How To Assemble a Vegan Plate

Lab-grown chicken, vegan mac and cheese, animal-free ice cream, and more.

Enjoy the fruits of capitalism with The Goods, a regular series highlighting products that can make life a little bit better.

We live in boom times for vegan alternatives, with new plant-based meat and dairy products seemingly constantly cropping up at grocery stores nationwide. While the momentum around particularly ambitious meat alternatives has cooled in the past year or so, there's still steady growth in the market for vegan protein and dairy alternatives, and even a moderately stocked grocery store is likely to have dozens of plant-based goodies.

The ability to enjoy delightfully creamy ice cream or savory meat dishes without animal cruelty is a boon for my conscience—and my appetite. Capitalism wins again! In my experimental vegan household, we've tried just about every exciting (and weird) vegan product you can name. Here are my favorites.

Guilt-Free Tuna

It might sound weird, but the food I've missed the most since giving up meat three years ago has been tuna melt sandwiches. The only thing that comes close (chickpea tuna salad doesn't cut it) is the tuna pouches from Good Catch. While they're a little pricey, they still manage to regularly sneak their way into my grocery cart.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Lab-Grown Chicken

In August, I got to try lab-grown chicken at D.C.'s China Chilcano restaurant. While GOOD Meat's chicken is definitely better than any other plant-based meat I've tried, the texture is noticeably spongier than actual meat—and it certainly won't fool any devoted meat eaters.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Plant-Based Cream Cheese

Oatly cream cheese is the only good plant-based cream cheese I've ever had. While the plain flavor has a slightly sweet aftertaste, the chive version is absolute perfection that's almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Mushroom Steak

I'm normally not a huge mock-meat fan (I prefer tempeh and tofu), but I make an exception for Meati's plant-based steaks, which are made from mushrooms. The filets are delightful when smothered in gravy or plopped on a sandwich.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Vegan Mac and Cheese

Gal Gadot's boxed mac-and-cheese brand, Goodles, is the only vegan mac worth your money. The powdered cheese goodness is scarily similar to cult favorite Annie's Shells and White Cheddar and free of any funky aftertastes or textural wonkiness.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Lab-Grown Ice Cream

Every time I visit Cincinnati, I get Perfect Indulgence ice cream at Graeter's, a regional ice cream chain. The ice cream—made of lab-grown, "animal-free" dairy—stands out in a sea of icy, overly sweet vegan ice cream options.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Veggie Protein

Textured vegetable protein has got to be the most prepper-ish protein source out there. "TVP," as it is lovingly called in the vegan community, is made from soy flour and has a vaguely ground chicken–like texture. It's the perfect way to sneak extra protein into soups, pasta sauce, and—in my favorite preparation—well-seasoned and shallow-fried polenta cakes.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Animal-Free Milk

Even before going vegan, I wasn't a big milk drinker—the price tag on Bored Cow's animal-free dairy milk makes me hesitant to ditch my beloved soy milk anytime soon. Bored Cow uses the same tech as Perfect Indulgence to create real milk protein, but in a lab instead of in a cow. For this reason, it rivals most vegan milk varieties as a coffee creamer, and it's great for baking, making it a nice occasional treat.

(Illustration: Galich Ws/Fiverr)

Comments

[Mickey Rat]

But, why bother with these highly processed, dubious substitutes when the real thing is available?

Moral virtue signaling, and being a secular Pharisee is not any better a look than it is coming from a religious person.

[JesseAz]

Not only available, but in almost all cases cheaper.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Got it. Not only do *I* think it is moral to kill animals for food, but everyone else who disagrees with me is wrong and their morality is illegitimate and wrong *even for themselves*.

[Don't look at me!]

Like the non mask wearers?

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

99.999% of farm animals die a more humane death than wild animals, who are eaten alive or starve to death from injuries.

[mtrueman]

“99.999% of farm animals die a more humane death than wild animals”

Is that why you prefer farmed fish over fish taken from the wild?

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Get back to me when farmed fish make up more than .001% of farmed animals.

