The Canadian Truckers Have a Point About Border Security Theater
Plus: National debt tops $30 trilion, Whoopi Goldberg suspended over Holocaust comments, and more...
A convoy of Canadian truckers has been protesting a border-crossing trucker vaccine mandate. As of January 15, truckers entering the country have had to show proof of vaccine status. Unvaccinated foreign truckers aren't allowed to enter the country, while unvaccinated Canadian truckers re-entering the country after a U.S. delivery are subject to testing and a 14-day quarantine.
This bit of security theater (truckers don't have to be vaccinated while driving within Canada, so why upon entering? And why single out truckers over other types of workers?) hasn't gone over so well. One response has been a massive "freedom convoy" of truckers driving to Canada's capital city, Ottawa, in protest. Reports place the number of trucks in the dozens to the hundreds and the number of protesters in the thousands. (Alaskan truckers have also held their own protest in solidarity.)
The protests have been peaceful and largely without incident—which makes reactions to them from media outlets and Canadian leaders especially odd. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and other leaders, along with press in and outside of Canada, have been keen to condemn the protesters as a whole based on reports of a few distasteful antics.
"Canadians were shocked and frankly disgusted by the behavior displayed by some people protesting in our nation's capital," Trudeau said on Monday, making a point of saying that these protests were not like the Black Lives Matter protests he supported.
Trudeau accused protesters of "steal[ing] food from the homeless," in addition to "hurl[ing] insults and abuse at small business workers," flying "racist flags," engaging in "vandalism," "dishonor[ing] the memory of our veterans," and using "hateful rhetoric."
All of these accusations seem to stem from—and be quite the exaggerated take on—a few isolated incidents. (It's almost as if people would prefer to address these outliers than the substance of the protests…)
The claims of "vandalism" and dishonoring veterans seem to stem from the fact that one woman reportedly danced on the tomb of the unknown soldier, a few people allegedly peed at the National War Memorial, and a flag held by a statue of Terry Fox was turned upside down while a sign saying "mandate freedom" was placed in the statue's hands. (Protesters were also slagged for parking on part of the war memorial, though Ottawa police say they moved when asked.)
And this #FreedomRally #freedomconvoy22 pic.twitter.com/ahpt7TqSXQ
— Jorge (@jmacontext) January 29, 2022
The claim of stealing from the homeless comes after an Ottawa soup kitchen said several protesters "harassed" its staff for meals. (It also reported that protesters assaulted someone seeking services and threatened a security guard.)
And the claim of hateful and racist rhetoric seems to come from several swastikas spotted in one crowd of protesters.
Now, maybe there really were random neo-Nazis joining in the protests, though it's easy to imagine the swastikas was meant not as support for Nazis but as an absurdly hyperbolic but all-too-common point about the people passing vaccine mandates.
Besides, it's unclear that any of this stuff was done by protesting truckers and not other groups or individuals who had joined in the protests or just wanted to cause mayhem.
Regardless, it's never really fair to tar entire protest movements based on the antics of a few people—something folks on the left should know well. During protests for racial justice and police abuse, violent behavior and vandalism by a few has frequently been used by opponents to slam the whole movement. It was dumb then, and it's dumb now.
See also:
- "Why Canada's trucker protest is inflaming its national anxieties"
- "Foreign Truckers Must Be Vaccinated to Enter US Starting Jan. 22"
FREE MINDS
Whoopi Goldberg suspended from The View over Holocaust comments. The actress made some ignorant but certainly not malicious claims about the Holocaust, and is now being excoriated for them. Goldberg claimed the Holocaust was about "man's inhumanity to man" and "not about race," saying it involved "two white groups of people." ABC News president Kim Godwin said Goldberg was being suspended for "her wrong and hurtful comments." And because nothing these days can be just a dumb mistake, others are accusing her of helping fascists.
FREE MARKETS
Breaking News: The U.S. national debt topped $30 trillion, years ahead of schedule, as pandemic spending fueled government borrowing. https://t.co/6yUwsPvi1P
— The New York Times (@nytimes) February 1, 2022
QUICK HITS
• An HIV vaccine is now starting human trials.
• "Pfizer and BioNTech said Tuesday that they were seeking emergency-use authorization for the first coronavirus vaccine for children younger than 5 and have begun submitting data on the safety and efficacy of the first two doses of a planned three-dose regimen," reports The Washington Post.
• Here's a list of 50 books Texas parents are trying to ban.
• "New legislation being rushed through the House has massive privacy and other problems for small sellers," says the R Street Institute's Wayne Brough.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
One response has been a massive “freedom convoy” of truckers driving to Canada’s capital city, Ottawa, in protest.
Their haul? FASCISM
The establishment response to middle class protest is so over the top because that is the group that are supposed to stay quiet, obey laws, and pay taxes.
If that should change, then anything is possible, explaining Trudeau’s panicked flight.
Inner Party freaks out when Outer Party revolts – only the Proles have the privilege.
I have just received $18000 of my last month working and i was doing this in my part time online. (re90) i joined this 4 months before and i know how easy this job is to make money online.
Join now from this website below.==-==>> http://moneystar33.blogspot.com/
Today i am going to show you that how to earns more than $500 every day simply working and staying at home. Last month my earning from this are $16205 and i gave this job only 2 hours from my whole day. Easiest way to earn more income online and it doesn’t needs any kind of special experience. Go to this website right now and follow details to get started right now.
🙂 AND GOOD LUCK.:)
HERE====)>https://www.easywork2.com
…making a point of saying that these protests were not like the Black Lives Matter protests he supported.
Oof, eh?
Blackface Matters.
That was a serious own-goal. Let’s bring up the BLM protests and remind everybody that the police KNEELED IN FRONT OF THEM.
What a bunch of hosers.
He has a point. Nobody died, no buildings burned. Let me guess, no looting, either. Way too passive to be a “mostly peaceful protest”.
Feelings might have been hurt though.
Hey ENB how about a link to mat welshes bombshell discovery that the media is biased towards democrats
I laughed at that blog post too = Matt Welch
“Regardless, it’s never really fair to tar entire protest movements based on the antics of a few people—something folks on the left should know well.”
I’d wait for the truckers to do 30 million dollars in property damage and have 20+ people killed before you start comparing one with the other.
What a dumb “both sides” quip for her.
Blm riots were in the billions. Not millions.
https://www.westernjournal.com/blms-mostly-peaceful-riots-cost-1000x-damage-jan-6-capitol-unrest/
I’m waiting to see if the Truckers are treated the same way the Wall of Moms was….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbrnypHWSEs
Why would the hiv vaccine need human trials just grat an eua and force everyone to take it
DON’T THEY CARE ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!
Children that live near SPBP should consider taking it.
Heh, heh heh, they said titular.
Whoops! = Whoopi making her inartful comments
With a family name of Goldberg, she must be one of those self-hating Jews
Nah, she is just a progtard. She lacks the intelligence to know better.
To be fair, she is a wet brain drunk.
However, tough shit Whoopi. Live by the sword, die by the sword, you butt licking Team Blue toady.
Now the next time one of the other harpies say something stupid, they can accuse the shows producers for being racist if they don’t fire them.
But long time Internet Denizens will be pleased to note that Godwin came out of the woodwork to personally bitchslap Whoopi over this.
“Effective immediately,” ABC President Kim Godwin said Tuesday evening in a public statement, “I am suspending Whoopi Goldberg for two weeks for her wrong and hurtful comments [about the Holocaust].”
😉
Haha, nice catch.
Not her real name. Cultural appropriation.
It’s her stage name. Her real name is Caryn Johnson.
Her remarks show just what a terrible job teachers have done 8mparting hstory and further underscores that unless they cite their homework, celebrities aren’t authorities on anything!
The Nazis made it abundantly clear that they regarded Jews as a permanent identity of a “race.” And although the Nazis did cite Christian and Islamic Anti-Semitism in their propaganda, the deeds of the Nazis demonstrated that–unlike “Marrano” Jews under the Spanish Inquisition and other Jews in Christendom and the Islamic Caliphates–Jews could not “convert” their way out of being looted, disarmed, rounded up, ghettoized, enslaved, tortured, and murdered.
ABC is not engaged in “cancel culture” by suspending Whoopi Goldberg. They are engaged in brand protection and damage control in the face of a ignoramous spreading her ignorance as some kind of pop culture historical writ.
“They are engaged in brand protection…”
Yes, this! “Race” is defined as black v/s white, and that is ALL that we are authorized to get apoplectic about!!!
PS, if you are NOT properly BLACK, then you are WHITE!!! Hispanics, Jews, Asians, Australian aborigines, Martians, Venusians, Lizard People… They are all honorary whites! If you’re not with us, you’re against us!
Whoopi’s remarks were literally true and out of date. “Race” used to have a different meaning. People spoke of the English race, the French race, the Irish race, and even northern and southern Americans as different races. In that respect, to Churchill and his contemporaries, including Hitler, the Jews were a race as distinct as the English and Germans, and even the somewhat made-up even by the times Aryan race.
