The Senate's Election Reform Bill Is Surprisingly Logical and Bipartisan
Former President Trump's attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election relied on three potential pressure points. This bill addresses all three.

Former President Donald Trump's attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election sought to exploit three potential weaknesses in the legal and political mechanisms for certifying a winner.
This week, a bipartisan group of senators formerly unveiled a proposal that, if passed, would prevent a repeat attempt from succeeding where Trump failed.
But before getting into what the proposed reforms to the Electoral Count Act would accomplish, it's probably useful to have a quick recap of how Trump (and his lawyers) attempted to undermine the existing laws, which were implemented in 1887 in response to another disputed presidential election. First, Trump pressured state election officials and state lawmakers in states where he lost, asking them to certify results showing he won. When that failed, he pressured members of Congress to object to the Electoral College results showing that Joe Biden was victorious in certain states. After that attempt didn't get enough support to succeed, he pressured (with the help of a mob) then-Vice President Mike Pence to unilaterally reject the results from supposedly disputed states.
Any one of those three plots could have resulted in Trump being declared the winner of the election on January 6, 2021—though there almost certainly would have been lawsuits asking the Supreme Court to intervene, and who knows how that would have turned out.
While a special House committee has been probing the scope of Trump's plots and the role the former president played in the ugly events of January 6, a bipartisan group of senators led by Susan Collins (R–Maine) and Joe Manchin (D–W.Va.) has been working on a fix for the procedural issues Trump's team nearly exploited to overturn the election. This is less dramatic than what the January 6th Committee has been turning up, but it is probably the more important project for the future of American democracy.
On Thursday, the group of senators released their proposal. The Electoral Count Reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act of 2022 has a number of provisions, but the most important are aimed at those three weaknesses I've already recapped.
To prevent state lawmakers from meddling with the results of an election after it has been held, the law clarifies that states must certify their results in accordance with whatever election laws are on the books when the vote is held. Recall that much of Trump's state-level efforts in 2020 were focused on getting courts to throw out mail-in ballots—or, more accurately, to create the appearance of enough uncertainty with regard to mail-in ballots that state lawmakers could use that as grounds for certifying alternative results. Under the terms of the Senate proposal, there would be less gray area surrounding which votes are counted after an election is over. That's a good thing.
Second, the bill would set a hard deadline (six days before the Electoral College meets) for states to certify their results and would prohibit state lawmakers from submitting multiple sets of electors. If state officials don't comply, the bill sets up an expedited review process to be conducted by a panel of three federal judges, who would then certify results to the Electoral College and to Congress. The bill also mandates that Congress use the results certified by those judges in the event of a dispute later on.
When it is time for Congress to certify the Electoral College vote, the bill would raise the threshold for a formal objection—like the ones issued on January 6 by a number of Trump allies. Instead of requiring merely one representative and one senator to file an objection, it would require one-fifth of the Senate and one-fifth of the House.
In short, "the aim is to close off manipulation of the process at both the state and congressional ends," explain The Washington Post's Greg Sargent and Paul Waldman.
Finally, the bill clarifies that the vice president's role in the final congressional certification of the Electoral College vote is purely ceremonial. This has remained a point of contention since January 6, with Trump claiming publicly that Pence had the authority to unilaterally overturn the results that day, while Pence has maintained that he was not allowed to do so.
The vice president "shall have no power to solely determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper list of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors," the bill reads.
Whether it can pass remains unknown. The bill has nine Republican cosponsors; one shy of the 10 GOP votes that would be required (assuming all 50 Democrats in the Senate vote for the bill) to avoid the possibility of a filibuster.
In the end, of course, any law limiting or directing the behavior of public officials is only as good as the officials charged with executing it and those charged with holding each other accountable. The government is just people; flawed, selfish, and politically motivated people.
Still, these changes make a lot of sense. The bill would clarify some of the vagueness that Trump attempted to exploit and would establish clearer boundaries for every aspect of the potentially fraught vote-certification process—which, as we all learned 18 months ago, relies on officials from the local level all the way up to the vice president of the United States.
Giving the occupants of those official positions a more precise set of rules to follow doesn't guarantee that America will avoid a constitutional crisis of the kind that the country narrowly averted in the wake of the 2020 election—but it certainly won't hurt.
