Coronavirus

Kristi Noem Is Right About Employer Vaccine Mandates

"It is not conservative to grow government and to tell businesses what to do."

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As businesses grapple with the tradeoffs of requiring employees and customers to get vaccinated, some Republican officials have decided to take this choice out of their hands. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R), for instance, has prohibited both public and private entities from requiring proof of vaccination, creating conflict with several industries—including cruise lines—that would like to mandate vaccines. Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte (R) has done the same in his state.

Two Republican state legislators in South Dakota have proposed a similar ban on private vaccine mandates. The COVID-19 Vaccine Freedom of Conscious Act, authored by Reps. Jon Hansen and Scott Odenbach, would effectively stop all businesses from requiring vaccination. But unlike DeSantis and Gianforte, South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) is opposing the ban on private vaccine passports on grounds that the government does not and should not have the right to bully businesses.

"I don't have the authority as governor to tell them what to do," said Noem. "Since the start of this pandemic, I have remained focused on what my authorities are and what they are not. Now South Dakota is in a strong position because I didn't overstep my authority. I didn't trample on the rights of our people, and I'm not going to start now."

Noem's stance will probably attract derision from some on the vaccine-skeptical populist right; indeed, Noem has a history of being painted as insufficiently conservative because she was unwilling to use state power to enforce a conservative cultural agenda when she thought it wouldn't hold up in court. But the governor is absolutely right to stick to her guns here—and in fact, it's the Republican officials racing to prohibit private vaccine mandates who are violating clear-cut conservative principles.

Noem explained this quite aptly in a brief speech outlining her position.

"When leaders overstep their authority, that is how we break this country, and if government starts acting unconstitutionally, even if it's doing something that we like, that's a dangerous path to walk down," she said. "It is not conservative to grow government and to tell businesses what to do and how to treat their employees."

Noem also noted that South Dakota was the only state to never order a church to close due to the pandemic. Her stance is consistent and consistently conservative: It is wrong for the government to tell individuals, private associations, and businesses what to do. If they want to require vaccination, it's really no concern of the state.

The rise of Trump-era conservative populism (which has more disdain for economic and social libertarianism than the GOP of yesteryears), and the pandemic (which has allowed the state to claim expansive new powers for itself) have both moved the Republican and Democratic parties in a direction of increased hostility toward freedom of association. The Democratic politicians, health officials, liberal activists, and mainstream media figures that comprise "Team Blue" want to require vaccines, masks, and other safety measures, while their enemies on "Team MAGA" generally want to prohibit these same things.

It's increasingly rare for a political figure to loudly proclaim the principled libertarian position, which holds that such restrictions should be neither mandated nor prohibited. Good on Noem for articulating it so clearly.

NEXT: The Biden Administration Seems To Think Every Public School Is Legally Obligated To Require That Students Wear Face Masks

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    4. The Governor’s argument is terrible and all too typical of the now Liberal, rather than Libertarian, Reason. When “private” businesses impose vaccines, they are acting as agents of the government, not independent persons or entities. Literally, government agents (Biden, Fauci etc) went on TV & said that they wanted these businesses to do this & that if these businesses did NOT do this, then there’d be another lockdown. When you threaten a business w/ a lockdown, it can’t “voluntarily” agree to do what you told it to do; thus, it’s acting as YOUR agent, not an independent entity.

      Folks, it’s black-letter-law: when I threaten you, you cannot consent When the government threatens you (with lockdowns etc), you cannot consent. There’s no “liberty” here.

      One might as well argue that laws preventing the enforcement of the Fugitive Slave Act somehow interfered w/ businesses’ rights.

      1. Bingo.

        Robby, at times, acts like a CDC libertarian.

      2. You are totally right, Chris. Kristi Noem needs to show some integrity. This is about freedom. It is not an employer’s business what medicine their employees take. They need their employees to be productive.

      3. A point you missed, but supporting your argument: business permits and licenses.

        Under the current regime, government inspects and limits how a business may operate. They’re at the mercy of government, so they don’t have much choice but to do the bidding of government.

      4. Except, of course, that there is no level of government above the governor of a state that can impose a lockdown.
        Senile Zhou Bai-din can threaten one, all he wants, but he has no power to do so.
        We never had a federally imposed lockdown, only ones done on a state-wide basis, something the governor of a state has complete control over.
        That’s you, Kristi.
        Now, if federal funds are threatened to be withheld, if no lockdown occurs, that’s a different story, but, to this point lockdowns have been a governor’s prerogative.
        Besides, as m4019597 says, government imposes all kinds of restrictions on what businesses can, and can’t do.
        Those other governors are just telling their businesses that they can’t bully their customers.

