After a SCOTUS Rebuke, New York Imposes Oppressive New Restrictions on the Right To Bear Arms
"I don't need to have numbers," Gov. Kathy Hochul said when asked about the evidence supporting the law.

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul last week signed legislation that supposedly complies with the Supreme Court's recent ruling against her state's restrictions on carrying guns in public. In New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, decided on June 23, the Court said New York's "proper cause" requirement for carry permits violated the Second Amendment. New York's law, the majority noted, gave local officials broad discretion to reject applications, transforming "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" into a privilege for the few.
The new law preserves much of that discretion under a different name, and it creates an expansive list of "sensitive locations" where guns are prohibited, making it difficult or impossible even for permit holders to carry firearms for self-defense. By failing to take the Court's objections to the old policy seriously, New York is inviting another constitutional challenge.
"This measure will, among other punitive and prohibitive provisions, broadly expand…the onerous burdens to acquire government permission slips for the exercise of fundamental rights [and] throttle the locations New Yorkers might actually exercise those rights," says the Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC). "New Yorkers' natural rights [are] of paramount importance, whether the tyrants in Albany think so or not. The governor and her cadre of anti-rights legislators should have no doubt that FPC will utilize every available instrument to remedy this historic wrong."
Under S.B. 51001, carry-permit applicants no longer have to show "proper cause" for bearing arms, which state courts had interpreted to mean more than a general interest in self-defense. But applicants still have to demonstrate "good moral character," newly defined as "having the essential character, temperament and judgment necessary to be entrusted with a weapon and to use it only in a manner that does not endanger oneself or others." Toward that end, the law requires "no less than four character references who can attest to the applicant's good moral character."
Those references are not necessarily decisive. In addition to passing background checks and completing firearms training, applicants must submit "a list of former and current social media accounts" from the previous three years "to confirm the information regarding the applicant's character and conduct." It is not hard to imagine how licensing officials might use such information, possibly including unseemly firearm enthusiasm or intemperate political remarks, in assessing whether an applicant should be "entrusted with a weapon."
Licensing officials are also authorized to require "other information" that is "reasonably necessary and related to the review of the licensing application." If they decide not to grant a license, the applicant has 90 days to request a hearing before an appeals board created by the commissioner of criminal justice services and the state police superintendent. Those officials are charged with writing the rules governing the appeals process, which probably will not be friendly to spurned applicants.
If a gun owner successfully jumps through the state's hoops, he will be authorized to carry a concealed weapon outside his home. But not on government property or in health care facilities, houses of worship, libraries, playgrounds, parks, zoos, museums, child care facilities, schools (including college campuses), public transportation vehicles or stations, bars or restaurants licensed to serve alcohol, sports or entertainment venues, amusement parks, casinos or racetracks, conference centers, banquet halls, protest locations, or "the area commonly known as Times Square." A permit holder will not even be allowed to carry a gun on sidewalks when they have been "restricted from general public access for a limited time or special event," which happens on a regular basis in New York City.
Possessing a gun in any of those "sensitive locations" is a Class E felony, punishable by up to four years in prison. Any license holder who wants to take advantage of his newly granted permission to carry a handgun for self-defense will have to think long and hard about whether he might enter or traverse any of those locations after leaving home. And if he specifically wants to protect himself or others while attending church, riding public transportation, visiting Times Square, or engaging in the many other activities that the state has deemed inconsistent with possessing a gun, he will have to recognize that he is risking a felony charge that could upturn his life and send him to prison.
The same law contradictorily states that owners of "private property" may choose to allow guns, provided they post notices to that effect. But that is plainly not true if the private property happens to fall into one of the categories defined as "sensitive locations."
Hochul says the law "makes 'no carry' the default for private property, unless [guns are] deemed permissible by property owners." That policy, she claims, "gives power to business and property owners to decide whether or not they want guns in their establishments, which could include bars, restaurants, shops or grocery stores." But the state has already made that decision for restaurant owners with liquor licenses, and bar owners likewise will not have a choice in the matter unless they operate one of those rare taverns that do not serve alcoholic beverages. The state likewise is overriding the discretion of property owners who show movies, present plays, host concerts or games, display art or animals, let people gamble, educate or edify them, etc.
Hochul does not bother to justify all these restrictions. In a press-conference exchange with Anne McCloy, a news anchor at the CBS station in Albany, the governor said she did not need any evidence suggesting that carry-permit holders—law-abiding by definition—are implicated in the gun violence she claims to be preventing.
"Do you have the numbers to show that it's the concealed-carry permit holders that are committing crimes?" McCloy asked. She noted that "the lawful gun owner will say that you're attacking the wrong person," that "it's really the people that are getting these guns illegally that are causing the violence, not the people going and getting the permit legally." That distinction, McCloy suggested, "is the basis for the whole Supreme Court argument."
Hochul's response was revealing. "I don't need to have numbers," she said. "I don't have to have a data point to point to to say this is going to [matter]. All I know is that I have a responsibility to the people of this state to have sensible gun safety laws….I don't need a data point to make the case that I have a responsibility to protect the people of this state." In other words, good intentions are all that matters, even if you cannot offer reasons to think they will generate good results.
Hochul seems to entirely miss the point that the Supreme Court made in Bruen, which ruled out the sort of "interest-balancing" approach that she is clumsily applying. According to the Court, the constitutional test for a gun control law is not whether politicians or judges think its benefits will outweigh the burden it imposes on Second Amendment rights. The test is whether the law is analogous to restrictions that have traditionally been viewed as consistent with the right to keep and bear arms. When a law makes it nearly impossible to exercise that right, as New York's former policy did and its new policy will, "numbers" or "data point[s]," even if they are apposite and persuasive, cannot justify it.
