U.S. Rhetoric Is Making Ukrainians Uneasy
Putin is the chief provocateur, but Washington isn't innocent when it comes to unnecessary escalation.
Three decades after Ukraine seized its independence from the crumbling Soviet Union, Russian President Vladimir Putin is insisting that Ukrainians are "essentially Russians." In fact, about 10 percent of the Ukrainian population is Russian.
This type of rhetoric from Moscow is not new. But with Russian troops gathering at the border, Ukrainians are understandably anxious.
Kyiv may be Putin's greatest sore spot, since he considers the Ukrainian capital the "mother city" of Russian history. He has even called Ukraine "an artificial creation of Soviet leaders"—a bold statement, considering the Soviets starved 3.9 million Ukrainians to death in the 1930s during the Holodomor.
"To Ukrainians, Russia has always been and remains an occupant—not a big brother," counters Maria Chaplia, co-founder of Ukrainian Students for Freedom. Chaplia doesn't deny that Russia and Ukraine have a shared past. But that doesn't mean, she says, that the two countries must be conjoined in the future. She points to the most glaring example of disunion: the 2014 Revolution of Dignity, when Ukrainians overthrew President Viktor Yanukovych for refusing to sign a trade agreement with the European Union. (Russia had opposed the pact.) More recently, Ukrainians have torn down Lenin statues, changed the names of cities, adopted an Orthodox Church, and elevated their native language. In one sign of the times, the local edition of Elle recently announced that it would now publish in Ukrainian instead of Russian.
But Putin isn't the only reason Ukrainians have been feeling nervous lately. He's the chief provocateur, but the U.S. and the rest of NATO have unnecessarily escalated the conflict too.
Secretary of State Antony Blinken says that Russia could attack "at short notice." President Biden believes such an invasion "would change the world." Vice President Kamala Harris says Russian aggression "will be met with serious, severe, and a unified response and consequences." Rhetoric like that prompted Ukrainian President Zelenskyy—the man they're supposedly helping—to urge the U.S. to tone down the war talk. Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reacted with more war talk: "I think you'd have to go back quite a while to the Cold War days to see something of this magnitude."
The doomsday talk isn't helpful. Zelenskyy is clearly grateful for the support his country has been receiving, but he is also warning the West against "inciting panic." As Ukraine's president, he stressed, "I'm located here. I know…deeper details." The U.S. should not undermine Ukraine's ability to chart its course by prematurely sounding the alarms. Panic is highly contagious, and Ukrainians don't need another pandemic on their hands.
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If Russia never invades, FJB and team D will never admit they were wrong and all the bellicose rhetoric will be memory holed. It is all a distraction from FJB's failures.
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Before the US coordinated the coup in 2014, to have a base of operations on the Russian border, a pro Russian president was democratically elected as head of state.
Ukrainians have always been Russian allies and extended families are on both sides of the border.
Western propaganda.
Even in the 30s dumbfuck?
The Bolsheviks coordinate atrocities wherever they have power.
He probably denies the UH Holodolmar too.
The Russian famine was perpetrated by the same Jewish Bolsheviks who overthrew the monarchy creating communism in 1917 the secret police and eventually the Cold War.
Jews and Freemasons like all satanists don’t define good and evil like the rest of us.
To them, it is completely understandable to do whatever they have to, to get whatever they want.
Statins mother was buried in a Jewish marked grave. He was a Freemason and probably a Jew.
Here’s what the JEWS have to say about THEIR ownership of Freemasonry!
THE JEWISH TRIBUNE, New York, Oct. 28, 1927, Cheshvan 2, 5688, Vol. 91, No. 18: “Masonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?”
LA VERITE ISRAELITE, Jewish paper 1861, IV, page 74: “The spirit of Freemasonry is the spirit of Judaism in its most fundamental beliefs; it is its ideas, its language, it is mostly its organization, the hopes which enlighten and support Israel. It’s crowning will be that wonderful prayer house of which Jerusalem will be the triumphal centre and symbol.”
LE SYMBOLISM, July, 1928: “The most important duty of the Freemason must be to glorify the Jewish Race, which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom. You must rely upon the Jewish race to dissolve all frontiers.”
AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY,Philadelphia, 1906: “Each Lodge is and must be a symbol of the Jewish temple; each Master in the Chair, a representative of the Jewish King; and every Mason a personification of the Jewish workman.”