[mtrueman]

Why not now? You now have the choice between consuming humanely killed farmed fish or savagely killed wild fish. I suspect you choose the wild fish, exposing to all the insincerity of your virtue signaling.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

consuming humanely killed farmed fish or savagely killed wild fish.

This atheist does not abide your socially constructed morality, Mr. Harris.

[mtrueman]

The distinction between the gentle death of farm animals and the cruel death of wild animals is not one I made. Read the above comment of Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf if you doubt me. I was simply exposing the insincerity of his rationalizing.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

The only insincerity is Marxists pining for the peasants, and you are so used to faking sincerity yourself, you assume everyone else is too.

[mtrueman]

"you assume everyone else is too."

I'm saying your (not everyone's) concern over the suffering of animals is insincere. Your only response is to bluster and insult. ie, it's no response at all.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

You Marxist trash suspect everything individual.

[mtrueman]

You're unable to respond with anything but insults when I expose your hypocrisy.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Marxists live by the lie, you can die by the lie for all I care. Hypocrisy and insincerity are so normal for you, it's all you know.

[mtrueman]

More of the same.

[MrMxyzptlk]

A fish killed by a shark is an example of a violent and painful death. A fish caught in a net and tossed into a freezer is an example of a non violent death.

[mtrueman]

99.999% of farm animals die a more humane death than wild animals, who are eaten alive or starve to death from injuries.

[Zeb]

Sorry, but I can't be bothered to care about the feelings of fish.

[mtrueman]

I'm sure Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf shares your lack of feelings, but can't bring himself to admit it. Hence the charges of hypocrisy. All his talk about about the gentle deaths of farm animals is bullshit, and you're too chickenshit to call it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

What about trans-fish?

[MrMxyzptlk]

I cant be bothered to construct a delusion in which fish have feelings to care about.

[Public Entelectual]

Any frog can tell you fifty million crawfish can't be wrong.

[minnix]

Your point is irrelevant when death last but a moment. Don't forget that wild animals live a more humane life than farm animals.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Really? Maybe industrial farm animals have shitty lives, but a lot of small farmers take superb care of their animals, even the ones that ultimately are killed as humanely as possible for their meat.

We only have a few chickens, but they get fed better than wild birds, they are protected at night from predators, the live virtually "free range" (in a mobile "chicken tractor" that provides each chicken with about 15 square feet of space per chicken). Mrs Oblongata treats them basically like pets, right up until it's time to do them in. That she leaves to me, and I try to do it as quickly and humanely as possible. Not like a coyote would do.

[MrMxyzptlk]

Lives in the wild are nasty, brutish and short. Especially for critters lower on the food chain. Herbivores spend their time constantly ready to run if a predator is spotted, not to save all of them, but to save the young and strong. The old, newborn and weak are the ones eaten.

Domesticated animals have been bred for docility. They are as a rule more stupid than your typical Marxist. A cow will give birth in a blizzard on top of a hill and stand there until a human comes, saves the calf and drags the cow back to shelter.

Occasionally the calf will be born facing the wrong way and if not for the rancher both would die.

Domestic animals get vaccinations, vitamins, plenty of food and protection from predators.

Wild animals get starvation with a side of desperation and death.

[Mickey Rat]

I did not quite write that though, did I?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

Because Reason likes its food the way Anthony Fauci likes his viruses: Grown in a lab.

[Zeb]

I've never had a problem with feeling guilty about the food I eat. Anyway, how do they know plants don't have feelings too?

[TJJ2000]

Isn't it funny how the 'natural' everything mob has turned into the 'factory' grown/modified everything cheerleaders. I think when someone gets to that point of idiotic OCD they need to find better things to fill up their time with.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

Isn’t it funny how the ‘natural’ everything mob has turned into the ‘factory’ grown/modified everything cheerleaders.

This is an important, but overlooked fact. If these nutcases get their way, we'll all be living in a climate-controlled vat of amniotic fluid with our nutrients ingested via membrane.

[MrMxyzptlk]

There is something to the argument that synthetic products are superior to natural products but this does not include food.

