Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites
But Patrick Deneen’s “common-good conservatism” almost certainly would be.

A third of the way through Regime Change (Sentinel), a table appears. The top two quadrants are "Progressive Liberal" and "Classical Liberal." The lower left is "Marxist." The lower right is blank.
That open spot will soon be filled by the author's proposed alternative. Like Marxism, he says, his approach is "deeply critical of the resulting alienation of humans from the fruits of their labor, from knowledge of how their work contributed to a common good, and from each other." But unlike Marxism, this system is fundamentally conservative rather than revolutionary, prizing stability, continuity, and order above all. It is economically leftist, socially reactionary, and unapologetically anti-liberal.
Students of history may be relieved to hear that University of Notre Dame political scientist Patrick Deneen is not—despite what the schematic just described might suggest—arguing for fascism. Instead, the fourth quadrant represents what he refers to throughout the book as "common-good conservatism."
Deneen, who taught at Princeton and Georgetown before landing at Notre Dame, is one of the more prominent intellectuals on what is often called the New Right. He's best known for articulating the idea that liberalism—not just the modern political faction but the broad philosophical tradition emphasizing individual liberty, limited government, personal responsibility, and the rule of law—has failed America. An earlier book of his on that subject even appeared on former President Barack Obama's reading list in 2018. Today, along with Harvard Law School professor Adrian Vermeule and a couple of lesser-known academics, he pens the Postliberal Order newsletter, which explores the system they hope will eventually take liberalism's place.
Given Deneen's influence, the incredible sloppiness of the writing in Regime Change is a surprise. Many of his sentences are ambiguous if not incomprehensible, many of his paragraphs internally contradictory. There are places where the literal meaning of the words on the page are precisely opposite to what he plainly intends to convey. (When he says that it was "not uncoincidental" that two related things coincided, I doubt he means they happened together merely by chance.)
Even going to great lengths to puzzle out the strongest versions of the arguments Deneen seems to be making will get the reader only so far. Every one of his major claims disintegrates under scrutiny. You're left with the impression that he barely understands his own ideas, and that he misunderstands entirely the thing he's arguing against.
Deneen's case rests almost entirely on the idea that left-progressive liberalism and classical liberalism, far from representing opposing worldviews, are in fact "identical, monolithic, and eager to deploy power in the name of enforcing individual expressivism." What unites them, he says, is a commitment to unrelenting progress. Classical liberals (including many American conservatives) might emphasize economic dynamism, innovation, and wealth creation, while progressives are focused on liberating people from lifestyle constraints by clearing away what they see as outdated social institutions such as religion and the traditional family. But Deneen thinks these are really two sides of the same coin. Liberalism is progressivism, full stop.
What's more, he argues, upper-class members of the two camps have secretly combined to form a "power elite" or "party of progress," which perpetuates its position by demolishing the legal and social "guardrails" that once allowed regular people to flourish. "Primary [to liberalism] was a belief in self-making," he writes, "demanding a social order that allowed the greatest possible freedom—even liberation—from unchosen commitments."
Somewhere in here, there is arguably a fair critique. Markets really are disruptive, and those disruptions really do have costs. Community ties may be weakened, for instance, when people marry later, have fewer children, and settle at a distance from extended family members and close friends. Most people benefit from a growing economy, but the benefits are never equally disbursed. Dizzying change can be destabilizing.

But Deneen is not satisfied with the suggestion that liberalism has negative side effects; he insists the destruction wrought by liberalism is the point. "Modern thought rests on a core assumption: transformative progress is a key goal of human society," he says. Liberalism "is a revolutionary doctrine that aims at the constant transformation of all aspects of human social organization," he says. Its "aim," he says, is "unceasing instability."
This is a wild claim—not just uncharitable but entirely unsubstantiated in the text. It evinces little familiarity with the theoretical underpinnings of liberalism, which, as the name conveys, gives pride of place to liberty, not progress. And while classical liberals may have a higher degree of tolerance for creative destruction than Deneen does, it's rare to find one who desires social upheaval for its own sake, particularly among the classically liberal conservatives who are Deneen's philosophical rivals.
Just how "identical" and "monolithic" are progressives and classical liberals, anyway? Deneen's own description of the liberal/progressive power elite includes four key characteristics, half of which don't even apply to classical liberalism.
First, he notes that the new elites are "managerial," or members of what is sometimes called the laptop class. Second, he says "this class arose specifically in opposition to…the old aristocracy" and is thus "fiercely opposed both to the principle of hierarchy and the inheritance of status." (This despite being at the top of America's social and economic hierarchy.)
Third, Deneen says elites use tyrannical identity politics to demonstrate their commitment to egalitarian principles without actually having to do anything to help the less well-off. Through claims of subjective harm (think of microaggressions), "the ruling elite seeks to limit and even oppress or extirpate remnants of traditional belief and practice—those especially informing the worldview of the working class—while claiming that these views are those of the oppressors." Imagine how students at a top-ranked college would react to a speaker saying there are only two genders and you'll get the picture.
