Clarence Thomas Calls To 'Reconsider' Gay Marriage, Sodomy Rulings
The other justices declined to join him, but the future of the Supreme Court rulings on those matters remains unclear.

In today's Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade (1973), Justice Clarence Thomas joined the majority opinion. But he also wrote a separate concurrence arguing that the logic behind today's ruling should also apply to previous Supreme Court decisions on same-sex marriage, sodomy, and the right to access contraceptives.
Today's majority opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization ruled that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided and that the Constitution does not guarantee a right to an abortion. In the opinion, Justice Samuel Alito determined that the right to an abortion is not "rooted in the Nation's history and tradition."
Alito's decision, however, very clearly explains that he's not trying to claim that any right that isn't "rooted in the Nation's history" is potentially subject to being tossed out. This language was in the leaked draft opinion as well. He holds that part of what makes abortion different is that it involves the "destruction of a 'potential life.'" The decision states outright:
And to ensure that our decision is not misunderstood or mischaracterized, we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.
He specifically name-checks Obergefell v. Hodges (the 2014 ruling that mandated gay marriage recognition) and Griswold v. Connecticut (the 1965 ruling that stopped states from criminalizing contraception) as precedents he is not attempting to challenge with the Dobbs decision. He later reiterates that those decisions "are inherently different from the right to abortion because the latter (as we have stressed) uniquely involves what Roe and Casey termed 'potential life.'"
But Thomas wrote separately to say the court should reconsider those cases too. While abortion may be a unique issue involving human life, Thomas sees these other precedents as errors of the court because he fundamentally disagrees that the concept of "substantive due process"—that "due process" protects not just procedures but fundamental rights—has a constitutional foundation. Thomas has a history of arguing that the Due Process Clause does not actually guarantee rights but that proper procedures are followed.
Here, because the majority decision declined to address this issue, Thomas wrote separately to encourage them to:
For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell. Because any substantive due process decision is "demonstrably erroneous," Ramos v. Louisiana…(THOMAS, J., concurring in judgment)…we have a duty to "correct the error" established in those precedents, Gamble v. United States…(2019) (THOMAS, J., concurring)….After overruling these demonstrably erroneous decisions, the question would remain whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myriad rights that our substantive due process cases have generated.
I have already started seeing tweets isolating Thomas' concurrence to indicate that this is a warning that the conservative Supreme Court justices are going to start attacking other precedents.
This response to Thomas' concurrence ignores that no other justice signed on to this concurrence, not even Alito. Even though six justices agreed that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided, they were not willing to sign on to Thomas' argument that these other cases were also wrongly decided or that substantive due process is not supported by the Constitution.
In fact, the two concurrences he references above are also cases in which Thomas wrote that the Court was misinterpreting laws and the Constitution. And in each case, no other justice joined him.
Thomas' entire concurrence here is essentially him saying that substantive due process is nonsense and that the courts should go back and revisit all these previous precedents. Thomas has a history of writing these types of concurrences, but he also has a history of being completely on his own here. And that's exactly what happened today. It's getting much more attention because this is such a massive, important ruling, but it's not unusual for Thomas to do this.
It is, however, important that Thomas and the three dissenting justices, Stephen Breyer (who wrote the dissent), Elena Kagan, and Sonia Sotomayor, are actually on the same page: Despite what Alito might write in the majority opinion, the logic of Dobbs can ultimately in a future court result in what Thomas would like to see. Justice Breyer writes:
Consider, as our last word on this issue, contraception. The Constitution, of course, does not mention that word. And there is no historical right to contraception, of the kind the majority insists on. To the contrary, the American legal landscape in the decades after the Civil War was littered with bans on the sale of contraceptive devices. So again, there seem to be two choices. See supra, at 5, 26–27. If the majority is serious about its historical approach, then Griswold and its progeny are in the line of fire too. Or if it is not serious, then … what is the basis of today's decision? If we had to guess, we suspect the prospects of this Court approving bans on contraception are low. But once again, the future significance of today's opinion will be decided in the future. At the least, today's opinion will fuel the fight to get contraception, and any other issues with a moral dimension, out of the Fourteenth Amendment and into state legislatures.
Justices have often rejected Thomas' position against substantive due process, but that doesn't mean that the logic of the majority's opinion today can't be used against these other precedents. But the current makeup of the court, despite leaning heavily conservative, suggests that it will not.
Thomas is certainly inviting challenges to these precedents, and that shouldn't be ignored. It's also important to understand the logic and legal theory behind Thomas' position, that other conservative judges don't necessarily agree with him, and that potential challenges to these other precedents aren't just a matter of which political ideology is ascendant on the Court at any given time.
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Thomas is completely right when he argues that the constitution, properly interpreted, does not provide any right to contraceptives. But there isn't a state in the Union where a ban on contraceptives could make it through the legislature today (so as to generate a case that could lead to the overturning of Griswold, so the issue is an academic one.
Same is almost certainly true about sodomy laws and (I hope) gay marriage.
I would also contend that ass-fucking and contraception ought to be rights that fall under the 9th amendment. In a better world.
I still don't know what the 9th Amendment means post-incorporation.
It obviously means nothing anymore. If the constitution didn't spell it out, then go fuck yourself.
Oh wait, the constitution didn't spell that one out either.
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“Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.”