Before we had plastics, turtle shells and ivory were popular materials for creating products that now are all made of plastic and thus millions of animals are alive today because we no longer need ivory and turtle shells. Whales were hunted for their fat until petroleum distillates became commercially viable. Before we had those distillates we used wood, charcoal and coal for heating, which while more energy dense than solar or wind power are wasteful when compared to natural gas, diesel and gasoline.

The list goes on where synthetic replacements have done wonders for our environment and the animals we share the world with.

The line to draw is at synthetic food sources. Perhaps in another 100,000 years homo sapiens will evolve to a point where we no longer need real meat, vegetables, grain and fruits. Then we can synthesize CHON from petroleum and the air around us to make a sludge those humans will consume and remain healthy. Today we are not at that point.

[Adans smith]

I'll pass, I'll be enjoying a nice ribeye at Road House tomorrow on my day off.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Texas Roadhouse?

Get a real job and/or move to a real town.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Why would anyone want to eat this adulterated crap? In order to make it taste somewhat like real meat, cheese, eggs, and milk, this stuff is loaded with extra chemicals that probably aren't good for you. Buy real meats, real cheeses, real eggs, and real milk that contain actual vitamins, amino acids, and minerals your body requires. Humans evolved to eat meat products, not adulterated vegan shit.

[Don't look at me!]

Humans evolved to eat meat products,

This.

[mad.casual]

Humans evolved to eat meat products, not adulterated vegan shit.

Fun Factoid(s):
Humans, that evolved to eat meat, have a per person lapsed vegan to actual vegan ratio* of ~3:1.
Humans, that are supposedly non-monogamous and/or genderfluid, have a per person married to divorce ratio of more than 2:1 (the evidence that, for same sex couples, especially lesbians, the ratio is closer to 1:2 exists but is nowhere near as strong or conceptually unified).

*In the West, where they generally have a choice.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

*In the West, where they generally have a choice.

... to shower 40 times a year...

[mad.casual]

The lesbian factoid* is actually really hilarious because (and apparently Camille Paglia touched on something along these lines some time ago) it seems like M/F marriages, per person, outnumber M/F divorces by 2:1 and M/M marriage/divorce ratios are between 2:1 and 1:1, but lesbian marriage/divorce ratios are through the roof.

It’s almost like 60s era feminism was the Wuhan Institute of Virology for modern social contagions.

*Caveat emptor – Sparse data, new marriages, not every state that performs a given marriage records the divorce, etc., etc., etc. the answer isn't 6.352:1 divorced/married F/F women, but the data is pretty clear that, like vegans, there are fewer married lesbians than there are divorced lesbians.

[mad.casual]

Er, lesbian divorce/marriage ratios are through the roof.

[mtrueman]

"Why would anyone want to eat this adulterated crap?"

They don't want to eat animal products, and they don't have the time, knowledge or inclination to make their own substitutes. I tend to agree that eschewing meat only to take up heavily processed, additive laden and costly substitutes is not the best choice.

"Humans evolved to eat meat products,"

Humans can also survive and thrive on a vegan diet. The notion that we have to eat meat to live healthily is proven wrong.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

With the proper application of technology, we could genetically engineer and reconstitute our belly buttons, growing a new umbilical cord (lab grown, natch) and get our vegan nutrient paste injected directly into our body in a kind of semi-liquified slurry.

[mtrueman]

That sort of thing will be the norm if we attempt to colonize the moon or other planets. Also insects rather than cows and pigs. Meanwhile back on earth, I'm content with more traditional fare, like fruit, vegetables and grains. I suggest you try them if you haven't already, and your religion allows it.

[Idaho-Bob]

and your religion allows it

The irony of this statement coming from a vegan.

[mtrueman]

Religion is the set of beliefs and practices that are followed to give people access to supernatural world. Like praying, or burning candles. The idea that veganism is a religion is nothing more than a ruse by meat eaters desperate to avoid confronting their own hypocrisy. And yes, my statement was meant as irony. Well spotted.

[Mickey Rat]

As veganism is somewhat hard to do without screwing yourself up nutritionally, it is usually justified by some kind of moral appeal. Moral appeals tend ro motivated by a religious impulse, tied to a philosophy.

