New Zealand Joins the International Crackdown on COVID Mandate Protests
Disagreement over pandemic policy accelerates the slide toward authoritarianism in another country.

Last week, with the world understandably distracted by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, New Zealand authorities took advantage of the moment to disperse an inconvenient protest against pandemic mandates. Like Canada's Freedom Convoy, by which it was inspired, the protest was grounded in grassroots disagreement with authoritarian policies, mixed with a little nuttiness, and had outlived its welcome. Also like its inspiration, the protest in New Zealand was forcibly shut down to the surprise of those with preconceptions about peaceful, tolerant democracies. Governments are most peaceful, it turns out, when there's little dissent to test that tolerance and, under pandemic stresses, gloves are coming off in an increasingly illiberal world.
"Police in riot gear cleared a protest camp outside New Zealand's Parliament on Wednesday, sparking violent clashes that saw dozens arrested as protesters hurled bricks and set fire to their tents," Michael E. Miller wrote March 2 for The Washington Post. "In what Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said was a planned operation to remove the camp, hundreds of officers assembled at dawn and began towing the cars and trucks demonstrators have used to block streets for more than three weeks, in imitation of the 'Freedom Convoy' in Canada."
Weeks of protesters camped out in your city can fray the nerves even of people sympathetic to the cause—just ask Seattle residents who remember the degenerating condition of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)/Capitol Hill Occupied Protest (CHOP) from summer 2020. Sanitation deteriorates, noise disturbs people's sleep, and the situation can turn violent, testing everybody's limits. But, like their counterparts in Ottawa, the authorities in Wellington shocked many observers.
"Officers, many bearing riot shields, responded with pepper spray and rubber bullets. At least 60 people were arrested, and three officers were taken to hospitals," Natasha Frost noted for The New York Times of violence on the part of both cops and protesters. "Such scenes are rare in New Zealand, a country known for its relative remoteness, serenity and stability."
Unlike Canada, which imposed a financial police state and is still hunting wrong-thinkers who dared to donate to the Freedom Convoy, New Zealand officials have so far stuck with old-fashioned head-busting. But politicians in both nations seem united in disbelief that anybody could disagree with them.
"After all, when we are in the middle of a pandemic, and 400 people hospitalized and 20,000 people becoming sick in just one day, it's almost impossible to comprehend that people would stand opposed to efforts to slow that down," New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern huffed of protesters camped around Parliament. It echoed Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's slap at the Freedom Convoy for "unacceptable views."
It's not really obvious that protesters "stand opposed to efforts" to curb COVID-19. While decentralized movements represent a range of views, polls say many participants oppose vaccine mandates, travel restrictions, curfews, and other dictates that elevate public-health wisdom of the moment over personal freedom. If disagreeing with government is "unacceptable," that's a problem given that the powers-that-be in liberal societies are supposed to be open to challenge. But politicians around the world are increasingly overt about denying their fallibility.
"The world is becoming more authoritarian as non-democratic regimes become even more brazen in their repression and many democratic governments suffer from backsliding by adopting their tactics of restricting free speech and weakening the rule of law, exacerbated by what threatens to become a 'new normal' of Covid-19 restrictions," Sweden's International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance (IDEA) warned at the end of 2021.
"Canada's citizens feel that they have little control over their lives, a sentiment that has been compounded by pandemic-related restrictions on individual freedoms," The Economist commented in its Democracy Index 2021 even before the Freedom Convoy crackdown. New Zealand scored higher, but that was before the protest and in the context of a world in which liberal democracies' respect for individual liberty has long been deteriorating.
"Since 2008, freedom has declined for four in five people globally, the recently released 2021 Human Freedom Index (HFI) shows," Ian Vasquez of the Cato Institute and Fred McMahon of the Fraser Institute observed last month. "And that's the good news. The report, which we co-author, is based on 2019 data, the most recent comprehensive data. The skies have darkened since."
"The decline in freedom is wide-ranging. It affects countries large and small, dictatorships and democracies, and all regions of the planet," they added. "The freedoms that have declined most are speech, religion, and association and assembly."
New Zealand already had a checkered history with free speech, including a national censor. With France, the country co-sponsors a campaign against allegedly "terrorist and violent extremist" content that has, inevitably, bled over into restrictions on ideas that politicians find "unacceptable" or "impossible to comprehend." David Seymour, leader of the libertarian-leaning ACT party, toured New Zealand last year opposing a proposal to curb speech that some consider hateful. "I don't think it's going to help for the state to come in and put one side or another in jail depending on which side they think deserves it most," he told a reporter about threats to criminalize debate.
Unfortunately, headlines offer further evidence that the rot goes deep. In November, Dutch police fired on rioters opposing pandemic restrictions. French police used tear gas on anti-lockdown protesters last month. Protests in many countries have turned violent, though you have to wonder what authorities expect when they shutter businesses, restrict people's movements, and issue dictates. Even in the U.S., officials voice hostility towards contradiction of official narratives.
Surgeon General Vivek Murthy "asked tech companies to do their part by turning over data on 'COVID-19 misinformation,' including its sources and its propagation through search engines, social media platforms, instant messaging services, and e-commerce sites, by May 2," Reason's Jacob Sullum cautioned last week. "While Murthy himself has no power to compel disclosure of that information, the companies have strong incentives to cooperate, since the Biden administration can make life difficult for them by filing lawsuits, writing regulations, and supporting new legislation."
Already losing patience with populations that don't always do what they're told, governments found in the COVID-19 pandemic an excuse to become less tolerant and more draconian. New Zealand is just one among many democracies where it's unclear how free they'll be in the future.
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Geez folks, haven't we read the memo? #Resist has been superseded by #Obey.
Ah ah ah-- you didn't say "Simon Says"! And so onto the beating-in-place.
