No, We Shouldn't Attack Russia and Start World War III Over Ukraine
While it's tempting to defend the besieged nation from Putin's aggression, nuclear annihilation would be bad.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's unjustified war of aggression against Ukraine has provoked appropriate scorn from much of the West, with U.S. and European powers levying punitive sanctions against the Russian invaders. Many Americans are inspired by the bravery of the Ukrainian people defending their homeland—and the unusual honor of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy—and wish that we could do even more.
Indeed, NBC News correspondent Richard Engel, observing Russian forces marching on Kyiv, contemplated whether the U.S. should directly attack the Russian convoy.
Perhaps the biggest risk-calculation/moral dilemma of the war so far. A massive Russian convoy is abt 30 miles from Kyiv. The US/NATO could likely destroy it. But that would be direct involvement against Russia and risk, everything. Does the West watch in silence as it rolls?
— Richard Engel (@RichardEngel) February 28, 2022
It should go without saying, but this is an extremely bad idea. The risk is far too great.
First off, the U.S. cannot attack Russia because Congress has yet to declare war on the country. And make no mistake, a direct attack on Russian forces by either the U.S. or NATO would be an act of war. This would bring two of the world's superpowers into direct conflict for the first time since World War II. The risk of a nuclear attack, on either side, would increase dramatically. Indeed, favorable conditions for an all-out nuclear war would, for the first time in world history, finally be achieved.
The plight of the Ukrainians is tragic, but as much as we might like to aid them militarily, the U.S. cannot undertake a course of action with a significant likelihood of causing nuclear annihilation. While it would be gratifying to punish Putin for trying to reclaim the Soviet empire, a bad actor's malicious behavior is no excuse for recklessness on the part of the U.S. Despite Engel's suggestion that the situation presents a "moral dilemma," there is no dilemma here to speak of: War between nuclear powers is not an option.
The same goes for calls to establish a "no-fly zone" over Ukraine. A no-fly zone is not a magic protective barrier—the U.S. would have to enforce it by shooting down Russian airplanes. Russia's air force is quite powerful, so this would be no easy feat. But in any case, it would still amount to war with Russia. The U.S. must therefore reject Zelenskyy's heartfelt request for a no-fly zone. The Biden administration has thus far wisely indicated that such a move is off the table.
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I'm hearing talk from some quarters that taking on the Russians would be a cakewalk. Now where have we heard that shit before, and how did it turn out for us?
Yes, the vaulted war machine supported by an economy smaller than Italy and getting weaker and more ineffective before your eyes.
That is the sort of thinking that landed Putin into the mess he currently finds himself in. I suggest we NOT imitate him.
Which has significantly more nukes than us, thanks to the blundering of Obama and the bribery of Hillary.
Their treason hasn’t helped.
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You have a very loose definition of treason. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your broad definition never applies to conservatives, in your world.
For example, Ashli Babbitt got what she deserved by any reasonable standard. But I'll bet you don't agree.
Ashli Babbitt got shot because an under-trained cop inadvertently discharged a firearm he was recklessly brandishing.
Ashli Babbitt got shot because she was part of a mob attacking police and tried to breach a barrier. She got exactly what she deserved.
^the real enemy
At least Americans are finally awakening to Trump's treason of weakening the US economy by adding 10 trillion in debt, weakening the US economy by propping up the stock market with very low interest + deficit spending + tax cuts for the rich, weakening US alliances & NATO, horrible trade deals with China, secret bank accounts & businesses in China, and lavishly sucking up to and praising dictators like Xi, Putin, and Kim Jung Un.
They have 6000 we have 5000, or something similar to that. Either is enough to destroy the world several times over so the disparity is irrelevant.
You are clearly unfamiliar with basic history. Russia has had more nukes than the USA since the 1970s. It had nothing to do with Obama or Hillary.
When you signing up with Azov, strazele?
Tom Lehrer wrote a song titled MLF Lullaby, about a MultiLateral Force: "One of the fingers on the button will be German. MLF will scare Brejnev..."
Give Ukraine better weapons like drones and start laying the stage for the most lethal insurgency ever. Develop and perfect weapon systems for maximum insurgency like small bombs and roadside bombs. Telegraph to Putin that even should he occupy Ukraine the war will continue and he will face an insurgency the likes of which "the world has never seen".
The Europeans are welcome to do that = give weapons to Ukraine. American does not have to, nor should we. America can sell weapons to our NATO allies.
Why does America sell to our allies but give same to our enemies (see Afghanistan)
I don't have a problem with us selling a sovereign nation weapons, especially when they are being invaded. Putin is Stalin reincarnated and everyone should stand up to that psychopath.
But we should not, under any circumstances, send troops or commit to a no-fly zone. It isn't our fight, but we should arm the people whose fight it is.
We now see the errors of even smart people like Dysan, fanning superstitious fears of defensive tactical nukes. Now that it is too late, Ukraine citizens wish they had the discriminating nuclear weapons explained by Sam Cohen, and a Second Amendment protecting their possession of same from their former nazi, quisling, Vichy and defeatist neighbors panhandling for NATO.
Scale of 1 to 10, how well do you think WW3 will distract from Biden's other clusterfucks?
On a side note, love how the progshits are absolutely mad for blood now. Maybe if we nuke Putin it will finally prove Russian collusion?
It's time we let a few nukes fly and remove the taboo on their use. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fujikamasan have all recovered just fine.
Should've nuked Russia 60 years ago, first chance we had. And a bunch of muslim nations also. We could do with a few billion fewer troublemakers in the world.
What the hell is wrong with you?
Perhaps a few missile strikes on that convoy
could give the Ukes a better edge.
OK, Ukraine is not worth risking nuclear war over.
The question becomes if Putin, or any other nuclear armed country puts the nuclear gun to the liberal world's head, is there any demand they can make that is worth saying "No" to? How much power are you willing to give to bad actors because nuclear war?
We at least can put to bed the idea that a Russian juggernaut of tanks could just roll over Europe. Tanks are damn near obsolete.
But small bombs are the leading edge as you say above.
I hope we dont get to the point where we do our part to support a new kind of insurgency.
Those tanks, managed by Russians, are not being used to their full advantage and are ineffectively manned by reluctant conscripts .
Our tanks, managed by the best race baiters in the universe and manned with a diverse cadre of people who look like America are different.
Our JT-4 and Javelins prove that a fact.
Attacking another nuclear country, or a country that a nuclear power has a treaty staying they will defend it. Otherwise, no, nuclear war is far too devastating for the entire world to play the normal political games with. There has to be bright unambiguous lines on what will get two nuclear powers to go to war with each other, otherwise we're gambling with everyone's lives.
Nuclear war was fought in August 1945. Most in the target cities survived, all outside those places survived, ergo everybody didn't die.
Two bombs and only one country owning any more is not the same as the nuclear arsenals currently owned by both Russia and the US. The bombs are bigger now, there is quite literally exponentially more of them around, and they no longer require a plane to fly them over their target.
The devastation possibility has sky rocketed.
nuclear war is far too devastating
So far that isn't true.