      5. The current version of Reason would probably support the police “asking” your landlord to unlock your apartment door so they can search for drugs.

    5. Hey, don’t tell anyone else, but Kristi Noem has a penis.

  1. “creating conflict with several industries—including cruise lines—that would like to mandate vaccines.”

    Are we sure they really want to?

    1. Norwegian definitely does, it seems like Royal Caribbean and Carnival are content to have unvaccinated passengers purchase additional travel insurance and then let them on board. I’m not sure of any other cruise lines

      1. The cruise industry is the only one I can think of where a mandate makes sense. I hate the mandates, and they are just virtue signaling in just about any other setting.

        1. Probably means vaccines don’t have to be mandated for that industry

      2. Maybe the cruise lines can sell a lifeboat package.

    2. Corporations only want mandates to protect themselves from suits that will come about either way unless they can lobby the government for mandated vaccines. It will happen the avalanch already started

      1. Replace “want mandates” with vaccines

      2. Bingo. If Congress had passed tort reform to limit coronavirus liabilities, every business would oppose vaccine and mask mandates.

  2. Your second to last paragraph isn’t quite true at all. You will always find people across the political spectrum who are hostile to the bill of rights. The point though is that the collusion of democratic party apparatchiks, big tech billionaires, major media, and the entrenched bureaucracy (including IC, FBI, military) has reached a point where freedom of movement, association, speech, and religion is being actively discouraged as best and hostile to the point of violence at the worst. That may be their overreaction to Trump’s win, but you cannot blame that on Trump supporters or anyone who doesn’t fall in line with the woke shamers and maskholes.

    You say we’re disdainful of libertarianism. I say we’re disdainful of the failure to implement any concrete ideas and win elections without GOP support. We bought into it, and it produced nothing. Instead we got Bush era neocons throwing us into trillion dollar wars, who then absconded to the democrat party because they couldn’t force Trump to invade Iran or whatever other bullshit they were cooking up. Now we’re 30 trillion in debt and still climbing.

    So where are all the libertarians in office? Nowhere.

    1. Not only that but the ones visible in media are all staunch supporters of fascism and marxist organizations and their means to power. Nothing screams individual rights and responsibility like collective rights and punishment.

    2. Actually.. half the Republican party of New Hampshire is comprised of libertarian Free Staters who moved to New Hampshire and ran as Republicans. And a supermajority of them share my view that corporations that have taken taxpayer money shouldn’t be able to mandate vaccination. The irony is the largest block of libertarian Republican lawmakers in the United States are realistic enough to realize that taxpayer funded “private” businesses aren’t private businesses anymore. They just made We the People unwitting stakeholders who now, due to the anti-competitive force of coerced subsidization, are forced to carve out legal protections because we can’t just go and start a viable competitor to Walmart on a whim due to the government creating an artificially high barrier via excessive regulation (which a company with massive economy of scale like Walmart can afford) as well as robbing we citizens of the capital to be able to compete. Then we get into the insane printing of money exacerbating hyper-inflation and acting as another force robbing us of purchasing power.. and it’s extremely obvious why it is now necessary to force those businesses that are robbing us to make an exception.

      1. Fair points, but very frustrating to read.

        Use the return bar once in a while.

  3. Preventing bullying is bullying.

    1. “Preventing bullying is bullying.”

      As is preventing bullies from bullying other bullies who are bullying yet other bullies from…. etc., etc., Bullying is real. It starts in the second or third grade, and never goes away. It’s literally the individual’s first introduction to intolerance and… despotism? (Okay, “despotism” might be a bit harsh)

      1. The Power vs Value battle.

  4. “When leaders overstep their authority, that is how we break this country, and if government starts acting unconstitutionally, even if it’s doing something that we like, that’s a dangerous path to walk down,” she said. “It is not conservative to grow government and to tell businesses what to do and how to treat their employees.”

    Right on, sister, preach it!

    1. Isn’t this the broad who went against the will of the voters on legal marijuana in South Dakota? Am I thinking of someone else?

      Seems she is talking out of both sides of her ass.

      1. She was indeed*, but her argument was steeped in SD constitutional law and was upheld by a judge. Her (by proxy) argument was it was a revision not an amendment; and I don’t know enough about SD law to make a judgement on that argument.

        *1 reason why I’d rather DeSantis win GOP nom – though he isn’t great on weed either. But I’ll still vote Libertarian most likely anyway.

        1. I don’t know. I think it’s about time we had a president that I’d like to fuck.

          1. You’ll have ms Harris soon

            1. To each their own I guess.

              She seems like a power top though, so she’ll be the one doing the fucking.