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And vice versa. Back in the BLM period, protests calling for Constitutional 4th-8th protections for African Americans with their endless attending videos of police beatdowns somehow didn't lead to the same warnings of "increasing authoritarianism" with those most reflecting your view here.
Reason headlines from the period were more along the lines of "D.C. Black Lives Matter Protesters Adopt Strategy of Intimidating Random White People" and "Why Violent Protests Backfire". Vehicles driving into protesters blocking streets frequently cheered in comment threads. Imagine if pro-science folks were driving cars into anti-covid policy protests (which on the margin reflect honest opinions about mandates, but mostly just reflect the dominant bunk 'covid deaths are a hoax' and classic anti-vax movements).
Interesting parallels with the Ukraine invasion. Ukrainian citizens sending videos of shelled out buildings to Russian family, who refuse to believe it's happening and counter-lecture that mainstream media is fake news and it is a selective military operation to remove Nazis. Parallels the endless reports of people trying to reason with family members about covid and vaccination, including health care workers listening to patients tell them they don't have covid and aren't going to die because it is all bogus, even as their oxygen levels plummet. Progress by some in figuring out how to hack the human social brain and exploit its weaknesses at scale. Figuring to be the trend of the century (if not the conclusion of the species.)
Back in the BLM period, protests calling for Constitutional 4th-8th protections for African Americans with their endless attending videos of police beatdowns somehow didn't lead to the same warnings of "increasing authoritarianism" with those most reflecting your view here.
Probably because your side thinks Black Lives only matter when they're hurt by cops.
The "endless attending videos" was the dead giveaway regarding your propaganda, by the way.
At least the anti-mandate folks didn't burn down places in multiple cities to make their point.
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Let me guess, all the videos are fake. No doubt the mass-fake-editing conspiracy is coordinated by the human rights monitors.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/08/usa-law-enforcement-violated-black-lives-matter-protesters-human-rights/
"Obey" clowning.
"At least the anti-mandate folks didn't burn down places in multiple cities to make their point"
How many large cities do you imagine there are in New Zealand?
Is this your final argument or would you like to hunt around a bit for better hypocrisy evasion.
How many large cities do you imagine there are in New Zealand?
You're the one who brought up BLM, you slack-jawed kiwi. Are you even familiar with how many black people get killed in Chicago on an average holiday weekend by other black people? That's just one fucking (left-wing voting) city.
Or the black teenagers who were executed by BLM at the CHOP in Seattle, or David Dorn who was killed while trying to stop looting.
No, you truly don't give a single fuck about black lives unless they're harmed by the police. Get the fuck out of here with your white-boy self-loathing.
Oh let me look at the program – wonderful, Red Rocks White Privilege is doing the solo tonight, and has selected straw man for the featured fallacy. He's emphasizing what a champion of black lives he is again – not likely there will be any dry eyes tonight. He does tend to go on a bit but straw man is an absolute banger and crowd pleaser, especially with many of the "Reason" forum regulars, sure to be a special moment. And the director has been selecting so much ad hominem, correlation/causation and false choice fallacy for the program lately so the timing is good.
Huh? The most intense hostility to BLM was from social conservatives, whose track record on the topic dates back to the civil rights era, hostility to MLK, open season on those Black Lives, segregation, dogs, firehoses and church bombings. Wtf do you imagine "my side" believes and according to what upside-down logic does my forced membership in this side entail greater hostility to black folk than that?
Hey, I don't mind that you hate yourself for the original sin of your white skin color. I just wish you'd do the logical thing and hang yourself instead of insisting everyone else indulge in such laughable self-flagellation.
I mean, for fuck's sake, when you have to go back over 50 fucking years to make your point, you've pretty much lost the argument.
BLM was in 2020, two years ago. The reference is to how this is the latest in a 50 year pattern of hostility to extending such Constitutional rights for blacks, and the Orwellian absurdity of describing those most resistant as the champions of black folk.
How well has this propaganda line been landing with African American voters, btw? Georgia maybe answered that eh. Not always as easy to push these inverted Orwellian notions on other populations unwilling to bury themselves in the same echo chamber media. Feel free to blame rational Consitutionalists for it all if it helps.
The subject isn't your rage at 'race traitors' wanting to extend Constitutional rights to black citizens as well, though understandable you might fixate on that.
The subject is how #Resist is the new #Obey. As a reflection on how this used to be inverted, just how loudly did you cheer when federal forces were emergency authorized to lift protesters off the street without cause or warrant? A beer-spilling cheer moment in #Obey history if there ever was one yeah.
Pretty weak sauce, here.
WHen RIOTERS were wilfully blocking streets, dragging folks out of their cars when they inadvertently made the wrong turn, were beating, even shooting/killing passersby, they left little to pity when tjey did get their well-earned comeuppances from "da man". RIOTERS filling the streets, throwing frozen one litre water bottles, using mace, bear spray, blinding folks iwith lasers, and chucking molotov cocktails at will were a far cry from the peaceful non-violent folks protesting the stuipd virus mandates, NONE of which do anything to slow let alone stop the spread of the virus, and the whiles denying and prohibiting the use of KNOWN cheap effective SAFE earl tratment modalities.
GO find a better place to float your winge.
"little to pity when tjey did get their well-earned comeuppances"
Yeah, that's what I mean. If a protester anywhere threw something at a cop, all of the beatings elsewhere at the hands of cops were something to cheer. Pro-"Obey" clowning. Exhaustive lists of incidents of violence at BLM protests have been compiled, and don't read anything like your media filtered description of the world.
I assume you are just wanting to highlight that if you selectively review events you can justify whatever you like. Everyone knew that.
"a far cry from the peaceful non-violent folks"
Lol like the guy driving his car into the police line.
"whiles denying and prohibiting the use of KNOWN cheap effective SAFE earl tratment modalities"
As I wrote, "reflect the dominant bunk 'covid deaths are a hoax' and classic anti-vax movements". Here comes the ivermectin conspiracy theories.
