Bad Schools Aren't Always Underfunded
"More money can help schools succeed, but not if they fritter those extra resources in unproductive ways," says one researcher.

A viral TikTok video of Carmel High School outside Indianapolis, Indiana, has sparked a revealing conversation about school funding and school performance. The video, which had over 34 million views on TikTok and Twitter as of Wednesday morning, shows a group of students giving a tour of their massive and well-manicured suburban campus. The public school's facilities include a sizeable gleaming auditorium, an auto shop, and a planetarium.
Critics quickly argued that Carmel's schools must be better funded than worse-performing Indianapolis City Schools. "[W]hen you see this and then look at the other 'publicly funded' high schools in indianapolis, you realize just how blatantly racist indiana is," wrote one Twitter user in a post with over 9 million views.
"A lot of us know very well what it's like to go to high schools primarily made up of trailers while knowing that those in rich neighborhoods had state of the art facilities," another user posted.
However, Carmel High School spends significantly less per pupil than public high schools in Indianapolis. According to the Indiana Department of Education, Carmel High School in 2020 spent between $3,500 to $6,000 less per pupil compared to the four public high schools in Indianapolis.
Even with this massive spending gap, there are marked differences in performance. At Carmel High School, 71 percent of students are proficient in math, and 89 percent are proficient in reading; in Indianapolis City Schools, only 6 and 26 percent are proficient in math and reading, respectively. Indianapolis public high schools are failing—but it isn't for a lack of money.
As it turns out, the correlation between funding and school quality is extremely weak. According to one 2012 report from Harvard and Stanford researchers, "On average, an additional $1000 in per-pupil spending is associated with an annual gain in achievement of one-tenth of 1 percent of a standard deviation. But that trivial amount is of no statistical or substantive significance."
Further, one 2019 analysis of National Assessment of Educational Progress test scores found that "six of the top 10 states that improved their average test scores on the NAEP the most were among the 11 states with the smallest funding growth. Conversely, New York made the same progress as Michigan while revenues grew by nearly $10,000 a student, a 76 percent increase in raw dollars. Michigan's unadjusted funding growth over the period was 26 percent."
The comparison is even starker when looking at state-by-state examples. In 2019, Utah spent the least on education in the U.S.—with just $7,811 per pupil, according to US News & World Report. Neighboring Wyoming spent almost $10,000 more per student—shelling out an average of $17,018 per pupil. Despite this gap, the two states have remarkably similar student performance. Forty-four percent of Wyoming's 4th graders are proficient or better in math, compared to 42 percent of Utah's 4th graders. In reading, 38 percent of Wyoming's 4th graders are proficient or better, while 37 percent of Utah's 4th graders are. It's not apparent what the thousands of dollars in extra funding are doing in Wyoming public schools—but it doesn't appear to help students learn better.
Why doesn't more money always help schools improve? Mainly, the answer is that failing yet well-funded schools often simply aren't spending their money wisely.
"More money can help schools succeed, but not if they fritter those extra resources in unproductive ways," Jay Greene, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, told Reason. "There is no one formula for how to spend money correctly in schools. But there are many common ways that schools blow resources. Wasteful schools tend to hire more non-instructional staff while raising the pay and benefit costs for all staff regardless of their contribution to student outcomes. If you fully disconnect compensation from performance, you can raise salaries and benefits endlessly without anyone learning more."
While making good spending choices can help close some of the gap between affluent and non-affluent schools, it's worth noting that student poverty has a large effect on school performance. At Carmel High School, for example, only 10 percent of students are eligible for free or reduced-price lunches. At George Washington Community High School in Indianapolis, 66 percent of students are eligible.
Often, these challenges are difficult for schools to address, as low-income children often face a disadvantage long before they begin school. For example, one report from the Brookings Institution found that almost half of all low-income children are not ready to start school at age five. Thus, it's unlikely that two schools with very different student populations can end up with the same results—no matter how much money gets spent.
That said, a high concentration of low-income students doesn't necessarily mean that a school is bound to be low-performing. Many charter schools outperform local public schools even with much lower per-pupil spending—and, in many cases, more low-income students. The difference is that charter schools are incentivized to make good fiscal decisions because parents can leave if they feel their child's needs aren't being met.
"Because charter schools are more accountable to parents for results, they tend to use their uses more effectively in ways that accomplish the results parents are seeking," Greene added.