The "sensitive locations" ploy, which Hochul says was developed after "extensive discussions with constitutional and policy experts," tries to take advantage of a distinction that the Court drew in the landmark Second Amendment case District of Columbia v. Heller. Writing for the majority, Justice Antonin Scalia said "nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions," such as "laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings." But under Bruen's logic, that exception does not allow a state to multiply the number of "sensitive places" to the point that actually carrying a gun for self-defense, even with a permit, is legally perilous.
Hochul obviously is no fan of Bruen, which she describes as "a reckless decision" that "remov[ed] century-old limitations on who is allowed to carry concealed weapons in our state—senselessly sending us backward and putting the safety of our residents in jeopardy." Hochul nevertheless is obliged to obey that decision. Instead she is begging for a lawsuit to make her.
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Shit like this should come with a penalty. Like, if you go back to federal court, lose based on the precedent, you get fined for contempt of supreme court or some shit.
Oh well, I'm not dictator. Instead she just gets to grandstand and all the legal fees will be paid by taxpayers.
I'm sure there's a word for rebelling against the legitimate constitutional government...
Since this is being done by a leftist I believe the term is peaceful protest.
Not enough things have been lit on fire for it to be a peaceful protest.
"Mostly" peaceful.
Right - she's disrespecting our government institutions, specifically the SCOTUS, and the Constitution to which she took an oath to defend.
It's insurrection, even if she is using the authority she's been given via the election; the Democrats told us this is insurrection and grounds for impeachment, even if she was out of office, and she should no longer run again as a result. Just like they say for Trump. The difference is Trump left office at the end of his term and didn't defy the SCOTUS. New Yorkers get what they voted for, and I hope they learn from the results, if not, things will get worse and then they might learn.
"I'm sure there's a word for rebelling against the legitimate constitutional government..."
Does it rhyme with Reason?
They'll lose for a slightly different reason.
The penalty is supposed to be you get voted out of office. That's the real fundamental problem with democracy: A constitution exists to give you rights that protect you from the tyranny of the majority, but the people in charge of applying and safeguarding those rights are the majority. The whole thing hinges on the idea that you can convince a large group of people to suppress their desire to wield power against those they don't like because some day the shoe might be on the other foot. It might true and you might convince a lot of people that it is so, but a lot of people are stupid, and there's a lot of power to be accumulated by those that cultivate that stupid.
Or perhaps lose all of your constitutional rights, if you've voted for a law that was later deemed unconstitutional.
So I just heard that Bette Midler suddenly realized that if she has to let me into her exclusive space, that her space isn't as exclusive as she thought. Oh and Macy Gray, too. I love watching these women pulling off the road when they realize they don't like where the taillights of the culture are taking them.
It's entertaining, like watching a snake eat itself.
Eh, more like watching a snake suddenly disappear into a hole because it just realized IT'S on the menu.
Wait what?
Legal, but impossible.
Hochul is why the 2A exists.
What’s funny is Justice Thomas believes we have had a right to “keep and carry guns” this whole time and that it apparently has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment! Heller and McDonald and Bruen were unnecessary…unless the right to “keep and bear” is superior to “keep and carry”. Such a head scratcher. 😉
When I go down to the 7-11, I bear arms in a holster hidden inside my coat.
So is “keep and bear” superior to “keep and carry”?? Because according to Justice Thomas we have had the right to keep and carry guns this whole time and it apparently had nothing to do with the 2A…so that means Thomas believes we have unenumerated rights that emanate from privileges and immunities all citizens have. Btw, Cruikshank makes the same case while explicitly stating the right to keep and carry arms has nothing to do with the 2A…such a head scratcher. 😉
"So is “keep and bear” superior to “keep and carry”?"
No, but neither is keep and carry superior. In this context, they are exactly equal, they mean the same thing.
So why would Taney write “keep and carry” instead of “keep and bear”?? Do you think he didn’t have a copy of the Bill of Rights handy?? And keep in mind Taney/Thomas are asserting this right existed prior to the 14A when the BoR didn’t apply to the states…and if the 2A was an outlier that did apply to the states why was McDonald necessary?? Such a head scratcher. 😉
Is it unalienable or inalienable?
you insufferable twat
Because he had a thesaurus handy? Because he wanted to state it in a way that modern people are more likely to understand correctly without changing what it means?
Your complaint is nonsense because "keep and bear" and "keep and carry" mean exactly the same thing. There isn't the tinniest smidge of difference in what they mean.
So incorporation wasn’t necessary, right? Such a head scratcher. 😉
Your entire line of reasoning is a head scratcher.
Stop thinking like a progressive Democrat and things will start making sense again.
So incorporation wasn’t necessary, right?
Of course it was necessary--otherwise people in government would attempt to infringe on inborn rights.
Yes, it was. All of amendments 1-9 limited only the federal government(everywhere, not just in federal territories) before the ratification of 14A.
From what I've read, SCOTUS had signaled an intent to incorporate the entire bill of rights against the states all in one go shortly after ratification of 14A then changed it's mind for unknown reasons.
The issue was ignored until after WWI then SCOTUS adopted the doctrine of piecemeal, case by case incorporation in the 1920s.
What is your point? "Carry" and "bear" are synonymous.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.
I’m a Trump Republican.