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You start with the unstated assumption that everything Trump did was illegal. If state authorities have the legal means of certifying and decertifying specific votes, his pressure was not illegal. If the law you cite as unclear actually was unclear, then his interpretations were not illegal.
Knock off the bias, chump. Try to be honest for once.
January 6th pissed me off. The gaslighting about what actually happened pisses me off more, because certain parties are using it to justify demonizAtion and restrictions on their political opponents. If Trump's actions were illegal, I haven't seen any proof yet provided. It seems more that there was disagreement due to gray areas. Trump's actions were as distasteful as Kerry's in 2004 and Gore's in 2000. However, distasteful doesn't equal illegal. Make the argument that his actions were disgusting, that he was a sore loser, but don't imply they were illegal because of a difference in opinion on obscure and ambiguous laws.
So... just accept corruption to screw over the American people without making a fuss?
The entire system was in on the fix. What the hell then?
-Soap box: denied/rigged
-judicial box: denied/rigged
-ballot box: denied/rigged
"Oh well, guess The Powers That Be can't be argued against. Too bad legitimate government and our way of life is destroyed."
Is that the proper response?
The establishment, deep state, media, NGO complex, corporate America, and big tech get to call the shots, regardless of the American people's will?
All they have to do is "fortify elections to ensure the proper outcomes" and nobody else gets a fucking say?
The republic is now dead.
"We'll just blow a mild/moderate virus wildly out of proportion, flood the media with constant hysteric propaganda, forcibly close people's business by executive diktat, close off public spaces from the public, shut down schools, make everyone wear a token of submission on their faces, and mandate everyone take an experimental drug - and we'll spend trillions of taxpayer money on it! Next, we'll repeat the media propaganda effort by flooding the zone with racial strife and persecution, approve of mass rioting that lasts for weeks/months, and get all of corporate America to push race essentialism. Finally we'll censor discussion, illegally change electoral processes at the last moment, and get the courts to deny hearing any challenges. It's foolproof fortification!"
...
"What? Trump got how many more votes than he did in 2016? He's up by how much? Well shit, hold up a minute! I don't care what excuse you have to come up with, just get the observers out! Now, extend vote counting by a week. We need to... find... millions of more votes! Damn the optics, just get the entire Press to say Trump lost! We must dictate the proper result!"
If voting mattered they wouldn't let us do it. - Mark Twain
Now? It was dead from inception.
"Non-partisan" = two Democrats.
Bipartisan
There's that word again.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/19/electoral-college-faithless-electors-donald-trump
Hope this bill, or something similar passes.
I agree. At a minimum, to make absolutely clear that the VP's role is ceremonial only.
Hang Mike Pence! Don’t Fear the Revolt!
(According to The Gospel of The Donald)
Don’t fear the revolt!
(insurrection)!
All our times have come
Here, but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the revolt
Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain
(We can be like they are)
Come on, baby
(Don’t fear the revolt)
Baby, take my hand
(Don’t fear the revolt)
We’ll be able to fly
Baby, I’m your man
La, la la, la la
La, la la, la la
Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbs
Are together in eternity
(Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbitt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel
From what I've heard, the bill is unobjectionable.
That said, it is also insufficient. Trump did not try to steal an election because of these bureaucratic weaknesses, and the lack of them would not have stopped him, he would simply have tried something else.
So unobjectionable. Also rather pointless.
Yes and no. Eastman's whole argument rested on the assumption that the VP had some discretionary power to manipulate the counting of the electoral college votes. If the falsity of that assumption is finally laid to rest, that in itself is a good thing.
And my entire point is "if not this, then something else".
Trump decided to steal an election first, and went to the lawyers to find a way second. Pretending that these "weaknesses" are what caused or allowed the attempt is to confuse the order of events.
So unobjectionable. But also pointless.
Well, in Eastman's case, I think it was more like Eastman came up with the idea and presented it to Trump, and he endorsed it because it had a veneer of legitimacy and he was willing to endorse anything that would keep him in power.
I understand your point, but in the end no document can prevent a dictator from seizing power.
>> I think
when you get to I know let me know
The bill helps codify illegal actions by state actors into the system. As a Democrat I understand why you support fraudulent voting schemes.
It's the only way they can "win" elections, and they want that to be codified.
Yeet leftists.
The republic is already dead.
"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors,"
The States don't have to let the citizens vote for the Electors.
