Sen. Sinema Savages Democrats' Shortsighted Filibuster Sabotage
Both parties want to kill the filibuster when they are in the majority, and that's exactly why it needs to stick around.

In an impassioned speech on the Senate floor Thursday afternoon, Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D–Ariz.) reiterated her opposition to nuking the filibuster, a maneuver she warned would only further undermine American democracy by clearing the way for lawmakers to pass divisive laws.
Sinema said she "strongly supports" two bills Democrats are trying to pass to overhaul the rules governing federal elections. She also decried Republican-led efforts to restrict voting in some states—efforts that she said "have no place in a nation whose government is formed by free, fair, and open elections"—and endorsed legal and legislative attempts to stop them.
But she doesn't think they're a good reason to roll back the filibuster. "While I continue to support these bills, I will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country," Sinema said. She added that the filibuster protects the country from "wild reversals in federal policy" and ensures that minority views are protected.
"Eliminating the 60-vote threshold will simply guarantee that we lose a critical tool that we need to safeguard our democracy from threats in the years to come," she concluded.
Sinema's been saying as much for months, but she has been back in the spotlight this week after President Joe Biden declared Tuesday that he was willing to kill the filibuster in order to pass that pair of election bills. Biden compared senators defending the filibuster—including Sinema and Sen. Joe Manchin (D–W.Va.)—to the likes of Confederate President Jefferson Davis and segregationist Gov. George Wallace.
Biden stressed that abolishing the filibuster would allow the majority to prevail in the Senate. But when it comes to overturning the filibuster, the majority is prevailing—Democrats have, at most, only 48 votes to change the rules.
In stark contrast to Biden's remarks, Sinema's speech offered articulate and nuanced reasons for keeping the Senate's 60-vote threshold for passing legislation.
She noted that each party's views on the filibuster seems to change each time the Senate majority does, making the 60-vote requirement either a "frustration" or a "safety net" depending on which side is in control. Democrats used the filibuster on several occasions to stop President Donald Trump's proposed policies, just as Republicans used the rule to slow President Barack Obama's agenda.
"What is the legislative filibuster other than a tool that requires new federal policy to be broadly supported by senators representing a broader cross-section of Americans?" Sinema asked. "Demands to eliminate this threshold, from whichever party holds the fleeting majority," have made political rifts deeper and wider.
Recent history bears that out. In 2013, then–Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D–Nev.) abolished the filibuster for lower-court judicial nominees, ostensibly to let Democrats confirm more of then-President Barack Obama's picks for the federal bench. How did that work out in the long run? President Donald Trump and a Republican-controlled Senate installed nearly as many federal judges in four years as Trump's predecessor did in eight—prompting liberals to howl about a conservative overhaul of the federal courts.
Republicans then took the next step, abolishing the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees. The result? The Supreme Court nomination and confirmation process became even more of a political circus.
As Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) warned Democrats earlier this week, abolishing the legislative filibuster will grease the skids for a future Republican administration to push through new policies that Democrats would otherwise be able to stop.
"There is also a reasonable chance Republicans will win both houses in Congress, and that Donald Trump himself could once again be elected president in 2024," he said. "Have Democrats thought what it would mean for them—for the Democrat minority—to have no power whatsoever?" If that future comes to pass, Democrats will owe Sinema an apology.
Perhaps the most important thing Sinema said during Thursday's speech had little to do with the zero-sum game of vote-counting in the Senate.
Calls to abolish the filibuster, Sinema argued, amount to one political party saying that it has the singularly correct vision for how American should operate.
She's right. Career partisans and true believers might want to do whatever is necessary to make their team win, but a healthy democracy relies on a diversity of views and a balance of opinions. The filibuster may not be able to survive in a political culture where every issue becomes a life-or-death struggle for power, but the debate over the filibuster has become a useful proxy for demonstrating why that sort of culture is corrosive. A democratic society functions only when one faction knows it can't single-handedly write the rules for everyone else.
In short, a senator should be able to support certain policy ideas while also recognizing that he or she won't always get the desired outcome. That's what Sinema is doing by refusing to smash the system to pass a bill she likes.
"When one party need only negotiate with itself, policy will inextricably be pushed from the middle towards the extremes," Sinema said. "It is clear that the two parties' strategies are not working—not for either side and especially not for the country."
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Psaki psobs
Expect an extra dose of sarcasm at her next presser.
Psaki psarcastically pscolds psinema.
Yup, laughed out loud on that one. Cheers!
Psaki psucks.
Pfuck Pjen Psaki.