MANUAL OF FREEMASONRY, by Richard Carlile: “The Grand Lodge Masonry of the present day is wholly Jewish.”
THE FREEMASON, April 2, 1930, quoting Br. Rev. S. McGowan: “Freemasonry is founded on the ancient law of Israel. Israel has given birth to the moral beauty which forms the basis of Freemasonry.”
Rabbi Br. Isaac Wise, in The Israelite of America, March 8, 1866: “Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end.”
Benjamin Disraeli, Jew, Prime Minister of England, in The Life of Lord George Bentick: “At the head of all those secret societies, which form provisional governments, men of the Jewish race are to be found.”
LATOMIA, a German Masonic journal, Vol. 12, July 1849, Page 237: “We cannot help but greet socialism (Marxism – Communism) as an excellent comrade of Freemasonry for ennobling mankind, for helping to further human welfare. Socialism and Freemasonry, together with Communism are sprung from the same source.”
BERNARD STILLMAN, Jew, in Hebraic influences on Masonic Symbolism, 1929, quoted The Masonic News, London: “I think I have proved sufficiently that Freemasonry, as what concurs symbolism, lays entirely on a formation which is essentially Jewish.”
O.B. Good, M.A. in The Hidden Hand of Judah, 1936: “The influence of the Jewish Sanhedrin is today more powerful than ever in Freemasonry.”
JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1903, Vol, 5, page 503: “The technical language, symbolism and rites of Freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and terms ... In the Scottish Rite, the dates on official documents are given according to the era and months of the Jewish calendar, and use is made of the Hebraic alphabet.”
B’NAI B’RITH MAGAZINE, Vol. 13, page 8, quoting rabbi and mason Magnin: “The B’nai B’rith are but a makeshift. Everywhere that Freemasonry can admit that it is Jewish in its nature as well as in its aims, the ordinary lodges are sufficient for the task.
The ADL (Anti-Defamation League) of B’nai B’rith is a totally Jewish controlled organization with its main goal to destroy Christianity. (Also, the B’nai B’rith form a super-Masonic lodge where no “Gentiles” are admitted.)
TRANSACTIONS OF THE JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY Vol. 2, p 156: “The Coat of Arms used by the Grand Lodge of England is entirely composed of Jewish symbols. FREEMASONS WORSHIP LUCIFER!
THE FREEMASONRY, Jan 19, 1935, quoting instructions by Albert Pike, who simultaneously was Grand Master of the Central Directory of Washington, Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Charleston, Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry: “That which we must say to the crowd is – We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, That you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees –
THE MASONIC RELIGION should be by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of THE LUCIFERIAN DOCTRINE. . . Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD.”
“Stalins” mother
It appears Biden's handlers and his left wing media propagandists have decided to escalate the narrative of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine (to distract Americans away from Biden's many disastrous policies, false accusations of racism, and overall weakness and incompetence).
If Putin is actually planning to invade or otherwise terrorize Ukraine, he'll likely wait until after the Winter Olympics ends in three weeks.
Since the NHL dropped out of the Olympics, the Russian men's hockey team is now heavily favored to win Gold. Putin wants to publicly savor that win, which won't be easy if dead Ukrainians and Russian tanks appear on television screens alongside celebrating hockey players.
In a made-for-Netflix movie, the Russians win the gold in hockey, and then a "Ukrainian terrorist" plants a bomb on the team plane and it crashes into an orphanage while landing in Moscow. If that doesn't justify an invasion, nothing will.
That would warrant more than a game misconduct.
Look at Shanny over here handing out 3-game suspensions.
Didn't think about Olympics, my first thought was he would wait till Super Bowl Sunday. With USA service members busy watching the game, it might give him a good jump to avoid any meaningful counterstrike.
I think your data is 20 years out of date.
"Putin is the chief provocateur, but Washington isn't innocent when it comes to unnecessary escalation."
BOFF SIDZ!!!
Yes, I think you have a point. One side preparing for a massive invasion and people on the other side pointing that out, are hardly any kind of equivalency.
If an arsonist is about to set fire to a house in the middle of the night and I start loudly yelling about it, then yes my comments probably are making the residents of the house 'uneasy'. But that doesn't make me culpable.