Uh, he can’t say that. Logic is logic.
Apparently the sanctity of logic and science need to be enumerated in the constitution.
Then activists couldn’t simply lobby to change the meaning of words, like marriage, to advance their illegitimate causes.
Your Wickedly Great One & Friends didn't support Logic and Objective Reality that applied to all, but instead supported the Polylogism of "Aryan Logic," "Negro Logic," "Jewish Logic," etc.
Fuck Off Nazi!
Hot take from the half-retarded pedophile having fits of apoplexy because the supreme court interpreted the plain meaning of the 2nd amendment to ensure the right to bear arms while sending a clearly 9th amendment issue back to the states, or to the people, which is its proper realm of purview under federal law.
The 9th Amendment is the one that says that enumerated rights shall not be construed to deny ordisparage other right retained by the people. This would include both an unenumerated right to privacy, or the right to procure contraception or abortion. You're really arguing for the Pro-Choice position.
Start again.
I'll help out Winifred and say that it's a 10th Amendment issue.
Well the 9th Amendment still trumps the 10th Amendment if a State power violates Individual Rights. Also, Individuals pre-existed Government, so when in doubt, the Individual has primacy.
Nobody does. It's a great idea, but what the hell are you supposed to do with it once government decides to push its limits. Which happened pretty much immediately.
Right.
Prior to incorporation of the rest of the Bill of Rights to apply to states, the 9th Amendment was a logical statement about limits of federal power. The federal government is limited to its enumerated powers. Some rights of the people are listed in the Constitution, but "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" (9th Amendment).
And, in this context, the 9th Amendment fits reasonably well with the 10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
But that's far less clear after the cases (beginning early 20th century) that rely on the 14th Amendment to incorporate most amendments of the Bill of Rights as checks on the power of states, not just the federal government. States aren't limited by the U.S. Constitution to a set of enumerated powers.
The thing with gay marriage, though - even if 49 states banned it, wouldn't the Full Faith and Credit Clause require them to recognize lawful marriages from the gay state? I don't see any states going back on this one because they wouldn't actually change anything beyond losing tourism revenue and inconveniencing their gay citizens
Does the "full faith and credit clause" require all states to recognize concealed gun carry permits from free states?
And, that's a right enumerated in the Constitution.
Read literally, it should.
Yes, which is why the gay marriage issue was destined to result in nationwide recognition of gay marriage, but the activists couldn't have a ruling that A) respected the constitution and B) didn't give them immediate gratification, and so we ended up with Obergefell accelerating something that was destined to happen anyway so that Tony Kennedy's closeted faggot ass could have a "legacy".
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Section 2 of the Federal Defense of Marriage Act allowed states not to recognize other states' gay marriages. Think there's at least an argument that's constitutional because of the complete wording of the Full Faith and Credit Clause: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof."
My understanding is that Federal DOMA still nominally exists, though it's superceded and unenforceable due to Supreme Court decisions in Windsor (2013) and Obergefell (2015). The former decision struck down Section 3 of DOMA, which prohibited federal recognition (under tax law, for Social Security, etc.) of same-sex marriages from states that allowed it.
So, if Obergefell were overturned, Section 2 of Federal DOMA would once again be in effect, unless federal courts specifically overturned it or Congress repealed it. I agree that, but for Section 2 of Federal DOMA, there's a strong case that the Full Faith and Credit Clause requires states to recognize same-sex marriages from other states.
There's also a separate question of the reliance interests of people who have married based on Obergefell, which I suspect is a big reason that the Supreme Court won't take a case to reconsider that decision.
Government shouldn’t be in the business of licensing marriage at any level.
I don't suppose he's mentioned laws that ban interracial marriage?
Nothing says "White privilege" like being black = being gay. Sure, Loving went to prison while Obergfell went to Canada and got a tax break. Keep it up, I'm sure you'll convince people of your idiocy.
I think you're suffering from a lack of imagination here.
Several types of contraception, including "the pill" and IUDs, don't prevent fertilization* but rather implantation. Some of the anti-abortion laws define "life" as starting from fertilization. So there will absolutely be an impact on contraception depending on the individual state laws. My guess is there will be partial bans on contraceptives, especially the pill and IUDs, and those will get met with lawsuits that can easily get appealed up to the waiting arms of 5 Catholic justices.
Also note that the Dobbs case was not seeking to ban abortion but to limit it beyond what the court had allowed in the past. The Supreme Court picked that up and used it to kill Roe. There's no reason they wouldn't pick up a marginal contraception case and use it to overturn another precedent they don't like.
*hormone pills can interfere in pregnancy by preventing ovulation, implantation, or by messing with sperm. It's different per person.
Indeed, there have already been cases (like Hobby Lobby, which SCOTUS upheld, so they agree with this view) which specifically frame IUD's as abortifacients. So, imagine if you're a woman with an IUD traveling through an abortion-ban state and you have sex within that state. What if it's not even consensual. Imagine being tried for murder for being raped while you had an IUD.
Most of the recent total bans on abortions have eliminated the exception for rape or incest, too.
God the leftist contortions are out of control in this one.
Dudes who are abortion fanatics are the height of creepiness
shawn_guy is an old shreek sock, so that's actually one of his less creepy qualities. The child rape and pornography being the most creepy.
It seems oike a lot of dudes in power in Russia throughout the years were abortion fanatics, both pro- and con-.
