The Heritage Foundation Wants To Break the Internet
The conservative think tank identifies some genuine concerns about tech companies, but gets the prescription wrong.

This week, Kara Frederick of the conservative Heritage Foundation released a report titled "Combating Big Tech's Totalitarianism." As evidenced by the title, Frederick takes a dim view of the current state of the tech sector, mentioning companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google, and makes suggestions for reforms she feels are necessary. But while some of the suggestions are understandable, even laudable, much of the report comes at the issue from the wrong angle.
Frederick starts by detailing certain censorial actions by "Big Tech" firms, which she defines as the "Big Five" of Alphabet (which owns Google), Amazon, Apple, Meta (which owns Facebook), and Microsoft, plus companies like Twitter, Snapchat, TikTok, and Netflix, "whose cultural and political impacts on public debate are important." Indeed, some of the incidents detailed are troubling: Social media platforms blocking users from sharing a New York Post article about Hunter Biden just weeks before the 2020 election, YouTube suspending videos of politicians for simply discussing public health topics, etc. Obviously, none of these are First Amendment violations, as private companies can allow or disallow any speech they please, but these actions do detract from a culture of free speech.
The report veers off course in some of its reform recommendations. Specifically, Frederick invokes Section 230, the law which exempts websites from liability for content posted by its users, but she misunderstands its history and application. The report states, "digital platforms like Facebook and Google initially claimed to be neutral conduits of information, and Section 230 enshrined this claim and allowed these companies to accrue users and technical advantages under those auspices." This is wrong: Section 230 predates both of those companies by nearly a decade and could not possibly have been drafted with either of them in mind. What's more, Section 230 has nothing to do with a platform's neutrality—the explicit intent of the law was to encourage platforms to moderate content.
Much of the report calls for reforms that would either be difficult to implement or just make the internet worse. One recommendation states, "In addition to clarifying what speech may be (and is expected to be) moderated under Section 230, policymakers should expressly state specific examples of what is not covered… If firms are moderating content based on these criteria, they should not be afforded liability protections under Section 230 and would not be considered 'viewpoint-neutral.'" The idea that any group of people could sit down and craft a comprehensive list of what is and is not OK to post online simply defies logic.
"Viewpoint neutrality" is a completely ephemeral concept, almost entirely within the eye of the beholder: What I consider radical, you may consider completely reasonable. Not to mention, the intentional preference of certain speech over other speech is almost certainly unconstitutional. If a group of atheists crashed a church sermon in order to try to convince the congregation to renounce their faith, the pastor would be perfectly within his rights to have them removed. Frederick is making the case that if the exact same interaction took place in the comments section of the church's website, the church would have to leave that content up.
Tech companies are certainly not immune from criticism, and the report is not without merit. But by focusing so much misdirected ire on Section 230 and a vague target of neutrality, its recommendations threaten to make the internet a place of restrictions rather than expression. If the goal is, as the report states, to "restore the principles of free expression and the democratic promise of technology," then this is exactly the wrong way to do it.
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The heritage foundation is irrelevant to conservatives.
They’re just trying to drum up funding by appealing to their former supporters.
Wait, I thought section 230 protected free speech, but now we are saying it was passed to encourage moderation?
And we still are missing the elephant in the room, the fact that most of this "moderation" is only in one direction, and is being championed, even being pushed through threats, by the government. We also are still missing the 800 pound gorilla that there is rampant collusion between big tech and big finance to stifle any competition, and that state regulatory regimes are also severely stifling competition. Some of the state regulatory regimes aren't even American, the impact of regulations in the EU, UK and China, to name a few, have also driven the censorship of unfavored views. We also are ignoring what appears to be inconsistency on TOS, and the courts blocking civil suits on TOS violations. One of the fundamental necessities for a robust free market is strong contract enforcement. Don't expect any of Biden's court appointees to protect individuals from contract violations of the big five.
Market consolidation driven by government regulations has put us in a place were companies, media and government is promoting a unified narrative while working hard to silence heterodoxy. Reason pretended for a long time that this wasn't a problem. But now pretends that despite this being a government produced problem, that the government has little to no role in countering it. It would be one thing if this was a culturally driven phenomena, but the ones driving it make up only a small percentage of the population, but hold a lot of power, and the revolving door between media, tech companies and the government, especially when Democrats are in control, only makes this problem worse.
We are seeing a political realignment right now, but at this point populism is the benefactor, because capitalist and libertarians have pretended like there was no problem for to long. You pooh-poohed anyone who brought this up with refrains of "muh private company" (and must reference it whenever you discuss it) ignoring the fact that much of this was being pushed by government entities and one political tribe in particular. Is there any surprise that people are up in arms about it, and willing to use force to correct the problem?
As a capitalist, but also a realist, I can only say we are laying in the bed that we made.
"...most of this "moderation" is only in one direction, and is being championed, even being pushed through threats, by the government."
Most, possibly, but certainly not all. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/parler-app-ban-free-speech-trump-b1721710.html
PARLER: ‘FREE SPEECH’ APP POPULAR WITH FAR-RIGHT FIGURES BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING FREELY, USERS CLAIM
Bans them from speaking about what? Child porn?
Beats the hell out of me, from personal experience at least! I've not posted there! From what I have read, perceived "liberal" comments are NOT welcome there! So the whining on "both sides" just reflects endless tribalism... On both sides! Both sides censor the other, generally, end of story! Government Almighty will "fix" it all for us? Geezum, WHAT could POSSIBLY go wrong with THIS solution?
Which side takes its orders from the government? Try not to lie.
Which side takes its orders from Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Try not to lie.
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1070864361
'The Big Lie' Lives On, And May Lead Some To Oversee The Next Election
Trumpturds will be counting the votes, next time around!!!
I’m embarrassed for you.
I’m embarrassed for the future of democracy, if there is any to be had! Thanks to the brainless power-lust of True Believers in The Big Lie!!!
The biggest threat to democracy is idiots like you who ignore the problem and play whataboutism. People are pissed. Rather than actually address the problem or do anything to fix it, you just try to play the "both sides" argument. When section 230 is rewritten you only have yourself to blame. I hope you will be happy with the results. But I figure you won't and just whine more about how libertarians never are listened too. The reason no one listens to you is you lack any iota of pragmatism or utilitarianism.
I support Section 230 as is written... It is truly the "1A of the Internet Era"... NO replacement will be better than it is! ESPECIALLY not for conservatives! Have conservatives NOT yet noticed that they were DEFEATED in the last POTUS election?
"Try not to lie"
He didn't even try, Vulgar.
I’ll freely admit I’m often wrong. I just don’t get what people like him are up too.
And why do you always have to inject Trump into the argument? And really, you are citing that progressive shit hole NPR? Why not cite Vox or mediematters while you're at it?
He wants Trump to fuck him. It’s sad Rey.
And not only citing NPR but citing a transcript of an interview with partisans, one of whom is Joe Biden. You just can't make this shit up. I can't believe you actually cited that as anything but a joke or really bad trolling. What's next, citing an interview from Mao on how well the fucking Cultural Revolution worked. Stalin on how well farm collectivism worked? Oh my God, this is way to fucking funny.
So you refute my sources by saying "they are of the wrong tribe". OK, gotcha!
Do the honorable thing.
I am. I am speaking truth as I see it!