The Nuclear War we had did what it intended, was no more devastating than the other ordinary 1000 plane raids, but with no casualties to our side, and the aggressors managed just fine with the aftermath in their two cities.
We might want to revisit the feigned horror at using them.
We have been, imo, extremely lucky on the nuclear weapons front.
They were used in warfare, on people, and appropriately horrified all. Quite fortunate that our learning experience happened when nukes were in their infancy, least powerful, and fewest in number.
Had they not been used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they almost certainly would've seen use in a later conflict. Perhaps by more than one belligerent.
Would've been far worse.
So commies like you implicitly support Russia using nukes and doing nothing about it.
.I see..
Does Vlad pay you to Troll or do you do it in your spare time for free?
No, it was a question directed at the assumptions of what Soave is arguing in the article.
"liberal world"
LOL
The last 2+ years of covid totalitarianism belie your premise.
Russia's whole game is intimidation. Russia does not have the resources to pull this off. They're just hoping we back off.
Gee los, you sound like an expert on this stuff. You should be on the front lines leading the charge.
Let us know how it goes.
Why fight like a cavemen? Use drones.
"Arrows cost money. Use up the Irish. Their dead cost nothing." - Edward Longshanks.
….. weapon systems for maximum insurgency like small bombs and roadside bombs
Change in tactics already?
Craven, bloodthirsty inhumane monster.
I really hope reality catches up to you good and hard.
Many Americans are inspired by the bravery of the Ukrainian people defending their homeland—and the unusual honor of President Volodymyr Zelensky—and wish that we could do even more…
Which then links to a shitty article from The Atlantic.
The unmistakable steady drone of bullshit in the American media regarding what’s going on in the Ukraine is becoming overpowering. A few years ago I began reading this commentary in the first place to try to get a better angle on what’s happening in the US and world events.
Please, can anyone suggest a source of news and analysis to monitor what’s currently occurring with Russia and the Ukraine? One that isn’t pure garbage?
"Please, can anyone suggest a source of news and analysis to monitor what’s currently occurring with Russia and the Ukraine? One that isn’t pure garbage?"
Make sure you're up on the background information.
I'm seeing the news covering Zelensky's application to join the EU yesterday as if this was somehow new. That's terrible coverage.
Not only did the Ukraine start the process of seeking admission to the EU years ago, every individual legislature in the EU ratified the association agreement. Almost all of them had done so by 2015. The Netherlands was the last to ratify the agreement, and that was in 2017. You can see it all for yourself here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union%E2%80%93Ukraine_Association_Agreement#Ratification
Zelensky isn't asking to join the EU. He's asking for them to accelerate the years long process. Making it seem like he's just initiating the process now gives a false picture of what this conflict is about. Putin is invading the Ukraine because the Ukrainian people turned their backs on Putin and threw their Putin puppet out of power--because they wanted to join the EU and he tried to stop them.
Some of the American news I've seen has painted it almost perfectly backwards. Zelensky isn't trying to join the EU in 2022 because Putin invaded. Putin invaded because the Ukrainians started the formal process of joining the EU back in 2014. That's why Putin annexed the Crimea. That's why Putin fomented rebellion in the two eastern provinces. That's why Putin is invading the Ukraine today. In short, there is no news source that can be relied on to the extent that we need to stop using our critical thinking bone.
Read about the origins of the conflict from a diverse array of sources, and get the sequence of events right. If the narrative doesn't account for the sequence of events and reasonable explanations for them, it should be disregarded--regardless of the news source.
And make sure you don't confuse getting your news from diverse sources with bothsideism. Sometimes, both sides are not worthy of equal consideration. Taking the Nazis point of view isn't appropriate when telling the story of the holocaust, and I've come to the conclusion that Putin's narrative regarding the Ukraine isn't worthy of equal consideration. Putin isn't invading the Ukraine because the U.S. and its allies want to expand NATO into the Ukraine. Putin is invading Ukraine because the Ukrainian people want to join the EU and NATO.
Putin did not annex Crimea. The people of Crimea voted overwhelmingly by 95% to join the Russian federation.
Putin annexed Crimea in March of 2014--that vote was taken while the Crimea was under Russian occupation. 100% of Iraqi people voted for Saddam Hussein under a heavy turnout, too. I guess he was the most popular man in Iraq!
Either that or they were scared to death to vote no, and there was a tremendous amount of ballot box stuffing. I couldn't get 95% of my office mates to agree on where to go for lunch. If 95% of the people of West Virginia and Wyoming voted for Trump, would you believe it? Could he possibly have been more popular in either state?
Meanwhile there's this:
"Crimea will vote on Sunday in a ballot referendum that leaders of the regional Parliament expect will ratify their decision to break away from Ukraine and become part of Russia. The referendum will offer two choices, neither one of them “no”:
1. Are you in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation?
2. Are you in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine?
Voters will have to mark one option affirmatively, but they cannot vote for the status quo.
A return to the 1992 Constitution — adopted after the Soviet collapse but quickly thrown out by the post-Soviet Ukraine — would effectively provide for Crimea’s independence, while remaining part of Ukraine. The Crimean government would have broad powers to chart its own course, including its relations with other nations such as Russia.
----The New York Times, March 14, 2014
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/europe/crimea-vote-does-not-offer-choice-of-status-quo.html
In short, remaining in the Ukraine wasn't one of the choices on the ballot. Do you really want to stand behind that vote as the authentic voice of the people of the Crimea on the decision of whether to remain a part of the Ukraine?
And the biggest point of all is this--Putin annexed the Crimea because the people of Ukraine ousted his puppet to join the EU--regardless of whether the people of the Crimea wanted to be part of Russia.. Putin annexed the Ukraine to protect his Black Sea bases from being transferred to the EU and/or NATO. And whether the people of the Crimea wanted to be Russian is beside the point.
Regardless of what we disagree on, we should all agree that we don't want to be purveyors of propaganda for the Kremlin.
For all I know, the people of the Crimea may have voted to become part of Russia if given the free choice to do so.
But that vote was a propaganda exercise to give Putin a justification for annexing the Crimea subsequent to his invasion.
We could have an honest, rational debate about whether South Carolina should be allowed to secede from the Union. Both sides of that argument should probably be given serious consideration. Whether we should recognize a vote for South Carolina to become part of Mexico--after Mexico invades South Carolina--is another question entirely, and I don't think we should give the arguments for and against recognizing that election equal weight.
Thanks, it’s appreciated
NeokeNN is not a reliable source on this topic.
Don't drag the Lost Cause of the Confederacy into this. Secession, when not voted on by ALL citizens of the country, is unjustified.
OK, you are definitely paid Russian disinformation. Russia invaded Crimea. The Little Green Men not having Russian patches on their uniforms didn't fool anyone with a functioning brain. Same with the war in the Donbass that has been going for 8 years.
Din't piss on us and tell us it's raining. Russia has been attacking Ukraine nonstop for 8 years.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498524264198193153
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498448013202804737
Glory to Ukraine!!! Never stop resisting this evil!!!
So you had no problem when Russians living in the Donbass region, who had been living there for hundreds of years, being murdered en masse by Ukrainian neo-nazi death squads. You have no problem with them being shelled and bombed. You had no problem with women being raped and murdered.
