Brickbat: What a Load of Manure

The European Commission has given the Netherlands the OK to begin forced buyouts of some 3,000 farmers, part of the government's efforts to meet European Union nitrogen pollution-reduction goals. Farmers who are bought out will be banned from returning to farming not only in the Netherlands but anywhere in the European Union. The Netherlands is the second-largest global agricultural exporter, and Dutch farmers are some of the most efficient and productive in the world.

Comments

[Adans smith]

They must purge the witches from their mist. All hail Gaia. Even if their economies go to s**t .

[perlmonger]

All of those people in Europe are emitting CO2 with every breath. They should stop! For the planet!

[Jerryskids]

You think you're joking, but that is the real end game. You are the carbon they want to put an end to. Everything they do is designed to make life harder and more miserable - and then they'll offer you a way out a la Canada's assisted suicide laws.

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[Fist of Etiquette]

Farmers who are bought out will be banned from returning to farming not only in the Netherlands but anywhere in the European Union.

How can anyone think there's a hidden agenda here.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

They are not allowed TO SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE

[flag58]

"The Netherlands is the second-largest global agricultural exporter"
Where does this statement come from?

[Davedave]

Same place as the rest of this fantasy. Even the hard right fiction 'newspaper' they've pretended is the source doesn't say any of this stuff.

[mad.casual]

It’s neither hard right nor fiction. It’s actually an eco-nut talking point, the end product of which is the policy we see above. The Netherlands is the second largest exporter of agricultural products the way Whole Foods beats Wal-Mart in grocery sales despite having nearly 1/10th of the stores. They don’t produce more food and feed more people than any other country in the world, they expend the most energy producing top-tier organic greenhouse products that they can charge more for.

The world's largest greenhouses are in The Netherlands. Not because the US or Canada or China or Germany can't build larger, but because they can't effectively seize land and feed people from greenhouses as cheaply as they can feed them from open fields.

[Mother's Lament]

"Same place as the rest of this fantasy."

Imagine being a fifty-center, but one so fucking stupid and shitty at his job that you think that you can gaslight us all just by claiming it isn't happening.

Here is the plan as published by the Dutch government: https://www.tweedekamer.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/coalitieakkoord-2021-2025.pdf

Google translate has a document translator you can run it through to convert it from Dutch to English.

And on the first page here are 42 sources from outfits like the Washington Post, Forbes and the UN, stating that the Netherlands is the world's second largest agricultural exporter. Each article is replete with further cites.

[Davedave]

Yes, notice how that has no resemblance to the warped far right claims of Treason.com's article?

[Mother's Lament]

No, you lying fuck. They're exactly the same as in the article above.

What are you trying to pull?

[Trollificus]

See, Davedavedave, gaslighting only works if
A) You are trading on previously-established credibility and
B) people don't notice you're working without gas OR light.

[Wizard4169]

Far right? I though Reason was written exclusively by leftards. Oh, well, if the comments have to be full of crazy, at least we have more than one flavor of crazy.
Also, when Mother is making more sense than you are, you've positively proven you're an idiot.

[mad.casual]

Imagine being a fifty-center, but one so fucking stupid and shitty at his job that you think that you can gaslight us all just by claiming it isn’t happening.

And by his/their own narrative or talking points no less. "Expensive, bleeding-edge 'sustainable' farming is a hard right conspiracy theory!"

[mad.casual]

The origin of the fact is the University of Wageningen, but it's reported and been generally credible/recognized for nearly a decade. It's also a narrowly-true fact. That is, part of it is metaphorical Dutch Tulips; the rank is by price/value and not by gross tonnage, includes ornamental plants, and is specific to exports. The other parts are actual, no-shit sound or tight-fisted ag-economics on the part of The Netherlands, and the general shittiness of EU economics.

The usual suspects of China, Brazil Canada, Russia, India, etc. produce far more raw tonnage of actual food products, but they also consume a larger fraction rather than export and charge less than the Dutch do for tulips at export.

[Davedave]

It was just a lie. 'Largest' without qualifying 'by value' is a deliberate attempt at deception.

[mad.casual]

It was just a lie.

A reasonable conception but, by the same precepts/conception, less of a lie or deception than pretty much every other part of ESG.