From http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ …
“Our human brains today are evolutionary hodge-podges of layer stacked upon layer. Fish brain, then amphibian brain, reptile brain, monkey brain, ape brain, and hunter-gatherer brain. My-tribe-right, your-tribe-is-lesser (or worse) belongs to hunter-gatherer brain. Prophets and seers, seekers and teachers, throughout the years, have criticized their tribes for this. “This ain’t right”, they say! They have called us forwards into the next stage of evolution! And they (at the extremes) have been killed for it! Now again, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ for details, but this “kill-the-prophets” thing is likely programmed (instinctively or emotionally) into the hunter-gatherer brain. A polite phrase for it is the “do-gooder derogation” instinct. A more in-your-face term for it might be to call it the Jesus-killer (Mahatma Gandhi-killer, Martin Luther King Jr.-killer, etc.) instinct. There’s very little good news in there for the INDIVIDUAL prophet or teacher. What little good news in this phenomenon is that AFTER we have killed the prophet, THEN we often at least START to listen to what they had to say!”
My tribe’s lies leading to violence are GOOD! YOUR tribe’s lies leading to violence are BAD! That describes YOU, EvilBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer! That is why you and some of your fellow troglodytes hate me and what I write! All the Demon-Craps have stolen the election(s), so they are all VERY evil, so it is OK to kill them and steal their shit, right?
So did the man in whose footsteps you walk. He also demonized others by accusing them of "the Big Lie". He also reasoned about politics in terms of "evolution" and "monkey brains". And he railed about political tribalism and political differences, wanting everybody to be unified into a single, happy nation state.
I'm assuming, SQRLSY, that you haven't quite reached the point where you want to go on gassing millions of people. But you're ideologically certainly on that path.
I’ve been trying to get SQRLSY to end his own life for years now. Kudos to you if you can get him to do it.
I dispute them because it is unreliable, due to the obvious partisanship. If you don't understand why, I doubt it worth explaining to you. I wouldn't accept an opinion piece written by Trump on Fox, or a transcript of an interview of Trump by Sean Hannity either. Neither are unbiased, and therefore both must be viewed with extreme skepticism.
Your counter argument might be valid if the right were a unified block.
They are not. (And don’t forget that libertarians get lumped on the right because we’re pro-capitalism and pro-liberty).
No group of people is a unified block... We are all individuals, no matter HOW much we try hard to give up our free will!!!
Sad to say, 70 or 80% of the self-declared "R" party followers will NOT shake "The Big Lie" off of their shoulders! And they'll NOT vote for anyone who "disses" The Big Lie!
There may be better links, but here you go...
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/05/1070362852/trump-big-lie-election-jan-6-families
They believe in Trump's 'Big Lie.' Here's why it's been so hard to dispel
It was Adolf Hitler who accused the Jews of being guilty of "the Big Lie". The Nazis used the idea of the original big lie to turn sentiment against Jews and justify the Holocaust. (Jeffrey Herf).
You are following in Hitler's footsteps, SQRLSY.
And it is in no way surprising that you do.
Trump (and cult-of-personality followers of Lord Trump) are in Hitler's footpath, not me! Refute the below, tribalist!
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump’s Big Lie and Hitler’s: Is this how America’s slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
The Salon article says "Hitler rose to power because he told a Big Lie. " That is factually false. Hitler rose to power by accusing the Jews of the Big Lie and demonizing them, just like you are doing.
(Hitler clearly also told lots of lies, but none of those are referred to as the "Big Lie".)
Not only are you using Hitler's propaganda technique (as is the Salon article), you are using it to defend propaganda tools of the regime (namely corporate media).
(The Salon article is wrong in many other ways.)
Parler is a minor player in the market, and even if true, this is not even close to being equivalent in impact or breadth. This is what I mean by ignoring both the elephant and 800 pound gorilla. It's statements and whataboutism like what you just posted that is likely to result in outcomes you don't like. People are pissed and feel like they are being ignored. Just keep pissing them off. We all will pay, but you will be far less happy with the results. Just keep it up. You don't like populism or tribalism or nativism. Ignoring the valid complaints of others or playing apples to oranges whataboutism won't end these, it will only feed them and end up in something worse. Fuck I know you are a stupid tribalist idiot, but you will have no one to blame but yourself. The same goes for Reason.
Here you are, posting your stuff FOR FREE on Reason.com!!! Is FOR FREE not good enough for you? What, a 2-links-per-post limit gets you all disturbed? Then PAY for your internet access, as I do, and you can post as many links as you want!
I pay (PAY! With MY money! I OWN!) for my own web site at Go-Daddy. I say some VERY sarcastic and un-politically-correct, intolerant things about cults like Scientology there (and Government Almighty as well). I am QUITE sure that a LOT of “tolerant” liberal-type folks at Google etc. would NOT be happy with the types of things I wrote! Yet, if you do a search-string “Scienfoology”, Google will take you STRAIGHT to MY web site, top hit! #1!
https://www.google.com/search?q=scienfoology&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPzZqf0dXsAhUCT6wKHez9DNwQvgUoAXoECDEQKg&biw=1920&bih=941
Your whining and crying is (just about ) UTTERLY without basis!
WHERE is your respect for property rights?! I learned to respect the property rights of others, before I was in the 1st grade! Didn’t your Momma raise you right?
Nobody read that
That's his go to move when you prove him wrong, he lacks an argument, or you point out his ignorance, a completely incomprehensible screed that makes no sense.
Reason only moderates the comments in a good faith effort to keep illegal content off the site. Which follows the letter and spirit of 230.
Fuck, they don’t even remove spambots.
Good for Reason! Hoo-Ray!!! But BOOOO for those who endlessly lust after the demise of Section 230, and the demise off (affordable) free speech, right along with it!
If most policies are hurting one group of people that means we ignore it because some other group is only marginally being hurt also? That isn't even a good argument.
Reason seems to admire the internet restrictions of China.
Their bosses sure do.
"THE LIGHTS ARE STILL AT THE SAME GODDAMNED BRIGHTNESS!"
---
They are getting rather insistent with that gaslighting, aren't they?
Aren’t you pleased that your chocolate ration has been increased to a lesser amount?
I am *delighted* by the increase in the chocolate ration from 2 ounces per person to 40 grams per person! Big Brother is so generous!
The “funny” thing is, candy bars are indeed getting smaller.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of 14 ounce packages of stuff lately. Similar phenomenon.
"I managed to snag a biden pound of ground... let's call it 'beef', at the market."
"I'll see what I can do with 12 ounces. I've still got some potatoes."
Censorship is bad no matter who does it. Especially when there is not a huge difference between media, tech companies and the Democratic party. People move back and forth
Take Facebook. Every senior manager has worked on a Democratic Party campaign or for an elected Democrat.
They are the party.
The revolving door between the DNC, government bureaucracy, tech companies and media is definitely a problem for anyone who has deviates from the progressive playbook. Yes, there is some interchange between the GOP and FNC and other smaller conservative media outlets, but it's such a small percentage that at this point it is barely a problem. Far better to drain the huge abscess than worry about the pimple.
THOSE DARN CONSERVATIVES!!!
Good thing the biggest threat to our freedoms is a bunch of old nannies upset about all the censorship, deplatforming, witch hunts, book burning and incipient fascism.
That's right folks, here at TeenReason the real problem isn't runaway censorship. It's the wrong sort of peoples reaction to it.
And remember, it isn't a first amendment issue if the government pressures others to do the attacks on free speech for them.
Speaking of incipient fascism, I give you this! (WHEN will Trump take BACK his Big Lie, anyway?)
https://www.salon.com/2021/04/11/trumps-big-lie-and-hitlers-is-this-how-americas-slide-into-totalitarianism-begins/
Trump’s Big Lie and Hitler’s: Is this how America’s slide into totalitarianism begins?
The above is mostly strictly factual, with very little editorializing. When I post it, the FACTS never get refuted… I only get called names. But what do you expect from morally, ethically, spiritually, and intellectually bankrupt Trumpturds?
