Trump's Anti–First Amendment Skylarking Is DeSantis' Anti–First Amendment Action
The former president wanted to "open up" defamation laws. The governor of Florida is about to try.

Standing in front of a large American flag at an event touting civics education "on topics including rights and responsibilities of citizens…and also understanding the philosophical underpinnings of the American republic," Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) made a case for abrogating press freedom.
He supports Florida House Bill 991, DeSantis explained, in its plan to make it easier to sue journalists for defamation, perhaps most controversially by changing the legal status of anonymous sourcing. "If somebody is defamed…if [the journalist is] using anonymous sources, that can be a presumption that that was done with malice," DeSantis said Thursday. "I think what's happened is particularly corporate media outlets have relied on anonymous sources to smear people."
But don't worry, H.B. 991's discouragement of anonymous sourcing isn't "going to cause much of a difference in terms of free speech," DeSantis added. It will merely "cause some people to not want to put out things that are false, that are smearing somebody's reputation."
Of course, it will also cause some people not to want to put out things that are true but unflattering to public figures like DeSantis—or, to point to the obvious case of anonymous sourcing proving correct, President Richard Nixon.
This bill isn't all bad, and there's a fair critique to be made of overreliance on anonymous sources where trivial matters are concerned. But, on balance, this legislation is an attack on the freedom of the press, and its support from DeSantis suggests that on an important constitutional matter, there's not much daylight between him and his presumptive presidential primary rival, former President Donald Trump.
H.B. 991 is in some regards reasonable. For instance, it provides that you don't become a public figure merely by giving an interview to the press; defending yourself "publicly against accusations;" being the subject of a viral video or photo; or holding "public employment other than elected office or appointment by an elected official."
In other words, being a teacher or DMV clerk doesn't make you a public figure. Nor does, say, becoming the "Central Park Karen" or the "ain't nobody got time for that" woman. In a defamation suit, H.B. 991 says that absent some other sort of fame—some willful entrance into public life, like cultivating celebrity or running for office—these people should be treated like private figures who enjoy a stronger standard of reputational protection.
I'm not sure this distinction is right exactly as written. Protection for people who give a man-on-the-street interview or unwillingly become viral memes makes sense, but police officers strike me as public employees who should be treated as public figures because of their unique role, which includes legally protected use of force. Some critics have also argued H.B. 991's delineation could violate Supreme Court precedent. Still, the underlying idea—of specifying what it means to be a public figure in a digital era where sudden, unsought notoriety is possible in a way it wasn't in the very recent past—seems fair.
It's also fair to say that sometimes the media goes overboard with anonymous sourcing. I've thought this myself, especially during the Trump administration, when comments from unnamed "people close to the president" were regularly the basis of high-profile but objectively low-stakes coverage of White House personal drama which mostly told us what we already knew: that Trump was petty, deceptive, and ill-equipped for his office. A story doesn't have to rise to the significance of Watergate to justify reliance on sources who won't consent to be named, but that hardly means every snippet of anonymous gossip deserves publication.
And yet, as ever where basic individual rights are concerned, there is—or should be—a yawning gap between this is a dumb or imprudent or risky way to exercise that right and we should make this functionally illegal, which is what H.B. 991 very nearly does with anonymous sourcing.
That's not the only problem with the bill, either. Its provision that an "allegation that the plaintiff has discriminated against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity" is automatically enough for a defamation suit is similarly troubling for its likely effects on free speech.
So is its mention of "any one presentation to an audience" or "utterance on the Internet" as bases for defamation cases. As a New York Times editorial notes, that could mean, respectively, "statements made at school board hearings and other public meetings" or "a tweet or a Facebook post written by anyone." It's not as bad as the United Kingdom's prosecutions for "grossly offensive" tweets, but it's a move in that direction of chilling public speech.
It's a move, too, in the direction Trump wants to go. "One of the things I'm going to do if I win," he said in 2016, "I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money."
This was always a fantasy, because the relevant legislation, like H.B. 991 itself, is overwhelmingly set at the state level and therefore isn't under the president's purview. But the animosity undergirding the threat, and Trump's ability as president to curtail press freedom using tools also employed under the Obama and Biden administrations, is quite real.