How come the cheap and effective "modalities" (eye roll) can't show value in RCTs? I know, I know, it's the internet. The answer to all questions is "it's a conspiracy".
????
Also consider the high rates of black violent crime, far in excess of any other racial group in America. Things like drive-by shootings, knockout king, burning down neighborhoods over the death of black criminals killed while resisting arrest.
Check all these things out on the internet, while we still have some modicum of freedom.
Not sure why you are making these comments in context. Are you saying these as the reasons why police need to have latitude to go "rough" in the former President's memorable words, inflict more street justice and avoid being "too nice"?
There are tradeoffs with Consitutional protections for sure. No one says you have to be in favor of liberty in the tradition of the U.S. Constitution. There are other countries out there with different attitudes towards civil liberties and increased commitment to ethnic nationalism that might align better with your personal philosophy.
"Last week, with the world understandably distracted by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, New Zealand authorities took advantage of the moment to disperse an inconvenient protest..."
Imagine that.
Just as planned.
"While everyone was distracted by memes about Zelensky's ball size, authoritarians took more control of your life. SURPRISE!"
No, the police waited til there were hardly any kids at protest. New Zealand rightwing media (funded by Steve Bannon American media network) was telling protesters to use children as human shields. And this was after a protestor tried to ram a line of police officers with his car. These were violent protesters who public threats of violence shut down 2 girls highschools, the university, several bus and train stops, local cafes and restaurants. These were not anti mandate protesters, they are antivaxx conspiracy theorists who started wearing tinfoil hats to protect themselves from the governments electromagnetic radiation weapon that gives people the same symptoms as covid.
Where is the evidence of any of this? You're just promoting conspiracies as this point.
Google, how many days to elections in New Zealand?
Google says, "New Zealand law requires elections at least once every three years and two months, though elections are often held after three years, traditionally in November."
Google, how many days to midterms?
Google says, "In 246 days."
Looks like NZ's last election was in October of 2020, meaning they aren't due for another until January of 2024
October 2023 is the very latest that the next elections can be held. However Aunt Cindy has a great deal of freedom in picking when the election is to be held and traditionally governments have done so "early" if they think they have an advantage to do so.
Elections don't matter because people don't want to be free, they prefer to oppress their neighbors.
New Zealand doesn’t have mid terms.
Google, Why is pure democracy considered mob rule?
Like Justin, Jacinda Ardern is a graduate of Klaus Schwab's Global Leadership program.
Every single one of the politicians, judges and business leaders who participated in the crackdown in Canada were WEF Global Leadership program grads or Fellows.
Trudeau and his Deputy PM, his NDP partner in the coalition government, Jagmeet Singh, the only premier to ban the convoy in his province, Tim Houston, the judge who ruled to block the funding, the CEOs of the three major banks who jumped the gun and froze protesters accounts before the Emergency Act came into force. All program grads.
When I read Schwab's books it became beyond obvious to me that the WEF is a cargo cult with a messianic mission.
One World, one technocracy to rule it.
That's pretty distressing. Any ideas how to counter it? Just, "vote for other people"?
Sorry, I'm pretty mentally exhausted these days.
Vote with your feet, move to a Republican state or Sweden.
Gonna run out of places to run to sooner or later.
It has been an interesting few years following where the money goes, for certain.
Would have previously been unimaginable that some loathsome little lingerie pervert like Schwab held such power, or needed smiting by an errant meteor so badly. All of them.
New Zealand wasted the last two years under lockdown. Now, Covid cases in New Zealand have exploded to world record numbers as the rest of the world’s cases drop like a stone.
They will now waste another year while the rest of the world moves on.
The NZ equivalent of the FDA wasted three months pretending they were relevant and that they needed to analyze the vaccine results that had already passed the EU, USA, UK and Australian testing.
Orders weren't placed until long after the EU/US/Australia had placed them resulting in being far down the queue for receiving (the government of course boasted that we were "first in line").
RATs were banned because the Health Ministry wouldn't have had so much control over numbers/reporting. Finally a few were approved for "critical" businesses to import. Once it became clear that large numbers of RATs would be needed and that they'd screwed up again by not ordering in time, they confiscated the business orders (while denying they had done so).
Its basically a story of being lucky because we are an island 2500km from the next nearest landmass and thinking that it was competence instead of luck. Once the luck ran out, the rest of the time has been spent saying "look how good we were in 2020/2021, please ignore everything since".
New Zealand had two years of paradise, 2 short lockdowns, meant, we had music festivals, stadiums full of people watching sports, in class learning at schools and universities. Our economy is better for it. All because we had 9 weeks of lockdown in 2 years. I live in Dunedin which has a 95% vaccine rate for those over 18 years of age, so vaccine mandates don’t really affect our hospitality industry because its only 5% of customers are affected..
but more importantly than money or the economy, we have the 3rd lowest death per capita rate in the world for coronavirus. (Actually it the second lowest, because China is number 2 and nobody believes the figures they send to WHO). We are a model of success.
You're an island, and you're behind the immunological times.
Every time you open up for any travel or trade, you will meet the world again. And we have cooties.
We have the highest vaxx rates in world and lowest covid deaths per capita. Anyone who wants a Rat test for free can collect them from test site if you say you have symptoms. We already opened our boarders. We successfully eliminated covid for 2 years and now we are mostly all vaxxed we have abandoned elimination and allow covid and people in. At the end of our first wave we will eliminate mandates and restrictions. History will judge us as a example of what to do.
Except it sounds like you got to experience Omicron like the rest of the world as soon as the borders opened.
