Afghanistan

Was It a U.S. Drone or an ISIS Attack That Killed 3 Adults and 7 Children Outside Kabul?

The deadly Sunday explosion is a reminder of the hundreds of civilians U.S. strikes have killed in Afghanistan.

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U.S. military officials said Sunday that they had launched a drone strike destroying a car full of explosives and killing ISIS-K suicide bombers headed toward the international airport in Kabul. Also on Sunday, a family living in Khwaja Burgha, a neighborhood west of Kabul, said a drone missile struck the car of Ezmari Ahmadi, a civilian working with a food charity, in his driveway, killing him, two other adults, and seven children.

One of the dead, The New York Times reports, was a contractor who assisted the U.S. military during the war and came to Kabul in the hopes of being evacuated from the country.

Were there two drone strikes? Was U.S Central Command spokesman Bill Urban mistaken when he declared his confidence that the U.S. had "successfully hit the target" and that "significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material"? Was the family mistaken about the origin of the explosive that killed Ahmadi and the children? The Los Angeles Times was able to send two journalists to see the wreckage, where they determined that the blast was consistent with a missile strike of some sort but could not conclude more than that.

Urban has now put out a statement that the Pentagon is now investigating these reports of civilians killed, neither confirming nor denying that a U.S. strike might be responsible. "We would be deeply saddened by any potential loss of life," he said.

We don't have answers as yet, and it's not clear when, or if, we'll get them. But it says a lot about the many problems of America's war in Afghanistan—and in other countries—that we cannot automatically determine whether Ahmadi was struck by one our drones or by the other side.

Over the past 20 years, the U.S. has launched more than 13,000 drone strikes in Afghanistan. We don't really know for certain how many people have been killed, let alone how many of those people were civilians and not terrorists. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism tracked the drone war in Afghanistan up until February 2020. It calculates that between 4,000 and 10,000 deaths in Afghanistan were from drone strikes. Of those, it says, between 300 and 900 were civilians and somewhere between 66 and 184 were children.

These wide variances in these estimates reflect the lack of transparency and reliable data. It wasn't until the last couple of years of President Barack Obama's administration that the Pentagon even provided data about drone strikes. And then President Donald Trump's administration ended that practice.

Even when the U.S. government did provide data about drone strikes, the information was not trustworthy. Whistleblower Daniel Hale revealed that it was the practice of the United States to declare anybody killed by a drone strike to be a suspected militant or enemy until proven otherwise. And it was unfortunately very easy for these strikes to go wrong. Hale himself detailed a strike he was involved with that failed to kill the target, an Afghan man suspected of making car bombs, and instead killed the man's young daughter.

A lot of potential variables can lead to civilian deaths. In Hale's story, the targeters were not aware when they tracked the man as he was driving that his wife and two daughters were in the vehicle with him.

Hale wrote this story to a federal judge as he was throwing himself on the mercy of the court. He was sentenced to 45 months in prison, not for revealing secrets to our enemies, who are most certainly aware at this point of the drone strikes and how they work, but for revealing them to the American public.

Let's be clear: The reason yesterday's drone strike is getting major play right now is because of the ongoing evacuation. The drone strikes have been going on for decades like this, often killing civilians, and barely getting any attention in the United States.

Pulling out of Afghanistan should include ending the drone campaign as well. But even repealing the 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force won't likely require the military to pull out the drones. And that's unfortunate, because—outside of this window during the withdrawal—most Americans just don't seem to care when drone strikes kill innocents. In 2012, a former director of national intelligence, Adm. Dennis Blair, pointed out the political advantages of relying on drone strikes: "Low cost, no U.S. casualties, gives the appearance of toughness. It plays well domestically, and it is unpopular only in other countries."

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  1. No no Bill Maher assured us that everyone wants to come here we’re not the enemy!

    Anyway your choice for president old man Biden isn’t working out so well there.

    1. Cognitively Incorrect should be the show’s new name.

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    2. Yes. Yes it was. But a small price to pay for Biden to look like he has some semblance of a penis.

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  2. The question of if the drone strike killed civilians or not could be solved in two seconds by the military just giving the exact time and coordinates of their strike. The strike is already over and they boasted about it on the news, there is no OpSec excuse to not release time and location information.

    1. The “drone strike” bears a lot of resemblance to my “100% effective anti-lion spray”. So long as you give no details, it will never be disputed and nobody can prove you’re wrong or lying your ass off. Hell, this sounds like the cheap-ass version of Wag The Dog, minus any budget for Dustin Hoffman and Robert De Niro.

      “Let’s be clear: The reason yesterday’s drone strike is getting major play right now is because of the ongoing evacuation.” No, the reason it’s getting a lot of play is because Biden needs the sound of winning one before leaving the room. The Biden supporting media is all too happy to comply without a shred of evidence.

      Yea for our leaders! Biden is now “tough on terrorism”, which by the logical standard we should all be applying and wipes out his entire incompetence in ignoring the withdrawal protocol that anyone from corporal on up understands, non-coms first, equipment second, blow the shit out of that which remains, military last while covering your flanks and rear.

      Was there a drone strike? Who the hell knows. People in the military are not allowed to contradict their superiors, and if they did, the superiors would say it the outspoken individual wasn’t part of the hit team.

      Who did they hit? Apparently they hit whoever the official line says they hit whether that person exists or not. Prove otherwise.

      Did they accomplish their mission? 100% perfection in every way. This from the same people who said they planned for every contingency. Prove otherwise.

      Does it strike anyone odd that we suddenly had so much information about where was da bad guys, where they were, what they were doing, and how to hit them? But of course ONLY after we had withdrawn all air support, all ground support, and had evacuated or discouraged any and all on the ground intelligence that could have given that much up to the minute information.

      1. “Does it strike anyone odd that we suddenly had so much information about where was da bad guys, where they were, what they were doing, and how to hit them?”

        Yes, it strikes everyone who isn’t blue anon as both odd and implausible.

      2. I’ve questioned the veracity of the information if both strikes.

        1. Either way, the blood is on Biden’s hands. He might as well have killed them himself.

  3. “Low cost, no U.S. casualties, gives the appearance of toughness. It plays well domestically, and it is unpopular only in other countries.”

    So some golliwogs we don’t even know or care about are collateral damage. Must be why it doesn’t go over in those “other countries.”

  4. Whistleblower Daniel Hale revealed that it was the practice of the United States to declare anybody killed by a drone strike to be a suspected militant or enemy until proven otherwise. And it was unfortunately very easy for these strikes to go wrong.

    Yes it is. And even if the strikes don’t go wrong, the reality is that in a tribal society, everyone who doesn’t have ‘terrorist’ tattooed on their forehead is by default a civilian. Which is not only why we don’t win hearts and minds…

    the political advantages of relying on drone strikes: “Low cost, no U.S. casualties, gives the appearance of toughness. It plays well domestically, and it is unpopular only in other countries.”

    We create blowback. Because everyone in those countries knows what we did – and no one in the US knows or cares – so when someone responds the only way they can – by attacking innocent unarmed civilians here – we have no idea why they did that. But clearly they are terrorists – so let’s set up the video wargame from a distance – Rinse and Repeat

    1. You have pics? Seriously, where’s the evidence besides some Pentagon spokesperson reading a press release about what someone somewhere says we did? How did this happen exactly when we have zero ground or air intelligence in country anymore? If they did it at all, they could have hit a couple of grannies on the way to market and nobody would be the wiser.