As long as parents—especially low-income parents without the ability to move to another school district—only have the option of sending their child to a local public school, it's difficult to imagine irresponsible spending habits changing anytime soon.
"Unfortunately, existing public school systems have practices and policies that tend to divert extra money to things that do not improve student outcomes," Green says. "Some schools, especially in the private and charter sectors where they are more accountable to parents for results, have adopted better practices and policies that get more bang for the educational buck, which is why we can see some very high-performing schools that spend relatively little."
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where they are more accountable to parents for results,
That’s the real difference, not money.
The private high school that I attended (in the '90's) spent about 33% per student compared to the local public school district, and out-performed them in every category but football.
out-performed them in every category but football.
So you clearly must bear that shame to the end of your days.
And your cheer was "That's all right, that's ok, we're gonna be your boss one day."
Not clever enough to give scholarships for football players, huh?
The most important factor in determining the quality of a school is not the quality of the teachers or of the administrators. It's not the quality of the equipment the students use in labs or the books in the library.
The most important factor in determining the quality of a school is the quality of the students.
If you put the public-school students into charter schools, they will drag down the quality of the charter schools.
That hasn’t been the experience…so far. Which is why the Public School establishment fights ‘school choice’ so bitterly; in almost every case where students in failing public schools have been allowed an alternative the results have been better.
However, if ALL public school students were placed in charter schools, you’re probably right, especially if the charter schools were not able to expel the feral.
The catholic school I attended (in the 90's) spent about 50% per student compared to the local public school district and outperformed them in every category including football. Sadly, it was all male.
Well, that and parents who enroll their kids in charter schools are more likely to value education and take an active role in their children's education.
That has nothing to do with spending, though.
Government schools wanting more money. In other news, there was a sunrise this morning.
Socio-economic level of the kid's family and the education level achieved by the kid's mom are the two greatest factors and indicators of a kid's academic success.
Parental involvement is what really matters. And that goes way up when you charge tuition.
Yes, parental involvement matters. And the metrics to determine whether parental involvement will be a thing are the two factors I laid out above.
It almost always boils down to those factors.
Kind of difficult for their baby mommas to get involved when they're smoking crack and trying to get pregnant again.
For example, one report from the Brookings Institution found that almost half of all low-income children are not ready to start school at age five.
I can't believe I have to say this but correlation is not causation.
It's not the small apartment or crappy used car their mom drives that makes these kids do badly in school.
It's the lack of books at home. Having as few as 20 books at home means roughly 2 more years in education level achieved and is a more significant factor than the father's education level. At 80 books you're talking more than 3 additional years.
It's a freaking huge impact - and very well studied - but almost invisible in public discussion about schools/education or charitable giving.
Uhm, okay, but that's still correlation and not causation. The books don't magically insert themselves into a child's brain. The books are there because someone at home valued the books and purchased them, purposefully, with some intentionality behind them. The cause is the parent's intention to develop their child's reading, not the mere presence of the books.
You and your ilk really are complete assholes. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Only difference is that you think YOU are that Old Testament God.
this is the response of a crazy person
A bona fide loop-a-dupe.
Someone forgot their morning medications.
No better way to end any rational discussion than to insert GodSpeak into it.
Well if your argument [SPEND MORE MONEY!] falls flat, you then have to resort to the tried and true ad hominem or God speak [more likely woke speak, WHITE SUPREMACY!].
Some exceptional kids can overcome the effects of poor parenting, but many don't. It doesn't require the judgment of an angry God to explain that.
Well there is certainly no possibility of any kid ever overcoming anything once you condemn children for the poverty of their parents and the poverty of their neighborhood.
The reality is that:
2/3 of kids living in poverty households have zero books at home
Poverty neighborhoods have no places to see/buy books at say a bookstore (13 books for sale per child in middle-class neighborhoods v 1 book per 300 children in poor neighborhoods). Amazon made the problem much much worse.
Public libraries in poor neighborhoods are the first ones to close or reduce hours when there is a staff shortage and the last ones to get books.
School libraries don’t open outside school hours, those libraries tend to be crappier than better neighborhood schools, and that doesn’t help much anyway with pre-school age kids.
It may take an exceptional kid to overcome all that but it ain’t genetic when environment is so tilted.
What you said isn’t remotely true. Books are everywhere. It isn’t hard to get one. Poverty does not correlate with the lack of books.
A Thinking Mind refuted your argument and you had to resort to personal attacks, all while your anti-Christianity and antisemitism is showing. You should repent.
still correlation.
