Kids Can Learn Without Instruction
"It may be the case that [some American] children give up control of their attention when it's always managed by an adult," say some experts.

Don't show this to your kids, because they might cry. But guess how much time children in "traditional societies"—indigenous groups pretty much off the grid—spend in direct instruction, the way American kids do in school?
About 90 seconds a day.
University of Utah anthropologist Karen Leslie Kramer, who has spent 30 years studying Maya villagers in the Yucatan and Pume hunter-gatherers in South America, came up with that estimate. "The opportunities for learning are -everywhere," Kramer says. "It doesn't have to be in a formal environment. Kids are like sponges—they just absorb what's around them."
Kids in traditional societies spend plenty of time playing, away from the adults. But they are also often among the grown-ups, watching what they do, eavesdropping, and helping out.
Then they take that information and use it to build skills such as weaving. "In many traditional societies," Kramer says, "one of the important things to learn is how to weave, because without plastic, we rely on [woven] containers for so much of what we do."
How do kids learn weaving techniques? "They go to the trash dump where baskets have been discarded, and they take them apart the way young boys learned about cars or radios," Kramer says. "And then they figure out how they go back together again. When they're a little older and weaving with their mothers, their mother might say, 'You'd be better off doing it like this.' But in terms of moms sitting down formally and saying, 'OK, step by step, here is how to make a basket'—I have not observed that."
David F. Lancy, author of The Anthropology of Childhood, says the chores and skills that traditional-society kids are mastering require a lot of "persistence, practice, and watching others." But the children "are very much on their own," he explains. "If they go to an adult and say, 'I need help with this,' the adult will send them packing: 'Go away. I'm busy.'" Any teaching happens on the spur of the moment, when adults see the kid hit a speed bump.
What motivates kids to learn anything at all, with no teachers, grades, or trophies? "Once a kid can walk, they're out the door and down the street," Kramer says. They're drawn by the excitement of being with other kids, especially the ones a little older than them. It is the desire to be like those awesome big kids that motivates the younger ones, the same way you may have been motivated to learn swimming (or swearing) to be like your older sibling. A lot of us in Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic societies have forgotten how much kids learn from other kids, which is every bit as important as learning from an "official" teacher.
"Humans have been incredibly successful as a species," Kramer says, "which is in some ways remarkable, because we go through these demographic bottlenecks several times in our history when there were very few humans and we could have gone extinct. Other species did." Ours didn't, thanks to young people learning so efficiently and constantly.
Our modern culture may be stunting this superpower. In one famous experiment, researchers brought pair after pair of Guatemalan Maya kids, ages 5 to 11, into a room and told Kid 2, "I'm going to teach Kid 1 how to use this toy. Then, when it's your turn, I'll show you how to do something else." Researchers were actually studying how much attention Kid 2 paid when not being directly instructed.
The Maya kids paid lots of attention. Most of them learned the lesson that was not being taught to them. But when the experiment was done in California, the kids zoned out until the adult was directly addressing them.
One of the researchers, University of California, Santa Cruz, psychologist Barbara Rogoff, told NPR the Maya kids clearly were alert to the world, paying attention to whatever they could see and learn, "instead of always depending on adults to tell them what to pay attention to." She added, "It may be the case that [some American] children give up control of their attention when it's always managed by an adult."
If we want our kids growing up smart, alert, and adaptable, they need chances to learn the old-fashioned way. That means giving them more free time with other kids of all ages.
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A lot of us in Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic societies have forgotten....
Humorously; it seems a lot (of us) have forgotten we are NOT a democratic society but a CONSTITUTIONAL Union of Republican States.
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guess how much time children in "traditional societies"—indigenous groups pretty much off the grid—spend in direct instruction, the way American kids do in school?
About 90 seconds a day.
I'll bite. How much time do American kids in school spend in direct instruction?
Does instruction include ideology and party doctrine?
Snark aside, I wonder about comparison to these indigenous societies, most of which are VERY conservative and doctrinaire. Sure, kids might learn through watching but I would bet much of what they see (and are deliberately told "off the clock") is how they need to conform to the old ways.
I'm not going to sing the praises of government funded schooling, but the idea that children don't need any kind of formal instruction to become productive adults in a modern society is pants-on-head retarded. Pure, unfiltered, intellectual sewage.
Perhaps clarifying the definition of "formal instruction" would go a long way in your stated point.