[Mickey Rat]

The wonderful EU, where your government can eminent domain you off your land and then prevent you from pursuing your life's work throughout its domain. Interesting when the career is producing food.

This is government policy over market decisions.

[Wizard4169]

And since people still need food, this just means shifting production somewhere else. Since it's likely that producers there will be less efficient, the end result is greater waste and more emissions. Nothing like virtue signalling via punching yourself in the dick!

[Gozer the Gozarian]

The EU is the new Nazi party.

[Mother's Lament]

The dream of Caesar, Charlemagne, Napoleon and Hitler, finally fulfilled by Brussels bureaucrats.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Central planning agricultural, what could go wrong? asked Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot...

[Longtobefree]

Because, after all, who really needs food?

[Don't look at me!]

Nobody needs 23 kinds of food.

[Trollificus]

"There is no reason anyone would want abundant foodstuffs in their home." --Ken Olson, president, DEC, 1977?

[Wizard4169]

The food will still be produced, but the production will probably be a lot less efficient, meaning higher prices, more waste and a net increase in emissions. This is what happens you prioritize virtue signalling over facts and logic.

[Anomalous]

Success must be punished.

[Brandybuck]

Biden is nostalgic for the 1970s. The EU is nostalgic for the Dark Ages.

[mad.casual]

This is pre-Dark Age, City-State stuff. Latifundia and ager publicus date back, at least, to Roman Empire and contributed, of arguable degree, to its collapse. It, admittedly, comes and goes in national history but greenhouses within the walled/dyked nation of the Netherlands is, IMO, more exemplary of the walled gardens of Rome rather than any part of The Dark Ages.

[Dillinger]

>>The European Commission

sounds like it requires immediate dismantling.

[swillfredo pareto]

Farmers who are bought out will be banned from returning to farming not only in the Netherlands but anywhere in the European Union…Dutch farmers are some of the most efficient and productive in the world.

The United States isn’t in the European Union. How about we tell the hordes of people at the Mexican border who have traveled through multiple countries just to get there, to turn around, and start recruiting Dutch farmers who take the buyout? That will give them a head start on buying a nice plot of land and you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a Dutchman in Wisconsin.

[Ride 'Em]

They only have to cross the channel to Britain. Perhaps a couple could help Clarkson's Farm.

[Rise of the Impedance]

... part of the government's efforts to meet European Union nitrogen pollution-reduction goals

Just wait a fucking minute. Obviously I missed an email. When the hell did nitrogen become a pollutant?

[Rossami]

Nitrogen alone, no. Nitrogen-based fertilizers, yes - and they have been for a long time when they are improperly used.

Just like gasoline is a valuable fuel when it's in your tank but a pollutant when you pour it in the creek, nitrogen-based fertilizers are a boon when absorbed by your crops but a pollutant when you pour so much excess on your field that it gets washed into the local waterways, creating algal blooms, oxygen "dead zones", massive fish kills, etc.

Application of fertilizer in such a way as to minimize runoff has been a requirement for as long as I can remember.

[Rise of the Impedance]

I was being snarky. Run-off can be a problem, but this appears to try to meet their goals by banning all use of fertilizer, proper and improper.

[Wizard4169]

By shifting production to other, less efficient sources, it's likely to lead to a net increase in runoff and other pollution. But the Dutch government and the bureaucrats in Brussels get to feel virtuous, which is what really counts.

[Rossami]

I stand corrected. There actually is a push to eliminate atmospheric NO and NO2 which, yes, are greenhouse gases and yes, are slightly increased by agricultural uses. But it's absolutely insane. Those two gases are several orders of magnitude less prevalent in the atmosphere than CO2 and are not increasing with increased industrialization. They don't even have the weak correlation to temperature trends that CO2 does.

[Four fried chickens and a coke]

Well, that'll fukin' teach em, heh?

[Guy]

I see a future great moment in inintended consequences.

[Wizard4169]

Do consequences really count as unintended if they're reasonably foreseeable?

[Earl Furman]

Why the Dutch farmers and not the farmers in other EU states?

[Wizard4169]

I suspect that the Dutch are merely the first in line.