Finally, he says, "the main locus through which today's elite exercises control" is not the state. It's through centers of cultural production such as academia and Hollywood, as well as through woke corporate governance.
Do either of those last two features sound like they apply at all to classically liberal conservatives and libertarians? Of course not. The power elite described above is obviously not a melding of left- and right-liberalism. This is a garden-variety complaint about left-progressives.
In fact, classical liberals have been on the front lines of the fight against Deneen's third characteristic, which they recognize as a product of illiberal progressivism. Public interest law firms such as the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression defend religious liberty and free speech against militant political correctness. For that matter, libertarians are practically obsessed with eliminating occupational licensing and similar barriers that make it hard for people outside the laptop class to make a living on their own terms.
Another big idea in Regime Change is that different regime types are characterized by the way the people relate to the elites. Marxism, he writes, sees the masses as inherently revolutionary and wants them to have power, overthrowing the bourgeois upper class violently if need be. Technocratic progressivism, on the other hand, sees the people as inherently conservative and wants progress-oriented technocrats to rule over the masses, tyrannically if necessary. Common-good conservatism, Deneen's preferred system, agrees with the progressives that the people are naturally conservative and agrees with the Marxists that the people should be in control.
Or does it? Actually, this is one of the many things about which Deneen can't make up his mind. Initially, he says both Marxism and conservatism favor the people over elites. Later, he admits political movements always "claim to speak in the name of 'the people' against an elite that seeks to oppress and circumvent the popular will" while really empowering an elite to do the governing. But while "Marxist strains sought to deny their reliance upon elites," he writes, conservatism has at least been open about its belief that the people need good elites to support them. Except—wait—one sentence later he reverses himself again, now saying that "conservatives have been generally unwilling to make explicit the claim" that elites are necessary to their vision.
Eventually, Deneen rolls out the concept of a "mixed regime," which for some reason he decides to call a "mixed constitution." This is the goal of common-good conservatism, he says: a system in which the elites don't have to dominate the people and the people don't have to overthrow the elites, because the people and the elites are conveniently aligned. (Assume a harmony of interests, and most of the challenges of governance disappear!)
According to the Greek historian Polybius, ancient Rome had a mixed constitution. Instead of choosing between the rule of one (monarchy), the rule of the few (oligarchy), or the rule of the many (democracy), it combined all three. "The benefits of kingship were manifested in the unitary rule of the emperor," Deneen summarizes, "but the tendency of the monarch to become overbearing and tyrannical was restrained by the political power of the common citizens. They in turn were ennobled by the aristocracy—gathered in the Senate—who in turn were balanced by the other elements of the government." In theory, this "mixing" will produce the sought-after alignment between the people and the elites.
At this point, you may be wondering what distinguishes the modern American regime from what Polybius is describing. After all, we have universal suffrage (rule of the many) paired with a Senate and "expert"-staffed bureaucracy (rule of the few) and a unitary president (rule of one). But if we already have a mixed constitution, to what does this book's titular "regime change" refer?
It seems that a true mixed constitution isn't just a system in which the few and the many share governing responsibilities. A true mixed constitution is one in which the few, like the many, are in wholehearted political agreement with Deneen. "The answer," he writes, "is not the elimination of the elite (as [Karl] Marx once envisioned), but its replacement with a better set of elites"—that is to say, a governing cohort that prioritizes conservative values such as stability and order. "Existing political forms can remain in place," he writes, "as long as a fundamentally different ethos informs those institutions and the personnel who populate key offices and positions."
Deneen wants conservative views to be "the price of admission to elite status itself," with people fearing that "not conforming to the regnant ethos" will disqualify them from positions of power (emphasis his). But those are wishes, not plans. How does one bring about such a "regnant ethos" where it clearly does not exist? The closest he comes to an answer—"the raw assertion of political power by a new generation of political actors inspired by an ethos of common-good conservatism"—raises at least as many questions as it resolves.
Even when he finally turns to policy, Deneen seems oblivious to the distinction between structural reforms that might theoretically help bring about a greater alignment between the people and the elites, on the one hand, and the kinds of ideologically conservative policies that his side would already need to hold power in order to implement.
The book calls, for instance, for dramatically increasing the number of U.S. House districts so each member of Congress represents fewer constituents; for "breaking up" D.C. by moving the federal agencies to other parts of the country; and for switching from primaries to caucuses. These are the sorts of suggestions around which it might be possible to build a transpartisan consensus on good-government grounds, and which might then lead to reduced estrangement between the upper and working classes (although Deneen couldn't be bothered to make those arguments explicit).