It's not the books sitting on teh shelf that make the kids do better in school.
It's the kind of family, lifestyle, parenting, and class that has the books on the shelf and ALSO raises kids who do better in school.
Ever notice with all the smash and grab robberies taking place, not a single book was stolen.Nor were any work shoes stolen.
https://twitter.com/ericswalwell/status/1625646098281889798?t=t7zTw-9XVkiUAMPvjOn3Jw&s=19
It’s very simple: you’re either here for the kids or the killers. Time and again, Republicans have chosen their side.
Im making over $13k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.last month her pay check was $12712 just working on the laptop for a few hours. This is what I do,
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https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1625847135731085314?t=Bo9vgnEJea43WToy6MAFsw&s=19
When I reference photosynthesis at an 8th grade biology level to liberals, they often throw poo emojis and protest that neither of my MIT science degrees are in biology.
[Link]
I actually knew Melvin Calvin when I was in grad school. (Remember the "Calvin cycle" from photosynthesis? That Melvin Calvin.)
Surprisingly (to me) the big advance that enabled him to do the work was particle accelerators, which created high-concentration carbon 14 which could be used as a tracer as the reactions progressed. How many people would have guessed that plant biology depended so heavily on nuclear physics?
As someone with an undergrad math degree I am forced to point out that both physics and biology are both significant subsets of math which they depend so heavily on.
I think somebody linked this the other day but it's on topic so here ya go.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/not-single-student-can-do-math-grade-level-53-illinois-schools
Get rid of all public schools. now.
Remember, public schools do not get to choose their students. They have to take all comers, no matter how dumb the comers are. When public schools do get to choose their students (like the one I graduated from) they do just as well as any private school and much better than charter schools.
Saying “Charter schools do better for their students, so let’s put everyone in charter schools” is like saying “MIT does better for its students than University of Florida, so let’s transfer all the students at University of Florida to MIT, and then they’ll do well too!”
It is not reasonable to expect public schools to do as well as schools which get to select their students. The correct question to ask about a public school is: "is it better than no school at all?".
Threadbare excuse. Marva Collins and Jaime Escalante both showed stellar results with students that the apparat had written off as stupid.
-jcr
Just in case you forgot; charter schools ARE public schools.
And since we're on the subject of public schools.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/chicago-dad-placed-watchlist-after-opposing-pornography-schools
Over the summer of 2021, Terry Newsome—who described himself in comments to the Epoch Times as a “lifelong Democrat” until recently—was one of several parents in the 99th school district of Downer’s Grove, Chicago, who expressed opposition to books in his children’s library that had sexually explicit and pornographic content.
In December, Newsome discovered he had been placed on a watchlist.
On Dec. 16, 2022, he and his family attempted to board a plane en route to Turning Point USA’s “America Fest” convention in Phoenix, Arizona.
Newsome, who travels a great deal for work, was shocked to learn that he had been placed on a watchlist and had to get substantially more screening before being allowed to board, causing him to miss his original flight.
Initially, Newsome was told that he had been placed on the list by the FBI. On his return journey from Phoenix, he was informed that the classification originated from the Department of Justice (DOJ).
Dangerous porn deniers.
It was probably because he was going to a Turning Point function.
Must had asked some questions at a school board meeting and got himself labeled as a domestic terrorist.
You lost me at Epoch Times.
Ad hominem attack. Are you saying that Terry Newsome is lying? Why defend the Chicago public schools like this?
https://twitter.com/TheRabbitHole84/status/1625964752055984129?t=4iXOGSqQUEYaYde4mRavUw&s=19
17.6% of professors in the Social Sciences identified as Marxists as of 2006.
[Link]
Shirley they havent seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwqnRYPcrl0
(Mises v Marx Rap Battle)
or seen the original
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
I am shocked it's that low
Gotta factor in those identifying as socialists, progressives, and "liberals."
Looking at US school funding and teacher salaries in international comparisons and over time, US schools are clearly overfunded, and large funding increases have not resulted in improved performance.
Money is not the problem in US schools. Teacher quality, teacher education, teacher unions, and lack of school choice are.
Actually, disagree with all of your listed items. It doesn't matter how good the school is if the parent doesn't (or isn't equipped to) give a damn. Conversely, it doesn't matter how bad the school is if the parent is motivated enough. I have a very difficult time believing that most failing students don't have failing parents.