Totalitarians want to turn GOP into GOD (Grand Old Dicktatorshit).
How many times do you need that stupid Nazi article debunked, before you stop trotting it out in an effort to redirect the conversation?
Well, MAYBE if You (Oh Holy Queen of Internet Cesspools) "debunked" it by some OTHER method, OTHER than by...
A) NOT reading it, or...
B) Announcing that it could NOT EVEN POSSIBLY be true, 'cause it comes from the WRONG tribe?
Could You (or Your Tribespersons) POSSIBLY refute it in a DATA-DRIVEN manner, for just ONCE?
Wouldn’t it be pathetic if you were the first true AI?
I’m already embarrassed for the machines.
It's already been refuted in a "DATA-DRIVEN manner" by at least 12 different people here, and everytime that they do, you ghost the thread and then pretend it never happened.
You may think you're tricking people but you're not.
Oh, bullshit!!! UTTER bullshit! The historical facts listed are TRUE! Y'all Trumpturds haven't refuted a ONE of them!
Also...
Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
Nobody read that
Also, kill yourself.
Vulgarly, Insanely, Inanely-Mad SheMale, drinking Vulgarly, Insanely-Mad Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey Vulgarly, Insanely, Inanely-Mad SheMale …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
That’s 5he same kind of shit Jeffy and Liarson pull.
It's pathological.
As many times as the shit-gargling schizo can get a reaction from anyone by posting it?
"Ha ha, made ya look!"
First a transcript from a softball interview of Joe Biden and now Salon. Are you trying to look stupid or are you really that stupid? Yeah, I am sorry I unmuted you. I see you still are infected with TDS and wallow in your partisan ignorance.
"....Are you trying to look stupid or are you really that stupid?..."
That question has been answered long ago, and that TDS-addled spastic asshole is far more stupid than most of us can imagine.
Hey Smegmalung!
Don’t you have more important things to do, instead of thread-shitting here? As San Fran’s foremost homeless hobo, couldn’t you be doing your “squeegee” racket, fighting with the other bums, pooping in the streets, and yelling insane, deluded insults at passers-by?
Smegmalung’s next gig in Gay Ol’ San Fran: Burglary, which San Fran’s media suggests should now be tolerated!
https://www.foxnews.com/media/san-francisco-chronicle-ripped-for-asking-if-residents-should-tolerate-burglaries
San Francisco Chronicle ripped for asking if residents should 'tolerate burglaries'
Next on the Hit Parade for the San Francisco Chronicle: asking if residents should tolerate (even celebrate maybe?), not just burglary, butt also 'child buggery' by Super-Perv-Predator-Sevo the Pedo, Hippo in a Speedo, AKA “SmegmaLung”.
Fuck off. Trying to minimize your pals pedophilia by pushing it at others is disgusting even for you.
Well, at least I cited some sources. If you can cite some sources, I can "refute" them by saying "this comes from the wrong tribe"!
We are definitely sliding into totalitarianism, but it’s not because of Trump and will likely end up being President Harris that pulls the trigger on the American Experiment.
SQRLSY, you are using fascist rhetoric and propaganda tools, namely accusing others of "the Big Lie" in order to generate hatred and dehumanize others.
Like so many socialists and fascists, you are projecting your own faults, desires, and misconduct onto your political opponents.
Just build your own internet service provider, fascist!
Privatizing censorship is kind of brilliant, in an evil sort of way.
OPEN QUESTIONS FOR ALL ENEMIES OF SECTION 230
The day after tomorrow, you get a jury summons. You will be asked to rule in the following case: A poster posted the following to social media: “Government Almighty LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know!”
This attracted protests from liberals, who thought that they may have detected hints of sarcasm, which was hurtful, and invalidated the personhoods of a few Sensitive Souls. It ALSO attracted protests from conservatives, who were miffed that this was a PARTIAL truth only (thereby being at least partially a lie), with the REAL, full TRUTH AND ONLY THE TRUTH being, “Government Almighty of Der TrumpfenFuhrer ONLY, LOVES US ALL, FAR more than we can EVER know! Thou shalt have NO Government Almighty without Der TrumpfenFuhrer, for Our TrumpfenFuhrer is a jealous Government Almighty!”
Ministry of Truth, and Ministry of Hurt Baby Feelings, officials were consulted. Now there are charges!
QUESTIONS FOR YOU THE JUROR:
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, true or false?
“Government Almighty LOVES US ALL”, hurtful sarcasm or not?
Will you be utterly delighted to serve on this jury? Keep in mind that OJ Simpson got an 11-month criminal trial! And a 4-month civil trial!
How can you possibly use so many words to say absolutely nothing?
Do they pay you by the word?
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:
Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Thank You! -Reason Staff
They pay him in shit. Which he snacks on by his own admissions.
Citation please, evil liar!
"SQRLSY One
September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm
My Dad left me the chocolate below the rabbit hutch.
MMMMM GOOD! You should try them.
Lol
He did admit he eats poop.
He barfs it out to.
Well, after chasing the dog around on hands and knees to get a mouthful of that "soft serve ice cream" direct from the spigot... that's a lot of exertion. I can definitely see why someone might puke from running around that hard. Particularly to suck start a Great Dane's asshole.
Now he’s just going to demand proof. Even though we all know the truth.
A few skeptics said that to witch-burners during the Dark Ages. "Can you show me proof?" But the SMART people of the day, all KNEW that witches caused crop failures and diseases!
BURN the vote-stealing Demon-Craps, RIGHT, witch-burner? 'Cause WE ALL AGREE that it is what should be done! WHAT could POSSIBLY go wrong with this idea?
But conveniently, I won't have to watch him do it, because he's just a wee grey box.
Yes, but you really are an evil witch, ᛋᛋqrlsy.
They'd be right to burn you.
MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Chthonic Cunt, Twat of Twits, really ***IS*** a witch-burner! I am SHOCKED (but not really surprised).
All of this could have been avoided if Facebook and Twitter had just told people to fuck off and not read the posts that they didn’t like.
Well that, and if the government had kept its nose out of their businesses.
That's the craziest aspect of this. It wouldn't be difficult for those complaining about certain opinions to just click the mute or unfollow buttons. Allow users some more content filtering options and the reasonable conflict is solved. If a conservative doesn't want to see cursing or nudity, then let them set those filters. If liberals don't want to see "scary" or "offensive" materials then let them filter that (I hate having to click to uncensor a friend's "offensive" post.) When it comes down to it, unless these platforms are feeding content to the user that can't be avoided then all the content aside from ads comes from those they choose to interact with.
From a libertarian perspective the "both sides" argument is pure bullshit. One side wants to be able to speak and the other wants to shut down their speech. We are rapidly progressing to a point where opinions held by more than half of the population are deemed unacceptable and banned from all media. That is scary totalitarianism and anyone who remotely cares about liberty would be calling it out. Unfortunately, Reason writers are all politically leftist and don't understand the right at all. They see nothing objectionable because they are so insulated un a left-wing worldview
Banned by all media except the largest cable news channel and any upstart internet company that wants to host their bullshit.
You're just demanding access to Twitter's property against its will. You want government to take over a private company and force them to publish your speech. That is anti-1st amendment.
"One side wants to be able to speak and the other wants to shut down their speech."
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/parler-app-ban-free-speech-trump-b1721710.html
PARLER: ‘FREE SPEECH’ APP POPULAR WITH FAR-RIGHT FIGURES BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING FREELY, USERS CLAIM
Both sides ban the other! AND you can PAY for your OWN site at Go-Daddy, and speak your own mind ALL DAY!!! End of story!
You keep reposting this debunked crap.
That statement doesn't violate any laws, civil or criminal, so Facebook or whoever isn't responsible for it.