Putin is just rattling sabers. When he doesn't invade, the media will be praising Joe Biden for his "strong principled stand" and "he made Putin blink and avoided war." Joe's polls will spike up on peace, and Putin will neutralize Ukraine through election interference instead.
Where's Joe's Nobel Peace Prize already?
"Putin is just rattling sabers."
Hmm, I think that's wishful thinking at this point, but I do hope you are correct.
Ukraine is not part of the United States nor does it come close to bordering the United States. #nonintervention
Also not part of NATO.
Ukraine was screwed the moment they gave up their nukes in exchange for guarantees from the west.
I'm all for not getting the U.S. Military involved, but that doesn't mean U.S. Capialists can't send several tankers of Light Sweet Crude and Hank Hill's only affair on his wife (Propane) and Natural Gas. Not to mention greenhouse supplies so that Putin can never again do to them what Stalin did once.
Once Putin sees those, his fangs go in, his nipples droop, and he rides his war horse side saddle back to his lair. All with no loss of one U.S. life or even a Ukrainian or a Russian one.
Incidentally, whether the people of the Ukraine join NATO should be up to the people of the Ukraine--not Putin or Biden.
Biden is doing the right thing by refusing to agree that NATO will never expand to include Ukraine, but it shouldn't be his decision anyway.
At the very least, any deal he makes with Putin should be ratified by two-thirds of the Senate (rather than just Biden and Putin making a deal behind closed doors), but in no case should the Ukrainian people be shut out of the process--like the people of Czechoslovakia before World War II.
Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians. It isn't Putin's to take, and it isn't Biden's to keep or give away.
The United States should leave NATO and close all foreign military bases.
I remain persuaded that the NATO mutual defense treaty is in the best interests of the United States--and so is withdrawing from our bases in Germany and moving them to places like Lithuania and Poland. Until Putin destroys the last of his nuclear weapons, NATO will remain in the best interests of the United States. And the people who imagine that Putin would leave us and his neighbors alone if only we weren't a threat to him are just being naive and silly.
I thought the domino theory was bullshit back in the early 1960s and haven’t changed that view since. Russia isn’t going to invade the United States.
Europe has the population and resources to provide for their own defense. If they choose not to, it should not be the American taxpayer being fleeced by the military industrial complex picking up the tab.
It is naive and authoritarian, Bidenesque even, to play the world’s policeman.
Domino theory is bullshit, but Putin's designs on the Baltics and Poland aren't domino theory. We're not talking about the spread of communism in the third world. Putin has put his name to a document that alleges Ukraine is part of Russia. He's make the same argument in the same document in regards to Lithuania and Poland. Putin is trying to reassemble the boundaries of the USSR, and we are obligated by treaty to come to the defense of any NATO country that is attacked. I remain persuaded that this mutual defense treaty is the best means to avoid war. The only reason some would be criminals neglect to rape, rob, and murder is because they fear the negative consequences, and that is the only reason some world leaders don't start international wars. In order to avoid a war with Putin, it is necessary for him to understand that the negative consequences of attacking our allies will be severe.
Capitulating to rapists, armed robbers, and murders, and shoplifters is not the way to prevent police brutality, and capitulating to Putin is not the way to avoid war. Capitulating to criminals ultimately leads to police crackdowns, and capitulating to international aggression against our NATO allies will only lead to war--and not just in Europe. China, North Korea, and our allies in the Pacific are watching to see whether our commitments to our allies are real, too. And the consequences of convincing them that the negative impact of aggression against America's allies are few is not world peace. It's a recipe for America at war.
NATO held the peace during the Cold War, when the stakes were much higher than they are now, and there is no good reason to think the threat of a mutual defense treaty won't be as good now--so long as our enemies understand that our mutual defense commitments are real. Incidentally, telling everyone in your high crime neighborhood that you don't bother keeping a gun in the home probably isn't a good idea if you have a really big TV either--for all the same reasons. Peace against aggressors comes through legitimate deterrence--not capitulation.
You are free to go there and volunteer to play policeman. Leave MY flag off your uniform when you go.
Putting US troops across from Russian troops, thousands of miles from the US, gets us closer to a conflict that escalates into something nuclear.
Eastern Europe isn’t our neighborhood. It isn’t our county either. Not even our state or country. A different continent!
Russia is not attacking the United States. If Lockheed Martin shares fall due to non-intervention, tough shit. The crony capitalists and war boners can go kick rocks. They had a 20-year gravy train in Afghanistan.