Abortion in Russia--Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia
Sooo...Is Putin a creep? Is he even creepier, given the number of live, born human beings he's literally murdered?
Yeah, because police departments that have a 10 year back log of murders, arsons, thefts, and rapes are going to meticulously scrutinize OB/GYN records to see if an ovum was implanted or merely fertilized.
You're suffering from a surplus of imagination, shreek. Normally you just use that surplus to fantasize about raping prepubscent children and then posting hardcore porn of it on the Reason.com comments section because you are a degenerate piece of shit, but in this case maybe you should just lay off the pipe for a bit. This really doesn't affect you. No adult woman would ever fuck you, and the little boys you are attracted to cannot become pregnant even if you rawdog it.
>The Supreme Court picked that up and used it to kill Roe.
This was a strategic error by pro choice advocates who would not accept that MS law was a reasonable compromise.
"Thomas' entire concurrence here is essentially him saying that substantive due process is nonsense and that the courts should go back and revisit all these previous precedents."
He's not wrong about that. 'Substative' due process is an oxymoron the Court resorted to because they lacked the integrity to just overrule the Slaughterhose cases directly. It's just a work around to avoid restoring the gutted P&I clause.
But Thomas is the only Justice willing to go there.
It's uncertain that "the pill" prevents post-implantation fertilization. It's certainly not a primary mechanism of action.
"Ginni has been gettin' on my nerves lately, plus she leaked that draft to the press, so I'm thinking about whether Loving v Virginia is on the chopping block too."
"But there isn't a state in the Union where a ban on contraceptives could make it through the legislature today (so as to generate a case that could lead to the overturning of Griswold, so the issue is an academic one."
Each state legislature should strive to pass a law legalizing contraceptives, just to be safe.
I'm stocking up on rubbers, lube, and foam anyway. If the Shizzle and Jizzle Hits the Fizzle, I am ready!
Nobody who talks like that hits it.
Nobody.
All right, no black-market French Ticklers for you!
I'll give you something to "Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair" about! 🙂
Assuming the 9th Amendment doesn't exist...
This is basically Thomas being intellectually consistent on things. Breyer's quote given above basically agrees with it. They differ in philosophy, not in understanding the reasoning from said philosophy.
And he's right, I think. Substantive due process is weird and makes little sense and Privileges and Immunities should get a lot more play. But that would fetter government too much and we can't have that. We will never get to actual Constitutional government through the courts unless we can clone Thomas a bunch of times.
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I don't know enough about Substantive Due Process to say much about it. It seems bad, but I don't know the arguments. Judicial arguments are so absurdly philosophical and historical that I try to be conservative on expressing opinions on it as much as possible.
Even the 5th Amendment case from a few days ago I've since read more about it that has given me some further pause on things I wrote.
It's an inherently contradictory phrase that Justices treat as a license to pull new rights out of their judicial asses.
Substantive due process is easy to understand.
If there hasn't been any real due process, the justices pulled the idea that it had from their asses, and called it "substantive".
Almost every time you put a qualifier in front of a word, it really means "not".
Eg: politically correct, homosexual marriage.
Alito: Abortion isn’t explicitly listed as a right + there is taking of a life.
Thomas: Homosexuality isn’t explicitly listed as a right + it’s icky.
Not that consistent.
Wrong, again Red Mike.
"Roe" had the Supremes create a right, that the 9th amendment reserves for the people.
"0bergefell" did the same thing.
Very consistent.
Bullshit. In abortion you can argue that they're protecting a right (the unborn's) and the people can decide which right - the mother's vs the child - supersedes the other and when.
On Oberkfell/gay marriage it means "letting the people" discriminate against an unpopular group and deny them a right that everyone else has. Might as well go back to the days where blacks can't use water fountains.
" deny them a right that everyone else has."
Horseshit. It was judicially re-writing the definition of a long understood term to encompass people of the same sex forming a simulacrum of marriage.
Well, women who want abortions and LGBTQ+ people are people too, whack-a-do, whack-a-do, whack-a-do.
Thomas: Homosexuality isn’t explicitly listed as a right + it’s icky.
Cite?
Frankly, Thomas doesn't give a fuck about outlawing sodomy or other lefty bugbears. He wants to rid the courts of the judicial doctrine of substantive due process for being a misapplication of the 5th and 14th Amendments' Due Process Clause. Instead, as he explicitly states in his Dobbs concurrence (as he has in every other SDP case), the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the 14A could be the constitutional source of these rights. That no other justice is willing to revisit the Slaughterhouse cases (which more or less nullified application of the P&I Clause to any case subsequent to these decisions) suggests their jurisprudence is tied to preferred outcomes instead of fidelity to the Constitution.
Are you sure you aren't a lefty?
Ah, but didn't the Slaughterhouse cases also give a green light to The New Deal, The War On Poverty, and all other subsequent Welfare Statist legislation we know and love (/sarc) today?
As for Thomas' thoughts on Sodomy Laws, cite?
No, I don't see how those are much tied to the Slaughterhouse cases. The question there concerned how the Privileges and Immunities Clause constrained the actions of a state (specifically Louisiana).
The overriding issue with the New Deal and later legislation has been stretching limits on enumerated powers of the federal government with respect to both spending and economic regulation. Also plenty to question about Congress granting so much rule-making power to executive branch administrative agencies and how that fits with the non-delegation doctrine.
