No, Vivek Ramaswamy, 'Political Expression' Shouldn't Be a 'Civil Right'
There can be no freedom of association without the freedom to disassociate from views you find erroneous, dangerous, or repulsive.

Shortly after announcing his candidacy for president on Tuesday, the biotech founder and anti-woke crusader Vivek Ramaswamy tweeted a short list of his goals. Alongside such items as imposing term limits on federal bureaucrats and achieving "total Independence from China" was one that might look unobjectionable but deserves a thorough rebuke: "Make political expression a civil right."
The precise choice of language and larger context here are critical: Ramaswamy isn't saying he wants to stop the government from punishing citizens for their political views, something that is obviously already proscribed by the First Amendment (and something that certain anti-woke Republicans have themselves flirted with recently despite the crystal-clear constitutional prohibition). Instead, "civil rights" is a reference to laws such as the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which reach into civil society and constrain what private organizations, such as clubs and businesses, may do.
In essence, Ramaswamy is suggesting that the government treat political opinions the same way it treats race, which under federal law is a protected class. Employers may not make hiring and firing decisions on the basis of skin color; same goes for landlords deciding whom to rent to, hotel or restaurant owners turning away customers, and so on.
To treat viewpoints in the same way would amount to an egregious infringement on the right of free association—that is, our ability to join together with others who share our values or beliefs for a common purpose. Churches, charities, social clubs, and yes, even political entities such as advocacy organizations are all examples.
A healthy, pluralistic society is one that has space for all manner of social institutions, many of which we may not individually be fans of. Some (though by no means all) will be based upon mutual affinities that might be described as political. Inconvenient as it may be for those who desire to end all discrimination, though, there can be no association without disassociation. The right not to be affiliated with views we find erroneous, dangerous, or repulsive is no less worth defending than is the right to speak our minds.
Ask yourself whether a pro-life group should be required by law to accept a job candidate who loudly espouses a right to abortion. How about the reverse? Should an environmentalist nonprofit have to admit members who deny the existence of climate change? Should the libertarian club on campus be compelled to take those who want a larger welfare state and more aggressive intervention in foreign wars? And if an entrepreneur doesn't want to work with a Trump supporter at the small business she founded and pours her time and energy into, is that any of the government's business? What if it's an Antifa rioter she objects to? What about a neo-Nazi?
Like it or not, one person's right to disaffiliate from white supremacists depends upon another person's right to disaffiliate from conservatives—or communists. The government is not empowered to decide which substantive views are out of bounds, and thank God for that. A law (or worse yet, an executive action) that purports to turn "political expression" into a "civil right" is no modest threat to liberty. It's a direct assault on one of the bedrock principles of a free society.
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Reason quick to attack the Peter Thiel backed candidate.
Ramaswamy isn't saying he wants to stop the government from punishing citizens for their political views, something that is obviously already proscribed by the First Amendment
Except for all the times it isnt. See IRS targeting. Parent group investigations. FBI whistleblower clearances revoked. Assange. Raids of PV offices. Warrants on members of the press. Spending money to censor on social media.
Whoops. Forgot Biden going after abortion protestors. Again today.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-department-indicts-eight-abortion-clinic-protesters-face-act-violations
Still ignored by reason.
Why would they attack someone on their own team for doing exactly what they want him to do?
Idiots often overate their own intelligence.
They are not libertarians. At all. They like Democratic / "liberal" (ha!) abuses of free speech (just like New York Times).
A lot of important unlibertarian activities by democrats are ignored by Reason. Intentionally.
My thoughts exactly. How is the First Amendment working on college campuses? On Internet social platforms? You remember, when Reason supported that very censorship because they were “private companies”. But then we learned like good fascists they were censoring at the behest of the Biden Administration and Democratic party. Reason is unreasonable.
Does Reason know liberal teachers are actually teaching little kids in school the 1st amendment is dangerous? And what about our Obama packed courts that rule in favor of any Democratic censorship?
Source in your last two claims. Newsmax isn't a source,
And yes, Twitter can censor what they want. When the FBI pushes them to censor though, it's a problem.
Twitter can censor what they want, so long as they accept liability for all user content. If they want protection from liability for user content, then they’re not supposed to censor legal user content. They want it both ways.
