Kissinger Dies

Plus: Trump opts out of debates, blackface story gets a twist, AI-enhanced IRS, and more...

No more of Kissinger's "charm": Henry Kissinger, who served as secretary of state under Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, and national security adviser under Nixon, has died at 100.

"America has lost one of the most dependable and distinctive voices on foreign affairs with the passing of Henry Kissinger," said former President George W. Bush in a statement last night, praising "his wisdom, his charm, and his humor."

Others (Cambodians and Laotians, to name a few) have been less enamored with Kissinger's "charm" and "humor." For an alternative rundown of Kissinger's legacy, read Sheldon Richman's 2014 piece for Reason which eviscerated Hillary Clinton's Washington Post review of Kissinger's book, World Order.

"If I didn't know better, I'd suspect some pseudonymous writer of having fun with irony in this review," said Richman, noting the use of a Barack Obama quote on how the U.S., post–World War II, "construct[ed] an architecture to keep the peace."

That is, "if you don't count the mass atrocity that was the Vietnam War, the U.S.-sponsored Israeli oppression of Palestinians, and various massacres carried out by U.S.-backed 'leaders' in such places as Bangladesh (formerly East Pakistan), East Timor, Chile, and elsewhere," added Richman. "One Henry Kissinger had a hand in all these crimes," which went unmentioned by Clinton.

"If the U.S. empire is indispensable to justice and liberalism," posited Richman, then "we are in trouble. The record is not encouraging. Kissingerian 'realism' creates global threats."

Reactions to Kissinger's death from around the web:

'70s flashback pic.twitter.com/iw4l041lpJ

— Jesse Walker (@notjessewalker) November 30, 2023

I love that the PRC propaganda line is that everything about American foreign policy is terrible — except for Henry Kissinger. https://t.co/3UbbWxx6Zy

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) November 30, 2023

Preeminent foreign policy commentator Mia Khalifa decided to give her OnlyFans subscribers a discount in celebration of Kissinger's death (discount code: ByeBitch), in a decidedly 2023 twist.

Strange times we live in. Contra Khalifa, I will just say this: Whatever you think of his record, condolences to his family. Further reading on his legacy here and here.

Trump doubles down on skipping debates: Republican presidential contenders keep taking the debate stage to jockey for attention, hoping their sparring moments go viral and can win them a boost in the polls. Just one is conspicuously absent.

Donald Trump will be skipping Wednesday's debate, just as he's skipped the other three, to attend a fundraiser for his PAC in Hallandale Beach, Florida, instead.

Trump is beating his opponents by more than 40 percentage points in most polls. He has a strong and commanding lead, and has called on the Republican National Committee to cancel the remaining debates—a demand to which it has not acquiesced—which he calls "unwatchable." Many have pointed to the interesting fact that, in this election cycle, Trump is almost running as an incumbent, seeing himself as so far above the competition that he doesn't need to hew to traditional rules.

Also on the unconventional formatting front: Tonight, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, will face off against Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican who is running for president. They'll most likely debate crime, COVID-19, immigration, and the economic health of the two states.

Israel-Hamas ceasefire extended: Early this morning, right before the temporary ceasefire was set to expire, mediators managed to negotiate one more day of pause in the fighting between Israel and Hamas. This will allow more October 7 hostages to be released, and for more aid to get into southern Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are sheltering and in dire need.

Within Israel's borders, "at least three people were killed and six others wounded when two Palestinian gunmen affiliated with Hamas opened fire near a bus stop on the outskirts of Jerusalem," early this morning, according to Israeli law enforcement, reported The New York Times.

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Scenes from New York:  Working on a new documentary for Reason.

(Liz Wolfe)

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• That blackface story I mentioned yesterday, in which a Deadspin journalist wrote a viral article criticizing a literal child for having his face painted red and black and wearing a headdress at a Kansas City Chiefs game? It turns out, per the kid's mom, that he is Native American.
• Helen Toner is out as one of OpenAI's board members. Perhaps the most interesting thing about last week's saga is that so little has come out about why the board accused CEO Sam Altman of failing to be honest and transparent in his communications with them. (Disclosure: My husband works for OpenAI.)

Today, I officially resigned from the OpenAI board.

Thank you to the many friends, colleagues, and supporters who have said publicly & privately that they know our decisions have always been driven by our commitment to OpenAI's mission.
1/5

— Helen Toner (@hlntnr) November 30, 2023

i am once again begging the previous board to say something that isn't pastel colored corporate pablum

— roon (@tszzl) November 30, 2023

• OK, artificial intelligence has officially gone too far:

"Here is the awe-inspiring and intense scene of IRS agents in a futuristic command center, actively tracking down rich tax cheats." pic.twitter.com/tm2o13gipJ

— James Medlock (@jdcmedlock) November 29, 2023

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Trump doubles down on skipping debates...

As good as he is at them, there's no upside to him bothering.

[TwilaMiller]

I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome9.com

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But how can the political-media complex cash in?

[Chumby]

Pluggo thinks he would best Trump in one given that he is a self described master debater.

[JesseAz]

It took 100 years, but the godfather of globalism did finally admit to the costs of unchecked immigration.

“It was a grave mistake to let in so many people of totally different culture and religion and concepts, because it creates a pressure group inside each country that does that,” the 100-year-old ex-top American diplomat said in an interview with Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner for Germany’s Welt TV. Axel Springer is POLITICO’s parent company.

[Mother's Lament]

The issue isn't the different cultures, it's putting illegals on the social safety net teat while excusing them from laws the rest of the citizenry are subject to, and then calling the citizenry "racist" for complaining.

We see this happening not only in the US, but across Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK, and it seems purposefully inflammatory.

[JesseAz]

It is both. Support of a welfare state is largely related to the work ethic of the initial population. In Scandinavian countries there was always a strong support for their welfare state as they balanced it with a strong cultural work ethic. As they have seen an increase in immigration and many of them relying on the welfare state instead of working, support for those programs have gone down.

Now, I am generally always against welfare, preferring charities to handle it. But cultural differences also place different importance on self sufficiency. The Calvinists and Pilgrims often advocated a strong work ethic. Other cultures don't share this, believe in a communal work ethic where everyone is taken care of even if they work less.

So the cultural aspects bleed directly into the questions regarding welfare and dependency.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yes, both. But not only because of contrasts in work ethics.

IMO the bigger issue is contrasts in fundamental social and political values, especially in support for strong ideological government. To exaggerate just a bit, think Sharia law vs. laissez-faire.

[Dakotian]

The safety net/welfare also allows them to avoid or put off assimilation. Having a job makes you part of a community. To some extent at least. If you can just pick up a check from some government office, you can remain outside the community.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/DolioJ/status/1730259016972902542?t=5cg4Cic-TbDqVDw1lHzkyg&s=19

This is literally every other house in Dearborn and Dearborn Heights.

It's sad.

And when the business tax credits for "refugees" run out, they sell the business to their newly arrived "cousin" and reset the tax credit clock.

[Link
"In Idaho recently, for second grandchild. Bought my daughter new tires for her jeep, as they are struggling in a house they can barely afford. The USG bought the refugees the house next door, so glad the savings allowed them to purchase this."]

[Minadin]

Not only that, but they are artificially inflating the market by buying housing stock for those folks.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

They should compensate by taking reparations from their democrat neighbors. Which is just a fancy way of taking their stuff. Since this is their doing.

[Ersatz]

why dont we see it in arab countries or china or japan....?

[R Mac]

Their governments haven’t been overrun by progressive globalists.

[Mother's Lament]

The Arab countries are constantly importing serfs, they just don't put them on the government teat, and they kick them out when they're no longer useful.

Plus, the Arab and the Chinese way of government is the goal here. They've already arrived at the governance destination. The Western countries are still the problem, and that's why their populations need to be destabilized.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The Arab countries are constantly importing serfs, they just don’t put them on the government teat, and they kick them out when they’re no longer useful.

Yeah, pretty much all of Qatar's actual workforce are foreigners; Bangladeshis tend to do the really shit, dangerous jobs like gas field roughneck and construction.

[Agammamon]

Pretty much.

'Melting pot' isn't the same as 'multiculturalism'. You can certainly make an argument that allowing so many in at once made it harder for them to 'melt' but the real culprit was the removal of any requirements to be productive or conform to our core ideals.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Kissinger's legacy will be one that saw the validation of unchecked global managerialism, initially done because it was thought to advance the interests of the US, but ultimately undermined it by placing its specific interests as irrelevant to the Current Thing objectives of the internationalists.

The center-right loves to laud his diplomacy with China as creating a split between them and Russia, but that's a bullshit line that doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny. The USSR and China were already on poor footing with each other before Nixon's visit, while opening up trade with them ultimately provided them with the means and technology to actually become a threat. Bill and Hillary traded proprietary military tech in exchange for campaign money, America's corporations have outsourced jobs and pollution to them, its media conglomerates shamelessly pandered to Chinese ethnonationalism and ethnocentrism while scolding white people for being privileged supremacists at home, and its government agencies allowed its spies and agents to infiltrate our cultural institutions. Opening relations with China will go down as the biggest strategic mistake this country has ever made, and it's Kissinger's most notable accomplishment.

And that's not even getting into his mentorship of evil fucks like Klaus Schwab, who's made several western government and media figures into his thralls to spread the shit ideology of the global managerial state.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

++

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

China would be far less powerful if democrats weren’t allowed to commit high treason and sell out our country to them.

[TheReEncogitationer]

No death of Henry Kissinger would be complete without the eponymous Monty Python’s Flying Circus song. It’s almost like Eric Idle did the song with this day in mind!

Henry Kissinger Song by Eric Idle
https://youtu.be/T5vo7jLGOb8?si=8iEy410qQK_r9MLe
🙂
😉

[Public Entelectual]

Kissinger's favorite Conference of Vienna story now applies to his own end.
After weeks of argument , the Treaty of the Holy Alliance was about to be signed when Metternich's aide burst into the room to halt the proceedings , because of [false] reports that Tallyrand was dead.

"Really?" Metternich replied." What could he hope to gain by dying at a time like this?"

[Fist of Etiquette]

...which he calls "unwatchable."

That's a shame because they're auditioning to be his running mate.

[mad.casual]

The best part is that I'm only about 90% certain his skipping out isn't kayfabe for the final debate where he makes a surprise cameo, gives one of them a rose, and fires everyone else.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Can he descend the Golden Escalator as part of it?

[mad.casual]

Tough call. Personally, I think a 100% accurate replica of Rusev's entrance (@2:40) would be the most epic troll in all of human history ever.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

That would be a pretty epic troll. Would Melania be carrying the belt? I'm almost certain nobody wants to see The Don in those shorts, though.

[JesseAz]

I'm a shock to only a few posters here who defend government induced censorship, government censorship and collusion for censorship started before Covid. New whistleblower releases documents and evidence to Shellenberger.

https://justthenews.com/government/federal-agencies/federal-censorship-machine-started-years-covid-involved-military

[HorseConch]

Well, the real speech warriors are too busy making sure those evil moms don't get all the quality reading banned. There's no time to worry about other speech when kids can't get library books.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Before or after drag queen story hour?

[HorseConch]

Drag Queen Story Hour is the freeest of speech. You know the old saying, "as the trannies grinding school children go, America goes."

[R Mac]

I’m going to need the exact guidelines for the censorship before I make a judgement.

[Commenter_XY]

JesseAZ, what has been mind-blowing to me is how the American people have been lied to so much. I remember an article during POTUS Trump's term of office where the former intelligence officer said we would all be shocked...everything we have been told is a lie.

I thought it was crazy. Now, post pandemic, I think that person was right. I still cannot believe it, that we are lead by such corrupt people.

[JesseAz]

Oh, they are still lying to you. But luckily some journalists do the job they did in the 70s and don't act as a mouthpiece while various whistleblowers and billionaires fight the system.

There was an article the other day how these censorship orgs also worked with the Government to go after Tesla when Musk bought Twitter. It is definitely a coordinated game reeking of corporatism.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...more aid to get into southern Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are sheltering and in dire need.

The government in Gaza is doing all it knows to do for them.

[mad.casual]

Tunneling under hospitals to get them out?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

For them or to them?

[Minadin]

Those peasants need to just lie back and think of a Palestine, free, from the river to the sea . . .

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

They do. They largely support Hamas. So I say just flatten the whole place and kick any survivors out.

Make Gaza Israeli Again.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Or perhaps give because YOU APPRECIATE ROUNDUP and want it to keep appearing in your inbox.

Inbox? Some of you people are giving Reason your email address???

[JesseAz]

D.C. Judge has granted Jack Smith every form of discovery including breaking trumps legal and executive privileges. She has now refused Trumps request for all publicly created documents from the J6 committee. Stating he has no right to "working" documents democrats chose not to release.

https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1729492091246387383

[damikesc]

This is such an insane kangaroo court.

Somebody should prosecute Smith and the judge on the same legal basis they are prosecuting Trump under.

[JesseAz]

Deprivation of rights?

Can't remind people enough that Smith and members if his team have been found by the USSC of prosecutorial abuses in political cases. And this is who Garland chose.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Did you forget that the Crusade against Trump must defy rules and norms?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

It is the norm to defy the rules in DC.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

The democrats must be cleansed from America. This isn’t an outlier. This is their party’s mainstream now.

Our freedom > democrat lives

[NOYB2]

The democrats must be cleansed from America.

There are at least 75 million Democrats. What are you going to do with them?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Well, Germany was denazified...

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Elmer the Redneck Nazi would like to gas them and then shoot the runners.

He is old fashioned like that.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

I would exile most of the key players. But I would definitely have some shot that are too dangerous to let live, or too malignant.

