into a gas station with a 'gun' and demands ?free? candy.
Barbara Lee walks into a gas station with her [WE] mob gang 'gun' and demands ?free? candy.
Barbara Lee walks into a gas station she works at with her [WE] mob gang and a 'government' 'gun' and demands ?free? candy.
Every Criminal Democrat that ever exists ....., "Oh. Did you say 'government' gun? That makes any crime a legitimate exercise."
Democrats make Al'Capone look insignificant in comparison.
Once upon a time people understood the only asset to humanity for a monopoly of gun-force was to ensure Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
If Barbara Lee wants candy she can *EARN* it without using the State's 'guns' of force like a criminal robbing someone else's gas station. She can start-up her own gas station and pay everyone $50/hr.
In Barbara Lee's district, there's no need for a gun. Anyone can walk into any business and take anything worth less than $950 (except for a gun, ironically) without paying and face absolutely no fear of arrest or criminal charges being filed by the authorities.
Or they can simply break into a parked car on the way to or from taking products from that business. This is why piles of shattered safety glass (formerly car windows) are now called "San Francisco Snow", and many residents in the area now park their vehicles with the doors unlocked and windows rolled down to avoid having to get their windows replaced (which is usually costs just under the deductible for most insurance coverage) on a regular basis.
"For context, Lee's $50 wage, multiplied by 40 hours per week and 52 weeks each year comes in at $104,000."
Seems reasonable. A 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco rents for about $3000 a month - $36000 for the entire year. Slightly more than a third of the proposed income. (30% - That's traditionally been the guideline for how much of one's income should go to rent.)
Currently the minimum wage in San Francisco is about $17. 17*40*52 is about $36000. 100% of average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment.
You're chasing a dog-eat-dog end-game. 'Guns' don't make sh*t.
More like a rent eat income game.
trueman is stupid enough to believe you have to pay rent *or* buy food!
Again, "stupid" does not due him justice, "retarded" is far better.
WHOS choice was it to 'rent' what their neighbor had-built/earned?
Just because they didn't want to *EARN* ownership doesn't give them any right to demand a-deal using 'guns'. The same applies to minimum wage.
'Gun' demands/theft that distort motivations to create/build/earn ends up in a zero-sum resources game of dog-eat-dog.
Humorously 99% of the cause to the effect of how 'unfair' the system is ... is directly rooted in the premise to 'gun' theft steal in the system. Socialism is like quicksand that way. The more 'unfair' it gets the more socialist minds make it more 'unfair'.
The pursuit of government-guns has to be for Individual Liberty and Justice for all else by it's very design will turn into [WE] gangland 'armed-theft' battles with zero-sum resources.
No it doesn’t seem reasonable. Wages are based on the market value of an employee’s labor, not what they need to live in the most expensive cities.
And you don't think rents will go up a lot more if the cost of labor basically triples?
I don't think proponents of a 'living wage' give a whit about economic reality. They care about fairness.
Then they should have no problem *EARNING* everything their hearts desire without 'guns'. What could possibly be more 'fair' than that?
"I don’t think proponents of a ‘living wage’ give a whit about economic reality."
The economic reality is that if our lowest paid workers want a decent roof over their heads, they have to forego food, clothing, transportation, medicine, entertainment, education etc. If it wasn't clear the first time around 36000 - 36000 = 0.
Then they need to acquire some skills or find someplace cheaper to live.
^BINGO! I might have mis-infered ur last comment. /sorry.
When it comes to the focal point of a 'gun' (gov-guns) there's aggressive 'gun' usage and defensive 'gun' usage. The leftard BS propaganda literally lies in trying to pretend their aggressive 'gun' usage is somehow defensive. i.e. I'll hold-up the gas-station with a 'gun' because I'm defending myself against the owner taking cuts from revenue. Yet the action isn't defensive at all because the owner didn't aggressively pull a 'gun' on the employee (re-enact slavery). Democrats aren't gov-gun defensive. They're gov-gun aggressive almost always. Which plays right into the LIMITED government premise.
"The economic reality is that if our lowest paid workers want a decent roof over their heads, they have to forego food, clothing, transportation, medicine, entertainment, education etc. If it wasn’t clear the first time around 36000 – 36000 = 0."
They could live somewhere cheaper and commute. They could get roommates. They could stop voting for braindead idiots. They have options.
"They have options."
Unfortunately, the less money you have, the fewer options are open. We don't have the option, as the poor do in Hong Kong, of living in a flat converted into a dormitory of wire cages stacked on top of each other. For a considerable number of San Franciscans, their option is to live precariously in the streets. We write endless pages in the comments here complaining about their choices.