What Whoopi somehow missed was that bigotry is bigotry. Whether by Hitler’s old-fashioned definition or the modern white-black-brown-yellow-red definition or any other definition, bigotry is based on irrelevant characteristics, and nothing more. But to admit that would be to undermine wokism and affirmative action and everything else vital to modern politics.
Has Whoopie ever questioned how bigoted The View is for its gender bias? No? Is it acceptable because that is its schtick, its gimmick? How would she feel about a male-only version, or a black-only version, or a white-only version?
How would she feel about a male-only version, or a black-only version, or a white-only version?
——–
PLEASE GOD NO
“Her remarks show just what a terrible job teachers have done”
No, they show what a GOOD job teachers have done in spreading a crypto-marxist ideology among kids. Notice that the ADL- the fucking Jewish Anti Defamation League- just changed their definition of racism to essentially, “the oppression of POC by white power structures.”
Marxism never really took off in the United States, because the whole critique of class-struggle didn’t really work when the entire American Dream had a “Rags to Riches” narrative. They needed a different way to pit the people against one another. America’s civil war and Jim Crow years were a perfect foundation to build this, and we are seeing this virulent ideology- the fusion of marxism and american racial politics- exploding from the campus into mainstream America.
Marxism had to deal with lower class people who were nevertheless finding success in a capitalist society as small business owners, entrepreneurs ant the like. Likewise our new Marxist-Racial ideology needs to deal with minority groups who defy the predictions of CRT and thrive despite the “White Power Structures” and obvious cases of racism. And so, just as Marx classified the working rich as the Petit Bourgeoise, CRT is now rendering Jews and Asians to “just another white people”.
This isn’t about Racism or success, or any of that other crap. It is about foisting Marxism on the country.
And it is working very very well, unfortunately.
I am not inclined to interrupt someone on an excellent rant on the Marxist propaganda littered throughout our educational system, but her remarks may not say anything about teachers, considering that she dropped out of high school in Manhattan in the early 70s and moved to CA.
It says a lot about how Marxist ideology is spread among the semi-educated, particularly among the rich and famous. I think it is part of their coaching, something about being relatable.
Funny to see Sean Penn stepping on his dick again. I think people have forgotten that stunt he pulled with Saddam Hussein.
Yeah I meant to include something in there about how it has now spilled out into community spread. This was once a uniquely academic thing, but now it is knocking over institutions left and right. Goldberg’s rant was completely the product of these terrible, racist crypto-marxist ideologies becoming mainstream. She didn’t get that idea about “white guys beating on each other” from deep philosophical research- she concluded this the same way her former cohost Rosie O’Donnel became a 9/11 truther- she lives in a bubble where politically convenient narratives never get challenged.
Don’t dilute my brand!
Only “Black Lives Matter”… “All Lives Matter” is politically incorrect as all git-out! MANY “important people” have been chastised or fired for saying “All Lives Matter”, or similar things. So then logically ONLY “Black Lives Matter”, and all others can take a hike!
Victims v/s victimizers (politically, verbally, at least) have traded places! All for just about NOTHING, since ALL black, white, and green, etc., people in the USA STILL need special permission to blow on a cheap plastic flute! We are ALL being played for infantile fools!
To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!
Unfortunately, Whoopi’s comments align rather well with the Jewish Antidefamation League’s recently published redefinition of racism being something that white people do to people of color.
It is not inartful, it is intersectional ideology.
Trudeau accused protesters of “steal[ing] food from the homeless,” in addition to “hurl[ing] insults and abuse at small business workers,” flying “racist flags,” engaging in “vandalism,” “dishonor[ing] the memory of our veterans,” and using “hateful rhetoric.”
Sounds like a bunch of hosers.
Was PM Zoolander just adlibbing this?
Sounds more like a standard playbook.
Let’s make a note that when progtards say this sort of thing the evidence is anicdotal, when people say this is what happens at progtard riots the evidence is video
Besides, it’s unclear that any of this stuff was done by protesting truckers and not other groups or individuals who had joined in the protests or just wanted to cause mayhem.
HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ANTIFA
What’s the Canadian version of the FBI?
RCMP and CSIS
Do they also like to go undercover at protests and start violence?
Absolutely!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_the_Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police#RCMP_bombing_in_Alberta,_scapegoating_farmer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_the_Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police#Break-ins_and_bombing
What’s the Canadian version of the FBI?
The FB-Eh?
Goldberg claimed the Holocaust was about “man’s inhumanity to man” and “not about race,” saying it involved “two white groups of people.”
Whoopie knows Jews aren’t white.
Q: What is black and white, Jewish, and has two eyes?
A: Sammy Davis, Jr. and Moshe Dayan.
You ment to say 3 eyes didnt you
That’s right. Moshe did wear glasses as well, though he did see well enough to help destroy several Arab militaries, so there’s the real punch line. 🙂
The rat pack went golfing fank asks Sammy what’s your handicap, Sammy says I’m a one eyed black jew.
And short:
Sammy Davis Jr. vs. Wilt Chamberlain | Rowan & Martin’s Laugh-In | George Schlatter comedy
https://youtu.be/XML_ypskMjA
That joke was in yes I can, Sammy Davis Jr autobiography. He sid it was one of his favorite jokes about himself
Schvartze Goyim are natural anti-Semites.
More news at 11…
Trudeau accused protesters of … using “hateful rhetoric.”
Well, at least they’re not “spreading misinformation”.
That was Joe Rogan (this week). Next week, it will be someone else.
Funny how it is never Fauci doing so, isn’t it? Just doctors who have actually worked in medicine and not government for the last few decades.
It is very….peculiar. I agree, damikesc.
Breaking News: The U.S. national debt topped $30 trillion, years ahead of schedule, as pandemic spending fueled government borrowing.
Thank goodness I can’t conceive of that many zeroes or I might be concerned.
Time for the Nuevo Dollar so you *can* so conceive. 8-(
An HIV vaccine is now starting human trials.
TAKE IT NOW OR LOSE YOUR JOB
Is it a vaccine vaccine or a “vaccine” vaccine?
Does it prevent you from getting AIDS or just keep you out of the hospital when you get AIDS?
I was promised I could go back to having unprotected anal sex with as many junkies as possible. As long as I wear a mask.
indeed, Mike…Only if masks are your kink. 🙂
Don’t know what Derp wrote because I have him muted, but I don’t see where I said anything about masks.
Hahahahaha!
Dee’s a fucking idiot!
He is sure that the people calling him a ‘much stupider Donkey Hotay whose horse only turns left’ are using a racial slur but is unable to find it with a Google search.
Lol.
I wonder when Mike’s going to realize that imagining what muted people say, just makes him look like an even bigger idiot.
You’re right. My mistake…But if masks are still your kink, the wisdom applies. 🙂
Hopefully the first, but either outcome would be good, no?
Whoosh! (Again)
The small percentage that die from the vaccine never get HIV.
I was thinking that too…for many friends.
Which is which?
“An HIV vaccine is now starting human trials.”
Awesome news! The silver lining of the pandemic is the new mRNA vaccine technology.
Oh, and the crumbling of blind faith in public schools.
And the crumbling of faith in the medical sector. Let’s not forget that.
Only among right-wing partisans who are determined to see only bad because they don’t want to (heaven forbid!) share in any view held by the left.
I’m happy you’re getting your treatment.
“Only among right-wing partisans”
Here we see Mike’s bias again. This happens when the only people you spend time around are Silicon Valley types. 44% of Americans trust the CDC according to recent polls. That includes the fact that only 37% of Independents trust the CDC.
https://www.newsweek.com/only-44-percent-americans-trust-what-cdc-has-said-about-covid-poll-1671988
So what Mike sees as a “right-wing” partisan thing, is actually the opposite. Only people in the bubble he inhabits (the Bay Area, located in the State of Denial) actually trust the CDC at this point.
This once again drives home how wrong Mike is when he continues to deride people for criticizing the CDC and leftists supporting it. They are the ones that are wrong, and Mike is the one defending people on the fringe. If he were really interested in developing a national consensus, he would be busy trying to convince the deluded leftists in Mountain View that they are wrong, than complaining about Right-wing partisans.
Shilling for these wannabe dictators isn’t going to get you power, money, or laid. When the time comes they’ll throw you out with the rest of the trash.
The Right did not tell them to say, for MONTHS, that any gathering outside was bad….right until protests/riots started over Floyd then THOSE were OK.
So, “they” said that. Why are you so bent out of shape over it? It was bad information, you know it, go on with your life. The only people I see dwelling on it are right-wingers who nurse a chip on their shoulder.
Who specifically is “they” that said this, anyway? It was someone specific at the CDC, like Fauci. Or it was a talking head on CNN. Or it was some politician on Twitter.
It was not “the medical sector”. The only people whose “faith in the medical sector” is “crumbling” are right wingers nursing that “crumbling” for partisan reasons.
Who’s bent out of shape? It just shows that the medical establishment are just as much a group of political hacks as actual politicians.