Not with peppermint pattys
dick.
Well played.
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"to the likes of Confederate President Jefferson Davis and segregationist Gov. George Wallace."
Jefferson Davis - democrat.
George Wallace - dem ocrat.
Reason editors most voted for party in the 2020 POTUS election: Democratic
And if you read their statements they voted for them way more often on the past as well.
They are all single issue voters: drugs, sex work, or immigration. These are the D party wheel house.
You're nuts if you believe that. Almost all of the editors at Reason vote for the Libertarian Party candidates.
"Sen. Sinema Savages Democrats' Shortsighted Filibuster Sabotage"
She can't stand it. She knows they planned it.
How long before Phailing Phil goes full totalitarian?
I give him to the end of the month, then the mandates will come rolling in.
she's got this fuckin' thorn in her side.
I heard that she's gotta set straight this watergate.
i feel disgrace
because YA ALL IN MAH FAAAAACE
Democrats have a lot of fucking gaull to bitch about the fillabuster being a Jim Crow Relic, when they use it to stop Miguel Estrada because "he is Latino".
And I'm old enough to remember how republicans were evil and we had the gang of 6 etc and the media blasting republicans nonstop for trying to get rid of it all so democrats could stop minorities from being appointed to circuit courts.
The media and dems - Fucking Liars, all of them
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB106877910996248300
"He Is Latino"
Democrats used the fillabuster to stop minorities from being appointed, and they got a pass from the media and everyone else.
They are completely full of fucking crap when they complain the fillabuster is Jim Crow when it is used against them. The only time it has ever been used for Jim Crow is when the Democrats do it
Hell, the "Scandal" was that they left the email on the totally open part of the network and a Republican aide saw it and publicized it.
As somebody has said, when the news embarrasses Republicans, the information is the story. When it embarrasses Democrats, how the info was obtained is the story.
As somebody has said, when the news embarrasses Republicans, the information is the story. When it embarrasses Democrats, how the info was obtained is the story.
Most recent example - Project Vertias and Joe Biden's daughter's diary. Or, Joe Biden's son's laptop. Man, the media just be-clowns themselves on a regular basis. Really is amazing that anybody believes them at all.
Well it is only amazing if you ignore the fact that about half of the nation is oblivious to what is going on and many more are dumber than a bag of hammers.
A friend I have known for almost 40 years STILL thanks me regularly for opening his eyes to the false reality that his television, radio and movie choices sold to him for the first 25 years of his life.
Most Americans mean well but they are literally programmed by the crap that they get from morning to night from the media.
I prefer computer games. If I'm going to be propagandized and programmed, I at least want to enjoy it.
As somebody has said, when the news embarrasses Republicans, the information is the story. When it embarrasses Democrats, how the info was obtained is the story.
Hell, an entire political party had a four-year-long spergout over it after the Swamp Queen's advisor and her party hacks got their shenanigans leaked during a presidential campaign.
Yes - all the news was about "a hacking " of DNC email and not what those emails revealed: ghost writers at the major papers getting sign-off on puff pieces, etc.
Trump wanted to kill the filibuster, true, but Republican senators didn't, which is why it wasn't killed.
Came here to say this. Caustic orange man pushed for it, but the rest of the party was not on board. The killing of the filibuster has been massively the purview of the left.
You both beat me to it. POTUS Trump vociferously argued that the filibuster should be done away with. Senator McConnell refused.
Boehm is a fucking prevaricator, deliberately leaving out context.
You're a chump Boehm. And you are ugly. And you cannot fix either.
Are we at the point where Boehm is worse than Sullum? Sullum was so insufferable last year I stopped reading anything he wrote, but Boehm’s been such a disingenuous hack this month.
It is a running competition between the two of them for the 'Biggest Loser' Award.
Didn't the Republicans kill the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees though?
After Dems killed it for lower judicial nominees. Then filibustered Gorsuch.
You don't partially open Pandora's Box.
After Dems killed it for lower judicial nominees. Then filibustered Gorsuch.
Did they actually fillibuster Gorsuch? I wouldn't blame them if they did after Mitch simply refused to even allow hearings for Garland. Besides, you are forgetting why Democrats did that in the first place. The level of pure obstruction that Republicans were engaging in on Obama's nominees was intolerable to them. Once they took the Senate in 2014, they almost completely shut down lower court appointments. You can find the video of Mitch gleefully taking credit for that in a Hannity interview.
The Democrats killed the filibuster for lower judicial nominees prior to Garland's nomination. Don't be a fool.