So. Island.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/462260/omicron-surge-kiwis-overseas-on-what-the-covid-19-wave-is-like
sorry to burst your bubble, but there are no vaccines. there are mrna injections, but they are not vaccines. the drugs don't prevent transmission nor contraction of the virus. there is little evidence that the drugs "lessen the effect of the virus when contracted". until you people realize that you need to open up your society and let people contract this virus you'll be living in tyranny. history has already judged you and your county looks like an island of idiots.
Oh your lockdown in Dunedin was short. How nice. Mine in Auckland was really really really long. While you were out drinking coffee in cafes and chattering about how wonderful things were, and speculating on how tasty Jacinda's taint would be, we were locked down far beyond the point where any rational person would say there were any benefits left. It was no surprise at all that the lockdown was only relaxed after it was clear that compliance with it was less than 50% of Aucklands population.
I am not sure how that has been unexpected. Ardern's government has been the one of most draconian and smugly confident in their righteousness of their decisions of any Anglosphere countries. It is not shocking they would want to shut down people questioning their authority.
New Zealand-where sheep outnumber people.
...and the people are scared.
I never get tired of these sheep memes.
How do you tell the difference?
9 American states have more cattle than people.
Is that an issue somehow? There are several states that are filled with rural farmers with under a million population. What are your objections?
Not that you are able to provide proof of your claims anyway.
Other islands like Hawaii and Puerto Rico and other English countries like Britain, Canada, and Australia are as oppressive as New Zealand. People in Florida are lucky to have DeSantis.
Maybe it's time for regime change in NZ.
Not to worry about Ardern, she'll be quite comfy in her stall with a feedbag over her face.
Enlightened progs don’t want to see the tabbacky chewing riffraff in their gardens while they sip their herbal tea.
There wasn't a great deal of sympathy in my city for the people of Wellington who's lives were disrupted by the protest. Not when Wellington ordered my city into lockdown for the second or third longest period of any city in the world. (Which of course also failed to eliminate COVID but made Wellington feel good). So f*** Wellinton.
I saw lots of sympathy for Wellington school girls, unistudents who had to go back to remote learning due to violent threats from protesters. Taking away Wellingtonians freedom and locking down part of the city seemed counter to the message a freedom and peace the tinfoil hat wearers claimed. First rule of protest, get local support.
You mean they had to do all the things that people in the locked downs part of the country had to do. How terrible for them. Boo hoo hoo, my heart bleeds for the Wellingtonians who had to suffer ever so briefly. Or move one block away and not have to notice it at all.
"Governments are most peaceful, it turns out, when there's little dissent to test that tolerance and, under pandemic stresses, gloves are coming off in an increasingly illiberal world."
Most peaceful or mostly peaceful?
"Canada's citizens feel that they have little control over their lives, a sentiment that has been compounded by pandemic-related restrictions on individual freedoms,"
And far too many of Canada's citizens feel grateful.
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion–when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing–when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors–when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you–when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice–you may know that your society is doomed." - Ayn Rand
Y'know, might well be time for another read of that.
Too accurate. I would feel compelled to throw magnets in an insurance agency server room or something.
Didn’t Any Rand become a welfare queen before she died? Only surviving off government handouts. What the name of the book she wrote explaining her total change of mind.
Sorry Ayn Rand
Uh... no?
https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/individual-rights/the-myth-about-ayn-rand-and-social-security/
https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2011/03/social-security-is-not-welfare.html
It is worth noting that the measures being protested have shown no efficacy in slowing the spread of covid.
I’m a kiwi and that wasn’t a anti mandate protest, it was a antivaxx protest by violent conspiracy theorists threatening school girls and old ladies. Their protest spot is now overtaken by pro Ukraine protesters, who are welcomed by the locals.
First rule of protest, get locals on your side. Wellington anti vaxx protest threatened school girls, university students, elderly, media, politicians, media, academics, hospitality staff and police with violence. They drove a car into a line of police officers, attempted to kidnap and execute the minister of health, and literally started to wear tinfoil hats to protect themselves from a government Electomagantic radiation weapon that was giving protesters covid like symptoms. New Zealanders who want covid restrictions lifted did not support this protest because it was full of violent crackpots and conspiracy nuts literally wearing tinfoil hats
Which is crazier, the guys wearing tinfoil hats (and lined clothes) for protection or the government that turned EMF devices on its citizens?
Sorry if my sarcasm was not evident enough. There was no electromagnetic radiation machine pointed at protesters. They were actually getting sick with covid. Many are now in Wellington hospital covid positive. The government could not realistically use a machine without it also pointing at parliament or from parliament at the high court. (The Wellington protest site was between those two building and protesters claim the weapon was in either.
Or affecting the police surrounding the protest.
Not evident enough.
But I thought your island was Covid free paradise?
Was, but after getting vaccine rate up we did away with boarder restrictions. We have a wave of covid spreading now. Many of the protesters are sick with covid. In New Zealand only 3% of population over 12 are unvaccinated. Everyone else has had at least one shot or can’t have a shot. Unfortunately that 3% make up 20% of hospital admissions. And the protesters were mostly unvaccinated, spread it to each other and are taking up hospital beds they swore they would never need. Anti vaxxers are the worst thing to happen to a anti mandate protest.
omicron does not send you to the hospital unless you're an extremely unhealthy person. i know countless people, including myself, who got omicron (none of us got the mrna injections) and we're ALL fine. it's literally like getting a cold. it's just an absolute fact that if you're healthy you have nothing to fear from this virus. stop spreading your fear.
If the vaccine worked, why did you all get sick anyway?
If you all get sick anyway, why mandate an ineffective jab?
Perhaps you are just being internet credulous again, Salted. Like the (now literal) tinfoil hat folks.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/its-catching/202203/new-zealand-protestors-in-tinfoil-hats-blame-sickness-radiation-rays
"Brenton Hodgson, who once worked as a calibration technician and was familiar with the device, said that the EMF reading was zero electromagnetic radiation, the number the man was looking at was of magnetic flux from the steel embedded in the concrete"
https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf
You and JimmyFresh ought to read the link provided by Salted Nuts.