JohnZ, where are you getting this. You understand I hope that the president of Ukraine was elected with 73% of the vote and he's 100% Jewish with a grandfather who fought in the Russian army as an infantryman in WWII and he has other relatives who perished in the Holocaust.
73% vote. Think about it.
This was reported a few year back in the Veterans Today website. No other news organization would touch it.
Of course not, he’s a terrible person.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498585207120801794
https://twitter.com/i/status/1498629222906142725
When people ask you if we should just stand by and do nothing, try to see it from Putin's perspective.
Last I checked, the Russians still don't control a single major Ukrainian city. Last I checked, the Russians still don't have air superiority over Ukraine. Putin's military has been humiliated by the Ukrainians--using American anti-missile systems and American anti-tank weapons. More of that ammunition is arriving in Ukraine every day.
Putin doesn't think America is just doing nothing to help the Ukrainians.
Putin watched the ruble fall by 30%, the Russian stock market fail to open for fear of what it will show, runs on Russian banks, and the central bank raise interest rates to 20% so the banking system doesn't collapse completely. The world's oil companies are selling their investments in Russian oil short.
As he was watching that happen, whatever else he was thinking, the one thing Putin wasn't thinking was, "Why are the Americans just doing nothing".
Destroying the Russian economy and supplying the Ukrainians with the weapons they've used to successfully stymie Russian aggression so far is not doing nothing. Meanwhile, no matter what happens, Putin will fail. Even if he destroys the Ukrainian government, they will never accept his rule. No matter how this goes, Putin will be defeated in the Ukraine, and a large part of that failure will be the a result of our efforts in supplying weapons to the Ukrainians and hamstring his economy.
Even if we don't initiate a no-fly zone or put troops on the ground in Ukraine, what we are doing presently is not doing nothing.
Theyre getting their asses beat badly by CTIZENS in part.
So thus proves theur military is powerless except to carry out terrorist acts.
Putin will reduce the place to rubble like the Russians did in Grozny.
"The initial assault resulted in considerable Russian casualties and demoralization in the Russian forces. It took another two months of heavy fighting, and a change in tactics, before the Russian Army was able to capture Grozny. The battle caused enormous destruction and casualties amongst the civilian population and saw the heaviest bombing campaign in Europe since the end of World War II.
----Battle of Grozny (1994–1995)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1994%E2%80%931995)
Sound familiar?
Putin can't win, but Putin can't afford to lose.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/02/really-going-ukraine-alternative-scenario/
Agreed, supplying Javelins and Stingers is far from a hands-off tactic, those weapon systems have allowed for a very successful low-intensity conflict type defense so far. I don't see US boots on the ground on a large scale, but would be surprised if there are not 'observers' there already. I suspect the no-fly zone is something that DC, biden will commit to if the EU and NATO push for it -I am not sure if biden will call it 1st. Hard saying with him, he's a dim bulb HS bully with minimal foreign policy experience minus self-aggrandizing and grifting.
It is not in the best interests of the United States to enforce a no-fly zone over Ukraine. If our NATO allies wish to do so, we should let them do it without us. We don't want to be in this conflict, and we don't want to be drawn into this conflict. And it isn't just about the provocation of Americans shooting down Russian planes (and being tempted to take out a 40 mile column of Russian armor). It's also the question of what happens when an American plane is shot down and killed or captured by the Russians. The Second Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a major prelude to war, and it probably never even happened.
Yes, but we are being drawn into this conflict. And that's no accident either: Europe took risks with their foreign policy because they know Americans are stupid enough to bail them out, time and again.
Our "NATO allies" can't take a piss without American help. They are useless. That's why this invasion happened in the first place.
Actually, they're the ones that are pushing this forward. Biden is more or less being dragged along. Biden has done a good job of not getting us directly involved yet. I doubt Obama or Bush Jr. would have done as well in that regard. I hope Biden maintains, and I have no faith in him to do the smart thing whatsoever. We could have been drawn into Rwanda, but Clinton resisted the temptation. It's happened before that we've restrained ourselves. I'm hopeful that we'll resist this urge, too.
Regardless, the way to resist the temptation to get involved directly is to resist the urge to enact a no-fly zone over Ukraine. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Europeans decide to enact one without us--like they did in Libya. The reason Obama went along with Libya was because the British and the French were going in with the air force, and the Qataris were going in on the ground--with us or without us. Obama didn't want to look like he wasn't the one in charge, so we offered help with our advanced air traffic control and targeting.
That would be the road in, and we don't want to take it.
I agree 100%.
Biden has no desire to get dragged into a foreign war. He has made that point repeatedly throughout his political career. His disagreement with Obama about staying in Afghanistan after bin Laden got what he deserved is well documented.
Guaranteed he will resist US military involvement in Ukraine unless Putin hits a NATO nation, which will take it out of his hands.
Unlike the rest of the Nixon-subsidized, media-entrenched looter Kleptocracy, right?
Yes, the President, who spent years on the Foreign Affairs Committee as a Senator, has "minimal foreign policy experience". Idiot.
I get that you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that our response has been brilliant, effective, and required leadership to pull together. But if you want to distract from Biden's excellence in this situation, don't use lies and easily-disproved statements.
Just reference Afghanistan. That was enough of a clusterfuck to taint anyone. It wasn't as much of a failure as galvinizing the world has been a success, but it definitely takes the bloom off the rose of Biden's foreign policy.
So, if we let this play out, Russia will be saddled with a major headache in its newly acquired province, likely leading to years of terrorism, internal dissent, and possibly the breakup of the Russian Federation. Europe will find itself between a rock and a hard place, dependent on Russian energy while fearing Russian aggression. Meaning, Europeans will finally have to make a decision: build up a military and return to a reasonable energy policy, or become a Russian puppet state. All those developments are short-circuited the more the US intervenes.
You're delusional if you think that what "we" are doing is much more than virtue signaling. Europe is dependent on Russian energy. There is little Europe can do against Russia right now, that's why Putin took this step in the first place.
What Europe is trying to do is drag the US into this militarily. That's what Europe is always doing. And the US keeps falling for it, to its own and the world's detriment. Europe needs to fight its own wars and pay the price.
"You're delusional if you think that what "we" are doing is much more than virtue signaling."
The Russian central bank raising its interest rate to 20% is not just virtue signaling. If that happened in the United State right now, there would be riots in the street. Millions of people would lose their homes and their jobs.
The ruble losing 30% of its value is not just virtue signaling.
The anti-tank and anti-missile systems that have stymied Putin's armor are not just virtue signaling.
We are not just virtue signaling. This is having a serious and debilitating impact on the Russian economy and Putin's ability to fight this war.
Meanwhile, Germany is building two liquefied natural gas terminals--with the blessing of the Greens that are an important part of the governing coalition. Meanwhile, Germany is overcoming its guilt ridden reluctance to send German military hardware anywhere--and is sending it directly to the Ukrainians. Those are serious changes in policy that are being blessed by the fucking Greens of all people.
