High-Quality 'Public' Schools Don't Want Low-Income Students
School enrollment based solely on geography must come to an end.

Public education nationwide is not as free or equal as many would like to believe it is.
Most K–12 school children are assigned to their public school through geographic school districts. Educational opportunities are largely determined by where parents can afford to live. Congress acknowledged this in a 2019 Joint Economic Committee report stating, "Families are faced with the reality that attending a high-performing public school often requires paying more for housing, and many students' educational opportunities are limited as a result."
The report found that the median home value in zip codes associated with highly rated schools is quadruple the median home value in zip codes associated with poorly rated schools. This means that students (especially those who struggle with housing insecurity, are in the foster care system, or are simply from a low-income family) can get stuck in low-performing schools and barred from highly rated public schools simply because their families cannot afford to purchase a home in a better district.
Including the cost of tuition in the cost of housing is antithetical to the idea of free public education. Unfortunately, some education officials are outspoken proponents of this system and are working to keep low-income kids out of their classrooms.
Kansas superintendents Tonya Merrigan and Brent Yeager of the high performing Blue Valley Schools and Olathe Public Schools districts recently submitted written testimony in opposition to a groundbreaking proposal that would weaken the bond between housing prices and schooling quality. Merrigan and Yeager claimed they can only offer a high quality education to the families that can afford to buy into their communities.
"While we can certainly empathize with parents in lower-performing districts, both Blue Valley and Olathe are among the highest-performing districts in Kansa—indeed competing nationally—and, as such, would find our districts overwhelmed with requests from non-residents," they wrote. "Without intending to sound elitist, it is nonetheless true that housing costs in our districts often provide a check on resident student growth now."
In other words, the high cost of living keeps less affluent kids out of their schools.
High-performing public schools often have the best and most experienced teachers in a school district and greater academic amenities, such as tutoring services and mentorship. Unfortunately, government-imposed district boundaries create exclusive educational enclaves nationwide. As Tim DeRoche wrote in his book, A Fine Line, "Poor families know that there are good or even great public schools in their district….But their children aren't allowed to attend those schools. Who is allowed to attend? Wealthier people who pay through their mortgage or their rent for access to these public schools that are 'public' in name only."
Despite the fact that vulnerable students would benefit the most from the academic advantages and climate of high-performing schools, geographic barriers and housing prices create an insurmountable barrier. Families that try to get around this unfair system to do what's best for their child can find themselves wrapped up in the court system. This was true for Kelley Williams-Bolar, a mother from Ohio who received two concurrent five-year sentences (suspended to 10 days) for using her father's address to enroll her children in a better school district.
Kansas policymakers, however, are looking to change the geography-based status quo. The House Committee on K-12 Education Budget submitted a proposal that would weaken these barriers through open enrollment. Following the lead of Florida and Wisconsin, this proposed open enrollment policy would allow children to attend any public school outside their assigned school district with open seats on a first-come, first-served basis.
The proposal would break the geographic monopoly by requiring school districts to accept transfer students with limited exceptions, such as capacity. Transfer students cannot displace students who are already residentially assigned to the school district. Each school district would report the number of available seats to the Kansas Department of Education and post them on the district website. School districts would be prohibited from charging transfer students tuition, and the legislation includes a provision about providing transportation to non-resident students. These are just some of the tactics districts use to keep disadvantaged students out of open seats.
Open enrollment makes public education more student-centered, instead of institution-centered, since families have greater flexibility to enroll in public schools that are the right fit for them, rather than being stuck in a certain school because of where they live. And open enrollment is just one part of the wider school choice ecosystem.
Kansas' open enrollment proposal would be a boon to families that cannot afford to purchase homes in expensive school districts, giving them access to high-quality education options.
Most of the nationwide 48.2 million K–12 students enrolled in public schools are stuck in an outdated and discriminatory system. Families, not elitist school districts, should decide where their children can go to school.
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The report found that the median home value in zip codes associated with highly rated schools is quadruple the median home value in zip codes associated with poorly rated schools.
Correlation is not causation.
So, if you take a "certain" type of poor kid and send them to a "rich" school through osmosis they will break the chains of poor performance and become the next Steve Jobs?
Man, that is about the dumbest thing I have heard. Parents want their kids to go to a school close to home. No one wants to ride a gd bus for an hour (especially given how early High School starts to placate the unions).
The issue is one no one wants to discuss...culture. Do you want your kids to be forced to sit in class while the teacher spends most of their time just getting other kids settled down or stopping the disruptions? Or dealing with the bullying from kids from no daddy homes? We have been down this road before. Fix the culture before you decide to put a kid on a bus for an hour. Better yet, get rid of govt schools and just give every parent a small stipend to education their kids.