You picked one sentence and think that is the totality.
Trump's state-level efforts in 2020 were focused on getting courts to throw out mail-in ballots"
Anyone else remember when Gore tried to get the out of country military ballots thrown out. Good times. At least Trump was using actual law to get illegally collected votes invalidated.
First, Trump pressured state election officials and state lawmakers in states where he lost, asking them to certify results showing he won.
Oh, was that the FIRST thing Trump did?
Funny how the commies seem to forget that Trump predicted that the steal would happen, as the regulation changes happened and the courts refused to put a halt to it.
Then, when the steal happened, they act like Trump came up with some scheme, just because he, supposedly, lost...which he DIDN'T.
Funny how fascists seem to forget Trump said in 2016 it was rigged... unless he won.
Funny how fascists forget Trump created a voter fraud committee.
Funny how fascists forget G.W. Bush investigated voter fraud for FIVE years
>>exploit three potential weaknesses in the legal and political mechanisms for certifying a winner.
lol fuck off anything from *this* Congress changing procedure should be lit on fire and danced around.
Let's see...it sounds fine to specify what the law already clearly suggests, that the Vice-President doesn't count the votes, Congress does.
"the bill sets up an expedited review process to be conducted by a panel of three federal judges, who would then certify results to the Electoral College and to Congress. The bill also mandates that Congress use the results certified by those judges in the event of a dispute later on."
Here's a slight problem.
The electors send in their sealed ballots, the VP opens them in front of Congress, and "the votes shall then be counted." Fairly vague about what to do with rival slates of electors.
In 1876 (Hayes/Tilden disputed election) and 1887 (Electoral Count Act), it was Congress which counted the votes. Are we to switch to having the Supreme Court (or a lower court) do the counting?
Congress did appoint an electoral commission in 1876, including Supreme Court justices - surprise, surprise, the commissioners - including the justices - voted by party line.
And to think - from the standpoint of Democrats, Congress reached the "right" result in counting the votes on "the day which will live in infamy" (/sarc), Jan. 6. Imagine how much they'd freak out if Congress reached the "wrong" result!
"Fairly vague about what to do with rival slates of electors."
Actually, I think they took care of that by stating that only a slate certified by the governor of the state was official and could be counted.
Which is actually constitutionally problematic, because the Constitution DOES say that the electors will be appointed as the state legislature directs. NOT as Congress directs. So if a state legislature doesn't give their governor any role in the process, Congress can't, constitutionally, insert him into it.
There's a certain amount of fighting the last war in this bill; They concentrated on the possibility of state legislators and/or VPs being bad actors, at the cost of enabling state governors and election administrators to get away with stealing an election.
I would be fine with this provided:
State statutory election laws are narrowly construed and strictly enforced.
State executive branch officials have minimal discretion to deviate from the statutory rules.
Courts have minimal authority to alter the statutory rules.
To prevent state lawmakers from meddling with the results of an election after it has been held, the law clarifies that states must certify their results in accordance with whatever election laws are on the books when the vote is held. Recall that much of Trump's state-level efforts in 2020 were focused on getting courts to throw out mail-in ballots—or, more accurately, to create the appearance of enough uncertainty with regard to mail-in ballots that state lawmakers could use that as grounds for certifying alternative results. Under the terms of the Senate proposal, there would be less gray area surrounding which votes are counted after an election is over. That's a good thing.
This doesn't clarify much. Wisconsin and Pennsylvania courts have both ruled that the changes in election procedure in 2020 violated state laws. So that means the state wasn't in accordance with the laws on the books at the time the elections were held, and therefore cannot certify their electors. It took months in order for courts to actually address these issues, though, so the electors were certified while the legality of the election process was still at issue.
Second, the bill would set a hard deadline (six days before the Electoral College meets) for states to certify their results and would prohibit state lawmakers from submitting multiple sets of electors. If state officials don't comply, the bill sets up an expedited review process to be conducted by a panel of three federal judges, who would then certify results to the Electoral College and to Congress. The bill also mandates that Congress use the results certified by those judges in the event of a dispute later on.
But what happens if a state is still being disputed at the deadline with legal challenges? These three federal judges then get to decide who won the state?
