Biden and Trump Stoke Division While Complaining About It

The current and former presidents offer dueling but equally apocalyptic takes on this fall’s elections.

Last week in Philadelphia, President Joe Biden gave "the most vicious, hateful, and divisive speech ever delivered by an American president." So Donald Trump proclaimed at a rally in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, on Saturday before proceeding to outdo Biden.

The two speeches—one decrying "MAGA Republicans" who "represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic," the other condemning "the radical left lunatics" who are "trying to destroy our country"—mirrored each other in ways neither man would be willing to admit. Both portrayed the other side as not just mistaken but malevolent and warned that its victory this fall would doom everything Americans hold dear.

Biden prefaced his attack on Trump and his followers by drawing a distinction between "MAGA Republicans" and "mainstream Republicans," whom "I've been able to work with." But even as he averred that "not even the majority of Republicans are MAGA Republicans," Biden warned that "the Republican Party today is dominated, driven, and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans," who pose "a threat to this country."

Trump's supporters, Biden explained, "do not respect the Constitution," "do not believe in the rule of law," and "do not recognize the will of the people." They "promote authoritarian leaders" and "fan the flames of political violence," which threatens "the very soul of this country."

MAGA Republicans "refuse to accept the results of a free election," which makes them "a clear and present danger" to "our democracy." They "don't understand what every patriotic American knows: You can't love your country only when you win." They "embrace anger," "thrive on chaos," and "live not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies." They are "committed" to "destroying American democracy" and "determined to take this country backwards."

Trump complained that Biden was "trying to demonize half of the population"—more than half, actually, since Trump still insists that he won the 2020 presidential election by a wide margin. Referring to the number of votes he received that year, Trump accused Biden of "vilifying 75 million citizens—plus another probably 75 to 150 [million], if we want to be accurate about it—as threats to democracy and as enemies of the state."

Trump's rejoinder: I know you are, but what am I? "The enemy of the state is him," Trump said. "The danger to democracy comes from the radical left, not from the right."

Although Trump claimed to be dismayed by Biden's "hatred and anger," his remarks in Wilkes-Barre were not exactly full of sweetness and light. "Radical Democrats," he explained, are "sick, sinister, and evil people" who are "trying to destroy our country" because they "hate our country."

Democrats are "against God, guns, oil, law enforcement, voter ID, tax cuts, regulation cuts, the Constitution, and…our Founding Fathers," Trump said. Their agenda is so repellant that "the way they win is to cheat in elections"—the conviction that led Trump to embrace one wild election-fraud claim after another.

Although those sore-loser excuses are at the core of the "extreme MAGA ideology" that Biden perceives, Trump insists the movement is about more than his vanity and lust for power. "The 2020 election was rigged, and now our country is being destroyed by people who got into office through cheating and through fraud," he said in Wilkes-Barre. "This battle is not about me. This is a struggle for the very fate of our republic."

Biden agrees, offering his own apocalyptic take on the next election. While he is obviously right that accepting electoral defeat is a crucial part of democracy, he has his own reasons for exaggerating the imminence of the republic's demise.

Trump and Biden also agree that Americans should be united against division. Voting for Democrats, Biden said in Philadelphia, means choosing "hope and unity and optimism" over "fear, division, and darkness." Democrats "think they can divide us," Trump said in Wilkes-Barre, "but they can't."

Why is the other side always so divisive?

© Copyright 2022 by Creators Syndicate Inc.

Comments

[Adans smith]

The progressive left is the biggest danger to this country. And Joe Biden is an angry, senile old man with the power of his office. That's pretty damn scary also. Just their 'energy' policies are enough to do serious damage to the country.

[m40195971]

He’s not that senile. He’s stupid. He’s evil. He’s a lying ideologue.

Don’t give excuses for him. He should own it all.

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[Mike Laursen]

There is about a two and half year difference in Biden’s and Trump’s ages. I assume you have similar concerns about a geriatric like Trump.

[justme]

trump was a great president but he's too damned old. no one that old should be in any elected office. period. we need a constitutional amendment to set a maximum age for potus & congress.

[ravenshrike]

When Trump can't off the cuff hold his own during a speech, even if you think his points are those of an idiot while doing so, then it will be time to worry about Trump. Biden couldn't do that before he was elected president, let alone now.

[Mother's Lament]

Joe Biden: "tonight, I've come to this place where it all began to speak as plainly as I can to the nation about the threat we face, about the power we have in our own hands to meet these threats...
Too much of what's happening in our country today is not normal...
Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic...
there's no question that the Republican Party today is dominated, driven and intimidated by Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans. And that is a threat to this country. These are hard things...
MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution, do not believe in the rule of law. They did not recognize the will of the people and refuse to accept the results of a free election.
And they're working right now, as I speak in state after state, to give power to the side elections in America. To partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers and undermine democracy itself.
MAGA forces are determined to take this country backwards, backwards to an America where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love.
They promote authoritarian leaders and they fanned the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, the rule of law, the very soul of this country.
And look at the mob that stormed the United States Capitol on January 6, brutally attacking law enforcement, not as insurrectionists placing a dagger at the throat of our democracy, but they're looked at as patriots.
They see their MAGA failure to stop a peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election as preparation for the 2022 and 2024 elections.
MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution, do not believe in the rule of law. They did not recognize the will of the people and refuse to accept the results of a free election.
And they're working right now, as I speak in state after state, to give power to the side elections in America. To partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers and undermine democracy itself.
MAGA forces are determined to take this country backwards, backwards to an America where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love.
They promote authoritarian leaders and they fanned the flames of political violence that are a threat to our personal rights, to the pursuit of justice, the rule of law, the very soul of this country.
And look at the mob that stormed the United States Capitol on January 6, brutally attacking law enforcement, not as insurrectionists placing a dagger at the throat of our democracy, but they're looked at as patriots.
They see their MAGA failure to stop a peaceful transfer of power after the 2020 election as preparation for the 2022 and 2024 elections.
They tried everything last time to nullify the votes of 81 million people.
This time, they're determined to succeed in thwarting the will of the people.
While the threat to American democracy is real, I want to say as clearly as we can: We are not powerless in the face of these threats. We are not bystanders in this ongoing attack on democracy.
There are far more Americans, from every background and belief, who reject extreme MAGA ideology than those who accept it. It is within our power. Folks, it's in our hands, yours and mine, to stop the assault on American democracy.
I believe America is at an inflection point, one of those moments that determine the shape of everything that's to come after. And now America must choose to move forward or to move backwards. To build a future or obsess about the past. To be a nation of hope and unity and optimism or a nation of fear ... and of darkness.
I agree Republicans have made their choice. They embrace anger. They thrive on chaos. They live not in the light of truth but in the shadow of lies...
MAGA Republicans look at Americans and see carnage and darkness and despair. They spread fear and lies, lies both for profit and power.