But Deneen's agenda also includes socially reactionary ideas ("renewed efforts to enforce a moral media") and half-baked industrial policy ("domestic manufacturing in certain sectors should simply be mandated"). Often, his own means and ends aren't even aligned. At one point, he names as a goal that "university education could be substantially reduced" and then, in the same paragraph, asserts that "vocational schools or tracks ought to be supplemented by required introductory courses in a university-level general education"—a proposal that would force people who want to pursue careers in the trades back into the classroom.
Deneen's arguments frequently fall apart in just this way. Near the end of the book, he makes the case that a hallmark of liberalism is "separation" (e.g., between church and state) while a hallmark of conservatism is "integration." Of course, economic liberalism includes a default commitment to allowing goods and people to flow across borders. Deneen waves this away, writing that "the ultimate logic" of globalization is "disintegration, the weakening and outright elimination of all cultural, geographic, traditional forms of membership," apparently hoping readers won't notice that the barriers to trade and immigration that he supports are ways of keeping us forcibly separated.
The thing Deneen most takes for granted in this book is also the thing his entire argument turns on: an assumption that the American people are ideologically with him, and that their democratic power can thus be used to force "an ennobling" of the elite.
That the masses are with them is also, you'll recall, an assumption of Marxists, who are continuously discovering that they've deluded themselves on that point. Deneen knows as much, writing that "false consciousness among the proletariat about what they should really want and how they should authentically act" forced Marx to turn his hopes "to the cultivation of a revolutionary elite….The people were simply not good enough for the anticipated utopia—and would have to be pressed into its service if they refused to follow the playbook."
Yet the possibility that he too could be wrong about what the public wants does not appear to have occurred to Deneen. He treats as a given that the U.S. is undergoing a political realignment that will pit the liberal party of progress against a much larger conservative party that will be socially traditionalist but economically of the left.
There is indeed some evidence for a partisan realignment based on educational attainment. Much harder to believe is that the new conservative coalition supports anything like what Deneen has in mind. Many observers assumed that Donald Trump's success was a sign that the American working class had rejected economic liberalism, for example, but an Ethics and Public Policy Center survey taken after the 2020 election found that just 35 percent of Trump's own voters thought the United States should reduce foreign trade.
The "Barstool conservative" phenomenon identified by journalist Matthew Walther suggests that Deneen would have trouble building a consensus for his social agenda as well. Yes, people are ticked off about woke overreach by the progressive left. But the idea that most Americans favor a crackdown on pornography or a reintroduction of Sabbath laws or any of Deneen's other post-liberal fantasies is comical.
Interestingly, some of his associates on the New Right accept what Deneen is in denial about. His co-blogger Vermeule has called for a small number of activists, who may represent only "a tiny minority of the population," to reshape the culture from the top down by, say, obtaining positions within the administrative state. "It is a useless exercise to debate whether or not this shaping from above is best understood as coercive," Vermeule has written, "or rather as an appeal to the 'true' underlying preferences of the governed." All that's missing is a reference to false consciousness.
Perhaps Deneen's least defensible claim is that liberalism, like progressivism, is a philosophy that wants the elites to rule over the masses. As if brandishing a trump card, he observes that classical liberals are "suspicious of majoritarian democracy" and supportive of "constitutional constraints" that "insulat[e] the economically successful few from the average and 'querulous' many." Yet he also admits that liberalism developed in opposition to the aristocracy, an arrangement under which the few held all the political and economic power.
Sure, liberals worry about tyranny of the majority. That doesn't mean they favor tyranny of the minority. The liberal throughline is a desire to stop either from dominating the other, a goal liberalism seeks to accomplish by limiting the power of the state through which both groups are tempted to exert control.
Contrary to Deneen's clever schematics, liberalism is not about empowering the few vs. the many; it's about empowering the individual vs. the collective. Classical liberals think people, whatever their station, should get to make as many decisions as possible for themselves. Instead of a government—whether elite-dominated or mass-dominated—imposing its vision of the common good on us, we should all have the freedom to decide what a good life looks like and how best to pursue it.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
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It does appear that the writers here have a paranoia about this form of conservatism that is completely disproportionate to its reach. They would much rather tilt at this paper tiger than seemingly anything else
My feeds and mentions are chockablock with lefties (and a few) British conservatives that have discussed how liberalism has gone completely off the rails, is largely illiberal and is now dominated by elites and elitist thinking. I've never heard of this cat.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the cats I follow are also obscure and have never been heard of... although deep down, I don't believe that because some of them are getting millions-- and in some cases, tens of millions of views on their respective platforms. I've got a 1500 word comment that I can't get around to make on these same subjects, largely about how the left and "liberals" (as we call them here in America) are illiberal and have abandoned reason. You know, the concept after which this magazine is named. I would think-- possibly mistakenly so-- but I would think that Reason would be kicking around inside these circles, you know, asking the same questions, rubbing elbows and engaging in debates. Again, I think that any movement that has seen a very high degree of dissidents (linked above to one of them) might stop and say, "Hmm, there might be something going on here." There has been a seismic shift in the culture that started around 2012, and kicked into high gear around 2015, and Reason has mostly slept through it.