You know WHY they cannot do what the poor of HK do? They voted to not allow it.
The options you provide are 1) Let them live on the streets or 2) Pay them multiple times more than they are worth, insuring numerous people lose their jobs as is.
You seem to ignore than 2 leads to 1.
So your solution is voting for candidates that favor introducing HK style dormitories of wire cages? Prisoners in SF's jail have better accommodation. I don't think that'll fly. Your next solution is to decrease the wages of our least skilled, most vulnerable workers? Another no-fly zone.
You could vote for pols who will not limit what you can do dramatically. Again, there is a gap between anarchy and totalitarianism.
And the least skilled should be paid less. The minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. People get paid it briefly, if ever (most jobs start above that level).
It was set up to prevent blacks from working. It is now there to prevent the young from working. Also people who have fucked their lives for years and are trying to clean up.
"You could vote for pols"
I don't get the feeling that the problems we're discussing can be solved by voting for one person over another. The process is too corrupted and oligarchical.
"And the least skilled should be paid less. The minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. People get paid it briefly,"
Not a living wage? Not enough to sustain life? Why not just kill the poor outright and have done with it?
"It was set up to prevent blacks from working. "
It failed in that regard. Plenty of blacks work. Is that why you want it abolished? You want to deny a living wage to black people now?
I can't understand your animus towards the working class. All your prescriptions are right out of Benito Mussolini's playbook. (Except your promoting HK style wire cages to house the poor. Mussolini endeavored to provide decent housing for the working class.)
Are you going to add hyper-emotionalism to your anti-Semitism as a replacement for logic?
If you are being paid minimum wage after just three months of work --- then you're being overpaid and your labor is not worth anything. That is a YOU problem. The world does not owe anybody a living. Nobody is OWED sustenance. Somebody has to pay for it and you have yet to explain why anybody should be forced by force to do so (all government action is backed by force, mind you)
You favor lower wages for the poor and vulnerable, longer commutes and wire cages for housing. Your logic is faultless. Your priorities are fascist.
"...The economic reality is that if our lowest paid workers want a decent roof over their heads, they have to forego food, clothing, transportation, medicine, entertainment, education etc..."
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Most just don't understand enough math to comprehend the idea of second-order (or higher order) effects.
They look at the idea of handing out money to all the poor people as having no impact to anything beyond getting those people "out of poverty". They don't understand how doing that causes inflation (especially when the money is being printed by the Federal reserve before being handed out), and the resulting inflation increases inequality by both increasing the valuation of the assets of the "ownership" class and by putting ownership of such assets further from reach by the "lower" classes both by decreasing purchasing power of "disposable" income and by reducing disposable income by those without passive income streams through increased cost of living.
A few years back, most of the people I know who backed the "fight for $15" movement posted memes saying things like "I'd happily pay a little more for fries if it means the person cooking them gets a living wage". This is emblematic of the myopia that's endemic to "progressive" believers; they don't seem to comprehend that it's not just fries that'll cost a little bit more, and it's not just customers of non-necessity items like fast food who would have to pay more, and that whoever is cooking the fries won't really be better off when their bigger paycheck doesn't grow as fast as their basic bills, and that's assuming they're not already trapped in the quicksand of multiple layers of public assistance which was all enacted to help those in need but which has ultimately created the equivalent of a marginal tax rate that's close to or in some cases higher than 100% when making an extra $100/month ends up costing more than $100 in reduced benefits PLUS a few percent increase in basic expenses due to inflation.
"They don’t understand how doing that causes inflation"
Doesn't inflation benefit society's poor (the debtors) over the rich (the creditors)? That seems an extra benefit to the proposal of a living wage for a 40 hour work week.
"it’s not just fries that’ll cost a little bit more"
Wages will also increase. Maybe not in line with prices, but it's worth it if the poorest and most vulnerable are guaranteed a living wage making decent food, clothing and shelter a possibility. Those who suffer most would be the rentiers who have to make do on repayments with discounted money. Maybe they would have to find a more productive way to make a living. Flipping burgers for $50 per hour, say.
"Wages are based on the market value of an employee’s labor, not what they need to live in the most expensive cities."
We're talking about minimum wages here. They are set by the government, not the market. At the moment in San Francisco, the area Barbara represents, the minimum wage, over an entire year, without holidays, will cover the rent on an average 1 bedroom apartment, and nothing more.