      I could put out a similar statement about my own superpowers and obscure bad guys I’ve killed in obscure regions of hostile countries, and with as many details, nobody could prove otherwise.

      Wag The Dog comes to mind but without Dustin Hoffman and Robert De Niro starring, nobody would suspect it’s just a script.

    2. Without airstrikes and without ground troops,how do we respond to terrorist threats and or activities against the US, then?

      1. Sternly worded letters.

        1. Signed by 100+ nations.

  5. Why do I have an anxious feeling that we just droned an entire family, and that the Pentagon is either straight-up lying or at least playing fast and loose with the facts?

    Numerous videos from airborne US military platforms have been released over the years of other drone strikes, no reason why the same can’t happen here.

    1. Paging Chelsea Manning.

    2. No one has ever caught Jen Saki in a lie of any size.
      OK, maybe just in the one case where she opens her mouth to speak.

      1. Well, it is a rare occurance when she says anything other than ‘I’ll have to circle back to you’.

        1. She rarely, even when she doesn’t circle back, actually answer the question posed to her. Today she stuck as tight to the script the Whitehouse wanted as Biden does, difference is she doesn’t need a teleprompter to do so.

          1. “What I can tell you is that as I’ve said in the past and remains the case, and as the president has always maintained, is that the answer to your question is self-answering and obvious to those of who are interested in truth-saying and transparency in government on a level never seen before in the US in such a way as to bring forth equity and understanding, and some other word salad I can’t remember.”

            1. Pretty much what she said today when asked about mistakes, and the 250 Americans left in Kabul, that they admit are in Afghanistan still.

      2. No one has ever caught Jen Saki in a lie of any size.
        OK, maybe just in the one case where she opens her mouth to speak.

        Just like Trump’s Mara Lago Barbie?

    3. “Why do I have an anxious feeling that we just droned an entire family, and that the Pentagon is either straight-up lying or at least playing fast and loose with the facts?”

      Because you should be suspicious that anything the government tells you is a lie.

      1. But this is the Biden administration… America is back.

    4. Everyone except Blue Anons has been calling out the claims that this (and the previous) airstrike hit “ISIS K” as bullshit from the moment they were reported.

      1. Nardz
        August.28.2021 at 1:11 pm
        Flag Comment Mute User
        I’m sure these were totally not just random people/places hit to say something was done…

        https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/us-says-it-killed-planner-behind-kabul-airport-attack-targeted-drone-strike

        The Pentagon’s adamant refusal to name the targets of the drone strike is perplexing in light of the Biden admin’s eagerness to give out “kill lists” which reveal the names of American citizens and Afghan allies to the Taliban.

        The U.S. Central Command initially said one person, described as an ISIS-K planner, was killed in a counterterrorism operation in Afghanistan’s Nangahar Province, east of Kabul. That person was suspected of being involved in plotting future attacks, but had no direct link to Thursday’s assault in Kabul, according to a U.S. official. That number has now been increased to two

      2. Nardz
        August.29.2021 at 10:47 pm
        Flag Comment Mute User
        https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/explosion-rocks-kabul-rocket-reportedly-hits-house-near-airport

        Update (1605ET): The Associated Press is reporting that three children were killed in a Sunday drone strike on a vehicle in Kabul, which American officials say was carrying “multiple suicide bombers.”

        An Afghan official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said three children were killed in the drone strike. Afghan officials had initially reported a rocket attack separate from the drone strike but it turned out to be the same event. Video obtained by The Associated Press showed smoke rising from a building around a kilometer (half a mile) from the airport. -AP

        Family denies being ISIS, says six children died

        Muslim Shirzad, an International relations & Security expert and former senior presenter for political news, has interviewed the family of the deceased, who say nine individuals – including six children – were actually killed, and that they aren’t ISIS.

        “I just spoke with family members, 9 people killed (Zamaray 40, Naseer 30, Zameer 20, Faisal 10, Farzad 9, Armin 4, Benyamin 3, Ayat 2 and Sumaya 2 years old),” he tweeted

        1. First of all by the progtard rational the 20 and 30 year old are children, and the 10 and under are just late term abortions

    5. BBC has a video interviewing the families of the dead victims. It is far from clear that the drone succeeding in targeting a vehicle full of explosives.

  6. Was It a U.S. Drone or an ISIS Attack That Killed 3 Adults and 7 Children Outside Kabul?

    If we’d gotten out in May, the point would be moot.

    1. Botch boy Biden wanted to have a Sept 11 celebratory event/photo op snd so he changed that deadline to accommodate his own ego.

      Innocent children are dead. But no mean tweets.

      1. If Trump were president and this happened, they wouldn’t be blaming the US, they’d blame Trump.

        1. And if Trump were this stupid, he’d deserve every bit of it.

        2. I noticed it wasn’t called a Biden administration drone strike.

  7. Was It a U.S. Drone or an ISIS Attack That Killed 3 Adults and 7 Children Outside Kabul?

    The administration will let you know who is responsible, dependent on the latest polling results.

  8. Given the lack of veracity from the Biden administration, I wouldn’t accept s denial from them as credible. But that does not mean they killed these children. More to follow…

  9. >>a family … said a drone missile struck the car

    who?

    1. I am sure that everyone in Afghanistan can tell a US drone missile from a Taliban missile by this time. Surely there is no reason why anyone would lie just to make the USA look bad.

      1. To be fair, a Taliban missile is a US missile since Biden gave them all that materiel.

        1. Not to mention how much in US supplied arms did they steal from the Afghan army under Bush, Obama, and Trump?

      2. >>Surely there is no reason why anyone would lie just to make the USA look bad

        You’ve got to be kidding with that statement…

  10. the Pentagon is now investigating these reports of civilians killed, neither confirming nor denying that a U.S. strike might be responsible.”

    Isn’t failing to deny always standard bureaucratic speak for “We definitely did it”?
    If they weren’t actually sure, they would absolutely deny it, and if it proves true then issue a retraction, as “more facts become known” (and the news cycle moves on).

  11. Was It a U.S. Drone or an ISIS Attack That Killed 3 Adults and 7 Children Outside Kabul?

    That depends on which narrative damages Biden more.

    1. Doesn’t matter, they’re both Biden’s fault.

  12. Washington Post is reporting that the Taliban offered to let the US take control of Kabul, but the Biden administration turned them down.

    1. In defense of Biden, he can’t control his bowels so Kabul is out of the scope of his functions.

      1. Taliban has learned to be mangimous in victory.

        They want us gone and they do not want any excuses that could be used to delay that.

        1. The real character of the Taliban will now assert itself without US warplanes circling overhead and US ground forces on the ground. 250 American and 10,000s of SIV behind, we will see how they treat them. I don’t hold out hope as reports are that as the last US troops were leaving the Taliban executed a folk singer.

          1. 250 Americans…

            We went from 10,000+ Americans to 250 by only evacuating 5,000.
            That only works with woke math, unless thousands were evacuated unofficially… or killed.

            1. Yes the numbers don’t make sense but they are admitting to 250. I thought they would try to claim 0.

              1. The Pentagon admits that they were in contact with some 12 hours prior to final exit but did not bring them to the airport.

                1. But they got out 1000+ Afghanis in the last 24 hrs.

            2. Claiming “250” = “we have no idea, but we hope it’s not many”

              1. Not surprisingly what was reported as 250 Blinken just decreased it to under “200 but probably closer to 100” is anyone surprised that the number keeps decreasing? Also is anyone surprised Blinken is still blaming the citizens for getting caught in Kabul?

