Spending Down $12 Million in Pandemic Relief Money on an Immigration Stunt Isn't 'Responsible Fiscal Policy'
Ron DeSantis paid for the Martha's Vineyard migrant flights through interest earned on American Rescue Plan money, which he's said was designed "to bail out the poorly governed states.”

After Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis coordinated two flights last week to relocate dozens of migrants to Martha's Vineyard, critics of the move have questioned how he financed the stunt.
Though the payments have not been definitively linked to the Martha's Vineyard flights, DeSantis' Republican administration paid an aviation company $615,000 one week before flying nearly 50 migrants to Massachusetts on Wednesday. That would come to $12,300 per head. Public records indicate that the Department of Transportation made the payment to Vertol Systems Company Inc., which is based in Oregon but has a location in the Florida panhandle, for a "relocation program of unauthorized aliens."
That relocation program is funded by the state's 2021–2022 appropriations, which allocated $12,000,000 to implement "a program to facilitate the transport of unauthorized aliens from this state consistent with federal law." Funds not spent in fiscal year 2021–2022 roll over to 2022–2023 to be used for the same purpose.
Judging by DeSantis' recent comments, that money is still being spent. "The legislature gave me $12 million," DeSantis said at a news conference on Friday. "We're going to spend every penny of that to make sure that we're protecting the people of the state of Florida."
According to the 2022–2023 spending bill, the $12 million pot comes from "the interest earnings associated with the federal Coronavirus State Fiscal Recovery Fund." Part of the American Rescue Plan—a $1.9 trillion package passed last year against unanimous GOP opposition—set aside about $350 billion as relief cash for states and localities. The federal government attached few strings to how state and local governments spent the interest earned on those funds while they remained unspent.
Florida's migrant relocation fund is by no means the first example of questionably directed COVID-19 relief money, which was ostensibly doled out to cushion economic burdens imposed by the pandemic and the government's response to it. Nor is Florida the first state to use COVID relief money for immigration enforcement. Texas tapped into a similar pandemic fund to support Operation Lone Star, a border-securing program that has proven costly and controversial.
COVID relevance aside, are the Martha's Vineyard flights really "protecting the people of the state of Florida"? For one thing, the spending bill provides money for the transportation of migrants "from this state"—meaning Florida. But last week's flights originated in San Antonio, Texas. DeSantis has defended the use of his state's funds in this way by claiming Florida officials have been working in Texas "for months" to identify and divert individuals who were likely to eventually end up in Florida.
Even so, many of the immigration enforcement schemes embraced by DeSantis and other GOP governors come with hefty price tags, even if their results are sketchy. Florida's migrant transportation fund flies in the face of the fiscal responsibility DeSantis says he defends. DeSantis himself criticized the American Rescue Plan that now funds the migrant relocation program, saying the package was "designed basically to bail out the poorly governed states." When the governor signed the 2022–2023 state budget that funds the migrant relocation program, he vetoed $3.1 billion in spending and laid out tax relief for Floridians, touting his state's "responsible fiscal policies" as he did so.
Moral, legal, and economic concerns all linger, as DeSantis says there will likely be more migrants bused and flown to blue cities. Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes, are less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans, and are able to fill critical jobs, a fiscally responsible governor would be wise to drop the costly enforcement stunts.
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Sending illegal aliens to Martha's Vinyard - $12 million dollars.
Exposing progressives for the hypocrites they are - Priceless.
Except the stunt didn’t achieve that goal. The people of Martha’s Vineyard fed them pizzas and sheltered them.
Maybe if DeSantis had dropped ten times or a hundred times as many people there, it would have exposed them, but as it actually went down they weren’t overwhelmed or unwelcoming at all.
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So then the immigrants ended up in the best place possible, and this wasn't a 'stunt' but an act of kindness.
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"The people of Martha’s Vineyard fed them pizzas and sheltered them."
This is the new narrative. No, they didn't shout and scream about having these people coming there. No, they didn't cry to the cameras. They respectfully fed them pizzas and sheltered them...
...for about 24 hours, and then they had the military come in and take them away. So compassionate.
They sheltered them in homeless shelters. So, they did the least possible amount of compassionate work they could.
The Down Island Dems had no choice- they have to live with giving sanctuary to Carl Reiner's Russian submarine.
If Texas and Florida had their act together, seaplanes with platoons of Venezuelan Heroes of Socialism would have landed on Tucker Carlson's Maine lakeside and John Kerry's Nantucket waterfront
Yeah Mike and then they had the National Guard come and take them to a concentration camp on Cape Cod.
Serious question, what is it with you people and putting people in camps? Why do you love doing it so much?
By "you people," do you mean the educated, modern, successful liberal-libertarian mainstream, victors in the culture war, responsible for shaping American progress against the wishes of bigoted, slack-jawed, backwater right-wingers for more than 50 years?
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit, and not a step beyond.
Mainstream? Man, you really are delusional. But then again, most clinger progressives like yourself are.
Carry on, delusional twit.
No, he meant people that vote democrat. You know, the same people that called in the military to take away those foodtrucks and startup businesses after advocating for them to come into the country in the first place.
"Liberal-libertarian mainstream." You're kidding with this classification, right?
If you think you're a liberal-libertarian mainstream, then I don't even know where to start with correcting you.
Who has been kicking the bigoted shit out of faux libertarian right-wingers in the culture war for the most recent half-century, if not the liberal-libertarian mainstream?
That culture war is not quite over but it has been settled. Clingers hardest hit.
Again, your use of liberal-libertarian mainstream to apply to progressives is so out-of-touch that you have to be a parody.
I would love much more of a liberal-libertarian mainstream movement. But neither side is remotely close to that. And of the two sides, the right is closer than the left.
Look, RevCuntland's lack of self esteem is on display here again ...
“The educated, modern, successful...” your description sounds just like how Nazi’s thought of themselves before their takeover.
"Except the stunt didn’t achieve that goal. The people of Martha’s Vineyard fed them pizzas and sheltered them.
And then shipped the off to a military base the next day.
So?
By your definition compassion is 24 hours before removal. I say we extend this to the national policy on illegal immigration.
A box of pizza for each one, a cot, then ship them out the next day.
You have a deal.
And then the good people, good progressive, rich, lily-white people of Martha's Vineyard had the military ship them right off their lily-white, rich, progressive, sanctuary island to the mainland never to darken their shores again.
Nice try, Mike, but do not pass go and do not collect $200.
ITL seems to have missed PBS's OBL-Lewis Gates Labor Day black critical theory love-in at the Whaling Church in Edgartown
And then shipped them to a camp.
Yes, for a few hours, then they sent them off to military-run concentration camps.
Putting them in homeless shelters for the night and getting them pizza, and then getting them TF off the island as soon as humanly possible is definitely "sheltering and caring for them."
Do you have any idea what a slice of pizza costs in Obamasummerland? I don't either but it's hardly insignificant. Somebody somewhere on the island went without lobster tail that night. So greasy brown people could survive. And all you can do is criticize their Christian, or possibly atheist, charity.
You trying to gaslight somebody? Of course it exposed not only their hypocrisy, but it exposed what the ruling class actually thinks of the "immigrants". They deported them as fast as they could arrange for military forces to deport them. Which shows who has the real power.
And the title of this article is borderline fraudulent. The state legislature authorized the expenditure on doing this. The tremendous burden on the border states is obvious.
And for a purportedly libertarian magazine, have you heard about what's happening to private property in border areas. Do you care what happens to private property owners?
“They deported them as fast as they could…”
That is spin, and spin that only people in your echo chamber are buying. If they had truly wanted to be assholes about it, they would have throw them all in jail immediately for vagrancy.