This is the new progressive gaslighting, write something completely progressive and when pushed, claim to be a Trump Republican, I've seen it a number of times recently in numerous comment sections. It is blatantly obvious that these are simply socks but obviously they think it's clever. It really isn't.
Ah, more disingenuous prog mental gymnastics to try and twist meanings of words to invent something that doesn’t exist.
He's right. The second amendment doesn't even presume to grant our right to self-defense. It acknowledges the right as already existing, and it had better, since we had just overthrown a foreign tyrant with our privately-owned firearms.
-jcr
Actually the 2A is a response to the events that transpired at Lexington and Concord…Taney is referring to an individual right and not the 2A which is a federalism provision.
What’s funny is Justice Thomas believes we have had a right to “keep and carry guns” this whole time and that it apparently has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment!
This is correct.
You have the right to keep and carry arms from birth.
The Second Amendment exists to make sure government does not attempt to abridge that inborn right.
Someone will challenge it and I hope that the SCOTUS will finally let the hammer down on these types of gun legislations prevalent in blue states.
What if the states play whack-a-mole? Looks like that's going to be NY's strategy. "Don't like it? Well let's just get the same outcome a different way. Can't do that either? We've already written a dozen pieces of legislation that do the same thing. Strike this one down? We enact another. Enforce that until it's struck down, then pass the next one on the list. Write more when the list gets short. We've got all the time in the world."
The SC should include a permanent injunction against further violations of the Constitution with each finding of a violation. Breaking the injunction is contempt of court, punished by jail for contempt of court until the end of the official's term.
Pretty sure this (injunction) isn’t even necessary because anyone can sue her now for violating their constitutional rights. Hopefully the lawsuits will start rolling in, but she must know this is going to happen which makes you wonder if she already has the state court judges in her pockets , in which case they need to be investigated and removed from the bench.
This. It doesn't cost Hochul anything to be a conniving shithead. It's not like she loses political capital. She can do this forever, costing the taxpayers ludicrous amounts of money by fighting it out in court. It might even be popular enough among the progressive class to improve her odds of reelection.
Us Democrats fuck you over
You pay to prosecute.
Its a great scam!
"What if the states play whack-a-mole? Looks like that's going to be NY's strategy. "Don't like it? Well let's just get the same outcome a different way. Can't do that either? We've already written a dozen pieces of legislation that do the same thing. Strike this one down? We enact another. Enforce that until it's struck down, then pass the next one on the list. Write more when the list gets short. We've got all the time in the world.""
"Why did SCOTUS strike down Roe" some asked.
THIS is why.
They foresaw THIS happening in regards to abortion.
IANAL but it seems plausible that someone could ask for an emergency restraining order against the new laws, be rejected, appeal it, and be at the Supreme Court within days; who would approve the TRO, leaving New York as Constitutional Carry until they wise up to the new reality.
and be at the Supreme Court within days
Supreme Court is not in session.
Well, they do still hear emergency habeas corpus petitions, like in capital punishment cases. So... maybe?
You ANAL? I don't ANAL.
Heh...I'd like to see those location restrictions enforced against the existing NYC carry permit holders. You know, those privileged few like Sulzberger.
The Highland Park shooter should be allowed to carry his gun into the courtroom…otherwise the 2nd Amendment is a second class right!!
He should get to desecrate an American flag in the courtroom, rightm
Ladies and gentlemen, a I present to you a prima facie example of stupid.
and say whatever he wants, otherwise the first amendment is a second class right.
And have an abortion on the floor in front of the judge, otherwise the...*checks notes* 14th amendment is a second class right.
Or take a dump on the judge's desk while wearing a dress, otherwise his 9th amendment unenumerated rights to be trans and take a dump on a judge's desk is a second class right.
Innocent until proven guilty!! Maybe someone attempted to take his gun and he was acting in self defense?? He should get to keep a gun in his prison cell…we cannot allow Pritzker and his ugly cousin relegate the 2A to a second class right!!
I know, right? You've helped open my eyes as to what becomes a second class right!
However, I will sleep well at night knowing that trapping people in a building and lighting on fire remains a first class right if I'm doing it in the name of St. George.
Psst, I hear the Illinois shooter tried to duck into a women's bathroom... while wearing women's clothes (not defined) to "avoid detection". I say he was making sure his 9th amendment rights remained FIRST class.
Does that mean Bonny Prince Charlie was transgender because he/she dressed as a woman to escape the British??
Yes, bigot.
I wonder if he tucked??
Probably a good idea for you to check Amazon for availability of of brain, asshole.
So, what's the username on your Washington Post account? You sound exactly like the idiots who post there.
I really can’t take you seriously. This much dishonesty and stupidity together is rising to Hirono levels.
She doesn’t need to know any numbers. Does she not trust the science?
Somebody learned from Cuomo.
Wonder if she’s getting rapey too.
Funny how this never translates to smaller class sizes.
Why on earth would they come back? The mask is off.
ummmm, what does class size have to do with anything, unless you are infantilizing all kids as special needs
smaller class sizes has nothing to do with helping students, it's about creating more union dues paying teacher positions.
the real solution is to segregate the actual special needs kids out of regular classrooms. Get back to what worked
Depends on the class. For young kids I think it helps to have a smaller class. Much over 20 in a classroom and it's hard to keep track.
She is clearly chanelling the late George Wallace.
By failing to take the Court's objections to the old policy seriously, New York is inviting another constitutional challenge.
I don't think New York cares.