"You are free to go there and volunteer to play policeman. Leave MY flag off your uniform when you go."
You seem to be missing the point that NATO is mutual defense treaty that was ratified by two thirds of the Senate.
In addition, you seem to missing the point that NATO is deterring a war that would draw in the U.S. eventually--just as NATO has done since we ratified the treaty in June of 1949.
If we pulled out of NATO, the war would start very shortly thereafter. I'm the one advocating the means to peace. If you want us to exit NATO, you're effectively arguing for war.
P.S. Defunding the police doesn't mean the end of crime either. It means a new crime wave--for the same reason that exiting a mutual defense treaty means war.
Like NATO would ever defend us.
https://www.gov.pl/web/national-defence/the-end-of-the-polish-mission-in-afghanistan
You seem to miss the point Ukraine is not in NATO nor is it part of the United States.
You seem to miss the point you are jumping to conclusions: “If a war starts there, we will be pulled into it.” Only if war boners and war profiteering defense contractor shareholders decide to get involved.
Thanks for continuing the police defunding strawman. USA =/ Europe. Let them fund and staff their own police. If they choose not to, then they are responsible for those consequences. Not the US taxpayer.
It’s just our continuing hero complex.
"You seem to miss the point Ukraine is not in NATO nor is it part of the United States."
You seem to be hearing voices.
I never advocated for a U.S. war with Russia over the Ukraine.
That's in your head.
Did you borrow Tony’s box of strawmen?
I was surprised to read that you seemed to think I was arguing for the U.S. to go to war over the Ukraine--when I never said that. I oppose the U.S. going to war over the Ukraine. They are not a NATO member, and it is not in our best interests to go to war with Russia over the Ukraine. It is in the best interests of the United States to let our defense contractors sell anti-tank and anti-missile hardware to the Ukraine. This will help deter an invasion, and make the costs of aggression much higher for Putin. The less aggressive he is against the Ukraine and the more costly the annexation, the less likely he is to go after our allies in the region, and the less likely he is to go after our allies, the less likely America is to go to war.
Reason has pointed out in a pqst editoriql that withdrawing from NATO and encouraging European nations to provide for their own defense would mean Rusdia would have to deal with multiple mini-Superpowers, not just one. This would be even more true now then when the Reason editorial was written during The Cold War against the former Soviet Union.
Come on Ken, Russia without nuclear weapons is just a frozen Saudi Arabia.
NATO is a criminal gang.
Bader Meinhof gang, Red Brigade.....both NATO created. Political assainations and bombings in Europe....NATO.
NATO is nothing more than gangsters.
Indeed! Close all foreign bases. Leave NATO. NATO will then be defunded to the point where it can no longer exist.
Washington has no business in Ukraine or anywhere else for that matter.
Defund the military.
First -- NATO should have a say too, and that includes the US and all other members.
Second -- better yet, the US should exit NATO and all foreign entanglements. I would go so far as getting rid of all treaties, all ambassadors, all embassies. If damned fools want to go hiking on the Iraq/Iran border, that's their business, and Iran would probably have left them alone if their hadn't been an Uncle Sam nose to tweak.
If foreign governments want US money, they can start a GoFundMe campaign and press their case directly.
Ukraine has repeatedly tried to join NATO.
Ukraine was making its case to join NATO when Trump made his infamous statements to Merkel about Germany not paying its fair share back in 2018.
And that the members are not doing their agreed-to part is a big reason why we should leave NATO.
Europe does not deserve to be our charity case.
There were some countries that were paying their fare share--and the Baltics and Poland were among them.
And we can address the problem of Germany by pulling out troops and bases out of Germany--but just because it isn't in our best interests to pay for Germany's defense budget doesn't mean it's in our best interests to leave NATO. There are some babies in that bathwater.
Incidentally, because there are some bad cops doesn't mean it's in our best interests to defund the police either. That's more or less the same thing.
I'd prefer a renegotiated agreement where we will work with countries who do their part.
That's what we're talking about.
NATO countries like Poland and Estonia have been abiding by their finance commitments the whole time. When Canada, France, and Germany were shortchanging us, Poland and Estonia were abiding by their finance agreements--in good faith. There was never a time when Poland and Estonia didn't meet their treaty obligations.