You are a ridiculous person.
"That is spin, and spin that only people in your echo chamber are buying."
Fair enough. They PROBABLY could have had them deported in 39 hours if they really tried.
They. DEPORTED. them. in. less. than. 2. days.
You cannot whitewash that...which is ironic given the lily white nature of MV.
Don't pull something with such impressive grasping.
Can you ever just not lie?
You could be the most disingenuous cunt on this website. They sent in 150 national guard members to remove them within 48 hours. Then set up a GoFundMe to pay for it. Lol.
"Except the stunt didn’t achieve that goal. The people of Martha’s Vineyard fed them pizzas and sheltered them."
You left out the next part.
Why did you do that, I wonder?
MV, one of the richest non-urban areas in the U.S., refused to take in and KEEP -50- people.
Not a good look for the incredibly wealthy Libtards that live there....
They also asked other people to help this tony rich locale pay for the extreme cost...of having more of the "help" around than usual.
Except the stunt didn’t achieve that goal. The people of Martha’s Vineyard fed them pizzas and sheltered them.
Which kept them still long enough for the Gov. of MA to call up the National Guard to "assist" the 50 people off the wealthy playground and to a Guard base on the mainland.
So much compassion.
BTW...they allocated 125 National Guardsmen to take 50 people from Martha's Vineyard. 2.5 military men for every single unarmed immigrant. If that doesn't scream "compassion" I don't know what does.
LOL. And then they strapped them to the offshore windmills, crucifixion style, for the idle entertainment of Obama, the enlightened one.
They got them poor browns out of town in less than 48 hours.
If that's your idea of a "Sanctuary City" welcoming, feeding and sheltering them, I think it come well short of a solution for the small border towns seeing 100s of thousands of "refugees" coming across.
I supposed you missed clips of a MV matron explaining to a network interviewer saying "We don't have the facilities, we don't have the room." (never minding the dozens of empty 8-10 bedroom mansions during off-season) and then the same woman in a clip two-arm waving farewell and shouting "Te amo! Te amo!" at the departing trucks. This was 30-something hours later. Note that the elite get their way, and with great service.
Glad your cockles were warmed by the fine people of Martha's Vineyard. Mine, not so much.
What color is the sky in your world?
So,e thing tells me the author is too worried about how California or New York spend their funds.
There it is, right there!
"... many of the immigration enforcement schemes embraced by DeSantis and other GOP governors come with hefty price tags, even if their results are sketchy."
Harrigan ignores the savings a state achieves by sending an immigrant that has no money, no skills, doesn't speak English, may have come here for state paid, but normally very expensive, medical care they need (and were promised it for free), needs state paid for housing, food, clothing, transportation and medical care. How about the savings achieved by getting sanctuary cities exposes as no sanctuary, resulting in fewer migrants?
More than anything, Biden's administration shows if you offer enough incentives, they will come, including a lot of criminals fleeing prosecution, criminals looking to make some money as drug mules, and criminals who see the USA as easy pickings. And there's no telling how much our medical costs will rise as we pay for the immigrants' free medical care.
I agree.
But, actually, is cost to send the 50 immigrants to a sanctuary town (Martha's Vineyards) is only a FRACTION of the $12,000,000. Probably cost at MOST $300,000, less than it would cost to keep the immigrants in FL. The $12 million figure is the TOTAL money that may be spent on relocating thousands of immigrants to sanctuary cities across the nation.
You can't expect a current year Reason "journalist" to adhere to any tighter ethical principles than the legacy networks, can you?
This is just an opportunity to fine tune her "concealed disinformation" chops for when she gets a chance at the big leagues.
"Moral, legal, and economic concerns all linger, as DeSantis says there will likely be more migrants bused and flown to blue cities. Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes, are less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans, and are able to fill critical jobs, a fiscally responsible governor would be wise to drop the costly enforcement stunts."
So, Fiona shreds the entire point of her argument with this last paragraph. And she's too dim to notice.
Places like NYC and Chicago CLEARLY need the benefits of having all of these illegals. You should be thanking border states for sharing that wealth.
Seems like putting brown people within walking distance of multi-million dollar summer homes struck a nerve with the Reason Editors.
It's actually amazing how many people are upset with poor brown people coming into rich, white, progressive neighborhoods.
No shit. MSSDSJDS . Migrants seeking sanctuary in declared sanctuary jurisdictions derangement syndrome.
The funny thing is the oblivious doubling and tripling down. Like some 80-yr.-old racist grandpa telling a story about the black folks dulling their rusty razors on the curb before they cut him, the only white kid, up. Everybody with half a brain cell is cringing that it's some of the most racist shit they've ever heard and the entire story is somewhere between 75 and 100% fictional... but Grandpa Simpson's on a rant about his hey days and no one's gonna stop him.
She can't see it because she is undeniably racist.
Did Fiona bother asking El Paso how the numbers are working out for them? They’ve had this issue for months. Hint: it isn’t pretty.
Yeah, if that paragraph were true these progressive mayors and governors would be cheering the fiscal boost, not calling in the military.
What stuck out to me there is the obvious bait-and-switch. After spending the entire piece referring to "migrants", the author switches to "immigrant" in that final statement. That was a deliberate choice. Migrants are not immigrants.
Oranges Man Bad!
+1
ya funny.
Is it legal migrants who offer those benefits or illegal? I will admit 600k for one flight seems bit excessive. Maybe put then in coach next time.
Maybe put then in coach next time.
And take advantage of these people at their most vulnerable? You. Monster!
>>After Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis coordinated two flights last week to relocate dozens of migrants to Martha's Vineyard, critics of the move have
shown their true colors. very, very brightly.
Moral, legal, and economic concerns all linger, as DeSantis says there will likely be more migrants bused and flown to blue cities. Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes, are less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans, and are able to fill critical jobs,
Still saying that after all this, really? Other than the painfully obvious fact that progressives are virtue-signalling hypocrites, if there's one thing these "stunts" by DeSantis and Abbott have shown, it's that illegal immigrants are not ethereal entities that can blend in seamlessly to communities. They require services, resources and infrastructure just like any other person. Further complicated by how they're coming not in the hundreds, but thousands or millions so places near the border get swamped and have been swamped by their arrival for years now. Then even when a place is found somewhere else they can be settled, that new location has to provide them with services, resources and infrastructure now. All of this is done with the mere hope that they'll become more profitable members of American society than lawnmowers at Martha's Vineyard.
If he has wanted to make that point, and make it clearly, he shouldn’t have chosen refugees from Venezuela who already had services waiting for them, which he interfered with in a manner that may well get some of them deported.
He didn't choose anyone. They went voluntarily. And why would they be any more likely to be deported from the concentration camp Massachusetts put them in than they would in Florida?
Can you stop lying just once Mike?
They report that they went voluntarily consequent to lies. What kind of people lie to vulnerable immigrants to facilitate pranks? Other than racist, gay-bashing, superstitious, half-educated, faux libertarian, Republican, antisocial, right-wing misfits, I mean . . .
Carry on, clingers. You betters will let you know just how far and how long, as usual.
They report that they went voluntarily consequent to lies.
No they don't. Sorry but the voices in your head are a result of your not taking your meds. They are not proof of things that haven't occurred.
And they ended up in a concentration camp on Cape Cod. Why do you people love putting people in camps so much?
"Concentration camp"
You are taking your bigoted, obsolete, disaffected conduct and thinking to new lows.
What I love is kicking the bigoted shit out of right-wingers in the culture war, which my side has been winning for a half-century. That makes guys like you losers, which is why you are so cranky, contrarian, desperate, and disaffected.
But there is nothing wrong with you and the other clingers that replacement is not solving.