                1. “We still have no idea, but we’re searching frantically for a number that polls well!”

                  1. Sources are reporting to various news sources that the number is likely greater than 1000 US citizens.

    2. “Washington Post is reporting that the Taliban offered to let the US take control of Kabul, but the Biden administration turned them down.”

      Droolin’ Joe’s handlers turn down Trump’s (functioning) plan for withdrawal, and now we find they turned down control of Kabul? And we get this from one of the droolin’ Joe propaganda sheets?
      Oh.
      Em.
      Gee!

  13. “Was It a U.S. Drone or an ISIS Attack That Killed 3 Adults and 7 Children Outside Kabul?”

    And if the feds tell you it was ISIS, so you believe them?

  14. If you regularly have people driving cars full of high explosives around your neighborhood, and other people shooting at them with rockets, you have to expect this sort of thing every once in a while.

    1. Given the size of the explosion, I’d say at least three of their kids were unvaccinated. Possibly the men were unmasked but with the debris so scattered, it’s hard to tell.

      1. It is their own fault for being under the age of 12 and therefore they can’t get the vaccine.

  15. Drone strikes are equally, if not greater, just as cowardly as a suicide bomber. At least the suicide bomber is killing himself in the process and not just sitting in some hangar somewhere throwing back iced lattes. The USA should be ashamed to use drones without 100% confirmation of a target and no collateral damage to innocent civilians. You can’t claim you’re the good guys while killing innocent people because you lack the balls to put boots on the ground to neutralize the threat. It’s cowardly and lazy.

    1. Nothing can be guaranteed not to inflect collateral casualties, especially boots on the ground.

      1. Boots at least mean you’ll *think* before sending them off – drone strikes are too easy.

        But I agree with the sentiment – this ain’t a game in an arena.

        1. Looking at the WaPo article I don’t think this administration thinks at all about the fate of boots on the ground.

  16. This is what over the horizon capabilities that Biden keeps bragging about look like, civilian casualties, missed targets and wrong targets. I am not sure what Reason’s position is here? Do we not defend ourselves, do we not react to attacks? Because the choices are small, ignore attacks, respond to attacks which require airstrikes and or troops (even if you just want to capture and put them through the judicial system), diplomatic pressure to have terrorist handed over (this only works with nations that are willing partners and we have diplomatic relations with) or full on war. Not sure which one Reason supports.

    1. If we don’t care about targeting civilians – how can we expect to be outraged when the terrorists don’t either?

      1. We do care about targeting civilians. But the mission becomes extremely difficult if we rely on over the horizon capabilities only.

        1. Letting the Taliban pick our targets probably isn’t helping either

  17. By this time, droolin’ Joe’s colossal fuck up has pretty much left us with next to no maneuver room.
    This is but one more of the cascading results of ‘no more mean tweets’; we got Joe and all the disasters which come from such incompetence.
    A large number of US voters should be wearing ash-cloth about now. Congratulations! You shits OWN this!

    1. Every. Single. Day. I can’t tell what’s more pathetic: You being at work trying to think of clever zingers on your phone all afternoon, or you not having to work and still spending all of your time commenting on a politics site.

      1. Every single day, I am more than happy to make steaming piles of lefty shit like you really uncomfortable.
        I’m sure you’re entirely too stupid to know what embarrassment is, asshole, buy you OWN this mess.
        Fuck off and die.

  18. The documentary “the war you don’t see” clearly illustrates the role of the media to employ government propaganda (lies) to “sell” war to the public.

    Afghanistan is no different.

    http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-war-you-dont-see

    1. LOL the “truth teller” who doesn’t believe in the Holocaust.

      1. Exactly. I don’t believe in Santa Claus or the bogeyman either.

        I have refuted your bullshit belief and your response is, crickets.

        1. “I have refuted your bullshit belief and your response is, crickets.”

          You have done nothing of the sort.
          Your sole claim to ‘evidence’ relies on the Brit intel not finding the Nazis bragging about murdering innocents.
          Hint, you pathetic piece of shit, Stalin didn’t either. Even evil assholes try not to look that way in public.
          Stuff your denial up your ass so your head has some company.
          Oh, and please fuck off and die; make your family proud!

          1. Refute this. All I expect from you is crickets. Please entertain us with more feeble mental gymnastics.

            There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. That probably has something to do with the fact that any activity that demonstrates evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

            The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.

            Fuckwitness Jews wrote books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens. This brings tears and shekels to every Jew.

            But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it over a game of checkers.

            And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.

            Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.

            The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.

            The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.

            The story is told by one Jewish
            survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.

            They were stripped naked to leave no evidence.

            She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad.

            The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.

            Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.

            Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence oops. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.

            There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.

            There are aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.

            Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school

            Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines?

            It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.

            Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support a holocaust narrative which there was also no mention of.

            Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their enigma machines?

            The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.

            The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps.

            It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.

            http://www.renegadetribune.com/international-red-cross-report-confirms-holocaust-six-million-jews-hoax/

            Are you performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?

            Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save prisoners lives by preventing typhus. The system used heating to release yes cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle. Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings still exist in Aushwitz. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred.

            According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.

            Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel.

            Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours.

            If zee Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes.

            But in the revised bullshit holocaust narrative for treblinka zee Germans chose diesel even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks.

            And Nuremberg charged that they were “steam chambers”.

            Which stupid lie is more believable to a fuckwit? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.

            1. Oh, boy!
              “There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site.”
              Bullshit – refuted
              ———————————————————
              “The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.”
              Or shooting or otherwise gassing – happened. Refuted.
              ———————————————————-
              “Link to anti-semite site claiming the Red Cross is wrong”
              Too stupid to address – refuted.
              To
              ‘Anecdote about an actress’
              Refuted – irrelevant
              ———————————————————-
              “Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines?
              […]
              Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support a holocaust narrative which there was also no mention of.”
              “The Nazis didn’t brag about killing million” Misek bullshit – refuted as too stupid to address
              —————————————————–
              ‘Claim Zyclon not used to murder innocents’
              Bullshit ignored -refuted.
              —————————————————–
              ‘Cherry picking Nuremburg trials testimony’
              Refuted as too stupid to address

              1. Claim Zyclon not used to murder innocents’
                Bullshit ignored -refuted.
                Is that the old cherry that zyklon B was just an insecticidal de, which ignores the fact that nerve agents such as Sarin were originally created to be insecticides, also?

                1. https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/sarin/basics/facts.asp
                  If anyone wasn’t aware that most insecticides are nerve agents and some of the deadliest nerve agents were originally designed to be insecticides.

                2. https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/03/health/texas-pesticide-deaths/index.html
                  Even to this day, despite the numerous warning labels, people die from insecticides. Aluminum phosphate is a common insecticide used to combat storage insects that destroy crops. It is a closely controlled and regulated substance that users have to undergo special training to use and yet people still die from it’s misuse or abuse.

                  1. Cyanide does kill people fuckwit.

                    Like it would have killed the lying fuckwitness Jews who claimed to daily and shirtlessly drag bodies from the gas chambers to the ovens.

                    Instead they defied physics and lived to collect reparations and write bullshit into their old age.

                    1. We’re you raised in a neo Nazi family, or did you become one after you grew up?

                    2. We’re you always a fuckwit or can you remember how you were brainwashed without a shred of physical evidence to believe your cherished lie?