Yes, I already noted my sarcasm detector missed a stop. It's OK.
New Zealand sounds like a terrible place to be.
During covid, its a paradise. 9 weeks of lockdown in two years saw New Zealand with in class learning for more New Zealand school and university students than any other country. We had full sports stadiums and huge music festivals. We had the least amount of restrictions as we were able to eliminate the virus for two years. We have the highest vaccine rates in world and are 3rd ranked for deaths per population. (We are actually 2nd ranked is China is number two, but, nobody believes the figures they supply).
2 ranked country for per capita deaths from covid……. New Zealand's Covid response will be studied and hailed as a road map for future pandemics. Maybe not by Americans, but by people that value human life and use it as a metric for success in a pandemic..
No weeks of lockdown should ever be acceptable in an ostensibly free society.
Guess your a person who isn’t prepared to sacrifice a little personal freedom to save lives of fellow citizens. Maybe thats why we (New Zealand) have the second lowest death per capita from Covid. Where is USA ranked?
75% of New Zealanders don’t want covid restrictions lifted yet.
Definitely not a fan of the taste of boots, but if you wanna keep polishing just stay bent over.
Ah for the halcyon pre-civilization days when a plague would sweep through like a free fresh breath of liberty itself.
Turns out the hard problem is that people really like health care. This is the root of quite a lot of government ills globally and frankly not enough is being done to disabuse people of this health care delusion.
Except science has been saying your panic of Karens has been squarely in the wrong, scientifically and morally, for pretty much the whole ride.
Masks useless. Lockdowns made no discernible impact. Vaccine ineffective in months and causing great amounts of illness. Free money tanked the economy. Kids lost years of education.
Thanks, progressives. Good looking out.
Yeah "science" – like what powered the analysis the tinfoil hat guy used to measure how New Zealand has, as you put it, "turned EMF devices on its citizens". Hidden in concrete barricades yeah.
Just saying a word doesn't mean you understand or are applying it, unfortunately.
Let's take useless vaccines. How are per capita odds of death running for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated? 50:1 or so right. That's thousands less American lives lost weekly just considering the (politicized, misinformation driven) partisan gap in vaccination. And still no evidence of any rare vaccine side effect that isn't dramatically more prevalent in covid infection itself, including myocarditis.
You have a hell of a definition of "ineffective".
Not to mention "sciencE".
A vaccine so "safe and effective" for the new Black Plague, that children under 5 weren't cleared to take it from the get-go.
When they test, it's proof vaccines are inherently dangerous. If they don't test enough, it's proof the pandemic is a corporate plot by evil profit seekers.
Inability to answer direct questions about evidence and data noted, per usual.
What are the current rates indeed? UK is ahead of us on the vaccine curve. Surely it's still safe and effective!
https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/01/russia-distraction-uk-gov-revealed-triple-vaccinated-account-9-in-10-covid-deaths/
ooo "the Expose". Sounds like an exciting source for science news likely to blow the conspiracy wide open, for modest ad revenue and donations.
Innumeracy and political spin is probably the main issue here, though I don't have time to debunk fully for you. Ever consider looking at source material directly? It's incredibly easy web searches to look up source material directly.
Here's the latest UK HSA COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report:
High levels of protection (over 90%) are also seen against mortality with all 3 vaccines and
against both the Alpha and Delta variants with relatively limited waning (6, 10, 11). Vaccine
effectiveness against mortality with the Omicron variant has been estimated for those aged 50
years and older by combining the risk of becoming a symptomatic case with the risk of death
among symptomatic cases in vaccinated (all vaccines combined) compared to unvaccinated
individuals (Table 1). At 25+ weeks following the second dose, vaccine effectiveness was
around 60% while at 2 or more weeks following a booster vaccine effectiveness was 95%
against mortality
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1058464/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-9.pdf
And, following on the debunked heels of "vaccine doesn't leave the bicep," we are looking at "mRNA virus won't do reverse tranacription to DNA" being bullshit as well.
And as usual, it was known before authorization.
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/new-study-pfizer-vaccine-integrate-dna-mrna/
Instead of continuing the pattern, debunking these kind of links and having you ignore, are you willing to try debunking skills yourself?
Skepticism is a learnable skill. What would be the best counter-argument here? What do the authors or experts in the field say when asked about this paper, does it match what the political sites say?
I am btw always willing to model the reverse. If I cite something you question, happy to give a skeptical contrary take on the limits or uncertainty associated wtih a given study or piece of evidence.
It will be studied so that people can see how being lucky was falsely claimed as competency. And when the luck ran out, so (mysteriously) did the appearance of competency.
I understand that 80% of the Canadian truckers were vaccinated. The protest was not so much about valid efforts to mitigate the virus as to oppose government overreach [..."mandates, travel restrictions, curfews"].
I suspect the same is true in New Zealand, but of course they are derided as "almost impossible to comprehend that people would stand opposed to efforts to slow [the virus]down,"
Wrong think is increasingly a thing, naturally determined by those who just know better than to tolerate dissent against their righteous rule.
How inconvenient for anyone in NZ who might wish to resist that they had that crazy shooting a few years ago that gave the government all the excuse it needed to further significantly disarm everyone there.
It is pretty clear that government does not fear its people, nor its sheep. They become one and the same.
Then the righteous wolves can much more comfortably discuss what's for dinner.
Yeah we lost a lot of semi-auto centrefire rifles (although probably not more than 1/3rd of those in existence were handed in for destruction).
However on Friday I (legally) bought a semi-auto in .17 WSM and that thing rocks. Out to about 200 meters it just splats everything it hits.
If those protesters had their guns, it could have been so different
We've known for 2 years that the virus can't be slowed. That's like a small child who still believes in Santa Claus.