Germany has been taking advantage of our generosity for far too long, and although we're still obligated to defend them if they're attacked, we are not obligated to locate our bases within Germany. We should move those resources to places like Poland and Estonia--our real allies. And they remain our true allies because they really need us. You won't find Poland or Estonia working against our interests because they value our alliance. It's not like situation in Germany at all.
Meanwhile, NATO's mutual defense treaty has been the linchpin of peace since the end of World War II, and abandoning it would almost certainly draw the United States into a war that can best be avoided by standing by our treaty obligations rather than abandoning them.
Here's the data from 2018.
https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2018_07/20180709_180710-pr2018-91-en.pdf
Countries are supposed to spend 2% of the budgets on defense. In 2018, there were only six countries that did so (or came really, really close)
The United States
Greece
Estonia
The United Kingdom
Latvia
Poland
Lithuania
For the record, this is the way things usually go--when you're talking about these kinds of alliances. Look at the Delian League. The closer you got to Athens, the more the locals complained about the cost of paying into the alliance--because they felt relatively little threat from a Persian invasion. They would complain that the alliance was really about expanding Athenian power. The close you get to Persia, the more enthusiastic the cities were about not only paying into the alliance but stationing Athenian units within their harbors and within their borders. Because they were the ones under constant threat of Persian aggression.
So, yeah, if you want to hear taxpayers complaining about American Imperialism, don't look to eastern Europe. Look to Canada and Mexico. If you want to see people who are enthusiastic about their NATO membership, look to the countries that are butting right up against Russia. Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are probably our closest allies--along with the UK. Our interests are more or less the same, certainly in terms of deterring Putin from starting a war with our allies.
We do share the same language, culture and geographic location with Poland and the Baltic states so you do have a point there. And all four of those countries have come to our aid countless times.
The sarcasm in the first part falls apart in the second part.
"On Wednesday, June 30, soldiers of the 13th rotation of Polish Military Contingent in Afghanistan returned to Poland together with the commander, Colonel Paweł Pytko. Polish soldiers have been present in Afghanistan for almost 20 years. Over 33 thousand soldiers and employees of the Ministry of National Defense participated in the mission."
----Polish Ministry of National Defense
Poland is a steadfast ally.
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania all suffered casualties in Afghanistan.
Incidentally, the sarcasm in the first part of your comment doesn't hold up either. Mutual defense treaties aren't about shared language, culture, or geography. They're about shared defense interests.
https://www.gov.pl/web/national-defence/the-end-of-the-polish-mission-in-afghanistan
They aided the military industrial complex and the neocon military adventurists. Afghanistan was a mistake. Unless you are about to argue that the US invading then occupying was a good thing. But I don’t believe you’re going to defend Bush, Cheney, Clinton and Biden.
I wouldn't say Afghanistan was a mistake. It was, in fact, a war of self-defense. I'd say that they stayed there at least ten years too long. And the point wasn't whether we support the Afghanistan War. The point is that Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania came to our defense when we were attacked. They have fulfilled their mutual defense treaty obligations. The question was whether these countries did their part, and the fact is that they did. They went when we did, and they stayed there until the end, too. They have been true to their obligations under the NATO treaty.
Really? AS corn pop would say.."come on man".
NATO was formed for a very specific threat. To deter the Soviet Union from taking Western Europe (if you recall WW2 did not end in victory..Poland started the war with German occupation and ended occupied by the communists.
In 1991 NATO should have been shut down and our troops sent home. Who is NATO protecting now? What is the threat? Russia? with a GDP not much bigger than Spain? And as we have found out empires cost a lot of money. Money Russia doesn't have. What else is NATO for? Protecting Europe from an immigrant invasion? Keeping Europe "free." I would say the EU has other ideas. Ron Paul was right..time for us to come home.
The problem with that theory is that the Russians still have nuclear ICBMs. Nuclear ICBMs don't make conventional wars impossible. They practically make conventional wars unavoidable through proxies. Having allies on our enemies borders is a huge advantage. Throwing that away would be foolish. Once again, there's no good reason to argue with success. Because NATO successfully deterred a war with Russia since 1949 doesn't mean it was unsuccessful in deterring a war with Russia. I suspect the reason so many of you are critical of NATO is because you don't really believe its a deterrent to a direct war between the U.S. and Russia, but you should. Leaving NATO would almost certainly lead to war. If you imagine that a mutual defense treaty isn't a deterrent to war, it's because you're wrong. If you imagine that removing a deterrent to war makes war less probable, it's also because you're wrong.
