Debate: Cats Are More Libertarian Than Dogs
Do felines contribute more to human liberty?

Meow.
Affirmative: Jason Russell

Cats don't take orders from anyone.
It's not that cats don't understand human speech or can't be trained. Cats just do what they want. "Cats don't do what you expect them to do," Charlotte de Mouzon, a cat behavior expert at the Université Paris Nanterre, told The New York Times last year. "But if cats don't come when we call them, it may be because they're busy doing something else."
Thus, it should be no surprise the queen of self-interest, Ayn Rand, was a cat owner. She wrote in a letter to Cat Fancy magazine: "I love cats in general and own two….I can demonstrate objectively that cats are a great value" (emphasis in original). She was seemingly referring to pictures she enjoyed in the charter issue of Cat Fancy, just one installment in the centuries of cat art that humans have enjoyed. Today, that enjoyment often takes the form of memes of grumpy cats or videos of cats in silly acts.
Entertainment aside, cats provide economic value. Cats work on farms, ships, and elsewhere to scare off and eat rodents and small creatures—and when their employers desire it and the cats consent, they accept scritches.
Meanwhile, far too many dogs are playing dead and leeching off the public dole. The worst are dogs in government work, like the K-9 cops who will narc on you for a victimless crime such as drug possession. A cute kitten stuck in a tree may mean a call to the fire department, but animal control employees used to be called dogcatchers for a reason. As the number of dog parks grew rapidly in the last decade, the vast majority have taken up public dollars and space that would be better used for human purposes.
When cats work in a government job, they're usually trying to keep government buildings mouse-free—not driven by a sense of public service, but instead by a self-interested desire to catch rodents. Public employee cats are actually saving taxpayer dollars by reducing money spent on pest control.
Cats don't ask the government to build them parks. They hardly ask their owners for any special space either—maybe a nice cat tree, but even the box from the last Amazon delivery will do. Cats find comfort and joy in things humans and other animals have no interest in.
Cats, like libertarians, think for themselves. In the Netflix show The Sandman, one cat says to another, "I'd like to see anyone—prophet, God, or king—persuade 1,000 cats to do anything at the same time." What could possibly be more emblematic of a group of libertarians?
Woof.
Negative: Peter Suderman
To imagine that cats are more libertarian than dogs is to commit a fundamental error by assigning libertarian values to an animal's generalized character and behavior. It may well be true that cats are more independent-minded than dogs, that they follow fewer rules and orders, that they have an anarchic streak. But when determining whether cats or dogs are more libertarian creatures, the behavior of the animal on its own is irrelevant. The libertarian project is the project of human civilization and human liberty. A world with fewer anarchic cats—or even, for that matter, no cats at all—and far greater human freedom would obviously be a far more libertarian world.
The question, then, is whether cats or dogs contribute more to human liberty. Framed that way, the answer is quite clear: Dogs have been agents of choice and freedom for thousands of years. Humanity is happier, safer, more prosperous, and more peaceful because of dogs.
Humans have lived with dogs for nearly 40,000 years. Not only were dogs the first domesticated animals, but some scholars believe they were key to letting our ancestors outcompete and outlast their Neanderthal rivals. In a 2012 essay for American Scientist, the anthropologist Pat Lee Shipman argued that dog domestication gave prehistoric people a critical advantage, helping them hunt, particularly large mammoths, and perhaps assisting with carrying meat back to camp. Ever since, dogs and human beings have evolved together in a mutually beneficial bond: They helped our ancestors kill big game, and now we provide them with food in exchange for companionship.
That dogs are companions is no small matter. Research shows dog owners are less lonely, have fewer mental health issues, and get more exercise. Today's dogs may not help hunters strike down mammoths, but they are clearly good for human physical and mental health.
Unlike cats, dogs exhibit a clear bias toward private property and self-defense. Neighborhoods with more dogs are safer, in part because of people walking the streets with dogs. Dogs are protectors of property, and ownership facilitates a sort of private security network, no police needed.
Dogs also help with human sociability. Anyone who has ever lived on a block with a large number of dogs knows that dog owners get to know each other merely because their dogs want to meet. Dogs are ambassadors and intermediaries; they make the always awkward but important business of getting to know strangers easier. They build trust beyond households and kin networks, which is the key to peaceful civilization, trade, and mass prosperity.
Dogs aren't just our best friends. They are natural allies in the fight for a more libertarian world.
Subscribers have access to Reason's whole May 2023 issue now. These debates and the rest of the issue will be released throughout the month for everyone else. Consider subscribing today!