That's not what I meant. I could have been more clear, but the Democrats got rid of the filibuster for lower courts and executive appointments before the 2014 election because of GOP obstruction. Then, after 2014, McConnell and the other Senate Republicans blocked lower court nominees almost completely, with the final insult being the treatment of Garland's nomination. Again, look up that video I was referring to if you don't believe that it was deliberate strategy to block almost all nominees in the last 2 years of Obama's second term.
What obstruction? The GOP didn't break any laws. They're just biting back after what the Democrats did. As damikesc said, you can't just partially open Pandora's Box. Don't be so obtuse.
I'll let someone else refute JasonT20 and certain other users below.
And from a 30K-foot 'both sides' view: You would totally expect a blowhard political outsider bent on draining the swamp to say "We can do away with the filibuster, right?" only to have his own party reply, "Uh, no." But Biden's been here for 40 yrs. of trying to eliminate the filibuster, he either knows he's full of shit, or is too senile to know he's full of shit.
Except it is even worse than that. Biden fully defended the filibuster whenever a Republican was President and had a GOP controlled Senate, but was lukewarm on it when it was a Democratic President with a Democratically controlled Senate. The same for Chucky.
B.
Agreed. And Dems only used it....carry the one...319 from 2019-2020.
She is probably the most useless senator out there, and that is saying a lot.
She'll be turfed out at the end of her term and either go be a highly paid lobbyist or a shill on a "news" network. What a waste of oxygen.
What a waste of oxygen.
Projection?
What a waste of raspberrys.
Oh, the senator didn't do what I wanted; therefore, she is useless and I shall treat her like garbage.
I laugh how much this comment so perfectly encapsulates the political discourse and political positioning in this country.
Raspberry Bidet
The kind you find at a second hand store.
Well played
Definitely not something you'd want to find at a second-hand store.
bitchy bitchy whine whine.
"She is probably the most useless senator out there"
She's the reason Schumer is majority leader. So, clearly, not that useless.
I have to say, it's absolutely deeeeeeeelighful that you fucks are dealing with your own "Maverick."
Poetic justice, Red. 🙂
Sucks to have a maverick, eh?
Because she has principals that don't match yours? I would say Schumer is the biggest waste. Sanders. Warren. You know the genius of the left that don't know anything about the real world. Just corporations are bad! (which they type on an Apple product which they allow made by slaves)
Your hatred of Sen. Sinema speaks well of her.
Imagine if we had a third party with 10 or 15 seats so that any legislation would require more than blind partisanship
+1
theres plenty of " blind" there.
Accompanied by " deaf" and " dumb"
"She noted that each party's views on the filibuster seems to change each time the Senate majority does, making the 60-vote requirement either a "frustration" or a "safety net" depending on which side is in control."
I wish she'd gone further and noted that Senators' opinions on all sorts of issues, from Build Back Better to the filibuster, tend to depend on how a Senator sees public opinion in his or her state. We're not talking about higher principles here, and this is as it should be.
If the people of West Virginia wanted the Green New Deal, Manchin would have supported Build Back Better. If supporting H.R.1 (and it iterations) were likely to help Sinema with the voters in Arizona, she'd be rationalizing why she supported it rather than why she opposed it.
The idea that the purpose of Senator is to represent the radicals in his or her party to the people back home is a very progressive idea--a posture that only progressives in deep blue states can successfully employ. Republicans sometimes get ahead of the people in their district or state, and it mostly becomes political suicide--with Justin Amash and Liz Cheney being recent examples.
If the people of Arizona don't want the filibuster lifted or the federal government dictating voting rules to the state of Arizona, Sinema is doing the right thing. I wish she'd just come out and say it, but suggesting that you should represent your constituents--rather than force them to do things against their will--may be one of the most evil things you can say from a progressive perspective. That's another reason why progressives are America's most horrible people.
This is theater. Sinema is a far left progressive. But she's smart enough to know that doing this will not help her get re-elected in AZ. She said clearly that she supports the legislation the Dems are proposing, she just doesn't believe in ending the filibuster. She's playing the long game. Watch, they'll start calling her Maverick soon.
Biden's handlers and Schumer know this was never going to happen. They're pandering to the far left that runs their party now; they're pretending to fight for these bills even when they know they're DOA. They've known all along that Sinema and Manchen would not support this. And, they've known the GOP would filibuster.
doing this = ending filibuster
They're pandering to the far left that runs their party now; they're pretending to fight for these bills even when they know they're DOA.
------
*GASP* you mean like the min. wage bill?