Thomas is completely correct. As usual.
But the remedy is to uphold these rights as equal protection or privileges of citizens.
Too often SCOTUS has used due process as an excuse to push their favored policies.
TLDR: Thomas thinks substantive due process is bunk, and sees the privileges and immunities clause as a better source for (some) unenumerated rights that currently rely on substantive due process.
That's what I got from the little I saw of his concurrence as well. But, I haven't read much of it or read much around the question.
I’m going to steal this.
"...today's ruling should also apply to previous Supreme Court decisions on same-sex marriage, sodomy, and the right to access contraceptives."
Of course, the SCOTUS should throw out those rulings. The Consitution says nothing about two guys getting married.
But my beef is the last part...right to access contraceptives??? None of these rulings had anything to do with contraception (unless you are using abortion as contraception which 1) sadly the case for many and 2) not really contraception because conception already happened).
The "Consitution" says nothing about scratching our asses or brushing our teeth, specifically, either! Should these things be allowed?
How about blowing upon a cheap plastic flute, w/o permission, should THAT be allowed? It isn't, ass of today!
PS…
To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!
The Consitution says nothing about two guys getting married.
The Constitution says nothing about anyone getting married. Yet I think we would all balk at the idea of states outlawing marriage.
Seems to me to be an almost paradigmatic case of an unenumerated right.
Yet I think we would all balk at the idea of states outlawing marriage
Like when states outlaw marriage between more than two people?
No, I mean like outlawing the institution of marriage, which is not an enumerated constitutional right.
And I don't think the government has the right to outlaw polygamy.
I actually do think the government should be silent on the question of marriage.
The State has no place in deciding marriage.
Let every couple come to their own contractual agreements, and otherwise treat everyone as an individual.
I generally sympathize with this but with the caveat that not everyone can afford to have lawyers draw up proper binding agreements, and the failure of states to recognize marriages winds up having real consequences on transference of property, hospital visitation, insurance, etc.
My wife and I, for example, are not legally married, and this causes occasional issues even in CA.
Given that that's the case, I think it makes a certain amount of sense to have a boilerplate 'legal relationship status' that can define these without everyone having to hire their own individual lawyers to accomplish it.
But I don't think that status should involve anything more than notifying some recording agency that "these individuals are in this relationship with one another."
Since you live in California, just fill out a Domestic Partnership form and mail it in. No lawyer required.
And then when his parents show up at the hospital, but his gay lover wants to make all the medical decisions, what happens shreek?
Medical power of attorney should solve that. Although I can’t say if that gets complicated in any particular state.
I think boilerplate legal contracts are fine. Necessary even.
But it shouldn't be automatic.
Have a selection of options and allow couples to choose which one to go with, or even mix and match them. Register your choice along with your marriage.
And if a couple doesn't register a contract selection?
Then treat them as individuals no different than complete strangers.
Not everyone can afford to have lawyers draw up a proper last will and testament either, and yet we somehow manage to deal with intestacy. The state could deal with marriage in the exact same way: set up conditions for "common law" marriage, which already exist in most states, and if the couple needs to resolve a dispute regarding custody or property, it defaults to a statutory distribution just like an intestate probate case. If there is a marriage contract in place, it supersedes the statutory default in the exact same way that a proper last will and testament supersedes the statutory distribution of property during probate.
yet we somehow manage to deal with intestacy.
Yeah . . . a famously unproblematic process.
*eyeroll*
The expense of a Junkyard Dog Lawyer could be avoided if all laws were written the vernacular, but we can dream, can't we? 🙂
So you never heard of the Griswold case? Even after it was mentioned in the article?
Not the later case, Griswold v Wally World Corp.?
Was that a small claims tort for denial of service and a counter-suit for BB-gun woulds and unrelated charges for improper disposal of a corpse? 😉
Do youvhage a right to post nonsense on an Internet Web Site like Reason.com? It doesn't mention either Internet Web Sites or Reason.com in the Constitution.
What next?!?! Do we have any substantive due process rights to keep ANY of the money that we earn? Any rights to pick our own marriage partners, instead of getting one assigned to us by Government Almighty, to insure "equity"?
How about government getting the fuck out of marriage altogether? There should be no legal recognition of your sex life and partnerships whatsoever.
^this. this is the way
No. A moment's actual reflection will tell you we can't do without family law. We need some means of considering families as legal entities in certain contexts while the individuals within it are legally individuals in most other contexts. Your child breaks a window; you want the law to deal with that as strictly between the child and the injured party? The window might be a family's property too.
Law had to adapt itself to the realities of families.
Children are legally tied to their parent(s).
There is no reason spouses need to be treated differently than each individual independent of the other, unless otherwise stipulated by contract between the two.
The government recognizing your relationship to your child is irrelevant to whether you married their mother or not.
So like a familial incorporation. That wasn't hard to do.
Say Roberta, do you know what happens in family court when an unmarried couple has a child or property and there is a dispute as to the custody or ownership? Common law courts have been dealing with family and estate issues for a long, long, long, long, long, long, long time before the "institution" of government marriage was invented in the late 1700s.
Widespread government license of marriage is a fairly recent thing.
Reason #37392 that Republicans are medieval shits.