Like you, Kiddie Raper.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Plow them under.

Gonna need a whole fleet of woodchippers.

But think of how much it will reduce our carbon emissions! They should applaud us doing so much for Mother Gaia.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Create a fleet of ambulatory woodchippers. Then give it a conservatarian filtered AI. Turn them loose on democrats.

The problem almost solves itself.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

You get rid of the hardcore Marxists first. Plus the democrat leadership and their money people. Then fire everyone in the federal bureaucracy. Since a super majority of them are far left democrats. Shit down the media. And so on.

Once enough layers of the onion are peeled off it should fix the problem. Most of those 75 million are just morons who run off emotion and have no real idea what they’re supporting. I have a cousin like this. Stupid, emotion driven, and says shit like “Obama makes my heart sing”. Without direction from real Marxists she’s just another moron. That is most of their constituency.

[Public Entelectual]

A kangaroo court is perfect for a tall , pugnaceous defendant with tiny hands and blonde hair.

[Super Scary]

Lol the tiny hands thing. Getting flashbacks to 2015. Why not bring up "Drumpf" while you're at it?

[Public Entelectual]

Tiny hands are handy if you want to dance the Dinosaur Creep.
If you want the Drumpf, the Drumpf wants you.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1730035354311565343?t=2iPLU702IbWX5RY2DnGwgA&s=19

Rockefeller Center Christmas tree lighting:

[Link]

[mad.casual]

It's OK because it's not a Palestinian-New Yorker Tradition that only dates back to the Mid-Century. 😛

[Nardz]

...

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/1730224442087800862?t=Gd7vFdDCUuwaKWz2PzNXjg&s=19

Maybe they're angry at the Christmas tree because it is a reminder that a rather important Jew was born 2000 years ago in Judea, some six centuries before Mohammed was born. And Jesus was born 1200 years after the Jews arrived in Canaan.

[mad.casual]

Personally, I blame the Germans für Den Tannenbaum.

[Mother's Lament]

Where's the flags for the people who were just ethnically cleansed from Azerbaijan?

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

I think "Not Caring About The Armenians" is pretty much traditional, now.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Does anyone?

[JesseAz]

Right wing CBS News.

CBS News
@CBSNews
Americans need an extra $11,400 today just to afford the basics. (Link)

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1729838337270153506

[Spiritus Mundi]

Hey man! That is 65% less than a few months ago. And all do to those greedy businesses. Where's Jackie? - Biden

[Ajsloss]

Where's Jackie? I think the raccoon dogs got her.

[JesseAz]

Still waiting on the Emma article to let all the racoon dogs wrongly blamed for Covid to be allowed entry into this country due to persecution.

[Anomalous]

I thought that's Fiona's thing.

[JesseAz]

Might be. I confuse the two college hires.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Meh. One stupid little prog vie twat is the same as any other stupid little proggie twat

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, some dogs have to do the jobs that American dogs refuse to do.

[JesseAz]

Who else is going to bite white house staffers?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

A Marine in one of those dog fetish hoods?

[Public Entelectual]

Stop making fun of your Sunday Suit.

[Knutsack]

That's a whole lotta chewin' tobacky, as one of the resident economic idiots might proclaim.

[Chumby]

Did CBS advise viewers to start buying Cheesy Poofs at Costco to recoup that $11k?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

In Jeffy's case, they didn't need to.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Transferring money between bank accounts doesn't seem like it should be a crime...

Its fungibility means you could be using it for unsanctioned purposes and until we can get a social credit system up and running...

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Ask Justin Castreau.

[JohnZ]

Ole blackface....

[JesseAz]

Ireland to treat Irish Lives Matter graffiti and statements as a hate crime.

https://justthenews.com/world/europe/irish-lives-matter-graffiti-be-investigated-hate-incident-authorities-say

[mad.casual]

Related link: U.S., Germany reportedly to push Ukraine to negotiate with Russia

The Russians must’ve stolen whatever Philosopher’s Stone-esque material was providing Palestinian hospitals with a perpetual 24 hours worth of fuel and used it on their armored infantry.

[R Mac]

So Poland is next, right?

[Mother's Lament]

The indigenous people of a country are called racist by a colonial power for stating that their lives matter.

And I thought 2020 was weird. I wonder what they have for us in the next election year.

[JesseAz]

Oddly Ireland's government promoted BLM.

[Mickey Rat]

It is odd only if you have the principle of "equal treatment under law" as your standard.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

In a country that's 94% white.

[Fats of Fury]

Sinn Féin MP Paul Maskey said the signs were "disgraceful."

Sinn Féin? The organization that was bombing civilians to create a United Ireland for the Irish? That Sinn Féin?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Define irony.

[NOYB2]

I doubt Irish LIves ever mattered to Sinn Fein.

[JesseAz]

Biden continues the Obama practice of Sue and Settle to avoid Congress and rule making requirements. Settles to remove two hydro electric dams.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/court-filings-reveal-secret-agreement-between-biden-admin-eco-groups-seeking-tear-down-key-power-source

But hey, at least he recognizes the constitution.

[SRG2]

Kissinger's death is sad. It should have been in prison where he'd been serving a life sentence for war crimes.

[JesseAz]

Oddly you promote a lot of his globalist ideas. But I guess the left still hates him despite their current agreement with his views.

[Spiritus Mundi]

He could of avoided commiting 'war crimes' by killing white people like Hamas.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Kissinger is of your ilk, pal. Solid GOP like Dubya, Cheney, Lindy Graham, Dennis Hastert, et al.

[Sevo]

turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[Mother's Lament]

Solid GOP like Dubya, Cheney, Lindy Graham, Dennis Hastert, et al.

All of whom you've praised and Jesse has regularly hated on. By your definitions of GOP and endorsements, Pluggo, the "Solid GOP" here is you.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Liar. They are all still Bushpigs to me - like they have been since 2001.

I have always hate Bushpigs and always will.

Are you Paul Wolfowitz by any chance? He ran off to Canada if I recall correctly?

[Sevo]

turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[Mother's Lament]

For all your "protests" about "Bushpigs" you've suckholed almost every single neocon there is and endorsed almost every single one of their policies.

"I'm not a pedophile, except for the sexy ones kids are gross!" - t. Plugly

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

You're such a liar like Jeff says.

I linked to a Cathy Young libertarian article at Bulwark.

You hate libertarians I know. You hate Reason.com. Only the Trump Cult matters to you.

Sad.

You're just sad and pathetic.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

At the Bulwark, a magazine known for its neocon stance?

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

You’re quoting the other pedophile troll that hangs out here? That’s rich.

American rights > democrat lives

[Mother's Lament]

"You’re such a liar like Jeff says."

Oh! Well if the guy whose actual nickname here is Lying Jeffy says it... lol.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Shreek, either way, let’s just agree you should be dead.

[JesseAz]

He is a subversive globalist just like your idol Soros. Promotes many of the same ideals. Here is Soros even defending the Ukraine war, like Kissinger.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/17/soros-ukrainian-victory-would-lead-to-dissolution-of-the-russian-empire.html

They push the same form of globalism, both are constant members of the WEF. Sorry buddy, he is someone you support by proxy.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Soros defending Ukraine's right to defend itself?

Yeah. No wonder you Trump Cultists hate him. You bow down to Vlad like Fatass Donnie does.

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[JesseAz]

For what goal Shrike? It is in the article. To dismantle Russia, not to defend Ukraine. Have you ever tried reading past a headline?

[Mother's Lament]

"Have you ever tried reading past a headline?"

That will never ever happen. He's the laziest fifty-center we have.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

He’s pretty stupid too. Oh……. he also fucks children.

[R Mac]

You’re the only person I’ve ever seen bring up Denny Hastert here, and you do it frequently. It’s like an obsession. I wonder why?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Denny Hastert is Pluggo's hero.

[Chumby]

Pluggo stumps for Hastert.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

And Jeffrey Epstein is his spirit animal.

[Chumby]

Epstein would never leave any Pluggos behind.

[SRG2]

I don't promote the idea of bombing of civilians in countries with which we are not at war. Nor am I of the left, despite your attempts at claiming that as I despise Trump, I must be,

Oddly, you don't actually criticise Kissinger here. But you can easily remedy that omission - and indeed, you can also condemn Nixon for going along with it.

[Sevo]

You don't have to apologize for your raging case of TDS, just jam it up your ass to keep your head company, fuckwit.

[Mother's Lament]

Kissinger was a war criminal and globalist fanatic who started a cargo cult for billionaires and CEOs through his protégé Schwab.
There.

And I've seen you support a good number of his policies here.

[JesseAz]

I truly think Shrike and Diet Shrike are too ignorant to understand what they support. They just blindly repeat narratives without introspection.

[SRG2]

Nah. I know what I support and why, and you're just too blind and impaired to understand it.

Do you understand the difference between free markets and free trade on the one hand, and US as global hegemon on the other? It would seem not.

[JesseAz]

I see a lot of buzz words in your post, nothing demonstrating your understanding of what you say. This post included.

I mean both speak often at WEF, but they are ssooooooo different. They both support foreign entanglements when it suits their needs. They both support buying politicians and offices.

Maybe you should educate yourself before resorting to buzz words?

[SRG2]

And I’ve seen you support a good number of his policies here.

No you haven't. You may have seen me support free trade, free markets and absence of tariffs. US as global hegemon? Not I.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

I wrote an Ode to Free Trade:

Trump picked my pockets last night pre-flight
Zero hour 9:00 a.m.
And I’m gonna be broke
As a bum by then
I miss liberty so much I miss my life
It’s lonely without Nancy Mace
On such a worthless flight
And I think it’s gonna be a long, long time
‘Til Tariff Man brings me ’round again to find
I’m not the rich man they think I am at home
Oh, no, no, no
I’m not a MAGA man
Tariff Man, burning up my cash up here alone

They all hate it. It defies their cult leader.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Keep your fifty cent day job, Pluggo.

[Chumby]

Your posts are taxing…and sometimes felonious.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Got to dox him. Ideally the father of one of his victims will capture, then torture him to death. Like a really slow version of what happened to the guy who raped and murdered Gerard Butler’s daughter in ‘Law Abiding Citizen’.

[JesseAz]

I just love how you two ignorant leftists continue to ignore that Soros is one of the primary funders of the left. And then shout free markets!!! free speech!!! As Soros literally funds regulations and censorship.

Living example of useful idiots.

[JesseAz]

Ahhh, more buzz words. And to the level of DPRK being a republic. That is the level of your understanding. It makes so much sense.

Free markets like pushing for reduced federal leases on energy while buying up private lands to produce energy, using government to prop up his investments. Free markets like that Shrike? Because Soros is doing just that.

Soros loves regulations that benefit him. He isn't free market just because he says he is. But you'll never look at his actual actions because it may make you realize how ignorant you've been.

[JesseAz]

You openly support Soros who is the same type of subversive globalist dumdum. Kissinger was the godfather of globalism, promoted many of the same policies as Soros. And as I show above Soros even defends various bombing campaigns such as in Ukraine when it serves his goals.

I know you guys don't actually do any research on what you support, but a lot of the globalism currently is founded in Kissinger's ideas..

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

You don't know what a globalist is, you moron.

Kissinger certainly wasn't one. He wanted to bomb third world countries and steal their resources.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Cite?

[JesseAz]

LOL.

I don’t think I have seen so much ignorance in such a succinct sentence.

Just one tiny example. 29 pages though, so 29 too many for you to read.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/45289223

[R Mac]

No way in hell he reads it.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

With the great journalist Oriana Fallaci:

Americans like the cowboy who leads the wagon train by riding ahead alone on his horse, the cowboy who rides all alone into the town, the village, with his horse and nothing else. Maybe even without a pistol, since he doesn't shoot. He acts, that's all, by being in the right place at the right time. In short, a Western.
Fallaci: I see. You see yourself as a kind of Henry Fonda, unarmed and ready to fight with his fists for honest ideals. Alone, courageous ...
Kissinger: Not necessarily courageous. In fact, this cowboy doesn't have to be courageous. All he needs is to be alone, to show others that he rides into the town and does everything by himself. This amazing, romantic character suits me precisely because to be alone has always been part of my style or, if you like, my technique. Together with independence. Oh, that's very important in me and for me. And finally, conviction. I've always been convinced that I had to do whatever I've done. And people feel it, and believe in it. And I care about the fact that they believe in me when you sway or convince somebody, you shouldn't confuse them. Nor can you even simply calculate. Some people think that I carefully plan what are to be the consequences, for the public, of any of my initiatives or efforts. They think this preoccupation is always on my mind. Instead the consequences of what I do, I mean the public's judgment, have never bothered me. I don't ask for popularity, I'm not looking for popularity. On the contrary, if you really want to know, I care nothing about popularity. I'm not at all afraid of losing my public; I can allow myself to say what I think. I'm referring to what's genuine in me. If I were to let myself be disturbed by the reactions of the public, if I were to act solely on the basis of a calculated technique, I would accomplish nothing.

[JesseAz]

Non sequitur because you refuse to read.

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd always lies. That's not a surprise to anyone who reads his constant stream of bullshit.
But it's becoming obvious that as Misek is too stupid to understand the concepts of "evidence" or "relevance", the concept of "honesty" is simply beyond turd's ken.

[Mother's Lament]

"Kissinger wasn’t a globalist"

OH WOW!

[R Mac]

Turd lies.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

And is a child rapist who deserves to be tortured to death.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

He was MAGA. Fuck everyone else. We isolate for MAGA.

[JesseAz]

Okay, fine. This is the most ignorance I've seen in a series of short sentences. LOL.

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

Just when I though his stupidity hit rock bottom, he breaks out the excavator.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

That doesn't even make any sense, moron.