                  2. Another thing that makes suffocation agents such as phosgene and chlorine and blood agents such as cyanide great chemical weapons and why phosgene is a good storage insecticide, is that they have short half lives and disperse quickly in open air.
                    That was why phosgene was and cyanide were used in the first world war and in the Iraq-Iran war, the killed quickly but dispersed quickly enough that they didn’t pose a threat to attacking troops.

                    1. I trained others in recognizing and treatment for chemical weapons while I was in the service. I also taught WMD classes as a civilian nurse as a result of my military training. And I’ve taught countless pesticide classes as an agricultural extension agent. This isn’t something I just read about, be something I was trained for and taught for over twenty years.

                    2. Now some weaponized nerve agents are what are labeled persistent agents. These agents tend to be used to deny an enemy from being able to occupy an area after it’s use because the agent persists in the environments and can cause injury or even death for hours or days after being employed.

                    3. https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Hydrogen-cyanide
                      The half life of hydrogen cyanide (cyanide gas) is as low as 20 minutes.

                3. OTC insecticides are one of the top ten calls to poison control. Almost all OTC insecticides are nerve agents. The common signs and symptoms for exposure to insecticides are the exact same one soldiers are taught for exposure to weaponized nerve agents.

                  1. Were you trained to handle them without any ppe, shirtless and bare handed like the lying fuckwitness Jews associated with the holohoax claim they did?

                    I didn’t think so.

                    1. To all observers. This fuckwit is demonstrating how bigots think they can argue with considering the counter arguments.

                  2. I mentioned cyanide because one of the favorite “proofs” these idiots trot out is that if the Nazi used cyanide why didn’t they make sure the concentration camp workers, who were not all Jews it should be noted, that unloaded the killing chamber weren’t given protection equipment to keep them from getting poisoned. (Some of them were poisoned and sickened or died from the exposure, those who were sickened were summarily executed themselves, generally by being shot.) But this is the least logical argument they make, why would the Nazis provide protective equipment for people they were trying to kill? Did the Nazis care at all for the health of people they were using as slave labor and slowly starving and working to death?
                    The complete lack of logic of Holocaust deniers is even more so than anti-vaxxers, and at least, if not more illogical than flat earthers. There also tends to be huge overlaps with these different conspiracy theories, including 9/11 truthers, Kennedy assassination conspiracy theorist, Holocaust deniers, moon shot conspiracy theorist, etc.
                    They always think they have some unique truth that makes them special and they tend to suffer from extreme confirmation bias. They have the truth and they refuse to see any information that counters their narrative. They are incapable of absorbing facts that are contrary to their special “truth”. They also tend to be extremely narcissistic, believing that they are smarter than anyone who disagrees with them. They become extremely agitated when they are challenged. They are also prone to group think, seeking information from others like them, that is why they almost always cite the same “information”. You rarely have to read their citations if you have ever read any of the information from any of the believers of these conspiracy theories, because they all tend to be the same sources from the same websites. You rarely ever see anything new or unique, because it is always the same recycled, often disbunked multiple times information, recycled and represented. Often their citations are poorly worded or poorly edited cut and paste newsletters. They rarely are able to cite any academic papers, any first hand accounts, any governmental papers, and first source data, any physical evidence, because they lack that. And no matter how much you refer to above, no matter how much evidence you offer to dispute them, they will not reject their beliefs because that would be to large a bruise to their ego. If they believe the same thing as the majority, they are no longer special. They can’t accept that truth. So they have to imply everyone else is stupid, I’ll educated, dimwits. Because they lack the ability or intellectual honesty to admit they may be wrong, that they are not special, that they have no secret insight. That is a why debating with them tends to be a self defeating waste of time. They simply are incapable of accepting any truth except what fits their narrative. To some degree research suggests that we all may be susceptible to conspiracy theories to some degree, however, most people are able to recognize contrary information. Conspiracy theorist tend not to be able to be able to process new information. That is why they all tend to congregate to the same websites and newsletter. It provides a dopamine rush, self affirmation.

                    1. Conspiracy theorists also tend to assign evil reasonings to their opponents. They also tend to show self delusion and contradictory thoughts. For example, since we are talking Holocaust deniers, they tend to label others bigots while trotting out anti-semetic tropes.
                      In the case of KAR, he tends to accuse others of being Nazis while literally calling for genocide. The cognitive dissonance is easy for outsiders to see, but the theorist cannot see their own cognitive dissonance.

                    2. OK, getting late, but if you’d be kind enough to C/P this as a “new comment” down below, I’d like to read it come morning.
                      Misek’s idiocy/delusion is worth examination; it’s an uncommon pathology, and worth a look.

                    3. I expanded on these thoughts in my responses to you at 12:07. If you read those, you will get the jist of what I wrote here. And more.

                    4. Hahaha

                      You’re a joke.

                      Yes the truth is one of my favourite things.

                      Your long winded bullshit didn’t explain how lying fuckwitness Jews without any Poe and shirtless dragged cyanide covered bodies out of gas chambers and lived into their old age collecting reparations to write illustrated books about it.

                      If you want to refute something, start there.

              2. You seem to think that because you’re too stupid to refute anything, that means you already refuted it.

                If you want to REALLY refute something you’ll need to do more than that, like provide a cite. Like I have.

                1. Your ‘evidence’ isn’t. The Holocaust is well documented. I personally knew men who helped liberate the camps.

                  You’re just a hate filled, delusional neo Nazi, eagerly awaiting the next Jewish Holocaust.

                  1. There is zero physical evidence of a holocaust.

                    The only wou can refute this is by providing a cite to reference any.

                    Allies bombed the areas around camps for months before walking in unchallenged to “liberate” them.

                    With the infrastructure destroyed and no way to feed and no factories for prisoners to work in, Germans left the prisoners to fend for themselves.

                    Plenty starved and died waiting for the “liberators” who had better things to do.

                    1. Ok.
                      You’re an asshole and you yap crap.

                  2. No, he’s just another brainless idiot yapping crap.
                    Don’t waste your time on him.
                    It’ll just encourage the fool to spout more drivel – even if you prove him wrong.

                    1. What’s the matter?

                      Can’t you cite even one shred of physical evidence that proves your bullshit bogeyman story?

                      At least I refute what I deny with evidence of logic and science. You don’t, bigot.

          2. Refute this

            Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations hundreds of times since before WW1. Only for sympathy to raise money and coerce those nations.

            http://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/repeated-claims-of-6-million-jews-dying-decades-before-hitler-vs-ignored-soviet-death-camp-tolls/

            1. REALLY convincing, Nazi asshole!
              An entire page covered with unreadable newspaper articles which the publisher (who?) makes the claim stated in your bullshit post, and then tries to justify what you claim didn’t happen by pointing out the Bolshies were pretty fucked up too!
              You’re batting a THOUSAND!

              1. I can read them. Do you want me to cite a link with bigger print?

                You must have shit in your eyes.

                1. You’re welcome to, but earlier false claims are irrelevant, even if ONE or TWO might be true; cherry picking is a favorite occupations of lying piece of shit.

                2. Oh, and you seem to have shit between your ears.

            2. Ok.
              You’re an asshole and you yap crap.

          3. Refute this

            The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russt because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany driving Germany to war.

            There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the gassing Jew holocaust propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.

            http://christiansfortruth.com/1944-information-ministry-letter-proves-fake-holocaust-propaganda-promoted-to-cover-up-real-bolshevik-war-crimes

            The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.