That animosity is apparently something DeSantis shares. If elected president, he may well reach for the same anti-press tools of surveillance and suppression of dissent. And in the meantime, as a governor, he might well "open up" Florida's defamation laws, doing in real life what Trump only imagined.
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https://reason.com/2022/09/27/for-florida-gov-ron-desantis-political-stunts-are-more-important-than-substance/ and
https://reason.com/2022/09/21/are-ron-desantis-migrant-flights-legal/
Ass POTUS, DeSatan will be forcing USA taxpayers to trick and ferry billions upon brazilians of sub-Brazilians from Brazil to Botswana, and to deport illegal sub-Martians from Mars to Uranus! Ass long ass the illegal Martians SUFFER-SUFFER-SUFFER, red-meat-hungry socons and troglodytes will be DELIGHTED to spend those extra tax dollars! Butt I for one think that illegal Martians are intelligent beings, too, and hope that they will NOT suffer on Uranus, from too many foul odors, etc.!
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For DeSatan tells me so,
Little ones to GAWD belong,
We are weak, but GAWD is strong!
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DeSatan loves me, yes indeed,
Makes the illegal sub-humans bleed,
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I LOVE to pay taxes, till my wallet squeaks!
PUNISH Disney, I’ll PAY for their pains,
Ass long ass DeSatan Blesses our gains!
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The taxes we shall pay? Through the money, we must BLOW!
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#MeInTheAss’CauseI’maGullibleLowBrowBlowHardConTard
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Ain't nobody got time to read all that.
PLEASE be sure to keep everyone posted on your lack of time to read stuff!!! Millions await your next such post, with bated breath!
I take it you haven't fucked yourself with Tim's magic wand yet today, spastic twit.
To the tune of "America the Beautiful"
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He rules across the land,
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He silences their cries,
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For sending the aliens offshore,
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Our taxes for His righteous way,
To export the "low-lifes",
To far-off planets and strife,
DeSatanism shall never sway!
#MeInTheAss’CauseI’maGullibleLowBrowBlowHardConTard
#BeenTrumpledUnderfootForFarTooLong
Apparently he has, ITL. He took it all from the sounds of it.
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I'm also not going to read it, especially since it appears to one of your mindless copypastas.
Yes! The more people that do NOT read it, the more that the content is disproved! Y'all have now disproved the contents of 99.9999% of the entire contents of the internet, by NOT reading it! Soon, ye shall be 100% omnisciently ignorant!
How the fuck are we supposed to disprove gibberish and name-calling?
https://reason.com/2022/09/27/for-florida-gov-ron-desantis-political-stunts-are-more-important-than-substance/ and
https://reason.com/2022/09/21/are-ron-desantis-migrant-flights-legal/
Grow a brain, and GROW UP, would be a good place to start if You want to Perfectly refute ANYTHING! (Else maybe DeSatan will forcibly deport you from Canuckistanistanistanistanistan to Libya or to Uranus, to make SURE that You don't try to crash Paradise here in the USA!)
Hey Mammary-Fuhrer! Go back to Uranus, where You came from! Crawl back up there where the sun don't shine! DeSatan said so, so You GO, Girl!
I know you're in a psych ward and on medication and shit, but it's still amazing for a senior citizen to talk like a six-year-old.
Tim the Enchanter? So glad to have that shit eating faggot muted.
Ask, and ye shall receive wisdom! Knock, and the door shall be opened for ye!
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:
Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Thank You! -Reason Staff
Instead of Timbits, you seem to have Timshits for breakfast.
And no one owes the spastic asshole more than a notice that the spastic asshole is a spastic asshole and should fuck off and die.
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I really think your mother and father were brother and sister. You are nuttier than squirrel shit! Why don't stop posting for a few months and give yourself a chance to heal, and everybody here a fucking break you whacko.
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Put on a Happy-Baby smile, for a LITTLE while!
Fend OFF my tears-of-the-Great-Crocodile!
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It's called the heckler's veto. Sqrlsy shitposts to try and interrupt any conversation that insults his tribe.
Mute me, Mutha Humper! Or don't Ye know how?
(Then I'll be able to slam you ALL day EVERY day, and You won't talk back!!!! And I'll correct all Your Perfect Lies, unmolested!!!! BWA-Ha-HAAAA!!! Delicious!!!)