[Mother's Lament]

"He was MAGA. Fuck everyone else."

Kissinger was MAGA... oh wow.

If that little spasm of nuttery were true that would mean you're MAGA too.

[JesseAz]

He really is in contention for the dumbest poster here.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Contention? I was always under the working assumption that Shrike was the dumbest mofo here.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

You're the moron who doesn't understand double entry accounting.

That you can run a surplus while simultaneously increasing debt - which happens all the time and is what Clinton did in 1999-2000.

Idiot.

[JesseAz]

Lolwut. What the fuck are you talking about now dumbass?

[soldiermedic76]

Well Tony hasn't been on in awhile, that's about his only real competition.

[Chumby]

Kissinger:

Think loco, act global.

[TheReEncogitationer]

See my link to the Henry Kissinger Song above.

As for Nixon:

* Holds “‘V’ for Victory” hands up, flaps jowls, and says: “B-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r!”*
🙂
😉

[Fats of Fury]

Guvna Shrike is obviously an antisemite.

[Unable2Reason]

Isn't Kissinger's death one of those, "I already thought he was dead" moments?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yeah, I read that he was till alive not too long ago, and simply thought, even Lucifer doesn't want Kissinger in Hell.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Dick Cheney has that seat saved for him.

[Sevo]

The ass-clown turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[JesseAz]

From the guy who promotes Liz Cheney. LOL.

[Mother's Lament]

He's pretty much given up on logic and is just yelling shit now.

[Agammamon]

You support pretty much everyone of his policies though.

I guess you think it would have turned out differently if only the 'right people' were in charge?

[Commenter_XY]

Bullshit. What you do not like is that Kissinger actually operated on the assumption that nations have interests, and to serve those interests; and he did so effectively. That is what pisses you off.

Israel owes their existence to Kissinger perceiving the extreme danger Israel was in on October 9th (1973 Yom Kippur war). He saved Israel by getting a military airlift going in under 24 hours that enabled Israel to stop Egypt in the Sinai. and roll them back.

[TheReEncogitationer]

Yeah, but couldn't anybody else have done that too, including Israel itself? Didn't Israel basically start out with leftover Lee-Enfields, Sten Guns, and MAC-10s and Czech hand-me-downs?

And how did all of Kissinger's diplomacy with the world's gangster regimes serve our interests? Doing such just gives those regimes an imprimatur of legitimacy and enabled them to undermine us, as Red China indeed has with military and industrial espianage, Intellectual Property theft, and, of course, the biowar of Wu-Flu.

[JesseAz]

Virginia election official indicted for altering 2020 election returns.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/ex-virginia-election-official-allegedly-altered-election-results-2020

[Longtobefree]

No WIDESPREAD cheating. Only WIDESPREAD cheating counts.
Little stuff, just enough to tip a state, isn't enough to bother with.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Anyway, old news. Move on.

[Minadin]

What Difference, at this Point, does it Make?

- Some democrat sometime about some scandal

[SRG2]

the current general registrar says that his predecessor’s alleged conduct didn’t impact any election outcomes.

[R Mac]

Thanks for being the meme they’re referencing.

[JesseAz]

Mistakes were made, nothing happened.

Which step is that?

[JesseAz]

And based on the convictions/indictments it isn't wide spread, just like there isn't widespread jaywalking.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It turns out, per the kid's mom, that he is Native American.

Which shouldn't matter but adds some flavor to this old dish.

It looks like even Karen J. Phillips's bubble might have abandoned him on this one.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Means he’s allowed to wear a headdress without claims of appropriation or “hatred”. Not that he should have been dragged on that or the facepaint in the first place.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

True, but it makes Deadspin and Phillips look even dumber and stupider than before. Not that I exactly mind making both look really, really, stupid.

[Minadin]

Don't forget deliberately dishonest.

They went through several minutes of footage at 24 frames per second to find the perfect angle to use in their story image.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It's damn near Jeffy or Pluggo levels of dishonesty and stupidity.

[Commenter_XY]

The question I have: Why pick on a child?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It's the woke left, the kid appeared "white", and it looked like easy prey to them. The don't care about the fact the kid is a kid. They only care about scoring their points. That's why Phillips doubled down like an ass when confronted.

[Minadin]

That dude is not real.

[R Mac]

Because they thought he was white and they’re evil.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm surprised his research didn't turn that fact up before they went to press.

[JesseAz]

Disclose.tv
@disclosetv
NEW - United States taxpayers pay $451 billion per year for housing and care of illegal migrants. (Video)

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1729527258862301627

100% cost free and profit.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Why do you hate food trucks?

[JesseAz]

Just subsidized ones. Bitter after taste of welfare spending makes even Cuban sandwiches taste bad.

[R Mac]

Cuban sandwich? What’s that?

[Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo]

It refers to Mark Cuban’s double penetration kink.

[Chumby]

But whattabout the benefits?!?! Think of all those undocumented minors available to attend book readings where men that dress as burlesque women entertain those young rear ends to plant themselves on top of panty wearing crotches. Call it the drag queen stimulus package. Trickle down indeed.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Look out, billionaires! Biden's comin' for ya!

A billionaire minimum tax of just 25% would raise $440 billion over the next 10 years. Imagine what we could do if we just made billionaires pay their taxes like everyone else.

$440B over a decade doesn't sound like much for a country that has "invested" $100B in Ukraine in far less time.

[JesseAz]

For a 25% tax you too can pay for 50% of the IRA spending.

[damikesc]

Didn't his son not pay his taxes and didn't his prosecutors try to get him off those charges?

[Zeb]

Yeah, we could pay off like 1% of the debt!
The US has had an extremely wide range of different income tax rates and never really manages to collect more than 18% or so of GDP. ANd idiots still think too low taxes on the rich are the problem.

[Agammamon]

Especially when the billionaires just move their assets and themselves elsewhere.

When you have that much money, a Russian winter is just as comfortable as a Californian spring.

[Chumby]

Spittin tobacky moguls hardest hit.

[JesseAz]

Israel-Hamas ceasefire extended: Early this morning, right before the temporary ceasefire was set to expire, mediators managed to negotiate one more day of pause in the fighting between Israel and Hamas. This will allow more October 7 hostages to be released, and for more aid to get into southern Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are sheltering and in dire need.

Hamas already broke the cease fire this morning.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/three-killed-6-injured-in-terror-shooting-at-jerusalem-entrance-bus-stop/

[Fist of Etiquette]

i am once again begging the previous board to say something that isn't pastel colored corporate pablum

Skynet is their PR person.

[Knutsack]

We have a board and a CEO that are less than transparent, whose main goal is to protect itself from lawsuits and hide information that makes them look bad. All the while, we're going into the future thinking AI is going to be deeply involved with so many aspects of our lives.

I can't wait.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Here is the awe-inspiring and intense scene of IRS agents in a futuristic command center, actively tracking down rich tax cheats.

Rich being someone who has $600 to move.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

It turns out, per the kid's mom, that he is Native American.

But what color is his skin? As Tim Scott noted in his skin-color based campaign - skin color is the most important thing.

[Spiritus Mundi]

I just somehow knew a story about a young boy would catch your eye.

[Mother's Lament]

Tim Scott and children, the most Pluggo post ever.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

More evidence that Pluggo has a man crush on Tim Scott. I've suspected, for some time now, that Pluggo wants Scott to be gay so Pluggo can be the bottom.

[Chumby]

Pluggo says they are all brown on the inside.

[Fats of Fury]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Williams

Wayne Williams is turd's favorite type of negro.

[damikesc]

Feel free to cite a single time your object of racist hatred said that.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

"skin color is the most important thing"

A message SBP takes to heart.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Well, color and texture.

[Knutsack]

It's too bad Elizabeth Warren couldn't weigh in on this one, but she's too busy with Subway.

[JesseAz]

Stop trying to excuse your own racism with false narratives.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

So everyone else here says "Skin color is the most important thing" but I don't?

TIMMYE! did play the race card. And you knows it.

[Sevo]

We all know that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Except, it's you playing the race card whenever Scott, Thomas, or Walker comes up in conversation. It's you who makes the snide, racist comments. It's you who acts like an asshole over any of them when they do the exact same thing a while conservative or black progressive does. You seem to hate it when blacks (and other minorities) leave the Democrat plantation.

One might think that you are not only misogynist, bigoted, anti-Catholic, antisemitic, a pederast, a lying sack of shit, but also a racist as well.

[Mother's Lament]

"TIMMYE! did play the race card"

The only one playing the race card is you every single time a black guy wanders off the DNC reservation. Buttplug the slave catcher.

[Minadin]

When everyone else says 'skin color is the most important thing' they are being deliberately sarcastic to point out the hypocrisy of individuals, parties, etc. who claim to be against racism, or 'anti-racist'.

To most of us, skin color is very far from the most important thing. This does not appear to be the case with you, though. So, when you say it, even if you nailed the situation just perfectly, the context would still be different.

Even in a world where lefties could meme.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Bullshit. Tim Scott ran as the "bla-ek candidate" - he said he did. It's two syllables to him.

Obama just happened to be a black man running for president. That is a big difference.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Bullshit. Obama ran as "black" just as much as anything else, twit. Somehow you missed all that in 2008. It's one of the main reasons Hillary lost the Democratic primary.

[Minadin]

Remember when candidate Obama was asked about (previously) some people referring to Bill Clinton as the first Black president, and his response was, 'Well, I haven't seen him dance.'

Or how about when candidate Biden told the radio show host in New York that if he didn't vote for him, he wasn't Black.

But yeah, Tim Scott pointing out **to the media** that he's being treated and portrayed differently **by the media** something somehow republicans racists? And therefore Pluggo gets to carry on with his minstrel show.

[R Mac]

This is dumb even for you Denny.

[JesseAz]

It isn't important to us. Not in any decision regarding employment, status, or other concern regarding individualism.

But your statements are racist in and of themselves and not in discussions of the above. They are attacks based on skin color. Nothing more.

Nobody here promoted GOP candidates based on skin color. You have attacked them based on it however.

Can you tell the difference?

[sarcasmic]

What matters is that they have proper papers. If they don't then grab the fuckers and put them on the next plane out of the country.

[R Mac]

How long you been scrolling to shoehorn that in?

[JesseAz]

It doesn’t even make sense as a non sequitur. And notice his non sequitur is attempting to imply any open borders discussion against welfare/spending/crime/cost is based on racism. As he injects it into a discussion on shrikes racism. It is utterly stupid. But his argument is so bad and so bald that it is all he has.

[JesseAz]

You really are getting dumber. There is no way you're still on the wagon. This is one of your drunk posts.

Maybe instead of just ignoring all the links and resources you've been given, you put down the 40 and read them to educate yourself?

Your arguments have gotten worse than a high school activist.

[sarcasmic]

Black and red. Duh.

[Sevo]

turd lies. That's not a surprise to anyone who reads his constant stream of bullshit.
But it's becoming obvious that as Misek is too stupid to understand the concepts of "evidence" or "relevance", the concept of "honesty" is simply beyond turd's ken.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Whatever you think of his record, condolences to his family.

Clout Level: 0

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/VDAREJamesK/status/1730010687399702909?t=NEPh0UNFpi8FtVOGtR-ogQ&s=19

We used to say countries that treated their people this way needed regime change, by force if necessary.

[Link]

[sarcasmic]

You've gone from advocating for murder to advocating for violent regime change. No wonder so many people respect you.

[JesseAz]

Looks like I'll need to pull out your old posts again with you advocating death and violence. Maybe throw in some advocating for state abuse against people you hate.

Or just let you wallow in your common hypocrisy again. Meh.

[sarcasmic]

Tu quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/;[1] Latin Tū quoque, for "you also") is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack.

Form and explanation
The (fallacious) tu quoque argument follows the template (i.e. pattern):[2][dead link]

Person A claims that statement X is true.
Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
Therefore, X is false.

[JesseAz]

Pointing out your hypocrisy isn't a tu quoque. Especially when your original argument isn't an actual argument, but it is an accusation. And that's all it is.

Please stop using words you don't understand.

Also please stop being a hyporcite.

[sarcasmic]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

[JesseAz]

You weren't making an argument dumdum. My god, please stop using words you don't understand.

[R Mac]

WHOOOSH!!!

[Fats of Fury]

The Irish need to jam that call in line reporting the prime Minister, the Media Ministers and various MPs for their hate speech against the Irish. Have any addressed the issue of the Algerian, they let in, stabbing a woman and three children?

[Tyval Dayall]

Wouldn't it be awesome if at the next Kansas City Chiefs game, 80,000 people showed up in the stands with their faces painted red and black and wearing headdresses?

[JesseAz]

I still won't cheer for the Chiefs.

[Sevo]

The 79,000 in the back rows would object.

[Ajsloss]

I was at an Indian casino near Albuquerque several years ago. They were selling headdresses to white people! Over the sound of the cash register ringing, I did *not* hear them make any statements about who was and wasn't allowed to wear one.

[Sevo]

I remember the Amerindian protests outside FedEx Field regarding the Redskin's name, don't you?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I thought most of the people bitching about the name were white and Democrat?

[Chumby]

I recall Charles Mann, former player for them, three time SB champion, four time pro bowler (and black), supported changing the name before it was the current thing.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The Pueblos are pretty savvy about promoting stereotypical marketing when it's an easy sell. It's even more hilarious because they never wore anything like that unless it was specifically for a sacred religious ceremony like a community dance.

[Ajsloss]

And they weren't just selling this stuff, they were really trying to move it. I was holding some little trinket that was marked at $12, just minding my own business and reasonably expecting to pay $12. Out of nowhere, a store clerk came up to me and said he'd sell it to me for $8. I think the headdresses were marked at $400, but I guarantee they'd let them out the door for $250, even if you were white and said you were going to wear it on your porch while eating cereal.