It is a guarded camp in the middle of nowhere that they can't leave. That is a concentration camp. I didn't say it was a death camp. It is most certainly a concentration camp. Do you just not understand what the words "concentration" and "camp" mean?
Briggs, just mute the guy. He was my second mute and I've missed literally nothing from it.
And you still haven't produced any proof they were tricked into going there. Again, the voices in your head are not evidence of anything except your long running mental issues.
Some of the articles -- Miami Herald, Washington Post, etc. -- are behind paywalls and likely beyond the budgets of the downscale misfits who congregate at this site, but this report seems to be accessible and appears to reproduce a pamphlet containing such lies.
There also are reports the assholes from Florida provided deliberately false addresses for immigrants on official documents so the immigrants would never be notified concerning -- and therefore would be defaulted at -- initial hearings. Conservatives bigots are just lousy, worthless people -- but no problem that replacement is not solving every day!
That all sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theories Rev.
You're a parody account, right?
Thinking a grown adult with an IQ over 80 would write this stuff without being paid or being a parody is almost impossible.
It's democratic fascism, and that makes it okay.
So shitlibs lying to them to fly them to middle American cities with no support mechanism is good, but human beings flying them to shitlib 1% strongholds is bad.
Found the elitist racist. And as always, it's a shitlib.
Are you not happy that those poor brown folk got sent out of evil backward red clingerland into blue heaven where they will be valued, respected, and fulfilled? You should be donating to DeSantis' effort. You Dem dipshits got owned but good. How's your own petard feel? Feel good?
'Deported' is all they are entitled to.
I have to agree. If they were this wonderful boost to the economy, why would we have multiple states calling for actual military intervention (which was actually done here) for relatively small numbers of illegals?
The surface hope is that the census counts will add congressional looters in districts liable to tip electoral votes. Yet some suspect that desperate aliens abroad offer foreign organizers of mischief opportunities for cashing in on Kleptocracy laws against prostitution--and prohibition laws that put a premium on smuggling. American sex workers ought to ponder whether letting mystics export prohibition laws, wreck foreign economies, and thereby herd desperate wretches hither is good for business.
TL:DR summary: If Repub action was not supportive of open borders, the action taken was wrong.
Moral, legal, and economic concerns all linger, as DeSantis says there will likely be more migrants bused and flown to blue cities. Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes, are less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans, and are able to fill critical jobs,
If that is true, then what is the problem here? DiSantis is doing these states a favor and should be thanked. Yet those places are not doing that. It is almost as if the claim that illegal immigrants benefit a community is bull shit and even the author knows it.
More to the point, shouldn't the article be criticizing the officials of Martha's Vineyard for kicking those beneficial migrants off their island?
You would think so. But doing that would require her to actually believe her own bullshit.
I love how that seems to be the forgotten part of the story.
Sending people to place that claims to WANT them there and puts online what they will be offered upon arrival = bad
Sanctuary kicking them out under threat of military force in less than 2 days ... no biggie.
As Sen Cruz pointed out, migrants dying in a trailer was less of a problem than white progs being inconvenienced by diversity.
Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes
Now narrow that down to illegal immigrants, specifically, rather than your non-applicable "immigrants" bullshit.
"less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans"
Waitwaitwait...is she saying that these South Americans are better than black people?? Wow. That's some kind of double-racism, isn't it?
Tell me Fiona, how many illegals are you will to house yourself?
She does not want them in her neighborhood. That is different. It is the job of poor and brown people to accept illegal immigrants. It is Fiona’s job to tell them how to do it.
This is what people like this actually believe. They really are that racist and elitist
Bigoted, disaffected, slack-jawed, right-wing authoritarians are among my favorite culture war casualties. These valueless assholes can't be replaced fast enough.
But they will be replaced. By their betters.
Only you could be so stupid as to defend bigotry while pretending to oppose it.
There is a legitimate problem in border towns due to the sheer number of refugees, and those numbers will only grow as climate change worsens conditions near the equator. Migrant waves cause problems, perhaps most especially reactionary right-wing politics in the receiver state.
But there are solutions to these things in the comprehensive immigration reform that Republicans steadfastly have refused to support for decades because they know they win more elections as these crises stay crises (see above about politics).
So a rational person would blame Republicans for all of this rather than stroke their members in appreciation.
Dude. None of these people are fleeing weather. They are fleeing poverty and dysfunctional governments.
Also, stop denying the most basic of climate science. The equitorial regions have barely any impact from climate change, especially tropical areas that already have 100% humidity and daily rainfall.
The effects of global warming are almost all increased minimums, especially in winter in northern climates. This has been known since 1990.
The problem is that "winter won't be as cold" doesn't sound good on headlines, so the headlines lie about climate refugees from the tropics in order to make people sound better..
You've dropped this line a few times recently, but it's not really in line with current science. Current media hype and policy maybe, but not science...
All observations (and even the BS models) show that the warming which is occurring is occuring in the colder and more temperate regions of the globe and the severity of the changes increases in proportion to distance from the equator. The climate in the equatorial regions isn't changing one bit. Not to mention that the most densely populated parts of the planet are equatorial India, southern China, the Indonesian/Malaysian archipelago, and equatorial Africa.
As mentioned numerous times elsewhere, the overwhelming majority of migrants/refugees are fleeing poverty, crime, war, and crappy governments. The number of people fleeing "climate change" is precisely zero.
Not the main point of my post, but we shall see. There are already water shortages all over the world in equatorial areas and beyond.
Great... Tony now preaches for the Church of the Man-Bear-Pig! Somebody show him the way to RealClimateScience dot com.
"there are solutions to these things in the comprehensive immigration reform that Republicans steadfastly have refused to support for decades "
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Oh, Fuck Off, Fiona ...
FYI, the immigration "stunt" was to declare yourself a "sanctuary city/state/county" while having literally zero intention of ever hosting, helping or aiding a single illegal immigrant, while border states that aren't sanctuary 'Xs' are overwhelmed with hundreds of thousands.
That's the only 'stunt' that's in play here.
If my front lawn has a "no camping" sign in the front yard, and my neighbor has a sign that reads "campers welcome", when a camper shows up on my front lawn and I politely direct him to my neighbor's lawn, that's not a 'stunt'. When my neighbor kicks them out, that means the sign welcoming them was a 'stunt'.
The only thing 'stunted' at Reason seems to be logic.
But DeSantis flew these folks to a lawn a thousand miles away. How many Sanctuary Cities and Counties that that plane fly over so DeSantis could do his little stunt?
Wait, now 'safe third sanctuary city' is a thing?
And why would it matter which sanctuary X he flew them to?
Check one, and only one:
Are you a sanctuary district?
[ ] YES
[ ] NO
If you checked 'YES', then when an illegal immigrant arrives, you may have to provide accommodations for them.
All this proved was the further the upper-middle class white virtue signaling was from the problem, the less likely they were to believe their own bullshit. If there's any 'stunt' on DeSantis' part, it was his masterful ability to prove that iron law.
He didn't "prove" anything. The people of Martha's Vineyard took care of the people, which had nothing to do with Florida, BTW - DeSantis flew people from Texas on the off chance they *might* show up in Florida, conveniently ignoring all the Cubans who continue to wash up on the shores of Florida. Those illegals are OK, apparently.
They took care of them of less than 48 hours before tossing them onto the mainland, never to darken their little lily-white island every again. MV being a sanctuary is nothing more than virtue signalling. They're happy to be a "sanctuary" as long as they don't have to actually be a "sanctuary".
They're a sanctuary for pizza parties before they kick you out. They just couldn't fit all of that on their little virtue signaling lawn signs.
No, the plane came to Florida, and was then sent to MV.