      2. reason will sacrifice the right to weed to preserve the right of corporations to collaborate with the government against the rights of individuals. Liberationist collectivism uber alles. Johnathan E should have taken the dive. Energy owned him and property must do what it is told.

        1. Right?!?!? They just don’t prioritize.

          Libertarian-minded Conservatives: “Holy shit, look what’s happening to our civil liberties because of COVID Derangement Syndrome!”

          Reason Libertarians: “Muh Weed!”

  5. Literally the worst robbie article ever.
    Right after I make a “to be sure” joke at his expense in the round up he puts up a straight forward article with no caveats… Screw you robbie!

    1. The Hair will not tolerate such insolence.

    2. I know, right.
      Where the hell is our “to be sure”, Robby!

  6. “It is not conservative to grow government and to tell businesses what to do.”

    except when it comes to immigration and trade of course.

    1. Don’t forget abortion and sending junior off to fight in some bullshit war. Conservatives are good for that too.

      1. Nothing says “libertarian” than killing some kids.
        There’s two people involved in every abortion, but the progs only care about the bodily integrity of the one that can vote.

  7. …South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) is opposing the ban on private vaccine passports on grounds that the government does not and should not have the right to bully businesses.

    South Dakota doesn’t have public accommodation laws? It doesn’t have labor protections? It must be a libertarian paradise.

    1. None at all. It’s vast landscape of anarcho-capitalist freedom. There aren’t even any building codes.

  8. I have no problem with Noem’s policies. But if my choice comes down to a Democrat who wants the things all Democrats want, or a Republican that is passing a law saying it’s illegal to doxx Anne Frank (admittedly eviscerating freedom of association), I’ll go with option B.

    1. There are quite nearly a billion prohibitions on what an employer can consider about you, or what they can make you do as a condition for employment. They cannot consider your race, religion, political views (in some states), sex, preexisting disability or ethnicity. They cannot condition your employment on sexual favors or other monetary inducements. In that context, banning employers from considering your medical history (including vax status) seems very weak tea.

      I get that vaccination status is the big news story right now, but it strikes me as odd that Mr Soave doesn’t even MENTION how his ideal libertarian philosophy would mean removing laws like the Civil Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities Acts. But if he is unwilling to at least pay lip service to those consequences, I am left thinking that he is merely using libertarian reasoning to cover for a policy preference he was already supporting (vax mandates for all).

      1. I think you nailed it there!

      2. his ideal libertarian philosophy would mean removing laws like the Civil Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities Acts

        I don’t know if that’s true. I am projecting here, but it seems like using government to deter discrimination on the grounds of immutable characteristics is probably still ok – even desirable – in order to protect equal opportunity for all.

        Allowing discrimination on the grounds of choices (e.g. – Drug use, vaccination status, body art, etc.) is decidedly different. No one is born with tattoos or as a habitual heroin user, and there is no obligation to protect people from the consequences of their own choices. One of those consequences might be the inability to find gainful employment.

        1. Is gender [as it is now fashionable to construe] an immutable characteristic?

          1. word meanings are so ‘fluid’ these days…

          2. Is gender [as it is now fashionable to construe] an immutable characteristic?

            Biological sex certainly is.

        2. “I am projecting here, but it seems like using government to deter discrimination on the grounds of immutable characteristics is probably still ok – even desirable – in order to protect equal opportunity for all.”

          This is a fair point to make. It isn’t libertarian, but it is a fair point to make. That Mr Soave didn’t care to even approach the issue and make this distinction is telling to me.

  9. Rico, you can’t expect invites, okay, you’re probably sick of hearing that. But, damn, nobody of import inside the Beltway gives a shit about the grubby proles in the flyover states. The vast majority of urban dwellers and coastal dwellers are the same. Noem making a principled stand isn’t news to these folks, because she’s a white nationalist, or white nationalist-adjacent, in their minds. Hellz, man, there are photos of her, riding a horse, carrying the US flag. Open and shut, throw away the key. /s

    1. And at a super-spreader event, no less! The nerve!

  10. A conservative who believes in libertarian principles.

    How quaint.

    1. She doesn’t like the pot.

      1. She doesn’t like the pot.

        No, she certainly does not. However, only recreational was blocked. That only passed by something like 52/48 while medical was a damn landslide at something like 63/37.

        I’ll take the incrementalism of it and when the next ballot initiative comes, the vote will likely be more lopsided in favor and there will be the precedent of the medical segment to build off of.

    2. More than you seemingly do. Still waiting for that first criticism of the left you claim to always be making.

    3. Not as rare a beast as a libertarian lefty.
      Sure there’s a few like Crow, Greenwald and Taibbi, but most of them are masquerading authoritarian fucks like you.