[soldiermedic76]

I was at the local smoke shop back home several years ago (it's owned by the family of a girl I graduated with) and saw some 'authentic' Amerindian feather souvenirs. One still had the made in China sticker on it. I pointed it out to the clerk, and then remarked 'besides, the Coeur d'Alene never wore this style anyhow'. She replied, 'you and I know that, but most of the souyippies (not sure of the spelling but it isn't a nice word for white people) don't know that'.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

It's actually quite stunning how many stereotypes of Amerindians only come from a few Plains tribes.

[soldiermedic76]

It really is and how most of those 'plains' tribes only arrived on the plains about the same time as Europeans (or in the case of the Comanche, after the Spanish had established settlements two centuries old). It's like every time someone says to me 'Native Americans believe this...' I have to stop myself from asking them which tribe, because there is often a vast difference from one tribe to the next often in their beliefs systems, especially for tribes from different regions. Yeah, related tribes like the Spokane, Kalispell, Coeur d'Alene and Palouse have pretty overlapping beliefs (but still some differences), but vary greatly from the Lake Ojibwa, which they had no contact with (may have interacted slightly with Plains Ojibwa at things like fur rendezvous during the height of the American Fur Trade and after they began ceremonially hunting bison after acquiring horses, and that is all their buffalo hunts really were for the intermountain tribes, a ceremonial hunt, since their society was largely based on the Columbia River and it's tributaries, annual salmon run like most of the PNW tribes, supplemented by deer hunts and waterfowl hunts in the fall).

[soldiermedic76]

And the other thing that really needs to be considered, is that most of what we consider as Amerindian culture only developed post-European contact. The few pre-contact plains tribes for example, were semi-settled, largely agrarian societies that did hunt buffalo/bison seasonally but really focused on raising maize and squashes along the river bottoms. They also were likely, at least through trade networks but likely more, associated with the Mississippian/mound builders societies and the southwest Pueblo/Anasazi societies (and through those networks with East Coast societies and Meso-American societies). These cultures, the mound builders and Anasazi largely disappeared in the early 15th century, so the Amerindian cultures were already going through a massive cultural upheaval at the same time Columbus arrived. In Meso-America the dominant cultures, such as the Mayans,were also in severe decline in the century prior to Columbus and cultures like the Inca (in South America) and Aztec (Meso-America) were recent (historically speaking) invaders and conquerors of the declining dominant cultures. The Aztec may even have originated in the Great Basin,as their language is linguistically related to the Paiute, Ute, Shoshone, Bannocks etc. The Apacha and Navajo (Athabascan tribes from Northwest Canada) arrived in the Southwest about the same time as the Spanish did. What likely led to this huge disruption of established cultures in the preceding centuries before Columbus, was the very same thing that was disrupting Europe, the onset of the Little Ice Age. But unlike Europe, which became colder and far better, the Americas got colder and drier. That and Maize is a nutrient heavy crop, and there is evidence that these cultures depleted the soil, at the same time that drought was also becoming more frequent (preserved ears of corn became progressively smaller during this time frame, and other indications of nutrient deficiencies). Anyone who's interested should really read 1491 and 1493 by Mann.

[Jefferson Paul]

"But unlike Europe, which became colder and far BETTER, the Americas got colder and drier."

Freudian slip or typo?

(jk, I'm sure it was just a typo)

[soldiermedic76]

Supposed to be colder and far wetter. Not sure why it got changed to better.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

That's probably because they were the most striking examples on post-Civil War Americans' imaginations, since we were in conflict them the most during those final decades of the Indian wars, with newspapers writing these breathless articles about fights between the "soldiers and the savages."

Popular media such as dime novels tended to focus on them a lot, and Buffalo Bill's Wild West show is arguably the most important factor in cementing that stereotype in American myth.

[soldiermedic76]

There is that, and Hollywood. Most Westerns were written about the same era. So, many Westerns the tribes featured were the Plains tribes and to a lesser extent the southwestern tribes, for the same reason you list.

[soldiermedic76]

Another factor is these were considered some of the last 'wild' tribes around the same time that photography and motion pictures were gaining use. So, they tended to be photographed more often in their 'native garb' by the press and professional photographers and early anthropologists (or should I say proto-anthropokogists, which may be more accurate). Additionally, we can't forget the influence of Remington and Russell and other similar artists.

[soldiermedic76]

Another factor is that the Reports of Lewis and Clark were national (and even international) bestsellers in the years after their expedition (there were several different variants published, some of which may have been forged). Also, Cooper and Irving and their compatriots created a certain nostalgia for a 'lost America' that no longer existed in the East but supposedly did out west in Antebellum America. And during the first four decades of the 19th century, names like Astor, were striking it rich with the western fur trade, and just as the fur industry was dieing off, we acquired all this land from Mexico and gold was discovered in this newly acquired land. So, taken all together, it's not a surprise that the Plains tribes, and to a lesser extent, the Southwestern tribes, are synonymous with Amerindian culture in many Americans minds.

[Chumby]

Would this be organic or would participants need to make a reservation?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Either way as long as no one scalps the tickets.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Go fuck yourselves.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/they-can-go-fk-themselves-musk-slams-advertising-boycott-blackmail

In a truth-bomb-filled interview with Andrew Ross-Sorkin, at the DealBook Conference, Elon Musk silenced a room full of liberal elites as he proclaimed that: "...if someone wants to blackmail me with advertising, they can go fuck themselves."

"Don't advertise. If someone is going to try to blackmail me with advertising, blackmail me with money, go f**k yourself.

Go f**k yourself. Is that clear? I hope it is."

Sorkin then asked how Musk felt about that - and got a response he didn't expect:

"What I care about is the reality of goodness, not the perception of it...

...And what I see all over the place is people who care about LOOKING good, while DOING evil. Fuck them."

Adding that Democrats "appear to be more pro-censorship" and that he "could not see himself voting for Biden" but also refused to say who he would vote for.

Simply put, this discussion brought a whole new meaning to the phrase 'fuck you money!" as Musk says what he thinks without fear of woke retaliation.

[sarcasmic]

I like that guy.

[Commenter_XY]

I am a Musk fan, too. He is the 'Einstein' of our time.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

He is more like a raggedy-ass Steve Jobs. Latches on to a good idea and promotes it to the hilt.

[JesseAz]

Yeah, he ended the censorship you denied and claimed was a conspiracy theory. He has been good. You not so much.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

also refused to say who he would vote for

Musk is a Bernie-Bro. He can't say it anymore since he has decided to play with the Eric Cartman GOP boys.

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[Mother's Lament]

"Musk is a Bernie-Bro"

Pluggo swears he's not a Bidenista, but any support of a candidate that isn't Biden, no matter how ethereal, he thinks is just awful.

[Zeb]

Musk's buying of Twitter has turned out to be even better than I imagined.

[mad.casual]

Yeah. My refusal to join Twitter is about this close ->||<- to "Shut up and take my money/personal info."

[Ajsloss]

"Didn't turn out like I imagined." -Mastodon

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Don’t forget that he’s still a globalist shithead who thought Klaus Schwab’s brainchip fever dream was a good idea, but I do love the fact that he’s pissed off so many people I despise (who still hilariously can’t quit using his platform) just by being more politically neutral, rather than a brazen leftist propaganda organ for the US government it used to be.

[Zeb]

Yeah, I don't endorse everything Musk says, but I appreciate his independence and willingness to say whatever he wants.

[sarcasmic]

Can admire the guy without agreeing with him.

[I, Woodchipper]

Musk is the billionaire we dont deserve. He's so great.

[Chumby]

If this controversy drags on into a lengthy affair, it could be called Elongate.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Telling your government to go suck a shamrock.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/irish-villagers-erect-roadblocks-stop-govt-bussing-migrants-their-community

Residents of villages in Ireland have resorted to establishing barricades and road checkpoints around their communities to prevent the government from relocating asylum seekers to the area.

Locals of Dromahair in County Leitrim took the drastic measure to cordon off the village on Friday amid rumors the Department of Integration was planning to bus in dozens of foreign nationals without prior agreement by community leaders.

According to the Irish Examiner, three checkpoints were erected on roads around the village and members of the Dromahair Concerned Residents Association manned the roadblocks and checked cars as they sought to enter the area.

Protesters have expressed their discontent in recent days at the possibility of new arrivals to the town, citing security and the saturation of public services as their primary concerns.

The government plans to repurpose the Abbey Manor Hotel in the village to house dozens of asylum seekers but is facing fierce resistance as has also been seen in several other towns and villages across the country.

Similar scenes have been witnessed in Rosslare Harbour where the government is attempting to scrap the planned renovation of a derelict hotel into a nursing home and cater for hundreds of “male adult” migrants in a village that has already taken its fair share of refugees.

[Mickey Rat]

There was a case where the Irish governmnet proposed to house over 900 "migrants" in a village with only about 100 residents.

[Medulla Oblongata]

A derelict hotel in Ireland that had been earmarked to be converted into a nursing home will now be used to accommodate an initial 170 adult male asylum seekers — and that figure could quickly rise to 400.

The site was initially to be converted into a 90-bed nursing home, providing a vital service and generating employment opportunities for the local community, but these plans have now been scrapped.

Local councilors expressed their anger at the government’s decision to bestow on the village of just 1,200 residents further asylum seekers, having already established one refugee center in the local area.

“It’s disappointing and devastating for Rosslare Harbour, there’s no doubt about it,” said local councilor Ger Carthy as cited by the Irish Independent newspaper.

“Between the amount of refugees that we have currently in Rosslare Harbour and what’s planned for the Great Southern site, it will mean that this village will have taken in over 700 refugees. That will add about a third to the indigenous, settled population, with no additional services or provisions made,” he added.

https://www.amren.com/news/2023/11/residents-of-irish-village-rage-as-planned-nursing-home-is-scrapped-to-make-way-for-male-adult-migrants/

[JesseAz]

This just happened in NYC were elderly citizens in assisted living were forced out to make way for migrant families.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But why do these MIGA fascists think their village, and country, is for them? How dare they resist, er, seditiously refuse the orders given by their enlightened betters?

[R Mac]

And in response, the government is building Norman castles.

[Fats of Fury]

Maybe Leo's going to hire all the immigrants for government jobs.

https://www.tiktok.com/@snowflake_news/video/7305820522166635822?lang=en

BTW he's supposed to be the conservative guy.

[A Cynical Asshole]

Sigh...

a Deadspin journalist wrote a viral article criticizing a literal child for having his face painted red and black and wearing a headdress at a Kansas City Chiefs game

To be fair to the pinhead "journalist" who wrote the article, they probably have never watched a football game before, know nothing about the KC Chiefs (except that one of their players is dating Taylor Swift), and is more interested in stirring the pot, creating division, and appointing themselves the arbiter what minorities should be upset about. IOW, they're not a journalist, they're a political activist using the sudden popularity in their progtard bubble of the Chiefs to get their activist boner hard.

[JesseAz]

He is the Jamelle Hill of Deadspin.

[I, Woodchipper]

journalists are the enemy of the people full stop

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Like James Lindsay pointed out a couple of days ago, the issue is never actually the issue, the point is to advance the revolution. It could be literally anything that Phillips spazzed out about, but it would always be framed in the language of marxist ideology.

[R Mac]

Deadspin is supposed to be a sports publication. And you may still be right.

[Minadin]

"stirring the pot, creating division, and appointing themselves the arbiter what minorities should be upset about. [ . . .] they’re a political activist using the sudden popularity in their progtard bubble"

That is a journalist these days.

[Sevo]

"Nearly 4,000 Auto Dealers Send Letter To President Biden To Slow Down On EVs"
[...]
"The race to electric vehicles isn't one that just consumers are wary about. So, too, are auto dealers. This week, nearly 4,000 dealerships from across the country called on President Joe Biden to slow down electric vehicle (EV) mandates proposed by the federal government.
[...]
The group of 3,882 auto dealers goes on to cite concerns about lack of EV demand, saying enthusiasm for EVs "has stalled" and that "BEVs are stacking up on our lots"..."
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/nearly-4-000-auto-dealers-send-letter-to-18522502.php

Planned economies do not work.

[R Mac]

And in response the White House said gfys.

[Fats of Fury]

Those auto dealers should expect a visit from the FBI and named foreign and domestic terrorist dealers.

[Mickey Rat]

Information on the Dublin Knife Attack assailant shows what happens when a government is indifferent and incompetent at enforcing immigration law:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/new-details-on-the-dublin-assailant/

"The man, whose name cannot yet be shared, arrived in Ireland in 1999 and had been subject to deportation orders for several years. The government had repeatedly concluded that his asylum claim was bogus or defunct. He evaded those deportation orders with the help of government-funded NGOs, lobby groups that the government funds as a kind of astro-turfed civil society.

'At each step, until the 2008 court decision, the state firmly opposed any and all efforts to grant the suspect leave to remain in Ireland. For nine years, he had lived here without permission to remain. However, it should be noted that no efforts are on record of the state attempting to enforce the deportation order which was live, and in place, for a full five years. For a period of time, the suspect was classified as an “evader” — somebody who is actively evading the law and avoiding their own deportation.

Nevertheless, and arguably as a result, it came to be that the state was compelled, finally, to grant subsidiary protection, and leave to remain. The suspect later became a naturalised Irish citizen. Gript Media understands that he was never able to hold down a job in Ireland, and was provided with housing by at least one Irish NGO, separate to the NGOs that aided him in his legal battle against deportation.'"

"The amount of government largess expended on this Algerian man, compared with the tight circumstances most young Irish people aspiring to build a life find themselves in, is one that no elected government could stand to have scrutinized for long."