At this point, New York Politicians, and Hochul in particular see themselves as Billy Beane. Hochul is essentially saying to America, "I can do this aaaaall day."
Just let NY go, already.
Let them all go; NY, NJ, DL, CT...I can see two options for this country:
Either it splits, between progressive Democrat States such as those mentioned above and the majority of the United States, or between urban and everyone else.
Or we harken to a truly federalist system, in which we would do well to maintain a common defense and currency.
Put them all in Manhattan ‘Escape From NY’ style and leave them to themselves. Or send them to Antarctica.
"a list of former and current social media accounts" from the previous three years "to confirm the information regarding the applicant's character and conduct." It is not hard to imagine how licensing officials might use such information, possibly including unseemly firearm enthusiasm or intemperate political remarks, in assessing whether an applicant should be "entrusted with a weapon."
It doesn't matter HOW they'll use it, they shouldn't have it, full stop, end of discussion. But sure, keep searching for that left/libertarian alliance. DeSantis used his authoritarian crazy-pants ideas to allow you to choose to wear a mask or not. These guys want to implement a social credit score. If the former scares you more than the latter, then there's probably nothing I can do for you.
Yes, it is wrong that Team Blue here wants to use protected speech to evaluate the "character and conduct" of gun permit applicants. EVEN IF one were to concede the advisability of the government to issue permits for the privilege of owning a gun, using protected speech to do so is highly problematic.
Good thing Team Red doesn't do this, right? Except... they kinda do. There is another class of individuals for whom protected speech is used to evaluate their "character and conduct" for purposes of granting a permission, and that is with illegal immigrants, legal visitors, and noncitizens generally. Take for example, the case of Ravi Ragbir.
https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ice-ravi-ragbir-deportation-first-amendment/
And in general, noncitizens and non-legal residents don't have the robust protection of the First Amendment. So whatever free speech that these noncitizens and non-legal residents may speak is subject to government scrutiny to judge the "character and conduct" of those individuals to decide whether they ought to be granted the permission to come or remain here, *even though* speech is a fundamental natural right regardless of whatever the First Amendment says.
But this is already the law of the land. So you won't hear Team Red demanding that the government have the power to pore through the social media pages of these people, because they already got their way, a long time ago.
That is why these comparisons, of continually pointing out that Team Blue demands crazy shit but Team Red doesn't demand as much crazy shit therefore Team Blue is just whackadoodle and Team Red is sane by comparison, is fundamentally not a fair comparison, because it does not consider the status quo that is already baked into the cake. The status quo, with all of its inherent injustices, is treated instead as normative. It is absolutely true that Team Blue demands a lot of crazy shit. It *seems* like Team Red is demanding less crazy shit, from time to time, because they don't have to demand their crazy shit already embedded in the status quo!
Fundamentally, this is a right-of-center country, with a few islands of left-wing craziness here and there.
What makes that a Team Red thing?
Illegal immigrants are criminals, so review of their behaviors is part of investigating their crimes.
I don't give a shit about foreigners
Ravi Ragbir.
Looked him up. Seems that he's a financial fraudster who should be deported no matter what he's got to say.
-jcr
Well, clearly Team Blue is on the defensive here. And that is a good thing. The right to self-defense is a natural right that all people are endowed with, and the Second Amendment is merely the actualization of that right. To be clear, we have the right to own guns not because of the Second Amendment; we have the right to own guns because we have the natural right to defend ourselves, along with property rights to have full physical control over items that we legally acquire.
However, a goodly chunk of the nation is unhappy and upset with this result, and to them, 2022 is a lot like 1973 was for the pro-life crowd: the Supreme Court attempting to enforce a cultural value on the whole nation that they reject and don't think should apply to them; moreover, that they firmly believe will lead to the unnecessary and untimely death of untold numbers of victims.
So will the pendulum just continue to swing back and forth, with no equilibrium state in sight? Or can there possibly be a state of affairs in which the vast middle are reasonably content with the state of affairs (the fringe nutters will never be mollified of course)?
So will the pendulum just continue to swing back and forth, with no equilibrium state in sight?
Yes. The progressives want to do away with separation of powers and with checks and balances. They despise the Constitution because it limits what government can do. They want an administrative state run by disinterested bureaucrats with no accountability to the people. A dictatorship run by experts.
Conservatives want to do away with the administrative state and return to a government that more closely resembles what the framed in the Constitution.
Libertarians want to take over the world and then leave you alone.
So will be no equilibrium because the two major factions have a totally and completely different view of what government should look like.
Noteworthy non-response from Jeffy.
Word
I highly recommend "The Conservative Sensibility" by George Will. The audiobook was over 20 hours. Took a couple thousand miles in the car to "read" it. But it's a well written book. It's full of history and it does a good job of explaining different points of view without ascribing evil intentions to either side. That and the left absolutely hated it. That's reason enough to check it out.
Also The Political Orphanage. That's a podcast not a book, done by Andrew Heaton who you know from Reason videos.
https://politicalorphanage.libsyn.com/
no thanks, the purpose of his book is to reinforce the red team as controlled opposition that conserves Democrat policies
However, a goodly chunk of the nation is unhappy and upset with this result, and to them, 2022 is a lot like 1973 was for the pro-life crowd: the Supreme Court attempting to enforce a cultural value on the whole nation that they reject and don't think should apply to them; moreover, that they firmly believe will lead to the unnecessary and untimely death of untold numbers of victims.
Except that this is completely wrong.
The rate of gun ownership is growing.