    4. The next time sarcasmic insists he doesn’t act like a progressive water-boy, point him to this post.

  11. >>”I don’t have the authority as governor to tell them what to do,”

    “but fuck y’all on my acing your pro-weed vote. suck it.”

    1. Didn’t she cave to the ncaa about transgender policy too?

    2. Yes, we should only support people who we agree with on 104% of policies!

      OR… We could appreciate each time that libertarian principles are voiced, even if the messenger is imperfect.

  12. Noem on overriding the freedumbs of associizzles.


    Noem pushes to bar ‘critical race theory’ from universities

    SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) — South Dakota’s public universities shouldn’t be teaching certain concepts of race and racism, Gov. Kristi Noem said Tuesday, in line with a nationwide GOP movement to keep critical race theory out of classrooms.

    In a letter to the Board of Regents that oversees the state’s six public universities, the Republican governor targeted critical race theory and the Pulitzer Prize-winning “1619 Project,” describing them as misleading “students into believing the country is evil or was founded upon evil.”

    Noem’s letter — released on the anniversary of George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis — comes amid a national reckoning on the influence of race and racism on policing and other realms of American life.

    1. I mean, as governor she might have some say in what the states department of education does.

      1. No. Wrong. Any attempt to interfere is literal Hitlerness.

        1. My bad, I’ll see myself to the re-education center.

      2. Note that Soave also was saying DeSantis ought to be criticized for banning mask and vax mandates in public schools.

  13. “I didn’t trample on the rights of our people, and I’m not going to start now.”
    Where was this reasoning when she effectively vetoed the voter passed marijuana legalization earlier this year?

    1. Amazing how she left that out isn’t it?

      1. But think of all the cop jobs she saved.

    2. She is still and R and has to be a dick sometimes.

      1. She has the authority to be on mine

    3. She didn’t trample those rights, she just continued to step on them like everyone else.

  14. Opinion on Kristi Noem:

    South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem Is a Deadlier, More Delusional Alternative to Trump

    The governor’s science denialism and Covid lies at CPAC far exceeded those of the former president.

    outh Dakota has suffered more than the vast majority of states since the coronavirus pandemic hit. Though it’s one of the least populous states in the nation, its Covid-19 per capita death rate is the eighth highest in the nation. Its per capita case rate is even worse: number two in the United States, after neighboring North Dakota.

    Only someone who is deliberately ignorant, or ghoulishly dishonest, would suggest that South Dakota is a pandemic success story.

    1. That’s the same kind of shit they’re saying about Sweden. And both places are trending 0 deaths per day last time I checked.

    2. I’m surprised anyone is left alive South Dakota, frankly. If only they had followed New York’s lead.

      1. We’re all dead, actually. If only we had a different Governor! Hey, I heard the one from New York recently became available…

    3. Nice they fail to mention that North Dakota had much stricter policies and pretty much the same outcome.

      Any polity that resisted the urge to “do something” because it’s something should be considered a success story.

      1. They also talk as if NY and CA and the rest of the country isn’t going to get hit again. We have a long way to go before the end, and having more of your ‘cases’ behind you than in front of you is a good place to be going into flu season.

        Or what used to be flu season.

        1. CA is already getting hit again

        2. It looks like Florida may be on the downslope finally.

    4. 8th? If she was wrong, South Dakota would be first. Therefore, you have to look for a different reason.

      Consider that most of the state is rural, without a sophisticated health network in every other town.

      Noem could be right on everything but still get a less glowing result because a significant portion of the state doesn’t live within 15 minutes of a tier-1 medical center.

      Sweden did many things right, but had some issues with most of their elderly living in areas far from advanced medical care.

  15. Here’s what the cool boomers over at Rolling Stone are saying:

    The Covid Queen of South Dakota
    Gov. Kristi Noem’s state has been ravaged by her Trumpian response to the pandemic — but that hasn’t paused her national ambitions

    1. You could see how ravaged it was by all the people at sturgis.

      1. And by the 2.8% unemployment rate!

    2. Gov. Kristi Noem’s state has been ravaged by her Trumpian response to the pandemic

      She shut down air travel, held daily Covid briefings and fast-tracked some vaccines?

  16. Watch out, Kristi Noem might be under your bed, gon’ git yer childrens in the night.

    Noem takes pledge to restore ‘patriotic education’ in schools

    South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) announced this week that she signed a pledge seeking to restore “patriotic education” while also attacking critical race theory at a time Republicans across the country have pushed legislation to ban teachings of the concept in schools.