Jesus, you don't even know the facts of the matter and you're opining on it.
So Abbott sent a plane to Florida and Desantis then forwarded it to Marthas Vineyard? That's not what I have been reading, and makes little sense for Abbott to do, given his goals.
DeSantis asked the Cubans if they wanted to go, and they said no. Simple.
Doofus.
The people of Martha's Vineyard took care of the people
By giving them some pizza while they had the Governor call up 125 National Guardsmen to show them more compassion by hauling their asses off the island to a military base on the mainland.
"military base" sounds so much more humane than "concentration camp" or even "chain link cages".
I must note that whatever it's called, it's exactly the kind of facility morons like AOC, Tony, and House Dems referred to as "barbarous cages".
But sure. They "welcomed them".
Cubanos in Miami have spoiler vote clout and dope money. Sadly, Puerto Ricans go to Nueva Jork, votes diluted and made parias once the ianquis find out we don't even have any dope!
Yeah, the poor Cuban refugees. They've never been accepted in Florida have they? At least, on your planet, I assume.
How many Spanish-speaking nations did they fly/bus/hike through to get to the US?
Shitlibs are genetically hypocritical.
So, like asylum claims, you believe that the first sanctuary area one arrives at is where they need to stay?
Nothing wrong with sending them directly where The Money is.
It's a damn shame The Money.... LIED.
That's the only 'stunt' that's in play here.
To be fair, there were actually several stunts in play. Chicago declared themselves a sanctuary city and then started putting immigrants into gang databases and arresting/turning them over to ICE because of their gang affiliation. In their sanctimoniousness, they even went so far as to block ICE from accessing the database but not destroy the database. Because nothing says "sanctuary" like the sanctuary keeping it's own, specific tabs on you.
YES! More Koch-funded libertarian critique of our benefactor Charles Koch's current public enemy #1! 🙂
Keep it coming, Reason. I want to see multiple anti-#DeathSantis articles every single day until the Biden Justice Department puts him in prison for KIDNAPPING and HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
#Resist
Will he share a cell with Joe Bidet, who kidnaps and traffics migrants all over the country?
HINT: It's not "trafficking" unless you plan to use them for anything. Otherwise, Uber would be "Trafficking," which is not the same as "driving in traffic."
I realize English is as difficult for shitlibs as economics and science are, but please try to learn the basics.
OBL is satirizing the leftists who read (and in some cases write for) the site.
OBL is all about the parody.
Traffic is the naygur-wurd mindless prohibitionists invent as a pretext for sending men with service pistols out to make a crime of voluntary production and trade. It was popularized by Southerners to kidnap girls fleeing rape and forced reproduction, killing men fleeing slavery and torture. Far more comfortable to lean back in a wicker chair and mutter against the "fugitive slave traffic" and them "underground railroads" than to overtly defend rapine, outrage and enslavement as moral ideals.
HAHAHAHAHA, Whut?!?!
ah. *chef's kiss*
You know you've nailed the over-the-top-hypocrisy when it sounds insane, and you got it there.
Since immigrants contribute significantly to public finances through taxes, are less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans, and are able to fill critical jobs, a fiscally responsible governor would be wise to drop the costly enforcement stunts."
So DeSantis's "stunt" was helping Martha's Vineyard out. Why all the gnashing of teeth? DeSantis, according to the best logic I can grok here is that he committed a major own-goal.
Actions speak louder than words. People’s actions show that no one actually believes that claim.
Remember, Joe Biden has been flying and busing illegal immigrants to small towns all over the country for almost two years now. Reason has never said a word about that.
Cite?
https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/biden-is-hiding-illegal-immigration-with-secret-flights/
Google is your friend Brian. Try using it sometime.
Whenever an internet midwit shitposter asks "Cite?" in a thread, a fairy in neverland dies.
Midwit? He thinks he's a wit, but he's only half right.
Are you kidding? Unplug the MSNBC.
This. A simple knowledge deficit this significant does not just happen. If he is possessing of any amount of integrity and self respect he needs to question how he came to be left so profoundly ignorant of reality.
The extent to which the Cathedral is freaking out over this suggests to me that it was probably a good idea.
^this
C'mon Reason! You know the rules!
You're not allowed to pick on Republicans without picking on Democrats too! Otherwise you're showing yourself to be hardcore leftists, because only hardcore leftists criticize Republicans without putting some disclaimer in there that Democrats are also pigfuckers.
Also, the very next post on this blog is not criticizing Biden for his student loan bailout. Because we all know Reason would never allow such a blog post.
So that makes a bull shit criticism of DiSantis okay? Is that what passes for thinking in your mind?
Open wider, clinger. Your betters have even more progress -- reason, diversity, education, science, modernity, inclusiveness -- to shove down the whining, bigoted throats of our conservative culture war casualties.
I'll save this one for conversion later. Thanks.
Good point. But pressing originalist LP positions the way Reason used to do back in the 70s and 80s could attract libertarian subscribers and help genuine candidates earn law-changing spoiler vote clout. Then the communo-fascist looters could run back to THEIR looter rags and tell fellow Republicans to quit bullying girls and shooting hippies or lose their mansions and limos. Fellow Dems could stop looting stores and inviting child molesters into the girls' bathroom, else welcome back slavery and felony weed laws.
This whole episode has been a weapons-grade lesson in "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do".
I thought the lesson was that when you complain about illegal immigration you're a racist, but when rich leftists complain about illegal immigration you're still a racist.
The sad thing is, depending on which media you consume and how long you can remember, there isn't a lesson here at all. Everyone who believes the arguments of the left will see the pizzas and confirm their biases that they would do the same thing if an immigrant showed up on their doorstep, and the conservatives who manage a six month memory will see the later military round up of these people and confirm their bias of leftist hypocrisy. The libertarians who realize this was all paid for through federal deficit spending will just have to sit back and eat the inflation of their money supply while shaking their heads. (Yes I realize that it was paid for by interest accrued on federal funds, but let's not kid ourselves of who owns and runs those same financial institutions it accrued interest in.)
I don't know. Watching CBS with my parents this week I saw them trot out two major counterarguments to this:
1) The people were lied to
2) It's a gross political stunt
I'm not sure either are strong counterarguments. The first being one that if true should involve kickback, but doesn't really absolve much in the way of the northern cities' reactions. The second is similar, it's clearly a stunt and I have some discomfort with it for that reason, but once again the reaction stands clear regardless of that fact.
Did you think my point was about details of any particulars or about media bias and confirmation bias and informational echo chambers and attention spans? Not to be rude, I find your comments informative, but if watching cbs news and thinking that there was something there that wasn't confirmation bias of "Republicans lie and use individuals as political tokens", do you have any examples you can remember of cbs news doing this to leftists? Great if you can, but honestly I don't think people participating in the culture war generally do this, and if you are able to retain enough information to do that, how do you not arrive at the libertarian shaking their head conclusion?
DeSantis weaponized the process. Used their slaver financial tactics against them. He used the funds to try to destroy the slaver machinery by assaulting their pseud-moral high ground. This was the best possible use of my stolen tax dollars. Thanks Ron, you da man!
Government creates a crisis, government then makes funds available to "address" the crisis. DeSantis creatively employs those very funds to expose those who have created the crisis.
Yeah, I'm liking this action more and more.
It's an epic two-fer and Fiona's bleatings are only making it better.
This has been surprising to me. If they were lied to, that is one thing, but it really doesn't change the reaction we've seen much.
I am honestly amazed by it. They feel apart so quick, and I still haven't seen a good, reasonable explanation as to why these cities' reactions are reasonable, but the border town taking in magnitudes more are not. I agree with certain comments about feeling weird with treating people like this for an obvious political stunt, but I also can't really think of a reason why it's immoral.
