Florida Bill Would Make Allegations of Race Discrimination 'Defamation Per Se'
The state Senate bill, which is extremely similar to another House proposal, aims to scrap major First Amendment protections in defamation cases.

A recently introduced bill in the Florida Senate seeks to remake defamation law, scraping major constitutional protections for disparaging speech. It's extremely similar to another proposed law introduced in the state House in 2023. Both bills seek to widen the legal definition of defamation in Florida in order to punish constitutionally protected speech.
Introduced last week, Senate Bill 1780 proposes several major changes to Florida defamation law. Like its House counterpart, the bill would significantly narrow the definition of a public figure in defamation suits, excluding non-elected or appointed public employees and individuals who gained notoriety by publicly defending themselves against an accusation, giving an interview, or being the subject of a viral "video, image, or statement uploaded on the Internet."
Under S.B. 1780, individuals in these circumstances wouldn't have to prove "actual malice," a standard set in the 1964 Supreme Court case New York Times v. Sullivan, when launching defamation suits.
In addition, the bill seeks to widen the circumstances in which fact-finders must infer actual malice in a defamation case, including when the alleged defamatory statement is "based wholly on an unverified anonymous report." It also mandates that any claim made by an anonymous source be assumed false during defamation suit proceedings.
By far the most controversial proposal in the bill is the provision that states allegations of discrimination "against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity [constitute] defamation per se"—essentially meaning that when these allegations are false, they are automatically defamatory.
But the bill also makes it harder for defendants to prove the truth of their allegations of discrimination on the basis of gender identity or sexual orientation. The bill specifically states that appeals to the allegedly defamed person's religious or scientific beliefs don't count.
In all, this latest bill is merely the latest entry in a long slate of Florida legislation aimed at eroding well-established First Amendment protections. However, Florida Republicans' efforts to change defamation law—just like their attacks on other First Amendment-protected speech—are unlikely to survive a legal challenge if these bills pass. Both this latest Senate bill and its counterpart in the state House blatantly and repeatedly violate constitutional precedent.
If there's any danger in these laws, it's that they may be used as a test case to challenge existing defamation protections.
"There have been some in conservative circles, including Justice Thomas, who have wanted there to be a test case to revisit Times v. Sullivan," Joe Cohn, the legislative and policy director at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, told Reason last February. "And I think there are lawmakers out there that want to provide legislation that contradicts the existing case law as an invitation for courts to send that up the chain. And it's tremendously chilling of speech."
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'Liberals' hardest hit.
THAT'S RACIST
Isn't defamation the whole point of 99.99% of racism allegations?
Yes.
Also, since hate crimes are a thing and hate speech can be shadow-banned aren't we really scrapping more of the hollowed out pieces of major constitutional protections for disparaging speech rather than the whole thing?
According to racists it is. Decent people don't make such assumptions. Nor, for that matter, do normal people.
You want to know who's actually racist? The garbage people telling everyone that blacks are too dumb to obtain ID, and that math, showing up for work on time, and paying their bills is outside their abilities. Garbage people like you, you piece of shit.
Right. Racism doesn't exist, but if it does it's not the neo-Nazis, Patriot Front, or anyone else on the far right that are racists. It's the left.
Your ability to ignore the things you don't want to see while building fantasies where cultural conservatives are the heroes and only people from the center-right to the far left perpetrate evil is mind-boggling.
Meet Nelson. He speaks for:
1. decent people
2. normal people
3. racists
4. ?
I only speak for myself. My observation on the vast gulf detween decent, normal people and Mother's Lament is a whole lot more reasonable than "Isn’t defamation the whole point of 99.99% of racism allegations?".
False statements against a person is defamation. I see issues with how this could be implemented, but Emma seems to be concerned with the concept of courts being able to identify defamation and defendants can't brush off their blatant malice.
I'm also concerned with the speech issues presented here, but I get the impression she's more upset with having less room to defame those she hates with the blatant lies she typically spreads
"False statements against a person is defamation"
I agree, although I don't think that's a legal standard. In a decent society such statements should be required to be proven intentionally false. Apparently under this law, anything not determined to be clearly true is not merely undetermined, it's assumed to be malicious.