It's not not causation, necessarily, especially when it's obvious.
Obvious to whom? You have to disqualify yourself, for obvious reasons.
As a realtor who also teaches as a substitute in public schools I can tell you this article is totally correct.
People move, especially in metropolitan areas and their suburbs, to the best school district they can afford, driving up prices and rents in those school districts. People will even sign fake leases on friend's basements to send their kids to a chosen school.
I've had people for example buy the last fixer upper in Kalorama in DC, when they really wanted a turn key property in Dupont Circle, just to get their child into the bilingual Oyster School, and the house they bought was the only one in the edge of the appropriate school district.
If you go to Arlington, VA, poorer south Arlington has schools that are 60% low income immigrants (and some low income Americans), while north Arlington public schools have the children and grandchildren (I've taught them) of President Lyndon Baines Johnson, Sarah Huckabee Saunders, local TV news people, etc.
Bruce, home prices in “desirable” Alexandria neighborhoods are similar to North Arlington but the public schools in Alexandria, in general, are significantly worse. Yet this doesn’t stop people from moving here with the expectation that they will have to send their kids to a private school if they want them to have a quality education.
I've taught for years in a district that has school of choice and a variety of programs that let students choose their school. It's a farce, the district manipulates the system to such an extent that it often forces students to stay at some of the worst schools in our district.
I can guarantee you that the number of seats at highly rated schools will always be near zero, regardless of what the law states.
As it should be.
Local areas need control over their schools, and you can't just admit low income folks from other areas. It ruins the school.
The connection is due in large part to the fact that property taxes fund schools. Another way to try to address this issue is to delink school funding from property taxes and have all funding come from the state in a fair manner.
BULLSHIT
If there’s one thing New Jersey’s small, wealthy school districts have in common with large districts serving economically disadvantaged students, it’s that they usually spend a whole lot of money per student.
The 25 N.J. school districts spending the most per student
It's not all about money.
All of this is more proof that charter schools are the answer.
Or maybe you and your like-minded friends could make up the difference.
The connection is due in large part to the fact that property taxes fund schools.
No, it isn't. It's parent organizations.
I live in a mixed blue-and-white collar neighborhood, where incomes are slightly below median. My local elementary school is well rated, but the annual PTA budget is about $10k. This is one of the wealthier PTAs in the District (which is one of the largest in CA).
About eight miles south of me is a very wealthy area with schools that are considered much more desirable. We have a close friend who was able to get her kids into those schools, and the difference is not in the school's per-student public funding, it's in things like the fact that their annual PTA budget is $2-3 million.
Those schools have tutors, counselors, and after-school programs because the PTA pays for them.
You can have the state confiscate and redistribute as much property tax money as you care to, it will not change that basic fact.
And parents who have both means and motivation will continue to move away from poorer-performing school districts. They want to increase the value they get out of the monetary investment in their children's education. If parents don't think they're getting what they pay for in terms of kids' education, they will move somewhere else. You can't stop them from doing this.
Yeah, parental involvement is the key. Wealthier people have more time and resources to spend on their kids. As well as more social mobility to move to better performing school districts. If inner cities had better performing school districts it wouldn't be long before those districts were largely populated by affluent whites.
I could move 15 miles west and pay half what I pay for housing, but the school district is twice as bad. So, even though we aren't affluent, we pay more to have our kids in a better school. Same county, same property tax rate, but the other school is a reservation school (which means they actually are better funded because of federal grants and funding) but far worse school (teachers are also paid much better) but almost no parental involvement.
You also can't undermine just how big a deal it is to grow up in a household with two parents. Even if they're both working, it's still double the opportunities for someone to help the kid with homework or attend a parent/teacher conference. Districts where single motherhood is much higher are going to skew drastically lower in student outcomes. It doesn't mean those children can't achieve, because many of them will, but the trendline is going to be worse.
We've always tried to work out schedule so one of us is home when the kids are home from school, even if we ended up spending less time together.
That happens in a lot of households. I've known young couples who barely saw each other until their kids were in high school.
Then the school district should find those items that note are provide by the PTA and make them available to all students
Yeah, it's so easy. God, you're really to simplistic to debate intellectually on any subject.
Then the school district should find those items that note are provide by the PTA and make them available to all students
That . . . doesn't even make any sense. Where are they going to get the money to do that? Do remember the comment you made that started this thread?
And this does nothing to improve educational outcomes.
Large numbers of K-12 students leave school innumerate, illiterate, historically ignorant, and economically ignorant.
Fixing that doesn't require any more spending. To the contrary, fewer gimmicks, fewer extracurricular facilities, fewer administrators, fewer school-provided services, etc. would likely greatly improve US educational outcomes.