Finally, the bill clarifies that the vice president's role in the final congressional certification of the Electoral College vote is purely ceremonial. This has remained a point of contention since January 6, with Trump claiming publicly that Pence had the authority to unilaterally overturn the results that day, while Pence has maintained that he was not allowed to do so
I'm of the opinion that this was already the case, but it's worth clarifying. This may be the only useful thing in the bill, however. I still think it's kind of worthless because the bill explicitly says that challenges to the authenticity of the ballots must come dually from a member of the House and a member of the Senate. The VP cannot challenge the authenticity. He can't even certify what envelopes are supposedly being handed to him, that happens before the ballots are handed to him. So it's an irrelevant change based on someone pushing a shitty legal theory.
And trust me, it won't stop future claims that the VP is a traitor if they read out results that a mob doesn't like. Mobs aren't rational.
The Wisconsin Supreme Court has ruled on drop boxes but has in no way suggested that previous votes should be changed. The Court had the luxury of doing this because by not back dating the decision it did not change the outcome. The fact is that is that drop boxes were used for years throughout the state with no objections from either party. It was only after the former President objected that the boxes were ruled illegal. It is also worth noting that while that case was under review the Court wavered on allowing boxes, allowing them in January 2022, but later reversing the decision.
“it's probably useful to have a quick recap of how Trump (and his lawyers) attempted to undermine the existing laws”
It really isn’t. Fucking let it go already.
We'll let it go when "Team R" lawyer-scum stop LYING in court!
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
THIS IS ALL ANYONE NEEDS TO READ
Note he spent zero time on the illegal changes to elections appointed executives made.
Reason cannot undermine the marxist agenda with reality, they're too busy proving themselves to be useful idiots for the revolution.
Maybe the law is unobjectionable, but I suspect that many would have problems, A Thinking Mind brings up some very salient points about lawsuits and how long they take to adjudicate. I would have to read the bill before I draw a conclusion one way or the other, however, that being said, even if no fraud was done (and there actually was some fraud found and more being investigated, additionally courts and/or government commissions in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania have now all ruled that the changes Trump most opposed were unlawful) the changes done in 2020 were unpalatable to almost half the population and should be addressed as well as Trump's behavior. And not by codifying those changes nationwide, like the Democrats tried last spring to do.
Maybe a good article would condemn Trump's bombast while also showing that at least some of his concerns were warranted. That is how both sides should actually be done.
The problem here is that all we really had from Trump was bombast.
We know from the January 6th hearing that his own people were telling him that him that he had lost. There is nothing to suggest that the former President had any issues that were real and rather that concerns he raised were from sycophants who had access or from conspiracy web sites. This is probably because nothing that could be considered real would have changed the outcome. Note that AG Bill Barr did not say that there was not fraud but rather none significant enough to change the election.
You are a criminal who needs to be doxxed and visited
Our Marxist population in America requires a drastic reduction.
Taking those 3 states away from Biden drops him below the 270 electoral votes needed to win.
The election of Biden was literally illegitimate.
The election was stolen, by Joe Biden. Dominion voting machines are programmed to fraudulently elect Democrats. No Democrat has won the presidency without fraud since at least Jimmy Carter. They are not a legitimate American party since they are fundamentally un-American in belief.
I'm willing to fight in a civil war to defend this truth. It won't be my first civil war, though it will be my first on the right side.
Dominion voting machines are programmed to fraudulently elect Democrats.
and Zombie Hugo Chavez himself was responsible
Can't wait for you to receive the reckoning you deserve, pedo.
If morbid obesity doesn’t finish him first.
I am personally not a huge fan of getting courts more involved with the mechanics of an election, ESPECIALLY after it has already occurred. I do not think SCOTUS should have taken up Bush v. Gore, not because I wanted Gore to win (I voted for Harry Browne), but because electoral matters should be decided by people who are actually elected. I am glad that the federal courts did not get involved with the 2020 election, it would have only made matters worse if they had. And I am glad that they didn't get involved in the 2016 election either. So I really don't like the federal judge part of this bill. There is a remedy that already exists if there is a dispute about who really won a state: the state legislature convenes and formally declares who wins that state's electoral votes. Because as IceTrey notes above, there is absolutely zero requirement according to the US Constitution that a state's electors are chosen by popular vote in a state. For the first part of this country, there wasn't even a popular election for electors - they were completely decided by state legislatures and the rabble didn't even get a vote. Obviously if the same were to happen today, there would be a massive outcry and protest. But that IS the constitutional remedy that does not involve the courts. There is no need to involve any three-judge panel.