  17. https://twitter.com/AstorAaron/status/1430597348707733510

    Institutions that mandate vaccinations should count as “immunized” people who can prove previous infection. A new study from Israel shows natural infection confers more robust immunity against Delta than vaccine-induced immunity. This is a good thing!

      1. I’m curious to see the studies that will come out next year to see if immunity from vaccinated + breakthrough infection is on par with immunity from unvaccinated infection. My *guess* is that it’ll be nearly as good, especially if the breakthrough infection was symptomatic.

    1. It’s ironic that the ‘do it for society’ people are refusing to do the only thing that actually helps — getting the virus and getting over it without passing it to anybody else.

      1. Advocating that someone deliberately get sick as “medical advice” or even public health advice would be just a tad unethical.

        1. There’s no “deliberate” involved. It’s accepting the benefits of letting nature take its course by living your life normally. Pre-COVID we understood that germophobes had more to fear from normal illnesses, but too many have gotten neurotic after the doom and gloom over the past 18 months and taken up that lifestyle themselves.

          Vaccines exist for those that need them, but their protection is transient; COVID doesn’t fade into the background until enough of us have been exposed. This was understood in February 2020, yet now it’s denied.

          The people who refuse to expose themselves to any COVID risk are keeping that risk elevated for longer than it needs to be. They are the problem as far as public health is concerned, and as far as liberty is concerned.

        2. Do you think it was unethical for parents to have their kids play with chicken pox kids back in the day?

    2. How about we just stop pretending covid is a real medical threat, and acknowledge that it’s an entirely political tool used to seize totalitarian power?
      Maybe don’t separate the population into the obedient and the unclean, and stop acting like hysterical nazi cowards?

  18. Those wascally Republicans (Trump especially) just want to centrally contwol everweefing!

    The GOP is mounting a dangerous new rebellion against federal authority

    Jun 30, 2021 — While the details are still coming into focus, that’s essentially what is happening in South Dakota: Republican Gov. Kristi Noem, who has her …

    Bofe sides!!!

    1. new rebellion against federal authority
      It’s a good thing.

    2. “a dangerous new rebellion against federal authority”

      In before DOL calls everyone traitors. White Mike must be hysterical right now. Nothing worse than people rebelling against authority.

  19. Another potential presidential candidate for the hawt party.

    1. The “more delusional than Trump” party!!1!!

      1. The hawt party also includes Tulsi Gabbard and Nikki Haley.

        1. for once can we have a three-way ticket?

          1. The “debate” will be pay-per-view.

            1. I look forward to the oil wrestling segment.

  20. Since forever, any human’s support for abstract freedoms vanishes as soon as other people start behaving “badly”. And since most people have values based on personal biases and doctrines, just about all behavior can be judged as bad.

  21. She’s a 1,000% wrong. First she said if you are trained for a specific job and they mandate it she won’t protect your right to say no; instead she said just quit your job and go get the same or better job elsewhere (take the kids out of school, sell the house etc. etc) where there is no mandate. That’s so stupid it doesn’t need a response.

    1. Employment is a association, generally defined by contract. I have concerns with government pressuring private entities into making decisions like vaccine mandates, but unless there is something prohibitive in the contract of course the employer can request vaccination from the employee. Absent government, people would primarily get vaccines under 3 conditions: 1) They want the vaccine independently, (2) their medical insurer offers reduced premiums with vaccination, (3) they wish to associate with entities that require certain vaccinations, such as employers. With regard to point 2, the insurer would be incentivized to balance premium increases with potential loss of business should they be unreasonable. With regard to point 3, entities would also be under incentive to be reasonable since they would also be alienating friends, family, customers, etc. Point 2 can satisfy point 3 – many businesses would probably just ask for proof of an accepted medical insurance, and the insurer would vet the employee for the employer. Proof of insurance would also show that the employee is capable of covering their liabilities. Businesses requiring that their employees be acceptably insured would be more common than them requiring various vaccinations and such directly.

    2. Don’t quit your job, make them fire you. Make them put in writing why they are firing you.

      Then go get a better job.

      1. Unless you’re hired under a union contract, you can be fired for no reason. You’re just fired.
        The employer need not give you a reason, but you’ll likely get “I can’t afford you on the payroll” or “i need an employee with a different skill set.

  22. ”I don’t have the authority as governor to tell them what to do,”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the state legislature passes a law, SHE would not in fact be the one telling them (businesses) what to do.

  23. It isn’t liberal either. It’s progressive – except doing pointless shit isn’t progress.

    1. Most of what the Progressives want isn’t progress. It’s taking humanity back at least several centuries. Several millennia if they can.