The illiberals still throw the best cocktail parties in NY, CA, and DC. They wouldnt want to be ostracized like Greenwald, Taibbi, etc
Or have an IRS agent show up on their doorsteps. Or have their husbands or wives arrested and detained in an airport.
We all get to choose our own news bubble. You've chosen yours. Others make their own choices.
It's why I hang out at Reason, otherwise I'd have no idea what Ron DeSantis is up to.
Nobody can accuse you of living in a bubble when you have to deal with the libertarians here all day, Jeff.
I've been coming here for a few years now and haven't found but a handful of libertarians. Most of the commenters are diehard conservatives and Trump supporters. Hardly libertarian. If you could clue me in to a few actual libertarians that participate here, I'd appreciate it.
Let me get this straight. You came to a libertarian site and decided most of commenters aren’t libertarian and you think that they’re all alt-right, MAGA conservatives.
Did you ever wonder if the problem was actually with you? That maybe if you’re sitting to the left of Pol Pot everyone might look like a righty?
Let’s do a test. Do you think the following people are alt-right conservatives: Russell Brand, Bret Weinstein, Jimmy Dore, Matt Taibbi, Joe Rogan, Bill Maher, RFK Jr., Bari Weiss, Sam Harris, Heather Heying, Claire Lehmann, Douglas Murray, Maajid Nawaz, Jordan Peterson, Steven Pinker, Dave Rubin, Glenn Greenwald, Elon Musk, Lee Fang, Michael Shellenberger, J. K. Rowling, David Zweig, Alex Berenson and Tulsi Gabbard
Those people haven’t commented here, but I get your point that they are liberals who have also called today’s leftists illiberal. And I agree Reason has not done a good job of focusing on the flaws of the left.
But there are several commenters here who believe the 2020 election really was stolen, not just that there were some irregularities, none of which have solid evidence of making any significant difference. And the Donkeys are trying very hard to expand those, of course.
The core problem may be that KMW and others are based smack dab in the Swamp and are influenced by their emotional arguments.
"But there are several commenters here who believe the 2020 election really was stolen, not just that there were some irregularities"
Yes, I'm one of them. The magnitude of irregularities that occurred don't get easily dismissed with a "just".
"none of which have solid evidence of making any significant difference."
How can there be solid evidence when they refuse to even inquire? And not just refuse to inquire, but actively try to censor, deplatform and punish any voices who ask those questions.
That alone makes the whole thing highly suspect. Particularly when the exact same people had advanced an actual stolen election hoax centering on Russia. A hoax that they knew was a hoax, but still held inquiries and pushed it anyway. Inquiries that they are now refusing to entertain when it's the other side complaining.
A recent poll showed 47% of all voters believe there was election fraud in Nov 2020. And 45% of all voters want a debate on election integrity.
Even the precedent of half the country thinking the election was stolen, is bad.
If you thinks it wasn't stolen, you should be very eager to set this to rest. Have a nationwide audit (audit, not recount) and prove that we're wrong. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, right?
But strangely enough, you guys are dead set against it.
You are not alone.
This section is clearly now an Alt-right hang-out--probably because Reason refuses to moderate anything. When opposed (by actual libertarians) they just yell louder and circle jerk each other.
Thanks, Reason!
Congratulations, you and Ed have joined the ranks of every other retarded motherfucker who calls the commentariat right-wing/conservative whenever they criticize Reason or Democrats.
Funny how you all never seem to notice when any of those same people criticize Republicans….
ObviouslyNotSpam and EdG are both Shrike samefagging his own comments in order to try and create the appearance of some sort of consensus.
I'm one, albeit I am not a Party Man and I am a two-front fighter, with hawkish tendencies towards enemies of Liberty abroad as well as at home.
They have devoted 4-5 features to the creeping evil of “Common Good Conservatism”, an idea that dozens of people are familiar with.
Not a single word on the Biden scandals, the contents of the emails in Hunters laptop, the uncovering of 20 shell corporations to launder payoffs and bank records to date of 1/3 of them showing $10M in money passing thru to the Biden family, and the FBI sitting on hard evidence of foreign bribes for policy
I thought they were on to National Conservatism. This "common good" conservatism is something new to me.
It’s going to destroy the Republic, which has never been in better shape than under Sleepy Joe’s benevolent administration
This “common good” conservatism is something new to me.
So it didn't come up in your roster of Youtube channels to which you subscribe? Huh. Maybe that is a sign that your news bubble isn't telling you the whole truth.
Look at fifty center Soros Bubble Boy over here. His bubble is replete with Proud Boys and Oath Keepers mentions
Libertarianism as a luxury belief commenter? Much the same as many of the 'editors?' Though, 50-centing OSF bubble boy is spot-on for the jackass.