Donald Trump: “Joe Biden came to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to give the most vicious, hateful and divisive speech ever delivered by an American president.....He's an enemy of the state,"

Jacob Sullum: "They said the same thing, both sides!"

[R Mac]

It’s amazing “libertarians” don’t understand the difference between attacking your political opponents in power with words, and attacking regular people who don’t agree with the ruling party with words, federal law enforcement and bureaucracy, and corporate media, Silicon Valley, and the banking system.

[Homple]

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

...Upton Sinclair

[Mother's Lament]

*chef's kiss*

That describes 80% of the articles here.

[R Mac]

Can we get this quote on the Reason masthead?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

It is also very easy to get a man to "understand" something when his salary does not depend on it.

- Reverse Sinclair

[ravenshrike]

Shouldn't that be Downstone Sinclair?

[MasterThief]

Also interesting that a "libertarian" took the stance that the one who is in power and directing the state against half the population is better than the one talking about reducing government

[Mike Laursen]

Who is this person talking about reducing government?

[Octavio Feltmann]

Donald Trump. The guy who eliminated more regulations than any president since Carter and didn't start any multitrillion dollar foreign wars for the first time in 40 years.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

This

[chemjeff radical individualist]

That speech was Biden's version of "mean tweets".

I was told over and over again that mean tweets don't matter, only actions matter.

Funny how that standard only holds true when a certain person was doing the tweeting.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

You stupid Fvck, he is telling social media companies who to ban. And raiding his political enemies homes.

[R Mac]

Lying Jeffy knows all this, and more. But he’s here to lie for the left.

[MrBoz]

Youre trying to compare Trump tweeting that Rosie ODonnell is fat, to Biden standing at the gates of hell in all the magestry of a supreme leader with brownshirt silouettes behind him calling half of America "enemies"? Youre a clown.

[Mike Laursen]

He didn’t use the word “enemy” or “enemies”. As I’ve discussed several times in the past few days, your repetition of that inaccurate quote reveals that you are getting your talking points from right-wing media.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Gentlemen, we cannot ignore the fact that Mike "White MIkey" Laursen hangs out around playgrounds, lures young children into a windowless van, penetrates their anuses or vaginas depending on the sex gender identity of the child until he achieves sexual climax, then slits their throats, exsanguinates the corpses, drinks the recovered blood, then takes the bodies out to the woods and ritualistically sacrifices them as a burnt offering to satan.

Notice that I never said Mike "White Mikey" Laursen is a pedophile and multiple murderer. Not once did I ever say that. Do not put those words in my mouth.

[gagster]

"That speech was Biden's version of "mean tweets"."

Really? The President, a guy who has the power to set government policy, gives a major televised speech and to you that's nothing more than a mean tweet? Of course, the FBI, the 87,000 new IRS agents and other deep staters don't agree with you. As far as they are concerned, the policy has been set; their objectives are clear. It is now open season on Republicans/conservatives/libertarians/etc. And you post here, so you should not consider yourself safe. Unless you think the goons are big on nuance.

[Foo_dd]

poor little trump-sucker..... trying to post one line from Trump's speech and pretend it was ALL he said.... hoping desperately that nobody looks it up. sorry:

"As you know this week Joe Biden came to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to give the most vicious, hateful and divisive speech ever delivered by an American president, vilifying 75 million citizens, plus another probably 75 to 150.

If we want to be accurate about it, As threats to democracy and as enemies of the state, you're all enemies of the state. He's an enemy of the state, you know that? The enemy of the state is him and the group that control him, which is circling around him, 'Do this. do that Joe, you're going to do this Joe."

Right. I think Philadelphia was a great choice to make this speech of hatred and anger. His speech was hatred and anger. By the way, the next morning he forgot what he said, you saw that.

I do like the red lighting behind him, like the devil.

But Philadelphia was a great choice because the city is being devastated under Democrat rules. Devastated. He could tell you, we love Pennsylvania. I went to school in Philadelphia, what's happening to Philadelphia?"

a little rambling about the murder rate in Philly, then:

"Instead of trying to demonize half of the population, Biden and congressional Democrats should focus on stopping the killing and the bloodshed in Philadelphia and every other Democrat-run city in America where record death and destruction is taking place every single day.

Biden thinks making America great again is bad for our country. Do you believe it? That was in his—Biden says "We got to stop MAGA." That's when I defined it, because I don't think he knows what it meant. It means "make America great again." We have to stop it. Stop MAGA. Stop making America great again.

He thinks making America great again is a threat to our country. No, making America great again is great for our country.

There's only one party that's waging war in American democracy by censoring free speech, criminalizing dissent. You see that happening? Disarming law-abiding citizens, issuing lawless mandates and unconstitutional orders, imprisoning political protesters. That's what they're doing, rigging elections. weaponizing the Justice Department and the FBI like never ever before. And raiding and breaking into the homes of their political opponents. I wonder who that could be.

Republicans in the MAGA movement are not the ones trying to undermine our democracy. We are the ones trying to save our democracy very simple. The danger to democracy comes from the radical left, not from the right. Not from the right.

This November, we're going to stand up to this rising tyranny of sickness, lawlessness And death. And we are going to take back our country. We're going to take it.