Incidentally, whether the people of the Ukraine join NATO should be up to the people of the Ukraine--not Putin or Biden.
Ummmm...no. The members of NATO have a say in whether they wish to issue a security guarantee to a country that could trigger a war with another nuclear power. Just because the Ukrainians might want such a guarantee paid for with American blood and treasure is no basis for claiming we're on the hook for providing it to them.
Of course Ukraine shouldn't be inflicted on NATO against NATO's wishes either, but that isn't the issue at the moment. The issue is Biden and Putin negotiating over the future of Ukraine without the Ukrainian people having a say--like Chamberlain negotiating over whether Czechoslovakia would become part of Germany without any input from the people of Czechoslovakia. Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians, and whether NATO wants them is something to consider--after its determined whether the people of the Ukraine want to join NATO.
The news keeps treating this like the future of Ukraine is a decision for Biden and Putin to make. It is not. The proper place in the world for the Ukrainians is for the Ukrainians to decide--no matter what Biden deal Biden and Putin make. Meanwhile, the future of Afghanistan and Iraq was always for the Afghans and the Iraqis to decide--regardless of what George Bush, ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, or Saddam Hussein decided. The U.S. should decide based on its own interests, and if the Ukrainian people decide its in their best interests to be part of NATO, Putin probably won't be able to change that with an occupation.
P.S. The future of Vietnam was always for the Vietnamese to decide. The U.S. always makes its best decisions when it decides what's in its own interests, too. IF IF IF it's in the best interests of the United States to support the admission of the Ukraine into NATO, then that's what we should do--IF IF IF that's what the people of Ukraine decide that's what they want to do. The Baltics and Poland are in NATO because our best interests coincided--because that's what we wanted and that's what they wanted, too.
NATO is a treaty organization. If Ukraine wants to join it, the USA and other NATO countries would certainly have a say. The President and the Senate would have to accept the change to the treaty.
No one said otherwise. The question is whether Biden and Putin should be deciding whether Ukraine joins NATO--without any input from the Ukrainians.
"British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain met Adolf Hitler in Berchtesgaden on 15 September and agreed to the cession of the Sudetenland; three days later, French Prime Minister Édouard Daladier did the same. No Czechoslovak representative was invited to these discussions. Germany was now able to walk into the Sudetenland without firing a shot."
----Sudeten Crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland#Sudeten_Crisis
Of course NATO shouldn't be forced to accept the Ukraine against their will, but that isn't the issue. The issue is why everyone is talking about Biden and Putin negotiating on an agreement to never let Ukraine join NATO. The idea that Biden could or should make such an agreement--without any Ukrainian involvement--is stupid, counterproductive, illegitimate, and invalid. Whether NATO should be forced to take Ukraine against NATO's will isn't even under consideration.
Ken,
The Czech's had the most modern of all militaries even Germany. The Brits and French should have stayed out and watch at worst the war become a stalemate. The issue was it wasn't just Germany but Poland and other Eastern European countries that wanted part of Czech. It was a sort of nation. And in fact post cold war it broke up didn't it. Ukraine is honestly not our concern. The fact that our munitions are blowing up thousands of innocent kids in Yemen is more of a concern to me and should be to you. The cold war is long over. The real war is at home against the growing bolseviks/wokes..
Ukraine isn't a NATO member, and we shouldn't go to war to defend it.
Did I say we should?
That doesn't mean we don't have any interest there.
Putin has publicly described Lithuania and Poland as spiritually, culturally, and historically part of Russia--just like he has with the Ukraine. And Lithuania and Poland are most certainly NATO members in good standing. We have an interest in seeing that the negative consequences of Putin annexing the Ukraine will be devastating in order to frustrate any further ambitions Putin has towards the NATO members we are bound by treaty to protect. And that means allowing our defense contractors to sell anti-tank and anti-missile systems to the Ukraine.
The worse we make it for Russia in the Ukraine, the more likely it is that the U.S. won't go to war. You understand that the point of a mutual defense treaty is to avoid war, right? Because it is.