            These Jewish leaders are admitting it.. Are they lying?

            “We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
            David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.

            “The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”

            Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.

            The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.

            1. Oh, gee! How could you possibly “refute” such a pile of bullshit?
              I suggest everyone who has any fantasies regarding our resident Nazi shit check the link. It is from a “Christian” org and from the stench, there’s more than a bit of anti-semitism involved.
              Regardless, they are honest enough to print the letter they claim as support for their bullshit, and follow it up with this editorializing:

              “Essentially, this letter demands that the BBC and British churches enter into a conspiracy to falsely accuse the Germans of heinous wartime atrocities and ‘crimes against humanity’ in order to protect the public reputation of their Allies, the blood-thirsty ‘Russian’ Bolsheviks (many of whom were indeed ethnic Jews) as they raped, plundered, and murdered their way west across Europe during the German retreat.”

              The letter does nothing of the sort; it simply point out that the Bolshies are pretty miserable, and the ‘brains’ at that organization seem to reflect or resident Nazi shit’s level of intelligence .
              In short, it not only isn’t “proof”, it doesn’t begin to rise above the level of an opinion piece from scumbags like Misek.
              ——————————————
              And then we are treated to pugnacious quotes from an embattled culture ass if that justifies what Misek claims didn’t happen.
              ——————————————-
              Hey, (really stupid) Nozi shit, consider your “evidence” dismissed as the bullshit it is.

              1. “Bolshies” haha you mean Jews.

                Communist Jews committing atrocities through Russia, an Ally.

                1. ““Bolshies” haha you mean Jews….”

                  Whoa! We got a live one here.
                  The leaders of the USSR didn’t gas millions of Jews, but they certainly didn’t have any sympathy for them. The Jews were driven from the Pale, and:
                  “Stalin’s Last Crime: The Plot Against the Jewish Doctors
                  Mr. Brent discussed the book he co-authored with Vladimir Naumov titled Stalin’s Last Crime: The Plot Against the Jewish Doctors, 1948-1953, published by HarperCollins Publishers”
                  https://www.c-span.org/video/?176038-1/stalins-crime-plot-jewish-doctors

                  Misek is looking more and more like that kid you really didn’t want to be around in HS: “Did you hear about Nixon and Hitler in Paraguay in ’56? It all makes sense!!!”

                  1. Does he also believes in “the great cause” argument for the South’s secession and believes that it had nothing to do with slavery?

                    1. It should be noted I am not reading any of Misek’s posts, I am simply offering the greatest hits of white supremacist s/Neo-Nazi talking points for decades. I see he hit another one, from Sevo’s last post, I hadn’t posted yet, the ever wonderful “it is the Jewish religion to lie”.

                    2. If fuckwit opened its eyes it would see how irrelevant it is.

                    3. “It should be noted I am not reading any of Misek’s posts,..”

                      Not quoting the entirety of the claimed “irrefutable evidence” but hoping enough to make clear that our Nazi asshole has no idea of what the term “evidence” means.
                      Lost track after covering several piles of bullshit, but there is a summary I think a bit down-thread.
                      I’ll copy and paste as a top-of-thread comment below.

                  2. Lenin, the leader of the Bolshevik communist revolution in 1917 was a Jew as were many Bolsheviks who formed the communist government and secret police, the KGB.

                    1. And?
                      Did you think there was a point there?
                      Oh, BTW, your first pile of bullshit got more than what it deserved;
                      You.
                      Are
                      Full.
                      Of.
                      Shit.

                    2. Stalin was also a Jew.

                      There’s no lower limit on what lies Jews will tell.

                      http://www.deathofcommunism.com/stalin-the-jew/

                    3. “Stalin was also a Jew.”

                      This is the highest level of our Nazi shit’s “evidence”
                      Please do look up-thread; you will be treated to what our resident Nazi asshole claims to be “irrefutable evidence” that the Holocaust did not happen. No, your won’t; you’ll get a tour de force of every possible use of dishonesty and stupidity to support a bullshit claim debunked many more times than anyone wishes to count.
                      Let’s review:
                      You will find claims that what was verified by many sources (including Nazi records), “never happened”, questionable claims of issues not related to the Holocaust which are wrong, anecdotes un-related to the Holocaust, “facts” which often are, but which are irrelevant or anecdotal, speculation based on very “careful” readings of WWII documents, just plain bullshit claims (“no forensic evidence!!!!”), innuendo, quotes which are either irrelevant or used to “justify” that which asshole claims did not happen.
                      Not sure if there’s some mendacity our Nazi shit tried which isn’t covered here, since I’m not willing to deal with such bullshit again.
                      In short, asshole Misek claims to present “irrefutable evidence”, but seems lacking in mental acuity to even understand what the term “evidence” means.
                      Please read his piles of shit at your leisure to make your own judgement. Or not. We are dealing with an individual with a mental level approximating turd; Tony, sarc, jeff, mike; the lot of them.
                      Dishonest, yes. But, as Ken sussed out sometime back, that is but a symptom of a stupidity so abysmal such as to not even recognize the disconnect between the claimed lie and the evident truth.
                      The question remains whether this is willful, but I doubt it. Such would have to recognize that the bullshit is not being bought by the readers; this level of stupidity seems to rule that out.

                    4. Still you have refuted nothing while I continue to shit all over your cherished lie and rub your nose in it.

                      And loving it.

                  3. Lying is religion for Jews.

                    Their holiest prayer on their holiest day is clearly a plan to lie. The faithful can lie for another year with the comfort and blessing of their religion. If Satan is the father of lies, members of the Jewish religion are his faithful children.

                    Here is the Kol Nidre. All faithful Jews will be chanting it on September 15 as they welcome the darkness of a new day at sunset.

                    “All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”

                    1. “Lying is religion for Jews…”

                      If that’s true, you gotta be circumcised!

                    2. Sick.

                    3. It is what Jews do.

              2. Yes please do read the link. That’s why I cited it.

                Hopefully your comprehension will be less obfuscated by the feeble mental gymnastics demonstrated by sevo the retarded.

                1. “Yes please do read the link. That’s why I cited it.”

                  Glutton for punishment right there: please do read the link. turd, sarc, jeff, Tony or Mike might find it persuasive; that’s to be expected.

                  1. If rubbing your nose in it is “punishment” the yes, I want more.

                    Haha

  19. WaPo Wallops White House For Greenlighting Taliban Kabul Takeover
    https://apple.news/A1QrlTdsCS0egmEbpkD4g-w
    This is going to sting ????

    1. Has Wapo started any Kamala 2022 editorials?

    2. Setting the table for 25A.

  20. Last US flights have left Afghanistan, Taliban has control of the airport. Hundreds of American citizens, 10,000s of SIV holders left behind.

    1. Never should have been there in the first place.

      1. Yeah, we know. That milk’s been spilled already.

        1. Is Rob Misek also a 9/11 truther as well as a Holocaust denier?

          1. Why not? Once you’ve gone “odious” who’s going to really notice if you add “obnoxious” to it?

            1. How long until Mikey is defending Rob Misek?

            2. His Holocaust denial and other stupidity is why he was one of the first people I muted months ago. I am sure he isn’t posting anything intelligent.

              1. The scaredy bigot closed its eyes.

              2. I just said he has been muted for months and yet he responds to me again. Dude, adjust your tinfoil hat and get it through your skull that I don’t read anything you post, I don’t even see it except that someone I muted has responded to me. Keep making a fool of yourself.