I can assure you that for me; formal instruction from people actually DOING and being "productive" in modern society has gone a sh*t-load farther in 'educating' me on how to be productive than disruptive classrooms of bookies trying to dictate theology onto everyone without even having the productive tools to demonstrate their theology. And then there's the whole natural rights dismissal that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Just because a Non-Producer teacher was paid to teach doesn't mean anyone is listening. A personal desire to learn something has to be there or everyone is just wasting time.
And I think you're wrong, except for very narrow areas. Formal instruction is enormously overdone, could easily be cut down to 5-10% of what it tends to be these days. There are very few, specialized things for which formal instruction is efficient.
I would think it depends on how you classify time they are forced to spend on rote memorization of pointless things like "times tables" instead of being taught how multiplication works.
From the same people who told us that on-line learning would be GREAT...
...or you could just stop complaining about the Nazi-Regime and go start/enroll in any 'educational' institute that works....
Oh yeah; The Nazi-Regime made that practically 'banned' by Nazism(National Socialism) of commie-education "for the children" by demanding it and authoring it (accreditation)... Time to repeal, repeal, repeal the Nazi (National Socialist) invasion of the USA and bring back Individual Liberty and Justice ONLY as proper usage of Gov-Guns.
Because lets face it; The only thing that separates government from any run of the mill business/institution/charity is the legal use of GUNS used to dictate people! And only the pursuit of Liberty and Justice is important enough to use GUNS for.
TJJ2000: Seek help.
indigenous groups pretty much off the grid—spend in direct instruction, the way American kids do in school?
About 90 seconds a day.
And how many of them can read?
As many as need to. I didn't learn to read in school, Jean Shepherd said he and his schoolmates all came to school already knowing how to read...it's enough to convince me schooling can only slow down acquisition of reading.
This is what I've been saying for years: that the separation of young people into schools and classes is a huge waste, engendered because adults don't want them around while they're busy with their own business.
Well, the modern school system was never that into education anyway. It's more about Pavlov style classical conditioning so people are good well behaved worker bees with the errant mass shooter likely being a result of unintended consequences.
Bell rings: Begin school / work
bell: recess / smoke 'em if you got 'em
bell: back to class / work
bell: lunch!
bell: back to work
bell: smoke break
bell: back to work
bell: "Good job today, see you tomorrow" - rinse, repeat.
children in "traditional societies"—indigenous groups pretty much off the grid - have about 90 seconds of direct instruction?
Maybe that's why they are
third world culturestraditional societies.Yeah pretty much this. Reading and math and science and shit gives us hygiene and medicine and modern transportation.
Of course, reading and math and science and shit is now white supremacist, so we're about to start going backwards. Already headed that way in fact.
Reading, math and science is now 'woke' reading, math and science.
Thanks to commie's and their commie-education mandates...
With Gov-Guns at it's heals; there is no guarantee of 'learning' anything true or worthwhile. Just a dictation of someone's theology being 'forced' upon us all.
Pull out the Gov-Guns and then *all* truths and prospective for productive learning will be available. Guns aren't the best tool to teach with. And 'legal' Guns is all government is comprised of.
Reading, math and science (Enlightenment forward) gave us a world where white people came out on top (1700s, 1800s, 1900s). Therefore, those things are racist.
It's really just a tautology.
I'm glad I will die within 20-30 years or so. Things are going to get so much worse.
Wanna be an engineer? Doctor? Scientist?
No need for instruction! Just get your degree from Costco!
Doctor: "OK, ready for the vasectomy?
Patient: "Where did you learn to do vasectomies?"
Doctor: "Oh, I learned it experientially. No need for formal instruction, you know..."
Or the non-government forced ISO standards....
Seems your 'lack of gov-guns' will cause incompetency doesn't hold much water and frankly I've seen more than enough commie-education granted doctors who have had absolutely no clue about what they are doing to not get sold on the idea commie-educations blessings....
....And Obama was a Constitutional Law Professor by the gift of commie-education acknowledgement.
TJJ2000: Too much crack?
Yeah, and look where "indigenous groups" are now.
There's are reasons the West effectively took over the rest of the world, with education and widespread literacy at the top of the list.
lol.. Never-mind it took over the rest of the world long before commie-education went full-fledged government institution. Today we've made sooooooooo much progress all our technology comes out of China or Japan.
insanely dumb article, even for Reason dot com.