Be careful what you say or write, or ye'll be (medievally AND evilly) burnt as a WITCH! (Also don't be heavier than a duck.)
I'm going to go medieval on your asshole, baby.
Poor Ving rhames
Lotsa that going on here 🙂 :
History of the World - Part One - The spanish Inquisition - by Mel Brooks
https://youtu.be/PR7hp0613QY
Same thing with federal recognition of all marriges
Sure. Nothing says FREEDOM like not being able to do whatever you want consensually in your own bedroom, not being afforded the same rights anyone else gets, not having control over your own body.
Boy isn't this country just the most free one in the world?
Thank God for justice Thomas. Truly a once per country legal mind.
>>a warning that the conservative Supreme Court justices are going to start attacking other precedents
they don't have the stones.
They just pulled one out of their pocket and threw it through a constitutional window. They've got them and they're not afraid to use them.
Roe v. Wade was unconstitutional on its face, and even a very, very, very stupid, very very, very partisan cunt like Ruth Bader Cuntsberg recognized that. Let me reiterate again for the edification of our audience that shawn_guy is a really old shreek sockpuppet. Now given that you have been banned from this site for posting links to dark web hardcore child pornography using your Sarah Palin's Buttplug account, and given that we all know full well from your extensive posting history that you are incapable of maintaining adult relationships, why does an adult woman's convenience of obtaining an abortion concern you? You're a faggot pedophile who likes to fuck prepubescent boys. They're at no risk for pregnancy. Are you stupid enough to be concerned that the prepubescent boys might impregnate you? Let me put your mind at ease: You will never be a woman, even after the surgeries and HRT. Hope that helps clear up some things for you. You have a splendid day, pedophile.
You shouldn’t sugar coat your comments like that.
Will Justice Thomas be as enthusiastic about revisiting Loving Vs. Virginia then -- or does that hit too close to home?
True that - I mean, the Constitution makes no mention of interracial marriage . . .
Black guys are hot! but alas, the myth that they are well endowed is just that...a myth. Ive dated Black guys, and suffice to say, they were all eager bottoms. Besides, black gays prefer non-black sex partners just like Clarence. They would not survive overruling Loving
And there is no "deeply rooted tradition" of interracial marriage either, so there's a vote from Alito to overturn Loving...
If you could find a way to make an argument that overturning Loving would improve the image of the Court, that could be a vote from Roberts...
You might notice that Loving was curiously omitted from Thomas' hit-list. He managed to round up all of those facets of social progressivism, but the one that he benefits from managed to escape his notice. Hmmm...
It's almost like immutable physical characteristics are different from sexual preferences or something. Weird.
(FWIW, Loving should have never been heard, because the court should have vacated all laws regulating marriage a century earlier)
Yes they should have. That would solve a lot of problems.
Loving and Obergefell are basically the exact same ruling. One is equal protection based on being "the wrong race" and the other is equal protection based on being "the wrong sex."
It's kind of like that, only completely the opposite. Good job, shreek, you have managed to maintain your unblemished record of being factually, logically, ethically and morally wrong about absolutely everything.
He’s ultimately betting big on elimination of age of consent laws. That’s his long game.
Akschuyally, Mildred Loving, one of the Plaintiffs in Loving v. Virginia held that the logic of her and her late husband's Supreme Court case applies to same-sex marriage too:
Private: Mildred Loving Endorses Marriage Equality for Same-Sex Couples
https://www.acslaw.org/?post_type=acsblog&p=3747
That's correct. And Thomas (like many conservatives) believes that race and sexual orientation are fundamentally different and that legislatures can choose to treat them differently legally.
See above, Mrs. Gladys Kravitz..
is there a federal government justice of the peace who can marry?
Isn't this common knowledge? All of the judges as well as members of Congress, the President, etc.
Neither federal judges, nor members of congress, nor the president, are "justices of the peace", at least not by virtue of their title as a federal judge, congressman, or president. Goddamn shreek, do you ever wonder it might be like to be correct about anything? Even accidentally?
God I wish I was a supreme court justice. I'd be the best one they'd ever had.
"They" being which? The Army of Satan or the Army of God?
Nomos magazine had a series that explained this. "Substantive due process" is an abuse of some language in the 14th amendment, created to make possible a judicial compromise to avoid recognizing a general right of freedom but while granting some. It conceived legislation as part of the "process of law" that had to give people their "due" according to unspecified criteria. So a state can't make statutes that deprive people of liberty unless they go thru the proper procedures and, I don't know, aren't too hard on people or something. According to this court-invented doctrine.
Never underestimate theologians to proselytize . Never underestimate secular Marxists, true believers to proselytize. Not a good time for political choice in the U.S.
Kill, or be killed.
That is your choice.
And that's your choice, because the totalitarian left has completely rejected live and let live.
Someone has to come and attack me first...You know, like Putin did to Ukraine.
Roe v. Wade is not a political question, it's a legal question. And SCOTUS made the correct decision: the US Constitution clearly does not contain a "right to an abortion" or even a "right to privacy".
The correct thing to do now is to get politically active and have your preferences translated into legislation... if you actually care about abortion.
There's also no enumerated Constitutional right to have CC&Rs and HOAs either. Nor is there any enumerated mention of Subsidiarity. Show me the Constitutional provision.
What PT Barnum asserted, National Socialist Trumpanzees have now proven beyond peradventure.