There could be no more vivid example of the very real threats from American freedom. And just a few weeks ago, you saw when we witnessed one of the most shocking abuses of power by any administration in American history, the shameful raid and breaking into my home Mar-a-Lago was a travesty of justice.

That made a mockery of America's laws, traditions and principles. Before the entire world the entire world was watching and they're shocked. They're shocked. South American countries, numerous of them, their leaders said could you imagine if that was ever done in our country? What the United States would be saying about us. The Biden administration invaded the home of their chief political opponent who is absolutely destroying him and everyone else in the polls. I hate to say it.

Even including the Republicans, but we love the Republicans, on a phony pretext getting permission from a highly political magistrate who they hand-picked late in the evening, just days before the break-in. And trampled upon my rights and civil liberties as if our country, that we love so much. We're a third world nation. We're like a third world nation.

They rifled through the First Lady's closet drawers and everything else, and even did a deep and ugly search of the room of my 16-year-old son, leaving everything they touched in far different conditions than it was when they started. Can you believe it?

The FBI and the Justice Department have become vicious monsters. controlled by radical left scoundrels lawyers and the media who tell them what to do—you people right there—and when to do it.

They're trying to silence me and more importantly, they are trying to silence you. But we will not be silenced, right. We will never stop speaking the truth. We have no choice because we're not going to have a country love. The evil and malice of this demented persecution of you and me should be obvious to all entities."

[Otis R. Needleman]

VERY well put.

[Octavio Feltmann]

sarcasmic arrives to prove he never actually reads posts before he either mindlessly starts spewing insults or gets on his knees to suck some cock based on the username. Everything except the first sentence is a quotation, retard. Shreek didn't "put" anything. And the text he quoted completely and totally undermines his pathetic attempt at whataboutism. I know you're frustrated that you never got the opportunity to tape shreek fucking your underage daughter with you before her mother took her away from you, but maybe keep your bromance private.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Jesus Christ shreek, it's unseemly enough when you link to documents hoping no one will read them, but copy and pasting it in full just to emphasize the fact that you're a fucking retarded clown was far too generous. Literally nothing in the entire speech you quoted calls everyone who voted for Joe Biden a threat to democracy or a threat to America, let alone threaten to deploy military air strikes on American civilians. Stick to fucking little boys in the ass, you worthless piece of shit.

[IceTrey]

Since you can't believe their words you have to judge them by their deeds and it's clear Biden is much more dangerous to our liberty than Trump.

[Mickey Rat]

At the very least because Biden (or the people running Biden) hold the reins of government. The Biden administration's dictatorial actions such as attempting to twist the meaning of existing law to justify forgiving student loan debt to forcing private businesses to enforce a vaccine mandates are the most pressing danger to the people. Trump currently has no state power. Biden is also telling bold faced lies about recent history, like the Democrats would have opened the schools from the pandemic rules sooner but for the Republicans, while in the moment Republucan governors were demonized as trying to kill people by easing restrictions and lockdowns.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

When Team Blue is in charge, we should be concerned about the ominous words of their leaders, since they hold the reins of power after all. The words of Team Red don't really matter, and it's a distraction to focus on them because they don't hold power.

When Team Red is in charge, we should only be concerned about their actions. Focusing on their words is just a distraction (i.e. "mean tweets"). The words of Team Blue should be of great concern, however, because they are a harbinger of the very dangerous threat that they would pose if they were in power.

Remember, people, the objective here is "outcomes-based ideology". Construct whatever argument is necessary to help Team Red and hurt Team Blue, just don't be completely obvious about it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The key to "outcome-based ideology" is to use only completely neutral, nonpartisan arguments. No overt partisan cheerleading or partisan condemnation. But only use those arguments selectively depending on the desired outcome.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the argument that we ought to be concerned with only a person's actions and not words when judging that person. There's also nothing inherently wrong with the argument that a person's words also ought to be worthy of consideration when judging that person. They are both completely reasonable arguments depending on the circumstances and situation.

The problem is that they are only employed selectively to push a desired outcome. And the outcome is always "hurt Team Blue and help Team Red". So if someone on Team Red says something stupid and/or horrible, it's time to push the "only actions matter" argument. And when someone on Team Blue says something stupid and/or horrible, it's time to push the "pay attention to the dangerous rhetoric" argument.

It's just a sneaky way to push partisanship without overt partisan cheerleading.

The principled solution, of course, is to stick to one principled standard and hold everyone accountable to it. So if only actions matter, who cares about Trump's mean tweets and who cares about Biden's stupid anti-MAGA speech. But if both actions and words matter, then let's talk about Trump's horrible rhetoric as well as Biden's horrible rhetoric.

But no, we can't have that around here it seems. It's always "ignore Trump's mean tweets, don't be such a triggered baby" as well as "OMG let me reach for my fainting couch when Biden says mean things about MAGA Republicans".

[Mickey Rat]

I was discussing Biden's terrible deeds and the fact that he holds the position to commit more awful abuses of power. You also have California banning the sale of the current primary mode of transportation in twelve through an executive branch committee, a rather momentous decision to not be made by the democratically elected representatives of the people, in a state run by the party that is supposedly so concerned with the importance and health of "democracy".

[Mike Laursen]

How did you feel about Trump’s moratorium on evictions?

[R Mac]

I was against it. And the bumpstock ban. I’m a terrible cultist.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Poor White Mikey.

"O-oh yeah! W-well whatabout that time when all of you Trump cultists roasted the shit out of him for passing a crappy policy?! Huh! W-whatabout that?!?!"

[Marshal]

The problem is that they are only employed selectively to push a desired outcome. And the outcome is always "hurt Team Blue and help Team Red". So if someone on Team Red says something stupid and/or horrible, it's time to push the "only actions matter" argument. And when someone on Team Blue says something stupid and/or horrible, it's time to push the "pay attention to the dangerous rhetoric" argument.

It's just a sneaky way to push partisanship without overt partisan cheerleading.

It's interesting to see jeffey outline this since it's effectively his own method substituting the trigger slightly differently. Everywhere and always his method is to attack Team Red and protect Team Blue, but he denies partisanship in the pathetic belief it makes his arguments stronger.