So how about we forget about government mandated minimums and go with the market, as you would prefer. Let's say $5 per hour tagging photos for Amazon's Mechanical Turk. 5*40*52 (again, no holidays) is about $10000 per annum. And instead of renting, which is a wasteful, constant drain, with no long term benefit, we buy a 1 bedroom apartment. The average 1 bedroom in San Francisco goes for about $700000. That would take 70 years, not including interest. You'd have to start tagging photos from an early age to satisfy the demands of the market.
We’re talking about 'using guns' here.... Whatever math it takes to justify using 'guns' against those 'icky' people ...... etc, etc, etc....
Your entire premise is criminal.
Do you know the origins of minimum wage laws? They were created back when politicians understood economics. Eugenics was big at the time, and the government was looking for ways to "clean the gene pool." One way was to put a price floor on labor. By making it against the law to hire someone who lacked the skills to earn the minimum wage, undesirables like retards and freed slaves would be unable to find work. This was before the social safety net, which meant those people would starve to death.
So you're promoting a policy that was designed to force people into unemployment and thus starvation.
Because the reality is that businesses aren't charities. Employees must create more value than they're getting paid, or they're not going to be employed for long. Forcing businesses to pay higher wages doesn't turn them into charities. It just increases the number of people they won't hire.
"So you’re promoting a policy that was designed to force people into unemployment and thus starvation."
I'm not really promoting anything, merely pointing out that renting an average 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco will eat up your entire income if you make $17 per hour, the local minimum wage.
If you want to abolish the minimum wage, let's go with the $5 per hour at Amazon's Mechanical Turk. 5*40*52 is just over $10000. If a minimum annual income of $36000 results in starvation and misery, I don't see how your preferred $10000 is an improvement. You'll have to explain that.
I’m not really promoting anything, merely pointing out that renting an average 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco will eat up your entire income if you make $17 per hour, the local minimum wage.
Do you know what percentage of the population is actually paid minimum wage? Depending on if you count tips and sales commissions it’s between 1 and 3 percent. That’s it. It’s not a living wage. It’s an entry-level wage. Between 97-99 percent of workers earn more.
Besides that, who comprises that 1-3 percent? Mostly the very young and the very old. High minimum wages are why high school kids can’t get a job and enter the adult workforce without any marketable skills.
The only people who benefit from minimum wage are the politicians by giving them a way to convince economic ignoramuses to vote for them.
" It’s not a living wage. "
That's the gist of my comments here. And the minimum goes to the very young and very old, the most vulnerable people in our society. And you seem to be arguing that a non living wage of $17 per hour is still too high.
"High minimum wages are why high school kids can’t get a job and enter the adult workforce without any marketable skills."
I don't get this either. What's the attraction of high school students doing menial jobs that adults eschew for minimal wages? If they are students they should be studying, preparing for a rewarding future rather than flipping burgers and wiping off tables. In other cultures, families wouldn't dream of letting their children forgo their studies to waste their time in menial labor for paltry wages. What is it with Americas who are so anxious to trade their children's future earnings for a mess of pottage today?
"...I don’t get this either..."
That's because:
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
You are promoting the misconception that an entry level worker has some mystical right to live alone in a fancy apartment in one of the most expensive cities in the world. That's not realistic. That's never been realistic.
People without the skills to earn above the minimum wage should not be trying to rent an "average" apartment in SF. That's what it means to start out. You share places, live in dives, stay with your family or do other rational things to save money while you learn the skills that will eventually let you move out.
"an entry level worker has some mystical right to live alone in a fancy apartment in one of the most expensive cities in the world. That’s not realistic."
An average apartment isn't realistic either. If one's entire annual income goes into paying rent with nothing left over for food, clothing, etc, what on earth is the point of fantasizing about a 'fancy apartment?'
" You share places, live in dives, stay with your family or do other rational things to save money while you learn the skills that will eventually let you move out."
Maybe 8000 San Franciscans are homeless on any particular night, depending on the season, more than a 1000 are youths. They piss and shit on the streets. We complain about them in these comments on a regular basis. They are typically not learning the skills that enable themselves to improve their lot. It seems to be an all but inescapable trap. It's less about 'starting out' than 'ending up.' I don't see how these problems are to be addressed by cutting back on the wages given to our most vulnerable, least experienced and skilled.
I get that you don't see how these problems are to be addressed - your comments and proposals are what caused all those problems in the first place. Pay people what they are worth and get out of the way. Trust in your fellow man instead of trying to impose your own paternalistic policies on everyone else.
"Pay people what they are worth "
Aren't you saying our least skilled, most vulnerable workers are worth a lot less than they are currently being paid? How is paying them less going to solve their problems?