  24. I would believe Robby’s concern for libertarian values much more if he hadn’t already convinced me that he just wants people to mandate vaccines and masks.

    https://reason.com/2021/08/13/broward-florida-teachers-died-covid-19-mask-mandate-unvaccinated-desantis/

    “That’s the aspect of this story for which DeSantis deserves criticism: His COVID-19 declarations get in the way of individual public schools or districts requiring teachers to get vaccinated as a condition of employment.”

    I am happy to let businesses choose, assuming they are not being pressured by CDC “opinions” and other rhetoric. But when Robby is also criticizing the CEO of a state (its Governor) for opting NOT to mandate vaccines for his employees, it leads me to think that Robby is just pulling the libertarian card out of convenience, because it allows for vaccine mandates- a requirement he prefers.

  25. Nobody who agrees with this article has any room to bitch about, oh, say, Harvey weinstein and what he required actresses to do for him ever again.

    What else should “private” companies require of their employees?
    “Fuck the boss, or you’re fired” is the exact same as “get the jab, or you’re fired”.

    1. At the least, if you are an author making this argument with about how the government ought to stay out of these employment decisions, you have to at least *acknowledge* that taken to its extreme, this libertarian philosophy would not only legalize the Casting Couch, but also eliminate the Civil Rights and Americans with Disabilities Acts.

      Consider this: As far as I can tell, the same principles and justifications for allowing business to force you to vaccinate as a condition for employment are the same as the principles and justifications that allow a business to require a woman to be on birth control. After all, being pregnant is a distraction at work, makes you lest effective at several duties and will inevitably lead to you not being able to work several weeks at the end of a 9 month term.

      As I said above, I get that Robby is interested in litigating the current debate, but you cannot just ignore the very obvious consequences of this reasoning unless you are just very sloppy.

      (All that said, I do think companies should be allowed to condition their employment on WHATEVER they deem appropriate. They should just be required to put it in writing, and live with the consequences of that written declaration.)

  26. This might be the proper response in isolation. Now, consider the context. You have a federal government that is directly saying that they want companies to institute vaccine mandates. With all of their power to punish and bestow largesse implicit. Robby has been notably silent on federal demands.

  27. Yeah I’m what people used to call libertarian. I know the definition of the word has changed but I’ll beg your indulgence for the purpose of discussion. Noem is probably right as a matter of law but dead wrong as to liberty. I’m cool with private companies dictating the terms of employment and employees bargaining otherwise. But it’s pretty baffling to see self described libertarians celebrating employers forcing employees to inject experimental drugs into their bodies. I’m cool with a rule of law not of men. But if one governor errs on the side of individual liberty while another errs on the side of private tyranny I’ll take liberty every time. Oh and fuck you Robby and the anti liberty rag you rode in on.

    1. So you are a libertarian who wants to trample on the private property rights of businesses, let alone their association rights. Huh.

      1. That’s not what he said, and you’re the last person on earth who should be pretending they give a shit about people’s rights.

        1. That’s not what he said

          It sort of is though… When GG says “if one governor errs on the side of individual liberty” he’s admitting it’s an error to limit the rights of employers to set terms of employment. He’s just saying that he finds that error preferable to the error of “private tyranny”.

          Which is a bit odd given that one is authoritarian action by the state and the other is not, but that’s (apparently) the position he took.

  28. Stop accusing conservatives who want to regulate businesses (in the interests of the Right’s agenda) of not being conservative. They are bring perfectly conservative. They are not being *libertarian* which is something quite different. “The property and contract rights of businesses are absoluute” is simply not what conservatism is or ever has been about.

  29. States issue business licenses so regardless how you feel about that they do have some say in what takes place in those businesses.

  30. Hey faggots, do the libertarian case for concentration camps.
    Or just keep ignoring it like the controlled opposition totalitarian pussies you are.

    https://twitter.com/AnnastaciaMP/status/1430685839994982400?t=ivtTvWmWVzsyYkUhCl1Eyg&s=19

    BREAKING: A dedicated regional quarantine facility will be built at Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba. As we contend with the dangerous Delta variant, we need fit-for-purpose quarantine facilities. #covid19

    That’s why we’ve taken decisive action to build this new 1000-bed, dedicated facility under a joint agreement between the Palaszczuk Government and the landowner @Wagner_Corp. Wagner Corporation expects the first stage of the facility to be delivered for use by the end of 2021.

    1. Cripes, Australia is rapidly becoming a bad 80’s dystopia movie.

    2. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1430512380451110915?t=t6jjuzzJPqCFZLTow2fcHg&s=19

      Sydney, Australia now: [link]

      These severe restrictions on life are not just symbols. They are aggressively enforced with police officers.