[Mike Laursen]

Well said.

[Octavio Feltmann]

When Team Blue is in charge, we should be concerned about the ominous words of their leaders, since they hold the reins of power after all. The words of Team Red don't really matter, and it's a distraction to focus on them because they don't hold power.

When the words of the Evil Orange Hitler are: "I know how you feel, but go home and go home in peace." and the words of the genteel and dispassionate elder statesman are: "For those brave right-wing Americans who say it’s all about keeping America independent and safe, if you want to fight against the country, you need an F-15." there's no need to selectively parse anything. Maybe if you're getting exhausted from defending fascists threatening to use military strikes against gun owners, you should consider discontinuing your support for fascists threatening to use military strikes against gun owners.

Remember, people, the objective here is "outcomes-based ideology". Construct whatever argument is necessary to help Team Red and hurt Team Blue, just don't be completely obvious about it.

This is nearly like projection, except that you're pathologically incapable of the subtlety you attribute to Republicans.

[Reshufflex]

“…the very least because Biden (or the people running Biden) “

First, good points. Secondly, Susan Rice is likely running the show and puppeteering Biden. She’s heading that domestic council thing, whatever the fuck that is.

Her radical ideology is evident from her loyal and devoted ass-kissing to the likes of Kerry, Obama, the Clintons and now Biden.

She’s a real snake. A liar. Recall, she was the one who went on TV post-Benghazi ( compound deaths) and tried to sell the anti-Muslim video angle to explain the debacle. Even the lefties in the state depart. were apoplectic after seeing her stunt.

When your hear Biden’s official message, you’re likely. hearing Susan Rice’s edicts.

[Honest John]

Yep, agreed. Biden basically shovels lots of "ballot harvest fertilizer" at the country which provides short term votes and long term rot. I'm no fan of Trump's ego, BUT he is the lesser evil by far. Frankly I think "politicians" are inherently ill-suited to be leaders. IF "tiered voting" encourages apolitical voting , I'm ALL for it.

[Kungpowderfinger]

Democrats are "against God, guns, oil, law enforcement, voter ID, tax cuts, regulation cuts, the Constitution, and…our Founding Fathers," Trump said.
They’re not?

[Mother's Lament]

Depends which god I suppose... I think that they're very fond of Mammon and Moloch. But as for the rest, yeah.

[Vernon Depner]

BOAF SIDES!

[MJaneKelly]

The blood red lighting and the shadowy Marines as he justified loathing and violence against his political opponents.
They are setting the stage, my semi-fascist friends. We are all sub-human to the Regime. What happens next?
See: History.

[Liberty Lover]

No one has stoked division as much as Joe Biden and the Democrats. Trump was only divisive because of the lies the left told about him.

[Ersatz]

told about him by...?
I guess you mean the press... for 4+ years putting their worst spin on his every utterance when they werent twisting or outright lying about them.

[Ersatz]

So really you'd be saying that noone stoked division as much as Joe Biden, the Dems and mostly - the Press [a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party]

[Mike Laursen]

Rolling my eyes so hard.

[Octavio Feltmann]

OMG Becky that'll, like totally show him!

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

GFY Sullum. You useless pile of prevaricating propagandizing shit

[Octavio Feltmann]

WeLl sAiD

[Sheldonius Rex]

All this civil war lead up has me harder than Chinese algebra. Gawd I hope neither side pusses out this time.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Fed?

[Ersatz]

you're figuring a fishing expedition there?

[Harishpale]

Yes!! It's obvious the former president made a few mistakes that led to the USthe US's current condition, and now the people of America realize the current president's conditions and feelings.

[Social Justice is neither]

You'll have to point out the "obvious" mistakes for clarity. There were positions you could disagree with, there were rationales you could find no merit in but overalthey were middle of the road American decisions. At no time did trump come out demonizing half of all Americans, just selective targets like our lying media.

[NoVaNick]

The donkey party would definitely be toast in November were it not for that SCOTUS ruling but it seems to be in doubt now. Both parties seek to take away things their opponents care about and reward their cronies, but I have long thought, and still do, that the left is much worse. I hope all those rabid vagina voters pissed off about abortion enjoy having their pockets emptied.

[Foo_dd]

almost makes the Push to overturn Roe in the first place look like a stupid thing to have done..... doesn't it? republicans gave people a reason to vote against them.

[Octavio Feltmann]

By taking us back to the draconian system of abortion regulation in the EU nations that Democrats have been saying we should emulate for 50 years.

Also of all the places to break character and insert a random capitalized letter, shreek, that was a strange word to do it.

[chem-jongjeff radical communist]

If only TDS was terminal.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Perhaps the vaccine could be.

[justme]

it may very well be. it is certainly dangerous, useless & unnecessary.

[Octavio Feltmann]

It will be soon enough. Remember, the most fearsome fighters in the Democratic Party's Black Bloc got smoked by a 17 year old boy standing about 5 feet and 4 inches tall.

[telerain]

Yes!! It's obvious the former president made a few mistakes that led to the USthe US's current condition, and now the people of America realize the current president's conditions and feelings.

[TJJ2000]

Democrats -- Republicans are destroying our Nazi(National Socialist)-Regime!!!
Republicans -- Democrats are destroying the USA defined by the U.S. Constitution!!!

Both sides are correct it's just a matter of who thinks this nation is the USA and who thinks it's a Nazi-Empire.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Let's seee .... one side has a doddering power-mad spendthrift trying to bring OBL's dream to life, making the poor pay for the rich getting woke college decrees, increasing the national debt by perhaps $1T at the stroke of a pen even when his advisors and he himself said it was illegal. Reducing oil production capacity, then begging the Saudis to produce more to make up. Finished the section of border wall his opponent started, while ignoring illegal immigrants elsewhere. His supporters spent two summers burning, looting, and murdering, with government support. Never accepted the 2016 election, even impeached their opponent twice with even weaker tea than Clinton's impeachment 20 years before, and sent the FBI to raid him for documents which they themselves had left alone for the last year and a half. This same FBI had conspired to help Hillary in making up Russian disinformation about Trump for the 2016 election, to cover up Biden's and his son's corruption to rig the 2020 election.