Germany can't turn on a dime, and they shouldn't inflict policies that the German people don't want--at least not overnight. But I think it's clear that the Germans are getting serious about weaning themselves off of energy dependence on Russia.
"Mr. Habeck [leader of Germany's Green Party] had agreed to the LNG terminals before Mr. Scholz [Chancellor] announced it. That required political courage for the leader of a party whose name reveals its environmentalist bent. It would have been easier to insist only on some pablum about accelerating renewables, a la the U.S. climate left.
"Since Mr. Scholz’s speech, Mr. Habeck and his Green colleagues have gone further. Mr. Habeck said Sunday there are “no taboos” in the effort to wean Germany off Russia. That includes extending coal-fired power past the desired 2030 cutoff, and perhaps extending the lives of Germany’s three remaining nuclear power plants, which are due to shut down this year.
"Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock, a Green former co-leader, put it starkly Sunday when asked if her party really would accept extended use of coal: “Yes, that is the price we’ll pay.” She went on to describe Mr. Putin’s violence toward Ukraine to explain this policy change."
----WSJ, March 1, 2022
https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-climate-left-gets-serious-green-party-russia-ukraine-olaf-scholz-11646081189?
Use the Wayback Machine if you need to.
I wish the Biden administration were as reasonable as what we're seeing from the Green Party in Germany's governing coalition right now. Why hasn't the Biden administration announced an end to his restrictions on drilling for natural gas on public lands? We should be flooding Europe with cheap natural gas right now.
"Virtue signaling" is determined by whether we are willing to pay a price for it or not, and we aren't.
And the long term effects of the limited measures the West has taken may well be a shift away from SWIFT and a shift away from dollars as the reserve currency. This may backfire, badly.
Those are not serious shifts at all. Whether LNG or pipeline, the energy strategy is the same. And Germans have been major arms dealers for decades.
What the German people want is irrelevant; they are just sheep going along with what their government tells them to.
Yeah, so the Germans are going to buy gas from some place, subject to higher transportation costs, and Russia will sell its gas to China. Russia will likely prefer that outcome anyway, since China likes it when Russia sticks it to the West.
What a ridiculous definirion of "virtue signalling".
You're flailing. Face it, what we are doing is having a huge impact and Ukraine holds the moral high ground. Russia and Putin are just as awful as they have always been, it's just that the American Right is largely unwilling to try to defend him any more.
It's amazing how many little dick wavers are crying out for the U.S. to get involved, especially when they have no skin in the game.
Besides, Washington has no right to complain. Not after the invasion of Grenada, the invasion of Panama, The carpet bombing in Serbia, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the destruction of Syria and Libya, the aiding and arming of one of the worst human rights violators, Saudi Arabia and its genocidal war on Yemen. Don't forget as Hillary gloated, "We came ,We saw, he died." The war in Viet Nam has left that nation devastated and will last for decades. Washington's right to create proxy wars in Latin America. El Salvador where more than 85,000 people were killed as the result of Washington's interventionism. Ronnie Raygun's so called 'Freedom fighters" who murdered thousands of innocent people including children.
How about Chile in 1972 when CIA led right wing death squads murdered Allende.
Kent State, Jackson State, Southern Louisiana
The chaining and gagging of Bobby Seale
Someone tell these Maryland governors to be for real.
No, Washington has no right to complain. No one in Washington should be saying anything at all. They should shut their pie holes.
The hypocrisy of the idiots in Washington is stunning to say the least.
Interesting how this site is flooded with Trolls like you implicitly supporting Russian aggression!
Does Vlad pay you 5 rouble per Troll post or do you just Troll for fun?
Your comnent starting by attacking anyone that doesnt agree with you is Trolling 101.
You bet. I'm a Russky bot.
Now reread what I just wrote and ponder it for a tiny bit.
Or maybe just like so many Americans, their own hypocrisy is so difficult for them to admit to.
Everything I wrote is factual. None of it made up.
America's history of interventionism is well documented.
To be fair, we don't think you're a bot. We think you are an amoral asshole who spreads Russian disinformation for profit.
And as someone who deasn't luve here, you can't be expected to know that Americans are highly aware of our oast failings as a mation. We teach them in our schools. Tuskegee, slavery, the Vietnam war, Japanese internment, and the list goes on. One of the strengths of America is we don't hide from our past and we don't pretend we are without flaws or failures.
It is one of the main things that makes us strong as a nation. We aren't afraid to face our demons, so we aren't controlled by them.
Saying “it is not our business” isn’t “supporting Russian aggression”.
I’m all for you donating money and volunteering in the Ukraine. I strongly oppose the the US government uses the resources out extracts from Americans to get involved in foreign conflicts.
If you’re not willing to lay down your own life and spend a lot of your own money for Ukraine, don’t pretend that you actually care.
John Z, secular "original sin" should not leave us powerless to oppose murderous tyranny when it stares us in the face. There are not many innocents when you consider human history - and yes, even American Indian tribes were not living in peace when we arrived - and we can't allow that fact to render us silent. Remember that not all Americans favored invading Iraq - for example - and our government represents us all.
I agree with Ken on our proper role, though only because nuclear weapons makes any other action impossible. There will likely be a huge wave of sympathy and horror coming - some of it already here - and the emotions that it will and is engendering are overpowering, but unfortunately we cannot act as we might wish without seriously endangering the future for all.
Our proper role is not involve ourselves in other nations.
Period.
If Washington had not involved itself in Ukraine , this may very well have not happened.
people need to stop making excuses and apologies for American interventionism.
This has been going on for the past 120+ years and absolutely no good has ever come of it. Every single example has been met with failure upon failure and yet Washington continues to act as the world's policeman.
Stop defending this.
JohnZ, we live in a world growing smaller all the time. Of course we should involve ourselves in international affairs because we can't hide, if we wanted to.
As to the good of it, we learn slowly maybe but we learn. Humans are smart fuckers who survive - before civilization we had spread to virtually every climate and conditions on earth, from deserts to the tundra. If you haven't noticed, since WWII, there have been no others and no real threat of one until maybe now. That is progress. Your odds of being killed by another human are lower than at any time in our collective history and many - the young especially - think of them selves not as racial, tribe, or nation members - that was standard not long ago - but as world citizens eager to experience and cooperate with others. Your position is turtle speak and doomed to failure.
Getting involved in international affairs is one thing.
Foreign military interventionism is quite another and Washington just can't seem to help itself when it comes to nation building and regime change. After all it's been doing just that for over 120 years and has no plans to stop now.
How easy it is to forget or make excuses for the disasters America created around the world pretending to be the world's policeman....another myth.
How many innocent people have to die to support American hegemony around the world?
Remember the words of Pres. Washington , when he advised us to avoid foreign entanglements. Instead America has done just the opposite.
Ron Paul is correct. We need to stop being the world's policeman, end interventionist foreign policies and leave the rest of the world alone.
People either ignore or seem to forget it was American foreign policy to get involved in Ukraine in the first place.
In fact people seem to forget America's interventionist foreign policies that have caused a lot more damage and destroyed a lot more lives than Putin's. Not that I defend his decision, which I believe to be disastrous for both sides.