Quite frankly, what we need in this country is fundamental, structural electoral reform. We have a national election for president in all but name only. But because there is no national standard, we are all held hostage to the shittiest state's electoral system. You don't like it that Pennsylvania or Wisconsin illegally changed their rules at the last minute and their state government couldn't get their act together to rectify this fact before it was time to certify electors? Oh well, that's just too bad. The rest of us in states that run competent elections have no recourse. We just have to deal with their stupidity. But it doesn't have to be this way.
It is beyond time to have a Constitutional Convention in this country. Our current constitution is brilliant, but it is showing its age. There are plenty of items that need updating, and how elections are run in this country is a prime example of that.
This is all true, but the far right is way ahead of you. They're actively planning for a constitutional convention if they can get enough states onboard. And it's not to make the system more democratic.
Ya man. this is why they blocked every Obama judge and stacked the hell out of the courts with young judges. It is almost as if McConnell knew Trump would win....hmm I wonder how he knew that.
People cheat for local elections, anyone think they are not cheating on the national level? Who wins is who cheats best.
Anyone going to do anything about the census count "error" resulting in a 10-12 net swing from red to blue states in the House and electoral college, or nah?
Not unless the Republicans get a veto proof majority in Congress, no. Because the Democrats sure aren't going to fix it.
Basically, they got away with it.
They always do.
They sure lose a lot for "They always do"
The census that happened when Trump was the CEO of the Census Bureau?
LOL
Hopefully this bill will go through, and future elections will not see the controversy seen in 2020. It seems to address the problem and not go overboard as sometimes happens.
I'm sure you commies want this bill to go through.
You've ben aching for integrity-proof elections, in which you can cheat, unopposed, for almost as long as there has been a LieCheatSteal party.
The GOP targets senior citizens, like scammers do, because they are the most gullible.
It's only missing one thing: "This law is not subject to review by the Supreme Court."
No mention is made of the 2004 election. Democrats engaged in the same tactics. They actually voted on not certifying the vote in Ohio. The vote failed. But it was constitutional then as it was for the 2020 election. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. Democrats then and Republicans now knew too much time would be required to investigate voting irregularities, convince state officials to decertify their electors, and most of all it would be too divisive.
Right, and they wouldn't be able to do that against without a lot more support.
That funny... Humorously if that bill was already passed Trump would've WON... It would've thrown out all those 'COVID' mystery votes by Executive Fiat election law changes.
There's a problem with the Congress, specifically the House, having decision making powers with regard to possibly fraudulent elections - their elections happened at the same time.
For members of the House, and those one-third of Senators, who just stood for election, to declare it to be fraudulent, they put their own position in legal jeopardy.
They can't very well say that the president's election was decided by fraud, but ours were pure and clean.
Well, honest, honorable, AKA non-LieCheatSteal, Congresscritters can't.
This point is often missed. Many of those claiming election fraud cite only for the Presidential race. Their own race on the same ballot is perfectly fine.
Or perhaps it had more to do with IN-PERSON running almost 100% in direct contrast to "mystery" mail votes.
I will vote strategically and reluctantly for Biden.
--Eric Boehm
In our system, states run elections.
So if a Secretary of State is in error, it is up to the other units of state government to correct the error. If the final determination of the state is that no, the Secretary of State was not in error, then that is the determination that the federal government has to use.
If that is still not sufficient, the Electoral College itself can decide what to do.
If that is still not sufficient, then the state sends multiple disputed electors and the three-judge panel works it out.
And if that is still not sufficient then tough noogies.
You mean like with lawsuit regarding the election laws ignored by lack of standing?
It is up to the state to decide how to resolve their issues.
Now, I am totally open to considering other models for how to run elections. Perhaps, say, a single national standard for mail-in voting? So that a state's SOS cannot change the rules at the last minute? But I understand that most on Team Red would probably oppose that idea.
You mean like somebody from Texas suing Pennsylvania over their vote. Pretty obvious there’s no standing there.
It is not the courts responsibility to establish standing it is the attorney's. Get better attorneys.
Yes. Let's talk about that one instead of the many examples of states ruling 2020 election changes were illegal since then.
Some of you are in serious states of denial.
Eat lead, bevis.
That's the system you're asking for.