[mad.casual]

government-funded NGOs, lobby groups that the government funds as a kind of astro-turfed civil society

This excellent collection of words is worth reading twice.

[Agammamon]

Its so prevalent they even have a term for it - quango.

Quasi-NGO.

[mad.casual]

Yeah, but I also like the “astro-turfed civil society” part. Passing laws mandating tolerance or even just socially scolding the intolerant, despite civil libertarian’s most fervent wishes, doesn’t make a civil society, just the plastic appearance of a society where everyone is faking being civil until the next deplorable candidate gets elected or a never-before-seen national emergency arises.

Setting the field for a society where nobody uses the n-word but diverse mobs burning down minority-owned businesses, prosecuting people for self-defense, or shooting trespassers is the status quo.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Anarcho-tyranny--anarchy for the revolutionaries, tyranny for their opponents. It just so happens that the anarchists are the ones directing the governments.

[Zeb]

That's a funny kind of anarchist.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The double standard is the point.

[Mickey Rat]

But also the most common of those who claim to be Anarchists

[BYODB]

In fairness, 'true' anarchists basically don't exist. It's more of a catch-all label for people who disagree with whatever the current regime is but they all have an opinion on what kind of government should actually be 'in charge' and the answer is never 'none' for that type of 'activist'.

And besides that, anarchy is a transient state of being not an end. Something ordered always arises from anarchy, it just may take longer than a generation for it to happen.

[Zeb]

Or you can be the kind of anarchist that thinks anarchy is just reality and government has no special moral status or independent existence, but is just another group of people doing things and making choices that they bear individual moral responsibility for. That's pretty much where I'm at.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

He evaded those deportation orders with the help of government-funded NGOs, lobby groups that the government funds as a kind of astro-turfed civil society.

So the people at those groups are now being charged as accessories to murder, right?

[Fats of Fury]

Right, They'll be held accountable as the Government people in San Francisco in the killing of Kate Steinle.

[A Cynical Asshole]

Barf:

"Here is the awe-inspiring and intense scene of IRS agents in a futuristic command center, actively tracking down rich tax cheats."

Good fucking God, these people really do view themselves as a bunch of super heroes instead of the pathetic leeches who wouldn't last 5 seconds in the private sector that they are.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

I got to read the entire thread this morning, and it gave me nightmares. What's even worse is all the idiots cheering it on.

[Medulla Oblongata]

The "author" has his bio on X:

Tax enthusiast. Hyperinflation doubter. Soc dem in the streets, market socialist in the sheets.

[A Cynical Asshole]

Sounds like the kind of person who's face I'd like to punch, really fucking hard.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Why risk breaking a bone in your hand a sledgehammer is so much more effective?

[MK Ultra]

The pain would be a welcome reminder of a job properly done.

[Moonrocks]

Wait, he wasn’t posting that ironically? That looked exactly like a parody of what a tax enthusiast would like.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Guy says: "For every 10 likes, I'll make this image of a well funded tax collection agency more epic"

Tax collection being second in importance to only skin color.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

The best answer, I think, was this:

https://twitter.com/ChrisPacia/status/1730102827941306577

I sleep well at night knowing that in the future "tax enthusiast" will have the same reputation as "child porn enthusiast". Just as gross.

[A Cynical Asshole]

In biblical times "tax collector" was one of the most looked down upon professions. Maybe slightly above whores. I think we should go back to that.

[TheReEncogitationer]

We can, of course, still hate the tax collector while loving the hooker and all without the rest of the Bronze Age barbaric baggage.

[soldiermedic76]

That's a big part of the gospels that people often overlooks. The disciples were not people that Holy leaders would voluntarily associate with. Matthew was a tax collector, which even the Roman Senate, who employed them, saw as corrupt and everyone else treated about the same as the guy who removed the night soil. Peter and his brothers were fisherman. Jesus was the son of a carpenter, one of the lowest paid and reputable trades of the time. Basically, Jesus and his disciples came from the lowest rung of Judeo-Roman society, and Matthew was considered the lowest of these. That was one of the Pharisees biggest complaints, that Jesus mixed with 'the wrong side of the tracks' to use a more modern phrase.

[Moonrocks]

Maybe slightly above whores

I can't imagine why. Whores provide a service to their customers.

[A Cynical Asshole]

Actually now that I think about it some more, it’s possible they were even below whores in the social pecking order. Like you said, whores at least provide a service to their customers. All tax collectors do is steal.

[mad.casual]

second in importance to only skin color

I did personally note that, in the first image, everyone appears to be of a distinctly non-diverse color and, both images together, between 50 and [taps calculator] 97% of genders (save maybe one person) are absent.

[BYODB]

That's a piss poor AI generated image too.

Notice that Africa stretches off the bottom of their 'screen' and that's just one of the more obvious failings of the image. Look at it long enough and you'll find a lot more wrong with it.

[BYODB]

*South America stretches off the bottom, North America stretches across two screens.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

"That blackface story I mentioned yesterday, in which a Deadspin journalist wrote a viral article criticizing a literal child for having his face painted red and black and wearing a headdress at a Kansas City Chiefs game? It turns out, per the kid's mom, that he is Native American."

So what? The narrative has been cast and if this kid refuses to play his part, he will be sent to a boarding school for cultural reeducation, just like progressives did with his ancestors.

[A Cynical Asshole]

...just like progressives did with his ancestors.

Ouch. But also true, it always comes back to camps with these fuckwads.

[BYODB]

The irony isn't lost on me, but it certainly is lost on the progressives that champion that type of shit.

They just can't help but view themselves as white saviors. Don't pay so much attention to what they say, merely look at what they do.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Mayor Hypocrite.

https://cwbchicago.com/2023/11/chicago-mayor-brandon-johnson-motorcade-red-light-speeding-citations.html

It’s been five weeks since we reported that Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson’s motorcade SUVs had racked up 11 red light and speed camera tickets during his first five months in office. Perhaps the mayor saw our report as a challenge because his drivers have scored eight more citations since then.

For those keeping score, Johnson’s police-driven SUVs have collected 19 tickets since he took office on May 15. That’s about three per month. As of this morning, Johnson’s drivers owe the city $1,725 for outstanding violations. Their debts have more than doubled since our October report.

Among the motorcade car’s latest violations are speed camera citations that accuse the mayor’s drivers of whipping through school and park zones at highway speeds: 53 mph one time and 55 mph another.

[ed-for the record, a school zone in Illinois is 20 mph]

Here’s one of Brandon’s SUVs driving 55 mph in the 5400 block of West Irving Park Road, adjacent to Portage Park, around 11:30 a.m. on September 25.

On September 28, a camera caught two of the mayor’s SUVs zipping through the Gompers Park speed zone at 42 mph. We could only find a citation issued to one of the cars. Perhaps the camera wasn’t quick enough to cite them both. [ed-the speed limit there is 30 mph.]

During the mayoral campaign, Johnson called red light and speed cameras “an easy revenue grab by the city, and they’re horribly unfair.”

Before the general election, Johnson largely stopped short of saying he would get rid of the cameras, but he went there during the run-off campaign.

“I’m for phasing them out if the Constitution allows us to,” Johnson said a week before he would be elected. “And if we can’t, wherever a speed ticket has been accumulated or acquired, that ZIP code should get the revenue.”

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The school zone shit is particularly infuriating because Mayor Urkel is a former teacher.

I’ve noticed in his interviews that he does typical emotional de-escalation tactics that teachers do with students that are acting up–that is, they start talking in extremely soft tones and trying to re-direct anger through passive-voiced, opaque euphemisms and comments. It always happens when reporters try to pin him down on any of the stupid shit he says or does.

[soldiermedic76]

He was a teacher like Randi Weingartner was a teacher, maybe taught a year then spent the rest of his 'teaching career' as a paid union activist (on the taxpayers' dime).

[A Cynical Asshole]

"Laws for thee but not for me" is one of the few consistent principles the political class have.

[JohnZ]

Meanwhile in Chicago/year to date:
Shot and killed: 536
Shot and wounded: 2354
Total shot: 2890
Total homicides: 594
Come on Chicago, you can do it! Make it 600 homicides by next Sunday morning.
Just remember: don't demonize these homicides.

[Sevo]

"EVs are far less reliable than ICE as automakers launch new, high-tech models, Consumer Reports says"
[...]
"EVs had 79% more problems than gasoline vehicles, according to Consumer Reports' 2023 auto reliability survey."
https://www.autonews.com/retail/evs-are-less-reliable-gasoline-vehicles-because-new-tech

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yeah, the funny thing is that most new car problems now come from various tech components, which EVs are full of.

[JesseAz]

And to fix those problems only costs 5x as much.

[Chumby]

There are a battery of problems with these EVs.

[Don't look at me!]

It’s shocking, really.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Really. Who is in charge?

[Fats of Fury]

There are battery problems with ICE cars as the government mandated auto shut down of the engine when you come to a stop. All those start ups are wearing down the life of the battery. Batteries are upward of two hundred bucks these days.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Potential war in South America.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-increases-northern-border-military-presence-amid-venezuela-guyana-spat-2023-11-29/

Brazil "has intensified defensive actions" along its northern border as it monitors a territorial dispute between its neighbors, Guyana and Venezuela, the country's defense ministry said on Wednesday.

On Dec. 3, Venezuelans will vote in a referendum on "the rights" to the Esequiba. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is expected to rule on Friday on a request by Guyana that the referendum be called off. Venezuela's government has said it will go ahead no matter what.

[I, Woodchipper]

with what money will Venezuela fund a war?

[InsaneTrollLogic]

They may need something to take people's minds off how miserable they actually are. It worked for Argentina in 1982, didn't it?

Oh, wait...

[Fats of Fury]

Biden took in their refugees, probably in a bid for Venomouszuela to pump more oil.
He'll gladly fund their war.

[A Cynical Asshole]

He’ll gladly fund their war.

"We can afford 2 3 4 wars at once." - Janet Yellen, probably

[Moonrocks]

An army marches on its stomach, and the Caracas zoo is empty.

[A Cynical Asshole]

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is expected to rule on Friday on a request by Guyana that the referendum be called off. Venezuela’s government has said it will go ahead no matter what.

"How many divisions does the ICJ command?" - Venezuela's government

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

MAGA senator's attempt to discredit expert backfires at gun crime hearing (video)
.
Kennedy started by asking Ramey what he thought was a clever trap question: "Why do you think that Chicago has become America's largest outdoor shooting range? You think it's because of Chicago citizens who have no criminal record, but who have lawfully a gun in their home for protection? Or perhaps for hunting? Or do you think it's because of a finite group of criminals who have rap sheets as long as King Kong's arm?"
.
Ranney didn't take the bait. Instead, she told Kennedy that the state he represents is deadlier than Chicago.
.
"So Mississippi, Louisiana, and Missouri actually have higher firearm death rates," she said. "Obviously, there's certainly —
.
Unhappy with where this was going, Kennedy interrupted her and asked, "What about Chicago?"

https://boingboing.net/2023/11/28/maga-senators-attempt-to-discredit-expert-backfires-at-gun-crime-hearing-video.html

Grandstanding jackass Senator gets putdown by "uppity" female.

Hilarious.

And I am opposed to any gun ban. I just don't like asshole Senators either.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You don't live near Chicago either, dumbfuck.

"I don't live in Chicago," she said. "It's not my primary area of research." But she went on to say that Chicago's gun violence could likely be attributed to "easy access to firearms combined with environmental conditions," and "lack of great education. There's actually been studies showing that when you [add] green vacant lots and repair abandoned buildings in urban neighborhoods, you see decreases in gunshots and violence as well as in stress and depression in the neighborhoods around them.

Which is utter bullshit. Here's a more realistic take:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/chicago-sees-total-crime-drop-but-most-violent-crimes-up-over-decade/

Chicagoans reported 29% fewer crimes in 2022 than a decade earlier, but there were troubling spikes in violent crimes: assaults and motor vehicle thefts rose to their highest levels in a decade, and homicides were near a peak.

More troubling still: Chicago Police Department arrest rates fell to their lowest level in a decade during 2022. Less than 12% of all reported crimes resulted in an arrest, when the average was 22% during the decade. Police data shows these low arrest rates persisted through August of 2023.

There was also a 13% increase in total crime citywide during the first eight months of 2023 compared to the same period a year earlier.

Homicides, motor vehicle thefts and assaults all rose during the decade, with homicides up 41%. 2021 was Chicago’s deadliest year in the past 25 years.

Chicago Police Department arrest rates were the lowest in a decade during 2022. Less than 12% of the 238,722 crime reports resulted in arrests. Police made more than three times as many arrests a decade ago: 90,664 in 2012 compared to 27,711 in 2022.

Chicagoans reported 13% more crime overall in the first eight months of 2023 than from January through August of 2022, with cases of theft, assault, battery, robbery and motor vehicle theft all on the rise.

If the trend holds, 2023 total crime will surpass 2022 numbers. Motor vehicle thefts and assaults would also exceed their 10-year highs reported in 2022.

If you want to impress, Pluggo, try something other than BoingBoing next time.

[Sevo]

turd could also lie less, but then he wouldn't be the lying pile of lefty shit he is.

[JohnZ]

Chicago will likely see homicide reach 600 by the end of the week. It could very well happen.

[Fats of Fury]

2890 shot, if triage were the same as in the 60s and 70s that would mean 2890 dead.

[Sevo]

turd, TDS-addled the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

[JesseAz]

Look at shrike try to make a city vs state comparison since he can’t make a city to city comparison.