Of course they are. Manchin and Sinema are both safe in their seats. They can afford to say no, and the rest of the dems can wail and gnash their teeth over it, and blame Manchin and Sinema for the bills not passing.
As if Sinema will be successfully primaried in AZ by someone noticeably to the left of her.
I would go one step further and state they know it won’t pass and that is what they want…that way when they lose in the fall they can blame it on all those fascist GOP senators instead of having to admit it is because they are out of step with what most voters really want.
a healthy democracy relies on a diversity of views and a balance of opinions.
Liberty does not need a diversity of views and neither party has anything healthy to offer its cause, in spite of one being demonstrably less terrible than the other.
And we're not a fucking democracy.
Agreed on both counts. But if we keep calling the US a democracy long enough, it'll be properly redefined.
No such efforts exist you lying sack of shit.
See my comment above about redefining...
The Dems just cannot give up their racists ways. They just cannot believe blacks are smart enough to get IDs. So, they need their white, elitist saviors to help them. But it's conservatives and libertarians that are racists.
>> a healthy democracy relies on a diversity of views
maybe. are we a democracy?
Progressives think so. They weren't paying attention in civics class. They're authoritarians and don't mind being the 50% +1 that decides what to tell others. Well, except, when they are in the minority than they love the filibuster.
The self-described "Prada Socialist" is one of the sanest Democratic senators. That is how far off the rails the Democrats are.
It's especially laughable to hear Democrats complain that Americans can't get ID while increasingly demanding ID & Vax Pass to eat at a restaurant.
Sounds like insurrection to me.
Another Arizona senator once remarked that he believed his constituents sent him to D.C. to defend individual rights and support a smaller federal footprint in their lives, and that he wouldn't be stampeded by "polls," letter-writing campaigns, or constituent lobbying that urged he act otherwise.
Anything that slows down legislation is all right with me.
thats a main point of our system, so it cant run away like Bidets trying to make it do.
Fast= Dictatorship
As I've said before, efficiency of carrying out an agreed-upon task is to be praised, but deciding which tasks should be carried out by the state should be a slow and thoughtful process.
Filibusters days are numbered as well it should be.
Filibuster is not in the constitution - house has similar rules as the senate and has no filibuster. Filibuster is a INVENTION, to deny the voting majority the laws it wants. Time to stop hiding under the filibuster and vote for or against laws.
u r dum
You do understand the difference of the two houses and why one is called the deliberative house and the other the house of the people? And the fact that is why the legislative branch was created that way by the founding fathers? Because by your post it doesn't appear that you do understand this difference.
As many others that actually know history have said, the Founders did not write the filibuster into the Constitution. It wasn’t a thing at all for many years after the Constitution was ratified. And once it was recognized that the Senate rules could be used that way, it was rarely even threatened, let alone used. It has become targeted because of the escalating pure obstruction by the minority party of the moment well beyond historical use. And given that the most memorable historical uses of the filibuster were in service of racism, you should see why so many want it gone.
Obstructing your Marxism is a necessity. I highly doubt you will refer to the republicans as the majority party in a year’s time, when the democrats will most likely lose both chambers of congress. I also noticed you never mention who runs most of the states. Maybe you should look into that. Although I sure you won’t, as it doesn’t square with The Narrative.
How do you square that?
The majority of senators have decided not to get rid of the filibuster for over 200 years. It’s weird to say the majority isn’t respecting the majority.
The current majority does not have to respect a past majority. Not to mention that the filibuster was rarely used to outright block legislation for the vast majority of those 200+ years. People here seem to arguing that virtually everything in the Senate should be decided with only a 60 vote threshold.
why shouldnt it be decidedby majority?
I smell a rat.
U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 5:
Not only does the Constitution explicitly state that the Senate can make its own rules for process-- including a filibuster-- but in the same sentence it gives an explicit case where a democratic process can be something other than simple majority rule.
Dolt.
Sigh..
..Then the senate would alway have had filibuster…
https://ohionewstime.com/the-senate-did-not-always-have-filibuster/317046/
Democrats are already blaming their election losses in 2022/24 on the fact that they can’t pass this bill, meaning they’re supposed to have won in the future anyway.
It’s all according to plan. A stupid, stupid plan that only works on stupid, stupid people.
Yes because the voters of deep red West Virginia and reddish purple Arizona's na just want more progressivism. The logic of the left escapes me.
It's for their own good, if only they weren't too stupid and stubborn to understand that. So, progressives will just have to force it on them. It's a completely altruistic act.