It's an election for the President of the US, not Pennsylvania, so the standing question is not necessarily regional. Also, this rejoinder ignores that these changes were made often due to court cases that also came from people outside the districts in which the changes were implemented.
The states did decide through election last. Then politicians made illegal changes on those due to covid.
Is this new to you despite the many links you've been given.
I am all for state election laws. I dont even have a problem with the electoral clause stating means and manner belong to state legislatures.
The fact was many laws were violated. The left has a long history of using the judicial system to undo state laws on elections.
You seem to still be in denial of this.
The fact was many laws were violated.
That is not what state courts found at the time.
The fact is that many of the laws used in election already existed. These laws found more use during the pandemic and that what upset the losers. Everyone accepted the laws before when most votes were cast in person. Some found fault with the laws after the fact.
They dismissed them due to standing prior dummy.
We have been over this time and time again.
But it *is* what courts have been finding as challenges with standing make their way through the system.
E.g.,
https://law.justia.com/cases/wisconsin/supreme-court/2022/2022ap000091.html
¶6 In spring 2020, many people wanted to minimize their time spent inpublic spaces due to the COVID-19 pandemic. For this reason, more voters wanted to vote absentee for the spring 2020 election than had voted absentee in past elections. In response, WEC Administrator Meagan Wolfe issued the first document ("Memo one"), which was directed to municipal clerks and other local election officials. The memo states: "[Ballot] drop boxes can be used for voters to return ballots but clerks should ensure they are secure, can be monitored for security purposes, and should be regularly emptied." It also says, "[a] family member or another person may...return the [absentee] ballot on behalf of a voter." WEC's commissioners never voted to adopt this memo.
¶7 A few months later, Administrator Wolfe and the assistant administrator issued the second document ("Memo two") ahead of the fall 2020 election. It encourages "creative solutions" to facilitate the use of ballot drop boxes. Specifically, Memo two informs municipal clerks that drop boxes can be "unstaffed,"and states "[a]t a minimum, you should have a drop box at your primary municipal building, such as the village hall." WEC commissioners never voted on Memo two either.
¶49Third, the legislature knows how to write a statute accomplishing the work DRW would have Wis. Stat. §5.06 perform. SeeState v. Yakich, 2022 WI8, ¶24, 400 Wis.2d549, 970 N.W.2d12 (explaining plain meaning may be derived by looking at differences between two statutes and noting "the legislature knew how to draft [different] language"
...
¶53Subchapter IV of chapter 6 of the Wisconsin statutes begins with a statement of legislative policy that cannot be reconciled with the statements of policy contained in WEC's memos:
LEGISLATIVE POLICY. The legislature finds that voting is a constitutional right, the vigorous exercise of which should be strongly encouraged. In contrast, voting by absentee ballot is a privilege exercised wholly outside the traditional safeguards of the polling place. The legislature finds that the privilege of voting by absentee ballot must be carefully regulated to prevent the potential for fraud or abuse; to prevent overzealous solicitation of absent electors who may prefer not to participate in an election; to prevent undue influence on an absent elector to vote for or against a candidate or to cast a particular vote in a referendum; or other similar abuses.
The statutory requirements governing absentee voting must be completely satisfied or ballots may not be counted:
INTERPRETATION. Notwithstanding s. 5.01 (1), with respect to matters relating to the absentee ballot process, ss. 6.86, 6.87 (3) to (7) and 9.01 (1) (b) 2. and 4. shall be construed as mandatory. Ballots cast in contravention of the procedures specified in those provisions may not be counted. Ballots counted in contravention of the procedures specified in those provisions may not be included in the certified result of any election.
§6.84(2). "[M]andatory" election requirements "must be strictly adhered to" and "strictly observed." State ex rel. Ahlgrimm v. State Elections Bd., 82 Wis.2d585,592–93, 263 N.W.2d152 (1978).
¶54 Despite these provisions, no defendant can point to any statute authorizing ballot drop boxes; instead, the defendants argue no statute expressly prohibits them. The absence of an express prohibition, however, does not mean drop boxes comport with "the procedures specified" in the election laws. Wis. Stat. §6.84(2). Nothing in the statutory language detailing the procedures by which absentee ballots may be cast mentions drop boxes or anything like them.