The other side has been out of power for a year and a half, is not quite as economically ignorant, makes mean tweets, tried every legal means at his disposal to dispute the 2020 election, and his supporters + some unknown number of FBI instigators invaded the capitol building and vandalized and pilfered on a small scale.

Which one is more dangerous?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Summary of 90% of the Reason comments:

I will describe the team that I hate in the most unflattering, uncharitable terms.
I will now describe the team that I like in the most positive and generous terms.

Now, people, after I have made this very unbiased comparison, which team is really worse? Come on now, you can do it!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Team Blue is full of baby-murdering racists.
Team Red is full of America-loving patriots.

So which team is REALLY the worse team? Huh?

[Mickey Rat]

Biden's rhetoric suggests his party values abortion as a foundational right. To be against it is anti-American, by his lights. His party supports the racial nonsense of Critical Race Theory and the government judging people by their racial identities as demanded by the results oriented standard of "Equity".

If the shoe fits...

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Biden's rhetoric suggests his party values abortion as a foundational right. To be against it is anti-American, by his lights.

Along with about 3/4ths of the population. Including a big majority in deep-red Kansas.

His party supports the racial nonsense of Critical Race Theory and the government judging people by their racial identities as demanded by the results oriented standard of "Equity".

Yup, a minority subset of his party strongly believes in racial identity politics. You are exactly right.

So the dishonest and disingenuous part is to equate all abortion with "baby murdering", and to accuse everyone in Team Blue with supporting racism, AS WELL AS to use only these two examples to judge the entirety of Team Blue, and to hagiographically sanitize Team Red, in order to arrive at a dishonest comparison of the two teams.

So if you really want to play the game "which team is worse" in an intellectually honest way, you ought to accurately characterize the positions of the teams, and not omit the uncomfortable parts from the team that you like. But the point of all of these WHICH TEAM IS WORSE? HUH???? comments is not to be intellectually honest, it is to push a narrative as unflattering to Team Blue as possible. That's the whole point.

[Mickey Rat]

What Biden said the other night is that if you do not agree with the Democrat's views on any abortion anywhere then you are a danger to society. He wants to shut down any debate on the issue and any way you reach a consensus on the issue that is not the extremist "any abortion, anywhere, anytime" position of the Democrats present a danger to the country.

Thank you for conceding that a significant portion of the Democrat's base are racists, and are pursuing a racist program. Would that they were a small minority, but currently they appear to be ascendant and controlling of the Dems agenda.

[Libertariantranslator]

To be for abortion, that is, women having individual rights even when pregnant, is definitely anti-Nazi by Hitler's lights, and against Teddy Roosevelt's race-suicide theories. But the 13th amendment says you can no longer force women into involuntary servitude of reproduction. Reproducing at gunpoint is slavery under the Confederate states, which failed and lost. But you can go to Nigeria. They bully girls there and it's still legal.

[Libertariantranslator]

Both halves of the Kleptocracy publish lengthy platforms that take close to 6 hours to read, much less compare. The LP platform takes 20 minutes.

[Octavio Feltmann]

And Dr. Seuss books are only about 10 pages long plus they have pictures, sarcasmic. That's the difference between material intended for children and material intended for grownups.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Team Red is full of fascist Bible-thumping racists.
Team Blue is full of democracy-loving humanitarians.

So which team is REALLY the worse team? Huh?

[TJJ2000]

Team Blue is massively PROJECTING that they are with no question the racists and sexist party. Still trying to propagandize the world because of their party-of-slavery roots I guess.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And which team has more people who support limits on government scope and size?

[Octavio Feltmann]

It's funny because you have quite literally said exactly those two statements with only very minor changes of wording, 7 days per week, 16 hours per day, on every article posted to Reason.com, for 6.5 years and counting.

[raspberrydinners]

Imagine being this fucking daft that you claim Biden is stoking division.

The guy campaigned on unity and bringing the sides together and the Republicans spat in his face every fucking opportunity they got.

Fuck off with this both sides nonsense. It's clear that Republicans don't want to compromise or do anything in good faith and it shows, much less Trump who is just king of the assholes and isn't in for anything that doesn't enrich himself.

Fuck off.

[sarcasmic]

Biden is talking out two sides of his mouth. Sure he preaches unity and bringing sides together, but what that means is the other side giving up everything and coming into his fold. It's typical progressive "equality and inclusiveness" mantra, which really means "equality and inclusiveness in everything except thought."

[Spiritus Mundi]

^ Imagine being so oblivious you get called out by sarc

[sarcasmic]

Imagine being so retarded you think I support the political left.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Well damn, I guess the shreek/sarcasmic bromance is officially over. Until sarcasmic's EBT card gets topped up and he afford enough alcohol to forget who everyone here is again.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

You should write for Vox. Or maybe Maddow.

[Mickey Rat]

Biden has been a vicious party hack his career.

The man who said in 2012 that Mitt Romney was going to bring back slavery was going to be a unifier. This was always a delusion.

[NoVaNick]

2024 should be interesting if the dems make gains in the midterms and pass a law to allow abortion at any time, mandate zero-emission everything, and extend student loan forgiveness up to $50k even for those who make $250k a year (what Lizzie Warren wants). Even if none of this happens, the economy will likely be in the shitter for real.

[Marshal]

The guy campaigned on unity and bringing the sides together

It's amusing hatemongers claim they want unity and their sycophants pretend it's genuine. Meanwhile Biden claimed Mitt Romney (i.e, milktoast) Republicans want to put black Americans "back in chains".

They aren't worth taking seriously because their fantasies prevent them from even recognizing reality.

[ElvisIsReal]

When all Biden's ideas are terrible, why should we go along with them?

[eyeroller]

This is the most important election in history.

You must vote for Democrats or it's all over.

You must vote for Republicans or it's all over.