This means that more and more people understand that the Supreme Court was not attempting to enforce anything but were removing unconstitutional impediments to the exercise of rights that people were born with.
Ilhan Omar got booed onstage at a concert featuring Somali singer Soldaan Seraar in Minnesota last night.
People in the crowd chanted "Get out!" & shouted "Get the f*ck out of here!".
https://twitter.com/LeftismForU/status/1543546901424914432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
It's funny because they remember that her dad ran a concentration camp and literally murdered at leas a few family members of people in the crowd.
Yeah, that came out several days ago. What's funny about Omar is she wasn't elected by the local Somali population, she was elected because of white progressives. Your average Somali immigrant isn't going to have a lot of trouble defining what a woman is.
more Somali immigrants!
they hate me that much too!
Mexico President: Free Assange Or Dismantle Statue Of Liberty
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/mexico-president-free-assange-or-dismantle-statue-liberty
“If they don’t do it, they will be tarnished and we will have to start the campaign that, if they take him to the US, and sentence him to the maximum sentence [to] die in prison, they will have to dismantle the Statue of Liberty that the French delivered...because it is no longer a symbol of freedom."
López Obrador pledged to make his own personal appeal. “I want to state that I am going to ask President Biden to address this matter. I am aware that it goes against the severe hardliners that exist in the United States as in all countries, but humanism must also prevail,” he said.
He has previously indicated his willingness to grant Assange humanitarian asylum and Mexican citizenship.
It's not the first time López Obrador has invoked the Statue of Liberty in criticizing political conditions in the United States.
Referring to social media firms de-platforming then-sitting U.S. president Donald Trump in January 2021, he said, "I don’t know if you’ve noticed that since they took these decisions, the Statue of Liberty in New York is turning green with anger, because it doesn’t want to become an empty symbol.”
A consistent Western gadfly, in June López Obrador condemned NATO's "immoral" proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. “How easy it is to say, 'Here, I’ll send you this much money for weapons.' Couldn’t the war in Ukraine have been avoided? Of course it could...'I'll supply the weapons, and you supply the dead.' It is immoral.”
Hey Mexico, start dealing with the foreigners passing through your country or we'll install laserbeam eyes into the Statue of Liberty and point it in your direction.
This akin to French President macron feigning outrage at SCOTUS’ abortion decision…or China calling Americans racists, Trudeau spouting off about freedoms being curtailed in other countries as he freezes his citizens bank accounts for protesting his government….perhaps Obrador should concern himself with the drug gangs who carry out public executions and kidnap govt officials and foreigners for ransom before he dare comment on America’s “humanism”.
This should get interesting. As someone who grew up in Western NY, it was at one time highly educated place with very strong private sector. The Yentas like the current Gov have turned the State north of NYC into one big one party crony state. The combined power of the public sector unions, grifter NGOs, and academia has destroyed the manufacturing base and liberty. Look at Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Utica..all falling deeper into poop hole states..but Albany gets more powerful and the Teacher's Unions ensure the money keeps flowing. A failed state.
Seriously do you know any idiot that voted for her?
No one voted for her... she's finishing out the year because Cuomo left.
Than the question applies to any idiot that voted for Cuomo.
Are we sure it's not Cuomo in drag? Seems to be as stupid.
This is straight up lawfare. The people fight the law with their own money, while the goverment fights to implement these laws using taxpayer money. The entire NY assembly and all the politition should be in prison or better yet be made outlaws (in the original sence where they are outside the law, ie if someone robs or murders them it doesn't matter because the law does not regognise them)
Politicians should be made to pay to defend their stupid laws with their own money. that might solve a lot of problems
Taxpayer money but mostly money from lobbying groups well funded by who the hell knows who. One things for sure, nothing the lobbyists fight for is ever just for the good of the people.
"Hochul's response was revealing. "I don't need to have numbers," she said. "I don't have to have a data point to point to to say this is going to [matter]. All I know is that I have a responsibility to the people of this state to have sensible gun safety laws….I don't need a data point to make the case that I have a responsibility to protect the people of this state." In other words, good intentions are all that matters, even if you cannot offer reasons to think they will generate good results."
Never stick your dick, or your gun (I know, I know) in crazy.
Also, repeal the 19th.
This Fox News clip came into my feed and I don't normally watch them, but the title piqued my interest.
Yeah, this happened.
Yeah, this happened.
"My foot's about to colonize yo ass!"
that was pretty funny!
Like a scene from CHAZ; they're eating one another.
New Yorkers will need to provide information about their current partner or spouse and any adults or minors living with them.
The names of four people will also be required for reference checks to determine the applicant’s “moral character” and if there are any red flags that suggest they might be a harm to themselves or others.
The law requires that firearm permit seekers also complete 16 hours of firearm safety training and hand over information about their social media accounts for the last three years which will be used “to confirm … character and conduct.”
But asking someone for a picture ID to vote is too much of a hassle, racist, and just plain mean.
Also, "locations which have often been the location of mass shootings" perhaps there is some correlation here? Mass shooters like target-rich environments with people who are unlikely to fight back, a.k.a. "gun-free zones". Mass shooters have never been deterred by laws against murder, and they've shown a callous disregard for "gun-free zones" in the past, but *this* time, it'll be different.