“My feeds and mentions are chockablock with lefties (and a few) British conservatives…”
Maybe you missed this part.
Didn't fit his narrative so he ignored it.
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What do any of the Biden issues you mention have to do with the core purpose of Reason, namely "Free Minds and Free Markets"? Your issues properly belong on a RWNJ website like Gateway Pundit or Red State, not Reason.
I know it’s just a troll question, but do you really think when lifelong government officials and their families are doling out favors for profit, or using government power to provide impediments to people out of their favor it has nothing to do with free markets?
Man, talk about the chilling effect. Write a story about governments meddling in corporate policy, effectively censoring opinions by proxy, and you get a visit from the IRS. Telling corporations what to do is not a free market. Asking international companies for money to provide access to markets is as not-free-market as it gets. I’m sure there are dozens of great article takes about free markets that could be spun were Reason to give a shit.
Point is, they don’t. They all voted for the progressive democrats, and commenters here remind them of who they chose quite regularly.
He was often cited at The American Conservative website. I thought he was reasonably well known amongst conservative thinkers here.
I've never heard mention of him from any of my more conservative friends. But then again I've also never heard any of them mention The American Conservative website, either.
JFC, you might as well have just titled the article “What I think, is true/correct and what other people think is untrue/incorrect because they don’t think what I think.”
How insanely narcissistic and up-your-own-ass devoted to “liberalism” do you have to be to make that statement (the one you actually made)?
Even exceedingly hardcore classical liberals would recognize that the term liberal, or any term, can be co-opted and that such arbitrary ascribing of ‘common-good conservatism’ undermines your own argument that liberalism isn’t or can’t be co-opted by elites.
I mean, hell a more concise, clearly illustrative, and accurate statement would be "Liberalism isn't captured by elites but common-good conservatism will be because fuck you, that's why."
>>Every one of his major claims disintegrates under scrutiny.
this was choice. all of them?
This is a common tendency w/ people who believe their opinions are facts. Slade pushing silly bullshit is no longer a surprise.
Many of his sentences are ambiguous if not incomprehensible, many of his paragraphs internally contradictory. There are places where the literal meaning of the words on the page are precisely opposite to what he plainly intends to convey.
Allow me to take your hand, Ms. Slade, and show you the halls of academia that now inform the daily language in your HR department.
That nonsense is just fine with her.
About the only good of "common good conservatism" is putting that collective terminology in their name, and admitting up front that they hate progress, unlike Progressives, whose every action puts the lie to their name.
But collectivism is collectivism, no matter what new branding they apply. Fuck 'em all.
Progress to what, comrade?
"Modern thought rests on a core assumption: transformative progress is a key goal of human society," he says.
Perhaps that's true. However while one wants this constant transformation to be spontaneous, the other wants it to be designed. And the latter will always cause pain and misery.
When you are right, you are right.
Rarely
Hello,
Liberalism is a political ideology that encompasses a range of beliefs and principles, and it does not inherently advocate for rule by elites. Liberalism, in its classical form, emerged during the Enlightenment as a response to monarchical and authoritarian rule. It emphasizes individual rights, political freedoms, the rule of law, and limited government intervention.
While it is true that certain criticisms have been leveled against liberalism, including the perception that it can be elitist, it is important to distinguish between liberalism as a broad philosophical framework and specific instances where individuals or groups may have distorted its principles for their own benefit.
In its essence, liberalism promotes the idea that all individuals are equal and entitled to certain rights and freedoms, regardless of their social status or background. Liberal democracies, which are built on liberal principles, aim to establish systems of governance that protect individual liberties, provide equal opportunities, and ensure accountability through mechanisms such as free and fair elections and separation of powers.
Moreover, liberalism encourages pluralism, tolerance, and inclusivity. It recognizes the value of diverse perspectives and promotes the protection of minority rights, freedom of expression, and the pursuit of personal happiness and fulfillment.
While some critics argue that liberal systems can lead to the concentration of power in the hands of economic or political elites, this is not an inherent characteristic of liberalism itself. Rather, it reflects the potential challenges and complexities of implementing liberal principles within specific contexts.
In practice, it is crucial to continually evaluate and address potential inequalities or abuses of power within liberal systems to ensure they remain true to their principles. This can involve promoting social justice, providing access to education and healthcare, fostering economic opportunity, and implementing mechanisms that hold elites accountable.
In summary, liberalism as a political ideology does not advocate for rule by elites. It upholds the values of individual rights, freedoms, equality, and the rule of law. Criticisms related to elitism should be distinguished from the core principles of liberalism, which aim to empower individuals and establish just and inclusive societies.
Nice long AI spambot response with one embedded spam link.