K-12 education requires little more than a blackboard, notebooks, and a heated and dry room. That, and teachers and students who actually care.
'Should,' find them where, and make them available using what funding? You don't have to prove your limited grasp of every topic, every time, super-liberal. You could even strive for a nuanced view on individual rights, and not looking at a world through the lens of how you believe things should be.
"it's in things like the fact that their annual PTA budget is $2-3 million."
It's not even the funding.
I was in Pasadena, and was getting ready to send my kids to one of the Private schools there. The total tuition INCLUDING the expected donations was about 80% of what Pasadena Unified spends on its kids.
Now living in Orange County, yes, we have a huge war chest- our district parent fund is possibly the largest in the country. But we use it to pay for music programs, not tutors or councilors. A full music program is nice to have, but the lack of one doesn't result in poor education. As the private schools in Pasadena showed, it wasn't the lack of money, it was that the money wasn't being spent efficiently.
These "poor" districts still spend ungodly amounts of money students. But because parents aren't involved (and are often kept at arm's lengths), people don't realize how poorly the money is being spent. It is usually being spent on a bloated administrative layer that does nothing towards educating the students.
It is usually being spent on a bloated administrative layer that does nothing towards educating the students.
And expensive construction projects. Districts that lack community involvement will tend to have school boards consisting of contractors, construction consultants, and trade union reps. They spend a lot more time, energy, and money working on their bond programs and long term facilities planning than they do on curriculum or wondering why their educational metrics are so poor.
My local district has certainly shown that you can keep flooding a District with money without improving the outcomes at all if the people managing the money are corrupt and/or morons (in my district it's both).
But my point for Molly is that property taxes are only one piece of the funding pie, and not one where the distribution is even particularly "inequitable." The "inequity" is in what families personally contribute, and there's no way to change that, really, no matter how much you try to equalize tax-based funding across schools.
And it's worth pointing out, following the trend that you describe, that the schools in the poorer areas of my district get more funding than the other schools, but it's Title 1 funding which means that it has to go to essentially anything but education - i.e. a bloated administrative layer that does nothing toward educating the students.
Administrative bloat is a big problem with all levels of public education. Most universities the administration outnumbers faculty. It wasn't that way forty years ago, hell it wasn't that way when I graduated high school and did a year in college before joining the army in the mid 90s. And costs were a lot less.
The high school I went to had one principle and the district one superintendent. It has shrunk in student population but now they have a principal and a vice principal, each with their own secretary (there was one secretary when I graduated for the whole school) and a superintendent and an assistant superintendent. Despite this, grades and test scores have decreased while behavior issues and drop outs have increased.
I'm pretty sure that Molly's solution would be to simply confiscate more from parents and passersby to remove the "inequity".
Of course. Because that's one of the unbreakable tenets of the cult:
"ANY inequality of result is the result of racism." Because black and white people are exactly the same. I guess.
It's right up there next to: "A trans woman is a woman." Which is so unbreakable that reality itself is sometimes found to be in error.
Has California dropped the revenue-sharing laws forcing schools with PTAs/PTOs that raise large sums to share with schools that don’t have such organizations?
We should applaud those parents for contributing to their child's school, to make sure their kids get the best education.
That's what good parenting is.
Okay, let's pool all property taxes spend on education (property taxes are spent on a lot more than just education) at the state level, divide it equally between students and then attach it to each student and allow their parents to spend it how they want, on whichever school they want, public or private. I could get behind that.
^
I've proposed this often.
It came up in the past around here a long time ago, and holy crap do the teacher's unions hate that proposal. Friend of a friend is a teacher and rabid democrat and I mention vouchers when I want to see his ears turn red and get him ranting.
Which proves that it’s a good idea. Anything that makes a democrat writhe in pain is generally good for humans.
+1, diagnostic AND therapeutic.
Bad plan.
We'd just reduce property tax, and rely on private schooling, or in-home tuition.
Good parents aren't going to pay for the education of other people's kids
This wouldn't fix anything. US schools are ridiculously overfunded. Some of the worst performing schools are the best funded, and some of the best performing schools have some of the lowest funding.
The problem with US schools is idiotic curricula, public sector unions, and increasingly lazy and entitled students.
(It would also be wildly unfair, but that's a separate issue.)
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
https://www.cato.org/commentary/americas-most-costly-educational-failure
In your case stupidity suffices.
BTW has Jude contacted Matt Welch for his feelings on public schools?
no no no....so if you work hard, live in a safe and hard working area you get to subsidize those who decided to have a few kids out of wedlock, are poor parents (or more likely parent)? No that is not how this works. And besides today more urban areas get a ton of money from the State for their bloated public schools. The problem is cultural..fix the culture don't subsidize bad behavior
Yeah, actually, that's pretty much exactly how this works.