              3. I still haven’t muted a sole, and probably won’t. His nazi propaganda and lies should not be allowed to go unchallenged.

                1. I tend to mute idiots like him and KAR because nothing they say is at all approaching intelligent and I would rather just not even read it. But I applaud you for having the patience to deal with these sub average IQ idiots.

                2. You have never refuted my arguments that prove the “holocaust “ is a lie.

                  Nobody has.

                  Your easily refuted feeble mental gymnastics provided no challenge at all.

                  1. “You have never refuted my arguments that prove the “holocaust “ is a lie.”

                    Kinda hard to refute what ain’t there Nazi shit.

                    1. You’ve made quite an effort and fool out of yourself trying to refute something that “isn’t there”.

          2. I prefer to shit all over one of your cherished false narratives at a time and rub your nose in it.

            Every time you can’t refute my arguments. Hahaha

            1. “I prefer to shit all over one of your cherished false narratives at a time and rub your nose in it.”

              Translated from Nazi:
              “I’m a seriously deluded piece of shit, and I’m defensive about it!”

              1. Let me guess he believes it was all a conspiracy controlled by the Global Zionist Cabal?

                1. “Let me guess” this fuckwit doesn’t realize it’s stupidity.

                  1. Go ahead and guess; it’ll likely be as amusing as your bullshit claims, Nazi asshole.

                2. Our low-watt-bulb Nazi shit Misek isn’t anywhere bright enough to make those sorts of connections.
                  His constant responses refer to his “arguments” not being refuted, and the only one he’s made here refers to Brit Intel (Bletchly Park) *never finding the Nazis bragging about killing millions of Jews!*
                  Therefore, they must not have!
                  Seriously!
                  But, like turd, Tony, Mike, et all, he returns with the same bullshit time after time, and I point out how idiotic it is time after time.
                  Ought to type it up in a word doc so it’s easier than typing it.

                  1. So he ignores the 10,000s of first hand accounts of soldiers’ of the 101st and 3rd Army, not to mention the British and French soldiers who liberated camps, that liberated concentration camps, the multiple films, the Germans who testified it occurred, the thousands of survivors, the 100s of reporters that visited the camps etc? And he insults people who don’t ignore the plethora of evidence from 1000s of different sources? Like I said, his IQ is sub average.

                    1. I will take Lt. Col Dick Winters’, whose battalion liberated one of the concentration camps, over some dip shit on the internet.

                    2. Or Lt Gen Patton’s diary account of the camps they liberated.

                    3. The arguments I’ve presented are here for all to see and recognize that nobody has refuted any of them.

                      And from you, crickets.

                    4. So we are supposed to ignore all the evidence I just presented and try and refute your evidence? That isn’t how it works. Refute ALL the evidence that hundreds of thousands eye witnesses have presented.

                    5. See above where as “irrefutable” evidence, we get an editorial claiming a letter means nothing of what it says, and some “selected” quotes. “Sub-average” is too kind indeed.
                      And you don’t have to rely on any one of the eye-witnesses, or the lot of them; the evidence is beyond doubt, including records from the Wanna See Nazi conference where the “final solution” was developed. Not to mention the physical evidence at the sites.
                      This sort of imbecility is a reminder that there remain those who think the moon landings were filmed on the back lot at MGM. There are times when you begin to think shit like this is not simply a result of passive lack of intelligence, but an active effort toward idiocy.

                    6. Oh, I agree that the evidence is overwhelming. The Nazis actually kept records of how many Jews and others they sent to each camp and what happened to them. These records, plus testimonies of camp guards and personal were presented at the Nuremberg trials. There was and is tons of physical evidence, including bodies, that was collected. Albert Speers, testified about the final solution, and was convicted for his part in it. He was the last person to see Hitler alive and was in charge of German munitions manufacturing, using slave labor from the concentration camps. This is probably the most well documented occurrence in world history and yet idiots like Misek thinks he is special because he knows the “truth”.

                    7. “…yet idiots like Misek thinks he is special because he knows the “truth”.”

                      Hadn’t thought of it that way, and it may have wider application: Misek is compensating by latching onto a wildly unpopular claim, which, in his eyes, makes him ‘special’ rather than the run-of-the-mill low-watt bulb he is.

                    8. I cant take credit for it, it is a widely circulated theory as to why people believe in grand conspiracy theories. I first saw it on Penn and Teller’s Bullshit episode on Conspiracy theories.

                    9. To the Nazi shit Misek:
                      “The arguments I’ve presented are here for all to see and recognize that nobody has refuted any of them.”

                      Your “aguments” are so much bullshit, which is obvious to anyone reading what I wrote above.
                      I have to assume these are the best you’ve got; you’re entirely to stupid to reserve any ammo in case the opposition is stronger than you thought.
                      However, on looking back upthread, I see another steaming pile of shit, so allow me to call you on that also, Nazi shit.

                    10. “The arguments I’ve presented are here for all to see and recognize that nobody has refuted any of them.
                      And from you, crickets.”

                      There are at least a thousand words above showing clearly that our resident Nazi asshole full of shit, so we can guess that our resident Nazi shit is not capable of reading, given the claim is “crickets”.
                      Note that each refutation is stated clearly and with good reason; still, our resident Nazi asshole claims “crickets”.
                      Shall we assume our resident Nazi asshole is certainly a Nazi, is further dishonest and (again), as Ken pointed out, so fucking stupid as to not recognize the level of stupidity to make such claims?
                      Why, yes, I think we can

                    11. Paid and coerced testimony is not only inadmissible, it isn’t physical evidence.

                      Any of that is worthless and refutes nothing.

                      You claim that you have presented evidence here, but you haven’t provided any cite or irrefutable evidence of logic and science.

                      I have, and while you’ve performed feeble mental gymnastics in an attempt to refute it, I have refuted you.

                      Pick any single statement I’ve made that you claim to have refuted and I’ll refute your argument for all to see.

                      All I expect from you is crickets.

                    12. Echospinner’s sock (misek) did a great job derailing the thread though

                    13. You fucking liar.

                      The troll bigots who attacked my comments were the first to mention the bullshit holocaust story on this thread,

                      Don’t look at fuckwit
                      And
                      Soldierfuckwit38

                      Every time one of you fuckwits does, I’ll rub your nose in it. Along with any other time of my choice.

      2. “They deserve it”

    2. Ineffective mask mandates and a New Greenback Deal was Biden’s focus. Operation Napghanistan? He had a vacation planned at Camp David and could not be bothered.

  21. It is cute everyone saying the war in Afghanistan is over. It isn’t over it just has entered a new stage.

  22. And just another point we evacuated 1000 Afghani refugees with the last flights but no American citizens (except US troops) were on the flights. That as 250 American citizens trapped in Afghanistan still.
    And don’t depend on diplomacy as there appears to be a growing civil war between ISIS and Taliban, and the Taliban doesn’t control Kabul totally, also the Taliban leadership doesn’t even seem to be able to control their own fighters.

    1. But at least they have Blackhawks to hang people from now

    2. Maybe we could salvage something from this whole mess.
      I’m thinking some kind of pay per view live stream or something.

  23. President Biden was so moved by the death of 13 servicemen that he was caught looking at his watch during the ceremony (photo op) to receive 11 of the 13 bodies.
    Families of those fallen blast Biden for being distant and scripted during the meetings he took with them after the remains were received.