Based on what?
Section 230 already protects platforms (and users) from liability for content provided by others. There is no requirement that they "not censor" in order to enjoy that protection.
https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/23/hello-youve-been-referred-here-because-youre-wrong-about-section-230-communications-decency-act/
The way I see it is this: If a social media company censors then they become a publisher, and publishers aren't shielded from liability. They are free to say "the views expressed in this post do not reflect the views of this organization...", but not to silence, delete, etc.
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Based on their own contractual terms with their users.
Based on Section 230. I disagree with TechDirt's interpretation.
But there is a requirement that they do so in good faith.
Censoring one side of a political position, while not doing the same to the other side is not acting in good faith.
Anyone above the level of a moron knows the section was written for content that is universally accepted as offensive.
Just because it espouses a conservative viewpoint doesn't make it offensive.
You listed times when the law was broken. The constitution remians the same. Ramaswamy is not advocating enforcing the first amendment. He is advocating something completely different, as explained in the article. Your list of times the first amendmnet has not been enforced, does not in any way show a reason to follow Ramaswamy's insane plan, whihc would not increase first amendment enforcement at all.
Yet it remains that these instances when the law is broken are nonetheless ignored by Reason -- even though they are government actions that are 1st Amendment violations ... meanwhile, if a Republican even thinks about violating the 1st Amendment -- an understandable reaction, considering all that has transpired to violate conservative 1st Amendment rights in the last few years -- Reason is on the case!
The hypocrisy -- and the fact that these violations consistently pillory one side of the political spectrum, while leaving the other unscathed, deserves its own call-out.
Instead, "civil rights" is a reference to laws such as the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which reach into civil society and constrain what private organizations, such as clubs and businesses, may do.
Restricting free association for groups if those groups go against favored constituents.
The CRA is an egregious assault on free association. Stephanie is unperturbed.
This. Reasons selective outrage is, as always, telling
Slade is a tool.
I remember Shackford advocating using those types of laws in regards to gay marriage recognition.
"The CRA is an egregious assault on free association. Stephanie is unperturbed."
Hmmm.
I am thinking that freedom not to associate with someone because one despises their politics, or whatever, is rather different than refusing to associate with someone, as refusing to serve them in a business open to the public, because one despises their skin color or because they sport a Yarmulke.
I am thinking that freedom not to associate with someone because one despises their politics, or whatever, is rather different than refusing to associate with someone, as refusing to serve them in a business open to the public, because one despises their skin color or because they sport a Yarmulke.
That's because you're so stupid as to assume you're the first person who's ever had this thought before, even just on these forums.
Why? How is disagreeing over religion so much different than disagreeing over politics? It is a contention over beliefs.
You've been taught your entire life that special classes exist, have you ever actually thought deeply of what the definition of special class is aside from a government edict? See Indias caste system as a non race based example.
” …How is disagreeing over religion so much different than disagreeing over politics? It is a contention over beliefs.”
It’s not. But there is a difference, as an example, between refusing someone service because you think you might find their views offensive, and say, asking someone to leave your business because they actually are saying things you find offensive, which would be your right, since your business is still your private property.
Define what is offensive. Hint. It is subjective.
I'm for no protected classes. Not government defined ones.
"Define what is offensive. Hint. It is subjective."
Absolutely.
"I’m for no protected classes. Not government defined ones."
I agree.
But, I am equally against (ostensibly) public spaces, such as a supermarket, or hospital, which would create their own "classes" which they decide they don't want to serve.
Then how do you decide who deserves protection? Why not political protection? See Cuba, Venezuela, and even Ukraine.
"Then how do you decide who deserves protection? Why not political protection? See Cuba, Venezuela, and even Ukraine."
I don't see it as "protecting certain classes." I see it as helping ensure equal "access" to everyone to things like commerce (business), health care (hospitals), housing, and other things most of us take for granted.
Admittedly, things will never be truly "equal" across the board. Some folks, through social connections, wealth, or other things, have more "access" than others.
I don’t see it as “protecting certain classes.” I see it as helping ensure equal “access” to everyone to things like commerce (business), health care (hospitals), housing, and other things most of us take for granted.