Senator Sienna
Listen, as a gay Black conservative man who is GOPProud I’m perfectly happy with my association with fellow Republicans and average Joes like Caitlyn Jenner, Milo Yiannopoulos and Ye but I see it as progress that there are at least two prominent drag queens in the Democratic Party out there strutting for attention. You work that ass, Senator Sinema. Flaunt it, mama!
Try harder, Shrike.
You'll never be OBL.
Goddamn you suck at this.
each Sock needs a different Talking Point and they get confused..
Incivility seems to rule on this site today. That is a shame.
When she was in my state of AZ, I used to think Sinema was a certifiable commie.
I sure don't now. She shows real moral charater in Washinton D.C. And it isn't commie. I agree with all Boehm said she said about voting rights; which all sounded accurate about her to me.
Her stand for supporting the rights of the minority party with the filibuster is just excellent. I am stunned and pleased. As with Joe Manchin, the two stand as Horatios at the bridge against the great unwashed of Progressivism.
And for you name-callers out there: "Let's Go Brandon" works for me.
blow it out your ass, Troll
Youre second Troll today with that patronizing bulkshit.
.Try not being an insuffrable hypocrite.
You asswads on the Left own the Biden Dumpster Fire, now deal with it.
And dont pretend to be intellectual while you attack everyone else for being un civil.
Both parties want to kill the filibuster when they are in the majority, and that's exactly why it needs to stick around.
No. The filibuster does not "protect minority views." It allows a minority that lost the last election to block what the majority was voted in to implement. Aren't elections supposed to have consequences?
+1 Jason. the supposed bipartisanship it's defenders bring up has increased since the no-talking filibuster has been in effect and the excuse is completely false. If Manchin thinks it's the goal, why doesn't he have even 1 GOP vote for the voting rights bill by suggesting compromises including GOP favored vote security issues? The reason is because the GOP does not want to give the president a ":victory". Doesn't matter what the substance is, and these straight pparty line votes have increased and are the rule now.
Both Manchin and Sinema are fools or hypocrites defending something - bipartisanship - which has died under the current practices.
American voters should favor it's end so that a party having secured the Congress will have to put up or shut up or get rolled out next electeion. No more hiding without a debate or a vote. I'll take when the GOP is in power in the interests of good governance and because I have faith in American voters if the issues and the players are clear.
The voting rights bill is pure bullshit. There is no compromise to be had.
The voting rights bill is pure bullshit. There is no compromise to be had.
Yep. There's the kind of thinking that the world's 'greatest deliberative body' needs.
In this case it is the correct way of thinking. Just because there are two sides to something doesn’t mean the arguments are equal. In this case they’re not. The democrats side is horrible and must be stopped. Which is the correct Republican position. Compromising on garbage like this is why the US is turning into a shitty country.
When the democrats either change into a party that isn’t committed to turning America into a Marxist dictatorship, or replaced with a better party, there is no compromise to be had.
In this case it is the correct way of thinking.
And you didn't actually say anything about what that thinking is, let alone why it is correct. You are cheering your team, not debating policy.
The correct thinking is that this bill is unconstitutional, and will allow democrats to legalize ballot harvesting and many activities that currently relate to election fraud.
Why is it unconstitutional? Explain.
And what in the bill has anything to do with ballot harvesting? And is it really ballot harvesting to allow another person that you know to take your ballot to a mailbox or a drop box? I can see not allowing one person to handle the ballots of many people, especially by organized groups, but asking a neighbor or someone in your household to drop off your ballot for you to the mailbox or a drop box shouldn't be an issue. And what other election fraud possibilities would the bill open up? Perhaps voting in two states like the four people from The Villages in Florida are charged with doing? Perhaps you didn't hear about that on right leaning media, given that The Villages is a huge and heavily Republican retirement community. Three of the four were registered Republicans, and the fourth had pro-Trump messages on his social media. Why the assumption that only Democrats would commit fraud?
You're still too light on specifics.
'It's' is a contraction combining the two words of 'it' and 'is.' 'It's' is not possessive. If you're going to try to pretend to be smart, please try harder. It is already hard to take you seriously, but it is damn near impossible when you cannot get third grade grammar rules correct. I have a third grader, so I know when they learn the rules. You are seriously damaging your credibility.
You should have seen him when I was trying to explain how simple probabilities worked. It's obvious math wasn't mastered in grade school either.
If majority of voters no longer get the laws they want,
What is the point OF HAVING A DEMOCRACY???
A view more people will start to get.
Constitutional republic Democracy
Please cite your reference in the US Constitution where a "democracy" is specified.