I like pissing you off too much to mute you, shithead. Your tears are my happiness.
It's especially noticeable when he makes posts like the one right above, with double spaces between each line.
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Ah, a low IQ voter. Trump loves you, enjoy his second term!
^nuts^
He was better than most governors on covid response and isn't an insane leftist. I'm sure there are lots of things I don't like about him, but at the moment I think those are the things that matter most in a candidate for office.
^ this. 100x times.
I'll take a little over-zealous protect-the-children maneuvering over the fucking communists any day.
I’ll take a little over-zealous protect-the-children maneuvering over the kiddie-fucking communists any day.
Whether literal, metaphor by way of whimsically foisting the kids' education back on the parents, metaphor by lending them bags of cash to earn Troon Studies degrees under the promise the degrees will pay off, or all of the above; FIFY.
But, Orange State Man Bad!
Are journalists an extra special class of people?
Also new files show Bidens WH trying to censor peer to peer messaging apps. I’ll worry more about that than cry for a government influenced set of journalists.
By the way, what was Reasons tone regarding the Dominion suit again?
You don't understand, Jesse. That's different because orangemanbad.
Ask, and ye shall receive wisdom! Knock, and the doors will be opened wide for ye! The pearls will yea verily be cast even unto the swine! Now it is up to YE, having been led to the water, whether ye will DRINK deeply, or if ye will just horse around!
Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!
We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!
See The Atlantic article https://feedreader.com/observe/theatlantic.com/politics%252Farchive%252F2016%252F10%252Fdonald-trump-scandals%252F474726%252F%253Futm_source%253Dfeed/+view
“The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet” or this one…
https://reason.com/2019/09/02/republicans-choose-trumpism-over-property-rights-and-the-rule-of-law/
He pussy-grab His creditors in 6 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!
All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!
Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!
Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!
We CAN grab all the pussy, all the time, and NONE will be smart enough to EVER grab our pussies right back!
These voters simply cannot or will not recognize the central illusion of politics… You can pussy-grab all of the people some of the time, and you can pussy-grab some of the people all of the time, but you cannot pussy-grab all of the people all of the time! Sooner or later, karma catches up, and the others will pussy-grab you right back!
Orangemanbad Shillsy, orangemanbad.
Fvck no. New York Times v Sullivan was an awful SCOTUS decision, not part of the Constitution
And to make matters worse, Bonnie’s lefty journal boos now claim anyone they wrote about is a Public Figure, because they are in the news! So they can make up all kinds of defamatory shit about Nick Sandman, George Zimmerman, Kyle Rittenhouse, etc with no comsequences
Using an anonymous source is an indication of political intent and/or lying. (read malice)
There is nothing sacred about "the press"; they are citizens no better or worse than the rest of us. In no free society should they have any special privilege at all.
If you can't cite multiple named, reliable, verifiable sources, don't 'report' the story.
So, then, "Longtobefree", what is YOUR real name and address?
Look up "Silence Dogood" so as to see that anonymity has a LONG and respected history in our now-supposedly-"free" nation!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silence_Dogood
You know that’s not the same thing right?
So DesigNate, if anonymity isn't the same thing ass what it is... Then when ya gonna DesigNate to us, what your real name and address is? So that cowards the likes of Nadless Nardless the Nasty NAZI can perhaps come and fire-bomb your house in the middle of the night? Are you afraid of the chickenshits that might come home to roost? Rile people up, for no good reason, and then the riled-up people come after YOU? Ever study up on the French Revolution, and what happened to Maximilien Robespierre? See https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/robespierre-overthrown-in-france
I’m not a “source” for a journalist writing defamatory shit about a “public figure”.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
A nameless bum (he wouldn't give me his name) tried to KILL me under the bridge! AND also hatefully called me a "dirty libertarian"! Am I NOT allowed to report that to the local paper? Or to the cops, either?
Are you sure that "nameless bum" wasn't the one you were propositioning?
SQRLSY raped a hobo?
DeSatan tis of Thee,
Sweet Man of tyranny!
From every mountainside,
You can smell Him for free!
DeLand where de eagles glide!
DeLand where de illegals hide!
DeSatan, tis of Thee I sing,
To the liberals, tears You bring!
You make the proggies cry!