  31. “on grounds that the government does not and should not have the right to bully businesses”

    This totally holds for a privately-held company, but when we get to large, publicly-traded corporations, at what point do they stop being businesses and start being governments?

    Amazon and Microsoft seen to have more in common with a dictatorial city-state than with Joe’s Plumbing in Canton, Ohio. Looking at their structures, policies (laws), economies, etc. their management seems to be basically governments.
    Shouldn’t we be holding them to the same libertarian standards we would hold a city council to? Sure people can quit, but you can always move to a different city or state too. We don’t excuse councils or state legislatures because of that.

    If we shouldn’t view them as nascent governments, why not?
    Real question BTW. I’m mulling this idea over but I’m not married to it.

  32. https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1430504972299481099?t=pohGZu53Okt9r4UR5gIrvQ&s=19

    “When you ask Bayer, BMW, and Volkswagen what they were doing from 1933-1945…”

  33. I look forward to the first person who catches the flu at work or some business that is requiring the covid vaccine but nothing else, and sues the fuck out of them for “fostering an unsafe environment” or whatever.

  34. I am confuse, is Reason for individual liberties, corporate liberties or Democrat liberties? I seem to see a real tilt to corporate and Dem liberties only.

  35. The correct answer. Wish such responses were not so rare.

  36. Either jeff or sarc (can’t tell ’em apart) was here just a couple of days ago assuring us that businesses requiring vaxx are not coercing anyone, ignoring, as they both commonly do, the actual facts involved.

  37. conversely, bake the fucking cake, and wax my balls while you’re at it, bigot.

  38. And this is exactly why freedom LOSES

  39. Yes, Republicans aren’t perfect but compared to Democrats they appear to be pretty close 🙂

  40. I am 100% anti-vax – for me. For you, stick whatever you want in. But Kristi Noem is right: it is not the job of the state to ban or mandate employers to go one way or the other. That’s the job of the marketplace. And natural selection, if as has been hinted at, these “vaccines” are really deadly, as it kills off a business’s workforce, those unvaxxed and alive will be able to command much higher wages. A win for us.

  41. The state that had the highest percent of votes for Jo Jorgensen in 2020 was South Dakota (2.63%j. As a result I suspect the Republicans in SD have a slightly stronger streak of libertarianism than average. Not that Kristi Noem doesn’t have faults – but better than average. Perhaps the religion she grew up with tends to skew her thinking toward laws against “obvious” evils (e.g. marijuana,) but her background in ranching tends to skew toward non-authoritarianism. As a businesswoman she has had, ahem, past beefs with government.

    When the wife and I retired and moved from Oregon to the Black Hills area two years ago I did not pay attention to who was governor. Politicians come and go. When the pandemic started she did frequent press meetings like many governors, but early on she warned that there was no known way to eradicate the virus, so the policy analogy was: treat it like a marathon, not a sprint. Lockdowns and masks and such were not viable as long term solutions under such assumptions since all they would do is slow the inevitable. But even without those policy considerations she said she felt it was up to individuals to make the choice.

  42. Kristi Noem’s argument is correct from an idealistic libertarian standpoint: Government should not be regulating the voluntary association between businesses and employees. I agree with that principle she articulated well. The issue with this argument, when taken to an ideological extreme with no exceptions, is that it isn’t grounded in the reality that the largest corporations in the United States are now identical to Imperial Japan’s public/private partnership “Zaibatsu” economic model. Our largest businesses are now in fact an arm of the government. Look no further than the bailouts of Bank of America and their extreme influence with lobbying power over the US government. Free market forces that would normally put a terrible bank like BOA out of business, like the inability to compete, aren’t allowed to work because of a coerced and continuous taxpayer cash infusion. The reality is that we the taxpayers, unfortunately, are indirect and unwitting stakeholders with no representation over these businesses we’ve been forced to bail out. The same applies to United airlines. Think about every aspect of their business model: they operate in taxpayer funded airports. They enforce CDC “guidelines” and federal regulations on mask wearing. They remove passengers with health conditions whom they deem “unruly” for not wearing a mask, with no exceptions, despite some having health conditions like COPD or asthma. They even go as far as to mandate employees, a minority of whom are at an elevated risk of anaphylaxis due to an allergy to a particular ingredient in some of the vaccines, no exception, despite these same airlines corruptly lobbying for and receiving funds and a competitive edge from us via the Federal government. Think about it: the same employees they’re robbing with the federal government, they’re also imposing onerous mandates upon. That is not a free market situation.