We have never had a democracy. We are a constitutional republic.
Were.
Were.
And its looking like Cartrudge Box time.
precisely zero if a democracy.
The problem is a disconnect in either case, where not only arent the Reps representing, but flat out are derelict in their duties, bought and sold.
"When one party need only negotiate with itself, policy will inextricably be pushed from the middle towards the extremes,"
Sort of like what happens in party primary elections where the focus is on who can be the most extreme, rather than who can actually win a general election and govern a society that truly is diverse (and not in the current political newspeak meaning of "diverse").
Oh no, she looks like Hillary II.
Just without the snake coming out of her mouth and Gin bottle in her hand.
Ol Biden cant get a break, hes getting screwed up the ass like Buttigegs hubby- wife or whatever perverted thing that is.
If Numbnuts Biden is all up in mandating, how about he mandate dock and shipping workers get back to it to alleviate shortages?
Or is Trump 24 going to have to fix that Dumpster Fire also, after sending Crying Hillary to the wood shed for a second time?
Some man just pulled up in a CNG car..
Virtue signalling by the local Utility district.
If that tank exploded, he would turn into Pizza the Hut and theyd be scraping goop up to ID him by DNA.
One went off in Seattle.
Oh now Biden threatening to take covid money back.
More EXTORTION like he did with Ibizo to threatening Ukraine if they didnt kiss his political ass.
Ummm, in case anyone is wondering, gasoline is pretty flammable too. You can make a lot of horsepower with LNG, but it isn't without hazards, just like gasoline and lithium batteries. If your fuel tank or batteries explode, whatever flavor they be...it'll be a bad day. Stored potential energy and all that.
Ah the exploding gas tank LIE.
Youre trying to correct an automotive engineer..
Abd trying to contradict me by changing the topic.
FAIL.
Gas tanks DO NOT explode. Thet contain only fuel vapors, no air for combustion.
NG tanks at 3,000 psi in spun fiber tanks are BOMBS just sitting there in the parking lot.
Deadly.
We get public policy and legislation being jerked back and forth so that people and businesses can't reliably plan for the future already when one party or the other gets into power. Eliminating the filibuster would just make it worse.
Future? Not with Biteme in Orifice.
Welcome back to the I-bama/O'biden Welfare State.
Lie:
"—efforts that she said "have no place in a nation whose government is formed by free, fair, and open elections"
.Reframing Fail.
This Nations founded on Individual Rights and the CONSTITUTION.
The US Govt was NOT formed by popular vote.
Can we think if an example of Third World Shithole nations formed by " popular elections?"
Venezuela?
daveca,
Popular elections control all western democracies. Pointing to Venezuela is hyperbole that doesn't help you, because it is so clearly not analogous to the U.S or any other First World nation. The separation of powers and checks and balances in the Constitution may be unusual among democracies, but what we see that is the most threatening of the continuation of respect for individual rights in democratic countries is nationalism, not socialism.
An increasingly exploited loophole in a rule created entirely by accident that has rendered Congress incapable of passing, or repealing, laws except when
a) The country will literally fall apart if they don't, or
b) The Pentagon wants 10 gazillion dollars for more bomb machines
I missed the libertarian argument for the filibuster, but I'm sure it's in here somewhere.
Part of the libertarian argument is that it keeps a non majority (like we have now) from ‘fundamentally transforming’ this country and destroying our constitutional republic. If you don’t like that, I can suggest a number of socialist dystopias you will find more to your liking.
How do we have a "non majority"? Because the Senate is 50-50? Whether Democrats have 50 + tiebreaker or 59 seats, the filibuster would enable the side that didn't win a majority itself to block what a majority of voters chose in the last election.
Besides, ordinary legislation within Congress's powers cannot 'fundamentally transform' the country and 'destroy' our constitutional republic. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help your argument. And as for "socialist dystopias", Cuba, Venezuela, and so on are also far past what anyone is proposing. The U.S. is basically the only western democracy that allows something like the filibuster to enable the losing side of an election to block the initiatives of the winning side. And it is also the only western democracy that has the kind of unequal representation that the Senate has with its two Senators per state, regardless of population.
Add up the votes cast for Democratic and Republican candidates for the Senate for the last three election cycles, and you'd see a huge advantage for Democrats. (141,552,752 - 115,364,239). Admittedly, that's not a perfect measure, since there's duplication for each state having two senators and it was different times, but with that kind of difference in votes received, how does it make sense for the Senate to be split 50-50? 2020 was the only cycle where Republicans actually got more votes for the Senate than Democrats (49.3% to 47.0%), and that is due to which states were up. (Republicans won 20 seats to Democrats' 15).