Talk with THEM?! Don’t even try!
DeSatan, tis of Thee I praise!
For the woke, Holy Hell You raise!
Illegal Martians? Low-life scum, You catch and send,
To Uranus with them! Ignore tax dollars You spend!
We must punish ALL, who to USA might sail,
At ALL costs, DeSatanism MUST prevail!
#MeInTheAss’CauseI’maGullibleLowBrowBlowHardConTard
#BeenTrumpledUnderfootForFarTooLong
Hobo stopped shitting in his mouth, and he was still hungry. Hobo had it coming.
"SQRLSY raped a hobo?"
More than one I'm sure.
Even my fellow CHUDs live in dread of encountering this SQRLSY creatures.
Like cops using a C.I. for search warrants, arrest warrants? Careful what you wish for, eventually you may be arrested for criticism of our "dear leader" Anonymity is there to protect you from reprisal.
I have no problems with anonymity. But police do, occasionally, have to generate actual evidence. Reporters can claim an anonymous source said it and never provide any evidence of what they said even being true.
If I cannot use anonymous sources to defame people, neither should they.
Yes, cops should have to show who gave them the tip/information. They should also have to disclose whatever deal was offered for that information before the warrant is issued.
It seems like a nameless source is what you START with. You don't just run with what they're saying and print it as truth, you let them point you in the right direction if there's a story worth writing. If you can't get anything beyond an uncorroborated nameless source (or several nameless sources who will only corroborate each other off the record) then maybe you just need to do a little more work before reporting.
You win the prize for first with the correct take
The "nameless source" post 2014 is more often than not a character made up as a thin veil for completely fictional slander/libel.
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Sullivan is an invention of the court not the first amendment.
The right for the press to be free is in the same sentence as the right of the people to have free speech.
Any restriction on the latter - slander or libel - should also apply to the former, in the same manner applied.
Special protection for the press is anti-Constitutional, and any Supreme Court justice, that said differently should be impeached.
https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1639368931818307585?t=jr5QknzCIHvbwaEhNp0Y-w&s=19
Putin and Xi signed an agreement this week to forge a new alliance
Trudeau met Biden and gave him chocolate made by Syrian refugees
[Video]
Trudeau met Biden and gave him chocolate made by Syrian refugees
The wrapper said "PEACE" on it... I'm sure that'll fix all the world's problems.
I'm picturing a couple of yoga chicks with BLM stickers on their electric cars their husband's paid for exchanging platitudes about how to make the world a better place.
Those two muppets never do a single thing that isn't posturing and theatre.
Putin and Xi signed an agreement this week to forge a new alliance
And, again, after Biden slow-walked an offer to sell more F-16s to NATO-member-nation Turkey after they bought several SAM systems off Russia (and got sanctioned), Turkey was forced to choose between Russia and China for its jet fighter needs before settling on China.
If you can't smell WWIII cooking, better get yourself tested for TDS because you've gone nose blind.
Not sure why Turkey is still in NATO? I guess it made sense during the Cold War because of their important strategic location (he who controls the Dardanelles controls the Black Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean and Russia doesn't have very many warm water ports). But they have never exactly been a western democracy. Been in a hot and cold war with a founding member of NATO for two centuries. Are barely in Europe. Have actively regressed towards a theocracy (which they've been for most of their history). Have never proven to be a reliable ally, and often proven to be a detriment to their strategic partners. They're a basket case economically (even compared to modern Greece and Italy, and this is their base state and has been ever since the breached the walls of Constantinople, despite controlling one of the worlds most important and lucrative waterways and being at the hub of Eurasian trade routes dating back millennia). Maybe it's so all the old European companies can move their manufacturing their and pay the workers far less while pretending at home to care about social justice, especially the old weapons manufacturers (check out where CZ, Benelli, Beretta etc makes most of their arms these days, it isn't Europe).
NATO is a traitorous villain.
Maybe it’s so all the old European companies can move their manufacturing their and pay the workers far less while pretending at home to care about social justice, especially the old weapons manufacturers (check out where CZ, Benelli, Beretta etc makes most of their arms these days, it isn’t Europe).
You mean my Canik wasn't made in Canada?
"Not sure why Turkey is still in NATO? I guess it made sense during the Cold War because of their important strategic location (he who controls the Dardanelles controls the Black Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean and Russia doesn’t have very many warm water ports)."