    The most realistic solution to this problem, that I believe will satisfy both populists on the Right, and libertarians like myself, is to bar businesses that have stolen our money via the Federal without our consent from mandating vaccination. Any business that does not take our money by force, (an obvious violation of the Non-Aggression Principle), can continue to operate, as they should, according it is own discretion. Obviously, no libertarian wants a man with a gun to force a business to hire an employee, and we are right to be skeptical of that intrusion into private sector. As at that point, any citizen will have the ability to compete in a free market fashion with these businesses who are currently monopolistically able to quash competition due to the subsidies we given them. Anyone who considers themselves a free-market conservative or libertarian should think twice when allowing taxpayer subsidized corporate monopolies to dictate what customer may or may not do. They ceded their right to be a “private business” when they lobbied the government to steal our money via taxation. To be clear: if United didn’t take our money at the point of the gun through the federal government, then I would be fine with them mandating their employment contract as they wish. The free market would do its magic, and they would likely go out of business in short order as employees would jump ship to airlines that didn’t demand such onerous requirements in order to work for them.

    1. Good points, well reasoned.

      The government-business partnership goes back to at least the War on Drugs where business implemented drug testing.

      And as usual, REASON is on the side of business being a front for state repression.

  43. All of this anti-vax/mask crap is hilarious. I’m hoping that those #CluelessConservatives & the #LyingLibertarians continue this fight right up to their deaths. No one will care if you dolts die except for those party leaders who will be crying about the rampant reduction of voters within their groups.
    The ONLY sad thing about these deplorables’ behavior is the “Long Haul Covid Syndrome” & multi-system failure that their kids are & will continue to experience. We can thank God that the overwhelming majority of dead & disabled kids are the children of republican/libertarian parents who believe Covid is nothing but bullshit.
    What’s confusing is why these vaccinated leaders are doing everything possible to encourage the deaths of their onw supporters. Did they forget that #WEaretheGOVERNMENT?

  44. It’s reasonable for restaurants to require employees to be vaccinated and customers to be fully clothed. They cannot (or should not) deny service to customers because “they could transmit disease since they look dirty or homeless”.

    Vaccine mandates create second class citizens out of law abiding people. It’s precursor to precrime enforcement. Do you give the government or companies the right to characterize you a disease carrier? A potential criminal? If contact tracing placed me in a superspreader event, they could try to limit my movement.

  45. Kristi Noem for president! Imagine a clear thinker in the White House.

    Never happen.

  46. I would WALK from my home in South Florida to South Dakota to spend a night with Governor Noem (I’m male). If Mr. Noem wanted to be in bed with us, that’d be OK, for what I could do at Age 76. I’d just want to spend a night with such a brilliant, beautiful lady.

  47. my personal health history isn’t the business of corporations, either.

  48. As noted in earlier posts, there is no coercion on employers to require vaccination of employees coming from the highest authority in the state – the governor. Ergo everyone claiming some sort of implicit government-business collusion exists is operating under a false assumption. At this point the Feds have no threat and therefore no say in the matter for the typical South Dakota employer.

    For the record, there aren’t that many large nation-wide companies headquartered in South Dakota. Among the largest employers are probably the medical services of Sanford and Monument Health. Only Sanford now requires its employees to be vaccinated – so far Monument has not (and demonstrations against such mandates have occurred outside Monument Health buildings.) Otherwise there doesn’t seem to be any movement by employers in South Dakota to require vaccinations of their employees. The unemployment rate in SD is among the lowest in the country and employers are short of workers so would be unlikely to demand any such thing of employees even if they were so inclined. Most employers are not so inclined and would resist any such political pressure IMHO.

  49. Government tells businesses what to do in thousands of areas such as health codes, safety, occupancy codes, licensing, civil rights violations, OSHA, and on and on. Manty Libertarians grudglingly accept the utility of at least some of these regulations.

    But keeping businesses from discriminating people who’d like to exercise their bodily autonomy is one violation of libertarian principles too far, the one libertarians have to take a stand on?

  50. I haven’t seen the following addressed in any of the comments: the libertarian government/business system only works when businesses are accountable for their actions via lawsuits. Between the PREP Act and the guidance of at least one federal agency (I forget which), employers can’t be sued for adverse effects of vaccines when they mandate them (just as the manufacturers can’t be held liable). Therefore, federal law has already tipped the power in favor of employers in a way that makes libertarian governance impossible. The only ways to correct the imbalance are for the federal law to change (not gonna happen in this administration) or for state and local governments to enact new legislation to protect the employees – or AT LEAST require employers to waive their immunity for any vaccines that they mandate or incentivize with negative reinforcements.

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