In Kansas the state has to equalize the funding, so the per pupil spending in the poor districts is the same as the rich districts. In some cases (Kansas City KS vs Shawnee Mission for example) per pupil spending is higher in the poor district.
I'll pass on that. The problem with the funding coming from the State is that the most populous areas will get the most funding. I live in Pennsylvania. If the State handled school funding, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Harrisburg would get everything, screwing the rest of the State.
Same with Washington. The I-5 corridor cities get everything. Everyone else gets scraps.
Including the cost of tuition in the cost of housing is antithetical to the idea of free public education.
But it's inherent to the idea that parents have a right to make choices about the education of their children. Parents have a tendency to vote with their feet and move to where the good schools are, which keeps those districts more expensive to live in.
What you're seeing in supply and demand at work. Tons and tons of money gets thrown into urban schools, which typically far outstrip the money in suburban schools (outside of wealthier areas), but simply throwing money at a problem doesn't guarantee better results.
But it guarantees bigger union donations to politicians - - - - - - - -
I'm not going to read the article, but... is this a proposal to bring back forced bussing?
I have no idea how they're going to transport the students to the schools, but it's an open-enrollment proposal for limited numbers of transfer students.
No, the proposal is to let rich single-income parents live in poor but gentrifying neighborhoods and have the stay-at-home parent shuttle their precious to the better performing school.
I read it as an article that wants everyone to fail.
For Piano Teachers - I cannot or do not want to see that happen
https://www.torontopianotuners.ca
Strange, that was the first thing I thought.
Yes, basically. X quota of disadvantaged kids to shuttle.
It's been brought up before.
https://reason.com/video/2022/01/24/for-too-many-charter-school-families-getting-to-school-is-a-struggle/
Libertarians for Forced Bussing
Schwalbach has it seriously backwards. The single most important reason a school has good student outcomes is the family environment of the students. The same teacher at an award-winning school, moved to a struggling inner-city school, will become dramatically less effective. Parents who make the sacrifice to live in the cheapest residence possible in an excellent, expensive school district (as my parents did) are going to instill a culture of academic motivation, high expectations, high conduct expectations, the ability to defer gratification. When low-performing students move into a high-performing environment, their performance rises somewhat, true. The part that is typically omitted from reports of the research results (if one looks the original research up, as I did) is that the performance of the stronger students drops. I encourage the author to do more research into the topic before making what seems like a plausible argument, without support. - a former teacher and National Merit Scholar
That's the part that makes this complicated: Good schooling tends to be self-selecting. Parents who are the most driven, hard-working, and ambitious tend to be highly invested in their children as well. Because they work hard they teach their children to work hard, and they also work hard at being parents, which elevates outcomes of their children.
Individual students can always overcome their circumstances if they're motivated and hard-working, but the overall trend is going to favor children in better circumstances. We've gone through decades of trying to funnel more and more money into low performing school districts, but kids tend not to respect money they didn't earn. There's no punishment for waste (waste actually gets rewarded because you're encouraged to spend all your funding to keep your funding from being cut) which means everything ends up run down and shitty anyway.
The unspoken issue is poor performance of black kids. The solutions given by the author might make his conscience feel better but they don't work. Its the old AA rational...if you just create slots then everything will work out. I grew up in a poor white area...the biggest problem was the culture..education was not valued. Most of the parents were divorced and engaged in poor behavior. Generations of this impact the kids ability to learn and think in a normal society. Sure by luck (and I was very lucky) some get out..but sending them to a "rich" school isn't going to work...changing the culture and slowly changing the mindset over generations will.
Amen, brother.
"High-Quality 'Public' Schools Don't Want Low-Income Students"
High-Quality 'Public' Schools are high-quality because they don't have Low-Income Students.
For decades, the philosophy has been that low income people are "deprived" of a middle-class environment, and that if they were put in middle-class surroundings, they would blossom into middle-class outcomes.
No matter how often this is tried and fails, it is still the framework for all "debate".
Or eliminate "public" schools (i.e. government employee run schools) and provide all students with a stipend to use only for education. Shift "school bus money" to public transit in a double win.
Radical solution: Make children accountable for their own education starting at age 10. Instead of paying for schools directly, pay the children, out of which they have to pay for their own schooling. Cut off payments if they drop out.
This has the added benefit of making them conscious of money management at a younger age because thy have an income. They have to pick their school, pick their classes, choose what to eat for lunch, all based on their income.