[NoVaNick]

Which is why I will be sitting this one out. I live in the bluest district in my state anyway, so why should I waste my time? Statewide and local offices are more important and there aren’t any this year.

[Libertariantranslator]

A libertarian vote tells politicians to repeal laws. Since both Kleptocracy halves are basically identical, it doesn't take many LP votes to exceed the difference between their vote counts. That makes the libertarian platform important to THEM because your vote broadcasts for all eternity that freedom is important to you and compulsion won't cut it. It works. Hillary's party is alluva sudden interested in defending women and not shooting potheads. Mule training 101: (https://bit.ly/3QpGuKk)

[Octavio Feltmann]

Maybe by 2375 you guys will finally get that municipal dog catcher election licked, sarcasmic.

[sarcasmic]

It's always the most important election in history. If the Democrats win it's the end of the world. Blah blah blah. I don't miss talk radio one little bit.

[Brandybuck]

Yup. 2020 was supposed to be the most important election in history. So important all those "patriots" rioted over it. But other than this stupid heat wave, we're still here.

I've been told it was the most important election, by both sides, since I was a kid. I'm old enough to remember my mother telling me with a somber voice that 1972 was the most important election in all of history.

[sarcasmic]

Yup. 2020 was supposed to be the most important election in history.

So was 2016 and 2012 and 2008... Democrats are the Antichrist, while Republicans are the return of Jesus.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yup, still here with significant inflation, on the verge of a serious recession, and governments at the federal, state, and local levels that shit on the Constitution and have advanced more statist programs than in the past decades. But otherwise, no problem.

[Brandybuck]

And Both Sides(tm) have contributed heavily to all those problems.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Psssst, hey kid. Yeah, you, the one with the padded helmet. Democrats control both houses of the federal legislature, the presidency, the judiciary, and a plurality of state houses. Remember how everything was Trump's fault even when he had a hostile legislature and his own executive departments defied his orders and even established backchannels with China promising to give them advance warning of any potential military conflict? Well, now that the Democrats hold every lever of power in this country, it's OK if you call them out too.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Well 2016 must have been much less important, which is why Hillary supporters peacefully burned down 12 square blocks of downtown Washington D.C. causing tens of millions of dollars of property damage and beat the shit out of an immigrant limo driver while torching his livelihood.

[Octavio Feltmann]

I don't miss talk radio one little bit.

And yet you talk about it endlessly. Kinda like how you don't miss your ex-wife one bit, but obsessively post 50-comment threads calling her a cunt every time you get sufficiently shitfaced.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You must vote for Democrats or it's all over.

You must vote for Republicans or it's all over.

Yup the two tribes do the same fucking thing every election. It is the most transparent example of demagoguery, i.e., using fear to manipulate people's emotions to acquire votes and power, and yet so many people still fall for it every single time.

I will never vote for either tribe again.

[sarcasmic]

"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right."

-H.L. Mencken

[Libertariantranslator]

I tried voting for each gang, exactly once. That was two votes down the drain. Every LP vote since then has packed at least ten times the law-repealing clout.

[Octavio Feltmann]

How many laws did the zero elected representatives the LP has ever run repeal again, sarcasmic?

[Octavio Feltmann]

I will never vote for either tribe again.

Since you are a Canadian citizen who lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, that's, uh, mighty white of ya cytotoxic.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Trump's supporters, Biden explained, "do not respect the Constitution," "do not believe in the rule of law," and "do not recognize the will of the people." They "promote authoritarian leaders" and "fan the flames of political violence," which threatens "the very soul of this country."

Alinsky propaganda grade: A+

[Earnesto Concernada]

It would be a lot easier to have unity in this country if Trump and his followers weren’t all Super-Nazi racists.

[TJJ2000]

PROJECTION is rich in this one...
Nazi (syn for; National Socialism) 100% the Democrats platform....
Color based legislation 100% the Democrats platform...

It's amazing how much leftards PROJECT.
"Everything we do to a T we blame on everyone else."

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Poe?

[Brandybuck]

Neither side. Neither. Side.

Vote someone else in 2024. Here's hoping Tulsi Gabbard tells both sides to fuck off and run as an independent. She can have Pete Meijer as a running mate.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Maybe you could get Nader to run again and pretend you've ever voted Green Party in your life you fucking shank.

[Dillinger]

>>equally apocalyptic

lolnope.

[Jerry B.]

They decry “MAGA Republicans”, and “radical left lunatics”, and they’re both right. Where’s the dispute?

[TJJ2000]

Right... It's like heaven-forbid anyone "Make America Great Again."

[sarcasmic]

You new here? "Both sides" is blasphemy. MAGA Republicans are the truth and the light. They are the beacon of liberty in a world of darkness and evil. True libertarians are MAGA Republicans, and anyone who says different is a leftist who loves Biden and hates America. Jeez. Do try to keep up.

[Brandybuck]

MAGA heads and Mises Caucus. Polar opposites yet oddly identical.

Remember Donderooo proudly proclaiming Sarah Palin to be the Great Libertarian Hope? Yeah, the GOP is now all Dondero all the time. Trump is the most libertarian president evah and Mar-a-Lago is the promised Galt's Gulch.

[Libertariantranslator]

You know what they say about imitation...
Then again, Treasury agents call it counterfeiting. Military call it false flag ops.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Psychologists call it alcohol-induced language disorder, like when you repeat the same thing over and over not realizing you are repeating yourself, sarcasmic.

[Libertariantranslator]

Yeah! Ever since a dozen televangelists gave the Don the Baptism of drool, he has channeled Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell and Ted Haggard. Please listen carefully to what the LP's opposition say about each other before you vote.

[Alan Vanneman]

This is a pathetic exercise in faux even-handedness. I find it hard to believe that Jake really believes this drivel. Does he write this stuff so that the Trump bros libertarians won't dismiss him as a complete pussy? It's a theory.