What's your physical theory how this works? For example, if co-workers stay at home, they can still spread to each other at the same rate obviously – but have you pinned down the mechanism? Viruses are ultimately just encoded information – many have expected it can just translate itself digitally and attach to insecure internet traffic, but nobody has quite documented this. If you can pin this part down it will settle the debate once and for all and (don't want to get ahead of ourselves but) there might a sweet little nobel prize in it for you as a side bonus. Just a thought.
Cute. Now read something from John Hopkins or the British Journal of Medicine.
Read more skeptically.
Here's a Johns Hopkins page on vaccines, what here would you like to discuss? Some other page?
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/report/building-trust-in-vaccination
I was thinking something like their paper on the effects of lockdowns and other mitigation measures, to stay somewhat on subject.
https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf
But if you want to discuss jab efficacy, you're welcome to scroll down where I have provided some of the most recent Pfizer documents - released by court order - for a more complete listing of the 1,291 documented side effects the manufacturer knew of before filing.
Why do you think I said "read more skeptically". That isn't a "Johns Hopkins paper", as literally the first paragraph of your link says. It's a non-published paper by a Cato guy who separately is an economics professor at Johns Hopkins, and (typical of partisan 'science' articles that go viral) doesn't have expertise in epidemiology or relevant subjects here. Appealing to the authority of Cato on science topics, a partisan think tank that recently closed its infamous climate science denial project.
This is a literature review, meaning these economists are interpreting papers in a field they aren't familiar with. The authors of the papers they are saying they think their work has been misunderstood and misinterpreted to serve the anti-lockdown message. There are sites that crowdsource direct feedback from scientists on articles that get weaponized by media like this. Here is such a review of this article:
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claims-johns-hopkins-study-showed-lockdowns-ineffective-reducing-covid-19-mortality-based-working-paper-questionable-methods-fox-news-daily-mail/
Much as I might enjoy it, I'm afraid I don't have the time for an extended discussion of the anti-vaccine talking points of the day. Keep up the fight though, you're sure to tear down the entire edifice of scientific progress with enough viral rage posts and propaganda.
Except that economists and statisticians are uniquely qualified to measure the impacts of lockdown policies from a wide array of research into the subject, but go ahead and cut and run.
chuckle, nice dodge. Let's pretend the link isn't there, and I have cut and run from yet another devastating Cato opinion piece. Take a victory lap and grant yourself a participation badge.
"economists and statisticians are uniquely qualified"
This is called 'appeal to authority' fallacy. Your positions are pretty uniformly in opposition to what economists and statisticians report, but you see these Cato folks as special for some reason. It's a super hard mystery.
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/claims-johns-hopkins-study-showed-lockdowns-ineffective-reducing-covid-19-mortality-based-working-paper-questionable-methods-fox-news-daily-mail/
"Misrepresents source: The working paper’s analysis included some studies that actually concluded lockdowns to be beneficial in reducing COVID-19 mortality. But the paper’s authors instead represented these studies as showing that lockdowns were detrimental.
Misleading: Several reports about the working paper labeled it as a “Johns Hopkins study”. However, only one of the paper’s three authors is affiliated with Johns Hopkins University and the paper wasn’t endorsed by the university. Experts also pointed out certain issues in the paper’s methodology that call the reliability of its conclusions into question."
It is possible to have an honest opinion in opposition to any form of mandate on grounds of principle. It remains instructive that exactly no one is willing to stand on such an opinion, and instead 100% of effort goes behind pushing scientific misinformation to try to invent a more compelling platform for policy debates.
Whose opinion will you take? Pfizer's?
They say the jab is pretty fucking awful. I sure wouldn't put anything like this list of documented side effects into me.
https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf
Gasp. *9%* of vaccine recipients reporting some pain after the shot. Also 138 cases with potentially relevant events.
Another devastating expose of the capitalist conspiracy.
Would you like to compare these risks to the risks associated with covid-19 infection? Didn't guess you would.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/some-covid-patients-need-amputations-to-survive1/
Covid-19 not such the dream experience in reality, it turns out.
I'm not sure I could have read more skeptically, when I find your link was written by a behavioral scientist. At least she recognized that blacks have valid historical reasons to fear government medical intervention.
"Within the context of Covid-19, several drivers of vaccine hesitancy have been identified. Safety is the most pressing driver, including quality control and side effects, in part due to concerns related to the rapid development of vaccines. Vaccine effectiveness is another factor."
All valid drivers of hesitancy.
there are no covid vaccines. wake up.
lol. take the red pill buddy. you're the star in a sci fi movie, for sure.
Check the dictionary before CDC adjusted it last year, these gene therapies are not vaccines.
Lolz. Always the semantic warfare with y'all.
As if anti-vaccine folks actually prefer vaccines that put a weakened or inactive germ directly into our bodies instead of having mRNA provoke cells to produce a protein.
Luddite hysteria.
Out of curiosity, which dictionaries does the CDC run specifically? I'm envisioning that conspiracy gif guy with his strings on the wall showing all of the connections – Pfizer, Moderna, CDC, Merriam Webster, Oxford University... deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole.
It depends. If you're "protesting" for more powerful government, they're OK with that.
Thank you Reason for covering this. Would be nice if more articles were covering this type of anti-liberty action. Reason has been TOO silent over the last 2 years to challenge the elites and their authoritarian policies.
I am a New Zealander and its sad to see this article so wrong on details. Wow, so much to unpack here.
First New Zealanders did not support this protest. It was not peaceful and caused mass disruptions for Wellington. Protestors harassed the public relentlessly. Nobody wearing a mask was allowed in protest site, restricting masked kids from using a playground they occupied. The harassment was so bad, anything near the protest was shut down due to violent threats on public by protesters. 2 girls high schools, the university, all surrounding cafes and restaurants as well as several bus stops and rail stops were all shut down out of safety concerns due to violent protestors. Protesters poured effluent into storm water drains, polluting and shutting down two beaches for swimming. They were trespassed for threatening the local Maori iwi (tribal) elders and blocked street access disrupting ambulance services.