So many children make decisions at the age of 5 with respect to their own education that it destroy their future. I have seen many 5-6 year olds who have chosen to follow their culture and shun the ways of the norther european man that is so successful here.
Racist!!!!! Whitey is always evil!
The 1970s called, it wants its ideas back.
Tomorrow, Schwalbach will present his article arguing for large high-rise public housing projects.
close the conformity factories. did chumby die?
This place has a way of chasing off good commenters.
lucky for me I don't consider myself anything of the sort.
Families, not elitist school districts, should decide where their children can go to school.
They do, and they will.
You forgot to include "they did". That's the part he's trying to undo for the sake of equity.
"Unfair system." How did that creep in there? Rich people get better things than poor people in almost every facet of life. To call that "unfair" is the seed of utopianism, socialism, communism. It is what it is, but it isn't "unfair."
Related but separate, that poor-performing schools are populated or run by poor-performing people, and both are often in poor areas of US cities (and much of rural America), is not a result of unfairness, or economics, but is largely due to culture, values, and behavior.
Related but separate, that poor-performing schools are populated or run by poor-performing people, and both are often in poor areas of US cities (and much of rural America), is not a result of unfairness, or economics, but is largely due to culture, values, and behavior.
Often it's due to the education system being a government-run monopoly dominated by unions in which participation by the poor and unmotivated is mandatory while everyone else opts out in various ways.
You both left out the low drive and low intelligence of many educators, and most administrators. Easy work does not attract the best and brightest.
You both left out the low drive and low intelligence of many educators, and most administrators.
We've kept my daughter in private schools since sixth grade, and this has not been my experience of educators and administrators at the private schools at all.
School districts would be prohibited from charging transfer students tuition, and the legislation includes a provision about providing transportation to non-resident students. These are just some of the tactics districts use to keep disadvantaged students out of open seats.
Oooh, the solutions are always where things get tricky. The above sounds good, and is just vague enough to keep the downstream effects from being too clear.
I mean, one thing we could do is just assign students by random lottery, but imagine the chaos that would create. Students in large urban districts would find themselves being bused across town in what are potentially long commutes. I'm imagining the rich, white affluent family with the "Black Lives Matter" and "In This House We Believe" signs in their front yard, realizing their certain-to-be Harvard bound student being bused an hour to the other side of town to the run-down inner city urban school. I'm imagining it. I'm smiling, but I'm imagining it.
"...attending a high-performing public school often requires
paying more for housingstudents working harder and behaving appropriately..."Fixed it for you.
a/k/a culture, values, and behavior.........
This article might as well be titled "how to kill public schools." Parents with money will not put up with their children being placed in lower performing schools. If you can get engaged lowed income students into higher performing schools, by all means lets do so. But if you start sending kids all over a county to try to equalize affluence levels, you will end up with all of the affluent kids (or motivated ones) in private school.
Otherwise, lets just move to a voucher system and end public education.
We've seen that movie before with forced busing for racial "integration".
Hey man..I could not have said it better myself. Nice to know we have two fans of Ray Stevenson on Reason now..
The Streak is a classic
Parents with money will not put up with their children being placed in lower performing schools.
Except the proposal specifically does not do this, unless you are implying that the higher-performing schools would get worse by the addition of the extra students. Certainly it does not, despite some of the comments, mean forced bussing.
The proposal would break the geographic monopoly by requiring school districts to accept transfer students with limited exceptions, such as capacity. Transfer students cannot displace students who are already residentially assigned to the school district.
School performance is largely unrelated to spending per student in the US. And schools abroad manage to deliver better educational outcomes than US schools at a small fraction of the cost of even the most troubled US schools. The problem with US public schools isn't lack of money, it's politically-driven curricula, public sector unions, and an increasingly entitled and lazy culture.
That is what local government and subsidiarity means: local taxes pay for local services. And those "wealthier people" pay a shitload of money to the federal and state governments that are already used for education grants and other education spending.
If you impose more redistribution on these people, they'll simply start sending their kids to private schools and largely dismantle and defund the local school system.
You know who wouldn't benefit from having large numbers of "vulnerable students" forced into their schools? The students already attending those high performing schools.
vulnerable students would benefit the most from the academic advantages and climate of high-performing schools
He's got it backwards. The "advantages and climate" at high-performing schools are a result of having high-performing, well-behaved students. Add a lot of "vulnerable" students to a high-performing school and the performance of the school will decline.
This reminds me of the imbecilic leftist theory that having poor people move into mixed-income residential developments with middle class people will cause the lower income people to adopt middle class work habits and values. Fortunately, I think the fad of requiring new housing developments have a certain number of units set aside for lower income residents is going the way of the dodo. Yet another leftist idea that was a complete failure.