Spoken like a true mafioso. Again, you think you're the first person to pull this stupid "We aren't protecting anyone, we're just helping some people get a leg up." bait and switch around here?
There's also the vague anachronistic hyperbolic threats cooked up to backstop the position like ENB does with abortion. Yeah, 150 yrs. ago when everybody who didn't have a horse had to walk everywhere, being denied access to food, water, and room and board could mean your death. Especially if radical political activists had pulled your same bullshit mafia tactics in their favor for 3 counties in any direction. But it's not 1865 anymore. The Klan couldn't possibly stop Uber-Eats from meeting you wherever you are, with food, and take you wherever you need to go, even if the law allowed it, Uber (or Lyft or Via or a dozen others) and their drivers wouldn't do it. The only real, critically essential public accommodation is admission to hospital emergency rooms and that's been regulated before, during, after, and beyond CRA '64.
Equity or freedom, not both. Anybody promising you equity in the name of freedom is seeking rent from both you and the people they're supposedly trying to lift up.
But your responses show you are fine with denying equal access based on political ideology. I pointed to examples for a reason.
As mad casual notes, Democrats were literally calling for denied access to hospitals for vaccine deniers.
Ah “(ostensibly) public spaces” - a delightful exception that swallows the whole principle of freedom of association.
If a shopping mall puts up a sign on its entrances saying “No Jehovahs Witnesses, No Beggars and No Unaccompanied Children” then it is NOT ostensibly a public place.
But is that what you mean ? Are you OK with private businesses excluding who they choose, so long as they put a sign up ?
In any event, why should they put a sign up ? I recall, many moons ago, going into a bar in Naples wearing shorts. They politely told me to leave as they required long pants. There was no sign saying so. But why should they put a sign up. If someone you don’t want to serve enters your premises you can politely tell them to go. What’s ostensibility got to do with anything ?
Different, how so?
“Different, how so?”
Okay. Let me rephrase and simplify: I have blue eyes. Should I be forced to allow non-blue-eyed people in my hardware store?
So you are against the CRA. That is the argument above.
Jesse: do I really need a "/sarc" for that?
In today's world, yes, you need a /sarc for that. If, indeed, it was meant sarcastically.
Discrimination based on eye color is probably prohibited because very few POC have anything beyond brown eyes, sort of a racist failure of evolution one might say.
"In today’s world, yes, you need a /sarc for that. If, indeed, it was meant sarcastically."
Well, since my mother had brown eyes, and my wife has green eyes, you can safely assume I meant it sarcastically.
And since I have never met your wife or mother...
BTW, I have green eyes, which makes me prone to "white nationalism", though I am not sure what white nationalism actually is.
So you are back to being fine with protected classes.
Look at Maos Revolution for why political persecution is just as bad as racial. Or the USSR. Or Cuba.
or because they sport a Yarmulke.
So explain to me what's different about a belief system that says you're the chosen race, and a belief system that says you're the chosen race?
One says that 'race' is the belief system known as 'Judaism', and the rest are actually fixated on biologically based races.
What's the difference?
Exactly! While Ramaswamy's concept is problematic, the big issue is the 1964 Civil Rights Act itself. If I'm running a business and don't want blue-eyed blond people coming in, that is my right. And the fix for that is very simple, blue-eyed blond people are free to make sure that everyone in town knows that I'm a bigot.
To the extent that anything more is required than the First Amendment prohibition against Congress prohibiting peaceful assembly, there should be no law that compels me to associate with people that I find offensive.
“If I’m running a business and don’t want blue-eyed blond people coming in, that is my right.
What if the person was wearing brown contacts -- do you have the right to inspect their eyes?
And, (I am assuming) that if your prejudice was directed by skin color rather than eye color, you would claim the same right?
It is the business' decision.
Again. We have many instances of political prosecution being just as terrible as racial.
Explain the difference.
"We have many instances of political prosecution being just as terrible as racial"
Hi Jesse: I am not questioning your veracity, but please give me a specific example or two, relevant to our nation or culture, if you would.
I gave you many examples. Why are you trying to pare it down. Because you realize your argument is failing?