But Americans need to man up and admit that our own country's foreign policies have created much worse.
Yeah, Johnz, we'll got to confession after this is all over, but in the meantime, we have to deal with it.
"Involved in Ukraine"? What are you talking about? You mean having diplomatic relationships and sending military assistance to Ukraine? That's not a valid reason to invade a sovereign nation.
And despite what Putin seems to believe, Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
JohnZ, the clear aggressor and seeker of hegemony here is Russia, not the US and the US in cooperation of with many of the world's democracies - not as the "world's policeman" - is trying to deal with the problem without military intervention.
Washington died over 200 years ago and for the better, the world has changed. One of the things both good and bad is that we can't ignore problems and avoid them.
Translation of "our government represents us all": the looter Kleptocracy robs, murders and imprisons us all. (Imagine if we did not have a Bill of Rights)
Who the fuck is this “us”?
If you want to put your money and life on the line fighting against Russia, be my guest.
If not, you’re just virtue signaling.
Called the US NOYB, and unless you live somewhere else, you and I are responsible for it's actions as citizens in a democracy. Probably true no matter where you live unless it's Russia.
Ken real question for your opinion what happens when you leave a desperate man with nothing, do you think he'll just head back to Russia or escalate to scorched earth?, shouldn't there be a line to punish but not leave them in the desperate stage being a nuclear power? This is purely theorizing on best world outcome.
"not leave them in the desperate stage being a nuclear power"
Theyre ALREADY THERE.
You dont have the IQ to take Ken on. Or a Ken Doll for that matter, asking stupid questions like that.
Calm down, sqrlsy2
Putin is spolied and entitled. He's not in a bunker. We haven't invaded Russia. Putin is a bitch. There's no desperation. Completely manufactured bs.
MT-Man, if only we could, but where is that exit ramp? Putin can't afford to lose face or he's a probably a dead man or at least exposed as a puny one, and he doesn't show signs of ever being able to accept that.
Robby's predecessor at Reason assured me (we had a letters section in the 1980s) that killing people by rearranging electrons was Marquis de Queensbury OK, but rearrangement of particles at the nucleus was baaad. When the Hun used poison gas on Allied trenches, Americans retaliated in kind off the record. Politicians said gas was baaad. Draft boards couldn't convince youths that jail was worse than being sprayed like a roach. Nuclear weapons pose a danger to politicians and their bodyguards, so guess what politicians call them...
Russia's air force is quite powerful,
This statement would be more meaningful if the hyperlink weren't to the young adult fantasy entertainment website Vox.
YA fantasy! LOL! Point for Marshal!
You can’t have it both ways. Either Ukraine is our government’s responsibility or it is not. If it is, you need to be prepared to fight a war over it. If not, stop virtue signaling and pretending.
They aren't our responsibility, Neville Chamberlin. But they are facing down an unprovoked attack by an autocrat who openly admires the Soviet Union. Appeasement and isolation in the face of evil is not what decent people (and countries) do.
We should always support the nations that are standing up for our global values. That doesn't mean fight for them or engage in any neocon nation building bullshit. But we should absolutely sell weapons and lead the world in levying sanctions against an autocratic psychopath like Putin and, through him, Russia.
Hopefully the large anti-war demonstrations in Russia grow into anti-Putin demonstrations and his fraudulent government is thrown out.
Alexi Nevalny for President (of Russia)!
It boggles the mind when it comes to these white devils! It turns out they are more dangerous than your George Floyd's and Eric Garner's.
"...nuclear annihilation would be bad."
Pretty much goes without saying.
Wow, a non-aggressive but compassionate comment from Sevo. Amazing! I would up vote if I could but I can't so I won't.
No, We Shouldn't Attack Russia and Start World War III Over Ukraine
While it's tempting to defend the besieged nation from Putin's aggression, nuclear annihilation would be bad.
While I don't think we should commit U.S. Troops to Ukraine (along with everyone else I've heard,) there is a ton of misconceptions going on here:
One, Robby, it would be World War V. World War III was The Cold War and World War IV was the War On Terror. Please try to keep up.
Two, The Ukrainians as of now have killed over 1000 Russian troops for each day of the war. In less than two months at that rate, the number of dead Putineers will equal the number of U.S. dead in the War in Southeast Asia.
If the object of war, to quote General Patton, is to make the other dumb bastard die for his country, then it looks like Ukraine is going great guns without U.S. Troops.
See the Wiki page for continuous updates:
Russo-Ukrainian War--Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War
Finally, Robby and a whole bunch of other people need to read "Who Are The Heirs of Patrick Henry" by Robert A. Heinlein and "Some Sobering Facts About Nuclear War" by Petr Beckmann.
As awful as nuclear war would be, it would not be the end of the world, and there are things much worse than war, which, for a Libertarian, really should require no explanation. See the links below for Dr. Petr Beckmann's spèech, "Preventing Nuclear War."
Dr. Petr Beckmann--"Preventing Nuclear War"
https://youtu.be/YsIPgs-f94w
Dr. Petr Beckmann "Preventing Nuclear War" Part 2
https://youtu.be/YsIPgs-f94w
And Parts 3 and 4 are in the reply here:
Well heck, Beav, what SHOULD we start World War III over then? We gotta find something before the voters give us the business in November. Boy, we’re really gonna get it then!
LOL! I forgot to italicize Robby's headline. His words are not mine. Please see the rest of my post.
I do not advocate starting a nuclear war over Ukraine. I do advocate that the U.S. and the West produce it's own energy so that the likes of Putin, the Saudis, the Ayatollahs, and the OPEC Tin-Horns can never again hold energy over our heads as a tool of extortion.
And now that Putin is waging war in Ukraine, I hope the Ukrainians, including their ethnic Russian Citizens, send Putin and his Putineers scurrying with tails between their legs, in fetal positions under their tables, too humiliated to come up to press the nuke button!
And again, as Dr. Beckmann might say from his shelter: "I ain't 'fraid of no nuke ghost!"
Petr Beckmann?
Yep. I know, the name Sounds vaguely like Peter Venkman from theGhostbusters movie series.. But Dr. Petr Beckmann was on a mission to bust different mythical beings, namely the conventional wisdom tropes on nuclear power, environmentalism, nuclear weapons, and civil defense. He did his work well.
Dr. Petr Beckmann-"Preventing Nuclear War" Part 3
https://youtu.be/4c4mO0TY6vg
Dr. Petr Beckmann--"Preventing Nuclear War" Part 4
https://youtu.be/CuYBdukDf4s
And remember: You have only one life to live. Spend it upholding the freedom that gives everything that makes that life worth living!
Did you subscribe to Access To Energy back in the day too?
I wish I did. I may see if I can find back issues for sale. Dr. Petr Beckmann was also one of the few voices of sanity on nuclear power as an energy source in the Seventies and Eighties.
Everyone else at that time was believing the hysterical craziness from that Jane Fonda movie The China syndrome, but Dr. Petr Beckmann explained the basic physics of nuclear power well and showed how it is actually the safest, most efficient, cleanest source of energy man has ever discovered. Michael Shellenberger and Stewart Brand are following today the path that Dr. Petr Beckmann paved decades ago.