Joe Biden received 7 million more votes than Donald Trump, yet ~40k votes swung in the right states and Trump would have been re-elected. The last three election cycles for the Senate were Democrats +10.8%, Democrats +19.5%, and Republicans +2.3% of the votes cast and yet the Senate is 50-50. How can anyone say that Democrats aren't representing the will of a majority of the voters?
Republicans simply haven't won majority support of the whole country many years, and yet they still have the ability to block the will of the majority now. That should be seen as bizarre by any objective viewpoint.
Worse - they can frequently be the majority law makers despite being the minority receiving votes.
Tyranny of the majority is a bad thing. Tyranny of the minority is worse.
Your analysis is flawed and irrelevant. Maybe you should enroll in a civics class. We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic. If you don’t like that, move to Canada.
We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.
You just got to love how some people get pedantic about this. It is only a sign of trying to cover the weakness of their position. "Democracy" is a common term used broadly for people voting on things. You dodged the question I asked about how Democrats constituted a "non majority".
Representative government of any specific type is not going to function well when one side gets more power than the real support that they have among the population.
"If you don’t like that, move to Canada."
Canada seems like a fairly decent place to live, despite being really cold. But the "love it or leave it" attitude you are displaying is not how it works. We are both citizens of this country, so we both have equal say in how the country is governed and equal rights to speak our minds. It is you that needs the civics lesson.
The basic fetish that libertarians have for the filibuster is that it produces gridlock. They think that is a good thing because they don't want the federal government to do anything. That is simply not the way it has worked out, though, because gridlock in Congress is one of the main reasons that the executive branch has grown in power over the last two decades.
Of course, the other main reason that has happened is that Congress won't adequately check the power of the President when they are of the same party. That was a flaw in the Founder's design. Not fully anticipating the role that political parties would play in government, they incorrectly thought that the separation of powers and checks and balances would hold up between Congress and the presidency. But partisanship has disabled a lot of what they thought would keep that balance.
The simple truth is that the vast majority of voters want the federal government to do things. They just disagree over the specifics of what they want it to do and what they don't want it to do. A consistent libertarian view on federalism and limited government is just not very popular. Even most of the commenters around here that talk up libertarian ideology are selective about when they will stick with it and when they will chuck it for they want.
Not me. I want the federal government (and my state & local government for that matter) to stay out of my face. Which is why I'm a conservative / libertarian and you (admittedly) are not.
What does it mean for the government to "stay out of [your] face"? That's a slogan, not policy.
Consistent libertarians would want to eliminate SS and Medicare, for one thing. How popular do you think that would be among the working class and middle class Republican base that skews older?
How does it square with libertarian principles to tell businesses that they can't insist that their employees get vaccinated? To tell companies that have media platforms that they have to let candidates and politicians say whatever they want on the platforms that they own?
How does it square with libertarian principles to "back the blue" and look to keep the status quo on police accountability (the lack of it, I mean)?
Conservatives and libertarians don't see eye to eye on quite a few issues. To say that you are "conservative / libertarian" is mixing ideologies that aren't compatible in some important areas.
"eliminate SS and Medicare"
A-OK by me.
"tell businesses that they can't insist that their employees get vaccinated"
You're right -- such legislation is in no way libertarian. I'm opposed to it.
"companies that have media platforms"
Sorry, disagree with you on that one. There's both a legal and a philosophical case for changing the status quo. There've been lots of posts about this on Volokh Conspiracy.
"back the blue"
If you are anti-police, you are not a libertarian -- you're a moron.
"To say that you are 'conservative / libertarian' is mixing ideologies"
No, it isn't. See here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
"eliminate SS and Medicare" - A-OK by me.
Good for you, but it doesn't speak to my point about how unpopular it would be with Republican voters.
"companies that have media platforms" -
Sorry, disagree with you on that one. There's both a legal and a philosophical case for changing the status quo. There've been lots of posts about this on Volokh Conspiracy.
I agree that the status quo should be changed as well, but that isn't what I was saying. The Florida GOP passed a law that would require internet platforms to keep up the posts by candidates for office basically no matter what they said. I don't think that broadcast TV and radio have to air virtually any ad that a candidate wants. I mean, I think perhaps that they have to offer equal time at the same price to all sides, but would they have to air an ad that was outright anti-semite or something?