"concerned with the concept of courts being able to identify defamation and defendants can’t brush off their blatant malice"
Let's unpack that. The proposal is for "allegations of discrimination "against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity [constitute] defamation per se"".
So an allegation is now just assumed to be defamatory unless proven otherwise? Malice is implied if someone believes there is discriminatory actions and says so? An honest allegation that isn't proved true, but also isn't proved false, is now malicious defamation?
"I’m also concerned with the speech issues presented here,"
Apparently not, since you seem to think this isn't a terrible bill based on a clear desire by cultural conservatives to chill speech by those who disagree with them.
This is a weapon designed to be used against people who allege bigotry on the part of those who, for example, support bigoted laws like "Don't Say Gay". We all know they're bigots, but if you say so out loud it's automatically malicious, not an opinion protected by the First Amendment.
The level of hostility cultural conservatives have towards the Constitution is mindboggling. And liberty. And freedom.
It's also a sad commentary on their fragility, lack of emotional maturity, and oversensitive feelings, but they've been whiny snowflakes for my entire adult life.
Sounds Marxist to me.
Of course, such a statement is not intended to be declaratory, e.g. you are a Marxist, and a mendacious one to boot.
But I will give you credit for adhering to your template well.
Yes, the unwavering proponent of free market capitalism is a Marxist. Do you make an effort to say ridiculous things or does it just happen whenever you talk?
Nelson, this is the same section as claiming someone has a venereal disease is defamation per se. This is still subject to the burden of proof that it is false and the defense about knowing that it is false. The only difference is that you don't have to prove damages.
"She accused me of being racist and now all my work has dried up". This still would be subject to defenses of truth, opinion, and if public figures, the actual malice standard.
The only change is that you don't have to prove you lost a job due to the accusation.
"This is still subject to the burden of proof that it is false and the defense about knowing that it is false. The only difference is that you don’t have to prove damages."
Not true at all. First, there's this: "It also mandates that any claim made by an anonymous source be assumed false during defamation suit proceedings.". Not proved false, assumed false.
Second, I'm not a lawyer but I don't think it matters whether it's true or false. People can believe (and say) false things without repercussions.
For example, an anti-abortionist can call a Planned Parenthood doctor "a murderer". That is demonstrably false. But the doctor can't sue the anti-aboertionist for defamation, even if they say it in front of the doctor's boss, her patients, her family, or her priest. But under this law, she could. Defamation is a lot more than just saying false things about someone. Up until now it has required an intent to hurt the person (the "actual malice standard).
"“She accused me of being racist and now all my work has dried up”. This still would be subject to defenses of truth, opinion, and if public figures, the actual malice standard."
No, it wouldn't. That is the point and the purpose of this bill. "Under S.B. 1780, individuals in these circumstances wouldn't have to prove "actual malice,"".
Free speech doesn't only protect true speech. That's why people like ThomasD can call me a Marxist, which is both false and a terrible thing, and I can't sue him for defamation. But in Florida, if the cultural conservative authoritarians have their way, the requirement to prove malice is gone.
So if I make an honest accusation of racism, sexism, religious bigotry, or anti-trans bigotry against someone, since there wouldn't be a requirement for malice, that statement would "[constitute] defamation per se".
Like I said, I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps the removal of the "actual malice" requirement, the assumption of falsehood for anonymous statements, and the various other elements of this bill aren't intended to chill speech and allow for an explosion of defamation lawsuits against people who say mean things. But I doubt it.
Republicans never were the party of smaller government, but remember when they at least *pretended* they were? No more.
No argument on policy? Check.
Attacks opponent? Check.
Democrat? Check.
Exactly when in history do you think the Republicans were a party of small government. Lincoln was the first Republican, he certainly wasn't for smaller government or states rights. He fought a war to prove the federal government could kick around state governments. He sent the Army to keep the Maryland Legislature from going with the Confederacy.
Richard Nixon created the EPA and forced wage and price controls on the nation.
I won't say anything about Saint Ronald because I don't want to see that much name calling however he did sign no fault divorce into law.