If you host other people's content and you knowingly host threats to other people's lives or people use your platform to trade in revenge porn, you will be held legally accountable in most of the world. And that is as it should be.
"That statement doesn't violate any laws, civil or criminal, so Facebook or whoever isn't responsible for it."
True today, and under Section 230. You just wait till "R" party witch-burners or "D" party Marxists take down Section 230, which is entirely my point! But you fascistically REFUSE to even GLANCE at my point!
And your point is b.s. because Section 230 has nothing to do with the legality of that statement.
And Section 230 makes it more likely that either party will pass such speech restrictions, since major donors like big corporate media and tech companies aren't affected by them under Section 230.
I have looked at your points: you are a fascist promoting an illiberal, fascist and corporatist agenda. You prove that every time you open your mouth.
We should do the same with capital punishment of Marxist traitors.
Like those who advocate federalizing (nationalizing) the private property of web site owners? Death penalty sounds extreme... I'd be OK with exporting them to North Korea, though, since they like Marxism so much!
(Certainly YOU are welcome to go there!)
Private parties are allowed to censor as much as they please. That's part of having free speech.
TeenReason. Gotta love that.
A great sign of the progress shaped by the liberal-libertarian mainstream is that right-wing bigots are increasingly left to trying to preserve safe spaces and special privilege for conservative intolerance (especially when rooted in superstition) in modern America.
As the treatment of successive waves of bigotry (often related to nationality, religion, skin color, and immigration) demonstrates, the bigots don't win in America, not over time. In this case, the bigots who imposed their bigotry on others and ruled American society for many years -- when the racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and gay-bashing were open, common, and casual -- no longer want to be known as bigots, at least not in public. Our vestigial right-wing bigots now beg 'we know most of America is disgusted by us, but please let us carve out special treatment that forces society to accept our bigoted conduct.'
Nobody read that.
SOME of us ARE capable of reading more than 3 words at a time, and SOME of us DID read that! Your tin-foil hat is FAILING you, Vulgarly Inanely-Insane MadPerson, you! Your tin-foil hat needs re-calibrated before you declare "anyone" or "no-one" categoricals, Oh Overweeningly Arrogant One!
You shouldn’t read Kirkland’s post mostly because he’s an insane bigot. Same reason to avoid Misek.
And sqrlsy.
ᛋᛋqrlsy.
Kirkland, Misek, and SQRLSY should get a room for some down-low neo-Nazi-on-neo-Nazi action.
Libertarians want fewer reguiations, fewer laws, and more resolution of conflicts in civil courts.
But apparently, in the topsy-turvy world of “Reason libertarianism”, regulations such as Section 230 are good because they exempt big corporations from civil liability.
Reason-style libertarianism is all about handing out special favors to special groups: immunity from prosecution for illegal migrants, for certain big corporations, for drug users, etc.
It’s only the rest of us who get punished severely if we mess up on our taxes, say something nasty to/about a politician, move money abroad without declaring it, don’t carry a proper driver’s license, etc.
No matter HOW many times you tell your “Big Lie”, it is NOT true! You’re part of the mob, aren’t you, gangster? For a small fee, you tell small businesses that you will “protect” them… From you and your mob! Refute the below, ye greedy authoritarian who wants to shit all over the concept of private property!
Look, I’ll make it pretty simple for simpletons. A prime argument of enemies of Section 230 is, since the government does such a HUGE favor for owners of web sites, by PROTECTING web site owners from being sued (in the courts of Government Almighty) as a “publisher”, then this is an unfair treatment of web site owners! Who SHOULD (lacking “unfair” section 230 provisions) be able to get SUED for the writings of OTHER PEOPLE! And punished by Government Almighty, for disobeying any and all decrees from Government Almighty’s courts, after getting sued!
In a nutshell: Government Almighty should be able to boss around your uses of your web site, because, after all, Government Almighty is “protecting” you… From Government Almighty!!!
Wow, just THINK of what we could do with this logic! Government Almighty is “protecting” you from getting sued in matters concerning who you chose to date or marry… In matters concerning what line of work you chose… What you eat and drink… What you read… What you think… Therefore, Government Almighty should be able to boss you around on ALL of these matters, and more! The only limits are the imaginations and power-lusts of politicians!
In your rants, you seem to have trouble distinguishing civil and criminal liability, and you seem to be confusing libertarians and anarchists.
Like many faux libertarians, you seem to just want a communist utopia, in which everybody naturally does the right thing and no other entity constrains your ability to act. Well, that's not libertarianism. In fact, it is closest to the delusional dreams of communists.
(Your rhetoric is certainly closest to that of the Nazis; they also accused others of "the Big Lie".)
You refuted NONE of my FACTS and totally FACTUAL comparisons here!
All your "facts" have been refuted.
You just "fascistically" refuse to even acknowledge that.
If reason came in and edited my posts even though they don’t violate the ToS, but don’t edit Kirkland’s post (which are often violent and bigoted), they are explicitly endorsing Kirkland.
They don’t then get to pretend that they are just an open forum for debate.
It’s pretty simple: if you don’t want to get sued for what a third party said, don’t edit some 3rd parties content and not others (unless it is straight illegal stuff like posting certain links as Buttplug 2 allegedly did).
The above is wise advice. "Devil is in the details" though, at the definition of "edit". If I AMEND your post with a LABELLED "Editor's comment", have I "edited" your comment? I say no! Some whining cry-babies say yes!
Section 230 is not a shield. It's not a carve out. It does nothing to "protect" anyone. I don't know where this lie comes from. It assigns liability for actions to the persons who did the action. Section 230 is not a blank check to write whatever the fuck you want on the internet anymore than the 1st amendment is a blank check to say whatever the fuck you want with words (it is not unlimited). Instructing people to commit crimes is illegal. Posting demonstrably false information with the intent to harm someone's reputation is illegal. Posting the entire unaltered text of Katie Price's Being Jordan is illegal. But the person responsible for these wrongs is the poster, not the platform. That is what Section 230 clarifies.
Censorship is totalitarianism. It occurs in secret. It’s insidious. It doesn’t belong in a free civilization.
If some speech is harmful, like lying, criminalize it, so we can all understand why and argue when it is unreasonable.
If you don’t like to be faced with reality, truth, that’s alway your problem.
How is your Fuhrer today? You guys kill my Jews today?
Based on discussions with him, Misek thinks no Jews were killed. According to him, six million Jews apparently emigrated to Kraplakistan, after cleverly taking Palestine away from the Arabs but not actually moving there. The post office in Kraplakistan apparently isn’t very good, so they haven’t been able to get in touch with their relatives to let them know that they are alright yet. Apparently, even the dozens of Holocaust survivors and relatives I have personally met are all in on one big conspiracy, including all getting matching tattoos! That’s what Misek actually believes. I’m not sure whether one should be angry or sad about people like him.
“According to him, six million Jews apparently emigrated to Kraplakistan“
That’s a lie. You can’t prove what you claim nor refute what you deny because you’re a bigot. You admitted it.
Lying and bigotry is what you wastes of skin have in common who falsely claim your bogeyman story to raise money or pity.
Here is once again proof of what I claim. Something you lying bigots can never provide.
“NOYB2
February.7.2022 at 8:05 pm
Yes, I am indeed quite bigoted “
http://reason.com/video/2022/02/02/neil-young-vs-joe-rogan-free-speech-wins/?comments=true#comments
We're both bigots: you are not going to change your mind on Holocaust denial, and I'm not going to change my mind on the fact that the Holocaust happened. That's all bigotry means: an obstinate dedication to a belief.