"The worse we make it for Russia in the Ukraine, the more likely it is that the U.S. won't go to war. "
What a repulsive war monger you've shown yourself to be. To restate your comment, 'The worse we make it for Russia in the Ukraine, the more likely it is that Russia and Ukraine will go to war. ' You want Ukrainians to sacrifice themselves in a struggle they're bound to lose, as American weapons manufacturers watch from the sidelines making a killing (in the business sense of the word.) To what purpose? To forestall the invasion of Poland and Lithuania that exists only in the neo con imagination.
NATO served its purpose and should be abolished. Soviet tanks are not going to cross the Rhine anytime soon.
As long as Russia has nuclear ICBMs it can point at us, NATO serves an important purpose.
The only legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights. The legitimate purpose of both the military and foreign policy is to protect our rights from foreign threats, and NATO remains integral to that mission.
Because NATO has been successful in keeping the peace since 1949 is not a good reason to think it's been a failure.
We're Joe Biden and Hilary Clinton and we approve of this message.
WE, that is the US GOvernment, solemnly pledged that the NATO boundaries woud NOT EVR extend to the Russian border. ALL pUtin wants is for that promise t be KEPT. That is not biden's choice, he is bound by a former and fmorml agrement by his prdecessors.
Putin does n NOT WANT the Ukraine. It is a mess, deeply entrenched in US style corruption, (in no small part becuse WE had a direct hand in the coup tht took out the previous president and installed the bidenesue doofus presently the figurehead in that country. Not to mention WAY upside down economically. The Ukraine wuld drag down the rest of Russia if invaded or annexed.
On the other hand, the Crimea has always been part of Russia, was split in the makeover of dotted ines on the maps when the USSR implded back about 1990 r so. They've wanted to rejoin Russia ever since, being originally a part of her. In point of FACT they alread HAVE rejoined Russia, US ike it or not Ukraine like it or not. Putin has pledged, like a good leader, to uphold THAT part of the status quo. HE is wanting to uphold HIS word. I believe it would be a good, no a VERY good thing, if our own leaders" were to exhibit at least that much integrity and perseverance. Promise somting, stand behind that promise and make it happen. Biden and COmany are NOT doing that.
NATO has outlived its original purpose which was to guard agasint the USSR continuing in its quest to overdake and subvert every little cuntrhy and people group they can. Thos days are gone, NATO
s days should join them.
WHY do our gummit insist on being the world's policeman. and the arbiter of all, everywhere, at any time? BUTT OUT. Nunya Bidniss.
The sad fact is that any border between Ukraine and Russia is a figment of everybody's imagination. No matter where it is drawn, it will be artificial and piss of people on both sides.
European borders in general are artifacts of political compromise. Poland and the Baltics have winked into and out of existence for centuries. Germans have lived on all sides of central European borders for centuries. The post WW I treaties created new countries with borders as nonsensical as the Mideast, African, and Asian colonies of European powers, even while the European borders were shifting around.
My libertopia would allow border parcel owners to shift their allegiance every election, whether an internal or external political jurisdiction change. Let people decide!
That is what Crimea did. And ostensibly what Donbas has been attempting.
And the world will live as one.
No. It won’t. But the people will be with whom they want given the choices they have on the table.
A6be
There was an EA6-B and an A6-E, but I've never heard of an A6BE.
Now do Mexico, California, and Texas.
I've notice teh MSM media is all about how anyone against war with Russia is now a Russian supporter example Tucker Carlson. Even Scientific American is now saying anyone who is not for war is a tool of Russia. now that is scary that SciAm came out with that article. WAR is coming and you better be on the right side of their opinion or else you will be charged with sedition and helping the enemy
Wow, how did that topic even come up in Scientific American?
Actual Scientific American headlines today:
"Russian Cyberattacks on the US Could Focus on Disinformation"
"When should you get a COVID test?"
"Not all patients with diabetes are treated equally"
"How a record-breaking heat wave fueled climate anxiety"
"How vaccines pave the way to economic health"
"What is a bomb cyclone"
"Most of us combine personality traits from different genders"
"Why Omicron is putting more kids in the hospital"
Scientific. lol. Personality traits don't come "from different genders." They may be more, or less, associated with the two genders. But they don't come "from" them.
I hope they indicated there are more than just two genders lest they face the suggestion by the White House to their printer and ISP that they be blocked from publishing such misinformation.
As I’ve mentioned before, I stopped reading their magazine when the editor’s blurb at the start of the January 2000 issue welcomed everyone to the new millennium.