Weird how your citation ignores the follow up exchange by the witness that dismantles the argument.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Well, there's a point in there somewhere. Chicago is definitely NOT at the top of the murder list. But it is also the case that the murder rates in Democrat cities like St Louis and Kansa City tilt the state rates dramatically, same with New Orleans/Baton Rouge/Shreveport tilting the state of Louisiana.

An interesting question to me is what are the statewide rates when the cities are excluded? I don't have an answer, but I'd like to see the numbers if someone does.

1. St. Louis, MO
St. Louis, Missouri, has the highest murder rate in the United States of 60.9 murders per 100,000 residents. St. Louis had 205 murders in 2017. Certain neighborhoods in St. Louis are to blame for the high violent crime rates, such as East St. Louis. East St. Louis residents experience conditions that increase the likelihood of violence, such as unsafe housing, failing economy, and poor school systems. Although St. Louis has the highest murder rate in the country, this rate is the second consecutive year of improvement for the city, down from 69.4 in 2017.

2. Baltimore
Baltimore, Maryland, has a murder rate of 57 murders per 100,000 people, the second-highest in the U.S. In 2019, Baltimore had at least 348 reported homicides, only 32% of which were cleared (“cleared” cases are ones where someone is either arrested, charged, or turned over to a court). This is the city’s second-highest murder rate since 1993 when there were 353 killings and 125,000 additional residents.

3. Detroit, MI
Detroit, Michigan, has the third-highest murder rate in the United States of 40.4 per 100,000. Detroit ended 2019 with 271 homicides, an increase from 259 the previous year. However, this is one of only four years that the city has recorded fewer than 300 homicides since 1967. The Detroit police chief James Craig said that a wave of gang violence caused the homicide rate to increase for 2019.

4. New Orleans, LA
New Orleans has the fourth-highest murder rate in the U.S. For the third year in a row, the city saw a reduction in its murder rate, ending 2019 with a murder rate of 30 per 100,000 or 119 homicides.

5. Baton Rouge, LA
Baton Rouge is the second Louisiana city on the list and has the fifth-highest murder rate in the United States. Louisiana’s capital city has a total of 83 homicides in 2019, a murder rate of 33.5 per 100,000. Luckily, the city is has seen consecutive years of decreasing murders, down from 87 in 2018 and 106 in 2017.

6. Memphis, TN
Memphis, Tennessee, has a murder rate of 28.5 per 100,000 as of 2018, the sixth-highest in the country. Memphis had 191 homicides in 2019, an increase from 18 in 2018 and 180 in 2017. There were just over 400 homicides in the state of Tennessee in 2019, meaning that almost one out of two homicides occurred in Memphis. About 90% of solved homicides showed that the victim and offender knew each other.

7. Dayton, OH
With a murder rate of 26.4 per 100,000, Dayton, Ohio, has the seventh-highest murder rate in the U.S. Crime fell significantly in both 2017 and 2018, and 2019 has an even better outlook. Crime in 2019 overall fell 11% in Dayton from 2018.

8. Shreveport, LA
Shreveport is the third Louisiana city in the ten cities with the highest murder rates and ranks eighth. Shreveport has a murder rate of about 18.3 murders per 100,000 people for a total of 42 murders. Violent crimes overall have dropped about 8% since 2018, with homicides dropping 29% from 59 in 2018 to 42 in 2019.

9. West Palm Beach, FL
West Palm Beach, Florida, has the ninth-highest murder rate in the United States of 17.2 murders per 100,000 people. The city’s homicide rate dropped 29% from 2018 to 2019, from 27 homicides to 19. West Palm Beach police have implemented new technologies that they believe is helping reduce violent crime in the city.

10. Washington, D.C.
Washington D.C. has the tenth-highest murder rate in the country of 22.8 murders per 100,000. There were 162 homicides in D.C. in 2019, two higher than in 2018. Gun violence is a big problem in D.C. and the main cause of death in homicides; however, nearly 8 out of 10 gunshots go unreported in D.C., a statistic that prompted the police to begin using ShotSpotter technology to detect and alert police of gunshots.

[Michael Ejercito]

Have you heard of Operation: Ceasefire?

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/how-the-gun-control-debate-ignores-black-lives/80445/

Lost in the debate is that even in high-crime cities, the risk of gun violence is mostly concentrated among a small number of men. In Oakland, for instance, crime experts working with the police department a few years ago found that about 1,000 active members of a few dozen street groups drove most homicides. That’s .3 percent of Oakland’s population. And even within this subgroup, risk fluctuated according to feuds and other beefs. In practical terms, the experts found that over a given stretch of several months only about 50 to 100 men are at the highest risk of shooting someone or getting shot.

ProPublica chart Black Americans Murdered by Guns
Most of these men have criminal records. But it’s not drug deals or turf wars that drives most of the shootings.

Instead, the violence often starts with what seems to outsiders like trivial stuff — “a fight over a girlfriend, a couple of words, a dispute over a dice game,” said Vaughn Crandall, a senior strategist at the California Partnership for Safe Communities, which did the homicide analysis for Oakland.

Somebody gets shot. These are men who do not trust the police to keep them safe, so “they take matters into their own hands,” he said. It’s long-running feuds, Crandall said, that drive most murders in Oakland.

Men involved in these conflicts may want a safer life, but it’s hard for them to put their guns down. “The challenge is that there is no graceful way to bow out of the game,” said Reygan Harmon, the director of Oakland Police Department’s violence reduction program.

These insights led a group of Boston police, black ministers and academics to try a new approach in 1996. Since group dynamics were driving the violence, they decided to hold the groups accountable. The plan was simple: Identify the small groups of young men most likely to shoot or be shot. Call them in to meet face-to-face with police brass, former gang members, clergy and social workers. Explain to the invitees that they were at high risk of dying. Promise an immediate crackdown on every member of the next group that put a body on the ground — and immediate assistance for everyone who wanted help turning their lives around. Then follow up on those promises.

The results of Operation Ceasefire were dramatic. Soon after Boston held its first meeting — known as a call-in — on May 15, 1996, homicides of young men plummeted along with reports of shots fired.

The Rev. Jeff Brown, one of the ministers who worked on the project, remembers people were outside more, barbecuing in the park. At Halloween, kids were able to trick-or-treat on the streets again.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I've pointed out repeatedly that statistics show that if gang violence was removed, the US would have Europe levels of gun violence. That's why crime went through the basement when Bukele started throwing El Salvador's gang members in prison.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Yes, and I've heard of Project Exile, in RIchmond Va,

---------------
An illegal gun gets you five years in federal prison.

In Richmond neighborhoods like Gilpin Court, Randolph, Blackwell and Creighton Court, the message resonates. Long plagued by gun violence and crippled by the intimidation that reporting guns on the street means risking your life, its residents have started to feel like there's a solution to the mayhem. What's more, they've gotten involved with the program.

Project Exile, the aggressive strategy partnered by local, state and federal law enforcement and prosecution, and designed to halt violent crime, has swiftly put the fear of punishment back into the criminal equation. In just three years, it's helped cut Richmond's murder rate in half — and then half again. It's helped drop the city from fifth to 75th in murder rate per capita. Project Exile has helped residents of troubled neighborhoods and urban business owners feel they have the power to take back their streets — or at least report when they're besieged by guns.

[M]ost Richmonders get the message: Project Exile means business. Making use of stiffer, swifter penalties in federal courts, many gun cases skip the state system and are prosecuted federally where bond is unlikely, sentences average 56 months, and convicts are locked up as far away as Texas.
---------

But, of course, that was widely opposed despite its success because it was "racist".

[R Mac]

I don’t go much because of parking, traffic, etc, but if you go to the part of downtown Detroit where the stadiums and theaters are, you’re pretty safe. And the part of downtown Flint with the bars and restaurants is pretty safe as well, although that can change VERY quickly if you head the wrong direction.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

21st century Detroit seems to have developed in a way where the downtown area is like any other neo-yuppie government renewal commercial district, the area's outside of that are a hacked-up wasteland, and the outer rings/suburbs are super-nice.

[R Mac]

Generally. Some of the suburbs are super nice, most are nice, and there’s a couple that are pretty shitty.

[TheReEncogitationer]

So basically “Honor Culture”, the OG version of Snowflakery, is what drives urban crime. Very interesting…and further indictment of the “words are violence” mindset slithering down from Academia.

These men need to be untaught this and retaught that mere words don’t make you who you are. Ministers, of course, are no help here.

[Minadin]

St. Louis, MO:

East St. Louis isn't even in the same state. That's Illinois.

It's true that a handful of zip codes, and an even smaller subset of the population, are responsible for the majority of violent crime here, though.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

East St Louis, along with Chicago and Harvey, pump up Illinois's numbers.

[Dillinger]

ya. keep out of St. Louis on the west side of the river too.

[Medulla Oblongata]

I'm trying hard to recall any rant you've ever made against any one of the following asshole Senators:

Baldwin, Tammy
Manchin, Joe, III
Cantwell, Maria
Murray, Patty
Kaine, Tim
Warner, Mark R.
Welch, Peter
Reed, Jack
Whitehouse, Sheldon
Casey, Robert P., Jr.
Fetterman, John
Merkley, Jeff
Wyden, Ron
Brown, Sherrod
Gillibrand, Kirsten E.
Schumer, Charles E.
Heinrich, Martin
Luján, Ben Ray
Booker, Cory A.
Menendez, Robert
Hassan, Margaret Wood
Shaheen, Jeanne
Cortez Masto, Catherine
Rosen, Jacky
Tester, Jon Montana
Klobuchar, Amy
Smith, Tina Minnesota
Peters, Gary C.
Stabenow, Debbie
Markey, Edward J.
Warren, Elizabeth
Cardin, Benjamin L.
Van Hollen, Chris
Duckworth, Tammy
Durbin, Richard J.
Hirono, Mazie K.
Schatz, Brian
Ossoff, Jon
Warnock, Raphael G.
Carper, Thomas R.
Coons, Christopher A.
Blumenthal, Richard
Murphy, Christopher
Bennet, Michael F.
Hickenlooper, John W.
Butler, Laphonza R.
Padilla, Alex
Kelly, Mark Arizona
Sanders, Bernard
King, Angus S., Jr.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Just Bernie and the Squaw. I loathe both of them and yes - they grandstand like Republicans do. But I loathe them more for other reasons.

And Menendez should be indicted and on trial by now. He is almost certainly guilty - 99.9% chance.

The GOP doesn't have all the grandstanding assholes - but close.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Grandstanding, you say? Grandstanding you'll get.

Here's Dick(less) Durbin from 2018, grandstanding in the Senate:

https://lawandcrime.com/supreme-court/dick-durbin-unloads-on-trump-and-suggests-kavanaughs-a-liar-during-chaotic-hearing/

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) unloaded on President Donald Trump during Tuesday confirmation hearings for Judge Brett Kavanaugh, Trump’s pick for the Supreme Court of the United States.

Pointing his finger at a stoic Kavanaugh, Durbin said, “You are the nominee of President Donald John Trump. This is a president who has shown us consistently that he’s contemptuous of the rule of law. He has said and done things as president which we have never seen before in our history.”

From there, Durbin said Trump fired the director of the FBI, James Comey, when Comey “wouldn’t bend to [Trump’s] will,” and that Trump “harasses and threatens his own attorney general,” Jeff Sessions. “There should be some respect at least for the office that he serves in,” Durbin said with reference to Sessions.

From there, Durbin made the connection from president to nominee: “It’s that president who decided you are his man. You’re the person he wants on the Supreme Court. Your are his personal choice. Are people nervous about this? Are they concerned about it? Of course they are!” Durbin emphasized.

“President Trump, whose lawyers say they will fight any effort to subpoena or indict him all the way to the Supreme Court, that president seems personally eager to have you confirmed as quickly as possible,” Durbin later said.

“President Trump made it that clear he would appoint justices — only appoint justices — to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v. Wade and the Affordable Care Act. Those were his litmus tests,” Durbin went on to say. Citing Kavanaugh’s former clerks, Durbin said Kavanaugh considered the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) to be “unprecedented and unlawful,” and that Kavanaugh has a “strong” and “consistent” record of enforcing restrictions against abortion.

Durbin also told Kavanaugh that he was, before becoming a judge, “faithfully advancing the Republican party agenda . . . you’re like the Forrest Gump of Republican politics . . . you always show up in the picture.” Durbin said he was referencing the Ken Starr investigation of Bill Clinton, Bush v. Gore, and Kavanaugh’s work in the Bush White House.

Yet, you only go after the others for grandstanding?

[R Mac]

Turd lies.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Tammy Duckworth(less) grandstands as well, but you make no mention of this waste of space.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

To be fair, grandstanding is the only kind of standing Duckworth is capable of doing.

[Minadin]

"Tammy! Stand up, let 'em see ya!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkr-lePr7jA

[JesseAz]

Don't you mean grandsits?

[Commenter_XY]

And Menendez should be indicted and on trial by now. He is almost certainly guilty – 99.9% chance.

You missed a 9...it is a 99.99% chance. Menendez is as corrupt as the day is long.

[Minadin]

He also shouldn't be on trial now. He should have been convicted previously.

At least it was pretty hilarious that he was caught with his suit jacket pockets stuffed with literal envelopes full of literal benjamins. Like a cartoon version of a crooked politician on a bad TV serial.

[Mickey Rat]

She deflected that with a "whataboutism" and avoided answering the direct question. Yes, that was a brave deployment of logical fallacies.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

LOL, yeah, let's not talk about such red havens as New Orleans or Jackson when discussing state-by-state gun crimes.

[mad.casual]

OK, artificial intelligence has officially gone too far

[tilts hand] Looks pretty “Evil command/brainwashing center staffed by endless copies of Agent Smith” to me.