I haven't seen a REASONABLE explanation, but the explanation they're going with seems to be "Border towns get money for this sort of thing, we don't."
I've seen that argument die down, probably because that's an actively insulting retort to places getting fucked and feeds into the point being made.
I loved the "we don't have room at the Inn" but then someone counted 100,000 empty rooms on the island
...and 50 job openings. "Bilingual a plus". Seriously not kidding.
Can't have refugees from communism working for the facilities that are probably hosting the vacationing communists.
Really. If any of these immigrants specifically stated "I want to immigrate to Roma (or Hidalgo, or Rio Grande City)", THEN you could say they were duped.
But their vague and probably unrealistic dream of "moving to America" was NOT IN ANY WAY betrayed by DeSantis here.
less likely to use welfare than similarly situated native-born Americans
In addition to others' points about how ridiculous the broader point here is, I'd point out that this is a highly misleading claim. "similarly situated" means in similar economic conditions. That's the particular similarity. Unsurprisingly, poor people are more likely to use welfare than people who aren't poor. No duh! Now, what is the economic situation of illegal aliens? Hmmmm....would that be poor? Now, you're a writer, and I'm sure maths wasn't your strong point, but adding more poor people can increase the total utilization of welfare, even if the people you're adding are less likely than other poor people to use it.
And, don't all the open border proponents continually tell us that illegal immigrants cannot even get welfare benefits. Which is it? They cannot get benefits, or they DO get benefits, but less than some mystical "other" category.
There's lots of reasons to be highly dubious of this claim. Illegal immigrants rely heavily on identity theft to remain in the US relatively under the radar. An illegal immigrant using the stolen identity of a US citizen will get recorded in this statistic as a US person drawing on these benefits.
There's also the pushback problem. Many genuine refugees fleeing the cruel laws Biden, Reagan, Bush, Hoover and other looters exported to their torture-prone caudillo governments could bring the benefit of education, skills and a righteous desire to declaw totalitarianism. By instead flooding the borders with suicide vest models, paupers, mental cases, beggars, criminal anarchists and undesirables in general, traitorous no-border anarchists help The Prohibitionist Kleptocracy create Monroe Doctrine Gitmos.
What programs are you talking about?
By far our biggest social welfare expenses are for the elderly, and immigrants obviously skew young, and illegal immigrants pay into things like Social Security without drawing on it.
Any way you do the numbers, more immigrants are a boon to social welfare programs, not a drain.
You people keep using this excuse no matter how illogical and unmathematical it is. So we'll assume that when the day comes you figure this out and admit that immigrants aren't a drain on social welfare programs, you'll be pro-immigration, yes?
So how Much of what budget did Mayor Lightfoot use to ship immigrants Chicago has received to the suburbs?
Money the City of Chicago doesn't have and should've gone toward services for their own citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvggevL_1OE
"That would come to $12,300 per head."
So just call them Pell Grant recipients since this came out of federal dollars, and the left should love it, just like student loan forgiveness. An intervention from government in principle isn't different from any other. If this waste of taxpayer money upsets you more than the other, it's because you have progressive biases and are participating in the culture war to the detriment of all of us liberty minded Americans. I wish reason would write articles that promoted individual liberty more than they promote the continuation of the culture war.
Easy for folks in N'amsha to talk, as tourists with visas bring in loads of Canadian dollars. But Reason does publish defenses of individual rights in the main. Fiona wants Nazi submarines to land saboteurs unquestioned, and Bund Deutscher Mädchen gal from Hitler's (and Biden's) church wants men with guns forcing women to reproduce, but those infiltrators are outliers. We need to find someone to hire them away... far away...
Man you guys are really losing your minds over this aren't you?
No one fucking cares, not even liberals. Journo shitlibs are the only people who give a damn.
When the journolist command that they care, the reason staff cares. The reason staff exists in a prog beltway fart cloud that is totally removed from reality.
Normally I have to read Taibbi to get such a wonderful visual. Well done!
It's easier to sneak into this country and stay illegally then it is to start a business. $12k per person (if true) was too expensive. Bus them next time, the issue needs more attention. There over 5000 fence jumpers PER DAY. I have little sympathy for immigrants who want to jump ahead in line of those who are following the rules.
Well, it was kind of a silly stunt, and probably kind of shady. But damn is it funny.
I agree it is funny, until you realize that girl-bullying Trumpanzees can enlist all the support they need for totalitarianism by pointing to legal cretins like Fiona as "the" opposition and alternative. Here Reason is undermining respect for rights and freedom by paying someone to encourage wretches and terrorists to sneak in uninspected--AND CAUSING VOTERS TO VOTE AGAINST OUR CANDIDATES!
You are not as clever as you think you are.
or, sarcasm?
This had more entertainment value than the last 3 Marvel movies combined, for a fraction of the cost. Entertainment value per dollar is actually pretty good.
The border states have been complaining for more than a decade that they're being overrun with the pace of illegal immigration. The only response they've gotten from the cosmopolitan political class is "Shut the hell up and deal with it. Because you're a racist if you have any problem with unlimited immigration." And, yes, that cosmopolitan political class includes the staffers here at Reason. Well, if it's not a legitimate problem, there shouldn't be any complaints about moving these immigrants to sanctuary jurisdictions. But, even a tiny sliver (I believe NYC has had as many sent to them as a border town with a population of 35,000 has had to deal with in a single week.) of what the border states have to deal with on a daily basis is getting the cosmopolitan left in a lather about a crisis. Until the cosmopolitan class is ready to have a conversation that consists of anything more than insults and passing the buck on the consequences of their policies, I'd recommend the border states continue shipping the migrants on to them.
Lysander Spooner, often smeared as an anarchist, admitted that "it is impossible that a government should have any rights, except such as the individuals composing it had previously had, as individuals. They could not delegate to a government any rights which they did not themselves possess. They could not contribute to the government any rights, except such as they themselves possessed as individuals." Individuals DO have and can delegate the power to order trespassers out of their home, off of their lawn, ergo, back across the border like any other gate-crashers.
Brilliant move by the governor! And the progressives didn’t disappoint, shipped them off as soon as possible!!!
Another rousing meeting of Libertarians For Authoritarian, Bigoted, Cruel Immigration Policies And Practices has been convened at a website that attracts a remarkable concentration of disaffected, faux libertarian misfits and downscale, right-wing bigots.
I agree it was cruel to send them to MV those people are racist.
Damn Arty, you're going to need a year's supply of cheese to go with all that whine. I haven't seen you post this much in a while. It sounds like one of your better's (Ron DeSantis) really struck a nerve with you. But that's ok, disaffected, downscale, left-wing bigots are MY favorite culture war casualties. For Christ's sake you are a ponderous one note samba.
How many illegals are YOU =personally- housing and employing?
And please name any nation that allows unfettered access to illegal immigration.
We'll wait....
This is not an unfair challenge. Even anarco-communist infiltrators admit they have a right to refuse to let strangers enter their homes unannounced through windows or break down doors. Possessed of that power, they may delegate it to a legitimate government to stop missiles, bombers, suicide Saracens, saboteurs and parasites from sneaking across the border uninspected. Fiona should step outside and burn her passport, THEN tell us which sneaks to invite in.
Every dollar spent on shipping migrants out of the state is several dollars saved in state spending. So, DeSantis is doing exactly what a fiscally responsible governor ought to do.
BINGO!
Apparently having open borders is 'Responsible Fiscal Policy'
So Fiona speculates that a 600k payment for services is the cost of a single flight from Florida to Massachusetts. Of course she has not seen the contract and has no idea what services the vendor has agreed to. So she pulls this out of her ass because Florida Man Bad. In fact Florida Man is promising many more flights to sanctuary cities. Seems likely to me that this vendor is looking for a long term piece of business and the 600k was a down payment. That's the way government contracts worked last l was involved with one.