If it didn’t happen explicitly in america it will never happen here? Bake the cake is one. Canada has police going after people for pronouns. Elias is using the ABA to go after conservative lawyers. The j6 protestors could barely find lawyers to represent them.
Sorry. But you have no valid reason why only certain classes should be protected. We have seen in history how menacing political prosecutions can be. It was one of the primary goals of the KKK for fucks sake.
I will even point to COINTELPRO, an FBI program targeting beliefs. This isn't something that is unknown.
Oh, and one more thing, Jesse, just to make things clear:
In my opinion, the modern USA is probably the least "racist, "biased," etc., and most "inclusive" large nation, in every aspect -- politically, culturally, racially, whatever -- in the history of the entire world. And this is a good thing.
So why defend subsets of citizens for special protections?
"So why defend subsets of citizens for special protections?"
Again, Jesse, I do not "defend subsets of citizens for special protections." Rather, I defend the rights of everyone to equally participate in society. The government may have chosen to identify certain groups as being barred by such, historically, but that does not, in itself, make them "special." I fully admit that various pundits and politicians seem to have undermined this.
Every person should be given equal treatment under the law. Yes, including the J6 (so-called) mob. Even the KKK has had their day. But if I have the "right" to choose not to serve some particular group in my hardware store because of the coloration of their skin, then I how can not grant the same "right" to General Motors to hire only people with blonde hair and blue eyes?
The civil rights laws are based on immutable characteristics, not peoples beliefs. The two are completely different things.
Ya think?
Like Stephanie you are missing the point. It is perfectly true that "immutable characteristics" are different from "people's beliefs". Bacon is different from coleslaw, back ache is different from tooth ache. So what ?
The fact that you have identified some circumstances in which you think it's perfectly OK for the government to restrict freedom of association, does not prevent the government's restriction of freedom of association being a restriction of freedom of association. It's just a restriction of freedom of association that you approve of.
It's the same fallacy that Stephanie is spouting :
To treat viewpoints in the same way would amount to an egregious infringement on the right of free association
No, not an "egregious" infringement, just a common or garden regular infringement. Because that ship has sailed. The tell is "in the same way". She's stating explicitly that it would be following the 1964 precedent. You leave the flock when you depart from precedent, not when you follow it. Following is what sheep do. That's why they come in flocks.
In 1964, the Civil Rights Act's restrictions on freedom of association were "egregious." But it's not egregious any more to restrict freedom of association. It's normal. It's routine. It's commonplace.
To treat viewpoints in the same way would amount to an egregious infringement on the right of free association—that is, our ability to join together with others who share our values or beliefs for a common purpose. Churches, charities, social clubs, and yes, even political entities such as advocacy organizations are all examples.
Political persuctions are fine. Mao and stalin would love this shit.
If a right is good, for example based on transgenderism, it should be extended to everyone. Not just for preferred people.
Cunt is perfectly fine with every last infringement on association imposed by leftists using any means necessary but heaven forbid a leftist like her ever be exposed to another opinion.
Government should never have a say in whom we can interact with. It should always free association. If limits are set for a preferred group it should be for all groups, not only groups government favor.
Absolutely no government money should be spent convincing business or others to favor or disfavor groups. No matter race or political.
I hope they get all the Trump they can stand.
Maybe if that candidate weren’t advocating a patently anti-American and illiberal policy, then they wouldn’t get criticized for it.
Yeah, this looks like a deliberate misinterpretation to me.
An article looking for a story?
An assumption looking for a publishing deadline.
A narrative looking for a chump.
'Political Expression' Shouldn't Be a 'Civil Right'
Yeah, that status is reserved for wedding cakes.
Beat me to it, M.
Ask yourself whether a pro-life group should be required by law to accept a job candidate who loudly espouses a right to abortion. How about the reverse?
Now ask yourself about cake-baking.
Yet; As the article points out; the two are quite equal in concept.
A fair number of states already prohibit private discrimination on the basis of political affiliation or beliefs. Where was your outrage against those state laws?
More to the point, where is your evidence that those state laws are locally causing the adverse consequences you fear from this federal proposal?
Mind you, the argument is correct in theory - but it's really an argument against discrimination laws generally. If the government should not interfere with your right to associate (or not) on the basis of politics, it also should not interfere with your right to associate (or not) on the basis of race, religion or any other factor.