You've made a bunch of claims about the Holocaust, about Zyklon B, and about Jewish emigration. I have pointed to sources that I believe refute all of them. It's been a useful exercise to see what your arguments are. If anybody reads our discussion, they can judge for themselves. I'm under no illusion about whether you are going to change your mind.
If you think I "lied" somewhere, you're welcome to point out my "lie".
You can’t provide any proof that I ever said what you claimed I did. That demonstrated one of your lies.
You claimed that zyklon b thrown into a low vent in a large cold drafty room crowded with hundreds of people would evaporate and circulate to kill them all in under 20 minutes as per the necessary holocaust narrative. I said that would be impossible due to formulation of the chemical ,environmental conditions, body fluids, no air circulation and drafty conditions. It’s simply a matter of physics. You never refuted any of the physics.
I also said it’s not up to me to demonstrate where the Jews you claim are missing went to refute the holocaust. That’s irrelevant unless you can. I need only refute any claims that are part of the story to refute the story. Which I have done.
You lied here about what I’ve said and you admitted that you are a bigot. That means you won’t consider evidence that refutes your argument.
You are a demonstrated lying bigot.
If you ever refute anything I say with logic and science and I don’t either refute it or accept it, then you can call me a bigot like you already are.
But you haven’t and I doubt you ever will.
Go to your dictionary and look up "sarcasm".
Frankly, I have no idea what you think happened to the six million Jews that the Nazis slaughtered. You have actually never stated a coherent hypothesis.
(1) "The Holocaust narrative" is that Nazis murdered six million Jews. Clearly, many of those six millions were not killed in gas chambers for the simple reason that we know that the Nazis starved them, worked them to death, or shot them.
(2) What makes you think the gas chambers were "cold and drafty"? The gas chambers were next to the crematoria, had no windows, and had only small openings in the ceilings, so they were neither cold nor drafty. In addition, the hundreds of bodies crammed into them provide ten thousands of watts of heating and cubic meters per minute of air circulation. And even if heating/circulation was needed, guards could have used portable heaters and fans. You can examine the gas chambers yourself in high resolution VR. I provided a link to you before.
(3) You erroneously believe that there is something like a "gassing point" (your words). There is no such thing; hydrogen cyanide (like water) evaporates at all temperatures. Furthermore, since it was clearly not delivered in liquid form into the gas chambers, there is no heat of vaporization either and the boiling point is irrelevant. In fact, it was delivered adsorbed to a solid inside the core of wire cages lowered in from the ceiling, facilitating spread and avoiding contact with the floor or people.
I keep doing it and you keep ignoring it.
I'm afraid if you want to convince other people of your point of view, that is indeed up to you.
You are a demonstrated liar and self confessed bigot. I’m not.
That aside, you did try to demonstrate that the holocaust story of gassing Jews with HCN from zyklon b is plausible.
I have and will demonstrate again using logic and science that the story isn’t plausible.
In the lie, three different ways to use zyklon b have been incorrectly mashed together. I separate them.
HCN in Zyklon b which boils at 25c gassing off, will evaporate releasing HCN at lower rates with decreased temperature and increased humidity. As a gas, it is explosive.
The first way it is used is to fumigate buildings. Windows are closed and the pellets are spread evenly across the floor, the doors closed and left for days. To allow the HCN to slowly evaporate and diffuse int the air circulating naturally. After the required 48-72 hours the building must be carefully aired out. In ppe opening the doors and far windows first. After an hour or two the building is safe to enter.
Other than throwing the Zyklon b onto the floor, this method is not what is described as the holocaust and would take far too long.
Another method of using zyklon b in prison camps was in small fumigation gas chambers designed to delouse clothing. Different camps had slight modifications in design but they were all air tight without natural venting had racks for clothing and specifically designed equipment to heat the pellets above 25c and circulate the HCN throughout the gas chamber. Once complete another fan would exhaust the HCN from the chamber to make the clothing safe for removal.
Although these proper gas chambers are also identified as homicidal and often photographed, they are too small, contain breakable equipment and were never described by any “survivors” and could not support the holocaust story. These are the only real gas chambers in prison camps and their sole purpose was to save lives.
The story told as the holocaust described many different types of buildings or rooms some with windows, sliding doors, side or roof natural air vents with no heaters or fans or otherwise equipment. The story states the buildings were first filled with people, then pellets were thrown in natural air vents or windows and the people would all be dead in less than 20 minutes at which time people immediately entered to drag out the bodies.
The pellets would have landed in a pile not far from the vent onto a cold wet floor in winter. People would have kicked them into a corner away from he vent and door where drafts would have supplied fresh air. It would have taken many hours to kill everyone and then much longer to let a windowless room naturally vent until it was safe to enter to remove bodies which would have been bright pink in colour although “eyewitnesses” said the bodies were blue green. and be contaminated with wet HCN residue toxic to touch
The entire process taking many hours, not 20 min and not plausible for supporting the holocaust story.
There it is, how zyklon b was used and how it wasn’t. No longer mashed together in a ridiculous lie. An no less illegal to share in every nation where the lie was alleged to have occurred.
The main gas chambers at Auschwitz are well studied and documented, and they are nothing like what you say:
So, the gas chambers were heated, airtight, and designed for the mass destruction of human beings with typical German efficiency. The Nazi architectural drawings, photographs, and witness statements are consistent.
As I have already explained to you, the boiling point of hydrogen cyanide is irrelevant since they hydrogen cyanide was not delivered in liquid form. It was released from the Zyklon B directly in gaseous form. The Zyklon B could also be pre-warmed to speed release even further.
The lower explosive limit for hydrogen cyanide in air is 56000 ppm; the lethal dose is about 100-200 ppm for a human being, so there is no risk of explosion at the doses used in gas chambers (nor was there any ignition source in the gas chambers anyway).
They didn't let it vent naturally in the large gas chambers. Furthermore, they could use gas masks for the removal of bodies when necessary.
You're confusing carbon monoxide poisoning with hydrogen cyanide poisoning.
At the lethal dose of a few hundred ppm, hydrogen cyanide would not condense out of the air and wouldn't leave any residue. In addition, the bodies would have been still at above 36C, given that death was recent. Since victims were naked, there was no place the gas could get trapped either.
So, again, your understanding of chemistry and physics is just wrong.
Obviously you are the one who is confused. Decriminalizing the evidence that refutes the holocaust would help you.
The bright red coloration of the blood and bruised spots, caused by over-saturation of the blood with oxygen, since the blood can no longer give off its oxygen to the cells, are generally considered, among other things, symptomatic of hydrogen cyanide poisoning in fatal cases.Testimonies describing a blue or green coloration of the victims are therefore false.
Of course there were cremation ovens in crematoriums. But not in the morgue rooms in the basement which would be very cold and damp as the only alleged gas chambers besides the small air tight clothing fumigation gas chambers with equipment specifically designed to heat zyklon b pellets, circulate and exhaust hcn. The elevators between the morgue and crematorium big enough for only one body and one technician.
All are implausible human gas chambers.
Kremas II and III were mirror image installations consisting of several morgues and a crematory of 15 retorts each. The morgues were in the basement and the crematories on the ground floor. An elevator was utilized for corpse transport from the morgues to the crematory. The included drawings were generated from original blueprints obtained at the Auschwitz State Museum and observations made and measurements taken on location. Construction was of brick, mortar and concrete.
The investigated areas were the alleged gas chambers designated as morgue #1 on both drawings. As noted for Krema I, there was no ventilation, no heating system, no circulation system, no sealant inside or out and further, no doors on the morgues in Krema II. The area has been examined by the author and no evidence of doors or door frames has been found. This investigator could not make this determination for Krema III since portions of the structure are missing. Both structures had roofs of reinforced concrete without any apparent openings. Further, reports of hollow gas-carrying columns are not true. All the columns are solid, reinforced concrete exactly as indicated in the captured German plans. The roof vents are not gasketed. These facilities would be very dangerous if used as gas chambers and this use would probably result in the death of the users and an explosion when the gas reached the crematory. Each facility had a corpse elevator of 2.1 meters x 1.35 meters. Clearly, this elevator was large enough for only one (1) body and an attendant.