Basically. They are in a strategically useful location, so we have to deal with their nonsense. I'd say NATO, but let's be real, it's the USA and the pygmies of Europe.
https://twitter.com/RadioGenova/status/1639187461577363456?t=MkzE_4XYE_BDYUtm5bfYSw&s=19
Macron while asking for sacrifices from the French people realizes he is wearing a € 80,000 watch and like a magician makes it disappear under the table. Unworthy.
[Video]
What a piece of shit.
Moronic take.
The purpose of the "public figure" distinction, under defamation law, is to distinguish between issues and subjects where there is a First Amendment-protected, free-speech interest in protecting a free, open, and lively public discourse, and other issues and subjects that are really just petty disputes between private parties. The test for whether a county clerk becomes a "public figure" shouldn't turn on the significance of their position; it should turn on the significance of whatever story they find themselves caught up in.
And using defamation law to try to restrict or regulate anonymous sourcing is... bizarre. That is the sort of thing that should be addressed, if anywhere, in the context of evidentiary privilege - i.e., whether a journalist can be required to disclose the source, in connection with some separate matter. So if you're suing for defamation or investigating a leak - that's where we should be asking the question of whether a journalist can be compelled to provide their sources. Some kind of presumption in defamation law that an anonymous source is known to be suspect is just... not how any of this works, and would be enormously harmful for the public's right to know.
For crying out loud, Reason editors, you of all people should understand what laws like this could do to your coverage. You might think you're safe because you don't do original reporting, but any hook that grabs the real media outlets is going to catch this motley crew of J-school drop outs. It'll just take pissing off the wrong deep-pocketed leftist.
The reason journos are not all that bright.
Smart enough to try and gaslight us... Not smart enough to do it successfully, but smart enough to try.
SimonP 7 hours ago
"Moronic take..."
Fucking steaming pile of lefty shit heard from
Eat shit and die, asshole. Make the world a better place.
It must drive you nuts that, while I could safely mute you, because you'll never respond in a substantive way, your comments have so little effect on me that I'm also perfectly fine seeing them and paying them no mind.
to point to the obvious case of anonymous sourcing proving correct, President Richard Nixon
Oh, Jesus.
Alternate history journalism: An anonymous source within the Nazi Regime was proved correct after Hitler ceased the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
Nixon resigned, he was never impeached or convicted. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern didn’t lead the criminal investigation into The Watergate break in and any direct evidence provided from Mark Felt, sorry, Deep Throat was inadmissible because he didn’t come forward at the time. So, “proved correct” is a stretch.
Further, Felt was an FBI agent. The same FBI that has been spying on American citizens, including political candidates and social organizers like MLK, under COINTELPRO, since Hoover (and, more recently, multiply demonstrated to be entrapping people by concocting political assassination plots). Felt himself was *convicted* of illegally violating the rights of several Weather Underground members by breaking into their homes.
None of which is to say that Nixon was innocent or that Felt was wrong. But if you mediatards can move past your hero-worship for a moment, just slightly, you’ll see factual history for what it is and that Felt, Woodward, and Bernstein are not the liberty-saving, anonymous source whistleblowers you’ve been sold.
Was Rolling Stone being successfully sued for spreading false rape accusations bad for a free press? Was CNN being successfully sued by the Covington Kids for defaming them bad for free speech? There seems to be a growing lack of self-policing for professional ethics by the journalism profession. Exposing them more to civil lawsuits is a way to correct that problem. Kind of like the argument against qualified immunity for police.
And the fact that we got or have gotten to the point that obviously false rape accusations occurred and #believeallwomen was still trumpeted resoundingly, that the Covington Kids instigated or did anything aggressive, and that a large portion of the media consuming populace thinks Kyle Rittenhouse shot 3 black people, (to say nothing of Russiagate, COVID, Hunter Biden/The Twitter Files...) indicates the time for self-correction is long past.
And, if that wasn't a signal, Reason et al.'s continued water-carrying for even the FBI couldn't be more obvious handwriting on the wall.
Another Communist propaganda author declares that holding her accountable for what she writes is somehow “a violation of her rights!”
Pure spew. Your tears are delicious!