The Bush Family. Nuff Said.
Donald Trump. The Republican Party did everything in their power to keep him from getting the nomination and then stabbed him in the back when he won.
I'm not seeing a track record of small government here.
While you explain it well; You've yet to recognize the difference between a RINO (Republican in name only) who is in-line with Democrats and an actual Republican. The term RINO wasn't born out of nowhere.
I'm just pointing out what the party put forward as candidates and how they were almost universally big government.
This is when you point to Ron Paul and say,"Hey, we've got Ron Paul!" Like it really matters.
Correct. But until Libertarian-Republicans get their rightful recognition as actual platform supporters the right is still far better than the left who platform is entirely a [Na]tional So[zi]alist conquering of the USA.
So "real" Republicans are the ones that almost never get elected to high office and pretty much never have any power? Fair enough if that's what you want to claim. But it still makes the party useless when it comes to making government smaller.
The Trump Administration did more than any in the last century. There's still some hope there.
Lawrence v. Texas (2003) had Republicans arguing that the government had a legitimate interest in incarcerating men for being gay.
Just two years ago you had Thomas saying he still thought the government should do that, and would relish a shot at reversing Lawrence.
So no. I can't say I remember when Republicans were pretending to be small government.
Republicans are in favor of small government in fiscal matters. They absolutely aren’t in favor of small government in social and cultural matters.
Cultural conservatives have needed a large government to enforce book bans, abortion bans, gay marriage bans, contraception bans, gay adoption bans, parental medical decision-making (only for “bad things”, though!), gay sex bans, interracial marriage bans, etc., etc., etc. It takes a lot of government to coerce people into living their lives the way cultural conservatives demand.
Any time a Republican says they are in favor of small government, they are lying.
Is it OK to use the word "negro" now?
I have a Bro-Pass so I can say nigger.
Unclear whether your use of the Hard-R™ constitutes copyright infringement.
Colored greens
As opposed to collared people?
Where did I see that line... Brickleberry?
You have to use a soft ‘a’ and roll the ‘R’, Neh-grrrrro. Like rrrridiculo.
Has it been not OK? Seems like a hard case to make that the word MLK and many others used is somehow a slur. I've always thought of it as just outdated and old-timey.
if you use an outdated and old-timey word, it proves that you want to go back to the old-timey times when Jim Crow was the law. At least, I think that would be the argument of the woke on this point (assuming they believed in arguing with people who disagreed with them rather than just forcing us to comply).
In addition, the bill seeks to widen the circumstances in which fact-finders must infer actual malice in a defamation case, including when the alleged defamatory statement is "based wholly on an unverified anonymous report."
"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".
Deal with it Emma.
Absolutely. There's a great Dilbert comic about unamed sources.
We should be able to face our accusers. Even when it isn't in a court of law.
Common law is truly dead. We are using the legislature to enforce behavior on others. To ensure, over time, that every action will be prohibited unless it is previously approved by a legislature.
"We are using the legislature to enforce behavior on others."
LOLOLOLLOLOLLLOLL.
Pronoun police hardest hit.
Ok, I read it twice now. I don't get it. What the hell is it actually doing and who is it doing it to? I am not a lawyer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Sad to say, I must agree with you! "Shitty crap is being done to them, by the others!!!" WTF, this is shedding just about ZERO light here!!! Who is doing what to whom? Also, how, and why?
Reading through, what look like the key provisions of the bill to me are:
1) Under normal circumstances, a public figure has to prove a false statement was made with "actual malice" in order to win a defamation case. Florida hereby defines "actual malice" to include all cases where the false statement was either entirely made up by the author, or attributed by the author to an anonymous source whose actual existence the author fails to demonstrate to the court. (If the statement can be shown to be true, the source doesn't matter, because truth is always a defense against defamation.)
2) False accusations that someone engaged in discrimination on the basis of race, sex, orientation, or gender identity are considered to be defamatory by nature, and thus always legally actionable. (This, I believe, mostly shuts down defense arguments of the form "The plaintiff is really popular with bigots, so accusing him of bigoted actions doesn't actually hurt him.")