The alleged gas chamber in each of Kremas II and III had an area of 2500 sq. ft. Again, assume at least one week to vent (as at Krema I). This ventilation time is again doubtful, but will serve to compute our numbers.
Kremas IV and V were mirror image installations consisting of crematories of two furnaces with 4 retorts each and numerous rooms utilized as mortuaries, offices and storage. The interior rooms did not conform to the mirror image. Some of these rooms were allegedly used as gas chambers. It is impossible the buildings were razed long ago. No sealant was found anywhere on the foundation or floor. According to reports, Zyklon B gas pellets were allegedly thrown through wall ports which are now non-existent. if the plans of the building are correct, these facilities likewise were not gas chambers, for the same reasons iterated earlier for Kremas I, II, and III. Construction was apparently red brick and mortar with a concrete floor and no basement. It should be noted that the existence of cremation and execution facilities at Kremas IV and V is unsubstantiated.
It becomes, therefore, apparent that in the absence of a magical fan capable of instantly expelling a gas that is "difficult to ventilate, since it adheres strongly to surfaces," the "human slaughterhouse" called a "gas chamber" would have been inaccessible for nearly a full day. its walls, floors, ceiling would have retained portions of a gas which was highly poisonous to man. And what about the bodies? These cadavers could have been nothing less than saturated with the gas, just as the cushions, mattresses and blankets discussed in the same technical document on the use of Zyklon B would have been saturated also. These mattresses, etc., had to be taken out of doors to be aired and beaten for an hour under dry atmospheric conditions and for two hours when the weather was humid. When this was accomplished, these items were then heaped together and beaten again if the paper test revealed any further presence of hydrocyanic acid.
Hydrocyanic acid is both inflammable and explosive. How could it then have been used in close proximity to the entrance of crematory ovens? How could one have entered the "gas chamber" while smoking?
Holocaust denial isn't a crime in the US. You are free to post whatever evidence you have.
That would be true if all tissues in the body were saturated with hydrogen cyanide; death occurs long before that and at much lower concentrations, namely when the most sensitive tissues are deprived of oxygen. That's in contrast to carbon monoxide poisoning, where the carbon monoxide itself binds to the hemoglobin and colors it red.
Red or pinkish skin color occurs in hydrogen cyanide poisoning only after treatment with hydroxocobalamin. Presumably, the Nazis didn't administer such treatments.
Cite for those testimonies?
A 2500 sq ft gas chamber at 10 ft ceiling height is 25000 cubic feet. A single, portable commercial 110V fan can move that in less than two minutes. (And you can easily heat the same space with a single portable forced air propane heater; they come in up to 125000 BTU.)
I have no idea what makes you think that hydrogen cyanide "adheres strongly to surfaces"; it's a gas that's lighter than air. It escapes quickly. And it does not condense at lethal concentrations even at low temperatures.
And even if those things were concerns, workers could simply have worn gas masks and protective equipment, both of which were in wide use by the German military.
As I explained to you, the lower concentration limit for explosive mixtures of hydrogen cyanide in air is 56000 ppm; lethal concentrations are about 100-200 ppm. So, at lethal concentrations, hydrogen cyanide is not concentrated enough to be explosive.
Why in the world would a Nazi worker enter a gas chamber filled with hydrogen cyanide while smoking? They wouldn't cause an explosion, but the gas itself would kill them.
You are confused. Like I said.
But even though you admitted bigotry, you’re less bigoted than most.
Your persistence in argument demonstrates that you at least recognize the importance of logic and science to discern reality, truth.
There is therefore hope for you that you will one day recognize the evidence that refutes the holocaust objectively.
Overcoming that deeply ingrained brainwashing will open your mind to reality that you can’t perceive today.
A cherry red skin color that changes to dark may be present as the result of increased venous hemoglobin oxygen saturation. From Wiki. That occurs with severe cyanide poisoning, like when it’s fatal.
This is why Michal Kula’s statement about the color of gassing victims – “I saw then that they were greenish,” proves that he never saw what he claims he did, Kula changed his ridiculous stories as a “witness” many times.
HCN is both flammable and explosive. The concentrations during fumigation would have at times far exceeded the minimum requirements to kill people.
The operating phase during which cyanide was applied during the two-phase fumigation cycle was known as the Kreislauf phase. The point is that it would have been impossible to have any expertise at all in the use of cyanide and/or Zyklon-B without being well aware of the advantages of proper circulation for any application of this technology. How then could any would-be mass murderers have possibly been unaware of the need for circulation in their cyanide gas chambers for mass-murder? How could they have been oblivious to the significance of Kreislauf? And yet, they must have been oblivious – that is precisely what must have happened if one is to take the "Holocaust" literature at all seriously.
The abundance of Zyklon-B delousing chambers, even within concentration camps, is in itself a major problem for the accepted "Holocaust" story because here were well-designed pilot plants for committing mass-murder on a relatively small scale before attempting to kill on a massive scale; here were the ideal models to follow in order to construct scaled-up versions for mass-murder. Here was the proper technology for mass-murder with cyanide – but this technology, the delousing chamber technology, was supposedly never used for such a purpose.
More surprising is the fact that large, scaled-up versions of the small delousing chambers actually did exist in locations which were far more accessible than any of the so-called extermination camps. Those chambers employed the same circulatory principle and used Zyklon-B to fumigate railroad trains – but, those chambers were never used for mass-murder either.
Larger chambers for fumigating entire railroad trains existed throughout German-occupied Europe in about a dozen different locations including Cologne, Poznan (Posen), Potsdam, and Budapest.[20] They had become a standard feature of the railroad network in order to prevent the spread of typhus, particularly from Eastern Europe, where typhus had always been endemic.
The would-be murderers could have simply brought railroad cars filled with Jews into these large chambers, one or two cars at a time, killed the intended victims and then ventilated the cars within just a few hours. Each gassing, including venting of one or two railroad cars, would have still taken at least one-and-a-half hours – far longer than the half-hour which is all that was supposedly needed at Auschwitz according to Hoss and others.[21]
By using the railroad delousing tunnels, which ranged in size from about 400 cubic meters to as much as 1700 cubic meters, the mass-murderers would not have had to transport their intended victims halfway across Europe in the midst of a war in which Germany was desperately trying to conserve meager resources such as railroads and fuel.
From Wikipedia: A cherry red skin color that changes to dark may be present as the result of increased venous hemoglobin oxygen saturation. It isn't diagnostic, in that most victims don't have that sign. That's because death occurs at much lower doses than needed to change skin color.
They wouldn't have exceeded them 500 times, and that would have been needed to go from lethal to even possibly explosive.
And even if they did, there was nothing in the gas chambers to set off an explosion. People work in explosive gas mixtures every day; explosive gas mixtures don't explode spontaneously, they need something to set them off.
Fumigation and killing of naked humans in a gas chamber are two entirely different processes. Fumigation requires much higher concentrations, active air circulation, and much longer durations. Gas chambers require none of those because the victims breathe, are naked, and hydrogen cyanide is much more lethal to them than to insects.
I do. I'm a scientist. And I am telling you: your ideas and objections are scientifically wrong. The standard description of gas chambers and Zyklon B is consistent with what we know about chemistry and physics. So, it is crystal clear that the buildings at Auschwitz were well suited to the task of exterminating large numbers of victims in a few years. Your objections that they couldn't have served that function are objectively, scientifically wrong.