Chicago is changing its rules for getting into “selective enrollment” high schools, to eliminate the 30% admitted on testing / grades alone. So kids will first be grouped according to zip code “tiers” intended to substitute for income, with a fixed head count target per tier, and then admitted by grades and scores within each tier. The grades/ scores for “lower income” tiers are already significantly lower than for “higher income” tiers, and the change will make it more pronounced. There can’t be any question whether this will decrease the average performance of those schools (it will, by design). The question for those seeking to help kids from the “lower income” zip codes is whether putting kids in the hardest possible school will help or hurt them. Will they immediately perform better, or will they start 9th grade pretty close to where they ended 8th grade? Will they suffer psychologically and educationally from being on the low end academically in their classes? Will it feel worse knowing that the kids from rich zip codes are dominating in your classes? Those kids might do better, and learn to lead and excel better, by tracking where their grades/scores suggest, not higher. If grade schools in the neighborhoods could do better from the beginning, their grades/ scores might not be lower entering into this process (there is no accompanying plan to fix the grade schools); but starting at 9th grade by throwing kids with poor elementary training into the deep end of competitive high schools might see lower success/ graduation rates, together with the psychological burden of feeling worse all day. The kids will do worse, the schools won’t be as academically challenging (and kids from good zip codes will just move to private schools, btw).
"Despite the fact that vulnerable students would benefit the most from the academic advantages and climate of high-performing schools, geographic barriers and housing prices create an insurmountable barrier."
the big lie. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part there's no amount of resources that can be put into these kids who come from homes where their parents do not know how to further their education or simply don't care.
As long as anyone who wants to is allowed to have as many kids as they want to without any requirement that they can actually function as a parent or parents, we're doomed. And since literally no person or people on earth can be entrusted to wield the power to determine who can or cannot be parents, we're doomed.
its all a joke.
we're doomed
We could try not practicing dysgenics by subsidizing the reproduction of the incompetent.
i suspect doom is more likely than society stopping the subsidies
It's parental involvement including parents riding herd on their school-age children. You should see all the per student money spent in East St. Louis, IL schools. There's not much parental involvement. The kids enroll at the beginning in Pre-K and come out of high school with nothing in their heads because the parents aren't active consumers of the school district's product. The really good parents give up a lot to put their students in private schools instead.
Many of the comments are good, while the article is problematic. The most obvious thing wrong with the article is this statement near the end: "Most of the nationwide 48.2 million K–12 students enrolled in public schools are stuck in an outdated and discriminatory system." - No, most students are in pretty-good schools. Not top rank but pretty good. But there are many, mostly in the biggest cities, that are below-average. All of them could be improved, as Jaime Escalante ('Stand and Deliver') showed for a few years. And some schools that are real stinkers.
It would be interesting to explore this article's motivations more, as well as the motivations of opponents of the bill. - We should note that the best schools select to be good.
No, most students are in pretty-good schools.
Not in my area, they're not.
High quality public schools are high quality for a reason.
Does this mean I can get my tax dollars back for homeschooling my kids?
Because if everything is looking like nails again, screw that, I'm out.
""Families are faced with the reality that attending a high-performing public school often requires paying more for housing, and many students' educational opportunities are limited as a result.""
Unfortunately cause and effect are not what they seem. The financial expenditures per student show a negative ROI; poorer performing districts (city core) have per student expenses exceeding neighboring suburban schools. Only a few of the dozens of private high schools have tuition greater than the city school's tuition through taxation.
People move to good districts, and pay handsomely for it, to be with other families in like minded pursuits. Three decades of putting city kids into the county classrooms did nothing for the city kids; it sucks, but at the end of the day they still had all of the disadvantages of being a city kid.
I have seen first hand that most "choice" students don't really appreciate the gift of being in a high performing school, and they often still perform poorly often whilst being behavioral and discipline problems. So yeah Reason, you keep banging that drum so that eventually there won't be any high performing school districts.
Guess what happens to house values when the school is no longer highly rated?
Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.
The difference in “good” schools and “bad” schools isn’t the funding. It’s the involvement of the parents.
My involvement isn’t going to help your kids as much as you think it will.
But if you bus my kids where I can’t be as involved, you will harm my kids.
So. Fuck off.
Amen! Well said and so true.
So parents who care most about their children happen to find themselves in rich neighborhoods by sheer coincidence?
No, caring about your children is a trait of the kind of person that gets rich enough to live in a rich neighborhood. It ain't coincidence.
People like Tony don't understand human nature or why people end up in the circumstances they do. There is some individual unfairness, but in the aggregate, things shake out kind of where they should.