    1. One pregnant widow described his words as hollow, disengages and distant.

    2. Biden refers to African American FEMA administer as “boy”.

    3. IAEA confirms North Korea has restarted the nuclear facilities that produce plutonium for the atomic weapons program.

    4. Worst President since at least as far back as Carter.

    5. … he was caught looking at his watch .
      Dude! It’s nap time!

  24. There are still about 250 American citizens left in Afghanistan.

    “We did not get everybody out that we wanted to get out,” [Marine Corps General Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr] said.”

    They got out the “vast majority” of Americans that said they wanted to leave. Not all of them.

    I don’t know how these motherfuckers are ever going to sleep again. If I were Marine Corps General Kenneth McKenzie Jr, and I just stood up in front of the nation and told them, “We didn’t get everyone out,” I’d go home tonight and eat a bullet. What an utter disgrace.

    And those soldiers, leaving on those planes, knowing there are still Americans on the ground there. What Biden has asked them to live with is unconscionable.

    1. We got out 1000+ Afghanis in last 24 hrs but no American citizens except troops and diplomats. NYT is reporting 50 American citizens were turned away in last 24 hrs.

    2. I guess they are hoping the Rutti Tutti Tolly Bahn will be nice.

      But they will probably just have public executions to let us know.

      Oh wait, they already are – from in the air.

      Biden should be impeached, along with his secretary of state and defense. All general staff should be fired.

    3. “…I don’t know how these motherfuckers are ever going to sleep again. If I were Marine Corps General Kenneth McKenzie Jr, and I just stood up in front of the nation and told them, “We didn’t get everyone out,” I’d go home tonight and eat a bullet. What an utter disgrace…”

      Not sure droolin’ Joe’s colossal fuck up left him with a lot of choices.

      1. If the WaPo article is correct the August 31 deadline was part of the agreement that gave the Taliban control of Kabul.

        1. So really good planning on Joe’s part, right?

  25. One of the things we need to consider is that Afghanistan is a landlocked country. Our only route is through Pakastani airspace. The Pakastani IS is already on the ground aiding the Taliban, the also reportedly aided the Taliban in low level harassment to impede the US evacuation, including jamming and spoofing of US communications. We have no over the horizon capabilities in Afghanistan without the support of Pakistan (or Iran which is even less likely). One of the biggest fuckups from September 12th, 2001 till today has been our dealings with Pakistan, who are very dependent on US foreign aid. They’ve housed the Taliban, has worked with them, housed Bin Laden, etc, yet we still give them aid and treat them as an ally.

  26. It plays well domestically, and it is unpopular only in other countries.

    Maybe we could put it in terms the average American can understand. “Each Army* Hellfire is worth 177 $1,200 stimulus checks!”

    *Weirdly, Navy Hellfires cost only a fraction as much, just about $45k each — only 38 $1,200 stimulus checks!

    1. The Naval ones are purchased for USMC AH-1W and Z cobras, and have less capabilities than the ones purchased for the Army’s AH-64D.

      1. There’s some veracity to the old joke that the Marine Corps only gets “new” equipment after it’s obsolete for the US Army.

  27. Anyone else besides me think something is amiss with the prioritization of the evacuation? The Whitehouse is celebrating 123+k evacuated while also admitting US citizens didn’t get out (and numerous organizations are now reporting that many of these did attempt to get out but couldn’t get into the airport for a variety of reasons) and US LPR and visa holders got left behind, and 3rd party (allies in non-beaurcratic speak) citizens also didn’t get out?

    1. One aide group just released that they’ve picked up dozens of American Passport and Visa holders who had made multiple attempts to get to the airport the last two weeks, only to be turned back, and are now attempting to evacuate them via land routes.

      1. If there were web access, it’s odd-on we’d be reading about groups all over the place now abandoned.
        This leakage is gonna continue for quite a while, and some are undoubtedly going to have to be ransomed out.
        Thanks droolin’ Joe! Job fucked up!

    2. SleepyJoe is a total colossal failure.

  28. One of the truism of war is that the poor and innocent suffer the most. You can’t make war better or safer for the innocent. You have to eliminate war, something of which our species does not have a good record. The fact is that drones are no better, no worse than smart bombs. There will always be some children, some women, some old people too near. You want to stop collateral damage, you have to stop war.

    1. Which is impossible to unilaterally do.

      1. I agree, but I would also say that better decisions made unilaterally would lessen wars. The US entered Afghanistan to rout the terrorist camps, have we made the unilateral decision to stop at that goal things might have been better for the people of Afghanistan all around.

        1. I would say that’s impossible. They are used to living in the stone age with Sharia law and until a significant number of them stand up and shake off the shackles of religion and superstition it will stay that way. It will take a grassroots effort with broad appeal.

    2. “…There will always be some children, some women, some old people too near. You want to stop collateral damage, you have to stop war.”

      FDR claimed the Boy Scout collecting scrap metal was every bit as valuable as the Marine on the front line on Guadalcanal, thereby justifying total war in WWII. But the (major) belligerent nations were “nations”; the economy was fungible with the front-line troops.
      Not so here; those kids from XXX tribe who happen to show up in Kabul never so much as picked up a soda can to help the war.
      Thanks, droolin’ Joe! Job well fucked up!

  29. So much for the kinder, gentler, pragmatic Taliban that we can “negotiate” with. Reports are already filtering out of Afghanistan that within an hour of the last US troops leaving Afghan air space that the Taliban has began door to door executions.

  30. Laura Ingram is calling on the GOP to rein in the bloated defense budget as a result of the failure in Afghanistan, especially in regards to the inordinate amount of flag officers we currently have serving.

    1. This is something that isn’t spoken about enough, one of the biggest dirty secrets is that we have a higher proportion of flag officers serving now, then we did during the Cole war, when our military was considerably larger.

      1. The DoD has definitely become a place of “too many chiefs and not enough indians” and they never get fired for incompetence, they just get reassigned and often promoted.

      2. Some estimates I have seen say we have three to four times the number if generals and admirals then are justified by the number of servicemen currently serving.

      3. I have no problem with the idea of cutting the number of high level military officers. Redundant officers, like redundant equipment is a waste.

        1. Nobody cares what a 50YO going on 13 “thinks”.

  31. most Americans just don’t seem to care when drone strikes kill innocents.

    Nor does Shackford make the slightest hint of a case as to why we should.

  32. Just to make sure this stays on the left of the threaded comments, our resident Nazi claims:
    “Stalin was also a Jew.”

    (which he wasn’t)
    This is the highest level of our Nazi shit’s “evidence” in Holocaust denial.
    Please do look up-thread; you will be treated to what our resident Nazi asshole claims to be “irrefutable evidence” that the Holocaust did not happen. No, your won’t; you’ll get a tour de force of every possible use of dishonesty and stupidity to support a bullshit claim debunked many more times than anyone wishes to count.
    Let’s review:
    You will find claims that what was verified by many sources (including Nazi records), “never happened”, questionable claims of issues not related to the Holocaust which are wrong, anecdotes un-related to the Holocaust, “facts” which often are, but which are irrelevant or anecdotal, speculation based on very “careful” readings of WWII documents, just plain bullshit claims (“no forensic evidence!!!!”), innuendo, quotes which are either irrelevant or used to “justify” that which asshole claims did not happen.
    Not sure if there’s some mendacity our Nazi shit tried which isn’t covered here, since I’m not willing to deal with such bullshit again.
    In short, asshole Misek claims to present “irrefutable evidence”, but seems lacking in mental acuity to even understand what the term “evidence” means.
    Please read his piles of shit at your leisure to make your own judgement. Or not. We are dealing with an individual with a mental level approximating turd; Tony, sarc, jeff, mike; the lot of them.
    Dishonest, yes. But, as Ken sussed out sometime back, that is but a symptom of a stupidity so abysmal such as to not even recognize the disconnect between the claimed lie and the evident truth.
    The question remains whether this is willful, but I doubt it. Such would have to recognize that the bullshit is not being bought by the readers; this level of stupidity seems to rule that out.