Aren’t you saying -----------> "our" (PROBLEM SPOT).
Someone else's work having no value isn't an "our" problem.
It's "their" problem.
Distorting a workers 'value' from their pay is exactly the problem and the 'unfairness'. 'Guns' don't make 'value' and won't turn the valueless into value. It just signals that more valueless work is needed. Is the goal here to have as many useless employees as possible? 'Guns' don't make sh*t.
They are not worth what the minimum wage requires.
Which is why there is a minimum wage.
All increasing it does is lead to mechanization of more and more jobs.
...your fondness for illegal immigration, mind you, help increase the problems you are bemoaning, BTW.
"All increasing it does is lead to mechanization of more and more jobs. "
What have you got against mechanization? If nothing else it eliminates drudgery and frees people to pursue more fulfilling options. Shouldn't we be trying to encourage that? You think the problems here would be solved by replacing bulldozers with teams of shovel bearing men? Men, whose wages are not enough to qualify as 'living wages?'
"your fondness for illegal immigration, mind you, help increase the problems you are bemoaning, BTW"
At the same time immigration alleviates bigger problems elsewhere, so there's that. Immigrants from central America working in a wealthy nation like the US do much to lessen the impact of poverty back in the old country with their remittances.
"What have you got against mechanization?"
Fucking hell, REALLY?
You bemoan these poor folks devoid of any marketable skills AND you promote mechanization, ignoring that the first people it replaces are those poor folks devoid of any marketable skills.
A robot can enter an order at a fast food franchise more quickly and more accurately than their current employees. They just cost more to have than the employees. Increase minimum wage and, well, that one saving grace of the people with no marketable skills goes away and, well, they then go from being paid "too little" (per you) to nothing whatsoever.
I do not see how that is an improvement, but maybe you will explain how.
"If nothing else it eliminates drudgery and frees people to pursue more fulfilling options."
If your skills are not good enough to make a living at "drudgery", why would you suspect they'd be better at "more fulfilling options" where people with ACTUAL marketable skills will compete with and block them from the job every single time?
"Shouldn’t we be trying to encourage that? You think the problems here would be solved by replacing bulldozers with teams of shovel bearing men? Men, whose wages are not enough to qualify as ‘living wages?’"
Do you realize how many jobs exist solely because the mechanical replacement costs more than the human labor? It is a frightening number. Virtually all entry-level jobs fall into that category.
"At the same time ILLEGAL immigration alleviates bigger problems elsewhere"
Since you left out a key work, I capitalized it for you. And that would be, officially, not our problem. Mexico being a shithole --- remember how upset you were when Trump referred to countries like them as such --- is not the US problem. We have zero obligation to "Fix them", much as you buy into the whole "white man's burden" line of thinking.
"ILLEGAL Immigrants from central America working in a wealthy nation like the US do much to lessen the impact of poverty back in the old country with their remittances."
Capitalized that missing word here too, since you seem confused.
Why is it my concern in any way if Mexico has its poverty taken care of by people violating MY country's laws? I do not seek to have us control the world nor resolve all of the world's problems as that does not work.
I don't know why you seem to have it in for fast food franchise owners. If they want to replace workers with robots, why would you want to stop them? Do you think that fast food franchise owners are obligated to provide jobs for societies poorest and most vulnerable? That is terribly unfair. I suggest that the poor and vulnerable should be the concern of society as a whole, not just those who are in the fast food business.
"Mexico being a shithole "
I disagree. I think it's a wonderful place, more so than its neighbor to the north. And I have nothing against ILLEGAL labor, either. Those who enter illegally are bolder, more daring, more resourceful and more entrepreneurial than the type of people all too anxious to comply with arbitrary government dictat. You, as an acolyte of Mussolini, prefer the latter of course.
"Why is it my concern in any way if Mexico has its poverty taken care of by people violating MY country’s laws? "
Maybe it isn't. You're a fascist, after all. But as a Christian, I take the words, "love thy neighbor" seriously.
"...What have you got against mechanization? If nothing else it eliminates drudgery and frees people to pursue more fulfilling options. Shouldn’t we be trying to encourage that? You think the problems here would be solved by replacing bulldozers with teams of shovel bearing men? Men, whose wages are not enough to qualify as ‘living wages?’..."
That's a whole lot of sophistry, dodging the point and outright bullshitting in very few sentences, asshole.
Also devoid of any logic. People who minimum wage overpays as is are not likely to be MORE suited to the "more fulfilling" jobs as more people actually want those jobs and they are all more competent at them.
"I’m not really promoting anything, merely pointing out that renting an average 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco will eat up your entire income if you make $17 per hour, the local minimum wage...