B. The Merits
WEC's staff may have been trying to make voting as easy as possible during the pandemic, but whatever their motivations, WEC must follow Wisconsin statutes. Good intentions never override the law.[25]
[25]Justice Ann Walsh Bradley accuses the court of "erect[ing] yet another barrier for voters," dissent, ¶205, but to the extent any "barriers" to voting exist, they are of the legislature's making. Establishing rules governing the casting of ballots outside of election day rests solely within the power of the people's representatives because such regulations affect only the privilege of absentee voting and not the right to vote itself. Justice Ann Walsh Bradley says "[a] ballot drop box is a simple and perfectly legal solution to make voting easier[.]" Id., ¶207. While they might be a simple solution, the decision to devise solutions to make voting easier belongs to the legislature, not WEC and certainly not the judiciary. While the dissenters would permit ballot drop boxes, the court must respect the constitutional restraints on our power and refuse to act as a super-legislature. It poses a grave threat to democracy to mislead the people into believing we are one.
Right. So the courts did not find that laws were broken. Based on the state's procedures, the election results were the correct ones.
Again it's up to the state to decide.
If you don't like how a state ran its own election, then there is a solution, but you're not gonna like it...
Thank you for proving you dont understand how the legal process works.
Based on the states courts the changes were illegal. Full stop.
It was not ruled on the merits prior.
You really are ignorant to most topics you opine on.
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The determination of the state *at the time* was that the election results were the correct ones.
Are you starting to get it, Jesse?
In the way elections are run in this country, every state has a great deal of flexibility to do its own thing. So if the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania wants to choose its electors with last-minute rule changes and a shitty judicial system with bullshit rulings, that is what we all have to endure. You, being a citizen from Arizona, don't get a say, even though it obviously matters to ALL of us who the next president is.
There is a solution to this problem, but you aren't going to like it. Because it means thinking beyond your right-wing assumptions. It means having a serious conversation about modernizing how we do elections from the bottom up. It means putting everything on the table, including the insane deference to federalism on the issue of national elections, including the Electoral College. But you won't go for that because you will complain that it is a librul plot to steal your vote. So you will do nothing except bitch and moan about Pennsylvania while nothing changes.
Jeff. You do realize a ruling on standing is not a ruling on merits right? Yes or no?
The state did not say the changes were legal at any time.
What are you struggling w here?
In the way elections are run in this country, every state has a great deal of flexibility to do its own thing.
Determined by the legislature, not the state executive.
What are you struggling with here?
The state did not say the changes were legal at any time.
As of Dec. 14, 2020 - when the Electoral College met? The state government *in its entirety* - meaning all branches of government - changed its electoral procedures, held an election, certified Joe Biden's electors as the winners based on the result of that election, and declined to change that certification when asked to do so. So yes, the changes were legal, at that time, as determined by the entirety of the state government.
This is what you simply cannot grasp. There is a fundamental contradiction between electoral federalism - letting each state run its own elections - and consistency of electoral standards. Under electoral federalism, everyone is held hostage to the shittiest state with the shittiest standards. If you think what the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania did was a travesty, but you don't live in Pennsylvania, then tough noogies - you have no say and you have no choice but to accept their result. If you don't want the state government of Pennsylvania to be able to get away again with what they did, there are two solutions:
1. Move to Pennsylvania and work to change things
2. Advocate for a different system for how national elections are run
Which one are you going to choose?
Determined by the legislature, not the state executive.
No - based on current interpretation, the entirety of the state government is responsible for conducting an election, based on the authority of the state constitution, and on what the state legislature delegates to each part. So if the state legislature says "The hours of operation of polling places shall be set by the Secretary of State", and the Secretary of State decides to set the hours of operation to be 10am to 3pm, it is not an unconstitutional usurpation of power that the polls aren't open earlier or later than that simply because the state legislature didn't explicitly specify the hours of operation. That is the current interpretation anyway. Don't worry, SCOTUS is going to rule on this interpretation next year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_state_legislature_theory
If you actually support the Independent State Legislature theory, then you probably ought to explain why you think that not just the executive, but neither the judiciary, nor even the state constitution, should play any role in how elections are run in the state. That seems patently absurd to me. But hey, maybe you have a good answer to this question.
As we are all reminded, there is no national election for president. States vote for their own electors. So no, Texas does not get a say in who Pennsylvania chooses for their electors.