[Libertariantranslator]

Not a bad one. Imagine, for the sake of argument, you're a Trumpanzee. No way can you sell shoot-first-then-Crash prohibitionism, nor enslaving girls to reproduce at gunpoint. Nothing else is left but to depict anything the other looter does as The End Times and schaisstpost anyone who departs from that prescription. Sullum writes for a libertarian publication so nobody with an IQ of 60 needs reminding he's on neither team-Klepto

[Octavio Feltmann]

Hey sarcasmic, tell us again how the dirty Republican Franklin Roosevelt outlawed Marihuana and how the dirty Republican legislatures in 3/4 of the US states all with Democratic party majorities passed Prohibition.

I miss the real Hankie.

[Octavio Feltmann]

You keep misspelling your name.

[Marshal]

Biden prefaced his attack on Trump and his followers by drawing a distinction between "MAGA Republicans" and "mainstream Republicans," whom "I've been able to work with."

Let's all remember a decade ago Biden claimed these Republicans he could work with want to but black Americans "back in chains" returning them to slavery. In truth he's always been a viscous demagogue happy to demonize anyone on the other side.

[Libertariantranslator]

I found no error in Sullum's analysis, or the looter politicians' assertions--just an omission. Before Hitler socialists benefited from the Hoover moratorium and 1931 antinarcotics convention backlash, Nazi posters made it either-or, ignore third parties. Social Dem posters urged voters to gig Monarchy, Communism and Nazis, leaving them as the only moderates standing. Trump has become Jim Bakker/Jerry Falwell. Biden is the prohibitionist looter from 1987. Both gangs want you to ignore the clearly-demonstrated law-changing clout of libertarian spoiler votes. Germany had no Libertarian Party in 1933, and only the NSDAP by 1934.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Nice job sarcasmic, you've gone back and fished out some of Hankie's old copypasta, but you've still got the order all jumbled up. If you can make it 3 hours without a quart of Canadian Mist and really focus you might be able to nail this shtick down.

[Agammamon]

"Wrong, but within normal parameters". That's what you wanted Sullum. Was that what you got?

[Truthteller1]

Another bullshit hot take from the never Trumper cuck sullum. Name on instance of Trump demonizing democrats. Name one sullum. Trump was divisive because of mindless sheep in state media, the deep state and here at reason.

[Foo_dd]

guess reading is not your strong suite..... he is talking about two specific speeches. one where Biden is demonizing the MAGA crowd, and one where Trump is demonizing democrats.

you are asking him to provide one example on an article that is literally about one example. you really are that reflexively stupid. try to get past the headline before making a fool of yourself.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Except that Sullum lied and misrepresented what Trump said, which had dick all to do with Democratic Party *voters* and everything to do with the Biden administration lawlessly attempting to prevent him from running in 2024 because they're terrified they won't be able to fabricate enough votes in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania to manufacture another Biden "win" now that the courts have gutted the election fortifications from 2020. But you knew that, kiddie fucker.

I like that you capitalize MAGA exclusively btw. It's good to see you break your 4chan posting shtick to give an honorific to Trump you illiterate fucking clown.

[MatthewSlyfield]

Isn't sowing division while complaining about the other side sowing division the primary function of politicians?

Isn't this a "Water is Wet: News at 11" item?

[gagster]

Biden just declared war on Republicans/conservatives/libertarians/etc.

When his FBI/Gestapo arrests us and we're all dying in the reeducation camps, I'm sure Sullum and the other Reason writers will be there along side us, telling us about how Trump is just as bad.

[MrBoz]

The Brownshirts are coming, 87000 armed IRS agents that have to pass an ideology test.

[Hal8888]

????CHRISTrumpOwens and all our US TRUMPlican Lawmakers successfully US 2022-2036 Reelected Landslide
Amen & Amen????

[Hal8888]

CHRISTrumpOwens and all our US TRUMPlican Lawmakers successfully US 2022-2036 Reelected Landslide
Amen & Amen

[MrBoz]

TDS addled writers that insist on advancing the notion that Trump entered politics out of a lust for power are extremely tedious. Trump has offered his thoughts on American policy for over 40 years, and constantly said when asked if he would enter politics that it wasnt his schtick, but that he would if nobody stepped up for Americans. Obama and his Chicago Way was that catalyst. As president, Trump governed very much as a run of the mill GOPer, and stayed consistent to the values he had shared for decades. What seems to make people apoplectic is that he brought a blue collar/hardhat style to the office and fought the dems on their own terms. The attempts to equivocate Biden and Trump are disgusting. Trump eroded his lifes work (his brand) by entering politics. Biden has always been for sale to the highest bidder. America be damned.

[Mike Laursen]

It’s a nice story. Had to sand some bits off reality to make it that nice.

Trump might not crave power but he does crave attention and approval.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Biden (PBUH) on the other hand was so pure of intention that he hid in his basement and didn't even bother campaigning. That's dedication to The People.

[Bladernr1001]

Some comments he made not withstanding, I cannot come up with any concrete examples of where Trump was outright authoritarian...can you?

Seems to me that all this leftist charge that Trump is fascist is made up almost out of pure thin air.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Eviction moratorium, vaccine mandates, and bump stock ban were all pretty authoritarian. They just pale in comparison over a 4 year period with what Biden did in his first 100 days.

[MrBoz]

Summery of Bidens gates of hell speech: "Those guys? Theyre only semi fascists, if you want the real thing, hold my beer."

[Bladernr1001]

Jacob, I would take Trump and MAGA and all that over the Biden and the Dems any day of the week. Just on this "green energy" push they could do serious damage to the economy......it is so misguided.

[David1234]

The article is simply dishonest.

[Bladernr1001]

Dishonest toward trump. As a Libertarian, I would take Trump over Biden and company...especially seeing how fast they went far left right after they campaigned on being moderate.

[Cool Mountain]

It's disheartening that a well reasoned article is savaged by many commentators who think Biden truly is 'evil' and Trump is just 'misunderstood'.

If you can't see that Biden and Trump are both delusional [granted in different ways] or that the dangers to our country are coming from both the far right and far left then you're blind. And, worse, the absurdities and false narratives coming from the extremes will continue to dominate our thinking and our discourse. Any reasonable politicians are welcome but they all seem to be hiding at the moment afraid to offend the left and right cults.