The problem I see with social media is their algorithms that draw in users to engage with content (and thus make it more likely to click through ads, boosting revenue). As it relates to politics and similar issues, they enable and even create echo chambers. Generally, that may be a basis for revising Section 230.
If you are anti-police, you are not a libertarian -- you're a moron.
Wanting accountability and reform is not "anti" police. Reason regularly posts articles about police misbehavior and other problems. This issue should be important to anyone that wants to limit government power.
"To say that you are 'conservative / libertarian' is mixing ideologies" - No, it isn't. See here:
"In the United States, classical liberalism is mainly conservative in economic issues, refers to cultural liberal tendencies in issues including LGBT rights or abortion..."
To be conservative in the U.S. includes social conservatism, and has for several decades. Conservatives and libertarians share views on economics, but not everything. I already pointed out the differences over policing, but the "fusion" between them doesn't stick as well when it comes to cultural issues either. Besides, if they were really the same thing, then why have two terms? If by "conservative/libertarian" you simply meant that you shared some views with each, then that's fine, but they are clearly not the same thing.
"Good for you, but it doesn't speak to my point about how unpopular it would be with Republican voters."
No, it would be unpopular only with Republican voters who have paid into it their whole lives and would be denied their return. I would be okay with doing away with it but that's easy for me to say--i haven't been paying into it for the last 40+ years. Hmmm, it's almost like any spending has immense pressure to never go away.
"The Florida GOP passed a law that would require internet platforms to keep up the posts by candidates for office basically no matter what they said"
Sounds like desperate, frustrated, reactionary legislation made in the heat of the moment, rather than principled thought. There are plenty of moments where I'd be up for sticking it to the tech companies when I'm thinking with my lizard brain.
"To be conservative in the U.S. includes social conservatism, and has for several decades."
What policies are being debated among conservatives that would limit the rights of LGBT people? And I mean limiting rights, not giving them extra rights others don't have.
No, it would be unpopular only with Republican voters who have paid into it their whole lives and would be denied their return. I would be okay with doing away with it but that's easy for me to say--i haven't been paying into it for the last 40+ years. Hmmm, it's almost like any spending has immense pressure to never go away.
Social Security was always pay as you go, where current workers support current retirees. It is a misconception that your benefits are derived from what you personally paid into it. Yes, that does set it up as a system that would be really hard, politically, to eliminate. And, that was likely the intent, though I'd have to look at the history to be sure.
That said, the point here is that ideology becomes selective when that kind of self-interest comes first. It loses a lot of its usefulness to developing good policy when it bends that easily.
Sounds like desperate, frustrated, reactionary legislation made in the heat of the moment, rather than principled thought. There are plenty of moments where I'd be up for sticking it to the tech companies when I'm thinking with my lizard brain.
Sounds like we agree there. The problem is that politicians are getting rewarded for passing "lizard brain" legislation as opposed to thoughtful, well-researched laws that actually have a chance to make people's lives better. Too many legislators and governors (many on the GOP side, but not exclusively, by any means) are "performance artists", as Rep. Dan Crenshaw put it. The goal is to get attention, not to govern well.
What policies are being debated among conservatives that would limit the rights of LGBT people? And I mean limiting rights, not giving them extra rights others don't have.
Ever since I became an adult three decades ago, I had the expectation and right to marry someone that I would be romantically interested in. (I've never been married, though.) Had I chosen to get married, I would have had no problem getting a marriage license. No county clerks would have objected and refused to sign one because they didn't believe that I should have the right to get married. No bakeries would have refused to bake a cake for my reception for the same reason. But until fairly recently, a gay person had none of those rights, because religious conservatives insisted on denying those rights to them. They did that through law, policy, and the simple refusal to acknowledge that they have a right to be who they are.
LBGT rights are the same rights that everyone else has. I do not see anyone insisting on giving them "extra" rights.
Not that giving us our 40 acres and a mule would have been some great affront to civil order.
"I may exploit and demean you for thousands of years, and the instant you get equal rights, I'm suddenly concerned about any microscopic bit of unfairness."
I agree with all this, and I would add that it's a fallacy to believe that government "doing nothing" is actually that, and even less automatically more liberty-positive. Cementing in place the status quo just means affirming a bunch of government programs. You can no more pare back government than you can add to it with a Congress that is incapable of functioning.
Looks to me like the overall Senate map favors republicans pretty strongly and this makes for a great opportunity to 'help' the democrats into a hole. Sign on to 'helping' the democrats eliminate the filibuster, accept 1-3 years of pain, and then go to town.
They can even brag about how bipartisan they're being!