3) Simply showing that someone has certain religious or scientific beliefs is not legally sufficient in a defamation case to demonstrate that accusations the person engaged in discrimination on the basis of race, sex, orientation, or gender identity are true.
4) It is assumed in defamation cases that any statement the author attributed to an anonymous source is false unless and until demonstrated otherwise.
5) A "public figure" for one defamation case is no longer automatically a "public figure" for all defamation cases. A "public figure" can win a defamation case under the normal standards for private figures, if the false statement made against them was unrelated to the reason they are a public figure.
"... or attributed by the author to an anonymous source whose actual existence the author fails to demonstrate to the court."
There goes the ability of news reporters to report what anonymous whistle-blowers had to say. There also goes "innocent till proven guilty"!!! Those are VERY high prices to pay, to enable "Team R" to pussy-grab the "libs"! Government Almighty KNOWS this is SNOT about allowing the "libs" to pussy-grab "Team R", since Government Almighty already laughs loudly, whenever "Team R" calls the "libs" racists!!! This is because "everyone knows" that "libs" are genetically incapable of being REAL racists, dontchaknow?
Okay, let me engage with this utter moron for just a moment before I go back to muting his idiocy.
No, it doesn't. They just have to either show the reports were true (which, of course, is why defendants in court are empowered to compel discovery) or reveal their source in court.
If there was an actual whistleblower who told the reporter the truth, the reporter will, of course, be able to tell his lawyers exactly what documents and witnesses to subpoena to demonstrate the truth of the claims. The idiots suing him for defamation will, as a result, very publicly lose their baseless lawsuit.
If there was an actual whistleblower who lied to the reporter, all the reporter has to do is reveal the name of the liar to the court, which is exactly what the liar deserves.
And if there was no actual whistleblower, well, the reporter will lose the case, exactly as he deserves.
"Innocent till proven guilty" is a principle of criminal law, not civil. It accordingly has not applied to even a single defamation lawsuit in the United States, ever, in its entire history.
Like Trump vs the woman who made an incredulous claim about Trump raping her decades ago and then won a defamation suit over him publicly defending himself
“Innocent till proven guilty” is a principle of criminal law, not civil.
There goes my immunity from defamation suits given to me by religion! "We are all sinners, because God told me so"! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
"We are all RACISTS, because God told me so"! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
WHY in Government Almighty's Holy Name should the above two cases be treated ANY differently? WHY do you LUST so badly and so baldly, after justifying the power piggery of Government Almighty?
Too late. He muted your nonsense again.
Twat, by it muting me, it makes what I say be NOT true?
"Nanny, nanny, boo-boo, I can't hear you!!!"
Much easier to understand. I see some issues here, but certainly less than what Emma is trying to sell. Overall it seems the goal is to prevent a malicious media from character assassination. I remember issues going back to Trayvon Martin where people were playing fast and loose with designations of private/public in the interest of avoiding defamation for objectively false statements
I was thinking of Nick Sandman and that Nurse Practitioner in NYC who lost her job when she wouldn't let some black guy steal her rent a bike.
"Overall it seems the goal is to prevent a malicious media from character assassination."
No, that isn't the goal. The goal is to make it a LOT easier to sue for defamation by making a finding of malice unnecessary. Also by making a lot of statements be presumed false without requiring proof thatbit is false. Basically, this is an attempt to make people saying mean things about you that they believe are true punishable (and easily so).
This is a clear attempt to chill critical speech by elected officials. Life is hard, snowflake conservatives. Wear a cup. And leave free speech alone.
Maybe you need to get a job writing for Reason. You made it a lot more understandable than the legalese babble in the article.
It seems the objection is that the Florida legislature is attempting to use defamation law to impose some professional standards on journalism, and as a journalist, Emma Camp does not like it.
No, it's an attempt by the Florida legislature to chill free speech critical of them.
Oh no private citizens, who come into the public eye not of the own doing cannot be considered public figures. Oh my God,it's the end of the 1A. Charges of racism that are false is defamation, oh no what a violation of the 1A. You can't use religion as your sole evidence of said racism, etc, what will we do? Is it time to break out the Guy Fawkes masks yet. I'm trying to understand Emma's take here? Yes, it could be abused, but what she outlines doesn't seem nearly as bad as she portrays it as. The definition of public figure for examples, has been used as carte blanche for to long to cover for bad or even dishonest reporting.