"It recognizes the value of diverse perspectives and promotes the protection of minority rights, freedom of expression"
Hahahahahahahahaha good one!
"This can involve promoting social justice, providing [random link to driveway contractor]"
Oh I get it. You're a bot. Almost passed the Turing test. 😉
Yeah, these are still rare but becoming more common. They have learned to put the spam link 2/3 of the way through in the middle of a lot of word salad to wade through.
I'll give this one credit for originality. Hell, it's more readable than Sqrlsy, and whines less than Sarc.
Who knew ChatGPT could be used to provide 'relevant' comments on a thread?
Did ChatGPT ever work at ShopRite, or make hella bank Googling from home?
It would be fucking awesome (and would make a bit of sense) if for the past 30 yrs., Reason has been hard at work on an anti-ChatGPT AI. An AI that can read any text that begins with "Hello," or "Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites But Patrick Deneen’s 'common-good conservatism' almost certainly would be." and immediately knows whether the rest of the text was written by a human and/or has any information of value in it.
It's the AI version of SQRLSY.
It’s more coherent than SQRLSY, Hihn, and Hank combined.
Nah. No references to Tim the Sorcerer or talk about shit-eating. 🙂
The argument is better than Slade's, in that it isn't based on unsupported or poorly supported assertions. I give the win to Megan Brewster -can she/it get a gig as senior editor at reasonmag?
Rule by elites would be a terrible way to run a country.
That's why I'm a Koch / Reason libertarian. We advocate policies (like open borders and a $0.00 / hour minimum wage) that have nowhere near 50% support among all voters, but which are wildly popular with billionaires.
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Bzzzzt! Thank you for playing. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Polybius lived from c. 200 – c. 118 BC, long after the last Roman king, and long before there were any Roman emperors. Daneen had the original error, but Slade accepted it. Did Daneen use ChatGPT to write it, and Slade use ChatGPT to verify it?
There were dictators appointed, temporarily, during times of crisis, during the heyday of the Republic. Caesar just appointed himself permanently
They were elected one-term dictators, not kings, not emperors, not monarchs, all of which imply inheritance.
That’s what I said.
“Temporarily”
However, Gaius Julius Caesar was after Polybius's time. There were others though who anointed themselves a dictator before Julius. Sulla comes to mind.
I finally got to the end. Much ado about nothing; the Daneen and common good conservatism describe here is just dictatorship of the proletariat under a different name.
Of course, being Reason and Stephanie Slade, I wonder how correct this article, what got left out. "Common good conservatism" gives itself away as an elite-guided collective right in its name. Daneen I never heard of before this article, so I'm guessing he's just another marginal kook. Some of the contradictory quotes back that up, but selective quotes can make anyone look bad.
There’s also that guy, the Persian Catholic dude, who was on a podcast and once got published in National Review. They are taking over the country.
I finally got to the end. Much ado about nothing;
If I'd thought of it. I could've told you that. In case I don't think of it in the future: 95-100% of the Reason content between now and Nov. 2024 (and probably well after) that use the word "conservative" is going to be some slightly more elegant linguistic permutation of the Misek meme "Christofascists will destroy democracy." It will almost certainly pluck someone exceedingly obscure's opinion-based musings and conflate them with some doom scenario where a literal Hitler somehow manages to win the nomination and apply them to a degree beyond the original author's intent but closer to the implementation of Reason's sophistry. Occasionally, with some historically inaccurate, if not nonsensical, analogies or comparisons thrown in.
You know the "NatCons will end Western Democracy." narrative isn't going to happen. I know the "NatCons will end Western Democracy." isn't going to happen. Reason, didn't get the message and maybe wouldn't even quit printing articles even if they did.
Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites
Maybe not, but progressivism is rule by elites, and that's what we see from the left today, the Democrats. Rule by people who call themselves "The Science" or whatever. Rule by those who think they know better for us be it climate, where we choose to live, what we eat (eat zee bugs!), if we drive, or how many of us there are. There is no one on the right today who is the totalitarian equivalent of any of those on the left.
EXACTLY. Progressivism has always, from its 19th Centrury inception, been enthralled with fad pseudoScientism, eugenics, and the rule of transnational Elites who come by their divine right thru their “brainpower” and slavish adherence to the New Orthodoxies
And almost by definition modern progressives claim a mandate to rule based on their self-assessed superiority. The fads come and go but the circular superiority-ruler thinking lasts forever.
They may not be "equivalent" yet, but they're certainly headed in that direction.
Reject both.
So, taking a page out of the socialist academic playbook, the reactionaries are starting to write garbage under the guise of intellectual anti-progressivism. This is part and parcel of the political reactionary arm’s counter-punches at the state legislature and Governor levels, finally catching on that they have been losing the culture wars for – I don’t know – maybe the last seven or eight decades or so. So if the left can make up fine-sounding lies to achieve their social agenda goals, why can’t the right use the same tactic to counter with? Truth be damned! Full steam astern!
"Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites"
Fine, fascism and authoritarianism by people portraying themselves as liberals then.
"Liberalism Isn't Ruled by Elites" - People *ahb*-viously superior to those Common-Good Conservatives.
Rather obviously, any rule is rule by elites. We call them "rulers" for a reason.
The question isn't whether we're going to be ruled by elites, the question is what kind of elites we deem fit for the job.
Having seen the best of what liberalism can throw at us, I'm prepared to lend a receptive ear to any and all alternatives. "Illiberal" is the best idea I've heard in a long time!
No, the alternative is not just “rule by a different elite.” Another alternative is “rule by no one.” I am quite competent to rule myself and do not need or want anyone else to tell me what to do. I am also quite content with allowing others to rule themselves, cooperating with me and others whenever they feel it’s in our mutual interest.
Unfortunately not everyone feels this way. People are so inclined to try to force others to do what they want. There's no way that a "rule by no one" actually sticks, instead individuals would seize power and become elites in their little circles, with a cult or captives or the like, and with no government or organization there would be no way to stop them. So people like you who wanted everyone to get to choose their own way would start organizing mutual defense clubs and help out, and someone would step up to a leadership role in that organization, and pretty soon it's back to having an elite. Just a different one again.
The goal may or may not be attainable, but it is the goal we should be striving for. Everything we do should be a move in that direction. As it is we've been going the wrong way.
Do you even state bro?
+1
Hahaha haha.
From the asshole just this morning who was advocating teachers decide what kids are taught, not parents. Fauci defender himself.
Yes, Jeff is as far from an anarchist as one can be.
So, you’re an anarchist, then? Certainly a respectable stand, although not one hugely popular with establishment libertarianism.
You're confusing Classical Liberalism with American Leftism. In turn, this is having an unfortunate negative impact on your understanding of the term "illiberal"...
> Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites
No, but Progressivism is. That what "progressive" means. It's all scientific and modern in its willingness to subjugate humanity to the ruling Elite.
That's why liberals are not progressives, and why American "liberals" haven't been liberal in over half a century. Progressivism infected liberalism back at the start of the 20th century, and almost a century and a quarter later it's completely destroyed the old liberal ideas of freedom and individualism. Liberalism is dead, and both progressives and conservatives cheer at the news.
LOL!! And that explains why liberalism has followed exactly the same path in every country where it's been established, right?
Liberalism was not poisoned by progressivism. Liberalism is the larval form of progressivism.
Like that cute baby alligator you got when you were a kid, it always grows up to be a bathtub sized monstrosity ready to bite off your leg. That's just what it does.
Classical, enlightenment liberalism has little in common with Progressivism. Progressivism is a collectivist perversion of liberalism.
I’m reminded of Spooner’s comment regarding the Constitution and slavery. Either it envisioned it or it was useless to stop it. The point Daneen raises is that classical Enlightenment liberalism provides the moral and political justification for progressivism. As much as we may wish otherwise, liberty was outweighed by equality and fraternity and the notions of the perfectibility of human institutions gave rise to deference to a ideology supportive of elevating those claiming to be able to perfect those institutions.
Agreed, except that the old liberalism isn't dead. It's on life support, but not dead yet.
After all, we have universal suffrage (rule of the many) paired with a Senate and "expert"-staffed bureaucracy (rule of the few) and a unitary president (rule of one).
That's a very Jr. High way of describing our Republic.
'Instead, the fourth quadrant represents what he refers to throughout the book as "common-good conservatism."'
In other words, good ol' Catholic theocracy, i.e. socialism and bible study.
Liberalism Isn't Rule by Elites, but dictatorship is, Liberalism is just the ruse to get to the "Rule by the Elites". It fools stupid people.
It would seem that you have an idiosyncratic definition of "liberalism".
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
Elites lie about being liberal.
But not about how superior they are, right?
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1666562454984220672?t=ju5mcjFIqrzV5IpH3x0_yA&s=19
Indicting Donald Trump under the Espionage Act for Mar-a-Lago documents would be a fully insane abuse of power that it's hard to wrap your head around:
First of all, the Espionage Act is an unconstitutional relic of World War I that was passed in order to criminalize dissent against the war.
Second, it was signed into law decades before President Truman created the modern system of classification/declassification and so makes no reference to whether a document has been deemed classified.
Instead, it makes it a crime to retain documents related to the national defense that could be used to harm the United States, which in the case of Donald Trump is whatever the DOJ and Jack Smith want it to be.
The Espionage Act is also what the U.S. government has spent over a decade trying to extradite and charge Julian Assange under for the crime of reporting things that were leaked to him.
https://twitter.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1666563650423775233?t=9JP2LG1PCl2sIoQFYbNm8w&s=19
Roughly 1 part per billion. They’re crying racism and demanding the prohibition of all fossil fuels over a roughly 1 part per billion discrepancy in NO2 levels in white vs non-white neighborhoods.