Mind you, the argument is correct in theory – but it’s really an argument against discrimination laws generally.
This. It's a little late to start crying about "muh freedom of association" now. That horse has already left the barn, died of old age, and been shipped off to the glue factory.
Just because one horse has left the barn doesn’t mean we shouldn’t prevent the others from getting out. Should we not argue against 90% income tax rates because we already have income taxes?
Do you agree with targeted political prosecutions? Because this is how you get there. Sure the 10% they target all believe the same thing, but the other 90% are safe.
Unequal application of justice is a favorite tactic of authoritarianism.
Goldwater pegged it back in 64.
https://www.centralmaine.com/2014/07/19/goldwaters-vote-against-civil-rights-act-of-1964-unfairly-branded-him-a-racist/
Would you be so kind as to point me to the laws you say are essentially the same as what Ramaswamy is advocating?
Here's one (from California, no less!):
"https://californiaemploymentlaw.foxrothschild.com/2018/10/articles/discrimination/does-california-prohibit-political-discrimination-at-work/
I'll leave finding laws in other states as an exercise for the reader.
Is this a surreptitious version of "The libertarian case for censorship" we've all been expecting from Reason?
Another, you mean
Thinking is hard but fine-sounding slogans are much easier. It's also hard for many people to just ignore stuff they don't like. It's much easier to jump all over mean people and declare their deplorable behavior to be illegal. Never mind that it doesn't work and causes a lot of damage in the process of failing ...
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"Ramaswamy isn't saying he wants to stop the government from punishing citizens for their political views, something that is obviously already proscribed by the First Amendment (and something that certain anti-woke Republicans have themselves flirted with recently despite the crystal-clear constitutional prohibition)."
Good thing no current Democrats want to use the government to punish citizens for their political views--right Stephanie, you dumb cunt?
I thought the same thing when I read that line. What a fucking joke these people are.
The only reason that I can think of how they can constantly do it without hurting their consciences, is that they were never actually libertarians to begin with. It's just a pose they assume for work.
Stephanie does not support those who seek government punsihment for a persons political views. So you are going on about nothing whatsoever.
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1628524239690285056?t=lT2EHlqykhoYeK55BVEdkQ&s=19
Why did so many Americans support fines, imprisonment, and taking children away from the unvaccinated last year?
[Graphic]
20% of Republicans agreed with Democrats on those items. But it’s totes Trumps toxicity that is the problem….
https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1628546579358527489?t=BqoLjpE7TiOXzy9zUEDNHQ&s=19
Last January 60% of Democrats wanted to lock everyone who didn’t get the covid shot in their houses. Over 40% of Democrats wanted those who rejected the covid shot sent to quarantine camps. Over 40% also wanted anyone who criticized the covid shot fined & imprisoned. Over a quarter wanted those who didn’t get the covid shot to have their kids seized. Now they’re trying to pretend none of this ever happened. There must be consequences.
That's why they're calling for Amnesty. Amnesty goes down a lot easier than a Nuremberg trial that ends in a hanging.
"To treat viewpoints in the same way would amount to an egregious infringement on the right of free association"
Say as relates to self selected "gender"?
All characteristics protected by the Civil rights act infringe on the right to free association. How is a political belief different than a religious one?
Yeah Stephanie is pretty desperately trying to parse a difference but I'm not seeing it. Government has been pissing on free association for decades but I guess that was different because FYTW. This is just another pathetic attempt to take down another "conservative" for sugar daddy Koch.
Libertarians for galloping statism.
Its the Reason way.
https://twitter.com/MysteryGrove/status/1628560200859893760?t=xQhphZdcPDSDR9aogBv_ng&s=19
I thought the city of Cologne, Germany had finally figured out what to do with "climate" activists but sadly this was simply another protest
[Pic]
I wonder, do you think if they did this in TX and someone pulled out a gun and started shooting "at the ropes" the shooter could get away with it? If they weren't Alec Baldwin I mean.
What kind of paranoid take is this? I saw nothing in the twits he twitted that said anything of the kind. Make political expression a civil right? How far do you have to reach to oppose that as a libertarian?!