Meanwhile, the state of California leaked--accidentally, they claim--the name, address, and other personal information of all carry permit holders in the state, showing one danger of maintaining the sort of "state-wide license and ammunition database" New York has just mandated. What would be the response if, say, Georgia, leaked the entire absentee ballot database from the last election? In a twist or irony, several carry permit holders in California have reported receiving death threats associated with the leaking of their personal data, rendering their need for carrying a weapon into the heightened status that might get them a permit in California (if they hadn't had one already). Got to love the anti-gun pacifists sending death threats just for the irony.
"The names of four people will also be required for reference checks to determine the applicant’s “moral character”"
And, no doubt, your references will be punished if you do break the law with a firearm.
This is clear invasion of privacy that invades the privacy of everyone not the applicant. How does this Botox nightmare brainless twat think she can realistically and lawfully bypass “right to be secure in your papers….’ Etc. By collecting information on citizens in such a backhanded way. There are already cases setting the precedent that you can’t do this!
"But asking someone for a picture ID to vote is too much of a hassle, racist, and just plain mean."
How else do we Domocrats get illegal alien vites?
In other news
According to a report released by the Government Accountability Office in 2018, the IRS has been stockpiling ammunition and weapons for years. As of 2018, the agency had 4,487 firearms and 5,062,006 rounds of ammunition in its inventory, the report said. The IRS purchased more than $700,000 in ammunition in recent days.
There are people who are of the opinion that the Administration is simply part of a larger trend to “have any entity in the federal government buy up ammo to reduce the amount of ammunition that is in supply, while at the same time, making it harder to produce ammo.” Especially when the federally-owned ammunition plant in Missouri has been banned by the Biden administration from selling surplus ammunition to the public. Previously, the military had been banned from selling used brass cartridges from their firing ranges to the public, since people can clean and reload the brass. The "brass" is now paying to have the brass collected, compacted (rendering is useless for reloading), and hauled away for metal recycling.
Yeah we fucked you all but good!
Hahahahs...
Forbes has been keeping tabs on this division for many years, and notes that in one 2-year period, agents had accidental discharges 11 times--which was more times than they fired their weapons intentionally in the field. Their arsenal includes fully automatic weapons. One might be forced to wonder: why does the IRS need this level of firepower when the Treasury Department already includes the Secret Service? And when the agency could tap the FBI or US Marshals Service, ATF, or DEA as may be most applicable to their target's proclivities?
Some of these go back to the Obama years.
The Gun-Toting IRS (forbes.com)
The Statutory Problem With IRS Firearms (forbes.com)
IRS Has 4,500 Guns, 5 Million Rounds Ammunition: Paying Taxes? (forbes.com)
Why Are Federal Bureaucrats Buying Guns And Ammo? $158 Million Spent By Non-Military Agencies (forbes.com)
Simple solution, end all federal police agencies except the federal marshals, if another agency needs to investigate or arrest someone, they obtain a warrant through a federal prosecutor and allow the marshals to execute the warrant. This would simplify federal law enforcement and make one department accountable. Additionally, if they need uniformed personal for security, it can be done by uniformed marshals. Not every alphabet soup agency needs an armed police force. It would also bring the government more in line with the constitution.
From Forbes again:
What’s curious, however, is that traditionally administrative agencies spent more than $20 million. Four notable examples:
1) The 2,300 Special Agents at the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) are allowed to carry AR-15’s, P90 tactical rifles, and other heavy weaponry. Recently, the IRS armed up with $1.2 million in new ammunition. This was in addition to the $11 million procurement of guns, ammunition, and military-style equipment procured between 2006-2014.
2) The Small Business Administration (SBA) spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to load its gun locker with Glocks last year. The SBA wasn’t alone – the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service modified their Glocks with silencers.
3) The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has a relatively new police force. In 1996, the VA had zero employees with arrest and firearm authority. Today, the VA has 3,700 officers, armed with millions of dollars’ worth of guns and ammunition including AR-15's, Sig Sauer handguns, and semi-automatic pistols.
4) Meanwhile, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) agents carry the same sophisticated weapons platforms used by our Special Forces military warriors. The HHS gun locker is housed in a new “National Training Operations Center” – a facility at an undisclosed location within the DC beltway.
Spending on guns and ammo at 58 non-military federal agencies – including 40 regulatory, administrative agencies – amounted to $158 million.
The continued growth of the federal arsenal begs the question: Just whom are the feds planning to battle?
More examples of agencies amassing firepower over the last two years:
Loading the Gun Locker – Federal agencies spent $44 million on guns, including an “urgent” order for 20 M-16 Rifles with extra magazines at the Department of Energy ($49,559); shotguns and Glock pistols at the General Services Administration ($16,568); and a bulk order of pistols, sights, and accessories by the Bureau of Reclamation whose main job is to build dams, power plants, and canals ($697,182).
Buying Bullets in Bulk – The government spent $114 million on ammunition, including bulk purchases by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ($66,927); the Smithsonian ($42,687); and the Railroad Retirement Board ($6,941). The Social Security Administration spent $61,129 on bullets including 50,000 rounds of ammunition plus 12-gauge buckshot and slug ammo.
The EPA special agents purchased ammunition for their .357 and 9mm revolvers and buckshot for their shotguns. While Bernie Sanders claimed that the biggest adversary to the United States was climate change, the EPA stood ready to fight in ways we couldn’t have imagined.
Hollow-Point Bullets – Despite being outlawed by the Geneva Convention, federal agencies spent $426,268 on hollow-point bullets, including orders from the Forest Service, National Park Service, Office of Inspector General, Bureau of Fiscal Service, as well as Drug Enforcement Administration, U.S. Marshals, and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Sucks for all the people in upstate NY where they were already effectively shall issue, they now have a ton more restrictions than they had before. Sadly I predicted this, but I'm sure new lawsuits are already being drafted.