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
At despite supposedly spending 100% of their earnings on rent, San Francisco has fast food restaurants staffed with human beings. Someone is willing to make that trade. Perhaps they are willing to commute. Perhaps they share living space with other earners. Perhaps they work multiple jobs and only do this part time. Whatever the reason, no one is pointing at gun at these people and forcing them to trade their labor for $15 an hour (or $10 or $5 or $0.01). They choose of their own volition to take jobs or not and if a job does not pay them enough to survive, obviously they will not just simply die. They must have some way of making it work, and employers choose what salary to offer. If they can't get sufficient people at one price they must offer more.
"At despite supposedly spending 100% of their earnings on rent, San Francisco has fast food restaurants staffed with human beings."
100% is extremely high. Traditionally rent ought to be not much more than 30% of one's income.
" and employers choose what salary to offer."
No, in San Francisco, there is a minimum wage - $17 per hour. With a 40 hour week over 52 weeks (no holidays) that income will cover the rent for an average 1 bedroom apartment and nothing else.
"Whatever the reason, no one is pointing at gun at these people"
San Francisco has over 2000 police armed with guns, knives, saps, tasers, etc, ready to force the inhabitants to do pretty much anything the police desire.
100% is extremely high. Traditionally rent ought to be not much more than 30% of one’s income.
That is the fault of the renter, not the landlord.
SFPD is forcing people to cook Big Macs at gunpoint?
You'd think that would make news.
Hey, you know living in Beverly Hills is ALSO really expensive. We should make a living wage so everybody can live there. No chance of problems there.
This plan will demonstrate that the real minimum wage is zero.
"SFPD is forcing people to cook Big Macs at gunpoint?"
It's usually coffee and doughnuts.
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Dude, just stop. I know that taking retarded positions and pretending to be serious is your schtick, but this one is too obvious.
If being able to tag photos online (which can be done from anywhere with decent internet access) is someone's highest ambition, they should really consider doing that job from a place with a more affordable cost of living. Nobody has an inborn right to live in a particular city..
$20/hr is a wage that'll leave someone homeless in SF, but in states where the median home price is under $250k, two people making that wage could actually manage to buy a house rather than struggle to share a 1BR apartment with 1 or 2 additional roommates.
I thought that's what BART was for ... to let the peones commute to their high-paying jobs in the city and pay low rent in Oakland.
Average 1 bedroom rent in Oakland is about $2500. 2500*12 = 30000. Daily two way commute on BART is about $12. 12*5*52 (no holidays) is over $3000. With the same $36000 job, you're left with $3000 to cover annual expenses for food, clothing, medicine, entertainment and everything else. Better than San Francisco but still tight.
When you have NO job --- then what?
Your time is your own. Use it wisely. You'll never get it back.
No income is just fine with the asshole trueman, but that's because:
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Your desire insures more and more people will have their own time to not provide a living situation.
They need to stop thinking some politician or oligarch is going to save them. They need to get organized. Your wire cages and Mussolini inspired nostrums aren't going to do the trick.
The person advocating for Communism here (odds are, he/she does not realize that they are doing so) is bemoaning other people being "fascist". Amusing.
Your solutions are straight out of Mussolini. I understand if you haven't realized this until I pointed it out to you. The praise for housing the poor and vulnerable in wire cages is your own contribution. Mussolini was keen on clean, modern housing for everyone.
"The person advocating for Communism here"
Communism is essentially free housing for all. Learn something about housing in North Korea if you are curious. I'm advocating the situation where rent is 30% of income, a traditional guideline in capitalist countries. Your advocacy of 100% just shows you are out to lunch and haven't thought things through, you're too busy parroting fascist talking points.
"Seems reasonable."
Really?
$50 an hour "seems reasonable"?
Do you think rent will stay where it is when the cost for labor more than doubles?
"$50 an hour “seems reasonable”?"
30% of income going towards rent has traditionally been seen as reasonable. If anything, 100% seems unreasonable.
"30% of income going towards rent has traditionally been seen as reasonable. If anything, 100% seems unreasonable."
trueman.
Is.
Full.
Of.
Shit
Sounds like it's a problem for the workers. If you cannot afford to live in a city....move elsewhere.
Charleston's Battery is a gorgeous place to live. I sure as fuck cannot afford it. So, guess what --- I do not live there.
"If you cannot afford to live in a city….move elsewhere."
How is a city to function if the lowest paid workers live elsewhere? And a place where accommodation is cheapest also has the fewest job opportunities, doesn't it? Sounds like quite a dilemma and your solution seems of extremely limited value.