And, Mike, as was shown elsewhere in this thread, conservatives and independents have lost faith. Progs like you are the only ones who take them seriously.
I’m an independent libertarian. I’m not a progressive, and you have no reason for saying I am.
Yup. No reason at all. Nobody has any reason to doubt you’re anything but a prog.
It is so incredibly stupid when you guys pull this shit. Muting.
Lol. Mike ran away.
Mike Laursen
February.2.2022 at 4:20 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
I’m an independent libertarian. I’m not a progressive, and you have no reason for saying I am.
Haha Dee lies.
“Who specifically is “they” that said this, anyway?”
This has been shown by people in the comments multiple times:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html
But now, notice how Mike has shifted his arguments here. Instead of “that’s a right wing story”, now it is “why are you talking about this- you should just get on with your life”.
It is a fact that the Medical Establishment- from the CDC to public officials throughout the country- acted overtly (ahem) political throughout the pandemic and that increasingly independent, republican and a minority of Democrat Americans have lost faith in them.
But Mike doesn’t like people pointing that out, so its all right wing talking points to him.
Dee’s only here to counter right wing talking points.
Dee also thinks right wingers should let go of the chip on their shoulder.
Dee is a hypocrite that lacks insight.
Dee also cries about being called an obvious leftist as he constantly calls everyone else right wing.
That simply isn’t true. Many people who are not right wing anything share these views.
Dee thinks Johns Hopkins is right wing.
https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2022-02-02/a-johns-hopkins-study-says-ill-founded-lockdowns-did-little-to-limit-covid-deaths
And that Public Health Scotland is notoriously anti-vax.
https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf
Note the table on page 38 where they spread the misinformation that the vaccinated are more likely to get COVID. Or the table on page 50 showing more deaths among those with 2 shots than among the vaccinated.
Bullshit. Almost everyone I know in real life who shares my views on these things is decidedly not of the political right.
Only if you’re a sex worker, of course.
You know, it is really too bad someone cannot put a ‘Mandate Freedom’ sign in a statue’s hands in the Halls of Congress, right there in the Capitol Rotunda.
No doubt, that is insurrectionist talk. Pfffft.
Pfizer and BioNTech said Tuesday that they were seeking emergency-use authorization for the first coronavirus vaccine for children younger than 5…
Hook ’em when they’re young.
Here’s a list of 50 books Texas parents are trying to ban.
Let’s not focus on a few outliers.
We seem to be using a different definition of “ban” than the one I am familiar with. Apparently, not teaching a book as part of a curriculum or stocking a book in the library is the same thing as burning it and forcing its publishers to stop selling it.
I agree that removing these from the library might be excessive, but that is a far cry from “banning.”
Yep. And one suspects that listing the “banned” titles makes those books more popular with the kids.
Damn straight. Anything I wanted to read, listen or watch was something the authorities didn’t want me to.
I really should thank Tipper for creating an easy system for my teenage self to know which music to buy in the days before the internet. But on the other hand fuck that busy body bitch.
This is the problem- Banning has been ingrained in our sinful culture for hundreds of years.
Did you know I could never get Penthouse or Playboy in my High School library back in the 90s? Censored and Banned! Evidently there are several romantic novels about some “Lady Chatterly” that could also not be found.
Damn the book banners.
“Lady Chatterly”
One of the rare times the movies were better than the books.
And one suspects that listing the “banned” titles makes those books more popular with the kids.
And one would be wrong.
These are preachy, woke diatribes that kids just don’t like to read–so they don’t. They made some graphic novels and stuck nudity and sex in with the hope that this might get kids interested.
But kids don’t like hearing aging hippies lecture them about sex–no matter how many bewbs the old shits have drawn.
So they pull out the fake ‘ban’. This causes other aging leftists to sit up and take notice.
But the kids still want Rowling.
I suspect that none of Murray Rothbard’s books are in any public school curriculum. So they would qualify as “banned” under this new definition.
Suppose a teacher decided to use ‘Mein Kampf’ as a source material for fourth graders, and in a way to encourage the views expressed.
But, the response would not be book banning. That would be completely different.
If they can change the definition of “vaccine” or “bigot” or “insurrection”, why can’t they change the definition of “ban”?
a lot of these books should NOT be taught to children as part of a curriculum.
That said, get rid of public schools. Problem solved.
haha reading more closely this stupid list of “50 books” is mostly composed of complaints from a handful of parents in a few different small towns. What a completely misleading news item.
ABC hasn’t gone far enough. Whoopi needs to be fired for her hurtful, anti-Semitic remarks! The Jewish people are a distinct race separate from the white race, unless we are applying for admission to Harvard.
You should hook up with Open borders liberal-tarian (OBL). The two of you would hit it off famously. 🙂
How do you know they aren’t one and the same? 🙂
I still can’t get over Mother’s Lament calling him “Good Rabbi!” 😉
He’s my guide to all that is kashrut.
Rabbi has some great sarcasm- but also just slips into general crankiness. I actually find a lot of his analysis (when not being sarcastic, probably forgetting to switch socks) pretty good.
You would think, since the Jewish Cabal controls Hollywood and the banks, that they’d have long since gotten this sort of thing under control.
It’s really shaking my faith in the existence of the New World Order.
Don’t worry, the World Economic Forum decided to turn what was once crazy theory into reality, for some reason.
Now everyone from the anti-reptilians to the anti-masons can stand up proudly and say “told you so”.
New legislation being rushed through the House has massive privacy and other problems for small sellers…
Don’t tell me that regulatory capture has found its way into the United States House of Representatives.
The protests have been peaceful and largely without incident—which makes reactions to them from media outlets and Canadian leaders especially odd.
Have you really not caught on yet?
Canadians like to think of themselves as culturally refined as Europeans so they’re naturally authoritarian.
Nicely phrased
Welch is just starting to notice. Enb will be at salon be for she figures it out
ENB hesitates to call out the whatabootism.
It isn’t like some woke Canadian city just had their NHL team lose in the Stanley Cup finals against a team in the US. That wouldn’t be peaceful. Hypothetically. Vancouver.
I’ve heard talk of a U.S. counterpart to the Canadian trucker convoy. I don’t know if that will actually happen, but it would be interesting if it did. The leftist freakout would be epic. I’m sure they’d call for the military to forcibly suppress this “insurrection”.
Sounds like an interesting movie premise, Convoy II: Insurrection Boogaloo
We’ve got a great big convoy, rocking through the night
We’ve got a great big convoy, ain’t it a beautiful sight
Come on join our convoy, ain’t nothing gonna stand in our way
We’re gonna roll this trucking convoy, cross the USA.
Pigpen this here’s a rubber duck
It would be interesting in the same sense that Waco was interesting.
It is mentioned in the story above that there is already an Alaskan convoy. And no freakout has occurred.
Well, it’s nowhere near Blue America, and has no chance of getting to DC. They would have to drive through Canada, and that would be illegal.
Well, if a convoy happens in the lower 48, we’ll see how the left reacts. My bet is they would ignore the convoy instead of freaking out over it, but who knows, because IT IS A COUNTERFACTUAL.
I largely agree, but mostly because no such convoy would grow to a large enough size to cause problems. If such a convoy were to exist, the freakout would probably begin as soon as it crossed the Mississippi.
Counterfactuals don’t bother me much. Idle speculation is fun.
That’s cool. You seem to have a grasp on what’s real and what isn’t.
Contrast with this comment, where damikesc is discussing “they” (leftists) not appreciating the role of truckers in language that treats Sandwich’s hypothetical scenario as if it has actually happened in reality.
Leftists 100% do not appreciate the role of truckers and making it harder for them to do their job is certainly not helping the supply chain issues Biden has caused.
Again, they drive alone. They are as isolated a job as humanly possible. They need vaccines…WHY?
I am sure that is true of many people with left-leaning views. I am sure it is not true of all people with left-leaning views. Hell, some truckers ARE people who have left-leaning views, vote Democrat.
You are engaging in painting your partisan opponents with a broad brush.
You are engaging in painting your partisan opponents with a broad brush.
Are you saying this with a straight fucking face?
Just above you are making claims that only right wing partisans believe certain things. And you make this complaint here?
It’s almost as if Dee is a dishonest lefty!
Remember, Mike’s totally not a Democrat. Just ask him, he’ll tell you.
I suspect you are right. The mainstream news will studiously ignore it as they have done with most anti-covid-authoritarianism protests.
They seem to not realize without those truckers, they would not live. Food does not grow at their local supermarket.
Woah, you are talking about Sandwich’s hypothetical scenario as if it has actually happened.
Nobody has actually freaked out over a non-existent convoy, and if there were one I predict it would be ignored, not freaked out over.
“Nobody has actually freaked out”
Canada’s PM went into hiding and is siccing their national police on them.
Not sure how you define “freaking out”, but that seems to fit.
Enjoy Every Sandwich’s hypothetical was about a “freakout” in the United States, not Canada.
The Mayor of Ottawa tried to get all their vehicles towed. Every towing company in town said all their employees had Covid.