Slade is a Reason statist. It is all about government imposing their preferred outcomes.
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This guy, like many clingers, is steamed because the bigotry, superstition, ignorance, delusion, and backwardness that mark today's conservative electoral coalition are increasingly disfavored by the modern American mainstream.
Rather than try to improve, these bigots strive to create special privileges and safe spaces for racists, superstitious gay-bashers, chanting right-wing anti-Semites, misogynists, xenophobes, Islamophobes, etc.
The American marketplace of ideas has rejected their insularity, ignorance, and intolerance, and no amount of special exemptions or protections will prevent these losers from continuing to be stomped by their betters in the American culture war.
I hope they change course and try to improve. I know they will be replaced, in the normal course, because that's the American way.
"
You just attacked a person of color. That makes you a racist, and a bigot. So your white male ass is cancelled.
Better kill yourself right away, you fucking Nazi.
This message paid for by Vanguard and Blackrock.
Do you have an alter ego named Willmer? I think I met him in the Comments on the Roald Dahl story. He's as big an asshole as you from the opposite end of the Nolan Chart.
Carry On, Klinger! And careful flourishing that cape, Eugene!
Or, you know, instead of improving, those "conservatives" could just finally admit they are just Democrats. Then all that bigotry, superstition, ignorance, delusion, and backwardness would be celebrated instead of denigrated!
And the conservatives who actually believe in conservatism would be relieved that there are fewer Democrats pretending to be conservatives among their ranks. It's a win-win!
What a bunch of crap from Reason.
Why not just go after the parts of the CRA that are anti-liberty (sections 2 and 8 I believe) where the Govt imposes itself on free trade and free labor (who you hire)?
But if you are going to support that, why shouldn't political views be protected in your place of employment? Best solution is to get govt out of all of this but if not, how can you support racial quotas and forcing people to "bake the cake" yet not also project labor based on political beliefs. Just keep adding more and more protected classes..and eventually the whole ridiculous house of cards will collapse.
Here’s his full Tweet – it isn’t a wall of text so I am comfortable posting it:
“Eliminate affirmative action. Dismantle climate religion. 8-year limits for federal bureaucrats. Shut down worthless federal agencies. Declare Total Independence from China. Annihilate the drug cartels. Make political expression a civil right. No CBDCs [Central Bank Digital Currency]. Revive merit & excellence.”
Even if he has the (dubious) idea of making political affiliation a protected class, his other ideas don’t sound so bad. In principle. Though independence from China may be a bit difficult.
(And I suppose the libertarians will pitch in that drug legalization will annihilate the cartels.)
Rights aren't granted by 'government'. (i.e. entitlements)
They are INHERENT (exist w/o government) and are only ensured.
The founders were very wise to address this miss-conception by wording the Bill of Rights as LIMITS on the Gov-Guns of force. And frankly the '64 Civil Rights Act (pitched by Democrats) was more of an *entitlement* than anything else. And that BS (entitle-me ... the "protected class") has a ton do with the state of nation today.
https://twitter.com/realdanlyman/status/1628482839489413120?t=JyiFmH3hn8P2_9kT3pci6Q&s=19
Apparently, Scott Adams, of all people, has had enough of the gaslighting and hate and went off on his stream today
This 'rant' has to be seen to be believed
TL;DR screenshot from anon included
WATCH: youtu.be/K6TnAn7qV1s?t=…
Poll was of 1000 people. At most 12% were black - 120 people. Of that 26% (31 people or so) trolled the poll and said it wasn't o.k. to be white. It was probably fewer black people because the polling uses land lines mostly and those are old white people. Who do you know who answers land-line telephone polls? Old people who have time on their hands because they are retired. Probably more white ones because they can afford to retire earlier. And trolls.
So, is it OK to be white? Is it OK to say (tweet, video, etc) that "it's OK to be white"? My impression is that when this innocuous phrase "went viral" is that it was considered a hate crime to say "It's OK to be white".
Holy cow.
I wonder if that's going to be removed.
Ramaswamy isn't saying he wants to stop the government from punishing citizens for their political views, something that is obviously already proscribed by the First Amendment (and something that certain anti-woke Republicans have themselves flirted with recently despite the crystal-clear constitutional prohibition)
I'm pretty sure I know what this sentence is trying to say, but what it actually says is that certain anti-woke Republicans have flirted with stopping the government from punishing citizens for their political views.