The flock of white raptors or carrions (they sure don't look like pigeons) is a nice touch.

[Dillinger]

>>endless copies of Agent Smith

bigoted A.I. made them all the same color. wherefore, Benetton?

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1730065248093110449?t=rWx8Uxt-II2YlCEMYrjqNw&s=19

Remember: no Americans ever voted for this, and it will never be put up for a vote, and they and all of their children will get the vote

[Link]

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Kissinger Dies

Fuck that asshole.

Shane McGowan has died. That is someone who should be mourned instead of some statist asshole.

[Sevo]

turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

[Beezard]

This is one of those times the broken clock is accidentally right.

Shane MacGowan did die. And that sucks way more to me than Kissinger dying.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Yet Henry stood up for every neocon element and crusade that you now seem to champion.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Wrong kind of statist values?

[Mother's Lament]

"Fuck that asshole."

Klaus Schwab's mentor and George Soros' chief ally? Look at you pretend, Buttplug.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

No one believes your bullshit.

[Chumby]

Why do you have a 2 after your name, you dirty old clown?

Documentary on Fairytale of New York

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TUSNzqqLFT0&t=1946s&pp=ygUhZmFpcnl0YWxlIG9mIG5ldyB5b3JrIGRvY3VtZW50YXJ5

[Beezard]

Stop. Im MacGowan to cry if I hear that song right now.

[Chumby]

Fans would be inshane not feel sorrow.

[Dillinger]

love how puns are always en pogue.

[Chumby]

They raise the ire in some.

[MK Ultra]

Busted clock is correct on this point. Best songwriter in my lifetime.

[BillyG]

That blackface story I mentioned yesterday...

Call it what it is: HOAX.

[Brandybuck]

Henry Kissinger
How I'm missing yer
You're the Doctor of my dreams
With your crinkly hair and your glassy stare

And your machiavellian schemes
I know they say that you are very vain
And short and fat and pushy
but at least you're not insane

Henry Kissinger
How I'm missing yer
And wishing you were here

Henry Kissinger
How I'm missing yer
You're so chubby and so neat
With your funny clothes and your squishy nose

You're like a German parakeet
All right so people say that you don't care
But you've got nicer legs than Hitler
And bigger tits than Cher

Henry Kissinger
How I'm missing yer
And wishing you were here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVGV6lvNTR4

[TheReEncogitationer]

Check out the video I posted above, complete with a photo montage of Kissinger.

[Mickey Rat]

""If the U.S. empire is indispensable to justice and liberalism," posited Richman, then "we are in trouble. The record is not encouraging. Kissingerian 'realism' creates global threats.""

Ah, yes. The "nothing bad will happen in the world without US hegemony" theory of global politics. Nonsense on stilts.

[mad.casual]

To be fair, right up to the word 'Kissingerian', he's not wrong.

[Mickey Rat]

I had forgotten how unhinged Richman's article was. It was just a screed making no real arguments.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

From Chumby in the other thread:

https://reason.com/2023/11/30/you-have-the-best-videos-anywhere-online-a-reason-to-support-reason/?comments=true#comment-10336906

To the tune of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer

Brandon the brown pants reign here,
Had a child friendly nose,
And if you ever saw him,
You would say he’s like pedos.

All of the others reign here,
Ignore this, don’t call him names,
They always let creep Brandon,
Cosplay those Pluggo games.

Then one foggy scripted speech,
Nambla came to say,
Brandon with your sniffing plight,
Won’t you whiff a kid tonight.

Then all in fear fake loved him,
MSM cheered on in glee,
Brandon the pedo reign here,
You own this economy.

[Commenter_XY]

Ouch

[Chumby]

I give Chumby a 1/10.

[Agammamon]

"—which he calls "unwatchable."

Oh, they're watchable all right.

Haley, for example, just secured her nomination by parroting the lines that the RINO's and DNC love - we must all be forced to identify ourselves online, for public safety, of course.

Anyone that authoritarian is going to be a favorite of the establishment. Look at how long it took New Zealand to get rid of Acern? Or the Irish parliament - loudest voices for locking up people who say naughty things are the women MP's.

[NOYB2]

Haley is the favorite candidate of the Bush/Cheney/McCain wing of the Republicans, as well as the Democrats and the Lincoln project.

Haley will run a respectable campaign, paying lip service to globalism and war mongering, and then gracefully lose to whoever the Democratic candidate will be. After the election, she'll go quietly and not complain about election irregularities. Then, Republicans can finally enjoy their sinecures again without the burden or bad press associated with actual responsibilities. Even having a small majority in the House has strained their black, geriatric little hearts far too much.

[JesseAz]

And Koch funded Americans for Prosperity.

[Agammamon]

"Also on the unconventional formatting front: Tonight, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, will face off against Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican who is running for president. They'll most likely debate crime, COVID-19, immigration, and the economic health of the two states."

Oh, Ron, you idiot. Why are you doing something so stupid?

Newsome isn't running. You gain nothing by this. All you do is allow Newsome to get more stupid shit to post on Twitter.

Unless you're going to hit him on fucking his employees . . .

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Or just haul off and punch him on live TV. That might boost his campaign.

[mad.casual]

Change "haul off and punch him" to "hit him with a folding chair" and I'm in!

[Agammamon]

"That blackface story I mentioned yesterday, in which a Deadspin journalist wrote a viral article criticizing a literal child for having his face painted red and black and wearing a headdress at a Kansas City Chiefs game? It turns out, per the kid's mom, that he is Native American."

Don't. Stop. Just stop.

Stop giving into this stupid narrative that painting your face black is the same as minstrelly. Stop giving into the narrative that some races can do things other races can't - being native american doesn't mean you can paint your face red any more than any other race can.

[mad.casual]

Even at that, minstrel shows aren’t exactly that terrible. I personally wouldn’t go see the Wayans Brothers in a White Chicks sequel (or the original), but I don’t think they should be banished from all of Western Civilization because of it. Especially given the ‘tolerance’ for people dressing up in woman-face to steal women’s accolades and sexualize children.

Edit: Maybe there's a distinction between minstrel shows and someone appearing in blackface that I'm obfuscating but that's not the intent. Rather the opposite, there are jokes, there are criticisms, there is racism, and there is illegal discrimination and/or violent racism. Skin color or the imitation thereof is not intrinsic or explicit in any of them.

[Agammamon]

"Israel-Hamas ceasefire extended: Early this morning, right before the temporary ceasefire was set to expire, mediators managed to negotiate one more day of pause in the fighting between Israel and Hamas. This will allow more October 7 hostages to be released, and for more aid to get into southern Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are sheltering and in dire need.

Within Israel's borders, "at least three people were killed and six others wounded when two Palestinian gunmen affiliated with Hamas opened fire near a bus stop on the outskirts of Jerusalem," early this morning, according to Israeli law enforcement, reported The New York Time"

That doesn't sound like the ceasefire has been extended. Sounds like Hamas has declared it is over and that Israel needs to get back to bombing.

[Agammamon]

"i am once again begging the previous board to say something that isn't pastel colored corporate pablum"

They can't. The AI controls them now.

[Chumby]

Kissinger will not be down for breakfast.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

And here I was thinking that even the Devil didn't want Kissinger in Hell.

[Chumby]

Henry is staying in the Robert McNamara wing on the fourth plane of hell.

[Dillinger]

malaria & hourly carpet bombings?

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Explosive dysentery for the rest of eternity.

[JohnZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=_J2VwFDV4-g
McNamara's folley

[TheReEncogitationer]

One can only wish, M'Chumby. That is yet another reason why we need justice in the only life there is.

[Fats of Fury]

Is Toner out at OpenAI or is OpenAI out of Toner?

[mad.casual]

You: Are you missing Toner?
ChatGPT: As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, I don’t have specific information about any developments or events related to “Toner” in the context you mentioned. If there have been updates or changes since then, I would not be aware of them. Could you please provide more context or details about what you mean by “missing Toner”?

[Don't look at me!]

Using a lot of ink about Toner.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2]

Since everyone is posting their song lyrics --- the Buttplug Ode to Free Trade (sung to Rocket Man by Elton John)

Trump picked my pockets last night pre-flight
Zero hour 9:00 a.m.
And I’m gonna be broke
As a bum by then
I miss liberty so much I miss my life
It’s lonely without Nancy Mace
On such a worthless flight
And I think it’s gonna be a long, long time
‘Til Tariff Man brings me ’round again to find
I’m not the rich man they think I am at home
Oh, no, no, no
I’m not a MAGA man
Tariff Man, burning up my cash up here alone

BRILLIANT!

[Mother's Lament]

"BRILLIANT!"

Poor Pluggo.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Tell us you're a neocon statist on Soros's payroll without actually telling us outright that you're a neocon statist on Soros's payroll.

[Chumby]

And I guess that’s why you call it the blues,
Slime on your hands, your victim got loose,
Pluggo like children, wannabe lovers,
Itchin for plunder, under the covers,
And I guess that’s why you call it the blues

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Just stare at the screen
Picture a kid in your hands
Fap for each second without hesitation
And never forget Tim's your man

[Mother's Lament]

BRILLIANT!

[Dillinger]

>>Tonight, California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, will face off against Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis

is a direct payment from the Haley campaign to Hannity a violation?

[Minadin]

Technically, no.

[Dillinger]

>>Preeminent foreign policy commentator Mia Khalifa

love this ^^ lol

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Preeminent foreign policy commentator Mia Khalifa decided to give her OnlyFans subscribers a discount in celebration of Kissinger's death (discount code: ByeBitch), in a decidedly 2023 twist.

Would it be Reason if we didn't put the death of a towering figure of global foreign policy into a context of an actress who starred in Butt Pirates 3, Anal Across the Ocean?

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Honestly, this seems like just about exactly the correct amount of respect for Kissinger.

[mad.casual]

[looks down, scratches eyebrow]

While I'm aware of who Kissinger is, I've never seen Butt Pirates 3, Anal Across the Ocean. If that's what you got out of Liz's comment, that's some pretty damning praise for Butt Pirates 3.

[Beezard]

The saddest part is I’m not sure Khalifa ever even did anal. She can’t even Pornstar without being lame.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“Butt pirates 3: anal across the ocean.”

If that’s a real title, that’s awesome.

Also, if that’s not a real title, it’s still awesome.

[Dillinger]

>>That blackface story I mentioned yesterday

missed it. did you deliver the proper number of ha-has at that chick Carron Phillips?

[Dillinger]

my favorite Kissinger moment was when he lost his glasses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQNV3KGQiS0

[Chumby]

My favorite Kissinger moment was last night. Sic semper tyrannis.

[Mother's Lament]

Lot of prematurely dead people waiting for him on the other bank of the Styx.

[Bill Dalasio]

I know today is the day everyone wants to crap all over Henry Kissinger's corpse. And maybe at least some of it is deserved. But, honestly, a lot of the crapping reminds me of one the things that I did like about him - he wasn't an idiot. Reading into his positions, while he certainly wasn't a non-interventionist, he also dismissed the hyper-interventionism of the neo-conservatives and liberal internationalists. And, honestly, I suspect no small part of the scorn reserved for him by boomers is a deflection of their hatred for the Vietnam War, in general. Of course, neither Henry Kissinger nor Richard Nixon had the option of America never having gotten involved in the war. So, any evaluation of their decisions has to be in the context of their constrained options. Unfortunately, a lot of the foreign policy thought hat has come around after him (on both sides) sounds like idiot blather out of a high school clique popularity contest ("We should kick their butt!"; "Noooo....we should all make niiiiicce!"; "Well they aren't the cool kids, anyway!").

[Don't look at me!]

Hey, he was banging Jill st.john. Kudos.

[Chumby]

They had the option of leaving Vietnam after Nixon’s first election instead of doubling down until congress eventually stopped funding for it. The Vietnamese were throwing off their European colonial masters and should have been applauded for that instead of bombed.

[Mickey Rat]

The French Indochina colony had been dissolved years before Kissinger and Nixon took office. What are you babbling about?

[Chumby]

After the French were defeated, the US had its vassal/proxy state in the south. No, that wasn’t a Nixon-Kissinger collaboration to start that. In 1969, when Nixon took office, Nixon-Kissinger had the opportunity to leave Vietnam and they did not. They continued the hostilities.

[Fats of Fury]

There are 6 billionaires in Vietnam. The Vietnamese are sewing our clothes and making many things for Apple, Intel, Qualcomm, Universal Alloy Corporation, Nike, and Key Tronic EMS. So who really won the war?

[Chumby]

Vietnam won the war. They kicked out the French, they defeated the Americans, and they decided their own future for themselves. They likely would be doing the same things today had America not intervened, albeit with 50,000 Americans not killed and without the copious amount of tax money that went to the MIC.

[soldiermedic76]

Uhm, China and Soviet Russia would like a word with you about Vietnam deciding their own path. And, America didn't interfere first, after the French left (were forced out) the Soviets and Chicom did the same thing they had done in North Korea. Also, they didn't force the US out, Kissinger and Nixon did get most of what they wanted in the Paris Conference (contrary to myth) and the ARVN was successfully resisting the NVA in 1975, right up until Congress withheld previously promised (and largely paid for) military aid. The communist movement was not popular in the south (at its height in the early 1960s the VC never numbered more than a couple tens of thousands). Most of what was termed VC was actually NVA regulars disguised as locals. No Vietnam didn't choose, the north forced the south, at gunpoint, to adopt a government fully supported (and often directed) from Beijing and Moscow (at least prior to 1979, and one of the large reasons behind the Sino-Vietnam war is because Hanoi was closer to Moscow than to Beijing, politically). Why do you think millions of South Vietnamese fled the country post 1975, because they didn't choose or want to live under the Communist North (and North and South Vietnam really were different cultures forced together by colonial France).