During protests for racial justice and police abuse, violent behavior and vandalism by a few has frequently been used by opponents to slam the whole movement.
Bull. The wise people in these comments have made it very clear that every single BLM protest was a riot and every single BLM protester was a rioter. Every single one of them should be lined up and shot. However 1/6 was a peaceful protest and the only person who did anything wrong was Saint Babbitt’s murderer who shot her in cold blood for no reason at all. He deserves death, while everyone else deserves a Congressional Medal for being peaceful tourists who merely wanted to overturn a fraudulent election.
Your trolling isn’t even clever.
I’m just paraphrasing what the cool kids say every day.
It’s odd that Mother’s Lament is absent from the commentariat on the day Canadian politics is being discussed.
He just showed up.
I haven’t read one of his posts in months.
I’ve had him muted for a long time. I was just taking a cheap shot, admittedly.
I love how angry I make your dishonest asses. Getting in the way of your purposeful lying and trolling is my mitzvah.
He’s Canadian. Who cares.
You and Dee, apparently.
Speaking of cheap shots. 🙂
Although, I’m sure many would cheer the same cheap shot if it were directed at Neil Young.
– I haven’t read one of his posts in months.
– I’ve had him muted for a long time.
It’s revealing the left wingers compete to see how little they know.
Every single BLM rally wasn’t a riot but it was a COVID super spreader event. The police should have been deputized by Doctor Fauci and ordered to bleach the crowds.
Couldn’t the police just blast the crowd with some kind of ultraviolet light or something?
No, they were all “mostly peaceful,” remember?
Actual events, rallies, marches organized by the Black Lives Matter organization were beyond mostly peaceful. When repeatedly challenged to find any example of violence at an official BLM event, all JesseAz could come up with in months and months of my asking him was one speaker at one rally in England advocating violence.
Now do Canadian truckers.
That’s his mom’s job. Hey-oh!
Apparently, the same deal.
Did you think you had me in some kind of “gotcha”? I don’t have any animosity toward the Canadian truckers.
So why does the government and legacy media establishment not have the same deal, so to speak?
Umm, not sure exactly what you are asking.
Are we talking about the Canadian government when you say “the government”? I don’t know much about Canadian government.
As far as the media, there is a wide range of media, and a lot of it is low quality, and I can’t defend their biases (either “side”).
Read the article. Specifically, the “Canadian truckers” part. I’m asking why.
No theories?
Can you be more specific? What about the Canadian truckers?
Looks like the once mighty sea lion is trying to swim away.
Sometimes, confronting facts is hard.
She might be trying to swim away, but she’s really just swimming in circles.
“Sometimes, confronting facts is hard.”
Huh? I’m just asking you to be a little less vague, so we are actually talking about something that has some substance. As it stands, you have some vague complaint about “the government” and the “legacy media establishment”.
You haven’t even made it clear whether you are complaining about the U.S. or Canadian government.
I can only conclude your complaint is emotional, not rational. Just like the “feelz” complaints that come from the left, and are so often criticized by the right.
I can only conclude your complaint is emotional, not rational. Just like the “feelz” complaints that come from the left, and are so often criticized by the right.
Oh my. Mike reached a conclusion where he can accuse Brian of doing exactly what he was just doing.
How unexpected.
I’ve read enough of JesseAz to be skeptical of your claims. I suspect he either 1) didn’t say what you assert; 2) did provide evidence or 3) you’re just making shit up.
Believe whatever you like. It’s hilarious that you claim to have read lots of JesseAz’s comments and think he is credible on any subject.
Mike shows up regularly doing the following.
1) Asking for cites after a thread has been cold for hours.
2) Telling you that he doesn’t trust the citation if you happen to spot the request and provide one.
4) Derailing threads where people are trying to have a conversation.
https://reason.com/2022/01/07/mandatory-gmo-disclosure-doesnt-sway-shopping-habits-but-will-drive-up-costs/?comments=true#comment-9293589
5) Just making shit up.
Mikes purpose here is to ensure that Libertarians never agree with anyone on the right. That is why he tries to derail threads by picking unrelated fights. That is why above, he is claiming that only “Right-wing partisans” have lost trust in the medical establishment, when in fact polls show that majorities of *independents* and republicans lack trust in the CDC.
The worst thing Mike could ever envision is icky right-wingers being part of the libertarian movement (despite the fact that the Republican party is the only place in the past 2 decades that Libertarian candidates have made any progress.)
I can guarantee you that if you provide a list of BLM events that turned violent, he would find every reason to excuse them- they aren’t “Officially Official” or “Prove to me that the agitators were actually BLM” etc.
Because Mike actually doesn’t want to have a discussion. He is here to drive a wedge. If you provide cites, then in a month when the conversation comes up again he will insist AGAIN that no one can give the evidence. Just as he insisted that he’d never rely on Rolling Stone for news a mere two days after trafficking their ivermectin hoax story, he will be here completely denying that anyone showed him arguments or evidence against his worldview.
Mikes purpose here is to ensure that Libertarians never agree with anyone on the right.
The right doesn’t need Mike for that. Their love for authoritarianism, nationalism, merchantilism, protectionism and isolationism is all the reason libertarians need to disagree with them.
LOL, Overt is on this mission to discredit me, and all I do is counter right-wing talking points that pop up here every day.
If you’re critical of Republicans then you’re a leftist who supports everything leftist. Those are the only political choices: Republican and far-left. There are no libertarians. Only Republicans and leftists.
You two clowns are called “leftists” because you support and white knight for everything leftist.
Overt, who you and your girlfriend are going after, criticized Trump here quite often. So you’re not going to get away with calling him a Republican shill.
“If you’re critical of Republicans then you’re a leftist who supports everything leftist. Those are the only political choices: Republican and far-left. There are no libertarians. Only Republicans and leftists.”
I have said no such thing, so kindly fuck off Sarc. My criticisms to Mike are specific to his behavior, not his viewpoints. And it isn’t that he is a leftist that is my beef with him. My beef with him is that he pretends to be reasonable, when he is in fact trolling.
Yeah, damiseck (or however you spell his handle) just pulled that on me in a comment higher up on this page. Muting him, since it shows he isn’t interesting in honest discussion.
The hilarious partisan that in this very thread sarc and Mike call people attacking the right leftists and yet cry like bitches when people call them leftist for the same thing.
Sarc. Find one person here who details every thread critical of the right like you do in biden critical articles.
“Overt is on this mission to discredit me,”
I don’t need to. Mike discredits himself with his posting- which is why I merely link to the times he has discredited himself. He thrives on the notion that if he shows up each day forgetting what happened the previous day, he can fuck up the threads with concern trolling and sea-lioning.
Today, he is insisting that mistrust of our Public Health institutions is only among “right-wing partisans” even though I linked to proof that independents and republicans broadly mistrust the CDC, and only Democrats show faith in it.
Today he will be insisting that *of course* the reason to get the vaccine is because it reduces your chances of being in the hospital, despite the fact that for months he insisted they were important for stopping the spread. Because he doesn’t care about contradicting his past self. Just “countering right-wing talking points”
And he’ll insist that he is a good judge of news outfits, completely ignoring that he was using them for source material days before.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/?comments=true#comment-9091773
“all I do is counter right-wing talking points that pop up here every day.”
I actually agree with Mike. He is here to counter the Right- even when what they are saying is true. That is exactly the point of my previous post. That is why when there was agreement between the right-leaners and the libertarians on GMOs, he tried to change the subject to Vaccines. (see link in post above)
To Mike, denying the right is his purpose, not furthering liberty.
you don’t counter shit. fucking sea-liar.
Overt and Zeb are probably the most reasonable commenters here, and both have called you out.
And Overt, Mike does have a point. JesseAZ is a piece of garbage. Anyone who takes him seriously needs brain surgery. With a bullet.
Sarcasmic only attacks ideas and never people. He swears he never resorts to ad hominem.
Just ask him.
Maybe we should give sarc a break here. People lie and say crazy shit all the time when trying to get laid.
“And Overt, Mike does have a point. JesseAZ is a piece of garbage. ”
And this is why I shouldn’t have posted this thread. It was yet another of your strawman “Imma insult people with strawman characterizations of their positions and then wine about how mean they are.”
Remember a few months ago when you said you were done with that? I told you I tend to skip over those threads, but I’ll be damned if Mike’s perfidy didn’t draw me back in again.
Well, my mistake.
It was yet another of your strawman “Imma insult people with strawman characterizations of their positions and then wine about how mean they are.”
If anyone found that comment to be insulting then it means I hit on the truth.
And it’s not a strawman. You’re telling me you haven’t seen people demanding that if you don’t denounce every BLM protestor as a rioter then you’re an avowed leftist? You’ve never seen people saying Saint Babbitt was murdered in cold blood? You’ve never seen anyone post that 1/6 was just tourists milling about? You’ve never seen anyone post that there were no protests, only riots? You’ve never seen anyone call for that officer’s death, or for the BLM rioters to be put to death?
If so you haven’t been paying much attention.