This sort of "mouth/keyboard on, brain off" faux pas tends to happen when you don't give two shits about an actual issue or the Constitution and are trying to impugn Republicans no matter which side of the issue that you don't care about they're on.
Ron DeSantis and J.D. Vance didn't choose to make you a political hack, Stephanie, you make that choice every morning when you get up and go to work.
We already have legal protections and violation of freedom of association for political beliefs, as long as those political beliefs fall under Islam, critical race theory, or LGBTQ+ advocacy, among a few others.
As long as those exist, I don’t see anything wrong with adding conservatism and libertarianism to the list of views that shouldn’t be discriminated against.
But that happens now. A Catholic employer is forced to hire someone who is pro-choice instead of pro-life. A Jew is forced to hire a Muslim, even if he wishes for the destruction of Israel. A fundamentalist Christian can't discriminate against a satanist in regard to hiring.
So are you willing to dump religion as a protected class also? There's only a hair of difference between religion and politics.
he wants to stop the government from punishing citizens for their political views, something that is obviously already proscribed by the First Amendment
Well, obviously, that is if you ignore the last five years, then yes... obviously.
"Only 5? It feels like its been almost 10, if not longer!" - Assange and Snowden
Vivek Ramaswamy... Vivek Ramaswamy... you know, this is the kind of immigration success story I think we can all get behind.
I agree. I like him. A lot. I still like DeSantis better, but Ramaswamey in 2032 appeals to me.
And... What a great name: Vivek Ramaswamey. It makes Barak Obama sound old and racist. I probably misspelled it but that doesn't matter.
I think discrimination laws in general violate the right to freedom of association. However, most people who aren't racist or libertarian would probably attack anyone who suggests repealing the 1964 Civil Rights act.
If only that right was included in the Constitution. That would fix so many bad government policies, including the minimum wage and discrimation laws.
I would support rolling back federal and state CRAs to cover only the services and goods listed in the original act.
California already has a law like this. You can't discriminate for hiring against someone because of their political beliefs.
It still happens behind the curtains, though, under the auspices of "DEI."
My parents keep threatening to throw me out of the house and fire me from the family business for not being a Trumpist or a Christian, and if I get vaccinated against COVID-19. I am an investment analyst, my job performance does not hinge on my politics, my religion, or on not being vaccinated. But, I have delayed phase sleep syndrome. So, I am not sure that I can survive in another environment. So why should I support anyone else's right to free association and disassociation, when all it ever does is serve as a hindrance to me?
Sounds like you're doing a good job of disassociating.
Seek professional help.
These what-ifs you throw in that are supposed to scare us actually sound fantastic. Should an anti-abortion activist be able to work at an abortion clinic? If they do a good job and don't work against the objectives of the organization, of course they should be able to! How is this even a subject for debate?
Do you seriously believe that freedom to disassociate means that we can have MTG's national divorce and secession movements? Come on. Freedom to disassociate doesn't mean you have the ability to discriminate by viewpoint. It means that YOU can leave the organization if you don't like it, not block someone else from joining it. The point being that the INDIVIDUAL is the one who must act and not building these responsibilities into institutions.
>>>Ask yourself whether a pro-life group should be required by law to accept a job candidate who loudly espouses a right to abortion. How about the reverse?
Stephanie Slade demonstrates a breathtaking level of ignorance of recent court cases and events.
Critics Say Latest Lawsuit Against Beleaguered Masterpiece Cakeshop Baker Inevitable After Weak SCOTUS Ruling
https://www.dailywire.com/news/critics-say-latest-lawsuit-against-beleaguered-masterpiece-cakeshop-baker-inevitable-after-weak-scotus-ruling
Gay Coffee Shop Owner Denies Service To Christians, Kicks Them Out
https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-gay-coffee-shop-owner-denies-service-ryan-saavedra
There's an obvious LIBERTARIAN answer that most of the commenters know instinctively.
There shouldn't be "protected classes" at all and free association should be free association. But if we're going to have "protected classes," political speech is a good as any of the others.