I am frigging howling
[Link]
I think the prejudicial* notion that the air is dirtier in some neighborhoods because of race is the more humorous POV.
*Prejudicial in both the sense that they are literally judging against race and in the sense that the entire study's entire construction, methodology, and conclusion doesn't make sense unless you assumed (judged) up front (pre-) that race was going to make a difference.
https://twitter.com/JMichaelWaller/status/1666196069116436503?t=6-PYPZCp5kqOsaRjGtA7ZQ&s=19
SPLC and FBI share a new category of terrorist threat: “antigovernment movement.” (FBI calls it “anti-authority.”)
SPLC conspicuously avoids mention of pedophiles as something that conservatives aggressively oppose, as if it’s covering up for them.
[Link]
So basically Putin, Erdogan, Orban, Duterte have American branch offices
In theFBI, DoJ, and DNC, yes.
Sick burn. If there is an office for authoritarian fuckwits, you'd have a desk. Nobody here is forgetting your calls for denying basic medical care and civil liberties to people who had not received the covid vaccines.
Nor am I denying one thing I ever posted. Course that isn't what your ilk wants to strawman
who reads these books? AFAICT just Reason reviewers, who give their ideas more publicity than they'd've had on their own.
You know who else's book was talked about like that?
To ironman Deenan's argument, studies do indicate that those of higher I.Q. hold anti-statist (fiscally conservative and socially liberal) beliefs. So if how well you score on intelligence tests were all that mattered to your politics, then we would have a tiny technocratic elite forcing things like free-trade and trans rights on a third positionist majority. But, as a trans woman who buys imported products, I would not see that as a bad thing if it were true. But more importantly, it is not true. If I.Q. were all that mattered, then psychiatrists and dermatologists would both vote for the same party. But they do not.
How do you force free-trade? Walk up to people with a gun and say "Buy a Honda Accord or else?"
Without having read the book, it sounds like Deneen borrows (very) heavily from Sam Francis, whose Leviathan and its Enemies, gives what sounds like a more coherent (albeit at 730 pages versus 288 for Regime Change) explanation of the underlying theory. And, as much as I have some major qualms about the underlying agenda, the analysis of liberalism is a lot more accurate than Slade wants to dance around. Liberalism as it's been practiced in the U.S. for the last 140 years has been progressivism. And progressivism is largely the political philosophy of the managerial-technocratic elite. Rothbard's The Progressive Era shows that pretty conclusively. Playing word games around "Classical Liberalism" (as either Deneen and/or Slade seems to do) only masks the emergence of the managerial-technocratic elite to primacy versus the more locally-oriented and particularist bourgeoisie (for whom classical liberalism was a guiding principle). Even the modern right largely made its peace with progressivism in the era of Buckley and the rise of National Review conservatism, as was pointed out in the Betrayal of the American Right (again, Rothbard). Unless you want to go back to the Old Right, you're going to have a hard time reconciling the conservative movement with classical liberal principle. And it's risible, in the pages of Reason, to suggest that the libertarian movement, outside of paleo-libertarianism, doesn't advocate for the abandonment of decentralized centers of authority.
Again, I haven't read Deneen's book. So, I can't really say this with much authority. But, it sounds like it is nearly cribbed from Leviathan and its Enemies. And Francis's argument more than holds up to Slade's potshots.
"Assume a harmony of interests, and most of the challenges of governance disappear!" Well of course if we all agree, then there is no disagreement, but we don't, so this doesn't work as Slade points out. This reminds me of politicians who bemoan "divisiveness" on the part of their opponents. Just agree with them without thinking and the divisiveness you hate so much will go away.
There are elite monied interests that want to seize private property for climate investment futures, nuclear excluded. The word used to describe this political philosophy is up for grabs.
When an economy’s jobs reports are based on bipartisan public/private enterprises, the academic word used for this phenomena is ‘. ‘. ???
Socialism lite? New Jersey? Pick one.
Hey look; more BS propaganda....
Or maybe; There's just those who think Gov-Guns make sh*t.
And there are those who aren't so criminalistically retarded and realize that the only asset of a 'monopoly of Gun-Force' is to ensure Liberty and Justice for *ALL*. Instead of STEALING from those 'icky' people (gang-wars).
This is all cleared up by Harry Jaffa in his exposition of why Strauss was wrong about Locke. There is a whole school of Strauss fans who now admit the serious error that his exoteric/esoteric distinction did in making human rights less obvious. Deneen does not have an awareness of this so he continues to argue that if we just hand things over to the common man, morality will reign. But Lincoln (whom it appears he doen't follow either) would counter : Your way protects slavery
I don't what everyone else is talking about, I thought it was excellent.
https://www.vacuumdoctor.co.uk/