Maybe a Sec 1983 case should be filed against Hochel for deliberate violations of civil rights of citizens under the color of law.
They tried to prevent concealed carry at the University of Oregon and Oregon State for sporting events and ran afoul of the Oregon state constitution which allows concealed carry on all state owned property. The court even made them take down the signs saying no firearms allowed.
The only place you can't carry concealed in OR is where it is federally prohibited in courthouses, prisons and racetracks.
The feds run racetracks?
Sounds like New York is in a state of insurrection against the Federal government. Time to call out the militia. Bet you could get lots of volunteers.
"..."I don't need to have numbers," Gov. Kathy Hochul said when asked about the evidence supporting the law..."
The cry of the proggies.
She expects courts to apply the irrational basis test.
As a Syracuse based gun rights attorney said “This might backfire on people … because now you have your concealed carry, but you can’t do anything with it,”
MSN has a good reprint of a syracuse.com report on the situation in central NY. For instance Onandaga county requires a personal interview. The next available appointment is in March, 2023.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/as-new-york-gun-owners-rush-to-get-permits-local-officials-caution-hold-your-fire/ar-AAZd8qt
Seems nullification [immigration non enforcement, gun restrictions] works both ways [marijuana, gun rights].
At this point I am thinking the country would do well to continue manage a common defense and currency.
Let's privatize the currency.
Seebit coin
the country would do well to continue manage a common defense and currency.
How about currency backed by arms and ammunition instead of gold? That would better represent the danger of doing business with potential enemies.
Yes. Invest in precious metals, like lead. I have boxes of lead that have increased by 100% or more in recent years.
New York and its Federal Circuit court are in full defiance of the Supreme Court.
As another poster stated, they can keep passing variations on this theme every time it gets slapped down by the Supremes.
Does the Supreme Court have any actual enforcement power?
Especially as President Biden will not use Federal
Troops to enforce relaxed the gun laws.
We seem to be heading either toward a degree of dissolution or possibly beyond a federalist existence, that might look more like a confederacy.
"Obey.", she explained.
"Truth over facts."
I suppose "97% of scientists agree" was too much of a stretch for this one?
Would be mass shooters take notice! There will be no law abiding citizens capable of returning fire in any of the preferred mass shooting places/venues in NY. Oh, but don't do it anyway, or you'll get that extra gun possession charge added on to your posthumous multiple capital murder charges.
Hochul's face gives me evil bitch vibes just like Pelosi.
Mental ugliness leads to physical deformity.
Same as Gov of Michigan.
Looking forward to Thomas's injunction citing Horchul's blatant contempt for human rights.
-jcr
Thomas writes a scathing rebuke.
Hochul just does it again, different coat of paint this time.
Really what can the Supreme Court do when lawmakers are utterly without scruples?
They can exonerate anyone charged under an unconstitutional statute.
-jcr
Exactly
Pretty clear to me that under the Equal Protection clause, Horchul's bodyguards can't carry anywhere a civilian can't.
-jcr
This is dead on arrival. There should be severe ramifications.
I just knew this would happen. Can we kick New York out of the Union? I'm 100% serious about this. The vast majority of the States and Commonwealth States already detest New York, so why keep them?
>>"I don't need to have numbers,"
Legislative Footnote No. 1
Its great to be a Democrat.
We do things to you and pretend its for you.
Sucks to be you, Peasants.
.Enjoy your $ 6 gas.
Gas prices are due to a world wide shortage and prices. US gas production increased in 2021 or 2020 and continues in that direction. Nothing of Biden's long term energy strategies to combat climate change have anything to do with today's prices.
Try to know something about what you are posting before hitting send. It'll keep you from looking uniformed.
You wrote this--
Try to know something about what you are posting before hitting send. It'll keep you from looking uniformed.
Right after writing this gibberish--
Gas prices are due to a world wide shortage and prices.
You think you look informed?
Forgive us if we don't believe that had Trump been declared the winner and we had similar run-up in prices across the board that you would *not* be blaming Trump for it? Of course, Trump would *not* have cancelled the Keystone Pipeline, would not have halted leases, would *not* have bad-mouthed energy companies and threatened to put them out of business, would *not* be sending our Strategic Reserves to foreign countries.
I didn't blame Trump for the covid economy except to the extent he avoided dealing with it for so long, pretending it would go away. I understand President's are not responsible for all problems and some develop inevitably and over time - usually economic waves are of that sort. The GOP leadership is mart enough to know this and to also use it to their advantage. It's a given in politics, but in this case, and current inflation which is also worldwide - we are about in the middle of other developed countries at our rate according to a recent report I posted - and also due to acts of the federal government against inflation which the GOP had an equal hand in.
Don't worry overmuch, though, the recession will lower gas prices.
Good. I look forward to states wearing out the SC on their bullshit illegitimate rulings and their parent GOP having to keep defending them as the bodies pile up.
Remember, this is a stolen SC majority of loser picks overthrowing one precedent after another and this one based on an archaic amendment about a militia that doesn't exist and hasn't for a century plus.
a stolen SC majority
What's your next guess, pinhead?
Every member of the court, even the wise-ass Latina, was duly nominated and confirmed by the senate. If you're still sniveling about Garland, tough shit. Elections have consequences, and that includes Senate elections.