If anyone found that comment to be insulting then it means I hit on the truth.
What a pile of solipsistic bullshit. Your comment is pure trolling. You are insulting the truth which is why it gets a reaction.
How the fuck do you constantly berate the police and stand up for that piece of shit that shot the completely defenseless Babbitt? Your behavior is that of a vicious small-minded agit-prop toady.
“If anyone found that comment to be insulting then it means I hit on the truth.”
This is a silly argument from you Sarc. That means that every time you come in and say I am being unfair to Mike, I am hitting on a truth, right? Right? Or is it different when it angers you?
“You’re telling me you haven’t seen people demanding that if you don’t denounce every BLM protestor as a rioter then you’re an avowed leftist?”
Yes. I have never seen someone claim that if you don’t denounce *every* BLM protestor as a rioter then you are an avowed leftist.
“If so you haven’t been paying much attention.”
What I see is you deliberately caricaturing peoples statements because- for some strange reason- you want to trigger a flame war. Every time I see a shit thread of back and forth “You are mean! No you are!” there is at least a 50% chance that you started it with exactly the same bullshit.
For someone who laments the state of conversation here, you seem to absolutely love perpetuating it.
“You’re telling me you haven’t seen people demanding that if you don’t denounce every BLM protestor as a rioter then you’re an avowed leftist?”
Umm, cite?
I would say “Jesse is garbage” is insulting whether or not it’s true.
And while I could do without all the troll-patrol nonsense and needless insults in both directions, a lot of the “mean girls” do have a lot of worthwhile and interesting things to say too, even if I don’t always agree.
To be fair zeb, he is such a pathetic drunk i dont give a shit what he says lol.
It’s 3
JesseAZ is a liar, plain and simple. I have him on mute because he is nothing but a troll that makes shit up in order to goad someone into a response. When I tried to communicate with him in the past every reply to him began with “Great response to something I never said nor did.” It was nothing more than refuting a string of lies. So now I just leave his lies unread and unanswered.
Sarcasmic only attacks ideas and never people. He swears he never resorts to ad hominem.
Just ask him.
The funniest part of you muting him is when he directly quotes you then you assume he’s lying.
Lol. It is my new favorite.
Caw Caw!!! It’s all 3!
Good grief imagine the amount of blue pills required to believe this.
Cite a violent event that occurred during an official Black Lives Matter event. Not later that night in a different location, or some such loose association, but an incident that occurred at an official event.
Observe the American leftist weasel in his natural habitat.
Not later that night in a different location, or some such loose association, but an incident that occurred at an official event.
This is how left wingers protect their allies: by insisting only certain violence matters. There’s always a justification for why leftist violence shouldn’t matter.
And the riot on Jan 6 wasn’t an official part of the rally that was going on in DC that day.
At least let’s be consistent.
Actual events, rallies, marches organized by the Black Lives Matter organization were beyond mostly peaceful.
Wrong. Every single event, rally and march was like Portland Oregon. Burning, looting and mayhem. That’s why every single city and town in the country is rebuilding their downtown. Don’t you know anything?
Funny thing is I’m not even a supporter or fan of Black Lives Matter, although folks like JesseAz will say I am. I’m just trying to make the point that they should be criticized for things they have actually done. It’s not like there isn’t anything to criticize them about, such as recent news about financial mismanagement.
And I also have long disdained antifa, ever since some antifa thugs beat up my friend’s son when he video’d one of their protests in Berkeley, years before the summer of 2020. But I’m sure JesseAz would claim I love antifa, too.
Fuck JesseAZ and folks like him. They just want you to defend yourself from their lies so they can say “You’re lying! This is what you really think!” in order to get you to respond again. Wash, rinse, repeat. They’re piece of shit liars. That’s it. We all know who they are. Put them on mute and leave them there.
Sarcasmic only attacks ideas and never people. He swears he never resorts to ad hominem.
Just ask him.
You guys sure did mention me a lot in a thread I wasn’t in. Scared when I’m more available? Or just like being hypocrites?
Wrong. Every single event, rally and march was like Portland Oregon. Burning, looting and mayhem. That’s why every single city and town in the country is rebuilding their downtown. Don’t you know anything?
Not EVERY city or town.
Only the places controlled by leftists.
There were thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of marches over that summer. There were riots only in a few select cities. If all the places controlled by leftists saw violence, then half the country would be in ruin.
Saying every BLM protester was a rioter is like saying the people who never stepped foot into the Capital on 1/6 were rioters.
It’s dishonest.
Lol. I provided you dozens of videos of know blm activists rioting. You asked for proof and I linked identification from local journalists who knew the people.
Youre so fucking pathetic.
And made it clear many times that every single person who has engaged in rude or violent behavior while wearing a “Black Lives Matter” t-shirt, or holding a “Black Lives Matter” sign, or shouting “Black Lives Matter”, or being black or standing next to someone black was instructed and organized by the Black Lives Matter organization.
Yep they need an official blm membership card and a notarized reciet that shows they donate or are a member in some way
Why not? That’s exactly the standard being applied to the Tea Party and these truckers, among others.
Your guys are being lied about and treated unfairly so you’re gonna show how mature you are by lying about others and treating them unfairly. Great job.
Applying their standards to themselves is perfectly legitimate. It works well because it identifies left wingers pretending to be libertarians who defend BLM to the death but said not a word to defend Tea Partiers.
If you go by Mike’s calculation, there could never ever be an example of “Black Lives Matter” being violent. He totally tipped his hand there. Show him a picture of people marching in a parade later burning shit down, or people in BLM shirts pulling down statues, he will say “that doesn’t represent OFFICIAL BLM POLICY.”
Well dude, there is no way to square that circle. No evidence will be acceptable at that point, absent a confession video.
And made it clear many times that every single person who has burned down a building or looted a store or beat down a bystander or assaulted a motorist, or committed multiple murders while wearing a “Black Lives Matter” t-shirt, or holding a “Black Lives Matter” sign, or shouting “Black Lives Matter”, or being black or standing next to someone black was instructed and organized by the Black Lives Matter organization.>/i>
There.
FTFY
So your point is that the government and the media are just as unbiased as your most hated reason commenters, just with different ideological underpinnings, right?
Just because the trolls hate me doesn’t mean I hate anyone.
And ideological underpinnings have nothing to do with it.
My point is that lots of people are operating with facts that just aren’t true. They honestly believe that Saint Babbitt was murdered in cold blood, and that every march turned into a riot. It’s what they believe. And they’re just wrong. Not only wrong, but willfully ignorant and in many cases downright stupid.
“Just because the trolls hate me doesn’t mean I hate anyone”
Just five sarcposts above:
“JesseAZ is a piece of garbage. Anyone who takes him seriously needs brain surgery. With a bullet.”
Looks like daydrinking sarcasmic is back and in fine form.
They honestly believe that Saint Babbitt was murdered in cold blood, and that every march turned into a riot.
Conflate, conflate, conflate. One of those things is obviously false and one of those things is arguably true. But you refuse to engage in honest discourse.
This is one of your weakest troll jobs.
And it’s not as if you have a plethora of good troll jobs.
Which is odd because he said trolling is his passion. You’d think that he’d work to become better at it.
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is a circus.
sarcasmic
September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
I like to stir shit up. So what.
Drinks rarely improve on their skills.
Now the real facts:
During the antifa / BLM riots the media message was “mostly peaceful” even with mass arson and violence. But the second 1/6 happened everyone involved was an “insurrectionist”.
The board leftists don’t care about this 180 at all because they are here to defend the left, not to lay out the appropriate standards and analysis.
“Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the right of peaceful protest. We believe in importance of dialogue and that is why we have reached out through multiple means directly to Indian authorities to highlight our concerns,” he said”
-Trudeau 12/20 ( supporting farmers’ protests in India).
Fast forward, 1/22: Sorry, Truckers. I was kidding. You ain’t woke. Kiss my ass. Oh, and I’m running away.
“The protests have been peaceful and largely without incident—which makes reactions to them from media outlets and Canadian leaders especially odd. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and other leaders, along with press in and outside of Canada, have been keen to condemn the protesters as a whole based on reports of a few distasteful antics.”
Canadian self-identity sometimes seems to be built in contrast to America. Whatever is authentically Canadian is by definition not authentically American. It isn’t just that no prime minister wants to be seen as America’s lapdog. It’s that the Canadian people want to see themselves as distinct from Americans. That isn’t a put down in any way. Every country sees itself as distinct.
I think a big part of Justin Trudeau’s appeal was that he was the anti-Trump. Harper struck me as the anti-Obama. There are real distinctions between the national character of America and the national character of Canada. Americans and Canadians use the same words, like “fairness” and “arrogance”, to mean completely different things.*
So, I’m not saying that there aren’t any real differences between us, and I’m not saying that Canadians are supporting their prime ministers just on the basis of how different they are from American presidents. But I am saying that Trudeau being so very different from Trump did not hurt him with Canadian public opinion at all, and now that Trump is gone, he may not benefit from that like he once did.