The actions of one state impacts all states. And they had as much standing as the parties that sued in the first place to get the changes made that Texas opposed. You obviously skipped the entire second half of my post. Which is typical of someone who doesn't want an honest discussion but rather is engaged in dishonest concourse based upon partisanship and ideology.
Actually, there is no requirement that states even vote for their electors.
"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress..."
A state legislature might choose to allow the sitting Governor to simply appoint the electors, or to let the State House to nominate a slate of electors and the State Senate to select the requisite number of electors from the slate.
Or a state might hold elections.
Further, a state may choose to appoint the electors based on a winner-take-all approach. Or they might appoint them based on per-district results. Or proportionally to the overall vote.
And it is a National election, in that it is a national office. It is held in each state, but it is still national, what we don't have is a popular vote. We elect electors to represent each state, but the election itself is national. Your confusing process with outcomes. Because it suits your desires in this case. Because by ruling on standing, you dishonestly claim Trump lost this case on merit, rather than standing, which are two different things, which Jesse told you multiple times. Because you can't be honest about it.
The second half of your post made no sense in the context of Texas vs. Pennsylvania. No one sued Pennsylvania to force them to change their election procedures. They chose to do so on their own.
The actions of one state impacts all states.
In our system, this alone is not enough of a justification for standing of one state to challenge the results in another state.
II. The Majority's Error in Trump¶124Although the memos should not have the force of law, the majority erroneously concluded otherwise in Trump. In that case, Donald Trump, the incumbent President, and his campaign appealed the results of a recount in two Wisconsin counties. 394 Wis.2d629, ¶¶5–6 (majority op.). The ballots President Trump sought to strike fell into four categories; two are most relevant in this case. First, he argued "that a form used for in-person absentee voting [wa]s not a 'written application' and therefore all in-person absentee ballots should be struck." Id., ¶2. Second, President Trump argued "that municipal officials improperly added witness information on absentee ballot certifications, andthat these ballots [wer]e therefore invalid." Id.
A majority of this court refused to consider whether the form utilized for in-person absenteevoting, EL-122, constituted a written application. It noted, "both counties did use an application form created, approved, and disseminated by the chief Wisconsin elections agency." Id., ¶15. The majority emphasized "local election officials used form EL-122 in reliance on longstanding guidance from WEC." Id., ¶25. Therefore, it concluded, "[p]enalizing the voters election officials serve and the other candidates who relied on this longstanding guidance is beyond unfair." Id."To strike ballots castin reliance on the guidance now, and to do so in only two counties, would violate every notion of equity that undergirds our electoral system." Id.In Trump, a majority of this court allowed its notions of "equity" and "unfair[ness]" to trump the law.
¶128Under Trump, statements from WEC'sstaff were transformed intosuper-statutes, trumpingthe actual law."Rather than fulfilling its duty to say what the law is, a majority of this court unconstitutionally converts the Wisconsin Elections Commission's mere advice into governing 'law,'thereby supplanting the actual election laws enacted by the people's elected representatives in the legislature and defying the will of Wisconsin's citizens. When the state's highest court refuses to uphold the law, and stands by while an unelected body of six commissioners rewrites it, our system of representative government is subverted." Id., ¶140 (Rebecca Grassl Bradley, J., dissenting).
¶130At the same time the majority aggrandized its "equitable" powers, it ceded its law declaring function to unelected bureaucrats. According to the Trumpmajority, the judiciary may not even opine on the validity of purported guidance once voters have relied on it. In so ruling, the majority neglected its constitutional duty to declare the meaning of law, insteadelevating "guidance[] given by an unelected committee" to the status of supreme law, which must be followed in derogation of enacted statutes.
The majority grievously injured the rule of law in Trump, which the court should acknowledge and correct.
A majority of this court defenestrated the people's ability to defend their laws. Trumpshould be overruled to restore the people's supremacy over their public servants. I respectfully concur. ¶
144I am authorized to state that Chief Justice ANNETTE KINGSLAND ZIEGLER and Justice PATIENCE DRAKE ROGGENSACK join this concurrence.
Reminder that the above poster committed vote fraud as a poll worker in Madison, WI.
Reminder that the above poster committed vote fraud as a poll worker in Madison, WI.
Until the Civil War, South Carolina did have the legislature choose the electors. It was the last holdout except maybe for some Reconstruction messes.