    To all of this, our resident Nazi shit states:
    “Still you have refuted nothing while I continue to shit all over your cherished lie and rub your nose in it.
    And loving it.”
    There are levels of self-delusion which we all see ere often, and our resident Nazi asshole has just admitted to another.

    1. That is why I muted him and KAR. The level of cognitive dissonance the two show demonstrate that nothing, no evidence you provide, no matter how many sources you cite, they are incapable of digesting any information that runs counter to their delusions. This is a well documented widely held characteristic of conspiracy theorist.

      Their “proof” doesn’t need to be read if you ever read anything by someone with the similar theory, because they all recycle and regurgitate the same sources, that all comes from the same websites. They almost never offer anything new or original. It is all the same cute and paste, usually poorly edited newsletters. You will rarely ever see historical records, first hand accounts, physical evidence, governmental records, etc. You will, however, see exerts that have been cut out of context to support their narrative (we saw a similar thing happen with the media when they connected separate and unrelated sentences in Trump’s call to the Ukrainian president) but whenever you go back to the original document, you can easily see that the information the theorist provided was taken out of context and in no ways supports what the theorist is stating it does. If you point this out, they will deny it and restate their original point. You can never refute their theories because they lack the ability to process information that runs counter to their narrative. We see similar traits in tribalist and partisan groups. It is a trait well documented in group think.
      Theorists also tend to assign evil motives to anyone who rejects their premises. They will label people bigots while trotting out anti-semetic tropes, they will label others Nazis while supporting Nazi tactics, economics, or even genocide (see KAR and his Mormons are trying to take over the world conspiracy). They believe you and everyone else, not themselves, are the ones who lacks intelligence and critical thinking skills. No matter how twisted their logic, no matter how much double think is necessary to support their beliefs, it is others who they see as suffering from these symptoms. This is especially true of grand conspiracy theories such as Holocaust denial, or Hologram planes/9/11. The more evidence you provide the larger the conspiracy grows in their mind. They simply are incapable of accepting that they, not everyone else, is wrong. It is easier to deprogram a cult follower than it is to prove to a conspiracy theorist that they are wrong.

      1. They also tend to be entirely predictable because of the traits I listed above.

        1. The larger the conspiracy the more predictable they become. We all tend to be susceptible to some degree to believe in small conspiracies. It is thought to have been a survival mechanism, that allows us to process random or chaotic events. It is easier to believe that a random event is the result of a “conspiracy” than it is to accept it is completely random. You notice they grand conspiracies tend to revolve around huge, difficult to understand events. It is easier to believe that the Holocaust is a lie, than it is to believe that a group of fairly highly educated people decided to kill 12 million people and 30,000,000 or so Germans turned a willful blind eye to it. It’s easier to believe in some nefarious behind the scenes cabal destroyed the world trade center than it is to believe that 19 hijackers with box cutters killed 3,000 Americans. It is easier to believe the CIA/Mafia/LBJ worked together to kill Kennedy than it is to believe some deadbeat failed communist used a cheap war surplus rifle to kill the most powerful man in the western world.

          1. Like racism and antisemitism, conspiracy theories are lazy thinkers. That is also why you tend to see so many overlaps between the groups. The most ironic thing about Holocaust denial is that the Holocaust itself was perpetrated by conspiratorial thinking. And self contradictory beliefs such as Jews were dimwitted inferior vermin that also ran a secret cabal to weaken Germany and take over Europe.

            1. And the problem is that in some cases they really have been true conspiracies. There really was a MIC effort to lie to the government and the people about how good things were in Afghanistan, to keep the contracts coming, to keep congress funding the ear, to keep people from asking questions. The difference is that with these real conspiracies, the information wasn’t well hidden, that many people knew it suspected the truth for quite awhile before the bombshell reports are released. People suspected or had even voiced much of the information released in the Pentagon Papers. Servicemen and women who had served in Afghanistan had been saying almost all of the stuff that was released in the internal review of Afghanistan that was released two years ago. It is because real conspiracies tend to be so inefficient and cumbersome that the information can’t be contained effectively. The bombshell reports just verify what people had knew or suspected all along.
              For something like the Holocaust to be a lie would require such a grand conspiracy, involving millions of people that there is no logical way to keep the secret hidden for any length of time.
              The Pentagon Papers, the IG report on Afghanistan wasn’t new information, they didn’t offer new insights, they just confirmed what people had been saying for some time. That isn’t the case with the Holocaust or 9/11. Outside these fringe groups of theorist, no one sees any reason to doubt the plethora of evidence that exists that these events happened exactly how they happened.

      2. “The arguments I’ve presented are here for all to see and recognize that nobody has refuted any of them.
        And from you, crickets.”

        There are at least a thousand words above showing clearly that our resident Nazi asshole full of shit, so we can guess that our resident Nazi shit is not capable of reading, given the claim is “crickets”.
        Note that each refutation is stated clearly and with good reason; still, our resident Nazi asshole claims “crickets”.
        Shall we assume our resident Nazi asshole is certainly a Nazi, is further dishonest and (again), as Ken pointed out, so fucking stupid as to not recognize the level of stupidity to make such claims?
        Why, yes, I think we can

      3. “You can never refute their theories because they lack the ability to process information that runs counter to their narrative.”

        This was the insight that Ken noted a couple of months ago.
        You might argue that Misek’s bullshit it intentional, but that grants entirely too much value to Misek’s intellect.
        We are not dealing with ‘clever’ people here, just those lacking the mental ability to separate reality from their fantasies.
        Still won’t mute them; they (everyone of them) deserves the metaphorical knee to the balls that I can deliver.

        1. Misek’s argument appears to be that the Nazis didn’t really kill the Jews, but the Jews are super evil, and implies we should exterminate them for being such. It’s just bizarre.

          1. Cite where I have ever implied or otherwise advocated the extermination of stupid fucking jews.

            You stupid fuckwit.

          2. You misspelled “stupid”; Misek is stupid in very large helpings.

        2. “You can never refute their theories because they lack the ability to process information that runs counter to their narrative.”

          That’s never stopped me from refuting bigots like you.

    2. You claim that you have presented evidence here, but you haven’t provided any cite or irrefutable evidence of logic and science.

      I have, and while you’ve performed feeble mental gymnastics in an attempt to refute it, I have refuted you.

      Pick any single statement I’ve made that you claim to have refuted and I’ll refute your argument for all to see.

      All I expect from you is crickets

      1. There it is for all to see. This is how free speech is supposed to work.

        When these fuckwits are challenged to provide even a single example to demonstrate their claims that they have refuted my statements, THEY CHOKE.

  33. What do people expect? It’s a fucking war zone, not disney land. That’s why we left, we should have left as soon as Bin Laden was found and eliminated.

  34. BBC interviewed the family and based upon what they said, we just killed a bonch of civilians with that drone strike.

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