But, as I have pointed out before, it doesn't even matter by what method the Nazis killed millions of Jews and non-Jews, what matters is that under the Nazis, millions of people disappeared without a trace. Their possessions and property were taken by the Nazis; all of that is a matter of record by the Nazis themselves. The methods by which they ultimately disappeared do not change the political, moral, and legal responsibility of the Nazi regime.
The ONLY reason to lie about the method of mass murder, is because the claim of mass murder is a lie.
Not much for logic though.
Why do you think zee Germans didn’t use the drive thru train gas chambers they had plenty of?
Well, lucky then that they didn't lie.
First, Germans didn't kill indiscriminately, they used prisoners for forced labor before killing them. Furthermore, instead of 20 minutes to kill people, it would have taken a day or two. On top of that, if they killed prisoners on the trains, they'd end up with a train full of corpses wearing clothes and valuables that they would have had to manually sort through and then carry the corpses to the crematoria.
So, what they did instead is they shipped the prisoners to the concentration camps, separated the people who could work from those who couldn't and would be killed. Those destined to be killed undressed themselves, handed their possessions to the guards, and walked into the gas chambers believing they were showers. They died within 20 minutes since the gas chambers were designed to kill quickly. And all the guards had to do afterwards is move the bodies into the ovens. German efficiency, grizzly and disgusting as it is.
There is no science that supports the “witness” testimony.
In a cold damp basement morgue in winter, people crowded in first, zyklon pellets dossed in through a side vent, no fans, no heaters killing thousands, everyone in the room in 20 minutes, then all the bodies being immediately removed by shirtless witnesses who lived into their old age.
That is the “witnessed” story of the holocaust that is impossible.
“ So, what they did instead is they shipped the prisoners to the concentration camps, separated the people who could work from those who couldn't and would be killed.”
Well that’s just bullshit.
If that were true, why did so many Jewish children prisoners live?
As a “scientist” when you’re told that something undocumented just disappears, without a trace of physical evidence, like millions of Jews you believe did, what conclusions can you draw?
The issue is not the myriad of small platfroms. Its the monopolistic ones...
If you have like 10% of the population on your platform, but you restrict speech, you are a threat.
Condtion sec 230 immunity for the big boys on neutrality...
FTC is already defining facebook as a monopoly...make it easy to categorize big biys and then allow people to sue if they can be shown they are blocking content which is not legally "objectionable".
It's good to see that there is someone more idiotic than Bozo Billy Binion. Congrats Joe.
I’m half tempted to go back and read some of his older articles to see if he’s always been this bad. The last two articles of his have been complete trash.
Yes, exactly! Section 230, a part of the Communications Decency Act, is a government law designed to cause censorship, which it succeeded at.
Which is why anyone who has any pretense of being a libertarian wants Section 230 repealed.
It's baffling that you think that making companies liable for the content they publish will result in even more dangerous right-wing lies being published. Repeal that law and you change what the internet is fundamentally, and maybe that would be a good thing. But you won't have any more free speech. It probably wouldn't be anyone's business model to let you crap lies all over their property anymore.
Yes, if you are entirely ignorant of the state of the law before passage of Section 230, and don't have any idea what Section 230 actually did, you might think that repealing Section 230 would make interactive computer services liable for what they transmit.
If, however, you knew that Cubby, Inc. v. CompuServe Inc. established that an interactive computer service is not liable as a publisher if it does not exercise editorial control, while Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co. established that an interactive computer service is liable as a publisher if it exercises editorial control, you wouldn't be remotely baffled.
If Section 230 was simply and directly repealed, the law would revert to the 1995 state where liability immunity was contingent on refraining from moderation.
The result would be that huge platforms would have to refrain from moderating in order to preserve their immunity from liability. Platforms whose value-add is moderation will be prevented from getting huge by the expense of exercising tight control in an environment where they are liable for everything they spread. There would be exactly zero cases of huge platforms wielding massive and unaccountable power over content, because the economics of liability will make that an impossible situation.
I think we'd go back to testing those limits, as those cases conflicted, a conflict that was made moot by 230. Surely you get that 230 makes for the most liberalized of all the situations--no liability for content. So if you think companies are moderating too much, they are doing so even when they don't have to because of 230 protection.
But also, what most people are complaining about is that Twitter isn't allowing incitements to violence and insurrection, which is a legal liability that would exist in any case. Twitter allows all sorts of right-wing opinions on it along with a lot of other kookiness.
Any of the proposed changes to section 230 that I have seen would NOT affect the big boys. They would prevent competition by requiring moderation which only the big boys could afford.
Section 230 (or the Constitutional right to travel) predates both of those companies (and the automobile and airplane) by nearly a decade (century) and could not possibly have been drafted with either of them in mind. Sure.
'...the explicit intent of the law was to encourage platforms to moderate content...' Eh no. Compuserve survived a lawsuit that they published libel, because it did not moderate; prodigy lost a similar lawsuit because they moderated and were held responsible for letting defamation be published. Section 230 solved the Prodigy problem but created a loophole to let non elected dictators and fascists operate interstate companies and moderate free and protected speech out of American discourse. Section 230 made moderating Prodigy AND non moderating Compuserve EQUAL - neither could be sued regardless of moderation. So 230 was NEVER intended to encourage moderation at the expense of free and protected speech.
Um, yes, which is exactly how it encouraged moderation. Just as if you repealed all legal liability for, say, shoplifting, you would by that action encourage shoplifting.
Specifically, that's how it encouraged encourage moderation at the expense of free and protected speech, aka politically motivated censorship carried out by corporate cronies of the Democrats.
Section 230 solved the Prodigy problem but created a loophole to let non elected dictators and fascists operate interstate companies and moderate free and protected speech out of American discourse.
Am I a fascist if I will only give my bullhorn to people that will say things that I agree with? Or if I will only publish articles in my newspaper that I agree with? Why is the internet different?
There is nothing wrong with that.
What makes you a fascist is if you lobby one of the political parties for special exemptions from civil and criminal liability while doing propaganda and censorship for them.
Trump supporters would cut off their nose to spite their face? *yawh*
i have a simpler answer. if everyone who opposes censorship deleted their fakebook, twitter, instagram, tiktok, etc. accounts things would change quickly. i did so a year ago. when i suggest this to people they say "i need fakebook" to communicated with xxx. replace xxx with family, friends, whatever. people will just not step up and do the right thing.
Have you actually tried to delete your Facebook account? It's pretty much impossible.
What you can do is stop using it.
I'm not on FB and I can't delete the app from my phone! I was able to get it off my screen, at least.
Yeah I tried to delete my Facebook account which I haven't used in at least five years. Got into an endless loop of "getting back into Facebook". Finally gave up. I should probably take another shot at it one of these days.
"none of these are First Amendment violations, as private companies can allow or disallow any speech they please"
They are First Amendment violations when they occur in response to threats and pressures exerted by government officials and members of Congress. The record is pretty clear -- all of this social media censorship started AFTER Congress started holding hearings on the failure of social media companies to censor sufficiently.
"Section 230 predates both of those companies by nearly a decade"
Get your facts straight. Section 230 predates Google by only 3 years.
Get your facts straight. Section 230 predates Google by only 3 years.
Google was founded as a company in 1998. (The CDA was passed in 1996, it seems.) So, that is true. But Google did not become the behemoth that it is until at least a few years later. It's IPO was in 2004. I think that the author's point was that "Big Tech" wasn't behind the passage of Section 230, as the companies that currently make up Big Tech either didn't exist or weren't that big until quite a bit later. Correct me if I'm wrong on which companies lobbied for Section 230 if you have that information.