[mtrueman]

"As veganism is somewhat hard to do without screwing yourself up nutritionally,"

Getting adequate nutrition in a vegan diet isn't particularly hard. Eating a wide variety of non animal products will take care of that. There are also a wide variety of non animal supplements available if you feel the urge.

What's much much harder is the social aspect. Eating is a social phenomenon, and you throw a vegan into the mix at a family feast and problems will certainly arise.

"veganism is usually justified by some kind of moral appeal"

So is meat eating. Meat eating is justified by the fact that the animals eaten are slaughtered humanely, and they live happier lives than wild animals, and so on. It's a matter or morality, or ethics.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

So is meat eating. Meat eating is justified by the fact that the animals eaten are slaughtered humanely, and they live happier lives than wild animals, and so on. It’s a matter or morality, or ethics.

No it's not. I eat meat because it tastes fucking good, and it's one of the easiest way to get protein in my diet, while satisfying my taste buds.

Any consideration about the morality of one choice or the other becomes a religious exercise.

[mtrueman]

" I eat meat because it tastes fucking good"

It's still a moral stance. In this case, if it feels good, that's all the license you need. It's a rather frivolous and childlike morality, in my opinion, but you're certainly not alone.

"a religious exercise."

I disagree. The choice whether or not to eat meat is based, for many vegans, on the desire to avoid inflicting suffering on animals. Religion is about how we can interact with the supernatural.

[MrMxyzptlk]

The problem with Vegans is they have chosen Team Animals and see themselves as the moral and ethical equivalent of a cow.

I am on Team America. Cows are not my equal. They are so far below me they are food.

Arabs are below me because they treat women like crap and murder people who don't share their religion. They aren't far enough below me to eat them. But I don't cry when they get blown to hell.

Humans chose teams. It's what we do. When you decide that every living being in the world is moraly and ethically the same as you what meager resources you have get spread so thin over those bazillions of lives that you can't do anything practical for them.

When you chose a smaller team your efforts and resources can effectively change the circstances for those beings on your team.

Is my team perfect? No. But I don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. If my team nuked the middle east and developed an oil drilling rig to go through six feet of radioactive glass I would be fine with it. Their women would be better off dead and they won't be burning atheists in cages anymore. Win win.

[mtrueman]

"Is my team perfect? No. "

So, which team is better than Team America and presumably has the right to eat you? And you do you really feel that you can eat vegans because they are part of Team Animal along with cows etc?

It's commendable that you have no desire to eat Arabs, we can agree on that. But can I ask how old you are? There are 8 year olds who are sharper than this.

[Mickey Rat]

Humans do not strictly have to eat animal products in order to thrive, but a balanced diet which includes such is the easiest way for a human to thrive

[MrMxyzptlk]

There is no Mark I standard human. There are those of us who can't drink milk or eat ice cream. There are those of us allergic to seafood (I have much pity for them). There are those of us who can actually thrive on a vegan diet. There those of us who can process the fats found in meats better than others of us. I've known people who eat fatty meats and have low cholesterol levels while others who think about a cheese burger and their triglycerides spike.

There is no one diet fits all. Vegans just can't seem to understand this basic truth of life. That makes them crazy. I do wonder if their low fat bodies would make good cheeseburgers...

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Maybe, if you mix in some beef fat.

[mad.casual]

Fuck that, just label it "Grass fed long pig" and sell it for twice as much.

[MrMxyzptlk]

Good idea. I do that when I cook venison. Grass finished beef may be all the rage for city folk but give me good old grain finished beef with a nice layer of fat. Otherwise it tastes like venison.

[mad.casual]

I’ve known people who eat fatty meats and have low cholesterol levels while others who think about a cheese burger and their triglycerides spike.

Uh, you don't have to eat meats or even just fats to get a triglyceride spike, your liver actually produces it in response to blood glucose, that's why you're asked to fast entirely for a blood draw and not just avoid fat or meats. Typically, that's the tell with blood chemistry, if your Trig levels are sky high and your blood glucose/A1c is reasonable, you didn't fast. Now, if you slam down a bunch of saturated fats 20 min. before your draw, yeah, your blood comes out looking like a strawberry milkshake and *that's* a dead giveaway too, but high triglycerides is not unique to meat or fat consumption. Also, along the same lines, it's pretty well established that your low cholesterol levels have nothing to do with dietary cholesterol itself.