[Chumby]

Um, the US sacrificed tens of thousands of American lives and borrowed copious amounts of money playing Karen the globalist world building hall monitor. For what?
Vietnam was a war of independence followed by a civil war to figure out which system they would use. Unless the North taking over the entire country was part of the Paris Peace Accord, I’d say that didn’t work out so well.
The military has no money. It takes it from the taxpayer/has it printed.
There are a lot of people that leave places after independence/revolution; none of that justifies US govt military involvement or funding. Unfortunately, lessons were not learned there with adjacent repeats in the ME. The silver lining to Ukraine is that formal, out in the open military action has not occurred.

[soldiermedic76]

Wasn't defending US involvement was pointing out the bullshit that what happened was what the Vietnamese (especially in the South) wanted. And who pays for the military is rather beside the point, as the weapons and munitions promised had already been purchased, a lot by the South Vietnamese government, when Congress voted not to send them. Basically, the munitions were bought and paid for and then we didn't deliver as promised to the customers. And the only reason Paris failed was because we broke the promise we had made to South Vietnam. And we withheld vital equipment and munitions that were already paid for. Congress basically voted to break a contract with no fore warning and right when they needed it the most. We weren't involved mulitarily by that point. We weren't sending troops or even discussing it, and they, Congress, wasn't voting to appropriate more money, they simply voted to betray South Vietnam right when they needed what was promised them the most, thus insuring that those 50,000 Americans died for nothing. You might be okay with Congress stabbing them in the back, but I tend to take a very dim view of oath breakers.

[Chumby]

Throwing more money into a failed activity would only have made it worse as would have sending more Americans there to die. The materiel was paid for with money coerced from Americans and printed. Doubling down, tripling down, and quadrupling down on military adventurism/globalism doesn’t change that the first move was wrong and only exacerbates the failure.
If folks in the US wanted to support the South, they should have written checks and bought their own plane tickets to head there to volunteer. Given that the US had to lower the entry standards (McNamara’s morons) then indenture soldiers via a draft, it is unlikely that would have occurred in any numbers.
The stab in the back was the US govt vs American citizens.

[soldiermedic76]

It only failed because we didn't send the stuff. They were actually winning when they had ammo. And much of it was paid for by the government of South Vietnam. You keep skipping that part. They bought and paid for much of it and Congress fucked them over. Turning a win into a massive defeat. And creating the very myth you keep peddling.

[Chumby]

It failed because of western hubris. Thankfully, eventually, adults made the decision to uninvolve the US and allow things to play out as they always would. Unfortunately, many lives were lost as well as a fortune spent. Also unfortunately, all the UXO the military left behind as well as the chemical contamination continue to persist as hazards to the citizens there.

[soldiermedic76]

The French left Vietnam in the mid 50s. After that, it was the same story as Korea, where the Chicom and Soviet puppet state tried to exert its control over the entire country. Maybe we shouldn't have been there, but don't pretend like what was happening in the 1960s was some organic, nativist movement, it was entirely being orchestrated by outside powers, and we weren't even the instigators. Of course Truman fucked up when he chose to reject Vietnamese independence post War in favor of re-establishing French colonial rule (and Eisenhower furthered the fuck up after he was elected). Nixon basically had ended US combat during his first term, we had drastically drew down by 1972, and had largely ended ground offensives by that time. And South Vietnam was holding its own in 1975, until Congress voted to not send military aid that had already been promised (and largely paid for). They had stopped the NVA cold and only folded when they ran out of ammunition. There's a lot of myths about Vietnam, one of the largest is that the VC movement was a large movement (it wasn't and had largely ceased to be a fighting force after 1967, most of what was termed VC after 1967 was NVA troops disguised as locals). The second biggest myth is the US lost Tet, it actually was a tactical disaster for North Vietnam, and would have been a strategic disaster if the US media hadn't lied about it. The third biggest myth is that Nixon's Vietnamization failed, it really didn't the ARVN after 1969 did become an effective fighting force and was able to hold back the NVA right up until they ran out of ammo (it's kinda hard to continue to resist when you are out of ammo). Unlike the ANA, the ARVN didn't fold without firing a shot. The reason they collapsed suddenly wasn't because of a lack of professionalism or defeatism or nihilism (again unlike the ANA in 2020) it was because of an acute shortage of beans and bullets.

[Chumby]

They wanted independence. They found partners that could assist. Sounds like France helping the colonies kick out the British. They certainly didn’t want some western, dogmatic overseer dictating to them how their country would be operated submitting permission slips as to what they could do. McNamara later in life admitted this.
Over 20,000 US soldiers were killed there under Nixon. That doesn’t sound like combat had basically been ended.
The US govt was deficit spending at the time and the military has no money of its own. Nothing was “largely paid for.” If individuals wanted to fund and fight for the South, they should have been free to do so. The US govt should have stayed out of it. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and LBJ. When Nixon came into office, regardless of who did what before, he and Kissinger should have followed the path out instead of pushing in more chips.

[soldiermedic76]

Who is they? Was it ever voted on? Did the ones in the South agree? No they didn't. Sorry, but they wanted independence is a gross overstatement. Maybe study pre colonial Vietnamese history. And realize that North and South Vietnam really weren't even close to being a unified culture. And that the North forced their government on the South.

[soldiermedic76]

The North Vietnamese government was exactly as popular and organic as the Kims in North Korea. As popular and organic as the Communist regimes of Hungary and Poland et al. But because it was against a colonial power we pretend differently (BTW, the North had been the colonial powers in the South just prior to the French taking over).

[Chumby]

The Vietnamese leadership defeated the French then the Americans, despite however little popularity they had.
Central and Eastern Europe at the end of WW2 had millions of Red Army soldiers on their ground. Their future was going to have input from Moscow. As West Germany and Japan had input from Washington.
To circle back, Vietnam was not part of the United States where funds, weapons, and soldiers should not have been sent by Washington. There wasn’t an adult in the room until years later when congress closed the checkbook. Folks are free to head there today to carry on the battle as they are for Ukraine, Israel, Gaza, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and a host of other places.

[soldiermedic76]

It wasn't the Vietnamese leadership, it was North Vietnam. And they didn't exactly beat the Americans. They didn't force us out of the country, we left under our own accords after achieving a peace treaty of our design. Name one fucking battle the North won against America. It isn't about rather the war was right or wrong. The US military was not defeated in Vietnam. We left when we chose to leave, under our own conditions. Without a single major battlefield loss, inflicting far more casualties than we incurred and basically we had destroyed the NVA by the time we left in 1973, that's why they took two more years before breaking the peace treaty, because it took that long to rebuild their forces. And the only reason the North won is because chicken shit Congress decided to break a promise and contract that was signed and paid for. Creating the myth that the North won. That it was the will of the people. All of these are falsehoods. It isn't about rather we were right or wrong. We were no more wrong than the Soviets and Chinese who were supplying and training, and yes fighting, though that was hushed up the same as in Korea. Soviet pilots, like in Korea did fly combat missions in Vietnam but it was hidden from the US public to avoid a larger war with the Soviets.

As for beating the French in the early 1950s, that is hardly a major accomplishment. The French military was in shambles after the second world war and took over a decade to rebuild itself. And if America did lose, it wasn't because of the Vietnamese leadership (which Vietnam, remember there was two of them). No, it was far closer to home. You can debate rather or not we should have been there, but don't pretend like the Vietnamese wanted the communists to win, especially in the south or that they only reason the south lost is because we broke a contract that was signed and paid for. We stabbed south Vietnam in the back. And there is no justifying that. We made a promise, we failed to deliver that promise. We took an ally, and lied to his face and stabbed him in the back right when he was most desperate and you're celebrating that behavior. South Vietnam lost because ammo we sold them we failed to deliver when they needed. In my book that is despicable behavior. To promise them that if North Vietnam broke the peace agreement we would sell them the means to defend themselves and then instead of trying to negotiate with North Vietnam to establish a more lasting peace, South Vietnam took us at our words. Then we turned around and stabbed them in the back. Sorry, I can't excuse that behavior. Basically, that kind of behavior is a big fuck you to every servicemen who served in Vietnam. When we deliberately betrayed a country we had fought and bled for you basically told all those vets they were dog shit. Unlike Afghanistan, South Vietnam was basically functioning as an independent country when we left. We had trained their military to a state that they could hold their own and even beat the Soviet backed NVA. They were fucking winning. And then Congress decided to break the contract we had made with them. And in the process the North perpetrated the same atrocities that communist countries always conduct after conquering. It is quite likely our involvement was a mistake originally, but what we did to the south Vietnamese in 1975 was an even bigger mistake. Two wrongs don't ever make a right.

[Chumby]

Ho Chi Minh 1
USA 0

Talk about things hidden from the US public? Things like what actually happened at the Gulf of Tonkin, My Lai, the hundreds of fraggings, McNamara’s morons being sent into combat and dying due to not being bright enough to function there, early communication of what milintel, CIA, Rand, etc knew was happening, the massive fraud in the South’s government, the effects of the rainbow defoliants, etc?
Doubling down on a stupid activity is twice as dumb.
Today, the US should be doing more to aid in the removal of UXO still there and help address the dioxin contamination it made when spraying chemicals indiscriminately.

[Bill Dalasio]

I think you're kind of proving my point. Because Nixon and Kissinger didn't immediately and unconditionally withdraw U.S. support and participation in Vietnam - which no U.S. president or administration was going to do in the middle of the Cold War - you can ignore the fact that the war was in full swing when they came into office.

[Dillinger]

free Conor McGregor! Erin go bragh?

[JohnZ]

It's a pity there isn't a hell for him to go to.
Free Conor McGregor! Ireland for the Irish!
Now come and try to arrest me you swine.

[DRM]

Yes, I'm sure the Cambodians were ecstatic that instead of there being limited fighting in the lightly-populated northeast of Cambodia, the US withdrew entirely from Southeast Asia so the Communists could take over and slaughter a third of Cambodia's population.

[DRM]

I mean, yes, Cambodians and Laotians have a quite legitimate beef with Kissinger, but it would be for what he did as Secretary of State, not what he did as National Security Advisor.

[soldiermedic76]

Not that I'm supporting the Domino theory, but it always amazes me how people blame what happened in Southeast Asia entirely (or largely) on the US, while the Soviets and Chicoms never seemed to get blamed. North Vietnam was about as organic as North Korea, Communist Hungary (hell, the Eastern Bloc). The Communist were only popular because they were the most successful in the north at overthrowing the French, but Imperial Japan was largely popular initially too (and really did remain fairly popular in the North, less so in the South). Culturally, North and South Vietnam really were distinct, unlike Korea. And Saigon really was a little Paris, or an Eastern Paris.

[BYODB]

people blame what happened in Southeast Asia entirely (or largely) on the US, while the Soviets and Chicoms never seemed to get blamed.

Probably because certain Americans like to blame America for everything while holding up communist countries as utopia.

That, and the former Soviet Union and China couldn't give less fucks what foreign nationals think about them. They're way too busy crushing the people inside their borders that dare question the narrative of an Evil United States.

At least the United States doesn't line communists up against a wall and shoot them like communist regimes do to their own dissenters. I know at least a few posters here think that's a valid solution, and given what communist sympathizers here in the United States want to do to them it's understandable. At least here in the U.S. it's a private sort of animosity rather than a public stance you must adhere to under punishment from the state.

[DRM]

I mean, if people want to claim that it was wrong of our government to draft Americans and send them to fight for other peoples' freedom, hey, absolutely.

If they want to claim that it was wrong of our government to forcibly seize money from Americans and use it to fight for other peoples' freedom, hey, right again.

If they want to note that all war results in injury to the innocent, hey, they're right a third time.

If they want to note that our allies in the Vietnam War were not all liberal democrats, they're right yet again.

But all that is simply to say that the US involvement in Vietnam was as immoral as our involvement in World War II. And as it happens, our enemies in Vietnam were also as immoral as our enemies in WWII.

And the US bombing North Vietnamese troops who were themselves violating the neutrality of Laos and Cambodia was at least two notches more legitimate than the supposedly neutral US invading neutral Iceland in order to secure it against the Germans five months before Pearl Harbor.

[soldiermedic76]

And unlike Korea, North and South Vietnam really weren't a cohesive culture. There is still marked difference after nearly fifty years of communist rule. Comparing it to Afghanistan is really comparing apples to oranges. There is so many myths believed about Vietnam that simply aren't supported by the actual facts or history. The North Vietnamese were not plucky freedom fighters, they were conquerors of a people who didn't want to live under communism. We left a fairly functional government with a fairly functioning military, that was successfully fighting off the North when the North broke the peace agreement right up until we broke our promise to them. Congress in April of 1975 basically surrendered South Vietnam without their input to the Soviet backed Communists of the North. Basically, if any parallel can be drawn, what we did in 1975 (two years after our combat troops left) was what France and England did to Czechoslovakia in 1939. And from a strategic standpoint South Vietnam was far more important strategically than Ukraine is today. That's one of the reasons we started opening relations with Vietnam in the 1980s, because from a military view, Indochina is very critical in a possible war in the Western Pacific. Especially, when paired with Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. Which is actually why the Japanese invaded it in 1940 (and our protest against their occupation of Indochina was what lead to Pearl Harbor). You want to control movement into and out of the South China Sea, Vietnam (and the Philippines) are vitally important. Its's very similar to why we and Europe haven't told the Turks to fuck themselves.

[Fats of Fury]

Have a Very Unmerry Exmas You will get nothing and better be happy with it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194775987@N02/52581985409/in/dateposted-public/

[Sopater]

Only the good die young.

[Ezra MacVie]

Only the good die young.