The Court will rightfully knock this down and you will cry like a sensitive leftist bitch because that's what you really are.
I don't think I've ever been called a leftist in my life. They probably will, not going to shed a tear. If anything, it's leftist bitches who will cry if this isn't overturned by the courts, since they love calling anyone to the right of Mao a racist, and then claiming that because they made the news (as private citizens) it can't be defamation because they're now a public figure. The right has been trying to fight that definition for decades. So I'm guessing you're a fucking retard.
Plus, Emma did a really poor fucking job explaining the law which is par for the course in her writing. Again, you're a fucking retard just like the fucking gray box SQRSLY, who can't even write a coherent post anymore.
Also, how many fucking leftists are going to cry because they want it harder to label people racists without any evidence? If anything, they are the ones who will celebrate this law being overturned, since they love to label everyone who disagrees even a little with them racists. You have either got to be a troll, sock or fucking retarded. Or possibly all three.
It is far from clear whether SCOTUS will "knock this down".
Falsely stating that someone is a racist is defamatory, and as such legitimate grounds for civil suits.
"Falsely stating that someone is a racist is defamatory, and as such legitimate grounds for civil suits."
How can anyone prove that they are NOT racist?
There goes my immunity from defamation suits given to me by religion! “We are all sinners, because God told me so”! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
“We are all RACISTS, because God told me so”! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
WHY in Government Almighty’s Holy Name should the above two cases be treated ANY differently? WHY do you LUST so badly and so baldly, after justifying the power piggery of Government Almighty?
"The Court will rightfully knock this down and you will cry like a sensitive leftist bitch because that’s what you really are."
You think soldiermedic is a leftist? Do you not understand what words mean?
"Charges of racism that are false is defamation..."
So then we should just TRUST in Government Almighty's courts, lawyers, judges, and juries to don their tin-foil mind-reading hate-hats, and decide whose racism is "sincerely held", and whose racism is SNOT? Whose racism is REAL, and whose is IMAGINED? Just like they already do with the adjudicated "sincerity" of religious beliefs?
Twat could POSSIBLY go wrong here? Nothing, right, right-wing wrong-nut? So let's just go ahead and hand over yet MORE power to Government Almighty's courts, lawyers, judges, and juries to don their tin-foil mind-reading hate-hats, already!!!
Government Almighty FORBID simply maximizing free speech, for ALL parties involved, for BOTH sides, when we could be pussy-grabbing our enemies, instead!!!! They will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back, anyway!
In summary, if the right-wing wrong-nuts and simpletons are to be believed, then allowing free speech to those who are labelled as "leftist" is, well, a LEFTIST thing to do! Allowing rightists to say whatever they want to say, is the RIGHT thing to do! Free speech for me, but snot for thee!!!!
Given Ms. Camp’s work product during her career with Reason, I imagine she’s utterly terrified that her propensity to do research-free regurgitations of press releases or others’ news stories will set her up for a defamation claim, and accordingly is opposed to anything that might ever imply she has any responsibility, however slight, to get the facts straight.
I'm really trying to find what I should get worked up about. I'm pretty hard core 1A, but what she describes really doesn't seem that extreme. Maybe it errors to much on the plaintiffs side, wanting to much proof, but I'm not a public figure, and just because some fucking journalists decides to make a derogatory and often fact free smear of me (hasn't happened but just using it as an example), they shouldn't be allowed to label me a public figure because they decided to make me one.
The short version: defamation would no longer require malice on the part of the speaker/author. Any anonymous quotes would be presumed false. Any allegations of racism, sexism, gender bias, etc. constitute defamation per se.
So if a reporter prints a true quote from someone who doesn't want to go on the record (most commonly for fear of retaliation by those with power over them) that identifies discriminatory statements or actions by that powerful person, that is defamation.
No need to prove anything, it is automatically defamation. Is it true? Doesn't matter, the source doesn't want to be identified so the quote is false for legal purposes.