Mrs. Casual's fasted, baseline (not taking statins) serum cholesterol levels have been in the 380-400 mg/dL (<180 being 'normal') range, with 150 mg/dL (normal) Trig levels since I met her.

There is no Mark I standard human. There are those of us who can’t drink milk or eat ice cream.

Disagree. Just because you happen to be Mark 0.8 doesn't mean that the Mark I (or higher) model doesn't exist. 🙂

[mad.casual]

Imagine changing your diet such that the consequences of it are not felt by you or even your children, but your children's children. Like, it's one thing to not be able to digest milk yourself and to requisitely avoid it. It's another thing to not eat cooked green beans just because you don't like them, but it's a very different... and insanely egomaniacal, egomaniacal beyond Trump's wildest dreams... thing to (try to) swear off something for life with the expectations that all humans would, could, or should do it.

Pottenger's Cats
Pottenger used donated laboratory cats to test the potency of the adrenal extract hormones he was making. The adrenal glands of these cats were removed for the experiments. He was feeding the cats a diet consisting of raw milk, cod liver oil and cooked meat scraps.[3] When the number of donated cats exceeded the supply of food available, Pottenger began ordering raw meat scraps from a local meat packing plant, including organs, meat, and bone; and fed a separate group of cats from this supply. Within months this separate group appeared in better health than the cooked meat group.[3] Their kittens were more energetic and their post-operative death rate was lower. The results interested Pottenger and he decided to conduct a series of feeding experiments. The experiments involved approximately 900 cats over a period of 10 years, with four generations of cats being studied. Pottenger kept records for 600 cats, but 300 were not recorded.[4]

One group of cats was fed a diet of two-thirds raw meat, one-third raw milk, and cod-liver oil while the second group was fed a diet of two-thirds cooked meat, one-third raw milk, and cod-liver oil. In 1946, Pottenger reported his results that the cats fed the raw diet were healthy while the cats fed the cooked meat diet developed various health problems. Pottenger reported that the cats which were fed cooked meat and pasteurized milk suffered from impaired growth, increased birth defects and lowered fertility. He stated that their deterioration included "germ plasm injury" causing them to pass acquired anatomical defects to their offspring.[4] However, the idea of acquired characteristics has been discredited.[5]

In 1985, Pottenger's results were criticized for "lacking scientific validity".[4] William T. Jarvis and Edward Kravitz commented that Pottenger's study was "overloaded with subjective observations and generalizations that render it unscientific. His overall inference that cooking meat made it unhealthful for cats is contradicted by the fact that all commercial cat foods are cooked."[4]

At the time of Pottenger's studies the amino acid taurine had been discovered but had not yet been identified as an essential amino acid for cats.[6] Today many cats thrive on a cooked meat diet where taurine has been added after cooking. The deficient diets lacked sufficient taurine to allow the cats to properly form protein structures and resulted in the health effects observed. Pottenger himself concluded that there was likely an "as yet unidentified, heat‐labile protein factor".[6] In 2014, Robert Davidson wrote that the "deficiencies Pottenger identified in cats correspond with those of a taurine deficiency and are the direct result of the lack of taurine in the feline diet".[6]

The ethics of Pottenger's studies have been questioned.[7]

[Randy Sax]

"I'm normally not a huge mock-meat fan (I prefer tempeh and tofu)"

I appreciate this comment. I don't like tempeh and tofu, (they taste like mold to me) but at least she isn't shelling the bullshit impossible meat stuff. I hate the videos where they hand someone a shitty McDonalds burger and a shitty fake meat burger and the guy says "oh, they taste the same!". And then they claim "this stuff is the future". Maybe for shit-meat. Make any good homemade burger or get one at place that isn't fast food and it will blow the fake shit out of the water.

[MrMxyzptlk]

It was Burger King that went with the meatless burger. My brother and his fellow cattlemen decided to never eat there again. Not that McDonald's is much better.

[ducksalad]

"How to Assemble a Vegan Plate"

Pick a young one that's been responsibly harvested, and don't overcook it.