What're the other 49 governors up to today?
Mostly not being a threat to Biden - - - - - - - - - - - -
*It's also fair to say that sometimes the media goes overboard with anonymous sourcing."
Yes, they *sometimes* go overboard with anonymous sourcing, like for an entire presidency.
The media rampantly abused anonymous sources throughout the entire Trump presidency, and it was hardly limited to "high-profile but objectively low-stakes coverage of White House personal drama." As I recall, the Afghan bounty story was based entirely on anonymous sources, as were many others. How often were "sources close to the investigation," or "someone with knowledge of the matter" quoted in every negative story about Trump (which was every story about Trump).
You guys did this to yourselves when you vacated your integrity and professional ethics for the #resistance.
And, lest it be presumed to be all about Trump, again the James Damore case. It's not at all clear where he violated company policy, especially given arbitration as the result of a lawsuit. Several former Google staffers even claim discrimination and termination as a result of their opposition to the policy, which would *suggest* conformance on Damore's part. What is clear is that someone distinctly did violate company policy by handing internal company memos to Gizmodo and, yet, that person, presumably, continues working in complete anonymity.
SCOTUS decisions and tax returns are leaked by "anonymous sources" then published...
At least that information is factual, I guess.
Who was the "Anonymous high ranking official" that ended up being some low-level flunkie nobody had ever heard of under Trump?
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Once again, dammit:
1) Truth is an absolute defense against defamation.
2) If you're sued, you can engage in discovery against the person suing you, acquiring the plaintiff's records and compelling testimony from the plaintiff and his associates that touch on the matter.
So the only time where this would chill the use of anonymous sources by a reporter is when the reporter is not confident that the anonymous source's claims are provable. If they are provable, he'll fully expect that discovery will extract the proof from a plaintiff stupid enough to sue.
And if the reporter is not confident the anonymous source's claims are provable, he damn well should be chilled from repeating them.
Well put
Freedom of speech and freedom of the press isn't a carte blanche to be free from repercussions. The law doesn't say you can't print anonymous sources but you could be sued for it. All the defense you need is if the sources prove correct. But the problem is the press almost never does a deeper dive anymore. They quote a source, anonymously, that suits their spin and then hide behind the source being anonymous when the story turns out to be false. Maybe this law is overbroad, but let's not pretend that being sued when you print dubious material is an attack on freedom of speech or press. The unintended consequences of case law such as Sullivan and the overly protective of the press libel laws have created a serious problem that has destroyed the idea that the press is a check on the government. It's removed the incentive for due diligence by reporters because it's largely removed any disincentive to print base rumors without any evidence. I will defend your right to say and print whatever you want without government interference but I also support your right to be sued due to you printing falsehoods due to actual malice or negligence on your behalf. Because no other profession is protected from being sued for malice or negligence. Harming someone's reputation publicly is a violation of the NAP. You want to remedy the problem of nuisance lawsuits, enact loser pay. Or fully differentiate between opinion and hard news. Which used to be the job of the editors (largely to avoid libel lawsuits). And plainly state that a rumor is a rumor that you have not been able to substantiate. And make it plain that that is the case. Go ahead print rumors, but also be prepared to defend yourself if those rumors prove to be false. The 1A was meant to protect your rights from the government not from your own actions.
I will defend your right to say and print whatever you want without government interference but I also support your right to be sued due to you printing falsehoods due to actual malice or negligence on your behalf. Because no other profession is protected from being sued for malice or negligence.
I and I think many libertarians would even go one step further in this regard, not only will we just defend your right to speak, we'll defend your and everyone else's right, in turn, from being sued frivolously; English Rule. Because if there's any group of people that has demonstrated a rampant lack of consequence and disregard for truth more thoroughly and consistently, it's fabulist litigators.
Just as it's not fair that you bring false claims without consequence in public, it's as, if not more, important that people not bring false claims in court. It's part of this problem of turning the tiniest of soap boxes into the largest of public squares. The idea of being able to file lawsuits, risk-free, empowering the poor, downtrodden, tired, huddled masses to overcome their oppressors has clearly stopped working, if it ever worked in the first place.
Perhaps "loser pays" if there's a specific ruling of frivolity? Earnest litigators shouldn't face ruin just for suing deep pockets. But a frivolous one should.