"...How is a city to function if the lowest paid workers live elsewhere?..."
This sumbitch is the master of false dichotomy, ain't he?
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
Commuting to work is not a new nor is it an obscure concept.
So lower wages, longer commutes, wire cages. That's your solution. Good luck with that. Maybe you should provide us with an example. Take a pay cut and move into a wire cage in the middle of nowhere. Show us how your solution works.
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
“Spouting nonsense is an end in itself.”
And the post above is a prize example.
No joke.
Maybe we should pretend that only Jews are benefitted by the minimum wage being $50 so he will oppose it and call it fascist to consider it.
If the politicians controlling the area want lower level workers to be able to afford to live in the city, maybe they should stop imposing policies which artificially inflate the cost of living.
The people who run CA in general, and LA/SF in particular have never figured out that businesses who provide necessary goods and services to the people in the area have only one revenue stream (prices charged to their customers). This includes housing, utilities, food, transportation, and every other necessity and luxury item purchased within the city, and that their continuous increase in the cost of operating any of those businesses (along with any other business of any other kind) in the area subject to their control increases the prices charged for every necessity of life, thereby increasing the cost of living. That's not even getting started into the deliberately manufactured housing shortage in these cities (by the same pols who spent decades pretending that homelessness was simply a "housing problem"), or the continual devaluation of the currency by their ideological allies in DC.
The people running CA, and LA, and SF, are still hiding behind the slogan "the rent is too damn high" in a campaign for expanding rent control. This despite the obvious data indicating that supply shortage is the primary cause of high housing costs, and that price controls reduce supply anywhere and everywhere that they're imposed. However, the leftists in the area are entirely dismissive about "the builders' solution" to high housing prices because they've chosen to believe that "corporate greed" is the only cause of any problem anywhere; although they've seemingly carved out an exception for Covid vaccine profiteering, to the extent that most Dems I know have to be shown Pfizer's SEC filing summaries from 2018-2022 to be convinced that any part of "big pharma" ever made a penny off of the pandemic.
That's nuts. She won't get elected not even in California.
She already has.
Luckily the Dems don’t have any plans to make the rest of the country just like dipshit California.
Yet. Watch this space.
She's not likely to win the senate seat, but that's because the State Dem leadership decided before nominations were opened up that Adam Schiff would be the next Senator from the State. The TDS runs deep here, and nobody has shinier anti-trump bona fides than the guy who almost turned the "investigation" of the Steele Dossier into a modern age version of HUAAC.
For a party that pretends to be "defending democracy", they really don't seem to have a lot of time to spend worrying about what the actual voters might or might not want....
The concept is broadly called "marginal effect." Businesses are not all the same. There is a broad range of businesses with some very profitable (they can absorb some increased marginal costs and remain profitable) and some just barely surviving. For the just barely surviving group any increase in labor costs will put them out of business, either quickly or more slowly after a downward spiral of cutting labor or increasing prices followed by decreasing customers. If an employer goes out of business by definition they no longer pay employees, so their former employee's income becomes zero.
And surprise surprise, the ones going out of business tend to be the small or middle sized companies, while the ones who can, on average, best absorb the costs, tend to be the big guys, who these laws contend they are really targeting. But somehow it's always the big companies that seem to benefit in the end. If I was given to conspiracy theories ...
Someone noticed all the box stores being open during Covid and the small stores being forced to close. Guess who donates the most to politicians.
$50/hr!? Per hour!? You expect people to work an ENTIRE hour!? Should be $50/min.
Instead of mandating all employers to pay $50/hour minimum, why not empower all employees to identify as workers who make $50/hour?
Once everyone in the city is making $50 an hour everything will be so expensive they'll need to hike the wage to $200 an hour.
More money chasing fewer goods equals inflation. Pretty basic stuff.
Democrats have never let things like facts or truth impede their demagoguery. When you are morally and ethically bankrupt like the Democratic Party, words don't matter, promises are made to be broken, and ruin is the order of the day!
Krugman is the master of hypocrisy and flip flops. He's a completely political tool of the far left and is no longer an economist.
About 20 years ago Washington state adopted inflation indexing of the minwage. It was litigated, and courts established:
1) When cost of living goes down, the minwage DOES NOT go down.
2) When cost of living goes up again the minwage goes up, rather than waiting until the cost level reaches the level it had been before cost of living went down.
Nice ratchet effect Washington state law has.
The advocates of that law talked of advocating that Washington's minwage go up faster than cost of living, in order to narrow the state's wage gap. I never heard of that idea advancing.