Money = virtue. The Christian libertarian dogma.
How do you people even look at yourselves in the mirror?
We’re good people. Not like you. As democrats are not good people The only way you can look t yourself in the mirror is because you’re a sociopath.
How do you get money=virtue? It's almost certainly more complex. More money often means ability to spend more on helping the kids do better as well as caring that they do better.
I'm not at all virtuous by any Christian measure for sure, but I want my kid to learn so I spend money to get her into a good school and spend some of time and money on helping the school teach. I also value education so I spend time helping my kid learn and since I'm fairly well educated I have the knowledge to do so.
So no Money != Virtue, but Money positively correlates with interest in education and free time to spend helping your kids learn.
The proposal may be bad for many reasons, but it does not look like a forced bussing proposal.
The proposal would break the geographic monopoly by requiring school districts to accept transfer students with limited exceptions, such as capacity. Transfer students cannot displace students who are already residentially assigned to the school district.
I don't think the relative quality of schools matters to the millions of dropouts in America.
I disagree with some of the content of this article. I work in an urban district. Urban districts actually have a lot of money. They receive extra federal funds. I’m not saying that they get as much per capita, but the very sad truth is that wealthy families generally value education over poor families. I’ve worked in schools where kids run the halls all day, don’t listen to teachers and ignore the rules. And I am talking kids that are not in a traumatic events; these are every day occurrences. I also believe that urban schools have many talented teachers, though they admittedly have unskilled ones as well. No one can force parental involvement, but that is the key to any type of real reform. Parental involvement where there is parental involvement correlates to higher performance. Throwing in students that don’t have those values increases burden on other resources and dilutes the program. It’s sad but true. I am a strong proponent of school choice in urban settings and I’m also a proponent of urban school districts having parents and real community y members on the school boards. Having elite liberals run urban schools is an idealogical disaster.
It's hard to get a libertarian angle on this one, unless you count the moribund effort to privatize public school so probably Charles Koch can pocket the profits and force children to be Christians all in one go.
Otherwise, if you believe in public school at all, you're for a program as socialist as you can possibly envision. More socialist than Obamacare, that's for damn sure. Unfortunately for the capitalist dogmatic position, universal public school is an aspect of every society any of you would set foot in.
Fuck you are a fucking one trick pony. And way to stupid to even debate anymore. Just admit that you will eat whatever bullshit the Democrats and CNN and MSNBC (but I repeat myself) tells you to believe. You have never had an original thought ever.
I don't think they are talking about public school on CNN and MSNBC.
It’s not a Sid you care. Your kind have destroyed schooling in this country. 9,is I’m guessing the only use you have for chi,Drew is some pretty teenage boy you can groom to satisfy your deviant lust.
"Otherwise, if you believe in public school at all, you're for a program as socialist as you can possibly envision."
Public schools aren't socialism. But nice job not giving a flying fart about facts.
"Good schools" always magically appear where the adults in the community are engaged, involved and often educated and economically successful.
And remarkably, "Bad Schools" just somehow always bloom in neighborhoods where the adults are significantly less successful.
Could it be it's not the teachers so much as the background of the students?
Put your "good teachers" in the "bad schools" and see how "good" those teachers are.
And just because I don't make $500k a year is no reason for the government to not provide me with a Porsche.
Can't have it both ways reason.
You sit here and argue for charter schools ad nauseum which, surprise surprise, also don't want low income kids. They want the best and the brightest, want taxpayer money, and by default just say fuck those low income kids and their education, or lack thereof.
So which is it? Are you arguing the public schools should take all the low income kids that your precious charter schools don't want? I guess so so you can further bolster your argument that "charter schools are needed." You weaken them then argue to privatize further.
Bunch of selfish fucks.
Where do you get the notion that charter schools don't want low-income kids? Many of the urban ones use lottery systems to fill their spots and they get the same money (as it comes from the state) regardless of income of the family of the student. What charter schools don't generally want are kids whose parents aren't invested in their education. Are you claiming that these are low-income people?
Moreover, I don't see the hypocrisy. First, different authors, even at the same publication, can have different ideas. Second, I feel like you fail to distinguish between viewing things pragmatically versus ideologically. For example, voucher systems and charter schools are not all that libertarian, it still requires taxation and state subsidy of education. However, it is far more in line with libertarian ideas than the typical American public school system.
Charter schools don’t want low income kids? You have a citation on that?
This is not such a great idea. The problem is that you end up having kids with very different educational levels in the same school. If you have kids who come from affluent areas and poorer areas, with the corresponding difference in academic performance, you will have teachers who have to deal with kids that have very different academic levels in the same class and grade.