*When Canadians talk about “arrogance”, they’re describing what Americans generally understand as “confidence”, and when Canadians talk about “fairness”, they’re talking about a concept Americans can barely understand. It isn’t what Americans mean by “fairness” at all.
Describe their notion of ‘fairness’, Ken. What is the American analogue?
I wrote that below–before I saw this comment.
Trudeau became leader of the Liberals in 2013 and prime minister in 2015 before Trump was president. Harper became PM in 2006 while Bush was still president.
So Canadians have time machines?
You seem to be reading something into this that I not only didn’t write but also specifically rejected.
“I’m not saying that Canadians are supporting their prime ministers just on the basis of how different they are from American presidents. But I am saying that Trudeau being so very different from Trump did not hurt him with Canadian public opinion at all, and now that Trump is gone, he may not benefit from that like he once did.”
—-Ken Shultz
“I think a big part of Justin Trudeau’s appeal was that he was the anti-Trump. Harper struck me as the anti-Obama.”
I guess you could be suggesting that appeal is what kept them in power.
Supporting this point, the Conservatives’ leader is under fire for failing to unseat Trudeau while running a campaign of Bidenesque faux-Centrism.
After the NHL lockout, the owners came to the realization that if they were to share the revenue pool the way the players demanded, then they would need to grow the viewership and ticket sales of the NHL. The NHL couldn’t possibly be any more popular in Canada, so that meant they’d need to tweak the game to be more appealing to an American audience.
In the American mind, the idea of “fairness” has something to do with there being a winner and a loser. If Americans pay money to attend a game or they invest three hours of their life in watching a game on TV, they expect to see a winner and a loser. In American movies, the bad guy is killed at the end, and the good guy gets the girl. One team wins everything, and the other team loses everything–because fair is fair.
Before the rules change, if you played four periods of hockey and there wasn’t a winner, the game was declared a tie–and each team was awarded one point (rather than two points for a victory and zero points for a loss). The game was decided by the skills of the players during the regular course of the game. Deciding the outcome by going to a penalty shootoff is denigrating to the skills and efforts of the players. It’s like deciding the outcome of the game by a coin toss.
As things stand, Americans don’t understand why the loser of an overtime game is awarded a point at all. Winning means winning everything, and losing means losing everything–that’s the American sense of fairness.
You should see the way Canadians treat what they call “First Nations” and we call “Native Americans”. Ask an American how “Native Americans” were treated historically, and they’ll tell you that we violated their treaties, violated their rights, and stole their land–and we’ll say it with a grin while shaking our heads. But Americans think of it in American terms of fairness–there was a competition. We won everything. They lost everything. Fair is fair.
Most Canadians and most Americans don’t understand what’s being said when they talk to each other about fairness. I”m not saying one is right and one is wrong. I’m not saying that one is better than the other. I’m just saying that they’re different. Incidentally, after living in Mexico for more than a year, I came away with the sense that Americans and Mexicans have different definitions for the word “selfishness”.
To Mexicans I talked to, “selfishness” is when you’re not willing to share what you have with others.
To plenty of Americans, a sense of entitlement regarding the fruit of other people’s labor is horribly “selfish”.
When we accuse each other of being selfish, we’re often talking about different things.
I think plenty of people in the US agree with the mexican sensibility of selfishness.
This is what I have tried to explain to the collectivists like Jeff several times- that just because something (like charity) is good, doesn’t make NOT giving charity necessarily mad. It is morally neutral. Getting vaccinated to protect others from a virus might be morally good, but declining to vaccinate is not bad- just neutral. Bad, is actually stealing from people or actively engaging in behavior likely to spread a virus.
This belief that “not giving” is being selfish is inherent to catholic teaching (and many churches, which would not be able to support themselves without their congregations believing they have a moral obligation to give money to said church), which also permeated much European social philosophy.
Canadian self-identity sometimes seems to be built in contrast to America.
This is because not being American is basically what defines being Canadian. Because the different Canadian regions have very little in common with each other.
Coastal BC is culturally like Washington and Oregon, not Ontario. The Prairie Provinces are more heavily populated versions of the Dakotas. Ontario is spiritually Michigan. The Maritimes are essentially Maine. The Territories are like Alaska. Quebec and Newfoundland are the only truly unique places.
So because its parts are more like conjoining American states than each other, the only thing that can define us as a whole, is the fact that we’re not you.
*When Canadians talk about “arrogance”, they’re describing what Americans generally understand as “confidence”
On a personal, individual level, American’s who say they’re displaying “confidence” come across as phony poseurs to me. I often find it irritating and even grating.
I think you all know I’m a big fan of the US culturally and politically, but personal arrogance and unneeded or unwarranted boasting is an irritant when dealing with many Americans on a personal level.
This isn’t to say that the nation is guilty of this. In fact America as a nation is often critical of itself to the point of being self-flagellating.
But trying to be “confident” on a individual level makes many of you sound like braggarts and douchebags.
I think some of the differences seem to be related to Canada being attached to the UK for so long. I don’t remember the last time I heard an American use the word “arrogant” to describe somebody, but the Brits also use that word all the time–especially to describe Americans. Australians also use that word a lot. I suspect the sense of humor is also due to the influence of British culture. Brits and Canadians are the funniest people in the world.
I’ve heard Aussies talk about something called “tall poppy syndrome”, which I take to be the flip side of what we’re talking about. On the one hand, they don’t like American arrogance, but on the other, they notice and criticize a tendency in themselves to cut down anyone who overachieves. Bill Gates was once America’s most admired man. American arrogance may make us immune to whatever the Aussies are talking about when they’re talking about “tall poppy syndrome”.
Just throwing it out for consideration–rather than making an argument–but could contempt for American arrogance be a cultural artifact of the British class system?
Americans expect you to transcend class. Americans brag about how they came from nothing. Born in a log cabin. Father was a coal miner. Jobs and Woz built their first computer in their garage.
Americans will brag about how their immigrant grandparents came with nothing but the shirts on their backs! I’m not sure any of these myths are really true, but successful people love to project them. They brag about originating in the lowest class.
“Just throwing it out for consideration–rather than making an argument–but could contempt for American arrogance be a cultural artifact of the British class system?”
I called this out in another post, but this is truly a description of what makes America stand apart from many other countries in the west. Our class system is not our defining categorical taxonomy. The Americans traditionally believed the Rags-to-Riches dream so much that we were able to resist a lot of the socialist tendencies of other western cultures.
It is interesting that as our country has gotten more and more regulated with a larger and larger government, people see the “rags to riches” as a malevolent myth, rather than an aspiration.
people see the “rags to riches” as a malevolent myth, rather than an aspiration.
Because the Marxists are whispering in their ear that it is a lie. They point at rich and famous minorities and say “if you are willing to dance for the man is the only way you can get ahead”, ignoring the millions of minority successes whose name nobody knows.
Perhaps aggrandizing high school dropouts and ex-gang members is not constructive.
More than that, the stronger government (IMHO) actually creates the conditions that lead people to believe that the system is rigged against them. Because it is. Daddy Biden goes to Washington, gets unexplainably rich, and his drug-shooting, whore banging son lives a life of luxury un-explainable by his actual merit. Get the right family name, get into the right college, get the right jobs, get the right political appointments, have a kid and pass on your legacy.
This is exactly the system Marx sold to people as needing REVOLUTION!(tm). Is it a shock that stronger governments yield it?
The perceived arrogance we’re criticizing isn’t on a national level but is a personal trait.
I think Americans call it selling yourself.
For example: “Hi guys, my names Jim. I’m the top product manager for one of the biggest fertilizer companies in the Midwest. I make 150,000 a year and just bought myself a vintage 1984 Trans Am. One of the most beautiful cars you’ve ever seen. Look over there, do you see that beautiful brunette? That’s my wife Tammy. Isn’t she an absolute doll? That’s my son Chip next to her. He’s a black belt Jiu-jitsu champ. Don’t get in his way, he can knock you flat”.
No other Anglo country talks like that.
I’m saying it’s a cultural artifact. When a Brit meets you, they listen to your voice to figure out whether you’re from the North, or cockney, of whether you’re from the south or talk like someone from Oxbridge. Brits have asked me why it is that when they meet an American, the first thing they want to know is what they do for a living. It’s because our class system is based on achievement and wealth. That’s Americans listening for your accent.
Cannibalism and human sacrifice often emerge in egalitarian tribal societies because when a warrior takes a slave from a neighboring tribe, it creates a class distinction that didn’t exist in the egalitarian society before. When the tribe eats the slave of he’s sacrificed to the gods, the whole tribe shares in that elevated class distinction, and when the slave is gone, the egalitarian balance in the tribe is restored. There’s no one lower than anyone else anymore. There’s no one higher than anyone else like a slaveowner either. They’re all more or less the same.
Class systems evolve to make social stratification comfortable. Americans and Brits share a language, but our cultures evolved differently and so did our class systems. Race used to be a big identifier of class in American society, but now what you do for a living and how much money you make is what really matters in terms of class for Americans. The idle rich are loathed. I’m sure it makes Brits feel strange (or offended) when Americans can’t tell the difference between Oxbridge and cockney and classify them based on how much money they make and what they’ve achieved.