Some years later those same advocates jumped on board the $15/hour minwage bandwagon. Couldn't get a continuous increase in minworker wages relative to others, how about giving them a jump right now? Washington state voters approved that.
By such means the better off in the Puget Sound region feel better, virtuous, about themselves. How about the lower classes they are "helping"? Q: In what year will minwage hit == the median wage for the region? (in effect, when >=50% of the region's population makes minwage.)
Following the first rounds of plague, the nobles were faced with a major decrease in workers, and rising costs for the remaining workers. The crown in England decided the best solution was to ban workers from leaving their ancestral manor without permission and setting by law how much they can be paid and banning nobles from hiring workers not attached to their land. Despite the crown trying and punishing a number of nobles for hiring workers for more than the set price and from outside their land, the practice continued. Edward III eventually stopped enforcing the law without actually repeating it. Richard II tried to enforce it again after he inherited the throne. This led to the Peasants Revolt and eventually helped lead to him being deposed (and likely murdered). While these laws were meant to keep wages down, the inability of a supposed omnipotent leader to try and control the conditions of employment demonstrates that power can't artificially control supply and demand. If workers are scarce or skills are scarce, than those workers or those that possess said skills can demand and receive higher wages. If workers are surplus or skills are not unique and widely possessed the workers can demand higher wages but there is no incentive for employees to pay those higher wages and nothing the government decrees can change that. Edward III could say you can't hire a farm laborer from your neighbors estate and pay them higher wages, but those nobles needed farm laborers to operate their estates, and since one half of the population had died recently, the only way to get those farm laborers was to pay more than their neighbors to attract their laborers to work for you. No matter how Edward and Richard tried to change things to fit their preferred outcome they couldn't succeed. Minimum wage jobs are almost entirely unskilled or minimally skilled jobs, not uniquely held but fairly universal. While the employment market is supposedly tight it has become less so and the tight job market is a fairly recent phenomena anyhow, plus many of these jobs can easily be replaced by automation and the only reason they haven't is largely because there wasn't a financial incentive to automate. But raising wages above what the market would support now creates those incentives. Even if it still is cheaper to currently hire people, the fact that politicians keep increasing costs, and threaten to continue to raise them, the incentive becomes not having to deal with that uncertainty indefinitely.
Laws in medieval England were extremely punitive. The crown would declare anyone over 14 to be an outlaw, which put him outside the protection of the law. An outlaw could be killed outright without any due process. Anyone providing food, shelter or comfort could himself be declared an outlaw. At the height of this medieval madness something like half of England's peasantry were classed as outlaws.
I'm all for it. I absolutely think California should do this. More than anyone, they deserve it.
What to do when you support crap policies?
Pander to the weak and the stupid.
I've got a better idea. Let's abolish government schools, so kids aren't indoctrinated to believe that this kind of pig-ignorant lefturd cuntitude is something to take seriously.
-jcr
Well, we need someplace for the people whose parents dont give a shit about education so they have a shot at learning something.
Perhaps (and this won't get many supporters here in a largely libertarian forum) if a parent doesn't care about education, they are unqualified to have children. In such cases, perhaps any existing children they have should be taken out of the home just as if those children were not being fed or not being taught to bathe or being subject to other forms of child abuse. As well, NO need based government benefits should be available to such people if they have another child.
It's not the worst idea I've heard. However, like all such government powers what happens when the other side takes over and the power is in their hands? Suddenly sending your child to a religious school is ruled to be an insufficient education.
Best to keep government out if the whole process from beginning to end.
I hope Lee is already paying all of her campaign workers and other employees at least $50 per hour.
Conservatives, and particularly libertarians, spend a lot of time trying to point out why liberal’s policies don’t work and the harm they’ll do. We fail to appreciate that someone like Barbara Lee knows full well that she’ll put a lot of small businesses out of business and a lot of people out of work and dependent upon whatever largess she thinks the government should bestow upon them. The Democrats crave a much poorer society, all in the name of saving the planet. A $50/Hr minimum wage would go a long ways towards accomplishing that.
That is true we need to do a better job of finding people who are on the fence and not freaking them out with too much doom and gloom. Arguing with leftists can be fun. But it's a waste of effort.
I hear The Squad is proposing $1,000 minimum hourly wage.
At the very least for baby sitting.
Well, members of Congress have a guaranteed minimum wage. Which they then supplement with legalized bribery and insider trading. So, I guess fair is fair…
The minimum wage (at least in the private sector) never changes. It is ZERO. Any employee who doesn't return value in excess of the cost of employment cannot be sustainably employed in the private sector. The public sector, of course, is not strictly subject to market forces.