Scientific American stopped being about science a long time ago. You had a bunch of far left liberal art majors who wanted to change the world starting in the 60's..slowly over time this group took over the media including yes science publications. Sad but true.
Look at the author and their background. That usually gives the answer to your question
Putin has no legitimate basis for making demands of the USA or NATO. Ukraine is a sovereign state, whatever the historical ties to Russia does not give Russia a claim against it. Much of Ukraine also had historic ties to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Whose claim should rule, other than the Ukrainians?
The Biden Administration's inability to act cool in a crisis, is worrying, they are not the competent actors they claimed to be.
I'd trust the mayor of a small midwestern town to negotiate more competently than Biden.
Which seems to be Hillary's plan, too.
"they are not the competent actors they claimed to be."
I'm shocked that there is gambling in this establishment.
You are free to enlist in the Lincoln brigade, get your kit and man the front lines.
Would people of Ukraine or Russia or any portions thereof be better off living as part of Ukraine or Russia? Both regimes are so shot full of corruption, who can tell?
Who cares? Not our business
If Biden feels the need to warn off Putin with threats--whether economic or military--he should do so privately. Threatening Putin publicly makes it harder for him to climb down. Granted, he may not want to climb down; maybe he has his heart set on invading. But noisy dick-waving is not the best way to handle this.
In 1956, Soviet tanks rolled over Hungary. Ike did nothing. In 1968, same with Czech and LBJ did nothing.
The Ukraine is not even eastern europe but asia. No strategic interest for the US.
I'm confused why certain groups of Americans with Russian or Ukranian background have an obsession with Russia? I can only surmise it is a little like Irish Americans who had a "warm spot" for the IRA ("old world grudges). And I find it again interesting the author pulls out 3.9M dead from the Holomodor. I've seen upwards of eight million. But politically perhaps that isn't allowable to estimate that high?
The Ukraine isn't American's concern. JQA had it right. Stop this insanity and stay home.
True words dude. Ukraine is one of the most crooked countries on earth. They've little to no involvement with America. Other then to the Obama administration and the surrounding power players. As it is these clowns that used Ukraine as a piggy bank. This is but more MSM BULLSHIT!!! Everyday.., 24/7... If MSM is pushing it... It IS but manufactured lies. The ark of the Liberal over the last 5-decades is disgusting. As these anti "the man and big government" have become the cheerleaders for BOTH!! F-ing gross is what it is.
The Phucko Knows
"I'm confused why certain groups of Americans with Russian or Ukranian background have an obsession with Russia?"
I think much of it comes down to religion. Putin sent troops into Syria when Obama resisted. Syria is probably home to the largest population of Eastern Orthodox followers outside of Russia and her border lands. Eastern Ukraine with its Orthodox population is more sympathetic to the Russian cause than Catholic western Ukraine.
"In 1956, Soviet tanks rolled over Hungary. Ike did nothing. In 1968, same with Czech and LBJ did nothing."
Because the West tacitly recognized the Soviet buffer zone. In the case of Germany, the West did intervene with the airlift to counter the Soviet blockade.
America has no business maintaining more than 800 bases around the world. We need to pressure Washington close every single one of them. Every one.
The other problem however, is the small hat tribe. The ones who had to bugger out of Russia after the collapse of the failed communist experiment. Some were sent to prison, some to America and the rest to israel.
The ones who went to America infested every political institution like the parasites they are,spreading their Talmudic/zionist cancer in every college, think tank and government agency.
These are the ones behind all this. They want Putin and Russia punished for losing.
Ukraine was the first step. The Maiden revolution was strictly a Zionist front with the aid of one of their own small hat tribalist, Victoria Nudelman handing out cookies to the neo fascists.
The Invasion of the Donbass region where tens of thousands were mercilessly murdered by these thugs in a war that was without a doubt engineered by the zios and Washington.
Putin probably could care less what goes on in Ukraine, the armpit of Europe.
It is , as usual, the west who continues to push for more wars, through the use of blatant propaganda, false flags and outright aggression which endangers the planet.
America need to leave NATO and the U.N. It needs to close ALL foreign bases and bring every one of our troops home to do what they were supposed to do: defend our borders.
US rhetoric: "Let's you and him fight."
Little wonder the Ukrainians are uneasy.