Here is Dr. Petr Beckmann's speech "Defending Nuclear Power" in three parts, with the Part 3 linked in the next post:
Dr. Petr Beckmann "Defending Nuclear Power" Part 1
https://youtu.be/T3S-WuJfSwg
Dr. Petr Beckmann "Defending Nuclear Power" Part 2
https://youtu.be/n9-1-a6hGg8
Dr. Petr Beckman "Defending Nuclear Power" Part 3
https://youtu.be/6UPS34gGuIU
I didn't think it possible, but the media is even more rabid than it was in the runup to the Iraq invasion.
And I thought I was done being called a 'Russian Troll' but apparently not.
I agree, the Biden Administration can find a better excuse to start WW3 than Ukraine. like maybe Joe's Jitterbug cell phone getting hacked!
Jitterbug? You mean he doesn't use the old-timey wall phone with a dial and a massive extension cord? 🙂
What’s stopping Putin from using nukes regardless of what USA does?
https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1498707386558824450?t=lXEF_zImq1jhG1fthYJBew&s=19
Support for US joining a potential war in Europe over Ukraine. By party:
R - 49%
D - 53%
I - 44%
Fuck you, neoconlibs
Q: Poll results show that half the country disagrees with my foreign policy views. What do I do?
A: Yell "Fuck you!" at them and call them names, of course!
“The US cannot attack Russia because the US has yet to declare war on the country.” Yeah, that’s stopped us before.
This, unfortunately, is a sad truth. We haven't actually declared war since WWII. Even Korea and Vietnam weren't wars declared by Congress as the Constitution requires.
Sad day for the world.. militarily our hands are tied. Far worse .. NUCLEAR proliferation IS NOW THE THING. Ukraine GREATLY REGRETS giving up its nukes 30 years ago. Now MOST countries will want nukes as insurance from invading countries. Couple this with greater chance crazy leaders would use the empowering weapons bodes ill for the future.
At this point the only option that really is a ‘bargain’ is to Stop buying russian oil! I have bought very little gas/oil with my electric car over 4 years -so many reasons why I will NEVER go back to ICE.. especially as a means of NOT funding tyranny.
Evs also keep a big ceiling on what oil countries can charge…this freedom from oil is a big thorn to oil autocracies.
You do know that the electricity that charges your batteries is generated by fossil fuels and Uranium, right?
Then what should we attack Russia and start World War III over?
No, he wants other people to send their kids to die.
Just like the example of Pakistan and the Taliban. Why are you so dumb and weak? An insurgency by definition fought by local people.
You mean the "world's game". Hardly anyone supports Russia here.
The U.S. game is regime change and nation building!
"We came, we saw, he died!"
The US's game is creating consequences for Russia for their unprovoked and brutal attack of a neighboring country.
And Biden is doing a fantastic job playing that game. Russia? Getting their ass kicked by Ukraine and the world economic response.
The good guys are winning and the bad guys are geiing what they deserve.
I hope Putin stockpiled body bags along with blood supplies. He'll need them.
And if Putin believes those things (as well as sanctions) to be acts of war as he has publicly stated? Are we already at war with Russia?
Thank you for your opinion. You're my acid test.
You are on acid.
Of course, that was my point. In for a penny, in for a pound. Small measures, like sanctions and embargos, ballon to larger measures when they lack efficacy. Then a small pin prick blows the whole thing up. Stay the fuck out completely (my perferred option) or go scorched earth. The half measures are potemkin nostrums so politicans can save face.
Make as much money for the MIC as possible.
Go watch Braveheart. That's my game.
LoL have you ever seen anything happen in 2 weeks from any of those people ?
One note about electromagnetic rail guns: They produce so much heat from the friction of the projectile and the barrel, the heat melts the barrel and they are only good for two shots at most.
About 15 years back, I reqd in Maxim that the Navy had on it's wish list an electromagnetic rail gun that could fire a automobile-sized projectile at a speed of Mach 10, that could shake building apart with it's sonic booms and vaporize anything it targeted. It's cost was I think into into either the Tens or Hundreds of Billions of $Dollars.
I forgot how many Volts and Mega-or Giga-Watts of electricity it took but I doubt it could be built in 2 weeks, and until they iron out the obvious glitch, that's one Hell of a costly oversized disposable Derringer.
The swarm of drones that could buy are a much better bet.
Joe go take your worlds best contractor status to Ukraine and help rebuild.
interesting Reasons Communist -supporting approach...
The US, in aiding Ukraine would be " attacking Russia" thys be respinsible for startung nuclear war.
Thats not writing. Its outright lying.
Every story on this worthless Communist site on this topic has been framed in supporting Russian aggression, outing it as Commie Agit Propaganda.
You should think about trying mushrooms for therapy.
A lot of people seem to forget that it was Washington that set the stage for this in the first place when Hillary Obama and her color revolution took place in the Ukraine and installed neo Nazi regime in power. Porshenko has claims to be one of the most corrupt leaders in Europe and that's saying a lot. Of course it was great for the Bidens and who knows who else.
They also seem to forget the ten thousand or more Russians who were living in the Donbass region that were systematically wiped out because they were Russians. The bombings , the artillery attacks, the rapes and murders committed by Ukrainian neo-nazis. How many murdered in the Lugansk region alone?
Ukraine has its problems and one of them is Washington. The other is the corrupt neo-nazi regime that is in power.
So for anyone who wants to join the fight over there I suggest they put their money where their mouth is and rush over there and grab a gun.
It's just their old habits showing conditionef from a world that doesn't exist anymore.
He's calling Reason commie for basically playing up Russia intimidation. Both siding the situation.
Jesus, man. Even the Chinese aren't Communists any more.
A vast knowledge of strategy based on Hollywood movies. Yes, I'm sure that will be a stunning success.
I meant for attitude and what motivates me.
Yes. Cold war, or proxy war. It's sadly telling that the progressives and hardline rightists are on the same page, calling for intervention. With a smattering of fucktard wokeism, the concern for Ukraine is due to racism, naturally.
Oh comrade, we have ALWAYS been at war with Russia.
That's right. before you know Putin will be at our doorstep, why he's practically installed missile bases just inside Canada and Mexico!
Not only does Putin want Ukrain, he wants all of Europe! The Britain then.....
The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!
You sound like the guy who got himself thrown out of the window after a lot of big talk about his knowledge of war.
Zelensky is a Jew you dumb piece of shit. Putin is the Nazi here.
Either you are paid Russian disinformation or Q-Anon. No one else could post that pile of bullshit and believe it.
Well, you could be Alex Jones. But you weren't trying to sell us dick pills so probably not.
Then, there's a number of U.S. bioweapons labs dotting the Ukrainian countryside.
Just remember the reaction when kruschev parked some missiles in Cuba.
Then consider how Washington would react if Russia parked some missiles inside Mexico or set up a bio weapons lab.
America is not the great golden light of freedom and democracy.
Correct. Sovereign nations are sovereign. We could create incentives (and disincentives) for Mexico or Canada to choose not to base missiles, but we can't tell them whatbthey can or can't do.