They are First Amendment violations when they occur in response to threats and pressures exerted by government officials and members of Congress.
That's debatable, since you would need to show that the companies bowed specifically to pressure from government as opposed to public opinion more broadly. Those companies need to please their users and advertisers, after all. I agree, though, as I note below, that government should not be pressuring companies to moderate beyond what is illegal, let alone mandating it through law.
Lookie, lookie, we at Reason found an example of someone from the Right doing what everyone on the Left does! Yay! Now we can say "Both sides are equally bad!" while we masturbate!
....
reason has been against zoning since I've been reading it. Here's an article I encountered in the late 1970s.
https://reason.com/1978/02/01/houston-defies-the-planners-an/
Posted to wrong article. Delete, if possible.
Yes; Section 230 was good legislation even if it protects Nazi censorship ability from private companies that act as Nazi indoctrination camps.
One has to ask; If Nazi indoctrination is allowed under Section 230; what do you think would happen if Section 230 was repealed and the Nazi-Regime could start going from "allowing" to actually "demanding" Nazi indoctrination by law.
The Nazi Indoctrination camps of the USA need to be handled by a CANCEL POWER direction; adding power isn't going to head the Power-Mad in the right direction. Never has; never will.
Before the internet there was no easy way to find out that fascism and Positive Christian National Socialism and The Republican Party are the same thing. The truth seeps out through non-newspaper media that cannot be controlled like the "most useful dog" described by George Orwell.
....Right; because the Republican Party carries all the proudly self-identifying National Socialist politicians.
UR F'EN RETARDED...
If a group of atheists crashed a church sermon in order to try to convince the congregation to renounce their faith, the pastor would be perfectly within his rights to have them removed. Frederick is making the case that if the exact same interaction took place in the comments section of the church's website, the church would have to leave that content up.
This right here was the intention behind Section 230 and why some version of it needs to exist. The owner of an internet forum where users can post has to be able to maintain that forum in a manner they choose. I'd be open to some mechanism that might hold the forum accountable for applying its terms of service evenly, but the forum has to be able to moderate what users post beyond simply blocking things that are illegal. The users themselves might not want a truly open "free speech zone" where anyone can say anything. The forum owner has to be able to cater to its desired user base.
The flip side of this, however, is that government should never tell a forum that it must moderate beyond content that is illegal. As much as I am against misinformation and disinformation that brings harm to people that believe it, racism, sexism, or homophobia, etc., the government should not be pressuring social media platforms to block what the government says is false or racist or whatever.
Though I am not a libertarian, what I have said seems to me to be exactly what libertarian ideals would demand. If am wrong, please explain how.
Internet forums used to exist on distributed systems like USENET, personal web sites, web hosting, etc. That is, nobody "owned" them and nobody could censor them.
Google, Facebook, Twitter, Blogger, Medium, and a few other companies changed that: they created a tidy oligopoly of big publishers that enriches itself at the expense of content creators, while destroying the prior communities and infrastructure. And the maintenance of that oligopoly and business model requires Section 230.
Hopefully, repeal of Section 230 will destroy the business model of this oligopoly. There are plenty of decentralized social platforms capable of taking over immediately, including Mastodon and systems like it.
Libertarian ideals demand that you are responsible for your actions. The guilt or innocence of a content hosting company like Facebook is to be determined in court on a case by case basis, not via a blanket exemption in Section 230.
Furthermore, the ideal libertarian outcome (and the free market outcome) for publishing and social platforms is small, distributed, decentralized platforms, not government-supported oligopolies.
" to be determined in court on a case by case basis"
...
"not government-supported oligopolies."
But what are the courts if nor government oligopolies? Clogging the courts with frivolous lawsuits is a victory for lawyers and their bank accounts, not free speech.
In our current society, courts aren't "oligopolies" because they aren't participants in any market.
Why would courts be clogged with frivolous lawsuits if Section 230 is abolished?
The absurd cost of legal proceedings in the US is, of course, a concern. But the solution to that is not to keep granting exemptions from lawsuits to corporate cronies, the solution to that is to revoke the special status of institutions like the ABA and the cartel on legal education and services.
Internet forums used to exist on distributed systems like USENET, personal web sites, web hosting, etc. That is, nobody "owned" them and nobody could censor them.
I never did USENET, so I don't really know the technical details of how that worked, but certainly all forums that are reached through the web and modern social media platforms have an owner. That is, they have one person or company that set up the forum and could take it down when they chose to do so. The comments we are making right now are certainly on a forum with an owner.
Hopefully, repeal of Section 230 will destroy the business model of this oligopoly. There are plenty of decentralized social platforms capable of taking over immediately, including Mastodon and systems like it.
How would repealing Section 230 affect smaller forums and businesses, such as these comments? In your zeal to reign in big tech, will there be collateral damage?
Libertarian ideals demand that you are responsible for your actions. The guilt or innocence of a content hosting company like Facebook is to be determined in court on a case by case basis, not via a blanket exemption in Section 230.
And what companies would be best situated to deal with those legal cases? Don't you think that larger companies would have an advantage there, whereas smaller ones would find defending from potential lawsuits prohibitively expensive?
A small manufacturer can sometimes compete with larger ones despite liability potential because product liability law is detailed and settled enough to be predictable. A small business owner can still figure out how to make a safe product that wouldn't expose them to liability, even if a larger company might have more resources to do so and to defend themselves from lawsuits. The whole point of Section 230 is that hosting a forum on the internet puts the host in a legal no man's land. A print publisher knows exactly what liability they would have for what they print, and they have complete control over everything that is printed before it is printed. People hosting live video or radio communications may not know what people will say ahead of time, but they can at least control who gets access to the camera and microphone and can choose how to respond if someone says or does something live on air that might be legally problematic.
User posted content online is not like any of that. Especially when you get to the size and scope of having thousands or many millions of posts a day. Does existing law, if Section 230 was simply repealed, have any way to reasonably deal with the legal liability of internet forums if a user posts something defamatory, a video urging kids to try the "Tide pod challenge", uses social media to harass and stalk someone, or any number of things that might bring a lawsuit against the host if they choose to moderate?
If moderating makes them 'publishers' that would then make them liable for anything a user posted, but they wouldn't be if they let people post virtually anything not illegal, then there is no middle ground at all for the church in the example from the article I quoted to maintain a forum where they could delete and block atheists from denigrating their faith. There would be no way for a forum that wanted to keep it rated PG to moderate posts and content for profanity or nudity or violence.
That is the core of what I am getting at. Stop focusing only on the evils of Big Tech and think about how what you propose would affect the rest of the internet.
Yes, and that is no accident: it's the result of lobbying, subsidies, and government policy. It is bad. It is destructive of freedom of expression. So when you say that eliminating Section 230 threatens that kind of publishing model, I say: that's the point.
They would hopefully stop hosting discussion forums themselves. But from a user's point of view, little would change. Let's take the Reason discussion section as an example. You'd still go to the Reason web site, you'd still see a comment section, and you'd still be able to have discussions.
But the individual comments wouldn't be hosted by Reason, stored on Reason servers, or be under Reason's control. Reason would have no legal responsibility for them. Instead, they would be stored on a distributed social network. The legal liability and ownership of the comments stays with the people who originally made them. And you as a reader decide which comment sources you want to see and which ones you don't want to see.
These aren't new ideas or new technologies. The reason we don't get them is because publishers lobby the government to keep the current arrangement, and because government likes the indirect control and censorship it can exercise by having a small number of big gatekeepers.
I think you just don't understand what a technical and legal absurdity discussion forums like these, attached to a site like Reason, are. The sooner we can get rid of them, the better.