-jcr
John you stupid fuck, the Senate has a constitutional responsibility to advise and consent to presidential appointees. The GOP majority purposefully failed that duty to deny Obama - and therefore a majority of Americans who voted for him - his constitutional responsibility to appoint one. The GOP senate membership has not represented a majority of Americans since 1996 when it did by .1%.
The court is an illegitimate institution of loser picks with 2 stolen seats - Barret was nominated by the presumptive loser and then crammed down our throats after voting had already begun - and 5 of the justices appointed by EC winners but presidential losers who voters rejected. These fucks don't represent America.
Ongoing butt hurt you have; salve up you stupid 50 center, more to come.
And the next time you promote nullification, try to remember that works both ways.
Indeed, things work both ways, including the fact that now there will be no SC confirmations in the future with an opposing senate majority, and the major recent SC rulings will be dumped like last nights left over raw oysters when the court changes.
the Senate has a constitutional responsibility to advise and consent to presidential appointees.
No, you lefturd moron. They have no duty to consent, the appointee doesn't get the job UNLESS the senate consents. Garland failed. Go cope.
-jcr
No you stupid fuck, they do have a responsibility to ADVISE and consent which means they have to hold hearings or "advise" the president - as in the case of Harriet Myers - that he needs to send another nominee so he can submit another if they don't consent.
Use your feeble brain.
Wait a second, so the Senate failing to confirm Garland "steals" a seat, but the Senate confirming Barret *also* steals a seat?
Meanwhile Brown got confirmed even when there was no vacancy on the court?
From above "Barret was nominated by the presumptive loser and then crammed down our throats after voting had already begun." They stole the seat from American voters again and gave it to the loser.
Given the quality of pro-gun rhetoric, you're lucky you're not all forcefully institutionalized.
The regular mass slaughter of children is the price we must pay for the revolutionary fantasies of hillbillies. Not to mention the critters.
Go fuck yourselves.
Tony, go look up why Israel doesn't have mass school shootings anymore.
Disarming the public does not disarm criminals, you blithering idiot.
-jcr
We're not Israel and prove that every week - See Highland Park.
Don't you care about the children who die in car accidents, pools, and 5-gallon home depot buckets? Many, many more children from those than guns.
If you aren't advocating for a 5 mph national speed limit, the outlawing of any public or private pool, and permitting for buckets, you must be okay with children dying too.
No one called for social distancing and mask mandates and shutdowns when influenza was killing tens of thousands of Americans annually, either, but cried endlessly about "If it saves even ONE LIFE" to justify any COVID-related hare-brained scheme and any disagreement was met with "You're simply a murderer".
Cars have undeniable utility in our lifestyle and economy. AR15s have zero.
How are you so dim as to even suggest a comparison?
"Cars have undeniable utility in our lifestyle and economy."
Ahhh, so you're willing to trade children's lives for utility. Good to know.
You also ignored half my comment.
"Hochul seems to entirely miss the point that the Supreme Court made in Bruen"
LOL
Well, gee, it's just that she's not that bright and doesn't get the point. It's definitely NOT that she's a pro-government bitch who intentionally is going around the point. That's not it at all. She's just missing it.
This is far worse than it even appears. The devil is in the details and in this case the fine print. To wit:
“(n) any place, conveyance, or vehicle used for public transportation or public transit, subway cars, train cars, buses”
In addition to trains planes and cars, the definition of sensitive places includes any place… used for public transportation. That includes all roads and highways that said buses travel on. Which cuts out every single main thoroughfare in the state. And if you include taxis and Ubers, it includes every single road in the entire state. There is NO PLACE, outside your personal property that you can take your legally owned firearm. And if you live in an apartment building you basically can’t take it out of your apartment.
This is a total and complete abrogation of the entire 2nd amendment. I believe Hochul has overreached and will get slapped down. If not, I personally can take solace in the fact that I am moving to Florida.
It seems to me that in passing laws which so obviously thumbs their nose at the USSC decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, Gov. Hochul and the members of the legislature who voted for these ridiculous restrictions on 2nd amendment rights set themselves up to be labeled as engaging as a conspiracy against 2nd amendment rights against the citizens of New York. While it almost certainly will form the basis of a federal lawsuit under 42 USC 1983...
...in a just nation, it might also result in federal CRIMINAL charges under 18 USC 241, for "conspiracy against rights." Now I doubt that the Biden DOJ would bring such a charge... But the chage does have a 5 year statute of limitations, and the next administration might not be so partial and forgiving to Democratic activism.
Oddly Brazil has been doing the opposite and murders have dropped over 30%
"I don't need numbers..." = I'll use stats when they support my politics, and ignore them when they don't.
This strategy matches many voters who ignore reality and vote by their emotions. Why should I be held hostage to their irrational whims? Why should I have to obey irrational, unfair, immoral laws?
I don't, except temporarily, under duress (threat). That's how the law works, e.g., NOT by reason, logic, rights, but by force, after all attempts to get compliance using fraud have failed, e.g., "The law is the law"! This popular politics is called "democracy", rule by consensus. It's not rooted in ethics or reality, and may reverse itself back and forth, as in legal alcohol, illegal, legal again. But, do the law breakers get out when the law changes? No, because it's not about justice or safety, it's about obedience to authority, no matter how obscene or offensive to the conscience.
Who is this Anne McCloy character and where does she get off challenging the governor's feelings?
Kathy Hochul is a feckless cunt.
"Numbers? I don't need no stink'n numbers!"
No doubt.
Us Dictators gotta dictate!
Fuck SCOTUS. Democrats are above the law.
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