Don't Let Russia's Regime Change Plans Draw the U.S. Into War
As appalling as the Russian foreign minister’s admission is, it does not change the reasons to avoid a war with Moscow.
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Five months into its brutal war of aggression against Ukraine, the Russian government finally came clean: It wants regime change. "We are determined to help the people of eastern Ukraine to liberate themselves from the burden of this absolutely unacceptable regime," Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Sunday, draping conquest in the garb of freedom.
This is a new line from Moscow, in fact a reversal of its rhetoric earlier in the war. In March, for example, a representative of Lavrov's department conceded that the Kremlin wanted to keep Ukraine from joining NATO but denied any designs on Kyiv. Moscow's plans "do not include either the occupation of Ukraine or the destruction of its statehood," she said, "nor the overthrow of the current government" led by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Now the pretense has fallen, and Lavrov's admission is sure to become a stock line in arguments for expanded U.S. military intervention in the conflict. Yet as appalling as Lavrov's comment is, it does not change any of the fundamental reasons to avoid a war between the United States and Russia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his invasion with claims of self-defense. Allowing Ukraine to align more closely with the West, and particularly to join NATO, "would be an absolutely irresponsible thing to do for us," he said. "For our country, it is a matter of life and death, a matter of our historical future as a nation." If Russia did not preemptively assault Ukraine, Putin insisted, Russian culture would be destroyed; Ukraine would commit genocide against Russian-speaking people in the country's east; and Western nations would behave like the Nazis during appeasement. Attacking Ukraine, he insisted, was a defensive move.
Putin's narrative was never credible or even coherent, with or without this week's explicit embrace of regime change, and experts and officials in Washington and elsewhere have long recognized as much. The British government accused Russia of planning regime change all the way back in January. It's unlikely that Moscow would accept anything less, Alexandra Vacroux of the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies told The Harvard Gazette shortly after the war began, because "their objective is control over Ukraine. They tried to do it indirectly through pro-Russian politicians, and that didn't work. Now they're taking direct action to be sure that the person running Ukraine is going to be friendly."
In the months since, that action has proven a lot less direct than many anticipated. Within a matter of weeks, it became clear that Putin, like "many other would-be regime changers in history…underestimated the costs his regime change plan [would] require," argued security scholar at the Modern War Institute and my colleague at Defense Priorities, Benjamin Denison. And even if Russia were able to take Kyiv and overthrow the Ukrainian government, "that is just the beginning," Alexander B. Downes of George Washington University told The Washington Post.
"This is what regime changers don't look at," Downes said. "They focus on the short-term."
Undue focus on the short term—namely, the shock of Moscow copping to its flailing attempt at ousting Zelenskyy—is a risk for Washington too. American officials continue to be enthusiastic about providing a broad and steady flow of U.S. military support to Ukraine, including helping to kill Russian generals and sink a Russian ship. "I think we should do more," Rep. Michael Waltz (R–Fla.) proposed on Fox News this week, including having American "advisors in Ukraine helping their military with the planning and logistics" so Ukraine can "go for a win" and get "back to that 2014 line," which probably means reclaiming the Crimean peninsula from Russia's 2014 annexation. Rep. Mikie Sherrill (D-N.J.) similarly called for sending a U.S. "logistics officer" to coordinate weapons transfers.
Lavrov's remark will undoubtedly fuel more escalatory arguments, but it doesn't mark a real change in Russian policy. Nor does it negate the grave danger of the United States moving toward open war with Russia, a fellow nuclear power with whom our military is already operating in perilously close quarters in Syria. President Joe Biden was right to pledge, with a clarity too often lacking in his policy toward Ukraine, that the United States "will not be directly engaged in this conflict, either by sending American troops to fight in Ukraine or by attacking Russian forces." The Kremlin's decision to confess its aim of regime change doesn't make that promise any less wise. If anything, it's more important than ever.
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Yes, we would never do anything like that.
Heaven forefend.
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The US coordinated the regime change with the 2014 coup which resulted in 8 years of bloody civil war on Russias border.
The US is funding Jews and Nazis and is 100% responsible for this situation.
There’s NOTHING the US wants more than to enter another war of aggression of their own doing.
Russia protecting its peoples and border is not aggression it is defence.
Fuck Off, Molotov-Ribbentrop-er!
Begging and whining is your schtick.
Apologetics for Totalitarianism are your schtick!.
And just what are you doing talking Yiddish? That won't look good with your friends in your "cell."
Fuck Off, Nazi!
I like to feed the begging and whining trolls what they can’t refute and laugh when you choke.
Hahaha.
Exactly. One can accept that Russia is asshole. One can argue to what extent Ukraine is a victim, villain or something in between. But none of that matters when talking about US intervention. We should not be the world's policeman.
Five months into its brutal war of aggression against Ukraine, the Russian government finally came clean: It wants regime change.
How is this news?
Like when "x" number of weeks into slowing the spread, the CDC acknowledged that masking is useless... but still do it.
heck, wear two!