The English Rule, as actually implemented in the legal system of Alaska and every major Western non-US country, does not ruin earnest litigants just for suing deep pockets.
I'm not familiar with the English Rule but I did a quick read and it's very similar to loser pays. I would make the losers pay both court costs and attorney fees.
Loser pays:English Rule::elevator:lift
A bit inverse of the "In Brazil, they're just called nuts." notion.
I would make the losers pay both court costs and attorney fees.
And, actually, here’s the part where I agree, more, with the FF on “American Rule” in spirit because I feel while the attorney’s fees are private and demanded by the court/suit as a “taking” needing remuneration, the court fees are public. Raise the court fees, even if you split them, and you get back to a situation where the largest corporations, wealthiest citizens, and those with access to pockets more than $30T deep can afford to sue for redress of grievances and no one else can.
^^^^Exactly.
> Because no other profession is protected from being sued for malice or negligence.
Cops.
CI is a different kettle of fish. Technically you can be sued as a cop for negligence and malice and many are successfully every year. Reason likes to write about the most egregious cases of CI overreach, and I'm not criticizing since CI isn't a good rule, but these tend to be the exception not the rule. There's also a reason they tend to be from big cities with rich unions, thus high powered attorneys who successfully twist CI.
Pretty amazing all the things Reason writers can find to bash Trump and DeSantis everyday when Potato Joe is in office and ten times worse than either one of them. Almost makes you thin Reason writers are partisan woke liberals! I guess Potato Joe is the best President ever upholding the Constitution and Bill of Rights, promoting freedom and liberty, keeping the country safe, keeping us out of wars and downsizing the Government like all libertarians prefer. (Well at least in their minds)
A better take:
https://anncoulter.com/2023/03/22/heavy-d-dont-tweet-he-acts/
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Nothing Ann Coulter does is "a better take" lmfao. She's a racist skeletal purveyor of lies and has been for decades
So apparently unless modern journalists are allowed to lie without consequence there is no way they could be possibly do their jobs as mouthpieces for the left. How else am I supposed to see this you marxis ignoramus.
Hilarious. The implicit assumption through most of these comments is that Team Red is well-intentioned but perhaps a little misguided. What if - and hear me out here - they are not all that well-intentioned? What if the ultimate goal of this strategy, to weaken NYT vs. Sullivan and make it easier for politicians to sue for defamation, isn't about protecting the integrity of one's reputation, but about enforcing a government narrative on the press via the courts? That is, a media outlet publishing a story critical of DeSantis, or any politician, would then be subject to lawsuits alleging defamation based on whatever whim the politician believed was defamatory. So media outlets would think twice about publishing stories critical of the regime in charge otherwise they would be bankrupted by lawsuits funded by endless amounts of taxpayer money. It's a way to weaponize defamation lawsuits to silence dissent.
Crazy conspiracy theory? Or, is it history repeating itself? Because this is exactly what many Southern state governments did pre-Sullivan against media outlets publishing articles critical of their civil rights records.
But don't take my word for it, here is FIRE's stand on the importance of NYT vs. Sullivan.
https://www.thefire.org/news/why-new-york-times-v-sullivan-matters-more-ever
Truth is an absolute defense against a defamation suit. Would that change?
And the media (yes this includes Fox) ALREADY pushes the government’s narrative.
Well, then they can defend themselves in court. And progressives can use the same laws to go after Fox News: let's test their claims that Fox "lies" in a court of law. I view all of that as positive.
After all, when Hillary went after Citizens United, that's what CU had to do as well.
There should be uniform standards for defamation; no special exceptions for "politicians", "public persons", or "journalists".
Truth should remain a defense.
The whole bill is an attack on the Constitution and it's part of Republican attempts to use the court system to get around Constitutional protections to criticize government. Desantis is a pussy who can't take criticism; it all boils down to that.
More ignorance and left-wing shilling from Reason. Reason and its hack writers once again ignore the real problems of government enforced covid censorship, instead they write about fake problems. Defamation is common law, which existed prior to the 1st Amendment. Even the new Restatement of Torts endorses the current view by DeSantis. If you don't know what the Restatements of Tort is, then you should not be commenting or writing about constitutional law.
When did Reason become a left-wing rag?!
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