That 1950s, domino-theory worldview is so outdated it's only embraced by those who can't accept that the world constantly changes.
A little too early MT-Man and I'm too old.
Not just their kids. Lord of Strazele wants to sacrifice other people's quality of life too. We now have to suffer through increased energy costs and investment losses because of sanctions and corporate divestments. The latte sippers don't give a dam. It's just another way to stick it to the middle class.
This conflict really isn't any of America's business. It's actually an internecine conflict in a far away part of the world. The framers were clear that it was not the task of the USG to take sides in foreign conflicts.
If he can't succeed, he'll fail, and he can't succeed in Ukraine if NATO keeps supplying an insurgency with formidable weapons. Chechnya was a disaster, and they didn't enjoy the kind of support we're doling out to the Ukrainians. And I don't see any good reason to believe that the Ukrainian people won't continue to fight--even if Putin does succeed in decapitating the government. They just don't strike me as the kind of people who are likely to give up.
Both Iraq and Vietnam were failures in my book, but why does that matter?
Is this about bothsideism for you? Are you anti-American for some reason?
All the things I said about Putin and Grozny are true--regardless of whether the U.S. ever launched a foolish war that we couldn't really win.
I do not want a direct conflict between the United States and Russia. Why would you think I did?
This is a proxy war like when the Russians invaded Afghanistan. We can't lose a war we're not a party to directly.
In order to lose, we'd need to be in a direct conflict, so the easy way to avoid losing is to not take part directly.
If the Ukrainian people will never accept Putin's rule, then Putin can't win. Russia can't win so long as we keep supplying the insurgency with weapons, too.
The U.S. in Vietnam was a mistake. Russia invading Afghanistan was a mistake. Putin walked into the same trap in the Ukraine.
If the U.S. doesn't get involved directly, how can it lose?
If Ukraine is kicking Russia's ass, what do you think would happen to them if NATO or the US gets involved? If they can't control Ukrainian airspace after 5 days, what chance do they have againstvthe Air Force? What happens when a carrier group comes knocking?
It's all academic, since we can't afford the consequences of a shooting war with Russia. But given the evidence of their military skills from the Donbass and the latest invasion, Russia would get rolled by most of the Western armies individually, never mind NATO as a whole.
Yes, war is messy. Which is a huge part of why it is so god dammed important to not fuck around with it when nuclear winter is on the line.
Resisting the expansion of the Soviet Union ultimately led to the total implosion of the USSR--and perhaps the greatest liberation of hundreds of millions of people in the history of humanity from under Russian dominance.
Meanwhile, neither Al Qaeda, nor the Taliban, nor any other terrorist group ever presented the threat the American people that the USSR did. Even IF IF IF arming the Mujaheddin against the Russians led directly to 9/11, seeing the Soviet Union completely humiliated was worth it.
Anyone in 1980 who said that we shouldn't arm the Mujaheddin against the Soviets because although it might help lead to the dissolution of the Evil Empire, it could lead to a terrorist attack 21 years in the future was an idiot to say so.
Meanwhile, anyone who compares the people of Ukraine fighting against Russian aggression to the religious fanatics in Al Qaeda today is an idiot for making the comparison. There is no good reason to think that the people of Ukraine, who are fighting to join with us as allies both in the EU and NATO, will inflict terrorist attacks on the American people--twenty years from now or otherwise.
You’ve probably never been in a fistfight your whole life. Let alone any kind of lethal combat situation. You leftists are the real chicken hawks.
And a drug addict.. don't forget he's a drug addict.. It's just Nazis and drug addicts, all the way down.
No, actually no Stingers sent to the Mujaheddin were used against American targets to the best of my knowledge, and the terrorists who organized out of the resistance to Russian aggression would have organized without us.
And terrorism was never anywhere near the threat to the American people that the Soviet Union was. And seeing that threat brought low--along with Russia itself--was the best thing that could have happened for American security since World War II.
I am so glad the authoritarian communist Soviet Union fell to pieces. After all, I'm an American--and a libertarian capitalist at that. The Soviet Union fell apart, and Putin, like a crazed idiot, is following in its footsteps. Russia is the laughingstock of the world.
"the people of Ukraine, who are fighting to join with us as allies both in the EU and NATO"
What are the benefits to the American people of such an alliance?
"I am so glad the authoritarian communist Soviet Union fell to pieces. After all, I'm an American--and a libertarian capitalist at that. The Soviet Union fell apart"
And now totalitarian Soviets rule the US.
U-S-S-A!
U-S-S-A!
"Where do you stand on using American drones to kill the Russians in Ukraine. Assuming we "sell" them to Ukraine or put some paper transaction in place for deniability?"
Where would you stand on using Russian drones to kill Americans in Texas?
Assuming Russia "sells" them to a cartel in Mexico for some deniability?
"This was unavoidable because [insert enemy] just kept pushing, so we had to push back. God, you sound like a [insert enemy] stooge."
This is actually step 1 now, to be revisited throughout.
International opinion appears to be siding with the right of a people to secede. George III and Lincoln roll over in their graves. Biden contemplates losing half the country.
I call him sqrlsy2
He’s calling both communist, which is just fucking warmed over 80’s neocon bullshit.
But it's totes important to take money from Americans at gunpoint to pay for weapons to give Ukrainians...
For democracy.
Or freedom.
Or self determination.
Or whatever the entire male population who's been conscripted and barred from leaving is being forced to fight for...
"Sadly for libertarians I don't think anti interventionalism is going to stop putin."
Who the fuck cares?
It's none of business.
If European nations feel threatened, they should figure out how to stop him.
But fuck ruining my life and putting Americans at risk for a bunch of totalitarian globalists who hate us and want total control of our society.
NATO has invaded Serbia, Libya, and Afghanistan (not to mention a dozen other countries that member states have gone into w/o officially being NATO missions) and been waging continuous war for 20 years.
Our political class/leadership and media have been lockstep in hostile rhetoric toward Russia for over a decade.
NATO has rejected Russian inclusion multiple times while absorbing several nations that provide nothing but strategic leverage against Russia.
Agree or disagree with the conclusions that should be drawn from that, but at least try to see how it looks from Russia's perspective.
^got him
+++
The Ghost of Kyiv is actually the combined souls of the 13 martyred heroes of Snake Island, filled with the moral superiority of Greta Zelensky, Instagram model and freedom fighter who slays Russians with her (airsoft) assault rifle.
The Ghost of Kyiv has 584 air to air victories, and destroyed 29 tanks in hand to hand combat!
"and massacre thousands of innocent people"
This is a baseless assumption, especially in light of the first week of war.
Where else should we, using resources extracted from Americans at gunpoint, intervene to prevent "massacre of thousands of innocent people"?
Guess we can count you as a full supporter of the Serbia, Libya, Syria, and Iraq bombing campaigns.
Funny thing is, this is the same rationale Russia has for invading Ukraine...
Does that make any of the statements in the post NOYB2 is referring to untrue?
"My God I actually have to agree with you again"
You should reflect upon that fact.
"But none of these libertarians are also saying if Ukraine wants to join those orgs or build its own weapons, then Ukraine has the right to make its own decisions regardless of what Russia thinks."