Not only is there a sucker born every minute, but two to take them.
So, why not more posting on one of your short list of favorite topics? I was waiting for half the postings to be from you. 🙂
There is an easy answer to this. Take it out of the courts hands. Congress can act. How much better would it be to solve these issues through the elected representatives instead of asking the court to just make stuff up to get to the desired result.
Because fundamental rights aren't supposed to be regularly debated and overturned? Our society works better with a certain degree of stability.
I'd love to have issues resolved by elected representatives, but in quite a few states we have problems with gerrymandering and voter suppression that make the people elected non-representative of their constituents. George H W Bush was the last Republican president that won the popular vote in his first term.
The popular vote is not a thing. I wish people would stop even mentioning it as if it meant something.
The thing to be resolved is "when is it a human life".
That ain't in the constitution.
Pretending that abortion on demand is a fundamental right is silly.
Bodily autonomy might be. Self determination, could be. But we sure don't toe that line in most other circumstances that are far less controversial.
Bodily autonomy was shot to hell with the "vaccine" mandates and the "right to privacy" has been long abandoned by the surveillance state.
A lot of the whining about what was "lost" with this ruling, especially by leftist politicians, is rank hypocrisy.
You're not truly free unless your 14 year old girlfriend is free to go to a Medicaid mill and have her inconvenient prom night dumpster baby dispatched with extreme prejudice.
If sexual orientation were mutable, your talk would make Casanova, Don Juan, Lothario, and Gene Simmons all go Queer.
The constitution deals with personhood--at least before Trump's Race Suicide court became The Supremacy. Millions of wriggling spermatozoa can, since Leeuwenhoek, be observed as both human and alive. Ask Long Dong for movies of that sort of thing.
Too bad for you that fucking prepubescent boys in their virginal assholes is not a fundamental right, shreek.
Infanticide is not a ‘fundamental right’. Just fucking children isn’t a ‘fundamental right’.
Congress shouldn't be able to act on anything outside of the powers granted in Article 8, with some hard-restrictions listed in Article 9.
Issues of societal interest, like marriage, abortion and many others, are conspicuously absent from those powers.
The states, with the exceptions listed in Article 10, are free to do what the Congress may not.
Unfortunately, Congress has broken through, to a massive extent, the boundaries the Framers intended. So passing a federal law about abortion would probably stand.
I’m a straight , oh excuse me cisgendered male who identifies as a male . In light of the Supreme Court possibly making BJ’s illegal I'm wondering if I should take advantage of my freedoms while they still exist and get a boyfriend.
I, too, remember those dark days prior to the Lawrence v. Texas ruling in 2004 when married men lived with the constant, aching fear that a SWAT team would bust down the door every time their wife attempted to give them head.
Wait'll they come for your Eggs Benedict!
If the law wasn't specific on the sex of the parties, the SWAT team could have done so. All it would take is anonymous call over some one of millions of legal pretexts to get it done.
Please don't ask any Libertarian to spit on you when it's your ass on fire.
Sure Do it. I'm getting up my stockpile of rubbers, lube and foam and, while I'm not pushy with my Pansexuality, maybe something could develop if you're local in NC.
The Dissenting opinion was absolutely correct... It was an activist and hypocritical judgement that puts A LOT of Individual Liberty into State Gov-Gun Fire....
After overruling these demonstrably erroneous decisions, the question would remain whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myriad rights that our substantive due process cases have generated.
Way to go LIMITED government party.. You just GREW the government even MORE...... Dumb*sses...
It's not the job of SCOTUS judges to "limit government", it's their job to apply the Constitution. The Roe decision was an absurd violation of the Constitution.
The US Constitution does not guarantee a lot of liberties. If you want it to guarantee additional liberties, you need to pass additional constitutional amendments.
Including CC&Rs and HOAs and Subsidiarity, right?
Can't wait to see what happens when Red Flag laws come before the court.
Both the right and the left are giving me whiplash with how quickly we keep going down the
1. It's not happening. You're delusional.
2. It's happening, but it's not a big deal. You're reactionary.
3. It already happened. Get used to it.
4. If you don't actively like it, get out.
chart.
If only they could keep it amongst themselves and leave the rest of us in peace.
Nobody listened when Anita Hill got Long Dong SIlver so upset he had to take a key bump break before issuing more denials and being adopted by Strom Thurmond. Now it's a march for full Comstockism with chain gangs under the wing of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. This guy's doin' Dave Chappell's act without benefit of a hood and white robe!
The 1972 LP platform called for repeal of laws bullying women in the first 100 days of pregnancy. Not subsidies, not taxes. Socializers of medicine rely on terrified doctors to testify it's OK to shoot people over some drugs. The Kleptocracy then writes laws subsidizing surgery for castration, hemorrhoids and (you guessed it) birth control once mohammedans could no longer lynch or stone women for it in America. This is where I expect the 19th Amendment to find out about the 13th Amendment.
If you want something to transcend precedence then it needs to be codified in law. Clarence Thomas is correct that previous precedence's should be reviewed. The courts should interpret the law, not create the law.
At times a laws will conflict with another or a situation will need to be sorted out. The job of the judge is to sort it out for a specific case. Sure, it can set a precedence, but this is not the same as a law, but more of a gauge of how the current judicial makeup interpreted the law.