Is the reporter reporting facts or are they acting with malice? Doesn't matter, malice isn't necessary. Just reporting facts that make someone look bad is sufficient.
Is the statement defamatory? Doesn't matter, it was an accusation of discrimination so it is automatically defamatory.
Can the subject's membership in a church with overtly discriminatory beliefs be used as support for the discriminatory statement? Nope, no church membership is admissible.
Think about it in the context of the South in the 50s and 60s. Michael Good Man tells Johnny Big Scoop of the Tribune, "Sheriff Joe Bob was the one in the KKK outfit that burned the cross in Stevie Civil Rights' front yard". It was, in fact, Sheriff Joe Bob.
Everyone knows that the KKK is violent and murderous, so there's no way in hell Michael is going to go on the record. People get lynched for things like that. So the quote is anonymous. The truth is now considered false without any proof necessary.
The accusation is about racial discrimination, so it is automatically considered defamatory.
Sheriff Joe Bob would definitely be negatively impacted by such a story, and that's all that's necessary to file suit. Reporting is sufficient, since there's no requirement to prove malice.
So Sheriff Joe Bob, the racist KKK leader who actively threatens and intimidates black people, would win a defamation case in a court of law without having to prove anything.
If this bill passes, in 2024, as in 1960, active racism will protected by the authorities. The only difference is that in the 1960s it was illegal. In 2024 it would not only be legal, it would be profitable.
That wouldn't bother you?
"A person being a racist is the worst thing ever but falsely accusing someone of racism isn't defamation." -- Leftist position.
Charges of racism that are false is defamation [...]
Under this law, charges of racism that are true would still be defamation, as long as the racist claims that their racist beliefs are part of their religion.
To give a specific example, do you remember the Pulse Nightclub shooting in Florida? In the immediate aftermath, there were multiple priests, pastors, and so-on that went viral because they had cheered it on in their churches, saying variations of "a good start".
Under current law, I can look at that kind of reaction and say "what a homophobic bigot."
Under this proposed law, if I did so in Florida I could be sued for defamation and the videos of the bigoted pastors cheering on the murder of gay people would be inadmissible because it happened from the pulpit.
Or, to simplify it for you... you are and would remain free to call me a fucking faggot (as you have done before). But if I retort "fucking homophobe" under this law, you could sue me and claim it's just your religion.
So yes. Free speech for the bigots, no free speech for the people that call them out for it.
"Charges of racism that are false is defamation, oh no"
No, soldiermedic. False charges of racism are defamation already. This law doesn't change that. But it does remove malice as a requirement for a finding of defamation. And it says statements by anonymous sources are presumed false in a defamation case.
Think about that for a minute. Any quote from an anonymous source is presumed false unless the source is identified. Basically every story about government abuse, corruption, criminality, misappropriation of funds, rogue programs, waste, fraud, sexual predation, etc. has anonymous quotes. The sources fear retaliation. They won't talk on the record because they are exposing the misdeeds of powerful people.
But hey, who needs to find out when the government is corrupt? That's worth sacrificing to stop a paper from printing a true, but anonymous, quote about the sexual predation of the head of the Florida GOP.
"You can’t use religion as your sole evidence of said racism"
You couldn't do that before. This bill doesn't change that. It bans religion completely. So if you are part of a virulently homophobic church, that is no longer allowed to be mentioned in court, even if it's relevant. That's like saying that you can't mention someone's membership in the KKK during a racial discrimination case. Pretending it is only preventing people from winning cases with "religion as your sole evidence" is a lie. I would bet my house that no defamation case has ever been won using only religion.
"I’m trying to understand Emma’s take here?"
That this is a direct and intentional effort to chill speech? Specifically speech reporting on politicians? It's not hard to understand.
"The definition of public figure for examples, has been used as carte blanche for to long to cover for bad or even dishonest reporting."
"To cover for bad or even dishonest reporting"? So if a reporter doesn't get everything exactly right, they should be subject to a lawsuit? How about if they report something that they, through their investigating, believe is true, but you don't? Lawsuit! Because that used to take a lot of effort to prove. With this bill it's a piece of cake.