- Debate: It's Time for a National Divorce
- Debate: Artificial Intelligence Should Be Regulated
- Debate: Democracy Is the Worst Form of Government Except for All the Others
- Debate: To Preserve Individual Liberty, Government Must Affirmatively Intervene in the Culture War
- Debate: The E.U. Was a Mistake
- Debate: The U.S. Should Increase Funding for the Defense of Ukraine
- Debate: Mentally Ill Homeless People Must Be Locked Up for Public Safety
- Debate: Despite the Welfare State, the U.S. Should Open Its Borders
- Debate: Cats Are More Libertarian Than Dogs
- Debate: Make Housing Affordable by Abolishing Growth Boundaries, Not Ending Density Restrictions
- Debate: Bitcoin Is the Future of Free Exchange
- Debate: Be Optimistic About the World
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Cats fucking suck. There is a reason why we refer to them as pussies; and for good reason.
Fuck cats, they suck.
Hitler was a cat.
Counter-argument: Hitler loved dogs.
Per your point:
Poll of fascists who love dogs:
Hitler: Yes.
Fauci: Yes.
Moussilini: No.
Result: 66% of fascists love dogs.
Science!
Fauci: Yes.
Did he though? Or did he just love conducting ethically dubious (to say the least) research on them. And then probably only because research on human test subjects is even more unethical.
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That was the point I linked. ATM rightly pointed out that even in exceedingly well controlled and unbiased polls, one person saying “I love dogs (as companion animals).” isn’t the same as the next person saying, “I love dogs (as test subjects).” as the next person saying, “I love dogs (medium rare with a robust Chianti).”, even if they all get recorded as "dog lover".
Fascinating!
The comment above, and in fact, the entire article, is an excellent example of the worth of space on and electrons dedicated to and the time spent reading the Reason website. Having not read Reason Magazine, I am left to wonder if they are equally concerned about the moving – nay – earthshaking issues of the day. I will venture from having read the article above that the author, not having had a good bowel movement prior to approaching his keyboard, was (1) FOS, and (2) had some spare time on his hands, having not had to waste any time wiping.
I have for the last month or so made it a practice to mute commenters who brag about their their internet incomes and importune the gullible to join them by going to certain websites. It irritates me (since most of them use a feminine or feminine-sounding nom de plume) that none of them ever respond to my question about whether they shave their pubes before their webcam show or if the clean up the kitty on cam (hence the linkage to this article about cats).
Lastly, and in response to the value of space and electrons and time sacrificed to this website, I will add that since I starting my site-grooming process of muting webcammers, something over half of the entries in the comment section now say “Comment hidden because this user is muted.” What a prescient and elegant declaration of the value of the site.
I wonder is this comment gets posted, or killed and stuffed into the memory hole?
Congratulation, you got posted.
The May 2023 issue of Reason magazine is themed as a "debate" issue. It's full of debates. Someone thought it would be humorous to have a silly debate about cats vs. dogs.
How libertarian are sea lions? Asking for jeff and Mike.
I can demonstrate objectively that cats are a great value"
Sure. Just look at all the seizure-alerting cats, cadaver-sniffing cats and guide cats for the blind. Dogs got pressed into the shit job of drug sniffing at the behest of the man.
What, you don't find value in an animal that eats expensive pet food (and only its preferred type) and then shits in a box that you have to clean up?
See my comment about toxoplasmosis.
As the cartoon says, have you ever seen a police cat?
Considering that there's no amount of training that would teach the cat property rights, stop it from killing out of hand (even after being declawed), or disabuse it of it's own primary survival instinct, seems like the main reason there are no police cats because cats have a shitty Union.
In their personal relationships, cats are jerks, while dogs are not.
I do not understand why libertarians want to identify with jerks.
I do not understand why libertarians want to identify with jerks.
Libertarians don't identify with the people in the comments.
I do not think that reply means what you think it means.
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I do not understand why libertarians want to identify with jerks.
Because we want to be around our own kind, obviously. /sarc
No dog ever gave a human toxoplasmosis, and altered their brain to be more compliant.
Case closed.
Hard hitting stuff. Glad to see someone’s willing to tackle the tough, important issues of the day…
>>Do felines contribute more to human liberty?
I fucking love every kitty I've had and all the kitties who aren't mine, but I can take my dogs to Colorado. so no.
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Cats are as libertarian as the Unabomber.
Course dogs think libertarian means the liberty to sniff everyone else's butt.
Dogs are simps. Servants. Betas begging for approval. Not very libertarian.
Cats fit more of the caricature of libertarians as 'each man is an island' than the reality that values voluntary cooperation without coercion.
Neither are very libertarian.
The view of libertarianism offered up here is a pretty juvenile one. Cats expect to be provided for while offering little in the way of recompense beyond an attitude of presumption and superiority. And I say this as someone who owns two cats that I do love dearly. Dogs, on the other hand, are eager and reliable voluntary members of the family community. Their contributions as willing guards and an alarm system (not to mention hunting assistant and companion to the disabled) wildly surpasses that of cats to pest control. Unlike cats, dogs' interaction with human beings isn't the sort of atomistic, transactional relationship that is ripe for totalitarian manipulation and control by an authoritarian state. It's one of genuine affection that forms the sorts of bonds that make serve as a bulwark against the state.