Look Fiona. You're young and ambitious and good for you. Working at Reason beats mailing out resumes and zoom interviews. Good on you. But Reason has given you the shitiest job on the roster. You have to defend the indefensible and make shit up to support absurd arguments. Every Reason editor has beclowned themselves and in the process destroyed the credibility of the publication over the past six years. Get out while you still can.
Fi, how big is your home, and how many rooms are you going to reserve for ILLEGAL 'immigrants'?
Put your money where your mouth is.
I. Dare. You.
But you won't, you have neither the moral nor physical courage to do so, nor the ethical fortitude.
She's writing for Reason.
Probably hot racking somewhere in Cleveland Park.
Florida is not a border state, water on three sides and Alabama and Georgia on the forth. How did all those illegals get to Florida? Did they walk across Texas, New Orleans Mississippi, Alabama and maybe part of Georgia to get to Florida? No. Biden flew them there. Reason did not worry about that expense or call that a stunt. Even the fact checkers lied, they said Biden didn't fly them their because he was not the pilot. By the same logic DeSantis didn't bus the illegals to Martha's Vineyard because he didn't drive the bus!!!!
Reason is Biden's little bitch propaganda machine.
How did all those illegals get to Florida? Did they walk across Texas, New Orleans Mississippi, Alabama and maybe part of Georgia to get to Florida? No. Biden flew them there.
No, they "voluntarily" got on the planes after being told by someone paid from Florida dollars that there would be assistance waiting for them in Boston, only for them to be surprised to end up in Martha's Vineyard where no one was expecting them.
"Florida is not a border state, water on three sides"
Water, being an impenetrable barrier to travel, stops anyone from outside the US entering the US via Florida.
The readers aren't accepting the propaganda messaging. This is the 4th Reason article attempting to convince us that it was unacceptable to send migrants to MV. The takes have only gotten less convincing.
I thought the move was brilliant. Gate-crashers at baseball and football games could also be shipped off to soccer games in, say, Venezuela, and come back suddenly tickled to be in These States. HEY! Someone at Utne Reader or Tikkun, offer Fiona a better gig, dammit!
Co.pared to the inflation reduction act?
Co.pared to shipping hundreds of thousand of illegal immigrants across the country?
Compared to leaving billions in Afghanistan?
Compared to 40 billion - in one go - in Ukraine?
Why doesn't Reason.com just come out and admit they are Leftists not Libertarians. Ron de Santis is a CHAMPION of Liberty and most of the things Libertarians say they want.
Because the media is already saturated with leftist opinion rags. Giving up the game means giving up the funding they get for delivering the messages desired by their benefactors.
There is simply no market for another Vox, barely a market for the original.
Thank you for using numbers in your discussion. Yes, $12 million is a lot to spend for transport. However, you forget to mention how much money is spent to take care of illegal immigrants who are not able to take care of themselves. How much does the USA spend on feeding, clothing, sheltering, schooling, and all other benefits for all illegal immigrants?
I recall a time when, as in Ayn Rand's "We The Living," looter satrapies had sentries shoot anyone trying to leave across the border. If The Kleptocracy MUST keep sending goons, cash and hidden persuaders to urge banana republic caudillos to shot their people over plant leaves, the next logical step is to send them guns with which to shoot anyone attempting to leave. Is this what antilibertarian infiltraitors are trying to accomplish?
It was apparently the hope of the empathetic and open-hearted libtards in our self-proclaimed sanctuariy cities, that the harsh desert trek would weed out those in most need of medical care.
Is it not working out that way? You hate to see that kind of compassion misdirected. Hopefully the high death rates, even if not efficiently distributed, will cheer them up.
Fiona has made an effort, but is as hopeless at impersonating a libertarian as Knapp, Boothead, Prick or any of the other Trojans and saboteurs sent to Reason and LNC to make voters hate our guts. Surely there is another magazine out there eager to hire a terrorist-enabler or gate-crashing pauper-importer. DeSantis, like Abbot, is a total fascist Trumpanzee on birth control, prohibition and practically everything EXCEPT immigration. The LP would do well to torch anarcho-communist planks and get used to Constitutional borders and increasing vote share.
Boy, this really pissed y'all off. Getting a new article every day. It was of course a stunt, but it was a great one, an illustrative one, a revealing one. One I support whole-heartedly.
Me too. It revealed that Republicans are terminally online racist sociopaths and the coastal libs are sane and compassionate. I know who I want running things.
Well, to me it revealed the elitism and NIMBY and hypocrisy of "sanctuary city" inhabitants. Two countries.
But that's not what happened. You wanted it to happened, but it didn't.
Martha's Vineyard was picked for symbolic reasons, not because it had the capacity to take care of 50 people with no resources without so much as a call-ahead.
Wait - sanctuary jurisdictions set the rules of "we don't cooperate on immigration issues." A cooperative call ahead would have violated that rule.
And they provided that sanctuary as promised.
For a day. Yup. Long enough to virtue signal and then wash their hands of it.
I do find it funny how quick you are to defend uber-white, hyper-wealthy, upper-class capitalists in this matter. I wonder why that is? Oh right, they are progressives.
It's almost like political affiliation is more important than principles. There's a huge lesson to be learned there.
You're requiring of people actions that wouldn't have served the migrants, who had court dates on Monday. In states DeSantis didn't send them to because he wanted to make a political statement and then upset their plans to follow the law.
You said no advance call was a problem. If the conservative advance called a pol who said he wasn't going to cooperate with immigration laws, that conservative pol is a pussy and a cuck and should be thrown out on his ear.
One of the WEALTHIEST geographical regions in the U.S. didn't have "the capacity to take care of 50 people with no resources without so much as a call-ahead."?!?!
Yeah, I'm not buying THAT bullshit.
Do you even brain, Tony?
When you can’t just say “I am a bigot, and as many brown people as possible should be forcibly expelled,” you defend Republican politicians for their every retarded FOX News bait stunt because you know, once they’re president, they’ll give you your ethnic cleansing.
It’s exhausting. I never feel the need to talk in circles around my own beliefs. Why do the racists? If your beliefs aren’t tolerated in polite company, why do you hold them?
Oh look, Tony pushing racist canards again. Who would've thought. I agree though, watching people like you constantly trying to stoke racism and create racism out of thin air in order to simplistically label those you disagree with as being racist is very exhausting.
Luckily, most of the public is seeing through this garbage framing that people like you engage in.
So Ron DeSantis will be calling for the expulsion and humiliation of Ukrainian refugees?
Probably not as the Ukrainian situation is quite different than the issue with the constant amount of immigration from the southern border with little to no claim to asylum. I mean, you don't see DeSantis sending members of the Somali community to other states.
But I would assume the answer would be yeah, if migration from Ukraine was constant, not the result of a war, and continued for a long period of time with the federal government do little to stop it, he would be doing the same thing with Ukrainians.
But since that doesn't fit your racist desires for a race war and to feel self-important with delusional framing of your opponents, you won't accept such a reality.
But the United States needs more immigrants right now. There is a labor shortage. People living here simply don't want to do some of the lower-skilled work that's available.
If immigration is always a problem to you, every year, regardless of economic conditions, but you only really care when it's coming from South America, whose living conditions you have deemed good enough for some reason even though they're literally fleeing for their lives, then you tell me what the fuck I'm supposed to think.
You think these mouth-breathing idiots who go to Trump rallies are worried about.... oh, what was your issue again? "Cultural assimilation"? You just admitted to racism being your issue, dude.