This bill says defamation doesn't require malice, so a reporter writing true things a politician doesn't like based on anonymous sources is, according to this law, automatically defamatory. Especially anything that says the subject of the article acted in a racist, sexist, homophobic, or anti-trans way.
Gee, I wonder why the book-banning, anti-trans cultural conservative bigots that passed "Don't Say Gay" into law want to stop people from calling them bigots?
This is pure speech suppression. It's the bright line distinguishing social conservatives, who support conservative morals and values in society, from cultural conservatives, who force conservative morals and values on society.
Social conservatives can take a punch and come back stronger. Cultural conservatives are whining snowflakes who don't like when people say mean things about them so they pass laws to stop it from happening.
What's all the legislation for? If these psycho Republicans want to do a 'defamation' witch-hunt just go do it like the left does everyday.
Your links or other citations fell off! Also note that "the endless cycles of violence" applies to government-guns-justified-by-the-courts like any other kinds of violence! Duh, double-duh, and triple-duh!!!
Or are rightist causes somehow immune from "the endless cycles of violence"?
No need for propaganda citation. Only complete group-think idiots like yourself thinks the witch-hunt against Trump needs a 'what others think' citation.
Oh, and this supposed witch-hunt against Trump is going to be fixed by twat? Yet MORE armies of Trump lawyers LYING IN COURT? How will THAT “fix” things?
Sidney Powell to the rescue!
The 1A does not apply to civil defamation lawsuits.
Calling someone a racist without evidence certainly is defamatory, and it is good for courts to recognize that.
“The 1A does not apply to civil defamation lawsuits.”
How can anyone prove that they are NOT sinners, and NOT racist?
There goes my immunity from defamation suits given to me by religion! “We are all sinners, because God told me so”! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
“We are all RACISTS, because God told me so”! Now I can be sued by EVERYONE, because I can NOT prove that God told me so!
WHY in Government Almighty’s Holy Name should the above two cases be treated ANY differently? WHY do you LUST so badly and so baldly, after justifying the power piggery of Government Almighty?
Look, Sqlsy, you do have a point. The way this is written does give a lot of leniency. However, I think you are misinterpreting the direction.
Saying someone is racist is opinion. To trigger this law, you would have to give explicit examples of them being racist. Then, you would have to give leniency for interpretation. You don't have to prove you aren't racist, just demonstrate with a preponderance of evidence that this racist even either didn't happen or was misinterpreted.
"Calling someone a racist without evidence certainly is defamatory"
Again, not without evidence. Without attribution. Those two aren't even close to the same thing.
This law says anonymous quotes are presumed to be false. So if someone fears reprisal from powerful figures, they can either use their name and take the retaliation or we, the public, don't need to know about it.
False and anonymous aren't the same thing, except if this law passes.
"it is good for courts to recognize that"
They already do. This bill isn't creating defamation as a legal reality. You understand that defamation already exists, right?
"So if someone fears reprisal from powerful figures, they can either use their name and take the retaliation or we, the public, don’t need to know about it." That depends. If the reporters can verify the claim, they have sources they _can_ reveal and can report it. What they can't report is allegations that are not supported by any source that can be revealed.
Is it better if, under the law you want, a malicious person can tell a lie to a reporter, and it's hunky-dory for the reporter to repeat it without verification? Or if a malicious reporter can just make up shit and claim to have heard it from an anonymous source, verified by other anonymous sources - all of which he made up?
Every time you think the cultural conservatives in Florida couldn't get any worse, they prove you wrong. Is there any part of the First Amendment that they support?
Is there any depth they won't sink to in their authoritarian efforts to silence those who don't agree with them?
Book bans, monetary penalties for saying things that hirt conservative feelings, preventing people from talking about homosexuality, forcing discussion of LGBT people and issues out of the town square ... basically if people don't agree with the paleocon worldview, there will be legal and financial consequences.
I keep trying to hold onto my belief that reasonable people will get sick of the moralistic thugs and throw them out, but I'm losing faith in the basic decency of the people of Florida.
And you know where they learned that from right? Democrats....