A working class guy doesn’t think of himself as a loser for failing to transcend his class, and an Oxbridge graduate doesn’t think of himself as a loser for failing to achieve anything monumental either. Meanwhile, the American is completely oblivious to British class distinctions. All of this is happening on an individual level, but I think we’re talking about cultural assumptions. We speak the same language, but the expectation and assumptions are different.
“The idle rich are loathed.”
Yeah. By people who intentionally exploit class resentment, and the losers they pander to.
Their money is none of my business.
I wasn’t arguing about whether they should be or shouldn’t be. I was only pointing out that they are.
Wait–THAT’S ‘arrogance’?
Are you serious?
That’s what it sounds like to me and most of the rest of the world. Overweening arrogance and boasting.
It sounds like nothing to you, because it means nothing to you. The guy’s just selling himself. But for countries where personal modesty and humility are a valued part of the culture, Scandinavia, the UK, Canada, Japan, Korea, etc. you may as well be trying to publicly shortcock us. It sounds like pure boastfulness and arrogance.
I know better than that now, but it’s a cultural thing and it still bugs me sometimes.
I think a big part of Justin Trudeau’s appeal was that he was the anti-Trump.
I’m not convinced of that. I’m trying to get my head back around the political mood of things in early 2015 (Trudeau was elected in late 2015, but had been on the campaign trail for most of the year) and I don’t think that Trump loomed that large in the minds of the media just quite yet. I recall NPRs coverage of Trudeau, and the media in general, and as I recall, they weren’t thinking of him in contrast to Trump, they were thinking of him in relation to his father. The Canadian Media thought fondly of Trudeau the elder, and the Canadian (and American left-media, aka ‘the media’) have a bit of a fascination with political dynasties– and I recall NPR even mentioning that the election of Trudeau created a new political Dynasty (I believe even references to the Kennedy’s were made) for Canada. At several points, comparisons to Obama were made.
I think it was simpler. I think the media… being the media was fascinated with a generally liberal, good looking, young man was in power and it was tickling their Jack Kennedy obsessions. I really don’t recall Trudeau being seen as juxtaposed to Trump, especially in 2015. Remember, our election wasn’t held until 2016 (late) and most of the media were considering Trump’s run a novelty campaign. It wasn’t until much later in the process that they started to get worried– and even then, they were so cock-sure Hillary would win, it wasn’t until Trump had… actually won that they lost their shit over him.
To what extent did being the anti-Trump benefit him during the federal election in 2019? The Liberals only lost 20 seats!
I’m not saying it was the only factor. I’m saying that being the anti-Trump helped with the swing vote, and now that Trump is gone, that isn’t helping him anymore.
It used to be that these issues could be framed in terms of anti-vax Trumpistas. That’s a hard sell right now in Canada when Trump isn’t there to play the boogeyman in the background.
To what extent did being the anti-Trump benefit him during the federal election in 2019? The Liberals only lost 20 seats!
If you were referring to his re-election in 2019, then fair enough. I was mainly speaking to Trudeau’s initial impression on the political scene– ie, his first election in 2015.
It used to be that these issues could be framed in terms of anti-vax Trumpistas. That’s a hard sell right now in Canada when Trump isn’t there to play the boogeyman in the background.
But you can still try.
“”Pfizer and BioNTech said Tuesday that they were seeking emergency-use authorization for the first coronavirus vaccine for children younger than 5 and have begun submitting data on the safety and efficacy of the first two doses of a planned three-dose regimen,””
The CEO’s jets ain’t gonna buy themselves.
Weird how the right has adopted the left’s anti-pharma profit stance. Shows the basic lack of underlying libertarian belief there is nothing wrong with business and making a profit.
That’s right folks. Mike calls the government paying a couple of companies, billions to develop a “vaccine”, and billions to make it, and billions to produce it, while guaranteeing them absolution from all liability, “business and making a profit”.
Somehow he thinks that you should believe that this rank corporatism is “libertarian”.
Mike also wants you to ignore the fact that almost everyone on the committee, and congressional and senate leaders making the decisions own or bought Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Johnston & Johnston stock immediately before the decision, because “free markets”.
speaking of “free markets” why can’t i choose to get the Sputnik vax or the CCP vax? Those vaccines are far more effective than the US vaccines according to the published literature.
No other industry, outside of Defense, is as much rent-seeking as Big Pharma.
They speak, and its will is done.
That’s true. They are highly rent-seeking. On the other hand, they are highly regulated.
Are you seriously too stupid to understand those two things are a direct result of each other.
No, but he’s here to gaslight.
Oh I don’t know. Don’t ever underestimate how dumb Dee is.
“Weird how the right has adopted the left’s anti-pharma profit stance. Shows the basic lack of underlying libertarian belief there is nothing wrong with business and making a profit.”
…by having the government and media scare morons to feel that your product is necessary? Nothing wrong with that at all, huh?
And I’ll bet they will not be liable for damages from this on infants. Just like real business products.
So now anyone who got vaccinated is a scared moron?
Even many of the commenters here who regularly raise anti-vax and anti-mandate talking points say that they personally chose to be vaccinated. Are they all scared morons?
“So now anyone who got vaccinated is a scared moron?”
“Sheep” or “people who are employed by morons/sheep” works as well.
“Even many of the commenters here who regularly raise anti-vax and anti-mandate talking points say that they personally chose to be vaccinated. Are they all scared morons?”
I am vaccinated withe the first two so I could go on my honeymoon to Jamaica. Mind you, rapid tests pop positive for me every single time I take them to this day (good for paid weeks off from work)
So, you consider yourself a scared moron. Interesting.
No. Somebody who has to placate morons.
“So now anyone who got vaccinated is a scared moron?”
Notice that Mike dodges the complaint here. The fact that there is nothing capitalist about these vaccines. Very, very few Americans have actually BOUGHT these vaccines, but for some reason Libertarians are supposed to cheer the companies that have tapped into government graft.
But Mike doesn’t want to talk about that- instead he wants to pick fights with the right- again, any libertarian should dislike the cozy relationship between Pfizer and the Government, But his criticism is that he doesn’t think the Right is being genuine here. It is the classing “Republicans pounce” defense.
Well, in your final paragraph you move toward making valid criticisms, after your leftist-sounding comment about CEO greed.
You know when you are arguing against something, say COVID-19 vaccinations for two year olds or mask mandates, you can stick to making only the strongest arguments that are consistent with principles instead of throwing every argument you can think of, regardless of quality of said argument, against the wall to see what sticks.
If you are supposedly a libertarian when it comes to there being nothing wrong with running business or making profits, don’t make those cheap shot arguments. Go for better arguments.
When the business works WITH the government to secure profits, then that is a huge problem. It is not free enterprise. It is not capitalism. It is not something any libertarian should ever support.
Do pharma companies have a choice? Seems it is more complex than “pharma companies” are rent-seeking — they also have no choice about being regulated.
“Do pharma companies have a choice?”
Yes. They aren’t slaves to the state.
“Seems it is more complex than “pharma companies” are rent-seeking — they also have no choice about being regulated.”
The government is in no position to demand they create and sell a mediocre “vaccine”.
And by “Sell”, I mean to the government alone. I did not pay for the two useless ones I received.
“If you are supposedly a libertarian when it comes to there being nothing wrong with running business or making profits, don’t make those cheap shot arguments. Go for better arguments.”
To be clear, it is Mike’s argument that is weak. damikesc started this conversation with a thread showing Pfizer cozying up to the government (getting an EUA) to shoot up infants with a vaccine they don’t really need, and infering that they are using the government to get rich.
Nothing about this is contrary to libertarians or free enterprise. It was *Mike* who suddenly decided (eroneously) that quoting Pfizer’s dealings with the *government* was some sort of critique of Free enterprise.
Mike had a few choices here in reading damikesc’s post.
1) He could have ignored it.
2) He could have clarified further pointing out how Big-Pharma has co-opted the government for profit via block grants and mandates- how most Americans haven’t actually paid for the vaccine they consumed because the government is footing the bill.
3) He could bizarrely try to call people on the right hypocrites because they thing #2 is an example of free enterprise.
That he then deigns to lecture people on “better arguments” is richly ironic.
“Weird how the right has adopted the left’s anti-pharma profit stance.”
…and the left’s turned on a dime.
Yeah, that is weird, too.
Two weirds don’t make a sane.
What’s more libertarian than people in government who own stock in something trying to force everyone to consume that product?
In Newspeak, that is an ‘aggressive marketing plan’.
I am going to propose that it is no longer appropriate to respond to White Mike. There is simply no depth to which he will not sink to torpedo any non-lefty position. He has been flickering the gaslights so often that I think we are in danger of suffocating.
You are probably right. Why is it so hard to resist?
Because, sadly he is a troll.