[Tony]

It's fallacious in the extreme to say that because one side has gone insane that the other side must have gone equally insane.

No Democrats are trying to overthrow democracy.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Threatening airstrikes against US citizens is just sensible democracy reform. Putting your feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk very nearly killed AOC from 2 miles away and resulted in the election being overturned!

[Octavio Feltmann]

When the "far right" threatens to use military action against US citizens for exercising their 2nd amendment rights then we sit down and gaze into our navels about baof sides, Nazi boot licker. Until then, you better fucking goddamn pray to Gaia that you don't get caught out when the SHTF. Your best and brightest got smoked by a 17 year old little boy.

[justme]

more sullum tds

[Libertarians are dickless losers]

Submissive betas pissing away their grandfather’s sacrifices because they’re incapable of taking a real stand.

Enjoy your fence-sitting!

[Octavio Feltmann]

Feel free to make your stand then, sarcasmic. There is quite literally nothing on earth I would love better than to watch you choke to death on your own blood like your kiddie fucker buddy Rosenbaum. Nut up or shut up, tuff gai.

[Unable2Reason]

Haven't you heard? Trump's not in office.

[Joe Friday]

"The two speeches—one decrying "MAGA Republicans" who "represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic," the other condemning "the radical left lunatics" who are "trying to destroy our country"—mirrored each other in ways neither man would be willing to admit. Both portrayed the other side as not just mistaken but malevolent and warned that its victory this fall would doom everything Americans hold dear."

Sorry Jake, but MAGAts are a malevolent and incredibly stupid force in US politics. Normal people don't have full sized flags and shirtless posters of their preferred political leaders on display but these people are zombies, completely immune from evidence or anything in the real world which suggests their dear leader is a lying braggart and con man who would sell them out in a heart beat if it served his personal goals. This is a thankfully a unique movement of the stupid and character deficient Americans, not normal partisan politics.

[Octavio Feltmann]

We heard you the first 37 times ITT, sarcasmic.

[Octavio Feltmann]

By the way did you ever stare deeply into the eyes of your HOPE poster while you were raping your underage daughter and contemplate what a piece of shit you are?

[NoVaNick]

Well-said, but I think those motivated by moral superiority are a small minority of voters (maybe 20% at best). What will get democrats elected is the message that the other side has taken away one of their rights (abortion). The republicans also have used this messaging with guns in 1994 and Obamacare in 2010, and were very successful.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Summary of GG's comments:
"I'm a racist douchebag who comes here to push violent rhetoric because every other sane place has banned me."

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Yes, cuts the Gordian knot, that does.

[raspberrydinners]

You need help, for real.

Much less, just do us all a favor and stfu every once in a while. You never add anything to the conversation, what little there is of it anyhow.

[sarcasmic]

I laughed out loud.

[Libertariantranslator]

That summarizes 103 others as well

[Octavio Feltmann]

Lol. Took you all of 1 comment to literally post the exact caricature that you yourself constructed. Jesus Christ, cytotoxic...

[sarcasmic]

You forget about Ken's daily diatribes before he lost his mind over the election and became a hermit?

[sarcasmic]

Is it painful being that stupid? Just curious.

[Marshal]

You never add anything to the conversation

By this standard you should delete your account.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Hey shreek, remember when you got banned for posting dark web links to hardcore child pornography at Reason.com? Maybe you should shut the fuck up and be grateful you're not in jail where you belong.

[sarcasmic]

That's what you got from that quote? Wow. That's some weapons-grade stupid you got there.

[R Mac]

Lol.

[sarcasmic]

“Under democracy one party always devotes it's chief energies to prove that the other party is unfit to rule-- and both commonly succeed, and are right. the United States has never developed an aristocracy really disinterested or an intelligentsia really intelligent. It's history is simply a record of vacillations between two gangs of frauds.”

Mmmm k. Still not seeing your retarded interpretation.

[sarcasmic]

I don't support the left. I don't support the right. They all suck. I've only said that tens of thousands of times. You've got to be quite the retard to have not picked up on that by now.

[sarcasmic]

Let's break down the quote.

"Under democracy one party always devotes it's chief energies to prove that the other party is unfit to rule-- and both commonly succeed, and are right."

Translation: political parties win by saying the other one is terrible, and they're both correct.

"the United States has never developed an aristocracy really disinterested or an intelligentsia really intelligent."

Translation: Aristocracies aren't disinterested, intelligentsia isn't intelligent, and the United States has neither.

"It's history is simply a record of vacillations between two gangs of frauds."

Translation: Both parties suck, and the people who support them are fools.

I'll bet if you had told Menken he wanted to be ruled by top men he'd likely punch you in the mouth.

[Beezard]

I’m still suspicious of SCOTUS actually ruling on it the way they did after decades of kicking the can. And the leak. And it’s timing. I’ve just gotten to the point where I think everything in our system has been captured one way or another.

They did us a solid on striking down vaccine mandates. But Even there, I wonder if Roe being gone might make it easier to get a mandate through the next time.

Roe was crappy law constitutionally, and I’m cool with many things being up to the states. But somewhere along the line I think we’re going to wish there was some sort of individual “body rights” protection via 14th amendment against some of the more extreme state governments. Be they right or left or whatevs.

[Octavio Feltmann]

Post the list sarcasmic!

[Octavio Feltmann]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HE SAID REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST! FUNNIEST SHIT I'VE HEARD SINCE JON STEWART WENT OFF THE AIR 20 YEARS AGO! JESUS CHRIST MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT!!!!!!!!

[Octavio Feltmann]

sarcasmic self-admittedly couldn't even finish Economics In One Lesson, which is a sub-middle-school level text. His attention span is only good for about 1/3 of a DailyFail article. He is obsessed with a 20 year old teen coming of age comedy and 20 year old Jon Stewart bits. You expected him to have any idea who H.L. Mencken was, let alone to have ever read a syllable of his material?

[Octavio Feltmann]

I'm surprised there's any leasable space in your head for Ken with Trump still taking up residence there 2 years after he left office.