This was not a peaceful protest, despite what the protesters claimed. They displayed anti Semitic and pro confederacy signs, called for violence against politicians, media and academics. Several protestors were arrested attempting to abduct the minister of health under what they called a citizens arrest. Several days before the police cleared the protest, a protesters attempted to drive his car into a line police officers.
Just to put this into perspective, the latest polls show 75% of New Zealanders support coronavirus restrictions in New Zealand. With only 25% wanting them lifted.
The police operation didn’t restrict freedom in wellington, it restored freedom. The freedom for girls to go back to in school classes, uni students to attend in person classes, cafes and shops to reopen without having violent threats at their staff. For all bus stops and train stations to operate. For people to walk to work without violent threats from protesters.
Even those wanting mandates lifted did not support this protest due to violent threats and antivaxx conspiracy theories. Most protesters weren’t focused on ending mandates, they wanted to save children from a government intent on poisoning children.
This protest does not represent a loss of freedom to protest in New Zealand, that is evident from all of the peaceful protests now occurring supporting Ukraine.
To put it into perspective, the anti vaxx protest disrupted Wellington for 23 days and contained between 150 people at its least and 800 people at its most….. at the last climate change protest 170,000 New Zealanders marched throughout the country, peaceful, without any disruptions to the country….
" They displayed anti Semitic and pro confederacy signs," Oops. Full Stop. Bullshit troll post.
Anti mandate New Zealander hated these anti vaxx conspiracy theorists wearing tinfoil hats, shutting down beaches, threatening school girls and elderly. That they would allow anti Semitic poster as well as those calling for execution of politicians, media and academics.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/protesters-turn-to-tinfoil-hats-as-increasing-sickness-blamed-on-government-beaming-radiation-rays/FDCP6NEFJUQWWINL2GXI7OKS6E/
Confederacy as in The Confederacy? As in Kiwis sending a "The South Shall Rise Again!" message?
No actually, what he said is all true.
Lots of Nazi symbols, anti-semitic mesages, abuse of passersby (even school girls), shit flinging, etc.
Lots of "you are trying to kill us all", "baby killers" etc so not anti mandate, just anti
Lots of protestors hurling bricks, pipes at police (from very close range) and very little of the retaliation you may expect
Fires started and spread by protestors.
The footage is all online, have a look instead of dis-believing it because it doesnt match your beliefs
Anyone care to refute?
Whose cock are you trying to suck, jerk? The truth is the mandates are old. If you have the shot, trust it! If someone else doesn't want the shot, what business is it of yours? You cock sucking crybabies say, "get the shot!' You get the shot, but then don't trust it and demand everyone else around you get it as well! Sorry, but your fear is not my obligation. If you are that selfish and scared, just stay home. Your kind doesn't matter any more!!!
The post you are commenting on did not make any judgements on mandates. My advice is if you want mandates lifted, protest peaceful. Don’t give platforms to tinfoil hat wear conspiracy theorists. Don’t violently threaten school girls and elders. Don’t drive cars into police or pollute and ruin local beaches. The anti mandate campaign has been set back by violent protesters. This article did not mention all the locals demanding police remove protesters, how a petition supporting protester had less than half the support of a petition demanding police remove protesters. How every day of protests had protesters arrested for threatening public.
Has it ever occurred to you that there are numbers other than 0 and 1.
Yeah, that's because the climate protesters were on the side of the government.
If the protests were as you said they were, that's too bad. But I'm hesitant to believe any of it given what I saw happen in Canada where the protests were about the most peaceful and positive protests I have ever seen in my life and the mainstream press still presented it as violent and dangerous.
That protest did not represent New Zealanders. These crackpots were literally wear tinfoil hats. Anti mandate New Zealander hated the anti vaxxers because of how much harder it is now and fear of being associated with brick throwing protesters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/protesters-turn-to-tinfoil-hats-as-increasing-sickness-blamed-on-government-beaming-radiation-rays/FDCP6NEFJUQWWINL2GXI7OKS6E/
The climate change protest did not support the government’s climate policy. It was calling for mor action. It was not a pro government rally, it was a protest
In the conspiracy view, greenhouse warming is a hoax designed to increase government power, kicked off in the 19th century by globalist physicists like Fourier. So any anti-pollution activity is pro-government.
Covid of course is also a hoax designed to increase government. The illuminati are a one-trick organization, trying to use their total power to engineer *total* power. (And it would have worked too, if not for those meddling internet researchers.)
Seeing that China hasn't been transparent at all with regards to how COVID has started, the possibility cannot be counted out as it hasn't been disproven.
The full plandemic story is that people like Fauci and Gates were in on the release of the virus to increase their power. It's absurd tinfoil hattery, but we live in times when such claims are embraced by mainstream political parties and people wear tin foil hats non ironically.
In terms of lab leak origin, it has always been a possibility, though it's a bit specious to think "lab leak" could only mean "Fauci conspiracy to push vaccines".
In the real world, researchers continue to document clues on origin. But we all know there is not going to be 100% proof and therefore 100% confidence in conspiracies will continue.
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/more-evidence-that-covid-19-started-in-a-market-not-a-laboratory/21807945?
“Two new papers provide more robust answers than heretofore available to three of the outstanding questions of the covid-19 pandemic: how, when and where sars-cov-2, the virus that caused it, first appeared in human beings. These papers, so-called preprints (meaning they have not yet gone through the formal process of peer review that precedes publication in a journal) were written by related teams of researchers from institutions around the world and posted to Zenodo, a repository for such documents. They conclude that, by November 2019, the virus was present in animals on sale at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan (pictured), whence it jumped to human hosts on two separate occasions a week or so apart.”