It's news when you're a leftist living in the leftist information ecosystem. Both things can be true, but apparently that is beyond Bonnie. They can't get the non-NATO agreements so long as Zelensky is in power so they want him out, or at least out of power for parts of Ukraine. It doesn't have to be moral or right from our perspective to be understandable.
Understandable perhaps, but criminal nonetheless. This is what we have to stress. The U.S. wanted Castro gone from Cuba for decades, but we didn't send in the U.S. army to oust him, because we recognized that we have no right to, and that having a world in which international law exists and countries don't just overthrow others whenever they feel like it was more important.
Continuing to spend billions on weapons for Ukraine for years to come is not tenable. Supporting legal options to exclude Russia from the "civilized world" for its criminal war of aggression may be. We should seek to expel Russia from the United Nations for violating the U.N. Charter by initiating this war of aggression. Russia will veto it, but a precedent from the build-up to the Korean War could let us reintroduce the resolution in the General Assembly, where there is no veto, and it would likely pass. We could also break off diplomatic relations with Russia, and encourage other nations to do the same.
Yeah, no.
The US didn’t send in the military not because of respect for international law, but because we had Soviet nukes ready to rock had we done so.
Well, we didn't do it in 1992 either, when the Soviet Union was gone and Russia and Cuba were no longer on such great terms.
Yeah, I'm sure Western Europe is looking forward to freezing to death this winter, but carry on with the regime talking points. I look forward to you disavowing the US for the Cuban missile crisis and telling the Russian Eukranians that they have no right to independence because the US says so.
Ummmm, isn't the US resonating for putting Castro in charge in the first place? I remember some interesting history tidbits, where he'd have people change clothes and come back into a room during interviews (or diplomatic meetings can't remember which) to give an American audience the false impression his movement was bigger than it was, so we would give him the support to overthrow the them current government.
Not true. There is no such thing as a right to be a dictator. These are giany hostage situations. Free people have every right to end those dictators.
They may choose not to for practical reasons, like cost, or lives. But do not ever think some bit of sophomoric philosophy disables you ethically from rescuing someone from a thug.
If I were trapped in such a land, and I saw someone sitting safe and free tell themselves he had no right to free me, Ixd piss in his face, if I could, which I couldn't, because I am a captive of a murderer.
Krayt, you are great!
While the U.S. Government shouldn't send conscripted blood or treasure anywhere, it should at least free U.S. Citizens, to donate weapons and war materiels
as well as volunteer services to oppressed peoples, including Ukraine. Only an oppressive Government and a cheek-turning slave morality would forbid that, as sadly, the U.S. Government does severely restrict weapons transfers across our borders.
Understandable perhaps, but criminal nonetheless. This is what we have to stress. The U.S. wanted Castro gone from Cuba for decades, but we didn't send in the U.S. army to oust him
------
You sure about that?
Cue to stop listening- "When the leftists..."
It's "news". You need to watch CNN, listen to NPR, or read the NYT, they can explain it.
It's newsworthy when a government tells the truth.
They want regiem change in the Ukraine? Who do they think they are, the 2014 obama administration?
OK, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Putin govt. wants to change the Ukraine regime. (like we helped do a few years ago)
But this quote doesn't prove it: "We are determined to help the people of eastern Ukraine to liberate themselves from the burden of this absolutely unacceptable regime"
That just means they want to annex the majority-Russian-speaking eastern part of the country, which has been having a civil war since before the invasion.
I doubt that their motives are pure, of course. When I think Russia I generally don't think "peaceful and minding its own business."
Neither do I associate such concepts with the USA, alas.
We deliberately decided not to have Ukraine in NATO. Now we're reinforcing the message that you don't even have to have a treaty of alliance to get U. S. aid. It's all war, all the time.
Russia learned well from Bush2, regime change and preemptive strikes. thank your George Bush
Maybe plebiscites would be a better solution when "majority 'whatever' tribes or cultures want their region to withdraw from a nation or government that oppresses them? No Civil War. California decides to be a separate "socialist republic" and takes Nancy and Newsome with them?
The north of the state would not go with them.
Eastern part of the state would not go with them.
US military bases would not go with them.
(US) National parks would not go with them.
US Defense workers would not go with them.
US Courts would not go with them.
US dollars would not go with them.
So what would go?
I know a ton of defence workers that would go with them. Granted they would all be in the dei department, hr department, and some of the more useless engineers
Plebiscites in which geographical area? Wilson was a fan, which should set off alarm bells.
If there's a plebiscite in Russian-conquered areas, have poll monitors.
Ukrainian controlled areas too. They don't seem to keen on allowing parts of the country to decide their own path either.
How about an honest, internationally monitored poll in Russia states and Belarus? As to whether *they* would like independence from Moscow....
How about in the US then, and if we'd like to be ruled by the evil, corrupt State Department?
Eat a bullet.
five months we can't complete a cover-up?
Is it appalling? Would it have been justified for Russia to interfere with our loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong history of regime change? After all, we've always tried to interfere with the Soviet Union's.