Pretending that precedence is law is a distortion of reality. It is incumbent on supported of a precedence to garner support and codified the precedence in law.
The ideological composition of the court will change as the voters change who is in power. If a precedence is codified in law then it will be far more likely to survive the vacillations of power.
Additionally, the process of codifying precedence into law through the legislative process involves getting a consensus instead of just 9 black robed justices.
Personally I believe that people should be able to enter into a spousal contract regardless of their gender. I really don't care if two men or two women become life partners. This would be their personal decisions and lives to live, not mine. Likewise, I don't want other people forcing their beliefs in my personal decisions.
I do oppose the trend of watering down of language to become so inclusive that it renders a word meaningless. It's one thing if the language slowly evolves, but another when the language change is mandated and forced on the population.
"After overruling these demonstrably erroneous decisions, the question would remain whether other constitutional provisions guarantee the myriad rights that our substantive due process cases have generated."
I would put a different emphasis. If it turns out that the Court realizes that substantive due process is a contradiction in terms, it should immediately consider whether there are other, previously neglected provisions securing the rights formerly protected by substantive due process.
I'd suggest that 9th Amendment and privileges and immunities clause, both of which, I would argue, do indeed protect those rights to grounded in history as to rank as fundamental.
I deny that contraceptives and gay marriage are such rights, but I could mention a few which were acknowledged at the time of the 9th Amendment and privileges and immunities clause:
-earning a living at a lawful occupation without monopolistic interference (including craftily-devised laws which are designed to fall with a light hand on large corporations while suffocating small businesses).
-Access to the courts to redress injuries to property, person and reputation.
-The right of conscientious objectors not to have to render military service in person.
-No dividing up your property by the government before it's been duly forfeited by law (eg, by a fine)
These can be found in early American state constitutions or the English Bill of Rights.
As to monopolies, the English Bill of Rights said only Parliament could grant them, not the king, but translate that into an American idiom, where legislatures are recognized as potentially oppressive as well as kings, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to extend the logic to legislative bodies. Especially since many state constitutions forbade giving exclusive privileges to people except in compensation for public service.
Another lovely reply from our resident fuckface.
Mideaval Inquisitors won't see or hear the crossbow firing either, Breeder!
Oh big strong burly man over here.
You sound like such a snowflake with your replies. Heaven forbid you ever respond halfway intelligently about anything.
He's an edgelord keyboard warrior.
"Geiger" is responding to SQRLSY, who cant post even slightly intelligently on anything.
Isn't it counterintuitive for "Geiger" be expected to do so?
Why don't you?
I mean, this country is obviously just brimming with proggy libruls who hate America, hate freedom, hate liberty, so much so that you perpetually advocate for murdering them. Wouldn't it be nice for you to find a place where there was no disagreement and everyone marched in lockstep towards the vision of the state that you hold dear?
The Islamic world will gladly have you, Goldie! It was the number two destination after South America for certain German tourists post-1945. Many of them either converted to Islam or at least assumed Arabic names.
I'm not at all a fan of the "if you don't like it then leave" argument. But where is an American conservative to go that's better? There are lots of places that proggies think do things right, or much closer to right.
No, this country belongs to us, and always has. You and your fellow travelers must leave.
But where is an American conservative to go that's better?
Well, if you're an American conservative who's primarily animated by your distress at gay marriage, abortion and not having sodomy laws, there's plenty of places you can go.
If you're trying to square those views with a love of individual liberty, there's a narrower window there.
Organize the conservative equivalent of the FSP?
That's rich, a paid party shill calling others "keyboard warriors".
I don't think that can be used as an argument against anybody here. Aren't we all sweaty meatpigs posting to a "libertarian" magazine's website?
You literally run a sockpuppet account called De Oppresso Liber where you pretend to be a retired special operations soldier and have threatened my life on numerous occasions before pussying out like the faggot bitch that you are when I tell you to name the place and time, because you're actually a fatass piece of shit faggot from Toronto, Ontario, Canada who formerly posted under the name "cytotoxic" before your humiliating meltdown after Hillary Clinton lost forced you to leave in shame and change your handle.
Offer still stands btw, you lardass fat fucking piece of shit.
Tony's never kept that a secret.
I know I would.
Translation: Geiger is a self-loathing homosexual.
Without fail, the buttwipes who scream and act all butch-like about us homosexuals, are the very types that can take a Mack Truck up their ass sans Crisco, and ask with a straight face, are you in yet?
I met a handsome guy during my single years at a bathhouse in Fort Lauderdale. He was cruising something fierce, had his own room, and drew me into his space, then closed the door. We chatted, as Im not a fuck, dump and go dude (I have standards!). As we started doing the nasty, he tells me midway, that he is "straight, married, and a business traveler, wife and children in another state". I became furious. The thought of someone cheating on their wife and children, at a gay bathhouse, and did not disclose any of this to me prior. Well, the fun went out, and with condom firmly attached to my johnson, I wailed on the guy. Im a big muscular dude, very alpha, and hung, and I nailed him for a good long while as he whimpered and asked me to stop. I withdrew, picked him up and threw him against the wall. I told him that "married straight" men like him are the worst scum on the planet. and then I lied. I told him I saw his ID, and was planning on calling his wife. He cried, begged, and I kicked his ass to the door and left him alone to reflect. I saw him minutes later leaving the facility dressed
That is what calls homosexuals like us faggots. They pretend to be something they are not but deep down inside, they are the most despicable men alive, just like Geiger, who likely has a 3" dick. LMAO
There's plenty of land here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia
Maybe he just hates totalitarian leftist dimwits like raspberry?