Conversely, it doesn’t matter how bad the school is if the parent is motivated enough
Actually that's not true, a really bad school can still fuck up your learning even if your parents are involved in your education. That doesn't mean the gaps are insurmountable, but saying shitty school matters 0% isn't true.
If the parent is motivated enough the child won't be in the school. I experienced that, was in public schools most years but home schooled for one semester because the school was a terrible situation but we couldn't move until the end of the year.
A different district I attended, the superintendent stated at a public school board meeting (a couple months after I moved away) "there are no college-bound students in our district". It might not have been a true statement at the time he said it but attendance had dropped by over 25% the next fall. And note this was an extremely rural district with a total enrollment for all grades of less than 400 students.
I listed the factors under government control.
Obviously, student and parental factors also matter, but they are not under government control when discussing public education policy
++
Motivated parents are called homeschoolers
Schools always look a lot nicer, and are more willing to spend on new facilities, when they trust that the student population isn't going to trash the school and vandalize the property. I've seen it happen where the very nice new school that was opened with great facilities, a beautiful entry way, a gleaming paint job, and a state-of-the-art athletic complex. But then the student population there turned it into a complete dump inside of three years and they weren't willing to spend any more money refurbishing it because they trusted it to be quickly ruined.
Commie-Education BAD.
Now who brainwashed the masses into believing it took GUNS (Gov-Guns) to educate children anyways. Because face the fact; Gun-Force is the *only* tool in governments toolbox.
Any under-funded school is bad, if we define bad as not paying union teachers what they want so they can pay the dues the union wants (and the union can fund the candidates it wants).
Im making over $13k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.last month her pay check was $12712 just working on the laptop for a few hours. This is what I do,
VISIT THIS WEBSITE HERE………….>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com
More funding makes bad schools WORSE. Accountability must PRECEDE funding for real improvement.
Kids do the best in school when their parents are involved. The easiest way to get the parents involved is to charge tuition. The best way to deliver any good or service of the highest quality at the most affordable price is through open competition in the free market.
The best thing for kids would be to shut down all the public schools immediately (or this summer) and sell them to the highest bidder. Let entrepreneurs compete for students and tuition dollars against each other, by providing better results with less overhead costs (unneeded administrators, etc.)
Many people will complain that education is a social good, and “we” must pay to educate the financially disadvantaged. So many people believe this that it should be a simple matter to start a charitable fund to provide money for needy families to send their kids to a school of their choice. And people will have more money to donate once school property taxes are repealed.
Confiscate the union treasury.
Reduce the indoctrination budget by 20% and deal it out to the parents to use.
Please note that if the job title isn't teacher, principal, or janitor, they have no business in a school.
Far too many parents are not involved, especially deys baby mommas who be too busy smoking crack an be gittin pregnint agin.
That 75% of all black children grow up without a father figure present is not even being discussed....because ....das rayciss.
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Salut salior, nouveau en ville?
whenever anyone says anything about needing to throw money at schools to make them "good" i bring up the Abbott Districts
The Washington D.C. school system is usually in the top 10 systems nationwide in spending per student. It’s also usually in the bottom 10 in educational outcomes. The Democrats around here in the Washington metro area blame this on Republicans.
"However, Carmel High School spends significantly less per pupil than public high schools in Indianapolis. According to the Indiana Department of Education, Carmel High School in 2020 spent between $3,500 to $6,000 less per pupil compared to the four public high schools in Indianapolis."
Familiar with the areas as I used to work in Indianapolis and had facilities in both locations. Much easier to say it's just "white supremacy" and fault things like "writing things down, a sense of timeliness, and objectivity" and call it a day, amIright?
If they want to do a study that actually means something, do one between schools with Union and non-Union teachers.
The larger population a district has…
The more powerful it’s unions will be…
The more it will spend per-capita…
And the worse it’s student achievement will be…
Recently there was a write up about the failures of public schools in Baltimore. The situation is so bad a certain student who passed only three classes in four years,“graduated” with failing grades was labeled the top student of his class. I can envision what will happen to most of these young people and it won’t be a lifetime of meaningful occupation and self support. The city has not been named Bodymore / Baltimorgue for no reason. All the money pumped into these schools yet they fail miserably. So whose fault is it? Maybe it’s time to investigate all the corruption involved. Maybe it’s time to rethink the progressive agenda that has ruled America’s public schools for generations.
Being a bad school is usually the reason a school is OVER funded. If they had to be good to get money, instead of taxing the public, they wouldn't be able to stay bad.