So spake Democracy: 97% of Germans supported National Socialist Kristallnacht laws and 3 out of 4 Kiwis want mask laws. Gone are the days you could buy tins of L.S.D. milk for 4s 9d a dozen. The New Zealand in Wyndham's "The Chrysalids" used to be freedomland in the Jefferson Airplane's Crown of Creation.
Grow the fuck up, you twats. Being required to spend 30 seconds to get a free, harmless injection that protects you, your family and your neighbors from a deadly disease that has killed millions and ruined the lives of millions more is neither tyranny nor authoritarianism. If it is, then what word do you have left to describe being lined up and shot in front of an open trench? And on the flip side, how is it not tyranny to be expected to drive at a reasonable speed limit on public roads? But what am I thinking? I guess to the (T)reason crowd, speed limits are the first step to Auschwitz. Not that Auschwitz is such a bad thing if it kills off all the libs, right?
Get over yourself, you worthless little pussy! If you're jabbed, who the cares if you are not?
Get over yourself! If you're jabbed what business is it of yours if the next man is not? Who made you God?
Harmless? Someone has not been paying attention...
From the limited data we had, it was known that the jab had many issues. Even CNN had to admit myocarditis is a thing. But, given the block on information from the manufacturer, and what with the CDC withholding Covid data to curate the talking points, it was an uphill trial.
Thanks to the courts, we get to know more. All 1,291 different types of adverse reactions Pfizer observed and duly reported in their previously sealed application to push the poke. Many of them lethal, corroborated by an observed 40% increase in premature mortality starting 2021 - post-Covid, but right on time for the jab mandates.
Take a look at what Pfizer saw in their trial group, raw is linked at the bottom.
https://lorphicweb.com/pfizer-covid-vaccine-has-1291-side-effects-reveals-official-documents/
If it is, then what word do you have left to describe being lined up and shot in front of an open trench?
Terrorism, murder, holocaust, execution, genocide...
Let's say a government rounded up all the Japanese and put them in internment camps or indians and put them on reservations, what would you call that? Just how democracy is supposed to work?
LOL, this article must have hit reddit and the redditards are angry.
except that the mrna injects protect no one. are you really that ignorant? are you unaware that these drugs don't stop transmission or contraction of the virus? are you living under a rock?
The citizens of New Zealand need to arm themselves with whatever they can get their hands on and crack some skulls of their own. They then need to get their hands on that wench of a dictator and put her in her place, which is on the run out of New Zealand never to return.
24% of New Zealanders don’t think the government covid restrictions go far enough. 51% support the governments mandates and 25% want restrictions lifted. Sounds like the government has made a truly Democratic decision to me. And no one supported the tinfoil hat wearing antivaxx protesters and their violent actions.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/protesters-turn-to-tinfoil-hats-as-increasing-sickness-blamed-on-government-beaming-radiation-rays/FDCP6NEFJUQWWINL2GXI7OKS6E/
whatever they can get their hands on – maybe a flagpole
just brainstorming
“Revolt is the right of the people.” - John Locke
TooSilly, I sincerely hope you are current on your boosters.
And don't look at Pfizer and Moderna stocks. Really, all's well.
Can I just say "Fuck ACT and David Seymour"?
ACT, the libertarian-leaning party that for the first couple of decades of its existence had a No-Cannabis reform policy, now they just have No Cannabis policy, at all. During the last election there was a referendum about legalizing cannabis, ACT and Seymour had absolutely nothing to say about it, not a single fucking comment.
So join with me and say "Fuck you assholes"
Nope fuck you. If Aunty Jacinda had a single gram of courage she would have said "vote for this" and her coke nosed boyfriend would have spoken up in favour of it too.
She's only ever in favour of things that 50.0001%+ of the population are in favour of. A total moral coward.
Children being murdered in Ukraine right now by a totalitarian dictatorship, but fucking Reason as usual distracts a distractible fake libertarian Republican right-wing audience with shit about "the slide toward authoritarianism in another country." As if the U.S. is not sliding down into that hellhole at this moment.
The increasing level of authoritarianism in supposedly free western democracies is a not a distraction. It is true Putin is more to blame than the west and US, but the west and US deserve some of the blame. The west and US provoked a reaction, but Putin actually reacted with violence.
"Canada's Freedom Convoy"! That sounds so heroic! Make Canada Great Again!
We need to remind these politicians that they are our employees by firing them all.
It seems odd that all these countries who claim to be democracies are the worst examples of democracy.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand have all become authoritarian dictatorships. Canada's little toddler tyrant, Justin Castreau is now Canada's first dictator, whose thug cops trample disabled people under horse's hooves. The little toddler tyrants in Australia such as Dan Andrews have exposed themselves as the little wannbe tyrants they've always wanted to be. Australia is now a prison camp, with actual gulags and thug cops beating elderly for not wearing a mask.
New Zealand is no different. A sham democracy if ever there was one. You know what though? After reading some of the comments from the Kiwis, you deserve ever bit of your democracy good and hard and if you truly believe all these mandates and police state style government is going to fade into the distance after ward, you're only dreaming. Those in power at this time will never give it up.
Trudeau plans to remain in power even if he has to eliminate any who dare oppose him. Those in power in Australia plan to remain so. There will be no opposition. New Zealand will remain a police state, an island gulag run by little dictators.
None of the afore mentioned countries will ever see freedom and liberty again in their lifetimes.
When Australia started their concentration camps, I asked why would we care if China conquered them? Obviously a little tongue in cheek, but only a little.
why would we care if China conquered them?
You misspelled 'annexed'.
Like a renegade province.
historically, Australia has always been part of China...
Historically, China has always been Navajo territory. 😀
Would anyone notice?