[markm23]

I was waiting for someone to make that joke...

[Idaho-Bob]

Veganism is a first world virtue signal and nothing more.

If someone wants to be vegan, cool, but don't come at me with the "meat is murder" bullshit, or "cows are destroying the climate" AOC tripe.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Disaffected, bigoted, superstitious, delusional, bitter clingers are among my favorite culture war casualties.

[Zeb]

When I was in college, a student from Kenya wrote a great opinion piece about just that in response to a bunch of “meat is murder” types. For a lot of societies, meat (or in this case, all of the good things derived from cattle) is life.

[minnix]

Veganism is a first world virtue signal and nothing more.

That doesn't make a lot of sense considering how many vegan Hindus and Buddhists live in third world countries.

[MrMxyzptlk]

The people of the third world have been spending a long time developing into a culture of poverty and starvation. Anyone with the genetics that can’t survive on that starvation semi vegan diet just dies along with the millions of others who die from starvation, disease, lack of clean water and a thousand other ways to die in the third world.

If vegans won and we were all forced into that depraved lifestyle then we would have massive die offs as well. Which I suspect vegans would be fine with since they love animals and hate humans.

[mad.casual]

If someone wants to be vegan, cool,

[tilts hand] In the 70s when you didn't eat meat or wear leather because you were a hippie that believed in the animal spirits, maybe. In the 21st when you are almost certainly someone who forces your partner to be vegan, would force your kids to be vegan if the world weren't already overpopulated, and maybe inflicts veganism on your cats or excuses them because... have you SEEN cats? No. You're like the deaf people who hope their kids are born deaf so they don't obliterate the deaf way of life. Not cool.

One of my college roommates was a vegan. He dated a girl (all the way through school) that didn't believe in (even) pre-marital *public displays of affection*. Again I say, not cool.

[Longtobefree]

" . . . with new plant-based meat and dairy products . . . "

With new marketing ploys is more like it.
If you want to be a vegetarian, eat vegetables, not a bunch of chemistry experiments.

(That leaves more meat for us carnivores)

[Azathoth!!]

Eat virtuously.

Eat factory based, highly processed vegetables that simulate the taste and texture of what you WANT to be eating.

I simply cannot imagine what it does to a person to live ones entire life as a lie.

[ducksalad]

The people you're describing (including Emma) are the soft-core vegans.

The hard-core vegans reject the meat substitutes. They view them as indulging a fundamentally illegitimate desire. They believe you should not only stop eating meat, you should hate the part of yourself that wants meat, and engage in a continuous battle to cleanse your mind of impure thoughts.

They also tend, as they reach higher levels of "development", to reject things like sugar, fats/oils, and salt, even if organic, non-exploitative, fair-traded, etc. The reason is those things encourage a mindset that is looking for oral/olfactory pleasure in food, when one should be only looking for the most ethical food. You can only be sure you made that choice if there is no conflict of interest, e.g. sensual enjoyment.

No, really. I know one of these people.

[mtrueman]

"No, really. I know one of these people."

I know more than one of these people, and I think you've got it wrong. It's not a rejection of taking pleasure in food, but a quest for purity. Vegan Joaquin Phoenix, when making The Gladiator, insisted that the leather sandals he was given to wear be replaced with a vegan alternative. That's done out of a desire for purity and sticking to principles rather than a self imposed punishment of denying the pleasure of wearing leather sandals.

[ducksalad]

I can understand the no leather sandals as a quest for purity, and I agree that's a large part of it.

But refusing avocado oil, or trying to eliminate salt (for someone who if anything has hypotension)? There's something more going on.

[mtrueman]

"There’s something more going on."

I agree with you there. Our culture since William Blake and the Romantic Age seems more and more sensitive to smaller and smaller differences. Vegetarianism, women's rights and sexual freedom, anti slavery, animal rights, human rights, nationalist sentiment, political/social reform all got their foothold in this period and have only grown stronger since.

[Zeb]

Trying to eliminate salt? That's a good way to die. There's a reason (besides flavor) that salt has been a major commodity throughout history.