Who were already busted wide-open for censoring the press and shutting down entire platforms.
Don't give me this garbage about Republicans doing this or that when the other side is the Mountain next to a Mole hill on the subject.
Is there any part of the First Amendment that they support?
The First Amendment has nothing to say about civil defamation lawsuits.
Is there any depth they won’t sink to in their authoritarian efforts to silence those who don’t agree with them?
You're free to say things about homosexuality. You are not free to call someone a homosexual or heterosexual when you know that they are not.
You are not free to call someone a he or a she when they identify ass a zee, a quee, kwee, they, or a zhem! And Noy Boy Toy Boy will sue the shit outta ya if ya get shit wrong!!!!
You are not free to call someone a homosexual or heterosexual when you know that they are not.
Currently you are, actually. It used to be considered defamation per se to call someone gay, but courts have been rejecting that argument for years now, and I’ve never heard of a case where someone argued that it was defamation (per se or otherwise) to accuse a person of being straight.
And this proposed law wouldn’t change that. You would still be entirely free to call anyone and everyone a “fucking faggot” anytime you want, and any libel/slander case against you would have an excessively high bar to pass in order to win.
What would it change?
Well, currently I can walk through Miami and say “the Westboro Baptists are homphobic bigots”.
Under this law, that would be defamation per se and the Westboro Baptists could sue me for slander. And because they have very publicly tied their religion to their bigotry, none of the evidence that the Westboro Baptists are, in fact, bigots, would be eligible in court.
Or, to put it another way… under this law it would be slander for me to say that the Westboro Baptists are homophobes, and it would not matter that I was speaking the truth because the court would be obligated to ignore what the evidence says.
"The First Amendment has nothing to say about civil defamation lawsuits."
Since this is a direct effort to limit the freedom of the press, chill speech, and create a presumption of defamation, it absolutely is a First Amendment issue. Defamation is already a thing. This isn't about defamation, it's about silencing criticism.
"You are not free to call someone a homosexual or heterosexual when you know that they are not."
I'm pretty sure you are, if you believe it to be true. Especially if your investigation shows that it's likely to be true. Outing someone who's in the closet is a shitty thing to do, but it isn't actionable.
It is impressive to see how much one can get wrong in one post.
Yes, you are impressive. And completely lacking on substance. Unless you have some sort of reason to say I'm wrong other than your love of using the government to force people to follow conservative values?
I didn't think so.
Lefty shits are always afraid to show their work. Boo-hoo.
scraping major constitutional protections for disparaging speech
I was going to point out that, after hate crimes being a Federally enforced crime and various iterations of Administration-enacted online shadow-banning being, apparently, a-OK, it’s really more of a scrapping of the hollowed-out remains of protections for free and disparaging speech.
Then I realized, like the consummate professional that she is, Emma said “scraping”, as in removing a thin, non-essential veneer of major protections for disparaging speech, and in that regard, I agree. Her most assuredly completely intentional choice of the word “scraping” over “scrapping” is well done.
If the feds are enforcing hate crimes then a false accusation of racism would seem to be a fairly serious concern...
What do you mean “if”?
See James Alex Fields Jr. and Darrell E. Brooks Jr.
How can a charge of racism even be proved? It's a belief, or a feeling, or an idea, it would seem, yet they say whitey is born with it, like original sin.
It's not hard when you have religious legislators spewing anti-trans and anti-gay vitriol in front of people.
The part the legislators object to is having their bigotry reported to the public. Hence this law.
What the actual fuck? That made about zero sense other than to imply charges of racism are proof of racism. Fuck off with that pedantry.
However, you take the side of racists when they are criticized for being racist. While I don’t believe you are a racist you do support racism.
Do you support racists of every race and ethnicity equally or no? If no, why do you not support diversity *and* equality?
Fuck you’re a moron,aren’t you? How many tropes can you pack into a single post without making a single cognitive argument? Oh, call me stupid and racists. Just intellectual laziness. Nothing new or original. Fucking old, tired, boring and jejune.
Lynn, having extra chromosomes does not make you superhuman.
As a heads up.
Lynn is a racist, and defending against that charge is proof of the claim.