Great. Then increase legal immigration and decrease the difficultly of becoming a US citizen. And do it in an organized and substantive way so that when migrants come here, they are incorporated into the culture and have the tools to succeed here.
But I don't only care about immigration from South America. Again, that's just a false claim you make in order to smear me as a racist. It's you lazy anti-intellectualism and insecurity doing that.
And I didn't say anything about Trump supporters. That's just you again imposing straw man arguments and deflections. I would agree that many Trump supporters are led to believe falsities about illegal immigrants. That doesn't take away the need for proper and consistent immigration law and enforcement.
And I didn't say anything about race. Only you are doing that. You really do have your knee-jerk "racist!" response down, I'll give you that.
Then you, I, and all Democrats all agree on what the policy should be. Glad we could come to this understanding at last.
Yet Democrats don't agree with that. That's a huge part of the problem.
You really should try think beyond your tribal allegiance and groupthink. It does nothing for your actual understanding of the world. And it may also help you grow out of race hustling and your constant pseudo-intellectualism.
There are elements of the cult doctrine that tell him he DOES understand what the people he is told are his "opponents" think. Even when he demonstrably doesn't and has to project straw man and literally hateful falsehoods onto them to justify his certainties.
If it weren't for the internet, I would think such people were rare, and possibly mentally ill.
It's admittedly difficult to know what Trumpist ideology is, if it is anything other than "Heil Trump."
Democrats have sensible immigration policy in their portfolio the same way they have sensible policy for everything else. It just happens to be a party all the sensible people have sorted into.
We've had a great long lesson on the perils of the American cultural assumption that you don't need to be educated to do complex tasks like governing.
Or perhaps you can say "we have immigration limits for a reason. The same reason these large, wealthy cities are demanding military assistance for relatively miniscule numbers of peoples". Just like America cannot police the world. We cannot support the poor of the world. We can only help so many.
I want the law upheld. People who get visas and follow the law, great. Those who jump the line and break the law, I want properly punished. The Son of Sam principle states that you cannot profit from a crime. So, let's send them back where they came from.
The government refuses to do this. In fact, the current administration actively encourages this lawbreaking.
It's easy to point fingers and throw out slurs. Actually fixing the problem is a different issue.
Now that this political stunt has served it's purpose. We should stop the bussing and plane flights. However, as a state government protesting against federal policy to ignore the law, you cannot claim that it was ineffective.
Don't bother. Tony will just accuse you of being a racist and play the ignorant card by asking you disingenuous questions like "why should I hate migrants?"
Federal immigration law is broken. Democrats tried to fix it and Republicans refused to keep the crisis going so they'd have a perennial, racist, populist hysteria machine since they have so precious few real ideas.
What is the Republican immigration proposal that Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbot are asking for? Do you know? Do they?
Republicans racist and evil, Democrats virtuous and good.
You're lack of intellect is just tragic.
Everyone I disagree with is evil and racist. There. Now I don't actually have to know anything or understand issues.
You ever get embarrassed constantly utilizing anti-intellectualism?
This would be a trenchant insult if you didn't just admit down below that your problem was you don't want to live near people with a different culture from you, even if their entire goal is to join your culture.
But that's not what I said. You just disingenuously frame it that way in order to avoid the actual substance of the discussion. You really are a pseudo-intellectual by engaging in false contextualization and overly-simplistic reductionism.
Seems like you said that Spanish-speaking immigrants are uniquely incapable of assimilating into mainstream American culture. Why this is so, you don't explain.
But it's not true if you know any young people. Young people are not only assimilating different cultures (and sexual orientations and gender identities and so forth), half of them already are from Spanish-speaking cultures.
This country was originally owned by brown people, and to brown people it will return. It's all over but the crying.
Please point out where I said Spanish speaking immigrants are uniquely incapable of assimilating into American culture?
And it's actually quite the opposite as American culture already has significant Spanish and Latin American influence.
It really is impressive the hate you have for white people and the infatuation you have with stoking racial hatred.
I think culture is whatever a group of people are doing. Not only has America not been around long enough to have very deeply entrenched cultural practices, it is a culture made almost exclusively of a large number of recent immigrant cultures, and it's currently in the 21st century, where technology has done far more in a few decades to change culture than anything else. So I don't know what you're talking about when you talk about American culture. A Venezuelan and an American living today would have far more similar cultures than an American from today and an American from 50 years ago.
Actually, America has a very vibrant culture, you just pretend otherwise as your political narrative is simply based on disliking the US. It's lazy at best, and purposefully dishonest at worst.
And I see you avoided pointing out where I said Spanish speaking immigrants are uniquely incapable of assimilating into American culture. Since you made that up, I'm not surprised though.
Trump country does not have a vibrant culture. I'm as culturally relativistic as you like, but woof. There are more objectively identifiable pathologies than there are distinct or old cultural practices.
Interesting that he won't quote what he claims you said.
But he deflects and moves goal-posts like a Cat D-9....
And that will make it a third-world country, after white people made it the leader of the world. Congrats on what you have wrought, shitty equity is always the end result of "equity."
I can always count on someone to come along to stop beating around the bush.
"Seems like you said that Spanish-speaking immigrants are uniquely incapable of assimilating into mainstream American culture."
Another claim that needs a supporting quote, or a retraction.
This seems to be a pattern....
"...after white people made it the leader of the world."
Jesus Titty-fucking Christ, seriously?
GTFO with that bullshit.
"Seems like you said that Spanish-speaking immigrants are uniquely incapable of assimilating into mainstream American culture."
Another claim that needs a supporting quote, or a retraction.
"This would be a trenchant insult if you didn't just admit down below that your problem was you don't want to live near people with a different culture from you..."
QUOTE that part, or retract your lie.
Why can't you just say you are communist and anything that furthers the goal of destroying the U.S. is all well and good? You defend Democrat politicians for every retarded thing they say on CNN and MSNBC. If you hate white people, just come out and say it.
Considering the economic problem in the US right now is a labor shortage, it is not the case that too much immigration is a problem. Too little immigration is the problem.
But there is never an economic condition under which you won't say that South American and Mexican immigration isn't a problem, is there? It's been a problem during recessions and booms, high unemployment and labor shortages. It's always a problem for you. So, explain what the problem is.
Drain on resources, increased crime, establishment of a permanent underclass (I know this is a huge demand for Dems and corporate Repubs), lack of cultural assimilation, and fragmented societies.
But the main issue is cultural assimilation. Without it, countries separate and falter. The reason that the US is the most diverse and most tolerant and accepting of all countries is the integrating of many cultures into one overall culture that maintains itself independently while allowing for all cultures to shine and express themselves. The whole melting pot concept.
Without this, societies become separate, distrusting, and fragmented.
So immigrants aren't a drain on resources or the cause of increased crime, and if they's a permanent underclass, you can just give them more money. So most of your excuses are lies.
But at least you get to the real reason, although explained in a completely contradictory way. It's bad to import other cultures, starting now, because America is such a great melting pot?
I think as a libertarian it's none of your business what culture anyone else practices or declaring which culture is the correct one.
By the way, are you going to have even a moment's pause about Ukrainian refugees and their foreign culture?
Actually, they are a drain on resources and do result in increased crime. And sure, you can pay them more, but you'd need to talk to the corporate Repubs and your fellow Dems to rectify that issue. So no, I don't lie. But that's the kind of rebuttal I would expect from you.
And yes, cultural acceptance of the practices of the United States is quite important. Just like cultural acceptance of the practices of other countries like France and South Korea are important in order to maintain a cohesion within the country. And the US has done a great job historically by incorporating people into the US culture while also allowing for and very much embracing the celebration and practice of other cultures. Again, this is why the US is the most diverse and tolerant nation to ever exist.