[mtrueman]

Some people avoid chemical additives to salt or limit their intake to kosher salt or Himalayan salt, etc. Salt is a mineral so vegans, who make it a point to avoid animal products, should have no problem with consuming salt unless there are other concerns. I said earlier that ducksalad is wrong on the issue despite his knowing a vegan.

[Zeb]

So it's a religious movement.

[Brandybuck]

> How To Assemble a Vegan Plate

BUT WHY?!?!?!!?

Should we treat animals better? Yes! Should we eat less meat? Certainly. Should a lot of industrial animal production be changed? Probably.

But the answer is not a religion. Vegan is a religion. A religion that is not a rebranded vegetarianism, but goes much much further. No animal byproducts at all, including honey (because bees are animals). Furthermore, Vegans engage in unending proselytization. They're trying to convert people, not a lifestyle, or membership in a club, but to a religious community.

I've got no problem eating meat and animal byproducts when the animals were treated humanely. Wild honey, I got no problem with it. Small farm dairy? No problem. Free range eggs, no problem.

Veganism is a bunch of affluent Karens trying to impose their boutique choices on the whole of society. It's insulting to the poor that they are told to eat expensive organic Vegan foods. It's disgusting when these Karens cheer on food deserts in poor neighborhoods. They need to bugger off.

[mtrueman]

" Vegan is a religion."

No, a religion is a set of beliefs and practices that supposedly allow us to interact with the supernatural world. Veganism is simply the choice to eschew the use of animal products.

"Furthermore, Vegans engage in unending proselytization.'

That doesn't make it a religion. Many businesses spend billions promoting themselves and their products to convert non customers into customers. They are not a religion, either.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

No, a religion is a set of beliefs and practices that supposedly allow us to interact with the supernatural world. Veganism is simply the choice to eschew the use of animal products.

When you push it for the rest of humanity and make it entirely faith-based with the idea that you'll be on the right side of heaven history if you make that choice, it gets very religion-like.

[mtrueman]

"When you push it for the rest of humanity and make it entirely faith-based "

It's not faith-based. Veganism comes down to the ethics based decision to avoid inflicting unnecessary suffering on animals. I presume you avoid eating dog or human meat. Would you call that entirely faith-based choice? You only resort to words like faith-based or religion to denigrate the practice that you see as somehow illegitimate, but are unable to explain why.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

t’s not faith-based. Veganism comes down to the ethics based decision to avoid inflicting unnecessary suffering on animals.

Take it down a notch, preacher. This is the Reason comment section, not a tent revival.

[mtrueman]

The choice between inflicting suffering on animals and not inflicting suffering on animals is not a matter of religion, nor is it faith based. You only use these terms to insult and belittle those who make an ethical choice different from yours. Otherwise they are devoid of content.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul. they/them)]

"ethical". Define that.

[mtrueman]

I already defined religion for you. Your turn to define ethical for me.

[MrMxyzptlk]

Supernatural aspects aren't required for something to be religious. Dogmatic followers regurgitating mindless pap is a feature of religion and vegans have plenty of that.

[mtrueman]

"Supernatural aspects aren’t required for something to be religious."

It's the only thing required for something to be religious. There are religions that make do without God, without a myth on the origin of the universe, without a holy text, without a moral code, without a sabbath, without a priesthood, without special holidays, and so on. Choose any religion, it may not have the features above but it will certainly have beliefs and practices that allow practitioners to interface with the supernatural.

Your misunderstanding lies in your conflation of dogmatism and religion. Sure vegans can be dogmatic. That doesn't make veganism a religion.

[Medulla Oblongata]

No, it's probably not a religion.

But it just as obnoxious as the guy who says "Are you saved?" or "Do you have Jesus in your life?" among the first few words they speak to you. Vegans usually don't last 5 minutes before they have to tell you all about it.

[MrMxyzptlk]

I think requiring a supernatural element for something to be a religion limits the term far too much. Faith is the telling factor in a religion. Look at the trailer park Christian who spends their life praising Jesus and praying to their god. Their life continues to circle the toilet bowl and never gets better but do they start to ask if maybe their god is fake? No, They double down and pray harder. Skepticism isn't welcome in a religion.