We are at war with Russia, Ms. Kristian. The Ukes are our wogs. It's not just a matter of avoiding escalation but of extracting ourselves, first from the Ukraine and then NATO and all of Europe.
Europe put themselves at risk through their own policies, relying heavily on exports from Russia for their economy as they tried to switch to green energy and climate change insanity. They own their decisions, not the US. This may be the wake up call they need instead of relying on the US.
Ah yes, Peace in Our Time - - - - - - - -
It wants regime change. "We are determined to help the people of eastern Ukraine to liberate themselves from the burden of this absolutely unacceptable regime," Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Sunday
Maybe I'm a little bit of pedant here, but isn't saying you want the eastern part of the country to not be under the government in Kiev a little different from saying you want to topple the government in Kiev? From what I can tell, removing the Donbas from the Ukraine was pretty clearly and openly part of their war aims. Ignoring the whole "eastern" part seems like a pretty significant omission.
It's Russian collusion to listen to what Russia says
52 former intelligence officials informed me that it bears all the markings of Russian disinformation....or was it 51? Ehh, who gives a shit about being right? All I know is that Hunter is innocent.
I thought the same. Even if you take it
at face valueas the asserted translation given, it's still "After 5 mos. of having every soldier utterly wiped out by Ukrainian forces, thanks to more than $80B in US backing, Russia announces regime change... in Ukraine."You'd think between a mostly one-party government devoted to science and truth and a largely sympathetic media, the narrative wouldn't continue to constantly fuck itself like this.
What's even funnier is a Swedish economist coming out yesterday and saying russia cutting off the energy supplied would crash the EU energy grid. Another win for green energy policies.
“Prime Minister Chamberlain, your new speech writer is here.”
I'm surprised it took this long to get to the Godwinning.
It's such a stupid reference, but low IQ State Department bots love to bust it out.
Which Hitler is this? We've had so many, in my lifetime, it's getting hard to keep count. We had Kaddafi. There was Saddam. I think Noriega was for a couple of weeks. But, that one didn't last. We decided he was just Charlie Chaplin. Oh, and let's not forget Osama Bin Laden. He was definitely Hitler. And the Iranian regime. Those guys are all Hitler.
And then, domestically, George W. Bush got to be Hitler for a while. Then they decided he wasn't Hitlery enough. So Donald Trump had to be Hitler.
Because Putin isn't stopping with the Donbass or East Ukraine. He wants a Revanchist Eurasian Empire with Ukraine as his first move.
Low IQ State bot gonna low IQ bot
Unlike too many other North Carolinians, I can and do read, including super stories like this:
Ukraine Attacks Kherson Bridge To Isolate Russian Forces
Suman Varandani
https://www.ibtimes.com/destroying-enemys-plans-ukraine-attacks-kherson-bridge-isolate-russian-forces-3588122
🙂 "You can call the Antonivskiy bridge a means of Russia air defense that intercepts all Ukrainian missiles, but you cannot escape the reality – occupiers should learn how to swim across the Dnieper River. Or should leave Kherson while it is still possible. There may not be a third warning." 🙂
See above with Misek. He Godwins a discussion by mere existence.
What the heck is the difference between "regime change" and "kick out the nazis"? Regardless of what you call it, this has always been about either annexing Ukraine, or at least setting up a puppet government.
Maybe they can install Juan Guidado as president!
So what's Putin going to do to the Ukrainians, eat them? How bad could it be?
Nearly 2 million Ukrainians, including children, have been kidnapped as war booty and sent to Russia as far as the Pacific Coast to do forced, unpaid labor, both a war crime and a crime against humanity.
Also, because many Ukrainians have nothing but what they can carry, many are pressured to renounce Ukraine and lie in defense of Putin.
'The mouth of a bear': Ukrainian refugees sent to Russia
LORI HINNANT, CARA ANNA, VASILISA STEPANENKO and SARAH EL DEEB
July 20, 2022·18 min read
https://news.yahoo.com/mouth-bear-ukrainian-refugees-sent-061717700.html
Comes back to what I was saying against piling the horrors of slavery on top of the horrors of war.
And if Putin is going to own Ukrainians, who's to tell him he can't eat them?
There is simply no right way of owning other human beings.
One wonderful thing about this story is mention of all the good Anti-Putin Russians who basically formed an Underground Railroad to provide food, clothes, shelter, transportation, and ID papers for Ukranians seeking to escape Putin's Hellscape nation. Good show! 🙂
Offer $50B and US Citizenship (if they want it) to whoever kills Putin. We are going to end up spending more than that on the war anyway.
Why wouldn't Russia want to get rid of a U.S.-installed puppet who will put NATO missiles right on Russia's border. What would we do if Russia overthrew the Mexican government and installed a puppet who would put Russian missiles on the Texas border?
Ukraine never was a prospect to be a NATO member and Russia would have to overthrow both the Mexican Government and the Cartels. Ain't happening.
Why would anyone but an aggressor fear the _defensive_ NATO alliance?