And the word faggot needs to be taken back from the gays. The root is fasces, and is appropriately applied to totalitarian leftist cancer like rasberry.
Nah, that's pure projection on your part. You think because you were an angry adolescent faggot that anyone who behaves like an angry adolescent must therefore be a faggot too. People do this with any given issue. It's a cope for bullying. "They only beat me up and stole my lunch because they're jealous of my intelligence, not because I'm a pretentious prick with my head up my ass". You're good people though, so I don't hold it against you. Like I said, we all do that. It's a defense mechanism.
Also your alpha-male-fucks-straight-married-guy story reeks of fanfic LARP. If you're just trolling, that actually makes you even better people in my book though.
No necessarily. I call people names I feel will be the most upsetting if they’re despicable enough. I have no issues with gays, but I regularly call Tony a faggot. Because I hate Tony for being a totalitarian Marxist shitbag. Not for being gay.
There’s an episode of South Park that explains it.
Look, adultery is not a good thing, but no justification for initiating force! The man and his wife could have a consensual open relationship!
This could have been handled by simply asking further, then if he is adulterous, take your balls and go home with no fisticuffs!
And could adultery be worse than being LGBTQ+ and simultaneously being a willing member of a religion that hates you for your sexuality and would want you dead in "this life" and in Hell in the "next life?"
Not nearly as narrow as trying to square individual liberty with leftism.
"Individual liberty" is subjective here. If you never want to speak out against your government, for example, because you just don't give a darn, then head out to Russia. But if you want total freedom to do pretty much whatever you want as long as you're the strongest one in the room, then there are plenty of nations will failed governments that will probably suit your needs. Sure, you might have to worry about the quality of the water, and fend off other people with guns, but what's more libertarian than that?
True, but I don't know where lovers of individual liberty of any stripes go.
If you're a died-in-the-wool social conservative, however, and have no particular attachment to individual liberty, the world is positively chock full of places you can go.
Very true! The Islamic world comes to mind!
That is certainly true.
Can you name one? Other than HURRRR DURRRRRRR SAUDI ARABIA DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR? No place populated by white people that survived the 1600s has any social conservatives. I truly fucking wish I could find all of these dens of persecution you perpetually assblasted faggot whining pricks manage to spend most of your lives, because I'd move there in a heartbeat and never have to see or smell one of your rotten, festering pieces of shit ever again as long as I lived. But I can't swing a dead fucking cat without hitting 100 of you.
Says retardedfire, who can'''''''''t even summon the smarts needed to find his ass, or an apostrophe!
(I provided you a few extras that you can use in the future, retardedfire, now take some Magic Memory Pills to help you find them, next time you need them! Oh, wait, now someone has to teach you WHERE to put them, when you use them! This effort looks futile to me!)
There is a whole fucking hell of a lot more similarity between you and the Taliban and James Madison and the Taliban, sarcasmic. Turns out most "social conservatives" are just sensible, moral people who live their lives as they see fit instead of mentally deranged alcoholic spousal abusers like you who live on welfare in a section 8 apartment because you're too dysfunctional to hold a job and instead spent 12-16 hours per day, every day, 7 days per week, 52 weeks per year posting inane copypasta on Reason.com
In summary, the rest of the world will join me in jubilant celebration when you finally die of cirrhosis of the liver.
We all know you're thinking it anyway, shreek. Go ahead, say it. SOMALIA! ROADZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh look, it's cytotoxic the retarded faggot literally going full SAUDI ARABIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I should have scrolled first!
Wow, what a towering intellect You have there, Oh Great Egghead! (Ooooops, I mean, fluid-gender-gamete-head; I didn't really mean to be a CIS-shitlord).
Also... Did your mommy help you write that?
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:
Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Thank You! -Reason Staff
Can you name one?
How about China?
Go back to bed - you're making a fool of yourself.
How about Iran? Not only an anti-LGBTQ+ Islamofascist Totalitarian Theocracy, but home of the real, OG "Aryan" people. Sound like it's just your speed, Winnie.
Fuck Off, Mrs. Grundy and go fly a kite! That's my Papa Heinlein Declaration of Independence!
Lol. Oh sweetie... China? That's your example of a bastion of social conservatism. China. Social. Conservatism. China. One-child policy China. Religious repression China. Been murdering Christian missionaries for 75 years China.
Yeah, I'm the one making a fool of myself, you brainless historically illiterate paint chip eating fucking retard. If I ever posted anything half this stupid I would kill myself in the most public and disgusting manner possible to make up for it.
Religious repression China. Been murdering Christian missionaries for 75 years China.
Guess Saudi Arabia's not a very good example, either, then.
I suppose you're right - the US is definitely the most socially conservative country in the world. This is demonstrably true. I really don't know what I was thinking.
Thank you for educating me.
Yeah, I ain’t buying that story. I mean how mad can you get at someone you meet in a bathhouse? Does their backstory even matter? Why does the dude cop to being married with a dick in his ass? Couldn’t have waited?
Whatevs.