This is what has happened in South Africa, where I live. Instead of improving the poorer schools, you force functioning schools to take kids from dysfunctional districts. Those kids then make the task of the teachers in the functional districts much harder, lowering the quality of the education the kids at the functioning schools get, while placing poorly performing kids in an environment where they cannot cope. We have a bigger problem than the US, however you could end up with a teacher that has to teach kids that have attained content that is years behind most of their peers. This is an impossible task for most teachers.
Don't worry. The progressive plan is to lower the standards for everybody such as is being done in the state of Oregon.
Soon, even a downright moron will be given a high school diploma.
Remember, what happens in progressive states soon spreads everywhere.
“School districts would be prohibited from charging transfer students tuition, and the legislation includes a provision about providing transportation to non-resident students.”
No mention on the article about who pays for these or of district students. State & Federal aid only supplements the cost per pupil so will the “resident” district reimburse the transfer district for the cost of educating the student or are the taxpayers in the transfer school supposed to pay for out of district students?
When I taught in a Brooklyn public school in the 2000-2001 academic year, my pay was $30,000 and the city spent over $16,000 per student. At that point, it's practical to eliminate the schools and just send a teacher into every home to teach the kids.
I would happily tutor students at home for $16,000 a pop.
This proposal is simply an extension of the notion that spending more money in poor districts will improve the education of those children. Or busing children to different schools. All of this has been tried and shown to not work. It's all about the home environment, not property values. The solutions that consistently work are vouchers and charter schools. But the teachers unions and public school boards fight these at every opportunity.
is there even a single example of a school that went from "bad" to "good" just by funneling money to it? I feel like if there were they would never let us hear the end of it.
As someone from NJ, i am well aware of the tripling or quadrupling of the funding to the abbots with literally NO performance gains materializing. Now every time someone out here in AZ says we need to fund education i'm like "Why, so we can have expensive shitty schools?"
You're asking to end parents' control over where their children go to school- and that's just not going to happen.
The most frustrating aspect of the articles in Reason is that despite its apparently libertarian roots, there is mostly the same leftist garbage opinions that help no one because leftists would rather be politically correct at the expense of actually helping people. Lefties pretend they want to help, but won't accurately identify the real issues. If you refuse to acknowledge reality you can't help anyone because your solutions are meant to make you look virtuous, not effective. The absolute worst part is that there are sh*tty ghetto parents out there who genuinely think that sending their kid to a high perfrming suburban school is the antidote to their sh*tty parenting, and that is because lefties keep banging this drum of inequality and its way easier to believe the lefties than it is to actually put in the work.
i imagine if a kid has parents who care enough to think sending them to a high performing suburban school will help them, that kid might have a shot at succeeding.
its the kids whose parents truly do not give a shit at all that the leftists want to send to "good" schools and ruin it for every student
My preferred approach would be to shut down public schools altogether. You would then be "free" to attend any (private) school of your choice. (The private schools, of course, would also be "free" to reject you for any reason whatsoever.) No, this wouldn't be "equal," but I bet dollars to donuts it'd drastically improve students' behavior, the amount of effort they put in, and the overall quality of education.
High quality and public schools is an oxymoron. There's no such thing.
Public schools should be sued for malpractice.
I taught for about 3 years full time, as a long-term substitute in the suburban DC schools in Falls Church and Arlington (Virginia). The schools are obviously segregated by class, which to some degree correlates with race. North Arlington has $3 million homes and almost all white student bodies. When the children are not white they are Asian, or they are Caribbean and African or middle Eastern students whose parents are often embassy staff or on some job where they are here only temporarily. South Arlington has many schools that are 60% Latin immigrants, plus other immigrants and a few African Americans. No white kids. Houses here may be outnumbered by rentals, and the houses may be more like $600,000.
Since this violates the ethos of Arlington, a one party Democrat jurisdiction, they have a few fixes. They have one magnet school, Arlington Science Focus, that has no ethnic majority. But you have to be gifted at and interested in science and math to attend. The result is a school with large white and Asian pluralities, and a large number of north African and Arab kids who are often here just temporarily while their foreign parents work here. Still almost no African American kids.
The other very ludicrous fix is to import lower income blacker and browner kids into the school, but segregated them within it. The main version I have seen of this is programs that "mainstream" autistic and other disabled or behavior problem kids "into" a school. But what really happens is that a special segregated class of kids is created, kids who could not even perform at the standards of the school in the lower income neighborhood they live in, but who are bused across town to be in a segregated class (the Virginia program is called "MIPA") where they are taught or even just managed at a kindergarten level, and only interact, or rather are present with, the other children at the school at lunch and recess. But they are counted as part of the student body when doing the racial and ethnic statistics for the school.