Don’t ignore him. Don’t engage his cleverly designed trolling. Just point out how he didn’t actually actually answer your question, or how he is misrepresenting your position, and for good effect, link to previous examples of him doing the same.
Mike Liarson is a squawking bird named Dee and should be treated as such.
Continue to ignore this at your own detriment.
Uh, there is something wrong with a business making a profit by means of government buying all of the product and then trying to force everyone to take it.
Reports place the number of trucks in the dozens to the hundreds
ENB could’ve just looked at the myriad of pictures and video showing convoys of thousands of trucks, but… actually, I can’t make any sense out of why she wrote dozens.
Try harder. Dozens is a much smaller number than thousands.
I can’t make any sense out of why she wrote dozens.
Because the talking points email said so?
Because “just the one ice cream truck to hundreds” wouldn’t have suckered anybody.
A convoy of Canadian truckers
Mother Fucking Obligatory.
Mercy sakes, Good Buddy!…Not that there’s anything wrong with that!…Just don’t give your Home 20 away to the 11 Long-Haired Friends of Jesus in the Chartreuse Micro-Bus and Dirty Lyle’s trough of Vice Pigs! Catch ya on the Flip-Flop! 🙂
That’s, Catch ya on the Flip-Flop, EH.
They might want to be careful about pissing off truckers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack
An HIV vaccine is now starting human trials.
The same one Fauci’s been chasing since the ’80s? How long until it’s mandatory?
he visited every gay bath house in SF looking for it…
He’s a personal friend of Tony.
He never leaves his buddies behind.
Probed for the answer to the bitter end.
If its long and hard and full of semen Fauci says ‘I thought it was a submarine.’
The lunatic at zero hedge theorized from the beginning that this virus was related to the quest for an HIV vaccine. Interesting that this new covid apparently opened the doors for it to finally happen.
Zerohedge is a spastic, but he was on point about the covid shit from december 2019 before anyone else has heard of it.
Whoopi Goldberg suspended from The View over Holocaust comments.
She said it happened, and Mizek threatened to stop watching The View. They couldn’t handle the 50% drop in viewership.
Trying to ban or trying to remove from public schools?
Very different things.
And, as long as public education exists there will be people fighting over what education is provided.
This simple fact is too complicated for Reason.
Reason editors probably think parents have no role to play in their child’s education.
No probably about it…
Those truckers, always the potential superspreaders.
They spend all day cooped up in tin cans. Jeebus.
How about stopping salesmen at the border?
“Foreign Truckers Must Be Vaccinated to Enter US Starting Jan. 22”
Really effective at trying up the movement of goods; was it supposed to accomplish anything else?
“So now anyone who got vaccinated is a scared moron?”
“Sheep” or “people who are employed by morons/sheep” works as well.
“Even many of the commenters here who regularly raise anti-vax and anti-mandate talking points say that they personally chose to be vaccinated. Are they all scared morons?”
I am vaccinated withe the first two so I could go on my honeymoon to Jamaica. Mind you, rapid tests pop positive for me every single time I take them to this day (good for paid weeks off from work)
Fucking comment misplaced.
I do wonder why truckers, who traditionally travel alone, seldom leave their rig at the drop-off or pickup sites would need a vaccine at all.
With the caveat that I don’t support Canada’s mandate on truckers, the “steel man” argument would be that when a trucker does catch the virus, they travel around a lot, helping it spread over long distances.
…while not being in close proximity to much of anybody? How, exactly, would they pull that off?
You would think the truck stop hookers would be immune by this point.
Hell, they’d be THRILLED only getting COVID.
Truckers never go in truck stops, restaurants, business offices, loading docks, store rooms? They never stop at a store to buy toothpaste?
Truck stops, yes. Which pretty much consists of only truckers. Their impact on the outside world is virtually nil.
Business offices? No. They hand a clipboard to be signed. They are paid by the trucking company they are driving for and have no reason to be involved with the business office at the drop off.
Loading docks? No. They do not load their own trucks.
Store rooms? No. They do not unload them, either. Not their job.
Dee’s never short on ignorance of the world outside her bubble.
Look, you can fix the supply chain by flooding the economy with cash and driving up demand, or by limiting the number of people working and limiting supply. Oh wait…
Turns out Sister Act 3 is a Holocaust denial film.
Co-staring Misek who gets his face rubbed in his ‘evidence’ once again, while screaming ‘YOU CAN’T REFUTE IT!!!’
Well that didn’t take long.
The national debt is now 30.0 trillion dollars.
In 2016 it was 19.3 trillion.
In 2012 it was 14.9 trillion — doubled in 10 years.
In 2008 it was 9.7 trillion — tripled in 14 years.
In 2004 it was 7.1 trillion. — quadrupled in 18 years.
In 2000 it was 5.7 trillion — quintupled in 22 years.
When was the libertarian moment?
Why didn’t anyone warn us about this?
Why didn’t more people vote for Perot/Paul/Johnson?
They were distracted by that giant sucking sound?
And the claim of hateful and racist rhetoric seems to come from several swastikas spotted in one crowd of protesters.
Now, maybe there really were random neo-Nazis joining in the protests, though it’s easy to imagine the swastikas was meant not as support for Nazis but as an absurdly hyperbolic but all-too-common point about the people passing vaccine mandates.
Right.
*shakes head*
Don’t forget the confederate flag.
the media needs to learn though that the confederate flag has come to mean resistance to government oppression and not support of slavery
It’s also a context thing. Confederate flag at a Klan rally , I think it’s fair to assume racism. Confederate flag while protesting COVID restrictions, well, it’s hard for me to imagine that their position is “Lift the restrictions and bring back Jim Crowe!”
As Tim Pool asked…why would a CANADIAN be waving a CONFEDERATE flag that has, literally, nothing at all to do with anything Canadian?
Is there any proof, at all, that this happened? Trudeau is quite obsessed with American media.
Nah. The swastikas and confederate flags were carried by the only properly masked people in the crowd.
The protesters were bare faced, hugging, shaking hands and being pointedly normal.
The people with swastikas or confederate flags were, at least some of them, dressed black bloc.
I think it’s clear who they are.
During protests for racial justice and police abuse, violent behavior and vandalism by a few has frequently been used by opponents to slam the whole movement.
There are two differences between the antifa / BLM riots and these.
1. The Antifa / BLM riots included vastly more violence and vandalism.
2. Antifa / BLM activists not engaged in these activities nevertheless encouraged and protected those involved.
Antifa/BLM riots had mainstream support, with major news outlets and elected officials not only excusing the violence, but explicitly demanding more of it.
True. And the January 6th riot had the support of Trump and several members of the Republican Party, and still does.
Killed far fewer people, caused far less damage, did not have Republican pols trying to bail them out of prison, did not have major news media claiming they were mostly peaceful…even though 1/6 very much was most peaceful.
What riot Jan 6? The only property damage was done by the feds
The only murders were by the feds too.
Another key difference:
After Jan 6 the right refused to show up for more protests, demonstrating their disapproval. After the antifa / BLM rioting began the left increased their participation.
>>these protests were not like the Black Lives Matter protests he supported.
grab a Moose, hoser. take off.
The protests have been peaceful and largely without incident—which makes reactions to them from media outlets and Canadian leaders especially odd.
It’s not odd. They’re terrified because they know that if the truckers get uppity everyone starves to death.
“The U.S. national debt topped $30 trillion, years ahead of schedule…”
The federal government did something ahead of schedule?
Damn. We should have told Congress that the national debt was an infrastructure project. Then we would have had decades of delays hitting the $30 trillion mark.
“CNN President Jeff Zucker has resigned from the cable news network, citing his failure to disclose a consensual relationship with a close colleague, according to an email he sent to staff on Wednesday . . . .
“Mr. Zucker’s departure comes as AT&T is preparing to spin off CNN parent WarnerMedia and merge it with Discovery Inc. to form a new company, Warner Bros. Discovery. Mr. Zucker had indicated he planned to stay at CNN at least through the closing of the deal.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cnn-president-jeff-zucker-resigns-citing-relationship-with-colleague-11643818528?
Market forces at work!
This is happening (almost certainly) because the CEO of Discovery Networks wants it to happen–just like the Cuomo being fired and Chris Wallace being hired.
As CNN is spun off with the other WarnerMedia properties to the new Discovery entity (and CNN+ launches), CNN will become more of a centrist news network meant to appeal to Americans across the political spectrum.
Ultimately, the reason CNN is being sold off is because their ratings stink. Nobody wants to pay to be spoonfed their bullshit anymore–not when they streaming revolution lets them subscribe to streaming services where they aren’t forced to pay for the shit CNN sell anymore.
Invisible hand wins again! Zucker didn’t have a chance against it.
I’m assuming Don Lemon will be the next to lose a CNN show. They announced him having a show on CNN+ and nobody watches him on CNN as is.
Still racial quotas…so he’s safe.
It is odd that a “news channel” has missed so many stories under its own roof.
I wonder if anybody there knows anybody whose job is to report on news…
The 2020 riots caused $2 billion in damage and several lives. It wasn’t just a few bad actors