And again, I see that you falsely re-frame my argument in order to straw man me. That's fine. I mean, that's what you do when you can't actually address the substance of what was said.
But I will state it again, we import all cultures and have developed a society that accepts those cultures, participates with those cultures, and allows those cultures to shine and flourish all while having an overarching US culture. You can try to paint that as a bad thing with simplistic claims of racism or what have you, but it doesn't make your claims true.
And I'm not a libertarian. And I'm not saying which culture is the best. This isn't a game. It may be for you, but in reality it's not. The idea is that the US culture has to reign supreme is simply a societal cohesion that all countries need in order to exist. And sure, I get that you don't believe in any borders or counties, but that has no basis in reality or human nature. That's just delusional wish-casting. Instead, governments and cultures have to work within the bounds of reality and human nature. And this requires countries to have stable and cohesive systems and cultures.
And of course there would be pause with Ukrainian refugees to make sure they properly assimilate into the US culture. Though we do have a lot of evidence that happens as Ukrainian refugees have assimilated into Polish, German, French, Swedish, etc cultures apparently quite well. But no matter where migrants come from, cultural assimilation is important. Skin color is only important to people like you who like to foment hate and racism.
That said, I know you struggle to find racism and bigotry wherever you can, as it is required by your political leanings. But at the end of the day, those focused on racism and bigotry are engaging in anti-intellectualism on a lazy scale in order to avoid understanding the subject matter at hand. It's simply a way to not have to learn and understand the complexities of arguments and life if you can paint with broad righteous brushes. And that's really all you do.
And it's too bad, as it's clear that you are quite intelligent. But your personal issues do wonders to cloud out that intelligence, which results in your incessant focus on race rather than reality.
You brought up cultural assimilation. It was the only justification for immigration restrictions you gave that wasn't bullshit according to the data.
And if we're pretending that Republicans aren't appealing to racism in their anti-immigrant rhetoric, you're the one who doesn't know much about human nature. Migrant waves cause tension wherever and whenever they happen. I think liberals should consider this reality from a political point of view, and they are, which is why Democrats hate to touch this issue too. But the worse actors are Republicans who are telling lies about immigrants, insist on calling them the most dehumanizing names possible, and throw them in camps as an alternative to voting yes on immigration reform.
I don't disagree with you about the importance of culture. Quite to the contrary, I think culture is what drives people's politics almost to the total exclusion of rational motivations.
But the culture of this continent is unique in that its original culture was obliterated relatively recently and replaced by nothing but immigrants ever since.The more specifically you define American culture, the more problematic it becomes. Let's assume it means English. Easy enough. Most people learn English anyway, especially if they live here. Does it include a particular religion? Ways of celebrating birthdays? It's all rather a hodgepodge, and the parts that are recognizably American are pretty shitty and mangled by capitalism anyway.
Actually, my other justifications are correct as well. Again, you just claim lies because you have a false narrative to uphold.
And Repubs aren't great at all on messaging, there's no doubt about that. And Dems aren't great on messaging either. Both resort to hyperbole, hysteria, and condescension. Basically what you do, ironically.
And there is an American culture. I know you are part of the white people ruined the country crowd, but boiling the argument down to overly-simplistic reductionism like you normally do is once again intellectually dishonest and based on some weird anger-filled personal problems that you have.
Defining American culture is actually quite easy. It's only hard for people like you who do all they can to try and paint this country and it's history as some unique evil.
But your arguments are best reserved for angsty 18 year old's trying to show how smart they are by critiquing the US and the west. It's all fun in undergrad liberal arts colleges, but, in reality, the intellectual and academic substance is thin at best.
Makes me want to ask you if you like apples.
Well, the fact that immigrants are good for the welfare state is just very simple math. They're the equivalent of a rise in the birth rate of natives. Or should we force everyone to have abortions to save our precious octogenarian money, somehow? You're the one using nonsensical data to promote atrocious stereotypes, that somehow immigrants come here to loaf about. No, they come here to do the shitty jobs "white culture" looks down its nose at, and our GDP thanks them.
I could understand your argument for preserving an American culture if it were 1,000 years old, but it's only a couple hundred years old, much of that a society built on genocide and slavery (true). That's the abject obliteration of cultures American and African, so I guess white American culture has a great big oopsie at the core of it. Then there's the fact that technology not only changed all cultures for all times in the 20th century, technology reinvents culture every decade or so. We live totally differently from how our parents did, so what the fuck are you even talking about?
After all that, you can can abide a quinceañera.
"Considering the economic problem in the US right now is a labor shortage..."
Good. Close the border. Let the 'shortage" drive wages up for Citizens and LEGAL Immigrants, who will then fill those jobs very nicely.
WHILE we do THAT, we can FIX the LEGAL Immigration problems, and THEN consider how many more new people we need.
P.S. You'll tell us where to get the water for the ones who want to stay in the drought-ridden Western U.S., right?
Any minute now, I'm sure.
All the people on my political team want to do is fix the immigration problem.
Republicans won't let them. It's as simple as that.
Let's see.... who was labeled the "Deporter In Chief"?
If you are implying that all ILLEGAL Immigrants are "brown people", the "bigot" is in your mirror.
Re-gifting is an American tradition.
O-oh say can you sEEEE!
Let's see. Massachusetts called up 125 National Guards troops to take care of 50 illegal immigrants who recently arrived at Martha's Vineyard. That's 2.5 Americans now employed per immigrant.
I think we've seeing the newest Biden Build Back Better jobs program. Prosperity for all!
Is that too many? How do you know?
Isn't it just a number some bimbo on TV said and told you to be mad about?
See, it's responses like this that show you are not a serious intellectual.
Thank you for demonstrating your stunning inability to reason. If 50 nonviolent people who can legally go where they wish (they cannot be detained without cause), why would that require ANY National Guards personnel?
You discredit yourself FAR more skillfully than anyone else can do.
Well done!
Probably because they had been traveling for days from a shithole country and needed help.
Then the people who live in one of the wealthiest geographical regions of the U.S. should have sheltered, fed and employed them, right?
There is surely a middle ground between hippie communism and less hospitality than any religion or culture demands of its worst enemies.
We're all in this together, on this tiny planet, one precious intelligent species, perhaps unique in the universe. You have no absolute right to anything, let along a piece of this planet and its resources. You have to share, and that's just how it has to be, because you're not a god, even if you are white.
I still don't see why the people of Martha's Vineyard couldn't shelter these people; they have thousands of empty houses and vast country estates. Instead, they had them picked up by the military and moved into camps.
Spoken like the despicable fascist you are.
an Immigration Stunt Isn't 'Responsible Fiscal Policy'
It certainly is for Florida. Why should Florida bear the brunt of the illegals, Florida is not a border state, Biden flew the illegals to Florida, why isn't Reason complaining about that waste of money and fiscal policy. What will 4 million illegals cost the Federal government, state governments, county governments and local municipalities? They will all need housing, food assistance, utility assistance, language education, job skill training, their children education. Some will never get off the welfare system. Never mind the criminals and terrorist that will end up in our jails and the people that will need drug treatment intervention from the fentanyl or the people indentured into slavery. Inviting 4 million plus illegals to violate our border is not 'Responsible Fiscal Policy'.
We owe the vile scum nothing but one bullet each.
Line them up against the wall and shoot the filth. That will put an end to this nonsense right quick.
Thank you for demonstrating your stunning inability to reason. If 50 nonviolent people who can legally go where they wish (they cannot be detained without cause), why would that require ANY National Guards personnel?
You discredit yourself FAR more skillfully than anyone else can do.
Well done!