Vegans have faith that meat is not part of a well balanced diet regardless of the number of vegans who return to meat eating every year. I read the account of one vegan woman who was raising her daughters to be vegan. She gave up because her young daughters would run off to the dairy case in the supermarket and when she caught up to them they had boxes of butter open and were eating it like candy bars.

[mtrueman]

" Faith is the telling factor in a religion. "

Faith is also the telling factor that those pieces of paper in your wallet can be exchanged for coffee and a doughnut or that the numbers the calculator gives you are correct or that your wife will return home after her day in the office. Faith is a part of religion, but it's also part of science and everything else we do. You won't get far in science if you have no faith in the measuring instruments you use.

"Vegans have faith that meat is not part of a well balanced diet "

Vegans can manage quite well without faith. It's discipline they need if their veganism is to be more than a passing phase. In this respect they are no different from a martial artist, or someone in a creative field. Young daughters? You can't expect someone barely passed toilet training to be a model of discipline. That takes maturity, resolve, capacity to forego temptations, abstract thought and so on. Some children are strongly drawn to veganism through an emotional attachment to animals and horror at the thought of harming them. Some do this on their own without anyone older in the family prodding them on in that direction. That's clearly not where these two young daughters were coming from, nor their mother, by the sound of it.

[mad.casual]

mtrueman is every inch the same "It's more important that I win than be correct or honest." and "Spewing dishonesty is an end unto itself." tar baby as sarcasmic.

Do not engage. If you must engage, purge with fire.

[mtrueman]

More personal invective. Nothing of substance.

"Do not engage."

Physician, heal thyself. And while you're at it physician, save your inane comments for somebody else.

[minnix]

I don't believe veganism is a religion but I am perfectly in sync with you when it comes to being a meat eater who believes in treating animals humanely. I hunt and fish, but I have no qualms about it as I know the animals lived their lives as wild animals should, not in a tiny box littered with their own feces and pumped full of hormones and drugs. I care about the welfare of animals, but I also eat them. I don't see this as a contradiction.

[JFree]

Eat food. Not anything with a food label.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'How To Assemble a Vegan Plate
Lab-grown chicken, vegan mac and cheese, animal-free ice cream, and more.'

Gather all these things, prepare them and your table, and then shoot yourself.*

*In Canada, make sure to get official approval and assistance.

[Dillinger]

knock yourself out but I fear for your health.

[mulched]

Why do you hate us this much?!

[sarcasmic]

How to disassemble a vegan plate: throw it at the wall and walk away.

[MrMxyzptlk]

Well, this is an author I won't be paying attention to anymore. Vegans don't get certain B complex vitamins because they are a result of the bacteria interacting with grasses in the multi stomachs of various herbivores. A lack of those vitamins leads to certain mental problems.

[Public Entelectual]

Proper "How To Assemble a Vegan Plate" recipes begin:
After catching a vegan and washing it thoroughly, let it feed on a diet of foi gras and Vichy water for five days to purge it of grit and gluten.

[mad.casual]

Guilt-Free Tuna

You mean like the tuna just told his wife he blew all his money on instant lottery tickets rather than lying and saying he got mugged?

[Medulla Oblongata]

How do you know someone is vegan?

Don't worry, they'll tell you within 5 minutes of meeting you.

[MrMxyzptlk]

That is why Veganism is a religion. They can't help but try to save you from your sinful ways.

[brec]

I like the Eat Meati mushroom-root-derived “steak” pictured. I’m a pesco-vegan — salmon 3x/week, otherwise all plants. Almost all “whole food”; the Eat Meati is an exception.

I won’t bother y’all with my motivations; I'm don't care what you eat, and don't think anyone here would be persuaded even if I did.

[MrMxyzptlk]

Salmon that often? How do you afford that?

[brec]

Yes, wild-caught salmon is expensive.

BTW, so are the Eat Meati products.

[GroundTruth]

Why?

Life is tough enough as is. Going vegan removes one of the few joys we have left.

[AT]

How To Assemble a Vegan Plate

See the thing is it's not really a "plate." You just punch them in the face.