What does that have to do with the US?
Absolutely nothing.
Unless you think the proper libertarian position is to violently support such a right to self determination worldwide. Of course, that might lead you into a bit of internal conflict in Eastern Ukraine.
This thought process is irrational and dangerous.
This country doesn't do it.
The American people pay for it.
A small percentage of the American people fight and die for it.
The rulers who make the decision to go to war neither fight nor pay for it.
But OUR election was fortified to make sure Trump voters wouldn't be allowed to prevail.
Guess if we do World War III for Ukraine that totes fixes democracy for all.
Certainly the most destructive, with the least possible benefit to the American people
L O L
12,000 civilians have been killed by Saudi Airstrikes.
Time for regime change!
This is some really desperate brain pretzeling, dizzle.
Nothing you said has anything to do with the facts cited.
Bioweapoms labs? Really? How big of an idiot are you? Or, I guess, how stupid do you think we are?
Might makes right, eh? Very medieval of you.
Russia generally, and Putin specifically, cannot be trusted to act in a responsible manner.
I hope that when Putin's Folly has come to an end and the Russian army gets its ass kicked by either a nonstop insurgency (what I expected) or a stright-up fight with the Ukrainian Army (the surprise dark horse candidate) the world realizes that they have to put severe restrictions on Russia's ability to attack anyone else.
They don't have to be; They get everything they want by being Democrats.
It's more that Russia has shown, over the last 8 years, that they can't kick Ukraine's ass and I'm certain that the US military is stronger and more advanced than Ukraine's.
Maybe they wouldn't punch above their weight class like Ukraine has. But Russian incompetence and military failure is the reason I think they would get their asses kicked.
https://twitter.com/TheChosenn01/status/1497673154432487430?t=Arx4O7qg8BgwmGw1joxvKw&s=19
Public records for US biolabs in Ukraine deleted today at around 2pm from US embassy website.
[Link]
the entire male population who's been conscripted and barred from leaving
It is true - Women earn less than men.
Maybe this will help: the country that violates the sovereign borders of another nation (as Russia has three times now) is the bad guy.
Is that simple enough for you? Russia is not right. Period.
If so, their planning clearly sucks. It's not like they said, "Well, we could stop the wrecking of our economy any time we want. We just don't want to.".
Look forward to your consequences, Nelson.
What are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense.
I'm open to American Empire, but it needs to be a no shit empire.
That means throw out the humanitarian bs, take direct control of territory through aggressive invasion of sovereign states, and utilize their resources to enrich the American people.
That's what control of resources means- take the fucking oil
It's more about the batshit crazy things that JohnZ is saying (which are exactly the same batshit crazy things that Pitin and Lavrov are saying). When that much false information is coming from one poster, what should the assumption be? That it's a massive coincidence? Please.
Like I said, don't piss on us and tell us it's raining.
No, it's been known since 2014.
It's inextricably linked with Maidan.
Some of us have been aware of what's going on there prior to last week.
Neither Ukraine nor America has done anything to justify Russia's invasion.
There is no justification for it.
I mean, c'mon. Even if Ukraine was chock-full of Nazis, proudly waved the Nazi flag, pledged allegiance to their immortal leader, Adolph Hitler, and claimed that Nazis were 100% right, Ryssia has to suck it up.
Because what a sovereign nation does isn't Russia's to change. No matter how awful they think those things are.
And since Russia is the violent, repressive, autocratic nation and Ukraine is trying to reform enough to join the ranks of responsible democratic nations, Russia was a terrible country even before they started killing innocent people.
it just creates incentives, and disincentives, and there is nothing corrupt or objectionable about that.
That is called Diplomacy.
Creating incentives and disincentives is what people do. In business, in government, in law, etc. Capitalism is built on incentives and disincentives. Why would you object to them?
In what world is that? Put down the mushrooms and let the bad trip fade. In the real world secession is ot valid unless the ENTIRE country votes for it. Ukraine didn't vote for anyone to secede. Russia attacked Ukraine in Crimea, the Donbass, and now throughout the rest of the country.
And they're doing a piss-poor job of it.
We aren't fighting to control them. The US is not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to conquer and control Ukraine or Taiwan.
But the Communist thing is a little silly. Neither Russia nor China are Communibst countries. Russia is an autocratic kleptocracy and China is the most aggressive, monopolistic, robber-baron style capitalist country in the planet
Did I say anything about taking military action against Russia? No.
All I said is they have to be contained because they can't be trusted. That probably means expanding NATO to Ukraine and any other country that borders Russia, limiting importation of military hardware and componenents, removing them from the UN Security Council, creating a set of eco omic penalties for any other attacks on other countries, and other things that would create negative consequences for invading another country, limit/decrease their ability to produce offensive weaponry, and fence them in.
It won't change their autocratic and brutal regime, but changing that is the responsibility of the Russian people.
True. If Russia was getting what they deserved, Putin and his fellow warmongers would get a third eye. But we know that the people who create the nightmare never actually pay for it.
Russia invaded the Donbass and Crimea eight years ago. They have been fighting in the Donbass (taking a little time out to shoot down a comercial airliner) ever since.
Well, not the Russia getting their asses kicked a smaller, weaker, and less technologically advanced Ukrainian military. That isn't academic, it's the daily reality of the Russian military.
Depends on the conflict, but since the end of WWII? Korea was more valid than not, Kuwait (the Gulf War) was fine (especially since we just kicked Saddam back to Iraq and went home), and Afghanistan up to the point when we got bin Laden was kosher. Other than that, you are right.
We shouldn't have been in Vietnam or Iraq. Once Osama bin Laden was killed we had no justification to stay in Afghanistan.
Like I said elsewhere, Americans don't hide from their mistakes. We literally teach them in our schools. It makes us a better country and it makes us strong.
I'm not. But I also wasn't commenting on military matters. I was pointing out that if Putin and Russia had planned ahead to counteract the actions we could use against them, their planning sucked.
Their stock market hasn't opened in two days because it would crash the moment it opened. The central bank is effectivy cut off from the world financial system. The ruble is worth less than a penny. There are runs in their banks. The entire world, except their puppets in Belarus, has united against them.
Their intelligence services are so bad that we knew exactly what they were planning and told the world about it. Their "justifications" were so ridiculous that they would have been laughable even if American intelligence hadn't told the world what Putin would say days before he said it.
Russia's economy was roughly equivalent to that of New Jersey. Not even one of the big states like Texas, California, New York, or Illinois. New-freaking-Jersey. Now it probably lags behind Alabama or West Virginia.
Russia is being smacked around like the unruly child they are in the world. If Putin actually cared about Russia he would stop the invasion and sue for peace. But he is a Tommy Toughguy blowhard who is incapable of admiting Russia is a second-rate country. It will continue to cause misery for Russia until they kick him to the curb.
Sorry, the invading autocrat holds the moral high ground, right? The ones killing civilians with cluster bombs in the midst of an unjustified invasion is clearly the more moral side.
Disincentives like if you, with no justification, invade another country, you will be ostracized by most of the world and your economy will collapse.
Ja