Cats can't be herded into cohesive groups like dogs can. They're obstinate bastards that act in their own self interest.
Thus, cats are more libertarian.
That assumes disagreeableness is a fundamentally libertarian trait. I'm not sure that's true. Sometimes, disagreeableness is simply a demand to be in charge, and not an expression of respect for the liberty of the individual.
If cats were in charge, how much liberty do you think human beings would have?
"Why does the human slave keep stealing my poop with a tiny shovel?"
Cats can’t be herded into cohesive groups like dogs can.
Sure they can, you just need to use more glue.
Really? Ok, I'll play.
Are you ready to rumble? It's a cage match between the 3 Egyptian cat deities, Mafdet, Bastet, & Sekhmet and the 2 dog deities, brothers Anubis & Wepwawet!! Who will get the upper hand and win the libertarian hearts and minds?
Round 1 Anubis vs Bastet!
What? Anubis is too busy protecting the dead. From what? They're dead! And Bastet is taking a cat nap. Oh FFS. It's a draw.
Round 2 is a tag team with Mafded and Sekhmet taking on Wepwawet!
What now? Sekhmet and Wepwawet are off doing plagues and wars and Mafdet is only half cheetah? What's the other half? Mongoose! I suppose that makes sense with all the catching snakes and scorpions. What about the dogs half brother, you know the one with an alligator head? Yeah Sobek, what's he doing? Cruising the Nile, I should have known. This is a disaster.
No, you know what? Forget the whole thing. I'm out.
I wouldn't say any of these beasts or real-life dogs and cats are libertarian. They are all pawns in Egyptian mythology in which Pharoahs are viewed as spawn of the Gods. They were even mummified and buried with the Pharoahs in the chambers of the Pyramids of Egypt to accompany the Pharoahs to the so-called Afterworld.
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IMO, libertarianism is incompatible with slavery, as by definition one can neither surrender nor be robbed of one’s inalienable rights.
Dogs believe in being slaves, so that disqualifies them.
Cats aspire to practice human slavery, so they are even worse.
And, btw, the question “Do felines contribute more to human liberty?” is irrelevant to the debate.
That is not a libertarian position.
Dogs are no more "slaves" than a husband is slave to his wife. Most dogs love their humans, and those that don't will try to get away.
Cats are more libertarian than the Reason staff.
Heck, the average dog walker is more libertarian than Reason staff.
I was looking at the taxonomy. The order carnivora is divided into two suborders, the dog one and the cat one. The cat side of the order contains all the felines, hyenas, and mongeese. That's about it. The dog side has the canines, bears, walruses, seals, otters, skunks, raccoons, weasels, badgers, wolverines and more too. Quite a diverse group of creatures.
Cat fur bothers me. The fact that they kill some 2 billion birds each year bothers me more. It's the subject of an award winning photograph:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/caught-by-cats-birds
The Goat by far is more Libertarian than either dogs or cats. They are, as the old simile says, stubborn animals, even though sociable, much like Libertarians.
Contrary to popular myth, the Goat does not eat tin cans, but only the paper labels off of the tin cans. Thus, the Goat is the natural enemy of bureaucratic paperwork, red tape, and fiat paper currency, the perfect beast for stampeding through a tax office.
😉
Also, the Goat has a ravenous sexual appetite. Where else do you think we get the name Horny Goat Weed? Thus, they are symbols for sexual freedom as well as economic freedom.
The Goat also has cloven hooves, horns, pointed ears, and a long beard from it's chin, and hence it's image has obvious Luciferian, Satanic connotations, and the Goat certainly has the independence and ambition of those legendary beings.
"GOAT" also is the acronym for "Greatest Of All Time," and as a non-sapient Libertarian symbol, it fits that description to a "T.
GOAT FTW!
🙂
To live in the barn and kill mice.
Even this is relatively illusory. You may get the rare cat that has exceptional predatory urges, but by-and-large most cats only suffice to keep rodents out of the open spaces which they traverse, relegating the rodents to rafters, joists, and other places where cats are between oblivious and indifferent to them. Cats are generally not known to eradicate infestations of rodents as much as act as parasites on any given infestation. Maybe, at one point in history a cat or cats was more guaranteed to eradicate mice but the overlap with modern cats that like scratches is dubious and even ancient people understood that grain had to be kept in inaccessible containers (large pots and urns) and/or in raised buildings, and doing so was more reliable/beneficial than cat ownership.
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[Hisses through clenched teeth]
At the same time, just because a Taurus or Hi-Point goes off occasionally doesn't exactly or definitively make them a weapons manufacturer.