The minimum wage is what an employer must pay a worker with zero work experience, low normal IQ (say 90), moderate and limited education who lacks initiative. It is not what one should expect to strive for once they have experience.
If such a person is not "worth" the minimum wage upon graduating or dropping out of high school, they won't get a job. As they remain unemployed year after year, they become even less and less employable as employers are more likely to take a chance on an unproven entity than one that has, obviously, proven unattractive to all potential employers for years. It's entirely possible that such people will never get a job - esp. as they are likely to descend into desperate behaviors (such as crime and drugs) or homelessness.
A person with no experience and no education beyond high school (if that) should be sharing a place with at least one (and probably more) roommates early in their "career" -- just like myself and most of my colleagues did upon graduation w/a BSc from respected universities in high demand technical areas (now called "STEM").
If a minimum wage were to exist (and it should not), it should only be enough for someone working 40 hours per week to feed, clothe, obtain medical insurance, and shelter (with housemates) themselves if they are frugal.
What it takes to "support" a family of four (presumably the prototypical "two parents and two children") is completely irrelevant to the "minimum wage" discussion. If you are so intellectually demeaned that all you can get is minimum wage jobs for the rest of your life, you shouldn't be making the decision to have children. But if it comes up in such a discussion, since both parents should be working on the average of 40 hours per week, two minimum wage incomes should at least be factored into the analysis.
Automation is real and higher minimum wages accelerate adoption of automation - good for those in many tech fields, not so good for others.
This is the kind of idiocy that is going to end the American experiment. It looks like it's already well under way.
Every politician should be required to retake basic science, and have hammered into their head the first law of thermodynamics. You can't get something for nothing, and when you try to, you're either stealing or insane (or both).
I used to love going into McDonald's for an Egg McMuffin breakfast. I really like my egg-a-muffin, love the hashbrowns, and the coffee isn't bad at all (hey, no hating).
My last #1 Egg-McMuffin Meal with medium coffee milk only, about a month ago, was over $10.
What used to be a casual, not-even-gonna-think-about-it pass on the way to work is now "I simply can't justify that expense any more". I'll make my own coffee and if needed I'll grab a microwave breakfast burrito before heading out.
And CT is only at $15.69/hr minimum wage.
I "get" how the costs of supplies and related has gone up a lot, too. But labor tends to be a higher cost of production. And I don't begrudge someone a "living wage" but working minimum wage at McDonald's has never been considered, by any rational adult, as a "living wage job".
My loss of my fav fast food breakfast is not going to put anyone out of a job. But I strongly suspect I'm not the only one that is now giving second-, third-, and fourth-thoughts to just popping for a quick bite. It's just not a good value anymore.
Truth.
There's once in a blue moon that I ever crave breakfast on the way to work. But when I did, it was McDonalds - sausage biscuit with cheese (wholly accepting the ludicrous upcharge for a slice of American cheese), hash brown, orange juice.
And let's not kid ourselves about what I was getting here. Pre-made warmed biscuit, microwave sausage, literally just slapping cold cheese on it, a premade hashbrown chucked in a fryer (so, 50/50 odds whether you get hot and crispy or sat under a heat lamp), and dispenser OJ you have to remind them not to water down with ice.
But I knew what I was ordering, and I was 100% OK with it. Because what I really wanted most of all was convenient and palatable.
Last time I ordered that, I questioned whether they had the total correct. I bought, I paid, I ate - and I haven't been back since. Because that quick fix meal is not worth what I had to pay for it. I was willing to pay for it for the convenience. Now the cost outweighs the convenience.
My concern is not - and never has been - with whether the guy microwaving the sausage or the chick carelessly wrapping it in paper can afford their rent. Why would I ever think about that? (No, seriously - if anyone takes affront to that, answer that question.) My concern is a cheap quick meal.
If McDonald's is no longer offering that on the menu - then I'm not going to McDonald's. That simple.
(I also have a separate but related issue with Curbside To Go/Doordash at chain restaurants in which we were previously accustomed to visiting and sitting down. Which is actually worse in so many ways than the McDonald's inflation. Because now you're paying higher markup for >QuikServ food that you effectively ask to steam en route for an additional 15-60min).
Sometimes I wonder if COVID/Biden efforts aren't an intentional design to destroy chain/franchised restaurants.
There's the minimum wage we all need!
Mayson you cheap slut. You worked 155 hours last month for chicken feed $85,000? No thanks.
Wow, now you can afford to go out to eat in Bidens America